0.4 AI Discussion

[pliant geyser]

Respectfully you should pick up a rifle and go in a real combat zone if you want a ultra realistic experience.

[obtuse moth]

Get a grip

[pliant geyser]

This. TB soldiers with stock ak 12 hitting you fine at 100 meters lmao

[steep tree]

Quite literally what people in this thread are asking for

[pliant geyser]

Just showing you that both extremes are bad.

[pliant geyser]

TBH some people here seem to want to die at every peek

[obtuse moth]

Go take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror then give yourself an uppercut

Peek a different angle if you dont tap ai you crayon eater

[pliant geyser]

Earlier this night i went to MS with my friend. Perfect run until i decided to kust run outside

Got punished by instant death and thats normal

Just dont make everyone in lamang special forces

[pliant geyser]

Someones mad

[robust coral]

In reality, when you penetrate an AI's lungs, it doesn't stop them from sprinting quickly to nearby cover as if they weren't injured at all. Meanwhile, a player can only hold their breath for 10 seconds, and after being hit in the lungs, they lose nearly 90% of their combat capability.

[pliant geyser]

My fault for giving my opinion. I can see you can't control your emotions

Usually around 14yo you learn to do that

[obtuse moth]

Opinions are like assholes nobody wants what your selling

[pliant geyser]

Wow

If you can't debate without insulting you already lost.

[obtuse moth]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-hand-when-boredom-strikes-gif-13638076

[robust coral]

That's right, this kind of thing happens easily. I think as the AI's alert state duration increases, their accuracy also goes up. So it's very easy for me to get instantly headshot by an AI hiding in the distance the moment I leave cover, even if it wasn't me who alerted the AI in the first place.

[pliant geyser]

They love going full auto now too

Makes it more enjoyable

[obtuse moth]

Ai doesnt push you when they catch you in the lungs either just hit ya damn shots and stop looking for the path of least resistance holy shit

[pliant geyser]

More tense

[obtuse moth]

You can tell whos never played an actually difficult game for the challenge of it

[pliant geyser]

Well i play to have fun with my friends

But you probably wouldnt know how that feels

[obtuse moth]

Nintendo switch is waiting for you man go right ahead

[steep tree]

I have yet to see any accuracy difference. I. 0.4 there have been 3 things the AI lack: reaction to taking fire, consistency in hit probability, and the ability to utilize small unit tactics at any level. When you read thru this thread youll find those are what the community is debating at the core and MFG is taking steps in that direction.

The thing that gets overlooked is this was advertised as a hardcore shooter based on Roadside Picnic and right now it's not living up to the hardcore part of it.

[pliant geyser]

Tbh I didnt see muuch advertisement for it so idk about it. I startted playing around a month ago

[obtuse moth]

Can tell

[pliant geyser]

So much rage in you

Who touched you man ?

Hurt*

[obtuse moth]

Nah just sick of rubish takes from sitting president of the HOA

On ya bike karen

[pliant geyser]

So much assumption

I paid for an early access game and the devs ask for feedback

I give feedback

So what is your problem exactly ?

[obtuse moth]

Expect my feedback on your shit feed back

[pliant geyser]

Ok Chris Kyle

[robust coral]

Haha, maybe you really could keep charging after getting your lungs shot out. I look forward to you having infinite ammo and a skull that can stop M855A1 in real life.

[pliant geyser]

Why dont you go in Ukraine ? Show us how its done

And if you get killed well

Just hit your shots eh ?

[obtuse moth]

Yeah cause wanting a difficult game means im macho doesnt it? I can tell youre low T by looking at your DP but you dont need more advertising than that tbh

[pliant geyser]

And if you still cant tap them

Just peek a different angle

[obtuse moth]

Lmao so bad

[pliant geyser]

Anyone got something intersting to say ? Rambo over there been giving us a whole lotta yappacino

[obtuse moth]

Imagine getting shit on by the ai in this game now how shit can you get are you playng MNK with hulk hands

[robust coral]

I think you can test this: fire your gun near the AI, then stand still. Based on my observations, the AI will start by missing, then begin hitting your limbs or torso (at this point you need to stop the bleeding to avoid dying), and finally it will land a headshot. You can clearly feel the hit rate increasing over time and with each shot fired.

[pliant geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/smart-monkey-listening-monkey-speech-bubble-dumb-lion-lion-yelling-gif-977388511909412427

[robust coral]

Haha, sorry.

Another method: aggro an AI but don't kill it, let it know you're behind cover, get suppressed by the AI for about 30 seconds, then sprint out of cover. I believe you'll have an extremely high death rate.

[pliant geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/chinese-guy-explaining-explaining-chinese-gif-22173137

[steep tree]

Not what I meant. Devlog said they increased accuracy in 0.4.2 over the previous build. I was saying I haven't seen that change.

[steep tree]

English

[robust coral]

Oh, if that's what you're talking about, I personally don't notice it very clearly. But since they said so, they must have done something, right? And there are indeed people asking for AI accuracy to be increased.

[steep tree]

I am one of them. Mainly because if I run up on a guy and we are close enough to smell each other's breath, it should be a crap shoot on who comes out on top.

Not how it is currently with an artificial nerf to the Ai accuracy to ensure they don't get a first round hit.

[robust coral]

That's right, it's very reasonable to ask for a change. But I think the current accuracy ramp-up curve is the problem — it needs to be adjusted, not simply increased or decreased.
The AI's hit rate is too low at the start of an engagement: even if you're standing right in front of it, its first shot won't hit you. But after a while, it becomes too high. I've seen a poor guy get instantly hit by five shots from an AI using an SMG from 100 meters away while he was sprinting. This doesn't feel like a human at all.

Simply put, increase the hit rate at the beginning and lower the upper limit of the hit rate later on. That would be much better than the current experience, and there would be no need to add any new judgment mechanisms for now. Just by balancing the numbers under the existing design, this could serve as a temporary solution until they want to implement more sophisticated AI shooting mechanics.

Of course, it would be even better if the bullet cavitation effect could be rolled back to version 0.3.😄

[main trout]

AI accuracy still needs to be improved. I'll leave it to the developer how exactly this will be done.

[dense anvil]

Difference between the wrong kind of hard and the right kind of hard

No one wants terminators. I don't know a single person who does

[dense anvil]

It's slightly better. They also aim more center mass which is nice

[obtuse moth]

i want terminators now you know 1

https://tenor.com/view/exterminador-do-futuro-atirando-gif-13876121017595533168

[dense anvil]

They aim better but god damn they still only hit limbs lmao. I'm burning through bandages and tourniquets

[maiden gate]

Lab Rat is quite happy indeed

[jagged ether]

i always use the syringe to stop the bleed but bandages i bring 8 nowadays xD

[hasty hazel]

AI still too easy.

dont creep on this shit. slam that knob. riiiiiight over to max

[wide granite]

Sounds cool on paper and can add some immersion but in practice, people will grief and just stay there so no respawns happen.

[pseudo hamlet]

Ngl they should just give them free will, i mean jsut let them learn throo observation how players move, peak, shoot, and push, let them roam everywhere in their area not on enabled line, let them curse at u (let us on/off in settings so ppl who dont like it or kids will be able to play without any problem)

Remember that more dangerous scavs=more fun

Make us suffer from ai :D.

[rigid surge]

no

take off the knob, reach into the dial device, and push it beyond max until it breaks

then leave it alone

[steep tree]

Finally got hit today. Spread is more even and got put in to a coma. So thats working better.

[dense anvil]

I want them to keep going in this direction for sure

[dense anvil]

It worked like this in 0.1 and people didn't really abuse it. You'd just hop off the POI 100m away and shit would respawn, then you go back and complete your kill task

[clear patio]

Someone else was suggesting the AI knows if you have good body armour on and that they can't penetrate it with their crappy ammo so they aim for the limbs.
I just got knocked into a coma by an LAA guy with an m16, his first burst was 5 bullets to the knee bang im in a coma

[stark hazel]

Well trained if they can tell what and if any plates player is wearing. I don't believe that's the case. It would be rather bug or bad design imo.

[dense anvil]

That's giving them a lot of credit I wish they deserved lol

[worldly rose]

Some trustworthy players tested it and I have noticed it personally too, they just shoot in a cone shape around you, if you get hit its because your in the way of the bullet, they dont target limbs or anything

Stand in front of a building and get shot at a little, kill them and turn around, you will notice a circle shape of holes on the building

[dense anvil]

Yeah I also remember from demonstration videos their aim drifts up towards the head

[wind horizon]

So, I have finally had some time to play after the patch, and holy shit they absolutely fucked the AI.
I get making more of them be in T3 locations, but I have been consistently 1 tapped through bushes seemingly randomly. having the AI be more aggressive and suppress and push and flank was a very welcome change. Cranking up their accuracy was not.

[dense anvil]

Are you engaging from concealment often? Their accuracy did genuinely need an upgrade.

I've only been one tapped once so far and that was when I was engaging a group of LAF from behind a tiny ass tree and they were shooting at me for a while already, a dude flanked right and shot me in the face. Honestly that's pretty fair.

A lot of us got used to the braindead AI so we'll have to relearn how to find effective cover again and shoot and move if we want to hit T3 areas. It's to a point now that I feel I sorta needed another person with me and I randomly asked this guy if he wanted to stick together to task in FN. It absolutely fucked, very fun

[burnt lance]

I've learned the hard way as well, basically once they see you, they really do see you and will track you with absolute precision, the only way is to move out of hard cover. Don't bother with using grenades to take out enemies without revealing your location, the impact of the grenade causes your phone to ring so they know where you are. You have to completely reposition to break that aggro, they will still fire at where you were though.
Pre-fire, peek, reposition and most importantly do not treat them like you would in an actual realistic scenario or you will get booped. And don't forget they are tanky as heck, and weapon jams are coming. We will suffer trying to actually kill anyone. Perhaps they will add diplomacy so killing isn't needed?
If you have range and hard cover they will likely not aggro onto you. Sometimes they will stare at you, dance a bit, but not fire at you.

[dense anvil]

Until they can fix ballistics to how it was I don't think they should make AI any harder. Shooting a dude in the head and him holding his head for a bit and shooting back at me while I'm still actively shooting him is ridiculous sometimes. If I don't aim right between the eyes or a little above the jaw I don't kill

[burnt lance]

Yep, I just started to rapidly tap their head to ensure there are as many bullets going into it as possible, otherwise I shoot the abdomen

[dense anvil]

This guy took a total of 6 shots, 7 but the last one was shot after he already died. Strange part is I think some of the rounds deflected from his armor don't show up as a bruise so it looks like 4 shots. 1 round was stopped and there is no indication of another it ever hitting him.

I even have a video I took beforehand for the test

Then we have this absolute unit

[quasi olive]

Usually when there is a diamond outlined wound that means its more than 1 shot

So that guy tanked at least 2 rounds to the head

[dense anvil]

Froma round rated to pen NIJ III armor lol

[quasi olive]

The cavitation (which i very much doubt is in the game anymore) would have turned his brains to mush

I really think they've completely done away with cavitation, tumbling is still there, i suspect they thought cavitation was causing enemies to die to quickly and wanted to "gamify" the system so we could have enemies like in the Division?

Lets "gamify" durability
Lets "gamify" the economy
Lets "gamify" the ballistics
Lets "gamify" vision/stealth
Who wants to bet on what they gamify next

[dense anvil]

I suspect they are trying to simplify the game, given a lot of changes this time around contributed to making the game easier and more Ubislop-like

[burnt lance]

The Ai are just built different.

[viral quail]

Then what happens to ‘’Every Moves Matters’’

[burnt lance]

Cavities are still there, likely we're dealing with hitreg or something like that

As you can see my 45 acp damaged both lungs(and 45 acp doesn't have a big cavity compared to 556), plus those things are difficult to model in general

[quasi olive]

Tumbling is still working

[dense anvil]

They said they got rid of tumbling, so even if cavities are there they are weaker than they should be

[burnt lance]

I suspect they buffed light wounds, a singular light wound now causes you to bleed for a few hundred ml of blood if it hits you right, which is actually lethal, but not as bad as a medium or severe.
Severe is too unlikely on AI

[quasi olive]

They've also said tumbling is there, so i have no idea

[dense anvil]

Lol Idk which it is then

[quasi olive]

Maybe they don't know either

😄

[burnt lance]

You'll need more than one enemy to test it, tumbling is notoriously inconsistent even IRL

[quasi olive]

We aren't basing this off 1 enemy

Ballistics have been wildly off since 0.4, they were pretty good in 0.3

[burnt lance]

Mhm, they did feel good. When 0.4 came out suddenly we are dealing with Abrams given human form

[quasi olive]

I rarely had these issues in 0.3, the odd one, but that i can chalk up to lag etc

0.4 has been consistently inconsistent lol

[burnt lance]

Inconsistent, extremely tanky enemies that don't get disabled, headshots don't always pen the helmet despite ammo being a few tiers above, I just gave up personally and just started shooting more. The downside is my guns are dying faster

One time I shot an enemy in the chest, they went down clutching their chest and I went to finish them, they lift their gun with a feeble hand and head tap me with one shot. I then went back to get my body and fell through the world.
Needless to say I was angry ;(

[quasi olive]

I play every now and then and then come across a load of issues with AI and then log off lol

[dense anvil]

Unrelated, but should I pay for WinRAR or just install 7zip

[quasi olive]

7zip is just as good, you won't notice a difference

[mint silo]

they placed more emphasis on certain ammo types/precision wounds instead of 0.3 which any shot could essentially drop

that and more people got body armor

and higher tier armor at that

i dont fully mind it, i havent had too many big issues with it

[rigid surge]

Something definitely feels off to me too. It's not that AI are too difficult it's that the damage model is making less sense to me with every patch.

For example the amount of times a non-helmet enemy grabs their head after headshot is way too high. I'm sure grazing is possible but it seems to be happening way too frequently if that's the reason.

[mint silo]

are you using your standard rifle-pistols or the tiny 4.6

[rigid surge]

m995

[mint silo]

weird

[quasi olive]

I don't play PVP but from the friends that do play PVP say the ballistics are just like 0.3 against players but its AI that's changed

[rigid surge]

and with AKs i use BP rounds

[mint silo]

we have the same model that the bots do

they only say that because more bots have armor

anyone saying theres a difference between us and them beyond no coma is just a slowhead

[rigid surge]

Yea the TTK on players is very low and feels normal. With my group we joke that AI are much tankier than players. A short full auto burst will consistently drop a player most of the time. With AI you can only rely on clean headshots.

[mint silo]

cannot relate

center mass shots have still been consistent when im not using ammo thats likely gonna get stopped by armor

[rigid surge]

Players also seem to bleed out much faster. One of the reasons I like 5.45x39 BP is it tends to cause heavy bleeds more consistently. A couple shots on a player usually means they'll bleed out within seconds. Not the same for AI.

[quasi olive]

So many inconsistencies, Residual isn't having problems in PVP but Knifer has lol, and you can see that even PVE players have both ends of the spectrum too 😄

[mint silo]

should emphasize im an AR user

i almost never touch anything thats not 5.56

so i speak for the ARs

not the other calibers

except 9mm, 9mm works fantastic anyone saying otherwise is lying

[quasi olive]

I have heard that non 556 and AK rounds seem to work better against AI

[rigid surge]

Nah M995 is the best in my experience hands down. It just kills faster in more situations.

5.45 BS rounds have been much worse for me than BP rounds. I can only assume it's the velocity difference between them because the pen values are supposed to be the same.

[dense anvil]

Funny part is 4.6 is the most consistent for me with headshots

[quasi olive]

Would be hilarious if there is some bug that the durability modifiers are messing with the ballistics 😄

[mint silo]

4.6 is always gonna be inconsistent

with its 50,000 gauge needle ass projectile

but its fun to shoot

like really fun

[dense anvil]

The MP7 is my favorite gun to use. I almost exclusively use it and the MP5

[mint silo]

i might try to run it again

it is incredibly light weight so

another w

[dense anvil]

Two to the chest drops AI almost every time. Or one to the head

[wide granite]

I use nothing but 995. AI is definitely not consistent. Ive put 20 rounds into some AI and they still just dance around and shoot at you. This is after of course their dizzy dance after being hit in the head. Some AI will take a shot or two. Others will tank half a clip.

[rigid surge]

libra snail is great for ai 😄

[mint silo]

i love LA

LS

the only pistol round i ever will use

[worldly rose]

Now show us the 1hr video of you missing

[quasi olive]

I would never get that kind of TTK with 556 😄

[worldly rose]

I do notice some big rounds are worse than smaller rounds

Been running a mosin with LPS ammo and it sucks even tho it pens, some enemies take like 5 shots to the chest

[quasi olive]

Maybe they secretly took off cavitation on 556 and AK rounds to "balance" them 😄

[dense anvil]

Magnifier and predator lasers on an MP5 goes surprisingly hard

[dense anvil]

First time ever repairing armor this patch

[quasi olive]

Who saw this coming 😄

[rigid surge]

That's actually a pretty reasonable take haha

[quasi olive]

I've been reading up on the UE5.7 update that is supposedly coming and been reading that most of the AI changes will be coming from the 5.6 update that is in the 5.7 overall update

But there are notable updats with 5.7 too

[maiden gate]

That's cool

[worldly rose]

Did she post this in GZW chat?

[dense anvil]

#🗣️︱feedback-polls

[worldly rose]

Why the fuck is the hidden for me :(

[quasi olive]

Lol i think there was a little notification to add it a few days back or week back or something at the top of the list of channels

[worldly rose]

I pinned it to the top of the discord so I will see all polls now :)

Genuinly didnt know this existed and I have been in the server for a few months now

[quasi olive]

Its only just been active since those polls came out, you haven't missed anything

[worldly rose]

The Poll for darker nights is so incredibly subjective lmao, completely depends on persons Monitor, eyesight, settings etc xD

Also none of them apply to me

[quasi olive]

Yup for sure, really hope they dive deeper into those questions rather than just taking all the messages in the poll threads, as in asking specific questions etc

[worldly rose]

Maybe they are just looking for raw data, the devs scour the discord most days, especially any suggestions posts relating to 0.4 features

[quasi olive]

Except for durability.... i know i sound like an old record, but still miffed that the durability conversation was just pushed aside

But yes in any case i know they do

[worldly rose]

And those damned red circles, its been one of the most popular suggestion since 0.4 dropped and nothing has been said about it lmao

[quasi olive]

Thats very very true

[maiden gate]

I don't even play PvP and I feel for the PvP guys

[worldly rose]

Pretty sure its actually **The **most popular atm

[worldly rose]

Its one of the reasons I am not touching PvP

[dense anvil]

Red circles are the reason I don't touch PvP much anymore

[quasi olive]

I'll go one further

[worldly rose]

Holy

[dense anvil]

The ratio on this one is almost as good as red circles

[quasi olive]

I think the durability, red circles and AI have been the most talked about

And when i say durability, none of us in that thread want the durability to go away, i think we've all come to the conclusion we like durability etc, just that some major reworks of the system is needed

But im getting off track on a different thread

[worldly rose]

I think we are slowly reaching the point of GZW, that the devs really need to take a step back and not add anything new, dedicate a big patch or update to just fixing the issues we players are having

[quasi olive]

I honestly thought 0.4 was that 😄

Kinda just brought a whole host of other problems, or really brought forward the problems it already had to the front

[worldly rose]

There are issues still going back to before 0.3, and they are being missed because MFG dont have enough time to fix it as they keep adding shit

Well Red circles was 0.3, but AI was a problem before then too, and I gaurantee you theres plenty of bugs that are yet to be patched

Atleast they are working on the AI issues atm

[dense anvil]

I liked where AI were in 0.3.5

[worldly rose]

But we really need a dedicated update to just fixing the game at its current state, not adding more stuff that will eventually bring more bugs than enjoyment

[quasi olive]

True true, they will have to do that at some point just stop with all the content and just solely work on the bugs and balancing etc

[dense anvil]

Though if they keep going the way they are going now with AI they'll be even better

[quasi olive]

True, as i said further above i read into UE5.6 and 5.7 and i can see what they were talking about upgrading the engine to that will help with AI, there is some major additions and reworks of AI systems in those updates, among other things that will help with performance etc (foliage geometry, lumen etc)

[maiden gate]

Any help for AI performance costs would be great

[worldly rose]

One of the other big posts is about loot, the "hotspots" that were created are just causing more issues than intended,

The majority of the playerbase only loot the big T3 locations nowadays, but either way go so https://discord.com/channels/1166365362158313522/1490726724764303411 if you wanna discuss it, not gonna take over this post lol

[quasi olive]

And a side tangent, if they can implement the voxelised foliage that is in 5.7 in the Skalla engine, that would massively help performance especially with PIPs and help with the god awful pop in

[maiden gate]

I know I was having some issues at FN yesterday with stuff rendering incorrectly in PiP

More so than usual

[worldly rose]

I have heard quite a few people mention having performance issues with 4.2, and weird visual bugs

[maiden gate]

But yeah another UE engine update would be huge it sounds like for AI

Using single player tarkov as an example with Solarint's SAIN mod, the AI was pretty legit but you could instantly notice the computational burden.

[quasi olive]

Another tangent, preview for 5.8 is out and that has implemented a new lumen system where it uses probes for lower end system rather than ray traced illumination, which means for lower end systems you'll get way more performance for only a slight loss in fidelity

[quasi olive]

Big time, i do believe there must be more ppl out there that are good with AI, lets hope the team at MFG can do something with it, i believe i saw they are recruiting more AI devs

[maiden gate]

[quasi olive]

https://www.madfingergames.com/careers

[dense anvil]

Me and my dinosaur pc needed this

[quasi olive]

Never really read their careers page but it kinda gives a little insight to the AI systems they are working with

[maiden gate]

[quasi olive]

Anyone wanna send over the Careers page to Solarint? 😄 I know hes fairly new at Incursion 😄

[maiden gate]

[dense anvil]

We can only dream

[hasty hazel]

still got issues with micro lights. hope epic fix that

[waxen lily]

so ai fixed ? its little bit okey but still to easy now ai is not glitching

[vivid smelt]

People have been speed running the tier 3 locations with pistols only. I would dread going into them, now feels like easy work…

[wide granite]

On one hand I think AI is too easy. On the other hand some of them have wallhacks again and shoot you through 2 concrete walls while following you through doors and crap exactly. Some of them are also still too spongy and unresponsive to getting lit up. Some of them still deflect multiple headshots. Those things need to be fixed more before they make them tougher IMO. Some of them seem to be more advanced and will flank you and stuff which I find to be fun.

[dense anvil]

AI genuinely give you so much time to line up a shot any decent player can just headtap all the FN AI with a glock

[carmine stream]

Some folks even settled for nade & flashbang and knife.

[hasty hazel]

thats why this game loses players so fast, ppl get bored

[viral quail]

Hope to see 0.5 put an end to this

[toxic crescent]

Also, as “immersive” as they’ve designed it to be, it’s not immersive at all, because of the design. The persistent world, single map choice makes it so areas are always wiped or in the process of respawning. Can you imagine, at the 1.0 release on someone’s first play through they get to the end zone and there’s nothing there but a bunch of players wandering around waiting for enemies or bosses to respawn? It’s horrible.

It feels tolerable now because of the area that we’re all spread across but the end zone being the middle of the map is going to be a disaster with 48 players crammed in what will essentially be a town.

[dense anvil]

Hopefully it isn't that small and is actually a decent challenge. I miss when making tactical choices mattered

[vivid smelt]

You are pretty much describing every WoW supplement release 🫡

[main trout]

Looks like no harder AI in 0.4.4.0, unfortunately.

[lusty badge]

“I have 2k hours and I feel like it’s not challenging me any more”.

I get that this is something that customisable server rules (like arma reforger has) would solve for those looking for an absolutely brutal experience. However if we all have to play the same version of the game, it’s probably going to need to be relatively accessible for a new player (under 50hrs).

And “just play in starter town, noob” is not a viable solution to this.

[dense anvil]

I agree. However, being accessible for a new player isn't being able to stroll through FN while Lollipop plays on the loudspeakers

[lusty badge]

Haha agreed. I still get slapped around sometimes though.

I think the people with so many hours understand the rhythm and weaknesses of the ai more than me. So they’re not so much immersed as playing against the underlying systems of the game.

I play as if they’re the IRR AI and it’s much more terrifying lol.

[main trout]

Well with the 0.4 AI it is certainly not "Every move matters.".

[rigid surge]

There's a spectrum between starter town and T3 military area.

AI should ramp up in difficulty up to T3. And T3 should be brutal as hell.

(or T4 whenever that comes)

[tight yacht]

T4 should be the russian mercs when we see em