Make Fireworks Cotton Cost Cheaper

[heady ridge]

To preface, Yeeps has a ton of movement tools that can send you higher for menial amounts of stuffing. The following information isn't to request nerfs to these items, but to describe the bar that fireworks need to reach, and I don't think the firework is in need of being changed functionally.
The grappling hook is a very reliable and cheap option that costs 300 stuffing to get out and 200 to attach to an object. Doing so allows you to pull yourself closer to the source, launching you distances that greatly outpace what the firework is capable of, and can be followed up with another grapple.
The recently added fire extinguisher also totals at 500 stuffing and is far more controllable, interacts with fire, and lasts for a much longer period.

On the side since it synergizes with all of these, hitting yourself with a snowball allows you to take the momentum each of these give you which in most cases brings you to world height consistently. The cost of this is an additional 300 stuffing and actually makes the grappling hook stronger by usually removing the need to reattach as the momentum you get is so strong.

With all of this in mind, the value the firework can get you is peanuts for 600 stuffing to launch you a distance you can barely react to or support yourself with, leading to a vacancy of usage with the playerbase as there are far better options.
My ideal cost for the firework would be in the range of 200-400 as the grappling hook and fire extinguisher both at a base cost of usage are 500 for far more mobility, letting it emerge as a quick oneoff use item to quickly go off in a direction.

[toxic mantle]

Fireworks are so bad ever since the nerf

[heady ridge]

That leads into another point I wanted to make, Yeeps has greatly advanced since fireworks were nerfed, with maps with miles more verticality and scale and the introduction of item restrictors also means that if a map could be easily cheesed with a certain tool (which grappling hooks do constantly and aren't banned anyways) they can just completely remove them

Actually, theres also another thing to consider when comparing grappling hooks and fireworks, being that you need a block to support your hook from and a clear direction to fling yourself with

Although when you're giving yourself verticality its because theres something you're scaling up to

and snowballs can easily let you reach build height

Also, the firework is gated by multiple pillows/cosmetics which aren't in the weekly build central cycle of free building tools to skip along tech webs while grappling hooks have several build items behind them

so if you're going off of buttcoin price and what most players can access, the firework technically costs MORE to most people

[pearl trail]

No you can watch @open oxide new video explainging why the prices are fair

[heady ridge]

Theres also things like bombs+snowball and the pellet gun/confetti cannon which can also do things but i wanted to equate the items by the intended commonly used use cases designed for them

[heady ridge]

I watched that video but that covers buttcoin purchases, this is referring to the stuffing cost to use them

[heady ridge]

For buttcoin prices, refer to this

[pearl trail]

Thought you were talking about buttcoin price lol they changed the cotton to

800 -> 600

[heady ridge]

although i dont care about buttcoin costs on tech webs im just saying how much the firework is done dirty and honestly i'm happy the stronger stuff is pricier so it really adds value and reason to keep playing daily

it deserves more love

[heady ridge]

600 is still way too much

[pearl trail]

Also confetti guns are better then fireworks lol

[pearl trail]

...

[heady ridge]

thats... why i want them to be balanced

read my messages

instead of reading the first 2 sentences and commenting useless things

[heady ridge]

i've been reading a lot of the other suggestions pertaining to firework balancing and its shocking it was once 500 because like thats still pretty rough LOL

since map design was far more flat and less accessible for people to switch between height levels even without gadgets it made sense why fireworks excelled at all skill levels but 2.0 fixed that design problem tenfold

the new 2.0 maps are so much better because of it but with that in mind, the variance in terrain also makes the on the fly usage of grappling hooks incredibly valuable as it adapts to any terrain and lets you constantly hang onto things

and for the record i love the grappling hooks im just saying how much theyve sorta replaced what seemed to be a dominant movement tool beforehand

[brazen flame]

500 fireworks were removed for a reason...

Although, in 2.0 I think they wouldn't be as overpowered anymore

[cedar remnant]

and he left the server

🥀

[polar kindle]

they are balanced...
500 to take out confetti guns, 100 to shoot
and if you don't double shoot, you'll get less height than a firework
if you do double shoot, you'll get maybe a little more height, for 100 for stuffing
that's completely fair imo
also, fire extinguishers are far slower than fireworks, so if they give more height for less stuffing (which I'm not certain that they do) it makes sense, as that height is built over the course of 5 seconds

[sick marten]

Fire extinguishers are mainly horizontal.

[polar kindle]

they were mainly talking about height

[sick marten]

Also to make my own claim instead of just backing Axolotl, I feel like fireworks should have increased distance and speed for a higher cost. I mainly don’t use them because as Yeeps has evolved over updates mobility has become more momentum based. This means that the firework actually just sucks unless you’re going straight up (which it is really good at) due to being slower than most players base running speed.

[cedar remnant]

What is the point of telling him this

he is GONE

😭

[polar kindle]

I don't care
I will be correct either way

[sick marten]

I didn’t know you were referring to him in your prior messages.

[sick marten]

The rabbit cannot see the screen.

[polar kindle]

the rabbit is telekinetic

[sick marten]

Oh

Wait

How does lifting objects with his mind help the rabbit see?

If the laptop goes over the mask then the face cam shows that they were a rabbit the whole time.

[polar kindle]

?

he reads the computer's mind

duh

[sick marten]

That’s telepathy, not telekinesis.

[polar kindle]

you can use telepathy on an object

[cedar remnant]

First wet birds now rabbits.

sigh

[polar kindle]

"not rabbits" 😭

[sick marten]

Telekinesis doesn’t give one the power to read minds. Telepathy is a viable option.

[cedar remnant]

Axolotl have you tried revolver spleef?

Fun as hell

[polar kindle]

the rabbit feels the computer's signals with telekinesis
thus reading its mind

[cedar remnant]

what.

what next wet birds can see through walls?

SPECIFICALLY wet birds

[heady ridge]

i leave servers i dont actively engage with and only join them if i have something to say or a piece of info
for example, i forgot what the numbers for the gogrewards games won were

[heady ridge]

they can be controlled horizontally but they still give you the same amount of height a straight up firework would be

[heady ridge]

theyre fine right now functionally, its just that the price for the amount of control and height you can get from it is just outrageous when you compare it to other options

fireworks filling the niche of a tool you can quickly throw out to go in a certain direction would be dope

if youre concerned about chaining them together there could be a cooldown where throwing them out in quick succession causes the rope to snap sooner, although still giving you a bit of momentum if you use a snowball

[sick marten]

Chaining is the fireworks only saving grace right now.

[heady ridge]

you can use a snowball if you want to retain the momentum

im shocked snowballs arent more often utilized theyre so good

just usually used for knocking people off in hangout lobbies

[heady ridge]

maps simply werent designed for upwards vertical movement to be a consistent factor, blue house and starter house both suffered heavily for the absence of quick easy vertical accessibility while playground had it easier

[sly eagle]

they still havent buffed it since the nerf over a year ago?

[heady ridge]

like there are several ways to easily gain major amounts of height atm so fireworks being severely hindered off of that initial design flaw to balance them out is silly

[heady ridge]

they changed it to 600 from 800 but still

even then 500 is way too much for what they are if you compare them

which is why i said 400 tops

because a grapple and snowball can get you to world height really quickly for 500 the issue is NOT fireworks nowadays but maps are designed better

[heady ridge]

thats why i didnt originally bring up those guns, i havent used them as much and theyre far more advanced than using a single item
fire extinguishers do give you the same height as fireworks too, so the diversity of having a more controllable slow pricier option to a quick cheap item is way healthier for balance

use both in gnome capital, they give you the same height

grappling hooks have this attribute where you can quickly attach to a wall, and fling in whatever direction you want for even cheaper

let alone the fact that theyre hand items instead of held items

[polar kindle]

I'm confused
you think a slower AND more expensive option gives "good diversity" ?
yeah the control is nice, but that comes with any slow option

the slower option should 100% come at a cheaper price, it just makes sense for balance

[lime vessel]

||why all the horses||

[heady ridge]

noooot exactly

again, the price is from the CONTROL you can have

and horizontally its Really fast

like faster than umbrella fast

its just that vertically youll be incrementing slower

[polar kindle]

that is true, I can't really refute it

[heady ridge]

but its still the same height

[polar kindle]

but the control is not worth having a high price

walking gives the most control, and is free

[heady ridge]

the thing is that yeeps is a very situational game so having items be appealing to use in certain situations is that healthy balance

[heady ridge]

its not even that high of a price its a good price for what you get

and 500 keeps it from being something you can keep spamming around

which ironically is what fireworks were

ofc fire extinguishers also need to have the pin pulled

so you cant dual wield them easily and throw

like the fire extinguishers are fairly well balanced for what they are

and the fact you can just throw fireworks out after each other shouldnt be factored into the price, it should be in the mechanics which is why i also bring up having the rope snap sooner

maybe you can throw a firework and then pull out a fire extinguisher and right before the firework snaps you trigger it

currently this would cost 1100 stuffing which is horrid

having a grapple launch + fire extinguisher would be 700 (+300 for setup but attach your grapplers at the stuffing machine)

[polar kindle]

I'd say the firework is good for what it is
it's one of, if not THE easiest movement options

[heady ridge]

800 if you just wanna do fire extinguisher + snowball to remove gravity and maintain the momentum from the jets

[polar kindle]

you can't just throw anything and get guaranteed movement like that
even grapplers require more effort to use more efficiently, and they require some sort of wall to actually climb

[heady ridge]

the firework should open itself up to synergies with other items instead of being spammed by itself but synergies get rather bogged down when the cotton price is so high

[polar kindle]

yeah confetti guns can be used in a similar way, but they cost more to get the same height

[heady ridge]

skill ceiling doesnt correlate to cost/benefit generally

also needing a wall to actively climb as ive stated before is irrelevant because if you want to get up somewhere theres usually always a wall or you can easily set one down

[polar kindle]

so should they nerf hot cocoa to be more in line with the more expensive options?

[heady ridge]

there isnt really any map that youre stuck in one spot

[polar kindle]

it takes 600 to get to the top of the map

[heady ridge]

doesnt hot cocoa just remove freezing tf

[polar kindle]

no, it's THE best movement option

no contest, you just have to be skilled

[heady ridge]

What the hell why can you do that

[polar kindle]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was a collision issue with the empty mug that was turned into a feature

[heady ridge]

do you take damage like the fireburst? the video is pretty old

also cocoa is 600 stuffing right

i'm more interested in looking at things from the perspective of intended mechanics (although i guess snowballs kinda stretch that line)

[polar kindle]

not from hot cocoa

[polar kindle]

200 each, and it takes 3 to hit the height limit

[heady ridge]

yeah i feel like they should balance it out by making you take damage or something that is insane

[polar kindle]

it's skill based

it's fine that it's cheap, because not everyone can do it

[heady ridge]

again it doesnt matter how much skill you need to use it if you can do it at all

[polar kindle]

that's your opinion

[heady ridge]

yeah which is why making it only take more stuffing from damaging yourself with it would make sense

ive genuinely never seen that before that is insane

[polar kindle]

if you think everything should be balanced for new players, and excluding skill based gadgets being better if you can use them, then I don't know what to tell you

[heady ridge]

you take a higher cost from people doing the glitch, not from people using it in an intended way

[polar kindle]

it doesn't seem to be what the devs want

[polar kindle]

clearly it's intended, or they would've patched it forever ago

[heady ridge]

theres a difference between a game being balanced casually and having a skill ceiling for certain elements

[heady ridge]

that doesnt mean it was intended, they kept it because its fun

but that specific interaction should be balanced uniquely because that is genuinely insane

[polar kindle]

they patched it for arrows when fantasy came out, but left it for cocoa
and they made the drink do knockback to the person who threw it, and ONLY the person who threw it

[heady ridge]

yeah so youd only be able to damage yourself by throwing it

and still remove status effects from others

[heady ridge]

so yeah to answer your question Yes they should balance that

but fireworks being easy to use doesnt mean they should cost more

theyre less situational to use

anyone can use them but getting value and synergizing with other tools is where that skill comes in

[polar kindle]

here's the thing, it's skill based
should they also make it so when you move too fast, you take damage from moving too fast, so that skilled players are on the same level as less skilled players?

[heady ridge]

its like saying theres no skill in a portal ball

[polar kindle]

???

[heady ridge]

like yeah you just warp to where youve thrown it but you have to decide where youre going to go and when you should use it

and follow it up with other methods to obfuscate and get away

[heady ridge]

this is just a faulty comparison

moving fast is what these tools give you, balancing how they do for the cost of stuffing they require is what you do

so cocoa letting you reach build limit instantly without needing other items together would be a balancing change to reduce how much speed and verticality you can get through low stuffing amounts

[polar kindle]

okay so your take is
"we should nerf the skill based gadgets, as you can be too good with them"

if you mess up, you completely waste stuffing

[heady ridge]

for cocoa yeah it should give you a bit of damage for using it

youd only take damage if you actually pull it off

which is why pulling out the item is the same cost

the only thing i really want is for fireworks to be cheaper to use

and if balancing that out to prevent spam is necessary then it shouldnt be through the fireworks itself

[proven canopy]

See, I think the suburbs tech web needs a rebalance, maybe, but, uh, that's up to the devs, and this is my opinion.

[heady ridge]

the tech web costs are fine but a lot of items are behind cosmetics or other gadgets/pillows that dont appear with the build central weekly block rotation

[polar kindle]

dude
fireworks are balanced
you can spam them, you get very solid height out of it (with decent speed)
and again, you need zero skill to use them
if a gadget that requires no skill, just throw in the DIRECTION you want to go towards to get there, it should be a little more expensive

[heady ridge]

fireworks should be a quick and easy way to go in a direction quickly

[polar kindle]

they are
so they don't need to be cheaper

😭

[heady ridge]

the expense should come from how you follow it up, the amount of movement and control you get from it isnt comparable

so yeah reduce the amount you can directly spam fireworks themselves if you want

but the cost to pull them out at all should be lower

[polar kindle]

dude
what??

[heady ridge]

comboing multiple items together is how advanced yeeps gameplay comes into play

[proven canopy]

We're talking about the suburbs tech web which is the cheapest

[polar kindle]

so do that instead of using fireworks, if fireworks won't work for you

[proven canopy]

Fireworks are cheap

[heady ridge]

COTTON COST NOT BUTTCOINS

READ MY MESSAGES

NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE TECH WEB

[proven canopy]

It's easy to get cotton

[heady ridge]

and the price of fireworks themselves prevent synergy to flow so theyre often avoided

[heady ridge]

its easy to Get cotton but the challenge is Maintaining it

[polar kindle]

confetti cannons are more expensive, they aren't avoided

[heady ridge]

you need to use cotton enough to get people off your back

[heady ridge]

i also dont use confetti cannons and i dont care because they have their own sets of utilities

like knockback

while fireworks are literally only used for going in a certain direction

[proven canopy]

I have not seen anybody use a firework in the since 1.0 in pvp

[toxic mantle]

fr

They are so useless now

So many better gadgets

[polar kindle]

think about what you're asking here
how do you think this would be more balanced?
"600 for a skill based gadget that can get you really far is wayy too little"
but also
"600 is way too much, because you can't combo something that expensive into something else"

what is cheap to you dawg

[proven canopy]

See if I'm trying to get up high. I use the fireburst.

[toxic mantle]

The distance isnt even big

[heady ridge]

grappling hooks cost 200 to set a hook

fire extinguishers cost 500 to get the same height a firework can give you while also giving you the freedom to move really fast horizontally while you reach that height

[polar kindle]

but you need to be in an ideal area to use them

[heady ridge]

EVERYWHERE HAS WALLS

[polar kindle]

you can't use grapplers on spikes

[heady ridge]

you wouldnt use fireworks either because you can barely control out of them

if you have in mind something like the lava depths caves

and threading that needle takes more skill frankly

[polar kindle]

maybe I would

you don't know me

[heady ridge]

do it then

beat lava depths using only fireworks

[polar kindle]

go to the lava dungeon to prove a point?
no

would I beat the dungeon with only cocoa, or grapplers?

no

your point makes no sense

[heady ridge]

i'd do it personally because it would be insurmountable aura

but i digress

[polar kindle]

aura is no blocks or gadgets

[heady ridge]

This is also true

[thorn scarab]

It was not aura, it was hell

[polar kindle]

that's a good point

[heady ridge]

Make Fireworks Cotton Cost Cheaper

fixed that so people dont come in again

[thorn scarab]

Specifically that one jump that leads into the hole section right before the maze

The positioning is pretty uncomfortable

[heady ridge]

the aura comes from doing the challenge specifically to prove a suggestion wrong not doing it on your own volition

[heady ridge]

also areas with spikes arent really relevant for balance since theyre just in dungeons which you can throw down pillows to avoid anyways

and since fireworks are one use you cant reuse them so youd need to set up cotton plants

ofc armored crabs can also take those out too but at least if you die and need to redo it you can work with them

[thorn scarab]

You don’t need pillow plants

[heady ridge]

but yeah i agree fireworks could be tweaked a little bit to encourage synergizing with other gadgets instead of just using them after another

grappling hooks are in a weird spot where you cant really do that without heavily breaking the flow of them but thats somewhat scaled by needing a surface and a specific direction fling

and since grappling hooks are hand items you can easily pull other items out quickly

i think i'll leave my input there since it'd just be circling and again i only join servers when i need to see some info or contribute a specific suggestion i've had, expect me to check back in when that happens
👁️ I Will See You

[polar kindle]

they're also in pvp maps, and CWs

[heady ridge]

on the floor or surrounded by walls for pits which you can grapple out of

[polar kindle]

you could say that about most gadgets

[heady ridge]

then yeah balance them more to encourage synergy while still being solid utility on their own

[polar kindle]

you can synergize anything with anything else, and it works the same as it would with firework into something else
honestly, something into firework could work too

[heady ridge]

i have since been informed that with 600 stuffing between two impulse sticky bombs you can go all the way across the map if you throw it at the ground and then jump with them behind your back

alternatively since its rather hard to follow that into a snowball unless you have to pull it out midair you can grab two impulse sticky bombs and then jump with a snowball which sends you to build height

ofc this setup only really works on the ground albeit wherever youd launch would have ground to follow it up with and once youve gained that midair height you can then start using other tools to maintain height or shift direction

this combo is not only more accessible earlygame but still has quite a bit of skill attached to it which just further cements the firework as being more vestigial than a gadget that people actually use

and a pretty big reason why i love yeeps is the fact that i can just keep finding more movement tech like this from unlikely sources that ive previously written off

[polar kindle]

wait you didn't know this?

iirc, this is like the first thing I did with sticky bombs 😭

[idle lake]

Fireworks are in this state due to there being no balance changes more movement items