Starlancer Moons v3.2.0 / Starlancer Warehouse v1.7.0

[thin loom]

that's exactly what I'm hoping for

[formal thorn]

I’d wager a majority of terrain related performance issues will be in grass and trees and such

[thin loom]

what I'm concerned about is people adopting it without first ensuring that they don't see a drastic regression in performance

I could believe that

[formal thorn]

The tool should probably check if the tree prefabs that are usually being instanced have the correct material and renderer settings to reflect the difference of spawning them normally

Can’t wait for moons with 400 non static mesh colliding non instanced non batched trees going brrr

[wispy nimbus]

i take prefabs straight from terrain, but ye, people must set it to static manually currently.

[formal thorn]

Again saying this knowing this is a tiny side project; Do people know that?

[wispy nimbus]

@formal thorn probably not...
the original tool also doesn't do it automatically, so it was always on the user to think about this.
i can make this tiny addition later, it's not hard, just make everything static by default

[formal thorn]

Could just talk about it in the tool post or drop debug warnings or something too

I think trees can’t be fully static for car reasons due to static mesh combining(?)

[wispy nimbus]

i have them set to static on my moons and it works 🤔

[formal thorn]

ah fair, might have misremembered

[wispy nimbus]

it destroys the gameobject, so mesh doesn't matter i suppose

[formal thorn]

I figured destroying the gameobject wouldn't correctly stop rendering the combined submesh

[tame holly]

I have an idea for an interior for the starlancerzero moon. should I post it here or in mod ideas

[final plinth]

While you're working on replacing all the trees, is there a way to remove any that clip inside the ship during landing and take-off? I remember them clipping quite a lot during take-off on Solace

[limpid portal]

I won't be making a new interior anytime soon, and since S0 accepts all interiors lore-wise, I would recommend suggesting it to the community :3

[limpid portal]

Yee, I'll trim those away for the next update

[final plinth]

Thanks!

[rich glade]

Does your Apparatus use a unique name and ID distinct from the other Apparatus items?

It might be a good idea to give it a unique name and ID so that it doesn't get deleted by the system when reloading a save.

Wesley's Grand Armory calls his App the "Toxic Apparatus"

You might be able to call yours the "Stellar Apparatus"

[slim heron]

lancer is aware. lancer is also a busy dude

[rich glade]

I wasn't sure if he was aware of it

[formal thorn]

In theory if your not changing your modpack around it shouldn't matter 🤔

[tame holly]

? what do you mean?

[formal thorn]

In theory if the order of items is the same between sessions is the same it won't care about the name of the item

the name of the item is used as a way to handle situations where it tries to restore a save

[slim heron]

custom appy disappears upon file reload

it needs new name internally and externally

[limpid portal]

Yeah once I get around to Warehouse I'll be fixing it :3

[slim heron]

^

precisely

[limpid portal]

I like this name suggestion btw!

[slim heron]

(apologies for gatekeeping XD)

[limpid portal]

Nah you're fine. It's less "busy" and more "don't want to open Unity bc I'd rather do other things"

[slim heron]

rip Cobalt, but as long as i get to keep the funni blue core, im happy

mood

[limpid portal]

Cobalt is still in the running!

[slim heron]

a vote!... when warehouse is more relevant

[tame holly]

what is cobalt?

[limpid portal]

Potential unique name for the apparatus

[tame holly]

Isn't cobalt a dark dark blue tho?

https://tenor.com/view/sasha-banks-blue-hair-blue-embarrassed-wwe-gif-15313046

like that color?

[limpid portal]

more or less, but reality is an illusion

[tame holly]

[rich glade]

Man, I feel that sometimes but for other things like tackling my backlog of Steam games.

But yeah, we should poll for the name.

Stellar vs. Cobalt

[rich glade]

Cobalt is usually kinda silvery blue

I just figured Stellar = Star = Starlancer

[limpid portal]

Death's Gambit currently owns me

[rich glade]

I checked my terminal and noticed that StarlancerZero showed up at the bottom, but I can't seem to route myself there. All it does is show me the chances of what interior it has, which usually means that I'm unable to go there...

How exactly am I supposed to "unlock" it?

[tame holly]

You are supposedly to find hidden letters that is in some galactic language but I recently looked at them and I have zero clue what they spell. I figured it would translate in english or something but it didn't. I'll give a hint though

ANEMLYY

That's a hint

[rich glade]

I'd rather someone just give me the keycode

I don't like puzzles

[teal nimbus]

@limpid portal

[limpid portal]

Known issue, will be addressed when I get around to updating :P

[lunar pumice]

Oh wow, someone else actually managed to discover that?

[gilded quail]

I discovered it a while ago (never thought of it as a big problem, so I didn't share), even stood on one of the little metal rails to keep looking out in the void longer xD

[tame holly]

any chance you can give the starlancerzero app a custom name?

it messes with shipinventory

since it has same name as normal apparatus

[limpid portal]

On the list! It's actually part of my Warehouse interior tho, not the moon

[rich glade]

Yeah, in the standalone interior, you can find the blue Apparatus, and I've already talked about giving it a name like "Stellar Apparatus"

[tame holly]

Question, so Starlancerzero chooses a random interior as it's interior. But can it choose Level1Flow3Exits and Level1FlowExtraLarge? If it can, then facility would appear triple the normal amount on the moon

[lone roost]

it doesn't choose a random interior, it uses the same weight system as every other moon. the interiors just have an equal chance. the variants of facility cannot appear on it

[tame holly]

can you explain? I'm not understanding

[lone roost]

it chooses interiors like any other moon. the interiors just have equal chances.

it doesn't have level1flow3exits or level1flowextralarge

[tame holly]

So every interior is automatically in it's pool to choose from?

[lone roost]

no. it has all three vanilla interiors in its pool with the same chances. modded interiors need to be adjusted manually to match the chance

[tame holly]

Really?? i thought starlancerzero's whole thing was how it will choose whatever interior you have installed and choose it

dang I spreaded misinformation

mb guys lol

[rich glade]

Or you could be like me and simply configure the interiors to appear on Starlancer Zero yourself

[tame holly]

That's what I'm gonna do

Starlancerzero is final endgame moon in my modpack

[rich glade]

I ALWAYS configure the interiors and moons myself

I plan on making Tartarus the primary interior there

[tame holly]

In my pack all interiors have an equal chance to spawn. I also configured all enemies to have an equal chance to spawn. But enemies that have unique sub categories like the waterwalker thumper from chizra temple I divide the weight accordingly so the type of monster will have the same chance but you will see all varietions.

Not only that

I have all scrap to spawn equally on the moon

So high price items will be as presetn as low price

That'll help it be higher scrap value wise then cosmocos and conviction/assertion

Despite those moons having higher scrap value maxes

I also configuring all outside enemies to be same chance

Will slightly be diff for giants because of how they work

So in short

Everything will be present will an equal chance

It will truly be endgame

First sentence I said all interiors with the same chance/tthat's only on Starlancerzero

[tame holly]

Hey, it's been a minute. Was wondering if there is any chance the blue apparatus could have a name change?

[rich glade]

Relax. He'll get to it when he gets to it.

[tame holly]

Bro? I just asked once

Well it has been about 10 days mb

I didn't realize that

[rich glade]

And you have a wall of text just above your last question

[tame holly]

that didn't have anything to do with app tho

That was me bragging about my modpack 😭 😂

[rich glade]

Still, you have the tendency to be a chatterbox at the edge of your seat

Not as "chill" as your name suggests

[tame holly]

I said mb, no reason to drag it on.

[limpid portal]

Gonna try to finish up the Terrain->Mesh update for the moons today (finally placed all of Solace's foliage 😭 ), then I'll check on the Warehouse prefabs and see how much work needs to be done to update that

[steady carbon]

Yay ^^

[limpid portal]

This is such a tedious update lmao

[steady carbon]

Also I hate to bring it up but we got a lot of "SetDestination" errors from EnemyEscape last night 🤔

Maybe cus of the V69 update?

[limpid portal]

; - ;

[steady carbon]

Wasn't too descriptive but I saw it logging a lot

[steady carbon]

Lmao hopefully it's just you need to rebuild the mod on V69 tbh, a few mods have had to do that and it's fixed their errors

I would imagine it's just that EnemyEscape needs that

[limpid portal]

That seems more like an enemy spawned in a bad spot 🤔

SEE is where that trace called SetDestination, but in theory that would happen without SEE as well in whatever circumstances caused it

Cuz I'm not seeing anything in the diffs related to EnemyAI

[steady carbon]

That's very possible

[limpid portal]

TerraMesh has dropped Solace down to 12k vertices, but I have to do some manual repositioning of foliage due to the terrain deformation farther from the intended playable area

[steady carbon]

You've got this bud, I hope to see you finally be able to update the moons today but I know that might be a far stretch depending on how much you have to do

[limpid portal]

I think I'm on track to release the moon update today, but Warehouse will likely have to wait just a lil longer. Solace, though I adore it, has been a nightmare of tedium to update xD

[knotty marten]

Do you use Jacob's lost enemy fix

[lunar pumice]

(He wakes up in cold sweats thinking about lighthouse collision)

[limpid portal]

I'm practically falling asleep nudging the grass around so it's not floating 😭

[limpid portal]

Okay yeah, I'm gonna have to finish this tomorrow. I'm actually falling asleep at my desk 🤭
TerraMesh ended up deforming the peninsula enough such that a lot of the foliage ended up floating, and I got about half of it repositioned

[steady carbon]

Take your time bud ^^

[steady carbon]

@limpid portal Did you make any progress yesterday? ;o

[limpid portal]

Nuu, I wasn't thinking at the time but yesterday and today are days off with my fiancee ^^;

[steady carbon]

Didn't even know you were engaged XD

[limpid portal]

Yee!

[lunar pumice]

ooo congrats!!

[limpid portal]

Ty ☺️

[steady carbon]

How long has this been a thing for?

:3

[limpid portal]

Since May, we wanted a particular day so we're waiting for next year to actually do the marriage :3

[slim heron]

why wait?

https://tenor.com/view/sign-lights-las-vegas-nevada-welcome-gif-5078098

||(/j)||

[lunar pumice]

Is your honeymoon going to be on Solace?

[limpid portal]

We'd def be petting the spore lizards

[rich glade]

Imagine if Solace could stay sunset forever.

That would make an amazing Honeymoon.

[formal thorn]

@limpid portal dumb question but how is solace's sand actually getting to be like yellow

trying to sample your terrain and it's layers and all of it's textures seem so alpha heavy and lacking in colour? confused on how it gets to the end result 😭

[limpid portal]

I'm just using the texture painting feature in the terrain inspector 😅

So it probably is alpha heavy to allow the terrain to blend everything

[tame holly]

is starlancerzero supposed to be silent? I thought it had ambience at one point but it's so quiet

[limpid portal]

Yeah, there's supposed to be ambience, I'll check it for the next update, thanks!

[serene sand]

was gonna be like "we need a moon with a mf lighthouse" and i forgot this one had it

gotta reinstall this mod

it should turn on and start spinning at night !

[plain crow]

Is the starlancer warehouse bugged? I heard there was a problem with turrets shooting through walls or something some months ago

[limpid portal]

There's one tile where a turret can shoot through the corner for some reason, but it's not necessarily game-breaking. I'll probably remove the potential for turrets to spawn in that tile if I can't find anything other solution

[lunar pumice]

It’s also super rare

To the point where its essentially a non-issue unless you’re having some kind of competitive pack/profile

[dark spade]

so not sure where to ask this but i have been having problems when trying to test my moon

i got these errors when testing it in the actual game rather than the editor

testing it in the error would get null exception errors related to the ship wind trigger

[bright eagle]

is starlancer zero unroutable for anybody else lol

I type in starlancer it applies a filter

[knotty marten]

not the routing code

[bright eagle]

I type in starlancerzero it shows the interior chances

[bright eagle]

ive used that before I swear

then what is it

[knotty marten]

the routing code has never been that

[bright eagle]

I swear ive done that before though

back when I used it a while ago

[knotty marten]

idk if anyone still cares about keeping the routing code secret but you can find the hints for it in starlancers other moons

[bright eagle]

ive gone to it several times using its full name i swear im not crazy

ive just used unhide hidden moons mod and used that

😭

I never knew anything about needing some routing codes and ive gone to it a bunch

maybe i AM crazy

ohhh

MoonUnlockUnhide lets you route to it with starlancerzero

and I was not using it

[lone roost]

go learn the actual route....

[silent tulip]

for those who want to learn the story/earn the right to route there, there is another word that routes to the moon.
otherwise, as you said, use moonunlockhide.. which allows you to use the actual name.

[limpid portal]

Exciting news! I've finished replacing Solace's foliage following the Terramesh-ing and then combined all of the foliage into one mesh, and not only is there a HUGE performance boost, but because it's a combined mesh all of the foliage renders at once making it lush at any distance!

The downside, however, is that I guess because of how actual terrain works with tree and detail meshes it's a lot more compact than separate meshes for everything, so currently the jump is from 130mb (original) to 330 (newly meshed), but I'm trying to see if I can fix that

Testing confirms that the foliage is the culprit. Not sure how to fix it besides just lowering the amount of foliage, but I really like how it looks 🥲

[royal cape]

Lots and lots of fps

[limpid portal]

When I finally got that boost I felt so happy lol

I feel like ~330mb for 4 moons is reasonable, but I was proud of having 4 in 130mb ; w ;

[royal cape]

well my moons pack weighs over 1gb already, more than the game itself lol

[limpid portal]

Foggy trees and grass :D

[bright eagle]

if your back to working on your stuff auralis needs a spawn curve adjustment ong
I had so much shit up my ass within 2 seconds

[limpid portal]

Describe "so much" lol

[bright eagle]

it was a bit ago so I cant actually give you the specifics but went on auralis and over the course of the 3 days got pretty whaled by the spawns

i can hop on it again soon and see if I have the same problem ig

[limpid portal]

It is meant to be an early-spawner, but if there's anything actually unintentional going on I can adjust

[wispy nimbus]

if you've copied the trees using terra mesh it should reuse the corresponding tree prefabs, so no data would be duplicated. this is quite a drastic jump D:

[limpid portal]

A large chunk of that is the grass on Solace, but I guess there's something going on behind-the-scenes where terrains are more compressed or something.

[wispy nimbus]

idk it also just renders each prefab stored in terrain data

[wispy nimbus]

how did you figure this out?

[limpid portal]

Removed the foliage from the scene, saved, and checked the scene file size

Without the foliage the scene file itself is 70mb, but with the foliage it's 600mb lol

[wispy nimbus]

ok, just to be clear: foliage is what, exactly? trees or terrain detail (grass) or both?

[limpid portal]

terrain detail

[wispy nimbus]

ah ok so it's not from terra mesh

but still

[limpid portal]

Yeah, but it'll be alright

[wispy nimbus]

have you checked what's being packed into the bundle? it really seems like each piece of grass is packed as a separate object

instead of a single prefab

[limpid portal]

I've since made a combined mesh out of the grass, which shot the fps from ~150 to ~240

[wispy nimbus]

btw you also don't need to combine grass into one mesh by youself

you just need to mark everything as static and it will be done during bundling

[limpid portal]

I had it marked as static when I was getting the lower fps

After I used a tool, that's when the fps shot up

[wispy nimbus]

interesting
i was just checking some other custom moons for and can confirm the mesh gets combined on bundling, but curious why would it not give the same performance...

maybe materials weren't gpu instanced?

[limpid portal]

They were ; w ;

I double checked all the usual performance culprits before I tried combining

[wispy nimbus]

ok, so the size increase does come from duplication during mesh combining it seems
did you use this to combine or something else?

https://docs.unity3d.com/2022.3/Documentation/ScriptReference/Mesh.CombineMeshes.html

[limpid portal]

I just used this
https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/modeling/basic-mesh-combiner-easy-scene-mesh-merge-more-252289

[wispy nimbus]

ok yeah it seems to use that function, strange
are you able to get the mesh compressed?

[limpid portal]

No, it doesn't seem to be accessible like imported meshes

[wispy nimbus]

If you want you can try exporting and reimporting it with unity's official fbx exporter, then there will be a usual mesh options dialog window in the inspector

[limpid portal]

Oh neat, I might try that

[limpid portal]

@wispy nimbus that worked great! I haven't checked bundle size yet, but the scene file itself is now 93mb instead of 652mb

[wispy nimbus]

omfg that's awesome

[limpid portal]

330mb bundle down to 279mb, so still an increase, but way better

[thin loom]

did you test to see what performance was like with a low number of tree prefabs supporting GPU instancing?

alternatively, if that isn't as performant, you could place all your trees under one object and then use a plugin to static batch them at runtime (after navmesh baking)

oh not trees, I guess you mentioned, but question still stands

I guess you mentioned that you tried instancing, it does seem surprising if that doesn't give a boost, but static batching at runtime would have you the original file size and hopefully the same good performance as well

when you tried instancing, was that only after you had static batched them? GPU instancing and static batching are essentially mutually exclusive, you don't want to run both at the same time on the same object type

[formal thorn]

You can’t static batch them unless im tripping

Cuz of cruisers

[thin loom]

uhh I think that should be fine, at least depending on what the cruiser does

but I think audio knight was talking about foliage so I didn't think it blocks the cruiser

I just assumed at first that it was the trees lol

[limpid portal]

I was unaware those were mutually exclusive, so I'll take a look next time I boot up Unity.
But yea I'm just talking about grass at this point

[ember lagoon]

showcased the moons https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBuGXqLymvSeoO1bUVettqZeJFUH7bpsK

[limpid portal]

Thank you! ✨

[steady carbon]

I would have waited for his update that's coming soon lol

[ember lagoon]

oh no

how different is it gonna be 😭

tbh unless he ads more moons it wont take too long to redo if I have too

[steady carbon]

Solace is getting a big overhaul

Otherwise I don't think it's changing too much

@limpid portal how close are we btw? :3

[ember lagoon]

redoing solace wont be hard, not a huge moon(unless hes made it way bigger lol)

id pump out way more of these vids if my software didnt take so long to render

[limpid portal]

I'll probably work on it some more this evening!

[limpid portal]

I wouldn't worry about it. The grass will look a little different, but largely it's a performance overhaul. The terrain is now mesh, the trees should be cruiser-destructable, and the fps shot up by a significant amount on my already-powerful rig

[limpid portal]

When you say "GPU instancing", are you referring to the materials? Or is there some other instancing I'm unaware of?

[thin loom]

it definitely involves the material setting, but I am not entirely sure that there's not another flag that's required

[limpid portal]

Well I tried it both ways and it didn't seem to make a difference, so I'll just stick with what I've been doing, and if I determine a way to make it smaller in the future I'll address it further

[thin loom]

it should be possible to get the best of both worlds if you create a component to do runtime static batching on an object containing all the foliage that needs to be batched

(in theory it should be the best of both worlds anyway)

it's very easy to test if you have a build with them individually rendered

https://docs.unity3d.com/2021.3/Documentation/ScriptReference/StaticBatchingUtility.Combine.html

[limpid portal]

I've got the mass-group of foliage saved as a prefab for safekeeping, which gets the file size slightly smaller if I use it instead of the combined mesh, but waaaay less performant
I'll give it a peek

[thin loom]

probably good to use UnityExplorer to do it after loading the moon to get the most accurate before/after you can

[limpid portal]

According to that, it should already be static batching just from the static settings. I'm unsure how I'd ever get back down to the amount I had prior (130 vs 280), it really seems like detail meshes in terrain take up way less space than a normal mesh. I just want everything to be graphically consistent with the rest of the game 😭

Even with gpu instancing ticked, static batching takes priority

[formal thorn]

you can actually test this by assetripping your own bundle pretty sure

[formal thorn]

depends on your unity project settings but if your nomnom pilled it should be right

[thin loom]

wait you mean your perf fix was to manually merge the meshes into one object rather than static batching?

[limpid portal]

Correct

[thin loom]

hum'

interesting

maybe we should profile before/after

[limpid portal]

The size increase is unfortunate, but I can't argue with the results lol

[formal thorn]

i just cant imagine how unity would prefer that

[limpid portal]

Original Terrain/Detail Meshes: 140fps + 130mb
Meshed Terrain/Individual Meshes: 145fps + 315mb
Meshed Terrain/Combined Mesh: 220fps + 279mb

[thin loom]

i wonder if it's culling them individually still with batching

[formal thorn]

nitpicking your phrasing a little but the issue with this though is its individual vs combined MeshRenderer's

the mesh shouldn't be individual because it's reference based, no?

[limpid portal]

Correct lol, I'm referring to multiple GOs vs a singular GO

[formal thorn]

is the act of culling them all the problem?

whats even the vert count on this bad boy

[limpid portal]

yes

[formal thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-turn-down-for-what-silly-cat-cat-cat-edit-silly-cat-edit-gif-631194486250466532

[formal thorn]

awful

[limpid portal]

This feels like a "bee's wings defy all known laws of aviation"-type deal

[formal thorn]

i dont know how much it matters but you wouldn't need read/write on this right

whats the vert count on the individual?

[thin loom]

tbh I don't think tri count matters so much as object count here

[formal thorn]

im asking about tri count because im curious if the act of trying to cull these is even worth doing

[thin loom]

a frame analysis could help determine whether the number of draw calls is at fault, but I tend to think it's more likely to be something with each object before being pushed to the GPu taking up all the time

[formal thorn]

im probably way off but im curious what aspect of this would be increasing performance by so much

[limpid portal]

varies from 24-49

[thin loom]

good god

so you have thousands of objects

[limpid portal]

Have you been to Solace? xD

[thin loom]

I wonder if your instancing was even working

uhh

maybe?

idr lol

[formal thorn]

out of curiousity does lc do any iterating on foliage meshrenderers

[limpid portal]

idk if it would properly perceive them as foliage

[thin loom]

not that I know of, but I haven't looked for that specifically

[formal thorn]

i remember there was a memory leak

not that the leak is the problem but im wondering if it could at all be trying to look at all of them

[thin loom]

oh yeah solace is the one I was thinking of

[formal thorn]

what are they tagged as @limpid portal

[thin loom]

well anyway I would tend to say it would be very interesting to take a profile with the separate objects static-batched and then another with the combined mesh object, then diff them with the profile analyzer

[formal thorn]

if they are tagged what they "should be" you'd probably be fucked by this

[limpid portal]

Grass on the Room layer

[formal thorn]

ok your safe from that then

[limpid portal]

That code mentions "foliagedetail", wouldn't that be standard Unity terrain stuff?

[thin loom]

it's all there

[formal thorn]

its zeekerss own homebrew code

[limpid portal]

oh

[formal thorn]

if it was tagged as bush it would be doing distance checks and stuff on all of your renderers per frame

😭

[thin loom]

tbf it's one per frame

[limpid portal]

I never even saw the "bush" tag lmao

[thin loom]

not a big deal except for the single-user crap

this probably takes all of 5 microseconds

[limpid portal]

I could send them to you if you want

[formal thorn]

oh i misread that code hard apologies

are you using any reflection probes

[thin loom]

that sounds fine to me yea

maybe I can glean something

[limpid portal]

Not that I know of, I don't know much about Unity lighting stuff

[formal thorn]

can your editor run your scenes correctly

[limpid portal]

Yeah. I believe all of my renderers are set to use lightmaps, I seem to recall having probes set caused performance issues

[thin loom]

this might also be a prereq of doing GPU instancing for your materials since I'm guessing they use Lit

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/SRPBatcher-Incompatible.html

[formal thorn]

if you go in game view in play mode im curious what the vibe is on the little performance window you can open near gizmos

obviously profiling is better but i wonder what the batch count on your non manually combined meshes is

[thin loom]

I would be interested to also try a build that is forced to use instancing via the material property block technique there

[formal thorn]

urp?

[thin loom]

srp

srp is everything

[formal thorn]

i def dont think it was batching correctly

[thin loom]

this would also be interesting yeah

[formal thorn]

something aint right

[thin loom]

it might be trying to batch them in a "smart" way and making smaller batches for culling

who knows

[limpid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-it-just-works-bethesda-this-all-just-works-gif-20598651

[thin loom]

I would honestly be interested to just be in vc and see a screenshare of the project to look at what's goin on there, it's a very intriguing test case

[formal thorn]

audio knight does cool stuff and i hate them for it

hits DOSCOMPANY like a truck

[thin loom]

oh yea I bet

[limpid portal]

What's DOSCOMPANY?

[formal thorn]

#1321242208061620318

Removes HDRP pipeline and converts everything into an Unlit shader

I spent like 6 hours using your moons as a stress test to make my systems that analyse what the “right” colour should be

[limpid portal]

That's awesome!

[formal thorn]

An improvement but still very off 😭

[limpid portal]

lmao I wonder if switching to a mesh terrain will make it easier on you?

[formal thorn]

Probably, Voxx actually kindly abstracted his runtime way of doing it into a api so i could do it in DOSCOMPANY on moons who haven’t already

I made a whole editor tool to debug ur shit 😭

Was interesting tho

[limpid portal]

I'm honored 🤭

[wispy nimbus]

gonna make meshification async in the next release
(at least i'll try, it's hell with unity's restrictions)

[formal thorn]

I wish you the best lol

In the future future i would love a way to load up all the scenes in the game at startup without breaking the entire game for stuff like that (and other things)

[wispy nimbus]

you mean like pre-meshify every single moon in the background even before landing?

[formal thorn]

ye

i would want to do it for getting references early as possible but gives opportunity for a bunch of pre-processing stuff

[wispy nimbus]

ooof, idk about that, but i thought about caching already meshified stuff

ah got it

[formal thorn]

how big are these terrain meshes

[wispy nimbus]

~1 MB for one vanilla sized terrain and adaptive mesh

[formal thorn]

i wonder if you can cache to like file

[wispy nimbus]

can unity load raw assets from files? idk about any of that stuff lol

[thin loom]

aren't meshes accessible pretty much as plain old byte arrays?

could just write that to a file if so

[wispy nimbus]

truue, i guess i could just save mesh data itself... might be a problem with validating if the terrain on the moon changed since the last time 🤔

[thin loom]

hmm

should be possible to hash the heightmap or something no?

just make your own file format for this :^)

or if you wanna be less epic cool and make a manifest

[wispy nimbus]

@thin loom btw, do you by chance know how to make a camera render only depth? Is it even possible in hdrp, I have a couple of them for VFX collision checking, and even tho the resolution is pretty small (128x128) I guess it would impact performance quite a lot still?

[thin loom]

you'd have to give it a custom render

and then figure out how to issue the commands to draw what you want into depth only

[wispy nimbus]

omg, that sounds like a hefty task. Do you know if custom passes will skip rendering steps if I put the earliest possible injection or it will actually add on top of normal rendering?

[thin loom]

custom passes are in addition

custom render is the only way I know to remove functionality

[wispy nimbus]

thought so, sad 😢

thx for the answer

[thin loom]

in case it's useful, I have this https://github.com/Zaggy1024/LC_OpenBodyCams/commit/90d19ae4c39efa3e9f7b0b7ef6c84127a277b0fb#diff-e4681b03c388f25dc42502c69119c633831d5c8d1019b389cee1b37f48530366

it has been superceded but it worked well enough for your use case I think, and some of the code in TransparentRenderTexturePass may apply for a custom render too

[radiant ingot]

(Spoilers for the hidden moon)

Is this a Hellraiser reference

[ember lagoon]

has a similar vibe

[limpid portal]

Despite my love for horror, I've never seen Hellraiser 🤭

[limpid portal]

Finally figured out tree-breaking. Had to put the root GameObject on the Terrain layer instead of Room

[ember lagoon]

Just wondering, are you mostly doing upkeep updates or are there ever plans for any more moons(I love your stuff and would love to see it but if not thats cool too)

[formal thorn]

oh btw @limpid portal ur stuff already works fine but lll now has a thing in extendedlevel to override what word is used for level stuffs

im a little late on that 😭

[limpid portal]

Thank you for the kind words ✨ I won't rule out new content, but at the moment it's just upkeep/implementing new vanilla content as it comes.

[limpid portal]

So now I can avoid doing the code solution to give StarlancerZero a separate route word?

[ember lagoon]

Nice

[formal thorn]

in theory ye

[ember lagoon]

would a cfg to turn that off be possible if that gets added

[limpid portal]

Maybe. But for the moment, secret moon is secret :3c

[ember lagoon]

noooooo, (I unhide them all)

lol

[limpid portal]

Disabled the code in my moons plugin and attempted to use "Override Route Noun" in the StarlancerZero ExtendedLevel to no effect. Is there some other thing I need to toggle?

[limpid portal]

I was unaware that the whole "symbols now display their actual letter" thing wasn't working, so I've got it working now. Image spoilered for those who haven't found them yet

This should make the hidden moon aspect more approachable to new peeps

[ember lagoon]

Who even needs route words

[plucky spindle]

2nd is such a vibe

[lunar pumice]

Woah that’s cool

[mystic radish]

mod name?

[ember lagoon]

Darmuh's terminal stuff, this is off by default and it has A LOT of othe stuff you gonna wanna go thru in the cfg

[mystic radish]

Thanks. I knew that mod but didn't know that was a feature.

[limpid portal]

Starlancer Moons v3.0.0

• StarlancerMoons v3.0.0
  • Updated to v69.
  • Massive performance upgrade on Solace, moderate performance upgrade on Auralis and [REDACTED], small performance upgrade on Triskelion.
    • Unfortunately, these performance boosts come at a cost. Due to converting the terrains to mesh and hand-placing the foliage on Solace, this mod is now approximately 280mb.
    • Counterintuitively, Solace is now even more lush, in spite of the huge increase in FPS over the previous versions.
      • Growth
  • Solace's trees and grass now correctly receive fog.
  • Moved some trees on Solace to reduce clipping during liftoff.
  • Fixed the symbols that lead to [REDACTED] not actually displaying the text like I intended. Apologies.
  • Rechecked the location and validity of off-mesh links on each moon.
    • Also added off-mesh jump links to the ice floes on Auralis.
  • Made sure none of the ambient noises were missing.

Rather than smack my head into the wall trying to test everything, lemme know if any errors/unexpected behavior pops up!

[plucky spindle]

LES GOOOO

[glossy plover]

centuries i've waited for this moment

[formal thorn]

@limpid portal are you github pilled?

Super curious about the bush stuff

[steady carbon]

@limpid portal let's goooo bud 🔥 at least your moons are compatible with the ram saver stuff :3

So the increase in size won't matter as much 🙂

[limpid portal]

I need to properly set up a repo, just gotta exclude the LC assets and asset store stuff. I'll try to set it up this week

[limpid portal]

Yee, there's a small loading delay from the size, but I definitely think the performance improvement is worth it

[formal thorn]

well

[steady carbon]

Here's hoping the issues with your interior are simple fixes that won't take you anywhere near as long 🙏

[limpid portal]

Should be, after I re-link all the scripts in Unity 🤭

[steady carbon]

I do love when we get that rare tile and someone goes "I got shot through a wall"

And I'm like "Ahaha welp" xD

[glossy plover]

good news, triskelion is absolutely LOVELY

bad news

https://medal.tv/games/lethal-company/clips/jwzuQbpUCThQQW3O8?invite=cr-MSxaRnUsMjE3NTIwOTU1LA

i'm sentenced to 1000 years on solace

https://medal.tv/games/lethal-company/clips/jwz8WepzXfvNy5_fH?invite=cr-MSxKdDgsMjE3NTIwOTU1LA

this is triskelion for comparison

logs aren't getting spammed, so it's (probably) something that has to do with the moon?

[limpid portal]

[glossy plover]

saying probably because i have a pretty hefty modpack currently (127 mods), so it very well could be something else

[limpid portal]

Could you give it a clean test for me?

[glossy plover]

but if it was then i'd feel like it'd affect triskelion too

yeah lemme do that real quick

[bright eagle]

127 is not really hefty tbh

[glossy plover]

is for me

i usually don't go over 100

this is the first time i am

oohhhhh

kayyyy??

haven't had this happen before

and i've had the LLL update on the other modpack

oop there we go

time to test

[pulsar otter]

Thonk

[limpid portal]

Weird that you haven't had that yet, but that's been my experience with the new LLL update since Solace's update made the bundle so much beefier

[glossy plover]

yeah it's working fine on a clean pack

[formal thorn]

Do you have lethal constellations

[glossy plover]

nope

[formal thorn]

Anything route related

[glossy plover]

hm

no i don't believe so

do you have other examples?

[limpid portal]

That's good at least, but I'm not sure what's tanking the fps there then

[glossy plover]

bc the only thing i have that really changes stuff like that is BrutalCompanyMinusExtraReborn, which does the multiplier stuff in the terminal

which i've turned off since it's kinda annoying to look at

besides that and using the LLL config to change moon prices, i don't have anything that effects that sort of stuff

[limpid portal]

Well if you figure out what's causing it, please let me know and if there's anything to be done on my end I'll look into it

[glossy plover]

yeah i'll start with testing right away

[slim blade]

Heyo AudioKnight! Glad to see you updating your moons, saw that they are 200 something mb which seems a bit excessive, if you need help with optimizing em, hit me up ^^ Would gladly help

[formal thorn]

It’s a semi niche issue

Their foliage mesh spread across the moon wasn’t batching or instancing correctly which was causing super notable performance concerns. New update had every usage of it baked into one massive mesh

Def can be solved

[half junco]

some reason the moon (solace, havent tested the others, but it doesnt affect vanilla moons) is causing a unity crash on my pack

01948253-9267-e095-9e54-ba07e82081cc

[steady carbon]

Works okay for me, check your log for any errors or stack traces

I will say this needs fixed though

@jovial ledge Maybe you can provide some insight on why Solace might cause JLL to error?

[half junco]

0 errors

caused it again

seems to only happen sometimes

[jovial ledge]

I'm aware of and have already fixed this bug a while ago but it doesn't cause any problems or break anything in game so I didn't bother posting a hotfix.

you can just ignore it

[half junco]

thought it was weather related but no, it crashes on clear too

[steady carbon]

Ah I've noticed it's only on specific moons so I always figured it was a moon issue

lol

[steady carbon]

Can you post your crash dump and the log file from the crash dump in here?

Maybe someone like @thin loom or @sterile summit can help find the issue if you post those

[half junco]

I’m dumb, where the dump file

[steady carbon]

Under your Appdata Local Temp directory, go to ZeekersRBLX > Lethal Company > Crashes and find the most recent one

it should contain a crash.dmp and Player.log

[half junco]

doesnt exist

only mention of zeekers is in locallow and just has this

[steady carbon]

Not Locallow

Local

then Temp

[half junco]

my bad, brain skipped over the temp part

[half junco]

i have a "few" more if they wish to have

i seem to have narrowed it down to either weathertweaks or lethalelements (the beta)

despite it working fine on its own

pain

[steady carbon]

@wispy nimbus Is that update for LethalElements still coming that's gonna fix those issues with Snowfall and Blizzard?

[wispy nimbus]

They said it happens on clear weather too, so this is not from me. But ye it's coming

[glossy plover]

okay i have to narrow it down more, since i don't know if it's a conjunction of mods, but

disabling these 4 mods fixes the lag

which is

abnormal

to say the least

i've gone from 127 to 83 mods though, so this should be good

[glossy plover]

wha

okay i'm confused now

bc now it's not happening

[silent tulip]

i also get the unity crashes, weather tweaks is one of the 24ish mods i downgraded, which resolved the issue, i dont use lethal elements.

[thin loom]

interesting, the stack trace appears to be within navmesh generation

if this crash is consistent, do you think you could check if it goes away by only removing PathfindingLagFix beta?

[half junco]

Hmm, true, ill try that

[thin loom]

I've never seen it crash within navmesh generation due to my off main thread pathfinding, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for it to since nothing I do can cause a race condition to occur in the main thread afaik, but it does seem like an odd coincidence

[half junco]

Still crashed

[silent tulip]

downgrade weather tweaks to 1.0.0 and weather registry to 0.3.15, not saying that will resolve it, but those are the versions im using (while you seem to be using the latest, which i was using when i got the crashes)

oh i should also add, i was only using v2.4.0 of starlancer moons, havent updated to the latest version yet, but, i was getting the crashes before that update dropped.

[half junco]

Still crashed

Ill try 2.4.0 just for a sanity check

[thin loom]

I wonder if the tool generating the terrain mesh created some invalid geometry or something

thanks for checking PathfindingLagFix though

[half junco]

Expectedly a crash

[thin loom]

oh is 2.4.0 pre meshifying?

[silent tulip]

rip x.x incase it helps, these are the mods that ive not got on the latest versions atm and getting no crashes

the screenshot containing LLL, and the one containing dungeon generation plus.. are the "newer updated" ones, which, updated AFTER i started getting crashes, i just didnt update anything since the crashes started last week which led to me downgrading some mods in the first screenshot.

oh wait, some of the ones in the 2nd and 3rd screenshot are also updated before the crashing started, they mus have updated again.

[limpid portal]

3.0.0 was the mesh-ening

Not at my PC atm, but thank you to everyone who's putting their heads together to help

[half junco]

Weirdly its not any other custom moon (that I use)

Wait

2.3.3 worked

(Starlancer moons)

[silent tulip]

what version of LLL you using?

[half junco]

Latest

[silent tulip]

try 1.3.13

[half junco]

With updated moons?

[silent tulip]

i had to downgrade that too, but i havent tried latest yet.

1.3.13 LLL with 2.4.0 starlancer moons works for me

see if it does for you

[half junco]

Alright, gonna try this again first though

[half junco]

Ok yeah was a fluke

[half junco]

Crash

[limpid portal]

Have you tried 3.0 with no other mods present?

Since you crashed with 2.4 I'm thinking this must be a mod conflict

[half junco]

It is a mod conflict

It works fine with dependencies only

[limpid portal]

Bizarre, but always happy when it's not just a me issue 🤭

[half junco]

Double checked, loaded just fine on its own

[wispy nimbus]

i just tried myself, and i have insanely low fps on solace which returns to normal as soon as i disable the "Foliage_combined" object

but i have no crashes or anything like that

ok, i found the reason. it seems to be worse during blizzard weather because it uses a camera for collision detection, and i assume because the grass mesh is huge and uses only 2 submeshes, it cannot cull it properly so the entire thing is always rendered regardless of how much of it is the field of view. this is not a bug on my side, this also occurs when you go inside the ship and the map radar camera starts rendering, i get an immediate dip in fps

also this doesn't happen on 2.4.0, just checked

[glossy plover]

oh wait is that it?

dude i’ve been testing solace for like the past couple hours and getting like nowhere

it’s like on and off with the moon being a power point

so it’s been difficult to say the least to find the cause

[wispy nimbus]

yes, i assume if you have something like openbodycams it would also be present (although if Zaggy implemented some fancy custom culling it may not be the case)

[half junco]

I don’t use openbodycams

I do however use the cams given in https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1327068908129095700

[wispy nimbus]

any camera that has even a single grass bush in it's field of view will cause this
i'm not sure why would this cause a crash though, maybe it just slows down everything overall and causes it indirectly? i myself haven't experienced this yet

[half junco]

Weird

It works fine with just the moon and lethal elements however

[limpid portal]

I could remove it from the room layer, then the map radar wouldn't render it

Idk what to do about the blizzard weather thing though, I'm still at a loss as to why the instancing stuff wasn't working properly

[wispy nimbus]

you need to do what Batby sent here

one sec

https://docs.unity3d.com/6000.0/Documentation/Manual/SRPBatcher-Incompatible.html this

[limpid portal]

hm, I'll try some things

[steady carbon]

So I guess we don't visit Solace today? 🤔

[glossy plover]

it's weird that it happens on and off

https://medal.tv/games/lethal-company/clips/jwTcLlZJv7OTlBpG-?invite=cr-MSxGUlMsMjE3NTIwOTU1LA

but yeah voxx hit it on the head there

it is the foliage

[steady carbon]

[wispy nimbus]

i assume this is really only visible on gpu bound devices, that's why for some people it seems fine

[thin loom]

would be interested to know which GPUs in particular are having these issues

it may be vendor-specific

[wispy nimbus]

mine is one of intel gpus, specifically:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/232141/intel-core-i71365u-processor-12m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz/specifications.html

[bright eagle]

testing myself it seems fine for me

[knotty marten]

I have an rtx 40 series gpu, I can test it later and see if it lags for me

I wouldn't be surprised for intels integrated graphics being slow anyway

[bright eagle]

it feels slightly worse on performance but that might be placebo

downpatching to test

no fps is higher post patch actually

placebo is a wild thing honestly

[thin loom]

it may very well be that some integrated graphics chips are lacking a feature that Unity uses to make the mesh draw much faster

actually, I suppose it could be to do with available VRAM

I wonder

[formal thorn]

I know a lot of earlier igpu’s cant run the game period

[wispy nimbus]

my second laptop doesn't have volumetric fog

[ember lagoon]

you sure these were causing issues

[glossy plover]

^

i can say that im sure

that im not sure those are causing issues

[knotty marten]

solace throws this error when landing on it with snowfall weather from lethal elements beta

repro'd on a fresh profile using only elements beta, starlancermoons, and imperium

causes a full game crash

full log just in case

also didn't know whether to put it here or in elements thread

[ember lagoon]

Ok so weird issue, when first landing there is extreme lag bug tabing ou then rentering the tab it stopped

[limpid portal]

That's likely due to the puffer being an inside enemy normally, but there's nothing I can about that without just removing my doggos from Solace

[limpid portal]

Laggy Solace is fixed via alt-tabbing?

[ember lagoon]

at least it SEEMED too

but it could have smoothed out when I was alt tabbed

but after that it never lagged again

[limpid portal]

Lemme know if you find any consistency there

[knotty marten]

oh yeah i forgot to mention

when i did another test where game didnt crash, solace foliage didn't lag on my end

i'm assuming its because of 4070 super having more power than average

idk what turtles gpu is so i can't determine if its on lower end or not

[ember lagoon]

its servicable

plan to upgrade but hasnt steered me too wrong

[knotty marten]

not entirely familiar with amd's lineup but the rx 6700 should be a decent mid tier gpu

way better than my old 1660 ti

[ember lagoon]

yeye def a mid tier

ill prob upgrade to their new one thats said to be slightly better than a 4070

for about 600 thats not bad

ah wait nvm the 5070 is about the same

imma get that instead

[knotty marten]

rx 7900?

[ember lagoon]

im not super familiar with them haha

[knotty marten]

fair i mostly keep up with nvidia

i wouldn't recommend 50 series right away

[ember lagoon]

I dont keep up much in general my friend built this for me lol, I just get yt tech channels poping up in shorts

any particular reason?

[knotty marten]

performance increase from 40 -> 50 isn't going to be significant like from 30 -> 40

and it will use a lot more power

and they will be expensive like usual

[ember lagoon]

I gotta check what level is mine ranked in comparison haha

[knotty marten]

50 series really is just the card to get dlss 4 going

[ember lagoon]

cause for all I know its like 30-50 for me lol

[knotty marten]

just confirmed removing puffer from outside spawn chance stops the crash

[limpid portal]

So the Solace crash is puffer + blizzard?

[knotty marten]

i think so

snowfall specifically was what i checked

but they both use snow mesh

[limpid portal]

Hm. I'm sure I can't be the only person with outside puffers, so you may want to see if LethalElements can do anything on their end

[knotty marten]

i could check if that combination on other moons also crash

ok i just tried doing puffer + snowfall on DemonMae's Flicker, and had no crash

might be something specific with your scene

[wispy nimbus]

i do not get a crash for some reason 🤷‍♂️

[half junco]

Gtx1080 for me

[bright eagle]

I have an RTX 3080 without issues
I know its high end so I probably wouldnt notice the issues if there were any but my fps went UP post patch
wish I could help beyond saying that my stuff worked lol so I listed the type incase that helped at all

[limpid portal]

It's the unfortunate case of "works on my machine" 😓

[limpid portal]

@thin loom @wispy nimbus if the batching works, my asset bundle size should go down a bunch, right? Also, if batching doesn't work but GPU instancing does, how would that affect things?

[steady carbon]

Ideally you probably want both right? Lol

[limpid portal]

GPU instancing on a material prevents static batching, so it's mutually-exclusive

[steady carbon]

Ah

[wispy nimbus]

It should go down in both cases cause you won't have that huge combined mesh

[limpid portal]

Mmk. I'm still not getting it to work, but I'll keep at it

I hate Unity

[wispy nimbus]

does it still has the same size or your fps is not as high?

[limpid portal]

My last attempt was bigger in size and worse in performance

So there's definitely no batching happening

[wispy nimbus]

did you inspect the bundle? it may still pack your mesh i guess

[limpid portal]

Do you mean the combined mesh?

[wispy nimbus]

yes

idk how else the size is getting bigger

[limpid portal]

I'll check as soon as I'm done "Waiting for Unity's code to finish executing"

well with so many more game objects, the size of the actual scene file is much bigger

[wispy nimbus]

it doesn't matter much if they all use the same mesh and material

[limpid portal]

if they have different scales, does that matter?

[steady carbon]

Maybe you and s1ckboy should hop into vc since you're working on this, s1ckboy wanted to help you munch on those sizes lol

[wispy nimbus]

not really

definitely not 175 mb worth

[limpid portal]

I'd normally be up for this, but atm Unity is being incredibly slow since it's trying to process so many things and there'd be a lot of just waiting around

[steady carbon]

Lol

[limpid portal]

So I'd rather have some youtube bg noise ; w ;

[steady carbon]

I'm sure s1ckboy is used to it tbh, but yeah maybe call him after it finishes

@slim blade just be prepared

:3

[rich glade]

Here comes that boy

[slim blade]

[wispy nimbus]

also just in case, performance might not be as good as with a combined mesh on your specific device, but might get way better for all others who have problems now. so i wouldn't take it as a "gold standard". Also you need to add lods to them if you don't have any D:

[limpid portal]

They already have LODs ready to go, but if I can get this to work and get the size down with even a moderate performance increase that's the goal

The LODs are just "exists" and "doesn't exist" 🤭

[wispy nimbus]

still better than nothing

[slim blade]

LODs are nice

[minor echo]

eugh. Glad at least I am not the only one

My gpu is a Gtx 1050 😭

[bright eagle]

looks so naked without the trees / foliage

[glossy plover]

yeah this looks kinda barren dont it

[formal thorn]

I wanna improve performance on hdrp ripped projects so badly

Like it’s so bad and my specs are great there’s no way there’s not something weird

[steady carbon]

HDRP is so shit tbh, like for example today I switched from playing on default res for months back to playing on 720p which was DiFFoZ's recommendation a while back and the game runs better cus 720p for this game happens to prevent the game from being cpu or gpu bound so I get what you're saying here

There's something really weird with this game

[formal thorn]

I'm talking exclusively about editor usage here

[steady carbon]

Ye I get you, but I was agreeing with you that in general HDRP is certainly odd

[ember lagoon]

just want to show off how pretty starlancer 0 is when its snowy

[steady carbon]

Have you seen it with blackout yet?

||https://www.twitch.tv/lunxara/clip/HungryPlayfulDuckAMPEnergy-49YfLuxNIkQdmsI3||

[limpid portal]

Oooh, lovely!

[steady carbon]

I just hope you manage to get Solace fixed I feel so bad I can't play on it right now

Lol

Did you decide if you're going with GPU instancing or not?

[limpid portal]

Nothing I do seems to works, so until I can figure why nothing is batching/instancing correctly, there's not much else I can do. I very well might have to eliminate a bunch of grass and trees from it, which will break my poor lil heart

[formal thorn]

get on gittttt

you can see why batching fails btw

lemme pull up unity

from here hit play and enable in the window and you can run through each frame step yourself

this tells you why it batching was reset compared to last step

@slim blade figure you'd like to know this exists too

[slim blade]

I was trying to find this

ty

[limpid portal]

The Solace scene is too big for Github xD

[formal thorn]

also i don't think it's immediently relevant for either of you but just to mention in debug view materials also have this value which is basicially a rendering priority (similar to harmony patch priorities). usually the srp batcher figures out things nicely but sometimes it fails and doesn't do things in the right grouped orders so explicitly ordering material via this can be useful

[formal thorn]

the fuck

[limpid portal]

many foliage

[formal thorn]

that

i hate that

can you manually send me it

[limpid portal]

atm I also do

Do you want me to zip just the necessary stuff for you to open a project?

[formal thorn]

ye can just kill library logs and obj

ive done this w/ handful of other devs so not my first rodeo 😄

[limpid portal]

this is an old thing I have to remind me what to pack, is that still accurate, do you need more, or can it be further trimmed?

[formal thorn]

for sanity if your internet isn't too bad i'd prefer all of it - Library, Obj & UserSettings

if your internet is rough though then I think I'd maybe need lethal company folder too? don't recall what nomnom stuff relies on

[limpid portal]

I've got gigabit 🤭

[formal thorn]

my internet and storage is fine so it's whatever floats your boat

[limpid portal]

The creation of the zip file might take a hot minute tho

[formal thorn]

frl

[steady carbon]

It would be worse if you compressed it as 7z

[limpid portal]

?

[steady carbon]

Compressing to 7z format is a lot slower than zip cus it's a higher compression method so I was saying if you think compressing it to a zip file is slow imagine how much slower 7z would be

[limpid portal]

Oh, I never noticed lol

Granted I don't usually zip 48gb of stuff

[steady carbon]

it becomes more noticeable with larger things and with how big Solace is atm it would be a slide show haha

True

[limpid portal]

idk if I'll even have enough storage on Drive for this actually

🤔

[steady carbon]

Should be neat to find out ig

[formal thorn]

am i gonna have to download this in parts lol

[limpid portal]

The compression ratio it's currently indicating should knock it down enough that I can upload it

but this will also take like 2-3 hours lol

At least it's on a drive separate from my steam library, so I can still game

[formal thorn]

would it be better to put it on version control -solace scene and just send me that?

[limpid portal]

Well solace is the problem, so wouldn't that be fruitless?

[formal thorn]

no i mean

send me repo without solace

and then also send me just solace

[limpid portal]

ohhhh

Yeah I'll try that

[formal thorn]

@limpid portal initial vibes

worth noting that unity will prefer to do batching rather than instancing if both are enabled so i had to disable static batching to get instancing to work correctly

[limpid portal]

So batching and instancing are working, there's just too much stuff?

[formal thorn]

batching on your grass is doing a very bad job

instancing is doing good i think

on the otherhand your berries seem to be better being batched

did your combined one merge the berries and grass?

[limpid portal]

yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that, having each foliage type combined with only the same type would probably improve it a bit

[formal thorn]

combining won't be what you want

i promise

even ignoring the filesize issue which is a really big con you also loose out on the benefit of it being cullable and such

[limpid portal]

kk

any leads on lowering the bundle size?

[formal thorn]

in a perfect world you'd probably want a shader

haven't checked that yet, might not be as viable seeing as i only have a partial project

how was the performance when it was instanced on the terrain?

[limpid portal]

Not great, you can just check one of the previous versions

[wispy nimbus]

It's also worth noting that by default terrain culls grass detail at a certain distance, so I suppose for a proper comparison mesh grass needs to have LOD group component on it.

[wispy nimbus]

Your combined mesh has three submeshes, each one of them corresponds to a single material, so it's already like that. At least that's how submeshes are supposed to work

[formal thorn]

A grass shader probably really is gonna be the best way to achieve what you want

[limpid portal]

Wouldn't that mess with LC's graphical effects?

[wispy nimbus]

it won't have posterization yeah

it only works on actual meshes in zeek's implementation

[thorn warren]

that's one scene????

[limpid portal]

nooo that's the whole project lmao

[thorn warren]

scared the hell out of me 😭

[limpid portal]

Miiiiight be on to something

[slim heron]

¿que?

[limpid portal]

Don't wanna say anything for certain, but I'm on the hunt

[slim heron]

[silent tulip]

me and my friends just played solace and i have some info.

me on a nvidia 1660 super normally 90 fps in ship.. on solace i had 50fps
a friend on an amd 6600, normally 90 fps in ship on solace they had 15fps
anotehr friend on an as yet unknown nvidia gpu normally getting 70-80 fps in the ship, getting 50fps on solace.

so maybe its an issue with AMD having low fps on solace?

[limpid portal]

Maybe, but don't worry, I should have an update tomorrow that'll help a bit

[thin loom]

when you say the moon scene is too big, do you mean your actual assets in Unity or are you talking about the dummy bundle to get LLL to load the moon in editor?

if the latter, maybe I should send you an LLL build that bypasses that requirement

[limpid portal]

the actual assets, but I've mitigated the issue

[limpid portal]

Okay I figured out what the cause of the giant increase in filesize was
When the trees and grass are part of a Unity terrain, everything was marked as draw instanced. Since everything was meshified, they were batched and so suddenly there's thousands of foliage objects in the scene, leading to a huge bundle size increase.
If I make the trees instanced, the size goes way down but the performance does as well, compared to the batched version

So what I'm gonna do is leave the trees batched, mix some batching and instancing on the grass, and reduce the amount of grass and trees a bit

[limpid portal]

Incoming

Starlancer Moons v3.1.0

• StarlancerMoons v3.1.0
  • Managed to decrease the bundle size a bit (279mb -> 222mb), but I'll keep a lookout for any ways to decrease it further.
    • Performance is now slightly higher on Auralis, Triskelion, and [REDACTED], while Solace has taken a slight hit.
    • The performance on all 4 moons is much more stable now.
      • The common issue of looking in the direction of the ship while some distance away from it causing massive fps drops no longer occurs, at least on my system where I had noticed it before.
  • Auralis
    • Lowered the number of trees to improve performance.
    • Fixed the navmesh not going down far enough on the terrain.
    • Made the water object waaaaaaaaay smaller
  • Solace
    • The foliage is no longer a combined mesh, as this was causing issues with culling and decreasing performance for some users.
      • All foliage is now GPU instanced instead of static batched.
    • Slightly mowed and deforested.
  • [REDACTED]
    • Fixed some missing offmeshlinks.
  • The NavMesh on each moon is now created using a volume instead of the hierarchy, allowing for more granular control of the playable area and compatibility with LethalElements

I was actually hitting 190-ish on Auralis and 185-ish on Triskelion/S0 after these changes, so I'm hoping everyone else gets similar benefits

Solace went down to about 165-175 from the beautiful 200 I was getting, but hopefully no one has possibly-graphics-card-related issues anymore

[limpid portal]

Correction:2 of the 3 foliage types on Solace are batched. 1 performed better instanced for some reason

[thin loom]

are you forcing instancing via a material property group?

or property block I should say

[limpid portal]

I have static batching unchecked and GPU instancing checked in the material

[lunar pumice]

I feel like Stellar fits Starlancer Moons better, but Cobalt fits better if you only look at the interior on its own

[limpid portal]

Yeah it's a tough choice, hence why I'm putting the burden on the community 🤭

[lunar pumice]

Could make it so the apparatus changes depending on the moon it’s on

iirc you can do it with JLL

[onyx dirge]

Could always reserve the Stellar Apparatus name for a future project involving space/stars or researching such, etc 😩

[limpid portal]

What's JLL?

[thorn warren]

John's Little LoanShark-Company

[limpid portal]

ah

Also, I was trying to fix the apparatus despawning issue, it's got a unique item script, it's own prefab and whatnot, but it still vanishes on exit/reload

[ripe hill]

afaik JLL is a library for custom script for custom moons
A lot of moons uses it

[lunar pumice]

bsjebdjfb gdi xu

[thorn warren]

he DID ask

[ripe hill]

https://github.com/JacobG55/JLL

You can check those scripts here, maybe there's an use here :]

[lunar pumice]

I know @tepid raptor did seperate setups depending on the moon the interior is on

If Area 71 is on Sector 0 it has like Jeb tentacles around and the apparatus is Jeb’s heart and you hear jeb make pain sounds throughout the interior when you pull it

But if it isn’t, it doesn’t have any and its a standard apparatus

[limpid portal]

Neat! Is JLL what people use to have apparatuses not despawn?

[thorn warren]

no, that's just a you issue i think

[limpid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/skeptical-futurama-fry-hmmm-i-got-my-eyes-on-you-gif-17101711

[lunar pumice]

I was literally just talking about Futurama while getting my hair cut lmao

My #1 fav show

[limpid portal]

Bumping this

[limpid portal]

Apparatus fixed. Still adjusting some things, but it looks like Cobalt is on track to win. Update will hopefully be tonight

[steady carbon]

I was just about to ping Wesley to see if he could help you before I saw you posted this ^^

Will it also properly wake up Old Birds now as well?

I really like the name Stellar Apparatus more but that's just cus to me it fits the vibe of your stuff more

But Cobalt fits the interior more lol

I definitely think you need to make a Stellar Apparatus now though at some point, maybe figure out JLL and have it be that on anomalous moons and stuff

[limpid portal]

I'll have to check, took a break for a bit lol

[rich glade]

I'm still wondering why so many people voted for Cobalt when Stellar seems to make more thematic sense for the mod itself.

[lunar pumice]

bc while they’re connected, warehouse isn’t in the same mod as the moons and it doesn’t fit the interior itself as well as the moons

[rich glade]

https://tenor.com/view/mgs5-metal-gear-solid-snake-fire-why-gif-15219632

Wait, does Cobalt even conduct electricity, or is this purely the radioactive kind?

Oh Cobalt is definitely a metal, but I wasn't sure if it could store an electrical charge or if the Warehouse uses its radioactive properties to generate its energy.

[limpid portal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

You just put more thought into it then I did lol

Doing a scan of the Wikipedia page however, I'd be inclined to write it as being primarily electrical, with some cut-corner efficiency boosting utilized by the company via radioactive materials

[limpid portal]

Working on this btw, currently it still does not

[limpid portal]

This will primarily be a bugfix update for Warehouse, but I do have some actual improvements I'd like to make once everything is situated. Stellar may still come later :3c

[lunar pumice]

You fix that stair tile where you can clip through the ceiling?

I love popping my head through it every time i go down the stairs lmao

[limpid portal]

Yes, I did 🤭

[ripe hill]

I remember when playing this having some issues with the Bracken not moving correctly.
Has it been fixed?

[limpid portal]

Are you referring to Moons? That sounds more like AIFix or SEE, but I've also not heard of Bracken being weird

anymore so than normal

[ripe hill]

It was on the Warehouse interior :']

[limpid portal]

ohh

[ripe hill]

Inside

[limpid portal]

Honestly I don't remember hearing/dealing with that issue

[ripe hill]

Don't worry

I'll test the update when it's ready

And if it happens again, I'll let you know

[limpid portal]

If I put a normal apparatus in the Warehouse, the mechs wake up just fine, but I've had no luck thus far with the custom app

[formal thorn]

How are you spawning it

[limpid portal]

Spawn Synced Object, same as vanilla

[formal thorn]

Just in a normal tile?

[limpid portal]

Yep

[formal thorn]

How is the custom one implemented

[limpid portal]

I have an idea I'll try after this test

[limpid portal]

ExtendedItem

I've got it to where it no longer despawns between sessions

And it powers off the interior correctly, just doesn't wake the mechs

[limpid portal]

Yea, not sure what the issue is. I've tried using blank refs, LC vanilla refs, blank prefabs, nothing seems to work. I'm sure whatever it is, I'll feel silly in the end

[steady carbon]

@quartz mason you got any tips? I know your Custom ones wake them up properly

[limpid portal]

This is the relevant code, and everything fires correctly until it gets to the radMechEnemyType stuff. Even if I directly reference the vanilla SO, it doesn't work. This has sufficiently annoyed me for the night, so I'm gonna go play a game instead

Just in case anyone might see something I don't, here's all the apparatus-related things.
Worth reiterating that if I just swap in a vanilla apparatus, everything works correctly, so it doesn't seem like it's the interior itself or how I'm spawning it

[autumn crater]

How can I figure out the probability of interior spawn rate on StarlancerZero moon?

I typed in 'simulate Starlancerzero' and it didn't work

any suggestion?

[rich glade]

The only thing I can really think of is to go into configs and configure all your interiors around Starlancer Zero yourself.

[autumn crater]

I did like this
Auralis:100,Solace:100,StarlancerZero:100,Triskelion:100,Adamance:100,Artifice:100,Assurance:100,Dine:100,Embrion:100,Experimentation:150,Offense:150,Rend:100,Titan:100,Vow:150

But I want to make sure it is applied well

[autumn crater]

any clue?

[rich glade]

Any clue on what?

[autumn crater]

Figuring out the simulate thing on terminal

[rich glade]

I do that on accident by simply typing in "starlancerzero" while the moon is hidden and locked for the first time

[onyx dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-there-gif-5677380953331354485

[thorn warren]

masa's not deceased?

[onyx dirge]

Masa is not deceased

Masa is alive, and already making a new modpack as well as looking around to see how the letcom people are doing :3

[limpid portal]

Masa! \[T]/

[strong mirage]

will you add a preview video of the moons on the monitor? just asking

[steady carbon]

Any luck with the interior bud?

[limpid portal]

Not planned at the moment

[limpid portal]

I've got it most of the way there, still struggling with the apparatus not waking birds tho

I'll try a bit more tomorrow, but if I can't get them to wake I'll just push the update

[opal mauve]

bird

[limpid portal]

Old birds, but make them borbs

[lunar pumice]

Old borbs

[opal mauve]

Borboon hawks

[onyx dirge]

Hiiiiii 💜

Ngl Masa was screaming for a moment seeing Lun react to that message specirfically thinking that something was being wo---

But then Masa realized it was about the warehouse apparatus which BTW, pretty sure Masa actually got to encounter the interior once (though not sure but think your interior uses vanilla metal catwalks in some areas?) and it looked really cool

LC is like, super new to Masa again with all these mods Masa never got to test out Masa's so overwhelmed RHAAAAA

[steady carbon]

Definitely recommend checking out Wesley's new Update and playing his Journeys ^^ He basically dropped a whole expansion for the game as a mod

[onyx dirge]

GODS YES Monty bonked Masa through a introduction of the update aka the trailers and the like the uh the moon with the pictures

Masa is SO happy

[steady carbon]

Great to see you back btw, hope you've been well

[onyx dirge]

Yeuh, lots of things and stuff that happened like inheritance etc but like Masa's back and in the LC mood 💜 Good to see you're still here among many other lovely people too!

[steady carbon]

[onyx dirge]

[limpid portal]

I don't think I use any vanilla assets, or at least very few
I managed to find some really good packs on the unity store for free that had industrial stuffs which was super helpful

[limpid portal]

Yeah, they don't want to wake up unless I'm using the vanilla apparatus, so I'm just gonna do some final checks @_@

[slim heron]

i say it aint important enough as long as the appy no longer disappears

[limpid portal]

I might just write some code for the next update

[steady carbon]

Is it possible Wesley is using a script in JLL for it?

[subtle ginkgo]

We need new moons. This is one of the best moon packs out there.

[limpid portal]

Maybe, but I don't have time to bother with it any more atm, so I'll check it out later

[steady carbon]

I was gonna say if it's just that that will save you having to write some code probably

[limpid portal]

Yee, but for now I'll settle for fixing the issues. Hopefully I haven't created any new ones, but I'm sure you'll let me know if I do 🤭

Starlancer Moons v3.1.0 / Starlancer Warehouse v1.7.0

• StarlancerWarehouse v1.7.0
  • Turrets no longer shoot through the wall/corner in the HallwayCorner2 tile.
  • The apparatus has been given a unique name: "Cobalt Apparatus"
    • In addition, the apparatus no longer despawns between sessions.
  • Fixed the lack of ceiling collision on the HallwayIncline tile.
  • Fixed some off-mesh links not being on the correct layer.
  • Removed an errant box collider on one of the shelving units in the main entrance, which was probably the cause of occasionally unobtainable scrap.
  • Adjusted the angle of steam pipe hazards. Let me know if any big weirdness happens.

[thorn warren]

ah yes, hallwaycorner2 tile

nice goin though

[limpid portal]

A bastard of a tile

[limpid portal]

@rich glade your collection grows

[rich glade]

I'll assemble the bois

[slim heron]

https://tenor.com/view/flo-progressive-insurance-you-dropped-this-king-queen-gif-27499505

[limpid portal]

Not a mod update, but I'm now a married Star~ ✨

[slim heron]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-pets-pets-adorable-pets-fun-pets-fun-pet-gif-24268579

[steady carbon]

Oh shit Congrats!!!

[lunar pumice]

Congrats!!! 🎉

[ripe hill]

Congrats!

[limpid portal]

Thanks everyone! 💙 💙 💙

[glossy plover]

hell yeah dude congratulations to both of yall

[crimson helm]

Congratulations!

[thorn warren]

my condolences i mean congratulations to the audio princess or however that stuff works

but yeah congrats

[radiant ingot]

Massive dub 🔥

[onyx dirge]

OMG CONGRATS 💜 HOPE YOU HAVE THE BEST OF TIMES WITH YOUR MARRIED PARTNER!!!111

[rich glade]

Now you can both be of great value to The Company™️

[lofty spear]

Congrats !

[true sedge]

lethal company added marriage!? congratulations <3

[rich glade]

They are having the honeymoon on Solace

1000+ Quota Solace-only Duo run

[quartz mason]

Congrats!!

[royal cape]

Congrats🎉

[subtle ginkgo]

Congrats!

[teal nimbus]

No way

🤯

[slim blade]

EYO! I missed out on this! Congrats!

[limpid portal]

Thank you for the well-wishes everyone! Our hearts are full ^^
✨ 💙 ✨

[silent tulip]

so.. ive been working on a mod for doing proper moon difficulty ratings for every moon... and i thought i had the scale nailed.. to keep everything within 0 to 999 as a rating scale.. and then i thought id test with starlancer moons to make sure my values always show... and... WHAT................................. ignoring the fact that DINE is also outside of the scale i intended... SLZ is ridiculous xD

[rich glade]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-its-over9000-gif-14419267

*900

[opal mauve]

Adamance and Solace higher than Artifice???

[limpid portal]

Idk if weather factors into the difficulty, so that may have something to do with that. Ain't no way Solace should be higher than Auralis lol

But yeah, SLZ is no joke

[silent tulip]

yeah, the mod im writing increases difficulty rating because of weather. so solace is only up there cause of eclipsed, but yeah, still balancing all that.. because i do agree.. solace even when eclipsed probably shouldent be that high. but a lot to balance imho.

[knotty marten]

dine being like that is reasonable lmao

when i did a vanilla ironman Dine was the only moon that made us restart because it's such an unexpectedly hard design

[silent tulip]

thats fair.. but my idea at the time was all the ratings should be 0-999.. so if dine is that hard.. then eclipsed dine would be 999... and everything else would be lower.

but, i was also trying to get everything to sit between 100 and 900.. so there is flex for extreme configs.

[knotty marten]

oh yeah if it was supposed to be capped at 999 i get where youre coming from

[lone roost]

i wonder what etern's rating is

[knotty marten]

could you do a calculation that determines the multiplier to bring the highest value to 999, and then apply it to the other values below it?

[limpid portal]

Alternatively, just take the result, divide it by 10, and round it to the nearest integer. If anything could possibly reach 9999 in your calculation then it deserves the 999 🤭

[silent tulip]

no i do agree.. ive encountered some issues on my end with smaller numbers anyway xD

like.. i tried to convert LLL's current rating system, to numbers like mine.. they come out as numbers up to like 27000. I then tried to get things under 1000 too hard.. and found an issue where two different moons rated themselves as "800", which actually throws an error in LLL (because of same value afaik)

so.. im more flexible on higher numbers.. then dividing to display a smaller number now.. as that i think avoids the error i faced.

[silent tulip]

i can find out.. although my calculations are ever changing.. also my code is busted atm.. wont run the patch that sorts in the store anymore x.x no clue why. screenshot is moons with no weather (miracle :D) SLZ is probably.. i d k.. 1700ish with no weather under current calculations.

but i think im going to upscale values to make it closer to 30,000 as peak result.. then downscale the display again to under 1000. (by dividing by 30)

etern is low as F on this scale.. 341.

[lone roost]

341 is absolutely wrong, etern is probably one of if not the most dangerous moon out of every single moon mod

[silent tulip]

im aware, i have etern in my profile, as i said, all about balancing xD ive done most of my balancing using vanilla moons so far.

i think the reason it rates so low.. is the bountiful amount of scrap and low price.

my calculation atm (roughly) is..

((((enemies + price + cruiser) - scrap) * time) * weather);

but yeah, ill be looking at why some moons are ridiculously low/high.. probably will take a few versions once i release anyway... etern does rate higher though in the original LLL calculation adapted to my code (900ish when the peak is 1200ish)

[tacit echo]

Even if having a lot of scraps makes a moon "easier" to go in and out, it should cost more if there is more scraps in it.

My small opinion 😅

Also you should probably take into account the dungeon size.

[silent tulip]

i agree. but i dont config moons (yet) with the mod

[tacit echo]

The bigger the dungeon the less you find scraps even if there is a lot of them in it
Also easier to get lost in it

[silent tulip]

i agree, trying to factor all that in 😛 dw

[tacit echo]

You could also take into account distance between door and ship, but idk how it would pan out

[silent tulip]

bit hard without loading the moon first

[limpid portal]

Yeah that'd be a bit much. It could also be variable depending on if there's obstacles in the way to the entrance

[thorn warren]

How are you guys even expecting to check the path to main entrance when the moon doesn't exist

When you're not routed to a moon, you might as well act like the moon's scene doesn't exist

Because it ain't loaded, you cant access anything there

[tacit echo]

Oh right!

[formal thorn]

dynamic difficulty calculation is heavily limited without the context of the moon itself ye

the level design and effects the weather actually has on the level plays a massive part

[tacit echo]

You could store variables from the moon after first load, but that is a bit much

[formal thorn]

rend and dine are far more difficult due to the lack of visability which cannot be gleemed without the scene

[tacit echo]

Maybe the host loads all the scenes when first opening the game 😂. (Stores it in config) I wonder how long that would take 🤔

[tender sable]

distance is kinda meh anyways because there are also cruiser moons wich are very large but not realy harder (atleast as long as you actualy use the cruiser lol)

[formal thorn]

thats something i looked into in general very early into LLL's development for a couple reasons actually

theres some challenges with it because unity fucking suckssss

there's no way to prevent in-scene objects getting their onenable and awake call before any opportunity to unload the scene

so while it's probably harmless it's not 100% that something in a scene might fuck the game up because it's under the impression it's loading correctly

[tacit echo]

And I assume there's no way of getting info from a prefab without loading it in?

[formal thorn]

no no prefabs are fair game

you can get anything you wantr

[tacit echo]

I meant scene

[formal thorn]

oh

[tacit echo]

Harmony patch with a skip all Awake in the class loader and then unpatch them lol

[formal thorn]

that was a potential idea yeah

the biggest reason why i wanted to do it is to load references earlier

eg. items and selectablelevels etc.

since rn we can only get levels and dungeons at lobby

if you hold an active reference to them outside of the scene they wont unload when thescene unloads

[silent tulip]

i search for "cruiser" in the descrption and add difficulty for requiring a cruiser if found tbh.

[silent tulip]

2 turrets in 1 place.

[limpid portal]

Is that the room shaped like an angular 8?

If I know the tile it should be an easy fix, though I'm currently out of town

[silent tulip]

shaped like an L, sorry, i thought the picture was enough to go by so didnt pay particular attention, but, afaik, there is a door to the right, maybe a door to the left? (maybe not) and there is a door ahead, and you can see the corner straight in fronf of the turret.

also i didnt feel it was that big of an issue, just thought id mention it, they both seem to move 99% in sync with each other, so if one is shooting you, the second will too, and if not, neither will ihmo.

[limpid portal]

Okie dokie. I'll try and fix it at some point regardless

[crimson helm]

Silly landing location on Solace, courtesy of the amazing ProblematicPilotry mod

[mystic radish]

Anyone wanna spoil me the route word for StarlancerZero?

[slim heron]

nope 🙂

[mystic radish]

Lol. It's not that I dont want to find it. It's just because my friends don't wanna waste time searching for this kind of stuff

[ripe hill]

you should add a mod that lets you unhide moons :]

[mystic radish]

Wouldn't that still say StarlancerZero tho?

[ripe hill]

I don't know (I recommend hiding that moon's name)

[silent tulip]

There is a mod that renames StarlancerZero from the hidden word to StarlancerZero.

I use it because the people I play with don't want to have to remember hidden moons names, nor unknown moons names.

My friends barely remember which moon is which already xD

[rich glade]

What's weird is that even after unlocking it, I still have to use the keyword to route to it. Anyways, it's ||anomaly||.

[mystic radish]

Thanks