ADDRESS LZ CAMPING APPROPRIATELY!

[fervent wyvern]

I never said they are not legitimate but I am saying they are not really effective... Mortars can be easily missed, you can't really manually scout without actually going to the LZ either and red PvP circles serve completely different purpose altogether and don't address the subject of the thread at all

also sending mortars to an LZ that you don't have a clue if someone one is camping at all and if they do you have no way of knowing where seems like just another money sink I think you mentioned earlier...

[ionic sage]

That's exactly the issue I see with the drones as well.

How do they not become a money sink if you have no idea.

[fervent wyvern]

uhm if you send a drone and it detects nothing then you have an idea that there isn't anyone there at the time so it serves it's purpose... if someone happens to get there between the drone scouted and player arrived then that's just a chance that can 100% happen but if someone is there camping at the LZ then at least you'd know with said drone... Also if it's ok to have mortars as money sink then why not okay to have drones as such as well...?

especially if they can prove to be way more useful than mortars

the drones would still be an option... not like you'd have to use them either...

[ionic sage]

The falacy is that no one uses mortars to clear LZs not because they're to expensive, but because LZ camping is not a serious concern.

[fervent wyvern]

that's no falacy as I never claimed it be a serious concern as a fact... I only did say it is just my opinion that it is an issue that should be addressed regardless of its magnitude

[fervent wyvern]

also this is an unquantifiable and unverifiable claim even if it's true

[ionic sage]

It is though alone by personal experience as I've said I've had it happen literally just a few times in my entire 2000+ hours of game time. The people in this thread laying claim to the unlikelihood of it occurring are all valid experiences and claims. And by the mere ratio of the current thread speaks to that.

That should get the same weight as your own experience claiming it happens much more justifying this suggestion.

[fervent wyvern]

30 odd people in this thread doesn't translate to 30k daily players so no it isn't... It's just different opinions and only because most people in this thread share a similar one that still doesn't mean that it translates to all of the player base... But I will be charitable and even if most of the player base shares the same opinion (which again we have absolutely 0 way of asserting) that doesn't change the fact that there's still players that do share my opinion of it being an issue that should be addressed again REGARDLESS of its' magnitude...

[fervent wyvern]

that is a falacy as I never said it happens much more either... Like I just said IN MY OPINION it is an issue that should be addressed REGARDLESS of how often it occurs...

[ionic sage]

You would agree though that if 100 players said yes and 50 said no, that that would be a valid representation of player's experiences.

[fervent wyvern]

to make any research based on samples be translatable to much broader amount of people the sample size has to be significant enough and I would argue that 150 people is just not significant enough and we're not even close to 50 people in this thread yet...

[ionic sage]

I can tell that you're passionate about this which isn't a bad thing at all, it's actually great to see such a suggestion getting the attention it deserves. I appreciate you engaging with me, I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. You may want to consider literally surveying people in game to get more data on it.

I mean this suggestion literally rests on whether it occurs or doesn't occur and the more data we have to back up this claim can only serve to benefit the suggestion, but right now I'm just not sure we know enough about it to even consider it a problem.

[zinc nimbus]

This has been my argument the whole time. If you don’t know they are there, then the game should NOT be”help” you or “tell” you someone is there. Period.

Nice personal attack.

[fervent wyvern]

And likewise brother thank you for this civil and creative debate and I appreciate your feedback and opinion as well... God bless my man!

[fervent wyvern]

that's your opinion wehich again I disagree with. Period!

[fervent wyvern]

one can only take so much of being spoken to in a condescending manner before retaliating himself which I btw reminded that person multiple times before that if he can't engage in a civil debate he should move on yet he persisted with his condescending talk so yeah I get what you give in the end...

[zinc nimbus]

So a COD recon drone… no.

[fervent wyvern]

no one said COD recon drone... that's how you're misinterpreting and mischaracterizing what's being suggested...

[fervent wyvern]

so a GZW scout drone... yes!

[zinc nimbus]

You mean the other 29970 players playing the game and not complaining here that LZ camping is as much of an issue as you say it is?

[fervent wyvern]

which btw are used by military IRL...!

[fervent wyvern]

and you spoke with the almost 30k player to know that right...? Also that's a fallacy as i never argued the magnitude of the issue just it's existance...

[zinc nimbus]

That’s exactly what a cod recon drone does, you hit a button and it lets you know if people are there or not. Like i said before, if it’s not a player controlled drone, it should not be implemented

[spark girder]

tbf prob like 19k of them are on pve and that may even be generous

*not generous enough

[fervent wyvern]

that's your opinion and we can agree to disagree... player controlled drones on the other hand would give to much freedom thus making them even more OP...!

[zinc nimbus]

True!

[fervent wyvern]

hmmm I wonder why...

[zinc nimbus]

No, a drone you call if that tells you “there are enemies near the LZ” is insane.

[fervent wyvern]

again your opinion... what you're proposing is insane in my opinion so where does that leave us...?

[zinc nimbus]

Probably because they are playing the game the way the devs intended.

[fervent wyvern]

and you spoke with the devs to know how their intentions yeah...?

[zinc nimbus]

In a place where you have been ratioed into oblivion for your suggestions and inability to think critically.

[zinc nimbus]

Look at the steam page.

[spark girder]

who knows, plenty of reasons. I'm sure lz camping is a reason for some of em, especially .1 players.

[fervent wyvern]

nice personal attack... if I have inability to think critically you have an inability to think at all... Period!

[fervent wyvern]

that may be true which still proves it to be a reason and proves LZ camping exists regardless of magnitude

[zinc nimbus]

At least I gave some thoughtful realistic suggestions, you want the whole thing to cater to you’re inability to pick a proper LZ

[fervent wyvern]

like you told me to watch the release trailer which said nothing that you claimed it said...?

[zinc nimbus]

Like the 3 suggestions I made yesterday… you are not paying attention

[fervent wyvern]

"thoughtful realistic suggestions" LMAO... like I said you're unable to think... keep in mind I will respond to a pesonal attack from you with more personal beacuse like I said before one can only take so much of it... and if you can't engage in a civil dabate you should just move on...

[fervent wyvern]

why am I to cater to your suggestions in the first place... what makes you the ultimate authority over what is a realistic suggestion and what isn't other than your self-proclaimed poisiton...?

[fervent wyvern]

you didn't give these suggestions except the last one they were already discussed here before you even get here so maybe go back and read more of the thread...

[zinc nimbus]

I won’t move on, what you’re suggesting is only catering to people like you that think something is way more of an issue than it is. That’s the path the Tarkov devs took and that’s not a place I want this game to go.

[fervent wyvern]

if you can't engage in a civil dabte you need to move on otherwise make sure you are being civil

[zinc nimbus]

No, they all weren’t. The multiple LZs (which is the only way to really mitigate the “issue”) was not brought up till I said something.

[fervent wyvern]

again why would I cater to what you want...?

[zinc nimbus]

I’m being civil. What you gunna do report me lol

[fervent wyvern]

I did say that...

[zinc nimbus]

Because clearly everyone agrees it’s not nearly as big a problem as you say it is.

[fervent wyvern]

you are now but you aren't always and if you will continue to not be civil then eventually yes....

[zinc nimbus]

Cool, you still said I can’t think so here you are.

[fervent wyvern]

after you said it first... so here you are...

[zinc nimbus]

Cool report me then. If this is what I get banned for, so be it.

[tough fern]

He doesn't need to cause I'm watching. End it. Also, Warfare is the intended mode for the game so I'll correct you there as well. They just focus PvE elements of the game.

[zinc nimbus]

👍 noted. My suggestions still stand.

[fervent wyvern]

one is your suggestion... other 2 were suggested by other users before you even got here so you don't get to take credit for them

[zinc nimbus]

Wow let it go.

[fervent wyvern]

you should really move on at this stage

[zinc nimbus]

Why? Multiple LZs wouldn’t mitigate the issue?

[fervent wyvern]

There is already multiple LZs tho isn't there or do you mean multiple landing locations for any given LZ?

[zinc nimbus]

That’s what the suggestion posted said.

[fervent wyvern]

As in like a dynamic LZ? Yeah sure it could be imemented alongside the drones and smoke mortars

It is a good suggestion

Just like smoke mortars and drones are

[zinc nimbus]

Thank you. It would just need to be 3-4 landing zones within an area of each main LZ. And it would be easy to implement.

[zinc nimbus]

Yes, player controlled drones, and player launched mortars. I agree

[fervent wyvern]

As you can see I moved away from my initial suggestion of detecting and bombing lz campers as people here came up with better suggestion as I said I was sure there would be better ones

[zinc nimbus]

Anything automatic or “the game detecting” a certain behavior is a no go.

[fervent wyvern]

I wouldn't mind control drones but the caveat of these is that people could really scout anything then and my sole issue is just LZ camping... now while I myself am not against scouting anything it is outside of the scope of this topic and self controlled drones could be way more OP than automatic drones just give text or audio cues without reveling exact players locations which manual drones would

Also manually controlled drones would have to be viable so thermal drones would have to be available for LZs surrounded by thick foliage and for night situations

[zinc nimbus]

You or someone else suggested jammers. But that’s a whole new can of worms that I don’t necessarily want the devs to have to tackle until the game is further along.
They can add thermal drones (if they even do) when they add thermal sights. That seems fair

[fervent wyvern]

I believe @cinder yew suggested jammers as a countermeasure against drones and I'm all for it as well since like he said they are already in the game so it would be cool if we could use them. As to tackling the implementation of the jammer they would ba a lot easier to implement than drones so they could be added together with the drones if the devs would choose to add them in the first place. I have no issue with thermal scopes or sights being added at all regardless of drones. So I'm glad we finally agree on some things

[cinder yew]

do you know of the smoke tactics Helo's dropping squads used during Vietnam, and the Rhodesian bush wars (fire force tactics)?

I ask this because much earlier in the forum, i mentioned perhaps implementing a live "scount and secure LZ camping" and maybe since you said earlier that it's unrealistic for Helo's to be shooting their own smokes. The player that accepted the mission would be given a smoke to perhaps give concealment to the LZ? But i do think you're also right to believe that adding any features or implementations in the game could overcomplicate the game mechanics, also give unfair advantages that would be unrealistic and dispel the immersion.

Though with the suspension of disbelief for the sake of game balancing and "mainstream enjoyment" would it be acceptable?

i would agree

[short aspen]

if someone camps an lz you fly back and fight them teaach them a lesson, you have godmode anyway as you get of heli so no excuse to not fight back

[ripe terrace]

Holy shit I’m start doing that then take their loot and take their gun take the gas chamber out then put it in the grass then message them the wrong location

😏

[mystic solar]

I always pull the charging handle out on my kills and put the gun back on their body unless I need the gun for money💀😂

[ripe terrace]

Fr

[silk echo]

Why not set a proxy system if players within 200m of Lz countermeasures are deployed from heli ie smokescreen/flares

At least then it’d give players a chance to get to some sort of cover/concealment

[mystic tusk]

I was orginally against LZ Camping, but I read through this thread and many good points were made.

**In my opinion **- LZ camping is okay, The reasoning behind that is LZ camping protects POI's from enemy factions being able to Infil without problems and possible kill any friendlies in the area

If you have a task or your doing a loot run on a POI and you know of / die of a LZ camper, you can just redeploy to another LZ, maybe one further away, and walk to the POI, it provides a safer route.

I dont play much PVP (I used to main PVP in 0.3) but LZ camping is a viable, realistic strategy that doesnt stop anyone from completing their goals, only hinders them until a workaround is found such as using a further away LZ

I know it sucks to die to someone LZ camping, but its a genuine strategy anyone can use including yourself, and your playing a game that strives to be as realistic as possible

[sudden monolith]

I’ve never understood the inclination to look at every problem as an inherent design flaw that needs to have 5 clumsy workarounds made for it that in each their own way make the game worse, to fix something that you can technically calculate your way out of - I rarely use the most common LZ locations unless I deem the risk worth it, or the risk low enough that I’m confident I won’t die.

This is effectively a non issue in 04 as we don’t need to exfoliate nearly as often as before due to tasks being completable in the field.

Just take the less used LZ spots and avoid the problem entirely

[trim stump]

Exfoliating? Man, your skin must be sliky smooth.

In all seriousness, there's a lot of truth to what you said.

Not every problem is a dev problem. There are things devs can't "fix" or "nerf", such as teamwork and good/bad player decisions. I was saying, back in .1, that the solution to LZ camping was going to be more LZs and some more walking...here we are.

[sudden monolith]

iPhone autocorrect, didn’t proof read - exfiltrate is what I tried to write

[trim stump]

Don't worry, my autocorrect failed to fix silky LMAO.

[sudden monolith]

Oh shit, I see it now, lol

[fickle epoch]

Changes to sprint / stamina imho indirectly buffed lz camping so I wouldnt mind ppl getting off heli having no leg stamina drain for the duration of god mode to have more cover within sprint distance

[sage fern]

Can't you throw grenades off the side of the heli? Just pop your own smokes before fully landing

[sudden monolith]

You cannot, anymore