#ButteRyBalance

1 messages · Page 11 of 1

naive mesa
#

And also rooms are rarely large enough where the lower visibility would matter, save for like an unusually long mansion hallway. But at that point its rarely problematic

dense flicker
#

Right but mods are needed to make them tolerable

#

Im refering more to vanila

raven patrol
#

I would argue things like indoor fog and radar “no signal” ironically hurt the causal experience more than the sweaty one, sweaty players have strategies that can work in spite of these inconveniences while casuals are still taking everything in

dense flicker
#

Its me im the casual

raven patrol
#

The way I went about this in my modpack is adding items in the store that counter certain weathers. I have beacons that can be scanned from far away for foggy, a lighting rod for stormy, and the jetpack/cruiser negate flooded/rainy. This way weathers are much easier, but still not necessarily better than clear, not to mention you have to buy this stuff in the first place. I agree increased scrap in weather-affected moons is bad, good players will see foggy or rainy as just free money

dense flicker
#

But it incentivises

#

Either the player avoids it or you give them a reason to go

raven patrol
#

Does indoor fog work differently from outdoor fog and blizzards? I have used flashlights to try to increase my visibility on Rend or during foggy days, and its light just refracts and ends up hurting my vision more than helping. On blizzard moons my friends sometimes like to drive with the cruiser’s headlights turned off too, they think they see better with them off. I assumed indoor fog was the same

dense flicker
#

In reality bright lights and fog dont mix

raven patrol
# dense flicker Either the player avoids it or you give them a reason to go

I think weathers giving you a reason to go is against what they are meant to be though. If weathers were not a thing, I doubt players would go to any of the free moons besides Adamance and Assurance since it is well-known how profitable they are compared to the others. We are also different players, I am more sweaty while you are more casual. My friend group can probably exploit any balancing issues in a modpack much easier than yours, making things like this a bigger consideration for me

#

If increased scrap value works for you, by all means. It does not work for me though, in principle and practice

dense flicker
#

Well the problem is you are forced to go to other moons in high quota

#

Also referring to this

#

But it seems everyone has a differing opinion so there is no way to solve it

#

Without mods anyways lol

naive mesa
# dense flicker

I suppose weather can also act as a motivator not to go to the same moon lots of times.

Inevitably some moons will be better than others, so to stop people from constantly going to one or two moons which typically isnt fun, weather can motivate casual players to not go to certain moons and instead think about which one they want to visit with the options available.

#

That being said, it varies between groups how hard each weather is, so it isn’t just a definitive force out of going to moons.

#

I’m guessing that’s what the original intended part of weather was, alongside being a fun feature for variety.

analog cypress
#

My opinion, upgrades that counter weather doesn't work for weather balance at all, it just makes convenient spending money to avoid having hardships on any weather. The big problem is obviously players evading it because the game doesn't offer any reward by playing on it. I use MeteoMultiplier to increase the money slightly but it isn't the best solution... Probably the best solution would be an increase in the scrap quantity (like Mineshaft) but personalized, like +3 two handed items when Flooded moons, +3 conductive items when Stormy moons, +2 heavy items when Foggy, +1 item when Rainy...

#

But there isn't any mod that does something like that

signal stream
#

to be honest the best way is probably some form of outright restricting access to some moons at some times

dense flicker
#

That sounds even more unfun

#

Also that's basically what eclipsed does (at least for casual players)

signal stream
#

playing the same level over an over again sounds unfun

dense flicker
#

Well maybe the levels should be worth going to

#

Forcing players to go somewhere isnt the best option

#

And my group does spread things out and go to differentl levels all the time, but its no secret some levels are just straight up better

#

But we get the choice of doing so, which is my point

signal stream
#

bitta both would be a healthy solution imo

#

it's perfectly okay to take away some choice from the player

dense flicker
#

Weather makes players at least weigh options

#

At least with paid moons anyway

#

Malfunctions does it a good way since you can be forced to any moon

raven patrol
#

Either locking moons or giving diminishing returns with subsequent visits, kinda lame but it is the most effective solution. Ideally Zeekerss could just better balance the moons so they all have a (good) reason to be visited, but from my attempts to do so I know this is not easy

raven patrol
dense flicker
#

I really dont see how its the best way

#

Taking away player choice does nothing but piss off the player

#

Another way to look at it: why should the player be punished for the devs lack of balance

raven patrol
#

The best in that it will make players actually visit different moons. If there is a moon meta we all know a lot of players will be too stubborn to visit any others

dense flicker
#

Like i said

#

Its a dumb idea to punish the player because zeekers isnt trying to improve moons

#

Why not just make the other moons better instead?

raven patrol
#

I do agree with that, though I wish there was another endgame moon than just Artifice

#

Liquidation when

dense flicker
#

That I can agree with

raven patrol
#

Balancing the moons while keeping the currently implemented themes is also just very difficult. I think some moons like Rend and Offense need fundamental reworks to be brought in line with their contemporaries

#

Which makes the lore and “feel” of the moons suffer

dense flicker
#

Thats why I use rebalanced moons

#

Rend is fine imo

#

Dine is the one that needs work

#

March just needs better loot generation

raven patrol
#

Rebalanced moons no longer changes moon stats, just their exterior layouts

raven patrol
# dense flicker Rend is fine imo

Rend is lowkey busted for what it is, in v49 HQ it is considered better than Titan, and for solo it still is the meta for some today

dry current
#

It would be a very good way to bump those moons up

dense flicker
#

ehhhhhh not really

#

story sure, but people are gonna play it once and then go back to highest quota

raven patrol
#

Zeekerss adding an ending will change everything we have talked about a lot. Rather than h the current high-score setup, we only need to survive long enough to get the drill parts or whatever

#

It is a kinda shallow bandage fix though, I agree with Jarinex on that

#

We are here for the gameplay at this point, the ending will be old news after enough time, as crazy as it is to say

#

Instead of 0 visits per play through, Embrion will get 1, just for the drill part there

dense flicker
dry current
#

I think people only viewing moons for their total scrap yield is kind of a boring mindset

#

It's what's to be expected but it makes me think y'all play to win rather than to have fun ykno

#

I also think it's kind of disrespectful to not have faith in the dev cuz of one or two weird balance changes :P

#

Like you're playing his game, you know?

dense flicker
#

Yall really got riled up over that opinion jesus

raven patrol
#

We are used to the moons being just their scrap pools, but I think it is clear that Zeekerss does not intend for them to stay like that for the full release

signal stream
#

Best way to make hq players kill themselves

Make scrap spawns lower based on the amount of times youve visited

dry current
dense flicker
#

I mean, you put a clown emoji on me soooooo

#

what else am I supposed to think

dry current
dense flicker
#

All im saying is id prefer to have the ability to go for high scores and not be forced into a story

dry current
dense flicker
#

So I dont understand why yall have to insult me like that tbh

dry current
dense flicker
#

I wouldnt know cuz i Have no clue what wesleys journeys is

dry current
#

Then I have no idea where you got that idea from :P

signal stream
#

Saying it would ruin the game to add the natural, setup conclusion to it is stupid imo

dense flicker
#

Im not saying adding it woult ruin it

#

Im saying FORCING it

#

which like you said we dont know

#

I just assume the worse

signal stream
#

but why would it be forced

raven patrol
#

Adding drill parts to moons does not force you there

signal stream
#

Your getting mad over a nonexistent reason

dense flicker
#

Alright fair point

#

lets just drop it then

signal stream
#

I wonder if high quota players try to get max points in super Mario world

dense flicker
#

I mean, sure lmao

#

I did when I got bored as a kid

#

Its a bit different here since quota is important compared to points in mario world

raven patrol
#

Batby had this same discussion with me through a couple months ago, lol

#

I called the current setup of LC a high score game and it did not sit well

dense flicker
#

I mean....

#

Is it not>?

#

What other goal is there

signal stream
#

I disagree based on intent

raven patrol
#

It just will not hold up when an ending is added

signal stream
#

I believe the quota is a solution to ensuring players try, and overall a vessel to delivering the intended experience

dense flicker
#

Well... problem with that is its been out for nearly 2 years

#

at this point it has an identity

signal stream
#

But not to the extent where it demands bring minmaxed

dense flicker
#

like it or not, intentional or not, its currently about collecitng the scrap

raven patrol
signal stream
dense flicker
#

I mean tbf itll be fun to have another objective

analog cypress
#

wth is going on here 😭

raven patrol
#

Once an ending is added the game is no longer about the moment-to-moment

dry current
signal stream
dense flicker
#

I mean, im going to be honest, I couldnt give two rat behinds about the story

dry current
#

Like I think achieving the quota will be the vehicle for achieving the objective, not the objective itself

raven patrol
dense flicker
#

Id be curious to see how many are like me

#

who just play for the scrap

raven patrol
signal stream
raven patrol
#

Indeed, the ending is Zeekerss’ ultimate goal here

dense flicker
#

mmmm

#

im sure itll be...something?

raven patrol
#

Jeb turns out to be the giant neighbor from the hit game Hello Neighbor TM

analog cypress
#

Idk how to feel about an ending... I wish there was but i feel that Zeekerss won't be able to deliver it right

#

Not talking about the "Breaking the wall and unleashing a monster that will consume everything", it's about what we have to do to fix the drill

raven patrol
#

I truthfully am worried it will not fully land either, I kind of like the cosmic horror angle of the current lore. Plus the hype will be hard to match as always

#

Oh, you beat me to it

dense flicker
#

Its currently how i feel in general

#

Mean as it sounds

raven patrol
dense flicker
#

oh god

#

yeah I wouldnt even bother

analog cypress
#

Idk how i can express myself, Lethal Company was more fun when it came out? The updates added cool things but nothing substancial or game changer

dense flicker
#

I'm inclined to agree

#

The mineshaft update was probably the last update I felt was substantial

#

but...perhaps this convo can be taken elsewhere so as not to gunk up butteryrebalance discussion

analog cypress
#

general

crude pier
#

crafting update when

naive mesa
#

Except maybe v65

#

But that was essentially just belt bag and meteor shower, and was specifically because Zeekerss was going to take a break on the game to work on other stuff for a while, but he still had some content that was meant for a larger update.

jagged nexus
raven patrol
#

v62 patched some v60 bugs, introduced haunted doors, changed how long Coil-Heads recharge, and reduced Barber spawn cap to 1

#

v69 was the holiday update with snowmen

dense flicker
#

But idk with this mod mineshaft is better

shut torrent
#

Is RNG configurator compatible with the reworked infestations and the new types of infestations that were added?

#

I'm hoping to make infestations more common in my eclipsed only modpack

daring oar
shut torrent
daring oar
#

so anything that modifies how infestations start should automatically be detected and replaced

#

as long as weird stuff isn't happening, like them trying to start infestations in the middle of an actively running day

#

but anything that changes the chance formula should be detected

#

yeah

shut torrent
#

Sounds good

#

Another question that's on my mind currently: have you considered adding in a option to buff the battery life of the green flashlight?

#

Like from 2 minutes 20 seconds to 3 minutes for example?

daring oar
#

not really

#

we pretty much only use green flashlights sometimes on quota 1 and then we stop bothering with them

#

and i think it's fine that they are bad since they exist to pretty much be outclassed by the pro flashlights

#

once you have a little more spending cash

#

technically they have some sort of niche in that they don't cost any weight

#

but i think the beam is just not bright enough to be genuinely usable as a staple item

glad iron
#

Wish they were different instead of simple upgrade. Like stronger but narrower beam vs weaker by wider beam, for example.

raven patrol
#

Some people really out stock into the green flashlight being weightless, apparently they noice the 5lb

daring oar
#

i think i definitely need to do something about the cruiser

#

the most recent time we played the game i left the cruiser in park at the dine fire exit

#

with the engine running

#

and it killed 4 dogs on its own with 0 player interaction and took no more than 10-15% damage

#

lol

#

even if it took more it would've just regenerated it all back

analog cypress
dense flicker
#

How does that even happen lmao

#

I guess the sound attracts but thats silly

marble spruce
#

imo the best state the cruiser has been in was pre v70 with that cruiser improvements mod that added a damage cooldown

#

still easy to break but it wouldnt get instantly destroyed by physics glitches

dry current
#

100%

raven patrol
#

Everyone on Bread’s server is liking how the Cruiser is killing dogs for them for free, it is genuinely ridiculous

#

It did not need any buffs at all imo, aside from maybe a damage cooldown

civic parrot
#

plink

Mod makers make an evil dog mod that adds a blue dog that doesn't kill players but instead just kills the cruiser /j

#

But yeah that sounds genuinely unbalanced -

Fr.

daring oar
#

how do folks feel about new scrap spawns in the mineshaft's other tiles

#

right now i've only made adjustments to mineshaft scaling, to reduce the total size of the dungeon, but with the same general gameplay of "find the caves to find the loot"

#

but since the factories and tunnel tiles share some props, and some of those props have scrap spawns attributed to them in factory, i could port those over to maybe improve the loot spread

#

could add tabletops to the stacks of pallets or small items to the shelves

jagged nexus
#

That could be nice, there's also apparently a rare issue that can happen when traversing the underwater section that can make you fall through the map

#

Had that happen to a friend earlier

naive mesa
#

That’d be great. Makes it coherent with the other interiors where items usually spawn on tables or shelves, instead of always being on the floor.

daring oar
dense flicker
#

Either way, although you do want to get folks in the caverns

#

Which atm your mod does a good job of

raven patrol
#

I am fine with Mineshaft’s current emphasis on the caves, the biggest issue I hear is that some seeds have a lot of the loot generate in one clump in a corner of all the caves

dense flicker
#

Absolutely

#

Thats annoying

crude pier
#

I love mineshafts mainly because of the elevator

#

makes things more interesting

#

and gives the main entrance a small airlock of safety

#

most of the time*

dense flicker
#

As long as a masked doesn't appear

thin comet
jagged nexus
#

I was testing this today btw and it doesn't work

daring oar
#

i patch the exact same logic they patch

#

because the vanilla logic is not good

#

i prefix canceled it and replaced it completely

#

i still have a butteryfixes patch floating around i need to eventually publish

#

i should probably add compat for this

jagged nexus
#

Probably NODDERS

shut torrent
#

Is ButteRyBalance compatible with coilhead tweaks? I want to nerf the coilhead's damage ever so slightly but I'm not sure whether the changes to the coilhead are compatible with coilhead tweaks

#

(Also apologies for the potential poor grammer, I haven't slept yet lol)

daring oar
#

im not sure which mod you are referring to

#

as long as it doesn't change any of the stuff im changing it should be fine

shut torrent
#

This one

#

I know there's a option to change spawn curves in ButteRyBalance and CoilHeadSettings also allows you to change that

#

So I figure that might be a incompatibility right there

glad iron
#

Just use one and toggle off the other.

daring oar
#

i discovered that the safety intervals for spike traps doesn't seem to work in v72

#

so i was thinking of just adding a setting to restore the old v50 beta behavior

#

where spike traps were completely blocked from spawning within a certain range of entrances

#

landmines inside of entrances have counterplay

#

even turrets facing entrances have some counterplay (basically a reaction check to survive, if you're good you might not even take damage)

#

spike traps kill instantly, and if you enter during the slam animation there's nowhere near enough time to react to it + then run out of the way or exit the building

#

even if it hasnt begun slamming yet you are only given 1.2s of grace period which is still kind of unnecessarily punishing

surreal crow
#

that would be nice. even with the safety buffer ive really disliked that spike traps can spawn at entrances

raven patrol
#

v50 beta is a treasure trove, isn’t it?

dense flicker
#

Why thats not in the main game is a mystery

crude pier
daring oar
#

i play with lethalfixes and at least in my case it didn't prevent cheap spike trap deaths

#

but im not 100% sure what 1a3 is doing under the hood

#

i know there was one bug with vanilla that he used to fix that zeekerss fixed in v70

raven patrol
#

I think I would have to agree, I play a lot of AH with Purple and have seen cheap entrance deaths

#

However iirc 1a3’s fix only applies to Inverse Teleporter, not general entrance usage. Obviously a very important distinction

glad iron
#

What about SpikeTrapFixes?

jagged nexus
#

SpikeTrapFixes doesn't affect their spawn locations

thin comet
#

Lethalfixes fix safety intervals.

civic parrot
#

What weights are for Embrion actually?

Or all the tweaked moons-

#

Like for enemies/entities

crude pier
civic parrot
#

I know that is but I was thinking like the actual numbers and things of them-

#

Cause uh-

I want to know for modpack making

civic parrot
#

As like I have a enemy weight spreadsheet for inside enemies and I want to make it accurate and also tweak things accordingly for vanilla moons

daring oar
civic parrot
#

You're so peak

daring oar
#

if you look at the "adjustedEnemies" dictionary in the various moon overrides files

#

you can see the weights im assigning

civic parrot
#

Thanks!!

daring oar
#

it's because i patched the same logic in butteryfixes and i prefix cancel their prefix cancel (lol)

#

it has been fixed in the update i am releasing right now

daring oar
# 
[Debug  :ButteRyBalance] RendLevel.spawnableOutsideObjects: SnowmanShort
[Debug  :ButteRyBalance] RendLevel.spawnableOutsideObjects: SnowmanTall
jagged nexus
crude pier
#

yippie!

daring oar
runic cobalt
# daring oar how

If you scanned it early enough beehives weren't given their value yet iirc

#

But other than that, daym

daring oar
#

the worst vow i have seen in a long time

image.png
#

i dont even know what the hell happened

#

i guess there must've just been a dozen metal sheets

thin comet
#

eat all scrap

dense flicker
#

More like metal sheit

daring oar
#

wowie. at 8 AM on eclipsed dine? you shouldnt have. really. genuinely

image.png
dense flicker
#

Thats your punishment for going to dine

naive mesa
#

Dine isnt so bad with ButteryBalance

dense flicker
#

Youre going to vanilla dine now

raven patrol
#

With BRB Dine still has 4 spawn cycle during Eclipse, so I imagine it is nearly as bad as vanilla. Nerfed spawn curve is not too impactful when enemies are guaranteed

daring oar
#

@analog cypress yes, it replicates in a profile with only unityexplorer used to set march's size to 1.8x

#

so this is a problem with vanilla gen

#

i dont know why this particular seed fails to activate any of the potential fire exits, and only at 1.8x size (whereas 2x size is fine)

#

but that is the problem

analog cypress
#

but that only happens on challenge moons right?

#

if that's the case i guess there's no harm, almost nobody play those

daring oar
#

it would probably still happen in a regular game

#

if it rolled that particular seed

#

it's just consistently replicable because the challenge moon is a set seed on a set moon

analog cypress
#

yikes

daring oar
raven patrol
#

I don’t think I fully get it

#

Is there a second destroyed Cruiser?

daring oar
#

it is a giant patch of weeds on top of the ship + cruiser with an old bird on the cliffside

raven patrol
#

I see

daring oar
#

in the next version i might investigate if i can disable easter egg instakills

#

easter eggs are already among my least favorite additions to the game but like

#

at least getting launched into the air because you dropped an egg and it exploded can be kind of funny sometimes

#

when you drop an egg and instantly get killed because you are within a teeny tiny radius it's just like "why"

naive mesa
#

Should also have a set damage for monsters since its easy to cheese nuts with it

shut torrent
daring oar
daring oar
#

i feel like i already did all the changes with the moons i wanted

#

i am thinking about changing daytime spawns on assurance to work more like they did in v69 (v70 increased them which means more bees and that's a pretty big buff)

#

and im adding back the snowmen to the ice planets

#

outside of that i dont think there's much i'd still change

#

as for infestations, i think i've already added infestations for the enemy types that make sense

#

i could add snare flea or thumper infestations, for example, but both of those enemies have really low spawn caps

thin comet
#

coilhead infestations

daring oar
#

i kinda played with the idea of coilhead infestations but i think everybody would hate those Lol

daring oar
thin comet
#

masked health to 5 will be cool to "match" player health

daring oar
#

i have thought a little about doing that

thin comet
#

And we need buttery desbalance

daring oar
#

technically "player health" would mean 6 HP total, and they regenerate from 1 HP back to 2 HP if they aren't damaged for 15s

thin comet
#

hmmm

daring oar
#

masked are a really easy kill though, so just making them tankier doesn't make a huge difference IMO

#

it's still kind of a fun setting idea though

#

and i think it'd make infestations a little scarier

#

so i might do it anyway

civic parrot
#

I like killed 4 once during an infestation of masked on Kenji's moon, Ascension

shut torrent
#

Snare flea infestations are interesting, but in practice I'm not sure it'd do much if you have one person holding a shovel and stick by them

analog cypress
#

next update we'll have snowman back? = )

daring oar
#

that is the plan

analog cypress
#

could we also have sapsucker on March pls? You can leave it off by default or put a lower chance than Assurance, I just think it's a waste that March has a big exterior and doesn't have it

crude pier
crude pier
daring oar
#

which is more or less the point of using my moon settings

analog cypress
#

I think it's because entities can't path to the white stone on the fire exits

daring oar
#

i made an exception for offense bees because that requires curve editing and LLL doesn't provide options for that out-of-the-box

#

i guess i could add it disabled-by-default but i just dont feel like i need to

#

i guess

daring oar
#

forever ago i was gonna change moon prices but i never wound up doing that

analog cypress
analog cypress
#

and probably many people are also interested on it

daring oar
#

well

#

this mod is also required by all clients

#

and enemy spawns are host-side which means even clientside mods can add sapsuckers to march

#

but i suppose i understand the perspective

analog cypress
#

I phrased it wrong, adding more mods required by everyone*

analog cypress
crude pier
# daring oar forever ago i was gonna change moon prices but i never wound up doing that

I think I have a pretty good idea on how to mostly solve the whole getting stuck on one specific moon during the late game. Obviously this won't 100% solve it because Artifice's loot pool is just too good and since loot and enemy spawns don't scale so yea.

-# I'll be referring to these moons when I say "Tier (x) moons"
-# Tier 1: Experimentation, Assurance, Vow
-# Tier 2: Offense, March, Adamance
-# Tier 3: Rend, Dine, Titan. Since it's hidden, Embrion still will require an additional routing cost if you route to the tier 3 moons.
-# Tier 4: Artifice is hidden and the only tier 4 moon so it'll require it's full price

Basically, the routing system should work by paying to route to a specific group/tier of moons. So if I pay to route to the tier 3 moons, then I would have the ability to route to all of the moons that are within tier 3 for free -- with an exception to the hidden moons.

Now if I paid for the tier 3 moons, all of the tiers below tier 3 will now be discounted by a specific amount to make routing to previous tiers less painful. Also hidden moons within the same tier or below will also be discounted to make routing to them a lot less painful and more feasible. Artifice is the only "tier 4" moon so you would only be paying for that, but still getting a discount on the previous tiers as well. Ideally the discount will increase depending on how much the routing cost is.

This would hopefully make the late-game feel a lot less repetitive since you will now be able to jump between moons a lot easier without throwing all of your money away. I really don't think getting locked into a specific moon is very fun.

I'm not sure if Titan should be in it's own tier or not since the loot there can get really good sometimes, though I typically don't make a whole lot more there compared to a good Rend run.
Also I'm not sure if Embrion should be a tier 2 or 3 moon since I haven't been there in a while and I'm not sure how good the loot is there when playing with ButteRyBalance.

crude pier
#

oh yea idk what the prices should be, but off the top of my head they could be something like:
Tier 1: Free
Tier 2: $300 or $400?
Tier 3: $700 or $800? (30% or 40% discount for previous tiers)
Tier 4: $1500 (60% discount for previous tiers)
Embrion would still cost $150, though it will be discounted if you paid to route to the same tier of moons as Embrion. So in this case, Embrion would get tier 3 discounts.

analog cypress
#

i think you can do something similar with Lethal Constellations

#

give it a try

crude pier
#

And I didn’t like how the terminal was laid out

analog cypress
#

I understand, i'm also trying to avoid using LLL

#

The idea is cool but idk how to feel about it, i've played the game for over a year and changing the route system at this point would be very hard ngl

crude pier
#

Good thing it’s a mod!

#

Or would be

#

The biggest flaw with lethal company is its moon routing system (imo at least)

#

Just late game in general

#

The entire gameplay loop is just make enough to get to at least Rend, then jump to Titan or just skip Rend and go straight to Titan.

#

Then you stick with those two moons for 60% of the game

#

Unless you’re able to make it to Art, which then by that point the last 30 days would’ve all happened all on 3 different moons

analog cypress
#

I mean, making Offense, March and Adamance cost money doesn't fix the fact that I can gather my friends on Assurance or Vow and go straight to Titan or Artifice after quota if we're lucky enough

#

The problem doesn't lie in the routing system, but in the balance between moons

crude pier
crude pier
#

And with the routing system I pitched you have the option to route between moons

#

In vanilla you literally don’t have any other option

#

(If your going for high quotas that is)

analog cypress
#

Meh, I'm not that interested in discussing this and there are many subjective points

#

Don't wanna flood this thread

crude pier
#

Oke

dry current
#

but this IS a way to fix that issue,yea

crude pier
# dry current I skimmed so apologies if I missed this but this would encourage moon hopping to...

True; since I play with weather tweaks I have loot prices increased slightly for specific weathers so there more of an incentive to hunt down moons with harder weathers. But if you're worried you're going to die and don't have much gear, then you could hop on over to another moon if you don't want to risk it.
-# (the scrap price increases that I have configured are very minor so you don't get an insane amount of money hunting down eclipsed moons)

#

But yea moon hopping to avoid weathers would become more of a thing. Which I'm not entirely against, though I do see why people would be against that.

dense flicker
#

Also I think id prefer to keep the moons that are free free. They come with their own danger

#

Especially adamance

naive mesa
viscid edge
#

immediately regretting adding butterybalance when i get 6 two handed scrap items on solo assurance

dry current
dense flicker
#

We use the extra weathwrs with snow and toxic smog

#

And most places will have some kind of weather

#

Whixh is why it's nice to have those three free along with the beginner moons

daring oar
#

it's a pretty major overhaul and i could see people being interested in it but not the rest of this mod and vice versa

daring oar
#

the one good thing about vanilla's price system is that you have to lock into a particular moon regardless of what happens with the weather on future days of quota

#

or you risk losing all the money you invested

daring oar
#

that could maybe be solved by having a small re-route cost (like $20-50) so you have to be mindful of holding extra money + death penalty

#

i suppose

crude pier
crude pier
shut torrent
#

More on the topic of snare flea infestations: Snare fleas as a whole are feast or famine entities. They're extremely deadly and troublesome if you don't have weaponry, often requiring you to obsessive compulsively check the ceiling to hopefully detect their whereabouts just so you won't slowly suffocate to death.

On the other hand, if you do have a shovel (and you really should), the snare flea interaction as a whole boils down to: snare flea drops down, you whack it 3 times, it dies. Sure, it might latch onto you, but finding your shovel isn't hard at all if you stay calm and focus, and if you're dealing with other entities it's not too much of a hassle to just whack the snare flea once to make it go away. Only way I could see a snare flea doing anything is if it catches you off guard while currently in combat with other monsters, but that rarely happens in my experience.

I do see something interesting coming out of adding snare fleas as a infestation option. They'd offer a interesting gameplay loop of routing around the snare fleas so as to cause as little conflict as possible, but also the shovel just exists, and near entirely nullifies the snare flea as a threat, and people without a shovel will be forced to follow the shovel player around or face a frustrating and deadly gameplay loop of checking the ceiling every few seconds or dying (and that's if the other entities/hazards don't kill them first while they're looking up in the ceiling)

thin comet
#

Max spawn is 4

#

Nice infestation

shut torrent
#

For snare fleas?

thin comet
#

yes

shut torrent
#

You know, it'd really benefit me to learn the spawn caps of each monster

#

Because I assumed that snare fleas would have a higher spawn cap than 4

#

They're such a ineffectual entity to me personally that I thought they'd have a higher spawn cap

dense flicker
#

Snare flea infestation sounds awful

#

Now jester infestation

#

That sounds fun

thin comet
#

max spawn is 1

shut torrent
#

Mostly I was doing more in depth about why I personally think a snare flea infestation isn't the best route to go down in regards to adding more infestation types

dense flicker
#

Its just one jester

shut torrent
#

I think a thumper infestation would be the best route to go down, they have a low spawn cap of 4 but that benefits the infestation now that I think about it

#

Thumpers are extremely powerful and domineering monsters and having any higher than 4 would be pretty OP because of their sheer threat level

#

Plus it helps that thumpers are much more well rounded entities than snare fleas, they offer a more consistent level of challenge, even if they do incentivize combat more compared to other entities

#

But then again, infestations incentivize combat as a whole so that flaw nullifies itself

shut torrent
#

Lmfao

dense flicker
#

Oh god please no

shut torrent
dry current
#

Spore lizard infestation

shut torrent
#

That way you can pet the spore lizards and give them hugs :)

viscid edge
#

old bird infestation

analog cypress
#

baboon hawk infestation

thin comet
thin comet
analog cypress
#

bro don't wanna have fun

analog cypress
#

it's host-side

viscid edge
#

baboon hawk infestation actually sounds kinda fun

dense flicker
#

kiwi infestation

vast orbit
#

What about the bracken? The vanilla cap is 1, so I think allowing 2 or 3 to spawn that day would spice things up (if it's even possible)

civic parrot
#

I plan on using central config to mess with things. Like increased weight on a certain interior.

But what or how does the increased butler chance work?

Is it a multiplier or additional weight point? (Plus I would like to know how the maneater one works for mineshafts too-)

civic parrot
#

Wait I think I get it

If the moon weight is 19, and the interior is manor and the multiplyer being 1

It would be 19 + 19 = 38

dry current
#

If the multiplier is 1 shouldn't it just return 19

civic parrot
#

Oh idk how it works then

#

As it's like 1 on the GitHub I think -

#

Cause I couldn't find it so idk if what I found is correct or not

#

If so that's weird-

But I was able to use central config to make the mineshaft 1.7 multiplier be on deepcore for maneater so I gotta test how that plays

daring oar
#

it's a 1.7x multiplier in manors

civic parrot
#

Ah k

#

Lol

marble spruce
#

remove easter eggs from loot pool unless its April

dry current
#

remove all seasonal items unless it's their respective season

#

😇

#

no more SHIP PUMPKIN!!! NO MORE o a a

dense flicker
#

I kill my friends with them on accident and its funny

daring oar
#

@grim spruce yesfox used to be a dependency of this mod because i made changes to vain shrouds on some moons

#

the idea being you can get "the experience i intended with using the mod" by just clicking install

#

but it was an unpopular decision and later on yesfox got updated to include some of the features that used to require this mod

#

so i just decided to remove it

#

RBM is probably still pointing to an old version of this mod as a dependency so it's probably downloading yesfox as a dependency

#

before you update this mod to latest

#

anyways

grim spruce
daring oar
#

every single change i made in this mod (with i think the only exception being the ladder obstacle fix) is toggleable

grim spruce
#

Awesome! I was just about to type that I found the apparatus config so it's all good!

#

I personally really would like the kidnapper fox in my modpack but like I'm unsure if it even works. Idk who it was someone was saying how it doesn't work on wesley's moons so I'm a bit nervous it'll just become a scrapped enemy 😭

daring oar
#

i love the kidnapper fox and im really upset zeekerss decided to scrap it permanently

#

but i have also barely played around with it outside of the vanilla moons

#

it works great in vanilla but im not aware of all the bugs with modded content and if there are workarounds

#

i will say, personally from my experience playing with both wesley's moons and the kidnapper fox separately

#

i probably wouldnt add the fox to them

#

but im not sure if it's actually broken

#

or anything

grim spruce
#

I had planned to reduce the chances if it appearing scaled to from vanilla moon amount: modded moon amount in my modpack. These guys I'm playing with want to check it out anyways so I guess I can see rq if it at least works on asteroid and motra

#

Hopefully modded doesn't screw it up 😭 It was a cool enemy

marble spruce
#

you hate me

daring oar
marble spruce
#

u didnt tell me

daring oar
#

well

#

just being honest

#

i didnt realize it was an issue

daring oar
#

Lol

daring oar
marble spruce
#

tbh

analog cypress
#

was it difficult?

marble spruce
#

im prob gonna leave the dependency outdated for now

#

i like the fox being bundled in

#

when you download my thing

daring oar
#

me too

marble spruce
#

i literally reworked how vain shrouds spawn specifically for that

daring oar
#

i am not 100% happy with removing it on my side because i really wanted "the intended experience" to work with just installing the mod and not having to fuck with anything

#

i do understand that some people want my changes and dont want the kidnapper fox, especially in a highly tailored mod pack, but like

#

imo part of the problem there is just i think the dependency system of thunderstore sucks and is only better than nothing

#

in any case i removed it on my end, so

#

it is what it is

jagged nexus
#

I wish the fox could just have a nest tbh, not really a fan of Vain Shrouds and how they work

daring oar
#

my features have no reason to exist anymore because you can just disable them on titan/embrion using yesfox's config

#

since i can't change yesfox's config anyway, and my settings would've been redundant, i don't even think it made sense to include anymore

#

if that makes sense

#

i guess

jagged nexus
#

I've also been seeing people say the fox doesn't work on custom moons and

#

I don't really know why it doesn't

daring oar
#

but nothing off the top of my head comes to mind

thin comet
#

Beanie moons the fox is more active and it looks like all moons has mold attraction points but it never tries to enter into the ship.

grim spruce
#

So like it's garentee it don't work on modded moons?

dense flicker
#

I think the removal of the fox was probably a wise decision

#

Interesting creature but such a pain to deal with

#

Better off as a mod

dry current
dry current
#

intended experience packs are awesome though

#

I got generic to make one after I made my own here #1371635220867977286

#

(he still hasn't released it cuz he hasn't updated)

shut torrent
#

@daring oar Just out of curiosity, what is the current chance for infestations/single scrap days/meteor events?

#

I haven't found the v72 percentage values for any of them listed anywhere

daring oar
#

meteor events are 0.7% per day (they were 0.6% only for the first v64 patch)

#

single scrap days are 4.2% right now

#

enemy infestations are 0.7% chance when the host's clock is october 23rd at the start of a round

#

~2.6% chance otherwise

shut torrent
#

Gotcha

#

Thanks buttery

dry current
daring oar
#

yes

#

i think zeekerss intended for the chances to be boosted on the game's anniversary

#

but he messed up and it skips the boosted chance on the anniversary

#

and on non-anniversary days, it calculates both the normal chance and the boosted chance (lol)

#

i think someone also mentioned that leap years offset the date or something

#

it's super jank

dry current
#

i mean it makes sense for it to be lower on anniversary. I assume people would go back to play the game on that day and infestations are the least visually interesting, least immediately noticeable (unless you know about them) of the three events

#

and also potentially the meanest one lol

daring oar
#

maybe, but the 1st anniversary event is the whole reason infestations were added

dry current
#

not saying he intended for that, but i'm glad that it is the way it is right now lol

daring oar
#

and they were an 8% chance in that patch

dry current
daring oar
#

you are right about them being turbo jank though

#

This fits into one of the broader problems I'm always worrying about in Lethal Company, which is pacing out the special moments so that you're not desensitized. That is why at least the stats of Experimentation never change (ironically). The other moons have sort of been compromised as I added new content in and we all forgot what it felt like to be overwhelmed by like 1 creature. But Experimentation remains a hold-out for new players who need that early pacing. Right now in balancing I am leaning heavily towards decreasing the chaos, since it's at a maximum on most planets.

Patreon
The Gigantic Version 60 Post | Zeekerss

Get more from Zeekerss on Patreon

daring oar
#

"i am a new player and it's time to play experimentation 🥴"

10 hoarding bugs, 10 nutcrackers, barber, ghost girl, and bracken on experimentation
old birds and forest giants outside

dry current
dry current
#

it's also unlikely the game's getting too many new players to the point where this could happen often enough to be a problem

calm heron
#

😭 i turned on the artiface turrets increase and this happened lol

image.png 33C9A718-8795-4D91-8389-AC1C2F303001.png
dry current
#

this is what release artifice felt like bruh

raven patrol
daring oar
daring oar
#

lol

daring oar
dry current
crude pier
lofty narwhal
#

Its like gambling for new players

#

Either they will learn something and dont rage quit

#

Or they will get fucked up by a monster that shouldnt even spawn

#

"the chances are low but never 0" just like with the ghost girl

#

Zeekers just made a game with mid code, ok mechanics and the best game design/most creative universe/visuals/whatever

dense flicker
#

And it happened to be great streamer bait

#

Mid code is definitely true sadly, but i like the mechanics well enough

#

I do kinda wish zeek would just complete the game already, that way mods dont need to be updated or fixed every time

dry current
#

I can see him adding some buuullshit in there after it's out of early access

dense flicker
#

Given his current feelings on the game I doubt he wants to

#

He probably just wants it to be done

dry current
#

has he said he hates working on it?

#

last thing I read him say was that he wasn't loving making the facility tiles and that's it

dense flicker
#

Idk...just the lack of updates and the burn out kind of implies it to me 🤷

naive mesa
dense flicker
#

Yeah he also said that last year too

#

I dont have much faith

naive mesa
#

Because of the fact WTTDP was in the works alongside LC’s inception it’s safe to assume this is just kind of how he works on stuff. Alternating between certain projects when he feels like it. Usually every few months. Which I can respect since this making games and updates can be hard for a solo dev, and everyone works on projects differently.

naive mesa
#

Also, his latest patreon mentions he had some play testers for it, so undoubtedly it is coming out this October.

#

It’s not LC but I am quite excited for WTTDP

grim spruce
#

October for a game to be finished and who knows when after that for a Lethal update. It seems anytime he works on lethal it's always burnout

#

I don't think we are going to see an update for awhile sadly

dense flicker
#

And thats whats frustating

#

But I'm just gonna be repeating myself at this point

#

Latest update was alright but beyond the mansion nothing substantial

grim spruce
#

I know, I'm annoyed at the update spacing as well. I followed every update like a loyal dog haha. LC is an awesome game

#

Now it's just going to be forever before we see something

dense flicker
#

i gave up on the patreon

crude pier
dry current
#

idk I just think it's so gloomy to say he's never finishing his most succesful game cuz he's focusing on his other passion projects

surreal crow
#

i remember he even said at one point that switching to a different project for a bit usually gives him new ideas for what he was previously working on

#

its just kinda how he functions it seems

naive mesa
dense flicker
#

I dont know, burnout is burnout

#

I think its fair to believe that he has some lack of interest, especially with the update output being lower

#

We should take this to general as we are once again mucking up butterybalance 😆

raven patrol
#

On the topic of Experimentation being an awful tutorial, can we talk about Flooded weather on it? It is possibly the worst Flooded moons I think, I usually die trying to get back to the ship after 3pm because you legitimately need to memorize a route to reach air pockets fast enough. March and Artifice are bad when Flooded too, but at least they do not kill you. Could anything be done to make Flooded more manageable on Experimentation?

dry current
#

...what?

#

the flooded route on exp is piss easy, you just go under the catwalk in a straight line or a little bit to the right past the water tower

#

the whole point of flooded is to force different navigation, and you can't even get flooded day 1 in vanilla anymore since day 1 forces clear on everything now I believe

#

so I'm not sure if it makes it any worse as a tutorial

raven patrol
#

You are describing a memorized route that is significantly different from the normal path to ship, which is exactly what I am talking about. No other moon needs special routing, you can just figure it out as you transfer. By the way Experimentation has like 3 water towers and 2 catwalks, you gotta be more specific.

I disagree about Flooded being meant to require special routing. It mainly encourages you to consider leaving sooner and be mindful of how deep some parts are as the day goes on. Artifice, March, or even Assurance or Offense need special routes

daring oar
#

i personally dont have an issue with flooded experimentation and dont really have plans to do anything about it

#

flooded is displayed to the player before the ship is landed so you have the choice to go to assurance instead if it's an issue

#

and (at least if you don't use generalimprovements or butteryfixes to randomize the seed) the default seed starts with experimentation being unweathered

#

so i dont think it's too disruptive to the new player experience either

raven patrol
#

Very well

grim spruce
# daring oar i personally dont have an issue with flooded experimentation and dont really hav...

I have a question. I'm unsure how exactly the credit penalties work in base LC and you seem to have knowledge on numbers and moreso basegame so do you know the answer? So you lose 8% of your credits per person that is dead if the body was brought back, and you lose 20% per body that is dead that isn't brought back. Does the game use these two or does it actually apply a 12% onto the 8%?

#

Sry for the ping

daring oar
#

it's 20% per unrecovered (or destroyed) body and 8% per recovered body

#

the actual credits deducted is based on how many credits you had before penalty applies and rounds down

#

i.e. with 5 credits and 2 unrecovered bodies + a recovered body

#

it would subtract 20% of 5 (1)

#

20% of 5 (1)

#

and then 8% of 5 (0.4, which rounds down to 0)

#

and you would be left with 3 credits

grim spruce
#

so nowhere in the code does it purposely add a seperate 12% on an 8% to get the 20%, the 20% is seperate?

#

Like in short I kinda understand the penalty but on the wiki it mentions the game adds 12% onto the 8% instead of just being the 20% which would be weird to do

#

But on the other wiki it only says 8% and 20%

grim spruce
daring oar
#

the penalty:

  1. counts how many players dead
  2. counts how many bodies were recovered
  3. for #1 minus #2, it subtracts 0.2x of your pre-penalty credits (so that's a 20% penalty)
  4. for #2, it divides the penalty by 2.5 (so 0.2x -> 0.08x, thus 8% penalty) and applies the same way
daring oar
#

penalty is always rounded down and it's applied per body

#

so even if body #1 says "subtract 2.5" and body #2 says "subtract 2.5"

#

you will lose 4 credits because both round down to 2 separately

#

rather than losing 5 credits

#

also the in-game HUD lies about the penalty

grim spruce
#

When determining the 20%, is the 20% just a seperate value or does the game calculate it be adding a seperate 12% onto the 8%

daring oar
#

it shows -(20 * dead players)% which implies that recovered bodies have a 0% penalty

grim spruce
#

Also I have another question while your here regarding furniture

daring oar
#

but that is just completely untrue

#

the text is just wrong

grim spruce
#

Ahhh

daring oar
#

8 is derived from 20, not the other way around

grim spruce
#

ohhh, I didn't know that. Okay thank you for that, that'll help me decide something regarding a mod

#

Also, I think I saw an old text somewhere saying that when furniture is stored, you lose it's luck factor until next quota

#

Was that fixed in butteryfixes or another mod?

#

asking since I'm almost done with my suits and furniture is next in my modpack

#

that and there was an update to the melanie furniture

daring oar
daring oar
#

it's just really dumb

#

but i was gonna add a setting to this one

#

because i think it sucks

grim spruce
#

so is it planned, already in? Sounds like it's possibly planned lol

#

Sry you gave me a yes and a I was gonna so I didn't know which

daring oar
#

i said "yes" because you are correct that storing furniture removes its luck bonus

#

furniture only contributes luck if it was sitting out at the start of quota and never gets stored before next quota

#

that's not a bug

#

that's just how zeekerss designed the system

#

i don't like that system so i was planning to do something about it

grim spruce
#

ohh okok. Yeah tbh idk what zeekers was thinking. But I'm glad your planning something!

#

Thank you for your answers!

unreal ginkgo
#

Any plans on making giant sapsuckers less annoying to play against?

#

I'm aware they're supposed to be a thing you do last minute, but that doesn't make them any more fun of an entity

#

Because so far, I have found no way to get their eggs without the use of TZP and/or Cruiser

balmy pier
#

(jk)

unreal ginkgo
#

...And cheeses

raven patrol
#

What exactly are you thinking? It is meant to be an optional encounter for some risk/reward gameplay, sort of like Circuit Bees. Sometimes it does spawn in annoying spots, but that is about it

unreal ginkgo
#

Idk, all I've got for now is giving more time before an egg bursts

dry current
#

or having it sleep for longer would be cool

unreal ginkgo
#

Ya

dry current
#

cuz honestly they wake up so fucking fast its cray cray

raven patrol
unreal ginkgo
#

I just wanna get it the intended way without the process being unfun is what I mean lmao

crude pier
raven patrol
raven patrol
dense flicker
#

I dont think anything gonna be happening with sapsuck

#

Truthfully I agree with you, its not that great of an entity gameplay wise

#

Its just beehives with extra steps imo 😆

#

Not to mention it has the latest zeekers design of "make enemies bullet sponges" (although for the worth of the eggs I see why it needs to not be instakill)

#

And its only on certain early moons, so you'll rarely ever see the thing in end game

#

Anyways, ty for coming to my ted talk

dry current
#

i think it's a good way to have an intense encounter that bumps the credit yield of lower end moons

#

but he put it on the one moon that consistently gets more scrap than the rest

#

no offense sapsucker.... cryingf

unreal ginkgo
#

Offense and March lacking giant sapsuckers is crazy

dense flicker
#

I mean i think id rather go to a moon with a guaranteed higher yield than roll for a "chance" of a sapsucker

unreal ginkgo
#

Especially since Offense and March are pretty mid moons...

dense flicker
#

Better with this mod but yeah

#

Truth be told there isnt any real reason to rush to rend/titan early game besides the novelty of other moons

austere dew
unreal ginkgo
#

Do you mind elaborating more on this?

image.png
dense flicker
#

I beleive when theres more players theres a multiplier to the chance of weather?

shut torrent
austere dew
#

So this is it
You are the new LC king
Take this 🫴👑

shut torrent
dense flicker
#

When you sell the 3 200$ eggs

raven patrol
raven patrol
# dry current no offense sapsucker.... cryingf

I think it is not on moons like March or Offense is because they are too big for the eggs to be feasibly taken back to the ship before you get killed. Yeah Offense is the same map as Assurance, but the ship being tucked away in a far corner makes it take longer to traverse

#

We would need a rebalance to make those moons work

unreal ginkgo
#

Maneaters and kidnapper foxes get a pass from me because of that, but you can hardly reap anything from giant sapsuckers

#

Idk if it's just a skill issue, but I have not been able to get an egg once the intended way solo

raven patrol
#

Fox is alright, Maneater is hard saved by this mod though. Vanilla Maneater is awful, one Landmine and its over

unreal ginkgo
#

You can still encourage an adult maneater out of the way at least

#

I've found recently that they're more time wasters than anything

raven patrol
#

Ye, but there still is a time bomb element due to their nest mechanic. After a while they become too aggressive to play around

unreal ginkgo
#

At least you can actually deal with them without equipment or exploits...

raven patrol
#

Mostly yes

#

As for Sapsucker though, I have heard that if you get it to spawn on the Vow ridge instead of the ravine, you can very quickly grab an egg while it is sleeping and take off before getting killed

#

On Adamance if it spawns by the jump bridge, you can use it to gain enough distance to similarly make a quick getaway

#

Otherwise though yeah, you need to kill it or use tech/cheese to get the eggs

unreal ginkgo
#

You're shitting me

image.png
#

NO option to increase the sapsucker's sleeping time?

#

Grah

#

Another problem with giant sapsuckers I've noticed: They just DON'T lose aggro on you if you're ever caught going within bounds of their nest

#

So it's more or less guaranteed, inescapable death

dry current
#

esp w how the sapsucker's nest spawn is chosen

#

if i had to guess, offense sapsucker nests would probably spawn in these positions most of the time

image.png
unreal ginkgo
#

I would fucking kill myself if I rolled a sapsucker spot like that one day

dry current
#

LMAOOO

#

i mean you just go here

image.png
#

but yeah that would be sooo ass

#

but again these are estimates

#

not really sure how it would spawn exactly without testing

#

but iirc it chooses a spot that's a decent way's away from the ship but also not too close to the main entrance

unreal ginkgo
#

Yeah, Idk what to do

#

Even slowing it down doesn't negate the fact that you just don't have a lot of time to bring an egg back to the ship

dry current
#

i'd say try lunar config and configure a long stun time for it or smth

raven patrol
unreal ginkgo
dry current
balmy pier
#

but that specific strafing is probably easier because it hits the small thing that makes the splash damage not hurt you more accurately

#

at least i assume so

#

this is the less cheese strafe

#

and yes, this is cheese, because for some reason, zeekerss programmed a small invisible thing that when stepped into, makes the sapsucker's splash damage unable to harm you

#

i genuinely cant think of a real reason he did this, all it does is let you do this cheese

#

but unironically, its so hard to do this, it might as well just not be cheese

raven patrol
dense flicker
#

I think removing fox was the correct thing to do

#

The counter was garbage no matter how you put it

unreal ginkgo
#

Giant sapsuckers were executed even worse, Idk man

dense flicker
#

The good news is the kiwi will leave you alone if you leave it alone

#

And sometimes works well for area denial

#

But it doesn't really have great interactions I agree

unreal ginkgo
dense flicker
#

Nah fox is awful

#

Sap is tolerable but boring

#

Id rather have that than something as unfun as the fox

raven patrol
#

The Fox could have been good, but Vain Shrouds being the most broken thing ever put in this his game and Weed Killer being useless meant it did not stand a chance

crude pier
#

I think the fox and shrouds were just poorly balanced. The configs I use for the fox and shrouds makes the fox a nice addition to the moons it can spawn on

dry current
#

ye totally

#

yesfox's values just need a small bit of tweaking to be perfect imo

#

nail in the coffin was vain shrouds sucking ass to remove

dense flicker
#

And appearing on moons you never visited

#

So you literally have NO control

shut torrent
#

I actually got some footage of me doing it a day ago or so

#

It was on eclipsed thallistic on arduous hardships, so I'm lucky that thumpers didn't get in the way of me doing it

austere dew
#

🫴👑 🫵

naive mesa
austere dew
#

Was

naive mesa
#

Purple is william afton??

austere dew
#

Yes

dry current
#

william wafton

austere dew
naive mesa
#

William J Afton

#

J stands for Jspringtrap

austere dew
#

Fr

naive mesa
dry current
austere dew
#

Why

#

What I do

dry current
#

idk I'm bored

austere dew
#

Oh

dry current
austere dew
dry current
#

only true thing you've ever said and you deleted it

austere dew
#

So only we will know that

naive mesa
austere dew
balmy pier
#

random suggestion

#

make the cozy lights be a ship upgrade

daring oar
#

i assume you just want them available 24/7

#

it is already kind of an "upgrade" because it helps with visibility and cant be put away

shut torrent
#

He means put them into the category of upgrades instead of decorations

#

Since the game makes the distinction of them being a decoration instead of a upgrade

jagged nexus
#

I've seen Barber ones

#

but Idk if the other 2 work

#

Actually I think I have seen Bulter ones a few times thinking about it

#

But definitely never Masked

#

I was looking through the config and was like

daring oar
#

masked infestations are most common on titan, offense, and rend

jagged nexus
#

"Have I even seen Masked infestations work?"

#

lol

daring oar
#

with a pretty low chance on dine and adamance

#

as far as im aware they should still work fine

jagged nexus
#

Maybe they just don't work on custom moons?

daring oar
#

custom moons just use enemy weights for infestations

#

so if a moon has "20% chance of masked per enemy spawn" a masked infestation is "20% per infestation"

jagged nexus
#

Ahhhh

thin comet
crude pier
#

I wish there was a way to increase the chance of all of the different types of infestations

#

or just in general

daring oar
#

my mod has compatibility with RNG configurator

#

you can just use that to increase infestation chance

raven patrol
#

I have seen Butler infestations, they are very much functional

thin comet
#

Is it rare? Embrion Moon, Mineshaft Interior, even with entranceteleportationoptimizations, the interior does not generate a fire exit.

dry current
#

do you have map improvements

thin comet
#

nope

daring oar
#

there are some seeds that appear to cause generation errors in vanilla

#

apparently reducing march's interior size from 2x to 1.8x was enough to block a fire exit from generating on a challenge moon some weeks back

#

i dont even know why because those seeds generated a bunch of potential fire exits but none of them were selected

dark hull
#

small mineshaft interiors have an abnormally high chance of having blocked fire exits

#

I am almost sure it's due to how often it generates super small branches on the facility part because the fire exit spawning code is pretty weird with branches

daring oar
#

that was my only hypothesis

#

i know props have some settings to adjust how deep on a branch they can generate

#

so i was wondering if none of the branches are deep enough, if that would just prevent spawning altogether

#

never tested to confirm any of that though

#

i think there still ought to be a mod to just throw out vanilla's fire exit gen and replace it with something new that:

  • generates fire exits far from main entrance
  • generates fire exits far from each other
  • automatically adapts to fire exit count without making a brand new interior type (LLL already does this at least)
dark hull
daring oar
#

oh well how bout that

#

Lol!

dark hull
#

tho I dont really do that last one

daring oar
#

with LLL it doesnt really matter

#

it is mainly just an edge case for stuff like map improvements that adds fire exits to the surface at runtime (but iirc doesnt require LLL?)

#

any sort of new planet/interior would be using LLL

dark hull
#

and it seems like there's a problem with more then 3 fire exits being grouped together often, I'll prob just scrap the whole logic for it and make it account for fire exit distance too, but for up to 3 fire it does the first 2 points really well

daring oar
#

it sounds cool

#

i would like to check it out at some point

#

my friends havent been super active recently but eventually we'll be back (i hope)

dark hull
#

It's still up to chance whether or not fire generates but the way it does it should make it pretty much impossible for fire to fail generation

dense flicker
#

(My friends and I have also not been active)

raven patrol
#

Been waiting for like a year

dense flicker
#

Holy based how did I miss that

shut torrent
#

Anything interesting being cooked up for ButteRyBalance as of late?

raven patrol
#

I had suggested slowing down the Coil-Head’s walking animation during roaming to its v56 speed to make their roaming state more apparent, and to make the Zap Gun fully immobilize Maneaters. Buttery said that if she ever adds these, it would be here

#

I would really want the Coil-Head one

thin comet
#

An option to remove coil-head recharge mode

analog cypress
#

Sapsucker on March 😔

naive mesa
#

An option to disable the mod chilling

feral shard
balmy pier
#

to most people this will sound like an absolutely masochistic suggestion

#

but can you add an option to make ghost girl skip at you faster

thin comet
#

increase her speed by 2.5x

naive mesa
#

misgendering a fictional character is off limits!

balmy pier
#

she should be faster than the player just simply walking

#

but not so fast to where stamina cant save you from her

naive mesa
#

1.2x

runic cobalt
#

It's kinda interesting to see how deliberately designed her speed is

thin comet
unreal ginkgo
#

Having her be any faster would just make her not fun to play against

unreal ginkgo
#

She's literally just called Girl in the game files

raven patrol
#

Last I checked a Girl means she/her so we at least know her pronouns

balmy pier
#

i dont want her to be so fast shes unavoidable, especially against other monsters

#

but being able to just walk backwards without using stamina to avoid her is a bit silly

raven patrol
#

You can probably use that speed mod Leubes sent

unreal ginkgo
dry current
daring oar
#

in my opinion this isn't really an issue

#

but maybe when i get around to doing that ghost girl breaker box thing i will add this as an option

daring oar
#

walking straight away from her is only really feasible if there's nothing else in the area to focus on

raven patrol
#

I also respectfully disagree with Purple on her only being an annoyance, for me at least she has an uncanny ability to catch me at the worst times, and she still slows your looting down a decent bit

#

As Sam said, she gets awful when any other monster is involved too, which is likely given she is common on high-tier moons

raven patrol
daring oar
#

probably better for someone to pr a fix for the original ghost codes

#

if it is the mod i think you are referring to

#

i dont plan on going super in depth into rebalancing hazards since SBT already goes so far into that

#

i was just gonna restore the unused (unintentionally??) ghost girl feature where she sometimes flips the breaker box off completely when starting a chase

raven patrol
#

I am saying that Ghost Codes restores the Breaker Box interaction with the Girl, but since that mod is out of date, having the fix here would be a nice alternative

daring oar
#

oh okay i see

#

then yeah

raven patrol
#

iirc you previously pushed it off because that mod already did it and at the time it was fine

daring oar
#

i also restored snowmen forever ago but never released that pagch

daring oar
#

it is a bit of an awkward change to make

raven patrol
#

“Pushed it off” as in you were considering doing it but never started

daring oar
#

i see

#

i thought you meant "pushed it off" as in removed it from the mod but idk why because what you meant makes way more sense

analog cypress
#

How funny would it be having metal sheets on Dine scrap pool (v73)

daring oar
#

oh man

#

i forgot i added dust pans to dine

#

for the butler moon

#

sadly it's broken

#

by the existence of cannibalism dine

daring oar
#

okay everybody

#

the big objective for today is to release the brb update

thin comet
#

Barberfixes and ventspawnfix is working on the new update?

daring oar
#

i see no reason why they shouldnt

#

are you having trouble with them?

#

BRB is my only published mod that uses netcode patcher

thin comet
#

Just asking

daring oar
#

barber fixes is needed on all clients, but not because of custom networking, just because many of the barbers' bugs are client side and not server side

#

ventspawnfix is server side

dark hull
#

oh yea i think this might be a good time to let you know about this, BRB spawns a new GameObject every time you join a new lobby and it is never despawned

image.png
#

this isn't a big issue, since i doubt anyone would join and leave lobbies enough to cause a memory problem, but idk if you know this

daring oar
#

is this on v73?

dark hull
#

yes

#

latest version of BRB

#

it happened before too

daring oar
#

i havent updated for compatibility with v73 so if it's only happening there i would just chalk it up to a fluke

daring oar
#

i thought i checked if the networker existed before i instantiated a new one, but maybe i choked something somewhere

runic cobalt
#

I would be considered not that it's multiple gameobjects but that it's the networker

#

Concerned*

dark hull
#

the Instance is always assigned to the last one that spawned

#

so it doesn't cause any issues

runic cobalt
#

Oh yeah fair

daring oar
#

oh wait i think i see what's probably an issue

#

i assumed that it'd be destroyed when you disconnect and return to menu, but i guess since there's a static reference (and it's not loaded as part of a scene?) unity just isnt destroying it

dark hull
#

yea

runic cobalt
#

Uh I don't think that's how network objects decide it

#

There's a couple ways it could be staying alive

#

Your .Spawn having a false or true, can't remember which, for the first parameter

daring oar
#

oh

dark hull
#

i fixed it by calling this

    {
        if (Instance != null && Instance.gameObject.GetComponent<NetworkObject>().IsSpawned && (NetworkManager.Singleton.IsServer || NetworkManager.Singleton.IsHost))
        {
            Instance.gameObject.GetComponent<NetworkObject>().Despawn();
            HQRebalance.Logger.LogInfo("Network handler despawned");
        }
    }```
In a prefix to `GameNetworkManager.Disconnect`
daring oar
#

Lol

runic cobalt
#

Yee :p

#

If you spawn it in orbit you can assume it'll be in samplescene just fine

daring oar
#

yeah i feel like i'd probably want to just use this parameter and let nfgo handle it however "proper" is

dark hull
#

yea it is in that scene

image.png
runic cobalt
daring oar
#

idk if i'd need to network despawn it on the host when the lobby is closed or destroy it for each client

#

the latter seems kind of dangerous but idk if the former would work in all cases

runic cobalt
#

Nah at most you need to .Despawn on host when you wanna despawn it but letting unity handle it works well enough

dark hull
#

^

daring oar
#

i think the parameter is fine

runic cobalt
#

TECHNICALLY I think doing .Destroy On host does the same as .Despawn but this is definitely unrecommended and just me sharing a fun bad fact

dark hull
#

i will test that xd

runic cobalt
#

Yeah networkbehaviours should always have a reference to their network object

dark hull
#

that makes sense

dark hull
daring oar
#

nah i think i was just manufacturing lies in my palace of thought

#

based on the way i normally implement the singleton pattern

dark hull
#

this doesn't work because Awake does Instance = this and Awake runs before OnNetworkSpawn

dark hull
daring oar
dark hull
#

icic

daring oar
#

the fact that it's never running (at least, by design) is totally intended

runic cobalt
#

I think we also get stuff like PreNetworkSpawn with the new unity netcode update, I'd have to recheck the changelogs

#

Not that I can think of a use

#

But the unity netcode update is exciting :p

dark hull
#

it is really cool

daring oar
#

anyways im still in the process of adding new features and havent even tried compiling with the new netcode patcher yet

dark hull
#

SentTo.NotMe is gonna be so useful

daring oar
#

but i did update it and my postbuild so i think it should be good

#

i will definitely include the snowmen, spike trap distance "fix", and some dine scrap presets in the next version

runic cobalt
daring oar
runic cobalt
#

Zeekerss could rewrite so much of his rpc code to just use a .NotMe

daring oar
#

if i have time and it's easy i might implement the Stormy v. Jetpack thing too because i think it'd be really funny

#

but we'll see

daring oar
runic cobalt
#

This is the most important part of it

image-250.png
daring oar
dark hull
#

yep

runic cobalt
#

ServerRpc and ClientRpc are old news now too ueah

daring oar
#

i use that pattern right now for syncing crouch state across the server

runic cobalt
#

Yeah*

daring oar
#

for old birds and giants

runic cobalt
dark hull
#

yea now you can just call from client a method with [Rpc(SendTo.NotMe)] and it does the same thing

daring oar
#

idk i feel like in general im kinda scorched earth

#

if people want backwards compatibility they can always downgrade

runic cobalt
#

Yeah I agree, and I don't wanna keep doing repetitive rpc patterns anymore

daring oar
#

it is just much easier for me to work in the sandbox of "people using my stuff are playing on the same version im playing on" which is always latest

runic cobalt
#

I'm hopefully working with zaggy tonight to update the project patcher, no idea if we'll manage but if we do it'll be the last thing left for all mods to get back to updating

daring oar
#

there are probably many good arguments against that thought process but it is how i feel

daring oar
runic cobalt
#

Probably, but I do agree

daring oar
#

i wish you luck

runic cobalt
#

Thanks!

daring oar
#

work some magic

runic cobalt
#

I'm hoping for a miracle

daring oar
#

anyways just to make sure i understand this right... i could do something like this

[ServerRpc(RequireOwnership = false)]
internal void SyncCrouchingServerRpc(int playerID, bool crouching)
{
    SyncCrouchingClientRpc(playerID, crouching);
}

[ClientRpc]
internal void SyncCrouchingClientRpc(int playerID, bool crouching)
{
    PlayerControllerB player = StartOfRound.Instance.allPlayerScripts[playerID];
    if (player.IsOwner)
        return;

    player.isCrouching = crouching;
}

->

[Rpc(SendTo.NotMe)]
internal void SyncCrouchingRpc(int playerID, bool crouching)
{
    PlayerControllerB player = StartOfRound.Instance.allPlayerScripts[playerID];
    if (player != null)
        player.isCrouching = crouching;
}
#

yeah?

runic cobalt
#

Yep

#

Also you could skip a step by using an INetworkSerializable version of PlayerControllerB but that's besides the point

daring oar
#

well actually

#

i never thought about it until now

#

but i wonder why zeekerss never used NetworkObjectReference like he does with the sync scrap value RPC

#

maybe he thought passing a player index would be faster than resolving a NOR

#

or maybe he hadnt learned about the latter yet

#

i think almost every vanilla RPC that interacts with players (outside of the ones in PlayerControllerB, of course) pass an ID and resolve it from allPlayerScripts

runic cobalt
#

I believe so too, dunno why he doesn't use NetObjRef

#

Maybe it's just plainly more work to setup

daring oar
#

should be compatible with v73 although i havent had a chance to test anything in multiplayer

wind spoke
#

cool

dry current
#

hell yeah

daring oar
#

fuck yes chat

#

we're so back to lethal company hard crashing when i land on dine again

jagged nexus
#

Dine gets updated to be better