#Servers are way too congested, everything is dead and looted

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latent pendant
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This btw is why I was thinking removing large backpacks could (maybe!) help fix this issue. If the maximum amount of loot a player can take is reduced then you can still keep the same density/chokepoint/etc situation but people just need to go back and forth more.

hazy pivot
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A lot of players wouldnt like the idea of the player themself being nerfed lmao

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Same with the tac wallets, lots of complaints about that one

latent pendant
knotty latch
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Or give increasing amounts of negatives to weight?

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At the moment its just 1, you go slower and can't mantle

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But if you carry to much, you can't move or it drains stamina till you can't move

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(kinda like tarkov)

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And that means you don't have to nerf backpacks?

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Just a thought but still something needs to be done though

latent pendant
brazen grotto
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Honestly reducing the impact of it would help a lot with experience, the aforementioned task system rework, perhaps loot only gives half the experience, maybe give players other ways to make money like crafting(which is coming) and even other methods? It's kind of silly how we're playing as bank robbers 99% of the time

latent pendant
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That way it also becomes a big risk in Joint Ops.

knotty latch
latent pendant
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I haven't done many runs in Joint but when I have I just let myself get as fat as possible.

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Never even come close to dying because of it

knotty latch
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Yeah thats the issue, because the AI are not really a threat even if you move slowly it still isn't a risk

latent pendant
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Yea. If AI was more of a threat it would solve so many problems

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(while also not being cheesy terminator aimbots)

knotty latch
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As with all things with this game the problem is nuanced and would require multiple avenues of attack to "fix" certain "metas" at the moment

latent pendant
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Doesn't arc raiders have a sort of boss type enemy? And people need to work together to fight it?

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Like if you tried to solo that thing it would really mess you up

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It's a huge spider or something. I obviously haven't played the game lol

knotty latch
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On your own

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And all the devs did to make it harder, more AI lol

latent pendant
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oh wow ok

knotty latch
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And nerf the rewards

latent pendant
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That's how it usually is. Once players figure out a way anything is easily beatable.

knotty latch
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Unfortunately

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Arc was great at the beginning but then its now turned into PVE lobbies or PVP lobbies, PVE lobbies its easy and chill as Arc aren't difficult anymore and PVP is just ignore the AI lol

latent pendant
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I was imagining this crazy idea but I never posted it. Where randomly... some unknown faction sends a bunch of spec ops AI that land at random LZs and hunt down players. So like they pick 5 random LZs, land there as a squad of 4, and hunt down PMCs. They'd have NVGs, great weapons/optics, etc.

Then I realized people will figure out a way to cheese them and it'll just be free gear hehe

knotty latch
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I suspect also that we don't have all systems involved (doesn't help that we still don't know what is coming down the pipeline) that it makes it hard to make real suggestions as we realistically don't know if we make a suggestion and its really popular but then it fixes what is happening now, but later down the road its a mess

latent pendant
knotty latch
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I really hope for this roadmap, it won't have dates but they said it is a list of things they want in the game, maybe that will help focus our suggestions

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Because i can see both for and against your backpack suggestion too

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Or instead of nerfing backpack size, just keep the biggest backpacks rare and not purchasable (i think thats part of the problem, everything can be bought, it literally funnels people to grab loot only)

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Why pick up items that can be bought when you can pick up something that weighs nothing and gives you 10k

latent pendant
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that's exactly my experience with the BeltB this patch

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it's loot only so i always get excited when i find one

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and since it's part of my main loadout i need lots of them

knotty latch
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Yup same here

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Its literally the only thing i get excited about since you cant buy em 😄

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I have a load of them stored 😄

hazy pivot
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Repairing non armour items when

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we got sewing kits

latent pendant
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"wow they just left a perfectly good beltb lying around! yoink!"

knotty latch
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That would be cool

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The issue, and i don't know if this is only because its EA so they want everyone to be able to access everything to test, but there's no rarity to the game play

hazy pivot
# knotty latch That would be cool

They did say that all junk items will have a use in the crafting/hideout in 0.5, I wonder if this is their plan, as I cant think of any reason to have sewing kits in the game

knotty latch
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PVP would also be more organic if you know items you have could be lost and you have to actually go find them again

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But i don't PVP so im only guessing at best

hazy pivot
knotty latch
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But for PVE that would definitely curb the T3 loot spots from being stripped clean and looted all the time if you are forced to go look for items since you can't buy em

latent pendant
knotty latch
latent pendant
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Basically the hatchling problem that tarkov had early on

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We're actually in a pretty good place right now with that. Lots of geared players so the fights are interesting.

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People are actually using NVGs

knotty latch
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Hmmm so its gonna be a huge balancing act since i still believe there needs to be some rarity to items in the game

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But then again that could be the crafting part i guess

latent pendant
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The tac wallet fix was a huge win. We've already killed a few players that had designators on them.

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And if we find one we get the HELL out of there lol

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Butts clenched the whole way

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I almost fell over laughing when my friend said (without sarcasm) "Wait, I think I heard something. Oh it was just the wind"

knotty latch
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Lol i do like those moments even in PVE

vestal goblet
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how about both a space and weight limit for bags? because once you can't run anymore, might as well fill every square of your inventory

latent pendant
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there definitely should be some kinda limit

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or you progressively slow down more and more until you're walking 1 inch per second hehe

dense spire
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Imagine if utility carts were a thing 01_GZW_Kekw

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I dunno why but that just popped up into my head recently and it just seems silly imagining a PMC or squad just pulling one along

frosty fjord
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Servers are way too congested, everything is dead and looted
Translation: "I play PvE and this is what happens when you can't shoot the competition".

mild coral
clear glacier
# mild coral why you crying about pve, like most people on pvp dont go to pve to grind gear/m...

Yes even PvEvP is meant to be PVE focussed and with the added threat of running into players, It was never intended to be a hunt for players they tried to change the focus with the red circles but that brought about a host of problems, the open world persistent nature of the game doesnt really suit a hunt for players/ death match / KOTH based game and I hope MFG have finally realised that, there are plenty of games that cater to this style of game, their original vision was unique in the FPS world and I hope they arent moving away from trying to bring mechanics from other games or trying to lure players with promises of more PVP. I liked PvEvP in 0.1 as it was just going about your PVE game and then shit yourself when you realise someone is close by and then it was a decision, do I exfil to get my task done or do I take the opposing players on. Not having it where you were almost guaranteed to run into a player and that wasnt the focus was a much better fit for the open worl mechanic of the game.

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Looking through this whole thread made me realise that the only way they can satisfy the different wants and needs of players is to have server files available so communities can spin up their own servers, Want AI more plentiful and harder spin up a server with those settings adjusted. Want a KOTH deathmatch server same deal spin up your own server. Want a chilled easy game with potato AI you can spin up a server to suit. I would for sure spin up a server for our discord group as we are all bemoaning the crowded POI's and AI that are too easy.

visual kernel
steady zenith
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Which is a EA problem and not so much and full release problem as of yet.

visual kernel
steady zenith
clear glacier
# visual kernel After tasks, PvP is the only thing left to do in the game. MFG hasn’t yet figure...

true, but most players arent touching PvEvP as it is with red circles, players in general that have focussed on PVE dont want full on PVP they want the more organic style of play. The end game loop in 0.1 was squad up with who ever was keep and then take on Tiger Bay or Midnight Sapphire death was plentiful and so much fun was had, the challenge of doing laps aropund tiger bay was so awesome. I miss the mogadishu hoards of 0.1, even Narith was definately not guaranteed to get in unscathed which is how it should be

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visual kernel
visual kernel
brazen grotto
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Yeah and since so many people want different things it makes it hard to do that. For instance people that want to maximize wealth, passive wealth generation will help them, but may harm other players.
Bigger maps benefit pve but make PvP harder to do.
Realism in gear alienates casual players.

clear glacier
# brazen grotto Yeah and since so many people want different things it makes it hard to do that....

Yep and realistically the only way to cater to everyone is for private servers unfortunately, it seems to be a cycle of people complain, they change the game and alienate another whole group of players, this patch has pretty much stopped most of our core group playing which all have at least 1500(im nudging 3000hours as I am a GZW tragic) hours in the game and have played since 0.1 and this is concerning

brazen grotto
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I've played more this patch and have found more enjoyment from some parts but less from others. I'm more in the hyper realism area of stuff over difficulty or casual play

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So the game is very broad, caters to many different players but each group is specific in what they want. Server splitting would break the social cohesion as well.

lone kettle
clear glacier
# lone kettle Agree 👍 And at the end: > If you try please everyone, you will please no one

Yep I have been a firm supporter of the game since day 1, I have 3 supporter accounts just as a way to support MFG and also to play through each of the factions. I have 2700 hours roughly in game, have tested experimental patches and given feedback, but I think youve hit the nail on the head each patch feels like they are trying to make the game for a section of the community to the detriment of other sections of the community. I cant see how they can cater to everyones taste in a openworld persistent map without having the community take some of that load off them by communities having servers to the taste they like. Not sure how the server files/config work but all server owners would need is ways to adjust

  • AI Numbers
  • AI Difficulty
  • Server population/ Faction availability

With community servers having ring fenced progression it will also suit the guys who want separate Warfare progression as they just spin up a warfare server, advertise it in discord they have their wish

I do agree this may fracture the community but from what I am seeing a significant of long term players have left the game, playing a lot less or are close to leaving. so in a way some major fracturing is happening already. And also on the community side, this patch has probably the worst player cooperation and interaction Ive seen, Base is silent noone talking, if you bump into someone and say hi, 80% of the time you are met with silence as the busily race to get to the nearest loot. Donations box is empty always. Everyone is out to get loot for themselves this patch and thats a big sad. I miss the days of hey im going to TB who wants to come, and either get told "no thanks youre fucking mad" or "hell yeah count us in." and new friends made.

I may be idealistic but this game used to be great for random squad ups and sherpering to help players get tasks done. Now its more like "Fuck you ill have to share the loot" Some great people were met even in 0.3 but this playthrough not so much.

latent pendant
# clear glacier Yep I have been a firm supporter of the game since day 1, I have 3 supporter acc...

I think part of the problem is we're playing an early access game. They might simply be building toward the vision they had for the game originally but people enjoyed the incomplete parts.

For me the perfect example is the detection indicator/meter. To me, that feature feels completely out of place in this game. GZW has always been a game with minimal information and that aspect made the game more enjoyable for me. I like uncertainty, mystery, lack of UI/indicators, etc. It adds so much replay value for me. Without the detection meter, every time I go into Tiger Bay I can test out various detection ranges to see what works against the AI. Then I do it all over again for night time, day time, stormy weather, etc.

But the detection meter might have been something they wanted to add all along. Or it's something that's consistent with their vision.

So naturally when they add things it's going to push against some people in the community. It'll feel like a betrayal because the game didn't have those things - but it's actually just them building toward their vision.

clear glacier
# latent pendant I think part of the problem is we're playing an early access game. They might si...

Yeah I get that and hoping beyond hope that the Looter Shooter is toned back because I dont feel that was ever part of the original vision or they didnt realise the drastic effect it has had on the game. But their original vision was hardcore and "every move matters" but at present it doesnt feel that way at all. In 0.1 they were unapologetic about the difficulty of 0.1 but a section of players complained that they were too hard and they have nerfed the hell out of them. I cant see how that was ever part of the original vision easy AI and tier 3 POI's that are a doddle.

I do have faith that it will go back to the original vision of hardcore, every move matters, and hope the community spirit of 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3 returns as well. I feel like at the moment is a little bit knee jerk.
-0.1 was hard and uncompromising but some players said it was too hard and they have made them easier and easier every patch much to the disappointment of many. AI are always going to cause complaints of too easy and too hard but this is were the idea of private servers spun up by the community can take some of the heat of that of MFG, want it hard go and play on a hardcore community server, find them too hard go and play on a chilled community server. I wouldn't introduce support for community mods yet as that will complicate and slow down development.

  • Was never meant to be a PVP focussed game but some players and especially streamers wanted more PVP hence the red circle lead balloon.
    -last patch people were wanting more loot so they have done that and now players are complaining all that people do is loot.

In a funny way, besides the polish and performance boost(ay be due to reduced AI maybe???) 0.1 and 0.2 felt more like a complete game in the pure gameplay of tasking and fighting hardcore AI

latent pendant
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AI are more of a threat when enemy PMCs are around. When you play in Joint Ops you can sit comfortably in hard cover for just about as long as you like and take your time.

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That's why even the older AI weren't really "difficult" as they were punishing. Players that played very slowly and cautiously had no problems dealing with that AI for the most part.

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I had specific routes for clearing TB/MS/FN that were pretty much a 100% success rate. Once I learned the angles and spawns I can relax and just pop the AIs.

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There's always going to be a tension there because if AI is actually difficult in Joint Operations then it's 5x as hard to deal with in Warfare.

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The patrols IMO are a step in the right direction. They're much more aggressive and will try to hunt you down.

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(the downside is they lowered the AI density to make room for patrols, which is bad)

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As for red circles. IIRC they weren't intended to promote PvP. They were intended to push more players into Warfare because now you can avoid areas with red circles if you want to avoid PvP.

clear glacier
# latent pendant That's why even the older AI weren't really "difficult" as they were punishing. ...

for sure but they were punishing fuck up and your dead, a click of death was that, now its a click of " oh shit hang on dude stay there while I reload, cool ok thanks for waiting now ill shoot you" 0.1 and 0.2 I never felt like a death was unwarranted always was because I fucked up. we used to do laps of tiger bay and did that by working as a team and taking your time, now you can cod the hell out of a Tier 3 with a pistol solo

latent pendant
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Yes I agree they heavily undertuned the AI in 0.4. They went too far.

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You're right about the click of death 🤣

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In the past all of my buddies would freak out if I used my AK selector switch near them.

clear glacier
latent pendant
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I think the issue they were trying to address is imagine a player gets all geared up to do some tasking in Ban Pa. But what they don't know is there's a huge fight going on there. They'd be killed the moment they stepped into the area.

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Red circles are a terrible implementation for a decent idea.

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So anyway you're completely wrong that it was made to promote PvP due to streamers. That's just tin foil hat shit.

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PvP is a core part of the game. They were just adding some features to improve it.

clear glacier
latent pendant
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Just like I think the detection meter thing they just added is bad... I think that's bad too.

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But that goes back to my point about their actual vision for the game.

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Every time they add some new UI element or piece of information there's a group of players that hate it. This time it was me with that detection meter thing.

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Some other guy was complaining recently about the compass markers for teammates at the top.

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Someone else was complaining about blue arm bands.

clear glacier
# latent pendant Just like I think the detection meter thing they just added is bad... I think th...

I agree, I didn't like blue markers either I liked the fact you communicated with teammates. Also I don't like the tutorial either I liked the fact you spawned into the game and people would help you get started or youd figure it out, but going by players not talking in base anymore I guess its needed🤣

Thats why I think youve just got to put your balls on the table make the game you want to make to some extent and ignore some of the noise unless its loud noise from the whole community

latent pendant
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I'd just be careful about blaming the community for these additions. For all we know the red circles were planned for over a year and they just got around to it in 0.3.

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From what I know about game dev (not that much but I have friends in the industry) game devs don't take guidance from the community on what to build most of the time. They usually have their own plans and ideas and community just helps them decide what is more important now.

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So like red circles, blue arm bands, the tutorial, compass markers, detection meter, etc... all of that was already on their internal idea board. Whether or not to build it now was looking at community feedback.

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But yea with AI they totally went overboard with undertuning them for sure.

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I do share your concerns though. This has happened to me with other early access games. I really liked the early version and the devs kept adding stuff I hated for over a year until the game sucked (for me).

clear glacier
latent pendant
spice island
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My buddy will switch modes and I'll freak tf out