Buttery Fixes

[trim breach]

it would have a slightly less disastrous effect on flashlights

you could turn on a flashlight, pocket it, and see the beam but your friends wouldn't be able to

[meager estuary]

I see, very good

Will be turning that off in GI

[hollow fable]

i'll be using AlwaysPickup with caution, i don't necessarily activate the items on orbit, i just like to organize them

[meager estuary]

I bet that is what most people do

[trim breach]

btw i got everything figured out (from before the item sound discussion)

but i think im actually gonna stall a bit longer to add another feature

[meager estuary]

Very nice

[trim breach]

had to decompile an old version of the game for this

it's a restored feature

[hollow fable]

VHS effect on pause menu?

prayio

[meager estuary]

🙏 🙏 🙏

[trim breach]

this is now available in v1.12

i did add a setting to only make it affect the menus

but you can also enable full restoration

which will also apply it to flashbangs, the wake-up animation on joining a lobby, when you are being chased, etc.

it's pretty subtle outside of the menus but i think it feels good

i didn't restore it for the map screen because it looked really ugly and i assume that's why zeekerss turned it off in v9

[meager estuary]

It is finally here 🥹

[meager estuary]

Played around with the VHS filter, it is everything I wanted it to be thanks to much

I should mention though that in v30 it had a bit of a bloom effect in addition to the static, that would be cool too

I am totally fine with this though

[trim breach]

ah

yeah, i knew about this

or at least, i saw it in the files

but when i tried toggling it on

it looked like it didn't do anything

but if it actually worked in some version

i'll take another look and see if i can get it to work

[meager estuary]

Much appreciated, this v30 iteration is the definitive VHS filter for me

[trim breach]

@meager estuary okay i figured it out

it actually does work

but it's such a subtle effect it's basically impossible to see at my brightness level

it's really not even that visible at default

it is noticeable at max brightness though

and looks basically like how bread's clip does

anyways i'll re-enable it in the next version

[meager estuary]

Very nice

Maximum gamma W

[hollow fable]

That film grain option tanks my performance a lot for some reason

[trim breach]

well

it is a post processing effect

[feral roost]

the film grain effect doesnt work on the main menu for me, im guessing something i have overrides it?

[trim breach]

[18:33:07.3711274] [Debug :Buttery Fixes] Film grain: UIEffects

it is showing up in the logs

so my changes are being applied

i will have to take a more in-depth look it seems

[livid plover]

do you know if any changes in butteryfixes 1.12.0 can cause errors with lategame upgrades? after I updated it in my modpack it started causing LGU to error, and when reverting to 1.11.2 the errors stopped. WhiteSpike said the errors were coming from something patching player controller and LGU couldn't patch it properly. Another person told me that they had the same issue, but it didn't happen in a profile that had just butteryfixes and lgu in it, so could it be one of the cross compatibility patches in 1.12.0?

[trim breach]

i dont patch playercontrollerb.lateupdate

and if it doesnt happen in a profile with just bf and lgu

it's probably not related to bf 1.12.0

it is weird that it doesn't happen when downgrading to v1.11.2 but i can't explain that off the top of my head

all that "improved external mod compatibility" meant was that i disabled the ladder sprinting patch if you are using betterstamina or generalimprovements

because betterstamina already supports sprinting on ladders, and generalimprovements will support it in the next update

[radiant nymph]

@trim breach Just wanted to point out that your fix for the money background makes it way larger than it normally would be

Absolutely gigantic

This is GI's implementation which keeps it pretty 1:1 with Vanilla

[trim breach]

i cant see a difference but also i dont patch it if GI or darmuh's terminal stuff is installed

since they already handle it on their own

[radiant nymph]

Ye

[meager estuary]

I do not see a difference, if anything the top image is smaller

[radiant nymph]

Nah it's larger by quite a bit

[low jewel]

i don't even see the money background

[meager estuary]

This is what I see

Top image is smaller

[radiant nymph]

I was talking about the numbers being larger

I need to change the color of that money background idk why it's so barely noticeable tbh

[trim breach]

i should note

i dont patch the text at all

i just resize the box behind the text to fit the bounds of the text

so the text is identical to vanilla

it just doesnt bleed through the right side of the box

(at least not until 9 digits)

[mighty night]

I've been meaning to ask, do you have some patch somewhere that makes the hairdryer sound not spammable? me and my friends wanna be able to spam it still lol

I had a look in ButteryFixes description as well as a few other fixes mods that I have installed and it didn't seem to be mentioned, so not sure where it comes from

[meager estuary]

This mod is the one that patches it

Buttery has a distaste for it and people have asked for it to be reverted already

[eternal lantern]

I dont hate it myself
I hate it when others use it

[trim breach]

yes, i do patch the hairdryer

case "Hairdryer":
    item.spawnPrefab.GetComponent<NoisemakerProp>().useCooldown = 2f;
    Plugin.Logger.LogDebug("Cooldown: Hairdryer");
    break;

the other 3 noisemaker props have cooldowns set and hairdryers use a cooldown of 0 (the default) which leads me to believe zeekerss just forgot to set one

also since the hairdryer sound depicts it being switched on, blowing air, then being switched off, it is objectively incorrect that it could be spammed with no cooldown

i just set the cooldown to 2s since that's how long the clip lasts

but i suppose i could decrease it so that it's off cooldown once the sound of the hairdryer being turned off plays in the clip

the cash register can be re-opened after 2.2s since that's when the sound of the tray closing plays, even though the clip lasts 2.8s

[mighty night]

I'd just rather have an option to not mess with it

I'll let zeekerss fix that if he wants to lol

I've gotten used to it so having that cooldown feels very weird to me

obviously it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for it to do that, but also, it doesn't affect gameplay except for people that have issues with loud noises

[radiant nymph]

I'm the same way I don't like Buttery Fixes changing the cooldowns for items like the Hairdryer, Plushie Pajama Man, and Jack-O-Lantern

I've asked before for an option to not mess with them

[meager estuary]

I can understand nerfing Hairdryer but nerfing Pajama Man is criminal

He is literally meant to be spammed

[trim breach]

i've said it before, and i'm sorry to remain so stubborn about this issue, but i am insistent that this is incorrect behavior that i want to "fix", and i still don't think it creates enough of a problem to warrant a config setting to disable it

i did re-tune the cooldowns a bit to make them less restrictive but i still think they serve a purpose and should exist

[trim breach]

with plushie pj man, i just thought it looked ugly that the animation could be reset before it finished playing, but the cooldown probably doesn't need to last for the entire clip's duration

it's pretty close to idle by 12 frames in (out of a 32 frame animation), so

[paper garden]

What purpose

[trim breach]

well, as i just finished explaining for the hairdryer, they use the default cooldown (likely meaning zeekerss did not manually assign one, and adding room for interpretation as an error)

[trim breach]

and there is also this

you can't switch the same hair dryer on 10 times in a row

it turns on, it turns off, then it can be turned on again, etc.

[meager estuary]

That was part of the charm though, glitching the animation with how much I was spamming it. I use stress balls irl so spamming this was genuinely therapeutic, as silly as it sounds

I know it is “wrong” but it was fun 😭

I need justice for Pajama Man

[trim breach]

i reduced the cooldown to 0.2s in accordance with this

[meager estuary]

In this mod you let us start typing on the Terminal before the animation of our character placing our hands on the keyboard is completed

[trim breach]

i just do not think that these two facts are comparable to each other

your hands are not visible when using the terminal with the optional disabled-by-default setting that removes the typing cooldown

in vanilla, the typing sounds play immediately as you start interacting with the terminal, even though your inputs are ignored for the first 1s, which is bad player feedback

in the case of the terminal it is a QoL change with minimal impact + arguably more correct behavior because you no longer hear key-tap sounds without actually entering anything on the screen

[thorn breach]

wait this mod allows me to type in the terminal immediately?

[trim breach]

you need to enable the LockInTerminal setting which is disabled by default

[thorn breach]

hell yeah, i just thought this was a vanilla bug, literally a life saver from how many times i have to route something on my dev pack lol

[trim breach]

it's disabled by default for a couple reasons, mainly:

1. vanilla's behavior is not objectively incorrect (just undesired in probably most cases)
2. general improvements already implements something similar and could possibly lead to conflicts if used in tandem, i did not test
3. in general I was worried about modded content causing unforeseen issues with "certain interactable objects freeze the player camera" so I want to nip that issue in the bud
4. the bonus of using the setting is IMO just not strong enough to risk #3 being an issue with default settings

that being said it's a nice QoL change and I have appreciated using it

it is functional in all the environments i've tested in and worth trying if it irks you

[thorn breach]

that's fair, ill mess with it and see, i doubt there'll be any conflicts in my pack since its just a few dev mods and coderebirth lol, never installed a fix mod but this is like the ad skip i've needed the last year

[ruby dagger]

I know it's apparently low on your priority list, but could you consider looking into the issue with clients being unable to hide from flying old birds by crouching?

It's pretty serious e.g. if you're the last guy alive, there's a high chance of you getting murked by a flying old bird due to being unable to hide

[trim breach]

it is still in my plans, sorry for the apparent lack of progress on that

[ruby dagger]

No, it's okay. I just wanted to bring it up to see your thoughts on it since I've been having issues with it recently now that I'm playing less blindly

[trim breach]

unfortunately fixing it is not as straightforward as i wish it was

at least, i haven't found a straightforward way to do it the couple of times i've looked into the responsible mechanics

you might already be aware (i dont know how much purple has explained it to you)

but basically the problem is that player visibility is reduced by 25% whenever they are crouching

and old birds can only see threats that are 80%+ visible when they are flying over the map

so crouching puts you almost exactly under the threshold and lets you hide from them as a result

the core of the problem is that the player's status of crouching does not seem to be synced over the server at all

the player just syncs their current animation + their current position to the server and all other clients interpolate them to the correct spot and play the clip

so the only player that gets the "crouch stealth bonus" is the player that owns the enemy that is doing the calculations

old birds are always owned by the host, hence the host crouching lets them hide from old birds

all other clients are considered to be uncrouched by the host, and so old birds see them just fine

mecanim's animator component is kind of a mess and it is really difficult to get information about what animations are currently playing, so it is more difficult than you might expect to sample "is the player doing the crouch animation?" and use that in the visibility check

and there are no RPCs in the vanilla game to sync the crouching boolean to other clients

• custom networking is more-or-less off the table for this mod since it's client-side

[ruby dagger]

That's pretty much the conclusion I drew from this

[thorn breach]

would've been neat if zeekers just did it as an animation event since he syncs animations

[ruby dagger]

Though, there are mods that allow you to turn networking-based features off so the mod can be used client-side (Like QualityCompany), so if you ever figure out a solution to this, maybe you could go that route addressing how people are going to use the mod?

[trim breach]

i dont really want to complicate things by including a setting like that in this mod

what i've been generally leaning towards doing instead is fixing any bugs that require custom networking in butterybalance

since that mod already sets the precedent that every player in the lobby has it installed

now that i think about it, it should be pretty simple to fix this there

at least until i can puzzle out a solution that would work host-side using just butteryfixes

[thorn breach]

are u able to do something stupid like checking the local position's y value of something that would only be like that if the player was crouched

[trim breach]

possible

[thorn breach]

local position might not be the term but yah

[trim breach]

the other idea i was toying with was maybe checking if the player has moved a certain distance within a certain speed threshold without making any footstep sounds

but that'd be so easy to break with mods that significantly change crouch speed

and is really hacky + complicated to set up in the first place

so it's probably "just a bad solution"

[meager estuary]

What about checking if the player’s head is lower to the ground than normal

[trim breach]

i think that's more or less what xu was suggesting yeah

[thorn breach]

i also had the thought of doing a raycast that would check the distance to the ground under you but could just randomly change depending on the terrain

[trim breach]

in a lot of cases that'd probably be sufficient

but i don't know if that works right with custom player models

[thorn breach]

mmm

[trim breach]

it's probably "the best idea so far" in any case

[thorn breach]

also wouldnt work with good ol' too many emotes and whatnot

[meager estuary]

Not a reason to not add it imo

I feel like people with custom models bear the responsibility of their models breaking game mechanics

[thorn breach]

they really dont though

[trim breach]

yes and no

it is impossible for me to provide compatibility with everything and i design all of my mods in the context of "do they work for the stuff me and my friends use" primarily

and i sort conflicts as a secondary concern if it doesn't take away too much from my time and energy

but there are some circumstances where i think that principle would need to stretch a bit too far

[thorn breach]

??? what is this lmao

[trim breach]

like weird pseudo-crouch glitches cropping up because people are using custom playermodels, which don't seem like they should immediately cause issues

[trim breach]

iirc this is used by the nutcracker to detect when players are moving

[thorn breach]

oh interesting

[trim breach]

if this value is within a certain range (like 0.25 or 0.5 or something) it would be able to target you during inspections/chase

[thorn breach]

im assuming there's more stuff being dealt with that value since it would probably be al ot higher than 0.25 or 0.5 lol

but yeah hmm

how does zeekerss even sync animations across players?

[trim breach]

iirc he computes a hash and sends the hash via RPC

then the RPC feeds that hash into the animator and it can "restore" a state based on that

what clips are playing, what playtimes, etc.

that might not be 100% correct though, i am definitely not an expert

that's just what i picked up last time i was looking into this crouch issue

oh lol

you know what

this crouching bug also affects giant line of sight

giants are more easily able to detect players that aren't crouching, i completely forgot they'd exhibit this same bug

so hosts have an easier time avoiding giants than any other player does

[thorn breach]

that's fine, honestly i've got no clue what zeekerss is really doing tbh with the syncing stuff, he seems to do a lot of what "network transform" "network animator" etc stuff manually, either out of ignorance or out of choice

[meager estuary]

Is there a way to have client broadcast to host that they are crouching in a sort of one-way communication that is client-sided?

[thorn breach]

think about it like this:
if there was a vanilla method, that a client calls that would tell the host they're crouching, then yes, we'd just call that as the client, but that does not really exist

[thorn breach]

actually no, just thought about this a bit more, if you're tracking the gameplayCamera's positions, then you'll be fine, MOST custom player models keep the gameplay camera in the same position as actual ingame, cuz any other way is considered cheating (though some custom model creators don't really care but i dont remember seeing any recently)

[trim breach]

maybe with named messages (i have heard things about them but i'm not familiar with them)

the only networking i have done so far with butterybalance utilizes RPCs and NetworkVariables

which must exist on all clients to work properly

you are blocked from joining lobbies if your network prefabs list is not synced

[meager estuary]

Is the HiveFix logic client-sided, like clients can just decide how much hives are worth?

[trim breach]

hive fix logic is host-side

because the host spawns the bees

the bees spawn the hive on the host's client

the host calculates the value of the hive on their client

and then they call an RPC to transmit the value of the hive to all other clients

who then set the value received from the RPC as the value of the hive on their client (after the hive is network spawned)

[meager estuary]

And this infrastructure cannot be used for the crouching bug?

[trim breach]

i see, that might be the angle then

[trim breach]

it could be, but you couldn't add RPCs in a client-side mod

because RPCs have to be defined for all the clients

zeekerss added the price sync RPC to the hives and then compiled the game

so all players will have that RPC available to them

[meager estuary]

I see

[trim breach]

mods have to add custom network behaviors, and then register those network behaviors on the networked prefab list in order to add new RPCs

[trim breach]

and that leads to this issue if you try to do that client-sided

thankfully butterybalance does not have that limitation

which is why I could just implement a crouch sync RPC

I already have a custom networking object that can run RPCs across the server

so

[meager estuary]

If I may, Purple would appreciate having some sort of fix in this mod, he does not want ButtRyBalance in his mod packs but desperately wants a crouch bug fix

So figuring out something here would please at least one person

[trim breach]

it would please me too

i want to fix it host-side

but it is a complicated issue to fix with no clear solution

and implementing it via custom networking will fix the core issue in another, much easier to implement form, in the meantime

[meager estuary]

Is there any way of asking clients for information without the need for an RPC

[trim breach]

possibly named messages but at the moment i have not researched how those work or if they are sufficient in this scenario

[meager estuary]

Hopefully it is the key then!

[ruby dagger]

Speaking of, if you plan to fix flying old birds seeing crouched players in ButterRyBalance, do you ever plan to fix entities rebounding/not being in the correct position as well? E.g. nutcrackers rebounding after firing for clients, and the masked's positions not syncing with the host?

[trim breach]

that's not exactly a bug and there is not exactly a fix

nutcrackers rebounding after firing
this was already fixed in vanilla several updates ago

the problem was that nutcrackers set a certain flag that said "i am playing a special animation right now" and when that flag is enabled, enemies do not sync their position across the server

[ruby dagger]

Weird, because it still happens in-game
I've seen them damn near teleport to Purple before in lobbies where they aren't the host

[trim breach]

so when nutcrackers tiptoed in the middle of aiming their gun, only the host could see them move (because they were calculating their actual position)

and once the nutcracker fired, it would turn that flag off, and they would suddenly sync their position to all other players

which would cause them to warp to whatever position they walked to very abruptly

i think zeekerss fixed that in one of the v56 patches

[meager estuary]

So it is just visual desync for spectating players

[trim breach]

but i don't remember the exact version anymore

well, it is not explicitly visual desync

[ruby dagger]

It seems to happen to Purple in front of his very eyes, so it's probably not just a spectating thing, or maybe it's just seemingly worse in spectate

[trim breach]

enemies still have to network their positions across the server, and other clients still have to interpolate their position

[ruby dagger]

I've seen him go, "wtf", about it as a nutcracker pulls a Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure on his ass

[trim breach]

most enemies only sync their position across the server when they have moved at least 1 unit

[thorn breach]

iirc he also only does it on the doaiinterval?

[trim breach]

which is why enemy movement looks so jittery if you are not the one processing their AI

[trim breach]

yes, that is correct

[thorn breach]

there's also the sync movement speed field

[trim breach]

if you are the one that owns the enemy (usually, that means the host, and in the case of the nutcracker, they are always owned by the host)

[meager estuary]

Sounds like this would 100% need additional networking to address then

[thorn breach]

so many things contributing to what should've just been a network transform lol

[trim breach]

you are actually calculating the movement of the nutcracker

so they move smoothly frame-by-frame

you are just telling all other players, on a 0.2s interval, if the nutcracker has moved 0.45 units of distance from its previous position, what the nutcracker's new position is

then whenever they receive that message (dependent on ping)

they interpolate the nutcracker's current position to the server's synced position

which is a lot less jittery than them just teleporting to the desired position, but still looks jittery (they are only moving smoothly "between steps" that are not actually smooth)

anyways as a visual aid, this is the difference of 0.45 units compared to the nutcracker's scale

[thorn breach]

most of the time you dont notice the jitter since enemies like the jester just blur it out with animation and a huge desire to kill you lol

[trim breach]

for all players other than the player they are *owned by, they can only move in increments of this much distance

[ruby dagger]

I was not expecting to see nutcracker back,”shots”, tonight

[trim breach]

this affects all enemies and is not unique to the nutcracker

it's more or less just a symptom of netlag

it is just extra noticeable on the nutcracker because it is such a tightly paced combat scenario

• unlike other similar encounters (like thumpers) they are always owned by the host

so all other clients are disadvantaged by interpolated networked movement

whereas the host sees the "true movement" of the nutcracker's AI

[trim breach]

thumpers actually change ownership when they target other players

which is why they appear to "jump" between positions the moment they start chasing somebody

but it makes fighting them a lot more consistent for all players, because whoever they are chasing is the one calculating their movement

otherwise shoveling them would be a lot more difficult

[trim breach]

there is no consistency for what enemies do this and what enemies don't

for the most part, almost all of the new enemies are exclusively owned by the host

butlers, old birds, nutcrackers, masked, kidnapper fox, barber, etc.

at some point it seems like zeekerss just stopped designing his enemies around switching client ownership

or at least, that's what i would believe, except that the maneater is an exception to that rule

[thorn breach]

(i think butler changes ownership)

[trim breach]

maybe that's just because the maneater would have to change ownership when it gets picked up (since it has an item component, and items are always owned by the held player)

maybe it's because maneaters are really fast (they also change ownership when lunging at players)

maybe the latter only happened because zeekerss already had to design their AI to work in an ownership-swap scenario for the former

i'm not too sure

but it is notably one of the few recent exceptions\

[trim breach]

i just double checked and you are right yeah, my bad

butlers also change ownership

[thorn breach]

only reason i know is because im pretty sure we talked about this and you corrected me about the butler

[trim breach]

lol that's funny

anyways

what a world we'd live in

if the game used network transforms and network variables

i only just found out there's a networkanimator too

maybe that would've been usable for players too, instead of the RPC approach

[thorn breach]

yah network animator is wack

100% (ish)

there's also a network client transform

[thorn breach]

i think zeekerss made his own fake version of it

which doesnt actually do what a network client transform does so i had to include the code for it in coderebirth lol

[daring steeple]

howso

[trim breach]

wdym by "network client transform"

[daring steeple]

a networktransform with the ability for a non host to write to it

[trim breach]

are network transforms limited to being server-owned, and network client transforms can be owned by other clients?

ok yeah

i see

[daring steeple]

its not offically in NGO but there's an offical implementation in the docs

[thorn breach]

the fact that .settrigger is something you call ON NetworkAnimator rather than the normal Animator but you can still use .SetBool etc on the normal Animator is something that will always look a bit weird

[daring steeple]

no that makes sense in my head

[trim breach]

do booleans sync automatically across a networkanimator? or would you need to do a SetTrigger() each time you want to change it

i guess you could maybe have a client-side script feeding the animator a bool based on a NetworkVariable

shrug

[daring steeple]

settrigger is a fired event, setbool is a value

[thorn breach]

if you have a network animator component, you can just use the normal animator and everything syncs (Assuming that only the owner is actually doing the calls because stuff gets weird if others try to also do calls) except when using SetTrigger, which is for trigger parameters and thats were you have to reference the network animator

[trim breach]

that does seem a bit odd but i guess it makes sense

[thorn breach]

it makes sense in hindsight, but it's not something i would know off the top of my head without having read documentation if that makes sense

[daring steeple]

any other way would be "wrong" in terms of implementation

personally i never use them though

at least in what i've made animations are usually composed in a way where they a reaction to a code state

so if the code state is correctly networked the reactions don't need to be

might be more needed for more complicated setups idk

[thorn breach]

i've found it necessary in scripts like enemyai, rather than just... always running rpc's that are called by the host to begin with i just do it through network animator

[trim breach]

the player is definitely a situation where you'd want to use a network animator

it has like a million clips

and tons of bools and floats and triggers

[daring steeple]

that isn't relevant

my point is that what changes those values should be synced, in theory

[thorn breach]

if most of a player's animator calls are local to itself because zeekerss makes sure most stuff is local, then that would be a good reason i believe

[daring steeple]

you don't need to sync a jump animation if the act of jumping is networked

[trim breach]

sure, but most of lethal company functions without having to network all of those events, he just solved the issue by RPCing a hash of the animator state

like, he probably doesn't need to network an event any time the player is pressing their hands against the wall because they are in proximity of a wall

it makes a lot more sense for that to just be networkanimator synced

[daring steeple]

you don't need to sync this

because you are syncing the player position

you don't need to tell someone to frown if your already telling them to be sad

it's a reaction

[trim breach]

i suppose, but then you are having to do all those calculations for every player on the server, based on where netlag places them on your client

rather than the player that owns themselves handling interactions like that and just telling everyone else they should have a certain clip playing

[trim breach]

not like a couple raycasts are that expensive, and it's a minor detail so it doesn't matter if position + camera angle are perfectly synced, but the principle still applies, i think

[daring steeple]

forsure, hence why i was talking about my experience with using them 😛

for something i haven't experienced like some kinda mmo setup or something at that scale i could potentially see the vision

though if im gonna nitpick i'd still probably just do that example via a networkvariable

if im gonna sync that i mayaswell have the information in a accessible place and not in the depths of an animator

[trim breach]

that does make sense too yeah

[daring steeple]

could also be some valid usecases security wise i guess

where maybe you don't want the client to have any practical control except the ability to manipulate their animations

[trim breach]

all this talk makes me wish we lived in the timeline where lethal company made more use of the other network features

mainly transforms and variables

i think if it was implemented "properly" it would probably make modding a lot more hellish

it is kind of fun how much stuff you can get away with in client-side mods (when you aren't just using them to make cheat mods, because that's lame)

but at times it is kind of annoying to try and backtrace all of the weird RPC workarounds and what behavior causes what

[daring steeple]

yup

once you get a little comfortable with NGO it's actually really chill

[trim breach]

kinda makes me want to try my hand at making my own multiplayer game sometime

i have absolutely no design ideas for a multiplayer game but a prototype just to try out the other tech would be fun

[daring steeple]

let me know if you need any help

did a lil one last year

[trim breach]

the one about the elves in the workshop yeah?

[daring steeple]

ye

[thorn breach]

me and my friends came up with an entire game just walking around campus and seeing geese being annoying to random people on the side walk, inspiration comes in all... um forms i guess

[trim breach]

yeah i remember you posted about it

can't believe it's already been so long since then

unrelated

[daring steeple]

yup

[thorn breach]

i cant believe its been that long

literally

lethal modding starting to feel old

[daring steeple]

turns out they gave me 0 feedback on that project

😔

[thorn breach]

amazing, was that for a like a university or a sort of resume thing?

[daring steeple]

government funding

[thorn breach]

ahh right

[daring steeple]

cool program but 11 out of like 120 candidates we're approved and no failing projects received any specific feedback

[thorn breach]

that does suck

[daring steeple]

somemone pls hire me

[kindred wraith]

well i guess you could still get butterybalance and simply turn off everything except that
i am honestly thinking doing it, just to get march v9 weather system 😂

[eternal lantern]

You can do the weather thing with WeatherRegistry. Although ButteRyBalanced has a bunch more cool features unrelated to scrap and monster spawning.

[kindred wraith]

i know but i don't want to change much beside march anyway
and ye, buttery mod also include some nice server side fixes too

[dense oriole]

when will we get margariny fixes?

https://tenor.com/view/dog-spanakopita-spanakopita006-bacel-gif-24447135

[summer falcon]

you beat me to it.. BUT, i have the better product name 😉

[feral roost]

https://tenor.com/view/butter-dog-gif-14918143408050642066

butter dawg

[steel goblet]

Is anybody else having issues with the v1.12.0 version of the mod making reserved flashlight and walkie slots (from their respective mods) just act like regular hotbar slots? The issue is not present on v1.11.2

[trim breach]

downgrading to v1.11.2 causes it to stop replicating?

i only have reserved slots on one profile, but it works fine there even in v1.12.0, for me

i checked all of the changes from 1.11.2 -> 1.12.0 and i would not expect any of them to affect reserved slots

at least not immediately

[steel goblet]

It's what I'm experiencing. With v1.11.2 of Buttery Fixes everything works fine but on v1.12.0 with the same pack my reserved item slots act like regular slots. I would test it some more but I don't know an easy way to download older mod versions on r2modman.

[trim breach]

what reserved slots mods are you using

i will go have a looksee

also could you post your log if you are actively replicating the issue

my guess as to what could be happening is an unrelated exception being thrown that is causing initialization issues with your mods

[trim breach]

works fine for me

1.12.0 butteryfixes

latest version of all 3 mods listed

[steel goblet]

Here's the log of my pack with ButteryFixes 1.12.0, not sure of how much use this is as it's quite a heavy pack with a lot of other log spam

Player.log file ^

Let me know if you need a different one

[trim breach]

[Error  :  HarmonyX] Failed to patch void GameNetcodeStuff.PlayerControllerB::LateUpdate(): System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index must be within the bounds of the List.
Parameter name: index

it looks like lategame upgrades is failing to patch the player script

[trim breach]

someone else reported this same issue and attributed it to BF 1.12, but i am pretty confident it's a coincidence since I don't patch this method

more over, I was just testing LGU with butteryfixes a second ago to investigate a different bug, and did not replicate this error

[livid plover]

it's specifically an interaction between LGU, BF 1.12.0, and BetterStamina

turning betterstamina off allowed LGU to load with BF 1.12.0

i let flip know about it so it might be something with his patch

[trim breach]

i see

and you can load both LGU and betterstamina without BF?

it's weird that my mod would cause a conflict with a method im not even patching

but maybe there is something else at play im not aware of

it looks like betterstamina is almost definitely the catalyst here, if you read what is happening in the log

[Error  :More Ship Upgrades] [Tools] Couldn't find the occurence of carryWeight field
[Error  :More Ship Upgrades] [Tools] Couldn't find the second occurence of sprintTime field
[Error  :More Ship Upgrades] [Tools] Couldn't find second mul instruction to include our drain method from Sick Beats
[Error  :More Ship Upgrades] [Tools] Couldn't find the third occurence of sprintTime field
[Error  :More Ship Upgrades] [Tools] Couldn't find first mul instruction to include our regen method from Bigger Lungs
[Error  :  HarmonyX] Failed to patch void GameNetcodeStuff.PlayerControllerB::LateUpdate(): System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index must be within the bounds of the List.
Parameter name: index

betterstamina alters the formula for carryWeight affecting sprintTime

which is probably making changes that are incompatible with LGU

[livid plover]

i didn't try just LGU and betterstamina but it was specifically 1.12 of BF that caused betterstamina to do its thing

on 1.11.2 they were all able to load correctly

[trim breach]

that is really bizarre and doesn't make sense to me

but there is probably some sort of explanation

[steel goblet]

I just tried adding ButteryFixes v1.12.0 to my pack and removing BetterStamina and the slots work fine. I have no idea how or why this works either ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[kindred wraith]

@trim breach would it be possible to make the vanilla main menu always displayed over the MoreCompany menu, if the mod is detected ?
because right now since it overwrite the vanilla menu, it also prevent the film grain effect from displaying

[trim breach]

i dont think morecompany is blocking it

because it worked for me with morecompany

oops

i forgot to crop that

one second

thar we go

lol apparently morecompany is disabling the image effects if you have the cosmetic menu enabled

that's probably why people aren't seeing it

i have cosmetics off

im having trouble even finding where morecompany is doing this

[kindred wraith]

ah must be why then, i disable cosmetics for me but some of my friends want them
so i don't turn the feature off completly xd (should have done that at the start xd)

[trim breach]

im not even sure how i could fix this

i might need to reach out to 1a3 and see if he knows what's happening with the cosmetics menu

since he's been maintaining morecompany recently

i'm still confused on where morecompany is causing the issue

because it doesnt look like it's disabling the volume

or disabling the cameras

and in morecompany's repo i don't see where it would be altering either of them

so it seems like it might be accidental

im not sure

[amber sage]

Hello 🙂 Someone reported a bug to me that seems to already exists in vanilla
It's an issue related to the jetpack, I thought you might be interested in adding a fix for it in your JetpackFixes mod. I tried figuring out the cause, but I have no idea, maybe you'll have better luck than me

Here's how to reproduce it, you'll need a jetpack and a shovel:

• Start with the jetpack in your hands
• Switch to a slot with an empty space
• Switch to the shovel slot OR pick up the shovel from the ground
  Observed issue: The player's 'hold' animation remains that of the jetpack

[meager estuary]

That actually happens in a few cases, ever see someone holding a shotgun with the barrels pointed up into the sky?

Now that you say it, fixing this would be nice

[eternal lantern]

It happens with shotguns and knives too

I’ve always wanted it fixed since it bugs me severely but to be fair it is funny to hold something like a shovel as a jetpack and it looks like you stabbed your self with it.

That sounds really morbid in hindsight but with the animation making you look like you have a thumbs up it was funny before I dwelled on it

[trim breach]

this happens with all items, and it should actually be fixed if you use butteryfixes

if you are using butteryfixes and still replicating the issue it means the fix is not working

and i might need to look into why

[meager estuary]

I sometimes have had it happen briefly and then correct itself, like their was a lag in the grab animation or something

[eternal lantern]

Better than nothing

Glad to see it’s fixed with this though. Makes sense why I haven’t seen it in a while

[meager estuary]

Yeah now that you say it, it has been a while

[trim breach]

it's been fixed since august

pacoito figured out what was actually causing the bug

and then i implemented a fix for it in v1.8.0 and v1.8.1

[amber sage]

Oh yes, I tried it the fix works great, thank you 🙂

[trim breach]

cool :)

[meager estuary]

I was having shower thoughts with Alex and Purple tonight, and was talking about if you put “nav gor” or “gor” in the terminal for Gordion, it does not route to The Company Building. Could this maybe be addressed, I for some reason constantly do this

[paper garden]

for future reference since I remembered this

[trim breach]

it's been requested before

i forgot to look into last time so maybe i'll be able to do it now

sorry for my general absence but i've been away doing other things in other spaces

i will update BRB and BF soon (to fix some errors and migrate some stuff)

[meager estuary]

I hope your time off has been nice and reinvigorated you

[trim breach]

been alright

i've really been itching to play LC the past little bit but none of my friends have gotten on for it recently

at least, never enough to make a lobby of 4

[summer falcon]

my group often has the same issue, has 2 or 3 people down to play almost every week, sometimes we get 6, sometimes we get 2.. xD much more fun when there is 4+ though.

[eternal lantern]

I play somewhat frequently with one person but I need to be persistent for everyone to join every 3 weeks

Bit of a pain when LC is currently my favourite game

[dense oriole]

hello chat, i found a weird enemy named "Buttery" and all it does is goes around and fixes stuff

is this normal?

[hollow fable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054684943336349716/1307421730997928027/caption.gif

[hollow fable]

How will this interact with ButteryFixes hehe

For those who are interested 👆

[ruby dagger]

Hopefully this bypasses ButteryFixes' noisemaker cooldown

[meager estuary]

I miss spammy Hairdryer but this is petty

Pajama Man was only one I really did not like but Buttery was (mostly) accommodating

[ruby dagger]

Nah, spamming noisemakers is fun. Adding a cooldown to them without making it even an option is even pettier, especially for a bugfix mod

[ruby dagger]

It does

[feral roost]

calling it petty is harsh, they didnt add the change just to piss people off.

[feral roost]

i dont think this mod existing is petty either, its just patching out something some people dont agree with

[meager estuary]

Yeah yeah we know

[ruby dagger]

Maybe, and I know it wasn't added to piss people off, but it still feels like a slight kick in the teeth for those simply wanting bugfixes, which this mod has like, most of them, so uninstalling ButteryFixes isn't really an option

It's not as bad as my tone might be coming off as, but still

[trim breach]

idk, if it patches after mine, mine would be ignored

in which case i'd say it's a viable selection if my choice of limiting cooldowns bothers you

[teal flicker]

the description does mention it was mostly made because of butteryfixes

[hollow fable]

the cooldown doesn't bother me, it just thought it would be interesting to show here for those who wanted to get rid the cooldown

[trim breach]

that's funny

i was going to suggest that it'd be easy for someone to make a mod like this and release it if they wanted

but i suppose someone just took the intiative already

[brazen vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/di-goose-honk-honk-angry-honk-honk-gif-17648939470482040238

[jolly raven]

I don't think so, this is also for vanilla stuff

[trim breach]

i wouldn't call any of this petty

[trim breach]

this mod also removes the cooldown from items which have them in vanilla (clown horn is 0.2s, pajama man is 0.15s, airhorn is 2s, etc.)

it does exactly what it says on the tin

it will actually remove cooldowns from all interact triggers which i would worry could cause problems but maybe it is fine

it would let you spam stuff that's normally not spammable as well, like airhorn, toilet, etc.

if you dont like the cooldowns to begin with that's probably not an issue for you though

[thorn breach]

All interact triggers? I would be very worried lol

[trim breach]

yeah

Lol

they have a named list of items to disable use cooldowns on

which includes weed killer (even though it already has no cooldown) so i assume they just listed names and didn't actually have a unity project dumped to verify with

i think without a unity dump or unity explorer trying to filter the interacttriggers would be way more difficult

so it was probably just done the quick and easy way

[thorn breach]

Yeah

[trim breach]

since it's still functional

[trim breach]

anyways the solution was right under my nose the whole time

i just goofed when i was testing it so it didn't seem to actually work

1a3 confirmed i was just doing it wrong the first time

anyways I think I'll be able to handle this

[trim breach]

or maybe not

this is a lot more difficult than i anticipated it being apparently

it looks like HDRP apparently might just not support post processing on more than one camera???

i am getting mixed answers on that

but if i disable the morecompany camera then the cosmetics button stops working

if i change the render camera (so the morecompany UI is on the same camera as the title screen UI) it fucks up the layering and makes some of the buttons impossible to click

lol well now i am on to something but it is fucking up the rendering on the playermodel

that bright patch in the corner of the logo is the scavenger's arm

you can spin it around

[mighty night]

wait, what are you trying to do?

something to do with the VHS filter?

[paper garden]

recent BF update re-added the film grain from older versions and

[mighty night]

hmm

post processing definitely does work on multiple cameras in my experience

not sure how that MoreCompany camera is set up though

[trim breach]

i dont know it is weird

it's rooted in something to do with canvas/camera which is really annoying to investigate with just unityexplorer because it's so laggy

and the asset bundle source for the morecompany UI has not been posted anywhere so getting it into the actual unity editor would be a headache

i'm not too happy about giving up on this but i think for now i'm going to table it for another update

so i don't delay this current one any longer

@meager estuary

works with "gor" as well, for short

[mighty night]

we could look at it in dev voice sometime if you want, I've screwed with cameras enough that I'm confident I'll have some clue what's going on but it's hard to say without lookin at it

[trim breach]

the update is live

it has everything i wanted it to include except for the more company stuff

i will try to figure it out in the future

[trim breach]

perhaps so, if i poke around a bit deeper and still can't figure things i might reach out

[eternal lantern]

Canon company building ❤️

[trim breach]

lol

i just found out there is a huge bug with challenge moons in vanilla

challenge moons are apparently guaranteed to be infestations every week

because the code that normally resets the previous infestation and runs a random chance to start a new one based on the seed

gets skipped on challenge moons

and by default, the game has an infestation for the enemy at index 0 on each moon

which is ghost girl for all the paid moons + adamance

and snare fleas for all the free moons + embrion

meaning that it is not a coincidence the girl has been spawning at 8 on basically every premium moon

and it is equalizing the spawn rates for all enemies on every moon

the "increased enemy index" modifier just does not work at all because it's ignored when there's an infestation

so most of the moon's unique spawn weights are just not observable

i dont even know what to do about fixing this

because it's objectively wrong, but it completely changes the challenge moon experience

it's more close to correct, but further from the actual experience other players will have

and also if you're using any sort of content mods or balance mods, you're already altering the challenge moon experience anyway

just seems like a lost cause but it's a very bothersome one at that

[livid plover]

wouldn't guaranteed infestations be better for a challenge moon to make it harder than usual?

[trim breach]

i guess, but challenge moons already add +1 to the spawns and have their own "increased enemy index" attribute

so you might get an assurance with increased nutcracker chance, or vow with increased coilhead chance, etc.

because of this infestation bug that never occurs

because both assurance and vow would be guaranteed snare flea infestations

you'd get 4 snare fleas by the start of the day and then every enemy would have equal spawn chance for the rest of it

[livid plover]

oh so its blocking unique challenge spawns

[trim breach]

yeah the infestation behavior blocks some unique challenge moon behavior

so im almost certain it's unintended

[paper garden]

Think having Emblem enabled is allowing the film grain stuff to work with MoreCompany cosmetic stuff lol

[trim breach]

that is interesting

[paper garden]

shurg

[trim breach]

public void SetVolumeLayerMaskOnAllCameras(int layerMask)
{
    //IL_001e: Unknown result type (might be due to invalid IL or missing references)
    //IL_0023: Unknown result type (might be due to invalid IL or missing references)
    Camera[] array = Object.FindObjectsOfType<Camera>();
    for (int i = 0; i < array.Length; i++)
    {
        HDAdditionalCameraData component = ((Component)array[i]).GetComponent<HDAdditionalCameraData>();
        if ((Object)(object)component != (Object)null)
        {
            component.volumeLayerMask = LayerMask.op_Implicit(layerMask);
        }
    }
}

looks like it could be this here

[hollow fable]

Same here, i have NoMoreCompanyLogo and Emblem, the film grain is working with MoreCompany

some cosmetics also have bloom lol

[radiant nymph]

If you wanna get rid of NoMoreCompanyLogo obligatory mention to my mod c; https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/Lunxara/Lunxaras_Menu_Theme/

I guess the only benefit NoMoreCompanyLogo would give in the case of using my mod is removing MC from the version text

Kinda surprised Emblem doesn't have direct support to just remove that

[paper garden]

u can u just make %VERSION% not %VERSION% lol

[radiant nymph]

🤔

[radiant nymph]

I can't see the difference here

[paper garden]

yeah i worded it weirdly

[radiant nymph]

Wouldn't that mean always having to manually update the game version text?

XD

Pain

[paper garden]

this game does not update enough for it to be a pain

[radiant nymph]

Well not atm it doesn't

But as soon as Zeekerss gets back into it I feel like we'll be back to updates in quick succession again

[paper garden]

the only time it'd be a pain is when he does the rapid hotfix updates

otherwise major updates were like, 1-2+ months lol

[trim breach]

lol I did check

the morecompany camera's volume layer mask is just wrong yeah

it is being overridden by emblem more or less by chance it seems

i guess i could put out a quick hotfix that just copies the vanilla layermask over to the more company camera

[hollow fable]

I'm fine with NoMoreCompanyLogo, what annoys me is that MoreCompany makes the menu red

I wanted it to be orange like the original, tried using Emblem but wasn't able to tweak it correctly?

[ruby dagger]

Is your mod making this glowing orb load from the ceiling to here

I put it on the ceiling via the bunkbed so it could be a cool lil ceiling light

But every time I reload, it gets relocated to here

[livid plover]

Don't know if it's this mod but game probably thinks it's outside the bounds of the ship and puts it back in a position where it's easily accessible

[ruby dagger]

Might be CruiserAdditions doing that since it has a feature just for that

or maybe it is just how vanilla LC is now

[livid plover]

Wouldn't cruiseradditions only affect things inside the cruiser when you go into space

[ruby dagger]

Shrug

[meager estuary]

Maybe Matty’s fixes?

If your pack has that

[ruby dagger]

Na

I don have it

[trim breach]

i dont change anything about how items save/load

[ruby dagger]

Ya it was just a little too oob

[trim breach]

@radiant nymph i wanted to delay this next update to add another new feature

but my work on mods has been really slow lately and i havent gotten it off the ground at all today

and this desync issue is pretty major

so i think i'll just table it for now

i am about to push the hotfix

[radiant nymph]

ty It's good you've been updating your stuff at a slower pace, you mentioned you were gonna start updating stuff slower so you don't reach burnout

[radiant nymph]

I know Skitts will be happy lol

[trim breach]

ok, it's on thunderstore now

[radiant nymph]

😄

[brazen vapor]

which issue was this ?

like the stuff being invis for client with higher ping ?

[trim breach]

there is a possibility it could have also fixed that but im not sure

skitts or lunxara could explain better

[trail creek]

wait so should i use hotbarplus's fixes or this one

[trim breach]

you don't need to enable hotbarplus' setting if you use this mod

[woven tartan]

Def had this issue with my Australian buddies

[trim breach]

but they will not conflict

they just do the same thing as each other

[woven tartan]

I hope this is why and it’s fixed now

[trim breach]

it was just a guess

i think it's very unlikely

but it should reduce item desync which is the cause of that bug

so it's possible

[brazen vapor]

i wont know what is fixed if i dont know whats the problem to begin with

heres lunx

[radiant nymph]

Flip's explanation does it best tbh

Basically a client could pick up an item before the host registered it if it was placed in storage cupboards leading to desyncs and their items forcefully dropping and becoming shadow realmed. This mostly affected clients on high ping

This also affected the Cruiser btw

[trim breach]

the items forcefully dropping part would be lobby control autodropping items

but yeah

[radiant nymph]

It wasn't Lobby Control though cus it didn't get logged in local chat

It was a vanilla thing

Flip even posted a video

[trim breach]

oh i thought you meant the thing where inventory overflow dumps the entire inventory

[radiant nymph]

Nope

[trim breach]

nvm

[radiant nymph]

Skitt's perspective of it happening

Flip reproing it in vanilla

[trim breach]

oh

wow that is really strange

i didn't think vanilla had any code capable of dumping items like that

[radiant nymph]

Yeah that was the cupboard bug

it would break clients

lol

Cus they would pick up stuff before the host registered it

[trim breach]

yeah

[radiant nymph]

The thing is we now have mods at this point that fixed that issue in all cases except the cupboard til now lmao

Idk how the cupboard was an oversight for so long

I think cus only people with high ping really made it show up

otherwise it went unnoticed

[trim breach]

it's deeply nestled in player code

and apparently as simple as a single boolean flag not being set where it likely was intended to be

[radiant nymph]

Yeah and Skitts was only reproing it constantly cus she's irish, so she is on a fairly high ping in my lobbies

[trim breach]

only reason i've fixed it is because flip found it and handed me the solution on a silver platter

lol

[radiant nymph]

Ye

He did a great job at finding the solution to it

[mellow scaffold]

yeah, and i'm glad my clip ended up helping figuring out how to fix it as well

[hollow fable]

Am i crazy or the player drifts backwards if it's crouched and holding a Maneater?

[thorn breach]

sounds about right

[trim breach]

not a super great way to fix this unfortunately

because those values are defined on the EnemyType and not the enemy's prefab

in vanilla you could mostly account for this by just setting the values in the enemytype depending on if the current maneater is a baby or not, but you won't be able to have multiple maneaters in modded games at different stages of growth without them fighting

[thorn breach]

technically you could transpile the value out but i dont really see this as a "problem" anyway

all it would be is just checking if (component.mainScript is CaveDweller caveDweller) and just checking if its a baby or adult before letting vanilla do its thing

(i say this but i also dont know how to do transpilers so )

[smoky current]

god i hate transpilers

[trim breach]

hello deabie

[mighty night]

transpilers are epic and cool

[hollow fable]

could you fix typing 'upgrades' on the terminal and getting only the teleporter with the wrong price

idk why 'decor' and 'upgrades' are so strange and specific

[hollow fable]

[No upgrades available] 🙏?

[jade ravine]

Asked over in Mirage, figure I'll ask here as well:

Is it better to keep "Fix masks" from Buttery Fixes enabled or disabled with Mirage?

[trim breach]

what do you mean? buttery fixes no longer has settings to fix masks, i migrated everything to mask fixes

are you talking about the setting from EnemySoundFixes?

[jade ravine]

Oh, apologies, yeah, that's my bad

[trim breach]

no you're fine, just needed to confirm

anyways it is your choice

[jade ravine]

What happens with either option?

[trim breach]

in vanilla, the masks laugh/cry on random intervals

but zeekerss made a typo in the code that caused the timer to be the incorrect length

basically, if a mask laughs 30 minutes after you started the game, the timer before it rolls the next random chance to laugh has 30 minutes added to it

so then when that occurs, it adds an hour to the timer before it laughs again

and it just keeps increasing from there

fixing that bug makes masks laugh on more consistent intervals (it's like a 5% chance every 2ish minutes IIRC?)

[jade ravine]

Ah, so that explains why, for the first time in forever, I've been hearing the masks making noises since having it turned on

[trim breach]

anyways it makes the mask items a lot noisier (they can alert dogs on to the ship, which i think is fun, but maybe that is an unpopular opinion)

but the real reason i made it configurable is because it makes the enemies considerably noisier

i dont know the exact numbers but they have much higher chance and shorter timers to make noise

it's like 20% every 30ish seconds instead or something

so if you use a mod like mirage to make them mimic players

they are far more likely to give themselves away by making a random laugh/cry sound

that might not be an issue if you have masks disabled on mirage's end

and i did notify qwbarch a long time ago (maybe close to a year at this point) about how they could disable the masks making noise on mirage's end, if he wanted to do so as a feature

but im not sure if anything ever came of that

i never checked after that conversation

anyways tl;dr: the fix masks setting makes them way noisier (as zeekerss intended them to be) so leave the setting off if you dont like that (whether because of the gameplay, or because it conflicts with voice mimicking)

[jade ravine]

Ah, I never have masks on for Mirage, but i was under the impression it was just disabling the texture, not necessarily the logic tied to it.

I haven't noticed the masked making those noises though so far.

But thank you, that's actually a lot of very good information, I appreciate it

[trim breach]

the laughing/crying is attached to the mask gameobject

so if mirage is disabling the gameobject completely, then yeah, they shouldn't make any noises

if mirage is only disabling the renderer (basically making it invisible), then it would still be possible

[trim breach]

but the masks laugh/cry like... a lot. so if you havent heard it at all, it's prob this

[jade ravine]

I'd wager a guess that you're right. Cool, thank you for your time, that's really helpful

[ruby jay]

I pretty sure this is just a vanilla bug but - player movement isn't disabled when "Enable chat" & "Submit chat" keybinds have the same key bound to them

[ruby dagger]

Do you mind making this setting not account for juvenile maneaters as well?

It's obnoxious having maneaters cry every time you jump/land, but eyeless dogs need this buff, so I'd wish to keep this setting on if I could

[trim breach]

that setting doesn't make noise unless you are outside and dogs exist on the surface

maneaters hear players landing on the ground in vanilla

[ruby dagger]

@opal cairn I lied? Idk

Need to fact check this

Okay yeah I lied nvm

[opal cairn]

no, you misunderstood what i said

maneaters dont hear you land on the ground unless you fall from high enough

dogs are the same way

you can jump with maneaters just fine

[ruby dagger]

Seems like this setting affects them in that case then Idk

[opal cairn]

...?????

[trim breach]

it does not make noise unless you are outside and dogs exist on the surface

[trim breach]

this is also correct

[trim breach]

as is this

[trim breach]

i have just finished a new optional feature

it is pretty cool

it has been merged in with one of the previous optional features

for reasons that will hopefully make sense

i will probably release it sorta soon, it might be a little more prone to breaking than my other changes but since it can be toggled off (and is off by default) i dont think it's a huge problem

and i can patch it up if anybody manages to replicate issues with it

[ruby jay]

[trim breach]

v1.13.0

• Added RestoreArtificeAmbience and DisableLODFade
• Expanded ScanOnShip into ScanImprovements
  • Butlers now display a scrap icon on the radar before they are killed
  • Terminal scan now includes live butlers in the loot counts
  • Fixed incorrect price ranges being displayed for certain special items

the butler radar stuff might be a little problematic, so you should be able to disable the setting to avoid any bugs that may crop up

but in my testing it works ok

[livid plover]

what's the issue that needs RestoreArtificeAmbience

[trim breach]

artifice has a unique night-time ambience track

it's supposed to crossfade from the daytime ambience to the nighttime ambience as it gets closer to midnight

but the night time ambience track does not ever begin playing, in spite of this crossfade effect

so instead the surface just becomes silent

[livid plover]

i never noticed that

that's cool

[trim breach]

neither did i

i just thought the track was really subtle in-game

but it's a cool effect and it's not used anywhere else

[livid plover]

i was usually distracted with the old birds being loud af

[trim breach]

so i wanted to restore it

[livid plover]

i'll give it a try, wonder what it sounds like

[trim breach]

i did make it optional because it does change the feel of artifice

in my opinion, for the better, but that might not be a universal opinion

[livid plover]

might as well open up artifice to see how it sounds when it becomes night

with and without the change

[eternal lantern]

Always thought it was intentional that it goes silent. Brings in more tension.

Sort of like when wildlife goes quiet when a predator is around

[trim breach]

i am not sure if it is intentional or not

artifice has its own night time ambience track that is not used anywhere else

[eternal lantern]

If there was a dedicated night time track I would assume so but maybe Zeekerss changed his mind

[trim breach]

but it starts to become audible around 1 PM so i wonder if zeekerss removed it because he thought it was too overwhelmingly apparent

too early in the day

[smoky current]

it was probably from when the map was still snowy tbh

[trim breach]

it's audible for the entire day technically if you're listening for it, but I think 1 PM is where you start to feel the shift, i mean

[trim breach]

it is possible

i like it a lot with the blizzard

[smoky current]

i like it in general

its super creepy sounding

[trim breach]

it's an unsettling sound and the blizzard helps to drown it out so it's not so overwhelming so early in the day

i thought about adding it to artifice blizzard instead

and having an option to only enable it during the blizzards

but i figured there was no need to overcomplicate it

and it is at least debatably a "bug fix"

[trim breach]

also yeah

i do as well but i worry the early prevalence might make it sort of unpopular

at least until there's been a bit of an adjustment period

i expected it to be a drop-in improvement that didn't require a config but i added one sort of last minute because i was worried about that

[livid plover]

Would it be possible to adjust the crossfade itself so it becomes apparent later?

[trim breach]

not really

at least not sort of destructively

zeekerss set it up in a really weird way

normally the moons have this script that handles "high and low" audio

high audio is usually wind, low audio is usually sort of a rumble

it is used on dine, for example, which is why the blizzard is only audible from the ground near the ship

and it fades out as you go down the map towards the entrances

anyways he added a toggle to that script to make it work on a day/night mode instead

which seems to only be used by artifice

that day/night mode instead plays the high audio at 100% volume at 6 AM

and low audio at 100% volume by 12 AM

with everything in between interpolated linearly

so by 12 PM, daytime ambience is already at ~66% volume and night time at ~33%

patching that script will affect any other moons that use the same setup

and also gets into subjectivity with manually adjusting the timeframe

[livid plover]

Makes sense

[trim breach]

the problem with artifice and the reason i had to fix it

is that the night time audio track just does not play at all

so the volume fades like it should, but even at 100% volume there is no clip playing

zeekerss either forgot or purposefully disabled the flag to make the track play immediately on landing

it is up for debate which

[livid plover]

What dopa said earlier makes the most sense to me

[trim breach]

speaking of dopadream

[livid plover]

That it was intended while artifice was a tundra map, but he turned it off when it became a marsh instead

[trim breach]

i forgot to credit her for the crossfade lod thing

but she brought it to my attention and i made a setting to disable it because the double popin irks me

[ruby dagger]

Yipee

Love the Artifice addition

[livid plover]

Btw the track is Night Time Silence Bass right?

[trim breach]

yes

[livid plover]

It's so creepy sounding

[trim breach]

it is

i love the atmosphere of artifice

[livid plover]

It definitely helps with the liminal feeling

Like you're not supposed to be there

And the specific mention of active machinery is another part of that

Something I just noticed tonight while testing on artifice was that the doors on the first 2 hangars start closed when the map is loaded, and then open as the ship is landing (unless that's a map improvements thing)

[trim breach]

no that is vanilla

[livid plover]

Which gave me a feeling that the facility is inviting you in

Like it knows you would be here

The only way I could see it being more like that would be if they stay closed and open as you walk past the fence

[smoky current]

what does disablelodfade do

from a technical standpoint

[trim breach]

just turns off the cross fade on all LOD groups in the scene

i was going to make it only apply to vanilla moons when the setting was on

but i refactored it a bit to make it affect interiors as well

[trim breach]

and moving it to another function just made me want to drop that and leave it for manual toggling

[smoky current]

do i still have to do it on my end

[trim breach]

no

you can do it on your end if you want

[smoky current]

cool

i do not lol

too many meshes

[trim breach]

but if people use my mod and have the setting on it will apply to yours

[trim breach]

type t:lodgroup in the hierarchy

[smoky current]

oh right i forgot u can do that

[trim breach]

select all -> fade mode: none

[smoky current]

still idrc

[trim breach]

you will have to do it for each individual scene

but also

i left the door open for it to be disabled

in case, in the distant future, you figure out a way to make the actual fade work

it is outside the scope of something i care to fix but i think it would be a valuable fix if someone were to figure it out

i am basically just putting a band-aid over it to minimize the pop in

[smoky current]

i thought abt it a bit more and i feel like the fading would clash with the art atyle

[trim breach]

because having overlapping LODs makes the transitions even more obvious since it happens twice when spanning the same distance

[smoky current]

so i dont really have interest in remaking the vanilla lit shader

or whatever

[trim breach]

i see

i think cross fade would look good on foliage

sort of just feels like wind in leaves

natural motion

it looks hella weird in boulders though

[eternal lantern]

It’s probably an unintentional byproduct from the way it’s coded. Mineshaft elevator starts at the bottom and then goes to the top at the start of the day but nobody would ever see it in vanilla.

It’s unsettling to know that they move either way, feels creepy.

[ruby jay]

it would be cool if the elevator was timed so that you just barely see it reaching the top right as you enter on rare occasions

[eternal lantern]

Would be difficult to time it but would be a neat feature

Unfortunately getting the timing right isn’t worth it for a “neat feature”

Maybe if the elevator has a chance to spawn at the bottom of the mine so you need to call it up. Would make it feel less consistent

[ruby jay]

could just have it be delayed to rise up to the top up until 8:30 or 9:00

[eternal lantern]

You can get inside the building a lot faster than that on most maps

[ruby jay]

without a jetpack I can get into the building on march by 8:17 usually so.
I don't remember if I can get into any other buildings any faster on the other maps (without the jetpack)

[eternal lantern]

You can get into the fire exit on assurance before the time even appears

That’s not the same though

Also march can’t be a mineshaft in vanilla

Offense is a likely option, you can drop down off the side directly to main using a jetpack and get there before the time even appears

Which offense has a high chance for a mineshaft

[trim breach]

maybe i am misremembering

but i believe you can see the elevator arrive at the top on any map if you have a jetpack

[thorn breach]

You ever seen a bug where'd you'd interact with the terminal, and it'd zoom you in then zoom you out but u can still type its just really unintelligible words lol

Had this in my dev pack happen randomly recently

Just mostly curious about what could cause it since I've been doing potentially more destructive-ish things recently

[livid plover]

It could maybe work as a proximity trigger from the main entrance prefab, but yea jetpacks would get there way before it was ready

[meager estuary]

Butlers having a scrap icon on them makes a lot of sense yet I never thought about it

Nice parity change with Nutcrackers

Artifice ambience is interesting too, I will have to hear it for myself later

[hollow fable]

There's a mod called LCLocalFixes that does this tweak, i'm curious if this audio source is the same as ButteryFixes restores with the new "RestoreArtificeAmbience"

[trim breach]

no

that alters the blizzard ambience

and it actually conflicts with artifice blizzard if i read it correctly

[hollow fable]

interesting

[meager estuary]

Gosh how have I not asked this yet…

Could there be a change to the CC where turning off the headlights also turns off the cab light (the one on the back of the windshield)? On moons with a Titan-like hues in the air the refraction of that blasted cab light blinds the driver

I am fine with any way to turn it off, tying it to the headlights just seems like an obvious implementation

[livid plover]

Melanie's rv cruiser has a config for that

Just turns the cab light off

[meager estuary]

I don’t want an rv cruiser though 😭

[trim breach]

personally i am not familiar with this issue and it's also not really a fix for anything

this probably fits the scope of cruiser improved or cruiser additions more

[meager estuary]

Fair

I have posted this there too

[ruby dagger]

Why doesn't restore film grain have AlsoRadar now

I just want it for the menu and radar, that's it

or is it under a new name

[radiant nymph]

It was changed

[ruby dagger]

What name?

None?

[radiant nymph]

Full should be menus and radar

[trim breach]

AlsoRadar is now Full

Full was misleading because it didn't apply to the radar

Full is now NotRadar

the behavior did not change but i made the names make more sense

[ruby dagger]

I see

[trim breach]

when i originally released it

full was full

and there was no option for the radar

because the radar didnt have the film grain in v9

i guess zeekerss thought it looked ugly

i did too at first but it grew on me and i decided to make it an option after the fact

but then it just suffered from bad confusing naming because of mini scope creep

anyways

if there's one thing im going to do

it's make a confusing config

and sooner or later i will probably do some dumb shit like migrate the setting to chameleon in v1.15.6

[ruby dagger]

There doesn't seem to be scanlines on the radar anymore

[trim breach]

are you using sponge

[ruby dagger]

yea

[trim breach]

did you disable map camera quality overrides

[ruby dagger]

no

[trim breach]

you need to do that or post processing effects wont work

[ruby dagger]

Oki

Thamnk

[ruby dagger]

Would you be interested in fixing the issue with Vow/Adamance's bridge collapsing

Items that were on the collapse bridge do not fall, and instead float midair

This is a pretty frequent issue, too

[opal cairn]

it might be better to ask sciencebird this, as they seem very good at applying parenting to objects

[ruby dagger]

@green valve Demonic ping

[opal cairn]

but maybe just me

[paper garden]

They're both probably capable of looking into doing something lol

[ruby dagger]

I miss my fat maneater png...

[opal cairn]

as far as i can tell the solution is simply applying parenting to the bridge parts

and sciencebird is very good at parenting objects from what i can tell

[ruby dagger]

Nvm found this fat piece of shit

[paper garden]

is he ugly on purpose

[ruby dagger]

We'd have to ask him

[trim breach]

probably shouldnt be fixed by parenting

[green valve]

might take a look sometime, but sounds like it could be an issue with item falling logic rather than parenting

[trim breach]

i would need to check the layering of the bridge colliders but it might be possible to just make the items fall again

[trim breach]

yea

all that said this is an extremely minor issue

[ruby dagger]

It is not 😭

[trim breach]

who is dropping items on the bridge and then destroying it

accidentally or purposefully

[ruby dagger]

It is genuinely intrusive on gameplay when it happens, especially during eclipses when forest keepers are running rampant. This is definitely something to be looking at

[trim breach]

there is a worse version of this bug where dropping items from an extremely high point causes the downward raycast to fail

and then items just dont fall at all

which is how you can get permanently floating jetpacks if you fly into the sky and then drop it

i would be a little more prone to fix that because it can at least reasonably happen on accident

[trim breach]

if there are giants out you probably should not be leaving items sitting on the fragile bridges

i dont know why people are leaving items on the bridges in general

i guess maybe on adamance if you need to shed your weight and jump off the side

but then you're probably going to go back and pick your stuff up again anyway

[ruby dagger]

Yeah, when forest keeper suddenly aggravates upon you, you kind of have to

[trim breach]

you also have the option to jump off with your items

or throw them off the side

this is still completely avoidable

adamance's bridge is bugged in more than one way because it wasn't part of the map's original design

[ruby dagger]

It's pretty bad to call this a minor issue, but I guess I'm not convincing you otherwise

[trim breach]

and it seems zeekerss forgot to add the offmeshlinks that drop forest giants when the bridge collapses

because stuff stays on top of the bridge when it collapses on adamance

[opal cairn]

im not sure if conciously always thinking of a rather infrequent occurance to do something like that is much better than it just being fixed
but i do agree this rarely happens

[trim breach]

but they correctly fall into the pit on vow

[opal cairn]

its not really a necessity to fix, which is another reason i proposed sciencebird over stan for this

[ruby dagger]

They do not

[opal cairn]

since sciencebirds mod is more open to little things like that

[ruby dagger]

The reason I'm asking about this since it just happened on Vow

[trim breach]

not talking about items

talking about enemies

[opal cairn]

zeekerss did forget to do this yeah

when a giant breaks the bridge on adamance, it stays floating for a bit and pathfinds downwards

[ruby dagger]

This goes for all entities pretty sure

I think

[opal cairn]

giants are the only monster that can break the bridge

but if another one happens to be on it

then yes theyll do the same thing

[ruby dagger]

I know

[trim breach]

i could be mistaken but im like 99% sure it does not ever work on adamance

on admance giants just always walk across the bridge

[opal cairn]

i will say

in relation

[trim breach]

the reason there are "coyote frames" for the giants is because zeekerss addressed this issue by adding a bunch of offmeshlinks along the bridge

[opal cairn]

i think its weird if a giant breaks it, the sound effect of it collapsing doesnt play

[trim breach]

which are disabled until it collapses

once the bridge collapses, the offmeshlinks are enabled, and when a giant paths on to it, it causes them to relocate downward

so if they break the bridge while standing still they will continue floating in the air

until they walk onto one of the links

it looks like the offmeshlinks do still exist on adamance, but my guess is that they don't work correctly because zeekerss did not place the destination close enough to the navmesh

i will have to look into that

[hollow fable]

How hard would it be to make items with 0lb float on water?

Just a cool feature I had in mind

[jolly raven]

dynamically doing so would be a pain, if you mean having it follow the waves created by the shader

[hollow fable]

i mean

same behavior as the body on the water