LethalLib

[zinc flower]

v.v

But yeah LT being broken isn't surprising

I just wonder if one of the enemy mods is doing something they shouldn't

[rocky cloak]

try Scophobia

[zinc flower]

Scopophobia needs to move to the new native spawning method Hamunii added for LL in the last update

I'll see if it's that

[rocky cloak]

I disabled a few of your mods and one of them started making monsters working and it seems to be that but I might just be blind

[distant flame]

yeah I've wanted to change how that works for a while but haven't had time to

[zinc flower]

If it is that I'll lyk then the dev needs to be made aware of it

Well

I have mines and turrets now

Good sign

[rocky cloak]

should just be able to check logs for it to be easier tbh

but yeah it seems to be Scopophobia

[zinc flower]

Yes it was

[rocky cloak]

own pack isn't spawning enemies after adding it

[zinc flower]

I have a Redwood!!!!

So yeah

it's Scopophobia

Lmfao rip Siren Head

I'm gonna guess it's due to the same stuff that breaks Xu's Giant, the LOS related code

[vagrant nacelle]

Could mistake it for a tree T-T

[zinc flower]

I'm gonna try LethalThings again and see if enemies spawn or not

[rotund zephyr]

Snail seems to work, also fun fact Old Birds don't care about the snail at all

[zinc flower]

Something for @austere dagger to fix

c;

[rotund zephyr]

I mean Snail IS an invincible enemy so it'd be, odd, for it trying to kill an otherwise unkillable enemy

[zinc flower]

Would be funny

lol

[rotund zephyr]

The one time I'm actually happy Embrion existing since it's an easy place to guarantee Old Birds for testing

[zinc flower]

Yeah confirmed

LT also breaks it

Probably cus of how it spawns Boomba

[rotund zephyr]

oof

[vagrant nacelle]

Pretty sure star wants unkillable enemies to not be targetted, and it seems thats already a thing

[zinc flower]

Ahhh

[vagrant nacelle]

yep

[zinc flower]

The Old Birds are kind of like an exception though since they attack everything

But it does make sense

[rotund zephyr]

I wouldn't be surprised if Zeekers hardcoded for it to target Masked/Baboon/Dog/Giant/Players

[vagrant nacelle]

Yeah, itll need a lot more code to make all enemies killable but only by old birds

[vagrant nacelle]

Hopefully zeekers just coded for it to kill killable enemies xD

[zinc flower]

@tough path could a similar fix be done for LLL btw for the time being for custom interiors and moons to work on V50?

[rotund zephyr]

If he did code it to only try to kill any killable entities, then that'd be a cool futureproof way if he ever wanted to add even more killable outdoor enemies, and by proxy any modder that adds indoor enemies to the outdoors like Hoarding Bugs

[tough path]

no

[zinc flower]

Okay I wanted to ask

[vagrant nacelle]

Ye, or just killable modded enemies

hopefully, I am hoping zeekers is trying to accomodate for the modding community

[rotund zephyr]

Hard to say how Zeekers did it without looking at the code cause the only outdoor enemy that's unkillable now is worms and I don't recall Old Bird ever bothering to try and attack them when they do the nom leap

[vagrant nacelle]

Yeah

Someone should go and check the code for the old birds xD

Probably not, its like 100< lines long

maybe more I cant remember

[rotund zephyr]

And dormant worms are placed so far down underground that they probably avoid detection by them natively

[marsh island]

looks like it uses an interface

[zinc flower]

Hey @tough path is it possible to make it so v49 switches from int to float for the enemypowerlevels since a lot of mods are updating to float for v50?

That way that bridge can be gapped til V50 fully launches lol

[tough path]

is that not working

[zinc flower]

Well I was using the updated version of CoilHeadSettings by Zehs earlier on V49, and cus it switched from int to float I had a funny bug where after killing some enemies like Baboon Hawks they would come back from the dead

Lmfao

I mean with the new LethalLib update maybe that won't happen XD but it was funny af

https://clips.twitch.tv/SteamyToughPorcupineBigBrother-oz3EvhT1uO0K8irc

It also threw a lot of errors so I wonder if a mod could be made that just switches it to float like in V50 but not sure

[crimson mauve]

It had like 15 consecutive logs, don't be a baby

Also, not my code so nothing I can do about it

[marsh island]

sifting through logs just kinda comes with the territory imo

[frigid sorrel]

do you know if the new update will break v49?

[vagrant nacelle]

Batby said that it should work

So probably not

[frigid sorrel]

I’ll let you know

[zinc flower]

It works fine with V49

[lime zephyr]

We had a game earlier where like 7-8 dogs spawned outside on Titan, power unchanged (so 2) and Titan with a max outside power of 7. Was wondering if this could be caused somehow by LethalLib and it's power calculations?

(Using KeepEnemyPower so when one is killed its power remains counting towards the max, so dead dogs aren't the cause)

[zinc flower]

@tough path If you're wondering I was the one who thought this might be the case, since you mentioned LethalLib has some problematic power level code that needs to be fixed lol

Since no enemy mods we use should be touching anything to cause this

XD

[indigo orchid]

this is the strangest thing ive seen it seems to be with my asset bundle but nothing is null so its all loaded "[Error : Unity Log] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
Stack trace:
LethalLib.Modules.Enemies.FinalizeRegisterEnemy (LethalLib.Modules.Enemies+SpawnableEnemy spawnableEnemy) (at <c68aa40cbbae4bd69cd2fcd50c8f1ae1>:0)
LethalLib.Modules.Enemies.RegisterEnemy (EnemyType enemy, System.Int32 rarity, LethalLib.Modules.Levels+LevelTypes levelFlags, LethalLib.Modules.Enemies+SpawnType spawnType, System.String[] spawnLevelOverrides, TerminalNode infoNode, TerminalKeyword infoKeyword) (at <c68aa40cbbae4bd69cd2fcd50c8f1ae1>:0)
LethalLib.Modules.Enemies.RegisterEnemy (EnemyType enemy, System.Int32 rarity, LethalLib.Modules.Levels+LevelTypes levelFlags, LethalLib.Modules.Enemies+SpawnType spawnType, TerminalNode infoNode, TerminalKeyword infoKeyword) (at <c68aa40cbbae4bd69cd2fcd50c8f1ae1>:0)
DroneEnemy.Plugin.Awake () (at C:/Users/tabwe/source/repos/DroneEnemy/src/Plugin.cs:64)
UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent(Type)
BepInEx.Bootstrap.Chainloader:Start()
UnityEngine.Rendering.HighDefinition.HDRenderPipelineAsset:OnEnable()" i can't get it to register though if i use my old asset bundle it works fine

all i did was update my mod to v50

it works with the old one but not the new one

        private void Awake() {
            MainAssetBundle =       AssetBundle.LoadFromFile(Path.Combine(Path.GetDirectoryName(Assembly.GetExecutingAssembly().Location), "droneenemyassets"));
            InitializeConfig();

            DroneEnemy = MainAssetBundle.LoadAsset<EnemyType>("DroneEnemy");
            var TerminalNode = MainAssetBundle.LoadAsset<TerminalNode>("DroneEnemyTN");
            var TerminalKeyword = MainAssetBundle.LoadAsset<TerminalKeyword>("DroneEnemyTK");

            NetworkPrefabs.RegisterNetworkPrefab(DroneEnemy.enemyPrefab);
            RegisterEnemy(DroneEnemy, spawnWeight.Value, LevelTypes.All, SpawnType.Default, TerminalNode, TerminalKeyword);
            
            Logger.LogInfo($"Plugin {PluginInformation.PLUGIN_GUID} is loaded!");

        }```

[zinc flower]

@tough path @crimson mauve you guys got any ideas?

[indigo orchid]

Figured it out it was due to the HDRP settings not being correctly set

its supposed to be ```3 HDRP assets included in build:

• HDRP High Fidelity
• HDRP Balanced
• HDRP Performant``` not

- HDRenderSettings```

[brittle marsh]

huh, interesting issue

[haughty marten]

Now that LLL has taken over functionality from LL.
Is there anything left in LL that LLL still cannot do?
Would LL be getting deprecated at some point / soon?

[empty obsidian]

I recall this only being updated for major bugs from now on but could be mistaken

[haughty marten]

yeah, that's what I've heard as well.
I'm rather asking if there are still reasons to use it over going to LLL directly?
Is it just a matter of supporting legacy mods, that won't receive an upgrade.
Or is there some LL exclusive functionality left, which would mean that a direct port to LLL is unfeasible for mods that use that functionality.

[empty obsidian]

Might want to ask batby

[haughty marten]

yeah, It's low priority, he'll come across this thread at some point

[crimson mauve]

I dont think LLL has furniture etc support yet

[haughty marten]

Yet..., so is that planned?

[crimson mauve]

Well I'm sure it probably is

@tough path would know more

[haughty marten]

So Ship Decor mods should remain on LL for now, but they could eventually also migrate to LLL, by update or get forked.

Also the future delivery bot from LT was planned to classify as a ship decor. So if it was implemented that way, soon, that would make LT depend on both LLL and LL...

And I'm assuming that furniture is the last feature of LL to move over?

[floral rock]

LLL has l lib as a dependancy

already

[crimson mauve]

Only so LL doesn't explode

[haughty marten]

Hmm, good point. So when LLL is installed, the support for ship decor is also installed by proxy of having LL in the background

[crimson mauve]

Ehhh

[floral rock]

Im guessing l lib is gonna be phased out and there may just be a patch for mods that use it laying around like what LE had

[crimson mauve]

The switch from LL to LLL is much smoother than LE, there isn't a real need for a porting tool like what we have for LE

[floral rock]

Oh I just mean for mods that arent gonna be updated

although weve been seeing several unoffical updates now

[haughty marten]

I'm guessing that the method signatures match, and you only need to change which api the mod is pointing at?

[crimson mauve]

Uhhhh no, LL and LLL use a very similar system in that they utilise vanilla features to register their things, they're not very different

[haughty marten]

Ohh,

OOOH...

So an old LL mod, could work with LLL even without any porting?, It would be unaware that the vanilla feature is being powered by a different backend?

[crimson mauve]

I guess? As long as vanilla doesn't change anything destructive LL will still work fine, minus any bugs that LL itself has

[haughty marten]

I would like batby to either confirm or deny this! But later when he doesn't have an explosive mailbox disorder.
Thanks for this info anyway. Details like this help a lot when planning out what to include in a modpack!

[crimson mauve]

:p he'll tell you exactly what I said, except prob with bias sprinkled in because ofc

[haughty marten]

Maybe, but he wouldn't be guessing

[crimson mauve]

😭

It's a figure of speech I'm not actually guessing, LL and LLL work really well because they use the vanilla system to register their shit

[haughty marten]

Alright, i thought you were actually guessing. Ty again and lol

[merry meadow]

is lethal lib gonna be getting the new moons as leveltypes any time soon?

[crimson mauve]

it not a priority since u can technically set em through the same way as custom moons so i doubt the maintainers will bother with it

[merry meadow]

oh, alright

[brittle marsh]

I'll get to this soon(tm), I just don't know how changing an enum's values affects things, but it's probably not gonna cause issues

it's a super simple change, but yeah the though of accidentally breaking something is just very scary

[tough path]

furniture and hazard support isn't in LLL yet yeah

but super duper easy for me to add

just gotta get other new stuff stable first

will be easy to port over too ofc

[soft kiln]

My jetpack is gone after i turned on the item saving in config

[brittle marsh]

This one from LethalLib's config? Yeah I wouldn't trust it working based on the description, so probably better left disabled

[Items]

## Allow for LethalLib to store/reorder the item list, which should fix issues where items get reshuffled when loading an old save. This is experimental and may cause save corruptions occasionally.
# Setting type: Boolean
# Default value: false
EnableItemSaveFix = false

[crimson mauve]

I saw someone suggesting that this update broke enemy spawns somehow, but no, the fix isn't related to anything closely resembling enemy spawns.

[wintry dew]

say i wanted to make a mod suing this lib that simply adds some scrap and thats it, is there a wiki teaching how to use this lib or any tutorials on how to use this lib?

[crimson mauve]

lethal.wiki

a section and then some on scrap

[wintry dew]

keep in mind i HAVE made games in unity before but ive never modified someone else game so anything beyond the basics im totally lost

[wintry dew]

thx

[plain rune]

With that mod in the API can you make a scrap mod?

[floral rock]

You could either use Lethal Lib or Lethal Level Loader

[plain rune]

If I would like to use the lethal lib, does much have to be done in visual studio?

[misty flume]

Would it be possible to fix the PluginInfo.GUID ?

[misty flume]

Isn't LethalLib registering PlainItems too late for the save system ? Like shouldn't items be added to AllItemsList in a postfix of StartOfRound.Start ?

It's actually using Terminal.Awake

I don't really know when save data is loaded

[tough path]

Terminal.Awake is before StartOfRound.Start

[misty flume]

Interesting

Is it also before GameNetworkManager.Start ?

[tough path]

neither are before that

They are very much after that

GameNetworkManager.Start is when you load the main menu

[misty flume]

I see

[brittle marsh]

oof, yeah LethalLib is using PluginInfoProps but doesn't actually use it...

[crimson mauve]

LethalLib [0.16.3]

Fixed

• GetLLLNameOfLevel function now returns a lowercase level name so input is no longer case sensitive.

forgor to post this here

[crimson mauve]

LethalLib [1.0.0]

[!NOTE] Despite the major version jump from 0.16.4 to 1.0.0, no major or breaking changes were made.
This change was made to properly follow SemVer to show that LethalLib's public API is stable.

Added

• Ability for items, levels, outside and inside mapobjects to register to levels through their LethalLevelLoader content tag.

Fixed

• mapobjects maybe having the same issues that items and enemies had the previous two versions with case sensitivity and leveltype validation.

[pulsar thicket]

is this basically a check to prevent the weight bug from occurring?

[crimson mauve]

ye, item weights being higher than a certain value or lower than a certain value cause weight bugs to occur

i just force em to a weight of 1 if they're under 1 or higher than 4, though ig in hindsight i shoulda just clamped

[pulsar thicket]

peak

[crimson mauve]

and ill probably push another update that clamps, whoopsie @brittle marsh

[brittle marsh]

ye

[brittle marsh]

though maybe it's better not to clamp so it's very noticeable that the values are in an invalid range?

[crimson mauve]

i think a warning is enough just so that the gameplay effect of the weight stays but like it's clear that something would've gone wrong otherwise

but up to you

[brittle marsh]

I mean yeah the clamping is fine, people are blind though

and can't read

[crimson mauve]

i think that'll always sadly be a problem

[brittle marsh]

it will be a problem as long as LL doesn't spit out a massive error message and not register the item, but not sure if we should do that

[crimson mauve]

probably shouldnt because it's been a problem for a long time and some devs just arent here anymore

[brittle marsh]

fair

[crimson mauve]

https://github.com/EvaisaDev/LethalLib/pull/100 made the PR just incase you want it

[brittle marsh]

the warning message is wrong

anything below 1 or above 4 gets reset to 1

[crimson mauve]

oops

updated it

[low lichen]

Hello! Not sure if it's related, but linked it to DemonMae's interior channel too.
In their map of scrap generation, I did get an error thrown. Don't know if it's related, but lethallib was indeed the only thing that's changed. Linking just in case

[brittle marsh]

ReXuvination and CodeRebirth seem to be be broken, and the only thing LethalLib should be changing is:

[03:26:16.4781103] [Warning: LethalLib] Item Data PC has an invalid weight of 0, resetting to weight of 1, please check the lethal.wiki for the weight calculation and give it a valid number, anything below 1 or above 4 gets forced to be 1 or 4.
[03:26:16.5043981] [Warning: LethalLib] Item Pentagram has an invalid weight of 333, resetting to weight of 1, please check the lethal.wiki for the weight calculation and give it a valid number, anything below 1 or above 4 gets forced to be 1 or 4.

[low lichen]

copy that! thank you for the information

[brittle marsh]

also seems that MysteryDice, JLL, LethalSettings and NightVision also all threw in the logs, including CentralConfig when disconnecting

note that all of that might be incompatibilities with other mods

[low lichen]

It may have been an unlucky combination of scrap generation at that exact moment if not due to LL; errors abound but havent had it break in the past

[brittle marsh]

It seems that StartOfRound.Instance is null which is causing CodeRebirth and ReXuvination to break

which basically means something has gone catastrophically wrong

[low lichen]

fair! please don't troubleshoot tons!!!!

[brittle marsh]

Also other notable stuff

[03:26:16.6452621] [Error  :More Ship Upgrades] [Tools] DropAllHeldItems method went missing.

[03:26:31.7776921] [Debug  :BepInExFasterLoadAssetBundlesPatcher] Loading uncompressed bundle "pjonkgooseassets_-1789359388.assetbundle"
[03:26:31.8041086] [Debug  :BepInExFasterLoadAssetBundlesPatcher] Loading uncompressed bundle "pjonkturkeyassets_657334770.assetbundle"
[03:26:31.8060760] [Error  : Unity Log] The AssetBundle 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Lethal Company\Cache\AssetBundles\pjonkturkeyassets_657334770.assetbundle' can't be loaded because another AssetBundle with the same files is already loaded.
[03:26:31.8060760] [Error  :PjonkGoose] Failed to load pjonk turkey assets.
[03:26:31.8060760] [Error  :PjonkGoose] Failed to load pjonk goose assets.

[low lichen]

I don't want to waste your time on it if not related, I promise!! and is not the right channel as well!
yeah that one Idk how I'm managing to doubleload that.

[brittle marsh]

yeah I'm just looking at all kinds of errors to see if there's anything I should be potentially worried about, since it's not unheard of that a LethalLib update breaks things but yeah I don't think it's LL's fault this time 😅

@low lichen oh one thing, do you know which mod the Pentagram item might be from?

[pulsar thicket]

pentagram might be from an LGU contract

[brittle marsh]

okay, thanks!

[brittle marsh]

uhm, do you have a link to a thread for LGU? I can't find one

[low lichen]

Aligned with that; it's not in my centralconfig setup which means it was not supposed to occur that way

[pulsar thicket]

https://discord.com/channels/1168655651455639582/1178407269994594435

[brittle marsh]

thanks!

[brittle marsh]

not sure what you mean

[low lichen]

It's not in my scrap spawn tables

so another mod decided to inject*

which, yeah, 99% sure is LGU

[brittle marsh]

ah yeah that's fine, I'm just interested in why the mod has a scrap with such an absurd weight

[low lichen]

^

[brittle marsh]

and it seems deliberate

so LL might be fucking it up currently

[proven cypress]

well

v70

@crimson mauve @brittle marsh

[brittle marsh]

I'm waiting on lordfire to publish new gamelibs packages

[proven cypress]

i see

[brittle marsh]

and he's probably asleep

and I'll go sleep soon too

if you want to fix this right now by doing reflection feel free to do so and you can ping batby and hope he's online to push an update

[errant hinge]

wait, was this fixed in the recent update that claims to update to V70? I still got it

[brittle marsh]

uh ask @crimson mauve

[errant hinge]

It's not LethalLib on it's own. Must be a dependent that's causing it. Will keep looking

Moonswept

or TestAccountCore maybe

and I believe it is what's breaking the monitor up front somehow, causing it to be blank

[crimson mauve]

i mean i changed the csproj to v70 so what else could i have done lol

[brittle marsh]

I dunno

[errant hinge]

Just made a profile of only Moonswept and dependencies and that's the issue.

I'm going to try just TestAccountCore and see if it's that

because that's a dependency so it could be in there

Yeah, ok. TestAccountCore is actually where the issue is I believe

Someone beat me to reporting it to them

[woven venture]

Does LL have a class for all content registered with it like the lists found in LLLs PatchedContent Class?

[brittle marsh]

afaik not really

it does have some internal lists somewhere maybe per thing but that's kinda it

LethalLib is not really designed... at all

[woven venture]

I was able to get a list of enemies with Enemies.spawnableEnemies

My only issue with this now is that the modName property is just LethalLib, not the mod that added them

[brittle marsh]

lethallib does store the calling assembly somewhere

[pulsar thicket]

didnt this mod add safeguards to prevent the weight bug from happening?

i still got it last night, i gotta see what precisely caused it

mightve been this actually

[crimson mauve]

yeah any LL item is forced to be inbetween 2 very specific values

the fix wont entirely work if you have more than 4 slots

but that's only for going above the normal lethal limit

negative weight should be completely fixed

(for LL items)

[pulsar thicket]

it wasnt negative weight, more like after a certain point i had 80 lbs passively

[crimson mauve]

yeah thats negative weight

basically the scrap has negative weight, when you pick it up it doesnt increase your weight, andf when u drop it it increases your weight

[pulsar thicket]

o

[crimson mauve]

cuz it ends up decreasing by a negative value

[pulsar thicket]

it started after putting a bunch of stuff in the beltbag

maybe one of the scraps had a negative weight and it messed up the weightedbeltbag code

[crimson mauve]

maybe? easiest way is to just make a mod that logs all item weights and seeing if there are any with weights below 1 (1 is 0 dont question it)

[pulsar thicket]

i'm looking more into it, i think it is just a weighted belt bag problem

all the stuff i picked up in that round had valid weights

at some point after picking up an item from a dead mask it just stopped reducing the weight when dropping things out of the bag

maybe they could add a patch to just reset the weight to the belt bag's default when drop all items is called

[crimson mauve]

@brittle marsh i need you to accept the PR and update LL

oh actually the PR build doesn't like what i did to the csproj

well, i dont know what to do about that, lol, there is no nuget package but seems like the github actions need it

you can figure that out

[crimson mauve]

fixed it actually

[crimson mauve]

i've been pushing updates to LL for a while, i should probably just get the maintainer perms at some point instead of pinging hamunii everytime lol

[brittle marsh]

Yeah I think you're trustworthy as a maintainer, though considering that eba is not really around anymore, maybe LCM should maintain a fork (where you are also a maintainer)?

Because rn we are relying on eba's NuGet and TS keys, both of which in theory are in danger of being leaked by whoever can make the GH actions run. The TS key is more dangerous to leak since it has no limits on what it can be used for afaik

[crimson mauve]

well, i do plan to eventually hollow out LL and just replace its called to DawnLib, a more maintained library

[brittle marsh]

Yeah I think it still makes sense to maintain a fork of it. Or idk actually

Because yeah it's in like life support rn, nothing new is really gonna be added to the API

But yeah just ask eba to make you a maintainer and that's one way to solve the issue

Anyways I'm gonna take about an hour or so before I can push an update

[crimson mauve]

sure

[crimson mauve]

@brittle marsh poke

[brittle marsh]

yep I am still alive, had some stuff before I could get to it

@crimson mauve just to confirm, this version doesn't work with v73 right? I'll probably add a note about that to the readme

and v80 is still beta, right?

actually fuck it, I don't care enough since many mods probably don't specify what they support and don't

fucking Thunderstore

also btw LethalLib's repo has /lib/ directory already

but that can be fixed later if anyone cares

I'll just merge and push it, I trust that it works

it should be up anytime now

[crimson mauve]

nice

[frank lotus]

hi hamunii o/
also yes, fucking thunderstore 😭

[brittle marsh]

hi lordfirespeed 👋

[frank lotus]

It's quite hard to get GitHub actions to leak a secret

It's possible sure, but they'd have to have push permission to a branch which triggers an on push workflow

[brittle marsh]

I am mostly referring to an account of a maintainer getting compromised one way or another, or a maintainer deciding to just leak it for some reason

[frank lotus]

Yeah, I guess

Afaik Eba edits the GitHub actions secrets herself

[brittle marsh]

but yeah it's not something I'd expect to happen, but the possibility is still there

[frank lotus]

she does that for me on netcodepatcher each time I ask

[brittle marsh]

could also probably add you as a maintainer for the nuget package and you could use your own key?

[frank lotus]

True

I forgot nuget.org has a concept of collaborators

[brittle marsh]

ye it's quite nice, if only thunderstore had anything like that

[frank lotus]

Teams sort of

[brittle marsh]

actually yeah, but it kinda still sucks

[frank lotus]

yeah it does lmao

[brittle marsh]

I do wonder though if there is any way for the community to ever move off of thunderstore if/when a good alternative comes to existence. Everything kinda sucks ngl, and I did earlier mention about possibly coming up with my thunderstore but the probability of that becoming anything is quite small

[crimson mauve]

If they paid I'm sure others would move

[frank lotus]

Damon's concrete had promise but I think it's been left by the wayside

[brittle marsh]

would be interesting at least if a few people here attempted to make a thunderstore alternative to just make things better

[frank lotus]

the problem with making a package repository is that hosting is expensive

[brittle marsh]

Yeah I do wonder if that project could be continued in a serious way

[brittle marsh]

that's also probably fair. Though I guess damon's system at least would work with github as the hosting provider? (users would upload their mod packages on their own github releases). So it could probably start off that way and then later have its own hosting

[humble pasture]

torrent-based package repo when?

[brittle marsh]

holy shit

[lavish meteor]

ZeroNet tried torrent based websites. Guess where it went

[frank lotus]

using GitHub to serve the bigger files does help significantly but there are problems

You still have significant hosting costs reqd to provide APIs that enable dependency resolution

and

can't release artifacts on GitHub releases be edited/removed after the fact?

[brittle marsh]

that's fair. The hollow knight (not silksong though) community has a solution though using GitHub https://github.com/hk-modding/modlinks so it's definitely possible to create a working system

[brittle marsh]

hashing files and checking the hash matches is a way to work around that

[frank lotus]

ITS ALL IN ONE FILE?!

[brittle marsh]

uh, appears so

[frank lotus]

true, removal is still a concern but I guess allowable

[brittle marsh]

not sure if that's what people work against, or if it's produced by github actions

[frank lotus]

Read the readme lol

people edit the file directly and submit prs

That's so cursed

[brittle marsh]

damn lol

[frank lotus]

On the one hand: idiots can't add mods to the list, yay

On the other hand, if lethal company used this system, that file would be unbelievably massive

On the order of a few gibibytes I think

[brittle marsh]

would kinda be the equivalent of the package index file the API gives you

[frank lotus]

Yes

I pulled the whole thing into a local sqlite database at one point

it was chonky and took ages

[humble pasture]

notepad shudders to think about opening that file

[frank lotus]

btw this would be the holy grail if mythic would do his append only log thing

[brittle marsh]

except that is separated into about 1.2-1.7 MB zips, which are about 14 mb of json each

[frank lotus]

cause then you could build the database from scratch once and then keep it up to date by applying the operations from the logs since you last updated

[frank lotus]

doesn't it give you one big file?

[brittle marsh]

uh there are probably multiple APIs, but this one API gives you a list of zip files which all have a certain sized json file so it's separated into many, probably so you don't need one massive file

[frank lotus]

huh I'm not sure that existed when I last dealt with thunderstore api

[brittle marsh]

so something like LC has 24 of those files, R.E.P.O. has 3, and silksong has 1

[frank lotus]

the one I'm thinking of is /c/whatevs/api/v1/package/

[brittle marsh]

this is the api https://thunderstore.io/c/lethal-company/api/v1/package-listing-index/

gives something like this

okay discord doesn't render that file for whatever reason, probably file extension, but it's just json

[frank lotus]

I like how it's not documented on their API docs lol

[brittle marsh]

oh yeah I looked at how gale uses it to do it properly lol

[pulsar thicket]

i'm hearing abt Modrinth supporting other games in the future, and i've only heard good things abt them

mayhaps?

from my cursory looks at the site they have stuff like version control and dependencies a lot better than TS

[brittle marsh]

modrinth's official modmanager kinda sucks ngl but otherwise I'm assuming it's good

[pulsar thicket]

first complaint ive heard abt them

why does it suck

[brittle marsh]

it has quite terrible UX, I wrote about it a bit, I'll try to find it

[frank lotus]

as a mod repository modrinth is very good though

and they have funding (somewhat)

making a mod manager to use their repository is fairly easy and does not require funding

the main problem they would run into is malware scanning

[brittle marsh]

#1387178791444549633 message

Also, Thunderstore is really great with how it handles modpacks, and on modrinth, it's just a terrible experience trying to use modpacks because you can't simply add a modpack to an existing profile. Also modrinth makes viewing what mods a modpack has so hard that you have to google it or something to figure it out. I just resorted to installing a modpack to see what it contained.

[frank lotus]

This is a client problem and not a repository problem

[brittle marsh]

ye, it was about the official mod manager

[frank lotus]

It's a problem that most Minecraft mod managers has

Including prism, the best one

The problem with treating a modpack as a dependency is that you can't remove things from it very easily

Most people prefer having that flexibility

[brittle marsh]

I'd say that is also a client problem, as long as there is some way to detect if a package is a modpack (it's a tag in TS's case)

[frank lotus]

how would you even model it?

[brittle marsh]

but yeah the reason I pointed this out is that it does give me some worry about their competency, as before I had experienced the mod manger, I thought it (modrinth as a whole) was the greatest thing ever

[brittle marsh]

what is the significant difference between a modpack and a mod?

that is not a rhetorical question btw

[frank lotus]

a modpack consists of a bunch of files that get unpacked into the Minecraft directory plus a bunch of dependencies (mods, resource packs, etc.)

Treating modpacks as dependencies of a game instance raises some problems

[brittle marsh]

isn't that what a mod is too though?

[frank lotus]

No

a mod is almost always a standalone .jar file

Because a .jar is a .zip archive

[brittle marsh]

oh so minecraft has it's own strict definition of what a mod is?

[frank lotus]

All the resources it needs are bundled inside

[frank lotus]

It's a de facto standard

[brittle marsh]

okay wait I'm not quite understanding. Can't a modpack be modeled the same exact way as a mod?

[frank lotus]

No

just let me type for a minute

modpacks in MC are better thought of as templates for game instances

if you try to treat them as dependencies instead of templates you run into really hard to solve problems

like what happens if they both contribute the same file? how do you try to merge it?

and what if a user wants to install a modpack and then remove a mod which that modpack includes from their game instance? (this is a very common usecase)

[brittle marsh]

they shouldn't be able to contribute the same file, like how Thunderstore mods can't (well I guess though that BepInEx/config/ is an exception, in which case idk what happens)

[brittle marsh]

this should probably be considered a feature of a modmanager. Being able to disable mods (or "deny" from being installed) would solve this, which I believe gale can do

[brittle marsh]

and if we want, we could only allow that feature if a dependant package is tagged as a modpack

so from what little I understand, I'd assume that minecraft modpacks are modeled in an inherently problematic way

because we have none of those problems on thunderstore, right?

and if there is a conflict, that's up to the APIs (which parse the files) to decide how they are resolved

[frank lotus]

in thunderstore a modpack can only be a collection of mods

[frank lotus]

we absolutely do

configuration files

[brittle marsh]

because otherwise it's a mod, right?

[frank lotus]

you can't install two modpacks that contribute different versions of the config files for a particular mod

[frank lotus]

No, because there's no 'shared' place that a mod/modpack can put files

All files associated with a thunderstore package are installed in a package-specific place

This is not the case with minecraft modpacks

[frank lotus]

Except config files

[brittle marsh]

that is very true actually, and the exception I mentioned above (which I didn't consider just now)

[frank lotus]

Minecraft modpacks commonly also edit the main menu UI / splash art

which is another thing you would certainly get conflicting behaviour/files with

[brittle marsh]

this would be up to the API that modfies the splash art to resolve, not a limitation inherent to modpacks

[frank lotus]

yes but it's almost certainly controlled by 'place your splash art image at XYZ location'

and if it's not that, it's a config file which contains the splash art image path

and that's the same problem as we just mentioned

[brittle marsh]

technically a conflict resolver for config files could be made (in thunderstore's case) which would at least allow a user to select for example which modpack's splash art they want

[frank lotus]

the bottom line is that there is no benefit to treating modpacks as fully qualified dependencies

It is not a feature that anyone would use

[frank lotus]

No user is going to use such a thing

[brittle marsh]

And on Thunderstore, it would kinda just work because other than that, everything needs to implement support for resolving conflicts (aka you shouldn't design an API which don't take multiple inputs into account)

[frank lotus]

Someone who creates modpacks would do the merge resolution manually and submit a new modpack

[frank lotus]

that's not true though

basically every mod in christendom uses the default bepinex config

[brittle marsh]

so how would you just install two modpacks as a user? With the Thunderstore way + potential conflict resolver in a mod manager, it's almost expected to work, except if two or more different config files depend on each other and the user mixes those with alternating versions per modpack

[frank lotus]

you don't, there is no scenario where you want to do that

you can make a new modpack which includes elements/dependencies from both

but that is something that someone experienced must do manually and carefully, especially merging of the config files

[brittle marsh]

could also be said about installing multiple different mods, there will likely be conflicts there already

[brittle marsh]

But yeah this is actually fair

[frank lotus]

In Minecraft at least, it is quite unlikely

At the filesystem level it is (basically) impossible

At the registry level, yes, there can be conflicts, but the mod loader tells you about these before the game loads

[frank lotus]

there can only be conflicts in the filesystem once the game has been launched once

before the game is launched, two mods will only conflict in the filesystem if their .jar has the exact same filename

so anyway: I don't think fully-fledged modpacks should be treated as fully-qualified dependencies

I do think they shouldn't be treated as templates

but something kind of in between the two

Ugh, it's just such a nightmare

[brittle marsh]

The modifying of config files is actually a very good point, and as of right now, I'm unsure what to think about it

[brittle marsh]

(from a thunderstore perpective)

[frank lotus]

I think there should be a distinction between a collection of mods and a modpack

[brittle marsh]

Actually: On Thunderstore, a mod can also ship config files (they shouldn't if they generate them themselves). And honestly, in such a case, a conflict resolver would already be useful

so in that sense, there isn't much difference between a mod and a modpack on TS

[frank lotus]

it would be useful to you or me and unusable by 99.9% of the userbase

a conflict resolver, i mean

but yeah it is necessary to have one

[brittle marsh]

it doesn't need to be complicated. If it worked like:

1. you update a mod
2. the mod manager asks if you want to keep the old file or the new file
3. success

There could be a more advanced option in 2 in addition to the whole file which would be great, but the system doesn't need to be complicated

[frank lotus]

sure, yeah

the relationship between 'game instance' and 'mods installed' is one-to-many

[brittle marsh]

though, then you have modified a mod... but Thunderstore mod mangers allow this per package version

[frank lotus]

i think the relationship between 'game instance' and 'modpack used as template' should be one-to-one

(it is presently also one-to-many, on thunderstore)

on Modrinth/Prism it is one-to-one but the launcher forgets what template you used

so updating your customised instance when the modpack gets updated is often not trivial

[brittle marsh]

I believe it actually should be this way. But the mod manager should be able to tell which would conflict with your already installed mod(pack)s

[frank lotus]

i mean

there are vanishingly few cases where someone would have more than 1 modpack which provides config files installed

a modpack is meant to be a curated/highly customised experience which consists of a bunch of mods and configuration which ties them all together

it doesn't make sense to install more than one of those

[brittle marsh]

Wait, what happens when I install a modpack on modrinth and do modifications on it, and then the modpack updates?

[frank lotus]

Like I said it's not trivial

I don't think there's an 'update modpack' button

[brittle marsh]

mm I see

[frank lotus]

The most reliable thing to do is make a new game instance, do your modifications again, copy across files which contain local settings

[brittle marsh]

And if this was thunderstore, we would only need a conflict resolver for config files. Though idk if it's actually much different for modrinth

[frank lotus]

Not true

Thunderstore is notoriously bad for updating modpacks

[brittle marsh]

oh?

[frank lotus]

No lockfiles!

So the best way to update a game instance is exactly the same as I described for Minecraft

[frank lotus]

This means transitive dependencies which are removed from the modpack get left behind when you update.

[brittle marsh]

wait so what would the lockfiles do in this case?

[brittle marsh]

get left behind, as in, stay in your mod profile?

[frank lotus]

Without a lockfile:
install foo which depends on bar, baz
now your dependencies look like: foo, bar, baz
foo updates and only depends on bar
now your dependencies still look like foo, bar, baz because there is no distinction between top-level dependencies and transitive, resolved dependencies

With a lockfile:
install foo which depends on bar, baz
now your dependencies look like: foo
and your lockfile looks like: foo, bar, baz

[frank lotus]

Yes

[brittle marsh]

I've solved this in my cli mod manager which supports TS because what I have is I guess somewhat of a lockfile? It tracks which packages you added explicitly and which are purely transitive dependencies

[frank lotus]

you should look at the format of e.g. pnpm-lock.yaml, package-lock.json, uv.lock (lockfiles for some well known/engineered package managers)

[brittle marsh]

I guess my lockfile is basically integrated into the mod profile data

so I could separate it

[frank lotus]

they should be kept seperate

[brittle marsh]

ye I've seen those, though never looked too deep into how exactly they are engineered to work

[frank lotus]

The idea is that into your package.json or analogous file goes your top-level dependency spec

i.e. version ranges are allowed

[brittle marsh]

oh right yeah that actually makes complete sense, and is something I need to implement

[frank lotus]

then you run a command like blabla resolve to resolve specific package versions which satisfy the dependency spec (or fail if unresolvable)

the resolved package set and their versions go into the lockfile

then finally blabla sync to install based on the existing lockfile

[brittle marsh]

yep!

[frank lotus]

so if you want to 'bump' dependencies you can just rerun blabla resolve + blabla sync again to update your dependencies while adhering to the version ranges you already defined in your main dependency spec

[brittle marsh]

in my cli the adding of mods actually only updates the profile data and I a update command to update and actually install the packages. It's mostly temporary for now as I just implemented it, but yeah

[frank lotus]

i am using the uv names for these commands, i recommend sticking to them because they do make a lot of sense

actually uv uses lock instead of resolve, but either works well

Commands:
  auth     Manage authentication
  run      Run a command or script
  init     Create a new project
  add      Add dependencies to the project
  remove   Remove dependencies from the project
  version  Read or update the project's version
  sync     Update the project's environment
  lock     Update the project's lockfile
  export   Export the project's lockfile to an alternate format
  tree     Display the project's dependency tree
  format   Format Python code in the project
  tool     Run and install commands provided by Python packages
  python   Manage Python versions and installations
  pip      Manage Python packages with a pip-compatible interface
  venv     Create a virtual environment
  build    Build Python packages into source distributions and wheels
  publish  Upload distributions to an index
  cache    Manage uv's cache
  self     Manage the uv executable
  help     Display documentation for a command

Note add does automatically run lock and sync, at least somewhat

[brittle marsh]

I guess though that for a cli mod manager, it doesn't need to- well actually, why not. It should already at the very least install mods on trying to launch the game, though idk if that is a good idea or not to delay installing mods, but it does make building a mod profile a bit faster

thanks a lot for the info btw!

[frank lotus]

that's ok :)

[lusty parcel]

Is the new lethalLib version (1.2.0) compatible with v73 too or only V80? The changelog doesn't say anything about that

[crimson mauve]

Only v80

[lusty parcel]

Alright, thank you

[sweet mesa]

How do I go about registering a map hazard in the v80 version? I'm attempting to port the Missile Turrets mod but it registers them via "SpawnableMapObject", and in practice none of them are spawning on any moon, so I presume that's outdated.

[tough path]

I think you’d have to use another lib

[sweet mesa]

And I presume LLL doesn't have a way to register indoor map hazards atp?

[pulsar thicket]

i dont see anything in LLL's github that mentions map objects