#Jigsaw coding blocks

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

misty canyon
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object blocks couldnt be seperate blocks btw because youd need a unique block for literally every thing in the game that would be identifiable as an object block which everything should be

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especially if you have player behavior like touches as an event signal

harsh dust
misty canyon
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these are seperate blocks that would actually be useful

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idk what you mean

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event signals and object identification dont exist

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despite being core parts of how games are made

harsh dust
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No, you're introducing a system that could be used with each other and it's not necessary

misty canyon
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how do you detect when a dagger backstabs

harsh dust
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Separate blocks are small and aren't connected to any system

misty canyon
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how do you detect when wings flap

harsh dust
harsh dust
misty canyon
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what would that block be

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would you need a block for every single interaction

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or can they be merged into one event signal that changes its focus based on whats inputted

harsh dust
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Custom weapon creator maybe. Idk, but it would add less blocks and make more sense

misty canyon
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this system is a custom weapon creator pretty much

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and its all in the world as blocks

harsh dust
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Well just make one block out of it then 💔

misty canyon
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i dont like suggestions that try to add a new menu

misty canyon
harsh dust
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But a whole new system for one purpose is fine?

misty canyon
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whats that one purpose

harsh dust
harsh dust
void wigeon
harsh dust
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Okay, I'm done talking. Have a good day but I don't want to talk with you anymore

misty canyon
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again object and event signal blocks work with wiring

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theyre wiring blocks

verbal lance
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So you want blocks that are

If "team X" kills "x" bugs switch to "team Y"

void wigeon
misty canyon
verbal lance
void wigeon
misty canyon
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you can read more about it before but the tl;dr is that 4 new types of wiring blocks would be introduced, being object blocks, event signals, behavior change blocks, and conditionals

image.png
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object blocks specify an object, whether that be a team, player, gadget, or mob

harsh dust
void wigeon
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I thought you said you were leaving

verbal lance
harsh dust
misty canyon
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i've replied to specific portions before to direct people

harsh dust
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I can talk to other people

void wigeon
harsh dust
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👍

misty canyon
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you can start reading from here
#1472407894174466119 message

misty canyon
verbal lance
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@harsh dust brother I was joking

harsh dust
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Yep

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I'm not mad at you or anything for joking

misty canyon
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well tbf that was just the player dies part which i also didnt optimize the first time around

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but having objects and actions those objects can do being sectioned off into blocks that you can then connect and get pulses from would allow for more cleaner gameplay thats not reliant on pressing buttons everywhere

verbal lance
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I thought this was a silly wiring thing and now I'm here

misty canyon
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because the only way you can trigger game logic is with direct input from buttons or other wiring instances

misty canyon
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like this is what yeeps needs the most to further community worlds

misty canyon
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but you cant detect when things happen if they arent directly connected to wiring elements despite such logic existing internally for gamemodes

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theyve done some niche variations on it like the mob kill identifier and recently the new token transmitter blocks but if these were made into a fully customizable system the gates would be opened

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from there being able to change how objects behave with this system would let you do even more with what already exists and configure objects to your liking

harsh dust
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Ok now I'm back to talking shortly

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No arguing though

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I think it's people's fault that CWs don't have engaging gadgets

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I totally agree

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But I have made plenty of cool and unique "custom weapons" with what the game already has to offer

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It's not perfect but I don't think it's too limited

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Or you could use base gadgets in interesting ways

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That has a lot more potential

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I have done that, too

misty canyon
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the thing is that people want to make new experiences in yeeps instead of experiences using what yeeps has, with the limitations being what yeeps has in the first place

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the shocking disconnect is the fact that yeeps does track and identify events like dagger backstabs but cw creators dont get access to that despite being able to do way more logic and puzzles with that

misty canyon
harsh dust
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I'm saying that if people try to make good community worlds and not slop to get money there are plenty of ways to create custom weapons. Yes a dedicated block would be more useful, and I have no issues with that

harsh dust
misty canyon
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that work with wiring

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like you can just attach an event signal to a wire to open a door

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thats why having a new jigsaw connection system is flawed because it'd be cool to just have puzzles dedicated to specific gadget actions like loading a harpoon into a harpoon gun

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imagine if you could tie those into controlling a game inside of yeeps

harsh dust
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Well, that's where we disagree. I think using one or a few blocks that aren't a whole new elaborate system is fine. For example, the map changer blocks. You can do anything with them, even without wiring

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And then creativity can connect it to wiring

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If you want a shotgun to open a door, you can actually already do that but with any gun. Just put a bomb on a separate wall next to the door

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It can be replaced with a simple mechanism, too

misty canyon
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rather limited and not applicable to most objects

harsh dust
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So you just create another system for other uses

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That was just an example for shotguns

misty canyon
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back to what i mentioned before how do you detect dagger backstabs

harsh dust
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What would you use that for exactly?

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I don't think we need infinite levels of customization

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But

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I could see like multiplying them maybe

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Just an item detector

teal marlin
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viver

hot ember
misty canyon
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fun gus: heres a shortcut to when a new updated format is made! (it also likely solves any problems you have with the initial concept)

image0-11.jpg
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Haha thank you fun gus

mortal magnet
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the making of ordered code door

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is so sigma

sharp fern
stone harness
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way better than the wiring fr

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i would love this to be a thing

harsh dust
stone harness
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what

harsh dust
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The only thing that this can do that wiring can't is making custom weapons

misty canyon
harsh dust
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Which is pretty cool

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But still

stone harness
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also

stone harness
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you have NO idea how much it would minimize

harsh dust
harsh dust
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And it definitely would

stone harness
harsh dust
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You just have to be creative and that is more fun + it minimizes blocks almost to how much this would

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I do see why people want it though

misty canyon
stone harness
misty canyon
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what this requests are ways to identify specific objects, events those objects can do and change the behavior of those objects

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realistically logic complexity will always exist and making blocks that compress existing logic or behavioral systems would make the individual blocks far nicher and redundant as mentioned prior

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this just gives creators the means to impact their games more without direct interaction with wiring elements

misty canyon
drifting blaze
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alr yall, maybe blocks arent the best solution for this

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maybe just make it a gui

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like my version of this idea

misty canyon
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the blocks are fine and if they wanted to increase complexity limits the issue is minimal hardware handling

drifting blaze
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With this version 90% of the world would be jigsaws

misty canyon
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i think a good rule of thumb is that you should be able to copy the blocks in the map itself to have a 1:1 recreation of how that map functions

drifting blaze
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... copy the scripts in the world copy

misty canyon
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theyre just new wiring options that dont exist

misty canyon
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you can do a lot with the current system if you work with it and this would enable more by interacting with wiring as players play the game rather than interact with wiring blocks

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which is a big limitation of yeeps community worlds as it stands now

drifting blaze
misty canyon
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the issue is that its not being stored as an object on the map but a weird inbetween

misty canyon
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which a lot of maps rely on for actual game progression because theres no other way to detect events that happen in the game

drifting blaze
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yeepcode WOULD have fire event and recieve event blocks but I suck at blocks so I never drew em

misty canyon
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thats what this suggestion wanted to get across but formatted in the sense of a new system

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but the concepts offered were something that yeeps really could benefit from

misty canyon
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tech webs and objects are designed to be individual components that are placed on the map

gusty quail
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Just do 3D scratch blocks and slap them all to the game 🧠

misty canyon
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even if you went with the original concept here with a new jigsaw connection system at least its on the map itself

misty canyon
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object referral isnt really possible in scratch unless you attach specific trigger signals to each and every behavior you want to do

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which is what transmitters do actually

gusty quail
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I've actually said that as a joke but good points

misty canyon
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if you want to activate a transmitter you need a button or interactable in the first place

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which is fine for showcase machines or the plethora of doors designed to be opened with a press built into the game

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but for creating actual games theres a lot of tedium to work wiring into it directly which leaves any unique complex minigame interaction shallow or heavily reliant on the hardcoded functions of existing minigames

unreal light
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cool

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i like

iron apex
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Wait
I see a problem with this image

image-1.png
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This wouldnt work because wiring is server sided

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The player dies from snail could be used to use item cannons witch could be used to make ghost blocks

cloud plover
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not my image
not my problem

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the system isent ment to be wireing but some kid saw two people dissagree because "its a new system" and they "fixed" it

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if you dont like a new system then too bad so sad dont use the block

iron apex
cloud plover
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its some other random kid, not you

iron apex
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Your thing also worse ngl imo

cloud plover
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i was gonna say your chill but never mind gang

misty canyon
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maybe a specific identifier can be made so that it only adds based on the player that triggered it?

iron apex
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It works with wires right

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Then i can use wiring inputs right

misty canyon
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the wires could transmit data associated with the entire circuit on top of the boolean wires already transmit

misty canyon
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which is the biggest issue wiring has

iron apex
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I mean like

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Using dispensers

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Or item cannons

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How would that work

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Would it desync?

misty canyon
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i dont know how item cannons work and if this system would interfere and cause issues with those blocks then those should probably be fixed themselves

iron apex
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They fundamentally cant if i read correctly

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What if we use this for things like variables?

misty canyon
iron apex
misty canyon
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like why doesnt the item cannon work with this setup

iron apex
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What a do know is they can place pillows

misty canyon
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like what sets this apart from a transmitter activating an item cannon

iron apex
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Client sided pillows

misty canyon
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the event signals would be sent globally because its a boolean being sent though to the block

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its just that alongside the boolean the wiring pulse sends out it also ties together data like the object that originally activated it to use elsewhere

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like altering that object's token count

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for wiring it sends a pulse like a transmitter

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but it then interacts with behavior change blocks

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a similar system would exist for clarifying event signals with conditionals

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ideally the game checks every time an action is taken like a shotgun fires and then checks adjacent blocks to make sure what its clarifying

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if it fits all the conditions then it sends the pulse

iron apex
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It should be changed to add a new type of wire then
Use that conditional port for everything

misty canyon
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like it could be as simple as this

165865D4-3A59-4365-A6AC-427E8DB37E28.png
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and ideally thats what the first iteration of this would do

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just be object and event signals because thats arguably the biggest thing

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then from there using the same infrastructure and object oriented system that would have to be made to support identifying objects and the actions they take

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then you can have behavior change blocks

misty canyon
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it just waits for something to shoot and then checks if its a shotgun

iron apex
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I see

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I thought it was client sided mb

misty canyon
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because its checking adjacent blocks to verify it can then store that data and send it over

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it could also be "baked" into the map making the circuit hardcoded to be a shotgun shoots to be more optimized

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but for simple tests in creative mode thats how it'd work

misty canyon
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its just able to interact with that

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the token transmitter blocks already do this, theyre just very limited

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they just check if the player kills a mob and gives them tokens

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which with this system would be done through objects (players and mob), event signals (killing), and behavior changes (giving tokens)

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its just essentially asking for the keys to the castle to make ANY event be detectable and anything be identified which is a bit complicated but not anything in the abstract yeeps hasnt already done

iron apex
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I see

misty canyon
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item dispensers can store block/gadget data, and the mob kill identifier/token transmitters already check for an event that occurs to send a pulse or give tokens

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so this turns those into wiring components

misty canyon
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this system accomplishes everything you wanted to do while fitting better into the yeeps wiring ecosystem

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while also being simpler to interface with and understand

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like its the natural evolution of the concept you put forward

cloud plover
night bison
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Those JIGSAWS are FALLING INTO PLACE. 🥹

harsh dust
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I hope the people who ✨ reacted this at least actually wire stuff

misty canyon
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about the custom gamemode sign: it's a cool addition but doesnt solve this issue since it cant detect any events outside of players dying, it just serves as a simple blank slate to START making new gamemodes
this is generally fine and good for the game but we still need blocks capable of detecting game events without being directly connected to associated wiring inputs (existing ones are fine and are easier to understand, but for gamemodes that want to diverge from what yeeps directly designs maps to have you need More)

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also since fun gus got pushed up a bit lets bring that boy back in

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fun gus: heres a shortcut to when a new updated simplified system is made! (it also likely solves any problems you have with the initial concept, like now being a set of wiring blocks instead of a new connection system)

ourt.jpg
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You're deeply appreciated for your service fun gus

hasty dew
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Uhh

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Doubt it though, probably just a single new item

misty canyon
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interesting

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i cant really comment much more since i havent seen any coverage of the lab

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oh it was delayed to tomorrow #Fine

misty canyon
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so

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fascinatingly

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behavior changing was added

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before event signals and objects

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now this cannot be done at runtime, the player either has to apply a superpower or its preset

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so behavior changes will be less about adding new behaviors and more just swapping states

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since those would be for superpowers

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now having seperate cartridges for each possible behavior was a bit of a concern but

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the cats out of the bag now so here it is

misty canyon
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theyre just additional mechanics on top of it

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unless theres a "shoots nothing" superpower

terse hound
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This would be cool, but the jigsaw style is making things way more complicated than this idea needs to be, the if and then blocks aren't needed. I do like the things that can be done, but the things show here are already possible.

misty canyon
misty canyon
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i simplified the system into basic wiring blocks

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being objects, event signals, behavior changes, and conditionals

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all of which arent possible in yeeps

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and despite being core elements of making games dont exist

terse hound
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though, with modifications this could be a really cool idea

misty canyon
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yeah which i've offered

misty canyon
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like it can shoot projectiles from other weapons but thats a new ability instead of being from the original

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like you dont let go of a weapon to shoot a shot

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but to that end what the original suggestion wanted kinda happened but in a different way more like enchantments rather than a logic system

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regardless the blocks that wouldve needed to be made to make this possible still would provide a lot of utility for community worlds, event signals especially

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its just that making them handle behavior changes is going to be a lot muddier when a system already exists like it

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which i'm happy to have more options in different ways but hardcoding all bats to behave like firebursts isnt the same as bats having an ability to shoot a fireburst projectile

errant bronze
iron apex
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And if it was client sided it would always only activate for them right?

primal crane
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yes

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this needs to be added

primal crane
errant bronze
# iron apex No???

well, I know how to desync wiring, all you gotta do is have an xor loop constantly activate a cannon which then activates a button and returns an output, but if the masterclient sleeps their headset then it will literally cause the cannon to stop firing for everyone else, which you can detect.

primal crane
errant bronze
primal crane
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the master client doesn't work like that

primal crane
errant bronze
primal crane
errant bronze
primal crane
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literally never worked like that

errant bronze
primal crane
errant bronze
primal crane
errant bronze
primal crane
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im in bed rn

errant bronze
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Oh, okay then.

misty canyon
drifting blaze
balmy mist
misty canyon
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going to remake this suggestion more compacted with the ideas i've since offered here and link it there so people can better pick up the concept and understand what its capable of
i will link that here when it's ready

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since it's evolved so much and diverged from the original conception of how an idea like this would be implemented ingame i think its all but fair, just letting people here know and you @cloud plover

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heres the start of making that digestible with some redesigned blocks

DC551537-56D7-40FD-9E84-C9685A43E7FD.png
harsh dust
misty canyon
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made a new updated thread here with all my concepts with this one credited within

drifting blaze
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what

chilly heron
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cool