RANKED

[proper lotus]

I feel like we are getting too much random selection. Me and others would want to fight equal fighters not some noobs who just downloaded the game so i suggest that we would add Ranked gamemode and later competetive E-Sports events 🤡

[scarlet rain]

i do not think the game is built for a competitive scene

[proper lotus]

Why do you think that?

Its fighting game

Ofc its built for a competitive gameplay

[scarlet rain]

youll have to make your own animations and such

so a lot of prep work is required to play

as you have to animate for a while

and then of course testing the moveset over and over

a game like league for example is pretty much set in stone

theres no maybes and probablies

but this game has physics and i dont think that would work

[proper lotus]

What about rocket league?

You also have to learn moves

[scarlet rain]

yeah but you dont have to make them yourself

[proper lotus]

People are still figureing new things out

[scarlet rain]

here you both have to fight and create the moveset

[proper lotus]

Okay?

[scarlet rain]

also the mindset that this could be a competitive game makes me worry people will get toxic about it

[proper lotus]

Its like Motosport in real life
evryone has to create their own car and have a driver who is good at driving lol

[burnt oasis]

i feel like gladio can support a competitive scene, because its fairly consistent

there isnt a ton of luck when it comes to gameplay which leads to players being able to show their skill 1:1 towards each other without outside influence

[burnt oasis]

people already get toxic about it, the balance isnt exactly "good" for the demo

but a league would also let legionare know what needs to be fix as its abusable

[scarlet rain]

a ranked mode i think is good

[burnt oasis]

then a ranked mode will lead to a competitive league. such as smudgyo's tourney.

consistency of gameplay is what allows a game to be competitive

[scarlet rain]

smudgyos tournament was meant to be fun first

im worried a dedicated league leads to people playing to win

[burnt oasis]

is there an issue with that though?

i agree that competition will bring out the toxicity. but with most 3rd party leagues, toxicity is not tolerated

[tame gust]

The ranking system will also encourage players to win

[scarlet rain]

but the game isnt about winning is it

its there to have fun

[burnt oasis]

and some people find winning to be fun

the challenge of competition

[proper lotus]

Well you can still play with your friends?

if you want to just have fun

[scarlet rain]

yeah but im a mod

[proper lotus]

But i want dopamine from rekting other random players

[scarlet rain]

imma have to deal with the toxicity

[burnt oasis]

the toxicity is going to happen regardless, thats a human issue. not a game issue

[scarlet rain]

competitive games to me seem to be much more toxic than other games

[burnt oasis]

they CAN be. but again, it depends on the community

[proper lotus]

What is wrong with toxicyty?

[burnt oasis]

do you really need an answer to that...?

[scarlet rain]

the rules say to be nice to eachother

no being toxic

[burnt oasis]

i played a vr-shooter competitively for a good bit (was on the #7 team in the US).. toxicity does happen. but the community overall doesnt tolerate it and its punished via mandatory recording for competition

if a league were to organize, having players in seperate vc's or a moderated vc, with chat being monitored in game, toxicity can be handled

[proper lotus]

@scarlet rain we can remove crouhc button so people cant dbag and we can put option in menu that says ''Make chat invisible'' Or something like that

[scarlet rain]

theres no crouch button

youll animate your own stuff

if you animate a teabagging animation we cant stop you

you do bring up a good point though

there should be an option to hide chat

[tame gust]

for competitive games, especially ranked games, online should be big enough , Yes you are right, just many people want to play such games more seriously because the combat system in this game is interesting, so rank system would be good for playing with random people, still I think that rank is needed mainly for balance if the online will be good, in order not to lose it players would be good to start from the bottom, let's say I like to fight with strong opponents at once, so I don't care if I rank or not, I'll go to a server where I'll get my ass kicked by a claymore, but most people, especially in a game with this kind of combat, will want a level playing field and to keep both online and balance, rank would be good.

[scarlet rain]

ranked i support

i think its good

[burnt oasis]

if ranked it good, then the game can support a league. toxicity is unavoidable, but can still be minimized

[proper lotus]

Exactly

[digital crag]

There's no rank system being described. No.

[mystic siren]

Having ranked based on experience, rather than skill or some winstreak would be nice. Something like a total matches counter to then match with other people

It wouldn't be the most stable, but it does the job in a simpler way

MAYBE total wins INSTEAD but who knows

[digital crag]

Total wins, Total Kills. Total deaths. K/D. Matches won and lost. This is the ranking system that's common.

[burnt oasis]

a point system based around cause of death seems like a logical choice for a ranked system

it will help discourage cheese strats like bleeding your opponent and running away until they bleed out

[scarlet rain]

bleeding death may be considered boring but it is a valid strategy especially against heavily armored foes

[burnt oasis]

its valid, i agree. but if all deaths were scored equally...

1. how would you rule a draw

2. why would someone continue to fight if they bleed their opponent and have the mobility advantage if they could just get a free win from bleedout

a scoring system will encourage "targeted" combat, to keep the engagements interactive

[scarlet rain]

perhaps but if you fight armored opponents then you cant really get hits on their vitals

so youll only get bleedout kills

maybe spine hits on the neck

so you could be winning but still losing in points

[burnt oasis]

and thats the goal. its to encourage players to not give up just because their opponent may get more kills

you cant treat brain damage or heart damage as you would bleedout

[scarlet rain]

yeah but to treat different victories as different points wise kinda fucks with it

[burnt oasis]

not entirely

if you set, lets say 15 rounds. and you score points based of cause of death

its possible to win more rounds, but lose the "match". and thats by design

[scarlet rain]

yeah but then everyone would use armor to guard their vitals no?

[burnt oasis]

you want to encourage control and intent, not just wildly flailing, seeing a bleed and running

[burnt oasis]

perhaps, but until we see how armor plays. we really cant say if its THE meta. maybe just a meta for a weapon type

[scarlet rain]

any encouraging we do on our end would lead to an optimal playstyle

[burnt oasis]

with armor being a variable, your loadout points are going to be what balances "meta"

[proper lotus]

Well if ranked is with rounds ''like best of 3'' then draw would not give anyone round win

[burnt oasis]

thats also a possiblity, but it would also need to have a time cutoff. if you leave the scoreboard up, any player bleeding will eventually die

so people would be able to exploit that to force a draw and not lose the point. youd have to automate going to the rest round

[proper lotus]

But why are you getting hit anyways?

[burnt oasis]

if player 2 is bleeding, and they killed player 1.

player 1 (the host) could just wait until player 2 dies from bleedout to force a draw

[proper lotus]

but if there is ranked

then dedicated server is the host not the player

Server counts 5s after first player death

[burnt oasis]

which would require an automatic restart. as i said

[proper lotus]

And then its finished

[proper lotus]

Yeah

Well its not hard is it?

[burnt oasis]

idk, im not a dev. i just feel a point system would be more dynamic and give players more expression over how they end the fight

[scarlet rain]

yeah but it also enforces a playstyle

[burnt oasis]

elaborate how it would force a playstyle

[proper lotus]

What forces playstyle?

Automatic restart?

how so?

[scarlet rain]

if you bleed me to death 2 times and i vital hit you 2 times i win

even though we both killed the other twice

giving less points for bleed deaths is scuffed

[proper lotus]

Its best of 3

you cant kill eachother 2 times

[burnt oasis]

yeah you can lol

[scarlet rain]

random isnt proposing that

im fine with best of 3

[proper lotus]

How?

Draw isnt considerd winning round

Its like Paper-Rock-Cisor

[burnt oasis]

lets say its "first to 15 points"

with a dynamic point system, you have reasoning to attack different kill requirement

[scarlet rain]

yeah but you can just do best of 3 or 5

people will adjust to bleed and run setups

[proper lotus]

Yeah

Its much better than points

''fair''

[scarlet rain]

if bleed and run becomes common people will get better at countering it

[burnt oasis]

but what counterplay is there? chase them? thats not very interactive

[proper lotus]

Why do you even get hit to start bleeding 😁

[scarlet rain]

guard better

block parry riposte

[burnt oasis]

if your counterarguement is "skill issue". you dont have much to stand on

[scarlet rain]

but it is

people will adapt

[proper lotus]

Whole game is built on skill?

[burnt oasis]

if your opponent can cause you to bleed then run away (with augmented movement once move editor comes out). what can the bleeding player do

[proper lotus]

Its not pokker where its luck

[scarlet rain]

not get hit

like

[burnt oasis]

everyone gets hit

[scarlet rain]

yes

including the bleed runner

so then they are bleeding too

[burnt oasis]

possibly, possibly not

[scarlet rain]

yeah

thats part of the game

[burnt oasis]

lets say i run a reach weapon, get a single bleed on you. then just spend your bleedout time running away

what is your counterplay AFTER you start bleeding

[proper lotus]

Make arena smaller so that there is nowhere to run?
Currently map is built for 6 players

or even 8

lol

[scarlet rain]

id rather add the rule that not actively engaging the enemy takes away points

as in

hey you havent blocked moved towards the enemy or attacked them

[proper lotus]

Okay but how game would dectect who isnt engaging?

[scarlet rain]

it would not

this would require staff

[proper lotus]

Both would lose points then?

[proper lotus]

Isnt realistic then

[scarlet rain]

no

well

depends

if the system is automated then yes its unrealistic

but if its just done by people in their free time then it isnt

[burnt oasis]

the point system i envision handles that

you CAN take the easy bleed, but if its only worth 1 point, its going to take a while to get to the goal and win the match

[proper lotus]

Would you want to just watch how others play the game 😭

[scarlet rain]

yeah but its unecessary

bleed runners are a hypothetical and there is nothing to play for besides bragging rights

if you win by being a bleed runner noone will acknowledge your achievement

[proper lotus]

But they dont know how you play if we dont make stat cards

[burnt oasis]

bleed runners would still have their choice in fighting, but its not going to be as impactiful on a scoreboard as a head/heart shot

[scarlet rain]

stat cards?

[scarlet rain]

but a bleed runner cant win the tourney

if they bleed run every round and simultaneously another guy is headshotting each guy then the headshotter wins by default

you are effectively eliminating a play style

[proper lotus]

Yeah?
Statistics that show K/D, How you died, how you have gottent your 666 kills lol
Sorry my english is bad and i dont know how to express myself very good in english

[scarlet rain]

take your time

[burnt oasis]

join vc please, i feel we're misunderstanding each other

[proper lotus]

If either of you bothers, you could let us know what conclusion did you guys reach

[proper lotus]

Vital body kills*

Or something like that

[scarlet rain]

didnt really end up agreeing on anything i think

[tame gust]

@scarlet rain I thought, and in general it’s better not to add a ranking system, it needs to be replaced with something more original, well, I mean, more suitable for hardcore players but not losing newcomers, well, the most important thing is to do it so that people don’t see the ranked game button and more didn’t know that the game has this, it’s not necessary to make the game salty and competitive, or rather, it needs to be more refined so that it is not a sports game, but the spirit of swordsmen and fun remains, you can make a danger system for each player by keeping statistics of their not just winnings, but their mistakes in their skill, well, that is, there will be in-game statistics that will determine the level of danger and let the player choose which level he wants to fight with, add just a random game, and a game with these levels, maybe I just wrote what was written here, but my idea is in order to give the player freedom, that is, the player must choose how and where he will go and with whom he will fight, add a danger level only for a separate mode where you can select a person with a specific level so that the player chooses the difficulty according to his preferences, and in contrast to the rank, the danger level will always fall without wagering and for each of your deaths and not for a won round, my idea is to make a very strict system but not imposed like ranks and does not allow you to win back so that it exists only to retain hardcore or players who just want to have fun or beginners mode where you can choose for yourself which player you will mate with, it will probably be terrible to implement all this, there are a lot of holes, but I want to give the author an idea, how can we make a balance between a great indie game and retaining players

[mystic siren]

I clicked "go to present" and got paragraph jumpscared.

Occasional hosted tournaments here and there through the discord would be quite nice to do. I'll see to it that, at some point, we do another tournament before Full release drops.

I will just need to find a reasonable time since I got exams rn. Though, the whole concept of having a somewhat competitive scene that shines and then fades away in an almost wave-like manner would keep the game either fresh or just ensure that people don't CONSTANTLY hunt for the best combos/strats.

[celest cipher]

Yeah I think no ranked, but tournaments is better, more fun and less toxicity