[v81] Half Life Black Mesa Moon + Interior

[idle cargo]

i routed to the company on day 1 (i like going there for my shipments)

and

i get this

results in being stuck on seed screen

[sacred quiver]

Any chance you could post the full logs? This doesn't really provide any context

[idle cargo]

... gonna need to reboot the game again XD

[sacred quiver]

Is this happening every time you land? *At the company

[uneven stream]

I've seen people play this update and they could get to the company just fine

[idle cargo]

hmm

[north thorn]

I wonder if you maybe have a mod that would spawn scrap at the company for some reason?

[idle cargo]

dont think so?

[north thorn]

I'm gonna check if it calls this regardless, but supposedly others haven't had issues so I wonder

huh, I can reproduce this

[idle cargo]

i also know people dont typically go to the company first

[north thorn]

will get a patch out for this momentarily

very strange if others haven't encountered this

[idle cargo]

my output (if it helps)

[north thorn]

@uneven stream played quite a few quotas a couple days ago and had no issues, so it's very curious

[idle cargo]

update came out today, did it not?

[north thorn]

it was a test build

[idle cargo]

ah

[north thorn]

out of curiosity, were you in LAN?

[idle cargo]

nop

[north thorn]

lmao so apparently this only happens if you land early

what a weird function call

[idle cargo]

so hold off on company first?

[north thorn]

yeah, you can just get to 0 days and then it appears to be okay

I'll have an update out before long though

just had to check the fix was right

[idle cargo]

appreciated

i just dont like wasting time on a moon waiting for the drop ship so i head to the company early to avoid that

[north thorn]

yeah, that totally makes sense, I've never really done that but it's certainly more efficient

[uneven stream]

Thank you for finding such a weird bug lmao

[idle cargo]

i do what i does

[uneven stream]

🫡

What a strange bug

[north thorn]

uploading 2.0.1 now, it'll take a couple minutes and then another half hour for the thunderstore cache to update lol

[idle cargo]

i appreciate the hotfix.

[pastel magnet]

Lol what was the problem

[north thorn]

the game apparently calls through to spawn networked objects on the company only before quota runs out

referring to SpawnSyncedObject specifically

we never encountered an issue with it in testing because we always went to company after quota lol

[pastel magnet]

And how'd you guys break dat

[north thorn]

how'd we break what?

the code just assumed that if interior networked objects spawned, there was an interior

it never worked in that scenario regardless

the point of it was just to assign value to scrap that is spawned outside the loot pool

[pastel magnet]

I'm assuming since a fix was made in this mod, some code conflicted with how vanilla operated, was just wondering what the code did to begin with lol

[north thorn]

ah

it was a hook that was at the top of the stack trace

[vocal nova]

Really good mod. Just wow.
One quick question though: Is there a way to disable cameras in the main room? They are insane at dropping my framerate to 20 whenever near them.

[north thorn]

I could definitely see us adding a button or a config for that, but I'd also like to take another look at an optimization that had failed before, which I may be able to improve on now

out of curiosity, what fps do you normally get?

especially the average on Black Mesa's interior, but I'm also curious about other interiors

I didn't have a low end gaming machine to evaluate performance on unfortunately

[uneven stream]

Maybe I can hook you up with remote access to one of my crappy machines

[idle cargo]

finally got to play the interior. after some optimization, this interior will be perfection.
one little request tho. once the crystal is pulled, would it be possible to disarm those tripwire traps? or have a config to shut em off? or have a way to make it like 99 dmg and not a OHKO?

that aside, that patch last night did the trick. thanks for gettin it out there

[north thorn]

I'll have to playtest it properly sometime to fully form my opinion, but it's definitely not meant to be easy to take out the crystal, and tripmines are very visible to allow saving stamina for a jump when necessary

if people think it's sufficiently difficult, it may be worth us increasing the value, especially after the barnacle is finished

[idle cargo]

oh god

but i get it

as long as a low tripwire doesnt somehow spawn near a vent door

havent seen yet, but still

[north thorn]

they're all manually placed, so feel free to complain if there's an unavoidable one

[idle cargo]

ah good

[sacred quiver]

All I'll say is be careful inside large vents 🤭

[idle cargo]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-downey-jr-omg-really-whatever-bye-gif-13634171

[idle cargo]

alrighty, found this https://i.gyazo.com/f038a98628705d2c2e7393f17cf87254.jpg

im guessing either there's supposed to be a kill trigger before or at the bottom, or the ladder is supposed to be climbable. neither are the case it seems

[uneven stream]

Oh yeah the very very bottom should have a kill trigger lmao

@sacred quiver

We forgor DamageZone / kill box at bottom of Lab Elevator tile

[sacred quiver]

I'll fix that lol

[idle cargo]

still got out via Jetpack

[runic pike]

200 HP

also whats that mod to keep the clock while inside

[idle cargo]

think that comes in GeneralImprovements

[runic pike]

Ah neat

[uneven stream]

Big brain lmao

[static pewter]

Thanks for creating this mod, I was really happy when I saw it and downloaded it fast!

[uneven stream]

We are glad you like it! Lots of time has gone into it so far and lots more to come 😄

[vernal raptor]

I encountered this issue 🤔

[uneven stream]

Can you send your mod list over?

And any logs?

[vernal raptor]

Sure! How do I find the logs?

here are the mods 01927bfc-e5ec-c262-c3a7-55ad151465bf

Don't know if this is helpful but I still have the console open and can see that there were plenty of errors during the generation of that day.

[uneven stream]

@sacred quiver @north thorn for when you bois wake

First I've seen issues with seeing through walls

[vernal raptor]

Love the mod btw! I'm a huge Half-life fan so this is just awesome for me.

[stray kelp]

are they on room layer?

[uneven stream]

yeah there are no issues with that

Everything is on the right layers, I think this may be a mod conflict possibly

[uneven stream]

some of these errors are to do with nav mesh where I think there may be stray bones I missed during export or weird geometry that the nav mesh cannot bake onto, but shouldn't be causing what is shown in the screenshots

[stray kelp]

those are because of read/write is not toggled on for the prefabs

[uneven stream]

I have watched so many hours of people play and have played a ton myself and never seen this see through walls bugs lmao

[pastel magnet]

We'd need the whole log

[uneven stream]

Ah I thought I got all of them, but maybe I missed a few pieces of some of the meshes for those lol

but shouldn't be causing whatever the heck this is at least haha

[pastel magnet]

A few? Bitch there's like 100 meshes you missed

[uneven stream]

This seems weird af

[uneven stream]

lmao

100 meshes out of 1000000000 meshes

finding them will be fun

[pastel magnet]

It gives their name in the log

[uneven stream]

which is nice lol

[pastel magnet]

Just spend 10 hours loading unity search bar

[uneven stream]

T.T

[uneven stream]

yeah a lot of them seem to be vertex data that is not allowing nav mesh

maybe soem stray edges I missed during cleanup

[stray kelp]

im guessing that causes the seethru walls (?)

[uneven stream]

nah it shouldn't

I have been to those tiles in those shots many times

[pastel magnet]

It would not

[uneven stream]

and seen those errors a lot

never causes anything like those pics

that is some wall hax

[pastel magnet]

Ignore the navmesh errors

[uneven stream]

I always do

[pastel magnet]

Don't worry, I can tell

[uneven stream]

hahaha

Zaggy won't let me keep getting away with it

[pastel magnet]

Clearly he already has too many times

Not even vanilla is this bad lol

[uneven stream]

There used to be waaaaaay more lmao

[pastel magnet]

Well tbf vanilla also doesn't have 100+ tiles

[uneven stream]

yeah I am assuming it is due to me being half asleep at some points prepping tiles in blender clearing faces and edges of unused/unneeded geo and missing some strays so it becomes angry about that vertex data maybe

[pastel magnet]

Some bad meshes with stray vertices I believe

[vernal raptor]

Haven't looked into logs before so not sure if this is the right file or not. But I hope this can help.

[stray kelp]

LogOutput.log is what you are looking for

[vernal raptor]

Ah ok, that file was from the 5th of this month sadly. Not sure what happened there.

[north thorn]

yeah I haven't been paying attention to that issue since @uneven stream already had plenty of navmesh that needs to be removed first

will try and figure out how to open this sqlite file, I've never tried to decipher logs from one of those before

text logs are definitely preferable imo

odd if it only wrote to the database file, unless the config is set to ignore the text log

[umbral heron]

whenever i play with this interior and centralconfig's dungen safeguards enabled, it takes a really long time to load the moon, and then sometimes doesnt even generate the interior and defaults to facility. on most moons it takes max 5 seconds to finish loading, but any moon i have black mesa set to spawn on, it takes upwards of 20 seconds to generate. so does this interior have trouble loading? or should i just turn off centralconfig's dungen safeguards?

[idle cargo]

does that without CC as well. interior just has LOTS of different tiles to select from and mechanics to load up. without question the most ambitious solo interior rn

my solution is just to wait it out until optimization becomes the key focus for this project

[umbral heron]

i suppose it's to be expected with this many tiles

i'll try increasing the number of tries CC gives it to generate and see if that works

[north thorn]

I see in this file that you generated Black Mesa three times, do you know which one would have had this issue occur?

[vernal raptor]

Pretty sure it was the second one.

[north thorn]

gotcha, I'll try to check that one out then

hopefully this is reproducible

[vernal raptor]

Thanks, good luck. 🙏

[north thorn]

looks like @uneven stream may have just screwed up that wall in Blender lol

it'll be fixed in the next release, but that'll probably be a while unfortunately

[pastel magnet]

Always blame him

[north thorn]

always

he likes to flip his normals

[stray kelp]

oh lmao

yeah been there, done that

[uneven stream]

[manic copper]

Is there any way to disable the cameras surveillance and/or the walkie cameras? it's making the entrance of the interior laggy

A friend of mine on laptop barely make it to 30 FPS only around the entrance mostly by looking at the camera area, the rest of the interior is fine and smooth

That being said, this interior is super great and enjoyable

[uneven stream]

We will probably make a way to disable them via config at some point yeah

[manic copper]

Alrighty, we'd appreciate it very much! thank you for giving it a thought

[uneven stream]

Absolutely 🙂

[old fiber]

Cull factory?

Or did u figure it out

I had the same issue when I had full factory and changed the tile bounds

[north thorn]

it was actually just the geometry

that was my first thought to be fair though lol

it definitely could have been some screwed up tile bounds, we have some work to do in that regard but thankfully I worked out how to not miscalculate the bounds of scaled tiles in CullFactory a while back

[old fiber]

oh alr I see

[uneven stream]

I am not sure why it looks fine in editor still

[north thorn]

"still"

didn't you fix it at some point in all your toolnodraw cleanup?

it does look fine, so I'm gonna assume that next release will fix it, we can always recheck before we push out the update

[uneven stream]

No it's always looked fine

Didn't do anything to it for the toolsnodraw cleanup

I strongly think something weird is going on

[white star]

Hey, so I was playing on the most recent version and a turret spawned in a wall and was able to target 'n shoot through it. The generation seed was 41040723

[sacred quiver]

Was this just Black Mesa and it's dependencies or a bunch of mods?

[white star]

We don't have use mods that alter interior generation

Or any custom enemies or traps or anything of the sort

[sacred quiver]

Profile code would still be nice, just in case

I'll be checking it out shortly

[white star]

Sure thing, one sec

019286ac-0ff3-dc12-e869-56e2c3e0fe00

I believe that code should match up with how we had it when we played. This was the room in question--where I'm looking there was a turret in the wall

[sacred quiver]

The red double door blocker in the next tile over was on the wrong layer🤦‍♂️ Hopefully this isn't a super common issue, it'll be a little bit til the project is in a state for a patch

Most tiles in the live version don't have single sided walls so this shouldn't happen that often, hopefully🤞

But it is fixed for the next update, thanks 🙂

[white star]

Happy to help! c:

[uneven stream]

@knotty grove Prepping the interior for DunGenPlus main paths in the near future 😄

So that it can be like the game where there are colored lines on the wall that lead to the right sections of the facility to guide players to which doorways go to which archetypes 😄

[umbral heron]

dungenplus can do that? thats cool

[uneven stream]

Not yet but hopefully soon

We are waiting for the ability to do that so that way we can set each door to be a specific archetype 😄

[umbral heron]

ah gotcha

feels like this is exactly the interior to take full advantage of dungenplus' features

[uneven stream]

If I had started out measuring all my tiles to make them a perfect size for looping then it would be even better since Plus does good with that too, but there is so much cool stuff you can do with having multiple main paths too 😄

[summer jasper]

Is there a version of the Black Mesa mod that has the standalone interior without the moon?

[sacred quiver]

No

[summer jasper]

Thank you for the answer.

[uneven stream]

Technically you could just download the mod and delete the moon asset bundle from the profile probably

Should work

[timid dagger]

Or you can go into the LethalLevelLoader config and disable the moon from ever loading entirely

[summer jasper]

Tried that. Enabled custom content configuration for the black Mesa moon and then set the "is registered in terminal" to false as LLL says that disables the moon. Despite this, it still shows up in game.

[celest pulsar]

If it helps I did both of these to disable moons
hide - true
registered - false

Hiding makes it not show up on the terminal to begin with

iirc Black Mesa moon is free so if you use mods like the MoonUnlocks one, you won't have to worry about it trying to make it free despite being disabled

[pastel magnet]

@uneven stream question

you dont also make isaac mods do you?

[uneven stream]

I do not haha

Great game tho

[pastel magnet]

im just casually watching my daily mattman video

and he's showing off a mod his communtiy made

[uneven stream]

The mod projects I work on is this and Cobblemon haha

[pastel magnet]

and hes like "thaqnks to headcrab"

and im like what

😂

[uneven stream]

ha! different person 😅

[pastel magnet]

yeah i was gonna say, 3 different games in modding lmao

[uneven stream]

I did mod some switch stuff

but that was not as intensive

[short pollen]

lol, that's another headcrab

[stray tartan]

hmm

I saw my friend get killed by a locker through this hole

[uneven stream]

Yeah that room had inverted normals for some reason, but will be fixed in the next update haha

[uneven stream]

WIP Elevator Lobby that will spawn off main to send you to the Office section of the interior

https://youtu.be/y2mIiVsiWl8?si=oEyrGKiGWHULaG2t

Lots of cleanup and some extra sound effects still to be done, but neat progress so far!

[compact niche]

Will scrap be capable of staying in that elevator when going up and down or will it clip through?

[uneven stream]

it should work exactly like the vanilla elevator

so scrap should stay on the floor

I don't think I would release this if it was that buggy in the end haha

[compact niche]

right! just curious! (Also I'm wondering if those elevators still work even when the xen crystal is pulled)

[uneven stream]

Yeah we will make it still workable (since in Half Life the elevators are on backup power even after the Resonance Cascade crystal event)

We are hoping to make it so that each doorway in the Main Entrance will lead to a specific tileset

this one for Office which is accessed via these elevators
1 for Lab
1 for Xen Quarantine
and later 1 for a new creepy sewer tileset that is in the works

[compact niche]

that seems awesome. My friend group is really into half life so seeing different areas of the map that are programmed to different tiles is gonna be amazing.

[pastel magnet]

are you using vanilla elevator script?

are there multiple elevators that can spawn?

is it only near entrance?

i need the answers to these so i can figure out whether i need to angrily change how my gal paths through elevators

because right now she can perfectly use fire exits, non navmesh, elevators, entrances, and everything, but custom interiors can fuck it all up

[uneven stream]

yeah just vanilla elevator script and only two floors

and only attached to Main entrance for now

And two elevators so far both in that room

one on each side of the room

we are using these as an entrance to the Office archetype basically so generation can run wild better by having it be above the Lab and Quarantine tile generation points

Blue line is where the Office elevator lobby will always spawn to take you up to that section

Green will be lab
Yellow will be Quarantine

Red will be the sewers which will be later

[pastel magnet]

can you try seeing if my gal will use your elevator just normally?

i think she will

currently in mineshaft she can independently call the elevator depending on if shes closer to bottom or top and where she needs to go, and if theres an elevator in the way, so im hoping its coded well enough to just work with your interior

[uneven stream]

Yeah once we get it working in a build and with DunGenPlus we will make sure to give it a test!

I love it when enemies can use the elevator haha I'm excited

[pastel magnet]

bet, just for reference this is how you would test it:
giving the gal 4 items sends her back to the ship where she checks for her last entrance used, whether theres an elevator in the way, etc.
she can also follow the player through the elevator if you're one level below her.
and yea

[uneven stream]

@north thorn @sacred quiver for our future reference when testing

[pastel magnet]

https://github.com/XuuXiaolan/CodeRebirth/blob/main/Plugin/src/Content/Unlockables/ShockwaveGalAI.cs#L483-L531 this is the script incase zaggy wants to like, call me bad at code

[idle cargo]

you're not bad at code. you're Xu .u.

[uneven stream]

Xuwu

[north thorn]

shall check it out later, thanks!

[celest pulsar]

Looking forward to the shenanigans in v1.6 Cobble

[uneven stream]

It's gonna be really cool 🙂

[umbral heron]

can't wait for masks to be playing the elevator game when a jester's cranking in the offices

also with the main entrance tile forcing specific tilesets for different areas will that improve dungeon generation? every time i try to load this interior right now, it fails to generate and defaults to facility, so i'd assume giving each subarea a smaller set of tiles to work with would help it with generation

[uneven stream]

Various things we are doing for the next update will help generation a lot, but it really shouldn't be defaulting to facility at all unless you are using another mod that modifies it's generation in different ways

I haven't had generation fail on black Mesa since version 1.0 and the only times I've seen it fail since then are when people try to modify configs for things about it 😅

[uneven stream]

And yes I'm very excited for this haha. We are also having a fire escape that the monsters can use to get to the bottom floor of the elevator area for those that can't natively use the elevator, that way monsters won't be stuck completely in the office wing and can move freely around the full facility

[umbral heron]

centralconfig has a setting enabled by default to turn off loadstone's async dungen to provide safeguards for black mesa specifically, i guess cus people were failing to generate it from the sheer number of tiles, and it generates facility instead if black mesa doesn't generate

i haven't tried loading it with those safeguards off but i can try it and see what happens

[uneven stream]

It works fine without CC or Loadstone so idk what those are changing

I don't use CC or Loadstone personally so maybe that's why I never noticed lol

They must be altering the generation somehow that fucks it up

But regardless the things we are doing for next update should help generation in general too so maybe whatever CC / loadstone are doing to potentially mess things up might be a non issue at that point

[umbral heron]

i just tested it again after disabling CC's safeguards, and it loaded fast and without replacing for facility

honestly i should've tried that earlier but better late than never i guess

[uneven stream]

Ey that's good news! Yeah I'm not sure what it is that those mods would be changing that would cause it to break but black Mesa definitely shouldn't be having generation issues when left to how it does things on it's own 😅

We can't guarantee that things won't go wonky when other things tweak it's generation but we can safely say it generates fine when it is left alone in its current version 🙂

[umbral heron]

i personally don't like using CC cus it's kinda invasive in it's changes, and the thing it mentioned about blocking value changes with weatherregistry in the newest version isn't helping the case for me. I only use it cus of the daytimespeed changing, cus for some reason it's the only mod that allows each planet to have a different time without causing the 2 day glitch. I use Loadstone cus it speeds up my loading times on my junky pc and generally makes life better in my opinion. I don't think Loadstone causes any generation issues with it so i'll probably keep it as is with the safeguards off since they don't seem to do what they're supposed to

[uneven stream]

Well I'm glad that the issue was found at least! And hopefully more things (like LLL please Batby ) will support being able to have specific moons have specific time of day lengths

I would definitely would have black Mesa set to be at 2x-2.5x the length of day

[umbral heron]

for sure

i'm kinda mad at myself for not trying that earlier cus this is legitimately an amazing interior, and my group's been playing without it for so long cus we thought it had gen issues

i would say this is the best interior for the game right now by sheer content

so i hope it didnt seem like i didnt wanna use it cus of other people saying it failed to gen

[uneven stream]

Haha nah you're fine, I'm just glad the issue was discovered 🙂

I'm glad you like our mod! Lots of more cool stuff is on the way too 😄

[north thorn]

they do this by default??

I sure hope that's not the default... people are going to blame Black Mesa for that one

I played with Loadstone+Black Mesa but no CentralConfig last weekend, and it generated fine like 3 times, not to mention the countless times I've generated the interior in testing

I've had it fail to generate like 1 in 100 times (with the default number of tries landing attempt, which amounts to 100 with our current setup), and we do have some tile cleanup that should eventually allow me to improve the tile bounds situation and make things even less likely to fail

[umbral heron]

central config does it by default yeah. Loadstone doesn't have anything in particular that it does differently for black mesa, but ig CC's dev was seeing complaints about it not generating and decided turning off async dungen was the solution? seeing as i got a perfectly fine generation after i turned the safeguards off, i don't think they work as intended

[north thorn]

yeah, I've been hearing about issues with it for weeks now I think, perhaps months

are the safeguards on by default?

[umbral heron]

yes

[north thorn]

ohhh boooyy

okay well I guess at some point I'm gonna have to audit that feature

if it doesn't get fixed in the meantime anyway, it'll be a long time before I can do that

it really sounds to me like it's changing some dungeon generation parameter that it shouldn't be changing, or changing it sooner than it should be

maybe the number of generation attempts it allows before giving up on a certain set of parameters is too low and/or doesn't respect the actual specified number of attempts

but in my personal opinion, the feature sounds like it should be a fallback for when you really want a dungeon to work on a particular moon and it won't work, so I feel like it should be whitelist-only

[umbral heron]

the safeguards are basically this, with N being tries in a loop that is configured in settings (default = 20):

1. turn off Loadstone's async dungen if black mesa interior is chosen for a moon
2. attempt to generate it with the vanilla system for N tries
3. if that doesn't work, run a cycle of N tries, starting at a higher size modifier and each time reducing the size modifier down to around 0.5 by the end of the cycle
4. repeat this for however many times specified by config
5. if none of this works, generate facility instead

[north thorn]

right, that sounds about like what I imagine it should work like

but on paper, that shouldn't cause Black Mesa any problems

except for the fact that the initial attempts isn't respecting the number of tries that is specified in the actual dungeon generator

(which we modify to accomodate the more difficult generation setup we currently have)

that's why I suspect it's doing something it shouldn't be

[umbral heron]

that's prob why it doesn't work as intended

[north thorn]

it shouldn't matter, unless the length size step is huge to where the number of tries near 1.0 is way too low

[umbral heron]

when i loaded black mesa with safeguards on, it always ended up adding 20-30 seconds to my loading time and then generating facility anyway, every time

[north thorn]

I'd have to check what sizes it's attempting to generate each set of attempts to determine if it makes any sense that it's failing like this

but it just seems incredibly suspicious to me

[pastel magnet]

I cant wait to see the next quality 5 item you make!

[umbral heron]

it starts each cycle around 2.3-2.5, and on the default of 20 tries, it ends up reducing size by around 0.1 each time

[north thorn]

and each stage it tries again 20 times, I assume?

[umbral heron]

yes

on default settings

[north thorn]

then it definitely shouldn't be failing

I've generated the interior on Experimentation many times with no trouble

[gleaming sleet]

Big fan of the moon/interior. Fantastic work.

Now we just need headcrabs.

[umbral heron]

if i had to guess it isn't giving the generation algorithm enough time to actually generate it before lowering the size

[north thorn]

that's on the wishlist, me being the codemonkey a lot of stuff falls on me so I haven't even been able to get back to the barnacle lmao

I definitely want to take a stab at that, it would be sick

[gleaming sleet]

I imagine it wouldn't be that hard.

Snare flea + masked logic.

[north thorn]

I mean, I'd make a whole new AI, it's quite different from the snare flea in all its behaviors except attachment

making a version of the masked though, that's definitely something I have in mind

[gleaming sleet]

Of course! But the framework is there.

At the very least, minor bits of coding to steal.

[pastel magnet]

There's not much to steal, lol

[north thorn]

that's definitely a possibility, but if it lowers it by .1 each cycle down to .5, then that's well over 100 attempts total, so it doesn't quite track for me

[pastel magnet]

From zeekerss code anyway

[north thorn]

yeah, not as far as the headcrab logic goes

when making a zombie, maybe, hopefully

[gleaming sleet]

Ah, I guess I'm speaking out of my ass. Assumptions made by an outside lens.

[north thorn]

it's gonna be a fair amount of physics work, I want it to feel a lot like the Source version of the headcrab

[pastel magnet]

How does the source headcrab look like

[north thorn]

(and same for the Barnacle)

[pastel magnet]

Or well, does its thing

[north thorn]

it yeets itself at your head

weee

[umbral heron]

yea i'm not one to speak on it, cus i don't know how long it usually takes dungeons to generate, but it does look like it cycles through the sizes pretty quickly so that's just my best guess

[north thorn]

I might want to do it more like the Alyx headcrab, but I'm not sure

HL1/2 headcrabs just do damage, which is..fine, I guess, but I think it's more fun to make players have to work together than just 1v1 a little guy on the floor

[gleaming sleet]

Honestly why I brought up the snare flea, since I imagined a headcrab in LC doing what it does to the npcs in half-life, not to Gordon, lmao.

[north thorn]

right, I do want it to attach to players most likely

it can work either way, though, since it could just "attach" to and convert a player when it deals a killing blow

[pastel magnet]

Attaching to players....

I remember making the bell crab

That was so god damn annoying

The way interact triggers update is a lil broken

[gleaming sleet]

the bell crab is a bastard

[pastel magnet]

@north thorn incase you use interact triggers for anything, just keep in mind that if you look at one trigger, and then look at another trigger, you'll still be registering the previous trigger unless the player looks into nothing then back into the trigger you want them to look at

I remember trying to grab a shovel after getting rid of the Bell crab and then it'd prompt the bell crab to attach again, stupid as hell lol

[north thorn]

oh, weird

I was thinking of just writing my own script to handle collisions though, especially since the headcrab will likely be a non-kinematic rigidbody

I want it to bounce off walls

and hopefully have some sort of ragdoll when it's leaping

should definitely be doable, but we shall see

[pastel magnet]

mmm good luck with that, i havent tried using anything except navmesh so far

[north thorn]

barnacle will be the first foray into physics like that, and I at least got the tongue hangin and swingin correctly

[pastel magnet]

nice

[north thorn]

I haven't gotten much into the scripting for it yet since I've had to mess with generation and making shaders and crap

hopefully it turns out nearly as good as I'm hoping, I think it will be a cool mechanic for LC

[pastel magnet]

shaders 👀 nice

those are always fun to mess with

i had some vfx made for my meteors at some point

thought it was the shaders causing random crashes but it was the vfx, so never got to use em

[north thorn]

oh damn, do they just not work in general or just how you configured them? I don't know much about those just yet

the shaders we're adding in the next update are just different ways of generating the PBR inputs though, so nothing crazy yet

will look nice though

[pastel magnet]

i've seen them work for others, and it works for the person who made them, they just didnt work when i used the unity package to add em :/

[north thorn]

oh, is this package present in LC itself? or did you have to try and load it at runtime?

I wonder if it could've been a version mismatch

[pastel magnet]

nah its basically a package with vfx someone made for me for the meteors, they could load it in an assetbundle and into the game just fine, but when i set it up on my end with the unity package they sent it just crashes when the vfx starts doing its thing

its unfortunate cuz it took the person a decent maount of work to make it and idk how to debug vfx if somethings missing or like im missing a dependency in my project or smthn

[north thorn]

damn, that's funky

[pastel magnet]

yea

this is also after trying to figure out for like a couple weeks why a custom shader graph was just... not working in the unity scene but did work ingame, i never figured out why that is happening though

okay i was just about to screenshot it not working

and it works now

thanks unity

[north thorn]

LMAO

classic

well glad to hear it works at least lol

ours have been working great so far thankfully

[pastel magnet]

yeah, ill have to retest the vfx now to see if that still causes crashes or if im all good 😂

unity is an enigma

[north thorn]

using more of the channel packed textures from Black Mesa instead of manual emission maps and stuff makes things easier and prettier

[pastel magnet]

channel packed textures?

[north thorn]

hopefully it magically works again

[north thorn]

yeah, like putting an emission mask in the alpha channel

that's very common

[pastel magnet]

interesting

[north thorn]

or an environment map mask in the alpha of a normal map

although that doesn't work with PBR materials so I have to go in gimp for those

new blast door has one of those that I turned into a mask map that makes it look pretty sweet

[pastel magnet]

im only familiar with the basic maps like base/diffuse normal, mask (roughness etc), emission, never heard of environment map

[north thorn]

another way of saying cubemap essentially, as far as I'm aware

[pastel magnet]

this tool is also so golden back when i used to get my assets from the asset store

[pastel magnet]

icic

[north thorn]

but that's what they call it in source

[pastel magnet]

lets me just pack all the mask textures together cuz hdrp only takes one mask

[north thorn]

oh yeah I used something like that for the OpenBodyCams antenna, but more recently I found it that GIMP lets you pack channels too, which is much more convenient since I don't have to dump the textures onto the disk first

[pastel magnet]

i tried using gimp for stuff like making textures, i pressed one button and ctrl + z didnt reverse so i immediately never used it again

[north thorn]

still not as convenient as if it was an export option, but that'd be a much more specific use case

what the

it definitely should work

what action did you do? lol

[pastel magnet]

not for all options, unless theres some settings stuff i'd need to set

no idea, i was messing with the pen lol

it's kind of the same with blender

[north thorn]

oh, for tool settings yeah

[pastel magnet]

blender is so old, you have to go into settings to setup ctrl + z

otherwise its just completely garbage

[north thorn]

you mean the limited history?

[pastel magnet]

yeah, that and global settings for ctrl + z

[north thorn]

it works fine for me but I don't usually try to go back that far

huh

[pastel magnet]

the limited history is like what, 16 back at most?

[north thorn]

that sounds about right

[pastel magnet]

yeah too limited for me, atleast its a setting and not hardcoded

[north thorn]

understandable

I do sometimes have to redo stuff because I goofed something and then found it later

hasn't been too bad though

[pastel magnet]

yea, thankfully i now have people to do the modelling and textures for me

so now im here with, 3 more robots i gotta code, 6 more hazards i also gotta code, and then set all that up in unity project

not including any commissions im currently doing

atleast its high quality as hell

[gleaming sleet]

oh man speaking of robots: manhacks could be something

[uneven stream]

@reef seal is there a way to not have safeguards on by default for Black Mesa?

Seems black Mesa only has issues generating when CC tries to have safeguards for it

It loads fine with loadstone

[reef seal]

what if it just fails to generate then?

It is not my end that black mesa has a really high tendency to fail to generate repeatedly, I'm not sure why it is like that

[uneven stream]

thing is Black Mesa never has generation issues until CC is used / with safeguards

[reef seal]

It does have generation issues

CC does nothing to generation

[uneven stream]

If I do not have CC I never experience generation issues

[reef seal]

maybe you transmit a generation fail and pick up again after?

the only thing I can think of is that black mesa fails THEN generates from that try

[uneven stream]

neither does Zac and neither does Zaggy and we test a LOT and the only reports we get of any generation fails happening is when people have CC

[reef seal]

Because you must have something silly about how it generates, I suspect that black mesa always generates incorrectly but you accidentally overrid the fail loop which is easy to do

[uneven stream]

that user above for example too had generation issues and when they stopped using the default for CC then it worked perfectly as it should so it was just something I wanted to bring up with you cause something silly is going on

@north thorn would probably know more

all I am saying is Black Mesa never has gen issues on its own

[reef seal]

when the dungeon 'fails' to generate it doesn't actually break anything, it just means the min tiles weren't placed, something that is very difficult for black mesa giving its complex subflows

[pastel magnet]

doesnt your safeguard replace it with facility if it "fails" though?

[reef seal]

yes and thats why it behaves differently
I'm suggesting that black mesa always fails but just loads anyway (you would have to compare the tiles placed to the exact amount it was set to place)

[uneven stream]

it is only ever told to place start and the crystal room

which is does

the rest is just common length

it hasn't had generation issues since v1.0

It never gets stuck on the Random Seed screen anymore unless another mod does something weird

[uneven stream]

this tipped me off to it being CC possibly as along with this it seems to be the common denominator with other users having gen issues too

people who don't use CC's safeguards don't have this issue at all so I just wanted to bring it up

[idle cargo]

https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Rollermine whatif

[pastel magnet]

@uneven stream

when is cobblemon gonna develop a modpack

[uneven stream]

We already have an official modpack, it should be the top of the list of modpacks on Modrinth 🙂

[north thorn]

we increase the number of generation attempts to compensate for the (current) difficulty to generate the interior, but if the descriptions others have given for how the safeguards are supposed to work, there should be no problem, but I have also heard from multiple people that _disabling _ them causes generation to complete successfully. I can't interpret that in any other way than that the safeguards are doing something unintended and breaking our generation

we multiply the attempts be 5 on any moon we generate on, which brings the attempts to 100, but if I understand correctly, the safeguards ought to be result in far more attempts than that

we don't do anything other than what I have described, though

[north thorn]

I am not sure what this means, but we do not patch DunGen ourselves in any way other than to increase the number of attempts

also, are you sure that this issue of getting stuck on the seed when Loadstone is enabled is localized to Black Mesa? have you tested artificially breaking generation on another interior to see if your safeguards get stuck there too?

[reef seal]

I’m trying to remember how it happens but yes dungen can be forced to load as is and I believe that often happens to black mesa, likely where/how you are adding attempts

Would it happen to frequently use all attempts exactly on occasion?

[north thorn]

that is not happening unless though a bug in DunGen.

we are changing a number only

[reef seal]

What number?

[north thorn]

the number of attempts

[reef seal]

Hmm

[north thorn]

and I don't know exactly how many attempts are made on average, but it generally doesn't seem to be enough to cap out

[uneven stream]

It seems to fail only and often with CC's safeguards on

[sacred quiver]

It failing to generate with safeguards and loadstone together was reported long before I added the increase to the amount of generation attempts. So us modifying that has nothing to do with what's going on. We have no other custom DunGen code

[north thorn]

Testing with the currently-released version of Black Mesa using DunGenPlus's dev menu, it hasn't gone over 10 attempts after several tries

it is slow, but it's definitely not reasonable to say that Black Mesa is the thing breaking your safeguards.

[reef seal]

Yeah but why?

If I completely exclude black mesa it still gets stuck at the seed screen

[north thorn]

exclude Black Mesa from your safeguards, you mean? I couldn't say without testing it myself and looking at your code

all I know is that others seem to have had issues Black Mesa generation alongside CentralConfig, and when they turned them off, they went away, which tells me enough to say with certainty that this is not an us problem

or at least say with certainty that it is not a problem that you should be unable to fix or work around on your end

but I will have to spend some time debugging this I guess

[uneven stream]

https://youtu.be/XkdB7APOyY4

New progress to the Elevators that will take you up to the office section of the generation

They are coming along!

[stray tartan]

aperture science when

[uneven stream]

There already is an Aperture interior and moon 😛

[stray tartan]

oh shit for real

[uneven stream]

Yeah Cobertos did a good job on them imo 🙂

NO XU I DID NOT TEST YET

[pastel magnet]

Cobertos is yippie dev? Good to know

[uneven stream]

oh

[pastel magnet]

Wooow

[uneven stream]

[pastel magnet]

I didnt say anything smh

[uneven stream]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-aggresive-funny-bite-angry-gif-16566879

lmao but yes that is Cobertos

[idle cargo]

iirc, the Aperture interior was difficult to navigate

[south terrace]

This, and some of the wall pipes don't have collision so you clip through, and in some places you you can fall to a lower floor.

[manic copper]

hard to navigate yeah, a bit hard to see sometimes, a fair number of obstacles/objects are ghost objets so missing hitbox and collision, some floating props but that one is okay and yeah like the person above said you can sometimes fall in a lower section

too bad cause aperture interior is really a nice idea and I loved the red light emitted from moving fans

[uneven stream]

Well hopefully Cobertos can come back at some point to update their interior!

Idk if they did anything past a v1.0

I don't blame them too tho, interior mods are so much work

[idle cargo]

they are the toughest to make work due to so many factors that need to be considered

tho i wouldnt mind a test chambers interior with some doors being portal framed

[uneven stream]

ha that would be cool

[idle cargo]

https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1298783269273342114 🙂

[uneven stream]

Now it just needs the actual model lol

[lost moss]

thanks for joining us plastered and zaggy! we enjoy your mod

• shigaki

[north thorn]

it was very fun

lol I forgot I had all those cosmetics on from testing OpenBodyCams

[uneven stream]

Haha it was wonderful playing with you all!

[uneven stream]

I thought your cosmetics were your preferred fashion lolol

[north thorn]

it might seem that way with how often I have some of these on but I would at least try to avoid most of the clipping into each other normally

I just throw a bunch on at random to see what might break the cosmetics support

[frail juniper]

we await ... update soonge ..

[uneven stream]

For the elevator and new stuff or for v65? 🙂

[frail juniper]

anything

sob

excited

[uneven stream]

cause v65 should work already 🙂

But elevator and new generation stuff will be coming hopefully not too much longer 🙂

[north thorn]

y'all can blame me

I've had a lot of OpenBodyCams hacking to do

elp

reverb triggers are the worst

I will defeat them though

[pastel magnet]

also openbodycams error'd for a guy in my thread

[north thorn]

👀

[pastel magnet]

ill send error

log file if need be

[north thorn]

got it

just a lil derp, it doesn't actually matter much tbh

it shouldn't happen anymore in the next update

[frail juniper]

kicking my legs back on my bed

awesome news

my group enjoys black mesa religiously

[uneven stream]

So glad to hear it! Crazy that it is almost at 250,000 downloads

[uneven stream]

I can never blame you >:)

[north thorn]

ok but counterpoint: you can

[uneven stream]

[stray tartan]

(she = gal)

I only remember a room with a big office and a bunch of computers (a boombox also spawns there) when I entered it from the ventilation under the floor

[uneven stream]

Oh yeah that is the Lab Office Large tile, but nav mesh in that room should be fine

not sure what the issue would be with Xu's ai monster girl 😮

[pastel magnet]

ill have to test personally but the gal might've tried to path towards the entrance node and maybe thats screwed in black mesa? dunno

i'd check fire exit nodes too

[uneven stream]

Can she use OffMeshLinks with the Navigation Area mask "Climb"?

mesa has some areas that have quite a few of these since it has such varied generation so these help with monsters not getting sealed off from areas that have ladders

[pastel magnet]

ye

she has Everything in terms of mask so thats fine

[uneven stream]

hermmm then idk why she would break 😮

[pastel magnet]

well where are the nodes for the entrances position?

[sacred quiver]

For the off mesh links, or the entire interior?

[pastel magnet]

?

the entrance's node??

is that something the base game creates in runtime?

like the teleport node that mask uses

[uneven stream]

is there something like that?

OH

EntranceA and EntranceB

[pastel magnet]

my god

[uneven stream]

your Xu-speak had me derped

[stray tartan]

😂

[uneven stream]

They should just be in the Start tile

[pastel magnet]

in what way 😭

[uneven stream]

and on the moon

one sec

in Start tile

[pastel magnet]

not this

im gonna like stab you

@north thorn do interiors setup teleport nodes next to entrances and fire exits or does the base game do that on runtime?

[uneven stream]

There is no more room for knife wounds on me after Zac and Zaggy

[pastel magnet]

lucky

[north thorn]

uh, they're SpawnSyncedObjects so it happens an arbitrary time after the interior generation completes

the teleports don't exist immediately after generation completes

[pastel magnet]

hmm icic

so the screenshot plastered sent is the teleport node that the entranceteleport uses?

[uneven stream]

yee

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[pastel magnet]

smh

lucky

but yeah that might be too high up, ill have to personally test later

[north thorn]

I never noticed myself falling after teleporting through that, so maybe it raycasts to the floor or something?

but yeah what Plastered sent was the spawner for the teleport prefab

[uneven stream]

if it is any higher you do fall

[north thorn]

I forget if that prefab is custom or a vanilla one

[uneven stream]

vanilla for example

any lower and you clip into the floor

any higher and you fall when you enter the start tile

[daring swift]

If the Black Mesa Apparatus/Crystal is really deep in the blackmesa interior, how am I supposed to get it outside? I can't climb ladders with it in my hand and I feel like I climb up and down a few ladders just to even find the room with it in it

[uneven stream]

I designed the interior so that the main entrance is always at the bottom of ladders

That way it's never impossible to get two handed scrap out of the interior

[daring swift]

Oh okay. Thank you 🙏

[uneven stream]

Over a quarter of a million downloads 😄

@north thorn @sacred quiver thank you both for making this interior as polished and as feature complete as it is 🙂

[sacred quiver]

Excited for what's to come🤭

[vernal raptor]

Congrats! 🎉

[frail juniper]

gg

[pastel magnet]

I would say congrats but ur emote spam lagged my phone

[uneven stream]

emojis lagged your phone Xu?? 💀

[pastel magnet]

it was a lot of animated gifs yes

[uneven stream]

those are just regular animated server emojis T.T

I removed them for you lmao

[north thorn]

that just happens

Chromium moment

[pastel magnet]

the mobile app runs on chromium?

[north thorn]

well, probably electron or webview, but that's all chromium so

actually maybe not

https://discord.com/blog/android-react-native-framework-update this article claims it's on React Native, not sure how much of that is actually native components vs web view stuff

either way, it really doesn't like gifs lol

[cyan drift]

android react native 🤮

[north thorn]

uh oh

stinky

[pastel magnet]

guys

zac leaked it to me

next update includes dexters' lab

[uneven stream]

[winged wasp]

[uneven stream]

New sewer entrance that will be attached to the Security Room to tease the next new tileset >:)

[winged wasp]

[umbral heron]

holy based

[frail juniper]

as if the dread of monsters wasn't enough, now there's meta dread?

[uneven stream]

These are some sneak peaks at some complex Lab Utility Hallway tiles that will be able to loop into each other

[stray tartan]

ah yes, an alternative to vanilla mineshaft interior

[uneven stream]

This one is still wip, but I am measuring them to be able to be very clean when they connect to other Utility Hallways

they will also have nice blockers to hide the paths that weren't chosen

sneak peaks of some of the wip sewer tunnels (this one is almost player height)

also with nice blockers

[stray kelp]

[uneven stream]

little to big sewer junction (big sewer tunnel is about 2-3 player height tall)

angled little to big junction flooded version

big junction

Odd angled junction

big sewer room junction with hole

Big sewer room junction with Center Pillar

Got quite a bit more planned for sewer that I can't show off yet though as well as more of those Lab Utility tunnel variants which will have cool rooms attached to them and will lead to the Xen area eventually

but with all these properly measured they should make for some sick generation

[frail juniper]

this looks like the hallways of the brotherhood of steel in Vegas loll

this is awesome actually

[uneven stream]

Ha yeah it kinda does!

[umbral heron]

don't tell me these are gonna loop into each other as bad as the hallways in facility lol

i always call them the catacombs cus its so hard to navigate in them

looks real good though

what part of the interior are they gonna be attached to? are they dedicated to lab section?

[uneven stream]

They will lol

[uneven stream]

The sewers will be a new area which will solely be located attached to the security room starting at the new area being added shown here

The more techy lab utility tunnels will be part of a version of lab path that is different from the standard lab archetype that has been in the game. These techy tunnels will have more to them but will lead to a teleporter room that will send you to the Xen alien tiles which more of those will be made too

The whole interior mod is going to be using Lady Ralph's DunGenPlus mod to the fullest by having 4 main paths each with their own archetypes that lead to different areas the deeper you go:

Lab -> Resonance
Office -> Military
Lambda Lab -> Xen Alien
Sewers -> Rusty Factory

[frail juniper]

wait so is security gonna have two paths now

or what is security, the little camera room with the walkies?

[uneven stream]

The entrances to each path will always be the same each run, but the generation for each will be completely random each time. That way you know which way lab is, but it will be a random lab generation every day

[uneven stream]

Yeah the little camera room

It will have a creepy doorway that leads to the sewers now

[frail juniper]

oh sick my group always splits now it'll be even more split gehehe

[uneven stream]

Which will have no surveillance and monsters might crawl up from there lol

[frail juniper]

oh interesting

no surveillance as in their tv camera will get disabled?

[uneven stream]

So whoever is the security room person can watch the main facility area but keep their eyes on that door

[frail juniper]

ohh

that surveillance

the passive cameras

[uneven stream]

Nah more like there are no main wall mounted cameras

[frail juniper]

oh welcome back fnaf

[uneven stream]

Yeah those ones

[umbral heron]

i play with the men stalker enemy enabled, i imagine at least once he'll spawn in the sewers and come rushing up out of nowhere when nobody expects it lmao

[frail juniper]

yeah that's a good change

[frail juniper]

consider me medically dead if that happens

I should install him again loll

[uneven stream]

Also the main entrance will be sealing shut in 2.5 minutes now after apparatus is pulled

[frail juniper]

oh yeah it shut down really slowly

I liked that kinda

[uneven stream]

So if you don't get out in time you have to go back deeper

[frail juniper]

like low pressure

and with how big the damn lab is it might aswell be reasonable for staff

but yeah I get the change

[uneven stream]

Now it matches more with Facility meltdown too, but most people can escape in about 1.5 minutes from all the footage I see if players

[frail juniper]

yeah

[uneven stream]

The app will be worth more too

[frail juniper]

either that or lucky apparatus path

[umbral heron]

i'm guessing the teleporter uses the same design idea of the ship's inverse teleporter? as in, multiple people can stand on it to be teleported, but differently from the ship, it only chooses one location?

[uneven stream]

For that we will be trying our best to port the animation from black Mesa

[umbral heron]

does that also mean the xen rooms will have no connection to anything else except the teleporters?

[uneven stream]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxVzSoJjyXm-9NVHuIJDAfu3L-rsUzpKYh?si=0mPN09_HDvo1uyYX

When you jump into the teleporter ball it would do this basically (which will be interesting to figure out)

[uneven stream]

Yes exactly

Cause it was a bit weird to have them just in lab or around office

Plus we want to make a bunch of creepy Xen alien caves and stuff too

[umbral heron]

nice

[uneven stream]

We also wanted to give each path their own special event

Lab would be resonance Cascade room with app

Sewers I was thinking of doing something like having a water level rise slowly to flood the sewer areas after 4 minutes

[umbral heron]

i'm wondering how they'll be separated though. is it technically gonna be a case of both ends of the teleporter being attached to the same prefab, or does dungenplus allow rooms to be generated without any connection to the entrances

[uneven stream]

For Xen I was thinking of maybe teleporter balls that appear that can teleport you like inverse and also spawn a bunch of monsters

Office / military I have no idea lol

[uneven stream]

Probably going to have to be trickery lol

I'll probably have both ends be the same prefab but far away from the actual teleport room

That way generation can get away a bit too have room to grow and also so you can't hear your friends in the teleport room while in Xen entrance

Would kinda break immersion lol

[umbral heron]

for sure

i'm getting really excited about playing the map with dungenplus

is its minimum size gonna be huge to account for the different generation zones?

[uneven stream]

It's going to be really interesting! Lots of these things listed are planned and gonna take a bit, but inverse fixes, DunGenPlus, elevator and some other stuff will be coming next update

After that we will be focusing on getting Xen stuff worked on, maybe barnacles and then after that gets pushed out as an update it will be full send on finishing the sewers and adding it properly

[uneven stream]

Yeah I think so, but we will okay with it a bit too get it to where it feels right

I also wanted to I've the time during the day for the interior so so bad

[umbral heron]

with the amount of content you plan on adding i might have to set dayspeed slower than half for my group to explore everything

[uneven stream]

But not sure how to do that without breaking things or other mods

Ha

Same thought

When I started this project ways back I always wanted this interior to be easy bigger than Titan but have extra time to explore like 2x the amount

That way you can stay longer and get more loot, but on the flip side the longer and deeper you go into the facility the higher chance you get lost and more monsters are spawning

I got sad when the built in LLL day speed settings didn't work right lol

So I scraped that at the time

[umbral heron]

same, i tried looking at central config's code to understand how they're able to adjust dayspeed without causing the glitch, but since i'm not good at programming this stuff i wasn't able to makeout how it would be different from lethallevelloader's script

[uneven stream]

Yeah I still am not sure haha, but maybe some day!

[umbral heron]

i'm holding out that it'll be fixed one day

[uneven stream]

Same

[umbral heron]

now that i think about it i wonder if the day speed glitch is related at all to the old quota system from really old builds of the game (e.g. version 9)

cus i was looking for info on it and saw someone mention that when it's less than half, it uses 3 days instead of 2 like it does between 1-0.5

[uneven stream]

Oh weird 🤔

It very well could be

Knowing how zeekers did his code lol

[umbral heron]

i swear if that's the cause

and disabling that code is the solution

idk how it would feel

[uneven stream]

Would be funny if it was lol

[frail juniper]

oh so I guess I was lore accurate in putting this interior at 2x before like long before

I should prob put it at 1.3-1.5x in lethal variables ...

1 is too nice and 2 is just comical

because it's just

https://tenor.com/view/super-bowl-sunday-the-weeknd-gif-20283927

[uneven stream]

Ha yes you were!

I can't wait for people to get lost in the sewers

[north thorn]

I believe so, yeah

I can probably figure out a patch, but for now I've scaled the dungeon down to account for the new paths

we currently only have one archetype per path except the xen part, so it isn't lacking space just yet

[idle cargo]

sewers my beloved

[uneven stream]

Another wip version of the Utility Tunnel tiles that have rooms attached to them

gotta do lots of clean up but these will be cool for generation in the tunnels

Examples of some of the rooms that might come with some of the hallway pieces

and if a path isn't chosen that path will be not rendered as well as the rooms and blockers will be put up instead so it looks nice and clean

Another variation with different rooms for each path

The U shaped piece will need lots of cleanup but should be cool

idea would be to chop the center of the path out and have this here instead as the path through if that path is chosen by DunGen

Then this section will will be a security room with Containment Doors that can be opened or closed (Yellow) to create a shortcut or remove it and doors to get inside (Pink)

And the other paths have some more basic rooms attached

[stray tartan]

I can't remember where this tunnel was? Is it from Black Mesa or from Half Life? Or is it just your imagination?

[uneven stream]

all of these pieces are from Black Mesa in the Lambda chapter 🙂

made this one to have blockers like this in these areas

[stray tartan]

then i guess i should replay black mesa

[uneven stream]

Basically i just take small segments out of areas and kitbash rooms and stuff out of them

[pastel magnet]

Half life can't have that many areas in the actual game, I'm convinced plastered is just making it up after the 50th tile

Way too many damn tiles smh

[stray tartan]

but I remember most of them

My brain has been deceiving me all my life

[uneven stream]

I take a lot of creative liberties sometimes haha

but it really does have lots of areas in the game 😛

[runic pike]

Its amazing though

expanding upon the Black Mesa research facility

its wildly amazing

and I love half-life too

[umbral heron]

love how dense this looks

i love a map where they utilize space in a compact yet smart way

[sacred quiver]

I wanna spoil things too🤭

[uneven stream]

the materials in next update will be fireeee

[north thorn]

this guy didn't even record a video

[carmine tusk]

When you say you'll try your best to port the animation, do you mean you'll try to add the whole giant teleporter, startup sequence and all (which would be fucking sick cuz it's one of my fav parts of Black Mesa), or just the actual teleporting-to-Xen animation (Which would happen after you jump into some other teleporter)?

[uneven stream]

Yes lmao

If lethal can handle it of course

First one

[carmine tusk]

That room is huge though!

[uneven stream]

Yeah it is lol

Might have to remove some stuff from it and pull in some of the walls

[carmine tusk]

Well I really hope it works out cuz that would be incredible

[uneven stream]

We ripped all the animations already for it but it's gonna be a lot of work trying to get it all working, but would be so sick

[carmine tusk]

Yeah you don't need the jump pack thingy tutorial lol

Honestly I've thought that the mod was already feature complete and that you've already added all you can possibly add at least twice already

But you guys just keep going bigger and better and I am so glad to see it

[uneven stream]

We have a lot more on the to-do list 😛

[carmine tusk]

Yeah I love the tech utility tunnels too, and the sewers are also cool since they'll pretty much replace Scoopy's Variety Mod (Which has been broken for ages with no word from the dev as far as I know).

[north thorn]

effects are gonna be the biggest challenge for that room, I think

and performance after that, perhaps, although we might be able to abuse CullFactory to ensure that it's essentially just that room rendering while you're in it

we shall see

[uneven stream]

we could have doors that auto close when you are not near them

[north thorn]

thankfully, it turned out that the effects shown after you enter the tp are fairly portable, we may just need to make a bit of a particle system on top of that to make it pretty

[uneven stream]

to let cull factory keep areas unloaded

[north thorn]

I was thinking more along the lines of a 90 degree turn

[uneven stream]

ah yeah

that works too

[north thorn]

CullFactory doesn't know anything about doors yet

[uneven stream]

oh lmao

[north thorn]

and it's not likely to, since I don't think that there's any accurate information about them in any interior, be it vanilla or modded

would require specific API which is probably not worth making

generally there aren't a lot of interiors that have fully opaque doors

[uneven stream]

yeah makes sense :p

[north thorn]

just ensuring that the entry door doesn't sit directly in line of sight of the door opposite should be enough though

[uneven stream]

for that room too we will need to do lots of trimming of extra geo i think

[north thorn]

I'm sure lol

[uneven stream]

https://tenor.com/view/tree-cutting-cutting-trimming-tree-tree-cute-gif-13025359

[pastel magnet]

make them .ogg on release or get your mod deleted on thunderstore

[uneven stream]

[north thorn]

wait, make what ogg? I think iirc we've got all the audio compressed

[pastel magnet]

he spammed like 20 audio files above my message and ig deleted

[north thorn]

ohh silly guy

accidentally posting spoilers

[sacred quiver]

When you post in the wrong channel😂😂

[uneven stream]

Shhhh

Only xu saw

I thought this was our dev DMs lmao

I was eepy

But now we have to quietly get rid of @pastel magnet

https://tenor.com/view/hot-fuzz-shame-gif-26273082

[pastel magnet]

[umbral heron]

@uneven stream WhiteSpike's new mod worked to allow reducing dayspeed without skipping 2 days

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/WhiteSpike/Moon_Day_Speed_Multiplier_Patcher/

i put assurance on 0.3x speed and tested it, saw the clock moving way slower and it didn't cause the glitch when i got back to orbit

[stray tartan]

I saw it too

[uneven stream]

Awesome! I'd love to be able to have it be for Black Mesa, I'll have to look into this 👀

[uneven stream]

some sneaks of some new tiles coming hopefully for the next update that are more bricky/military themed

And some birdseye sneaks of some of the new military tiles I haven't started lighting yet

some will have nice blockers to hide entire areas off like some ceiling vents or walls to hide staircases that aren't chosen too

[uneven stream]

WIP lighting on the newer tiles

[frail juniper]

oo laa laaa

[compact niche]

Whats a good price for black mesa? (I currently have it at 400 and I can get scrap value up to 2000)

[uneven stream]

I've been wondering that myself too

This next update will bring one final massive bug fix (inverse teleport issues should be gone) and finally I think I'll be ready to set a price on it

[north thorn]

inverse teleport issues should be gone
mostly, there's always gonna be little bits we gotta deal with if I had to guess

[stray kelp]

Optimizations

[uneven stream]

There are still more optimizations that can be done and lots of them are being done by Zac by instancing lots of props and materials 🙂

[uneven stream]

Oh yeah probably some few ones we miss, but should be better than half of all rooms having a chance

Enough to where I'm more than confident adding a price to the moon now 😛

[compact niche]

Will I one day be able to press the alarm button under the security desk at the entrance?

[stray kelp]

Dont forget about the mesh compressions :p

[uneven stream]

Ha! Yeah that wouldn't be too hard probably, we could probably do that 😛

[uneven stream]

Yes that too!

[tame crater]

it could work good for an endgame moon, tho its not that hard with the spawn rate.. just easy to get lost in

but its fun always going there since its always different with the amount of tile variety it has

[frail juniper]

and there will be even more tile variety

[nova stag]

lil sad news the actor who played the vortigaunts(tony todd) just passed away

[uneven stream]

oh no I didn't know that T.T

[uneven stream]

Test generation using the new DunGenPlus dependancy

Yellow is the Main Entrance

Using Lady's DunGenPlus we can have multiple main paths and have each one be their own archetype

🔵 Blue is Lab which leads to Resonance Chamber with the crystal
🍏 Green is Office and has elevators that take you up to that level but then turns into Brick / Military tiles
🩷 Pink is WIP Lambda lab that leads to Quarantine Xen stuff we want to add onto over time
🐻‍❄️ White is a teaser area for a Fourth path coming that will be sewer related

@knotty grove how we have been using your awesome tool so far!

Generation is gonna be wild next update

[umbral heron]

this looks so awesome

[frail juniper]

is it optimized too?

[uneven stream]

Each update we do things to optimize yes

[frail juniper]

sickkk

[uneven stream]

At this point it's pretty optimized and runs well, only thing is still that the file size is so big due to all the content so we will trim that down where we can later too

[ornate coral]

So you're fucking telling me

Each area

Will have a different dungeon

Dude I remember when you had only added 30 tiles

And that was the most I've ever seen

Look at it now

[nova stag]

also looks a lot more compact and less lenthy

[uneven stream]

yeah each path will be its own generated dungeon basically that fits a theme

[uneven stream]

yeah instead of one massive long path it is 3 (going to be 4) medium length paths of a certain style/theme 🙂

Thanks to DunGenPlus we can basically have the equivalent of 3-4 interior mods inside of 1 interior

[daring swift]

That is actually insane lmao

[nova stag]

I wonder if the idea of when they are complete splitting them off into single mods is on the table lmao

[uneven stream]

I wouldn't be opposed, though each one has different doorways

So dungen wise to make each work as their own interior I would need to go back to blender for each one

[nova stag]

fair fair, just was wondering

[uneven stream]

We have like 6 different doorways, but each archetype has to be carefully created to make sure DunGen has the doorway options it needs when building each path so it doesn't fail

And main entrance itself has certain doorways to fit for those specific doorways

I could make one down the line of just Office or just Lab or something, but that would also be a decent amount of work. We really want to go above and beyond what has been done before and have a lot planned so I'd rather use that energy doing cool stuff no one has done before instead the same old experience others do with just a few handful of repetitive tiles

*on top of being optimized and trim the file size fat

[nova stag]

all thats fair, just wanted to sprinkle bits of the interior across moons since having the entire one is a bit much for most moons

[uneven stream]

understandable 🙂

[north thorn]

the paths do scale based on the length multiplier as normal though, so the size shouldn't be too out of hand on other moons if we do it right

the experience is definitely going to be mainly based on the size of the black mesa moon though

[umbral heron]

Does using dungenplus make generation faster? Like does it make it easier for the program to choose rooms since it only picks from 1 pool for each instead of the entire pool?

[nova stag]

If im correct no

[nova stag]

rather it lets them change the layouts that interiors would use

making maps not have 1 long branch

rather have them be evenly distrubuted

[umbral heron]

i see

i just figured that each generation having to pick from less rooms for each sector would reduce some of the time it spends trying to find rooms that match what it's already picked

[nova stag]

I dont think there is a noticable differance

[north thorn]

the generation times should be better, but largely not related to using DunGenPlus

iirc, it includes a few optimizations, but as far as picking tiles, having less to choose from should only make it fail more often

having more tiles to choose gives it more chances to fit something in somewhere

[uneven stream]

Generation times will probably be faster, but that is due to Zaggy and Zac realizing the tile bounds on a lot of my tiles goofed which was freaking DunGen out

lots of tiles got redone and will keep getting redone to fix those bounds so that DunGen doesn't think things are colliding when they aren't

[carmine tusk]

Btw I hope you don't make the price too high, since Black Mesa is me and my friends' favorite moon and we usually go there early just cuz of how cool it is

Also, a suggestion: Some things to make the facility feel more real and lived in would be cool

Like lights that flicker or break when you walk into a room, malfunctioning alarms/PA system, or maybe a rare room that has barricades that were broken through and has a bunch of dead scientists (models scaled to match the size of the player)
I don't know how much of that is actually possible to do, but yea just wanted to throw some stuff I thought of out in case any of it catches your eye

[uneven stream]

we aren't quite sure what the price should be yet, but it also should be configurable I think too 🙂

[uneven stream]

I had some ideas for randomly generated blood splatter and broken props

dead scientist ragdolls strewn about that you can take back to the ship would be kinda silly too

[frail juniper]

i can always configure the price in lethal variables

[uneven stream]

I've never done it so that's good to know 🙂

[umbral heron]

bouncing off this idea is there a way to add randomized objects in tiles? like how mansion has random chances to spawn bookshelves, tables, and chairs in certain rooms? like if there were the aforementioned barricades, tipped over shelves with papers strewn about, blood splatters, etc.

[uneven stream]

Yes! One thing I always wanted to make time for but is always so tedious, but thus far my whole time is spent working on new tiles for generation 😛

Zac has been working very hard at turning everything into prefabs though so when that is done making randomized props sets will be so much easier

[umbral heron]

oh i'm sure it is

i showed the picture you posted abt the dungenplus generation to some of my friends and they are very excited about it

i'd say in general the generation looks tidier and uses its space more efficiently instead of extending super far into the distance

[frail juniper]

stamina will actually feel useful

[uneven stream]

Yeah we are excited to see how people will like it 🙂

[frail juniper]

reference for other company-related default moon prices

[sacred quiver]

This should also hopefully reduce the file size, since there won't be so many duplicate materials/meshes/textures

[uneven stream]

yee that too

and with GPU instancing all that stuff performance should be bumped too

[sacred quiver]

Hopefully*😅

[uneven stream]

If I say definitely it will be a placebo perf boost

[north thorn]

we haven't measured anything so I promise nothing

[frail juniper]

idc if the performance is placebo I NEED THAT PLACEBO

[frail juniper]

whenever the interior generated is the xen lab one it's a 50/50 chance of it being really laggy

hopefully with dungenplus it'll be better

[vivid fractal]

slight issue with the walkie talkies found on the moon/interior

I d k if its my modpack (i use "alwayshearactivewalkies"), but when using the tv modules with the walkie built in when on black mesa, and my group hear each other even when not using the walkies.

for my mod i worked on walkies, so i think the issue is alwayshearactivewalkies compatibility as i had to fix that too.. but yeah just thought id mention it xD

[uneven stream]

Ah interesting thank you for letting us know!

[vivid fractal]

np, i would normally work out exactly the issue before reporting it, but testing things where it requires multiple people is hard for me xD

[uneven stream]

No worries haha leads are also good too 🙂

[vivid fractal]

np, hopefully it is that, cant think what else it could be.

[north thorn]

what exactly did you need to fix for compatibility?

if you happen to remember

[vivid fractal]

erm, one sec, let me look

[vivid fractal]

this was the code, but looking at it.. i actually had to make the playing of the audio (from masked) not play to every walkie/out loud/etc.. (the opposite of what i remembered)

the issue with black mesa walkies is actually maybe different x.x

when i had no walkie.. but my friend had one.. my friends were hearing me. I think i was also hearing the walkie when i had no walkie.

foreach (WalkieTalkie walkieTalkie in allWalkieTalkies)
{
    if(walkieTalkie == heldGrabbable)
    {
        continue; //masked is holding this walkie - so dont play the audio to that walkie
    }
    if(!walkieTalkie.isBeingUsed)
    {
        continue; //walkie is turned off - so dont play the audio to that walkie
    }
    if (walkieTalkie.playerHeldBy != GameNetworkManager.Instance.localPlayerController)
    {
        //Plugin.mls.LogError(walkieTalkie.NetworkObjectId + "|current player is not holding this walkie");
        if (!Plugin.alwaysHearActiveWalkiesIntegrated)
        {
            //Plugin.mls.LogError(walkieTalkie.NetworkObjectId + "|cant hear all walkies.. and this player is not holding this walkie");
            continue;
        }
    }
//play audio on this walkie
}

[frail juniper]

oh yeah this especially

i always use alwayshear and yeah the handheld tvs always sometimes play the audio coming through reaaally quietly

[vivid fractal]

there was also i think a double audio when friends were close, i d k

[vivid fractal]

forgot that xD my friend noticed that

[north thorn]

interesting, thanks for the info! I'll have to toss this on the todo so we can do some testing and investigation

I haven't looked at how that mod works at all actually, so I'll be curious to see what's going on

[frail juniper]

pleeaaaaaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[vivid fractal]

well tbh, for my uses..

im doing seperate from normal walkie operation.. so i was more matching what the walkie should do, with that code.

so it maybe if the monitor is like a walkie, but isnt a walkie, then maybe it needs a similar replication, i d k, but I am actually using the walkies, not using my own item, so the issues maybe different

[north thorn]

ours does also extend from the vanilla walkies as well, so I do wonder what causes it to behave differently than the vanilla ones

[vivid fractal]

is the audio playing through the same place as the vanilla walkie?

 walkieTalkie.target

[north thorn]

the same audio source you mean? I think it probably is a copy of the vanilla one, but it was a while ago so not so sure

[vivid fractal]

yeah, what i was thinking was, maybe there is another audio source setup.. so, your audio source is playing the audio differently, and the vanilla one is drowned out? or i d k (similar situation which leads to some quiet audio?)

all i do in my code is play through ".target" audio source, and apply the logic code above to decide which walkie's target receives it.

another thing i know..is.. changing the audio level on the walkies, changes all audio sounds, which maybe why its quiet, masked were screaming down the walkies, so i turned down the audio, and all audio went quiet, i since fixed the screaming issue.. but yeah xD

[frail juniper]

i just suffer from the handheld tvs sounding drowned out and like far away or low volume

[north thorn]

do they sound far away regardless of whether you're holding them or hearing one held by another player? in the sessions I've played with them it seemed like the volume of voices through them was pretty normal

[frail juniper]

they sound far away while i'm holding it in my hand or inventory

[north thorn]

ah yeah, that makes sense

hopefully we don't have any issues with masked, I assume this is with some mod that lets them pick up walkies and talk into them or something?

[frail juniper]

but i think only inside interior because i have footage of it simply working inside ship

might be a coincidence

[north thorn]

that's curious, might need to take a look at a profile code then

[frail juniper]

i've had it happen with not only this profile

[north thorn]

I might be wrong, but I think volume is normally fine

sure, but maybe there's something in common between the profiles you've encountered that with then?

[umbral heron]

back when i used alwayshearwalkietalkies i had the same thing virus had, where i could hear them without having one on me. though i think in my case i had to pick one up first before it started doing it. anymore i don't have that problems since i removed alwayshear, but sometimes it plays the sound for talking, release talk, and turn off 2 times in a row instead of just once. that problem might be with clementenise' customsounds though, because i didn't have it in a pack that exclusively used soundapi

[frail juniper]

alright so i found footage of me alone and talking. don't have enough time to look for different examples because it would mean i would have to sift through ~1500 clips each a minute average. the guy on the other side's mic is stable

the silence if you focus is not silent

SaltyAshy — 26/10/2024 22:39
this + black mesa interior and betteremotes added on manually
because r2modman/gale dying
0192ca4a-b07e-8000-1bb8-f336ba2637a1

i don't have anymore info to dig up as this is old

[vivid fractal]

yeah, for my mod LethalIntelligence, I make masked pick up walkies and talk through them using Mirage/Skinwalkers/Wendigos for the voice.

i havent actually tested the black mesa walkies with my mod, but as far as i know there is no issues.. if there is no issues though, then that means masked are speaking only via the vanilla source.. = why they have no issues, and if they dont speak.. thats another issue entirely xD

[gleaming inlet]

Has anyone had an issue with leaving this moon where everyone on the ship just explodes after the ship has taken off? It happened both times we played on the moon today

This was our first time using it

[sacred quiver]

Someone didn't read the fine print in the Handheld TV manual👀

[gleaming inlet]

there is a manual???

[sacred quiver]

On the table by the Handhelds 🙂

[gleaming inlet]

i guess ill go read then lol

ok got it, thanks

[sacred quiver]

All make sense now? 😂

[gleaming inlet]

yes lol

[uneven stream]

https://tenor.com/view/ladies-and-gentleman-we-got-him-gif-12313683

[uneven stream]

Lol