#Stamina Changes on Creative

27 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sleek flame
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A thing i have been noticing for a while with stamina, is how it's been overly punishing in some areas, but not nearly as punishing in others. It currently makes quite a few regular-ish height moves difficult, without being able to stop a lot of the very crabby runny stuff. Same goes to weapons, some movements with close hands take a lot less stamina than they realistically should, meanwhile what should take the least force to do(moving weapons with your hands far apart or moving light weapons with center of mass close to your hands) takes a lot more. For that i have two suggestions:

For arms

  • Make stamina depletion affected by how close the weapon's center of mass is to your hand(the closest hand to the center of mass in the case of two handing a weapon).
    A smooth gradient from what we currently have if the hand is far from the center of mass, and about half depletion if your hand is on the center of mass.

Optionally, having a bonus reduction in depletion for having your hands far apart would also help make more structured swings feel more natural and less tiring to perform.

This would still prevent crazy one handed big sword swinging, holding dane axes by the base and spinning them, and so on, without being overly punishing to the kind of movements that should take the least force to perform, like swinging a kilij or properly wielding a bardiche with your hands far enough apart.

For legs

  • Check the height on your hips when compared to your lowest point (likely your feet), and have the stamina use be related to it.
    A range from half depletion if you are at a standing height, to double depletion if your hips are near touching the ground.

This would much more naturally discourage crouch running, but still maintain crouching stances that dont move a lot as a viable defensive pose, as well as keep a more normal stance for most combat, as people would be standing more to take advantage of the better stamina.

fresh ice
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ok

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👍

dusty cypress
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I see no issues with this 👍

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It might make jumping harder, but it's already arguably too easy.

steel merlin
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For legs, I'd argue for more stamina consumption the greater the angle feet are from directly below the hips which is amplified by how far off the knees are from the line between the hip joint and foot. A crab with feet 90s from the hips and knees above the hips would suffer particularly heavily and positions for generating power would consume more stamina than positions for bracing

barren hedge
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the Stamina system does need some changes, and I agree with this one

fresh ice
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maybe it can make the move slower (as if it had extra milliseconds between keyframes)

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that sounds like a horrible idea actually

honest stone
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How about this?

image.png
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Trying to regulate movements simply because they are strong but look unnatural is a never-ending battle. It would require countless restrictions, further complicate the system, and only serve to drive away newcomers. In the end, we’d lose more and more freedom, and our creative motivation would be completely crushed.

Rather than restricting unnatural movements, we should go back to the fundamentals and seek a physics system where natural movements become stronger by design.

That’s exactly what I’ve been experimenting with in my mod (though it seems the latest version doesn’t function properly in many players’ environments). I’m envisioning a system where the physics engine includes HIP stamina — when a character takes an unbalanced posture and strain is placed on the hips, stamina is gradually consumed. I don’t plan on introducing stamina for any body part other than the hips.

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It is desirable to resolve this issue with a minimum of regulation and complexity.

covert plover
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If stamina costs are too finely tuned to center of mass, grip width, or hip height, casual players may feel punished or confused about the mechanics

sleek flame
covert plover
# sleek flame Casual players already are, a lot of servers already remove stamina because it d...

To curate specific range of fighting styles that are realistic, the stamina system is fundamentally ineffective for realism and relies on multiple controls that doesn't consider mechanics for each weapon. You can't have unarmed style wrestling if you're punished for having a lowered hip position to the floor. The gameplay isn't complex enough for these placements.

The only way weapon based fighting in video games will ever be realistic is if there's fine tuned weapon interactions and weight sim.

@honest stone's proposal of a hip based straining system makes sense, the hip reductively relates to the body's positions. , from that principle, adding multiple controls like artificial point of balances versus center of gravity makes sense. But if you would try to use those controls of point of balance with the current mechanics, simple stances like long guard or high guard are not near the center of mass but would take more stamina to employ actions from.

barren hedge
queen monolith
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Haven't run into a case where i ran out of stamina honestly. Tho my custom moveset is very stamina efficient.

covert plover
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improve combos: stamina regens faster if its over 50%
the issue of stamina efficient OP crabby movement yet generic movment inefficiency stamina drain: make hip a reductive sensor of tension to fine tune stamina drain

barren hedge
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Also I'm not sure if there is a way to check this trough code, and this is related to @sleek flame's suggestion.

Stamina Drain should also be affected by "Joint Work". If a joint is applying a lot of force (E.G: carrying a heavy Weapon or pushing something heavy like an enemy or a wall) it should drain way more stamina than a joint that is just swinging with no resistance (like someone using a dagger).

Modifying the stamina drain based on the Joint's Current Applied Force would fix most issues with stamina and balance things a lot

honest stone
honest stone
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Based on this principle, it’s possible to measure the force being applied. When swinging a weapon, large forces are exerted at the beginning and when stopping the swing, while during the actual motion, little force is applied as it follows inertia.

I believe this method could achieve a more realistic stamina consumption compared to the current creative mode.

It can be observed that heavier weapons use slightly more force, but the difference is minimal. Unless weapons are made significantly heavier overall, the impact of weight likely won’t be noticeable.

barren hedge
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I tried the mod and it seems to work really well. If this was used to calculate Stamina Drain it would most likely work wonders and no other changes would be needed

barren hedge
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@slender field Idk if Legatus is aware of this. I truly believe this could improve how Stamina works by a lot. Using the "Joint's Current Applied Force" seems like the way to go

slender field
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@magic lantern

barren hedge
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Assuming armor weight gets transferred to the body 😅