0.4 AI Discussion

[frozen flame]

Something's off, and who knows what specifically.

Hopefully once they switch to UE 5.7 they can fix it, maybe it's just a cut-down version of what they want, so it "fits" into the current UE version they're on, and that's causing the AI to go from Office Doofy to Jason Bourne

[opaque geyser]

UE 5.7
Not covered in this thread but just gonna say I'd not mind they do a tongue-in-cheek weapon release to go with, like the 5.7mm-firing FiveSeveN pistol and FN P90.

I will say this to stay on topic: I can completely understand that the AI inconsistency is down to a server performance issue, as if you break it down, each AI entity has to account for "seeing" enemy, "hearing" enemy, navigation, the deep-as-fuck rabbit hole of weapons handling and accuracy that is its own bag of worms, calculating and processing health state to go with. And thats just for one AI entity.

We easily have hundreds on Lamang, interacting with dozens of players, across the entire breadth and scope of the region. Thats a lot of AI compute cycles to consider.

It could very well just be a weird interaction with whatever they're using to put AI compute cycles on a lower process for optimization purposes that messes with how we end up fighting them perhaps?

[waxen lily]

i feel like if i get high ping some time ai acting wierd i saw an ai in ms its glithing between floor im not sure its code issue or server load with ping issue

[toxic crescent]

They better figure something out. The middle of the map isn’t populated yet and it already feels empty due to their bot limit.

[waxen lily]

i noticed that ai has issue with line of sight with y axis if ai didnt detect you for example if you are near the staircase and crouch climbing ai is not detecting my location ai is just look around like braindead, same thing if you climb on the wall and walk next to ai if the ai not see us directly it keep looking in straight line

and some place ai can see through the wall and shoot through wall, i didn't check the bullet can pass through the wall have to check later, in our main base one area the bullte can pass through 2 layer of wall

[empty gate]

damn AI is cheating. I just tried to approach my dead body at "the trenches" in a cornfield coming fresh from spawn crouching all the way through the field then going prone for the rest and they can just hit me perfectly hidden in the field. this is outrages....

tried it several time in a row with different approaches. they always know where i am

[vague bluff]

they managed to kill you when you were there the first time

dont be surprised they can do it again

in the trenches IS hard as balls tho

i dislike that mission

[empty gate]

but hidden in the middle of a field and i crouched all the way to the position

[vague bluff]

yes

concealment is never perfect

[empty gate]

i call that cheating

i have a video

[vague bluff]

i've been shot with what feels like bullshit at in the trenches too

i'd wager a lot of people have

i disagree that it's cheating

[empty gate]

but if an AI is in a field crouched i can't see them

[vague bluff]

im quite sure you can its just VERY hard

i agree the AI can definitely see you easier than you can see them

but you should NEVER rely on concealment as your only defence

thats a wonderful way to get shot up

cover is better

[empty gate]

i wouldnt care if i had them engaged prior and they should on last known position, but this smells fishy

[vague bluff]

also out of curiosity

[empty gate]

of course but i tried to recover my body and it was quite far away

[vague bluff]

were you holding ctrl?

[empty gate]

they only have m16 without scope

i way about 100m still away don't think they should hear me crouching

[vague bluff]

im actually not certain crouching lowers your sound profile unless you hold ctrl too

dont quote me on that but i do need to do some testing there

[worldly rose]

Did you happen to full sprint through the open to get to your body?

[empty gate]

i run from mystic yes, but not in a direct line. more like 200m away, then towards the field and body

i recorded a vid but have to make it smaller to upload

[worldly rose]

When you run through the Open, like a field for example, you max out the AI detection metre basically, they will spot you even at 100/150m, its happened to me before

But if you normal walk or coruch walk then its much much lower, Ive walked up to AI crouch walking before they saw me

[worldly rose]

Where is AI in this PIC?

[empty gate]

i closed the game, its the tranches mission and area. its around here

i just wanted to show how i approached the area. not in a direct line

[worldly rose]

Ahh, I see, I think what happened is at the very end when you Entered the field again they detected you because you were running in the open

If they were deep inside the forest its a little dumb tho haha

[empty gate]

the last bit i crouched from the tree line towards enemy

[vague bluff]

that "forest" is actually a trench system

the map is kinda misleading

[empty gate]

yeah its the old tacmap

[worldly rose]

Ah, I havent done the task yet heard too many people say its hard lmao

[vague bluff]

yk theres a current one?

https://gzwtacmap.com/maps/lamang?x=3085.44058&y=5108.5191&z=18.4999

[empty gate]

ah nice thx

[vague bluff]

yeah makes stuff way easier

[worldly rose]

Well tbh, im not sure how they detected you its a little dumb if you crouch walked, The AI are a little buggy sometimes maybe they took some meth

[vague bluff]

i refuse to do in the trenches during the day lol

[worldly rose]

This is the one task in the game were mortars are very helpful haha

Just lob a few and clear out most of the enemies

[vague bluff]

yeah

L LRI moment lol

yall cant actually hit it right?

its just out of range?

[worldly rose]

Bruh its way out of range I didnt even realise

Imma kms doing that task

[vague bluff]

nighttime!

[empty gate]

Yeah probably next approach at night with mortar support

[vague bluff]

or find a random CSI player in pve and offer them money to mortar it for you lol

[frozen flame]

im curious what insight the new "visibility indicator" will give us regarding AI detection and how broken it can be

[empty gate]

Funniest thing: Trenches mission says difficulty is medium 😂

[waxen lily]

lol they can lend perfect head shot 200m in thier 2nd or 3rd shot

[vivid osprey]

Something is definitely off with the AI in FN - was clearing 'A' Barracks lower floor, moving from the left hand side towards the front door, clearing each room in turn of AI to ensure there was nobody behind me.

Paused a moment to get a genade out to lob up the stairs, and heard a full auto click - there was an AI literally right up my backside at barrel stuff range for a 8" MCX.

He missed all his shots when he had me dead to rights, so there's something funky when the AI spawns right behind you and whiffs all his shots.

[empty gate]

here is the video from the situation i described earlier

[waxen lily]

LLA are deadly in that area

[empty gate]

they got xray cornfield vision

[waxen lily]

i noticed all ai can see through walls other object some start shooting and some just stand and looking at us

shoot without suppressor and alert all ai and go in another direction to get your loot

some time if the ai is closer the will trun around faster

[stark hazel]

I had similar situation in barracks, an AI left shover room, I kind of ignored him because of other player around me who looked exactly same, wearing same clothes.

The AI stood for a while, then went full auto after some 2-3 seconds, I didn't responded with fire, because he was missing all the shots, I thought it was that player shooting at someone behind me, not an AI at me.
So I turned around to see what is he shooting at and finally died to this AI 🤣

[vivid osprey]

"The Phantom of Ft Narith 'A' Barracks" - sounds like a horror film to me! 😆

Seriously though, the AI behaving like that (just popping into existence out of nowhere) and missing shots that by all rights they shouldn't is an two pronged issue.

1.) Why is the AI spawning in like that?
2.) Why is it missing shots at point blank?

[waxen lily]

the mp 5 some time scarry they can shoot laser from 15 mag ammo in a same spot with 0 recoil

[steep tree]

I think k it's less that and they're eye level in the trenches is where the cornfield is the thinnest at the bottom so you have less concealment than you think.

[frozen flame]

i dont know if they're spawning in, or just not mkaing a single sound when moving

[waxen lily]

i saw ai spawn infront of me and killed me

[tight pilot]

Safe bet is to not linger when you hear flies, just get out and go somewhere else. That's why they added the flies.

That's your notification that the bots have been dead a while and will be respawning soon

[vivid osprey]

And I'd agree with that, but for my personal experience I can say 100% it wasn't the case they were already dead and spawning in again... because I was the one killing them in the building.

[tight pilot]

The AI whiffing shots is probably some hard coded, guaranteed x number of seconds after they engage before they're lethal

[vivid osprey]

Also seems odd though, given you also have other bots that first shot brain you at times too. Just seems bizarre that the ones point blank and with the drop on you can't kill you first time, but the ones at range can.

In either case, the inconsistency in behaviours like that is an issue in my book.

[tight pilot]

The only times I've been one-tap-brained is after the bot has been aware of my presence for a bit and I just happen to give them the shot. Had one in Ban Pa during Supporter Edition release where I knew he was on the other side of the fence at the Warehouse and I was trying to sprint to it so I could peak and get the shot.

I didn't realize there was a small rise in front of the fence that allowed my head to crest over it and I got domed.

[quasi olive]

I think the coding for those weird one shot head shots when you start sprinting etc is more about the code is trying to get the AI to track you but instead of tracking you, it pin points your head and as the AI is also randomly firing it isn't whiffing shots like it should do it hits the head as all it is doing is tracking your head, its not applying the randomness or inaccuracy

I suspect all the AI are "tracking" you and maybe they track the head and then they apply all their inaccuracies/LOS etc after the fact, just like when its dark and you shoot and they all shoot the "last known" location, but they still must "track" you and the head is the tracking point? I supect it needs to be done this way due to it being server side and having to deal with multiple players and multiple AI and all the different states and "level" of AI

In terms of AI being local, when you play a single player game or something, each AI can have their own seperate logic as you can multi thread this thing, that's why something like Crimson Desert bogs down when you have multiple enemies on screen unless you have a hefty CPU as each AI has its own thread where they have their own logic to "think" through in any given moment, so each AI seem unique to themselves unless there is some overarching "social" AI so groups of them can react alike

While GZW, all this has to be done server side so AI may not have their own "logic" per se as it'll be super heavy having each AI having their own thread which is hosted server side, as there must be hundreds of them as well as the server having to keep 1:1 for weather/wind/ballistics/persistence of objects/anything else that requires the server to keep track of. So with all that going on there most likely is some major workarounds so AI can work, where instead of AI having their own "logic/thread" it is more based on the player and working back from that

My bad on the novel i just wrote 😄

P.S. i could be all wrong on this

[vivid osprey]

To be fair, nobody here beyond the devs themselves have any real knowledge of how it all works underneath the hood (so to speak). We can only speak to our personal experiences in how we've interacted with the AI.

[lilac talon]

play warfare!

[empty gate]

That might actually be the case. Still feels off with how many rows of corn there were between us.

[steep tree]

From the video you posted you weren't very far into the field. We did that the other night with a 4 man and didn't get detected until about 10m from the edge but we were squarely in the centerline of the field.

[empty gate]

With this scenario, GZW has set itself the greatest possible challenge in terms of AI implementation. Problem number one: MMO gameplay. The AI must be calculated on the server side. This is already a challenge with hundreds of AI entities. Unfortunately, due to synchronization issues (and cheating), this cannot be offloaded to the client. Problem number two is a unique one: the great distances at which combat can take place due to the nature of the weapons. Many other games don’t have these problems, even if they are MMOs. With a few exceptions like Tarkov or Arma, distances are always relatively short (Destiny 2, etc.). AI LOD is often used in online games as well. However, this proves difficult here due to the potential distances mentioned. One idea I have that would fit the scenario (and also accommodate reduced AI at a distance) would be for the AI, when under fire from a distance, to first take cover in the nearest available shelter and then alert other AI units. That would be a resource-efficient yet credible reaction. It would be relatively simple to simulate the AI having a general idea of the direction from which the shot came and occasionally poking its head out from cover to look for the player. The server knows where all the players are anyway and could simulate this behavior relatively easily. If the player continues to shoot, the detection range would narrow further; otherwise, it would widen again. As soon as the AI knows the player’s position, it can open fire on him.

[lilac talon]

Remove super high long range scopes 🙂

[burnt lance]

The way I did in the trenches was scope around the bottom of the tree portion, they still snipe you around there but there are just less enemies. You can then do a sprint into the trenches and go CQB, if you like CQB like me then you're basically good to go and you can massacre them.
The other routes of approach you just get sniped through brush and briar until you wish you were back in the 16th century so you can write poetry about your suffering.

There's like a hill that overlooks an entryway into the area and you get an LZ that gets you there but you're still marching your way there. Don't go from the side at all, as you will get sniped and you will not see them. You want to effectively find the trench or at least get into a position where you can return fire while under cover.

[copper gorge]

This is definitely true. The game is so damn easy now! I can just waltz through any area of the game with no problem whatsoever killing everything all by myself and most of the time not even taking a single shot. I've also noticed that the amount of bots is a lot less than in previous versions and this alone makes the game easy but I've also noticed that the bots for some reason don't move around much at all. They will spend so much time standing in one spot and when they do move it's slow and hardly at all. I really miss 0.1 Tiger Bay because it really felt like I had to team up with other people around me and move through tiger bay together. Also as soon as you engaged the Ai then all of the bots in Tiger Bay would start moving towards your position and I suddenly felt like I was in the movie The Lone Survivor.

[fleet crag]

only PVE here, i wouldnt be down for a higher challenge, not with the individual AI itself but them playing together as a group... But not with these Aimbot like capabilities.

[vague bluff]

are you suppressing the enemy and using a helmet?

theyre laughably easy

[mint silo]

there is no aimbot AI anymore

as of 0.4 anyone claiming there are are ousting themselves as positioning themselves so horribly theyre getting head shot constantly

[crystal hawk]

Man wouldnt survive tarkov 30 minutes xD jk

[fleet crag]

Last time it happened i wasnt even aware of the enemy. And i still dont know where he was, but from the sound signature he wasnt close to me. Maybe he got my attention from a firefight i had on that area with other AI. Yes i was using helmet... and i had just got out of a "trench" area. i dotn walk in the middle of the street in MS, i take the grasslands from north or the rice fields south to get in and get out... No it wasnt from the patrol that roams the rice fields , those were dead a long time ago...

[burnt lance]

How good the AI is, is pretty relative, the Mp5 guys do actually hit you and often spray at you with full auto(probably why they hit due to bad MOA lol)
Fog makes it so you can't see them, but they can see you. There are also times where they will just start shooting at you despite you physically not being visible to them

[cedar peak]

Yes.. we do.

[burnt lance]

I don't want it back

[cedar peak]

it indeed is a skill issue.. this isnt COD

[fleet crag]

i wouldnt mind harder AI in a tactical sense, giving them unhuman aim isnt what im looking for

[burnt lance]

I want the AI to be able to reposition good, take cover, suppress, flank. I don't want them to stand still and nail me in the head 200m away through fog, bush and trees

[cedar peak]

helmets are pointless , I die more from headshots with them than without

[burnt lance]

Yep

Unless you're in pvp and it blocks a grenade fragment

1.4kg for a chance of ricochet or fragment block

[cedar peak]

Yea..I hae a theory helmets make the AI target your head

ever since I stopped wearing one . I stopped getting randomly headshot

[fleet crag]

well... ill give it a try

im wearing light body armor already, since they do not shoot me in the chest

[cedar peak]

My best advice tbh , that I had to get out of .. is dont run around in the open like its COD.. move tactically from cover to cover and lean around corners to shoot.. or stay behind a tree and lean and shoot.. also Distance is always your friend

[fleet crag]

i try to play GZW the same way i play in Squad, RoN or in milsim ops in arma.

[cedar peak]

Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast

[fleet crag]

i never played COD (since like MW) since i dont enjoy full auto run an gun FPS's. I like moving planing a route, running from cover to cover, now with binos i use them a lot to scan the area... yeah in that example i wrote above it was MB for not spotting the AI that headshot me, but him hitting in the head from a moderate distance while i run should be an exception, and it happens a lot unfortunatly

i think i've used the surkit less than 5 times during this patch

and only got 1 coma

[burnt lance]

The terminal ballistics is wonky so you definitely want range, you can squish someone with the biggest bullets in existence in their vitals and it will be like bad flesh wounds

[quasi olive]

They introduce 50 BMG, "Light Bruise" to a Lvl3 armoured AI 😄

[burnt lance]

.50bmg "light bruise" enter chest on unarmored AI

[quasi olive]

Dump a 10 round 50 BMG mag on unarmoured enemy point blank, hes still groining at you

"no vital organs hit"

[cedar peak]

same .. and that was only because I was being an idiot.. and standing there reloading and getting shot lol

[cedar peak]

or your hitting them in their armor.. the only vital from distance is a headshot

take that extra second and aim.

[burnt lance]

No, up close center chest in the heart and spine with 762x39

Also if I recall they weren't using armor and I was using the mid tier 762 stuff, I'm not sure if hollowpoints would've helped

[cedar peak]

thats crazy...

I dont use much 7.62 .. so I cant help there.. but I do usually just use M855 5.56 because its lootable and I dont want to spend money on ammo

[burnt lance]

I don't mind spending money on ammo if it actually did something. Basically headshots are the only instant incapacitation shots and CQB it's hard to hit it. So some armorless guy just eats 762 like it's .22

[cedar peak]

I cant alot for cqb if I have a scope on

[tight yacht]

Imo the best thing we can do for AI?

Make them like that of arma III

Rank them in difficulty like that from the antistasi mod

[tight yacht]

Which means, actual suppressive fire, manuever elements, grenade usage

[ornate summit]

I don't think anything they do to the AI is going to matter as long as there are basically only 3 POIs worth going to and at any given moment there are already PMC players running all over the place. Unless you get a fresh or inactive lobby you almost never get to fully clear the POI by yourself. The bots could never keep up with the amount of players constantly raiding them.
So until the expansion and addition of more high tier POIs I wouldn't expect the experience to change much even if they up the bot difficulty

[crystal hawk]

Which is why they need to either A) put in the harder AI they spoke about
B) make them increasingly difficult to deal with based on the amount of people in the area. You should 110% be punished for not checking corners and planning actions in high tier areas such as FN or Midnight.

If lil Timmy .2 kda against AI is the only one in the area, makes sense for the AI to be dumber. But if 8 people from different factions are trying to slam FN make it all crazy chaos lol

Currently as it sits is worrisome for “keeping” players. I just finished every quest today, all traders maxed except vulture (almost 3) and there’s nothing thats motivating me to continue racing others for higher tier loot because it’s WAY to easy for anyone to throw play dough and kill the AI in a couple minutes lel

[waxen lily]

if anyone who is saying ai is to easy just run in a straigh line you will get perfect head shot from 100-150m 😂 ,

but miss all the shots if you stand still

[vague bluff]

got the stats to back them up?

they protect me from roughly 50% of headshots

[vague bluff]

youre not hitting vitals then

[trail dew]

They just need to tweak the ai to make them play more tactically. They’re still robots.

[burnt lance]

Where should I aim? This was CQB and the head is really hard to hit ;(. Should I just full auto?

[quasi olive]

Vitals don't count

[vague bluff]

taptaptap in cqb or full auto, looks like you need to aim just barely higher on the body

[ornate summit]

A) I don't think it is going to help all that much. Even if they crank them up to 11, they are still going to be dead once you come to an area after someone else has been there, which is the case very often.
unless you make them so difficult most people will not be able to clear them at all - and in this case I don't it is going to improve the gameplay. At some point AI level feels artificial if you just give them inhuman reaction time and aimbot.

B) how is that even going to work? if I come into POI 1 minute after someone else came in solo it will suddenly up their aimbot? or spawn more bots? scaling their level dynamically isn't as simple as one may think and it can just make the game feel very inconsistent.
The mechanics for "reinforcements" are not in the game, for example an alarm that cause waves of enemy AI from outside the POI. but this is not something that they can just implement... so just spawning the AI could just make the game feel wierd, like you cleared your way in and suddenly there are AI behind you because someone else also entered the POI area..

[vague bluff]

d'you reckon the LAF can operate choppers like we can?

maybe have them heli in from off the map

[ornate summit]

Yeah or just ground vehicles. that would be awesome but I wouldn't be expecting it to be in the game anytime soon..

[maiden gate]

They don't have any fuel afaik

Like there is a mission from gunny to check fuel levels at FN and they were dry

[dense anvil]

You don't remember 0.1? Randoms teamed up often to go hit the big three. Once you get rid of the ability for just anyone to solo a T3 area it gets rid of the likely occurrence of getting there and everything is dead

T1 and T2 should be easy enough for solos given you play well. T3 should encourage team play so more people have a chance

Then we can expect T4 and T5 areas. It would be cool to have the chance for a faction-wide effort to hit those locations. However, if just anyone can solo and suck up all the loot alone no one would waste time to do that

Imagine that in Warfare. Two or even three separate factions clashing while also hitting a really big POI

[steep tree]

I remember. Running into TB where a couple guys were already working and just teaming up on the spot was goated. We need that gameplay back. Like, you should be able to solo the outskirts of the big 3 solo, but if you want to go deeper you should have to bring back up. IMO TB Central should take no less than 3 people to clear out with a decent chance of success.

[ornate summit]

0.1 was trash I barely touched it.
I don't like not being able to solo. And I don't like artificially difficult AI. The proper balance Imo is AI that you CAN clear solo, as long as it takes you time and effort. (But that alone doesn't solve the problem that the one coming after you is not doing any work at all)

[hasty hazel]

0.1 was the goat. actual tactical gameplay solo. you slip, you die. thats how it should be

t3 areas need to be feared. they need to be scary. you need to be careful asf.

[main trout]

AI needs to be a challenge or it gets boring.

[waxen lily]

I think this how the ai coded atm

int ammoFired = 0;

if (playerInSight)
{
if (ammoFired > 10)
{
// ok enough lets kill the player
shoot(player.head); // 11th shot = instant regret
}
else
{
// pretend to be paid actor
shoot(player.position + random(0.5m to 1m));
}

ammoFired++;

}

[rigid surge]

int ammoFired = 0;

if (playerInSight)
{
if (ammoFired > 10 || (player.isRunning && player.isFacingAway))
{
// ok enough lets kill the player
shoot(player.head); // 11th shot = instant regret
}
else
{
// pretend to be paid actor
shoot(player.position + random(0.5m to 1m));
}

ammoFired++;

}

[burnt lance]

I will try that thank you <3

[empty gate]

Yeah i miss those days. Haven’t revived or rescued anyone in my 100 hours this patch so far, because it wasn’t necessary. Also only teamed up a few times not because of the difficulty but just for fun.

[weak sage]

The ai was absolutely garbage in 0.1, it was just a dumb aimbot with wallhacks.

Please let's not have a return of that. We need AI that's difficult but fair and enjoyable.

[static lake]

i played 30 hours so far and died twice... i dont even need to use heals

[steep tree]

I don't understand that. Way more comas, less death from head shots. AI targeting was working better then. They were just real spongey from net code and ballistics issues.

It really made you slow down and be more methodical. You could still solo t1 and t2 areas just fine. Even with shotguns which weren't working right back then.

If you want to talk aimbot, I died last night in TB Central to a guy with an SVD while crossing a small threshold at full sprint and got heart shot side on with less than a half second exposure time.

[cedar peak]

yea... its called staying alive without them and dying with them.

[dense anvil]

They were more aggressive and flanked/pushed way better. That's honestly what I want

They did well toning down the AI cheating but at the same time they almost completely lobotomized them

AI need to have aim dispersion instead of the circle of probability they have right now. They either miss every shot or land a perfect vital hit on the first shot after seeing you for 27 milliseconds.

Aim dispersion just seems like it would be more natural, and have it default to center mass. Increase it when they are injured, when it's dark, raining, foggy, whatever. You can use the environment to your advantage easier. It could also decrease as they continue shooting at a target in the same location, so moving would be a good tactic. The whole randomness aspect to their aim is not enjoyable, it's also still a laser beam as it only has vertical recoil simulated, if you look at the demonstration videos and even the bullet holes from an AI burst there is 0 spread.

[ornate summit]

They also can strafe faster than you and don't need to ADS or stabilize aim (which is also a slowdown mechanic aimed at making you less able to do stuff quickly). I wouldn't want the AI to be able to shoot me faster than my character can "hold breath" or ADS for example.

[dense anvil]

That's an easy fix. Even now most bots have the reaction time of a drunk. They could have a short delay before being able to react/shoot/run. slow down their non-sprinting speed

[waxen lily]

I’ve noticed that when AI spawns directly in front of the player, it often fails to react appropriately. Instead of engaging, it appears to ignore the player entirely, looking around as if searching for another target while continuously playing random voice lines.

Additionally, there is an issue with AI persistence. If a player eliminates one member of a patrol and then moves far enough away (beyond rendering distance), the remaining AI seems to reset its behavior. It effectively “forgets” the previous encounter and resumes unrelated actions, breaking immersion and consistency.

[empty gate]

My new meta for AI patrols is 5 dig shots and smoke a cigar in peace while they bleed out.

The behavior is just stupid

[static lake]

i think all the npc voice lines should just be deleted from the game. theyre so immersion breaking

[static lake]

they can also teleport a few meters to the side and start sprinting away if you shoot them

[mint silo]

have not encountered this

[mint silo]

how

[static lake]

mathafaka!!!

😂

[static lake]

maybe ur aim is too good, it happens usually if i hit a few shots on a guy and then stop shooting. then he teleports to the side and starts running off

[mint silo]

unlucky

[mint silo]

most should speak their native tongue in both docule and aggro states

thatd be a nice addition

only ones i can even consider to speak some english are VTS, maybe LLA, and LAF

[dense anvil]

How far away

[static lake]

any distance

so it seems

[buoyant glacier]

tbh they all seem a bit too interested in my mother, surely some of them have other kinks

[ornate summit]

I hate when this happen

while my pmc is still moving at sneaking pace to the side when I try to get into cover

[vague bluff]

i meant the stats screen

my helmet saves me from 50% of headshots

[empty gate]

Also its rarely mentioned how they magically can distinguish my footsteps from their comrades. They just hear footsteps through a wall and know its an enemy…

[ornate summit]

lol this thing annoy me in every stealth game

[empty gate]

At least they could yell „who is there?“ or start to investigate if unsure

[ornate summit]

I also wanted a mechanic in Tarkov that if you wear scav gear scavs will not instantly aggro you. like how do they know I am an enemy does every scav knows alll the other scavs

[static lake]

Lol right

[empty gate]

Thats a cool idea. The better tier AI could use passwords or if you can’t answer in their native tongue they get suspicious

[ornate summit]

The setup quest practically ask for this mechanic because you need to dress as a scav. could be so cool if you could hide among them.. maybe tasks like this could work in GZW where you need to wear specific set of clothing and the AI faction will not aggro you

[burnt lance]

It would be nice to dress like the enemy only to take out a pistol and shoot them in the face

[empty gate]

I like the way you think

Also a suppressed pistol with sub ammo should give a stealth benefit in some situations. Like reduced detection awareness to balance the risk involved. You have to land face shots on armored enemies to kill them instantly.

I also wish for different behaviors regarding engagement distances. A start would be to not just stand around when shot from far away 😂

[burnt lance]

Subsonic ammo can be extremely quiet with a suppressor and there isn't a crack since it's subsonic.

[empty gate]

And can we get the legendary F.EA.R. AI back for CQB battles?

[vital terrace]

ai dont use cover, dont use medical, have maybe a 10% hit chance, dont use nades, dont get aggressive, dont use squad tactics, have a 3+ second response time, dont specifically aim for vitals, dont push you after hurting you, dont react to you reloading/using medical/being generally too occupied to fight back, they dont suppress you,
all ai do right now is stare at you, and fumble the bag harder than a discord mod

[steep tree]

Sure but the slide/bolt moving can still be pretty loud against low ambient noise. Like loud enough that on a quiet night you would be able to hear it from the atc tower at FN to the little building between it and the bunker.

[vital terrace]

not to be that girl, the game is fun, but it probably has some of the stupidest, easiest ai ive ever seen lol

[static lake]

🙎‍♂️

[dense anvil]

They were gutted. They have already addressed this so I expect them to gradually raise the roof

[dense anvil]

Just 🗣️ Fucking 🗣️ DIE🗣️

[worldly rose]

Yup... So many people complained about the AI that they got neutred to oblivion and now we suffer the consequences of them basically being a non-threat other than 1% of the time you geat headshotted

[dense anvil]

Probability is a funny thing

They are only dangerous because they have that small chance of landing an impossibly lucky hit

[worldly rose]

Yup and not everyone experiances it the same as others, I personally havent died to the AI in like 30hrs, not once, but have seen people get 1 shot 3 times in a row

[dense anvil]

I still have only 7 deaths this patch all the way from the supporter preview

[worldly rose]

Yep most of mine are from then too

Since the AI changes ive died like twice and both were completely my incompetence

[dense anvil]

My most recent death, I was shot in the back of the head through a wall. I guess the AI saw me through a crack or something and turned into John Wick

[worldly rose]

I just want rough AI again.. Was it broken that they would 1 shot you? Probably but its better than having them miss an entire mag point blank

[dense anvil]

It's the disparity that gets me. Most of the time they are braindead and shoot around you, then sometimes they are cheating. Honestly it's kinda like playing against human players in that sense

[foggy wigeon]

Had a guy at Ban Pa one tap me at night, through my arm straight into my heart. I was using nods and subsonic .300 AAC. Deaths get to be random as hell sometimes.

[worldly rose]

I have noticed the AI be a bit crazy sometimes too, but atleast in my personal experiance 90% of the time I fight AI they miss the majority of the time

But I have to admit I have played the game a lot, and know every AI spawn in most locations (except the new ones added in 4.0) so I can predict where the AI is most of the time

I found the most effective strat to be just to snipe them from like 100m away

I cleared Ban pa with a friend yesterday and the AI didnt get a single shot of

[foggy wigeon]

Yep, hasn't been an issue at all except for this one time. Dude ended up being down by the water at the elder house. I was stunned haha

[dense anvil]

Funniest part? If you land the same shot on an AI nothing would happen

[foggy wigeon]

Yep, they completely removed cavitation from anything that isn't hollow points apparently. So far ive been in 2 coma's, thats it. One was from bleeding out because I didn't have meds, and the other was a JFK .32 acp from a scorpion that tumbled through one arm, completely zig zagged through my torso and out through the other arm.

[hasty hazel]

bring back 0.1 AI. bring back tactical gameplay

people who cant handle it bring a medic

[worldly rose]

Bro

stfu

please

[hasty hazel]

ok ill go general

kek

[worldly rose]

I get you think thats a good idea, make a suggesion post about it, dont spam it twice a day in any chat

[hasty hazel]

AI is this game's biggest issue. it needs to be repeated till its fixed

this thread is all about getting good AI back

[worldly rose]

No this thread is about AI being too easy

[hasty hazel]

lol

[hasty hazel]

whats the opposite of too easy

[quasi olive]

Not to easy

[hasty hazel]

there ya go. bring back 0.1

[quasi olive]

Doesn't mean the AI is gonna be good

[hasty hazel]

who was actually complaining about the AI in 0.1, filthy casuals cant shoot shit

[quasi olive]

Yeah lets bring back AI that insta kills us through walls and 100's of meters away!

[hasty hazel]

strange i never encountered that

[quasi olive]

Must mean you're bad at the game

[hasty hazel]

its harder to say '

'i suck' i know

[quasi olive]

filthy casual

All you want is AI that aren't good

[hasty hazel]

same with ppl accusing cheaters

noone wants to look at themselves

[quasi olive]

I want an AI that's so good no one can play

[hasty hazel]

that sounds spicy. id play it

[quasi olive]

That means if you're the only one playing, must mean you're good

[hasty hazel]

harder the better

[quasi olive]

Just stay in the FOB, yeah you're amazing

[worldly rose]

Remember when they 1 shot you through a bush without saying anything so you didnt even know you triggered them

Yeah lets bring that AI back xD

[hasty hazel]

tell me how tarkov remains popular when ppl get insta killed by bosses

[quasi olive]

Hey, MFG, don't do any coding for AI, just make them never die, and can insta kill you

[hasty hazel]

cos ppl who play tarkov arent bloody pussies and keep trying

[worldly rose]

Thats crazy

Whats this game called again?

Oh right

GZW

[hasty hazel]

ppl in this game they cry to devs, oh no, AI too hard, nerf pls

[quasi olive]

We need to keep stroking his ego, he thinks hes cool

[hasty hazel]

tarkov people go, yeah lets keep at this, we'll improve

[worldly rose]

Huh... never realised this was Tarkov

Must be in the wrong discord

[hasty hazel]

strange how almost every gameplay mechanic is taken from tarkov

[worldly rose]

Im not even gonna reply to that

[quasi olive]

I guess that's why Solarint's has been held in high regard in making a better Tarkov AI...

[hasty hazel]

tarkov AI isnt perfect, but then theres this...lol

anyway, 0.1, goat, do do

[worldly rose]

You realise your comparing a game thats been developing for how many years? 7 is it? To a not even 2 year old EA game...

[quasi olive]

Longer technically, only came out in Alpha 10 years ago

[worldly rose]

Damn

So a 10 year old game

[quasi olive]

Supposedly started development in 2012

Im not sure on this but Alpha/EA started 2024 for GZW, and between 2020 to 2024 is when GZW started production as MFG last game was released in 2020

[worldly rose]

Yup something along those lines, GZW 2nd Bday is at the end of this month

[quasi olive]

Looks like Shadowgun War Games was their last game and was a free to play MP game but was shut down by the end of 2021 due to techincal problems, so i suspect 2022 is when production started on GZW

[static lake]

this game with mods and offline only would be a master piece in 5 years

like stalker gamma

[ornate summit]

Idk when was the last time you played but the bosses are extremely dumb in Tarkov, and dying to a scav is almost impossible. The AI in GZW is way more deadly even now

[steep tree]

If the AI we have currently in GZW is way more deadly than whats in Tarkov, what a sad state tarkov is in

[ornate summit]

Tarkov is actually in the best state it has ever been imo had tons of fun this 1.0wipe. but yeah the AI isn't very dangerous rn

[dense anvil]

1.0 is genuinely really good. Most fun I have ever had in tarkov

[worldly rose]

Lets not make this a Tarkov discussion xD

[dense anvil]

Lmao

[crystal hawk]

my only two cents on comparing to tarkov is the boss's would benifit in gzw if they acted the same and were broken to fight half the time haha

[hasty hazel]

lol good joke. scavs are about the same as in gzw. theres no 'deadly' in gzw. no such thing

downside of a game getting popular, it gets dumbed down. happened to tarkov. used to have a hardcore identity, you'd get slapped by scavs. at least bosses are still a challenge sometimes

[ornate summit]

I literally didn't die to a scav since 1.0 except one time when I loaded in tagged and cursed with no weapon

[hasty hazel]

yeah. same as in gzw.

[ornate summit]

In Gzw they one shoted me several times already

[hasty hazel]

never been killed by AI in gzw yet

[ornate summit]

Even while sprinting

They don't kill me often but they do give me the feeling that if I will disrespect them they will kill me which is enough for me

So I will usually not engage if I don't have good cover etc

[main trout]

Beside a few corner cases it is hilarious how weak the AI is now. Even in 0.3 it was to easy at T2/T1, but now it is just a sad joke.

[steep tree]

The current state is a massive overcorrection.

[neon brook]

Idky but my experience has been so different. I played 1 maybe 2hrs yesterday before I quit in sheer annoyance. Loot run in MS, started at lookout by hotel 2, cleared villas gaining good gear & loot, went into the hotel with 2-3 others.
So far so normal, checking corners, mix of svd & ak12, decide the golf course might have something nice.
Patrol out front, 3 tangos, drop 1 with headshot, behind car hood for cover, put 3+ rounds into each of the others for suppression & possible kill. They run for cover, guy 1 makes it, guy 2 gets stuck behind him, done him. Guy 1 is hurt, doubled over, I edge to the right, still behind car, put 3 rounds in him, he fires 1x while staggering & domes me.

Sneak/run back, get body "huh weird", guy 1 bled out. Go into golf office thru back, tango in kitchen, lean/pie corner put 5 dead in chest, he staggers, fires 1x & domes me. Annoyed now, pistol sneak/run back, get body. Clear remaining 5 tangos, got to villa NE of golf course, 1 nade & half a mag all 5 tangos down, clear villa of loot. Step out near pool, patrol of 3 appears, drop 2 with 3-5 shots, put 6 into remaining guy, staggering he fires 3-4x, domes me with 1.
Really annoyed now, sneak/run back to villa, get near body. No sight not sound of tangos, almost at body, guy stands up in pool fires 1x, domes me.

From hotel to 4th death was ~15-20 min. If this was rare or 1 off I wouldn't care, but this happens ALL. THE. TIME. From talking with other players in game, this happens to a lot but in varying degrees. I make no claim I'm unbeatable, I'm going to screw up, get over confident & get dropped. But hyper tanky, head sniping enemies all over the place? That's BS

[vague bluff]

if its taking you more than about 3 shots to kill your aim is off

or your ammo isnt up to the task of penning that armour

[ornate summit]

Don't be so sure. Just recently they fixed a bug where skulls bounce bullets. I wouldn't be surprised there are more weird bugs with this ballistic system since it is very hard to reverse engineer what really happens with each shot

[waxen lily]

some time same ammo take more shot I recently tested but took wrong screen shot I need to test again

[vague bluff]

what bug lol

do you have patch notes lmao

[ornate summit]

one of the latest ones

[vague bluff]

screenshots yeah, if you're missing vitals

hit the vitals

[vague bluff]

that was an issue of overtuned armour angle deflection

had nothing to do with skulls

[ornate summit]

Pretty sure I've also heard something about bones deflecting

[vague bluff]

and im quite sure it wasnt the skull

HPBT consistently pens the skull

[waxen lily]

same hit points

[vague bluff]

im 99.98% sure that was about ricochet causing extreme amounts of damage

if skulls were deflecting bullets, dont you think the random headshots from a scorpion at 100m wouldnt be happening?

i think i've had an AI survive a headshot maybe twice, this patch, and both times they were helmeted

[vague bluff]

.

[vague bluff]

.

[ornate summit]

skulls are just a private case of bones

[vague bluff]

people having issues with headshot kills in the past have also been due to overpen

not due to ricochet

overpen which is stupid, tbf

[ornate summit]

in any case - ballistic bugs could still be present, no need to just believe the ballistic system blindly

[vague bluff]

but overpen

[vague bluff]

yeah but im fairly confident through plenty of experience that 6 shots into a guy is because you're failing to hit vitals

the AI isnt really spongey, they just dont suffer aim debuffs from injuries the way they should

[ornate summit]

It doesn't matter to me. The game still fails to provide a good feedback as to why a dude isn't falling to the ground. I see the blood, I see him in pain, Yet he is still standing.

[vague bluff]

two in the same spot in the upper chest will always kill from my experience, thats about what it takes to pop a lung with 855a1

if you hit all over the shop, then no shit they survive until they bleed out

you're not hitting vitals and they dont have some arbitrary HP value that makes them always die to x number of bullets

[ornate summit]

So I will not gaslight myself I didn't hit a "vital" when there is tons of pink mist and he is obviously reacting to my shots with animation

[vague bluff]

AI being spongey is about 80% a skill issue, maybe 20% their medical system not quite being up to snuff

[vague bluff]

you hit them

you caused an injury

im not saying you didnt

im saying you didnt hit anything important

[ornate summit]

And I'm saying it is BS 😄

[vague bluff]

aight so a single shot in the arm should also kill you instantly?

or they should add an arbitrary HP value system?

[ornate summit]

in a game?

[vague bluff]

in this game

[ornate summit]

Idk how they design it. It can be a severe bleeding that is practically instant, or trauma, but if a guy gets shot in the spine or in the torso where the is no armor Idc if i missed the heart he should still be unable to fight me like he can now

[vague bluff]

and you will also be subject to the same constraints

people will bitch even more about bullshit one hit deaths

[ornate summit]

first of all not necessarily, they can make AI a little less tough since this is the main think you shoot in this game

[vague bluff]

some of the selling points of this game are A) the modelled ballistics and injury system and B) AI and players sharing that system

thats intended

[ornate summit]

Like I would rather have more AI that actually fall when shot than tanky AI

[vague bluff]

any change you make to the AI has to also be made to the players

the only difference should be equipment and skill

tactical shooter, not run and gun

[ornate summit]

Things change between theory and practice. They don't have to commit to any selling point after testing it in practice and seeing there are some weird issues with it

[vague bluff]

"weird issues" being, again, 80% a skill issue

[ornate summit]

Nope

[vague bluff]

yes

you arent hitting vitals, then are complaining that the nonlethal shot wasnt lethal

you can wait a minute for them to bleed out

or you can hit a vital

[ornate summit]

It isn't about me unable to adjust to the game rules, it is about thinking the rules are a bad design

[vague bluff]

if you shot me in the stomach IRL, i would not die immediately

it would be miserable

[ornate summit]

I have no problem headshotting every npc, it just makes the game less interesting imo

[vague bluff]

a big enough bullet would kill me at some point

but i would not die immediately

[vague bluff]

then put 2 into a lung

put one in the heart

put a couple in the shoulder and let them bleed out

if you want a one tap, you have to work for it

you cant just hit "somewhere in the torso"

[ornate summit]

ok man 🙂

The health system is perfect immersive and realistic

[vague bluff]

i never said its perfect

i just said the lethality is correct

they should not make AI easier to kill

they should make their performance degrade as they are injured more

yk, the same as the player

[ornate summit]

And I disagree. It isn't lethal. definitely should make more parts 'vital' like the whole spine and heavier bleeding and even a coma or incapacitate state for AI in those cases you didn't destroy their vitals but they are practically out of the game

[vague bluff]

the spine i agree should be a lethal zone

we're also fairly sure theyre working on it to some degree given that they've made the neck a brain hitbox at the moment to bandaid neckshots not killing always

the bleeding is... already a thing

you just need to wait

[ornate summit]

should have faster bleeding

[vague bluff]

they can still kill you until that's happened

[ornate summit]

like another degree

[vague bluff]

congrats, now players bleed out near instantly too because of some torso hit that should be survivable with meds

because the AI and players sharing a system is a required part

[ornate summit]

so don't get shot

[vague bluff]

its real hard to take money from people promising X, then delivering Y

[vague bluff]

you will spike the number of complaints dramatically

do you know how many people bitch about bullshit headshots already?

[ornate summit]

so what.. number of complaints never stopped anyone

like what's the difference if I complain about AI not dying or about me dying too much

at the end people will complain

I believe they can make the health system feel better. not my job to design it for them, I'm sure they can figure it out. but I am right to feel like it isn't satisfying to me atm.

[vague bluff]

you also have to be careful not to entirely invalidate tourniquets

theyre already kinda meh IME, and completely worthless as soon as you hit lab rat 3

[ornate summit]

Still relevant for hands and legs for example

[vague bluff]

making bleed faster nerfs the underperforming medical item significantly harder

[vague bluff]

at that point use a bandage

[ornate summit]

It also doesn't have to be binary - vital or not. You could have for example areas that aren't "one shot" but they bleed faster to prevent the cases you put several bullets but the dude still takes his time to fall.

I don't need it to always be one shot. It is the cases where there are multiple shots not killing that feel bad

[vague bluff]

and those cases need you to count to 5 behind cover

they will die

[ornate summit]

even so, it isn't as satisfying

[vague bluff]

feels plenty satisfying to me

[ornate summit]

I find it pretty funny and not very convincing when they die like that

Like at that point i would put one in their head just to prevent it from happening

[dense anvil]

I half agree. Sometimes it is a skill issue on my part and I fail to take into account the weird unnatural angles their animations contort their bodies into. Sometimes the server just genuinely hates me for a second and I place 2 shots to the heart, and 3 more in other parts of the chest and end up having to get a headshot kill. I have a few screen shots of AI have bullets going straight through the heart and lungs and there being 0 damage at all. I also have had a situation that I checked a body and the bot had a destroyed lungs and heart, yet the headshot is what finally killed him... sometimes it really is just BS

The worst part is that it is never consistant. If I tried to replicate these issues it is up to chance. There is a chance I can play for 3 hours right now and record it with 0 problems. Then hop on the next day and AI are tanking shot after after shot for a bit and then it stops

I rarely have bad aim. Which is why it's probably rarer for me. I notice when my aim is off and I don't count those as an AI issue. Only when I'm perfectly on target and they still refuse to die

[honest marsh]

You're not on Wifi or 5g, are you?

[dense anvil]

I'm normally on ethernet

Playing right now it's been a great experience, pretty much one tapped any AI that should have been a one tap and it's great

Probably just bad servers at times or something

I know there was server maintenance today but I don't know if it relates

[neon brook]

5.45 7N24, iirc is stopped by lvl 4, can find a ton of it in MS in boxes so I got a stockpile for loot runs

That combined with torso shots, I'm definitely hitting vitals. Especially since I know their armor has no side plates so when they turn doubled over I aim directly into their sides

[vague bluff]

yk the best way to check if you're hitting vitals

check the body when they die

[neon brook]

Yea I do cause I always loot my kills

[vague bluff]

if youre using bullets stopped by level 4, you really dont want to be hitting the unarmoured section

you get next to no cavitation which means you need to be more precise

there reaches a point where hitting armour is actually better to cause tumbling lol

[neon brook]

That would be more of a factor on a body front to back, side to side in upper torso is nailing both lungs

[vague bluff]

yeah but the way the damage is modelled is kinda weird

its like, area afaik

so your lower cavitation is causing less damage to the lung

i believe it has to be a certain area of the organ is inside the cavitation bubble for it to be considered "destroyed"

so you're basically overpenning the lung

i normally kill with 2 taps from the front into the same lung

855a1 or 5.45 PP through 3+ plates

[neon brook]

This being a game I get the weirdness of it, but when my armor stops the bullet yet my lungs get damaged & I can't hold the gun straight, my vision is blurry & I'm wheezing like kettle, there's no way I'm hitting a 1 shot dome except by sheer fucking luck

[vague bluff]

i havent had my lungs damaged after my armour has successfully stopped a round

huh

[neon brook]

Happened multiple times to me & a few others I've talked to, it's not common tho. My armor has stopped over 100rds, it's happened ~7-8x

[vague bluff]

that definitely does sound weird

and should get looked at

[neon brook]

What's crazy is last night I did the same exact run, the only difference is I changed servers from US East to US Central (I'm a flatbed driver & my ping was way off on East) had a totally different experience. Went great & scored near 90k in loot

Not 1 single death

[worldly rose]

This isnt a fact, And I may be wrong, but Ping seems to greatly affect how easy it is to deal with AI

They seem to die easier on lower ping

[neon brook]

I wouldn't doubt it has an impact, but usually I'm on East with sub 70 ping

[worldly rose]

I usually play EU West, but recently have been on US East with friends and I feel like sometimes the AI tanks a little more

But that could be coincidence

Also I witnessed the AI retreat behind cover

That was great

They forced me to push them

[vague bluff]

lmao imagine if its JUST US east that has the problem and thats why people feel like other people are insane

never been on US east, always OCE, SEA or US west

[neon brook]

I was about to suggest that there might be a server side issue with East lol

[neon brook]

I love that shit! Real preservation actions, make me work for my wins

[worldly rose]

Yeah I was at MS going through to the Villas, Yknow the red gate at the back wall of the villas?

Shot at some AI, Killed 1/3 the other 2 legged it into the villa lol

[neon brook]

It's AI acting like real combatants that makes them a decent challenge. If my deaths were mostly the result of that (I'd be annoyed) but would have 0 honest complaints.

[worldly rose]

I find that it doesnt happen often tho

Most of the time they will either stand there or maybe move around a little but thats it

[neon brook]

True, I hope the AI gets the Stalker treatment from the devs. Seeing suppression fire, flanking, grenade use etc would really make this game amazing

[worldly rose]

Definitely, Even a little bit of tactics would make the AI much more fun

But it shouldnt be universal, I think only the better trained faction should use millitary tactics

let the militias just do whatever

[neon brook]

Yea I can agree with you there, it would really give meaning to the higher tier POIs. Better loot but also better defenders

[waxen lily]

@vague bluff most of the time im getting less damage when i shoot the back of the armor

this 2 almost same distance one stoped the bullet right side and one didnt used same wepon

[waxen lily]

this is front side

is neck not vital part?

[neon brook]

I'm honestly not sure, I've seen a lot like that image but also seen some where it counts as a headshot.

But I think the devs did say something about the neck not currently being a vital point

[waxen lily]

i shot few neck and its yellow not vital hit

and they lived

[neon brook]

I think it might be tied to angle, you would need to rotate the X-ray paperdoll to see the entry angles

[waxen lily]

we can see the bullet angle in this game

[neon brook]

Roughly yea, when looting the dead guy just use the mouse to rotate the X-ray & u can see a lil bullet & it's angle of entry

[dense anvil]

You are overpenning hard. I don't agree with how it works at all but that's the issue

Use M855A1

Or even M855 out of a 20"

Similar penetration as A1 out of a 14.5"

And yes shots to the back seem to do less damage for some reason

The ballistics are extremely complex so even when it wasn't broken it was still unpredictable. It's a simulation not a simple health and hurtbox system

I've found the M855A1 with a 16" barrel has enough penetration to defeat almost all armor even at a 45 degree angle, and enough raw tissue damage to destroy the heart with one shot (most of the time)

[steep tree]

Thats all I use now. 20" is over kill and most engagements are will within the useful range that combo. 1-3 shots thru the armor on LAF takes them down. The only exceptions are the officers with the III++

[dense anvil]

Exactly. The longer barrels are for a very specific application now. Anti-boss

[waxen lily]

Im using 5.56 tracer ammo for head shots, but some time the bullet path going different direction where i shot but still ai is dying

[dense anvil]

Do you mean the bullet changes path before or after it hits the target. After it enters an AI the bullet can move and change trajectory. Hydrodynamics or whatever

[waxen lily]

its change the path when i shoot, and going in another direction but the ai is dead

its not often

[dense anvil]

That's really weird. I don't know I would say desync maybe

You see something different than what the server sees

[honest marsh]

I use 20" because it is only 970 grams while having great moa.

[waxen lily]

maybe

[main trout]

Wouldn't all this ammo discussion better posted in the "Ballistics & Ammo" under #1487037460050346148 ?

[dense anvil]

Half and half an ammo and AI discussion

[hasty hazel]

i cant even play man. so many missions to do and with the AI as it is, just a huge snorefest. i like tactical games thats why i bought gzw

if they swung it all the way back to 0.1, it'd be so much better. even if it swung too far to hard, at least you'd get the feeling of intensity and a dangerous map, using quick peeks, changing position etc

[dense anvil]

By the time they make the AI harder again (with none of the BS of course) we are gonna be so sloppy and used to the brainless drones that people will scream "too hard" again. It is the natural order

MFG just needs to do what they believe is right and not listen to either direction.

[ornate summit]

It wouldn't suprise me at all
Their ballistic system is complicated enough for all kinds of hard to detect bugs to appear offline..
Combining all of that with all the complications that comes with netcode and hit reg and I will just feel safe to assume that some parts of one system aren't 100x working with the other.
Problem is that it is very hard to even test it so even if there are bugs they could be dismissed as some RNG phenomena emerging from such complex systems.
This is why I am generally against implementing too complex systems when the end result to the end user would most often just look like a simplified system with some RNG sprinkled on top.
It doesn't feel more than a gimmick that happens under the hood and doesn't really make the gameplay any different or couldn't be emulated with a more simplified model.
But some people love the fact that semi realistic simulations are running constantly begind the curtain even though the end result could be modeled with much more simplification one day and they will never know

[rigid surge]

that's a really good observation

sometimes complex systems just end up looking like rng

[frozen flame]

I've no clue how that Kekw reaction got there sorry Turtle

[hasty hazel]

tarkov been there done all this. their system is even more complex. its not so much they 'die easier' its that they just dont hit you when they should, or if they do hit you, its a little scrape with a light bleed

that is if you arent standing out in the open like a moron and just facing 3-5 npcs

grayzone : destiny it'll eventually be called at this rate

[ornate summit]

I have the same issue with tarkov too. And they had and still have so many bugs because of it. Overcomplications and 10843 formulas running in the background and the end result is someone getting one tapped. Yeah i think you could achieve the same results gameplay wise with simplified systems 😄

[dense anvil]

Can't even argue with that

[gleaming edge]

Honestly, I like the AI now. Compared to 0.1 they're way better. My only concern is that they need to do more like:
1.flank us / push the player(s)
2.heal themselves an/or other AI
3.behavior variety for more intense fights, i.e one pushes while others are covering, camping, or assisting
I would like to see more movement. It's much more intense to try to shoot targets that are tactically trying to suppress and push you

[tight yacht]

dude, it should be vice versa TvT

literally just take a look at arma

[burnt lance]

I think I have seen Ai bandage themselves, it's just they rarely have meds

[tight yacht]

moar meds

[hasty hazel]

thats underselling it, though if everyone is running best ammo late into wipe armor does become meaningless, which is why i think tarkov not having regular wipe cycles as part of post 1.0 was a mistake

ammo that can penetrate the best armor should be a luxury find, rather than bought, or easily found, it keeps armor relevant

in this game though, im sure its all placeholder until 1.0, with weapons and ammo found too easily, likely for testing purposes

[tight yacht]

i personally am fine with using cost effective M4's or repaired salvage weapons from dead enemies

[tight yacht]

irl these components cost RADICALLY different amounts compared to in game

[burnt lance]

Armor is heavy, but extremely good even when you're wearing level 3 against M995. It often blocks M995s or PPs. In general any armor makes you absurdly tanky.

[waxen lily]

the angle of the bullet effect the penetration and the bullet not penetrating the bone

[rigid surge]

That's funny I was mag dumping a military AI with 5.45x39 BP and he just... wouldn't... die... then I was reminded of The Division

[ornate summit]

I think that's a completely different subject 😄

[burnt lance]

That's true, but I've found ammo underperforming to be extremely consistent. Even M995s not penning III as I've said. Even on enemies standing up with a 90* angle at around 100m getting bruises from it.
I've gotten hit straight in the heart before and only got a light wound despite wearing no armor.

[ornate summit]

Maybe the skeleton is still bouncing bullets who knows 😂

[dense anvil]

Thing is they did all that in 0.1 minus the healing. They were just aimbotty and had cheats

[dense anvil]

I've had this opposite problem. I'm using ammo that shouldn't pen but it does. In fact the only time I've had a bullet stop on armor was when I fired M855A1 out of the short 10 inch barrel, which makes sense.

[burnt lance]

My existence must balance you out ;( otherwise the universe would explode. I might just be phenomenally unlucky.

[dense anvil]

Lol

The animations they do are strange. When they are alerted they basically turn their body 90 degrees when facing you and show you their side

If you aim for the chest you miss everything since it just grazes them but if you aim for the armpit it's always a one shot

[waxen lily]

yeah i found that too

and some ammo with same angle penetrate the ai with armor but the ai without any armor they not getting penetrated

[rigid surge]

One of the issues with pen is we don't know... is it a bug or intended? And if it's intended how does the mechanic work exactly?

All we know is there's some ballistics modeling and angle matters. But then barrel length matters too but we don't know exactly how.

[waxen lily]

At this point,GZW isn’t a milsim it’s a slot machine with guns. pull trigger, pray to RNG

MFG seriously loves their RNG a bit too much 😂

I think MFG didn’t just add gambling they built a whole casino and accidentally put a shooter game inside it

[hidden wedge]

Yeah if u are unemployed or buy cheats then game is easy bet 🥲

I find my self getting yelled at from somewhere and suppressed, where I can’t see or have to reposition to get better angles I don’t think the ai is supposed to be the deadliest in here

But more the PvP side of things that should frighten you walking in the jungle

[waxen lily]

played against 0.1 ai solo

[quasi olive]

The issue im seeing is AI death and penetration and all that never seemed an issue before 0.4

[steep tree]

It's always been an issue.

Even 0.1 had major pen and hit reg issues

[quasi olive]

I defo don't remember it being a 0.3 problem though?

[gleaming edge]

They should honestly bring it back but with this Ai's behavior. 0.4 AI is less "aimbotty." I just want the AI to be more reactive and not just:

play hide and seek but to actually move like a player. honestly that is really hard to implement.

[long depot]

I wish they work together in team

I mean sure it make sense for unprofessional factions such as the Lotus to be disorganized

but the LLA, the LAF, Viper Tactical Service, and Red Stone Brigade are professional factions with combat experience

they should be more organized and work as a squad

flanking, performing suppressive fire, cover each other

would be also cool if they can heal each other

drag each other to cover

speaking of cover they dont really take much cover, a lot of time I see them out in the open

they dont utilize their surrounding effectively

the MS should not be this easy considering this is the LAF turf

no fortification, no choke point, no alarm system, no preparation for an attack

[waxen lily]

ms,tb,fn had more ai in 0.1 idk why they reduced maybe some performance issue

[long depot]

at least they are repopulating the game

which is nice

[long depot]

every hallway, every hotel room should be a bloodbath

sure you will take ms but you will pay a heavy price for it

[maiden gate]

The AI at POI were reduced for patrols, to keep the server load approximately the same. They're going to try to get it back to previous levels iirc in future patch

[long depot]

same with fort narith

it should more populated with LAF

[maiden gate]

Yes

[long depot]

its the heart of the army after all

[maiden gate]

But yeah they're definitely working on it since it was one of the major points mentioned in their post spearhead devlog

[long depot]

there should also be an alarm system

similar to the one in Metal Gear Solid V

you be clearing one area of the fort while the others doesnt seem to care at all

[maiden gate]

I heard that the AI gets more accurate the longer they're engaged

I imagine there is a non zero chance that it derps out and lets the AI head tap you on sight if they all were alerted

[long depot]

I love Tiger Bay so much because its should be what MS and FN supposed to be

intense combat

the LAF got a bunch of checkpoints across the location

fortification in the mall area

Old Block should be renamed to O' Block because of how bloody it is

[maiden gate]

[steep tree]

Tiger Bay is no better than FN or MS. Its easily solo-able. Bring back the difficulty from 0.1 where you had to have friends to get into town

[dense anvil]

My friends don't even hit me up to team up anymore since it's not necessary. It's just more boring cause whoever has point gets all the kills

[dense anvil]

Or just stand out in the open yelling at you until they get hit

[quasi olive]

Thats why they made the AI tanky. So the whole squad can join in on the fun!

[dense anvil]

2 to the head one to the chest or whatever

[frozen flame]

12 to the head, 22 to the chest

[quasi olive]

Then when the AI is on deaths door you sprint to get into cover and relocate, insta headshot 😄

[stark hazel]

Never happened to me. I can't grasp the idea why some people get that and some other never do.

Even in crazy situations like on the road between LAF checkpoint and flip-flops in the houses on the way to TB Mall
I had flip flops on the road, LAF on checkpoint and sprinted the road to TB Mall not once - silly idea - yet no one ever got me hit there. Or anywhere when sprinting cover to cover, even legendary MP5 guys in HP area.

[quasi olive]

Clearly SBMM

[gleaming edge]

Exactly 👍

[burnt lance]

Update on this, my shots seem to be penning now that i have a brand new gun, and velocity decay isn't very strong on the AK12.
Maybe there's a bug where the weapon durability influences the penetration of the ammo directly?

Since now my shots are going through the armor in the same scenarios I was in before, it's like I'm playing on easy mode with my bullets actually working

[steep tree]

Velocity would definitely have an affect.

[burnt lance]

It would, but it was like -1% velocity

[dense anvil]

Which is why we are all beefing with the stat degradation in https://discord.com/channels/1166365362158313522/1487515700334690355 💀

[hasty hazel]

lol so many people say this 'only unemployed can play hard' infact i find more professionals like even a doctor smashing the hours in games like rust.

just gotta keep at it, and improve. the mistake is complaining to the devs to make the game easier. then theres no room for improvement. you can just watch youtube while playing

cos thats the current state of the game with the AI. no tactical gameplay (as advertised) unless its PVP.

bring back the glory days. 0.1

[waxen lily]

AI from 0.1 waiting for some one to support and bring back them to the game

[worldly rose]

Except they have 100% headshot accuracy and can see through bushes/walls

[solid shell]

Idk bout yall but I don’t wear helmets anymore because the AI just one tap me in the face every time now lol.

[waxen lily]

wear helmet and pray for rng

[waxen lily]

thats fine i said that 2 years ago if the ai dont have ability to fly and ininit ammo in single magazin

[dense anvil]

We didn't know how good we had it

Wasn't perfect but it was fun

[crystal hawk]

Gets said so many times lol. Bring back the AI fear and tactics forced upon us from .1. Better to hear people crying over dying than not getting loot. Get Gud plebeians

[stark hazel]

Farming EXP is so easy with repeatable tasks and easy/no AI. Some main tasks like "Mysterious Machines" can be done in 5 minutes 🙂

Rinse, repeat.

Not much excitement though.

[dense anvil]

Farming and RNG in my tactical shooter are not it

[stark hazel]

There is not much left to do but farming once all the tasks are done.

As for 0.1 AI, it was fun to have it difficult but the hive mind was bad. Most of the time one could sit in one room and wait for them to run there like mindless zombies and for player to pile up the bodies.
MS Hotel had this issue in 0.3 still, I was finding it very artificial and annoying. As for difficulty, I can't wait for some challenge.

Now they don't act very smart but it doesn't feel like hive mind anymore, even patrols when they go out to search for enemy, in MS they actually seem to cauciously seek for threat once shooting starts.
But the other patrols are still well underdeveloped.

[dense anvil]

I just went to YBL for the first time this patch. Those AI are amazing, I need all AI to be like that. I died a couple times but when I started taking them seriously I rediscovered the fun in fighting them

[hidden wedge]

lol and so many people say it’s just watch videos and get better infact this isn’t rust but I guess you were trying to make a point

Mistake is thinking and assuming people are complaining, sad way of thinking about everyone whenever there is a subject
Ai is fine, the same way you say get good we can say go play smth else and touch grass

Nostalgia hits hard with your 0.1 😂
I find more people in game doing tactical stuff then people saying what you say and complain about nostalgia days

There is always a point you can reach where you are too good, and game dosent feel challenging, that’s when you do smth else and enjoy life a bit

0.1 glitchy ai with bullet sponge
And one taps, yeah great days bet 🤣 fr play smth else a bit

[hasty hazel]

you have to be terrible if you think the current AI requires tactical gameplay and they are challenging. dont watch videos. just play against the hardest AI in various games, you get better.

0.1 wasnt nostalgia. if you peeked an enemy too long, you got shot. thats how it should be. people expecting to be able to face dudes shooting at you and just shrug it off.

do we want the world to feel like a theme park forest walk or a dangerous immersive world?

[frozen flame]

"if you peeked an enemy too long" my brother in Lamang, are you sure you arent remembering 0.2 instead of 0.1?

AI in 0.1 didnt give any room to peek at them, it was a 1/10th of a pixel peek headshot from them at you

Im starting to wish MFG would give us .1 AI for a week just to put an end to this nostalgia for the most broken terminator AI ever

[frozen flame]

Theres a middle ground there

We do after all fly over those same AI, do we wanna introduce (again?) getting shot and killed while on a helo ride?

[frozen flame]

Thats LLA, you had to have been to an LLA POI prior to YBL...?

[hasty hazel]

yeah, thats 0.1. back then you gotta do quick peeks instead of lol im peekin, hey enemy im shooting u, then the enemy is figuring out what to do

[rigid surge]

survival rate on that should have been 0%

[hidden wedge]

This yeah maybe but remember it’s a game has to be balanced- your belle button isn’t the only one playing + PvP aspect of things that’s where it’s supposed to be hard

But yeah, hopping a fence meeting 4 ai at this short range should leave you almost dead but not blasted immediately, that’s where you have PvP to take to to an insane unpredictable level

It’s a good base now to develop from it, where we are at now
Similar to Tarkov scavs

[hasty hazel]

holy god how do ppl think this is fine

[hidden wedge]

You gotta play smth else instead of just thinking g your idea of game is the best one

[hasty hazel]

lol

not just me. ppl know the AI is broken

[hidden wedge]

Yeah I see them all here with you 🥲

[hasty hazel]

#💬︱gzw-chat message

[hidden wedge]

XD

https://tenor.com/view/touching-grass-touch-gif-21219969

It’s a great base to go from, way better than when I first played gzw in 2024

And again like i wrote above, that video should have left you limping and crying but not dead if you are a good shot

Next level would be PvP 🤷🏼‍♀️

But yeah, you links def show mass of people saying what you do 🙌🏼 bet or smth

[hasty hazel]

ya

[rigid surge]

All the experienced players I talk to agree that AI is easier to deal with this patch.

The biggest difference is how forgiving the initial shots are.

Also there are fewer AI at POIs now. Like at Midnight there are way fewer AI.

[dense anvil]

I have but they weren't like that

[dense anvil]

I genuinely only want the aggression they had and the scare factor. Not necessarily how broken they were. Right now they are just "stand in one place and miss" machines

Another problem with AI right now is the fact that they miss and hit limbs 90% of the time, and the other 10% is them getting a lucky instant headshot that makes no sense outside of the fact that it was just chance.

The people who think I want all the broken parts of 0.1 back are mistaken about my intentions for this suggestion. 0.4 is a great leap from other patches in terms of AI behavior. It's just tragic that they are so unbelievably passive and weak, no one gets to even experience that. I specifically wanted the tactics and agression they once had cause that is what should make them hard, it's fun that way. The random chance slot machine aim they have right now has to go too.

So don't misconstrue my suggestion, I don't want aimbot. I don't want bullet sponges. I don't want hive mind. I don't want "terminators."

[steep tree]

I toom a 6 month hiatus from gaming when my kid was born and I am very diaspointed at how easy the AI is now compared to when I stopped. They're essentially shooting gallery targets that some times shoot back. 0.1 had them behaving in a way that was believable aside from the aimboting and sponginess. Like, TB actually felt like real street fighting. Having to fight from building to building and relentlessly aggressive AI. Thats how high tier areas should be. The starting town should have been tuned down a touch, and it has. The rest of the areas feel empty with how dumb the AI are. They're like zombies in stalker but cant hit for nothing.

[dense anvil]

Even if they have the same aim they do now if they took cover, fighting positions, worked together, moved around more, flanked, and suppressed more often they would be super fun to fight against

[steep tree]

They're hit percentage needs to go up a bit. Not much. Extremity and head shots are all they get now. They're aim priority is real wonky and there's no reason to carry anything more than a hemostat and a bandage because thats all the wounding youll take if it's not An immediate death. At least back then you had a real chance of being put into a coma.

Im sure there's an outsized percentage of deaths by headshot to bleed outs compared to previous patches.

[solid shell]

All my deaths via AI have been from face shots only. It’s ridiculous

[dense anvil]

We are just casino slot machines to the AI. They miss a lot and sometimes they win big

[crystal hawk]

Just going to leave this here....

[hasty hazel]

3 dudes, auto point blank, ur naked, u shouldve been dead way earlier

[crystal hawk]

yessir, thats the point. Obvious behavior forced so your screen cone has to be still on them by a certain threshold. They didnt engage until i stopped swinging my camera

but i do enjoy the UFO abduction death animations they have now

[rigid surge]

That death felt exactly like a player death lol

Bypassed my side plates and went straight to the heart

It was a patrol I didn't see on the right

[burnt lance]

Weird, I've been shot in the heart before with no armor and have lived.

[rigid surge]

I think it's b/c it's a mosin boi

[stark hazel]

I know AI is bugged most of the time, but actually they acted like real humans here - to the point.
Unless one is a sociopath and shoots on sight to anything that moves, they seemed quite real but one thing - they should start shooting just a bit earlier seeing a guy running at them with a knife.
But I like that they don't always shoot right away - sometime they just try to scare others off and it seems organic (except for obvious AI coding mistakes).
If they started shooting when you were like 15 meters away, that would be allright I guess.

[stark hazel]

I love this one. Another level of cursed village 😄

[long depot]

the AI is so inconsistent

[solid shell]

I don’t even wear helmets anymore. They always hit the face 😓

[frozen flame]

wear something else, they hit the side or back of your head

trollololo AI

[hidden wedge]

Trun off this tracker bull shit.. i get tracket with no loot when i die and respawn it shows im tracked and enemy knows where im even without loot so it must be bugged

happend to me now 5 times i die i go out and never pick up shit to just end up gettting tapped by someone who tarcks me

[neon brook]

Or maybe your definition of tactical is actually "sweaty COD lobby"? Do you stand in the open & trade shots with a numerically superior force or do you use cover, peak & shoot? Do you relocate after a few shots so you don't get zeroed in on? Do you lob a nade if 2 or more are near each other? Do you pie corners keeping most of your body out of enemy fire? Do you lean out from corners/cover to spot enemy locations?

Guess what? All of that is tactics. Fire, suppress, close distance via cover & concealment while avoiding being highlighted by doorways, the sky, lights, etc.

I've seen several (not all tbh) complain that the AI is too easy while exploiting an obviously unfinished ai, gamey mechanics & "run & gun" methods. So yea I'm pretty positive it would be no challenge to them.

My only real complaints about the AI is the sponginess SOME of them have & the really wild single tap headshots, while actively flinching from my hits, I get nailed with.

If you actually read all of this then all I'm really saying is actively define what you mean by no tactics & maybe realize you're using some tactics even if you don't think of them that way

[steep tree]

I mean, I have stood and delivered in front of multiple AI shooting FA at me to kill them all and not get hit on multiple occassions

[neon brook]

I have no doubt that incidents like that will happen occasionally, especially on this unfinished AI. Yes this AI needs some work & definitely buffs to use tactics against us, but the entire month that I've been playing (every day, min 3hrs as I'm a flatbed driver) I've truly treated this game like a tactical shooter & it has performed like 1 for the most part.

It's early access, so it's not remotely perfect, there are definitely bugs & lots of things are just plain missing but I'm still getting as much if not more enjoyment now than I did the 1st day I started

[steep tree]

If you've only been playing since the 0.4 release, you missed out on the original AI they had that actually would put down accurate fire and push you hard. The current AI has been heavily artificially turned down with lowered first round hit chance and no aggression comparatively.

[ornate summit]

I guess the issue is that you don't really need to treat it like that. You can larp it but it isn't a requirement to succeed.
Also since all the engagements are the same (ie the bots just stand and you tap them) there is no need to think too much on how you approach because right now you can't get flanked, ambushed, attacked or basically anything. There is just one 'game mode' and it is like terrorist hunt. You alway attack, they are always unprepared. Tbh I didn't play for awhile because it all became kind of repetitive and boring

[neon brook]

That is definitely the case from all the comments referring to prior updates I've read, but I don't think this is the level of AI the devs want. I truly think it's this way right now because of the massive changes made in other areas. It's give some take some as the updates roll out, I'm pretty sure most if not all the complaints now will be looked back on in the future like "damn, the devs really cooked. This is a fantastic game".

[neon brook]

No it certainly isn't a requirement, nor should it be forced either. The devs are building a game, they have an ideal way it should be played but no 1 is obligated to do that. Nor should anyone be made to play that way.

It's a tactical shooter, so that's how I treat it & how I get enjoyment from it. Could it be better? Absolutely & I really think it will.

But I'm self aware enough to not hop in cod or battlefield & try playing those like a tactical shooter nor to complain (like some not all) that they don't live up to my tactical shooter expectations.

I guess I'm just mildly irritated with those who criticize but don't constructively criticize. Here is a game being made by devs actively listening to their player base to make the "game of their dreams", it's just so damn rare I feel like something should be said to prevent the worst of us from ruining what could really be 1 of the best games ever made

[ornate summit]

TBH it doesn't feel like it. It feel like they try to force it. for example the movement feels like it is tailored for 'slow and methodical' gameplay ONLY. The strafe speed is basically sneaking speed. you can sprint for exactly 1 nano meter. every fall (even from a small rock) locks your mouse completely... it is so clunky it is basically forcing you to move like a snail. A good tac shooter IMO will give you the ability to move at faster pace but will punish you for it. this game simply take this ability from you.. I don't think there is any other tac shooter where the strafe speed is so slow like in this game

[rigid surge]

what are you talking about

it's fine that you pretend to be tactical, glad you're having fun

but there's a lot of good constructive feedback on the ai in this very thread

[neon brook]

This, this is actual constructive criticism. This should be highlighted & brought up to the devs.

[rigid surge]

i even posted video examples

and what zarkov said is 100% on point

in the past if you peeked wrong you die, period

if you're in the open for a second against military ai, you die

they dumbed it down severely because people's reaction times are really bad

there were also more ai at the difficult locations. like a lot more.

[neon brook]

I thought about making a general comment about this but since you brought it up specifically: yes in this tread I'd say 99% of the comments have been actually constructive & I'm far more active in here, even if it's just reading what others have put, than most threads. But so damn many threads are just complaining & throwing suggestions that completely ignores the fact that this is early access, it's not even close to feature complete & even runs counter to the initial premise the devs pitched the game on

[rigid surge]

feedback shouldnt take into account that its early access

it should just be feedback

"game 2 ez, ai sux" is still good feedback

doesn't need to be a novel

[neon brook]

Really? Even if what you're complaining about not having has already been laid out in a roadmap of future updates? That's lazy & bitching for the sake of bitching

[neon brook]

No that's called criticism, feedback implies giving suggestions for improvement. Not: me no like, me bitch, you fix. Without ever saying what could be better

[ornate summit]

This game doesn't utilize your reaction time anyway. anything your character does takes ages it makes your actual reflexes meaningless. even holding breath takes like 1sec. I always feel like my character is much slower than my inputs. In such cases I would hate the AI to be faster than my character. If my character takes 1 sec to aim his gun than the AI should also be slow like that

[rigid surge]

As someone who develops stuff in another industry, I assure you that the most valuable feedback is simply what players are feeling and experiencing. Actual suggestions are hit or miss because players/users don't have enough information to know what's actually viable.

[rigid surge]

Criticism is also feedback.

[rigid surge]

You can definitely play fast but you just can't hold breath while doing it.

You can point fire at pretty decent ranges if you practice at it.

(it was the case before too but it was less forgiving)

[ornate summit]

even holding breath while standing still takes very long compared to other fps games. but it is just one example. the game constantly gives me the feeling that my character is very slow and can't keep up with my inputs

btw the time it takes him to lift his gun after it goes down when you get too close to a wall.... holy shit

[rigid surge]

Learn the distances so it doesn't happen 🙂

[ornate summit]

how do you strafe fast?

[rigid surge]

Diagonal forward

Don't stafe, push forward

[ornate summit]

exactly. no strafe.

[rigid surge]

so?

not every game needs to have fast strafe

[ornate summit]

and diagonal movement has an unrealated camera glitch bug

[rigid surge]

you learn the mechs of the game you're playing

slow strafe doesn't mean you can't play fast

[ornate summit]

It is just super slow. so if these are the rules of the game i would expect the AI to play by the same rules. but the AI can strafe very fast

[rigid surge]

yea that's true lol. their strafe speed is kind of ridiculous.

horizontal aiming/tracking is also the hardest for most players (including me)

[maiden gate]

same

The AI can haul ass at times too like damn

[dense anvil]

I vote either we can strafe fast or AI strafe slow

[rigid surge]

i personally don't mind if ai has abilities we don't. i know some people prefer a 1:1 match.

as long as they're difficult (which they are not right now)

[ornate summit]

The point is that I don't want to feel like I am being limited by my character. It creates a disconnect. If I feel like I have to ADS super fast in order to beat the AI reaction time (in case they increase it), but my character will not let me do it - it feels like an artificial difficulty. My character abilities need to fit the conditions he will need to deal with.
If strafing to the side force me to a certain speed, in which my hitbox is visible to the AI before I can shoot - it makes no sense for the AI to have fast reaction to the point it can shoot me before I had the chance to shoot him. This is the type of balance I would expect.. their reaction and aim should fit our character abilities and not be artificially high

[rigid surge]

i don't think it's ever been that bad

they had fast reaction times but strafe speed wasn't the limiting factor

[ornate summit]

Idk by the way people describe it it sounds like you want terminator bots lol

[rigid surge]

kinda yea. terminator bots would be cool.

[dense anvil]

I just want their animations to be less exaggerated

[dense anvil]

I never had much of a problem with them. It was just a learning curve

[ornate summit]

well the limit should be if their AI would be injected into my pmc - my pmc should still have a chance

[rigid surge]

soooo... my dream would be that soloing midnight sapphire or tiger bay or narith should be almost impossible

like less than 1% of people could do that

so to do it reliably you gotta team up with people

but other locations would be easier

sort of how a very small % of people can do a no death run of resident evil 9 on insanity mode

[ornate summit]

I wouldn't like that, but even if it is so - it shouldn't be artificially hard. it should be hard because the AI will move, flank, always surprise you. not becasue they can be more accurate than you, faster than you, have better recoil or accuracy etc

I don't mind the AI being difficult to fight against in general, just what makes them difficult

[rigid surge]

hmm yea thats honestly tough to do

i dont know of any games that do it

usually what makes ai hard is they can one shot you, are bullet sponges, and there are many of them

in most games

[ornate summit]

and since we know they are going to make them move more.. than maybe you don't need to improve their aim or reaction time. their sheer numbers + the fact that they can move could be enough

[rigid surge]

yea honestly that could be enough

also there's a pretty big difference in ai difficulty in pve games vs pvp games

[ornate summit]

Even right now there are very rare cases that I fight AI and they suddenly decide to push me. happend to me a couple of times and suddenly it felt like they became sentient lol

[rigid surge]

in pvp games the ai is usually not that difficult and more of a nuisance

and in pve games the ai difficulty can be much higher b/c that's the only thing you're actually fighting

but then most pve games have difficulty settings

[dense anvil]

With the AI in Incursion Red River, on expert they have average aim, but the tactics they use make them so much harder. They'll effectively surround you and move cover to cover. If you don't break contact sometimes it is a death sentence

Tactics will def make them much harder

[ornate summit]

Yeah. And since there is PvP here I also feel like making them too difficult will not be so fun. like i should be able to solo them, but it means i need to be super slow, and by that I put myself in more danger to die to other players. so the tradoff is take risk to clear the AI by yourself and possibly die to a player or play fast against the AI and risk dying to them

[rigid surge]

yea i like that

but then in joint ops it'll make the ai too easy

[ornate summit]

I still think PvE should have super high level AI instead of other factions that can randomly spawn based on distance from the enemy HQ and basically mimic the other pmcs that are in Pvevp

It is just two different experience you can't balance both at the same time

[dense anvil]

T1 and T2 AI will still be soloable. It's really just the higher level AI that should take a higher level of skill

[ornate summit]

even if I fight the low tier AI in PvEvP when I am close to the enemy faction HQ - it will play differently because I know there is a high chance a human will come to hunt me. this is not something you can do in PvE - basically all fights are the same regardless of where you are.

[dense anvil]

It would solve so many problems. People will stop complaining about all AI being dead and everything looted, we won't need to have the super punishing durability system anymore since you'll lose gear more often, in PvP other players will also move slower so you don't have to worry about someone blazing through and mowing you down in the crossfire

[zinc elbow]

I play PvP, still too easy. 🤷‍♂️

[dense anvil]

I was moving slowly through Tiger Bay the other day and a dude blew past me running in the open and firing full auto at anything that moved. Full on COD style "tactics," it seriously feels pointless to play tactically in this tactical shooter

Everything ahead of me was dead and it was all looted. This is the real reason why that happens

People like that used to just die for playing like that and they would come here and complain the game is too hard

[zinc elbow]

Seriously, that's what I do, there's no reason to play slow when the AI miss 95% of shots and just stare at you waiting to get one tapped.

[dense anvil]

They fight like hollywood gunfights now. No cover, full auto

[frozen flame]

could be worse...could be bollywood gunfights

[dense anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-dodge-neo-gif-13288848

GZW future bollywood AI

[frozen flame]

https://youtu.be/FNpbM9KfaXk?si=TQwJ3JvB8xdHBEf7

[dense anvil]

It just kept going 😂

[frozen flame]

I'm thinking this is what it would look if two AI patrols from opposing factions met right now

[maiden gate]

[dense anvil]

I've seen an AI shoot his buddy in front of him while shooting at me

It's funny that it's something that would actually happen with fighting against gangs and pirates

[remote fulcrum]

I have a clip from 0.3 of AI killing his friend while trying to kill me

[hasty hazel]

i dont play COD, never have. i play like tarkov. move cover to cover, change position when shooting a group, quick peeks, all the stuff i was doing in 0.1 to stay alive, then i realized i can just do nothing but point and shoot now

[steep tree]

Dynamic AI spawns would also help. Currently there's fixed routes players can take that are unprotected. Its so routine to take those paths with no resistance that adding extra patrol paths, booby traps, or random spawn chance will help address that.

[dense anvil]

Maybe server load is a concern but if it is possible AI could also move around a POI more. Clearing sectors and often checking known entries like holes in fences

[hasty hazel]

thats a good point actually, in another game i play, starcitizen, AI reaction, intelligence, accuracy is all affected by current server FPS, if its below optimal they become stupidly easy. maybe GZW could add a debug panel that can be activated to observe server tickrate is healthy before judging AI behavior in future iterations.

though the AI in this game for me at least has been consistently bad so i dont think it is the tickrate. maybe if client ping/packetloss isnt optimal then it does the reverse and makes them more difficult?

[dense anvil]

I normally have much higher fps in the YBL bunker. Like over 240 if I don't limit it... maybe that's why they act "as intended" down there? Same with the trenches. Pretty much the only two locations where AI actually makes me clench. Also the only places I go and see dead players before me

[waxen lily]

i noticed ai spawn is broken but cant confirm in same place ai spwn 2 time within 10 min and next time it took 40 min for the same ai

[ornate summit]

I think it is just this paricular AI faction. They are batshit crazy

[waxen lily]

I think loot and AI are meant to spawn every 30 minutes if no players are nearby, but the system seems coded to only check a small radius for player activity. If no one is in that short range, AI and loot still spawns even if players are actually close by. These two systems are conflicting and messing up both loot and AI spawns.

[dense anvil]

I don't even remember fighting them before that to be honest

[frozen flame]

I don't think there will ever be a good solution to this. And it's a big problem for a persistent online world of this type.

I'd love to see something like this, if at all possible or viable;

• POI is cleared and looted
• 10 or 15 min later the first audible alert is given that a repop is about to happen
• repop does not happen if players are there, you have 5 min to leave the POI
• if all players leave, POI repops within 5 min, second audible alert

For FN it can be a few, distinct alarm sounds, maybe some voicelines over the speakers.
For MS like some automated fire alarm or an advertisement for an event at the golf course.
TB can have something UNLRA and Lamang Gov related.

Can add some kind of layers to this, but the general idea is to somehow deal with the (seemingly) random repops in POI.

You get there and a few AI are there, who knows if repoped or never killed. Then a few repop behind and/or in front of you. Loot (especially containers) didn't repop at the same time. Overall a weird and potentially bad experience.

it's not an "instance" so the world is still open and persistent

[hasty hazel]

implement a zone based 'heat' system. if too many players are sitting around a cleared POI, and more players arrive, trigger a reinforcement event, enemies arrive from outside to in, rather than 'pop' spawn. enemies arriving is based off the players individual heat rating, an invisible stat that is calculated by K/D, time in zone, shots fired.

[quasi olive]

This is the reason why most open world "persistent" games go with zombies as AI lol

No need for tactics, just straight up aggression, and beeline for the player

[frozen flame]

those reinforcements have to "pop" from somewhere

which leads to just sitting at the spawn points for the reinforcements, because it's only a matter of time before players figure out where the spawn points are

also, why make it so complex by calculating shots fired, number of players, player stats, time spent, whatever else?

anyone there? yes, then no repop
no one there? nope, cool, repop timer begins

[quasi olive]

Intelligent Zombies, they rise up from the ground where ever players are not!

[waxen lily]

bring ai like arena brak out ininity thier respawn like gettting reinforcement not something raise from ground or fall from sky

[frozen flame]

ABI isn't open world but instance-maps right?

[quasi olive]

Yup

[hasty hazel]

players arent gonna roam far out to camp reinforcements, especially if you spread them out enough, or have code to prevent them spawning if someone is camping a spot. you'd do it for the whole radius around the POI. the calculations are for determining the difficulty, numbers of the reinforcements

it also wouldnt be a guarantee, it would only occur if an area has stayed clear and more players show up

[frozen flame]

"players arent gonna roam far out to camp reinforcements" - its an open world, players can be anywhere at any time, given enough reason to be in the area, and we have more and more reasons each update (especially with 0.4 which set the bar high)
"if you spread them out enough" - still fixed points that can be camped
"have code to prevent them spawning if someone is camping a spot" - kinda defeats the entire point doesnt it?

[hasty hazel]

not at all, if people want to camp reinforcements, then that'll spawn the POI enemies, then. lol

its easy to prevent spawn camping, just have lots of spawn points randomized

[frozen flame]

i thought you mean respawn of the entire POI, not the additional AI

[dense anvil]

Someone had an idea like this before. It was going the right direction but they weren't open to ideas. I do think something like this done right would be cool

[empty gate]

Thats what bothers me the most. I want the same rules applied to the AI. They should move and suffer like us so it feels fair. But they should also behave more clever and use cover, flanking etc as well. I don’t want chicken hunter which gives me occasional unrealistic headshots. Difficulty then comes by tiers and numbers

[dense anvil]

20 deaths this patch so far. Only 4 of those weren't a random one tap for no reason

[hasty hazel]

have the AI train off pvp. lol. that'll make em mean. unreal engine has a machine learning plugin now i believe

[rigid surge]

imagine AI training off cheaters

rip everyone

[empty gate]

Even when training on non cheating players, you’d still have to tone them down. Otherwise you wouldn’t make it out of starting town. Imagine only you being up against a dozen human players.

[rigid surge]

yea it could be modeled on various percentiles of skill levels (however that's determined)

[waxen lily]

thats what 0.1 ai

[frozen flame]

so all AI will do is sit in bushes, zerg COPs, and still headshot people?

[stark hazel]

It would be better if AI was trained by professionals, if it learns from PvP it's going to learn good and bad, including toxic behaviours.

[arctic pawn]

They'll start doxing players for cheating aswell I reckon.

[frozen flame]

just a spam of automated reports to MFG about player XYZ "hitting headshots just a bit too good for the avg gamer"

[rigid surge]

I think cheating is a major problem right now but it does annoy me a bit when people's whole reason for calling cheats is "he headshot me"

[orchid acorn]

I volunteer myself as tribute.

When I am done, the AI will smoke Marlboros like a chimney, use 'fuck' fluently as a stand-in for any word, drink like a fish, and find anything with two legs attractive.

Oh, it'll sing the Marine Hymn endlessly, and complain about literally anything, all the time. These are features, not bugs.

[rigid surge]

and after all that it'll still one tap you

[orchid acorn]

Damn straight. Every Marine a rifleman and all that.

[dense anvil]

Most realistic thing they can do for the LAF specifically

[hidden wedge]

I think the headsets are broken

I noticed you get additionally hearing with them

Should Only be amplified steps should be heard at same distance no matter headset that’s the most common thing that gets reported as cheating

When someone hears you at 70 meters and you don’t have a single cue of sound

Everyone should hear 70meters
Headsets should amplify the sound to make it hear easier not further away, no one expects it when they are new and it is a silly game mechanic

[dense anvil]

It is stupid but there would be no reason to wear better headsets if all they did was make things louder when I can just turn up the volume in my audio software. Same with if they amplified specific sounds. I can turn down environmental sounds and raise lower frequencies where footsteps are with an equalizer.

[hidden wedge]

So you can do that in any other game, making magic headsets dosent help the issue

And just saying that you can work around it dosent make it less stupid
Right now 25 meters and audio cuts off dosent make sense

If one will take time to F with equlizers and stuff one have no life xD

But I guess its better to have 1000 reports of cheats instead of making the game mechanics make sense and be logical for people 🤷🏼‍♀️

Not doing anything and just keeping headset isn’t exactly s fix either, these headsets are broken

Same thing happens to gamma and stuff people can cheat with it too?
Dose it stop the devs with not making darker nights etc ?

I don’t Think so, they are making it realistic so i expect headset to be same

@stark hazel don’t need to just X on me, seems like you like the broken headsets so you can Bully noobs that dont understand it 🥲
Sad

I would love a more lvl playing field, magic makes it worse and not logical

Right now its grim, a person with no headset has 0% chance on winning
A fight if he made a sound at 70 meters

Compared to a player who is fully geared and can hear you all over the place

Making headsets more logical would allow for a more level playing field, allowing both players to use sound
And headset only amplifying the steps etc, this will provide less suspected cheaters from new comers and make it more fair
Current audio just stops at 25 meters with no headset which dosent make sense and is silly

This breaks up the fairness if a player is wearing 70meters hearing aids

Arguing against this by simply saying people will abuse it dosent make sense, people abuse anything but this would provide a better base for newbies and in general make more sense instead of cutting off audio fully, audio dosent work like that in Real life

[stark hazel]

Devs got some various brand headsets, took them out in the field to see how it works and based on that they are simulating how these headsets work in real life. It was told about in one of the devs live streams.
There might be some sound bugs sometime with sound but it's work in progress.

Please, could you share where did you get statistics from about "headphones are the most common reason to be reported as cheating"?

[stark hazel]

Following your logic everyone should have the same weapon and ballistic protection, so the field is leveled...

We all have started at some point and had it harder than others. It's part of the game.
You will get there too.

Be patient, learn, enjoy the game.
Part of the learning curve is to get over lost battles and carry on.

[hidden wedge]

I don’t need to provide statistics im a player

But if you don’t just listen to what you want you will notice people complaining about cheats and what gear they use “no headset”

Also, having tested this my self it feels like blatant cheats when as i explained multiple times, audio just cuts off like if you paused it

Yes it’s a work in progress no shot Sherlock 🥲💚 but it dosent change the fact that it’s broken for now and adds to the suspected cheating issue

These headset do not provide hearing above 60meters irl that Is just a cap, hearing aid like that works in a different way my guy

It is there to muffle out the noise like gun fire, or loud noises

In real-world tactical environments, a headset will not typically triple your hearing distance from 25 meters to 70 meters for a sound as faint as footsteps. While military headsets like 3M Peltor ComTacs or Ops-Core AMPs provide active sound amplification, their primary goal is restoring "natural" hearing while wearing protection.

Search it up, it dose not provide magical 70meters sounds of steps

So I don’t know what magic devs are using in the studio. 🥹

But I bet USArmy would like those comtacts

[hidden wedge]

And following my logic things makes sense you don’t need to try to get me personally because i know these things don’t make sense

So let’s make it about the game not anyone’s logic 😉
And let’s look into facts and real life examples

And I actually don’t get the condescending way you started to write 😂 like I prob wiped you in the jungle couple times

The way you write is very personal and attacking like if I was a noob who just got started 😂😂😂

Let it out I’m waiting

[stark hazel]

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings and if I sounded like I was attacking you. English is not my first language, natives would probably put it in better words.
Communication is a skillI'm still learning.

Also, I didn't use these headsets in real life, so I might be wrong, I just trusted devs streams. It put me in bad position, my mistake.

[hidden wedge]

Ah, I guess before writing read it or put it in ai

I think you know exactly what you did 😉 they always do that when someone provides good points the other guy starts to nag about how little one may have played and will get gut with time 😂

Ah maybe I missunderstood then but usually it is just to bully one

😂

And I know it’s difficult to balance the headsets because people expect them to give more sound, but it can’t be as it is currently

And yes I play game a lot 😂💚

And it should always amplify not add extra meters of sound

[stark hazel]

Nah, I'm far from putting down people especially if they just started playing. And I believe putting down people because one believes they are just started playing is low - kind of toxic ego boost - that I wouldn't do.
Not everyone out there is to get you - sometime people are wrong. I was wrong, I'm not afraid to say that.

[hidden wedge]

I’m sorry for calling you out like that, written words usually gets read how one expects the other person

So it’s my bad 💚

[stark hazel]

We're good. No worries 🍻

Every time things like that happens it makes me feel like I really want to improve my communications skill to the next level.

So I appreciate this conversation in any way.

[hidden wedge]

It’s the written words, they get so twisted, can’t hear the guy so you make it up

I do it, everyone dose it it’s a god damn curse

[dense anvil]

Trust me more people than you think will take the time to do that which still creates the same unfair environment, in fact people already do, at least I know for a fact in Tarkov. Don't know enough about PvP in this game to know how sweaty it is. There are entire reddit groups dedicated to creating the most competitive gaming setups with software settings and whatnot.

If anything limiting cheaper headsets keeps people from running the cheapest gear and still competing with the best gear, again there would be no reason to buy better ones.

They would need some other advantage other than just making things louder or quieter if they were made to hear things at the same distance

[ornate summit]

The noise figure of a headset together with the gain is what makes it better or worse.

[hidden wedge]

i get what you say, but wearing headset would still be a great option if they made them normal, and yes tarkov has the issue with audio, Arma has issue with gamma like other shooters etc some things we just cant be like, oh people can misuse so we cant use that feature

Would still prefer to be able to have normal audio over forced headsets i have to buy

see smth like binoculars, its a choice, your weapon is your choice, armor is a choice but headset is a forced unspoken part of a kit a nooby have to have without knowing

it feels more like a mobile game feature then smth a tactical shooter would implement in that way

[dense anvil]

I'm done playing devil's advocate lol. I see what you mean. I didn't even know they extended hearing range myself before I used the quads and noticed I can hear into the 4th dimension. It's a pretty gamey feature regardless to have them. Their main purpose is as hearing protection, which we don't need in game. In reality we would be better off not wearing them since there is no consequence to our ears. Unless we could manually adjust the gain

[manic haven]

pvp is easy lol, i have 1.5 kd with 339 player kills

[hasty hazel]

its a more casual game. pvp in this is much easier than in tarkov

[stark hazel]

While doing tasks or camping congested areas? 🤣

[frozen flame]

that "1.5 kid" confused me at first...."how do you have one and a half kid?!"

[manic haven]

while tasking, looting or COP takeover

[manic haven]

anything is possible these days

[main trout]

Lets see what 0.4.2. brings. Maybe we finally get some form of a challenge back.

[crystal hawk]

Alright boys go to a endgame areas and fight the AI

https://tenor.com/view/you-can-gif-27326947

[frozen flame]

drops 55 mortars on MS

I dunno man...seems the same...

[quasi olive]

They've increased accuracy, woop, more insta headshots!

[rigid surge]

Be careful what you wish for boys. This is gonna be fun 🤩

[arctic pawn]

they need to look at the damage they take over causing more deaths to us.

[worldly rose]

Looks like this post is defunct xD

[steep tree]

That much change?

[worldly rose]

Not played the new update yet, but it looks like the changes are pretty drastic, makes fights much more dynamic

AI also wont just stand there anymore

They will move to cover or just move around

[dense anvil]

If I am satisfied once I get to play later I'll change the purpose of this post lol

[quasi olive]

But we don't have enough threads to derail about seperating progression!!!!

[stark hazel]

I have PTSD kicking in every time a new update/patch is landing. I never know what to expect of AI right after 🤣

[pseudo hamlet]

Still Scavs are to easy, make them roam more and make that look diffrent (clothes) so it will not look like u killing all the time same bot and make them have more type of weapons

[stark hazel]

Did you play before 0.4? Now every bot faction looks different. We have like 7 distinctive factions. Before 0.4 we had like 2 types LAF and flip flops 🤣

[pseudo hamlet]

Nope, and yet it feels like killing one same scav with same eq, cant die from them unless random as headshot from 100m, going to t3 zone should feel dangerous and for now im feeling more threatened going to first city (t1)

Cause im feeling like bots there actually shoot u

[crystal hawk]

You guys saying they act the same after this patch?

Haven’t finished work yet to try it out

[worldly rose]

No, they move around more, try to get cover more and suppress more

Theres more of them too

[crystal hawk]

Yeah I want to get lit up a lot more and punished for just trying to run through the open.

[worldly rose]

Now thats the spirit, already starting to like you

[pseudo hamlet]

theres good improvement but still im feeling it should get better one (still they cooked in this update)

dont get me wrong im glad that they are hearing us

[crystal hawk]

Yeah, I’m probably going to end up arguing to have even higher reaction from AI (it’s fine if it’s distance based) then tone down the % chance to get headtapped and up the legs chest areas

Punishing players gets a more milsim reaction then just making T-1000s on the playing field

[worldly rose]

I saw someone say that they are hitting centre mass more often

[crystal hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-good-gewd-star-wars-episode-3-gif-15386400457909814305

Gotta get that milsim action in somehow. Peek a whole mob and you should be fixing yourself lmfao

[pseudo hamlet]

Make bots slur at us like in tarkov (just add option in settings to turn it on and off so kids or just ppl who are not enjoying it can turn it off)

[crystal hawk]

lol make a new thread for AI behavior

[pseudo hamlet]

just imagine looting and then from bushes u hear that u are fk xD

[crystal hawk]

i want them to gimme that finger bro, so i can pipe some 12ga in their buttcheeks

[crystal hawk]

this comes off in an accidentally agressive nature that can be taken in an odd way. Apologies xD

[robust coral]

Why is it easier to get hit while running? In reality, isn't shooting a moving target harder than shooting a stationary one?

[crystal hawk]

So the main issue I’ve seen evolve is people open body peeking entire squads of ai and eventually get killed and cry about it. (There’s in between on each case but sums it up).

Regardless of running or just taking a bad path, you should be punished for not having a tactical approach and exposing yourself

[worldly rose]

People left peek lean way too much is all I have to say

[dense anvil]

0.4 AI Discussion

I'm capitalizing

[worldly rose]

This is one of the most popular posts might aswell keep it going

[pseudo hamlet]

My deaths are not talking like that, for 82h got killed like 6times 1 from chopper (was messing in settings and didnt payed attention to landing point) and 5 from not bleeding or anything, 5 from random as headshots on first nullet from mp5 in 100m

[proper blaze]

i have noticed no difference in ability, the only change i have seen is that they run more...But they still do the classic. crouch -wait 2 seconds- stand up again

[robust coral]

That doesn't explain why, in an open area, the AI has a higher hit rate when shooting at a moving target than at a stationary one.

[dense anvil]

I noticed that. I'm better off standing in the open and shooting than moving cover to cover. At least when my whole body is exposed they can hit something other than my head

[maiden gate]

The AI fires in a cone around the player I believe. When moving you literally walk into their bullets since they do not lead iirc. Hence standing still or relatively stationary is safer

[worldly rose]

True

No Cap

fr fr

I've had way too much caffeine dont mind me

[maiden gate]

Though if you're running directly towards or away then you should be safe. It's running perpendicular to the AI that gets you more likely to be hit.

[dense anvil]

So if they had a dispersion effect instead on their aim, and maybe tracked targets with a lead by like raytracing (I just learned what that is so I want to use it even if it's wrong) their aim to aim ahead of a moving target it'd probably feel more natural

[steep tree]

It's honestly really easy inside 150m

[robust coral]

What I mean is, at the same distance, for a normal person, hitting a stationary target is always easier than hitting a running target, isn't it? I'm not saying that just because you're moving, you won't get hit.

But the current experience in the game is completely the opposite: standing your ground and fighting back is actually safer than sprinting toward the nearest cover. A friend of mine told me that the current code design makes the AI's "crosshair" move faster when targeting a running player. To give a simple example, I once tested that when I walked around an AI at a distance of 1 meter, the AI couldn't keep up with my speed and kept missing me (in actual gameplay, a common manifestation of this design is when I'm at a corner — the AI will step out first and then slowly turn its gun toward me). However, when I started sprinting behind the AI, it would instantly turn around and shoot at me.

When I tested it with walking, the AI was like a tank turret turning slowly.

[dense anvil]

I'm happy with the direction AI have gone in. This was good

[obtuse moth]

Why cant the ai be trained to copy the movement and behavior of a certain KD this is what machine learning should be doing to justify ram prices

[stark hazel]

So far in game AI has no learning ability, it's just code with a tree of choices.
Sooner or later we'll get there though, I believe.

[frozen flame]

i have my doubts about that being useful at all

start with this "certain KD" - which KD, how would you compensate for the KD from those using cheats in a non-raging way? trying to be "sneaky"?
then what tactics are we talking about here exactly?

you can bush camp, mortar spam, and get a decent KD

Ai learning from players is gonna go as well as these "AI"s that suddenly recommend sucking a menthol for pneumonia

[burnt lance]

The most difficult ai just standing in bushes waiting to fire mortars they could never actually use.

[stark hazel]

Yeah, AI learning from players not profesionals would rather suck. We'd get a lot of good stuff but also a lot of toxic shit.

[steep tree]

Give LAF access to mortars.

[frozen flame]

point was "certain KD" can (and most likely does) mean jack shit

[boreal spoke]

Bring Solarint to help on AI. This guy did an excellent job on the games we work on and made mods.

[frozen flame]

AI is definitely improved this last patch, but their "lock on" during night time is still very "ESP-ish"....or at least give AI floodlights so I can understand why they suddenly see me light its daylight or I've got a big neon arrow pointing at me

[frozen flame]

was already suggested a number of times....while I've no idea if MFG ever addressed it, plenty have pointed out that they're looking for people to work on AI but all job listings are "on-site"

[boreal spoke]

It's good to know that more people have talked about him. I'd like to see the AI ​​programmed by him on GZW. His performance on IRR is fantastic, best AI ever .

[frozen flame]

atm we're all waiting on UE upgrade because then MFG should have a lot more room to play with the AI

[proper blaze]

didnt they already upgrade to UE 5.5 ? or they going to go for 5.6/5.7 ?

[obtuse moth]

Listen you angry little sausage dog they dont have to use every tactic the devs can cherry pick the behaviors they want in the spirit of their vision for the game use that two brain cells to think for a change

Also it was a suggestion or idea calm your tits

[proper blaze]

might wanna take your ''calm your tits'' advice yourself. So seem angry yourself for someone countering your suggestion in a discussion thread.

[obtuse moth]

Who asked

[worldly rose]

Me

[obtuse moth]

Nah ya didnt

[worldly rose]

https://tenor.com/view/right-lol-yeah-ok-yea-gif-5695937

[frozen flame]

5.7 IIRC should come with 0.5

[proper blaze]

ooooooo more performance no ?

[frozen flame]

https://tenor.com/view/sibby-tits-calm-tits-gif-14273628

[proper blaze]

no you didnt do the joke correctly

[frozen flame]

yes but in terms of AI, apparently it will give them room to use a lot more resources

[worldly rose]

What on earth xD

[robust coral]

When hitting an AI, the bullet still behaves like a needle — there is still no cavitation effect.

At dusk, because the night is darker, players have difficulty seeing distant targets, and indoors it is even completely dark. However, the AI's detection range remains above 70 meters and is not affected at all.🙁

[proper blaze]

oohh that sounds nice

[dense anvil]

I would volunteer to train a certain AI personality profile. Call then the "Cowards" because they run from threats and flank again later

[frozen flame]

just typed "calm your tits" and it delivered XD

[frozen flame]

what if they implement bayonets? 👀

[dense anvil]

I see the LLA using them. Run out of ammo and charge

[steep tree]

Finally got to play with the new AI. The definitely move more and advance. Still not accurate enough to be a threat tho

[pliant geyser]

Not everyone wants a hardcore experience man. The current AI imo is hard enough. Especially with these janky movements and the fact they just eat bullets with no impact on their capacities.

[robust coral]

AI has infinite ammo, infinite stamina, wounds and pain don't affect their shooting accuracy, and their vision isn't hindered by grass or the darkness of dusk. Yet no one says this is unrealistic.

[pliant geyser]

Yes, that is what i said

What is your point ?

@robust coral

I just don't get why people want to play against terminators.

[robust coral]

Exactly. Some people turn a blind eye to these issues, yet claim things are unrealistic in areas that aren't even critical to the gameplay right now. I hope everyone can come together and demand that MFG improve the most fundamental gameplay experience of an FPS.

Right now, AI are just "humanoid tanks," while players are "disabled." Yet some still insist that AI should have higher accuracy instead of behaving more like humans. And MFG actually went ahead and increased AI accuracy — which doesn't make the game more fun.

Not to mention that these same people love to mock players who don't accept these changes as "weak."

[pliant geyser]

I feel like the current accuracy is good

Its still avoidable but punishes you for being reckless

What pisses me off is people going "WeLl dUh hE idnt DiE after 10 5.56 rounds in the plate carrier you dont use the roper rounds" my brother in christ after 3 rounds in the plate he should be screaming in pain. Whether it HP, FMJ or 855A1

Sorry for bad english

[robust coral]

It depends on the specific situation regarding accuracy. Right now, AI becomes more and more accurate as the number of shots increases. When the accuracy gets high enough, the AI can even kill cheaters using speed hacks — those cheaters look as fast as the Flash. That's why people feel that enemies using SMGs are far more terrifying than those using rifles.

[obtuse moth]

Respectfully you should try out 1 player fps shooters with a difficulty slider if you dont want a challenging game go play in jouralist mode with games rated 10 / 10 by IGN

This isnt CS or seige but its not hello kitty adventure either

[pliant geyser]

They should be affected by light conditions, weatherand all

[robust coral]

Also, the weapons and sights they use, and so on — the AI should behave more like a human.