Lethal Performance & DiFFoZ Tweaks & BepInEx Faster Load AssetBundles Patcher

[vestal nimbus]

That does sound like a problem

[polar willow]

looks like foreach got borked

Found the issue, leave instruction points to the wrong label

it should have point to 02AD (br.s)

[polar willow]

Will wait when loadstone update will fixed this issue

But for now I will continue to work on improving finding object faster

[thorny gazelle]

even tho it "should" to be essential, it crashed my game on landing

I think it is some incompatibility with something else

[cursive dagger]

for me it was crashing with loadstone

[thorny gazelle]

oh, maybe it's that

[molten light]

Yeah it's a Loadstone issue, @vale flower is working on fixing it atm

You can disable the fix for now until then

[vale flower]

:3

[robust dock]

if you're referring to occlusion culling of lights, probably, but that requires baking which the interior cannot do, hence the need for CullFactory

that's a lot of self time, what does the injected method need to do other than FindAnyObjectByType? I would've expected it to have hardly any time outside the Unity method

[polar willow]

that the real time to find the object

unity profiler doesn't always show you accurate data by default

and recommends to set up your own profiler markers to get real time execution

[robust dock]

huh that's weird, I would've expected it to be able to get good numbers for that at least

good to know

[polar willow]

Mods that are using FindObjectOfType with common types are now optimized

[dull quarry]

woahhh dislike

mods that use that before the singleton is assigned will break

[polar willow]

[stuck spruce]

What’s the mono debug patcher do?

[polar willow]

Mostly is for devs to get more info on exception

[polar willow]

Ok I've tested my changes and I'll release them soon. But I will still not include HarmonyXTranspilerFix as a dependency to not break Loadstone stable version

soon (after 2 hours)

[wicked barn]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/993090/Lossless_Scaling/

Steam

Lossless Scaling

Lossless Scaling allows you to scale windowed games to full screen using the state-of-the-art scaling algorithms, as well as use ML based proprietary scaling and frame generation.Frame generation options: LSFGScaling options: LS1 AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution NVIDIA Image Scaling Integer Scaling Nearest Neighbor xBR Anime4K Sharp Bilinear Bicu...

Price

$5.59

Recommendations

6266

i wonder how this could work with lethal company

[polar willow]

v56 tag added

[polar willow]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[acoustic loom]

does the mod actually help with performnace now

or still wip?

[polar willow]

well every update I add new optimization methods

It will be forever in WIP because it's optimization hell

[robust dock]

it wouldn't, Lethal Company runs at native res

the pixelation is in a render texture

[warm surge]

I used this and it went from 60fps to 120

With 3x stuff

[jaunty epoch]

Oh my god

wait

this mod?

You used this mod??

[warm surge]

No this

[jaunty epoch]

And it went from

Huh

Holy shit

thank you

[warm surge]

Np

Worth the money I would say

[wicked barn]

@robust dockso it does work

someone tested it out

[polar willow]

buh

[robust dock]

I wouldn't have expected it to improve the framerate, but maybe if they had it set to a very low res and then enabled this application it would

but it is also strange for it to affect the fps that much, given that the actual game rendering is already at a low resolution, it's only the HUD that renders at full resolution afaik

I'll believe it when I see it, but if it works for you hell yea

[warm surge]

I believe what it does is add frames in between already existing ones

but i'm not sure

[hybrid lagoon]

yeah interpolation is the base for current frame gen techniques

does it look smooth enough? what happens if the frame rate dips? any noticeable artifacts or something like that?

what's the input lag like?

[acoustic loom]

Well I remember the initial release said there are no performance gains

Are there performance gains now

[acoustic loom]

I use this tool for palwolrd brings me from 60fps to 165fps

It’s fricking great

I would recommend watching some videos on the explanation on how it works

[robust dock]

ah, you right, I didn't notice the frame generation part since they used an acronym for it that I've never heard of

not a fan of frame generation since it probably introduces latency, but happy for people if it feels good to them

cool that that apparently works on most GPUs though, that's more than NVIDIA can say for their offering lol

[hybrid lagoon]

yeah, they advertise having fsr 3 which I'm pretty sure works on any gpu (or at least the higher end ones)
Honestly having tried unofficial fg mods a couple times I can say that the input lag with those is unnoticeable, I've played games where vsync implementation introduced higher delays

I'm more than willing to trade a couple milliseconds for 2 times the framerate

[topaz parrot]

its a lot more than a couple milliseconds p sure

but i think frame gen is cool for non-competitive or chill games

also nvidia reflex & amd anti-lag 2 supposed to help alleviate the frame gen latency issue 🤏

[hybrid lagoon]

yeah this

reflex just makes it a non-issue

[robust dock]

yeah, vs vsync I would expect it to be very similar, but I normally use variable refresh rate, so I imagine I'd notice the latency there sadly

I've spoiled myself in that regard, so I'm not a fan of upscaling and frame generation technologies

they are hacks in my eyes

reflex would definitely help, but frame generation inherently has to introduce latency

well, that is assuming that the frame generation is doing interpolation instead of extrapolation, but I suppose that may vary between implementations extrapolation would be prone to artifacting though

[hybrid lagoon]

yeah it's all interpolation rn, although intel announced this a while ago
https://www.guru3d.com/story/intel-extrass-frame-generation-technology-a-competitor-to-dlss-3-and-fsr-3/

[molten light]

I just hate there's no way to disable VSync in this game and not have screen tearing

[hybrid lagoon]

Kinda sad that a major part of newer releases/early access titles are really unoptimized and kinda have to rely on those technologies

[robust dock]

there's really no way to disable VSync and not have screen tearing, the only way is to minimize it by setting a framerate limit that matches your refresh rate

if you have variable refresh rate, then you want to enable VSync, as that will automatically cap framerate to the refresh rate

[molten light]

Dunno if I've ever really messed with Variable Refresh Rate tbh

[robust dock]

it's only possible if you have a monitor that supports it

barring that, you'd have to

• set your monitor's refresh rate to one of the FPS limit options in the game
• get a mod that allows you to set the framerate limit to any arbitrary value and set it to match your refresh rate

[hybrid lagoon]

forced to buy a displayport cable cause I have an nvidia gpu and my monitor has freesync

[robust dock]

I'm not a big HDMI fan anyway so I'm fine with getting mostly DP

[vestal nimbus]

its been so long since i messed with monitor cables, i use VGA for my second monitor with like two adapters

[molten light]

I use DisplayPort on my main display, DisplayPort is better

[hybrid lagoon]

menace to society

[molten light]

Bruh how old is your 2nd monitor?

XD

[vestal nimbus]

its an old dell lol, but not that old

[molten light]

Mine is old but it at least uses a HDMI cable

VGA is

Ancient

[hybrid lagoon]

last time I used a vga was when I had a ps3

and even then I almost immediately switched to hdmi

[vestal nimbus]

ps3 isn't even that old smh

[hybrid lagoon]

[molten light]

PS3 is pretty old actually

[old rover]

You don't need you touch your refresh with VRR. It just has to be max that your display is capable of. Guess you were talking about non-VRR.

And yes, there is no way to get rid of tearing without some kind of sync. Even limiting FPS to your refresh won't fix it, as your GPU and Display won't be synced anyway.

[old rover]

You don't really have to mess with VRR much. It's the games you'll have to mess with, as they need to be in a presentation mode that supports VRR.

[polar willow]

[0.0.8] 2024-07-08

Added

• Optimization of finding a singleton object. This should help reduce lag spikes.

And more optimization of finding object will be in next update.

[limpid radish]

how do you move mods?

and does the order matter?

[polar willow]

mod order is only visual

[midnight tendon]

In the upper right should be some opt related to disabled mods, if you set it to Custom you can move the mods order

[polar willow]

Stable version of Loadstone got updated, so I can add HarmonyXFix dependency safely

And return old patches back

[acoustic loom]

does loadstone workw ith modded moons

[hybrid lagoon]

does loadstone still do the thing when it kills you in real life if you play with more people

[acoustic loom]

fr that bug was annoying

fricking had to dig my way out of hell

[hybrid lagoon]

nah but actually

cause it would make it extra stuttery in bigger lobbies and make you not load in at all in 9/10 cases

[acoustic loom]

oh

also does anyone know of other good performance mods

[loud tiger]

lightsout

[acoustic loom]

I have faster loading
async logs
terbium

[acoustic loom]

?

[loud tiger]

disables item lights on ship so they dont lag the game

[loud tiger]

cullfactory

[acoustic loom]

oh yea I got that and rpc lag

[acoustic loom]

thx

[loud tiger]

is pathfindinglagfix still needed?

[acoustic loom]

hmm

[loud tiger]

you can also get noconsolespam

[iron sedge]

Hello,

I noticed that this mod utilizes the latest version of BepInEx found over on Github. Will this cause issues with the later version that is on Thunderstore?

[molten light]

No

Likely it made use of it because I think the HarmonyX fix which is gonna be added as a dependency tomorrow I think was based on the newer version of Harmony in BepInEx 5.4.22

[polar willow]

Unity side mod was compiled with latest version of BepInEx, which will not cause any issues (because BepInEx v5 is now LTS and cannot introduce breaking changes)

[polar willow]

yeah, without that bracken will cause lag spikes when seeing the player :/

[umbral tusk]

And that’s a vanilla issue? How has that not been fixed

[hybrid lagoon]

its a very rare occurence in vanilla

it mostly happens on modded interiors

[polar willow]

[0.0.9] 2024-07-08

Added

• Further optimized the process of finding a singleton object by not sorting by instance id.
• Added HarmonyXTranspilerFix dependency for patching edge cases that caused methods to break.

Removed

• Patch of ItemDropship that fixes NullReferenceException on custom moons. Recommended alternative CompanyCruiserFix.

[jaunty epoch]

This mod actually does nicely

You did a good job making probably the first straight forward lethal company performance mod

at least to me

either way

this works very nicely

You're doing good lad

[edgy jasper]

getting some errors from this mod

[polar willow]

Probably you can ignore those errors (some mod trying to get instance of object in main menu, which is not possible)

[dull quarry]

the code is bad but should not be throwing an error

looks like a you problem

like its gross but should be safe

[polar willow]

[jaunty epoch]

still optimizes though

[dull quarry]

sure but not all optimizes are good

[jaunty epoch]

Meh

[dull quarry]

jumping off a building is more optimized then taking the elevator down for example

[jaunty epoch]

You win some

you lose some

At least its not like minecraft where there's performance mods that don't do shit

This at least does something

[old rover]

And you know that how?

By feel I assume?

[midnight tendon]

By the fps counter i assume...

[wicked barn]

fps counter

got some good boosts out of this

[ripe rock]

does this mod cause any issues/bugs

also is the optimization noticible

[midnight tendon]

No bugs noticed until now

It's actually fixing BepInEx and optimizing other mods, which is funny

Each update increases the optimization, so you can look foward into it 👍

[ripe rock]

whats the bug that was found now

[midnight tendon]

It isn't a bug, just a bad way he coded something, nothing major 😑

[ripe rock]

me learning intermediate python:

[ripe rock]

how much of a boost

[wicked barn]

40-60 to almost 50-60

[ripe rock]

so like a 5 frame boost

unless you averaged 40 fps a lot more than 50 or 60 before u got the mod

[umbral tusk]

Just try the mod out yourself

[ripe rock]

ill try it out and see for myself

[umbral tusk]

Everyone will have different results

[ripe rock]

lol

[umbral tusk]

Lol my bad

[ripe rock]

the timing

[ripe rock]

it works well 4 u too?

[umbral tusk]

I personally haven’t tested / benchmarked. I didn’t have performance issues before hand necessarily but it does feel smoother now but again, I don’t have data to back that up could be placebo for me 🤷🏼

I know the things that are apart of the mod are not big changes yet, obviously more will be added

[midnight tendon]

Well... i did test the mod, it didn't boost my fps a lot because i have a bad pc and a lot of mods, but it decreased a lot of lag spikes

[umbral tusk]

See I’m on the other end of the spectrum. I have a really good PC. so it’s hard to notice improvements. Though definitely those weird lag spikes are gone

[acoustic loom]

Huh. Sodium and rubidium are great

[jaunty epoch]

Oh those are goated

actaully

Embeddium is better than Rubidium frfr

I don't use Fabric

Fabric for goobers

[acoustic loom]

Ong

[jaunty epoch]

What

Forge/NeoForge goated

[dull quarry]

This mod isn’t going to necessarily improve performance in the form of additional fps but optimises a bunch of stuff to help prevent drops

(Which could eventually add up into small amounts of gains)

[jaunty epoch]

Thats still good

Yummmy

Grains

Num num num

[polar willow]

idk NeoForge is soo much better in coding

never touch fabric again

[old rover]

Should've called the mod Lethal Optimisation tbh.

Then again, average user will assume noticeable gains in either case.

[outer pawn]

Usually, this is what I hear from people who haven't touched fabric for more than 2 minutes 😅

[polar willow]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[acoustic loom]

for me the main reason why I like forge is because, the better selection of mods

[outer pawn]

I don't think the difference is that noticeable tbh 🤔

Most mods either support both or have good alternatives

[jaunty epoch]

GOATED

Diffoz is goated

[molten light]

He is most certainly the goat

c;

[midnight tendon]

indeed

DiFFoZ supremacy 🙏

[midnight tendon]

i tried that LCUltrawide and got 2 resolutions that works pretty well

• 960×540 (Similar to the game native resolution and works better with monitors because it's 16:9 and doesn't stretch)
• 1280×720 (a bit of framerate drop but i would recommend it to anyone that have a better pc than mine)

[molten light]

Keep Width at 0, only adjust height

[midnight tendon]

i prefer to keep both width and height adjusted to match 16:9, but it doesn't really matter

[molten light]

You want width at 0 because that will auto adjust for anyone you play with

If you change it people on Ultrawide displays will get black bars

[midnight tendon]

after 720 on height, HDRP starts to weigh on my computer 😭

[midnight tendon]

my friends doesn't really have a ultrawide monitor

[molten light]

You could try the High setting in ButteryFixes

and keep both settings in LCUW at 0

it'll get rid of the ship and stuff looking like it's meant for a 4:3 display, but is also a native unused resolution

And it's actually higher res too

970x580

So if you use ButteryFixes set this to High

And for LCUW

[midnight tendon]

i prefer matching the aspect ratio of 16:9 with 960x540 instead of 970x580

[molten light]

Always keep width at 0

Just change Height

[midnight tendon]

but why

[molten light]

Because like I said, 0 auto scales width to your display, changing it doesn't provide any benefits, and if you're setting res to 540p it's gonna auto adjust width to be appropriate to match

[midnight tendon]

so it doesn't really matter the width

[molten light]

Yeah Width just should always be at 0

I will say if you set both settings in LCUW to 0 and use the High setting in ButteryFixes, the visuals are crisper

Than 540p

[midnight tendon]

i could try, but i'm pretty sure that i read once from someone that computers has a algorithm that optimized most commonly used resolutions (16:9 and 4:3), 960x540 would match 1.77, while 970x580 would match 1.67, idk if that's true because i never really got deep into that but i kept it on my mind

[molten light]

I have a better recommendation for you, try removing LCUltrawide entirely if you don't need it and just using the High setting in Buttery Fixes

it actually provides a decent performance boost

[old rover]

There's no point in touching width in LCUW period. No matter the aspect ratio. And matching it to your height and aspect manually won't change anything either. Unless you want to play at a resolution that doesn't match your aspect ratio for whatever reason. That will introduce black bars or stretching. Don't remember which though.

[molten light]

Yeah the performance benefit I get from Buttery Fixes on High without LCUW has made me shift to well if people need it they can just add the mod, the HDRP system seems to not like LCUW very much XD

I can play on Oldred without lag

I'm happy

lol

[vale flower]

I personally set width because sometimes my screen resolution isn't detected right and it ends up using the wrong aspect ratio. I've even had the bug with a completely vanilla profile

[polar willow]

meh, LCUltrawide overhead is only like 0.2ms

[molten light]

Yeah it's mostly just HDRP being a butt lol

[polar willow]

????????

LCultrawide overhead is only because it checks if needs to update render texture size again

[molten light]

Weird, well I definitely got noticeably worse performance on Oldred with it enabled compared to disabled

But maybe it was causing an interaction with something else?

[dull quarry]

because it needs to render more?

[molten light]

That's likely it, I'm tired lol

Have a game I'm installing before bed 😂

[thin crystal]

Of course if you increase the resolution the rendering is going to be slower

[outer pawn]

Am I the only one still using HDLethalCompany?

[polar willow]

probably lol

[molten light]

Since you're here, any chance you might fix Gale causing some configs to change numbers to be absurdly long, like how 0.8 from a R2 profile can become 0.799999 with a bunch of extra added numbers XD

[dull quarry]

floating point impression

[outer pawn]

[molten light]

I can't type all those numbers it creates but you get what I mean lol

[molten light]

And you wonder why you dc from my lobby sometimes

HDLethalCompany isn't compatible with some of the moons and stuff I use

Lol

[outer pawn]

Pretty sure I'm not using it in your modpack - As long as you didn't install it

But it works best for me, so I use it in my modpacks

[dull quarry]

they unsafely reference something that can fuck up in modded moons

[molten light]

Yeah HDLC is also sadly abandoned

[outer pawn]

Well, better than seeing scan nodes at a completely different place like with LCWideScreen

[molten light]

I've never had this happen when using LCUltraWide

I diagnose you with skill issue.

[thorny spire]

WideScreen is a diff mod iirc

[thin crystal]

Float precision errors scare me

[molten light]

XD

[thin crystal]

I have no idea what to do

[molten light]

I do genuinely wonder why it goes brrrrr

😂

[dull quarry]

thats just how that is

[outer pawn]

Probably tied to some config setting you don't touch, but I do

[thin crystal]

There are a bunch of yt videos and articles on this

[dull quarry]

In theory you should be able to round it in those locations to help prevent it i think?

I wonder if you can do some psycho shit where you instead parse it as like multiple ints

[thin crystal]

Well then if you want to enter decimals?

[dull quarry]

1.1 2 5

or something awful

[thin crystal]

If I round it at 5 decimals it's still going to say 0.99999

Right?

[thin crystal]

It comes directly from the rust side, I think somewhere in translation it occurs (I believe tauri uses json to send and recieve messages between js and rust)

[dull quarry]

do you want a stupid idea

i wonder if you can just try and force round up every 9 after the first decimal

[outer pawn]

.-.

[dull quarry]

i could see usecases for 0.9 but any 9 after that eg 0.99 could probablyyy go brr

[thin crystal]

It's not always 9's

But maybe for that case

[rich phoenix]

what if someone wants to set a float to 1.99

[dull quarry]

they die

no one to issue a ticket

[thorny spire]

forever in our hearts

[rich phoenix]

rather just have the long numbers at that point

as long as it isnt breaking any mods, which it shouldnt

[molten light]

@polar willow Btw did you ever confirm if Terbium still causes a performance hit with AsyncLoggers? I like Terbium for the fact of it fixing the Overhead and ram usage used by mod configs but at the same time lol

[polar willow]

yes it still causes

because it overrides message before async log

[molten light]

I figured since you said it was using gc alloc

Wanted to be sure though

Any plans to add a fix for that Overhead into Lethal Performance? Cus it's definitely important to fix that I'd say since quite a few mods have large configs

I know I can list a few

LGU, GI, and ghostCodes though Darmuh plans to rework ghostCodes' config eventually to be more optimized

[midnight tendon]

Nah, i need it to get rid of the volumetric materials

[molten light]

I mean for me the High Setting in ButteryFixes without LCUW or HDLC performs super smooth, although if you need crunch you can test the low setting lol

I was even able to readd Immersive Visor

c;

and when I had LCUW that combined with Immersive Visor caused a hit to performance

[midnight tendon]

I tested it and didn't notice anything 😑 the difference is too small

[outer pawn]

Still different from what I get with HDLethalCompany...

[molten light]

Too bad HDLC causes too many compat issues

[midnight tendon]

What issues?

[molten light]

It feels close to 720p to me, and I like the art style the vanilla game has tbh

It has a charm to it

[midnight tendon]

Immersive Visor causes performance hit because of raindrop, if you disable it you get a clean HUD without impact

[molten light]

It causes issues with quite a few custom moons for 1

Rosie's Summit being one of them

[polar willow]

is HDLC fixed usage of reflection in hot path?

iirc scanning was lagging for me

[molten light]

Probably not it's not been updated in a very long time

Still not updated since December

7 months of no support or fixes

😦

[outer pawn]

What exactly is causing issues with moons?

[midnight tendon]

And still works until this day on my modpack, HDLC rules 🗣️

[molten light]

You can't land on them, sometimes you even crash

[polar willow]

I can try to profile start up and see if I can optimize osmething

[molten light]

Batby already stated why earlier

[outer pawn]

That's the result, not the cause

[molten light]

.

Maybe pay attention, that reply was directed at you

lol

I haven't used HDLethalCompany in a long time

[outer pawn]

Any chance you know what exactly is being referenced?

[molten light]

I removed it back when people started initially reporting compat issues with it

[midnight tendon]

As long as i don't use those custom moons i'm fine with HDLC

[dull quarry]

uhh

[molten light]

That's a really poor excuse tbh, some of those moons are really well made

[dull quarry]

minute

[outer pawn]

And I still have it in my modpack without issues ._.

But I'm also not using Rosie's, so...

[dull quarry]

thats not an excuse?

[molten light]

I guess you're right

[midnight tendon]

Yeah, but i prefer playing the game at 30 fps instead of 6 fps

[molten light]

I'm tired so my Autism is just at an all time high atm and I'm easily misinterpreting things, gonna go to bed in a bit XD

[midnight tendon]

Also, does Insanity Remastered cause performance hit? I've always had this question

[molten light]

OwO

Idk tbh, you may have a few mods that I don't use that could cause a performance hit

I've never tried Insanity Remastered

So I can't say

[outer pawn]

Every time I tried it, it was a buggy mess 💀

[molten light]

We just need an alternative to HDLC that doesn't unsafely touch things

[outer pawn]

Or, fork HDLC and make it safely touch things :3

[molten light]

Cus some people are reliant on it

[midnight tendon]

Do it please

[molten light]

If it's MIT go for it

[outer pawn]

I don't see any license

But source is on GitHub

[molten light]

@polar willow Can probably even help you with stuff that needs changed, he already mentioned it uses reflection and causes a performance hit in that regard

[midnight tendon]

It is sometimes... I wanted a mod that messed with sanity too, is pretty boring having it only because of ghost girl

[outer pawn]

I'll have a look, but can't really promise anything

[dull quarry]

I remember it's atleast volume profile related but i forgot what specifically

is it this? this doesnt look right https://github.com/Sligili/HDLethalCompany/blob/master/HDLethalCompanyRemake/HDLethalCompany.cs on line 388

[vestal nimbus]

no license means all rights reserved

you'll need to ask creator before u can touch it

[outer pawn]

Sounds great

Nothing speaks against a private fork to test things first though

[polar willow]

just is why #1191366880775127081 is still didn't get fork

[midnight tendon]

Also a mod that made the dead HUD better 🫠

[polar willow]

becauce author didn't reply to me

[molten light]

Ghost codes is good

[outer pawn]

If everything fails, I'll just make it like RealBackroomsPatch and make a mod that mods a mod 💀

[polar willow]

💀 gl

[midnight tendon]

If you do succeed in HDLC fork, make the resolution configuration better too, it's very weird puttin 1.7 or 2.3

[molten light]

I mean he still actively updates Better Emotes from time to time so maybe he'll respond to you lol

[molten light]

Eh the way it handled that never bothered me, it was mostly the compat issues and performance issues it can cause

[outer pawn]

For now, private/personal fork it is.

Things require some testing

[outer pawn]

Do all Rosie moons have that compat issue?

[molten light]

I know when I first swapped to LCUW I praised how much smoother it was compared to HDLC on my PC, but not everyone will share that same experience tbh

[molten light]

Nope

Just Summit

[outer pawn]

I mean... Depending on the settings, it's obviously smoother 🤔

[midnight tendon]

Maybe because HDLC uses 1080p by default?

[outer pawn]

As I said in the message above xd

[dull quarry]

wheres this

[polar willow]

start up

[polar willow]

I don't think that patching config will save that much, most of the time is just calculating hash of the asset bundle

[vestal nimbus]

Give or take average day

[polar willow]

The only thing I can do with faster loading is:

1. Lazy save metadata changes
2. Remove uncompressed bundle check

hashing is already optimized as much as possible

(or the only way to optimize it is to somehow get original hash from bundle manifest, without loading the bundle)

[polar willow]

or use unity async file reading 🤔

[vale flower]

Floats try to represent numbers in base 2 because binary
0.8 is 4/5, and that division by 5 can't be represented nicely in Base 2. Think of it like how 1/3 or 1/7 don't work nicely in Base 10

[molten light]

I mean I played with LCUW on 1080p for a while

It ran smoother than HDLC

[dull quarry]

@polar willow have you seen the findgameobjectswithtag call in RoundManager.SpawnEnemiesOutside?

[vale flower]

searching for objects with a tag isn't very laggy at all afaik
unity has an internal cache on the C++ side of things that makes it quick

[dull quarry]

I thought it was better but still not great?

could be wrong

[vale flower]

never seen it in my profiling

[dull quarry]

pointing it out in particually because it's easy to cache and runs every ingame hour

fair then

[polar willow]

Will try to profile and see how much it takes to find the gameobject with tag

[molten light]

So I think the lag I was getting before wasn't LCUW but Diversity, most likely the GraphicsAPI it uses

The game runs way smoother with all of Diversity's stuff disabled

[molten light]

If it helps I did catch this error being thrown before by GraphicsAPI

Seems to have started with V56

But that's probably what's hurting performance

[stuck spruce]

I know this might not be the best place to ask, but I follow this thread to see a lot of current mods that are causing performance issues. Anyone have any experience with Wesley moons have huge lag spikes by the ship doors? Best info I got was it was another mod causing it but could never pinpoint. Other modded moons have had this issue too, but not all of them

[polar willow]

by ship doors you mean when entering/exiting the ship or when closing/opening the ship door?

[stuck spruce]

Just when entering and exiting. Especially when you’re right by the cupboard/door buttons

Clears up once your outside the ship

Mostly

[polar willow]

that's because of audio reverb trigger

in vanilla games searches reverb presets every time you entering/exiting the ship

so that's why you get a major lag spike

[stuck spruce]

Oh interesting. Is there some way to turn this off? Or like… clamp it?

[polar willow]

currently not, but I'm willing to make it more optimized in my mod

[stuck spruce]

That would be awesome. It prevents me from using so many cool moons

[polar willow]

my mod is already optimized that, so try out

[stuck spruce]

I definitely will! Thanks for your quick feedback too

[polar willow]

still not that major improvements (5ms to 3ms lag)

[stuck spruce]

Trust me I’ll take all the ms I can get at this point lol

[polar willow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874214351052111895/1249381110056616068/4x5-ezgif.com-webp-to-gif-converter.gif

[jaunty epoch]

Are there any other performance mods out there aside from this one?

this one is very good

[acoustic loom]

Cull factory

[polar willow]

it's really fast

but allocates array

[dull quarry]

ah ezpz

[acoustic loom]

is it possible to use lc ultra wide to decrease resolution, like hd lethal company, i did that to increase fps

[molten light]

You can use ButteryFixes for that, use it's low setting lol

[polar willow]

Next release will be small, only reducing GC allocations

[molten light]

Less GC Allocations is always good though

c;

[polar willow]

especially if playing with mirage

[molten light]

Yeahhhh lol

[molten light]

Also I know you said you were never able to produce the HDRP error from Diversity but I seem to always get it in my logs, I think it's mainly after loading into a lobby and backing out to the main menu it shows up

It's definitely relating to GraphicsAPI though

[polar willow]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[molten light]

Weird lol

I wonder if it has to do with how I have my config setup somehow

[molten light]

@polar willow It indeed was because of how it was configured, apparently setting Full Darkness to false does it

So the workaround is to just do this

Lol

[polar willow]

hmm

[molten light]

Very strange

[polar willow]

probably other mod in your modpack is causing that error

[molten light]

It might have been GeneralImprovements

since I'm unable to repro it now

[polar willow]

I'm also have GI in my pack

[molten light]

Ohhhh Actually

I think I know.

I think it was probably LethalPipeRemoval before, I switched it from doing Renderer to Inactive per Zaggy's suggestion

It was likely Renderer mode for it

That threw that error

[polar willow]

erm I long time ago set it to Inactive

and i still don't get that error

[molten light]

No no

I mean I had the error when it was on Renderer

But not anymore since changing it

[polar willow]

ah

[molten light]

I also noticed a performance increase after switching it

So yeah it was LPR

[polar willow]

Also, I can probably decrease allocation when mirage is saving audio clips

so that's really good

Mono BinaryWriter allocates array when write float is called

[molten light]

Let's goooo that will help a ton

https://github.com/d-rafferty/lethal-tube-removal/issues/56

Did a suggestion to the dev to hopefully make the new default config option be Inactive

[acoustic loom]

Thx

[polar willow]

Now instead of 2MB allocation it's 37KB

[fallen ember]

O.o

[polar willow]

Also, on rainy/stormy days your fps will be lower, because of usage of physics for rain particles

and depending on your fps it can take really long

[fallen ember]

wtf why is rain not just a visual effect applied to the player camera ❓

[polar willow]

it's just object with particle system

and it's moving to your camera position every frame

spectator or main camera

[fallen ember]

bruh

[polar willow]

AudioReverbTrigger is now doesn't allocate every frame

[jagged zephyr]

This explains a lot💀

[polar willow]

now NAudio allocates sometimes

atleast i now don't get garbage collector performance hit

[vale flower]

:3

[polar willow]

@vale flower https://github.com/DiFFoZ/LethalPerformance/issues/6

thanks for erroring because of harmony transpiler patch :3

[vale flower]

:3
I should rework that message
it's useful for debugging, but so many people read it as "These mods will not possibly work together"
it's more of a "Hey these mods are likely to cause issues if you end up having any"

[polar willow]

👍

[vale flower]

If I downgrade it to a warning do you think that's good?

or should I put it as debug logs

actually I'll just put it as debug logs
it doesn't need to be displayed unless people are having issues

[topaz parrot]

warning would be better

[polar willow]

Warning or Debug would be fine for me

[vale flower]

I set it to be a warning and pushed that change to Nightly and Main

[molten light]

You beautiful life saver you

[molten light]

Is this Vanilla or Immersive Visor?

@-@

[polar willow]

Vanilla

[polar willow]

Just found out that game enables and then disables the local username billboard every frame

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1155590226362761367/1253863181080723559/4x.gif

[vague belfry]

oh no

[vestal nimbus]

How else are u gonna kill frames

[polar willow]

enable:

DMDASM.74C80C60.Cecil.dll!::DMD<LateUpdate>?212476932._GameNetcodeStuff_PlayerControllerB::LateUpdate()

disable:

DMDASM.2B1CD0C1.Cecil.dll!::DMD<ShowNameBillboard>?212476932._GameNetcodeStuff_PlayerControllerB::ShowNameBillboard()
DMDASM.34107DC6.Cecil.dll!::DMD<SetHoverTipAndCurrentInteractTrigger>?212476932._GameNetcodeStuff_PlayerControllerB::SetHoverTipAndCurrentInteractTrigger()
DMDASM.90306544.Cecil.dll!::DMD<>?212476932.Trampoline<GameNetcodeStuff.PlayerControllerB::SetHoverTipAndCurrentInteractTrigger>?449465364()
LethalEmotesAPI.dll!EmotesAPI::CustomEmotesAPI.SetHoverTipAndCurrentInteractTrigger()    /home/runner/work/LethalEmotesAPI/LethalEmotesAPI/CustomEmotesAPI/CustomEmotesAPI.cs:364
DMDASM.ADF37789.Cecil.dll!::DMD<>?212476932.Hook<GameNetcodeStuff.PlayerControllerB::SetHoverTipAndCurrentInteractTrigger>?-1421873000()
DMDASM.74C80C60.Cecil.dll!::DMD<LateUpdate>?212476932._GameNetcodeStuff_PlayerControllerB::LateUpdate()

[molten light]

Lmao simple solution, hide the usernames XD

[polar willow]

probably implement this as this

[molten light]

That should work too

:3

Looking forward to this update for Lethal Performance you've been cooking ^^

[polar willow]

also i will destroy canvas scalar and graphic raycaster from username billboard

but I need to make it before morecompany, because it duplicates player gameobject

[polar willow]

I had to fix csync and disabling burst to be able to join lan server

#1220488542585753631 message
thanks that I posted the fix here

[topaz parrot]

when past you does the homework for future you 😌

[dull quarry]

Where

[polar willow]

@dull quarry

[dull quarry]

Ty

Also isn’t it’s scaler needed?

[polar willow]

no?

[dull quarry]

Oh you tight

Right

Pre coffee brain

[polar willow]

Will publish the new release tomorrow

[molten light]

Perfect cus I'm thinking of playing tomorrow lol

[cobalt goblet]

Does this mod cover the changes made by CompanyCruiserFix?

[polar willow]

not anymore

I've deleted that code

[cobalt goblet]

got it, thank you

probably best since CompanyCruiserFix is so widespread already

[cobalt goblet]

Lunxara do you still use AutoHookgenPatcher?

[molten light]

No

I stopped using it cus it was causing me crashes sometimes when backing out to the main menu on V56

Maybe @rustic shore can look into that and fix it

[vale flower]

dang I really wish I had my debug build of LC rn
I'm getting huge lag spikes and I have no idea why

If you wanna check, this is the code: 0190b9b9-ea72-d233-8694-f4f7962c48f9
I was playing with 4 players in total
I'll send the logs in a sec

ok I can't upload the logs rn
I'll upload them once this game is over
the lag started as soon as I died on assurance to a random turret, and ended once I respawned

second to last assurance run is the one where I got the lag

[polar willow]

that's really big lag spike

probably dissonance doing something, try LethalFixes mod to disable logging from dissonance

[vale flower]

ok actually I think it's consistent

every time I die I lag

[vale flower]

that lagspike is because I alt tabbed which paused the game

what I'm getting is about 0.1-0.2 seconds of lag every 0.5 seconds

I'm on a decent system, and there's no CPU or GPU bottleneck, so it seems to me like some bad code is going on somewhere

I wonder if it's enemy spectate, seeing as it only happens when I'm dead

[molten light]

SpectateEnemies did update earlier today

[vale flower]

I'd deep profile it in the unity editor but unity doesn't like Nvidia+Linux lol

[molten light]

Wouldn't surprise me

[vale flower]

the latest update seems to just make ghost girl visible when spectating her

I'm not seeing anything that'd be obviously laggy

and the last update before that was several months ago

[molten light]

Actually

the latest update was to add support for the new enemies

Not to touch the ghost girl

lol

[polar willow]

sadly I cannot profile that mod because it's uses unity api in constructor

[molten light]

Eeesh

[polar willow]

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/ChubbzCrew/LCHD/
Someone is also trying to disable ui camera

[molten light]

How does it hold up in your tests?

[vale flower]

interesting
the git repo shows an update 7 hours ago, and all it did was fix ghost girl

[molten light]

Weird

[vale flower]

the last update before that was 3 months ago, so v55 didn't even exist

I'm guessing that the v55 support is just recompiling it. Mods need to be recompiled on the new version or they tend not to load properly

[molten light]

I've come to realize there is one thing I now really dislike about LCUltrawide after noticing it

I hate how it squashes the game

lol

It looks so bad because it does that tbh

[rustic shore]

I'd be surprised if it was the cause, since AutoHookGenPatcher only generates the MMHOOK assemblies, which is the exact same thing HookGenPatcher does

[polar willow]

[0.0.10] 2024-07-16

Added

• Implemented patches to reduce memory allocation:
  • AudioReverbTrigger no longer allocates every frame by avoiding the retrieval of a collider tag.
  • HangarShipDoor no longer allocates every frame by replacing string.Format with TMP_Text.SetText(string, float).
  • WaveFileWriter no longer allocates by rewriting Mono BinaryWriter.Write(float) to avoid array allocation with every write. [Optimization for Mirage and Skinwalker]
  • Resolved an issue where the local username billboard was toggling between enabled and disabled every frame, leading to unnecessary memory allocation.

Fixed

• Resolved an exception thrown by another mod attempting to access the object instance while in the main menu.

[agile oyster]

not sure if this is something you want to tackle

VehicleController is not a singleton so every time an outdoor enemy tries to attack the player, weed killer gets sprayed, etc. zeekerss does Object.FindObjectOfType<VehicleController>

it never gets cached

[polar willow]

yeah ik about that

the same is with StartMatchLever and Terminal

[agile oyster]

yeah

[cobalt goblet]

Use LethallyWide

[jaunty epoch]

Im sorry

LethallyWide??

Bros turning Lethal Company Into

https://tenor.com/view/wide-vladimir-putin-russian-walking-gif-17506944

Bro turning Lethal Company into CaseOh

[cobalt goblet]

Nah it doesn’t do that squashed effect if you just change the UI scale to 2.0

#1262331775099867197 message

I have everything set as shown here

[acoustic loom]

It would be cool if everyone gathered together and made a excel and point out bugs and incompatible mods

Like hdlethal
Fog remover
Lasso man

[vestal nimbus]

lasso man is vanilla

[cobalt goblet]

I was gonna make one and just add whoever wants to be an editor

But yea the easiest would be a list of broken mods

And alternatives if they’re available

[acoustic loom]

There is a mod that adds him to spawn pools but cause infinite loading

[acoustic loom]

Lmk if u do

That would be great

[cobalt goblet]

It would benefit the LC modding community a lot, I can imagine the majority of ppl get discouraged and just give up after their modpack fails a few times

Thunderstore is kinda silly for not having a comments section

That’s how I check if mods are working from NexusMods

[acoustic loom]

Same with curseforge

[cobalt goblet]

Yup

I don’t know if there’s a reason for it or they just haven’t gotten around to implementing it

[acoustic loom]

When are you going to make it? It’s also important to specify the version and if it got fixed

[acoustic loom]

I think it would be hard to moderate

[cobalt goblet]

Cuz I see like a dozen people posting their modpacks asking why they aren’t working and they’re full of broken mods

[cobalt goblet]

Yea but I meannn who cares really lol

[acoustic loom]

Ye

[cobalt goblet]

It would do more good than bad

[acoustic loom]

Def

[cobalt goblet]

I might have a chance here at work just slowed down

[acoustic loom]

Alr

[cobalt goblet]

I’m not the best with spreadsheet formatting honestly but I’ll figure it out

[acoustic loom]

I can try it

[acoustic loom]

im to dumb to use sheets lol

[cobalt goblet]

True

[acoustic loom]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zxsJWKJY3LwEecBsNLjcxQxvl7k-_TZqeoCpjjHrcgg/edit?gid=0#gid=0

[cobalt goblet]

Reverse psychology for the W

[acoustic loom]

hopefully people will start updating

[midnight tendon]

wdym HD Lethal Company is broken, it works fine in my modpack with 200 mods

[polar willow]

it doesn't work on custom moons

[midnight tendon]

What custom moons, it worked fine with some wesley's moons and on desat moons

I didn't test with tolian moons and some newer wesley moons

[dull quarry]

some custom moons*

[polar willow]

ah ok then

but I will never use it again because of scan lagging

[midnight tendon]

Also, it would be cool of the sheet recommended alternatives to mods, BetterEmotes is a alternative to MoreEmotes, Lethal Things has the MetalRecharging feature

[polar willow]

I can pin the spreadsheet here if anyone want to

[midnight tendon]

When will TestAccount fork/patch HDLC 😔

[polar willow]

probably it would be better to make GPU optimization also here

[thorny spire]

Isn't one of Adi's friends looking into making something similar

[molten light]

From what Adi said they were gonna have their friend likely merge what they're working on into Lethal Performance

[molten light]

I agree c;

[polar willow]

plus HDLethal GitHub repo doesn't have license, so TestAccount cannot fork it

only patch will work

[midnight tendon]

[vapid olive]

is there an explanation for what this mod actually does somewhere

its very vague on thunderstore

[polar willow]

Only general information will be available for now,

Optimizes the CPU time and minimizing GC allocation. Should help with lag spikes, so your frametime will be smoother.

So if you're CPU-bound then this mod will help.

@vapid olive

[vapid olive]

ah, i see, alright

You should probably change the description at some point down the line. "Optimizes the game" is a bit vague

[polar willow]

In future it's probably also do GPU optimization, but for now CPU optimization is my priority

[vapid olive]

I was a bit sketched to download this at first until I saw people talk abt it (and saw the github)

[midnight tendon]

This mod is peak althrough the description doesn't seem trustworthy

It's pretty much like "Don't judge a book by its cover"

[polar willow]

just found out that project patcher has a remake of posterization shader

[vestal nimbus]

yeah iirc they tried matching it

[dull quarry]

made by IntegrityChaos

[acoustic loom]

it does

also thank you for who ever made the ui much better for the sheet

[acoustic loom]

that would be great

[midnight tendon]

didn't know, i'll add then

[cobalt goblet]

GraphicsAPI by the Diversity dude provides a lot of the stuff needed to mess with graphics settings like HDLC

it says right on the thunderstore page how to use it but it was way over my head

[polar willow]

👍

[midnight tendon]

i tweaked a bit the aesthetic, hope it doesn't bother you

[cobalt goblet]

The performant thumb

[cobalt goblet]

Looks good. BuyableShotguns and BuyableShells are not working either btw

[acoustic loom]

all good ty

[tall flicker]

does it break mods or is it fine

[polar willow]

no it doesn't

[tall flicker]

nice

[midnight tendon]

They aren't?

I'll have to check my modpack later then

[shadow flume]

They don't work, but there is a shotgun mod that does, bettershotgunplus? That was working in v50, didn't play since v55 came out so don't know beyond that.

[shadow flume]

In v50, shotguns and shells vanished, I tried all sorts of mods, but the only one that worked was the one I just mentioned. It had a bug but I mentioned it without expectation that it would be fixed but it was fixed within a day xD so AFAIK it works

[cobalt goblet]

It still works

[cobalt goblet]

^

[shadow flume]

Ah cool, figured it does, but being away for almost 2 weeks, I've not tested my modpack yet

[cobalt goblet]

Every now and then my terminal bugs out and always ships the Shell+ even when I selected Shotgun+

There’s nothing in the log to help figure out why.

[shadow flume]

Never had that, think we bought something different by mistake but yeah, that's a terminal issue really xD

[cobalt goblet]

Could be terminalformatter, terminalconflictfix, or the mod itself

[shadow flume]

I use terminal formatter, but not the fix, probably should tbh

[cobalt goblet]

It’s totally random so super hard to replicate the issue and doesn’t help there’s no errors or warnings related to it in the log

[shadow flume]

I think it's going to be on someone to spam buy from the store to test it, but pay attention to what they are typing and what pops up I guess

Or maybe a little mod to log all terminal entries for testing purposes?

So it logs what's typed, what is selected, and what arrives, I d k

[cobalt goblet]

The super weird part is I would type “Shotgun+”

Then it would say “Buy 1 Shotgun+ for 700?”

And I’d say “confirm”

Then it’d be like “Thanks for you purchase your 1 Shell+ is on the way”

Like wtf 😭

[shadow flume]

Yeah, thats weird, but at least logging that all would prove it occurred, so people can look at what was typed, and why that maybe doing that lmao

[polar willow]

Finally fixed render profiler markers in dev build

[cobalt goblet]

this looks like Logic Pro X

[polar willow]

yipiee

[polar willow]

Looks like StartOfRound has a reference to the dissonance comms, will use that

and fallback to findobject if instance will be null

[polar willow]

got AI generated icon for future DiFFoZFixes mod lol

[thorny spire]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-cat-huh-small-cat-huh-what-gif-2593177363967991691

[vapid olive]

not a huge fan of ai icons, but i suppose it is only an icon after all

[dull quarry]

is that even allowed

[rich phoenix]

wouldn't be the first time and definitely not the last. i personally don't care and would prefer this to "i just picked the first image i found in my downloads folder"

[polar willow]

yBы 🤙

[azure charm]

Never enjoy seeing AI icons, always prefer people make their own even if its shitty mspaint art but shrug

[cobalt goblet]

the AI hate is crazy

[atomic ravine]

lmao for mirage i couldn't think of what icon to use so i just went in game and took a screenshot of my player and called it a day

[topaz parrot]

i think part of it is coz AI bros are cringe

[cobalt goblet]

What even is an AI bro

[topaz parrot]

some claim to be actual artists with ai art. like naw man. u aint an artist. dont call urself one.

[cobalt goblet]

Oh yea that’s pretty cringe

Prompt Artisan would sound a lot better than AI Artist lol

[topaz parrot]

even more cringe when they've trained the models to steal the exact art style of an artist and not give credit

[thorny spire]

also environmental impact

[acoustic loom]

AI is amazing

The icon is fire

[cobalt goblet]

I agree I fw the icon and love using AI lol

I also hate that it exists

But I embrace it

[thorny spire]

I love raising global temperatures

[cobalt goblet]

Are you being sarcastic? 😭

[thorny spire]

What else

[cobalt goblet]

Couldn’t tell if u were unironically tryna make me feel bad for using AI bc of the environmental impact of manufacturing the parts that power it 😂

[thorny spire]

What else pt.2

[cobalt goblet]

https://www.jiosaavn.com/lyrics/what-else-pt.-2-lyrics/AjtTUh5-XHc

[thorny spire]

Yikes

[acoustic loom]

They do tho

[rich phoenix]

its iconic tbh

[topaz parrot]

u speak as if they all do. im sure there are people who do, but im talking about the people that dont.

[dull quarry]

@burnt monolith does TS have any rules re: ai generated content and/or legal ownership of associated upload content like the icon?

[burnt monolith]

I am not familiar with any specific rules governing such and I'm about to go to bed, sorry

[polar willow]

just accept that im will use AI generated icon

[dull quarry]

I mean if it's not allowed then no you won't be lmao but I was just curious because I haven't seen it brought up before

[cobalt goblet]

I doubt it cuz lethal quantities uses Pikachu

lol

[dull quarry]

rules not being applied != rules not being enforcable

[cobalt goblet]

“I will unenforce it in this case because Lethal Performance is a nice mod that helps people”
— Thunderstore CEO, June 18th 2024

[polar willow]

Updated readme

[cobalt goblet]

Oh yea oops I meant to recommend PathfindingLagFix not FixRPClag to the person in the Wesley thread

And LethalFixes has the optimizations made by Fix RPC Lag

[azure charm]

I mean its not the parts that produce it, the active use of AI burns a shit ton of power. The manufacturing of parts produces a sizabel amount of enviromental impact btu a lot less than the usage of AI itself.

[cobalt goblet]

i appreciate the 2 cents, but we could really open a whole can of worms chopping it up about energy and environment stuff lol

Bottom line is me making 10 funny pictures a year does pretty much nothing to contribute

[polar willow]

CullFactory and Loadstone probably won't be added here

[cobalt goblet]

even if that’s what every end user with a laptop did it’s like nothing . This stuff always circles back to the Big Dawgs, but the guilt trickles down to the Little Man

[cobalt goblet]

Cuz of the issue with Wesley’s Interiors and CullFactory?

[rich phoenix]

i think cullfactory should be added

[azure charm]

Last time i used the Bepin Faster Load it broke something and caused assetbundles to not unpack so moons wouldnt work and sounds would just stop working half the time OTL I wonder if those are issues that ahve been fixed by now tho

[polar willow]

Well depending on what mods are you using

if you're using XUnity_Translator or IntroTweaks then it will fail

[cobalt goblet]

Did you run out of ram while unpacking?

[cobalt goblet]

What is XUnity_Translator good for? I just generate the cache folder with my PC and RAR it up and send it to my friends lol

[azure charm]

Didnt have either of those, it was awhiel ago but wit hthe mod enabled audio kept cutting out or had missing sounds, some moons wouldnt load either and other mdos seemed to have broken features and i'd get an assetbundle error each time it popped up. All of that fixed itself after removing the faster assetbundle load modAnd no I definitely have mroe than enough RAM

[polar willow]

it's API for translating the game

[cobalt goblet]

ahh

What’s one more mod I should add to this list?

I’m going to make it a sticker so I can post it easier lol

[polar willow]

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/SylviBlossom/TerminalConflictFix/

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/AudioKnight/StarlancerAIFix/

probably more bug fixes can be added but i can't remember rn

[cobalt goblet]

DoNotEatItems also

[molten light]

DoNotEatItems is more a QOL mod than a bug fix

[cobalt goblet]

oh yea true

Well I will add it to fill the square 😂

Could squeeze in 1 more line if needed

[cobalt goblet]

Wow thanks Jeb

[thorny spire]

bait used to be believable

[cobalt goblet]

So esoteric

[thorny spire]

Oh no

Im sure you know what im talking about

[cobalt goblet]

Yes I think you’re subtweeting me in disagreement because you added an emoji to my message and sent that cryptic message after sending cryptic messages earlier

But I don’t really wanna get into it but if you wanna say something then just say it I mean im an adult im not gonna have a fit if you want to share your opinion with me

[thorny spire]

Generative AI is shit and it’s more damaging than what I assume you think it is

[cobalt goblet]

But it’s not going anywhere and even if every end user stops using it in protest, major corporations will continue using it on an exponentially larger scale

I think the implementation of AI to streamline process improvement and reduce overhead cost for businesses is a far bigger driving attribute to its development and widespread use than dudes making pictures

Not to mention military interest

Like if I could go back in time and do something that would stop AI from being developed to where it is now, I would

But I don’t think by using it you’re contributing or exacerbating the problem. It’s like making someone feel like a bad person for smoking cigarettes because cigarettes gave your family member lung cancer

[thorny spire]

Understandable but idk if “but big corpo” is all that good of a reason to do it as well

[deft cargo]

main focus of AI isn't rlly the environmental damage, it's about your jobs will be taken away sooner or later, especially coding, don't be mad if you endorsing it and then be affected by it later 🤷

[dull quarry]

(also the content it produces fucking blowss)

[cobalt goblet]

I’m not endorsing it by dabbling with it lol the development will continue with or without me

[deft cargo]

Idk if you meant blows in a good way or bad way LOL

[dull quarry]

in a very bad way

shit sucks 👍

[thorny spire]

I dunno if I've ever seen someone saying something "blows" as a good thing

[cobalt goblet]

Only one specific sentence where it can be a good thing

[deft cargo]

😭 my mistake, engrish not my main language

[cobalt goblet]

I thought this was kinda cool

[deft cargo]

yeah it sucks ass but it will develop no matter what sadly, and everyone eventually gets affected

I'm not endorsing it cause I'm an artist myself

I know it'll affect me

[cobalt goblet]

hey im a musician I get that trust me

[rich phoenix]

i think if you're an artist you have nothing to worry about

[cobalt goblet]

nah it’s already hurt artists badly

Ppl who would’ve paid $20 for a commission will just use AI most of the time

[rich phoenix]

i doubt it, because generative image AI is horrible

[cobalt goblet]

how is this horrible? lol I feel like that’s super subjective

[deft cargo]

It's already getting too good tho

Especially like anime art, stylized cartoon, no one can distinct a real and an AI ones anymore unless they deliberately zoom in

[cobalt goblet]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1221993744128151653/1260453769825751102/OIG4.png?ex=6699ec8c&is=66989b0c&hm=9a0d8cca5596de11c3932d84891afd92d28f25cb1b4dac73dc61caeac9682476&

[dull quarry]

this shit looks awful 😭

[cobalt goblet]

How??

It’s clearly subjective cuz I think it looks sick lol

[deft cargo]

they even developed an AI that can do fake drawing timelapse and I'm like why did they waste their time doing this

simple, to scam naive people 🧍

[cobalt goblet]

ooooof

yea

[thorny spire]

Consider the attempt to alter what's actually real

[cobalt goblet]

It will surely lead to a ton of major problems in general

[rich phoenix]

maybe i just have a good eye for it but i can immediately tell when an image is AI

[rich phoenix]

like this

i cant describe why but it just looks like an ai image

[deft cargo]

yeah I can tell it immediately too for 3D images like this

[cobalt goblet]

for sure I can see that, but I still enjoy it lol idk

[deft cargo]

for now

[rich phoenix]

anyway, im not denying that there will be a push for ai to replace regular artists, but there's also a ton of pushback from basically anyone who is an artist, and tons of people who arent

[deft cargo]

Hey I do 3D art myself, so that's why it's kinda depressing

I already seen a lot of musicians themselves already used a lot of AI generated for their album cover

and shits sad

[cobalt goblet]

most people are paycheck to paycheck and consequently cheap, which is why the majority will fallback to AI as long as it’s “good enough” to save them money

[deft cargo]

I understand that tbh, but at this point I feel like artists would rather be paid as much as you'd love to instead of not getting hired at all, you know what I mean

some people willing to negotiate

[cobalt goblet]

Like I agree with all these issues I am not an “AI bro” but I don’t just not partake in recreational substances just because there’s worldwide substance abuse epidemics either 🤷‍♂️

this concept applies to many of these debates imo

[cobalt goblet]

Yea

[azure charm]

Theres a very distinct difference in This thatd only harm you vs Thing that is actively killing our planet and cvosting people their livelihoods

[cobalt goblet]

im in the category of being too lazy to find an artist with the style im looking for and putting in the time to contact them, negotiate, go thru the process of explaining and going back n forth…. All for a cover art for a song I probably won’t make shit for money return on

So I guess in that aspect I do contribute to the problem

[rich phoenix]

if you're using it for a personal project and you have no qualms with using ai or the quality of said pieces, more power to you. but i think that many companies already know that people don't like them using ai and won't bite because they know it's better to just hire an artist than tank the negative PR that using ai will give them. this has already been observed, and nintendo for example stated that they will never use generative ai and people have shown support for that

[cobalt goblet]

Look let’s not go back n forth but you’re never going to convince me that making these little arts is a big enough piece of the pie on an environmental scale for me to feel guilty lol

[rich phoenix]

that sounds like fearmongering to me

[cobalt goblet]

The environmental guilt is a trickle down from “big corpo” which are the same ppl to lobby laws and regulations to keep their own interests protected

[cobalt goblet]

That’s pretty cool

At the end of the day I really wish none of it ever existed

It’s going to be very bad for society

[deft cargo]

like genuinely for personal reasons and use, I won't bat my eye on them much either especially with no revenue return, but seeing artists using AI is weird cause it just feels like you're contributing to your own doom, to things that'll replace you

[cobalt goblet]

Some chick followed me on Instagram and had like 6 pictures and a bio making her look like someone who works in the music industry, even had a bunch of well written fake comments and likes on the pictures too. Then I noticed she looked slightly different in all the photos, then looked at the hair and realized they were AI generated images lol

Had like 1k followers and super authentic looking engagement

Very weird

[azure charm]

it unfortunately isnt fearmongering! The amount of energy AI is consuming at a rampant rate is directly contributing to global warming and many people in the industry have lost their jobs to AI I know of a few myself even :)

itd be one thing if this was like Palstic straws and paper straws, palstic straws make up liuke .01% of plastic waste. But with the Ai every use of it adds up significantly especially with the amount of people who are complacent enough to think they arent contributing anything. it adds up and I think the corperations deserve to be burned to the ground for exploting artists work for their own profit without artists consent and for ignoring the massive global issues theyr'e causing with it. I hate big borp enviromental guilt trickle down as much as anyone else. But Ai needs to become mroe energy effecient for me to feel better about an individual use of it. I wont put down anyone for using it but I will look down on the quality of your work.

[deft cargo]

dead Internet theory is real ☠️

[cobalt goblet]

It was disturbing

[dull quarry]

this is all barely mentioning the fact it's almost entirely fueled on non consentual art scraping too

[cobalt goblet]

Like what is the play there? Scamming starving artists of their spending money?

Insane

[azure charm]

Its blatent art theft that peopel are just suddently okay with

[deft cargo]

I do agree tho, AI does use a lot of environmental, even the scraping process of million art every day inevitably uses a lot of energy, so it's no doubt

[cobalt goblet]

I feel like the

“Nobody thinks they aren’t contributing anything and that’s why it will never change” argument in all categories is a fallacy honestly, because it’s true, it will never change. It will propel and develop and I’ll just grow old as the guy who did or didn’t use AI. Maybe that’s a cynical take but, it’s a flaw in human nature that makes it true historically

[deft cargo]

people nature are just digging their own graves with these, but we the vulnerable ones ofc will be affected by it first ☠️ they the higher level won't feel as much

they're too big, they're not supposed to fail

[cobalt goblet]

Yea I agree I wish there was better laws protecting the sources

[azure charm]

"it wont affect me ill just grow old" say person living on the same planet that is being affected by these things. Corperations and big rich folk esp the older ones arent gonna feel the repurcussions. But all of us at the bottom and the middle are the oens gonna be sufferin fer it all.

[cobalt goblet]

And we’re also the ones hardly making an impact one way or the other

If every middle class person boycotted AI for the use of something like this mods icon PNG, I would guess it would add to like 5%

[azure charm]

Its impossible to avoid contributing to evils in the world, but yo uvan still choose which you do. Yo ucan make the active effort and choice to not support or do something. ITs the ease of use, the "look anyoen can do it and ya dont have to put in any effort" that inspires complacency and is exactly what corperations want because it means they make more money than ever from it.

[rich phoenix]

you do realize the AI gets trained whether you actually use it or not

that's the part that has the most environmental impact

even stuff like captchas have been training AI for years

are you just gonna stop using websites that require a captcha?

[cobalt goblet]

a whole other can of worms is our reliance on fossil fuels at the foundational level and why we aren’t using nuclear power. so all these debates about environmental impact tie back to the fact that all our power comes from coal and dams

[thorny spire]

It's why there's pressure targets when doing larger scale boycotts

[rich phoenix]

but, like, how can you boycott something that doesn't require you to interact with it

if even 50% of the population stopped using AI for a week do you think they're just gonna close up shop

a lot of people already don't use AI and they're already thriving as a business venture

furthermore, AI is too new to really discern the actual impact it has on the environment. all of the scholarly articles you can find on the environmental impact of AI are about the potential impacts of AI based on prediction and extrapolation of data. it's very bold to outwardly claim that AI is killing our planet when you can't know that for certain, because nobody knows that. and yeah, pretty much what woodroach said. our society has literally been built upon sources of fuel that emit carbon, which, if that weren't the case, none of this would even be an issue to begin with

anyway who likes Lethal Performance mod

[cobalt goblet]

I didn’t use it for the longest time because of the mod description 💀 until I realized it was the same dev as BFLAP

which was like two weeks ago

I was like

“Optimizes the game, seems sus and vague”

Cuz most “performance” mods for games that are vague don’t do shit

[sharp sage]

Ironically enough, this rhetoric is unfortunately what's pushed by the very corporations negatively impacting the environment the most -- shifting the focus to an individual scale to dissuade from any large-scale, systemic change. This doesn't mean you should start littering or using up water wastefully, but their intent is specifically to make you feel bad for "not doing enough", or "not doing your part". This article explains it pretty well: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220504-why-the-wrong-people-are-blamed-for-climate-change.

But yeah, this has nothing to do with Lethal Performance and should probably be discussed elsewhere, haha.

[cobalt goblet]

Thank you this is what I was trying to say

[dull quarry]

True which is why it's a lot easier to focus on the art stealing in bulk

[cobalt goblet]

It’s like Costco but naughty

[rich phoenix]

i agree, and i think that's why a lot of people are asking for a writeup on what this mod actually does

[cobalt goblet]

He updated it just a bit ago

Around the same time he posted the AI icon

Which is want caused the landslide 😂

[thorny spire]

#1253705079605956640 message

[rich phoenix]

yeah ik, but still a lot of people would like to know exactly what it's doing

i mean in my case it's not that i believe the mod isn't doing anything, it's just that i'm interested lol

[cobalt goblet]

I probably wouldn’t understand even if he explained on a technical level 🤣

I know GC allocation is garbage collection

Because of minecraft modding and Java args

[sharp sage]

Yeah, the many ethical boundaries being breached by art scraping as a whole are pretty significant. There's stuff like this to combat it somewhat, at least: https://nightshade.cs.uchicago.edu/whatis.html.

[deft cargo]

sorry cause I technically barged in and continued this AI discussion 😭😭😭

[shadow flume]

I feel targeted:D

^ cause the icons I make are shitty mspaint art xD

[polar willow]

I'm preparing rn a hotfix for LP that fixes Mirage unable to parse audio clip from the file

[polar willow]

[0.0.11] 2024-07-18

Changed

• Updated README.

Fixed

• Fixed Mirage unable to parse .wav file correctly.

Thanks to @molten light for noticing this issue

[acoustic loom]

Man you should have said nothing about it being ai generated

[polar willow]

ik ik

but still that would cause the same drama in future

[acoustic loom]

True

[thin crystal]

You can still clearly see it's AI generated

[acoustic loom]

Ig

[topaz parrot]

if u gonna use ai art. i think people should be transparent that it’s ai.
also not do the cringe things AI bros do.
i think diffoz is all good. its just a simple icon design and he’s not profiting off it or anything. 🤷‍♂️

[cinder plover]

yeah these are personal projects after all

[cobalt goblet]

all together does not matter whatsoever for sure lol

Mspaint bmp or AI icon makes no diff

[wicked barn]

never thought i would see ai discourse in here

https://tenor.com/view/indiana-jones-crystal-skull-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull-squinting-looking-gif-829698979663509341

[cobalt goblet]

prior to this i would have guessed that so many ppl in a realm threatened by AI would passionately hate it with strong bias

cant blame em

but if a mf wants to make an icon like its just an icon

for a free non profit project that helps ppl

lol

[wicked barn]

as a person who hates ai with all my power

whatever lol

but i honestly didnt like that action tbh

but again

whatever

https://tenor.com/view/the-boiled-one-doctor-nowhere-the-boiled-one-phenomenon-luigi-mario-bros-gif-700150689986955036

[cobalt goblet]

spoopy

[wicked barn]

The Manifestation of my being is here. You'll be asleep in bed, I will be there, and watch over you. When you wake, you will not be able to move any part of you. When the doctors eventually find you, they will not see me. But you will, and I'll see you too. Forever, I'll see you.

[burnt monolith]

@dull quarry I'd like to know more about this AI generated content thing I was pinged for. This conversation has gone on far too long for me to get to the bottom of it easily and I just need to know what the actual problem is and if I need to start considering a policy for our section of the TS

[jaunty epoch]

Naaaah not this bro

[burnt monolith]

Anyone else that wants to help me understand is welcome to chime in I guess

[vestal nimbus]

Basically he just asked what the policy on using ai art for mod icons is

There wasn't anything drama related etc happening, he was just curious if thunderstore had any policies on ai art and stuff like thst

[burnt monolith]

Oh okay. I made a thread cuz I thought it was gonna be a whole thing: https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1263616108376887317

[limber violet]

I mean, 40+ messages of people screaming at OP is something lol.

[burnt monolith]

Let's leave discussion in this thread to on topic from here out

[vestal nimbus]

That's AI art for ya, it's a chain when it gets started, consensus seemed to be "its just an icon for a mod, who cares", but yeah prolly best to leave discussion elsewhere for this

[cobalt goblet]

My bad I was yapping fr last night

But jeb pinned my picture

[stuck spruce]

Hey do you guys have any insight into what causes the trees to pop in really rough? I know it used to be modelreplacement api but disabling that doesn’t seem to make a difference now

[ripe rock]

sorry to bother u but do u know if skinwalkers already fixes the dissonance lag

idk if i need to get dissonancelagfix since i have skinwalkers

[polar willow]

no, skinwalkers doesn't fix dissonance lag due to logs

so use that mod, or LethalFixes

[ripe rock]

does mirage? i thought i heard that one does

[polar willow]

Mirage does

[polar willow]

Terminal and weathers are now cached

[molten light]

Ooh

[polar willow]

Hm, actually I will only cache stormy weather

[dull quarry]

Why

[polar willow]

other are useless

doesn't have netcode stuff that game needs to find it

What I'm really want to cache is AudioReverbPresets

[dull quarry]

yee

[polar willow]

but I'm really worried that it may break some custom moons

[dull quarry]

howso

[polar willow]

(if they do really hacky stuff)

[molten light]

If that's the case then wouldn't it be on moon devs to properly implement their reverb triggers?

[polar willow]

for example after some game hours disable the reverb preset and enable other one

[dull quarry]

can't you manage a list with that issue in mind yourself?

[polar willow]

Does LLL or other stuff expose Instantiate prefab method?

just in case

[dull quarry]

No, Why?

[polar willow]

if not then yeah just will cache the list then

[polar willow]

just in cache asking about that

i had a bad time in Unturned development 😅

[dull quarry]

i dont understand why that would be a concern

[polar willow]

it's compicated to write

but it's more related to Unturned dev i guess

[dull quarry]

imo should use onenable and ondisable

to add and remove

[polar willow]

https://youtu.be/jjyvQwF9vvY
still getting bad memories when I was helping with that

without creating custom scripts it was really hard

[polar willow]

Also, why Zeekerss used encryption for file saves

@dull quarry ES3 settings

AES encryption of json file

[polar willow]

Not sure why mrov still didn't fix the spam

Sub-emitters may not use stop actions. The Stop action will not be executed.

but I fixed that on my end

probably not that important /shrug

[molten light]

Noice ^^

Update soon?

❤️

[polar willow]

will try to push the update today

[molten light]

Yay 😄

[polar willow]

Hm probably not today, a lot of changes was made that I need to test

[vague belfry]

is that the particle-related spam on stormy?

i don't think vanilla console spam is something i care about fixing

[fallen ember]

particle spam in stormy is caused by meshes on metallic objects not being Readable

or you added another error to the list @vague belfry ?

[vague belfry]

i'm talking about that one

the subemitter spam

[fallen ember]

is that a particle related one?

[vague belfry]

ye

[fallen ember]

i've never seen it in vanilla 🤔

[polar willow]

👍

[vague belfry]

i'm pretty sure it's always spammed when stormy weather is enabled/after lightning strike

[fallen ember]

🤔 i saw some of them after a hive spawned in vanilla... but far from beeing a spam

what's causing it @polar willow if you know

[polar willow]

Just zeekerss set particle system action when all particles are dead to Destroy gameobject