Buttery Fixes

[jolly raven]

I was the final nail in the coffin kinda

Still feel kinda bad about it, my own stubborness won in the end which isn't how these things should go lol

oo that's what fixed it on my pack, neat

[still mantle]

10kth message

[jolly raven]

Whar

oh it's a granny reference

LMAO

[opal cairn]

its not

i just made an inside joke after she said it

she gets it though

[jolly raven]

it's ok, you weren't being a bitch about it

[jolly raven]

some day I'll understand the deeper meaning of Granny

[opal cairn]

there is actually what are often referred to as "chests" (theyre actually coffins.. surprisingly..) in the "spider cellar"

which is often referred to as a sewer because people think dirty water in an underground section of a building = sewer

the abandoned part is really specific and in park

[trim breach]

i promise you it wasn't "your fault"

it was brought up by several other people before

it was more just a matter of "a few months have passed and people still feel the same about it, so maybe i should change my own perspective"

[jolly raven]

I suppose

i did try holding back from commenting on it over and over cuz that'd be plain annoying and didn't wanna be super insistent with it, I only brought it back up cuz it was relevant in a convo we were having here

hope you're having a good day today stan

[trim breach]

pretty good

i went through a general slump of feeling kinda bad

and i got sick earlier this month

but about the last week or so i've been having a pretty positive outlook day-to-day

and i've been doing some fun stuff with friends

[jolly raven]

hell yeah!! you love to see it :D

[ruby dagger]

@trim breach Would you mind looking into this?

Your mod was one of the mods we updated, and now our game is consistently crashing for some reason

The other mod that was updated is Colorful Enemy Variety, but we have no idea how it would be the culprit of our crashes

[trim breach]

can you give me some more information?

[ruby dagger]

Oh bruh, wrong thread
I meant to put this in Mask Fixes

Uh

[trim breach]

how is it crashing? what are you doing when it's crashing? have you tried downgrading from 1.15.0 to 1.14.7 to see if it helps? have you disabled the AutoCollect setting to see if it helps?

etc...

[ruby dagger]

Not really, the game just up and permanently freezes at random points throughout a round

[trim breach]

oh

[ruby dagger]

I cannot go past one day without it doing so

[trim breach]

im doubtful the mask fixes update would be causing that

let me double check something

https://github.com/ButteryStancakes/MaskFixes/commit/741066e117dfb97c7b908a9dafb6b6ad6b6be974#diff-2aa3598b57054060cea99cc0972291fd094a32f36af3b5a5ae96a5835c6ea6afL228

this is the only change i made in v1.5.2

[ruby dagger]

We're going to downgrade and see if that changes anything

[trim breach]

i added an isPlayerDead check before setting the biohazardDamage boolean on the HUD animator to true

since it seemed like there were some rare circumstances where the visor's blood spillage animation would play after the player had already died, causing it to get stuck forever on the spectate screen

since it checks that MaskedPlayerEnemy.inAnimationWithPlayer isn't null before checking if MaskedPlayer.inAnimationWithPlayer == GameNetworkManager.Instance.localPlayerController, GameNetworkManager.Instance.localPlayerController can't be null, so there's no way that is causing errors

even if that was causing an error, i would anticipate it would just throw an exception, not crash completely

[trim breach]

this would suggest something is getting stuck in an infinite loop somewhere

usually when the game completely hangs with no feedback, that means an infinite loop

if the game closes by itself with no error in the logs, that usually means a stack overflow

(at least in my experience)

[ruby dagger]

It froze again, but managed to free itself

Right after that a forest keeper was already locked onto me, even during their intro sequence (I was in Adamance's canyon, and the forest keeper was above me, mind you)

Might have something to do with them, I have no clue. I guess it isn't MaskFixes after all

[trim breach]

are you using forest giant motionsense

[ruby dagger]

No

[trim breach]

i saw recently someone said it locks up the game when you get spotted by a forest giant

i forget where

maybe the sbt thread

[ruby dagger]

I have however using ButteRyBalance's modifications of forest keepers

That + Random Enemies Size and Enemy Skin Registry

[trim breach]

that shouldn't cause any problems but if you consistently encounter problems with forest giants you could consider turning the settings off to see what happens

butteryfixes also includes the stealth decay fix

[ruby dagger]

Yeah, I'll see what we can do abt them

[trim breach]

since (while this is a balance change) i am pretty confident this is a bug and not a subjective design change

though it is still configurable anyway (in case you would rather use fairgiants, or just dont want this change in general)

so you could try turning that off too if you are still having trouble with giants

[ruby dagger]

I wonder if Zeek intentionally kept the bug in to keep forest keepers hellish to play against... People have been complaining about it since v45, so he must have at least some knowledge about it

[trim breach]

there is a line of code in there that is objectively a bug

[slate venture]

only decays if the giant is chasing a player

[trim breach]

it causes forest giants to infinitely stack detection (meaning they can have 1800% detection, or -600% detection, when it's supposed to be locked between 0% and 100%)

[ruby dagger]

Forest keepers r locking tf in

[trim breach]

he made the same mistake with the kidnapper fox's AI back in v55, it was reported as a bug, and he fixed it for the kidnapper fox

that is 100% a bug

whether or not forest giants are intended to have decay when they aren't seeing a player is less conclusive

personally i think it's a mistake, but it is a lot harder to argue it is objectively wrong (it depends on how you interpret zeekerss' code vs. his intent)

hence the toggle

[trim breach]

(also because if you stack fairgiants with my fix, the effect will apply twice and forest keepers will be "double stupid")

[meager estuary]

You are forgiven for your crimes against Plushie Pajama Man

[trim breach]

i only increased the plush from 0.15s to 0.2s

so that it audibly decompressed before you could squeak it again (like a squeaky toy would work)

[meager estuary]

idc

It was noticeable and made me genuinely sad

[summer falcon]

Hi Buttery, any clue on why, even when all your toggles in settings are set to disabled/vanilla, your mod prevents this one from working?
https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/DrinkableWater/DropShipDeliveryCapModifier/

with just that mod installed, i can buy "lockpicker 999" and it asks me to confirm buying 999
with butteryfixes also installed, i try to buy 999, and it changes to confirming im buying 12.

01995bfb-300b-7ab2-caff-ca934b944ba1

im guessing its just breaking their transpiler, but i didnt check the code in detail so i dont know whats breaking exactly.

[trim breach]

their transpiler is running after mine

and specifically only overwrites the limit if it is 10

because mine increases it to 12 theirs skips over it and doesnt change anything

[trim breach]

mine does the same thing because i had hoped it would help with compatibility in this case

but order of execution is what matters here

[summer falcon]

ah, i will let them know, thanks

[trim breach]

well, i could also adjust the priority of my transpiler

or just add auto-compat

it's something either of us could fix

[summer falcon]

well, i linked them to my initial message here, and i beleive they are in the discord as "Drinkable", but i didnt want to ping them as i was talking to them on their github, just thought id inquire for them about why it may not be working when your mod is installed 🙂

[trim breach]

well, if you're not sure, i'll just fix it on my end

i already have a compatibility check for general improvements since GI also changes the buy limit

i can just add this to the same branch

[summer falcon]

thanks, that will be great!

[trim breach]

im back home now

nobody has reported any other issues with 1.15.0 and i havent played since dropping the update

so im not aware of anything else that needs to be done

i can probably just push 1.15.1 in a few minutes to address this problem

[slate venture]

I had no problems

[trim breach]

it's out

[slate venture]

Small incompatibility with keys are scrap (false) and General Improvements teleport with nonscrap items.

[trim breach]

GI needs to fix this

[still mantle]

recede-ahh bug

[slate venture]

If I enable keys are scrap, they will be displayed as a scrap symbol instead of the key symbol on the radar

[livid plover]

Take it to GI thread

[slate venture]

?

Teleport thing is GI ik

I already did this

[livid plover]

Yea I didnt get notif for gi thread

Ur good

[trim breach]

imo this isnt really that incorrect

vanilla checks if:

1. the freshly spawned item is scrap

• if it is, it spawns a scrap radar icon

2. if it's not, then it checks if it's key

• if it is, it spawns a key radar icon

when keys are scrap they satisfy the first case so it never checks if the item is a key

i could try to tweak it and force a key icon

but then there's another problem with scrap keys, where you can't put them into a belt bag anymore (since belt bags aren't allowed to contain scrap)

and you'd have to use bagconfig to fix that

ultimately im kind of okay with the scrap key setting being kind of weird because it changes so many interactions with keys

[trim breach]

but maybe i will do this anyway

[slate venture]

If a player picks up a key, will the (vanilla) game check if it's a key? Because before I asked that, I first opened the vanilla game and tested if the vanilla game had a key icon.

[trim breach]

this happens when the item spawns

and only happens once

if the key spawns, and keys are marked as scrap, it'll show the scrap icon

if the key spawns, and keys aren't marked as scrap (as in vanilla), it'll show the key icon

[slate venture]

thx for the explanation

[trim breach]

i have fixed this upstream but it is such a minor thing i dont think i will push an update for this right away

[slate venture]

its not a big problem

[trim breach]

just in case i decide to do anything else with 1.15.2

[trim breach]

i think i might want to try something in the next update

the sapsucker and its eggs have a bunch of bugs tied to orbit phase + an unused testing mode

which occur because clients remain "in orbit" up until the ship doors open, while the host ends orbit phase as soon as the lever is pulled

since the host can spawn the sapsucker and its nest while clients are still in orbit phase, those clients occasionally get buggy sapsucker/egg behavior

which causes eggs to hatch but not scream, sapsuckers fail to damage clients, etc.

i patched this problem completely for sapsuckers but doing it for eggs is more complicated and requires a transpiler to reverse

and ive been a bit lazy and havent written one yet

but i was wondering... maybe it would be better to just fix the core of the issue? and make it so all clients end orbit phase as soon as the lever is pulled

ideally it shouldnt cause any problems, because then all players on the server are experiencing the same consistent behavior, but ive always wondered if zeekerss had a reason for leaving the flag unchanged

[subtle compass]

seems like the easier and better solution, so long as it doesn't cause any issues with clients

[trim breach]

so anyways tldr im gonna add an experimental config setting for that in the next version and i think it would be nice to test if it works ok

[thorn breach]

Isn't it unchanged because the he'd need to explicitly write a clientrpc for it?

Iirc after pulling the lever is a bunch of host only code for quite a bit

[trim breach]

you might be right, but the lever pull animation plays for all clients

so it would be easy to estimate when clients should turn it off, at least

as long as any RPC fires after the lever is pulled before enemies start spawning, it would be sufficient to dodge these sapsucker bugs

right now i dont think anything else depends on that flag

[thorn breach]

Yeah u could patch prefix the client rpc that generates the dungeon, I think that's the earliest without doing your own networking

[trim breach]

only thing i worry about here is that LLL still has that bug where you can pull the lever when it doesnt actually work

so using the animation seems unideal

[thorn breach]

Yep

[winter widget]

That isn't an LLL exclusive bug is it?

[thorn breach]

My thing would also have the problem of a company moon without an interior not running that prefix code (although there's only one modded moon that really fits that criteria)

[thorn breach]

I think it is

[trim breach]

it is a side effect of the hotloading feature that was added a while back

afaik it just never got fixed

[thorn breach]

Yeah the transpilee or patches on the lever are a bit cooked

[winter widget]

Maybe it happens due to different reasons but I'm quite sure it can happen in vanilla

[thorn breach]

Like it works but not in terms of the intractable toggle

[trim breach]

i would be curious what you are referring to

[winter widget]

Pulling the lever without landing the ship

like playing the whole animation

[trim breach]

well i mean

id be curious to know how to replicate that in vanilla

i know LLL at least makes it more common because it lets you pull the lever while the ship is being routed, which vanilla does not allow

[trim breach]

pulling the lever only plays the animation and doesnt actually break anything. you just have to pull it again once the ship is ready to land

[winter widget]

iirc if you start pulling the lever while someone is routing to another moon on the terminal it happens

[trim breach]

but it is one reason just the animation wouldnt be reliable

[trim breach]

you could be right. netlag and order of operations probably make it possible to do some weird stuff

[winter widget]

it has pretty tight timing you have to start the animation before they confirm the route but they need to confirm before you actually move the lever

[subtle compass]

would patching this be plausible?

[trim breach]

im not at my computer right this second but if theres a clientrpc called in startgameserverrpc

that would probably be the sauce

[thorn breach]

Doubt, pretty sure this is where the chain of host only code begins

[thorn breach]

Yep I'm right

You need to go deeper

[trim breach]

looks so unfort

[thorn breach]

A few more functions you'll find the first clientrpc is the one for generating the interior

It might force you to wait 1 second or smthn though I don't remmeber

[trim breach]

looks like i could just use ResetPlayersLoadedValueClientRpc when landingShip == true

[thorn breach]

Oh was there something like that? That could be useful

[trim breach]

public void StartGame()
{
    if (!base.IsServer)
    {
        return;
    }
    if (this.inShipPhase)
    {
        if (!GameNetworkManager.Instance.gameHasStarted)
        {
            GameNetworkManager.Instance.LeaveLobbyAtGameStart();
            GameNetworkManager.Instance.gameHasStarted = true;
        }
        this.inShipPhase = false;
        this.fullyLoadedPlayers.Clear();
        this.ResetPlayersLoadedValueClientRpc(true);
        Object.FindObjectOfType<StartMatchLever>().triggerScript.disabledHoverTip = "[Wait for ship to land]";
        Object.FindObjectOfType<StartMatchLever>().triggerScript.interactable = false;
        this.currentPlanetAnimator.SetTrigger("LandOnPlanet");

[jolly raven]

yes this has happened a lot

[trim breach]

[ClientRpc]
private void ResetPlayersLoadedValueClientRpc(bool landingShip = false)
{
    if (base.IsServer)
    {
        return;
    }
    this.fullyLoadedPlayers.Clear();
    if (landingShip)
    {
        if (this.currentPlanetAnimator != null)
        {
            this.currentPlanetAnimator.SetTrigger("LandOnPlanet");
        }
        Object.FindObjectOfType<StartMatchLever>().triggerScript.interactable = false;
        Object.FindObjectOfType<StartMatchLever>().triggerScript.disabledHoverTip = "[Wait for ship to land]";
    }
}

[jolly raven]

iirc I brought this up a while back w sapsuckers on my moon but the stuff you added fixed the nasty logspam

[trim breach]

these two functions basically do the exact same thing for host/clients except clients dont set inShipPhase like the host does

so if it makes sense to put it anywhere

looks like it'd be here

[jolly raven]

yay!

[trim breach]

yeah

like i said i definitely patched the sapsuckers

if (StartOfRound.Instance.inShipPhase)
{
    Debug.Log("Giant kiwi has detected the game is in test mode.");
    if (this.birdNest == null)
    {
        this.birdNest = Object.FindObjectOfType<EnemyAINestSpawnObject>().gameObject;
        this.agent.enabled = false;
        base.transform.position = this.birdNest.transform.position;
        base.transform.rotation = this.birdNest.transform.rotation;
        this.agent.enabled = true;
    }
}

this is all that happens with the sapsucker's test mode

because birdNest isn't null during Update(), it never does this stuff later:

if (this.birdNest == null)
{
    if (!base.IsServer)
    {
        EnemyAINestSpawnObject[] array = Object.FindObjectsByType<EnemyAINestSpawnObject>(FindObjectsSortMode.None);
        for (int i = 0; i < array.Length; i++)
        {
            if (array[i].enemyType == this.enemyType)
            {
                this.birdNest = array[i].gameObject;
                this.birdNestAmbience = array[i].GetComponent<AudioSource>();
                return;
            }
        }
    }
    return;
}

[trim breach]

this code assumes that the only nest on the map is a sapsucker nest (which makes sense if you're spawning stuff to test the sapsucker, but is not necessarily true in a real game) and also forgets to set birdNestAmbience

so Update() runs into issues later with birdNestAmbience being null and it spams exceptions + short circuits the code (which ultimately prevents the sapsucker from damaging players too)

anyways this is really easy to fix because all i have to do is postfix Start() and if birdNest isn't null and !IsServer i just set it back to null so Update() runs properly

lol

eggs do something similar in Start():

if (StartOfRound.Instance.inShipPhase)
{
    this.takenIntoOrbit = true;
    this.currentAnimation = 4;
}

[trim breach]

I'm able to reverse this easily, but the problem is that it just immediately gets broken again by Update():

if (StartOfRound.Instance.inShipPhase || this.takenIntoOrbit)
{
    this.currentAnimation = 4;
    if (this.screaming)
    {
        this.screaming = false;
        this.takenIntoOrbit = true;
    }
    if (this.currentAnimation == 4)
    {
        this.eggAudio.Stop();
    }
}

i'd have to transpile some additional condition in here to make this work as it's supposed to

or, ideally, i could just fix it by making clients turn off inShipPhase before enemies start spawning

[trim breach]

so that's the incentive behind testing this change

[ruby dagger]

I've got something better: Make giant sapsuckers able to be played against

trol

[opal cairn]

Black Bird From The Game Deadly Workspace: Avoid Him.

[ruby dagger]

Do giant sapsuckers have the pass? Please debate

[opal cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-scared-automatic-feeder-cat-jumpscare-harlow-gif-15721901469169154887

[ruby dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1419417618015588466/1421314232317907035/MEMZ-Sadge_1.gif

[meager estuary]

idk if this is more of a BYB thing, but I would consider it an issue more than a matter for taste. Apparently the Zap Gun does not fully immobilize Maneaters when zapping them, and I think it should. Maneaters would be an actual use for it yet they (seemingly arbitrarily) resist bringing stunned

[low jewel]

maneaters seem to be specifically designed not to be fought, with their damage resistance and apparent zap gun resistance

[opal cairn]

ok but vanilla zap gun is 400 credits, requires taking time to learn how to properly use it, and is arguably (and easily for most people) the worst tool in vanilla

its kind of fucking stupid it doesnt let you counter maneaters when in vanilla its one of the most restricting monsters to deal with

and it barely has use as is

[jolly raven]

saying that when extension ladders exist is crazy!!

[opal cairn]

saying extension ladders are the worst vanilla tool is crazy

[jolly raven]

give me a single use case for them that isn't accessing offense fire without the jump

[opal cairn]

adamance

[jolly raven]

ooh that like jump thing y'all do right right

[opal cairn]

also funny enough using an extension ladder to get to main faster on offense is a better idea

[jolly raven]

still tho i'd say it's fairly limited

[opal cairn]

main is faster delivery anyways

mineshaft kinda ruins it though..

[opal cairn]

no its just faster than tree jump

tree jump requires setting up scrap to be able to properly grab it

with a ladder you dont need to do all that

and its good for people who dont know how to do tree jump

[jolly raven]

https://tenor.com/view/annoying-orange-pear-teto-teto-pear-pearteto-gif-4234242764455108141

hmm fair enough

[meager estuary]

How have you not brought up Titan ladder strat

That’s the definitive one and completely changes how the moon plays

[opal cairn]

im not gonna lie my brain died on it

i was thinking "doesnt a snow moon have a thing???"

i am dumb

[jolly raven]

old dine used to have a ladder thingy

[jolly raven]

oh true yeah

i wouldn't say it completely changes the moon tho

lol

it just puts scrap slightly closer

you can still drop shit on the lights side

[opal cairn]

it also makes you do less movement shit

[meager estuary]

Skipping the entire stair case is a bit more than “slightly” imo

[opal cairn]

which can be very important

time is the most important thing in lethal

[jolly raven]

i'd say it's p slight

[meager estuary]

Dropping a ton of items directly onto the snow from main saves you from taking the 20 second trek up the stairs

If saving possibly minutes is slight to you then I guess we agree to disagree

[jolly raven]

it's not a 20 second trek lol

again I don't think the difference is that huge but I get your point

[opal cairn]

you underestimate it

[meager estuary]

Purple how long do think climbing to main on Titan takes

[opal cairn]

about 20 seconds but no one is doing the full climb back up, ive never seen anyone not think about dropping things down from main

[jolly raven]

im not talking abt main for the trek btw

im talking like, below the lights

that's like tops 10 seconds i don't think it's 20

[meager estuary]

Ah

[opal cairn]

just to say if you do it that way

[jolly raven]

yee I started doing it p early on

[opal cairn]

its more efficient to jump onto the railing of the stairs down and then drop items down again from there

instead of jumping down to ship

and going back up the stairs

[meager estuary]

I will say, monsters tend to camp that platform below the light, dropping items right into the snow gives you one less thing to worry about

In addition to time save

[jolly raven]

tru ye

tho I tend to bait dogs in order to get around that

[opal cairn]

does he not know the clown horn strat

[jolly raven]

I hop down onto one of the lights and make nosie and then once they're on the stair I jump down to the bottom to grab the stuff

it's not optimal I just think it's fun lol

[opal cairn]

ok he does

no id say thats optimal

[meager estuary]

It is a good way to clear it up

[opal cairn]

its a really good tech

[jolly raven]

oh lol

ye it's fun asf

[meager estuary]

Even if you disregard Titan strat, Ladder still has a lot more going for it than Zap Gun imo

Even if you have a teammate who is cracked at Zap Gun, you now have 2 players spending time killing monsters instead of looting, and for 400 credits the battery is not very good. I would personally not call it totally useless, but it is easily the worst shop item imo

[jolly raven]

oh no yeah i think both are ass

or rather pretty situational

[meager estuary]

The people who think the highest of Zap Gun are HQ players funny enough, because there is a glitch where a player being zapped by one is immune to death pits, so in the Factory belt room you can go down there with a Jetpack to get items that spawned down there

[trim breach]

maneaters "resist" stuns but the zap gun is still useful against them

because they are completely prevented from lunging when they are stunned

and they are only able to kill players during lunge

definitely not something im going to change here because as far as i can tell this isn't a bug

i could make it freeze them in place in butterybalance, though, i suppose

[trim breach]

anyways not to weigh in on this conversation again but the zap gun is actually terrible

extension ladders are very niche but in those niches they can be nice

offense and titan are the best known uses for it, but it's good on adamance

used to be good on dine like you said (and still is good on dine if you use a mod to revert the fire exit, but that's neither here nor there)

purple also loves using it on flooded artifice

the zap gun is more or less totally worthless though

[ruby dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1419417618015588466/1420207352615014500/MEMZ-Cat_4.gif

[trim breach]

400 credits for a 16lb "rechargable stun" that only lasts 22s at maximum

and on top of that, you have to play a difficult minigame to upkeep the stun, and you are completely unable to use weapons in the process

i do like that it promotes teamwork (one guy stuns a bracken/thumper/butler/whatever and everyone else shovels it)

but in that regard it is kind of outclassed by the shotgun which can just insta most of those enemies

with one person

and it's a question of "is playing the stun minigame harder than just kiting the thing"

[trim breach]

then again you could argue the extension ladder is outclassed by the jetpack so

[ruby dagger]

Literally just make some of the entities' minigames easier, and it would be a much better item, mainly for taking out dogs and sapsuckers /w a group

[trim breach]

in many cases though, if you want to be "the stun master", i think you are much better off taking a belt bag and filling it with stun grenades

belt bags are 16lbs (just like a stun gun) and for the price of 1 stun gun you can buy a belt bag and 11 stun grenades

[opal cairn]

i was gonna say dont bring up the inside joke

[trim breach]

and then you still have 4 other slots for other tools

[opal cairn]

but i was hoping you moved on

[ruby dagger]

You just

made it apparent though

[trim breach]

including a shovel that you can use with the stun grenades to kill stuff!

so zap gun really loses its niche against everything that isn't extremely stun grenade resistant

a stun grenade wont give you enough time to kill a bracken, or enough time to kill a sapsucker, etc. so zap gun "may be worth it" in those cases still

but i still think it's just got too many drawbacks for a $400 item

[opal cairn]

just to say another problem

the forumla used for how hard the zap guns beam is to maintain is extremely overtuned, to the point that even just x1 on what determines this difficulty can be too much

it works like
every monster has a "stun game multiplier", and the higher it is, the harder the beam is to maintain on them as youre using the zap gun

i dont know the exact mathematics for how much each decimal makes it harder

but i do know its really high scaling

try zapping a barber for 11 seconds
vs zapping a jester for 11 seconds

then realize the barbers game multiplier is x0.83
the jesters is x1

and that may not sound like a big difference

but the jester will take much longer to get the 11 seconds stun on

trust me

[trim breach]

well it doesn't "take much longer" because it's the same amount of time

it is just harder to manage

[opal cairn]

thats what i mean

it will take you longer to be able to do 11 seconds on a jester

just as an example

[trim breach]

also i dont think barbers are 0.83x because i think all of the enemies have only a single decimal difficulty multiplier

they might be listed on 1a3's site

[trim breach]

yeah

[opal cairn]

i see

[trim breach]

barbers are actually 0.7x

[opal cairn]

oh lol

[trim breach]

jesters 1.1x

[opal cairn]

wtf

[trim breach]

the value you want is "stun difficulty multiplier"

[opal cairn]

it still is a difference that doesnt sound very high

but it is when you actually practice it

and for reference
unless youre a batshit insane person, you are not sensibly using zap gun on sapsucker to where someone can kill it

the sapsuckers multiplier is 1.6, the highest in vanilla

[ruby jay]

I think the zap gun could get it’s price cut in half

And then it would be somewhat well balanced, I guess

[thorn breach]

I dont think the zap guns balancing lies in reducing or increasing its price

You still wouldn't buy it unless it was first day and it's like 0 ig

[jolly raven]

can't you stop jesters on their tracks by zap gunning em?

also yeah i agree it's really bad lol

[jolly raven]

forgot it was 400 by default goddamn

idk what mod i have that sets it to 200

[opal cairn]

funny thing is i literally had a dream where i did this just now

the focus wasnt even lethal company it just suddenly turned into that for the last 8 minutes

[jolly raven]

so locked in you dream about the game

[opal cairn]

i actually barely have surprisingly

this is the 3rd time

[ruby dagger]

What's the point if they're zapped in ass-munching distance of you

They ramp up speed quick

[jolly raven]

for someone else to run away prolly

[trim breach]

you can do this with any sort of stun

usually it's done with a radar booster and someone looping the jester

but it's possible (and honestly probably much safer) to do with stun grenades

[jolly raven]

ye but it's easier to do when the jester's running at ya

I know that it's not the best way and that the zap is outclassed lol

I'm just entertaining the idea of certain use cases

[trim breach]

with the lock on time of the zap gun im not convinced that is the case

the jester has to be close enough for the gun to lock on but slow enough that you aren't devoured before it actually starts beaming it

[ruby jay]

Idunno I feel like it’s a decent price since it’ll eventually go on sale and make it extremely cheap. Also SBT makes the zap gun a lot nicer so yeah

[trim breach]

a price buff (and battery buff) would go a long way

but it really suffers from use case issues

not just stats

SBT adding more functions to the zap gun is what actually helps it there

[meager estuary]

Yeah SBT is the mod that saves the Zap Gun imo, in vanilla it could be the same price as a Stun Grenade and still arguably be worse

[trim breach]

i think ill push 1.15.2 with the key fix and experimental orbit fix today

anybody been running into trouble with the inventory thing?

[subtle compass]

nothin i can report regarding the inventory collection

[opal cairn]

it works great

0 issues afaik

[radiant nymph]

I haven’t seen any issues

[trim breach]

eventually i will probably remove the config setting for it if it can be confirmed it doesn't cause issues

but idk

maybe i will just leave it

[jolly raven]

what are both of those? sorry if you've explained it before I'm just curious

[slate venture]

Keys will display the key icon on the radar if you set keys are scrap to true.

Experimental Orbit is about eggs, sappeckers, and when the game calls the client when it's in orbit or not.

[trim breach]

lol sorry i totally forgot i was gonna do that

i need to test the key change real quick

i meant to do it earlier and then got caught up and never came back

after that i will push

[opal cairn]

trolled!

[trim breach]

ok

[livid plover]

what all does this mod soft depend on

i got a cyclic dependency error after the latest coderebirth update and it did mention this mod here

cr is already handling it but they said i should ask if this mod has any soft dependencies it doesnt really need

in order to prevent cyclic dependency errors in the future

error for reference

[trim breach]

i believe the only mod here i have marked as a soft dependency is general improvements

because i fix a lot of the same bugs and disable my patches if GI is installed

[trim breach]

honestly looking at all of these mods

they all have like a dozen dependencies

and i can't even tell how it would be causing a cyclic dependency

[thorn breach]

BF -> GI -> CR -> MSU -> BCR -> SSS -> BF

I didnt need to soft depend on MSU for the timing of my code execution so I just got rid of it from the bepinplugin part

[trim breach]

SSS doesn't depend on BF though

unless I misunderstand

what you mean

[thorn breach]

I was fairly sure it soft depended on BF

I'll check

Oh huh

You are right

It has one for GI, so it would still happen

But idk why BF is mentioned in this lol

[trim breach]

maybe because GI is causing the loop, it just mentions any mod that depends on GI

idk

[ruby dagger]

Hold on, is this whole orbit thing the reason why sapsucker eggs are notoriously hard to bring to the ship?

[jolly raven]

no I think they're just like that

[livid plover]

They are hard to bring but this specifically is that they would hatch immediately when a client picks them up (I think)

The sapsucker and its eggs have a test mode that is activated when theyre spawned before the ship lands

For the host this is fine cus theyre marked as landed as soon as the lever is pulled

But clients get the mark after the doors open, which is after the sapsucker is spawned typically

So clients would be in test mode while host is not

[ruby dagger]

Zeekerss, bruh

[trim breach]

no sapsucker eggs are just intentionally supposed to be "suicidal to acquire"

[meager estuary]

Something for BYB could be that the eggs have a dynamic timer to hatch based on the nest’s distance from the ship. This could open up the Sapsucker to spawn on different moons

That way it is always challenging but not straight up impossible depending on the spot

[opal cairn]

@trim breach it seems like the recent butteryfixes update made items get collected when theyre just on the deck

im not sure if this was intentional

[trim breach]

i didnt change anything regarding item collection in 1.15.2

and im not sure this would be the case even with the AutoCollect setting

the AutoCollect setting should only collect the items in your inventory during the normal circumstances where the item in your hand would already be collected

it shouldnt be changing any collection criteria

do you have a specific set of steps that cause items to be collected with BF that does not collect items in vanilla?

there's a bunch of crossed wires with the collection logic so having reproduction steps would help

[opal cairn]

it just seems to be happening all a sudden

no specific steps

just any moon

but i guess its not BF

[slate venture]

maybe reverbtriggersfix experimental on?

[opal cairn]

havent touched its config

[opal cairn]

@trim breach "End orbit early" is broken completely

its causing days to not properly pass by often

[trim breach]

turning the setting off fixes it?

[opal cairn]

well

i spoke like 5 seconds too early

my friend just found it isnt that

[trim breach]

because you have this error in your logs, crashing TimeOfDay.OnDayChanged:

InvalidOperationException: Sum cannot be 0 or negative
  at MrovLib.WeightHandler`1[T].get_Sum () [0x00049] in ./WeightHandler.cs:131 
  at MrovLib.WeightHandler`1[T].RandomIndex () [0x00006] in ./WeightHandler.cs:151 
  at MrovLib.WeightHandler`1[T].Random () [0x00000] in ./WeightHandler.cs:157 
  at WeatherRegistry.Algorithms.WeatherRegistryWeatherSelection.SelectWeathers (System.Int32 connectedPlayersOnServer, StartOfRound startOfRound) [0x0017e] in ./Algorithms/RegistryAlgorithm.cs:67 
  at WeatherRegistry.Patches.SetPlanetsWeatherPatch.GameMethodPatch (System.Int32 connectedPlayersOnServer, StartOfRound __instance) [0x00180] in ./Patches/SetPlanetsWeather.cs:61 
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) StartOfRound.DMD<StartOfRound::SetPlanetsWeather>(StartOfRound,int)
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) TimeOfDay.DMD<TimeOfDay::OnDayChanged>(TimeOfDay)
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) StartOfRound.DMD<StartOfRound::PassTimeToNextDay>(StartOfRound,int)
  at (wrapper dynamic-method) StartOfRound+<EndOfGame>d__285.DMD<StartOfRound+<EndOfGame>d__285::MoveNext>(StartOfRound/<EndOfGame>d__285)
  at UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) [0x00026] in <e27997765c1848b09d8073e5d642717a>:IL_0026 

[opal cairn]

oh

this is wesleys fault then

or well

maybe not

@thorn breach is this your doing still as i mentioned in dms

i would say its wesleys fault but i dont have his weathers in the other mod pack this was happening

[radiant nymph]

You should prolly still let Wesley know about that error though

[opal cairn]

i dont think this is mrov either cause

this wouldve happened weeks ago

[radiant nymph]

That being said this might explain our issue on Roart the other day

[opal cairn]

if it was

[radiant nymph]

round ended for me but not clients

like it ended and the game saved

but the moon didn't unload for them

[opal cairn]

@weary ice hi

[radiant nymph]

I may just roll back Buttery Fixes to the previous version if this is the case

Cus I do need the Sapsucker fix

[opal cairn]

well i dont think it is this now

unfortunately i just pushed mod pack updates also so

internet misinfo spreading

yay!!!!

[radiant nymph]

Well iirc the new update adds more experimental stuff

so it could still be this

When it happened to me

I had no errors on my end and clients only had errors relating to TerminalAccessibleObject

So yeah I'll prolly roll ButteryFixes back to 1.15.1 for tomorrow

@trim breach Curious what you changed with 1.15.2 compared to the previous fixes for the Sapsucker tbh

[trim breach]

there is no need, clients can just turn off the EndOrbitEarly setting

[radiant nymph]

Wouldn't that disable the Sapsucker fix though?

[trim breach]

the EndOrbitEarly setting only fixes the eggs insta-hatch glitch

[radiant nymph]

Ah

[trim breach]

i already fixed the sapsucker in 1.14.3

[radiant nymph]

It will be good to know why it causes this though, I know that when we played on Roart I got really bad lag one round so I left, the game ended and saved and everything for me

[trim breach]

but i wasn't 100% sure it wouldn't cause other issues, so it's an "experimental setting" and i'd like to know if you can verify there are problems while you're using it

[radiant nymph]

but clients still saw the moon loaded

[trim breach]

im very doubtful i am causing this

the only thing EndOrbitEarly does is tell clients to end ship phase as soon as the lever is pulled

[radiant nymph]

Idk, like I said I had no errors in my host log and clients had errors relating to the terminal unless the Terminal erroring broke it

this was the only error they had

[trim breach]

if you are only getting errors while clients have that setting enabled, and clients disabling that setting verifiably causes no more issues to occur, it would be helpful

[trim breach]

private void Update()
{
    if (!GameNetworkManager.Instance.localPlayerController.isInHangarShipRoom && !StartOfRound.Instance.mapScreen.overrideRadarCameraOnAlways)
    {
        return;
    }
    if (Vector3.Distance(StartOfRound.Instance.mapScreen.mapCamera.transform.position, this.mapRadarObject.transform.position) < 8f)
    {
        this.mapRadarObject.transform.localScale = Vector3.Lerp(this.mapRadarObject.transform.localScale, new Vector3(1.8f, 1.8f, 1.8f), Time.deltaTime * 10f);
        return;
    }
    this.mapRadarObject.transform.localScale = Vector3.Lerp(this.mapRadarObject.transform.localScale, new Vector3(1f, 1f, 1f), Time.deltaTime * 10f);
}

[radiant nymph]

but they did say it kept spamming after going into orbit when the moon didn't unload which normally that should fix it

[trim breach]

TerminalAccessibleObject is the script used for hazards (turrets/landmines/spike traps) so they can be toggled via terminal

[radiant nymph]

going into orbit usually stops that error from spamming on clients

Yeah I am very confused

[trim breach]

anyways

[trim breach]

the only difference between 1.15.1 and 1.15.2 with EndOrbitEarly disabled is that keys will still display the scrap icon on the radar if you use KeysAreScrap

[radiant nymph]

Got ya

[trim breach]

im like 99.9999999% confident you and purple are experiencing bugs with other mods

[radiant nymph]

It could be smth with DawnLib possibly idk

[trim breach]

i am very doubtful EndOrbitEarly would make any difference here, but if you are verifiably encountering bugs with it enabled, i would like to know (so I can either remove it, or at least make it no longer enabled-by-default)

[thorn breach]

No references to dawnlib in that log so idek if you have it installed lol

But WR errored

So pretty sure it's a WR issue

I dont get why your log never says whether smthn is an error or not

Makes it annoying to search

[radiant nymph]

Yeah in the case it happened to me idk what happened

let me share my log and a client log

My log

client

Nothing except the terminal freaked out

That's why I said I thought it was the new option in Buttery Fixes

[thorn breach]

Do you have someone adding in a new "variant" or whatever of the baboon hawk?

[radiant nymph]

Wesley's Enemies might have 🤔 I do know the ransom error is the Baboon reskin for the Ghost Girl that beef did

Idk what Wesley's Enemies adds tbh

[thorn breach]

ESR skins should be fine

[radiant nymph]

I had bad lag that round though so I had to leave

[thorn breach]

The problem is that someone's adding in a baboon hawk enemy but not properly registering them into the network lisf

So it'll cause desyncs

[radiant nymph]

then the moon never unloaded on clients

[thorn breach]

That's the first problem I've noticed anyway

[radiant nymph]

fun

The Stormy Weather error that day was cus Wesley accidentally broke it with his Weather mod, but that errored on game boot which would have just prevented stormy weather from rolling most likely

At least we never got Stormy to roll

lol

[thorn breach]

20k errors on client log no ty

Immediate errors with AN

[radiant nymph]

Idk why AN errors sometimes it's never consistent

Idek if AN is necessary anymore half of it doesn't seem to work anyways

[trim breach]

nothing that additionalnetworking fixes has been fixed in vanilla

[radiant nymph]

That's true, but the item state stuff never works

[trim breach]

ive never had any issues with it outside of this

• Sync noise status for AnimatedItems ( Owner will sync the status of the AudioSource )
  feature not working

[radiant nymph]

like the fix for the boombox and toy robot

they always desync

Ye

[trim breach]

the boombox fix works fine for us

[radiant nymph]

Ah maybe he fixed that with the Experimental update

but the toy robot and stuff still don't sync

[trim breach]

we dont use experimental

are you sure you dont have some other mod desyncing the boombox?

[radiant nymph]

Dunno then I've had it not work in the past and nothing touches the boombox

I'm certain

[trim breach]

yes, it's true that this does not work

[radiant nymph]

unless TME fucks with it

[trim breach]

i dont know if it has ever worked

thanks for the reply bug discord

[trim breach]

this

[livid plover]

is the AN username sync still needed even if mods like fixplayername are installed

[versed sapphire]

You've hit this condition, which means that you have multiple weathers that have 0 weight

if only there were logs to show you what they were 🙃

[slate venture]

Its fixed with the experimental update

[radiant nymph]

No it’s not

[slate venture]

Here its working now.

[opal cairn]

@versed sapphire @thorn breach the reason my log "isnt normal" is because i disabled the bepinex log displaying all messages besides fatal, error, and warning
but the keyword here is displaying, those messages still generate, according to buttery, idk how to see them because im not versed with this stuff
and the reason i did this in the first place is it slightly improves performance with loading the game

[opal cairn]

one problem though
i dont
when i installed wesleys weathers, the only change i did to the WR config was enable the vanilla selection system

by default, WR has weights set up for wesleys weathers, and all vanilla weathers besides dust clouds
but you said i would need multiple with 0 weight

[versed sapphire]

wait you had vanilla and got that error?

oh jesus

[versed sapphire]

you could setup different types of logging in console and saved on disk, but I don't really know how you can access logs that are disabled (and presumably didn't get saved)

[trim breach]

well

when zeekerss announced the possibility of a lethal company patch yesterday i was ecstatic

but then the monkey paw curled and a unity update changed everything

[thorn breach]

This patch is so fucking funny

But we were forced to have a Unity update

Out of zeekerss hands

[trim breach]

yeah

i was checking the changelog on 1a3's site

and there's so much bullshit

[thorn breach]

It's hilarious

[trim breach]

that just appears to be automatic compilation changes from unity networking

[thorn breach]

The dine changes??? Funny af

[trim breach]

they sound kinda funny

[thorn breach]

Totally unplayable without more time in the day but funny

[trim breach]

i think zeekerss was right when he said "if you hated dine before you're gonna hate it even more now"

[thorn breach]

I love it even more

[jolly raven]

I'd say with a gopher and a jetpack or cruiser it very much is, but very funny nonetheless

[jolly raven]

right?

[thorn breach]

Idk what a gopher is

[trim breach]

he dropped some hints yesterday in the patreon channel and that + the posts on patreon about "adding new scrap to a specific moon"

i guessed right that he was adding organ scraps i guess

[thorn breach]

Also looting like 200 items is unrealistic no matter how much manpower and tools you got tbh but yeah lol

[jolly raven]

in this case the person who takes items to the ship exclusively

[thorn breach]

Ah

[trim breach]

what i did not expect was "over 200 items spawn worth almost nothing"

[thorn breach]

Yeah I reckon u could transport about 100 of em with a group of 4 assuming the fire exit and main are far

[trim breach]

anyways i'll need to give it a try before i could make any serious decisions about it but i imagine dine is going to play even worse now

and that is kind of unfortunate

[thorn breach]

There were some scannode changes too that are nice

[trim breach]

but im glad it has something super unique about it, rather than just being "rend but terrible"

[thorn breach]

And a new item script

Yep

[jolly raven]

and thats on average 1k, so I'd say it's embrion tier funny with slightly increased value

[thorn breach]

Yeah

[jolly raven]

which is fucking awesome

[trim breach]

yall im not sure what to do about the scrap spawns

[thorn breach]

I really like the idea of how dine works rn tbh 😭

[trim breach]

in v70 zeekerss did this

[thorn breach]

I just wish the moon had more time in it

[trim breach]

and in v73 he reduced zed dog's spawn chance on vow and rend again

so im assuming he intended to revert these changes

[jolly raven]

yee

[trim breach]

but he left in the code that adds 30 spawn weight to gift boxes... which im nearly certain was intended to boost the spawn rate of zed dog (since he added it in the exact same patch as the above screenshot)

[jolly raven]

tbf the corpses could be there constantly for halloween and then they could be less frequent

[thorn breach]

Wasnt the gift boxes stuff meant for the anniversary?

[jolly raven]

after the next update

[trim breach]

no he added that code in v69 jolly

[jolly raven]

kind of like interior fog and all those halloween features

[thorn breach]

Oh hmm

[trim breach]

and then removed it after v69 removed the jolly stuff

and then added it back when v70 buffed the zed dog rates (except i think he forgot to change the item ID)

now that the zed dog event is over i should probably remove my patch that redirects the gift box adjustment to zed dogs

but im not sure if he intends for it to be there in the first place

i guess im just gonna have to ask

[winter widget]

i think you could get pretty close or even above 200 with a 4 man and a cruiser jump

[trim breach]

i never got an answer 🥲

maybe he is just busy right now

worst case i guess i will just default to vanilla's behavior

and leave the boosted gift boxes

my personal interpretation is that he meant to boost zed dog's spawn rates with that change

and that he would have reverted it in today's update

but without being able to say for certain i guess i just wont mess with it

nvm he just told me it was an accident

so it will probably get removed in the next version

and in the meantime i can just patch it out

[meager estuary]

I think the scrap could be good, basically a secret meta moon if your team is cracked at the game. HQ players like Bread are optimistic and I will be watching with much interest. Reportedly Dine now averages ~2600 credits which theoretically puts it above Artifice.

I think the real issue with Dine has always been the insane monster spawns, especially after v60. It could be 200 perfume bottles and a lot of players would probably still rather stick to Titan and Artifice to avoid 8am Giants

I think with BYB the new Dine could go crazy, though granted the skill level of the average crew is likely not up to par. It’s not like anyone (serious) was going to Dine anyway

[winter widget]

Personally I dont see it being better than art in the long run, you need to get at least 77% of the items back (170+) every day for it to be worth it over old art and in my best attempt so far with a really good crew of high quota players we managed to get 162 items back by jumping the cruiser that was parked right outside fire at 11:50pm
There could deff be some optimizations but i'd say that would put you just barely above 200 items in the best case scenario, which is just not sustainable for a long run where you want consistency

(the day just after we got an ecl mineshaft with same side exits for a 700 day :])

[trim breach]

to be clear i wasnt talking about dine

just the zed dog thing

dine is whatever to me

i feel like dine would feel better with half as many items worth double the value

it is a little goofy opening up a cupboard and finding fukken 12 items inside Lol!

[subtle compass]

monsters + main/fire position post v60 (iirc it was post v60)

[trim breach]

but i dont conceptually hate the changes and it's not a bug that needs fixing anyway

butterybalance will probably offer a "rollback scrap" option for dine

that uses the loot table and scrap counts i gave it in v72

[trim breach]

and then a separate "consolidate" option that does this

or you can disable both and Just Play Dine

anyways

i kind of avoided the entire modding scene yesterday

was doing other stuff with friends and was really dreading the process of getting back into it

i need to re-rip the entire game again and the last couple times i've tried i ran into really annoying issues

but im gonna go do that now and try to get to where i can rebuild all my asset bundles

[subtle compass]

the patcher is broken right now :(

[trim breach]

oh nevermind

guess i'll just die

[subtle compass]

nomnom said they're really busy with life as well

[trim breach]

... thankfully, im sure 2022.3.9 asset bundles probably work ok right now...

[subtle compass]

this is the error you get if you try to rip v73 files

[trim breach]

well i wont pretend i know how to fix it

but i believe og assetripper has support for unity 2022.3.62

so maybe it is as simple as redirecting to a different more up-to-date version of assetripper

or ripping it manually and finding some way to feed it that output instead

i think i broke my project when i tried to just update it to 2022.3.62 though

so there might be some under the hood stuff that changed

i got some HDRP errors and it broke a bunch of materials

[subtle compass]

maybe.. i don't know the ins and outs myself

[jolly raven]

oh....... did you back stuff up?

[trim breach]

yeah

im familiar with unity updates or re-patching destroying everything

i never make changes like that without backups

it does kind of irk me that all of my mods are running 2022.3.9 asset bundles, would be nice to rebuild them so they can be paritous with the actual version of unity lethal company is running

but unless it causes major issues i guess i just wont bother worrying about it for now

im hopeful most of my mods aren't broken, in that case

most of the stuff i've made is clientside

BRB is definitely cooked because it's built with netcode patcher

but it sounds like there's maybe a solution to that already?

the only thing i need to do for butteryfixes is change the zed dog fix

[jolly raven]

thank god

[trim breach]

i was made aware there's a lot of weird networking bugs with vanilla now

[jolly raven]

yeah I wouldnt worry about it for now :)

[trim breach]

so i wouldnt be surprised if some other random thing changed i will eventually need to patch

[jolly raven]

for now we just enjoy the flayed corpses and max sound issues on Dine

[jolly raven]

oh lord, it really was a rushed update huh

[trim breach]

like apparently there is a brand new issue where [if a host disconnects, everybody else remains inside a broken lobby instead of going back to title screen](#1424160944904470538 message)

[trim breach]

"rushed" for sure, zeekerss is trying to release WttDP in less than 3 weeks

[jolly raven]

just read that yeah

[trim breach]

but i think this is actually a case of the NfGO update causing weird changes to previously fine code

[jolly raven]

ye, he definitely just wanted to get the security update out and included some new stuff in there as a treat

[trim breach]

like some assumption it used to make is no longer true in the new version, so the code doesn't run right

someone will probably make a mod to patch it. or zeekerss will patch it when he comes back

[trim breach]

thankfully i dont think this is too bad an issue, since all network objects despawn you can just leave the game and find a new lobby

[trim breach]

oh yeah that reminds me

are you using lc max sounds fix??

i know that dine is kind of a mess because of all the scrap items with buzzing flies and heartbeats

but if lcmaxsoundsfix still works, that will definitely help

you can increase the number of "voices" if the mod's default isn't enough anymore

[jolly raven]

I haven't actually played on the newest version yet

[trim breach]

IC

[jolly raven]

ye i just saw there were some people talking about that in zeeks' server and I thought i8t was really funny

[radiant nymph]

Hope you did report it though

[trim breach]

i havent played a ton of the update either

kinda just fucked around on dine

i only found out about the bug because other people have been reporting it in zeekcord

[thorn breach]

If you accidently got like 5 notifications that I reacted with the rainbow flag on your messages, I blame discord for adding a double tap feature, I'm just trynna read the thread 😭

[trim breach]

Lol

[thorn breach]

Lordfire spent a good half day yesterday updating it so that parts fine, pin in dev general is for updating the cli

[thorn breach]

I wonder why zeekerss never raises the max sound amount on his project

[paper garden]

because

[opal cairn]

well, it does take performance on hardware to have a lot of available sounds

but it wouldnt be that big of a deal if he just did what lcmaxsoundsfix does

[trim breach]

oh cool

[trim breach]

why

[opal cairn]

EMERGENCY WEATHER ALERT
METEOR SHOWERS DE

[meager estuary]

I see, I assumed it was going to be tight if possible. There is still a possibility though, it will at least make for fun videos

[meager estuary]

That is how I would do it, largely keep to Zeekerss’ vision but make it more practical

[meager estuary]

Well it wouldn’t be a Lethal Company update without those right?

[trim breach]

sorry ive been a bit slow on the uptake today

but i should be ready to push the butteryfixes update any second now

the butterybalance update will be more involved

because it needs more than a recompile

i need to finish the snowmen setting and then completely change how i handle dine

nvm i guess i need to fix this

[subtle compass]

what's broken with the hand?

[trim breach]

having a pocketed item with bugs crawling on it renders the bugs anyway

also it's so goddamn creepy eegh

i dont like it

[subtle compass]

lmfao

[subtle compass]

yeah it's pretty bad

[jolly raven]

horror game

but I will give you that, it's a very strange turn LOL

[trim breach]

it's true bugs just really fuck me up though

[jolly raven]

totally understand lol

[trim breach]

if i can just shove it in my pocket and ignore it it's not too big of a deal

[jolly raven]

they're just full on cockroaches too

not low poly vague bugs just fucking roaches

ough

[jolly raven]

ye

[trim breach]

but i need to fix this bug so i can do that

i guess

now

[trim breach]

yes cockroaches especially get me

i can usually handle a lot of "traditional horror elements", even pretty nasty gore, but something about insects is a bridge too far for me

[subtle compass]

you could add a config in butteryfixes to turn them off perhaps?

[opal cairn]

dont tell me you dont like weevils though

[subtle compass]

i can't imagine you're alone on that

[opal cairn]

weevils are awesome

[trim breach]

probably wont add a config to butteryfixes

since it's not really a "fix" in any sense of the word

[subtle compass]

rename it to ButteryTweaks :)

[trim breach]

but if nobody makes a mod for it (i know there was a trypophobia mod, and a mod that gives the nutcrackers horns instead of guns, etc.) i might pick up the mantle

because it's preeetty bad

[trim breach]

idk i can't stand any sort of bug touching me

but i can appreciate that some of them look cool... from a distance

[opal cairn]

why would the hole of a horn be different

[trim breach]

the nutcracker thing isnt for tropophobia but for a phobia of firearms

[opal cairn]

OH

[trim breach]

it also makes the turrets into "bass cannons"

it's a separate mod

i think debit card used it in their nutcracker dance animation

anyways

[trim breach]

cockroaches dont look cool they are just disgusting

fucking hate those guys

a lot of beetles are cool though

[subtle compass]

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/Chdata/AntiphobiaMod/ it was this lmao

[trim breach]

i guess someone ought to get in touch and see if they'll update for the bugs

if not i could either PR or just make a separate addon

[subtle compass]

idek if it worked pre v73

[trim breach]

ohh true

[subtle compass]

i mean, it might

it's mostly just like, model/texture/sound replacements

[opal cairn]

replaces Circuit Beehive texture with wood or replaces the model with popcorn)
BOZOROS?!?!

[trim breach]

anyways

[trim breach]

the "badFlyPrefab" (what does this effect) only has a 10% chance to spawn on "infested" items, of which said items only have a 25% chance to be infested in the first place

so it really only affects 2.5% of body parts

but considering that dine literally spawns hundreds of them i'd be surprised if you could go a day without seeing at least one

[trim breach]

the other 90% just spawn buzzing flies

which don't appear to be as much of a problem

[jolly raven]

the trypophobia mod sadly doesn't work anymore, it just makes the beehives materialless

[jolly raven]

oh wow

[subtle compass]

it's working but it's not working at the same time

[jolly raven]

oh nah i was talking about a separate one

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/quackandcheese/HolelessHives/

dis one

[subtle compass]

ahh

[trim breach]

kind of a missed opportunity for zeekerss to add a brain item and make it conductive

[opal cairn]

having a small brain
having a normal size brain
having a really large brain
having a brain that shoots freaking lasers

[opal cairn]

maybe he didnt because irl brains disintegrate when you touch them without them being prepared

you can look more into that if you want but it is true

[meager estuary]

I am not creeped out by them, but I was surprised by them. The items up to this point were very clean and up-kept (the items being too grimy was a criticism of Immersive Scraps), and now we have this

[jolly raven]

i think most of the items left over are stuff cannibals don't tend to eat?

the heart maybe was used in some ritual or some weird shit like that

still thinking about the fact that the heart is... still beating, though

[opal cairn]

i dont take it as a sign of cannibalism

[meager estuary]

Probably has to do with all the Butlers

[opal cairn]

its not impossible i just think its more likely the lost people who used to live on dine

[jolly raven]

ye but then you'd also see skulls, no?

[jolly raven]

probably, not really sure

[opal cairn]

i mean theres a lot of body parts missing

and bones

[meager estuary]

I mean the hearts still beat and there is paranormal activity, not sure realism is the priority

[jolly raven]

yeah

im lowk expecting zeeks to add more scrap variety to dine tho, i like the flayed body parts but i want old phones and pills and other bullshit in there too

i never thought i'd say this but...

[ruby dagger]

Fun fact: The heart beats faster or slower depending on your fear factor

[jolly raven]

i think... i think i miss my Candy

[opal cairn]

if youre holding it or nearby it?

[trim breach]

yeah im not really sure how i feel about all of the dine changes

[meager estuary]

All it took was networking getting messed up even more

[ruby dagger]

Holding it

[trim breach]

im glad dine isn't just "rend but fucking terrible" and has a totally unique appeal

[jolly raven]

same

[trim breach]

even if the balance is terrible, it's a reason to visit the damn place

[meager estuary]

The lore is that body parts are the remains of all the players that got eaten by 8am Giants

[trim breach]

but it's also a little excessive that every single piece of furniture has like 20 items in the exact same positions

[thorn breach]

I like it tbh, loot rooms finally feel like loot rooms 🥺

[meager estuary]

This moon would go insane with Bag Config

[trim breach]

i think i would've preferred the scrap items to be priced moderately close to the normal scraps

and then just mixed in with the normal scraps so you'll still find normal items but with a large emphasis on the body parts

[meager estuary]

Definitely gives the euphoria of Titan loot rooms

[jolly raven]

I'm siding with you there

it's a little overtuned

i think 100 min 150 max would be probably fine

and then you just 2x the individual scrap's value min and max

[meager estuary]

Buttery had already mentioned half the items with doubled item value, and I agree

[jolly raven]

wait. i can just do that with lunar config

https://tenor.com/view/wait-a-minute-blue-gif-13515733449254089735

i dont HAVE to wait

oh the power....

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/G0qmd2tXgAA1PVo.gif

[opal cairn]

i suppose its truly time

[meager estuary]

Purple had said you played a good amount of Hyve from Wesley’s moons. What did you think of Foggy weather?

Probably up there with the craziest things I have ever seen in modded Lethal

[trim breach]

ive never experienced foggy hyve actually

i didnt know it was special

[jolly raven]

it's like... horizontal flooded

[opal cairn]

i think i commented on it

[jolly raven]

stop me if you don't wanna hear about it tho

[opal cairn]

no thats just flooded

but both are bad

foggy has an actual colony of bees being blown around in wind

flooded used bees as the "water"

both use pngs of bees

and i hate both

[jolly raven]

oh wait yeah you're right

foggy has ||a swam of bees going around you||, no?

[opal cairn]

yes

[jolly raven]

goated

[meager estuary]

Anyway I am surprised nobody has talked about the tongue item, that one is probably the weirdest one to me. I get decaying body parts, bones, and a heart, as those are all classic tropes, but a giant, clean tongue? Its animations and sound effects also do gross me out just a little

[trim breach]

yes the tongue is pretty gross

but it's like. a fun and enjoyable sort of gross

i like the things you can do with the tongue

[meager estuary]

What can do you?

[trim breach]

this is my favorite v73 screenshot

[meager estuary]

Ah

Does it actually form itself to properly lay on top of item models?

[opal cairn]

no

[jolly raven]

this is a side thing but like, does anyone get the impression that zeeks got these models from somewhere else? they are so insanely realistic lmao

even comparing them to the sapsucker egg which was a single update before it, it's really strange how different they look

[subtle compass]

if the uv map looks like dogwater, then it's probably zeekerss model

[meager estuary]

Maybe, I know at least that a lot of models came from his other games

[jolly raven]

shame i can't really check

[trim breach]

Oh, other than the factory tiles, I did make about seven scrap items specifically for one moon (an idea I've had since forever.) Some people will hate this, haha. I definitely think part of the reason I was able to get this done was because no one really expected this of me (which gives me super powers I guess.)

i guess he doesn't exactly specify he made all the models

[meager estuary]

I would not be surprised if they are custom models though, Zeekerss puts a ton of effort into this sort of thing for no reason

[trim breach]

but personally it looks about like what i'd expect from zeekerss

the hands and feet feel very reminiscent of the coilheads

[jolly raven]

well, "make" implies more than just "adding"

[trim breach]

the ribcage looks like the giant ribcage monsters from the upturned

[jolly raven]

so i'm banking on that he did make them, he just went in deliberately wanting to make em super detailed

[trim breach]

in fact i wouldnt be surprised if he literally reused it

[jolly raven]

idk, looking at the hands compared to every other zeeks hand ever they look a lot more real

[meager estuary]

The game has always been styled to be more realistic, just with a low-poly aesthetic

[jolly raven]

which again might just indicate he randomly locked the fuck in

[subtle compass]

i imagine he just got better at modelling with the amount of shit he's made idk 🤷

[trim breach]

i am not an artist so it's not really my place to comment on this sort of thing

but there's a pretty major difference between "early zeekerss humanoids" like jesse vincent and the bracken

compared to, like, the coilheads

[meager estuary]

Btw is there a v73 patreon post?

[jolly raven]

maybe? but then why can I see where the sapsucker egg's polygons when i inspect em

[trim breach]

which were already designed years ago at this point

[jolly raven]

it's just such a strange inconsistency lmao

i love this fucking guy

[subtle compass]

forgor shade smooth probably

[trim breach]

no

[subtle compass]

the egg is such a simple model anyways

[jolly raven]

yeah

lol

[trim breach]

probably wont be one if i had to guess

[jolly raven]

https://discord.com/channels/750645598293590077/1411866617171677336

zeeks cord message link to a report i made

[trim breach]

the only reason we got the dine update at all was because he rebuilt the unity project instead of just patching the executable

[jolly raven]

it's not super noticeable unless you zoom in tho so it's not that bad

[trim breach]

he is releasing welcome to the dark place in less than 3 weeks and i imagine he's rushing to get that done

[jolly raven]

yee

[trim breach]

this lethal stuff was pretty last minute

[meager estuary]

Yep, and we will have to take the fall 😔

[jolly raven]

totally

[meager estuary]

I feel like he does this a lot, making these over engineered solutions to simply problems that cause more problems due to their complexity

[trim breach]

probably but hey. it's an easy trap to fall into

[meager estuary]

Just shows how much we would benefit from having a little help

[thorn breach]

lethal's code base is already built super well for modding into it, there's not a lot more i could really ask for tbh

[trim breach]

i think the #1 thing that i would like is the ability for host to control map generation

[meager estuary]

The networking is a bit of a disaster I hear

[trim breach]

like if an RPC passed "generate this dungeon ID at this dungeon size" instead of all the clients doing the RNG with the same seed

it's the #1 thing i'd like to play around with more but the fact it's instanced is so annoying

in general im pretty happy with the state of things in lethal but im also probably in the minority of people in this server

[thorn breach]

what would be the advantage of that though, cuz its all host controlled up until the last bit where he rpc's generating with the same seed

[thorn breach]

same

[trim breach]

i dont really like playing with content mods outside of restoring cut/unused content

or special cases like upturned variety, where i can add official zeekerss content that (for one reason or another) was scrapped in the transition to lethal company

[trim breach]

well for example, butterybalance tweaks the interior size of march from 2x to 1.8x

and i have to have a server-controlled network boolean that all the players read

[meager estuary]

I think the game is still in a good place, but I think it could really use a technical fix/QoL update. Fix years-old bugs, put some QoL mods in vanilla, and address oversights with the v56+ content

[trim breach]

so that they can scale the interior on their personal client

[thorn breach]

oh i see what you mean, yeah

[trim breach]

instead of just changing the interior size on the host

[thorn breach]

it's really hard to control that part without having every client do it

[trim breach]

like how the host controls item and enemy spawns and you can just change the weight on the server and be fine

[thorn breach]

its the kind of thing that'd be a tiny change to make happen too from zeekerss end anyway

sadly only real incentive is a modding one

[meager estuary]

I think people would be happier with the game if it didn’t feel like every update since v56 was rushed in some way. I hate to say it but basically every version since then has had significant issues with its new content

v70 was overall pretty good but I hear the Sapsucker causes a memory leak so…

[trim breach]

not familiar with what you're referring to here but it is possible

[trim breach]

also this is maybe kind of true but i feel like lethal dev has always been kind of slapdash

also i dont know if i'd consider v60 "rushed"

[meager estuary]

Wait no I think it might have been that weird Soft Mask function

There definitely was something

[trim breach]

it made a bunch of very big changes and it's pretty hard to catch some of the problems that sprung up from them if you're only testing the game with a handful of friends every couple of days

the holiday updates were definitely rushed and IMO v70 felt like it was too

i think as far as things go im generally very happy with zeekerss' content but it feels like the implementation is getting a lot more patchy as he falls into a pattern of burnout and taking hiatuses

[meager estuary]

Well I have been saying for months that Zeekerss bit off a little more than he could chew with Lethal. Having a more robust beta phase for updates would help a lot

Excellent ideas man but just needs some help

[trim breach]

well to be fair i wouldnt even call him an "ideas man"

he is still totally responsible for the game being assembled and working as well as it does currently

[thorn breach]

he built a pretty huge game, he's a lot more than just an ideas man yeah

[trim breach]

there's a lot of problems with it for sure, you definitely want to play with fix mods, etc.

but lethal company is miles better than the shit most people could assemble in unity being an "ideas guy" with infinite money to throw at assets on the asset store

i just think it's difficult for any one person to make a game at this sort of scale

[meager estuary]

Ye I am underselling him there, my bad

[trim breach]

i would love if we lived in the reality where zeekerss brought on another programmer or two to just work on internals while he made content and "first pass" on designing code for that content

but i also understand that from his perspective as a creative, he probably just isnt comfortable with his big indie project having other people behind it

and he likes treating it as a solo pursuit

which is unfortunate because i think there are ways that it is tangibly impacting the game for the negative

[meager estuary]

Definitely to his detriment imo, he is only hurting himself with that mindset

[trim breach]

but as long as modding it is possible, i am personally not too prone to getting up-in-arms about it

[trim breach]

i mean maybe

i think it's respectable

i aspire to be the sort of person that could make a project like this completely on my own

and i think if i was in the same position i'd probably be a little selfish too

[trim breach]

but from the perspective of a lethal company player, i definitely would prefer being in this reality

lol

if that makes any sense

idk

[meager estuary]

Doesn’t justify it imo. He has consistently dealing with burnout and ideas drought, the signs of being overworked

I will give him credit for at least having ideas on where to take the game though. I look at games like Friday Night Funkin and Yandere Sim where the devs had no idea what to do when their game got popular. Zeekerss is not incompetent, just in a little over his head

[livid plover]

it might also change when wttdp is done

since it seemed like hes been juggling that along with his other projects for a long time

[meager estuary]

I hope

But the damage of v56-v70 is still done

Again I would like a dedicated bug fix and QoL update, but I know many players (particularly the younger ones that likely comprise most of Zeekerss’ audience) would not appreciate that so adding new content is the priority

[subtle compass]

would not appreciate that

i'm curious why people wouldn't appreciate bug fixes and qol updates

something tells me that's not right

[livid plover]

like

not everyone who plays the game is a short attention span zoomer (like me)

[trim breach]

i think there is a very vocal majority of people that dont care about most of lethal's bugs and just want new shit to play with their friends

[meager estuary]

I would love to be wrong. I look at games like Minecraft that also are content-rich but in need of backend fixes, and all people want is new content

[trim breach]

but you also get people posting shit like "who cares about a giant bird how about you fix the servers" every time he releases something like v70

so i feel like the possibility of "zeekerss spends a month working on 0 content and just fixing dozens of bugs in a single update" is likely to please more people in the community than you would think

[meager estuary]

I feel like this is just Discord and Reddit though, which I consider to not be the majority of players

[subtle compass]

there are so many bugs, big & small, that have been in the game for so long, and it would be really nice, imo, to have them fixed in vanilla

[trim breach]

but also, sometimes sourpusses are just gonna complain about whatever zeekerss does. maybe they do it for steam points or maybe they just like ragebaiting people

[meager estuary]

Something also to mention is the amount of misinformation going on about this game. Most people likely do not realize how many bugs there are and how they impact mod development

[trim breach]

it is hard to balance "focusing development time on things that the community is likely to enjoy" with "bending over backwards to give the community everything they want"

and, of course, the desire to work on whatever zeekerss personally wants to see in lethal company, regardless of the potential community impact

[meager estuary]

Most people probably still think Jetpack is meant to be unreliable, and also do not realize that Giants and Old Birds are meant to have stealth mechanics

[trim breach]

(something like the dine update we literally just got, for example)

people like us definitely would be frustrated by new content updates introducing new bugs and being light on fixes for old bugs

[subtle compass]

i think the jetpack is meant to be unreliable to an extent, but some of the bugs can't really be passed off as that imo

[trim breach]

but if we got what we wanted, who's to say there's not an equally sized audience frustrated by the total lack of forward progress on new content for that specific patch?

it is a lot easier for zeekerss to identify what he personally wants out of the game and find fulfillment in developing for that specifically, and not anybody else

so i find it pretty unsurprising that tends to be the direction he goes

[thorn breach]

in an ideal world he's got one extra programmer that works on backend for this type of stuff but we probably wont be living in that world

who knows ig

[meager estuary]

I think that a QoL update should be in order because it would help the long-term health of the game. The game is past its prime and the mainstream internet is branding it and REPO as simple “friend slop” (a term I hate but that is its own conversation), so modders and sweats are what are keeping the game alive. Doing an update that we will appreciate will be an easy PR win, and the QoL changes can provide opportunities for small but impactful changes like Zap Gun buff, moon rebalances, or improved networking

[thorn breach]

i mean he's probably got intetions to improve networking

he didnt need to update the netcoding package but he did

which yes, broke a lot of mods, but i like the change :p

[radiant nymph]

I think he was forced to when migrating to the new Unity build, the old netcode version was prolly incompatible

[meager estuary]

I look at how the Minecraft community is starting to warm up to the Drop update system since Mojang is making them pack a decent punch for how small they are. I think the same could be done here, looking at bugs and underused features rather than making wholly new things. It is less effort and shows you care about all parts of the game

[meager estuary]

I do have to concede that point, it has always been clear that Lethal is HIS game. At the same time though, having considerations for the community is just good practice

[trim breach]

ok i kind of got super sidetracked but im braving the bugs again

and by that, i mean im testing if i fixed the bug bug

[meager estuary]

bug bug

Absolute cinema

[trim breach]

ive fixed plenty of bugs but the one that has been most mentally and emotionally taxing is the actual bugs and their bug

[subtle compass]

the bugs, have bugs, how ironic

only zeekerss could do this

[trim breach]

ugh this actually sucks i feel like actually sick to my stomach running around on dine

every time i hear the flies buzzing inside a cabinet it's like "oh man... is this going to be the one" and there is only the smallest sense of relief when it's not

[meager estuary]

Are you actually gonna throw up or something

[trim breach]

internally the two types of particles are known as "flyPrefab"/"FlyParticle" and "badFlyPrefab"/"WorseFlyParticle"

[trim breach]

nail on the head with that one

[trim breach]

i just cant stand insects 🙁

[trim breach]

now that im aware this is a thing dine is no longer fun and games

[meager estuary]

I solute you for facing your fear for us