Hello everyone! I’ve really been getting into the challenge moons lately, but I just can’t shake that at the back of my head the ingame leaderboard consist of like 75% cheaters after like 1000 credits. I saw a post in this channel mentioning a tab dedicated to challenge moons, and I think that would be a great place for a leaderboard of people’s best runs on the challenge moon (on vanilla, ofc.) People would submit videos of their runs to be verified to be placed on the leaderboard to sift through the cheaters. The addition would give even more motivation to grind out the challenge moons.
#Community-Made Leaderboard for Challenge Moons?
keen karma
feral whale
The only problem I can see with this is that it requires manual verification and we'd only have a week to get through all the submissions
I also think this would fall with my idea of #1189580441641037876
The only difference is, one is time limited
keen karma
The only problem I can see with this is that it requires manual verification and...
Not necessarily. We could leave it as an honors system for like 1000 quota runs and below. Then, the first 1-3 submissions from a person would have to be verified before they could be “trusted.” Getting 1000+ solo on a challenge moon is stupid difficult, so it would force people to actually do the run so they wouldn’t see cheating as “worth it.” For anyone still cheating after, we could rely on a report system or make top 100 submissions have to have video proof
keen karma
The only difference is, one is time limited
The leaderboards will be permanent. Then, a graph can be made showing a player’s percentile scored in the challenge moons they submitted in
feral whale
But also, how do we verify that it's not modded
feral whale
The leaderboards will be permanent. Then, a graph can be made showing a player’s...
Would we have to rotate channels every week for submissions?
Or leaderboards?
keen karma
Hm, I guess the idea is getting too big for a discord server
It would fit better with being a website, but those are difficult to make
feral whale
I feel like it's a good idea
But we don't have a way to automate it, and automating it is the problem that lets cheater through anyway
keen karma
I get that
feral whale
I feel like there could be some way to do it tho
waxen ingot
I feel like there could be some way to do it tho
Could make it where all leaderboard submissions must be streamed through twitch, youtube, or kick (with VODs enabled). In the event that someone is cheating either the community, or community staff, is bound to notice it. If something does go unnoticed, at the end of the day it is something to do for fun and get the community more involved with one another and if it resets weekly - will it really matter?
feral whale
I mean, I'm thinking of a way to keep old weekly leaderboards
I think that'd be cool
Wait a minute
@gleaming meteor Hey, you have the names for all the challenge moon for like, the rest of time, right?
gleaming meteor
the names and vanilla moon itll use
feral whale
You're such a W
Say someone that's really really bored (AKA Me) were to set up a submission sheet for the challenge moons, there'll be like a master copy that you just make a copy of for the new moon
thick spade
But also, how do we verify that it's not modded
the first rule of speedruns is that it has to start in the main menu, so you can see in the bottom left if its the modded client
feral whale
Okay
thick spade
that could also work here imo
feral whale
We got the logistics down now we just need the moderation problem
gleaming meteor
Say someone that's really really bored (AKA Me) were to set up a submission shee...
wdym exactly
gleaming meteor
feral whale
Even better
We just have the moderation issues now
I think we could just moderate the top 10 or smth
Like @keen karma pointed out
gleaming meteor
10 might be too few id maybe go for 20
or it could be 10 runs for 4 different categories of solo/duo/trio/full squad
which i think should be the case
feral whale
We'd need like a verification crew that isn't a part of the mod crew
Just like a group of 5-10 people that know a lot about the game
gleaming meteor
@ cornish
feral whale
I'll look into it and see what Max says
gleaming meteor
10 might be too few id maybe go for 20
i wonder if we should take 10 submissions at first then every subsequent submission would need to be a top 10 candidate (assuming we wouldnt be keeping a log of every run submission)
feral whale
@inland sail Lot of info but I think it's a really cool idea
feral whale
for a total of 100 assuming we split player counts
Yeah we'd split player counts
gleaming meteor
the issue with squads tho is that wed probably want a vod of every persons pov to make sure none of them are up to anything fishy.
meaning double/triple/quadruple the moderation workload
gleaming meteor
yeah but you could have one person with speed hacks or god mode not record and go fire exit, and disable it before coming back like nothing ever happened
wouldnt be impossible to do
feral whale
That's fair
Is there like a mod that tells you if anyone else in the lobby has mods on?
Idk how that would even work
thick spade
mod files can probably be rewritten and people could switch up the modded and the not modded state
so it gives you false info
feral whale
That's also true
Hold on
Ill be back, going to the speed cord
I'll ask them how they deal with multiple people in one run
inland sail
We're working on a mod to split vanilla & modded leaderboards, actually
gleaming meteor
how would you accomplish that
inland sail
how would you accomplish that
Mod magic 
Is open-source & will be published soon
Though it obviously requires users to use the mod
It should result in a far cleaner split between vanilla & modded, though.
waxen ingot
the first rule of speedruns is that it has to start in the main menu, so you can...
I use a few mods that do not change the main menu screen at all, some of which provide an advantage.
thick spade
then tell people to start the game through steam at the beginning of the vid or i dont know
waxen ingot
@feral whale @feral whale
Why not use a Lethal Company Mod Pack that will not only automatically display the statistics that a player manages to obtain within a game, but also keep a track record of all of the mods they have installed?
There is a mod already called LethalStats that keeps track of literally everything and has a match history report, all you would need to do is make or add to LethalStats to also make it display the user's client with potentially another Mod that just disintegrates other mods apart from itself and the presumed to be "LethalStats 2".
keen karma
the issue with squads tho is that wed probably want a vod of every persons pov t...
I was thinking abt this, maybe we should start it as solo and see how it goes
keen karma
We're working on a mod to split vanilla & modded leaderboards, actually
That sounds good, but maybe there could be something that rips the leaderboard onto a page that documents the past moons
But that’s a great start if you don’t want the history of the best moons
inland sail
<@562319439966634040> <@562319439966634040>
Why not use a Lethal Company Mod P...
There's nothing stopping a user from using a modified version of LethalStats, tbh. Though it's a decent suggestion.
keen karma
I made the post with the vision of having a history of past best quotas on the weekly challenges, and a unmodded leaderboard is a great start @inland sail
loud jackal
Guys just require videos and speedrun timer for the top scores
That's like
The only feasible way to moderate scores
You can't really automate moderation in this case
feral whale
Guys just require videos and speedrun timer for the top scores
That's easily worked around
feral whale
The only feasible way to moderate scores
Not really
loud jackal
how is it easily worked around
better than not having it though right?
would deter most people trying to fudge runs
feral whale
how is it easily worked around
Unless you're talking about every player recording
And a Speedrun Timer doesn't matter
loud jackal
Unless you're talking about every player recording
i am
its a lot harder to fake runs when you have an uncut recording of the entire thing
loud jackal
wdym yea? of course
now you cant just download mods and cheat 💀
you have to know how to splice videos
loud jackal
thats at least a step up from nothing
gleaming meteor
lethal company is next to impossible to splice.
feral whale
^
loud jackal
You technically can
most mods that would help you would be entirely too obvious though right?
feral whale
most mods that would help you would be entirely too obvious though right?
No
Not at all
feral whale
You can make speed not obvious
loud jackal
also of course it doesnt stop 100% of cheaters
gleaming meteor
not really. like i could make my sprint meter refill 5% faster and drop 5% slower and it would be pretty hard to tell. same goes for scrap value i could just be dream
loud jackal
its a suggestion to help deter
feral whale
not really. like i could make my sprint meter refill 5% faster and drop 5% slowe...
^
Scrap val is set tho
So maybe not that
gleaming meteor
like me and tom got two 90+ laser pointers on assurance in vanilla so rng is not the hardest thing to tweak
loud jackal
just have the video start when they launch the game, or make them show game files
idk
gleaming meteor
like me and tom got two 90+ laser pointers on assurance in vanilla so rng is not...
without it being immediately suspicious *
gleaming meteor
just have the video start when they launch the game, or make them show game file...
what configs. they shouldnt be having any
loud jackal
you know what i meant
feral whale
No, not really
gleaming meteor
or well like id imagine a mod like lethalstats would be allowed
gleaming meteor
me modding my steam version
feral whale
Lol
gleaming meteor
my steam version of the game has all the cheats i had when we spent 20 minutes getting coils stuck in the stairs
loud jackal
alright
so dont do anything then and have no community challenge leaderboard
problem solved!
feral whale
gleaming meteor
yay we should remove speedrunning
lets remove discord servers too so nobody has to be a moderator :D
loud jackal
yea we should just remove the entire speedrunning community website and servers since theres no way to 100% guarantee people arent cheating right?
OR
actually idk
what do you guys think
if my suggestions arent good then
gleaming meteor
yea we should just remove the entire discord website and servers since theres no way to 100% guarantee people arent breaking tos right?
gleaming meteor
me when i inspect element some randos dm and get them banned
loud jackal
me when i inspect element some randos dm and get them banned
😭
discord cares about dms?
feral whale
Max said he was working on something
^
gleaming meteor
discord cares about dms?
only when its against the law probably
gleaming meteor
Max said he was working on something
i meant from discord itself
you think they check to see if the message is real
loud jackal
probably
gleaming meteor
id say its a coin flip cause t&s will be t&s
feral whale
discord cares about dms?
Yeah someone sends me something illegal in dms
Discord: Sucks to suck
gleaming meteor
(ive had no update on the snackers situation btw)
loud jackal
i mean DMs are like a message-at-your-own-risk thing
gleaming meteor
yeah just like how the world is go-outside-at-your-own-risk (you WILL get mugged)
loud jackal
i just mean that if you start a DM with someone and they start saying racial slurs or something, you cant ban them for that since YOU technically agreed to message them
feral whale
That's like saying, getting threats called on your personal cell is a just-don't-pick-up
loud jackal
but it would be a diff story if it was actually illegal
loud jackal
k
gleaming meteor
i just mean that if you start a DM with someone and they start saying racial slu...
thats. not how it works at all
loud jackal
you still have to accept the dm request but anyways
inland sail
You don't have configs if no mods
Some mods don't have configs.
inland sail
Either way, Max said he's working on a mod for verification purposes
I wasn't. I am working on a mod to check what mods a server is running / ensure compatibility
feral whale
Some mods don't have configs.
Really?
feral whale
I didn't know not all of them had some sort of config options
inland sail
^
Oh, yeah. But that requires modders to hook into it
Malicious mods will still be able to circumvent that
feral whale
Oh, yeah. But that requires modders to hook into it
We just require it to be verified
rigid wraith
But also, how do we verify that it's not modded
U can make them download a mod that shows all ur active mods at the end of a run
That way u cant use cheat mods or cheats
rigid wraith
Idk go make one i geuss
inland sail
U can make them download a mod that shows all ur active mods at the end of a run
Can be circumvented
feral whale
There probably could be some way to verify it hasn't been tampered with
inland sail
There probably could be some way to verify it hasn't been tampered with
Nay. You can circumvent basically any way that mods can check
feral whale
Hm
inland sail
If not by writing a mod that patches the mod, you can use actual cheat tools such as cheat engine.
Etc
feral whale
So no real point in making one?
frozen fossil
You can put in mod detection, and it would lessen the amount of cheaters
but there's always a bypass
the kind of anti cheat that's even difficult to spoof would require some seriously invasive shit
The speedrun community has been fighting cheaters forever, and they've settled on having volunteers review videos, so that's probably the best way. You would only manually review the top 1000 or whatever as they get submitted
honestly it does seem like a job for a speedrunning website, not this discord
inland sail
The speedrun community has been fighting cheaters forever, and they've settled o...
Yeah, that's about the only thing you can do. Not to mention submitters would have to be a lot more rigorous in how they submit information.
I think it'd take a lot of the fun out of the more casual part of the leaderboard
And not moderating it strictly will cause frustration with the non-casual part
Bit of a lose-lose situation tbh
frozen fossil
the in game leaderboard still exists for casuals, so I don't think having a leaderboard for serious runners would be an issue