LethalMatt Moons & Interiors - Outpost 31, Bozoros, Circus, PlayZone

[granite imp]

Like normally

[quasi nest]

Secret tech

(I won't actually use it for the plush, it's for somethin else)

[quasi nest]

It does not spam logs for me

The InputUtils error shouldn't matter, but you can get rid of it by removing the + sign that's present in here: This is a pack\BepInEx\config\controls\Theronguard.EmergencyDice.IngameKeybinds.json

[granite imp]

Alr

[burnt cedar]

@quasi nest Does the interact climbable stuff have a bool for being able to climb with 2 handeds?

if not, dw about it

im just curious

it wasnt explicitly mentioned on the modpage

i also really wanna make rideable minecarts that go in a loop but i have no idea how to do that cus it would be hard to get the player out of the seat without getting them stuck or hit

cus i also want to make minecarts hit players and damage them

tricky balance

might drop it tho

seems to complex

[quasi nest]

Oh the only thing InteractClimbable's got right now is variable climbing speed

[burnt cedar]

ouh

[quasi nest]

But uh, I think just enabling interacting with two-handed items in the InteractTrigger lets you climb with them?

[burnt cedar]

thats fine

[bleak remnant]

I believe so

So beanies question confuzzles me

[burnt cedar]

nope

[burnt cedar]

nah

tried it with storage complex

it suprisingly doesnt work

unless my scripts were broken

but i swear, several times, i tried to turn it on and it didnt work

[bleak remnant]

Interesting

It might be a ladder specific thing cuz I've used that option successfully before

[burnt cedar]

i just tested with ito's climbable script and no, it doesnt work

despite having 2 handeds allowed ticked, it shows that you cant climb regardless

also uh

whatever this is, is ruining every single synced object in my interior

[bleak remnant]

i already told you whats causing this

[burnt cedar]

what is it

because i sure as hell dont remember you saying anything

[bleak remnant]

idfk, i told you what it was in wherever the last time you asked

literally right under where you asked

[burnt cedar]

whats causing it

[bleak remnant]

bruh

just check the place you asked last time

[burnt cedar]

i cant FIND it

[bleak remnant]

LITERALLY WHERE YOU JUST ASKED

[burnt cedar]

shouldnt this work??

[bleak remnant]

I would think so yes

[burnt cedar]

cus it doesnt…

just gives the message of “hands full” or whatever and refuses to let you on

[bleak remnant]

Alright ill take a look when I'm on my pc next

[burnt cedar]

if i can get this to work then I could release the mine interior before jacorn cob makes the scripts and give it the default elevator that just goes to 2 floors

cus then you could go down a floor to the bottom and take the elevator to the top

(once his scripts release ill make a full 5 story elevator tho

[bleak remnant]

The elevator stuff is still gonna be a bit of a while away lol

Though I can see it being worked on rn

[burnt cedar]

which is why i wanna get this working

that way i can have a vanilla elevator that goes from floor 1 to 5

and the ladders for switching floors

if u have loot at like level 3-5 drop down to level 5 using the ladders, call the elevator and ride up

[quasi nest]

Try disable special character animation

[burnt cedar]

ty

ill test it

[quasi nest]

I'll probably have it so special character animation disables itself if allow two-handed item is enabled

(For InteractClimbable, since it's specifically intended for ladders)

[strange beacon]

@quasi nest @late roost https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/SpitfireSZN/BigtopBurgerCruiser/ this is so peak...

[quasi nest]

!

[visual badge]

holy peak

[valid vigil]

oh.. its... peak

[worn canopy]

THIS IS PEAK

[burnt cedar]

i need photoooos

why do people never have photos

of skins mods

the entire point is for me to see them!!

[strange beacon]

peak

[keen osprey]

Oh that's a cruiser 👀

Free candy-ahh car

[inner wasp]

@burnt cedar

[burnt cedar]

neat

[quasi nest]

Clearly should be a required Bozo dependency

[valid vigil]

theres also a version that adds bigtop music to the radio

https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/SpitfireSZN/BigtopCruiserPlus/

[hallow panther]

We finna be back to broadway with this one!🔥 🗣️ 🤡 🔥

[quasi nest]

https://tenor.com/view/black-panther-update-wakanda-forever-yibambe-out-gif-15435310302061938937

Do let me know if there's any issues with latest PlayZone update, I did change a lot of stuff

[late rivet]

testing it out rn, seems every climbable wall i come across makes you stuck on it like this

oh weird i just had a normal climbing wall rn, same day as well, might be something with imperium not really sure

yeah might have just been a few-time thing with imperium, been for a bit

really cool updates though ty!!

im really feeling the updates to playzone its very nice feeling

[valid vigil]

imperium strikes again

[quasi nest]

Ye not sure what's up with this, I do test with Imperium and haven't seen that happen

[late rivet]

same! never had that happen with inperium either and ive used it with this interior a lot

[clear kettle]

Can confirm the playzone sound issues seem to be fixed now. I used to get them a ton and haven't at all since the update :)

[clear kettle]

harmless and silly but thought i'd share. the ballpit and the juice mod are fightiiiing (and the ballpit being the all powerful entity it is is winning)

[quasi nest]

💀

[quasi nest]

Ball pits are an illusion, juice just highlights it

[scenic pulsar]

The ball pits are an illusion 💀

I know that's just a programming thing but the in-universe implications would be concerning at best.

[unreal jackal]

||any chance the banana mode thing can be enabled without requiring progression mode? like, just require Alcatras and its banana mode?||

[inner wasp]

Heyyyyyyyyyy

Soooo wanted to ask

Is there mimic compat for playzone??

[hallow panther]

"There's something in the ball pit and it probably just wants those juices".

[quasi nest]

Oh ye I could separate it

[quasi nest]

There ain't, I'd have to tweak some stuff so the Mimic's not visible from outside (due to being able to see through walls), but also there's relatively few fire exit spots so I'd probably have to add some more

[inner wasp]

oooh yeaah didnt thought of that

sad

[strange beacon]

@quasi nest you did WHAT

[quasi nest]

[strange beacon]

i cant wait for people who dont read changelogs to be like "why cant i route to bozoros help!!!"

[quasi nest]

Oh I made it off by default

Specifically for that reason

[strange beacon]

oh

ok

[inner wasp]

hey guys

why can't i route to bozoros?

[strange beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/fork-found-in-kitchen-fork-found-in-kitchen-edit-gif-14425799655335924125

[quasi nest]

Only a forkful

[strange beacon]

@quasi nest where is my extra potassium 😡

[quasi nest]

Alcatras is substantially larger than Bozo, I'll probably have like a 3x multiplier on them 💀

[unreal jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-undertale-deltarune-chapter2-chapter2-kris-get-the-banana-gif-23225451

[strange beacon]

wait oh

so theres just

more banana peels

which i have off

and therefore am not seeing

[quasi nest]

Oh

ye

The multiplier config does affect them too lmao

[quasi nest]

There's also this

[strange beacon]

😭

@viscid coyote

[hollow wind]

[burnt cedar]

urgh.. the beezb… theyhve gort me good..
Oueghhj.. heuhh.. cough..

dies from hyveness

[unreal jackal]

ok. so. 3 times now, ive been to Bozoros and had it crash on me. i have 0 clue what's going on.
session log and player log are provided

the crash dmp

[quasi nest]

Oh

Thonk

[quasi nest]

Don't think it's actually related to the crashes, but I do spot an Ogopogo in these logs

[unreal jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/nessie-lochness-monster-blink-gif-15472920

[quasi nest]

I have not found solution to the warning spam

[unreal jackal]

take your time. i also dont know if anyone else is experiencing this

[quasi nest]

No like uh

It's a mystery I have given up on lmao

I have no idea why Ogopogo specifically doesn't like Bozoros

I've tried a substantial number of things

I do recommend turning him off there but I don't think it'd cause a whole ass crash though

[late rivet]

i do wanna toss in here that ive had about 3~ crashes on bozoros recently (once with imperium), and i honestly dont know what itd be. sadly wasnt able to get a log either times. though i did not have biodiversity..

[quasi nest]

Huh

[late rivet]

at first i thought it was cruiserimproved since they all happened when messing with the cruiser but im not entirely sure on that, thats all ive got

[unreal jackal]

i shall remove Ogo's pogo'ing on Bozo

[quasi nest]

If you send a pack code I can take a look

[unreal jackal]

are you sure?

[quasi nest]

[unreal jackal]

lol, good luck

01988d6b-9711-26ce-9eff-ea5c7e79f642

removed Ogo on my end (not reflected in the code)

[quasi nest]

Ye

[bleak remnant]

someone's doing something fucky with navmesh

and by someone i mean bozoros ig

[quasi nest]

Whar

I mean the most I'm doing is toggling NavMeshLinks for the Ferris wheel for each cart as they spin

Haven't really touched that in a while though, not sure why it'd be causing crashes now

[bleak remnant]

probably something with updating navmesh? dunno

[quasi nest]

Heatwave weather so the Ferris wheel was going at 2.5x speed too

(I have it do the same stuff as Eclipsed)

Hmm

[unreal jackal]

i remember having Stormy another time. dont remember the 3rd

[quasi nest]

Stormy's 1.5x speed

[quasi nest]

Actually I do have both surface and links set as Elevator, slight suspicion PathfindingLib (with the new elevator stuff) might not like that maybe, though I'm not sure if it'd touch it at all if not in an IElevator-implementing thing, hmm

[quasi nest]

I'm still downloading this pack so I can't verify all mods that could be touching NavMesh stuff just yet 💀

Only guessing

[candid edge]

hum this kinda looks like PathfindingLib is running a job while something is modifying the navmesh, but that's not supposed to be allowed.. I would be interested to see if this recurs if you downgrade PathfindingLib to the previous version

[unreal jackal]

i'll try and test that out tomorrow after my nephew's bday party

[candid edge]

ooh

yeah no rush

I'm guessing others may encounter this too

I'm curious to see if it's only affecting bozoros

[unreal jackal]

we shall see

[quasi nest]

I see why it took a while to download 💀

Lmao

[unreal jackal]

tolja

[quasi nest]

I do understand keeping moons disabled to more easily rotate them out

But dam

[candid edge]

@quasi nest fyi in case it helps you narrow down the cause, the main thing that might screw with PathfindingLib is if you're modifying navmesh (including offmesh links) in a way that PathfindingLib doesn't account for

maybe you're doing something extra special sauce that I didn't think of when I was implementing the synchronization, but I thooouught I was pretty thorough

if it's possibly related to your elevator offmesh link tricks (I think those were yours), then you may be able to trigger the crash by toggling a link every frame

[quasi nest]

Oh wait I actually don't turn them off

[candid edge]

oh huh

I thought you had to

so they would enter the elevator

[quasi nest]

Ah wait no that's for PlayZone's elevator

[candid edge]

ahhh

[quasi nest]

The crash happened on regular circus facility, so no weird elevator thing going on in the interior

[candid edge]

interesting I see

is there anything on the moon that might be fiddling with the navmesh?

[quasi nest]

I mean I don't turn off the ones here as the wheel spins

[candid edge]

hmmmmmm

you know

[quasi nest]

So maybe if going at a faster speed (like 1.5x on Stormy or 2.5x on Eclipsed) it can't keep up or something?

[candid edge]

moving links maaayy be an issue?? not sure

I might need to look at what that does

[bleak remnant]

they sort of update the navmesh, the moving links, iirc right?

[candid edge]

like the ferris wheel moves faster there? that could certainly make it more likely to crash, but probably not be directly the cause

yeah they have to

I'm thinking and I don't believe I have anything that checks if those are causing changes, I might have to hit up ghidra again

I wanna say it probably would be the same code that handles disabling/enabling links and moving them, but not sure

@quasi nest are these links a fairly new addition to where you would expect to have only heard these reports recently?

it's also a possibility this only started happening due to people using CodeRebirth + Smart Pathfinding though, since that causes a lot more pathfinding jobs to run, which increases the chances it coincides with a link changing something

[quasi nest]

I've had them like that for a while

[candid edge]

it's times like these when I wish we had crash telemetry lol

if this is a new crash then it's a lot more worrying than my theory above

mostly because it'd take a while to investigate

[quasi nest]

Kinda wanna see if it's reproducible by spawning like 30 Jimothys during Eclipsed or something

[candid edge]

it seems likely that it would be

definitely worth checking

might not even need the wheel to be sped up

[bleak remnant]

whats a crash telemetry

[candid edge]

dis https://crash-stats.mozilla.org/topcrashers/?product=Firefox&version=141.0.3

when you have version information tied to crash reports from all your users it makes it a lot easier to find when a regression occurred

or if one occurred

or if it correlates to one hardware vendor or another

[bleak remnant]

ohh icic

[candid edge]

etc etc

[bleak remnant]

dcrash everyone's pc with the name that start with a z

[candid edge]

that would be a bit tricky to track down with anonymized data lmao

[bleak remnant]

just check the steam name ez

[unreal jackal]

i'll still try downgrading, but i believe this started happening before PFL's latest update

[candid edge]

that's good to hear 🫡

it'll be helpful to know if you confirm that it happens after downgrading, I appreciate it!

[unreal jackal]

https://i.gyazo.com/0a6bdf35c9d50d28c3612c4939c487a6.png

still crashed

[candid edge]

nice okay

[unreal jackal]

ogopogo is disabled and PFL is downgraded

[candid edge]

time to fire up Ghidra

this should be fun

[unreal jackal]

the info

[candid edge]

I went to a bunch of trouble to hook into the OffMeshLink implementation only to realize that you were using NavMeshLink instead lol

oopsie

I might want to employ your help to test whether my OffMeshLink solution works if you're willing @quasi nest

but I will write a hook for NavMeshLink too shortly

I'll also have to make a hook at the lowest level to ensure that nobody adds/removes links without PathfindingLib knowing, that'll be worth testing separately as well

[quasi nest]

Oh ye I've switched to using them for the most part, I probably shoulda sent a picture of the actual component object now that I think about it

[quasi nest]

Also I probably won't be too available today specifically, something's come up so I'll likely be busy the whole day

But also I haven't actually repro'd the crash myself, so maybe could get @unreal jackal to try an early build perhaps

[candid edge]

yeah no particular rush, I would just like to verify it against both types of links to ensure it covers everything

I wanna say I have a solution that should work now

for both

the main thing I would need is a build of bozoros with offmeshlinks instead of navmeshlinks so I can make sure that that also triggers my locks

[candid edge]

unfortunately I can't reproduce the crash with just bozoros and the masked mod in my pack, but I have a build that should theoretically fix it that I can send to pepsiman

only had to write like 3 more native patches and a bunch of helpers lol

[unreal jackal]

twill have to wait til tomorrow. work til 7 PM CST, the LC night with my main crew til 11 PM CST

wish i knew which mod's current ver didnt like Bozoros' new update

unless...

@quasi nest by chance, did you work on Bozoros' update with FairAI installed? specifically ver 1.5.1 (current latest)

[valid vigil]

ive been having this crashing issue on bozoros aswell, i dont have fairai installed :p

[night quest]

Well if you are using FairAI make sure you downgrade to 1.5.0 from the talks I've veen seeing

But I doubt that's the problem here

[unreal jackal]

checkin if pacoito does, tho; and if so, which version

[candid edge]

the changes to PathfindingLib don't affect behavior other than to prevent crashes, so if you're the main person getting the crashes, you could potentially run the pre-release while others are on the stable release

[night quest]

Well since we know it happens even with the previous lib though it might be more likely that itolib or Bozoros need downgraded

[candid edge]

no problem if you can't though, I can try to see if I can get repro on my end with CodeRebirth and a bunch of Jimothy or something

[night quest]

I also played on Bozoros once yesterday but didn't crash, just got the usual late day lag that I get whenever I play on Bozo for whatever reason

[candid edge]

well the stack trace very clearly indicates it's pathfinding when it shouldn't be, so it's possible some other mod started making the crash occur but it needs a fix on my end regardless

[night quest]

Yeah possible

I also don't use FairAI so I doubt FairAI would be causing it if it's missing

[candid edge]

it is curious that it seems to be only happening to pepsiman though

[night quest]

Cobalt also reported it

so it might be some mod they're sharing

[candid edge]

ah ok hmm

do we have codes for both?

[night quest]

@valid vigil Did you post your code? I know Pepsi did

You didn't, when you get the chance it'll be worth sending that to cross compare what mods are in the packs

[candid edge]

also whichever one is smallest would be preferable to for me to test crashes

or if the crashy mods have been narrowed down at all

[unreal jackal]

COBALT

@valid vigil that's you

[night quest]

Yeah they're offline right now

[hollow wind]

ping them again, that'll help

[unreal jackal]

agreed

[valid vigil]

ill post it soonish, im not home

[bleak remnant]

@valid vigil I heard pinging helps

[valid vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/rigby-stare-rigby-the-cat-rigby-cat-rigby-looking-rigby-watching-gif-13695656141343168129

[quasi nest]

[quasi nest]

Actually I think I had OffMeshLinks at some point for the Ferris wheel but I need to find which version exactly

[bleak remnant]

Whyd you switch to navmeshlinks?

Curious

[quasi nest]

I'm not certain

I like the NavMeshLinks' width thingy but the Ferris wheel doesn't really need it lol

[bleak remnant]

I'd also be curious to see if there's a cost on that width thingy tbh, but maybe not

[valid vigil]

0198950b-a9ad-dcec-1416-233383a28118
i havent played since before PathfindingLib 2.0.0, not sure if that has anything to do with it

[unreal jackal]

PFL version didnt matter when i downgraded to 1.0.1

[signal valley]

I am also experiencing crashes on Bozoros 01989563-8a7c-c558-7175-9a9e2db73767

[inner wasp]

Im also experiencing crashes

On bozos

:3

[quasi nest]

[inner wasp]

Nah idk if im experiencing crashes but when blue dropped the first thing i did was go into bozoros

And it almost instantly crashed

Maybe related?

[quasi nest]

Don't think so

I tested Blue™ to make sure things were Blue'd adequately on Bozo

[inner wasp]

Only tried once since i was trying to go into moons that had blue weather

[inner wasp]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Mmblue

[quasi nest]

I found a couple things could use some more Blue™

[quasi nest]

Bozoros v2.3.5 does have OffMeshLinks in the Ferris wheel

I think I swapped to NavMeshLinks on v2.3.6

[candid edge]

oo okay I'll take a look

[slender nest]

paco, matt... i came up with a new idea for a dungeon 💀
since your playzone map brought me back to some really old fond memories of being young at the local arcade...what about a sort of elementary school?

i do apologize if this isnt the place to make suggestions or if you guys were even accepting any, i just found it to be a really cool idea!

[quasi nest]

I remember this existing but it's pretty old https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/p/MrUnrealTeam/SchoolDungeon

[slender nest]

oh that's cool! i didnt even know there was one of these already but yeah it seems like it's pretty dated now

[strange beacon]

school still works

problem is that shit was made for gnomes/elves

and it doesnt feel natural at all

[unreal jackal]

also a bit laggy. playable, and aesthetically accurate, but the place hurts performance a tad.

not enough a reason for me to disable it, tho

[strange beacon]

heres one actually, just remembered

two-handeds dont properly spawn in it

its not that they cant ever

but i did throw it onto my assurance edit, which almost only spawns two-handed items

and none were on the map

i knew two-handed generation was broken before that, i just did that to provide 100% sure proof they dont generate properly

except apparatus

and paintings i think

[quasi nest]

Oops! All SmallScrapSpawns I guess

[candid edge]

doubtful but good to know

how often would you say you encounter a crash on bozoros? I'm wondering how likely it is that I will repro the issue with your profile

[valid vigil]

last time i was playing it was happening most of the time i land on bozoros. out of like, 7-8 landings i was only able to actually complete a day once

it seems to happen at random times during the day

[candid edge]

gotcha, that's a pretty good rate of repro then

it makes sense it would be randomly too, since this is a somewhat unpredictable race condition

[quasi nest]

@candid edge This actually is reproducible by just doing this

I spawned 7 Jimothys near the Ferris wheel, no other enemies

Crashed after a minute or so

[candid edge]

oh nice

it's weird that it didn't happen with my masked patch mod

[quasi nest]

Jimothy just kinda struggles pathfinding actually

But if I delete the Ferris wheel he immediately starts pathfinding places lol

Definitely related to the Fire exit in there

Or maybe not

I do specifically have a config setting that removes the fire exit lmao

I thought it was trying to path to the fire exit there, but he still gets stuck even without it

[candid edge]

huh, it seems odd for the ferris wheel to affect pathfinding like that

but I have repro now that'll help me to test the fix

[candid edge]

@quasi nest was this a known issue in older versions? this seems to only appear if I have bozoros enabled

I tried 2.3.5 and 2.3.4 and both do this, but this is a debug build, not sure if that may have some effect on the exception

[quasi nest]

Oh uhhhh

Huh

[candid edge]

seems like this should happen in release Unity as well

unsure if somethin weird is going on on my end though, since I downgraded it specifically because I was encountering an unexpected crash

[quasi nest]

Not aware of any missing NetworkObjects, weird

Or uh

I didn't see that message when I loaded up that older version

[candid edge]

trying a clean profile now

huh even clean profile does it

lemme redownload bozoros just to be sure

[quasi nest]

I'll try again too just to double check

But I was able to land

[candid edge]

I also was able to land but that error is certainly very worrying, since it would cut the LLL loading process short

well

I was able to land when I didn't have PathfindingLib+CodeRebirth anyway

it crashed with them and I'm unsure why yet

[quasi nest]

Oh nevermind yeah, I see it

Weird

[unreal jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-eating-interested-interesting-eat-gif-3051385934890756296

[quasi nest]

It's from trying to load up an older version

I could also just send a version of Bozo but with OffMeshLinks in the Ferris wheel, Unity do be slow to open though 🐌

[candid edge]

yeah don't worry about it

this crash I'm seeing is probably my fault, I just had to do a bunch of mod toggling to make sure

and that error confused me

[unreal jackal]

im just watching. i love Bozoros, and i dont want health inspectors to march about

[quasi nest]

[candid edge]

the crash I'm getting is happening instantly on land while it's trying to instantiate hazards for some reason, but I think it's from a memory corruption issue in PathfindingLib

...somehow...

it's all very weird

[quasi nest]

Goofy moon creates goofy bugs

[night quest]

Weird it doesn't happen in my profile though, perhaps some mod is unintentionally fixing it?

[unreal jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/goofy-laugh-wide-eyes-gif-3247559636896710102

[candid edge]

it only happens with the older version of bozoros afaict

but also I would assume this wasn't a thing previously, so uhhh

[quasi nest]

Testing an older version of Bozo (v2.3.5) since that was before I replaced OffMeshLinks with NavMeshLinks

[candid edge]

I gotta figure out where it regressed

[quasi nest]

We did however luck out by not having a Jimothy spawn or something lmao

7 Jimothys in current Bozo causes a crash after a little while

[unreal jackal]

so blacklist Jimothy on Bozoros until further notice?

[quasi nest]

I'm guessing any other smart agent-using enemy could cause it though

I only tested Jimothy due to the funny joke I made about spawning 30 and seeing if it crashed

(It did end up being the case)

[unreal jackal]

ye

[candid edge]

yeah jimothy also uses the smart pathfinding to roam a lot so he's especially good as a stress test

dude I'm so confused tho

what the hell is this crash

it's happening even with PathfindingLib downgraded to 0.1.1

[quasi nest]

Thonk

Wonder if it's somehow something from v70

[candid edge]

hmm

interesting thought

[unreal jackal]

if it is, we sure have been lucky to avoid it so far

[candid edge]

actually

[quasi nest]

I know like steam valve hazards suddenly ceased being a NetworkBehaviour in v70

[candid edge]

more likely it's an issue that's always existed but only occurs in debug build

lemme check

not sure why that didn't occur to me before

[unreal jackal]

vanilla is always the last thing to come to mind when it comes to mod compatibilities

[candid edge]

if that's the case though, you somehow managed to fix the issue without knowing it

yeah there's so many factors when doing stuff like this

[quasi nest]

[candid edge]

my own fault for running debug I suppose

ok it is not the debug build

[quasi nest]

Whar

It appears I can land with Bozo v2.3.5 + CodeRebirth

[candid edge]

it stops having issues if I disable PathfindingLagFix afaict

so make sure you have that as well

[quasi nest]

Ohh LagFix

[candid edge]

I've been testing against 0.1.1

[quasi nest]

Ye I just had PathfindingLib

[candid edge]

if it works on your end then I might have to erase my cache and reimport my testing profile lmao

I'm running out of ideas

[quasi nest]

The good news is Jimothy appears to not really have issues pathfinding when it's OffMeshLinks in the Ferris wheel

Or at least has less issues, I think it's still strugglin a bit

[candid edge]

huh, it's odd if it differs visibly

oh I also have a set seed in my testing profile: 4052198

using cullfactory

ok now it happend with PathfindingLagFix disabled lol

I'm being trolled

[quasi nest]

💀

[candid edge]

and PathfindingLib disabled as well...

maybe this seed is just cursed somehow

lemme try it on a clean profile

nada with just the seed, time to disable more stuff

[night quest]

If it happens with PathfindingLib disabled doesn't that mean it's a Bozoros issue?

[quasi nest]

Well I made it to the fireworks show with 7 Jimothys out and about on the OffMeshLinks version

[night quest]

Wait uhhhh

Is it somehow the same issue that a few other moons that aren't terra meshed have where it crashes only with the Vanilla shader?

[quasi nest]

Doubt it

[candid edge]

potentially, but I'm trying to determine why it doesn't happen under certain setups

[quasi nest]

Testing on a clean profile without LethalSponge

[candid edge]

no it's an unrelated stack trace

it's erroring while trying to instantiate some object

[quasi nest]

Clearly it must be the banana peels, gotta set banana peel multipliers to 0

(/j but you could actually try that lmao)

[candid edge]

hmm might be worth trying actually lol

[quasi nest]

Banana peels do work for me though so I don't think it's that

[candid edge]

if those are spawned from SpawnMapObjects

[quasi nest]

Ye

[candid edge]

hmm

[quasi nest]

SpawnMapObject that spawns a spawner that spawns a banana peel

[candid edge]

oh do they periodically respawn you mean?

[quasi nest]

Oh no it's a one-time thing

Object shows up, spawns a banana peel, refuses to elaborate, gets destroyed

[candid edge]

is that where the error about the network object comes from?

[quasi nest]

Doubt it, Jimothy did carry me over to a banana peel that I then activated

Thus indicating that they did spawn correctly

[candid edge]

oh I thought you found the problematic prefab based on what you said before

[quasi nest]

Ah no

[candid edge]

oh

disabling the nanners does stop the crash

[quasi nest]

What 💀

[candid edge]

I have no idea why it didn't happen on the profile with just bozoros tho

I'll try one more repro with no nanners to make sure

[quasi nest]

I'm even more confused if that's the case lmao

But I guess you can test pathfinding then

[candid edge]

lol yeah that's true I suppose

I hate leaving this unsolved tho

especially if it's being masked by different rng

I wonder if it could still happen

[quasi nest]

Mystery bug

[candid edge]

looks like the crash stops happening if I disable FixPluginTypesSerialization

[candid edge]

so apparently whatever build of FixPluginTypesSerialization I had in my cache was causing issues, but it also happens with FixPluginTypesSerializationDebug

this is so bizarre

[tranquil parcel]

debug breaks other mods as well

so that isn't really surprising

[candid edge]

right, but that's usually due to additional checks in debug

this is different

something in FixPluginTypesSerialization is corrupting some asset in Bozoros or something

[tranquil parcel]

was your cached version the newest one after it got fixed?

[candid edge]

I'll have to confirm the version that I'm using where it's not crashing is actually patching it to load SOs correctly but it definitely should be (it was)

it might have been a fixed version that I made myself before Evaisa pushed an update

not sure

[candid edge]

anywho, looks like my fixes in PathfindingLib are confirmed working, I'll have an update out probably in the next hour

just gotta commit a bunch of stuff

[candid edge]

fix is out as 2.1.0 neow

took a lil longer than I thought because I forgot I had to grab the addresses from release Unity as well

[lusty iron]

Meow meow!

[late roost]

Thank you, very cool!

[inner wasp]

Pawsy even reviving people omg

hi matt!!!

[late roost]

Howdy

[quasi nest]

Not sure whether or not it crashes, but he does appear to still struggle pathfinding if the Ferris wheel exists

(on PathfindingLib v2.1.1)

I could change the Ferris wheel to accomodate his pathfinding, but I assume it's an edge case you wanna deal with

(I probably will change it regardless, I don't really need NavMeshLinks there, or could probably get away with stationary ones at the bottom )

[candid edge]

did you say it did better at this before you switched to NavMeshLink?

thanks for the visual though, and that is definitely very curious

not quite sure what would cause that

[quasi nest]

Oh yeah when I tested the older Bozoros version with OffMeshLinks he seemed to pathfind better (though I think there was still a slight stutter occasionally)

But he could actually route to stuff

[candid edge]

what I wonder first is whether any other enemy trying to path past the ferris wheel might have similar issues

[quasi nest]

You know actually uhhh

I've seen giants do a stutter step thing sometimes, I've been wondering what that's been about but it's likely related

[candid edge]

it may be

[quasi nest]

Like they just kinda half-complete their walking animation but actually move

[candid edge]

I'll take a look with imperium visualizations and see if it gives me a clue

[quasi nest]

But yeah I probably should change it anyway, I was just wondering if it coulda been a PathfindingLib thing

[candid edge]

I'd definitely like to confirm that it's not before I dismiss the issue

[candid edge]

yep 100% it's the NavMeshLinks and it does affect all agents

good job Unity

I would definitely be curious to see how much better it is with OffMeshLinks instead, but I'm guessing it still isn't great

[quasi nest]

[candid edge]

one thing I do know is that for some reason OffMeshLinks don't remove their data from the navmesh before re-adding it when they move, which NavMeshLinks do

I wonder if it would be possible for me to optimize it

[quasi nest]

It is way better compared to with the NavMeshLinks iirc

At least I remember it being the case while testing Bozo v2.3.5

But uhhhh yeah I'll probably stick to stationary OffMeshLinks lmao

[candid edge]

lemme see how moving ones look rq

I'm curious if it's worth me adding a patch for this

I may be able to make NavMeshLinks behave like OffMeshLinks in that regard

oh there's literally no problem when it's OffMeshLinks

puffer runs by the ferris wheel perfectly

at least that's assuming they work correctly in 2.3.5

they do maybe I will try to patch this then

[quasi nest]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-blink-blinkingcat-cute-funny-gif-8859604814399687515

[candid edge]

https://tenor.com/view/plenk-cat-kot-plonk-gif-27710663

[valid vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/crunchy-cat-luna-watching-gif-5706385603848730487

[keen osprey]

What type of is that

[tidal iris]

Since its wide, perhaps a Plank
or Plonk

[candid edge]

pli

@quasi nest In case you're still curious at all, I have done way too much investigation into this and come to the conclusion that Unity is stupid

I discovered a few things:

• Your old OffMeshLinks worked after moving despite having autoUpdatePositions set to false, seemingly because they're attached to moving NavMeshSurfaces which are the actual objects causing the motion
• Enabling autoUpdatePositions on those doesn't cause stutter stepping, despite the fact that the same code paths run as with NavMeshLink

Only thing I can imagine is that maayyybe somehow the NavMeshLinks aren't being placed into the navmesh tiles that follow the cars? Not sure if it depends on the bounds center of the links, the object position, or what

there's probably more I could find out, but I'll have to see if I feel like reverse engineering more of the navmesh code lol

I've figured out a lot of the off-mesh links, but debugging to find out the difference between OffMeshLink and NavMeshLink will be a bit of a pain

[quasi nest]

Ohh interesting

[candid edge]

All that said, I see zero issues with OffMeshLink, and all its code runs directly in the runtime, so I think the only case NavMeshLink should be used is for stationary links with width

[quasi nest]

Yeah I'll be switching off of them for the Ferris wheel

Probably will have 4 OffMeshLinks on either side of each cart that are only enabled when their specific door is open

Sounds a bit more reasonable

[candid edge]

ah yeah that makes some sense

not sure if AI will be able to open the doors but that would be incredibly tricky to achieve regardless

[quasi nest]

Yeahh, though it's not really a common scenario at all for an outside enemy to target a player inside the wheel

There's really no specific ones that path towards the player (that fit in the carts)

I guess the concern would be Jimothy exiting out of that specific fire exit lol

Though I think it can open the windows just by virtue of being close to them already

[candid edge]

you mean the one past the ferris wheel?

he should do fine with OffMeshLinks from what I can tell

the vanilla enemies at least experience no delays in pathfinding

[quasi nest]

The one in the Ferris wheel

I don't think I've seen Jimothy try exiting out of that one though

I did see him enter through it when I was repro'ing the NavMeshLinks crash with 7 of them lol

[candid edge]

oh I haven't seen that, is it in one of the cars?

[quasi nest]

Ye

[candid edge]

oh random small nitpick but you might wanna hard depend on itolib lol

I just loaded in with it disabled since I was swapping from 2.3.5 and it errored

doesn't matter really though

[quasi nest]

I do though

At least it's both in the manifest and Bozoros .dll as a hard dependency

[candid edge]

huh

that seems odd unless there's some code that might be running regardless of whether the plugin is initialized by BepInEx

not a big deal tho

[candid edge]

ahhhh I figured out the difference

NavMeshLink with width > 0 won't use the navmesh tile's transform when it gets updated by the tile moving

it's also very possible that the width is the cause of the delays in pathfinding, perhaps it causes more time-consuming threaded work to update the polygons of the navmesh around the edges

I'm also not sure whether the endpoints of the OffMeshLinks were accurate with auto update off, but with it on, it didn't cause any stutter stepping either

[bleak remnant]

@candid edge since you're already looking at offmeshlinks and navmeshlinks

you probably already know but

do offmeshlinks contain references to agents on them?

i could check but lazy and you're right here

[candid edge]

wdym references to agents?

oh you mean agents passing through them I suppose

[bleak remnant]

agents travelling an offmeshlink take time to do it based on the agent's speed, so i was wondering if off mesh links contain references to agents travelling through em

[candid edge]

that would be in the agent's crowd data

[bleak remnant]

crowd data?

[candid edge]

it's an internal struct that Unity uses to jobify the agent movement

there's one for each NavMeshAgent afaik

[bleak remnant]

so if i have an off mesh link, im definitely able to tell what agents are on it, that data's on it?

[candid edge]

I believe that's where that info would be, if not it's on the internal info of the agent

no you would have to look at all the agents in the world to find out if any are on your link

[bleak remnant]

hmmm alright

that might be a bit expensive depending on how convoluted that gets

if im checking it every frame

which ig brings me to something else, off mesh links are considered internal teleports in pathfindinglib right?

[candid edge]

no

the navmesh handles them

the only reason I gotta screw with them is because of navmesh modification

[bleak remnant]

oh, what are internal teleports then?

this is sorta related to the portal effect i told you about in dms, i dont want enemies to think something is super costly if offmeshlinks calculate their cost based on distance

[candid edge]

unused currently

it's just to allow agents to teleport between areas

[bleak remnant]

icic, sounds like what i need but since not every enemy would be able to implement that natively i gotta settle for something like putting off mesh links and hoping agents dont think its super costly lol

also im stupid i can just change this

[candid edge]

I just noticed

NavMeshLink has the cost override as an int

Unity devs really screwed up

good thing it's there on OffMeshLink at least

[bleak remnant]

is it supposed to be a float?

[candid edge]

it is indeed

it's a multiplier

[bleak remnant]

wait what

oh that makes sense

thinking about it yeah

that's weird to not be a multiplier 💀

[candid edge]

they definitely could also make it an absolute cost value, or both, but

[candid edge]

interestingly, it doesn't appear to be the link width that's the cause of the stutter stepping either

[quasi nest]

Thonk

[candid edge]

welp it looks like I must've goofed something previously in my OffMeshLink testing, it looks like setting autoUpdatePositions to true does indeed cause the stutter stepping as well

but that's actually good to know, since it gives me more of an idea of where I may be able to experiment with solutions

I suspect I may be able to modify the positions of the links and then update them without having to remove/re-add them, but we'll see if that explodes horribly

it seems like it should be possible, considering that the NavMeshSurfaces are already doing something similar

[quasi nest]

The stutter stepping (at least by Jimothy) still seems to happen with OffMeshLinks that have autoUpdatePositions set to false

Thonk

I have it so they activate when their respective window is opened

The moment I open one it starts happening

I can switch to stationary ones but I'm wondering why they're fine in v2.3.5

[candid edge]

were they fine for you in 2.3.5 when you tested Jimothy?

I never tried him, only puffers

[quasi nest]

It was mostly fine

I think I saw him stutter a bit occasionally, but he was actually moving places

[candid edge]

I would suggest checking where the link object itself was before then

see if that makes a difference, maybe it needs to be in a particular spot to make it attach to the moving tile

[quasi nest]

Yeah loading up the older version

Ohhh wait

I have them as children of the actual NavMeshSurface

Yeah he paths just fine in v2.3.5

I'll try changin that

[quasi nest]

Nevermind I'm dumb

I forgot that was something I wanted to test/double check

[quasi nest]

Yeah nevermind it was just that

I was reenabling autoUpdatePositions

[candid edge]

oop I see

[little viper]

me = "be carefull you can drown on this ground"

my crew 2 seconds later=

and when we found the jumpzone for the first time

[granite imp]

@quasi nest

Cant load into most moons

[quasi nest]

Thonk

[granite imp]

Uh here

[granite imp]

PIKMIN MOON KILLED MY PC

[quasi nest]

Also lotta errors going on in here 💀

[granite imp]

[candid edge]

it only took me like a week but I managed to make OffMeshLinks with auto update on not cause stutter stepping

problem is that this could potentially break obscure setups without me knowing it, so I might have to make it opt in to start

[night quest]

Will this potentially fix Scrap-E in CodeRebirth?

He's had a bad habit of getting stuck at times for up to 2 minutes at times

[candid edge]

uh probably not

this is a very specific scenario

map dependent

[quasi nest]

👀

I've still yet to release Bozo Ferris wheel adjustments so that's probably good

[night quest]

Ah well if you and @bleak remnant Ever manage to look into Scrap-E that could be amazing, he's a really cool enemy but when he's holding you and comes across some obscure thing and gets stuck on something that Jimothy won't get stuck at all on it can be really frustrating lol, especially since he tends to stall for 1-2 minutes I personally had to turn him off for now

[candid edge]

I do gotta make this fix work for NavMeshLink, and also see if it works for non-zero width, but fingers crossed

[candid edge]

that sounds like a logic error rather than pathfinding, but if they ask me I'm down to look into it

at least until I get busy with work in 2 weeks

[bleak remnant]

Omg u finally got work??

Congrats

[bleak remnant]

It is a logic error yeah, the enemy doesn't pathfind normally like any other agent, it bolts in straight lines so I calculate a path, and make each corner in the path an individual path and path to it unless smthn changes, I think my rotation logic is flawed and I'm it gets stuck sometimes

[candid edge]

yee thank you thank you 🫡

[keen osprey]

This could've been playzone 😔
How gullible I've been

[quasi nest]

Ball pit during Flooded weather

[slender nest]

hell yeah more liminal dungeons 🤤

[keen osprey]

[slender nest]

hello! could you provide me info on what causes stutter stepping and how to fix it? i know this may not be the right chat but this is the only recent message i could find on the issue im now having 😔

[candid edge]

uh

are you a mod developer?

[slender nest]

i'm sorry, i'm not but i do kinda understand a bit when it comes to specific configs or possibly even changing a code or two if it's basic enough

[candid edge]

I'm afraid as an end user your best bet is to try to determine the minimal mods needed to reproduce the issue and just report it

stutter stepping is almost certainly either broken AI or some conflict

[slender nest]

sounds good! i'm actually going through the mods one by one at the moment to figure out what's going on, since it seems like for solo play im getting one kind of issue but when it comes to multiplayer it's an entirely new set of problems
ill see if i could replicate it, but i just thought i'd ask since i searched around in the server for mentions of stutter walking and this was the most recent

[candid edge]

it's certainly easier to debug if you're familiar with how AI works in the game and therefore know what to look for as far as malfunctions, but that takes a lot of explanation unfortunately

[quasi nest]

I'm causing it

(on Bozoros)

-# Fix coming soon™

But yeah it do just be any moving NavMeshLinks or OffMeshLinks with autoUpdatePosition that can cause it, though I can't think of any other mods doing such a thing off the top of my head

[slender nest]

wait actually? cause i disabled the moon and playzone just in case after reading up on the chat above and i think something bigger might be causing it since the stutters keep happening, even on the ship... i wonder if i have a broken mod or if some ai change is overlapping with eachother or something

[quasi nest]

I don't think it's the only source of the stutter stepping, I should clarify

I just know that does cause it

[sweet prawn]

Make a "John carpenter's the thing" monster for the bunker please.

[earnest zealot]

Which Thing to add would be the funny thing to decide

[sweet prawn]

My idea for it would be to take the stats and transformation from the "infected company" mod but to make it ai controlled and designed like a mask variant type enemy except rather than transforming you directly instead it just tries to kill you directly but each hit has a 50% to infect you transforming you after a delay.

[clear kettle]

is there any chance the locked ferris wheel fire exit door on bozoros could be a config toggle?

[quasi nest]

It does have a config toggle but it's to get rid of the door entirely

[strange beacon]

@quasi nest hi yes i found a banana peel in circus with them disabled again

on a different moon this time

[unreal jackal]

toggle put it on a different moon

"Your problem, now."

[quasi nest]

I'll double check it still work, I might've goofed something up when adding potassium to Alcatras

[clear kettle]

oh wait when the heck did that get there 😩

ok cool then lmao

[late roost]

I'm in the zone

[sweet prawn]

NOOOOOOOOOO-

[inner wasp]

wow! the update looking nice!!

[late roost]

This mall was crazy, they had so many separate types of places like this that when combined are pretty much PlayZone

There was an indoor amusement park detached from the main mall that I didn't go to

[late rivet]

that sounds so rad damm!!

[bleak remnant]

rad...?

[late rivet]

so when are we getting the custom interior exclusive enemy, ticket man

[bleak remnant]

clark kent in our universe 😔

[late roost]

https://tenor.com/view/digi-byte-digi-byte-meme-cryptomemes-gif-meme-gif-18053152

All the games were extremely focused on gambling

But the coin pushers were peak, we sat for an hour playing a baseball coin pusher from Konami that was genuinely a lot of fun

[quasi nest]

Obligatory "LET'S GO GAMBLING" mention

https://tenor.com/view/gamblecore-stickman-casino-gamble-gif-7118676210396292522

[late roost]

The only time I've ever gone gambling I left the casino with $200 that I didn't have before so 100% success rate so far

Can't wait for someone to make the Casino Floor interior

[late rivet]

thatd actually go kinda crazy honestly

now the scariest thing that can kill me in this interior is the rigged machines

[slender nest]

that's actually a really good idea... a sort of vegas moon where the interior is like a hotel/casino?

[late roost]

you either get the scrap from winning, or spawn a monster if you lose

surprise ghost girl haunt lmao

[bleak remnant]

the moon's time multiplier is 0.0001

but the clock moves normally

so you're there for like 30 days

[late rivet]

routing to moon 777-Jackpot to get stuck in the casino labrinth for months and live off of the chocolate coins that every machine is filled with and an unattended maneater i found

[quasi nest]

Oxyde but for gambling 💀

99% of gamblers quit right before hitting their 100x value quota

[bleak remnant]

loool

[pliant forge]

@late roost hi, hope you dont mind the ping, im having compatibility issues with bozoros because it has a planet tag called "fun", because lethal level loader lets you filter planets by tag, this means i cant use an actual command called "fun" in the darmuh terminal stuff mod since the game prefers to sort by the filter instead

unrelated but i wish somebody could port the clown enemy from REPO to lethal company just because it would be so good on bozoros lmfao

[quasi nest]

There's several moons that use the fun tag

Terminal stuff also has this setting, could try it perhaps

[pliant forge]

ahh i see, i must have missed that setting, my bad :O

[native badge]

I've lost over 300 credits and i've only been playing with the mod for a few days now so i guess i have like a -100% success rate lol

[sweet prawn]

#1198545579765141565 message

[vague basalt]

hello gentlemen, I come bearing a question. Is there a way to add/change the music that plays in the PlayZone interior/elevator? A mod or perhaps another method I'm unaware of?

[quasi nest]

I think it can be done with SoundAPI but not 100% sure what the process is

Alternatively could mute elevator music in the config and bring a Boombox

[sweet prawn]

Maybe matt should answer this?

Would they even know?

[tranquil parcel]

paco would know too

they work with matt for this

[sweet prawn]

Well shit

[inner wasp]

probably can be done with sound api yeah didnt thought of that

i associate soundapi with vanilla sounds

but maybe can be done with modded things too

[tranquil parcel]

absolutely

just turn this on and use what it prints for the sound replacer

i made sound replacements for piggys variety mod guns this way

[inner wasp]

Amazings

Peaknits

[sweet prawn]

oh well that works

[vague basalt]

Awesome, thanks!

[vast furnace]

was just about to look for this, thanks a ton

[sweet prawn]

I'm using this

[burnt cedar]

hey. thats beanish.

in order to properly learn the word, take beanish 101

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-shy-pallas-cat-manul-cat-gif-26196386

[buoyant sandal]

where can i take it

[burnt cedar]

Only i can provide

first, you need to flarch it.

after that, if you are splingly enough, you may be able to check it out like sklarpet

a true beanish knower loves to flean it

generic can prove this

hes quite flingly

and versed in beanish

[buoyant sandal]

thank you Beanits of infinite wisdom

[visual badge]

infinite flarch

[blissful aspen]

How do you access Bozoros with the wesley progression compat?

[rich plinth]

You go to Seichi and look at the ceiling there should be a message which says ||gullible ||

[blissful aspen]

Wesleys moons doesnt have Seichi... unless its from that one moon that does look like it

[keen osprey]

you mean like faith?
true...

[keen osprey]

[rich plinth]

See I told you its there

[keen osprey]

anything but releasing dojo 😔

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-break-throw-dumbbell-pokemon-gif-13797403777110080420

[rich plinth]

[keen osprey]

the dumbell yearns to smash the yellow creature

[quasi nest]

||There are now four tapes that unlock a moon in Galetry, but I also did not add an extra tape ||

[inner wasp]

wait what?

since when is this a thing

WHAT???????

[quasi nest]

[quasi nest]

(It's functionally not actually locked, it's just practical joke until a proper tape's made perhaps )

[unreal jackal]

||solo play wont unlock it nicely||

[inner wasp]

what why?

i wanna see this so bad

[unreal jackal]

#1198545579765141565 message

[inner wasp]

oh...

:c

[quasi nest]

[inner wasp]

we need to make a new tape

is it too hard to add?

[quasi nest]

It ain't, the 'hard' part is the video itself

[unreal jackal]

dibs on voice acting

[inner wasp]

im not that great at editing but if you need help i would be more than happy to help

[quasi nest]

Ye Matt wrote a script for one at some point, but there was also an idea I had for one that didn't involve voice acting, I just didn't really get around to finishing it before starting PlayZone stuff

[unreal jackal]

script me up, scotty

youve heard the ranges my voice can go

[sweet prawn]

You know I wonder if someone goes through enough servers and ask them to do one tiny thing at a time if someone can get like 20 people to accidentally create a whole mod.

That would be the funniest thing ever.

I mean if bigger or better can get someone a whole house with just a paperclip to start then why not this?

[quasi nest]

Forbidden technique

[sweet prawn]

Someone should try that to see if it works 🤣

[unreal jackal]

there are no "tiny things" for just 20 people in one mod

[inner wasp]

amazing!

would it have footage of bozoros, circus facility and playzone? or how would it go about

[sweet prawn]

Well I mean there sort of are, it depends on how you ask. It probably would also help if you're able to get some of the template work done yourself and then you just ask people to kind of fill in the gaps.

For example with an enemy, you can ask for one specific script behavior here, one tiny animation there, get someone else to do basic texturing job, maybe get the next person to finish the texturing, and then bam finished enemy. I am oversimplifying and it would probably take way more steps and time than that but still.

I certainly am not doing this because at that point with all that effort I'd rather just do it myself.

[unreal jackal]

i dont like this experiment.

back to bozoros tape

[inner wasp]

😮

[sweet prawn]

Agreed

[inner wasp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1159759794295545928/1336491630223425698/nk-image-edit-caption-gdn6nxus.gif

[sweet prawn]

What he said

[keen osprey]

||CURSED TAPE, INSERT CURSED TAPE 🗣️||

mods, don't touch me

[inner wasp]

i already figured it out smh

for saying that your punishment will be: 3 full quotas on trite

[quasi nest]

[inner wasp]

Also pacoito since you are the compat master

I wanted to request smth you might be interested

[quasi nest]

[inner wasp]

That being

Unique trashcan for scrap-e in playzone hehehe

[quasi nest]

Oh that do be a funni concept

PlayZone trash bins are vents though, so it might be a bit weird to see them placed randomly in the middle of tiles

[inner wasp]

Thats why i say

A unique one

Maybe the same but with somehing off like no top

To differentiate i from other trashcans

[unreal jackal]

are there unique landmines?

[quasi nest]

There ain't

There's a model made for (non-bowling alley) spike traps but I just haven't set them up

[unreal jackal]

giant woopie cushions

[inner wasp]

turrets and landmines dont look too out of place

[unreal jackal]

with little red lights

[inner wasp]

but the trashcans do

[late roost]

I know this is kind of a longshot but I found out last week I'm getting laid off from my job. I'm actively looking for work, if anyone hears anything please let me know.

[worn canopy]

I'm so sorry to hear that Matt :[

I hope you're able to find something, stay strong!!

You're a super talented guy

[late roost]

Thanks. Honestly if I had any kind of capital I would love to assemble a team of the people in this community to make some pretty cool games

[sweet prawn]

Oh my fucking God.

Why??

[late roost]

I can't really go into detail about it, it has nothing to do with me or my performance or anything like that

[sweet prawn]

That's usually even worse...

[late roost]

Such is the game industry, can't say this wasn't inevitable anyway

I've read like four or five major studios had layoffs in the past two weeks so excellent timing to have more competition in the applications

Its discouraging dawg

[sleek plover]

Oh please dont tell me it was AI

[rich plinth]

Honestly, same..

[late roost]

Nah lol

[inner wasp]

Really sad to hear

I hope you can find smth new and fast

Best of luck

[late roost]

Thank you Cheese

[lusty iron]

Sorry, meow, the Lethal Company Modding community has restricted the ability to share links to that specific platform. Please use modmail if you have any questions or this is an important link, mew!

[worn canopy]

goddammit pawsy

anyway uhm

Pictured here is a shot of a bath tub filled with balls akin to those found in so called 'ball pits'

And to match, right above the bath tub you can see a sign that with "Play place" written on the cardboard piece using what was probably a common permanent marker

[quasi nest]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-blink-blinkingcat-cute-funny-gif-8859604814399687515

[late roost]

Gotta make do with what you have

[late roost]

https://www.reddit.com/r/backrooms/s/zatq4ttL9v

This could be a moon

Imagine driving the cruiser around

[rich plinth]

That would be soooo sick

[keen osprey]

Get to work

[rich plinth]

[keen osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/cmon-gif-372569189493173744

[late roost]

Honestly it's mostly a texture job more than anything

[bleak remnant]

feels like it's actually a super simple texture job, all base colours

but you'd need to have a shader dedicated to the effect#

[short violet]

I realise this is a month ago but I got laid off at basically the exact same time (2 days after your message), big ol tech company layoffs. I feel you. Still looking for jobs, gotta love going through 4 stages of interviews for them to decide they're no longer hiring for the role

Hope you find something soon, if you haven't already :)

[burnt cedar]

what was this it got taken down

i heard backrooms

[late roost]

I still haven't had an interview yet 🙃

About ~90 applications submitted

[rich plinth]

Oof you’ll get one soon for sure!

[short violet]

Aw man I'm sorry. Up to 50 applications myself, and 40 of them have ghosted me. 2 interviews, 1 ghosted me 1 put me through all the stages just to tell me they don't want that role anymore

Tech industry is wild rn. The job i did get far with was going to be getting my foot in the door for the games industry too, a kind of mix of both

But it'll get better for sure man

[late roost]

Fingers crossed 🤞🏼

Actually really happy to have PlayZone in my portfolio and that I made it when I did

[rich plinth]

I’d definitely employ you i’d have a budget to create an indie team, not there yet unfortunately

[short violet]

For sure dude, it's awesome. What kind of roles are you after if you don't mind me asking? Like more programming side or level design or something?

[late roost]

Occasionally I'd get an idea for a game and think "now all I need is a team"

[late roost]

I've been going after environment artist and 3d artist roles, but there's not many so a lot of the time I'm applying to senior roles

[rich plinth]

I’ve got one idea for a singleplayer game and one for a multiplayer game that are pretty detailed

Would definitely not start with multiplayer

[late roost]

I've got a really solid one for single player, even started a design document a few months ago after roi2 released

[short violet]

Oh sick! Getting a senior role would be awesome. I think more roles across all levels will be opening up again soon at least. Again, best of luck dude

I'm halfway through making two games, (more than halfway maybe) but just have so much scope creep. And I suck at art. There's only so much animation and art I can do through coding lol

Not sure whether either will ever see the light of day. I love starting projects and not finishing them...

But if you do ever get the money for making a studio and need a mediocre coder, I'm right here xd

[rich plinth]

[late roost]

A senior role would be lit, I'm hoping my experience being the only 3D artist for a shipped game helps with that, that's my main thing I'm banking on

There's far too many jobs rn where they want like 3 shipped AAA titles with 10+ years of experience and offering peanuts compared to other senior roles

[short violet]

Absolutely. Honestly I think just keep up with the applications and with your experience once an actual human sees it and gets to interview you'll be grand

[short violet]

bro legit. Applied for one the other day, £25k for 5 years experience AND a degree.

I'm not getting a senior full stack role anytime soon, but cmon

[late roost]

I really appreciate the support!

[rich plinth]

Indie is definitely the way rn. I think its the golden age for indies to strive but we also cant just start working on something full job. I’ve had this discussion with a few others and we are all on the same page that it’d be sick to work on something together but at the same time we cant do that without a budget or it’d take even longer and everyone would just work on it as a hobby

[late roost]

Yeah I used to contribute to Restitched which is a hobby indie project that is still being worked on 5 years later. It's like a LittleBigPlanet successor

[rich plinth]

Im fortunate enough to have a stabil income and family as support but im also from a poor country so it sucks

[short violet]

I'd love to be able to work fulltime on gamedev. I got quite a bit done while I had a full time job, but as you say it's just worked on as a hobby. And then mixing it with more people, it's even more difficult to coordinate with jobs and shifts etc. Ended up being only 2-3 hours a week on the duo project I worked on

I think indies are 9 times out of 10 the most fun I've had playing games though. And I feel like gamedev is more accessible than ever, which has been great. Especially when you have repeated smash hits; LC, Repo, Phasmo, Peak, Silksong etc - it's a great sign imo

[late roost]

On the flip side, all it takes is one botched release to kill the studio 🫠

[rich plinth]

Yup

[short violet]

yeah

[rich plinth]

Im trying to learn as much as possible before actually starting out but at the same time I feel like I just push this idea on and on

[short violet]

very startup-y I suppose?

[worn canopy]

that's like every employer now it's fucking terrible

[short violet]

I'm not the best example - but honestly, I really really learnt the most by just starting. At least for anything programming
Imo it's sometimes best just to chuck yourself into it (and take care of yourself and burnout at the same time)

but that's just me ofc

[late roost]

If the idea is good and the vision is solid then its more likely than not one that others will enjoy

My litmus test is if I have an idea and I wake up thinking about it the next day(s) after then that means I'm serious about it and it's not a passing thing

That was PlayZone

[short violet]

I'm glad that's not just me haha

I've probably put in 60% of my features by thinking about them as I'm going to sleep and remembering the next day

[rich plinth]

Imo modding is also just a great way to get into everything related to gamedev, ofc its not the same but it definitely is useful to get organized, learn about optimizations, learn about animations, setups, models, coding in general

[short violet]

Absolutely!
Though maybe I'm just a bit stupid, but I've found mod dev harder than gamedev haha. At least from the coding side

[late roost]

Yeah it's very valuable learning how your favorite games are constructed because you can adapt into whatever pipelines, I think studios value that

[short violet]

It's also public and out there, which is really helpful

and what I'm trying to get into now

[rich plinth]

Yeah I’ll definitely try to actual do the singleplayer game idea even if alone, but I’d want to finish some projects for repo and lethal before that

[rich plinth]

Just recently finished an api-sdk combo for repo with darmuh and that taught me so much (and darmuh helped me learn too with comments)

Well “finished” still got more i’d want to add to it but in general it works very well :p

[late roost]

Still haven't played repo

I should..

[rich plinth]

Hell yeah its a really fun game imo

[heavy fractal]

Apologies if this was already asked Matt, but are you working on any other mods right now? My friends and I have been playing playzone in our pack and it feels like the most high quality interior mod for sure

[late roost]

Not at the moment, but I do want to do something again once things are less crazy for me

Would be cool to get back to Jazztronauts

[reef spire]

ive noticed a strange bug with the Playroom regarding the cruiser, it seems whenever i interact with object like the spinner bonks or the trampolines this bug happens with the cruiser

the view model gets all wacky

[quasi nest]

Hmmm I know some emote mods break sitting down on the Cruiser like that, but if it happens specifically after jumping on a trampoline it could be me doing something goofy

If you send a pack code I can take a look

[inner wasp]

Paco

Ito

Lib

[quasi nest]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-blink-blinkingcat-cute-funny-gif-8859604814399687515

[reef spire]

019973ca-3d44-2205-85fa-268a6c3de64f

[worn canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/low-tier-god-gif-16369166454621395215

[reef spire]

so, ill get hit by something to see whats up

ok

update: it was neither the trampoline or the bonk thingy but the slides

riding the three lane slide causes the car view to be bugged

[quasi nest]

Hmm yeah I do sit the player down for the slides, but stuff should be properly reset after getting off of it

Got it to happen on my testing profile, so ye it's not a mod incompatibility

Oddly enough it doesn't happen when sitting down on Bozoros' benches, which use the same script

[quasi nest]

Should be fixed in latest itolib update

[quasi nest]

[valid vigil]

[unreal jackal]

[sweet prawn]

....I wish I could hold on to the balloons.

[quasi nest]

Hold space

Or do you mean bring one with you

If it was one or two balloons you could carry them around, but the Balloon Bundle™ includes four (4) balloons

That's too much Helium to control

[unreal jackal]

balloon scrap. spawns normally, but letting go makes it fall upwards. stopped by ceiling, and if it rises too high from the point it was let go, it despawns. placing it (i.e. cabinet or sell counter) sets it on a surface properly

[quasi nest]

can pop

[unreal jackal]

[spring crypt]

Hey, I ran into this error a while ago (about 2 weeks) when testing the Playzone interior. I do not have the log from then anymore but also do not remember having seen any log entries that seemed connected to this error.
It occured multipletimes and would be accompanied by a lagspike which lasted for multiple seconds. Because I have a feeling this might be relevant, I am playing on a Linux Platform (NixOS to be specific)

[Error : Unity Log] WindowsVideoMedia error 0x80004004 while reading …sharedassets1.resource  
Context: WindowsVideoMedia::DiscardSamples ReadSample  
Track types:  
  Video Track [960 × 540], type: H264  
Error details: <Empty>

[quasi nest]

Oh

Thonk

[quasi nest]

The only video present in PlayZone is the TV at the TykeZone, but it plays the exact same things as the vanilla TV

[night quest]

Isn’t this a linux error?

[quasi nest]

Ye I was wondering if it happened with the vanilla TV as well

[night quest]

I thought I recall the ship screens throwing errors like this on Linux as well

Got ya

[spring crypt]

Interesting

I may test the TV later as well then

But I do not remember it causing such massive lag

[short violet]

Hey dude, I also run linux (6.16 arch w/ KDE on AMD CPU + AMD GPU)
I'm not sure if it's the same thing but I've had it every time on PlayZone (and occasionally other maps) where there will be frequent but irregular freezes that effect all players in the lobby (but I'm the host, so that's not too surprising) and lasts 5-15 seconds

last time it happened I took a video and saved the logs, though I don't believe I had this specific error

[spring crypt]

I see! I only had that occur with this interior specifically. All other interiors work entirely fine.
-# Back when I used Arch, like a year ago, I did not run into this issue with any interior either

[short violet]

I was just thinking about it though - while it's still possible it happened with other interiors, the freezes I can think of that weren't in PlayZone were times where we never even made it into the interior in the first place. I'll try and check the log I saved now to see what interior it was

I didn't have this issue a year or so ago either, it's only since playing again more recently after a long break it's happened. I have quite a few mods though in fairness

[spring crypt]

It only started for me when the TV room was first rendered

[spring crypt]

I do have lots of mods as well but I wouldn't know which one specifically causes the issue with this specific interior