Chameleon

[quaint mason]

Yuh

[flat wraith]

taking breaks is important and your mods are some of my faves so the last thing I'd want is for you to work on shit without any motivation

shit like that do lead to burnouts

[rapid thicket]

I do really think this mod is amazing

[limber plover]

what about modded interiors

like a starlancer door

[meager ivy]

i dont think i will provide any custom support for modded interiors

there are too many of them and it opens the door to way more work that i'm not interested in pursuing myself

the next update to chameleon, whenever it may be, is planned to be "the custom moon configuration update"

so you can assign mineshaft variants to custom moons or change vanilla moon assignments

[cedar pagoda]

same, if there's any possibility i'd love to contribute to this mod someday 🙏

[meager ivy]

there are some wishlist features

i think it'd be cool to expose some sort of API so modders can define custom caverns

good examples being asteroid 14(?)

the beehive moon

or the cheese moon

[meager ivy]

this would also make a good wishlist feature

but implementationwise i think it will be kind of awkward

there is no clear-cut way to fetch exterior doors

i had to hardcode a hierarchy path for each vanilla moon to search

and then i also had to hardcode the position and rotation of the new door objects

automating that is next to impossible, so for custom moons to support that feature, they would have to provide that hardcoded data to chameleon

same would go for custom door types - they would need to provide their own position and rotation data

[cedar pagoda]

oh damn, it's that rough huh? 😭

[prisma zephyr]

I love the fact that it can be rainy on Gordion now, thank you

[meager ivy]

figured out why this is broken

i can fix it

[midnight otter]

Could you fix hoarding bug's antennas being broken when they die sometimes?

[meager ivy]

huh

[midnight otter]

Is that just a me thing? Sometimes their antennas will be detached and floating somewhere next to the body. I thought that was a vanilla bug

[meager ivy]

oh

it is just weirdness with the model probably

not really something for chameleon to fix

[acoustic bolt]

@meager ivy Seems if you decide to turn off Rainy March it causes a soft lock to happen when going into Orbit with no error

Jacu discovered it

[meager ivy]

can you describe further

like

is this just turning off rainy march in the config before you launch the game?

or if you turn it off using i.e. lethalconfig mid-game?

[acoustic bolt]

I had it turned off in a pack update I did, Jacu was testing march and the game soft locked on orbit I told him to try reenabling it and he said the problem was fixed

[meager ivy]

weird

i will look into it, but i don't know what could be causing that

[acoustic bolt]

Might be some weird bahavior with WeatherRgistry potentially

Idk

[meager ivy]

and there's nothing in the log?

you said?

[acoustic bolt]

I saw no errors in his log

[meager ivy]

if it caused a softlock i would at least expect it to throw an exception

[acoustic bolt]

Well CodeRebirth errored for him while he was solo

That might have set off a chain reaction

[meager ivy]

@acoustic bolt this issue does not reproduce for me with the provided steps

are you able to send the log

or are you aware of any additional info

[acoustic bolt]

Well apparently he was testing it with his group and not playing solo, so I would assume the person hosting the lobby got the error relating to the soft lock v.v

[meager ivy]

it is possible, yes

although the game returns to "orbit phase" only once all clients have finished unloading the scene

which calls some code

anyways, it is entirely possible for the game to "softlock" as long as one client is unable to call that code

which means the error could be in any player's log

or multiple

[acoustic bolt]

Yeah

[meager ivy]

if that is the case, then the game will continue once players disconnect

like, for example, if 3 players unload ok but 1 player gets an error, if any player (not just the one experiencing the error) disconnects, the game will proceed

it just counts how many players have unloaded the scene and subtracts from the expected number whenever a player DCs

[acoustic bolt]

Ik about this I'm just wondering which of their group errored out now

I think based on the info I got now one of their players just lagged out of the lobby cus March lagged really bad when they got Chizra

I let DemonMae know Chizra is still obliterating performance

[meager ivy]

anyways looking at my code i am relatively doubtful this error is caused by me

but as always, never say never

if you have more info i will take another look

let me know

[acoustic bolt]

Yeah I don't think so anymore either

[forest vapor]

I've had rainy March off in the config since Buttery made it a thing and have never soft locked, I don't use WeatherRegistry or CodeRebirth though

[cedar pagoda]

btw, it'd be nice to see some some screenshots added to the readme :P

[meager ivy]

they've been requested before

i never looked into how to actually embed them

but it is something i'd like to implement ye

most of my other mods don't need them, just a thumbnail (if a visual representation is even required)

but there's a lot of visual stuff in this one that would be nice to preview

[heady hatch]

Oh it’s really simple

One sec lemme grab it

For example

![Banner](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/288411969701150721/1293779048773713993/Banner.png?ex=67089d22&is=67074ba2&hm=16e5a919fcb4760105b4f678c514c6cbca88f0d51b3f1150fc4a82c6128ba44d&)

To embed

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/288411969701150721/1293779048773713993/Banner.png?ex=67089d22&is=67074ba2&hm=16e5a919fcb4760105b4f678c514c6cbca88f0d51b3f1150fc4a82c6128ba44d&

Although I don't think I'd reccomend using Discord as the image host, it doesn't always load properly if you do.

[meager ivy]

hmm ok

i would probably use imgur

[wild fox]

yeah imgur is best

[plucky turtle]

I'm pretty sure you can have the images be included in the mod itself and use them in the readme through that if you don't wanna rely on external hosts

[cedar pagoda]

btw, if you were serious about this, i've begun drafting up a model for a theoretical mineshaft entrance door

i'm not entirely sure on the design yet, i suppose my main concern is how it'd look from inside... the light coming through might be a bit much w/ the transparent wiremesh

[meager ivy]

i'm still open to it 🙂

probably not much in the way of feedback i can offer... i am no artist so i rate visuals with "wow that's cool" or "meh"

[meager ivy]

there can be some creative interpretation of the outdoor light, but it would be nice to keep it, since chameleon has a setting to recolor it for the current moon+weather

if it looks awful, though, no harm cutting it to make it more cohesive

[cedar pagoda]

for a bit of context, the vanilla outdoor light color would look something like this

maybe it's not that bad in the end

it'd definitely look better in the context of the game, lemme try smth

[cedar pagoda]

also yea, i wouldn't consider changing this :P if anything i'd consider changing the design of the door itself

[neon owl]

maybe replace this part with some kind of metal

[cedar pagoda]

i definitely considered this, it's not a bad suggestion

i think thicker mesh might be the answer tbh

OH WAIT LOL, just realized zeekers already made a thicker version of the wiremesh texture, i was wondering why it looked so thin lmao

[cedar pagoda]

yeah, this is a lot better i think

obviously, it'd look even better in-game :P

i'll continue working my way there

[serene lark]

What's with the yellow?

Wait that's the outdoor light..

mmmm I don't know I kinda think that looks really odd

The factory doors can get away with it because it just has small windows but these are full gratings

[neon owl]

yeah, kinda just ends up looking like the facility is floating in an orange void

[cedar pagoda]

i do agree tbh

it's just a shame because it'd look really nice from outside

don't worry, i have a backup concept as well

[serene lark]

I don't know if mineshafts necessarily need a unique interior door

I think lore wise the factory interiors are largely mining related as well

[mental crystal]

They don’t, the vanilla one works perfectly fine in mineshafts.

But it does look really cool though so?

[cedar pagoda]

toast gets it xP

[serene lark]

Why not just do a variant of the yellow doors?

The (inside) entrance doors of factory loosely resemble the ones inside the interior and same with mansion

[cedar pagoda]

this idea isn't too bad actually

[mental crystal]

Might look weird from outside

When the moons were inhabited (especially for the case of vow) they’d have a more secure door like the one on factory or the mineshaft concept you made to prevent the general public from getting inside. For their safety.

[serene lark]

I mean to be honest, the mansion doors on the outside look kind of weird.

No offense to the mod but yeah.

[mental crystal]

Why do none of them have a lock on the door?

Like out of the millions of factories, mansions, and mineshafts every player has visited, none have had a locked door outside

Seems counter intuitive considering we’re talking about private property that should be locked like factories and housing

[heady hatch]

Well they’re all abandoned

[cedar pagoda]

if my factory was lined with turrets, landmines, and biological weapons of war i probably wouldn't worry about locking it up either

it's plenty safe LMAO

just uh.. not safe for anyone who enters ig

[mental crystal]

To be fair I think those turrets, landmines, and other weapons came post-war

Rest of the monsters a product of time and natural wildlife

[cedar pagoda]

anyway, i'm tired. i'll see if there's anything else i can do with this concept some other time

[meager ivy]

it appears i am in the minority here

but i actually like how this looks

🥲

[hushed mango]

I think this looks really nice!

[split cargo]

it definitely looks all right, but I get the feeling the illusion will fall apart pretty quickly as you start to move around

[flat wraith]

I like it too yeah

I think if the model actually has some space behind the door to show there's stuff past it (since it's a fence door) it'll look better

like the experimentation main entrance but without that much space behind it

[hushed osprey]

i also think it looks nice

[flat wraith]

I think it'll look bomb as FUCK w the game's filters applied

[split cargo]

it's quite dangerous to put extra geometry outside the tile, but then again the mineshaft already does that with the entry tile so maybe it doesn't really matter

I'm not sure if Zeekers has fully prevented tiles from generating through the entrance doorway but one can hope so

[meager ivy]

there is still the occasional report of it in zeekcord

it's definitely less frequent than it used to be but it's not fixed

although, i will say, i'd personally like to set the limit that the new door should fit within the original tile

i don't want to modify the tile geometry, ideally i would just be disabling the door obj and replacing it with a new one

it might be possible to create the illusion of a tunnel behind the door using normal maps

[flat wraith]

possibly, yeah

[flat wraith]

the tunnel would be moreso a thing for the outside version of the door though, don't think we'd need a tunnel for the inside since it'd just be light shining thru into the interior (like the mockup here)

this looks just fine imo

[meager ivy]

sorry i was gonna post something but i got caught up

[flat wraith]

how dare you have a life! shakes fist angrily

[meager ivy]

vents use the normal map trick to make them look hollow on the inside

[neon owl]

god its so cool

seeing this blew my mind

[meager ivy]

in actuality it's just a flat texture with a super strong normal map

im not sure if it'll look wonky on a larger scale

but it's possible something similar could work

[glossy light]

the normal maps on the company building walls are mesmerizing..

[serene lark]

The thing is though is that it's just yellow, it doesn't really convey a look into the out doors depsite there being a clear view.

And like I said, factory doors can only get away with it because of the small windows.

[neon owl]

agreed. the model itself is really good, though

[serene lark]

It does, the door itself is well made.

[meager ivy]

well

[serene lark]

I guess the closest thing you could do is apply a viewport texture on the "outdoor" part

[neon owl]

probably getting too much into gameplay changing territory with something like that

it would probably look very cool, though

[serene lark]

It would definitely affect gameplay but it's the only way I think you could make it look good imho.

[neon owl]

i don't think it necessarily looks terrible but i agree otherwise, without changes to the model

[flat wraith]

I think it'll look just fine as is for the inside one

[meager ivy]

i think the reason i dont really mind

is im not looking at it like it's a viewport to the outside

it is kind of just an abstract "outside is brighter than inside, and there is light glowing in through this doorway"

i dont mind that the transition isn't seamless or 1:1 because there's already some creative interpretation happening anyway

how do the 4 march fire exits even work

in the context of the interior of the building

how does the manor's main room fit inside dine's main entrance

etc.

[flat wraith]

yeah exactly, you usually fill in the gaps w shit like this

[meager ivy]

i really like the mesh wire aesthetic and i think it's reasonable for it to just have black behind it

or light behind it, for the interior side

and i think it'd be a shame to limit the design of the doors to try and disguise how "the exterior" looks

just my take though

[flat wraith]

I 100% agree, yeah

[meager ivy]

also, just to get it out of the way...

[rapid thicket]

yeah I think having just the light plane is fine

[meager ivy]

the mineshaft door is going to be a config setting separate from the manor doors

if anybody is concerned about them

[flat wraith]

the tunnel illussion on the outside side was just kind of a suggestion to wrap it all up in a neat little bow, but generally speaking it's fine as is teehee

[meager ivy]

probably enabled by default (why waste the effort, eh? it looks cool 🙂) but you can use the vanilla mineshaft doors if you prefer

if necessary i could probably add multiple styles of mineshaft doors, if people are willing to donate a couple separate styles...

[serene lark]

I won't argue that Lethal's interiors don't make sense but I just don't think it looks good visually.

[flat wraith]

perhaps . . .

[rapid thicket]

that would be cool

[serene lark]

I do think there is somewhat of a (albeit forced) artistic choice in not giving a clear view into the outdoors from inside, hence why you don't see any windows.

[meager ivy]

that's true, but the entrance doors are a notable exception for both the factory and mineshaft

and the discussion is about mineshaft entrances anyway

so i still think it's ok

[dense canyon]

i was just thinking of that rn i'd fw it

[cedar pagoda]

pretty sure this is done using a displacement map, normals can only really go so far since all they can do is change the way light reflects off the material to trick the mind into seeing a bumpy surface. displacement maps are able to change the actual position of vertexes, creating actual faked perspective as seen here

the other most noteable displacement map use is that one concrete texture used for gordion and lots of the other maps

if you pay attention while walking up the concrete ramp to your ship on gordion, you can actually see the illusion breaking as the concrete warps as you move closer lmao

[meager ivy]

oh yeah, you're right

mbad

[flat wraith]

yeah that happens on all the concrete structures in the game

it's trippy as hell

[cedar pagoda]

nah nah ur all good, this is technical artist nerd stuff anyway xP lmao

[flat wraith]

if you get on top of concrete blocks with a jetpack/old bird boost you can see shit distorting to all hell

also happens when you go out of bounds and look at the ground from a certain angle... weird stuff

[cedar pagoda]

yeahh lmao.. most times displacement maps aren't given this much height to prevent things like this

guess zeekers just wanted it to look really jagged lmao

not really any better way to do that ig, besides making new geometry

which would be unreasonable considering the scale of the buildings

ANYWAY!! ah yes, the door

yeah it might look better with a faked tunnel effect using displacement maps

i'll have to see i guess

i can also see if i can manipulate the yellow door from the actual mineshaft into an alternate door

...might need someone to help me open up the game files tho 😓

i've decompiled the game before, but i haven't opened it in unity yet

[flat wraith]

Oh I think I know someone

[acoustic bolt]

@meager ivy do you know if this mod is inadvertantly trying to touch custom interiors in some ways sometimes? I disabled it today per @wintry nymph's suggestion and the issues and lag and stuff I was getting with Generic's Storehouse interior went away

[meager ivy]

i would have to double check to be 100% sure, but as far as i am aware, no... all the code runs after scene loading one time and then it is done

[acoustic bolt]

Okay yeah cus it's very interesting that disabling it solved a lot of lag issues and stuff I was getting

I had disabled it along with YesFox and it solved a number of my issues, I really hope the lag stuff with the fox can be somehow fixed

[flat wraith]

@silent all thanks to the man, the myth, the legend @violet scarab

wait it didn't silent the message FUCK

[dapper wharf]

It's most prob to be yesfox

[violet scarab]

Lol it's fine 🤣

[flat wraith]

SHIT

OIASDJIOSAMIO

[acoustic bolt]

Nah I had lag even without YesFox just not as bad

[cedar pagoda]

oh thanks!.. ngl i had these models already, the main thing i was needing was the actual unity instances, smth you can't get from just decompiling the assets due to the way things are encrypted :P

[violet scarab]

Oh I can do that to

But it would be a lot more files and everything would need to be in the right place with the right id so that wouldn't work very well

[flat wraith]

oh PFFT

my baaad

bothered my man's for nothing 😔

[violet scarab]

if you don't want the files in your project you can make a dummy prefab with a dummy model in it with the correct metadata. Adding this prefab as a reference in unity would work and then the correct model would load in the game

I have the metadata if you want to try this idea. I think It would work but haven't tested to see if it does

[violet scarab]

nevermind the IDs are all messed up when exporting

[split cargo]

if you're looking at making an illusion, the floor at the company uses parallax

not sure if that effect falls apart with extreme bump depths though

normal maps could do it kinda a little but probably the main thing is to bake some sort of texture with some lighting and/or ambient occlusion in it

[split cargo]

oh wait yeah this is the parallax bump map, but that (should be) different from a normal map

kinda incredible to me that the effect doesn't fall apart with such an extreme depth though, back when games used to use parallax bump maps it would have some pretty bad precision and lead to lots of banding

this has some of that but it's much less apparent

just to be clear for anyone interested, in order, this is 1. all maps, 2. normal map removed, 3. height map removed

the height map itself doesn't actually affect shading as far as I know, so some lighting would have to be baked for it to look good

it should be possible to use blender to create some geometry behind the door and then bake AO, normals and a bump map from that onto a quad

[neon owl]

yeah, but then the question is: what should it look like

[split cargo]

I'm thinking something that either fades to a dark color or a very blurred screenshot of the outside of some map (or multiple, selected based on the map type, be it grassy, sandy or snowy?)

certainly is very tricky business though I won't lie

[mental crystal]

So like shadows of bushes on forest maps

[meager ivy]

well

if it doesnt get removed

i was planning to make it happen during foggy and during eclipsed

although i will probably scale it back for eclipsed

make it less dense

altho im sort of expecting zeekerss will keep it and make it a rare event

as is usual with most of his seasonal additions

like the gift boxes

or, more recently, hoarding bug infestations

[final wagon]

it would make sense to happen in foggy moons

[flat wraith]

scaling it back for both would probably be a good idea because god is it obtrusive

[meager ivy]

well

foggy is already miserable so it sets that precedent pretty well

the worst foggy multiplier is still worse than the interior fog

for eclipsed it'd be more about atmosphere though

[flat wraith]

the thing with foggy is it forces you to remember the layout of a moon between rounds

you can't really uh, memorize a randomly generated maze

and if brackens getting pissed off if you look at em long enough can still happen even with fog in the way then I'm afraid it might fuck people over on a whole different level lol

[flat wraith]

like it's not a game knowledge thing it's just playing with a blind fold on

for eclipsed it'd be cool though, yeah (esp since it'd be scaled back)

[indigo elbow]

Fuck we where testing earlier (had to delay our proper session 'cause the update dropped while we where setting up and stuff broke) and thankfuly we didn't run into a Bracken, didn't even consider that.
Gunuinely don't know what Zeekerss was thining with this. The skins and sounds are really fun but the fog makes everything SO much more difficult, specially dealing with spike traps and turrets.

[meager ivy]

the birthdayversary lasted like

just short of 2 days

i think he is just making the events really intense and memorable since he knows they will last a short time in the public scope anyway

the fog is spooky and kind of a fun challenge for a day

[flat wraith]

the fog is basically just the steam valve gimmick from facility but map-wide and toned down a bit yea

[meager ivy]

and will probably be gone tomorrow

[flat wraith]

yah

I don't expect it to remain in the game for long, and if it is it'll be toned down like infestations I assume

[meager ivy]

it defo toes the line on "too intense" especially for every single game

i wouldnt have minded it being toned down a bit before the update released

but im also not too bothered to just live with it for a day

[flat wraith]

reminds me of when people did the weekly challenge moon thing for the first month it was there

[meager ivy]

i think it has potential to be cool as a permanent rare event though, so long as the density is reduced

[flat wraith]

I need to get my sweat pals and grind those out, but it's a bit demotivating seeing that people just cheat on those lmao

[indigo elbow]

Would be interesting as a gimmick of some new moon

[flat wraith]

I remember me and some buds got into the top 50 on the first or second one that day it dropped and then I scrolled up and the top 10 were all 9999s

[flat wraith]

perhaps one with a space theme, with coil heads and such!

possibly with a number designation?

that's a sweet spot between the number 12 and 14, hmmyes what a brilliant idea my friend

https://tenor.com/view/facts-brother-true-smoke-gif-23157983

[indigo elbow]

Think it'd be really nice to have creature's detection ranges scale by fog/steam too.
That way the Bracken thing wouldn't be a problem

[flat wraith]

I remember someone suggesting that at some point in the past, esp for giants

would be so cool if giants had a harder time spotting you in fog

[indigo elbow]

Yar. Think FairGiants actuallyimplements it too.

[flat wraith]

actually I think there's a stat called fog view in the game

[flat wraith]

there is actually

though idk what fog it relates to?

I think it's supposed to be the facility fog

like uuuh the steam leak

[indigo elbow]

Mayyybe. Though I couldn't think of where it's utilised. Gosh I've been murdered by pissed brackens emerging from steam and also hidden turrets so many times.

[meager ivy]

thsi is a mechanic in vanilla

giants have 70 vision range normally and 30 in foggy weather

fairgiants just applies it to the snowy moons as well and lets you reduce the range even further (it defaults to ~23.33)

[indigo elbow]

Ohh

[serene lark]

I don't know if I'm even alright with entertaining the idea of bringing it back for foggy weather if it ends up getting removed. (which I doubt it will considering the trends)

[rapid thicket]

I think if its possible to dial it back a little its fine

[meager ivy]

well. all will be configurable

if you hate it you can just turn it off

[serene lark]

Well hopefully you make it off by default. >>

[neon owl]

it doesnt really make sense imo

not that everything has to be 100% realistic, but fog doesn't exist indoors just because it's foggy outside

[glossy light]

im craving the experimentation titan

[flat wraith]

ooo neato

honestly never notice it cuz they still feel like they can spot you from anywhere LOL

[flat wraith]

oooh that's cool

[rapid thicket]

while I do think the current fog for the Halloween update is too thick I think more of a misty fog could work well for the interiors on foggy moons (probably at the very least being able to see farther than 1 room) also its nice to have that choice for foggy interiors even if its automatically disabled

[heady sapphire]

Does Chameleon have mod developer extension support, or plan to? I've been wanting to create a Gorgonzola variant of the Mineshaft interior, but for filesize reasons I don't really want to package the entire interior again, and I'm unfortunately not a coder

[meager ivy]

it does not currently but in the long term it's something that i think i'd like to support

gorgonzola is actually one of the examples i keep citing for that

[heady sapphire]

Woo

It'd be awesome to have it and if you're ever interested I can provide textures and such for it

[meager ivy]

im just about to head to bed so dont expect to hear from me right away

but i figured i might as well post this, since it's already ready

if you want to give chameleon 1.2.0 a try, install the latest version from thunderstore, then move these 2 files to the mod's directory (replace when prompted)

this version supports customizing mineshaft variant weights

and should allow you to assign them to any modded moons of your choice

i did a little bit of testing and "it works" but i fully expect there to be some circumstances i haven't addressed

and i'd like to make the mod page look nicer (need to update the config section, and i want to add screenshots)

so i won't be posting this on thunderstore tonight

but i would appreciate any input people have

so i can be super duper sure it's stable and ready for full release

oh yeah and the gravel caves are still kinda ugly and subject to change, if you have anything you want to say about them

open to feedback on those. at the very least i think the water color looks bad, but gray caves are surprisingly drab in general

you'd think it'd be a more natural fit

[neon owl]

does this support moon makers setting their moon's weights?

[meager ivy]

not at this point in time

but it is something i would like to handle

it will probably come around the same time i add support for custom caverns

for now everything is dependent on the user

[meager ivy]

out of curiosity would anybody like to weigh in on how they want this to be addressed?

i could pretty easily add an API to chameleon that would let you define explicit cavern types and weights

but that would require you to write custom code for your moon mod

the other option is tags, which i do plan to support already, but automated results are unlikely to be as robust as manually setting variant weights

[rapid thicket]

at the time you do that it would be nice to have it so you can do the mansion doors thing as well

[meager ivy]

iirc batby was theorycrafting about adding some additional fields to LLL defs

that i could use for that purpose

im not sure if anything ever came of that, but if that is supported, probably would be the best way to go about supporting it on my end

[meager ivy]

i think the main thing i dont like about the gravel caves is the water color

any suggestions?

i think murky black water would be cool, but right now the water is the only source of color amidst all the gravel

except for the generator props

and obv the scrap

[radiant vine]

Keep the water its natural color

(water in gravel is still clear)

[meager ivy]

i can make it look kind of iridescent 🤔

two separate colors

[flat wraith]

I think greyish blue water works just fine

though iridescent also looks cool

[meager ivy]

this is blue + purple

unfortunately this is kind of a huge hassle to iterate on because there's so much math involved with changing the color in unityexplorer

i think i like how this looks though

[flat wraith]

ooo

I do like that

water in LC's usually ourple and the iridescence makes it look like it's some cool special water or smth

[meager ivy]

oh, hello there

alright im gonna go with this for now

im not sure if anybody has had much time to try 1.2 yet

but i think im just gonna grab some screenshots and then release

and i will be on standby if anything is horribly broken

sorry for the delay in getting this latest update out - i was on hiatus from LC for a bit and even after my return it was a bit difficult working up the motivation to touch this again

i think it's just harder to energize myself for working on "creative" projects compared to bug fixes or mechanical patches

i didn't want to release the next version until i had forced myself to get custom moon config ready

which wound up only being like 2.5 hours of work, but it was 2.5 hours i didn't have the mindset to finish until yesterday night

[rapid thicket]

I've used it and its quite nice

I haven't encountered any bugs yet

[heady hatch]

Oh that one looks great

[heady hatch]

Real

I had my Windows XP Emblem theme nearly finished since May, but I only posted it a couple weeks ago <.<

[radiant vine]

thats perfect

[neon owl]

some sort of script you can add to your moon's scene that Chameleon will look for and use values from

[meager ivy]

i could work with that, but who is going to define that script?

would i just need to add a class in chameleon for moon authors to import into their scene

im not 100% sure how loading mods in unity editor works

[neon owl]

JLL is a good example to look at

you just import it into unity and then you can add scripts from the mod to gameobjects

i can't really explain the technical side but i'm sure jacob would be willing to help

[meager ivy]

ahh dammit

i just got done taking all my screenshots before i realized it was default resolution

i was gonna take them at 970x580 since they were stills

🥲

as long as i dont fuck up the formatting too bad this will be going on thunderstore within the hour

alright, v1.2.0 is finally live. i am deeply grateful for your patience

hopefully it was worth the wait!

[meager ivy]

v1.2.0

• Added screenshots to Thunderstore page
• Now you can customize which moons have which types of caverns (includes modded levels)
• New "Gravel" cavern type
• Fixed helmet condensation not working on Gordion
• Fixed "EclipsesBlockMusic" setting being ignored

[heady hatch]

Looks great!

[quaint mason]

Random recommendation: Blizzard sfx (re?)added to Dine and Titan

I don't think they're present on them, or at least I haven't noticed

I know for sure they're not on Titan though

[meager ivy]

it appears that zeekerss intentionally made the blizzard extremely quiet on dine

the blizzard sfx still plays through another audio source, and the blizzard object copied from rend has a bunch of triggers tied to it to set its volume to 0

i feel like that kinda makes sense too because dine has way less intense weather

rend's snowstorm is so bad you can't see 10 feet in front of you but dine is pretty clear, all things considered

as for titan, titan is just outright missing the blizzard ambience object

but i think that's also probably intentional because titan's weather is extremely calm

i probably wont mess with titan but maybe dine could be more intense

it's hard to say for sure if it is an oversight or intentional design for either

[acoustic bolt]

@meager ivy Couldn't land on Triskelion, it threw this error

[meager ivy]

oh i see what's the proble

m

i originally had something to account for this but i think it got shuffled around when i was rewriting some stuff and lost in the sauce

i will put out a hotfix right quick

[meager ivy]

v1.2.1 resolves this issue

but im not sure that you aren't running into some other bug

because even when i replicated the issue, the ship still landed and let me play the game just fine

chameleon just complained

[rapid thicket]

I'm excited for the possible non mineshaft interior variants

[final wagon]

Idk why the breaker box is the only light that doesn't go off, but it should when the apparatus is pulled

what do you think

[mental crystal]

Has its own battery so the old inhabitance can find the breaker box if the lights go off

[meager ivy]

i could probably do something about this

the breaker box is useless once the apparatus is unplugged so i dont think anybody will miss the light

[warm vine]

what if i cried

[meager ivy]

Sorry

[gritty tendon]

would be logical if it would turn off ye, as without apparatus all power is gone

does the red light above fire exits turn off if you remove the apparatus ? i never really paid attention to this

btw i was wondering, @meager ivy
what do you think about adding an apparatus tile to the mineshaft and the manor ?
i think it would be a great addition
the power for the manor and mineshaft also need to come from somewhere, the apparatus seems to be quite important in the lore, and it would make it more present on late game moons

[mental crystal]

I think she wants Chameleon to stay client side. Adding a new tile would require everyone to install the mod.

[gritty tendon]

ah ye thats right

[copper rampart]

make the mansion fake windows shut off with the breaker off?

[meager ivy]

oh that'd be cool

[versed hull]

I wonder how that fake window image looks inverted

[meager ivy]

chameleon is clientside and will remain clientside

so i cant add new tiles or apparatus spawns

i think that's the sort of thing someone else could probably do better than me anyhow

[meager ivy]

i am interested in this suggestion

[meager ivy]

and this suggestion

the latter is going to be kind of hard

but i think it is achievable

[serene lark]

It should be doable although I'd imagine it'd be hacky.

You would have to find all window room tiles and update them any time the power is switched on and off.

[meager ivy]

yeah

the thing that makes it more annoying is that the window material is a submaterial of the room's mesh

like 5th in the list

[final wagon]

What if

We had Stench of Death in Chameleon

[meager ivy]

what does everyone think of the windows turning off

do you think it should just darken the screen so you need a flashlight to see it

or do you think it'd be better full black

i have mixed opinions on this

[radiant vine]

That’s terrifying

Also flashlight to see it

[final wagon]

Flashlight to see it

[radiant vine]

I always thought of it as glass or wall paper in front of lights

[final wagon]

Althrough is a bit weird

[meager ivy]

that's kinda how it feels to me too

i just wasn't sure if it gave off the right effect when it was turned off

or if making it full black for better contrast helped it deliver better

[final wagon]

The stone wall at the back feels weird, but it's the right way in my opinion

Or is that clouds

I forgor

[meager ivy]

this but without the glow

[flat wraith]

I'd say fully black

[meager ivy]

at the very least i think it ought to be darker than this

but it is a promising result

at least

[final wagon]

Do a poll

[meager ivy]

i think this sells the illusion pretty well

[serene lark]

I'd say still have it partially visible with flashlight, its technically a stain glass so the color would still be there

[copper rampart]

what about a setting...i kinda like full black

[meager ivy]

i do like how it looks without full black

but for a couple of reasons i will probably wind up making it full black

we will see how easily i will be able to accomodate expanding on this feature

[rapid thicket]

you could make it a config for full black or not

[serene lark]

I do think it's more logical to have it be not full black because the glass of the window itself is probably stained glass

[neon owl]

i think it's some sort of screen judging based on the scanlines

stained glass wouldnt be able to replicate that level of detail

[meager ivy]

yeah i think it's supposed to be a screen

[flat wraith]

yeahs...

[meager ivy]

something sort of neat

the "desert" caves were created by using the boulder tex from assurance/offense on the cave walls

i thought it'd look good because the vanilla caves use the exact same texture, just grayscaled + recolored to a sandier tan color

but anyways

i just now noticed the key art for v60 seems to take place in an earlier version of the caverns where they might've still been using the OG tex

you can see the streaks of gray in the orange

and the flashlight color doesnt seem to be altered

so it's not a filter over the image

[final wagon]

nice touch

[meager ivy]

lol

i just dont have that many ideas for the factory

in general

i want to do brick color variations

and for forest moons

it might be cool to have like

moss growing in the bricks

outside of that

¯_(ツ)_/¯

factory had the cool door lights

up until mineshaft got those too

im still open to it, yes

i haven't heard from the person that was designing it in some time now

they've been inactive for a bit

[final wagon]

Snow falling from up there on snowy moons

accumulates down there

[meager ivy]

oh that would be cool yea

everyone is so much better about thinking of ideas than i am

Lol

[final wagon]

i always forget that Experimentation has these orange bricks

[meager ivy]

yeah there are a couple different colors of bricks

even inside the factory some of the rooms have slightly different shades

[final wagon]

now that i think about... we could have rain there too

THINK

[meager ivy]

the "pipe room" (?) has two different brick colors in the same room

[meager ivy]

adding rain would probably be pretty effortless

there's technically not any snow particles so i'd have to design something new that looks good in the style

but that shouldn't be too difficult

[meager ivy]

(in vanilla snow is just really thick fog)

[final wagon]

the big room with a giant pipe in the middle?

i never noticed

i don't have a good GPU, so i was never able to see fog

[wild fox]

this

I assume

I just look at wikis and see that they call it a Manufacturing Room

[rapid thicket]

I suggested that to be a variant a while ago

[rapid thicket]

if you do changes to the brick colors it would be cool if the "office" room should be changed as well

[neon owl]

i feel like just changing the materials of some tiles to other vanilla textures would be enough honestly

like every tile having a chance to spawn with some random variation of materials

i dont know how feasible that is though

[rapid thicket]

I personally like it better with the interior types being per moon rather then entirely random

also I'm not sure how well it would mix with the tiles having different colors

because there wouldn't be any inbetween bits (or if there was that would probably be quite difficult)

[copper rampart]

this is a closed in room, this makes no sense!

also vanilla doesn't have a snow effect other than the blizzard

[neon owl]

well it wouldnt really make sense for it to just be a giant industrial fan in a closed room

[neon owl]

would be cool if this mod added a random snow effect on snowy moons

[final wagon]

I never saw it as a closed room honestly, I always thought that it was the only room connected to the outside in some way because we're in a factory... If it didn't have a ventilation system probably it wouldn't even function because of the heat

[copper rampart]

well presumably it does connect to some sort of ventilation but it likely does not lead directly overhead, making it so it'd be very hard for snow to get in

[final wagon]

I do see the point in being a closed room in some sense

[copper rampart]

honestly i'd really like a little mod that made the top texture in that room a grating, added a fake sky texture above, and replaced the light with skylight. it's a very neat idea

[final wagon]

I think the snow could get there, even if it's some little particles

Outside is like a snowstorm going on, is kinda hard snow to not get in

But rain is a bit hard

That effect from the mineshaft of water driping could work

I'm just trowing some ideas because factory wasn't getting any attention 😭

[split cargo]

I was never sure if this light was supposed to be sunlight, does it actually change colors based on the sun color on the surface?

[heady hatch]

iirc it has a slight effect on the visor

[copper rampart]

no?

[rapid thicket]

what if during rain weather you could just have those randomly throughout the mansion/factory

leaks in the ceiling

[final wagon]

Small things worth mentioning i guess? Most of the main entrances have this black square in the the gap of the door

Except the main entrance in Experimentation

also idk why the door was blue when i took the print XD

And inside will always have a color: blue, orange or green

It will keep that color even if it's past 22:00

which...

it could get darker as the day progress i guess?

[radiant vine]

I like that idea

[meager ivy]

i can maybe make the door color darken through the day

[meager ivy]

this is more or less intentional

experimentation is the only map with a fully modeled interior

everywhere else just has a giant concrete wall behind it

i could put a black wall on experimentation too, for consistency, but it's not a major issue i feel

holy shit i am so bad at typing today

[neon owl]

this is absolutely way more trouble than it could ever possibly be worth.... buuuuut it'd be cool if parameters from the moon's sun were used to automatically and dynamically adjust the color of the little window

[final wagon]

It's a shame that it isn't used, it would be cool if the main entrace was inside of the building

[mental crystal]

I can’t find it but there’s a mod in the works for that

[flat wraith]

#1202534076855357480

I believe this is what you're looking for

https://tenor.com/view/im-from-the-cityyyyyy-gif-4548670119770313438

[meager ivy]

lol i could actually do that pretty easily

at least for the vanilla moons

but the problem is modded moon compat

and also, light colors don't translate 1:1 to door colors

or they look kinda ugly

so i manually defined the door palettes

[neon owl]

hmmm

i dont think modded moons will be a huge issue

for the most part their hierarchy, for lighting at least, should just be structured exactly like whatever moon they copied it from (most likely assurance)

[flat geyser]

i love this mod so much

all the little details it adds are so good

[glossy light]

WRONG…

[rapid thicket]

indeed

[acoustic bolt]

I will say after lots of experiences with the Ice Caves I think the textures make the caves look too same-ey compared to the other variants, making it way easier to get lost

[meager ivy]

lol

imo the ice caves are the easiest variant because they are so bright that they are the easiest to explore with a dead flashlight

or underwater

all of the cavern variants are the same texture tiled indefinitely, so i haven't felt that effect much, personally

also i feel like weirdly enough i have the easiest time remembering the path back through the cavern shapes compared to manor or factory halls/rooms

although it can definitely be tricky when going in deep

[serene lark]

I love the ice caves, in fact I kinda tend to see them more than the regular caves lol

So seeing a normal cave is kind of like a jumpscare to me

[warm vine]

tbh i think gravel is the hardest with how many details get obscured by the dark texture

[acoustic bolt]

Oh I love them too, the problem just is that the caves always look the same so if you go deep enough in it's easier to get lost

Idk why

[heady hatch]

I mean you could try following your footprints if that’s feasible

[silent lava]

The one and only use for spraypaint

Navigation in the caves

[heady sapphire]

^

[mental crystal]

Combine it with BetterSprayPaint and it’s actually mildly fun to use

Although whenever I purchase spray paint the ship gets a new paint job and the buildings lack graffiti so take that how you will.

[barren socket]

!

Here's the thing

In this fashion

When you arrive on the planet, the first dungeon is generated and the door texture is selected for it

But since there are dynamic dungeons, he does not take into account that there may be something else and does not change the doors...

I don't know how to explain this...

Well, apparently DynamicInterier works like that...

@meager ivy Is it possible to make a texture check based on it - so that it accurately places doors with textures correctly - checking the door inside the dungeon complex?

Everything inside is correct, as it should be.

[meager ivy]

well

i check the dungeon type that gets generated by the dungeon generator object

as far as i can tell there's no reason it shouldn't be consistent

[barren socket]

ok, I'll wait for the update for DynamicInterier :3

That is...

it somehow generates the generation id twice

and apparently at this moment something is happening

In short, it's hard for me to understand...

[spiral grail]

Weird, that hasn't happened to me

[barren socket]

Do you have DynamicInterier?

[spiral grail]

And I'm using quite a lot of interiors

[spiral grail]

Ye 👍

[barren socket]

Hm

Well apparently this happened to me...

Although I limited some of the interiors

For example, so that on vanilla moons there is only a vanilla interior

With DynamicInterier

[spiral grail]

Maybe it's related to custom moons, I'm only using the vanilla ones

[rapid thicket]

Chameleon doesn't work on modded moons I believe

[barren socket]

But I was on the vanilla moon...

[rapid thicket]

oh

uhhhh

[barren socket]

Yes I have LLL

With settings and everything

[rapid thicket]

yeah probably something going wrong

[meager ivy]

I've ported the sunshine effects from ButteryFixes to this mod and I made it a config setting

if you use celestial tint or anything similar, you will need to turn off PlanetPreview

it no longer automatically disables itself when detecting other mods

this update also includes snowy giant skins

i'm not 100% happy with the texture and will probably tweak it in the future, but I'm open to feedback on what you think

it probably won't cause disastrous issues with enemy skin kit and mods that use it, but if you use other giant skins you should probably turn off the setting to be safe

[acoustic bolt]

Did you also fix it breaking after being fired?

If you get fired the sun goes away lol

And it doesn't even throw an error

[acoustic bolt]

Compatible with EnemySkinRegistry?

[meager ivy]

that is intentional

it makes the firing scene look weird so i turned it off but it's supposed to come back on when you respawn

[acoustic bolt]

Yeah it doesn't, I think you have to land and go back in orbit to fix it

[meager ivy]

lol

well

i pretty much copy pasted the code from butteryfixes into chameleon

so that is probably still an issue

but i guess i will try to hotfix that

okay

i see what the problem is

[meager ivy]

i hotfixed this in 1.2.4

[meager ivy]

it's "compatible" if you turn off enemyskinregistry for the giants

and it's probably still loosely compatible even if you dont

depending on which executes first

i would not necessarily encourage using the giant setting at the same time as you use giant skins in the registry

but you are free to try it

[mental crystal]

Any images of the snowy giant?

[barren socket]

The config was not immediately updated from 1.2.2 :с

I had to delete it manually

[meager ivy]

weird, i only added two new settings

[meager ivy]

lol i should put a screenshot on the thunderstore page, i was just tired and lazy

it might change a bit anyway

[rapid thicket]

I didn't have that problem

[barren socket]

and you try to install LCVR and then delete it, if you had a 1.2.2 config and did not update, then you will immediately see the problems

[rapid thicket]

oh ok

[barren socket]

or this is an isolated case only with me...

I just sometimes copy configs from profile to profile, but even if there was a 1.2.2 config there. and when starting with a new version, he didn't want to create a new one, then I don't know...

[slate cosmos]

Disable PlanetPreview in Chameleon.

[barren socket]

https://github.com/DaXcess/LCVR/issues/279

[slate cosmos]

Config even mentions that.

You should disable this if you encounter lighting issues on the ship.

[barren socket]

already done, good people from the chat helped later, when the config was manually deleted and updated, with disabling this option

[analog cosmos]

[slate cosmos]

It updated for me just fine. 🤷

[barren socket]

well, here I say that the problem was that the config was not updated, but the light function remained, so that's all it is, now everything is fine

[analog cosmos]

Will it ever available for mobile?

[barren socket]

Nope

[analog cosmos]

😢

[barren socket]

Maybe

Idk

[analog cosmos]

Np

[mental crystal]

Probably not, none other of Zeekerss games are and no mobile device could run the game smoothly in the modern age.

Not to mention Zeekerss is just one person making games because he wants to. Porting to other platforms is a lot of work.
Not to mention porting a game to apple’s App Store is an absolute pain, in fact porting anything to iOS or mac is a nightmare in general to both do and maintain. Android would be fine, but there is still the hardware issue.

It’s possible to be ported to console, but again it’d be a lot of work for one person.

Right now the only platforms LC is available on is Windows and Linux.
-# I was pretty sure it’s not officially supported for Linux but people play it on there anyway?

[analog cosmos]

Alright

[analog cosmos]

You are friend of buttery ?

[mental crystal]

No

But technically many dictators in history would be buttery’s enemy simply for being bad people.
And the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So-

[analog cosmos]

🥵

[mental crystal]

Were you asking if Chameleon will come to mobile?

If that’s what you were asking then no, it won’t. That’s because it is a mod for Lethal Company and Lethal Company is not on mobile.

[mental crystal]

I mentioned the reasons why above ^

[slate cosmos]

🤨

[analog cosmos]

I already understood

[flat geyser]

"reply me buttery please"

dog 😭

[mental crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/snake-salute-mgs3-gif-9277925

[wide pecan]

After the chameleon update, I'm getting blinding brightness similar to a Buttery fixes bug from about a month ago

[slate cosmos]

Check change log/configs.

[wide pecan]

For?

[slate cosmos]

It's the planet setting.

#1280017266200674314 message

[wide pecan]

Mkay I'll take a look

This was a better explanation why the config should be turned off. I missed this #1280017266200674314 message

[slate cosmos]

Well, I'm no Buttery. I just knew how to fix it.

[wide pecan]

I'm not saying you are 🙂 I wanted to understand if it was a workaround for the issue or if it was a required setting. Buttery had explained earlier so I was just reposting

[soft parcel]

What can I do to solve this problem?

[dapper wharf]

Disable planet preview if you have CelestialTint

[soft parcel]

i see

[copper rampart]

does poweroffwindows use the full black or the mostly dark, from when that was being decided?

[meager ivy]

for now it is "mostly dark"

that might chanage in the future for a particular reason

[bronze imp]

what the light happened

and u can see the ship shadow somehow

[mental crystal]

@bronze imp
Turn off planet preview in chameleon config if you’re using celestial tint

[bronze imp]

oh ok thank you

[wide pecan]

Could it be possible for Chameleon and LLL to conflict and cause loading issues? I've been having an issue when LLL tries to generate a mineshaft dungeon lately. Since Chameleon has a configc for the mineshaft I'm curious if there's a conflict. I disabled chameleon for now but mineshaft hasn't come up in the randomizer pool to repro

Here are some logs where the issue happens

[versed hull]

I think this isn't my fault based off that log but Buttery lmk if I've done something

[wide pecan]

and just want to say, I'm not accusing anyone being at "fault" just calling out issues and where I'm seeing patterns and overlaps 🙂

[versed hull]

naur your chilling

[wide pecan]

[wide pecan]

So Something else I read in logs, which may nullify the idea that chameleon and LLL are overlapping - at launch I get a chunky error from HarmonyX

Starting with:
Line 315: [04:15:06.3019517] [Error : HarmonyX] Failed to patch bool DunGen.DungeonGenerator::ShouldSkipFrame(bool isRoomPlacement): System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection.

Which is the same error in the stack trace when mineshaft is executed

[versed hull]

that's likely another mod doing that

[meager ivy]

whatever is throwing that error is probably what is responsible

i dont have any more information than that and can't look too deeply into the logs

right now

[wide pecan]

Right on! My guess is Loadstone but when you have a chance to look yourselves I'm more than happy to make changes. If I figure it out before either of you get a chance I'll let you know what the issue was ^w ^7

[meager ivy]

[07:14:04.0252853] [Error  :  HarmonyX] Failed to patch bool DunGen.DungeonGenerator::ShouldSkipFrame(bool isRoomPlacement): System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[T].get_Item (System.Int32 index) [0x00009] in <787acc3c9a4c471ba7d971300105af24>:IL_0009 
  at HarmonyLib.CodeMatcher.get_Operand () [0x0000c] in <474744d65d8e460fa08cd5fd82b5d65f>:IL_000C 
  at HarmonyLib.CodeMatcher.SetOperandAndAdvance (System.Object operand) [0x00000] in <474744d65d8e460fa08cd5fd82b5d65f>:IL_0000 
  at Loadstone.Patches.AsyncDungeonPatches.ShouldSkipFrameTranspiler (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] instructions) [0x000ec] in <87a166fcee6c4f4d82f6dabd7a8c5df9>:IL_00EC 

loadstone is in the call stack

so it is probably loadstnoe

that being said i use both loadstone and chameleon and don't have issues, so it might be something to do with

your config

or a mod might be interfering with loadstone

[07:14:04.0650555] [Fatal  : Loadstone(Transpiler)] Loadstone failed to patch Loadstone.Patches.NavmeshPatches. The following exception was received:
HarmonyLib.HarmonyException: IL Compile Error (unknown location) ---> HarmonyLib.HarmonyException: IL Compile Error (unknown location) ---> System.InvalidProgramException: Invalid IL code in DMD<RoundManager::SpawnOutsideHazards>?-69208534:SpawnOutsideHazards (RoundManager): IL_062e: call      0x0a000043

[07:14:04.0685369] [Error  :  HarmonyX] Failed to patch void RoundManager::GenerateNewLevelClientRpc(int randomSeed, int levelID, int moldIterations, int moldStartPosition, int[] syncDestroyedMold): System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[T].get_Item (System.Int32 index) [0x00009] in <787acc3c9a4c471ba7d971300105af24>:IL_0009 
  at HarmonyLib.CodeMatcher.get_Opcode () [0x0000c] in <474744d65d8e460fa08cd5fd82b5d65f>:IL_000C 
  at HarmonyLib.CodeMatcher.SetOpcodeAndAdvance (System.Reflection.Emit.OpCode opcode) [0x00000] in <474744d65d8e460fa08cd5fd82b5d65f>:IL_0000 
  at Loadstone.Patches.ScreenDarkenPatches.GenerateNewLevelPatch (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] instructions) [0x00054] in <87a166fcee6c4f4d82f6dabd7a8c5df9>:IL_0054 

etc.

[wide pecan]

I'll take a look at them, the only config settings of the three that's not set to their defaults are the PlanetViewer -> set to False and Moon Preview in Terminal to show all instead of just the weather

[tardy parrot]

@meager ivy

Good day!

[analog cosmos]

[wide pecan]

Oop! I think I may have fixed it. I managed to get the HarmonyX Failed to patch void RoundManager::GenerateNewLevelClientRp error from occurring as well as some other errors that were coming up. About to to run a test 🤞

Success!!

So I had to uninstall

• MeleeFixes
• LoadStoneNightly
• BepInEx Faster Load Asset Budel Patcher

After removing those three and checking that their config files were also removed, I was able to get into a moon with the mineshaft dungeon without any issues and the errors in my logs reduced

Thanks for taking the time to review the logs @meager ivy and @versed hull ! ^w ^ Sorry for interrupting your weekend 😅

[acoustic bolt]

These mods shouldn't cause issues

I use them in my pack

I suspect a conflict somewhere, or if you have the interior door lights on turn those off

I know I had those cause issues with Chameleon before

Whatever you have conflicting with those mods you really should pull though if it's a conflict, cus it's likely to break a ton of other things

[wide pecan]

The three I uninstalled were the mods that were causing breaks

[acoustic bolt]

Yeah except as I said I use those in my pack and know these mods are all fine

You have some mod in your pack breaking them

And whatever mod it is

is likely to break a ton of other things

Faster Load Asset Bundle Patcher should not break ever.

If that is breaking you know some mod in your pack is doing wrong

Maybe you could share your profile and let someone like @manic gale take a peek at it

Cus you'll want this mod traced down for sure

[wide pecan]

Well, I don't have anything crazy in the pack and everything here has been pretty up to date for the most part beside some of the christmas ones. The warnings I get on the christmas ones are mostly suits missing but I'm not worries about those, thats an easy fix.

The only other error I'm seeing right now is with old bird fix. I'll make a support ticket so this thread can stay focused on the chameleon mod 🙂

[barren socket]

[manic gale]

https://cdn.7tv.app/emote/66ffe2dfdaf243ce8c79ee1f/4x.gif

@wide pecan This is because you're using 2 Loadstones

please use one of them

[wide pecan]

Thats what I did

[manic gale]

well that will fix your problem then

@lethal ibex I recommend to not modify plugin id, even if it's nightly

because if user would download 2 loadstones plugins, then one of them would break

(plus would add compatibility with other plugins that checks by plugin id)

[wide pecan]

just to yes and this as a new user, not knowing better I'm just rolling with it thinking the mod needed it and there were differenced between LS and LS Nightly. Helps us all out :3

@manic gale, was Asset bundle patcher also breaking because of the doubled LS?

[manic gale]

no

BFLAP doesn't overlap with loadstone

[wide pecan]

Alrighty, thanks!

[lethal ibex]

I suppose that's fair
I'll revert it back to being the same, and add a function that just returns true for nightly

[hallow echo]

I check them separately and handle them separately

[rapid thicket]

woah

[split cargo]

@meager ivy what do you think about modifying the foliage in the game to use translucent materials? it would require creating a translucent material in the editor and then correcting a float parameter to reference the correct diffusion profile, but it's not so messy actually

I'm trying it out in Black Mesa for next update, and it's working in my test build

[meager ivy]

as opposed to what

like

is the existing foliage cutout?

[split cargo]

translucent is different from transparent, you can have it be opaque translucent

what it means is that light transmission is simulated for the material

lemme get a couple screenshots quick

[meager ivy]

ahh

if it's not a huge performance hit and looks nice, then i'm open to the possibility, sure

[split cargo]

before/after:

note that the tree trunks are also affected by this change, but it doesn't look so unnatural actually, since it kinda looks like bounce lighting imo

not sure about the performance impact yet, since the only thing I've used translucent materials on in Black Mesa thus far are a potted plant and a VFX particle system

as long as it stays opaque alpha clipped, it should help reduce overdraw I think, so at least it won't double/triple/whatever up on the cost 🤞

[meager ivy]

does look nice

[split cargo]

forgot to link, but here's the commit where I added the fixup of the diffusion profiles in our leaves material:
https://github.com/PlasteredCrab/BlackMesa/commit/e0f2b27f5783016ebecce4df26057c382e3614ae

DiffusionProfileMappings is the meat of it, but it does use internal HDRP classes to access the existing profiles to assign the vanilla foliage one

(obviously if you only need to do this to one material, you could just load that material and fix the reference instead of making a whole system for it)

[flat geyser]

oh this is pretty as hell

i concur buttery

and if you do please do this in a way thats friendly with custom scenes Lol

[split cargo]

making it work with custom moons would be a whole lot trickier

but custom moons certainly can do it for themselves like I'm doing with Black Mesa

[flat geyser]

can you show me everything you did?

i might wanna integrate this into rebalancedmoons

as it does aesthetic changes

[split cargo]

I can try to summarize at least, but the main thing is the commit I linked above

[flat geyser]

okay

[split cargo]

1. find the material you want to copy
2. clone it
3. set the material type to translucent
4. leave diffusion profile null (probably, I haven't tested not storing the vanilla diffusion profile in the asset bundle yet)
5. toss the material into your asset bundle
6. use some code similar to this to assign the diffusion profile you desire to it (for foliage you should use Foliage Diffusion Profile as the name you search for, but there is also a Skin Diffusion Profile): https://github.com/PlasteredCrab/BlackMesa/commit/e0f2b27f5783016ebecce4df26057c382e3614ae

the diffusion profiles are built into HDRP, so they should be present from the game start, it worked for me to search for them in plugin awake

I should note, if you want to give it a new diffusion profile rather than the HDRP presets, then you will have to make a (probably global) volume within the scene that contains a DiffusionProfileList with just the new one, and that will be appended onto the default list while the volume is present (if it is within the default layer which the main camera uses for its volume mask)

[flat geyser]

i appreciate this, thanks

[meager ivy]

i'll take a look at implementing this "soon"

chameleon has been on the backburner for a short bit cuz i've been busy

[flat geyser]

sounds like u need an extra pair of ears

i mean hands

[flat geyser]

hey may i ask

why do you do this in post with code?

why not just package the materials in the scene with the diffusion property

is it just to save on filesize or

[split cargo]

HDRP has a limited number of these diffusion profiles that it can upload to a global buffer for the shaders you use them on

it places them into an array with 16 elements, the first two are by default occupied by the foliage and skin ones. however, if you bundle one in your asset bundle and add it to a diffusion list override volume, then you ara adding to this limited list, which if enough mods start using these, will cause some of them to be dropped, and then the transmission color becomes magenta

for that reason, I would recommend using the existing foliage one, not bundling one in a global volume

[flat geyser]

i see

[split cargo]

you can duplicate the foliage profile in your own mod and put it in a volume, but then you risk yours or someone else's being dropped if you hit the limit

at this point nobody is using it afaik, but if people start, then it may quickly become problematic if everyone is adding their own lists

but yeah, it also saves on file size

[flat geyser]

btw have you noticed vain shrouds also look great with this

like

the difference is kinda huge

[split cargo]

oh I haven't seen a vain shroud in a while

[flat geyser]

ignore that its white

[split cargo]

but yeah it helps a lot with that type of geometry, it helps immensely in blending the shading so it's not so harsh where two quads meet

[flat geyser]

do you know the diff between the subsurface scattering and translucent type?

they both look visually identical to me

[split cargo]

for the longest time I thought that transmission was used in vanilla, I only just went to look and I realized it wasn't there

uhh

no

lol

[flat geyser]

oh well lol

[split cargo]

I would imagine maybe SSS would be doing more calculations where translucent would just be assuming a much simpler transmission type, but idk really

I think Unity docs should explain that decently

[flat geyser]

actually

hm

@meager ivy do you think it'd be a bad idea on round start to iterate through all materials in a scene and just check for "ForestTexture" for example and then replace it with the new one (or just change the material type to translucent)

my steel door fix already kinda does this on post dungeon generation

[split cargo]

ForestTexture is a shared material, so if you wanted to make it apply to everything, you could potentially do it to the one (vanilla) instance at startup, but you would have to assign the shader and then copy all the relevant properties over to the vanilla material

[flat geyser]

that doesnt sound too hard

i could probably do that

[split cargo]

I believe you would have to assign the shader and set the keywords, then copy over the shader properties that change in the .mat file in your editor

assign the shader because as I understand it, the shader would not actually be just HDRP/Lit, but the variant of HDRP/Lit that has the specific surface type and other stuff baked into it

unsure though, I have never tried to do anything like that

[flat geyser]

hmm

im pretty sure its just the normal HDRP/Lit ?

[split cargo]

I think maybe the main thing is the same property I'm setting already, and then you would have to enable the MATERIAL_FEATURE_TRANSMISSION keyword

[flat geyser]

am i misunderstanding

[split cargo]

yes

[flat geyser]

guh

[split cargo]

HDRP/Lit the name of the shader in the editor, but when you search for it at runtime, you get the default variant (whatever is defined in the .shader file)

[flat geyser]

oh

right

[split cargo]

we need the translucent variant

but there is no way to get that at runtime except having it already serialized

hence why you need to have the material in an asset bundle

[flat geyser]

yeah

i remember running into that issue before

i wasnt like

i was fixing the steel door materials for chameleon and i wasnt able to change the doublesided property in runtime

it just wasnt doing anything

i had to package a new material and replace it

[split cargo]

if you assign the vanilla material to use the shader from your asset bundle's material, then it should use the variant that uses transmission

oh I didn't know double sided was a shader variant, but sure

[flat geyser]

its a surface option

[split cargo]

you can probably replace it in place by modifying the existing material, but that is only in theory

[flat geyser]

but like

changing it post runtime does nothing

[split cargo]

well it doesn't matter so much if it's a surface option, it just matters how the shader uses the property

when it adds a keyword, it requires a rebuild of the shader

so I guess you're right

[flat geyser]

assuming doublesided_on isnt referring to doublesidedGI

im not sure what that is but its unrelated

its the top one im referring to

ok i think what im gonna do is check if the "Trees" group exists in the scene on load and then just iterate through and replace the material for every foliage object

and test how that works

[split cargo]

top one is the one in that screenshot yea

[split cargo]

you can do that yeah

I just tested swapping out the shader, and it works if I:

1. Save the ForestTexture material's renderQueue
2. Assign the shader from a translucent material to ForestTexture
3. Reassign the original ForestTexture renderQueue, as it has been reset by assigning the shader
4. Assign the shaderKeywords from a translucent material
5. Find the foliage diffusion profile hash and assign it to the ForestTexture material

also I'm not entirely sure what would be best with regard to double sided

[flat geyser]

this is what i did

https://github.com/ButteryStancakes/Chameleon/pull/7/files

[split cargo]

I think that vanilla tree leaves have cloned and mirrored geometry, but these little guys don't

[flat geyser]

this is not compatible with modded interiors atm

i think they name their prefabs differently or something

i dont know

[split cargo]

you can find the vanilla material by getting the first material with the name you are looking for in Resources.FindObjectsOfTypeAll<Material>()

it's a little ugly but if you're scanning it for all materials you want to change, it's not that inefficient

especially when you get more than a few materials you want to change

[flat geyser]

i was gonna try this

oh hey it worked for trees

not for plants tho, hm

[split cargo]

they look magenta to me, you still need to fix your diffusion profile

[flat geyser]

oh yeah i know

i just set it to null

[split cargo]

ah ok good

[flat geyser]

im just testing replacing the material

but like

its not replacing the plants on the ground, idk why

[split cargo]

are they even under Trees?

[flat geyser]

yeah

[split cargo]

oh huh

[flat geyser]

trees/foliage

ig just add another check for foliage??

idfk

[split cargo]

oh you're only iterating its immediate children

[flat geyser]

OH

[split cargo]

you can get all the children renderers

but honestly if you want to do the work up front I would tend to say the steps I laid out above are better

unless you expect to want to change other material parameters

[flat geyser]

well

yeah i guess you're right

ill figure out how to do that then

[flat geyser]

oh i didnt fully catch this

this looks straightforward enough

[split cargo]

by the way, if the HDRP assembly is not publicized, as far as I know getting the vanilla diffusion profile list will require it to be

hopefully buttery has that set up

the publicizer tool that is

if not... https://github.com/PlasteredCrab/BlackMesa/commit/e152b5c66936411c0933bdb41ef08446e45f3136#diff-171ed54c1a1088b5bfbd66de538bb8a8aaddc812d38e0c2850dd03beb46e2a7d

Publicize="true" on the HDRP assembly, or the Lethal Company Steam NuGet, will allow you to access the default profile

[flat geyser]

nah dw

i already publicized it

i always reference lethalfixes because 1a3 publicizes some vanilla packages for it

[split cargo]

perfect

[split cargo]

in case you might miss it, this material could use a translucent too

[flat geyser]

oh ok noted

[split cargo]

in case you're scanning for material names in resources

idk what all of these are, the one above is exp

just wanna post this screenshot here before I close my game, the shadows showing through the leaves is so pretty

and as a quick test I swapped the shader back and forth and it appears performance is negligibly different afaict

[flat geyser]

think im totally off the mark here sdfljsdf i tried doing this and its just pink and throws a null reference error (to be more specific the error is being thrown from updating the diffusion profiles at the bottom)

plants are changing now though

so thats nice

i actually dont know why im filtering for snowy tbh i dont think changing the shader changes the texture

[split cargo]

yeah it shouldn't

[split cargo]

where does your diffusionProfileList come from? that's probably where the issue lies

also what's the null deref?

[flat geyser]

oh mb i didnt include it in the screenshot

at the very top is uhh

var diffusionProfileList = HDRenderPipelineGlobalSettings.instance.GetOrCreateDiffusionProfileList();

looks like it implemented fine

so, i added a log print in and what it does is this which is funny

[split cargo]

oh yea that would make sense lol

the array size is fixed, I'm not actually sure why I didn't encounter that myself

[versed hull]

Cool stuff going on here

[split cargo]

you need a null check on each profile

[flat geyser]

ah

[split cargo]

on the settings that is

although I would've expected it to find the target before it hits a null

that's probably why I had no issues is because it found it

[versed hull]

fix this 😛

[flat geyser]

right

[versed hull]

The difference is probably negligible but you might get better/more filtered results by instead running getcomponentsinchildren on all the scene root objects

since then you skip anything prefab pilled or samplescenerelay

(unless you do want those ofc but im assuming this is in the context of running per moon load)

[split cargo]

right but the purpose of using Resources to get Materials is so that it can run in menu just once

[versed hull]

right but your not getting anything that exclusively exists in a scene if that scene isn't loaded

[flat geyser]

oh

its not diffusionProfileSettings that is null

wait wtf is it

[split cargo]

huh I guess maybe ?? I thought that it would find it if it's loaded regardless but maybe I'm wrong?

[versed hull]

Nope

[split cargo]

it appears to work regardless

dunno why the tree material would be in a prefab but it works

[versed hull]

In this case it might be that because the randomly spawning trees use the same material/prefab as the ones manually placed in the scene Unity has moved it to the earliest resource pack that has the prefab

that's why for example we don't have access to the item dropship prefab since because Unity noticed every instance of it purely exists in scenes and not referenced by code as an asset anywhere it doesn't need to package the prefab itself

It's also why for the longest time March was the fucking worst because it's DungeonFlow exclusively existed in it's own scene

[flat geyser]

lol

in rebalancedmoons i remove level1flow3exits from the list

since theres like

no reason it should even exist with lll anyways