Loadstone

[white creek]

is this normal?

I don't think I have ever seen it but I just noticed for like several months I didnt have Async on

[crisp relic]

desync isn't normal as far as I'm aware
it seems to be an issue with some mod or set of mods, as it doesn't happen if you only use Loadstone, as well as a select few mods that I test against when developing new updates

[white creek]

Weird...

[crisp relic]

people like Lunxara have been using Loadstone basically since it came out without having major desync issues, and other people seem to have it weekly or more unless they change the config

[thick quiver]

How many is many? 😅

[crisp relic]

I wouldn't mess with object pooling
it's not fully functional

[thick quiver]

isee ty for letting me know 😌

[livid kelp]

Tbh I'm surprised you still keep it around

Since you haven't worked on it in ages

[crisp relic]

yeaah, I might get rid of it

[livid kelp]

Btw are you planning to push the changes you made to Stable Loadstone anytime soon?

[crisp relic]

yeah, I'm just giving it a couple days to see if I get any issue reports
it can take a bit for issues to be reported sometimes, so I'm waiting as a precaution
I've had some major bugs not be reported in the beta for days, which then got reported within a few hours of the update going live

[ashen crane]

I could change to unstable when playing on saturday

We only play on weekends usually and last Saturday we played repo

[livid kelp]

I uninstalled REPO

I completely lost interest in the game

lol

[ashen crane]

I only play it for my friends when they want to

It's just kinda boring

One of them gifted me the game cuz I didn't wanna spend money on it, so I might as well play it with them

[hollow ibex]

If we were to compare 5 months old LC to current REPO, they'd be equally boring.

[lavish ginkgo]

Small suggestion
A real neat lil feature would be if during loading, you could add some strings in a config to create loading menu tips

Or just, idk, memey stuff if people wanted

like above/below the seed in a smaller font size, centered
That would be awesome

[burnt hull]

There's a mod for that already

[lavish ginkgo]

Is there?

[burnt hull]

I think its just called loadingtips

[lavish ginkgo]

is it customisable

[burnt hull]

By Enova I believe

[lavish ginkgo]

or just premade

[burnt hull]

Yes it is

It generates a txt file you can fill

[lavish ginkgo]

nice, i will give it a look

[lavish ginkgo]

It mostly works nicely, though, lengthy tips get cutoff
So unless the dev is active and adds a fix, i'd proly still like something like that in Loadstone

[burnt hull]

I just stick with the idea that loading tips should be short, concise, and no more than 1 sentence

It helps a lot

also do this

[lavish ginkgo]

doesn't /s work? i just read from their thread

[lavish ginkgo]

Some might need to be a bit longer to deliver the info, especially since only 1 tip shows during landing anyways, its not like it flicks between multiple
load times also vary between packs. In my case, on my pc, its about 10s-15s so 2 sentences is fine
Same reason loading music works

[crisp relic]

hmmm
I wonder if loadingtips could have something similar to the music in Loadstone to where it fades out as the ship lands. I have that in Loadstone so you can still enjoy the music, even if the map loads quickly

[lavish ginkgo]

That'd be cool

Another suggestion i saw posted was to have the tips show when you're loading into a lobby

[crisp relic]

also, I think I might want to add Loadstone compat with the mod in some way. It looks like the hints are entirely activated by checking when the loading text object gets enabled, but Loadstone disables that functionality depending on your settings

hmmmm
or maybe that's a good thing? Since the hints should have the dimmed background, and only that one mode of Loadstone still has the dimmed background?

[lavish ginkgo]

Yeah, the hints rely on the dim background, which made me think them persisting like the loading music doesn't exactly work

[livid kelp]

@crisp relic That's a massive size decrease with the new stable update what did you axe? lol

Like you shaved off a whole 3mb XD

[lavish ginkgo]

It might be the removal of the loading music in favour of just using the vanilla mineshaft elevator

[livid kelp]

Oh possible

[crisp relic]

Yeah
I removed it a bit ago, but I forgot to remove the file again when compiling the stable version

[river sinew]

Was it ever figured out why Wesley's art museum interior's lights go green with this installed? I'm not talking about them flickering and green when the breaker is off, but them being a solid green when they should be on and look like a normal light.

[crisp relic]

no, it hasn't

[river sinew]

What an odd issue. Any other known interiors I should blacklist?

[balmy prawn]

I just had problems with facility all modded interiors i played is working fine.

[crisp relic]

No other interiors to blacklist that've been reported

[proper carbon]

Wait hm

@crisp relic wild fucking shot but newest peak has an unsolved bug where the map suddenly turns green super rarely

Curious if they are somehow related

It like probably isn’t but weird niche lighting bug that makes unity light green feels maybe kinda plausibly related?

Eg https://www.reddit.com/r/PeakGame/s/mZ7UcCoXR6

[crisp relic]

I'd guess it's probably coincidence, but maybe it could be related

[leaden hearth]

wesleys museum interior specifically has green lights, but theyre only supposed to be on when the power is out and not always

its just a coincidence

[lavish ginkgo]

And on top of that, i've used both for the longest time and never had the green lights issue

So its likely a specific setting or 3rd mod causing it

[livid kelp]

@crisp relic You might wanna check it Loadstone might need an update for v73, there's been an issue where the game is inconsistently crashing when landing the ship that @marble scaffold and I think is cus of Loadstone

[crisp relic]

I see, I'll have a look

Could you send a mod pack and log files?

Also, is it a hard unity crash, or something different?

[marble scaffold]

hard unity crash

possibly related to pathfindinglib

[marble scaffold]

i have a different profile and a couple different crash logs

each one looks different but most of them crash shortly after loadstone logs, some of them cite pathfindinglib in the stack trace, some of them have dungen functions in the crash, etc.

AinaVT-LethalConfig-1.4.6
BepInEx-BepInExPack-5.4.2100
ButteryStancakes-BarberFixes-1.3.0
ButteryStancakes-ButteRyBalance-0.3.0
ButteryStancakes-ButteryFixes-1.15.3
ButteryStancakes-Chameleon-2.2.0
ButteryStancakes-EnemySoundFixes-1.8.1
ButteryStancakes-JetpackFixes-1.5.4
ButteryStancakes-MaskFixes-1.5.2
ButteryStancakes-MeleeFixes-1.4.1
ButteryStancakes-WeedKillerFixes-1.1.2
Dev1A3-LethalFixes-1.2.8
DiFFoZ-HarmonyXTranspilerFix-1.1.0
DiggC-CruiserImproved-1.5.2
Fandovec03-SpiderPositionFix-1.5.3
Hardy-LCMaxSoundsFix-1.2.0
JacobG5-ReverbTriggerFix-0.3.0
LethalCompanyModding-VertexLibrary-1.1.0
Lordfirespeed-OdinSerializer-2024.2.2700
Rune580-LethalCompany_InputUtils-0.7.10
Zaggy1024-PathfindingLagFix-2.2.5
Zaggy1024-PathfindingLib-2.4.0
mattymatty-Matty_Fixes-1.1.35
xilophor-LethalNetworkAPI-3.3.2

these are the overlapping mods in our profiles, so something here is very likely culpable
(lunx uses loadstone, i use loadstone unstable beta)

i havent gotten any crashes since disabling loadstone but the crashes were never 100% reliable in the first place, so that could totally be coincidence

[crisp relic]

Fair enough
It's possible that one of the deeper patches to dungen's coroutines is causing issues

[livid kelp]

Yeah there were a lot of changes to StartofRound and stuff, might be worth taking a look at 1a3's diff and seeing if any transpilers or anything need changed

[marble scaffold]

the big thing is that zeekerss updated unity from 2022.3.9f1 to 2022.3.62f2

because of that CVE

[livid kelp]

That too

[marble scaffold]

but with it, he also updated NfGO (which changed a bunch of compiled functions, even though he didn't actually write any new code) and HDRP

[livid kelp]

I have noticed that without Loadstone the game doesn't feel nearly as bad when landing as before

So definitely some optimizations were done, still not as good as with Loadstone

But it is better

[marble scaffold]

pathfindinglib had to be manually updated with new offsets for native functions, im not sure if loadstone is digging in that deep though

[livid kelp]

https://1a3.uk/games/lethal-company/diffs/?version=v73_1&tab=1 StartOfRound, StartMatchLever, and EntranceTeleport changes are prolly what apply most to loadstone

[halcyon sable]

It's probably on pathfinding lag fix side error, not load stone

[livid kelp]

I did send the logs if you wanna check it

You should be able to see what it is with the crash.dmp file prob

[crisp relic]

Did dungen get an update? Most of what Loadstone changed is in dungen

[plain jay]

Doesn't this mod need a recompile since the netcode patcher updated?

[crisp relic]

Loadstone doesn't do any networking

Though I have considered it so only the host has to calculate the dungeon, and also to help prevent desync

[livid kelp]

Yeah that would be a good idea, iirc LLL does this already

[crisp relic]

it looks like it's crashing in Loadstone's navmesh patches
you can disable the navmesh optimization separately until I can work out a fix

[livid kelp]

@alpine silo Seems like you guys found it's the same thing

So it's AsyncNavmesh doing it?

[crisp relic]

yup

[livid kelp]

@marble scaffold

[crisp relic]

I think I see what's happening
it looks to me like the navmesh data is somehow invalid, so when Unity tries to process it, it ends up crashing because Unity doesn't own that memory anymore
the question then becomes, why does the navmesh data not exist?

[livid kelp]

Hmmmm, that is interesting cus it's also not consistent

[marble scaffold]

i was wondering earlier today if asyncnavmesh might be related, since it's running into navmesh errors with pathfindinglib

[livid kelp]

Maybe it's a conflict between the 2 mods rn

[alpine silo]

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion? and have you reproed the issue?

[marble scaffold]

but tbh i only use loadstone on my solo testing profile because of all the multiplayer issues, and so i would probably rather just keep it off than test asyncnavmesh

[alpine silo]

I mentioned this in its thread but PathfindingLib has patches to hook navmesh modification in order to prevent it crashing the game in async pathfinding jobs

it's possible I'm corrupting memory somehow

I haven't had a chance to look at that yet though

[livid kelp]

Yeah it's possible you missed something with the v73 update that was fine on v72

[crisp relic]

Loadstone modifies how the navmesh generates to use NavMeshBuil;der.UpdateNavMeshDataAsync, rather than using the standard NavMeshSurface update function. Is it possible that that could be causing issues if it takes too long to generate?

that would explain why it's inconsistent at least

[alpine silo]

not unless I screwed something up

[crisp relic]

hmmm

[alpine silo]

I did account for async navmesh stuff

I believe it joins to the main thread after it generates though

[crisp relic]

for now I'll throw in a few extra prints for debugging and upload a new version so we can hopefully narrow down the issue, since the log output isn't giving any line numbers

[livid kelp]

Maybe this will help, Buttery's profile was much smaller

so it might show more stuff

[crisp relic]

here's a new version with some extra prints for debugging @livid kelp. The only other difference is that this is built against v73.1 instead of v72.2

here's the Unstable Beta version with the same changes

if you get a crash with either of those, we should be able to tell exactly which function Unity is having issues with

[marble scaffold]

i will give it a shot

if only i knew some way to reproduce. basically just have to land the ship and roll the dice if it's anything like it's been the past couple days

[crisp relic]

that's fine
if you do get a crash, this is the relevant commit: https://github.com/AdalynBlack/Loadstone/commit/bb348bb4b6704025632b33b3d9d3109cb104ac82

[marble scaffold]

ok, just got one

lol

[crisp relic]

also, I realize now reading the Unity documentation again that I can just yield return asyncOperation instead of the while loop I'm doing, but I'll fix that later lol

[crisp relic]

oh, nice

[marble scaffold]

it's crashing during the asyncoperation, it appears

after Waiting for UpdateNavMeshDataAsync to finish... before UpdateNavMeshDataAsync finished, refreshing surface data

[crisp relic]

huh

wait that's a different crash entirely than the one Lunxara sent earlier

this crash is in PathbindingLib's patches

[alpine silo]

yeah that's why I suspect I goofed something

[crisp relic]

in the one Lunxara sent, there was no mention of PathfindingLib in the crash

it seems like something probably changed in Unity's pathfinding logic that's causing some strange behaviour

[livid kelp]

Any way to repro the crash?

[crisp relic]

is it possible these pointer offsets changed?

and that that change could be causing it to not lock during the async navmesh operations?

or maybe these offsets could have changed?

[livid kelp]

Maybe, @alpine silo Did you notice any of these methods being changed while working on PathfindingLib?

[marble scaffold]

i just landed the ship a dozen times until it crashed

still no steps

[crisp relic]

does it crash consistently if you land on the same seed with the same weather?

[marble scaffold]

that's an interesting question actually

i have a save routed to dine (been testing v73 stuff) and i just load that and land it

so it's dine with standard weather

i could try forcing seeds with imperium to see what happens

or does loadstone have a config fo rthat

i forget

[crisp relic]

I'd give that a try to see if it's specific seeds crashing, or at least if some crash more often than others

[crisp relic]

no, I just use Imperium if I need seed consistency

[marble scaffold]

ok cool

[crisp relic]

I usually like to test on the first 5 seeds or so to verify the Loadstone dungeon is the same as the Vanilla dungeon across all vanilla dungeon flows

[marble scaffold]

good guess on it being related to seeds, but it doesn't seem to be the magic bullet

[crisp relic]

I thought that might be the case

[marble scaffold]

i landed 5 times on seed 70251852 (the same one from the crash log above) and got 2 crashes in a row, but then 3 loaded just fine

[crisp relic]

my guess is that it's a race condition between PathfindingLib and Loadstone. Some seeds might crash more often than others, but I'm guessing it'd be system dependent. If it is a race condition though, I wonder if reducing the number of cores the game can use might change the behaviour, or if changing the process priority could have any effect

[livid kelp]

CullFactory can also allow seed consistency

[crisp relic]

I imagine it'd still be inconsistent though, just different inconsistency

[alpine silo]

it's definitely possible, that's one thing I didn't check yet

I don't think the issue is a lack of a lock, though, it's gonna lock in NavMeshManager::Update() anyway

there's multiple layers of protection

mainly to ensure I'm not locking/unlocking multiple times in a frame

I gotta write up a transpiler for RuntimeIcons and then I can do some PathfindingLib testing if I'm done in time

[livid kelp]

The seed method did work

[alpine silo]

oh that's good if it's reproducible

[livid kelp]

Same seed as my crash log had

[alpine silo]

if that's NavMeshManager::Update(), that should be up to date, and also if it was incorrect it would likely not cause a crash in any meaningful location

more likely it would corrupt a random method and cause that to crash every time it's called

[livid kelp]

Hope this helps Adi, I had the build you sent me imported

[crisp relic]

it's the Apply function but yeah, it's unlikely
I think the other offsets are more likely to cause this kind of crash

[crisp relic]

it looks like this crash happened when LC ran its own navmesh generation for the outside terrain. The other crashes were both for the inside dungeon

[livid kelp]

Interesting

LMAO

[crisp relic]

this crash is also a PathfindingLib stacktrace

[livid kelp]

So yeah it's prolly stemming from PathfindingLib

@alpine silo

[alpine silo]

no need to ping me lol

like I said, I'll look at it in a little bit

[crisp relic]

could you try disabling async navmesh and landing a handful of times? If this seed is crashing consistently for you, we might be able to verify for sure that it's related to async navmesh

[livid kelp]

Sorry didn't know if you were still monitoring the thread since you're working on runtime icons

XD

[alpine silo]

it's not really new information, I'm 90% sure it's an issue with something I'm doing in carving

[crisp relic]

fair enough

[livid kelp]

Testing rq with AsyncNavmesh off, but if it's PathfindingLib it should repro either way

[alpine silo]

the fact it seems to happen more on dine makes me wonder if it's caused by some carving obstacle outside

[livid kelp]

I'm having this on a modded moon in my test profile

Kiri

[crisp relic]

I've seen two crashes in the dungeon navmesh and one in the outside navmesh

[livid kelp]

LMAO it crashed even quicker with it off

LOOOOOOLLLL

Right after lever pull

[crisp relic]

interesting

[livid kelp]

At this point I wonder

will it crash without loadstone as a whole

[crisp relic]

this crash was in ScienceBirdTweaks? Interesting

[livid kelp]

I think it crashed before PathfindingLib could log it's stuff tbh

Cus I originally had this crash without SBT enabled

With loadstone off it landed

Lol

Weird

[crisp relic]

it looks like its crashing while trying to find a game object?

[livid kelp]

Oh well this is interesting

I got it stuck on a seed

[crisp relic]

(also, I'm seeing some noteworthy performance issues in SBT. It should be negligible, but it shouldn't be running Find() multiple times a frame)

[livid kelp]

@small pilot

I somehow exploded LLL, dunno if this is paco's fault or some interior being fucky though but I did inform him

[crisp relic]

like I said, it should be negligible, but on lower end systems it might become noticeable

[livid kelp]

Yeah without loadstone it never crashes

Interesting

[alpine silo]

the unpredictable nature of the stack traces makes me think it is a write out of bounds

I suspect it is pretty likely in the carving code, so if I can repro, I'll try disabling that patch and see if it helps

once I finish with RuntimeIcons

(which I appear to have just done)

[crisp relic]

it's an oob memory read
EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION_READ according to the dump

[livid kelp]

I had AsyncNavmesh off on the 2nd crash

and it crashed twice as quick

[alpine silo]

right, but that is probably a secondary to the cause

[livid kelp]

Possible yeah

[crisp relic]

I'd guess it just crashed in the dungeon instead of the exterior like it did last time

[alpine silo]

the segfault is probably happening because some memory that is used as a pointer got overwritten if I had to guess

[livid kelp]

Oh hey yeah PathfindingLib

Crash without Loadstone

Loadstone causing the crashes officially debunked

[crisp relic]

oh, it's not running Find multiple times per frame all the time, it's just running every frame until it finds them, so unless it never finds what it's looking for, it should be fine

[livid kelp]

LOL I crashed landing on Experimentation

AHAHAHA

GG

[alpine silo]

sucks that I didn't have time to test it thoroughly

this sudden update was not convenient lol

[small pilot]

What's the best way to do performance testing and diagnosis by the way? I've wanted to do more of that, but I only know of Unity's built-in frame buffer thing which is a major pain to set up

[crisp relic]

the best way is always going to be the Unity profiler, but yeah it's annoying to set up
other than that, BepInEx has a generic profiler mod you can add, but it's very laggy and just outputs a raw CSV file, or you can collect your own profiling information

I tend use a combination of the Unity profiler and custom profiling info. I use the Unity profiler for my own research and testing, and I have custom profiling set up for key parts of Loadstone to help debug weird performance issues that some users have reported in the past

[livid kelp]

I just crash when trying to land on Experimentation

LMAO

What the fuck

😂

[small pilot]

good to know, I have 1 million soft dependencies so loading it in a Unity project is always a pain 🥲

[crisp relic]

yeaah

here's the github where BepInEx has the generic profiler if you want to give it a try: https://github.com/BepInEx/BepInEx.Debug

[livid kelp]

Got a succesful land on Experimentation by turning off CullFactory, prolly rng but yay

[alpine silo]

ok I'm trying for repro now, do we have consistent steps on a profile that doesn't have 100+ mods?

[alpine silo]

you don't have to load anything in the editor to profile the game

you can use a blank project

probably doesn't even necessarily need the same version

[small pilot]

I've only used the Unity profiler while running a project in the editor with nomnom's patcher, and just adding mods to the plugins folder. I assume there's an easier way?

[alpine silo]

like I said, just use a blank project

or just don't add mod assemblies

it doesn't need them, neither for normal profile nor deep profile

[small pilot]

but if I'm running the game via the editor I'd need to have a project with everything installed right? so can you use the profiler while running the game outside the editor?

[alpine silo]

oh

yes

sorry lol I hadn't even considered you might be doing that

[small pilot]

yeah I figured there was a way to do it I'm just not familiar with how because I've only seen the profiler in editor contexts

[alpine silo]

https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1259442214921175082

[marble scaffold]

i will try to replicate it on a "fairly minimal" profile

[alpine silo]

results in the editor will be very skewed so you absolutely want to do this

tyty

[small pilot]

ohh, very nice, exactly what I was looking for thanks 👍

[alpine silo]

I tried a few things I suspected might trigger it to no dice

[marble scaffold]

if lunx is getting crashes on experimentation, it might be possible to:

1. install just imperium + loadstone + pathfindinglagfix (+dependencies)
2. create a new save
3. land the ship (maybe set a specific seed first?)
4. rinse/repeat until something happens

theoretically you might even be able to get it with just pathfindinglib

[alpine silo]

yeah ideally it's with only PathfindingLib to remove all other variables

if we get repro I suspect a set seed will trigger it, so CullFactory might be useful too, and I don't expect that to cause any instability

[marble scaffold]

at least earlier i was getting inconsistent repro for set seed

[alpine silo]

oh huh

[marble scaffold]

the same seed 5 times crashed twice in a row and then was fine 3 times in a row

[alpine silo]

race condition yippeee

[marble scaffold]

so idk

[livid kelp]

I had the crashes without loadstone

[marble scaffold]

oh i guess i missed that

well, in that case...

you aren't using imperium either, yes? so it ought to be possible with just pathfindinglib and a dream

[livid kelp]

Prolly yeah

or PathfindingLib + CullFactory cus I did stop the crashing by turning off CullFactory but that may have been rng

[marble scaffold]

just to double check, you think it'll replicate even without pathfindinglagfix?

i assume pathfindinglib is still doing stuff behind the scenes, even if nothing is using it, but just want to check

[alpine silo]

not sure, to be honest

gave it a good few tries on dine without, gonna try with now

[marble scaffold]

every time ive been trying for this bug, i've done a full restart after landing for the first time

im gonna go check on my test profile if i can get the crash on a second or third landing

because it will make trying for the crash way faster if i can just exit to title and try again

[alpine silo]

yee

so nothing with PathfindingLagFix just yet either, and I also tested my script to lock and unlock all the doors in the level repeatedly, and nothing broke there either

so carving may not be the issue after all (somehow)

[marble scaffold]

... or i can just crash on first land 4 times in a row...

[marble scaffold]

literally have not changed anything since doing this

and im not setting a seed either

[alpine silo]

classic

[marble scaffold]

wow

only took me 6 tries!

ok yep that's a crash on third landing

i guess i'll keep trying my dine save

if i can get a dine repro with just pathfindinglib, maybe i will try it on the other planets after

[alpine silo]

yeah main thing I'm hoping for is a seed to plug into CullFactory

but I still have no repro on my end :(

[marble scaffold]

im starting to worry this might be the case

like, i dont know if any of the 30 other mods im using actually cause the issue, but just having 30 more mods to process is possibly changing conditions enough for the actual underlying issue to happen..

[alpine silo]

maybe

I would think it's unlikely, since PathfindingLib doesn't do any threading on its own

but if Unity itself has some new threading then uh oh

[marble scaffold]

ok, im not getting it either after a dozen tries with just lib... i guess i will start adding stuff and going down the rabbit hole then

[plain jay]

@crisp relic Is loadstone working in v73

[crisp relic]

it's working perfectly in v73 as far as I'm aware

[marble scaffold]

beware using it with pathfindinglib

it appears pathfindinglib has a potential crash bug that loadstone makes easier to replicate (although i don't think loadstone itself has any problems)

loadstone itself seems to work fine, and the crash itself is pretty inconsistent, but to be safe i'd be careful mixing the two

[rain plinth]

I know there used to be issues with desync between clients having different interiors, are there still issues with this? And are there any known incompats?

[livid kelp]

@crisp relic Got a bug to report

If you have Loadstone and a ship mod that regens navmesh such as BiggerShip the game crashes when landing on any of Starlancer's Moons

I would assume this isn't really your fault since it's only his moons but could be worth looking into regardless to see what might be going on

[crisp relic]

My best guess is that my mod is in the middle of generating a new navmesh, then the other mod generates it's navmesh synchronously, allowing it to start and end it's navmesh generation while Loadstone is generating the same navmesh, which potentially corrupts the navmesh data. I might be able to make a workaround for the issue, though it would effectively disable async navmesh in Loadstone whenever a mod re-generates the navmesh

[crisp relic]

There aren't any known desync issues in the latest version, no

For incompatibilities, there were some issues with it making a bug in pathfindinglib more common, though I would assume the root cause of that issue has been fixed by now. Other than that, there's the issue Lunxara just mentioned

[river sinew]

Isn't there something weird with one of Wesley's interior's lighting going green? Thought you needed to blacklist one

Yeah, blacklisting MuseumInteriorFlow unless that's not still needed

[livid kelp]

That is still needed yeah

@crisp relic When you fix the navmesh issue you probably should just internally blacklist that interior

[crisp relic]

I'll try to look into that issue one more time, and I'll just add it as a default to the blacklist if I can't figure it out

[livid kelp]

Btw is AsyncNavmesh still needed? I turned it off so Starlancer's moons wouldn't crash and I don't notice much difference in load times with it off when landing

[crisp relic]

AsyncNavmesh is a fairly minor improvement. It saves a few tenths of a second and smooths out two specific major lag spikes during level loads

Perhaps I should label different settings based on their expected performance and smoothness impact

[livid kelp]

Ahhhh fair, I noticed when I was testing with it off and had navmesh regen on for Solace for example I didn't notice much lag spikes lol but it could depend based on moon and interior

[crisp relic]

yeah, it'll depend on how complex the moon's navmesh colliders are
the main purpose of AsyncNavmesh is to reduce lag spikes, but it should also speed up the calculation
unless the regular navmesh calculation also spawns new threads but just waits for them to complete, I haven't actually checked if that's the case or not

[balmy prawn]

Looks like dungeon optimization still causes facility desync

[livid kelp]

I’ve never had this so I have high doubt it’s Loadstone

[balmy prawn]

which mods do you have?

[crisp relic]

I have good news
Loadstone is officially being deprecated for the next release of Lethal Company. The new beta just released, and every single feature Loadstone provides is now natively implemented in v80, including some extra features that I never got around to adding. Loading into a level in v80 in vanilla should be smoother than any version of Loadstone ever was

I'll keep the mod up on thunderstore for anyone who continues to play old versions of the game, but it will not be receiving an update for v80

[latent linden]

First mod shot to dead

Jk, i know it's practixally implemented in vanilla lol

[crisp relic]

I've marked the Unstable Beta as deprecated, and archived the github repository. I'll leave the standard version of the mod undeprecated until v80 gets a non-beta release

[crisp relic]

ok, small correction, I did find one change from Loadstone that isn't in v80, but honestly I don't blame Zeekers for not implementing it
the AsyncNavmesh setting in Loadstone still isn't implemented in v80
it fixes a couple small hitches during level gen, but it's really a feature missing from Unity's navmesh system, it's not something a game dev should have to manually implement like I did in Loadstone

[marble scaffold]

zeekerss was running into navmesh generation issues before v80 launched

so it's possible he tried and disabled it later

unless you're saying you wrote custom code for it and it's not a dungen feature

in which case NVM

[crisp relic]

I had to do reflection shenanigans to make NavMeshSurface.BuildNavMesh not be a blocking task

there should just be a NavMeshSurface.BuildNavMeshAsync or something similar that handles that use case, but no such method exists. You have to implement it yourself, and the data you need is stored in private variables

[wanton lance]

Did that include the loading music?
Or for my mod would i need to now implement my own sound cue?

[crisp relic]

fair point
loading music wasn't added either as far as I know

[prime wren]

Are we sure Loadstone isn't still better than the vanilla implementation? It could be due to not having any other performance mods, but I swear loading into a moon in v81 takes more than twice the time Loadstone does

[turbid cargo]

nah from testing

vanilla is better

for the mostpart

only one feature vanilla didnt take bc

it was kinda risky

I could imagine lacking other perf mods

could be slowing ya down

[prime wren]

Yeah probably so

It was honestly surprising how much, even with the performance updates I was running ultra-performance and medium textures and getting worse FPS than before

[turbid cargo]

at least for me

vanilla loadstone

was way more seemless

or at least more often seemless

only a few rounds had the stutter loadstone had

[crisp relic]

Vanilla forces the equivalent of Loadstone's Dungeon Target Frametime all the way down to 1ms, which is probably why it takes a bit longer, and also a big reason why it's smoother
I was targeting 20ms, and I also tweaked the logic of how that 20ms is measured to make sure lower end systems were still spending enough time building the interior so it didn't take a very long time for the interior to build

DunGen also implemented object pooling logic, which will help significantly for Facility interiors specifically. Zeekers uses a system called ProBuilder, which should be baked before building a release for the game, but every tile in Facility isn't baked, meaning it has to recalculate the mesh every time a new tile spawns. With object pooling though, it can re-use old tiles, which means that lag from ProBuilder now only really happens the first time you land at a facility interior, not every single time you load a facility interior

[crisp relic]

v80 has just gone to the stable branch on steam, so I have now deprecated the primary version of Loadstone as well. It's still usable and helpful on previous versions of the game, but no longer provides enough functionality to warrant keeping it around in the new version. I might extract the async navmesh logic into its own separate mod eventually, but it would have a relatively minimal impact on stutter and overall performance in most cases

[plain jay]

So loadstone is not needed?

[weary garden]

This is the best way a mod can die
Thank you Adi 🫡

[crisp relic]

Yup, Loadstone is no longer necessary

[proper carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/sharkboy-and-lavagirl-tobor-im-free-freedom-i-am-free-gif-26186361

adi be like

[crisp relic]

True
I'm finay free from figuring out that one really rare desync bug :3

[river sinew]

I wonder if Wesley's Art Gallery lights are going to be funky in vanilla 🤔

or, not "vanilla" but you know what I mean

[oblique oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/a-man-holding-a-chain-in-his-hands-stantwt-memes-stan-twitter-memes-stantwt-gif-stan-twitter-gif-gif-8838664947412207190

[lethal pebble]

- Loadstone is no longer needed and has been deprecated, do NOT use loadstone

[modern elbow]

Are you still considering separating the async navmesh module into its own mod? I would love to list it as a dependency for the moon I'm working on since it drastically reduces the loading time

[covert phoenix]

Could you make a mod that just adds the loading music? I think that'd be cool.
-# ||I'm assuming that the loading music wasn't added to vanilla but I don't know I haven't played v80 yet.||

[wanton lance]

I have a mod that replaces the loadstone loading music depending on the weather
My intention with loadstone being added to vanilla was to make my own mod to just add a sound cue when you load, and then replace that

If Adi makes a separate thing for it though then i'd just use that as well

[covert phoenix]

If you mean you just want to add a singular sound cue that plays after you load, I think you could just replace the door opening sound effect in that instance. For me though, I'd want the looping loading music to fill the silence of loading a particularly hefty moon.

[wanton lance]

I tried that just yesterday, and unfortunately the sound is sped up and short, so the music becomes sped up and cuts out
I need to add my own sound cue

[wanton lance]

Do you mind if i yoink your RoundManagerMusicPatches to just make a standalone loading music mod?
Tryna think if there is any way i would change it or implement it differently, and i cant think of anything

[balmy prawn]

It will be cool if we could change that setting that in vanilla is set to 1ms

[wanton lance]

yeah, in my pack i cranked it up to increase the load time a bit but to also make it smoother

[wanton lance]

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/ZetaArcade/LoadingMusic/
I double checked that it has a MIT licence, so it should be fine
Idk how active Adi is in this space still
Its literally just to play the loading music again anyways

[covert phoenix]

Awesome!

[crisp relic]

feel free

[covert phoenix]

idk if I should report this in this thread but when using a loaforcsSoundAPI soundpack to replace the loading music of this mod, specifically one that picks a random sound, the random sound only changes whenever you start the server, rather than the sound changing every time the loading music begins playing (which was how it worked with Loadstone).

[covert phoenix]

Actually, on further testing, it seems that once a loading song plays, it can never change again. This affects both randomness and different conditions, so even your ZetasLoadingMusic mod won't work properly.

I'm not sure what causes this but it also affects the ShipLanding sound from vanilla (plays while a moon is loading) so it could be a loadorcsSoundAPI issue maybe but idk

[wanton lance]

thats really weird
that definitely doesnt happen on my end, it does change
Though, my mod also doesnt have randomness. It changes depending on the weather, which isn't random
Its probably due to soundAPI issues with deterministic randomness in the sound settings and whatnot when you make a soundpack

[covert phoenix]

Very strange. The only evidence I have beyond what's happening is that soundAPI is having some issue (and by issue I mean one error during startup) with lethal level loader which I'll post about on that thread later. Deterministic randomness shouldn't be the problem because other random sounds seem to work fine.

And yeah even non-random sounds, like your soundpack, won't switch songs. Like if I land on a clear moon, and then travel and land on an eclipse moon, it'll still play the clear moon's music.

[covert phoenix]

I've made a completely new profile with only your mod and it's dependencies. I went to Offense which was stormy and it played the stormy music. Then I went back up and I went to March which was clear, but it played the stormy music again. Both times I've got this error though.

[wanton lance]

Yeah, must be a v80 sound API thing
I would say report it in the soundAPI thread