Employee Classes

[river lynx]

shit's a tad complicated

[dim dragon]

They're satisfying to get working properly though

[hallow jackal]

An extra thought I had for the future on the note of interesting abilities for scout and brute:
The scout could have the ability to trigger a loud signal beacon in his suit that draws the attention of all nearby monsters and makes him their target

[bitter sand]

Not bad not bad yeah

[river lynx]

Oh that's kinda fucking sick, justifies the little antenna on his helmet design too

Love that ability, and since by default he's faster than other classes/the normal employee he'd be able to loop the fuck out of some monsters

Pretty well thought out honestly

[bitter sand]

Mhm

Draws aggro

[hallow jackal]

Aight. Both classes are implemented as per the prototype specs. Time for a menu

[river lynx]

fuck yeahhh

also I was thinking (I should really make a new GDD) that maybe we make a ship furniture piece (later in development) that allows you to change classes in the ship (orbit) without going to the company, just as a commodity

[hallow jackal]

A piece of furniture that lets you do that is a good idea

[river lynx]

just so it doesn't get annoying to switch your class mid quota later on

[hallow jackal]

I figured out asset packages and spawning in a UI. Now for a basic menu

I feel so accomplished now

[river lynx]

HELL YEAH DUDEEE

you're doing so good, congrats!!

[hallow jackal]

I'm thinking that for the prototype, I'll have a simple (and probably not aesthetically pleasing) menu available by pressing ESC. It should make testing easiest

[river lynx]

yeah that sounds good

[hallow jackal]

Voila. Fully-functional

For testing, I'll make it so host can access the menu anywhere and the others, only in orbit

[compact pollen]

I am so excited for this

[river lynx]

HELL YEAH

[honest pilot]

holy crap its happening

[hallow jackal]

Writing the scout beacon ability today

I'm thinking I might just give brute a melee attack that's as powerful as a normal shovel, dealing one damage

[bitter sand]

big kicky

just gotta make sure that when they DO use a shovel it's even stronger

[hallow jackal]

Indeed. Double damage with melee weapons.

[bitter sand]

maybe not the knife

[lavish dock]

Make him throw things and make the things do damage based on weight

[dim dragon]

This might be more complicated than you might initially expect. See #1242100521767014461

[hallow jackal]

We shall see

I feel like throwing things may be too powerful

And with little risk to himself

[lavish dock]

It can kill your friends

[river lynx]

I think the brute's special ability should be something like a stun hit rather than something that makes him deal more damage

like a move he can do to stun enemies that has a long ass cool down and isn't too abusable

[hallow jackal]

The thing is, if he has a stun hit, then the scout's ability and his ability clash

[river lynx]

you mean scout taking aggro?

[hallow jackal]

Yeah

The scouts job is to allow escape

The brute neutralizes a single threat entirely

[river lynx]

Oh nah the stun wouldn't be long, it'd just be to allow the brute to take things out more easily in a way that doesn't mess with damage values

think of it like the radar booster stun, like a stun that's 1 second or smth

I do get what you mean though, there's overlap in how they function

[hallow jackal]

What I'm thinking with the melee attack is that he has enough health to "safely" down one enemy each round or die downing two. Then he pairs well with the scout, because the beacon is useless if you're cornered. Pairing with a researcher would mean he can take advantage of the heal to fight more times

I'm considering a stun too though

And then he can beat the crap out of the victim with a shovel

[river lynx]

yahh

extra points if the ability can only work when selecting an empty slot

so you have to switch from one slot to the other in order to stun > hit

Also I think you weren't here for this but I remember me and Tilted threw around the idea of the researcher's healing thingy being "non-permanent health", like in games like Left4Dead where you can find pills and they refill your hp, but it beings to slowly go down again

[raven fog]

i love employee classes, there should be more educational classes on how to be an employee

Lethal company : learning edition

[gusty elk]

The idea (at least from the original drawings) was that these are all separate people who started working at the company at different times ( in order of newest to oldest) and learned to do their job in vastly different ways since the only guidelines were to not die and make quota

[bitter sand]

That makes sense

[prime sandal]

someone NEEDS to make this a mod bro

[hallow jackal]

That's what I'm actively doing right now lol

[prime sandal]

oh sorry

[hallow jackal]

I have built the framework for abilities and cooldowns with scout properly equipped to make annoying beeping sounds upon triggering his power. Now for the hard part

[dim dragon]

Really quick progress I must say, good job so far

[hallow jackal]

Doing a bit of playtesting with friends to make sure I know how network stuff goes

This is making me excited

[river lynx]

WOO

i'm getting excited too heheh

[honest pilot]

One of my top favorite mod ideas here

[hallow jackal]

Even with what I have so far, it altered the way we played and fostered coordination

I'm going to change scout so that his extra weight penalty only applies after he reaches a certain weight. He'll have no weight penalty until he reaches like 30lbs and then it becomes significantly heavier. It'll let him easily carry a few items or equipment without hating himself

[dim dragon]

Which ones have been prototyped so far? Scout and brute?

[hallow jackal]

Scout and brute

Scout's ability is almost done. Just learning how to use networking stuff

[hallow jackal]

It works! I do need to animate the light that goes off on scout's helmet so it flashes, but that can wait. On to the brute

[river lynx]

Woo!!

[hallow jackal]

After playing for a bit, I'm leaning towards making the classes menu available from orbit instead of at the company building

[hallow jackal]

Brute ability (Not implemented yet):

When an empty slot is selected, press the ability button (R by default) to reel back as though holding a shovel (Will eventually have its own animation). Release to attack. Successful hits deal one damage and briefly stun an enemy that is above 50% health.

[hallow jackal]

Brutes also need to count as two players for the purpose of intimidating baboon hawks

[bitter sand]

Oh smart

Also if we go the route of unlockable perks, giving brutes one "grab-counter" per moon would be cool

Bracken got you? No it didn't

Eyeless dog? Not this time

Tree giant? Nope

Headcrab or whatever it's called? Get it off

[river lynx]

yah sounds better honestly

[hearty mortar]

I feel like this would work perfectly with LethalProgression as an addon

maybe having certain LethalProgression stats only be avilable to certain classes, or vice-versa having certain classes only be available to pick once you reach a certain level in certain stats

i'm gonna be honest i havent read the entire conversation so i would love for someone to recap where the idea is so far so i could effectively give ideas

also from what i have read i would say every class should have 2 variants, one for inside the ship and one for in the facility, maybe a third specifically for outside the facility and outside the ship but i feel like that is too much

and a fifth class that is moreso a jack of all trades would be useful, whilst not a popular idea i feel like it would be decent

[hallow jackal]

Here's the simplest TLDR I can muster:

The mod will add four unique classes to the game designed to enhance teamwork and strategy-building along with adding new ways to play. My design philosophy will be based on pairs. Each class should be able to uniquely pair with each other class to fill in weaknesses.

Classes will be selected from a menu while in orbit and are as follows:

Scout: Fast, but fragile and not great at carrying a lot of items. His ability sets off a distraction beacon for the monsters and gets them to follow him.

Brute: Tough but slow. Increased damage/health and an unarmed melee attack. Reduced move speed, but capable of easily carrying heavy loads.

Researcher: Not entirely sure yet. He will be a healer with extra-sensory upgrades to help him seek out threats and treasure. Perhaps he'll be able to harvest dead monsters for cash?

Mechanic: A clunky and loud utility class. Carries a dim headlamp along with the power to interact with doors/turrets/mines from within the facility. Potentially bullet-resistant and/or capable of accessing the ship terminal remotely.

I think that's the gist of it

Progress:

Functional prototype with a very basic menu for class selection. No unique visuals for each class yet. (will likely be a different helmet or helmet decoration. e.g. an antenna for scout)

Scout: Fully implemented mechanic-wise.
Brute: Stat changes are implemented. Ability is in development.
Researcher/Mechanic: Still in the design phase.

(I'm the active dev on this project)

[hearty mortar]

I feel like what would be cool is having certain things that can only be accessed by certain classes

example treasure rooms with big heavy doors that only hte brute can open
or computers that only the researcher can access to unlock certain rooms
maybe vents that only the scout can crawl through
and i dunno, some mechanism or something that the scout with his tools can repair

these would serve different functions and promote even more teamwork across all classes.

also i really love the idea of having the researcher harvest corpses for either credits like you've stated or maybe a new currency like datapoints which could be used for upgrades similar to #1178407269994594435 or something? Or maybe datapoints along with currency would be used to buy new items like a stronger/better flashlight or diving gear to better traverse flooded moons (lets face it flooded is the hardest weather currently)

[hearty mortar]

i see, well im happy that you're doing such an amazing job

[hearty mortar]

it is like almost 12 am so my ideas arent the best
but if you want i could theorycraf tthis idea in more detail for either tomorrow or some days after that

also in general i could probably give more ideas if you give me a specific area to focus on (e.g 1 specific class or something like that)

[hallow jackal]

You're welcome to share any ideas you want. I can't guarantee that I'll use them, but I'll definitely consider anything

[hearty mortar]

alright
i will get crafitng the first ide atomorrow based on the TL:DR you gave me, along with some of my own ideas

[hallow jackal]

Brute's kick is fully implemented minus the animation

I'm debating whether I want it to have slight knockback or the stun

[bitter sand]

can you do a reduced stun?

[urban bone]

oh y gdo

i got an idea

the class selection is like in madness project nexus

with the origin selection in arena

[hearty mortar]

i have to send the message as a file due to discord limitations, i dont want to be banneed for spamming afterall

once i get back from my spoken englsih final imma get working on the unique "workstations" idea i had for most classes

again in my eyes brute and scout are neglected because i cant find ideas for them mostly but be sure that the mechanic and researcher will have competent features.

[tropic copper]

Hey, if you need help with the UI I'd be up to both design and implement it

[hearty mortar]

All i can provide is ideas sadly

But if tjere is any way i can help besides that im always here to help

[river lynx]

Would be neat if the UI was something more physical rather than just a normal screen or smth

like a pipboy sort of thing maybe?

There's also the furniture piece I suggested a while back

[rotund basin]

maybe it could be a little multiple choice on a clipboard

[river lynx]

Also I get that your idea of Scout's different but it's p much the opposite of the original lmao- like the og's supposed to be the dude that carries stuff since they have an extra slot

[bitter sand]

Omg a clipboard is PERFECT

[river lynx]

Trueee

[rotund basin]

imagine a dark room interview thing

[bitter sand]

Like a resume or a survey on a clipboard

[rotund basin]

YEAH

[bitter sand]

"Please list your job-relevant skills below" for the perk selection

[rotund basin]

yeah

[bitter sand]

That's so fucking choice

[rotund basin]

your just talking to a speaker or something in a dark room alone or something

like the office cutscene maybe

but that might get annoying

for each startup

[bitter sand]

And, if it's an item that spawns at the beginning of the quota and you go to like, "submit" to confirm your class loadout for the next quota, oh it'd be perfect

[rotund basin]

imagine just starting out as a blank, boring dude, finishing the clipboard and poofing into a big beefy tank

[river lynx]

Also I think it would be more fun of instead of giving unlimited remote terminal access the Mechanic (which you should probably rename to maintenance cuz the name don't fit mucj) you could give it the wrench in the concept art so that they can disable and tinker with traps and security doors and such but only when they're close. Might be boring to JUST have a portable terminal

[river lynx]

that goes hard lmao

[river lynx]

smart

[rotund basin]

if you are going with the clip board, might i suggest a small fine print

listing all the possible ways you can die on the job and how its not the company's fault if you die or something

just sounds like a funny detail

[bitter sand]

If it's legible then the print isn't fine enough

[river lynx]

I like the distress beacon thing for scout honestly but I feel like it shouldn't be his main ability overall- like it feels like a side thing and doesn't really reflect either the original concept or the ones we discussed - but this is early stuff so I don't care all that much I just like just noticed all this

question though would this be like a new clipboard or would it override the vanilla one?

[rotund basin]

idk

[bitter sand]

I guess it doesn't matter?

[rotund basin]

it could be added to the existing clipboard perhaps

[bitter sand]

I think they'd have a designated spawn location on the wall of the ship

[rotund basin]

but it might be confusing

[bitter sand]

Like you grab one off the wall

[river lynx]

for compats sake and future proofing I assume it'd be best to make a new one

[bitter sand]

Yehhhh

[river lynx]

yeah that sounds good

[rotund basin]

there could also be a clock card thing

the things you use to clock in and clock out

and it records the time you worked

but clipboard sounds more fun

[bitter sand]

The punch card idea is fun but yeah it doesn't have the same ludo-narrative touch of filling out a clipboard

[rotund basin]

punch card can be for changing characters maybe

like after the clipboards are filled?

but it sounds kinda unneccesary

[bitter sand]

I figured it would just be like

A mail slot you stick your clipboard in to confirm

And then the ship can't land at a moon until all players have submitted their position applications

To prevent people from holding on to clipboards past orbit and cheesing things

[rotund basin]

maybe you can start on gordion to not mess with the ship

so theres no compat issues

cuz some mods mess with the ship already

so you can give the clipboards to the tentacle monster

[bitter sand]

Fuck that's also smart...

His name is Jeb iirc

[rotund basin]

Maybe the speaker can also use a custom message when you give your clipboard

like

'welcome to the company'

or

'remember: be a great great asset'

something like that

[bitter sand]

If those are possible yeah

[rotund basin]

The ship can pull in once all clipboards are turned in to possible prevent more cheesing

who knows what someone can do

but i dont see how it COULD have a cheese

[bitter sand]

Just the idea of changing classes mid-day being against the spirit of the mod

That's the big idea

[rotund basin]

maybe you have to go to gordion again to swap classes

which you'd have to lose a day to do / do it at the end of a run

just incase you hate your class

[bitter sand]

Playtesting determined that was just kind of a slog

So whatever happens, you change class in the ship

[rotund basin]

alright

maybe using the regular clipboard you can change classes in orbit

or just dont allow changing classes / do another way

[river lynx]

that depends on if people choose to start with their classes or earn them

personally I think the system's better as a thing you earn rather than smth you're given from the git go since they're all mostly outright better than a normal employee

[rotund basin]

maybe if you reach a quota in the quadrouple digits you can buy the corkboard for one person

[river lynx]

yah I say either force the player to buy a clipboard item called like "Employee Survey" or something for the item idea, for the furniture idea you just buy a changing station, and then if you choose to start off with a class you just give either of them to the player at the start

[rotund basin]

what if the survey was in the terminal

[bitter sand]

Also viable

[river lynx]

problem with that is it forces one person to change one at a time

[bitter sand]

Mm yeah not as snappy

[river lynx]

if you just want more people to change classes you just buy another employee survey

or have more people stand in the changing station

also the terminal's fucky I think

[rotund basin]

maybe the survey can be styled after Fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats

its still the classes

[bitter sand]

I mean it's gonna be LC-themed however it plays out

[rotund basin]

yeah ik

but taking the aesthetic maybe and porting it into the lethal company theme might be fun

or not

im just giving random ideas and adding on to the conversation because i honestly have nothing else to do rn

[river lynx]

yah same

[river lynx]

Do you maybe wanna open up a doc over the weekend to make a detailed summary and rundown of the perks idea we discussed?

Ik you're usually busy so dw if you can't :]

I'll probably get my friend in on it and stuff

the one who threw out the idea

[bitter sand]

If you wanna run the doc yeah I can set some time aside

[river lynx]

yass

[rotund basin]

tbh i always worry other people are going to act weirdly around me if i add too much / add bad ideas bc thats how i feel my friends react even though they prob are chill with it

idfk why

but its kinda fun giving ideas to you

[river lynx]

nah you good homie

you've got neat ideas

[bitter sand]

Too many ideas is only a bad thing without the right mindset to filter through em

[rotund basin]

thanks

i need that

[hearty mortar]

Anyone got opinions on this?

[bitter sand]

Fighting demons to not just say some insane out of pocket shit in response to a genuine thank you

[hearty mortar]

That's a mood

[rotund basin]

GIVE IN TO THE URGES

FREE THE BEAST

[bitter sand]

I was just going to say Mail yourself to Korea

I don't even know what that means or why I thought it

[hearty mortar]

Mail yourself to pakistan

[river lynx]

I'll read these later, but thanks for compiling it all into one msg heheh

[rotund basin]

bro i just had a random ass idea im prob gonna add to mod ideas

[hearty mortar]

Bet

Imma get working on some other ideas in the meantime

[bitter sand]

Discord mobile 😫

[hearty mortar]

What?

[bitter sand]

Look at your message on mobile

[hearty mortar]

Oh-

Well that's an issue i cant solve without spamming tje chat with like 2/3 max length messages

[rotund basin]

for that you'd need to edit the interiors

and modded interiors would need compat

so its weird

still cool idea

Imagine making gremlin noises as scout from within the vents with your friends unable to track where they are coming from

[hearty mortar]

Yeah that's an issue i thought of

But editing existing interiors cant be that awful tho idk much since I've only ever made custom moons

[hearty mortar]

OH MY GOD WAIT

MAKING ANY VENT WALKABLE TO DO THAT WOULD BE FUNNY

[rotund basin]

yeah but it'd have to be existing ones so idrk

i have another idea for a random scrap / shop item im going to add as a seperate thing ot the mod ideas

and its just gonna be a machine that repeats whatever you talk into it over and over

bringing all the monsters to whatever area you bring it to

until it runs out of battery

[hearty mortar]

Hmm interesting

[rotund basin]

like one of those weird recorder toys you see videos of people messing with at target or something

[hearty mortar]

Also i heardd you all want more physical interactables

I have an idea for all classes to have a workstation of sorts. Or at least i have one for the mechanic and scientist

[hearty mortar]

Yeah that is a really cool idea, especially for dogs

[river lynx]

oh fr? which ones?

[rotund basin]

the scout vents

[river lynx]

could be nice

physical stuff is great cuz i ties everything together

[rotund basin]

maybe you could make the DIY flashbang as scientist

[hearty mortar]

I havent released any so you wouldn't know them.

I only ever really messed around with the terrain creation tools but i never developed them further cus i suck at shaping terrain

[rotund basin]

sacrifice 3 scrap for flashbang

[river lynx]

but the only thing holding us back from making everything physical is the ship being the size of a peanut

[rotund basin]

or maybe a pipe bomb or something too

[rotund basin]

make the physical shit the size of a peanut

make it tabletop or something maybe

[hearty mortar]

I was thinking something more advanced

Leave physical crafting of makeshift items to the mechanic

The scientist would make gas mixtures the players can use.

[river lynx]

yah but it's still gonna cause clutter

[rotund basin]

that sounds like a funny fucking clip waiting to happen

gassing your friends for no reason

[hearty mortar]

Just make something called a transdimensiomal doorway which you can place in the ship and it expands the ship without making it any bigger on the outside

[hearty mortar]

it doesnt help that im german

[rotund basin]

imagine a TSP gas

[river lynx]

I mean it's a noble idea but I think people have already talked about possible ship size upgrades n shit snd it's never actually come to fruition so idk

[hearty mortar]

But yeah imma send the full doc with the exact ideas later

[rotund basin]

bc TSP is expensive for what it is

maybe it could be better than tsp or something like lasting longer

[hearty mortar]

I mean idk either

Worst comes to worst we just have to deal with the limited space and lesve the annoyance to the players

[river lynx]

nah that's antiplayer as hell

[hearty mortar]

Imma send a doc later but long story short

Chemical jugs
Make 4 new colours
Increase spawn rateson moons
Have each jug correspond to a gas
Each gas has up and down side
Mix them together to makeconcotiom

Use empty stun grenades to pack them into grenades or just have players interact to put it into their tanks

[river lynx]

esp since you'd be adding something that (ususlly) only a single crew member will take advantage of

[hearty mortar]

It is but what else can we do?

Unless we make a general workstation that works for allclasses

[river lynx]

idk what we'd need a workstation for even, what's the idea?

[rotund basin]

Possible mixes

Bile - Leads monsters away [Doesnt work with Nut cracker, Coil head]
Pepper - Long Stun for creatures with eyes. Cant be killed during this stun

[hearty mortar]

Each class can do different things with it

The engineer can make cheaper but worse and more dangerous items (singhle barrel dhotgun with chance of exploding, jetpack that is more dangerous, zap gun that can misfire and zap you, etc...)

The scientist/researcher see the message above

Idk for scout or brute yet though

[rotund basin]

scout and brute are more made for going IN

so i dont think they'd need it

plus this is a weird idea

[hearty mortar]

Yeah bit these should also be benefitial to theplayers if ingested

Making an up-downside system would be the hardest part and the one i wanna do when i get home

[hearty mortar]

How come?

[rotund basin]

idk

just feels like it'd be clunky in practice

but it can work

i like it

[hearty mortar]

Its complex but i like ot especially since it once again gives incentive to not just sell all the scrap immediately

Instead ome uses the scrap for items

[river lynx]

yah only half the classes would have uses for this

I like it but at the point where you'd actually wanna use this you can p much just buy the stuff before hand anyway

[hearty mortar]

Yeah that's my main issue with the idea and why idk how to implement it

[river lynx]

but I think researchers should def be able to make something themselves

at the very least craft their own healing thing or whatever

but idk we' might be scope creeping really hard here

[rotund basin]

maybe there can be teamwork between research and mech

[hearty mortar]

Maybe instead we could have the engineer make BETTER versions of items using the item,blueprints found in the facility and s rap then

As for researcher the chemistry mixing idea is cool and i will elaborate on it further once i get home

[hearty mortar]

Scope creep is my second name

[hearty mortar]

OHH I LIKE THAT

[rotund basin]

mechanic can make a Defibulator

but only researcher can make the right things to fuel it

or something

[hearty mortar]

Yeah

[rotund basin]

just an example

[hearty mortar]

Or like maybe only researcher can make phosphorus but only engineer can refuel grenades with it

[rotund basin]

imagine if brute needed to go kill a spore lizard or something like that to make certain mixes

would suck tho cuz i love spore lizard

[hearty mortar]

Btw ignore me constantly seitching what the class names are

[hearty mortar]

I LOVE IT

[hearty mortar]

I hate these vile creatures

They bite me any time i try to do anything

[rotund basin]

what if some classes have a monster priority

like smaller creatures will target researcher more

big creatures target scout more

something like that

[hearty mortar]

Maybe

[rotund basin]

makes sense for scout

to be targetted in general

then again

the main image states monster agro range is up for him anyway

so

[hearty mortar]

here is the workstation for the scientist theorycrafted to 80%

its still missing some chemicals, the system is a bit complicated and i feel lik it would be too complex for this mod

but again throw thigns at the wall and see if they stick

[hallow jackal]

Didn't manage to read everything yet, but the clipboard for selection sounds amazing

[hallow jackal]

I appreciate it, but I think I'll manage the UI

[tropic copper]

alr

[hallow jackal]

My scout is the opposite in that area 😂 . Dilemma is, he's the only class worth playing if he just a speedy pack mule. I think he's better as the class that distracts or retrieves a few items at a time.

I'm taking the concept art as a very rough general outline

The artist himself said some of the abilities weren't very thought out I believe

[bitter sand]

The artist isn't learning hard into the game design aspect yeah so we're not taking their words as gospel, just guidelines

[river lynx]

hmm alright

[hallow jackal]

I don't know if I already said this, but the scout beacon lasts five seconds and grants infinite sprinting while it's going off. It has more utility than just drawing aggro

Everything will likely go through several iterations before it's done

[river lynx]

though what balanced scout for me a bit was the lesser health pool but i get what you mean

[river lynx]

ah then that sounds pretty good ye

still achieves the general idea pretty well cuz you can use it for other stuff and not only to draw aggro

[river lynx]

yah mos def, but that sounds good actually

[hallow jackal]

Just be careful using it as a speed boost, because you might end up playing follow-the-leader with a thumper

[river lynx]

HAHA yeah

I was thinking a good use would be to leap off the titan catwalk but then you immediately aggro everything on you

very high risk high reward in that aspect

[hallow jackal]

It'll allow you to easily outrun forest giants and/or draw foes away from the ship too

Btw, I 100% am going to require assistance with animation and modeling for this project

Going in, I knew nothing about Unity modding (with a very low-level understanding of Unity/C#), and I've been learning as I go. I am definitely not qualified for those two parts

[hearty mortar]

Opinion on this?

I know ny other idea was somewhat liked, aside from the factvit needs to modify the base game dungeon tiles

[river lynx]

oh yeah of course

me and tilted can probably take care of that (well I would only do general designing but ykno)

[river lynx]

No worries 👍

[hearty mortar]

I could probably help somehow

Just dunno how yet

[hallow jackal]

The researcher workstation seems a bit complex/out of character for the mod

It would fit as it's own thing, but not a part of a class

Expect him to have monster harvesting though

[hearty mortar]

well i thought honestly that it would make sense to have the workstation be complex
i mean it is a researcher, a man of science

but i understand

[hallow jackal]

Don't feel bad if your ideas get rejected. That's how brainstorming works

[hearty mortar]

Yeah i know that much, that is how brainstorming works indeed.

its moreso jsut me being me here and wanting every idea i have to be added which is unreasonable and stupid of me.

[tropic copper]

Are you making an API so more classes can be added from external mods?

[hallow jackal]

Indeed

The way I'm scripting it right now is very modular

Keep in mind that I don't know what the heck I'm doing, so I may need to rewrite a bunch of stuff for that later if it doesn't work how I think it will

It will be there eventually either way, because it's functionality that I would love to have personally

[river lynx]

this is probably something that would be implemented further along development

but would you be down to add configs to disable classes altogether?

[hallow jackal]

I'll add the config options later, but yeah. I want it to be highly configurable

[river lynx]

awesomee

[hallow jackal]

My biggest pet peeve is when mods don't have enough options

[river lynx]

me tooo ongg

glad to hear you're allowing for a large amount of customization n stuff

[hearty mortar]

i agree

[hallow jackal]

Balancing the kick by giving it knife range plus a little bit. Too powerful atm

I think it just being an unarmed melee attack with stun may not work well, but idk

Should it have a small (3-5 second ish) cooldown and a longer stun (like 1 second instead of half)?

Where missing doesn't reset the cooldown

Or it could just cost stamina

[rotund basin]

im glad i could add an actual cool idea to this mod

most of my ideas are shut down immediately or ignored

[hallow jackal]

I'm gonna make it so brute can afford three kicks before needing to wait a moment for more stamina. That way, there's a bit more challenge to killing the bigger monsters.

[rotund basin]

could brute possibly kick down locked doors with 3 of those kicks maybe?

that sounds fun

[hallow jackal]

I actually like that a lot. Perhaps if a perks system happens though

It would make keys too obsolete if he has it from the get go

It's time for researcher...

[dim dragon]

How are you planning the monster fragments for this?

[hallow jackal]

One moment. I'll type up what I've got in my head for researcher. I honestly am incredibly unsure of how I want researcher to play

[rotund basin]

if you want to keep it lethal-like gameplay you should maybe try and make him feel like a paramedic perhaps?

idk

[bitter sand]

doorkicking definitely sounds like a perk slot idea

[hallow jackal]

Researcher:

A support class capable of healing, enhanced perception, and harvesting resources from dead monsters.

Pros:

• Scanner has increased range and sees through walls, revealing scrap and enemies
• Quieter footsteps

Cons:

• Increased fall damage

Abilities:

• Medpack
  Once per planet, heal a teammate back to full health.

• Harvest
  Crouching over an enemy changes the ability prompt to say "Harvest". Using this ability will acquire a certain amount of "monster extract" that will accumulate in a tank shown on the HUD. Returning to the ship will rapidly drain the tank, converting its contents to company credit.

I think it needs another con. I don't want it to be stamina because that will be annoying as heck

[rotund basin]

Possible researcher perk: defibrillator: Use a medpack and some monster extract to revive a team mate if they died recently [2 hours ingame maximum]

[hallow jackal]

He pairs well with scout because he can carry things normally and can use the enhanced scanner to tell the scout what lies ahead and where to go.

Pairs well with brute because brute fells monsters to harvest and needs healing from the researcher to regenerate between fights.

[hearty mortar]

convert the extract to an item rather than directly to credits

it'd be too powerful to have instant credits per moon, additionally it could fuck with people having to lose a bunch of money because their teammates died after harvesting a bunch of corpses

[dim dragon]

That's just the "sell bodies" mod though

[river lynx]

Honestly it might be better to not have it do damage and just be two seconds of stun with a decent amount of cool down, idk

[river lynx]

10 seconds with a 1-2 second cool down sounds good

realistically if it was 5 seconds you'd just loop an enemy for a very small amount of time and re-stun

[river lynx]

yesss defo defo

sounds fun asf

[river lynx]

I feel like that healings a bit broken ngl

kinda invalidates a lot of potential danger by just having a single researcher around, and it'd be even worse if you have more than one

Are the footsteps being quieter just a less general aggro thing or just a thing for eyeless dogs/hearing sensitive enemies?

[river lynx]

How about making the monster extract the thing you have to get to refill your healing?

Killing monsters being incentiviced to get money's already what a different mod does and stacking these would kinda throw balance out the window I think

plus I think it could help healing not be broken

Healing wouldn't be refilled once you go into orbit rather once you're able to get a monster extract, this exctract gets synthsized inside the suit and turned into an adrenaline/stimulant shot that gives your allies full health that trickles down over time, losing 1 hp per 2 seconds and stopping at 20hp

there'd be more decision making involved in terms of when you want to heal your enemies (because hp trickles down over time) and if it's worth it to stock up on stimulant shots because of the danger it poses

naturally enemies with lower hp would offer very little monster extract compared to say, a forest keeper you were able to kill with lightning

but that's up to balancing

[dim dragon]

Monty with the idea dump

[river lynx]

it's what I do ‼️

but yeah I think this would be a little more interesting since it would tie the researcher's mechanics together a little bit more too

[hallow jackal]

The healing wouldn't be instantaneous. You wouldn't have time to do it in a dangerous situation

But I like that idea

The stim

[river lynx]

Yah I figured

[river lynx]

it's mostly inspired by the pills and adrenaline shots from L4D2 cuz I really like how they work lmao

[hallow jackal]

The only potential problem I see is that it lets you heal per monster, meaning brute gets infinite kills if there's a researcher, but that's probably not a big deal, especially since your brute would have to be incredibly skilled to pull that off

I'll do it that way first and if it's broken, it can be tweaked or replaced with a different system

[river lynx]

ye, but if it's hard to pull off they probably deserve it

[river lynx]

sounds good yea!

[hallow jackal]

I feel that researcher should start with a stim though

Or his ability requires a kill first

[river lynx]

Could probably be balanced by having the stims take s bit to get synthesized or smth

like you would have to wait a minute or 30s post-harvesting to get a brand new stim

[river lynx]

Oh yeah def

1 stim by default and then you gotta refill it n stuff

[river lynx]

I wouldn't wanna lock the main ability out the gate behind something you maybe wouldn't be able to pull off in solo play

[hallow jackal]

Yes

He needs another drawback. The extra fall damage is very minimal.

Currently, he'd just be a super-employee

[bitter sand]

increased fall damage is also like

just, such a specific downside

[river lynx]

general aggro or hearing-based aggro?

[hallow jackal]

Amen

[river lynx]

Yahh

I say reduce hp on him if possible, make him NEED to be sneaky

[bitter sand]

the Mechanic is the stealth class right?

[river lynx]

maybe from 100 to 80?

[hallow jackal]

Haha, absolutely not

Mechanic is noisy

You mean researcher?

[bitter sand]

no the engineer

the 4th class

[hallow jackal]

That's what I was thinking

[hallow jackal]

He's loud

[bitter sand]

ok is the brute also loud?

[hallow jackal]

No

Brute has no alteration to his volume

Mechanic/engineer will be clunking around

[bitter sand]

ok but the Scout does have the ability to be loud, to run as a distraction

so

that makes the Brute the stealthiest class

which is so weird lmao

I feel like making the researcher quieter than normal makes sense, instead of louder

[hallow jackal]

Only if scout pushes the wrong buttons

Imagine everyone hiding from a spider and the scout accidentally sets off his beacon

[bitter sand]

well so like

every class should have their own way to resolve threats by default

the scout runs

the brute fights

the Engineer has gimmicks

[hallow jackal]

Researcher sees them ahead of time by scanning through walls

[bitter sand]

so the researcher would be the sneakboi

yeah like uhh

night vision goggles guy from

that stealth game

[hallow jackal]

ah yes

that stealth game

My favorite

[bitter sand]

the one that's really well known that also isn't metal gear

[hallow jackal]

I can't recall the name atm

So, researcher will get 20% less health and more fall damage. Is that enough do you think?

He doesn't really have a super potent ability (by itself), so I think it's fine

[bitter sand]

I figured he would be worse at running

like less stamina

Scout: +Speed +Stamina
Brute: Neutral
Researcher: -Stamina
Engineer: -Speed

[river lynx]

not really, researcher has less aggro/less sound aggro which makes him the stealthiest

[river lynx]

ya I'm pretty sure he's the quiet one, I understood maintenance/scout to be the loud ones

[river lynx]

def I think, esp since he's got nothing more than like, a better scanner and a healing item essentially

which a better scanner's not that insane of an ability, and the stim needs to be reloaded thru forcing confrontation, something researcher ain't the best at seeing as his health pool's lower

also more fall damage makes it harder for researchers to run away in places like titan and other very vertical maps

(I don't think researchers bad by any means though he's def a good inside dude)

[bitter sand]

what they were proposing was giving researcher more aggro

[river lynx]

oooh

nah yeah i'd rather him have less aggro

stealthy weak dude and in your face paper doll sounds like good class contrast so adding aggro to researcher ain't the best choice imo

[bitter sand]

like I said before I think reduced stamina is a more interesting debuff

[river lynx]

though I don't think jade ever like

actually said what type of aggro researcher has less of

cuz he said the footsteps are quieter

and I assume it's just hearing-based aggro

[river lynx]

meh, less stamina usually makes something rlly frustrating

like being slower by default's fine but when your speed burst is less than everyone elses you feel exceptionally slower

[bitter sand]

clearly you don't want to live the Out Of Breath Nerd fantasy

[river lynx]

I already live it irl 🔥

my cardio is ASS

also @hallow jackal sorry if it's late for you, how were you able to get the scout's ability to force aggro on the player?

[river lynx]

the dudes

[hallow jackal]

You misunderstood lol. When I said he's loud, I meant engineer

[hallow jackal]

Like, code-wise?

I cycled through the list of EnemyAi in RoundManager and checked if the scout was their target/they were set to move towards him. If not, then I set them that way

Along with checking if they're within range

I'm not on the correct device rn or I'd show you a code snippet

[hallow jackal]

Beautiful

[river lynx]

yah yah

got a buddy trying to do an enemy that makes all others aggro on the player if certain conditions are met

[river lynx]

lmao ty ty

im trying to see what I can do for brute

[honest pilot]

I like how he only looks slightly different while still being distinguished

[river lynx]

another one joins the frey

[bitter sand]

he got em BIG toobs

[bitter sand]

almost feels too different with the other more subtle changes

[river lynx]

clean version

[river lynx]

you talking about brute?

yeah I had a hard time making him look similar to the ogs

especially cuz of the visor shape

[bitter sand]

No no researcher

Because of the coat

[river lynx]

oh?

eh, a little I suppose

I think he fits in really well still cuz the helmet's the same apart from the tube and the slightly larger ear muffs

[bitter sand]

He's just the only one with a big break to the color ratio

[river lynx]

the differences in researcher's suit apart from the coat are like, the belt the head and the tube

[river lynx]

yah I get what you mean

[bitter sand]

Yeah those are all fine

[river lynx]

still feel like it would be best to keep it though cuz it's the most iconic thing from his og design

maybe making the coat shorter would be better?

smth like this?

i have no more space for maintenance guy :'v

fuck that we optimizing canvas space in this bitch 🔥

[bitter sand]

lmao

Wait so #2 is the default right?

[river lynx]

yeah

I ain't gonna lie this maintenance guy beating my ass bruh

the helmet shape is so complicated

I also wanna make him a bit bulkier so I might just redo this one

[bitter sand]

I mean he's basically just got flashlights welded to his head

[river lynx]

i know but the shape's still really hard

[bitter sand]

Now imagine being the one who's gotta model the dang thang!

[honest pilot]

Yikes

[bitter sand]

Nah it'll turn out fine

[river lynx]

I think the main issue's the fact that i'm ASS at 3d space

[honest pilot]

I imagine they are conforming into the helmet

[bitter sand]

I mean at the end of the day it's LC so the bar for model quality is low

[honest pilot]

Good point

[river lynx]

yah

[honest pilot]

Kinda like this maybe?

[bitter sand]

Well they need to house circular lenses

[honest pilot]

Yeah they can fit in there

Gimme a sec

[river lynx]

ficlomg fimaññufkfddf

[river lynx]

yeee that's a good way to see it

we both like visualized sort of the same thing

I still think mine's wonky asf but eh

[river lynx]

might legit redo it w this pov

now that I somewhat understand the view

[dim dragon]

Stamima debuff for researcher makes sense 👍

[river lynx]

yah I gave up

[dim dragon]

Researcher could have vials on their belt if we want an alternative to the coat

[dim dragon]

Different boots look good

[river lynx]

thats is what this is supposed to be

or atleast thats what I interpreted it as

somewhat

[dim dragon]

It was yellow I couldn't tell lol

[river lynx]

like this is a buckle defo but I was like "fuck it, stim container"

[honest pilot]

Ha

[dim dragon]

Like you could lean into crazy coloured and shaped flasks so they're recognizable at a distance instead

[honest pilot]

Maybe the scrap flasks would be good for that

[river lynx]

don't know about the colored cuz the colors right now are all the same as the default suit

this is so that eventually if we do something like a model swap they're compatible with colored suits

[honest pilot]

That’d be cool

[river lynx]

I would not have made them all orange and grey if it weren't for that lmao

[river lynx]

yee

right now we don't know if we're gonna add shit on top of the base model ingame or just make them model swaps

[mental crag]

[flint moss]

animating and modelling different player models?

i'm curious to see how you plan to keep compatibility with other mods that involve the player animator, i.e. emote mods, piggy's variety mod, coderebirth, etc

[rotund basin]

maybe try and treat it as a suit?

but like still disable the others or something?

[tropic copper]

I guess do the same thing as ModelReplacementAPI

[dim dragon]

Adding stuff on top like cosmetics would be ideal but don't know enough to comment on viability

[jolly dune]

If its done by modelreplacementapi then it should be fine

Morecompany has the compatibility for modelreplacmentapi

[flint moss]

pretty sure he meant that as in "instead of replacing the model, it's adding cosmetics which would replicate the feeling"

also

ModelReplacementAPI might get rid of cosmetics on the models

cuz it is fairly buggy iirc

[jolly dune]

Yeah i guess 🤔

[oblique fern]

i think brute could be more beefy

[chrome maple]

minecraft origins for lethal company

[hallow jackal]

My current plans are to differentiate the classes a la something similar to a MoreCompany cosmetic

Should be simple enough to add a few trinkets/helmet modifications

[hallow jackal]

Modeling the "cosmetics" and animating the default player model

[dim dragon]

Oh it's the handicapped company guy

[chrome maple]

I actually wanted to make an origins/classes like mod after that but i just gave up

[hallow jackal]

If the bone scale is editable at runtime, we were thinking about making body types a bit varied

[hallow jackal]

I feel as though even fully replacing just the helmet can't be that hard

[flint moss]

i havent done a player replacement so i cant say too much, but it might be bad to touch the player's mesh/bones themselves

[river lynx]

I assumed this would just use MR api as a dependency or smth

[river lynx]

not what I'm going for since it doesn't make sense for the player's physique to change from an upgrade being applied

I did try to make them bulkier by adding belts and other stuff to push their chest up a little

[oblique fern]

then whats being put into the brutes

it leads into a tank

steroids?

[oblique fern]

and also how would they have more health if they looked the same

[river lynx]

different stronger armor

[oblique fern]

ok

but whats being put into these people

[river lynx]

and them doing more damag is cuz they have like basically brass knuckles in their gloves

[river lynx]

no idea, I just based myself off the concept art lmao

[flint moss]

you're onto something here

[river lynx]

probably just oxygen or whatever

[oblique fern]

not oxygen man

its drugs

[river lynx]

brute would NEVER do steroids

he is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT NATTY BABYYY

[oblique fern]

but heavy drugs

[river lynx]

GAINS GAINS GAINS GAINS GAINS GAINS

[oblique fern]

painkiller?

[river lynx]

GAINS GAINS GAINS GAINS GAINS GAINS

[flint moss]

bro is huffing extra gas as part of his design and u want me to believe its not steroids

[oblique fern]

its steroids

[chrome maple]

brutes die to an overdose whenever they try to take a TZP

[river lynx]

they got high cholesterol

[hallow jackal]

We shall see what happens with the modeling

The brute gives Bane vibes

[river lynx]

yeahh lmao he has big luchador energy

[hallow jackal]

Researcher

A sneaky boi capable of healing and enhanced perception. He turns fallen monsters into something useful.

++ Quieter footsteps
++ Improved scanner range
++ Scanner scans through walls

-- More fall damage
-- Only 80% health

Abilities:

Harvest
Crouching over a monster will allow him to harvest monster extract which can be converted into company credits or used to synthesize stims for his second ability.

Monster extract takes up no slots and weighs nothing. It will be displayed in a bar on the HUD.

(I'll add a terminal command for converting extract into credits)

Stim Shot
Researcher is automatically supplied with one stim shot when landing the ship. More can be synthesized mid-game from monster extract.

Using a stim on oneself or another player will rapidly refill their health to full, but cause it to slowly trickle down until reaching %30 of full.

Final concept for the first iteration ^^^

[river lynx]

Ah I thought harvesting would just be used for the stimulant maming

sounds good

on the fly credits sounds good honestly and might add a neat incentive to engage in dangerous situations which is neato

[hallow jackal]

If perks happen, then he'll be able to obtain that currency instead of credits

[river lynx]

ye sounds good

[hallow jackal]

The stims element is exactly what I needed, because some extra credits mid-run doesn't matter late game

[river lynx]

yah it rlly doesn't esp since you can still lose credits to forest keepers, masks, earth leviathans, etc

[flint moss]

stim shot, how rapid is rapid, is the player able to abuse it's "refill to full"? or is the refill to full a constant number

[river lynx]

I'll see of over the weekend I can arrange a big sesh w my buddy and Tilted to prepare a doc for how we'd do perks

[hallow jackal]

Refill is to full. It will need balancing. Either I'll cap researcher to one stim at a time (my current plan is two or three) or make taking damage cancel the refill

I'm thinking like one to three seconds

[river lynx]

two at a time max sounds good enough honestly

[hallow jackal]

You're welcome to, but know that's a ways down the road

[flint moss]

taking damage to cancel would ensure its not abusable at the very least, or taking the player's max possible health and refilling only that amount

[river lynx]

oh definitely lmao

it's just the ideal way we'd like to go about fully implementing classes n stuff

[flint moss]

queen ant wen

[river lynx]

but in reality perks are just another way of further interacting with the system and a way to justify the unique currentcy that classes use to be purchased

the unique currenty's also just in place to prevent credit griefing and allow more players to be able to obtain classes since they'd be unique to each player, basically a 1-1 to too many emotes' currentsy

[hallow jackal]

Perks allow progression

[river lynx]

mhm!

[hallow jackal]

My immediate thought is come up with around 8-10 perks per class (some could be shared. e.g. a faster cooldown) and allow three to be selected at once

[river lynx]

it also keeps progr ssion fresh since you can mix it up every run

[river lynx]

YESS

that was exactly my idea

[flint moss]

ah so equippable perks rather than a skill tree

[river lynx]

all my homies fucking Hate skill trees

[flint moss]

i think you could get more use out of a skill tree that has occasionally some equippable perks, having a lot of equippable perks forces some to just never be used no matter how unique

[flint moss]

skill trees are goated lol

[river lynx]

big strong perks though may need to count as two perks when equipped or smth to balance em out

[river lynx]

let's agree to disagree

[flint moss]

💀

[hallow jackal]

I like skill trees, but it's a bit of complexity for a mod that's seeking to be simple

[river lynx]

yeah

[hallow jackal]

Maybe when you buy a perk, it gives you three random options and you choose which to take

[flint moss]

i think equippable perks is more complex but we'll see lol

[river lynx]

they're also pretty overwhelming as a casual player

[flint moss]

how are skill trees overwhelming 😭

[river lynx]

I mean it's the equivalent of LGU but with a cap

[flint moss]

no? your idea of a skill tree is not what a skill tree is

lgu is nowhere near a skill tree system

yknow, the tree part

[hallow jackal]

We'll see what happens. If equippable perks isn't fun, a skill tree may happen

Not too hard to make

[river lynx]

no dummy

i'm saying perks are basically LGU with a cap

:P

[flint moss]

you got rid of the screenshot

but

this is a more ideal version of a skill tree lol

[river lynx]

god tihs is so ass im sorry

I hate shit like this it's so overwhelming to me as a player

[river lynx]

this is worse actually cuz there's a billion more things

[flint moss]

you realise it doesnt have to be as full right?

[river lynx]

yah but I still don't like em

[flint moss]

and again, perks you are thinking of would be definitely harder to code at the minimum

[river lynx]

they're too complex

[flint moss]

imo perks are more complex, and you're just purely hatin

[river lynx]

yeah but definitely a lot more simple

like, think of it like the roa runes system

like this is infinitely easier to grasp than a skill tree imo

[flint moss]

skill trees are 100x easier to grasp 💀

what part of a skill tree do you not understand

[river lynx]

i'm sorry that I just really don't agree with you lmao

I really don't care to argue about this

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/588335977110437889/986351310276292628/A3E22DC2-A0F7-43D6-A6CA-BD09FB4CEB6E.gif

[flint moss]

you called it shit, ass, overwhelming, horrible, and wanna leave it as that, bias much 😭

[river lynx]

yeah?

I don't like em, I'm sorry?

lool

[flint moss]

bruh ur so aggressive about it

[river lynx]

I have a bias against skill trees that's all it is 😭

I just don't like em

[river lynx]

I'm not tryina be lmao

sorry

[hallow jackal]

Skill trees can be small

[hallow jackal]

I'm not concerned about coding difficulty. I do not intend to let it stand in the way of any features

I'll start with a perks system, and if it's clunky, we'll go with a tree

They have different pros and cons

[bitter sand]

Well the reason you want perks is so that a max level employee doesn't have like 7 different effects all at once

[hallow jackal]

Yes

[bitter sand]

Like the whole idea was constraining down to making the player choose perks and make a build for how they play

[river lynx]

yeh but generally devs go crazy w em and add 2912094120 little circles to fill in and I immediately yawn

(i'm too much of a hater im sorry)

[hallow jackal]

I'm not a fan of huge ones like final fantasy

I don't want +1% melee damage

That's why I like them like in Marvel's Spider-Man where each upgrade is meaningful

[bitter sand]

Is that what this is

[hallow jackal]

That's from Miles Morales because it's prettier than the main game's

[bitter sand]

Skill web heehoo

[urban bone]

ok so im thinking

to select a class you select 'em like this

[prime sandal]

how is the mod going

[hallow jackal]

It's going quite well

[prime sandal]

thats good im cheering you on

you got this

[hallow jackal]

Scout and brute are implemented mechanic-wise

I appreciate it

[prime sandal]

ok

[urban bone]

oh hi tast

[urban bone]

yeah this is how it works btw

[bitter sand]

I think the idea was you'd use a clipboard with a job application on it and stick that in a mail slot on the ship

[dim dragon]

That was one of the proposed ideas yeah, though I seem to recall Jade leaning toward per orbit changes after the initial playtests

Thought that'd be more in line of a menu on the clipboard or something, but either way is good

[hallow jackal]

I'm thinking the menu will just be on a clipboard that pops up

Not an item you have to grab

[dim dragon]

Oh a separate clipboard, I thought this meant the vanilla one was being reused

[hallow jackal]

I'll prolly just theme the menu that way

[hallow jackal]

Researcher progress:

Completed

• 50% Footstep volume
• 20% Health decrease
• 40% Fall damage up
• 100% Scan range up
• Scanner goes through walls (incredibly powerful)

To Go

• Harvest ability
• Stim

[dim dragon]

My dumb ass thought these were completion percentages until I saw 20% Health decrease

Is the scan through walls toggleable? Some people use scans to "see" ahead so they might want to toggle that to lessen confusion

[jolly dune]

same lmao

[hallow jackal]

It just makes the nodes reveal through walls. The animation still passes over the environment

Is that what you mean?

[dim dragon]

No but thanks for confirming that

[bitter sand]

can we make it so the researcher can only scan monsters through walls?

[dim dragon]

Hmm maybe a perk upgrade for items then?

[dim dragon]

On second thought, ignore my first question. I was imagining a case where you'd scan an item on the other side of a wall and fall into a pit thinking it's right there. But that's on then tbh

[bitter sand]

I figured that would be more fitting for scout

but yeah could be a perk

[hallow jackal]

For now, he'll see everything through walls. Prone to change later

[bitter sand]

perk for Brute that lets him see the health of enemies could be cool

[urban bone]

so no this?
eh thats ok its fine 👍

[river lynx]

a little useless since it's not hard to remember general health values for enemies

[dim dragon]

Current health though?

Useful to know if a hit registered

Do think it isn't needed overall but it fits

[river lynx]

I guess so but on stuff like thumpers you can p easily tell if they do

[bitter sand]

yeah but if the enemy was damaged by something/someone else it can help inform your approach

[dim dragon]

Fair enough

[flint moss]

would be super useful for nutcrackers

[river lynx]

that's true

[hallow jackal]

I want to give mechanic a high level of bullet-proofing for turrets and nutcrackers by default, but it may end up being a good perk idea

[dim dragon]

As a base ability that sounds too good

[river lynx]

I was gonna suggest smth like that yeah

not high level but maybe a lil bit of a higher resistance to em

but as a perk that also sounds good

[prime sandal]

nice

[oblique fern]

brute be like

[coral haven]

This mod idea looks awesome!

[hallow jackal]

I can't wait

I'm so glad Caliginous had it

In lieu of things being way too powerful, I'm giving brute-stunned enemies a window of invincibility and giving the researcher a slight carry weight debuff

[river lynx]

that sounds good

was the cool down for brute's stun move still not enough to make nerf the attack?

[hallow jackal]

Nope

He two-shots most enemies

A brief stun is enough for one to safely kill anything if you pay attention/don't get snuck up on

[hallow jackal]

*With a shovel

[hearty mortar]

im still banking on the custom class-based rooms bein a thing tbh

[hallow jackal]

It's too much work to require one specific player coming to the location to unblock progress

[prime sandal]

good luck on the mod man

[river lynx]

wait does he still have a strength buff?

[river lynx]

true true

[hallow jackal]

He does still have a strength buff, but only with shovels and signs

The kick takes like four hits

[river lynx]

ahhh ok

hmm

[honest pilot]

So when the bracken tries sum on the brute does that match just begin and they start wrestling???

[hallow jackal]

A cuddle match

[bitter sand]

I proposed the idea of the brute having a perk that gives him one free grab-break

So if a Bracken/Keeper/Snareflea/Eyeless Dog maybe/etc performs a kill on him he goes "nope" and stuns the aggressor

But one use per day

[hallow jackal]

Okay then

My squad of brutes just got devoured by the monster

I tried giving him +20% footstep volume

Apparently that's enough to unleash the tentacles

He was just doing his job 😭

There goes another one

That was the most dangerous Gordion trip ever

[bitter sand]

LMAO

Shoulda crouched I guess!

[river lynx]

oml LMAO

yeah I think a 5% is enough

or like 10%

sound's weird

[hallow jackal]

After playing for a few hours last night with a full team:

• Scout and Brute were able to successfully fulfill their roles in the team. The beacon saved us several times and Brute's ability to kick snare fleas proved invaluable. (Being able to knock the annoying manticoils off yourself is nice too) Nothing felt too powerful or like it was useless.

• Researcher should definitely be able to see items through walls for now. Even without stims, you feel incredibly useful playing the role and bring something to the team. Detecting monsters was used only a single time and we already could hear the creature.

[dim dragon]

tulip snakes I assume instead of manticoils

also great to hear the synergy and balance seems fine

[hallow jackal]

Yes 🤦‍♂️

I consistently mix them up

[river lynx]

Oh hell yeahh

with seeing items thru walls do you mean scanning or actually seeing them?

that's cool as fuck ‼️‼️‼️

[bitter sand]

Scanning

The idea being that if researcher is the creature interaction class then their upgraded scan wouldn't work on items

But apparently it's not that strong from initial playtests

PERSONALLY I'd start with a longer scanner range buff first

[hallow jackal]

He's the reconnaissance/intel class

We'll see how it plays out

[hallow jackal]

Just scanning. Rendering them through walls would look janky

[hallow jackal]

It's so unfinished at this point that it's hard to tell how balancing should go atm

[river lynx]

yah I figured

[flint moss]

rendering through walls is also like, really hard lol

[river lynx]

I figured another class could be cool to fit that role (Like one outside of the main 4 added later) but researcher fits that pretty well

[hallow jackal]

It couldn't be that hard. Give the player another camera that only renders the item layer and culls everything else and stack them

Not that I intend to do it

[flint moss]

how would u give the player two concurrent cameras though?

[hallow jackal]

It's possible with Unity

I've done it for first person shooters so the weapon model doesn't look like it's clipping when you get too close to a wall

[flint moss]

but yeah it's easier than what i was thinking about, which is only making one item render through walls rather than all

hmmm

your camera idea probably does work, i've tried custom passes and custom shaders and had no luck

the solution was just making a UI thing

didnt look that great

i still preferred finding a solution that actually worked but couldnt really find any

[hallow jackal]

This describes using multiple cameras:
https://forum.unity.com/threads/2-cameras-running-the-same-time.44911/

Not for this specific application, but the general principles can be applied that way

[copper void]

btw i had the same idea for mod

but i am proud that somebody makes it real

i have a file with concepts ( i mean stats for classes if you want

)

[hallow jackal]

It's been too long for me to remember everything I did. I may have used post-processing to turn the black where things didn't render to be transparent

And then stacked them

[hallow jackal]

I can't wait for the final version

[copper void]

yeah it would be cool as sheeee

[hallow jackal]

OH. I think I remember what I did. I had the main camera render normally and the second camera wrote to an image buffer with the same resolution as the screen. Applied post-processing to the buffer and applied it using a UI element

[flint moss]

ah, not sure if i can really apply post processing as a mod is the only problem

and if i can, its way above me

[chrome maple]

speedrunner only having 50 health + super fall damage would ironically make the assurance speedrun route undoable :/

[copper void]

xd

[river lynx]

you can still slide down the hill but yeah you lose a bunch of time

[copper void]

name is for fun

i mean concepts

[hallow jackal]

I made a bar

Needs to be skinnier though. Maybe a darker/more muted shade?

And it needs numbers

What should the symbol next to it be?

I'm thinking a skull and crossbones or a beaker

[river lynx]

what's this bar for?

[river lynx]

nah I think the problem might be the general color

I'm thinking a yellow or red could work?

heads up tho since you're including a UI element you might have to check for compats w other mods that add UI elements

like #1224086057000108125, #1209584281228152872, #1209275419505860719 and others that I can't recall rn

[hallow jackal]

For the monster extract

Perhaps a dark blue

[hallow jackal]

Thank you. I'll look

[prime sandal]

how is the mod going

[bitter sand]

p good

[raven fog]

yummy monster extract 😋

[hallow jackal]

I'm not going to commit to compatibility (except when it comes to the UIs), but as is, it'll automatically be incompatible with things like BetterStamina and NilsHUD

After it's done, I might have to go through adding some compatibility

[hallow jackal]

Much better

[bitter sand]

Being incompatible with other mods that affect scavenger stats is expected

[jolly dune]

Not an issue in my book 🤷‍♂️

Also i dont think the compatibility for those would work either really

Since classes meant to have disadvantages

Not just advantages

[bitter sand]

Yeh

[flint moss]

Those were just examples, it could get really bad depending on how patches are done lol

For now its fine, but its good that compatibility is planned

[dim dragon]

I made the positioning of UI elements adjustable via config for my mod so this is an option if all else fails + user preference

[hallow jackal]

It's not anything I'll deal with right now. Just potentially on my radar

[river lynx]

maybe a lighter, cyan color would work but I like it

maybe try copying the color of the chat messages?

dis one

[river lynx]

nah but this is like a UI thing, it's more so an incompat in terms of UI elements blocking eachother

[river lynx]

neato!

[hallow jackal]

I was considering that

[river lynx]

yeh I think it would fit the vanilla UI elements rlly well

[hallow jackal]

Okay

For the researcher's controls

Researcher has three actions:

• Harvest
• Synthesize Stim
• Use Stim

You harvest by crouching over a monster and pressing the ability key

Using the stim would be activated by pressing the ability key when a teammate is in range. If there's no teammate, you stim yourself

And then synthesizing would require a second keybind which I don't really want

I've been considering whether the researcher should be able to stim themselves

[hearty mortar]

Hold key for synthesizing

Press for use

To prevent misclicks, double press for use as a prevention

Bind the double use to a bool config option

[river lynx]

synthesizing would be done in the background after you harvest samples from my og concept

don't know if dats possible

[river lynx]

I think they should be yeah

[hallow jackal]

I want them to be used for the credits (or datapoints in the future) too though

[hallow jackal]

This could work

I may just nix the credits thing and have them happen in the background the more I think about it though

[river lynx]

hrmm

[river lynx]

so i'm struggling yet again to figure out the maintenance guy's helmet

and I figured, well I can just redesign it a little bit

and uh

I have 0 idea if this is good at all LMAO

they both feel like they're missing something

[bitter sand]

Hm

Try

A

Uhhhh

Try a faceplate themed more after a heat shield you'd wear for like

Welding

Welding mask

[river lynx]

Could be

but it doesn't really have a maintenance vibe rlly

[bitter sand]

Welders don't have a maintenance vibe?

[pale igloo]

Ohhhhhh

Thanks for the idea ; )

[river lynx]

not the vibe of the og one I guess

but I'll consider it

[pale igloo]

I love this

Gonna make this when I can

[flint moss]

This one's in mid development btw lol

[pale igloo]

Rip

Who is developing this 😡

[flint moss]

Jade

[bitter sand]

You can try keeping the fins and just make the front of the face have a more heat shieldy vibe

[river lynx]

DaJadeNinja

you can always work together but you'd have to ask him

[river lynx]

I'm fairly sure (now that I look at it closely) that those fins are supposed to resemble those little bumps on technician/construction helmets

I'll see what I can do but It might look goofy asf

[knotty radish]

Add the new skibidi toilet move set

[river lynx]

I tried combining both helmet designs

[bitter sand]

The 5head

[river lynx]

ok I fixed the ear thingies (still looks weird but whatev

[bitter sand]

Flip em vertically

[river lynx]

gobby

[bitter sand]

goblin ear type beat hell yeah

the goblins crave the air shafts

[river lynx]

ok for now I'm keeping it this way till I find a way to make the other design look good from the front lmao

[bitter sand]

would it be too weird for the researcher to have 2 lenses instead of the monolens?

like

⚪ ⚪

[river lynx]

I thought about changing the lens

but duo lens would just look like . . .

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-pyro-team-fortress-burn-in-flame-fire-gif-15811879

[river lynx]

also idk if I ever explained em but the bigger ear muffs on researcher are enhanced scanners

[bitter sand]

I figured that was the case yeah

[plush beacon]

Company Fortress Two moment

[hallow jackal]

Where're the headlamps on maintenance?

[hallow jackal]

That's me 🙋‍♂️

[pale igloo]

DM's please

[hallow jackal]

I'll strongly consider that

[bitter sand]

Ominous

[river lynx]

you can see above I tried to do headlamps and I said that I'd simply settle on this look until you actually write down the abilities so that I can have a proper idea of what to include on the design

but headlamps will be there

[hallow jackal]

Ah, okay

[river lynx]

ye it's just that I really struggled getting them to look good

so i'll try and like, see what I can do once you have the abilities written out

how's progress on this btw?

[flint moss]

If it were perfect-monty he'd have been able to draw it perfectly

[river lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/cell-dragon-ball-dragon-ball-z-cell-games-arrive-gif-12626123329263234447

perfect-monty:

[hallow jackal]

Been a bit busy the past few days. Researcher can harvest dead monsters to fill up the bar. Working on synthesizing stims rn

[raven fog]

@river lynx its like your original plan

tf2 classes in lethal

[river lynx]

i'm putting cement into your next meal

[raven fog]

https://tenor.com/view/brick-eating-mukbang-gif-22115496

[river lynx]

nice!! :]

[hallow jackal]

Updated bar with stim counter and arrow to show how much is needed before synthesizing

And synthesizing is now possible. When you have enough, a prompt shows up telling you to hold the key.

TO-DO:

• Allow for stims to be used on players
• Assign different amounts of monster extract depending on the monster

I may need to shift the bar downwards a little

[river lynx]

maybe yeah

also I like these

do they indicate how many stims you have?

the bar kinda looks like these w em which is oddly fitting

[bitter sand]

the charges should be a light teal color instead of the dark blue

to stand out more

[river lynx]

I think the overall color should be a little more desaturated

again like the chat's text

or uuuh the item slots

[bitter sand]

item slots is a really good source to pull from yeah