Story 2 - Kaifeng

[vivid kraken]

So it’s him recognizing potential in common people and not really trusting the current standard of government

[versed vault]

i know right? that’s my song dynasty goat fr

[vivid kraken]

But bro’s really gotta go pass some laws once in a while….stop throwing chickens

[versed vault]

i think passing laws is difficult during this era as well, because power has been dispersed and trust is not with the government

have to regain the trust of the common folk before they riot against the government

[vivid kraken]

Still surely it’s more useful than dressing up as a velvet sect dancer 😭

Even his brother was confused

[versed vault]

mans hate that yellow robe fr

HAHAHAHAHA

[grizzled temple]

If someone is curious about a Historical overview connected to Kaifeng and the Emperors, feel free to read my summarized post
https://www.reddit.com/r/wherewindsmeet_/comments/1p9nkfh/a_historical_overview_and_context_for_where_winds/

Or check the pinned messags in #🌱beginner-questions

[faint harness]

There is NO WAY that I crash mid fight with god of coins at stage three

💀

[versed vault]

😭😭

[faint harness]

😭

But so far, my jaw cant drop any farther, this game is so breathtaking and unbelievle that its free 2 play

[versed vault]

3 months till the next chapter

🥹

[faint harness]

WHAT

REALLY?

[versed vault]

i think so, unless they’re going to allow us to explore north kaifeng between the 3 months

we’ll be going to a new region with next chapter

[faint harness]

Ah okay

The way my jaw dropped when Big Zhao entered at the end when we teleported to the balcony

[fleet maple]

next region is Hexi I think

He already declared himself emperor

[wintry linden]

cn is ahead of us right?

how many areas have they unlocked

they could spoil us the whole story

[fleet maple]

4 5 iirc

4 5 months for 1 region

[versed vault]

but song dynasty is not yet formed, i'm saying the unified song dynasty, not the current one as china is still very broken

[fleet maple]

Yeah, but he's technically emperor still

[versed vault]

you can declare yourself emperor, only if you dare, because that states your ambition to unify china even when you have not

but people will not agree with you or support you

[faint harness]

Question, is Shi and the other guy (I forgot his name) in purple dead?

[fleet maple]

Well, he's still an emperor even if his legitimacy wasnt the highest yet

[versed vault]

he is emperor of the song dynasty, but again, i was referring to after his rise to the unified, song dynasty

yeah im very aware of chinese history

[fleet maple]

Shi is dead, but who's the other guy u mean

[faint harness]

The leader, I relly forgot his name 😭 He wears a purple dress

The prefect

[versed vault]

zhao's brother

[fleet maple]

That's the emperor's brother

Who's gonna be the 2nd emperor after Big Zhao so he's alive and kicking

[faint harness]

Ahh

Will we ever know what happened at the balcony with Big Zhao? When we met him afterwards it was like nothing had happend?

[fleet maple]

Well we probably talked it out, resolve some misunderstandings and stuff

Big Zhao opened the treasury for the common people

Introduce paper money

[faint harness]

Yeah I understood that part, but I am just curious of what was being said, hopefully we will get to know in the future

[fleet maple]

Probably a discussion about how to resolve the coin shortage problem, ember of the east convincing big Zhao to open the treasury for the common people etc

The commenrs was suffering because of all the money that went into the war

We know that Big zhao was commited to the wars because he believed that it would solve the problems, but after the whole ordeal he probably changed his mind

[torpid hull]

It’s because he happened to see us using the nameless sword in the street to fight the officials. He knows Jiang Yan

[scarlet ocean]

i don't understand why people bow to lord shi
like what does he do specifically and is the gold making vessel real?

[vestal fable]

Hallucinations? He uses the gold coin trees for it.

[scarlet ocean]

ohh

[tepid pawn]

Oh I actually thought he was a god lol

[vestal fable]

Welp no just really "accomplished" martial artist. Kinda weird because it's supposed to be wuxia yet you have the two big bads going Deity Transformation level from xianxia with their domain expansions...

[tepid pawn]

Yeah haha I was a bit confused bro was huge I’m assuming that was caused by the illusions

[vestal fable]

That's illusions. Yingying's pouch helped break.

[tepid pawn]

||I wonder what attack we used to finish off that battle||

That was some “wait I’m the protagonist” shi

[vestal fable]

Looked like "power of friendship"

[full sequoia]

Is it possible to miss the Reunion quest in Kaifeng? Is there anywhere we can see the quests we've done?

[rare fjord]

is my game bugged or the the cutscene with Lord Shi (red robed guy) in Revelry Hall not have subtitles? (the part where the vessel is stolen)

[pastel acorn]

Granny believes in us so we must win

[tepid pawn]

Still peak

Can’t wait for more story!!! I Hope we get even stronger!

[pastel acorn]

Should be something from the nameless sword

[vestal fable]

And more murderhobo. Canonically that is.

[tepid pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/homeless-homeless-man-karate-homeless-karate-homeless-cobrai-kai-gif-13363310871922196347

Elder gongsun be like

[vestal fable]

That sseth video lives rent free...

[glossy eagle]

Is weifang an unlocked region yet ?

I tried to find it on the map but couldn’t

Is it story part 3 ?

[fleet maple]

next region is called Hexi. So far in CN there's no weiyang region yet

[versed vault]

no wei yang

my hengdao…. i wait…..

[outer mason]

whats the exact area where Hengdao releases

[versed vault]

hexi

halfway through ch3, hengdao will be released

[vestal fable]

Syykrae said it was 8 months in later in cn server..

[versed vault]

yes cn server had delays but if the projected release of ch3 in global is still in 3 months time, we will get hengdao during then

[full sequoia]

Is it possible to miss the Reunion quest in Kaifeng? Is there anywhere we can see the quests we've done? I already beat "Dao Lord" and met the triplets

[versed vault]

because release of weapons are tied to new maps

[fleet maple]

Which Reunion quest?

Rings a bell but I forgot what that quest was about

[versed vault]

if you’re talking about the golden leaf quest

i don’t think you can brick it by progressing main story first

[full sequoia]

@fleet maple I'm not sure. I saw a prerendered cutscene someone posted on a 3 min YouTube short, and someone on the comments said it was a side quest called Reunion

[glossy eagle]

Ok ok thx

[fleet maple]

I looked up the quest, if u just beat Dao lord then you must have done this quest a long time ago

[full sequoia]

Did my link get censored?

[fleet maple]

You can dm me the link, Im interested in which cutscene ur talkinga bout too. Cant send links in this server

[full sequoia]

@fleet maple I figured it out. It's not from the Reunion quest, it's from Shadows in Bloom

[fleet maple]

Ohh, the revelry hall cutscene, was a good one

[manic turret]

i think i missed something, why is the ember of the east power seems to be on weakened state? she was fine during the previous story line, killling the couple warrior.

[fleet maple]

Ithink it's more that her political power in Weiyang is weakened, not her martial abilities

[versed vault]

she’s not weakened state, she managed to escape herself but her hands are tied at how much she can go against lord shi as there are political repercussions

[fleet maple]

Come to think of it, isnt ember of the east the perfect sugar mommy for the young master

[versed vault]

she technically is… that’s are new friend we bought with our parting tears wine

[vestal fable]

There's a signpost with this exact comment with 900 likes

[fleet maple]

WORTH

[blissful sonnet]

Just wanted to say how goddamn awesome that final furnace sequence was. The boss, the wall running and parkouor. So freaking good!!! 💥💥💥💥💥

[fleet maple]

Definitely made up for the slow pacing at the start

[vestal fable]

Wait she's currently broke tho..

[fleet maple]

Well she said she would be rich again in a few years, no problem there

[tepid pawn]

Wait I’m also confused on how she’s broke

Is it a case of celebrity gone broke lol

[vestal fable]

Failed power struggle -> kicked out (most likely)

[fleet maple]

Lord Shi, her main rival ousted her

[versed vault]

then lord shi also got kicked out of wei yang and became who he is now

loser

[tepid pawn]

||Didn’t they say that it wasn’t the true lord shi either||

[blissful sonnet]

I spent ages fighting the guys outside the dungeon building before I figured i was supposed to run away.

[fleet maple]

Yeah, fake lord Shi colluding with Aucreate pavillion

[versed vault]

yes, god of avarice, wuhen is his real identity — he took the place and pretend to be lord shi

[vestal fable]

Who's the big boss in WeiYang rn tho?

[tepid pawn]

Ah ok I get it I feel like there’s too much for me to wrap my head around to finally get what’s going on lol

[versed vault]

welcome to wuxia

and chinese history

[vestal fable]

Mostly because everybody tries to hide stuff being like "boo hoo jianghu affairs should stay there". Everyone needs a good spanking for being all sneaky.

[fleet maple]

I think the Wen family is big boss of Weiyang, with 4 leaders east west north south

[vestal fable]

Yingying's fake? sob story touched that a bit..

[fleet maple]

She's a Wen

[versed vault]

Yingying is her new identity when she went to Kaifeng, she took the identity of a dead daughter of granny turtle bc that old lady has memory issues 😭

but she was wen wuque

the one aunty han sent a letter to before heavenly pier 💀

[tepid pawn]

That’s so messed up

[fleet maple]

I think granny turtle only has a son who died, and yingying just took the role of her daughter when there wasnt one

[vestal fable]

Yeah, who's known to be male. Spicy succession and family drama coming up? 👀

[versed vault]

thought both died lowk..

[fleet maple]

I hear that CN players dont rate kaifeng's arc highly, and the later arcs are way more highly rated.

Very looking forward to Hexi man, 3 monthst though

[pastel acorn]

Qinghe arc S+ tier in terms of pain, suffering, and futility

[fleet maple]

Someone said Hexi is pretty sad

[pastel acorn]

Where weepers meet

[versed vault]

Qinghe is standard Wuxia beginning unfortunately

HAHAHAHA

But the impact is very good to start things in motion

[grand sonnet]

In fact, most Chinese players can't understand the plot of Kaifeng either. It's too complicated and has an extremely large amount of text.

[pastel acorn]

And in those standard Wuxia, sometimes they revive those they lost

[fleet maple]

I personally think the plot in kaifeng so far has been easier to understand than qinghe

[versed vault]

Kaifeng, when you want to look into further detail and understand more is quite messy because of the sheer amount of information and missing information

It’s more politically focused

Most people will have a hard time following because there’s more things to keep track of I think

[fleet maple]

There's still that human market though, will we ever get to deal with that?

[versed vault]

not yet i think?

in 12 days we will get more kaifeng content

[tight magnet]

so the northwest only opens in 12 days?

[versed vault]

yep

[tight magnet]

awww

Do you know if Velvet Shade sect opens with the northwest or does that only come with Hexi?

[grand sonnet]

Now the government has noticed them and should take some measures.

[versed vault]

should be with hexi release

[tight magnet]

After the unlocked quest today, I overheard some of the unbound thugs in the ash quarter saying the Dao Lord stormed the cavern...so maybe the rat trio dealt with it

[tight magnet]

Double Awwww

[pastel acorn]

We snitching to our uncle Zhao

[grand sonnet]

Really? Generally, people tend to think that Kaifeng is more difficult to understand. And indeed, there are many hidden clues in Kaifeng that are hard to discover.

[tight magnet]

The issue is that the storyline is out of order due to the timelocks imo

[pastel acorn]

In Kaifeng we do get a clearer conclusion?

[grand sonnet]

Yes, the confusion of the timeline is a very significant problem. However, Everstone has stated in an interview that this was the effect they had anticipated.

[tepid pawn]

That’s a bummer

[pastel acorn]

We'll surely see YingYing again as we have even been invited, but Granny turtle where? Will wee see another grave again?

[marble ermine]

The 'is Batman Bruce Wayne or is Bruce Wayne Batman' conundrum hehe

[grand sonnet]

Yes, Yingying, as a character of the golden level in this game, is a very important figure. In the near future, she will keep her promise and bring the protagonist the news of Aunt Han.

[grand sonnet]

Don't worry, Granny Turtle is still selling baby turtles in the town. Next time you see her, you can give her some money.

[pastel acorn]

We only have Tang coins🤣

[marble ermine]

out of curiosity, are you saying 12 days based off CN's release schedule?

Also, is there an official statement by the devs on the release schedule plan, ie 'CN waited X days for X, therefor global will too'. Presuming the timebetween content for CN in the past was devs actively developing new content, staggering 'made' content for global feels sort of arbitrary? do they not plan to let us catch up 1:1 to CN? 🤔 (unless the content stagger is them needing time to localise haha)

[pastel acorn]

If we catch up to the story good for us, if not can't complain, they need time to showcase cosmetics

[versed vault]

there is no official statement and yes it is based off what cn release schedule was like - the devs and netease are working on completely different things, the devs work on the game but netease is in-charge of the localisation and translation. it should not take additional time for netease to localise or translate if they actually have a hired team of translators (i dont think they do lol)

they theoretically will not stagger releases but i think we will always be behind cn release timings, cn version has a massive delay between chapters due to devteam having issues with bugs and finalising things.

[marble ermine]

i see 🤔 thank you, fingers 🤞

[wary sluice]

i hope i get to kill this ft pig soon

this made me tear up a little man, its just a poorly translated game story

[restive eagle]

is this the part where the girl gets taken by the guards and u talk with the 3 little girls?

[rigid ravine]

oh boy do i have some good news for you.

[faint harness]

Sameee 😭

[wary sluice]

ouch that last scene hit hard

[pastel acorn]

Soon my friends you'd get to kick his as* and quite marvelously

[pastel acorn]

Thought that was her son?

I did too😭 but honestly granny looked satisfied that another mother's son came home

[ebon ice]

We need grannys son to come back

[proper wharf]

Hey guys! Anybody knows when the Main Story will continue after the furnace act? Thanks

[lyric walrus]

When I finished the campaign, it put me next to the bird wreckage in the water and I chose to let it drift instead of picking up the pieces, did I screw myself out of the wandering tale?

[vivid kraken]

She can trade those in for song coins now! (You can slip her 5k that’s like 5 years worth of rent)

Also i would assume yingying would send her some money she better

[pastel acorn]

50k granny, eat buns everyday til you rest in peace

[vivid kraken]

Oh trust me I’m checking how fast her interaction resets I’m gonna give granny so much money

[pastel acorn]

is she always in that same spot?

[vivid kraken]

During morning hours. Idk where she goes at night. She isn’t in her house for sure since I checked

[left swift]

No I haven’t found a use for the broken piece you get from that.

[glass adder]

You will use the pieces for a wanderting tales later.

[odd violet]

I know this might be controversial but compared to the Dao Lord kids Ruby was totally useless, bro couldn't even stay inside the safe zone and got killed for nothing compared to these three beggar kids who practically took over the leader of the underworld position to uphold the black market and keep an entire city alive, actually good martial artists who are helpful in so many different situations, like Ruby needed a baby sitter whereas these kids are out here running cities, rescuing heroes, saving the people

[left swift]

I mean the Dao kids were literally taught martial arts by one of the top masters. Ruby's the daughter of a random wine maker. I don't think she knows how to fight at all, maybe a few moves taught by us at best for fun. It's like comparing Robin (DC) to a random kid. Ruby wasn't useful cuz she' just a kid. She did save the villagers cuz only she was able to sneak out and guide everyone out of the formation.

[stiff ore]

they cooked

[stiff ore]

Ruby's idea wasn't bad the issue is that she was totally not understanding the genuine threat

[glass adder]

They live in two diferrent circumstances.

[stiff ore]

^

[left swift]

ya she's like probably 8. Of course kids at that age makes stupid mistakes, unfortunately. She tried her best to be a heroine in her own mind and probably did know the risk of dying. So it's sad in that way

[odd violet]

It's fair that she's a kid but this is the jianghu she should have put the work in and learned from Aunt Han, she was a frog in a well dreaming of being a dragon

[left swift]

I don't think aunt han is teaching anybody, you know she's pretending to be an inn keeper right

I don't even think she taught you anything. it's just Jiang

She is a frog in a well dreaming of being a dragon, and when she saw the opportunity save everyone, she did it. She probably knew the risks but also really didn't, cuz she's like 8

[odd violet]

I mean did we even need her to guide us out of the formation, we'd already found the witch who was the centre of it and then we killed her (no thanks to the Rubester), her life's achievements were naming one horse and decorating one tree

(also I am just kidding lol obviously Ruby was a kid and a brave one at that)

[left swift]

yes they made a strong point to say only someone outside of the formation can guide people out. WE didn't need it, but the villagers only got out based on her flag. that's 1:1 the dialogue in game. We didn't leave, we went to fight the focal point aka witch

she is stupid, but she also did a heroic thing, and it's kinda sad. I think all can be true, but I agree the Dao kids are peak

you're right tho, we probably could've avoided it cuz we did end up beating the witch

like the villagers could've left after

[odd violet]

Hopefully Ruby was secreted away by Auntie Han and is now learning the ways of the faceless crew and next time we see her she's like beefed up jianghu assassin dressed in blood stained red cloth

[fleet maple]

I think by the time the fight with the witch was over, everyone would have been slaughtered by the Aucreate Pavillion goons already had they not escape

[unkempt python]

Wait so the witch actually died at the end?

[odd violet]

Not sure actually, I just kinda assumed but it's not confirmed, same with killerblade

[fleet maple]

Nah the witch is still alive and kicking

[ebon ice]

Im pretty sure he died tho

[ebon ice]

Bruh

[odd violet]

He just went to the big jianghu farm up north where all the big jianghu heroes go to kick back and relax

[ebon ice]

If he did fr then he might just be unkillable

[desert violet]

is big zhao the emperor of kaifeng?

[round plinth]

yeah he is the emperor

isnt it so cool

I love that guy so much

[desert violet]

Oh ic. I was confused about why the prefect of kaifeng was too friendly with big zhao and calling him brother, and the soldiers as well...

[unkempt python]

Big zhao reminds me of Sammo hung fr he can get serious and funny when he needs to

[round plinth]

that guy that he was talking to on the balcony who wants to take tang coins is his brother

and if I understand my history well, he will become the emperor after him

[full sequoia]

Does anyone know where I can get chinese perch with wild fruit? It's for the Ritual Office quest

@unkempt python i thought the same thing

[vivid kraken]

the dao kids are basically those top ballet kids who start training 8 hours a day as soon as they are able to walk and tour the world alone as a professional in a world class troupe at 16 . ruby is you average school club suburb kids who gets driven to school by her mom even tho it's a 15 min walk

also worth being said that i don't think the dao kids would have been able to beat qianye either, much less alone. We can't even beat qianye and we beat the dao kids.

it's not like ruby lost to some random soldiers she lost to one of the most powerful martial artists we have seen so far

[hollow dove]

so yingying is the ember of yeast

[lament stump]

Yeast?

[vivid kraken]

So that’s why she keeps giving us pictures of bread

[torpid hull]

If anyone's interested, I just made a lore video on Kaifeng main story

Happy to DM! title is

Where Winds Meet Lore - Kaifeng Main Story Explained

[stiff ore]

it was very sad when the young wanderer said they weren't good with fire also

immediately remembered the charred blissful retreat every time i see fire, genuine trauma 😭

here it was

[lament stump]

Tbf I think the main reason they pick infiltrating the furance is because of the amount of enemies inside

[fluid sierra]

I think my surprise favourite character is Granny Turtle.
After initially literally rolling my eyes at what I saw as just a quirky throwaway character I came to realise that she is the very heart of the community. And the quiet dignity with which she bears her terrible loss is genuinely expiring.
And OMG the moment where she believes her son came home, only to have the hope crushed hit like a tone of bricks.
Finally I love how respectfully the game handles her (apparently worsening) dementia, not ever playing it as a joke.

[verbal nimbus]

Sad we can't do much for her but some of us slipped in money for her so it gives a sense of helping her out

even seen someone built a small shop for her

[fluid sierra]

This is beautiful, I love this community!

[grand sonnet]

Yes, my friend built her a small shop in this way.

[cunning hornet]

Just finished chapter 2, and I want to find where the turtle granny and widow Zhou are (granny's house is empty). If someone got a map location, it would be helpful (please ping me)

I searched every single house , or I think I did, in the forsaken quarter and couldn't find them

[fleet maple]

try to look for her at where she first sold you the turtle, she might be there

[wary sluice]

i mean it is pretty obvious that he is actually dead and has been for quite some time. i really like how there is this stark contrast between the supernatural borderline comedic aspects and the insanely grounded and depressing tones in wuxia. feels way too real sometimes and then suddenly people just windwalk 5km in 30 seconds

[fluid sierra]

As devastating as the scene in the end of the story was, it would have felt very cheap to have him actually come back. As much as I would want him to.

[wary sluice]

ah i thought it was just to give the kids the impression that they are more needed and important in this mission as you yourself "cant do it".

[wary sluice]

yeah even thought its fantasy, it is still grounded in reality in a strong way

i really like that

[fluid sierra]

I ran into Granny Turtle just now, around the Shen Hour at Kaifeng Suburbs South, a few paces west of the Wheatwind Bazaar teleporter.

[fluid sierra]

And if you talk to her, you get a wonderful conversation, a turtle and you can secretly leave money for her. I did and she will probably scold me for it. 😄

[vivid kraken]

She will have to find us again to scold us for it (perfect time for us to slip her a couple thousand)

[fluid sierra]

My thoughts exactly. Plus we have practice appeasing Aunty Han, just a bit of the big eyes will do it. 😄

[pastel acorn]

Well the rumor in the beginning is true if that's the case, that Killerblade has massive amounts of luck

[vocal wigeon]

I’m at the point where it’s revealed Yingying is Grandma Turtle’s daughter, but mc doesn’t seem to mention how he had to put up Aunt Han’s wine as collateral, which was prematurely sold. Did I miss something? Did we already get the wine back at that point?

[pastel acorn]

You'll talk about it

You'll talk to Yingying

[vocal wigeon]

Oh, ok. Thank you

[hollow dove]

wait is big zhao the emperor

of kaifeng

[fair drift]

hey guys i just entered kaifeng, and realized all my meow2 coins disappeared ?! is it normal ?

[pastel acorn]

Yes

Kaifeng and Qinghe has their own meowmeow

[fair drift]

so my qinghe meow2 and kaifeng meow2 is separate ?

[pastel acorn]

Yes sir

[fair drift]

copy that, will check in qinghe

[old orchid]

That God of Avarice fight had to be more fun than the one at the end of Qinghe. It was so cool the mechanics of the boss fight.

[muted gale]

Somebody help me I completed the whole story of kaifeng and fight with God of Avarice
What will happen next is any update will come

[sour wasp]

coupla days for the next level increase

[full sequoia]

Could anyone please tell me where the Immortal Tree in Vigilance Garden is?

[rose turret]

So the resolution to the story is ||they invented bank notes?||

Anyone else regularly ask Chatbot NPCs how to find Qianye?

They give some amusing responses.

[rocky holly]

dodging until cutscene is better than the insane red blue boss?

[old orchid]

No no no, I’m talking about the sand boss.

The witch is by far the best so far.

[rocky holly]

thought u were talking about firelord ozai from wish

[sharp barn]

Please fix kaifeng optimization

[old orchid]

Huh? LOL yeah no. I am comparing the 3 life buddha sand boss to the 3 life God of Avarice.

[rocky holly]

3 life God of Avarice = firelord ozai from wish

[old orchid]

Both are kinda hard, Buddha is weirdly enough the hardest boss in the game.

[old orchid]

That’s wild.

[rustic valve]

Short answer: Yes, but not really

[fluid sierra]

I don't think he could mess around in town when he was. But he clearly outranks his brother. 🙂

[stiff ore]

god of avarice wasnt a hard boss but God for the life of me could not dodge his money thing

[dawn rapids]

anyone here has guides on the dark surge of kaifeng?

[verbal nimbus]

i think his p3 with the adds hurt the most for me

[ebon ice]

Imo wolf maiden is harder

[pastel acorn]

I would like to agree with this, but we all have our own experiences, we just have a certain boss who likely punishes our bad habits

[verbal nimbus]

must protect

[vivid tree]

That boss battle was fantastic!!!!!

[lament stump]

Lookie here Murong Yuan copying our vibe with the mask and all. Does this confirm that she's alive after the campaign?

[fleet maple]

Yeah, alive and kicking

[verbal nimbus]

wheres this at'

[lament stump]

Masterwood Hamlet

[verbal nimbus]

thanks im going there to find her

[fleet maple]

You have to do masterwood hamlet 1

[heady wasp]

is lord condor from Qinghe encounter "tales that soar" one of Murong Yuan's contraptions?

asking here since murong is kaifeng related just to be safe

[verbal nimbus]

cant find her and i dont know what you mean by that. I did end up finding Jade of Craft

[fleet maple]

It’s wandering tales

[fleet maple]

Probably a real bird

[heady wasp]

there is no way she survived that

we sure masterwood isn't supposed to be before the campaign?

[fleet maple]

It’s after, we find out that she went into hiding after that

[heady wasp]

damn girl's tough

[fleet maple]

It’s one of the quest that you can only do when u finish the campaign

[glass adder]

There are 4 wandering tales related to Murong Yuan after her campaign.

[left swift]

It’s about how paper money is worthless unless people have faith in your government. Granny herself finally let go all her other coins. This is like how economy collapse in real life when a country falls over

[left swift]

Interesting they made the 1st paper money currency in the world apparently tho

[left swift]

It’s possible based on how it wa presented as so mechanical but probably a reference to the god condor in condor heroes series specific second book. It’s like the LOTR of wuxia novels

[lament stump]

You gotta listen to people around there's also that guy looking for his purse at the gate of the shrine.

[lament stump]

I still can't trigger that girl to show up after giving the wooden eagle to Shi Shouxin... Uuuuuuuuugh

And he now ask me for another eagle? What?

[fleet maple]

I think she only shows up at certain hour

[lament stump]

I already checked... I followed the signposts instructions. Still no luck

[fleet maple]

Have you tried you hour?

[lament stump]

Yes...

[fleet maple]

Damn...might be a bug for real

[pastel acorn]

Her face might be burnt, or our mc just started a trend for those who has to hide their identities🤣

[verbal nimbus]

I see. I did came across a dog quest with him about being neutered lol

ok never mind I found her

[lament stump]

What dog quest? Can you tell me about it?

[rose turret]

It's kinda silly though, cause that's true for anytthing. Everything is only worth as much as people believe it is. That's the basis of the concept of currency in the first place.

[verbal nimbus]

it was an encounter at masterwood hamlet. I was running around searching for clues and i thought it was part of it but it turned out it was an encounter about a dog trying to flex his family jewels lol

but it all turns out he was neutered and been harassing the guy who cut him up

[left swift]

the idea was that this was during the 5 kingdom 10 dynasty period, so every kingdom had their "currency" every year

so people ifnally believe in peace

etc

[rose turret]

No yeah, I got that. It's just kind of a commically simple thing to have an the conclusion to your story arc. Like if they had this big epic conflict and then it was resolved by people realizing that plants need water to grow.

[fleet maple]

Tbf Song was one of the first countries to use bank notes. And the whole conflict was because Big Zhao was wondering if his brother, the prefect of Kaifeng, policy to confiscate tang coins was the right decision or not

So in the aftermath, he chose the welfare of the people instead of pursueing the war against southern tang

It's not all about the banknotes

[scarlet ocean]

Based on the encounter
Lord condor is said to be a huge condor who used to rule the Qinghe's wilds. One time, the khitan captured lord condor, but they were unable to tame him. So they break his beak and claws.
Feng Nengqi then helped Lord condor survive by making his missing part machines. That's why he has claws as sharp as a knife.
And his nest is at Palace of Annals

So I don't think they're related

[muted jetty]

once u complete the last quest, how do u unlock the chest. Ive spoken to the general and gave the bird, but the girl has not showed up at the like at you hour after ive waited 24 h

[fleet maple]

The girl showed up before I did the wandering tales of the general guy, it might have been bugged

For people who did the wandering tales quest first, that's my speculation

I remember talking to the general again and jumped down from the bridge then the encounter triggered for me (before giving him the eagle)

[glass adder]

Did you go the cave to get the blueprint to give to the guy to open the chest?

[lament stump]

Don't we need to trigger the quest with the girl to access the cave?

[glass adder]

My bad, i thought him already talked to the girl and just waiting for the next encounter.

I first talked to the girl around 3-7pm in the game

[lament stump]

That's the thing she just won't spawn at all. I've tried it for several days irl during those times in the game. She. Just. Won't. Appear! I hate her.

[glass adder]

Maybe it's bugged

[lament stump]

It is

[hollow dove]

really she is alive? YEY

[sour wasp]

When I did it, I had finished building the bird for the general. I left, did some stuff, came back, repeated until it worked. It took a while as it's a RNG thing and if you don't hit the RNG it locks for half an hour. She showed up in evening for me when it did work. Its possible F1 Q&A has more info on it, though it can be iffy.

[ocean vigil]

no way big zhao is actually the ?!!1

no way man all the people who scammed and help us are all important figures

[fleet maple]

Yeah, it’s great if u dont know history so u dont know who big zhao is at first

[rare fjord]

accidentally kidnapped and taken to the ghostlight market and managed to teleport out; then I got to the part of the main campaign where I have to go to thee ghostlight market. did I ruin the narrative? 😂

[ocean vigil]

but damn

ember of the east is a girl? zamn 😳

[rustic valve]

not at all

you can get it there through the coffin the normal way, be kidnapped, or through mainquest

so you didnt ruin anything. There are just THAT many ways to get there

[rare fjord]

I suppose so

It was jarring that I wish the MC would've said "oh yeah I actually been there" when big Zhao brought it up

[lament stump]

Really? Has it ever been mentioned that Yi Dao has a kid? Just because they have the same sounding surnames does not mean they're related.

[wispy zinc]

Anyone else unable to get attached to Little Fu because of Ruby?

[fleet maple]

That's normal

[vestal fable]

Rate triplets are what Ruby would've been with training and less stupid adults around. Basically the same.

[narrow zealot]

Hey guys, what's up with the 4 secret basements in Kaifeng City? I went into the last one and after examining the clues I could only read something about "red robes, riverside.." and then it was gone too fast. Anyone completed this thing? Edit: didn't see I could scroll to the right.. I can see the next clue

[rare fjord]

legit felt like Little Fu and Big Zhao are like the dev's way of saying "sorry we took your big bro and lil sis, here's another set for you"

[vestal fable]

Both are so unreliable tho 💀

[wispy zinc]

That's so real lol. I gotta be honest, I felt like big bro had his story told and was a hero, I understand Ruby died a hero, but she had her whole life ahead of her and so many plans. I guess that's life tho.

[rare fjord]

i take that back, screw little fu lmao

[faint harness]

HAHA😂

[verbal nimbus]

she gave us a gift after finishing the chain quest 🥺

[pastel acorn]

Wasn't the lunar godess supposed to be healed by Unc Tian or something? Could we maybe bring her to Unc?

[lament stump]

I still can't access the Roaring Sands despite breaking through to lv 56. Is there any news on when this location going to open?

[heavy bison]

Yeah would like to know aswell

[neat lily]

So in the chinese version of where winds meet, it was unlocked in patch 1.2 and based upon the patch notes here in the discord.. 1.2 (if the versions stay the same) will be jan 9th

[lament stump]

Ugh, why can’t they release it early? I’m really bummed that we’re always one year behind in content compared to the CN server.

[neat lily]

weird thing is the original 1.2 not only added north kaifeng but also the fat man boss.. which.. we already got so idk if they even know what they are doin

[lament stump]

I've asked customer service they haven't answered yet...

[native warren]

I'm prolly missing on some story details, but I don't seem to see Widow Zhou at the end of Kaifeng chapter.
Where did she end up or what's her fate at the end of the story?

[fleet maple]

Someone said her kid died and she lost her mind

[pastel acorn]

Where weepers meet

[verbal nimbus]

that quest in Sorrowfield Village with Zheng E is pretty awesome too

[pastel acorn]

Going to it right now

[rare fjord]

everyone in kaifeng just be lying left and right, disguises here and there lmao

good to know the disguise service is not reserved for player only

[verbal nimbus]

it tells you more of his motives of why he tried to mess up the granary

and what happened sorrowfield village

[pastel acorn]

consumed by hatred he lost the last one he has a connection with

but we are getting more and more into fantasy now as that boss grows roots, or was it ice? like it seems like he is preserving his ruby

[vestal fable]

She's heard coaxing a baby when Fu goes around for getting singers. Can't be sure about the state of that "baby" tho. Knowing the writers I'd lean towards dead.

[stray wedge]

I... I just caught up with the MSQ, wow

Qinghe was already pretty bold, but Kaifeng was so awesome

[fleet maple]

Apparently Kaifeng is one of the lowest rated arcs in the CN server, they didnt like this arc much

[rare fjord]

I wanna ask how so but I'm worried about spoilers 😂

[fleet maple]

This channel is all spoilers man you shouldn't touch this after u completed the story

[rare fjord]

I know I just want to keep up 🤣

[lament stump]

Well I do think Qinghe is better than Kaifeng

[fleet maple]

Just putting it out there cause if this is the lowest rated arc then the next ones are gonna be bangers

[dense dove]

I know it's not much of a spoiler discussion, but I have to share an important story point for me.

Idk why but Lord Shi||t|| is so weirdly unnappealing and weird, almost like uncanny valley feeling. It always bothered me so much when I saw it. Even in cutscenes so I think it's not the texture but it's just how he looks. He looks like Chinese Hagrid in 4K ™. I couldnt even fight him seriously as a boss because of this.

[tight zenith]

can't post this in the general chat so I'll just leave this here

[wary sluice]

🎦

[lament stump]

His brother looks better lol

[lament stump]

What's that?

[verbal nimbus]

that whole area with the Hirata Estate burning village reminded me of Sekiro

[wary sluice]

the melody you learn from the guy at the end is probably my second favourite so far

[grizzled temple]

Ye, I agree

[fleet maple]

Are we really sharing the nights with all of the celebrities of velvet shade lol

Young master got the rizz

[lament stump]

I finally got Soaring Eagle quest!!!!! Nice.

Sadly, now I got glitches too. Is it just me or after the dec 1 update there are visual glitches? Like the ground and walls disappearing. The npcs taking longer to load especially in kaifeng...

[fleet maple]

Might be ram

[lament stump]

I've 32... And this is recent issues...

[lament stump]

I don't think so? At least I doubt it will be approved by CCP... I mean I guess this is just my asexualness speaking but they could just be talking :v

[fleet maple]

Yes yes, we were just talking, nothing to see here CCP officer

[stray wedge]

Eh, game started feeling a lot heavier to me since yesterday, too. Maybe it's just because I'm on a different network, but I'll keep an eye on it throughout the week

[rose turret]

What the crap? They randomly killed off that one rude lady from the start of One Leaf, One Life offscreen without telling us until we find some people gossiping about her widower? DX

That was confusing.

[fleet maple]

Yeah that felt pretty bad, she couldnt even make it to the banquet. Illness during the medieval sure was rough

[light tinsel]

so after today, we knew why there is a burned building in the south of the map

[vivid kraken]

I hope it’s the ace speaking 😭 we are 16

Too young to be consorting with the ladies in the night

[slow birch]

where is the mysterious place in jadewood court?

[pastel acorn]

Heavenly rizz

[polar island]

I'm lowkey confused, is Ember of the east yingying?

[faint harness]

Yes!

[vocal summit]

Yidao 😭😭

[dawn terrace]

Yeah she explains everything at the end

[polar island]

Yeah I forgot to go back to granny turtle's house at the end lol

[dawn terrace]

[dull ravine]

Ok I must have missed something in chapter 1, can someone remind me why we are going to Kaifeng to find this Wuque (or Ember of The East) guy again?

[celest cargo]

Kaifeng is so beautiful

[pastel acorn]

Look at your mail, if there is a letter to aunt Han you can read it, if not I'll send it to you

[lament stump]

Though if the mc was sleeping with the velvet shades members in the cards the doesn't that mean he's bi?

[worldly shell]

How to complete the fireworks quest? I've been trying for hours to figure out where to get these 99 fireworks

Please help me

I'll be struggling for a long time, and I can't find anything on the internet.

[pastel acorn]

It's up to the player I think

[vocal summit]

he knows Aunt Han

[fiery fern]

is the guy that returned her dad or did she get played again

[fiery fern]

pretty sure its a she tho

[verbal nimbus]

think thats her dad. Her sense of hearing is on point. If you visit her at certain times, she will know its you because of the sound you make when you walk

[vivid kraken]

theyve got to be if they introduce romance options, given we can be male or female

and we can form a partnership with anyone

[devout crystal]

So what is the point of the new area in kaifeng in 9 days if there's no more story to be done in kaifeng (outside oddities and a few chest)

[vivid kraken]

probably a new side quest

[devout crystal]

True, hopefully they release the new region soon so we get more to explore and do i can't believe the main quest wrapped up this early. My guess is Weiyang will be next since they talked alot about it in the last mission

[vivid kraken]

yeah, probably a new lvl cap and side quest/outpost thing, mobile drop in the next two weeks, and then something for the holidays

new quest come next spring/later winter

[fleet maple]

It's Hexi in season 2

[devout crystal]

Oh okay thanks

[blissful mica]

Ngl, Ju Dao may be the hardest boss in the game atm

[fleet maple]

Who is Ju Dao

[blissful mica]

Mb meant Yi Dao

[fiery fern]

didnt they say her dad is dead and to hide that away from her

[fiery fern]

there isnt weiyang area even in cn version

[fleet maple]

No he's alive

He would have been dead but since we saved the doctor from the hooligans, he was able to treat him in time

[devout crystal]

Really? I saw this road map the other day and figured they had it.

[fiery fern]

is weiyang area in the room with us?

[versed vault]

HAHAHAHAHAH

[vocal summit]

shhhhh its spoiler

[lament stump]

Is it confirmed that Raging Sands is going to open at lv 61?

[tight zenith]

foreshadowing of our current currency lol\

[versed vault]

yes

[lament stump]

Where did you get this info?

[versed vault]

based off cn timeline, roaring sands unlocks during the next breakthrough

up to you if you want to believe or not lol

[mental vigil]

Was very random took me a good minute to realise who she even was who died

[verbal nimbus]

here's how good her hearing is. She also remembers her way back home based on the noise surrounding her. She is a smart and strong little one

also she's adorable wish we can adopt her 🥺

[wicked forum]

So, does anyone know when will we have new main quest ?

[waxen grotto]

what is weiyang? is it a city or a term

[mental vigil]

It’s large area I think like qinghe

[lament stump]

In 3 months?

That's what I heard. We'll get small updates in between.

[faint harness]

It’s a city!

[wispy zinc]

I haven't finished the blind girl quest yet, but this is probably one of the most satisfying quest lines in a game I've ever played.

I love the leaf design of completing all sorts of things to clean up the streets and make it safe for kids again.

I sometimes can't believe this is a free game.

[unkempt python]

Yall know if big zhao has a bigger play within the newer regions and qeusts other than Kaifeng? Also yall he did say he knew Jiang or smth like that when we first meet him so im curious what their relationship is?

[faint harness]

Its amazing! I hope for more quests like that in the future!

[fleet maple]

They probably knew each other from when Big Zhao was still a general in the army

[wispy zinc]

There might be a confirmation somewhere, but I love the character trope of a former adventurer who found himself leading a city but still sneaks out to engage with the common folk. Read a book that kind of had that, Kings of the Wyld, and I fell in love with that vibe.

[fleet maple]

Jiang is adopted son of wang qing, a general after all

[devout crystal]

I have no idea the only thing i know (or thought i knew) was that we would eventually get everything in this road map

[unreal brook]

Man oh man oh man

At first ||i thought they were gonna the new kid. Lo and behold now theres 3 of those rascals||

In that mission where we got drugged by the incense ||was one of the ladies in the end aunt han?||

[unreal brook]

I know thats probably a real general's name, but ive been making so many jokes

[round plinth]

no, she wasnt there

[pastel acorn]

And we are also adopted, generational adoption

[unreal brook]

These face models are confusing me out. And im a full blown asian

[fringe pagoda]

I knew I couldnt trust Big Jerk he was way too happy to sneak off all the time

[lament stump]

Nah I'm also asian. Unfortunately the game suffers the same problem many asian games have which is copy pasting the ideal female face turning them into mass produced dolls.

The males are a bit better with more facial features and you know... beards... Even though I detest them.

Honestly for female characters just pay more attention to their clothes to distinguish them.

[tight zenith]

the Yellow Emperor is overused in Wuxia games that I'm practically confused lol last I saw him being portrayed is in Gujian 3 but I did saw a glimpse of him being mentioned in this game

[vivid kraken]

I do think they get better at it in arc 2 (me coping) the velvet shade leaders and yingying are all very classically pretty but at least they are distinctive . ngl murong yuan, qianye and auntie han got me squinting to figure out who's who

[lament stump]

Based on what I saw from CN trailers they actually went harder on those pretty girls look. Like they abandon the somewhat realistic style and turn up the cartoon by making everyone eyes bigger bruh.

I'm so disappointed

Like aunt han is already too pretty for her age. But those upcoming girls are more like dolls than humans.

[vivid kraken]

i guess they can't help it, girls like pretty girls and guys like pretty girls too

[vivid kraken]

tbh aunt hans is like what mid 30s? mid 30s women are so so pretty

[lament stump]

They're butchering the MC with those big bug like eyes!

[vivid kraken]

like her face is a little too smooth but

[lament stump]

It's the jaws man. They're way to narrow and sharp that I wonder if they have one at all.

[vivid kraken]

ive seen well kept mid 30s rich ladies look like that

[lament stump]

Reminds me of anime jaws

[vivid kraken]

they do kinda have the plastic surgery face....give these girls a jaw

[lament stump]

At least aunt han has realistic face shapes

[vivid kraken]

maybe aunt han got to the later girls

water lady is just ancient plastic surgery

i stick by it

velvet shade girls go to korea for 3 months to get a little bit of that waterlady vacation yanno what i mean

[lament stump]

I'm just bummed that they're trying to copy 3d donghua style over realism

[vivid kraken]

at least we have pretty men so it is equality ? 🥺

[tight zenith]

meh, I see them regularly

[vivid kraken]

like girly def takes care of herself and probably got a little work done when shes younger and never sees the sun but thats just the average rich mid 30s lady tbh

[lament stump]

My hope is that this over stylized version is limited to prerendered cutscenes and the in game model still looks cohesive with the current released characters

[tight zenith]

gujian 3 really did it for me, that game is just chef's kiss

similar to this one but different

ancient figures also checks out, it's typical for different wuxia games to be within the same radar

[vivid kraken]

thats fair. it would be a little weird to have everyone like that. hopefully they limit it to just 'jianghu pretty girls/boys' like high cultivators or velvet shade members since they are a little more 'supernatural'. its nice to see people outside of jianghu like widow zhou and granny turtle still looking pretty worn down (tho it was super wierd to see very well kept pale af npc girls in like the slum lmao like why are you here girl your hands have never seen labour)

[lament stump]

I'm fine with the current art direction. What I'm worried about is the future art direction where they're trying to copy anime with their big eyes.

[vivid kraken]

the final fantasy face?

don't want people to look like sephiroh

[lament stump]

Worse i would say

[vivid kraken]

wait send pic

before i pass judgement

[lament stump]

Very sharps jaws. It's not so bad but like you can see the that they're slowly making the eyes bigger. Hopefully it stops at this point. Or Idk maybe i'm just hallucinating here...

I can see like 10-20% increase?

[tight zenith]

it is modern chinese aesthetics I think, beauty trend tend to change in china. they even got facelift tape to make your jaw thinner and sharper

[vivid kraken]

oh that is pretty sharp, i would say tho i think it veers the other end for me where im like 'girly's skinny/ have a sharp bone structure' and thats a face quirk for her. do others look like that or is it just her?

[lament stump]

I just feel like they're inching toward anime/cartoon and less realism okay... I know that it's beauty trend there. I'm still bummed about it.

[vivid kraken]

i dont think its really cartoon but its just she is particularly sharp faced, since i feel like her face is narrow enough that she had fallen back out of beauty standards if that makes sense

[lament stump]

Geez I thought YouTube links are fine now

[vivid kraken]

like i feel like china likes a sharp face but doesnt 'look' sharp

[lament stump]

Yeah I'm just hoping they're not going to change the artstyle again. I just prefer the og WWM style more that you see in launch trailer. Like you can feel the subtle difference when comparing the launch trailer to Hexi trailers.

[vivid kraken]

hopefully its just her

[lament stump]

I sent you the link to the trailer if you wanna check it out.

[vivid kraken]

hmm i think you are right that the trailer for some reason gives cartoon vibes

and like seeing the girl in motion idk

its a little strange

tbh i think its more her movements and the way she is like

super fast and jerky but her eyes doesnt focus on anything ?

with the half smile?

[round plinth]

aunt han also has water lady powers and its shown ingame canonically that it can make an old person look young

[vivid kraken]

tbh i dont even think its her model that does it cuz its strangely cartoon with the old man too

[round plinth]

I imagine she would preserve her youth because why not

[vivid kraken]

she's only like 30s 😭 maybe early 40s

why yall acting like shes a geriatric

[round plinth]

but yeah even late 30s women can look like that

that plus stylized game, its perfectly permissible

[lament stump]

I mean I guess I'm comparing her to Jiang Yan who looks like a hobo with his beard. XD

Is he younger or older than her?

[vivid kraken]

no i mean she is still pretty young who yall acting like she's like wrinkly alreadyyy

[vivid kraken]

they are around the same age

[round plinth]

we got a picture of hobo Jiang yan? I wanna see

[vivid kraken]

😭 just because that man doesnt take care of himself you gotta drag the girlies down too?

[lament stump]

Image from the Hexi cutscene. It looks like my fears were unfounded. For now...

[lament stump]

Remove the beard Jiang Yan! That's an order!

[round plinth]

I WANNA SEE HOBO JIANG YAN

[lament stump]

I DON'T!

[covert hazel]

You guys know Aunt Han can make herself as young as she wants right? ||Doctor Tian is a woman||

[vivid kraken]

we are like 16 and auntie han /uncle jiang was like early 20s when they got us? shes like 36 ish

shes like around the same age as taylor swift 😭

shes not old

[round plinth]

LET ME SEE HIM YOU BEGUILER

[glass adder]

She can make it. Damn that woman can be anyone she wants

[round plinth]

bring Chen Zixi back NOW Devs

[vivid kraken]

im beating yall over the head for calling mid 30s women old they are normal aged what is this ageism

[lament stump]

Well my argument isn't how old Aunt Han is... I'm just having a breakdown out of fear that WWM is going to change their artstyle to become more cartoony...

[round plinth]

its cuz the MC is 16/17

[lament stump]

Maybe when we visit Jiangnan? XD

[round plinth]

they better

[vivid kraken]

i think the movements and the trailer is really cartoony tbh but i don't think the character models are

like the trailer gave nezha vibes

[lament stump]

I guess i'm just tired of hoyoverse artstyles...

[vivid kraken]

also where is bearded uncle jiang

[vivid kraken]

fair enough

[round plinth]

youd imagine someone adopting a kid who has had already the experience they have had would be somewhat in their 20s, even if she was like 22 when she met MC then she would turn out being at minimum 38 and when everyone who is not an old lady looks basically attractive and young people have a hard time perceiving age

its not that 30-40 is old its just there is very little visual difference

Anyway bearded hobo uncle Jiang NOW

[vivid kraken]

tbf i think people tend to percieve themselves as MC too and it's hard to imagine one's mom figure to be hot/young

like ive seen pics of my mom when she's my age but i can't mentally accept she is like out clubbing like I am cuz like, she's my mom

moms are old and frumpy

other people's moms are great and hot but not mine

even if she is yanno

[round plinth]

if no one is gonna give me the deets then ill just accept this as canon Uncle Jiang

[vivid kraken]

why is he looking so 👀

[round plinth]

listen he been through some stuff he a little 👀 now

[vivid kraken]

😏 man's giving

[round plinth]

"Uncle Ji-ji's back kiddooooo"

[vivid kraken]

nooooooo

[round plinth]

kekekekek

[arctic lodge]

are there story or quests consequences when i kill Lord Xiao the human smuggling rat?

[vivid kraken]

hot take: people only percieve uncle jiang as hot because he is a deadbeat (last time we see him he was in his 20s) and we don't see him as true dad

[vivid kraken]

not that we know of, kill him

[arctic lodge]

love to hear, thanks

[round plinth]

based on the fact that this guy is his age and what we can see from his face is still young, im betting uncle jiang hasnt aged a bit in terms of his model

[round plinth]

I think Uncle Jiang's character is conventionally an attractive dude its not just that he is dead beat

even if he was a great dad people would still thirst

it would just be even weirder LOL

I mean people thirst for Aunt Han and she raised our MC directly

[vivid kraken]

i mean we don't see him when he's 40 tho, what if he is just like, true uncle looking

like big zhao

[round plinth]

We see him in the beginning of the game but his mask covers his face

[lament stump]

I reject bearded uncle jiang

[round plinth]

but CN says its visibly him

I dont think he is uncle looking I think the devs know to fan service

[lament stump]

We also met him in dream blissful retreat

[round plinth]

I didnt complete that

did he look young?

[vivid kraken]

nooo when will uncle jiang squat in sandles and play chess in a white tank top shorts combo with us

[round plinth]

cuz 3 years ago is recent, Mc probably has recent memories

I found this

😂 😂 😂

[vivid kraken]

if uncle jiang doesn't look like this I don't want him

[lament stump]

He has a beard

[round plinth]

I WANNA SEE

[vivid kraken]

oh i remember the dude, didnt see his face tho

[lament stump]

I only acknowledge two characters looking good with a beard: obi wan and geralt

[vivid kraken]

too busy with him kicking my butt

[round plinth]

Honestly this statement is so true it might just complete philosophy

like that's it that's what was missin

[lament stump]

Check the sword near a tree next to the tower at blissful retreat

[round plinth]

if uncy ji-ji doesnt have a beard I swear

[vivid kraken]

Aiyo remember to send pic after

We all need hot bearded uncle

[summer crescent]

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that the Ember of the East we see in Velvet Shade and Yingying are the same person. They don't look remotely the same, at all.

...are they the same person?

[lament stump]

They look the same though. It's just the hair that changes color.

[summer crescent]

I'm either tripping or my mind is playing tricks on me. I'm looking at both the models and Yingying's pale/platinum-blonde, while "Wen Wuque's" whitish-blonde.

With Yingying's hair length, is it possible to tie up the majority of her hair into that bun and leave only a few strands to frame her face?

[fleet maple]

Tbf if they make them too similar the player could tell her apart, was supposed to be a secret after all

[summer crescent]

I don't know how to feel about it. Thought for a second there were 2 Wen Wuques and both of them are capable of using the Art of Weight.

[fleet maple]

That's what I thought too when I saw her first using it

[summer crescent]

The foreshadowing of Yingying having a life coin was good, but I expected the hair to at least be somewhat similar in shade.

I'm looking up some videos, and the Velvet Shade Wen Wuque's hair color is different from Yingying's hair reveal; the former looks bright white during some scenes.

[lament stump]

Could be the lighting

[fleet maple]

Yeah, it should have been white but who knows how her power works, maybe it changes according to different circumstances

[lament stump]

One at night the other at day

[summer crescent]

Damnit I can't send photos here?

[round plinth]

uncle does have a beard

[lament stump]

And I hate it

[summer crescent]

During the cinematic cutscenes, I can see them having a similar shade. But still, the length of the hair... that threw me off.

[lament stump]

Is it really that impossible to make a bun with Yingying long hair? I think it's enough.

[summer crescent]

Yingying's hair looks too long to have it looking like a short bun with only a short bang or two framing her face as "Wen Wuque", or I might just not be taking in the hair bun's volume.

[lament stump]

as for hair changing colors, it's weird but happen pretty often in wuxia stories.

[fleet maple]

Actually men tie their hair into buns alot too

And most of them have hair as long as yingying back in the days

So while it;s just a bun, the length is longer than u might think

[summer crescent]

I get that. I'm just trying to rationalize how Yingying and the Ember of the East in Velvet Shade are the same person.

[summer crescent]

I suppose it's a matter of "hair bun volume".

[fleet maple]

The only incostent part is the hair color

As for the different face models

Think of it as one with makeup, and one doesnt

[summer crescent]

Yingying's reveal against "Lord Shi", her hair looked like it was dipped in a pale version of Sunny De. Could be the lighting, because the Velvet Shade reveal the hair was immaculate with the golden-blonde color.

[summer crescent]

Yeah, there's that too.

[vivid kraken]

i think her reveal cutscene hair is just not good 😂 it kinda looked slapped on with the lighting

[summer crescent]

If I could post the picture of that reveal her I would.

Her hair during that scene looked like the texture pack hadn't finished rendering yet.

[vivid kraken]

it is a darker blonde than her ember of the east white tho but it might just be lighting

[vivid kraken]

ngl i thought she had a texture glitch for a second until she started talking about how shes the ember of the east

it connects with her forehead so strangely

[summer crescent]

How the hell are you capable of posting pictures?

Is it the level up thing?

[vivid kraken]

if you are past lvl 5 you can post pics so just chat

yeah

[summer crescent]

Oh boy...

[fleet maple]

Keep yapping till ur high enough level

[vivid kraken]

its just to prevent spam from new people

[summer crescent]

Can you post her "Ember of the East" look alongside her Yingying look?

[vivid kraken]

it took me like 2 days of yapping to get to lvl 5

[summer crescent]

Because I still feel like I'm tripping. I knew the hint was there with Yingying tossing that life coin during the first one, but still, gotta compare to convince my brain.

[vivid kraken]

ember of the east vs Ying ying vs white hair ying ying

tbf i don't think her hair is actually as long as her black hair wig

[summer crescent]

Okay, definitely is the lighting.

[vivid kraken]

and her ember of the east makeup makes her eyes really sharp even though yingying is kinda defined by her big roundish eyes compared to other characters

[summer crescent]

That is some effective makeup.

[vivid kraken]

yeah her reveal scene hair is rough

shaders were all over the place

[summer crescent]

Also took note of the shape of the ears, sound of the voice, and the lips.

[pastel acorn]

If Superman can hide his identity with glasses, makeup is better

[summer crescent]

For the sake of those who'll come after us, I pray they fix that - alongside the localization and the VA work for EN.

[pastel acorn]

We can disguise our character in game with makeup

[summer crescent]

...damn, I've now been made a first-hand witness on how effective the "Superman disguise" really is.

[vivid kraken]

these two yingying pics are closer ig?

[summer crescent]

Still, they better fix the damn lighting, EN VA work, and even the expressions of our characters

Definitely is. The eye shape is somewhat similar now.

[vivid kraken]

i still think it doesnt help i thought ember of the east was a guy for like the longest time

[summer crescent]

Guilty as charged, my dude.

I thought "Oh, what an attractive pretty boy". Then it was Yingying the scammer...

[vivid kraken]

yingying got me with the otome hot men poses 😭

[summer crescent]

I still feel like I should cut a finger off her for fooling me with that scamming bullsh**

[vivid kraken]

also! in my defense the ember of the east is introduced as gongzi which is young master (usually masculine) 😭

[summer crescent]

Which is effective.

[vivid kraken]

forgot we also get called young master 😭

[summer crescent]

iirc, she was the one who bought the Parting Tears.

So I guess all's well ends well... and I still want my bloody getback for her scamming me

[vivid kraken]

she doesnt even give it back!

she's just like 'ill keep it for your friendship" like girl??? that wasnt a gift you stole from me

[round plinth]

we should be called young miss if we are girls 😤

[fleet maple]

I thought ember of the east is one of those femboys I keep hearing about, but color me surprise

[summer crescent]

It's cutscenes like defeating Lord Shi that convince me that our character is just holding back.

[summer crescent]

...you know... I was actually expecting that to be the case.

[vivid kraken]

tbf i think it's more like a landed/official title. i'd start throwing hands if guys get young master and i get called lil missy

[fleet maple]

Didnt she already give the wine to velvet shade though

[vivid kraken]

i don't think thats even fully us tbh since im pretty sure we blacked out before the gongshifachai

[lament stump]

I think we're getting it back when we wrap up Kaifeng. Don't we need it to show it to the head of Velvet Sect?

[summer crescent]

I'm pretty sure it is us, given how we're dressed up in the story-mode robe and the default hairstyle.

[round plinth]

shàoninai wouldnt be bad either, its like gōngz

[lament stump]

I remember there's still that one scene where we face off against that pretty guy in green robe and red umbrella

It's also definitely on the furance area?

[summer crescent]

...I'm sorry what? Face off against a pretty guy in green robe and red umbrella?

[pastel acorn]

"Welcome back lil missy, your aunt Han is looking for you"

[lament stump]

In the trailer

[summer crescent]

"I'll head on over - right after I tear you a new one."

[summer crescent]

I... do not know that.

[lament stump]

He shows up in launch trailer :v

[summer crescent]

On an unrelated note - how do you disable the cinematic camera for the Meteor Flight stuff?

[summer crescent]

I haven't watched the trailer.

[lament stump]

It's on setting can't remember where

[summer crescent]

I saw "Oooh, cool game", then I went "Oh, I'm getting addicted", then I devolved into "One more hour... just one. More. Hour..."

[summer crescent]

Found it.

[vivid kraken]

if someone called me 少奶奶 irl ill flip a table on them 😭 im not 奶奶 young or not

[round plinth]

how about gūniáng

[vivid kraken]

guniang is too young tho but im pretty sure aunt han and yi dao calls us guniang no?

[round plinth]

yeah I think so

[summer crescent]

...I don't speak that language so... what do those sets of characters mean?

[vivid kraken]

奶奶 means mistress of the house but generally means grandma nowadays (like 99% of the time it means grandma) 少 means young

they are just calling you lil granny

guniang means maiden

[summer crescent]

Oh.

[round plinth]

lil missy

[summer crescent]

You say flip the table? I'm breaking that fu**ing table over their head then using their bones to fashion a replacement.

Anyhow, do we know when's the next update for the story?

[round plinth]

ok ok then fine GONGZHU

[vivid kraken]

ill take that more

tbh i wish they can just call us guniang and have aunt han and yi dao call us yatou or something

[summer crescent]

Yatou?

[vivid kraken]

its like young girl but generally like a 'kid; version

[round plinth]

Yatou would be acceptable from them yeah

[vivid kraken]

like someone's child (girl) is running around

[summer crescent]

Yeah, it'd definitely fit for them to call the female MC Yatou. What's the male MC version?

[vivid kraken]

like you reserve it usually for sub 10 yr old kids (like ruby) but aunt han and yi dao def sees us as a tall toddler lol

[vivid kraken]

and guniang isn't like unacceptable for a 16 yr old girl too tbh

from yidao? 臭小子 😂 @summer crescent

[pastel acorn]

How about maidenless?

[summer crescent]

...which is...?

[vivid kraken]

stinky lil kid 😂 or like naughty kid

[summer crescent]

How do you pronounce that?

[lament stump]

Though isn't 少东家 can be considered gender neutral even if it's slightly masculine leaning?

[vivid kraken]

chòu xiǎo zi

[round plinth]

I thought it was shao dong jia

[round plinth]

this

[summer crescent]

I can definitely see Yi Dao just tossing that around without a care in the world.

[round plinth]

or do you mean this is chou xiao zi

[round plinth]

HA I BEAT THE CENSOR

[lament stump]

This is 少东家 = Shao Dong Jia

[round plinth]

yeah yeah thats what I thought

[lament stump]

Geez been a long time since I learned mandarin lmao

[lament stump]

stinky brat

[round plinth]

LMAO

noooooooooooo

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrate-gif-22469816

[vivid kraken]

aight but you know he is thinking it tho

[summer crescent]

How do you write/pronounce "scamming little b**ch" in Mandarin (it is Mandarin right? The language in WWM?)

[round plinth]

he's the one that is smelly uncle han takes good care of us

wait AUNT

UNCLE HAN

NOOOO

https://tenor.com/view/rick-grimes-twd-the-walking-dead-rick-grimes-coma-gif-1227282216097103455

[summer crescent]

I need to know how you write/pronounce this in Mandarin for a certain character...

[lament stump]

少东家很笨

[summer crescent]

Next time I see her I'm dropping that anvil-fast.

[summer crescent]

...this meant for me or...?

[lament stump]

No I'm just talking about the MC in generall because they're stupid idiot who got scammed and kidnapped a lot

Bro got kidnapped twice and scammed at least 4 times

Let's not include the side quest scams

[summer crescent]

...I was flabbergasted when the MC just lost his coin pouch to that damn hag.

[vivid kraken]

aight but we get scammed by famous scammers like the literal dao lord herself

its like getting scammed by the head of cia

like come on

[round plinth]

tbh im worried about her, i didnt see her get her kid back

[vivid kraken]

give us credit

[lament stump]

I think her kid died

[vivid kraken]

we are a 16 yr old suburb kid with a helicopter mom that just left home for the first time 😭 let us be a little dumb

[summer crescent]

I had some sympathies with her when I saw her taking her baby back to the Forsaken Quarter. When she stole Granny Turtle's "gold-making vessel" though, I felt my inner demons demanding her blood.

[summer crescent]

I sure hope not.

[round plinth]

yeah I was really frustrated, not enough to wish ill on her because she is a single impoverished mom but enough that its lik e "if you expect me to help you better kow tow like 10 times"

[vivid kraken]

no no we hear her singing to the kid in the 'granny gets everyone to sing' scene

[lament stump]

Let's hope they get wiser

[vivid kraken]

she is the second door

[lament stump]

Her arms are empty though?

[summer crescent]

...I... did not see her hold a baby...

[vivid kraken]

we are getting scammed by the head of scamming sect in china 😭

[summer crescent]

I feel like she was entering a stage of delirium at that point, but I'm still coping hoping.

[vivid kraken]

oh no i didnt check

oh no

OH NO

[summer crescent]

"give us credit" the hell you mean give us credit?

[lament stump]

I hate getting scammed so much that I beat up the Nine Mortal Ways recruiter near Harvestfall

[summer crescent]

Then again, in the story we're just wet around the ears... still doesn't explain how he lost his coin pouch to that woman during an opening scene in Kaifeng.

[lament stump]

plot

[summer crescent]

Ah, a fellow brethren.

[summer crescent]

...actually, where is this guy on the map? I need it for... reasons.

[vivid kraken]

this is our first time outside of qinghe 😭 we don't know the big city people

[summer crescent]

Yeah, which is why I added in #1425509033955164284 message

[lament stump]

Eh right outside the Harvestfall village. Like southwest side? They're standing near a tree with a treasure chest.

[vivid kraken]

i feel like even more than wet around the ears we actively have been sheltered tbh

since everyone in qinghe knows us as young master of heavens pier

[lament stump]

Blame aunt han we could've gone with Jiang Yan but nope she stopped us.

[vivid kraken]

so they are even less likely to scam us

[vivid kraken]

aunt han would be the type of parent that drives their kids the 15 min walk to school

picks them up immediately at 3:00pm

[summer crescent]

That's true... but then again, the side quests also show our cunning sometimes. I can't name a single specific one, but I feel like it has shown our cunning.

[lament stump]

The fact that you can't immediately recall says a lot

[lament stump]

geez that word gets censored it's not even curse word

[vivid kraken]

i think we are smart tbh i think we are just very trusting

like objectively we pick up things really well

[round plinth]

The MC is an idealistic person who tries to give people the benefit of the doubt and that makes sense because they literally havent been out of town where they know everyone yet

[vivid kraken]

we are just people dumb

[summer crescent]

Hey, don't blame me. I get sidetracked for 3 hours because this game has so much to do.

Don't get me started on those Wandering Tales quests. Now I remember a particular Wandering Tales quest involving Jieyu which got my blood boiling...

[lament stump]

The result of helicopter mom and emotionally stunted dad

[vivid kraken]

objectively we solve puzzles really well and pick up martial arts really fast and whatnot we just never encountered politics

not our fault we are going up against: head of spy sect 1 (pretty) head of spy sect 2 ( broke) and the fricking emperor

also a broke widow but we dont talk about that

[lament stump]

despite the fact they're canonically lazy and likes to slack off from martial arts training lol

[round plinth]

the broke widow thing was a fluke we dropped the bag in the middle of the beginning of a fight

[summer crescent]

Martial arts and puzzle-solving prodigy. A cripple when it comes to dealing with politics and people.

[summer crescent]

...I'm over here thinking: "...you're as quick as a bat out of hell. Chase AFTER HER."

[vivid kraken]

that means we are even more impressive! we are like the 'never study straight a ' kid

[round plinth]

You know, i think the MC is exactly as silly as their age tbh

teenagers are kinda

well

you know

[lament stump]

The mc would rather chase butterflies and geese than practice lol

[round plinth]

😂

[vivid kraken]

oh MC you would have been a great engineer

[summer crescent]

Man. I just realized how much story I've forgotten/missed out because of this game's sidequest...

I recall the scene of Jiang training us, but I don't remember the convo about the young master slacking off... unless that was part of the scene where we returned to B. Retreat only for angry Auntie to chew us out.

[vivid kraken]

aight but we are getting scammed by 3 6 yr olds in a rat costume 😭

literal kindergardeners running circles around us

[summer crescent]

From 3 gnomes in a suit, to 3 little sh**s in a rat costume.

[lament stump]

It's mentioned in the short stories in the character details on journal.

[round plinth]

those 6 year ol been on the streets their whole life we an upper middle class kid who just does martial arts and wine things all day

[vivid kraken]

their whole life like 4 whole years of it 😭

[summer crescent]

Those 6-year olds are the Dao Lord. I'm pretty sure that kid that we face off in the General's Shrine is canonically built different, too.

[round plinth]

THEY ARE OLDER THAN 6 TOO THEY ARE LIKE 8 OR 9 AT LEAST

[summer crescent]

IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER WHEN WE GOT OUR POCKETS LITERALLY RAN THROUGH BY THOSE MUNCHKINS!?

[round plinth]

Do we got their birthdays actually we can determine this

[vivid kraken]

tbh how old are they even

wait really?

they looked ruby height to me

[lament stump]

could be malnutrition

[summer crescent]

Wait, short stories? You mean by the: World > Character tab?

[round plinth]

ugh they dont give us years

[lament stump]

There are too many kids acting like adults

[summer crescent]

They might be around Ruby's age, actually.

[lament stump]

Ye

[vivid kraken]

malnutrition doesn't produce fighting skills like that 😭

[summer crescent]

...I swear man...

[vivid kraken]

ruby's like 6

[summer crescent]

The Jianghu makes you act different.

[round plinth]

I think those kids are 8 or 9

they act and talk like that age, ruby is definitely more baby than them

or sorry, was

😭

[vivid kraken]

but ruby was even more sheltered than us

[lament stump]

The triplets are from the hood

[summer crescent]

They act and talk like that age - until it's time for them to run them pockets.

...damnit man, seeing Ruby on the character stories reminded me how much I coped for 3 days that Ruby was still alive and that we'd meet her in Kaifeng.

[round plinth]

oh rewatching the cutscenes with yi dao it seems that he does call is xiaoyatou

if we are a girly bop

[vivid kraken]

they are like the same height as ruby im pretty sure

[pastel acorn]

Wasn't ruby supposed to be 10?

[fleet maple]

I also think the kids are 8-10 years old

[pastel acorn]

Has anyone tried to use ruby as a companion assist? I heard there were lines if you use her

[vivid kraken]

wait really? I have to rewatch

been so long and so many quests

[summer crescent]

Fu, Lu, and Shou are no older than 9... at least, from when they were taken out of the underground fighting arena.

Don't know how long it's been since they became the Dao Lord.

[round plinth]

I think here but its hard to hear

since they are fightin

omg I forgot the link thing

@vivid kraken its in the qianye fight cutscene

[vivid kraken]

wait can you dm me the link

i can only find the terrible english dub 😭

I can't put my poor ears through that more than i have to

[round plinth]

ill message you

I knooow when my wife said she would try the game I told her "whatever you do, dont choose english dub"

[vivid kraken]

damn i forgot how weak we were 😭

falling to our knees every 30 secs

[vivid kraken]

i didnt hear english dub until like, today and im shook by how bad it is

why does everyone sound so like, idk, product commercial

[round plinth]

Uncle Jiang "I am now an old detective from a noir" ahh voice

[vivid kraken]

everyone sounds so fakely young and then our 20 yr old uncle sounds like a 50yr old chainsmoker

[pastel acorn]

Because he probably is

And an alcoholic too

[round plinth]

it just amazes me that so many people play on eng dub despite it like HOW, HOW CAN YOUR EARS SURVIVE

ARE YOU SUPER HUMAN

[vivid kraken]

ruby sounds so fakeee

😭

[vivid kraken]

did they even have chain smoking back then

[mental vigil]

Ai maybe

[pastel acorn]

Probably got used to it due to bad translations of Manhwa and Manhua

[pastel acorn]

No other vices like video games back then, Alcohol and smoking seems like what Jiang would do

[vivid kraken]

alchohol i have no doubt since thats like water in the jianghu but surely it wouldn't mess his voice up that bad

[pastel acorn]

One of his favorite techniques is Katon

Surely that would do some damage to his lungs or throat

[round plinth]

I think that when the translation team was getting together and doing market research, they decided a silly thought that "the english voice for the baddass uncle jiang has to sound noticeably baddass to a western audience"

because it sounds like that was their intention

[summer crescent]

They nailed that part, for sure.

Problem is, the VFX work. Most of the voice acting doesn't sound... what, crisp and clean? It has like a "buzzing" after-effect, especially noticeable when our character speaks.

[pastel acorn]

In the prologue Jiang's kit is

Lion
Katon
Bamboo
Palm

[pastel acorn]

Sounds a bit like Ai generated doesn't it? Or recorded with a grounded mic

[vivid kraken]

also @round plinth im watching the cutscene and he calls us xiao nu zi but not ya tou i think

[round plinth]

ooooh so somewhat similar

[summer crescent]

Probably. Also, this game pretty much has AI voiceovers, which is why some of them feel... robotic and obviously AI. That's easy to forgive, so long as they fix the voice work and the sound quality.

[vivid kraken]

i don't think its the ai part tho its the base voice

the cn voice work has like a little more grit to it?

the english one is so bright

[summer crescent]

CN voice work is crisp and clean.

EN is... well, they need to fix that.

[pastel acorn]

The English voice of the MC sounds out of place like a bad recording

[summer crescent]

PRECISELY

[pastel acorn]

It feels like it does not belong

[summer crescent]

There's like a constant buzz to it. It's like it got slightly bit-crushed.

[vivid kraken]

yeah like cn work is soft when its supposed to be soft and high pitched when its supposed to but like english work is not 'jianghu' yanno

[pastel acorn]

It sounds to me like how a bad render would sound like, let's say a "pop in"

[vivid kraken]

english work feels like seeing an instagram face in a period film

if that makes sense

like its too high toned/nasally

[round plinth]

my suspicion is, they really just wanted to get what was absolutely necessary done for english translation, maybe they knew that plenty enough people might prefer the chinese dub (or they just thought the game was good enough to forgive bad EN voice acting which tbh IT IS)

[pastel acorn]

I experienced both Sub and Dub, honestly whole lot better in cn voice

[round plinth]

Yeah I love the CN voice

[vivid kraken]

i think they probably didnt expect people to play it with the english voice so much?

[vivid kraken]

hearing english ruby got me to understand ruby hate tbh

[pastel acorn]

Some people are too easily distracted to focus on subtitles

[vivid kraken]

cn ruby is so cute and en ruby just sounds like a bratty 20 yr old

[round plinth]

well some people in english speakin countries do insist like when I was a weeb, and I was like "time to talk to other weebs, hello fellow weebs" and they turn on their anime and suddenly ENGLISHHHH

im like

"what the heeelll"

[pastel acorn]

Both are alright honestly

[pastel acorn]

Newer anime I'd rather watch sub

[vivid kraken]

really? i feel like she doesnt have the child-likeness in her voice at all

its just a higher pitched adult voice

[pastel acorn]

But anime like 90's Rurouni kenshin and Inuyasha has good eng dub

[round plinth]

true inuyasha dub was solid

[pastel acorn]

There are some good Eng dub anime, but a lot of bad ones

Just like how there are good people in Kaifeng, but still a lot of bad ones

I still wish we could beat the younger Zhao's a*s 😂

[vivid kraken]

also rewatching the trailer and uh we are not beating the dummy allegations

[round plinth]

younger Zhao DOES deserve an aaah beating before his nerdy butt becomes emperor

[pastel acorn]

Would probably kill big Zhao

Or at least cause his death

[vivid kraken]

wait wrong screen grab but not aunt han explaining to our like 10 yr old self what a moon is

[pastel acorn]

Like big Zhao said "I did warn you" or something

[vivid kraken]

we don't know that yet 😭 mysterious circumstances maybe ai killed him

[pastel acorn]

Maybe, but that smol Zhao is sus

I have a few friends who are angry thst Big Zhao "lied" to us about identity

[vivid kraken]

thats like the average emperor past time in wuxia tho

[vivid kraken]

is it because he is pretty

too pretty boy so he must be sus

[pastel acorn]

Because he is with Lord Shi

[pastel acorn]

Yeah, and Big Zhao seems like a kind emperor

[vivid kraken]

i thought lord shi is just like an average official in government and little zhao does order him around (like the revelry tower). like wouldn't big zhao be the one that hired them anyways.

[round plinth]

little zhao thinks he is doing the right thing ultimately, and doesnt mind being the villain. haole, then get this boot up ur aa hole

little z

[pastel acorn]

The person actually handling Kaifeng is smol Zhao I think as he is the "Prefect"

Hiring will probably not be handled by the emperor, but Big Z probably just allowed his brother to handle things with a few hints and tips.

[vivid kraken]

yeah but big zhao is ultimately the one making decisions no? like how the dao lord is the figurehead but someone else is making the decisions. smol zhao is the dao lord

considering kaifeng is the imperial city

[round plinth]

if you open up his world entry, you can see that little zhao wants to prove himself and decides handling the inflation is his mark in history

big zhao gave that to him

[vivid kraken]

like i got the brothers had a difference in opinion and big zhao was like 'sure bro do it your way because i wanna train you' but ultimately its big zhao's call

[pastel acorn]

It is his call but as the older sibling, we let our siblings make their mistakes even knowing the consequences

[pastel acorn]

Basically too focused on proving himself he let the common folk suffer, or even caused that suffering

[vivid kraken]

i mean it makes sense because big zhao (historically too at the time) was training lil zhao to be his successor so he would give him more responsibility, but I don't think big zhao is really against what lil zhao is doing enough to step in, he even defends it on granny turtle's roof

[round plinth]

I think both of them wanted to believe that in the long-run, things would get better

and none of them could fully anticipate that Lord Shi would be the way he is

Lord Shi prior to being replaced was known to be a wise and generous and thoughtful man

it was that reputation that earned him the job