#Wipe = Healthy Community

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

vocal bough
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A Wipe in a game like this should happen really happen every 5-6 months. PvP and PvE should not have cross progression and PvE should be able to choose wheather to wipe or not but PvP needs to wipe every 6 months at the absolutely latest. To a PvP player a wipe is literally an event in and of itself and will bring many players back to the game with or without new content. It gives new players a chance to jump in at a time where they have a balanced playing field or even PvE players that get bored on their main character so they jump into a wipe on PvP. It will also bring back players that get burned out with the late wipe feeling/meta. Without this Mechanic the game will never meet it's potential you will never support this game long term on a PvE only mentality you need to hire some people that play PvP seems like the Devs are mostly PvE players. The Wipe is the Single most important thing to this games PvP system. Prestige system or incentive for players to wipe there own game mid wipe would also help improve the Wipe cycle. A massive money sink late wipe could also help some.

mortal prism
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The wipes are timed with major updates because of both technical reasons along with resetting progression because it's our role to test out the new release - including the early game.

And the PvE/PvP linked progression has been discussed so many times that it's not even worth calling out all the ways in which breaking them apart would simply result in the PvP side straight up being a dead wasteland and rotting on the vine.

The "playing field" is inherently level because everyone has the same access to everything as everyone else.

limpid comet
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I think today in the dev stream when asked if we would get more wipes in the future they weren’t certain we would. Someone correct me if I heard wrong. They have the first core gameplay loop where the want it with this update and so they may not feel like they need to wipe as consistently for future updates. Depends on what these other loops and their progression look like. Hideouts maybe don’t need a wipe as long as people can’t stack up on supplies for them preemptively

livid sigil
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I don't see that quite being the case yet.

Could have been one giving a fumbled statement, which happens and is fine

limpid comet
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Please correct me if I heard wrong or misinterpreted it

stark pier
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Wipes are intended during development - after full release, they aren't as sure if that will continue. That's always been the intent though.

Mike is fully correct however - in a game whose community is at the last (and so far, only) official headcount of 10:1 in favour of PvE over PvP, trying to force a step change to an entirely different game type half way through would be catastrophic for the development, and almost certainly be the death knell for it.

wintry dawn
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This is my take with games like GZW: The concept of a wipe is extremely beneficial to the game because it's "the great reset". Everyone starts back from the same baseline again and the race starts again. This keeps the game fresh for me and eases entry for newcomers.

I do however understand the other side that gets annoyed that all their hard work is wiped away when they comeback to the game, especially ones that are not regularly playing the game.

Me personally, I'd enjoy the game less without a wipe every now and then because of the dreadful feeling of being done with tasking and only going against sweaty chads fully kitted. It just gets boring for me quick. So I would compromise and be okay if the wipes were every 9-12 months, that's talking about once the wipes are no longer needed by MFG due to technical reasons.

On the issue of separating PvP and PvE, I completely disagree with this. GZW is the first game that has done this really well to support all kinds of players. You encounter cheaters during tasking? no problem, just switch to PvE. You're having a really stressful day and just want to progress your character in peace away from the PvP stress? same thing. Taking that away hurts more than helps imo.

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Now with regards to PvP, yes I'm disappointed that Marek said it's not the focus of the game currently. But I get where he's coming from. So many systems have yet to be added / reworked, being PMC skills, crafting, health system etc. That's core gameplay and takes priority over PvP. I think once they roll out 0.5, we will see them readdressing PvP zones and other aspects as well to make pvp better

livid sigil
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I'll be honest, can't think of what could be added for JUST PvEvP

neat spear
livid sigil
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We get wipes every 6 months normally anyways, it's just Spearhead was delayed for..9? 10 months? After Winds of War

orchid glade
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You have to remember, this is not a pvp type game.
The idea is not to have all out pvp battles.
It is player vs enemy vs player.

The way was supposed to be played, there is not a lot of reasons you want to kill players.

neat spear
neat spear
livid sigil
neat spear
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This is a very bad situation for new players.

neat spear
livid sigil
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"Once people finish" my brother in Flip-Flops, we can do that day 1.

The issue with the aimless nature of people after clearing TI is we don't have a postgame yet, and we likely wont until Ground Zero gets added in 1.0.

neat spear
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The purpose of a wipe is to keep the player constantly active. Wipes are used to prevent the player from becoming passive. This ensures the player remains active at all times.

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My friends from levels 1-17 want to play PVP but are forced to play PVE. To solve this, we need an anti-pause for those who finish quickly. That would mean wiping at shorter intervals. At least for now.

mortal prism
# neat spear This is a very bad situation for new players.

I don't think this is a real issue though - in that if you're a new player joining PvP "late wipe" then it doesn't matter if they're facing people moving over from PvE or if they're just longtime PvP players. They're going to be out-classed and out-gunned.

Which is why it's SO MUCH BETTER for them to be able to cut their teeth and gear up on PvE, get their feet under them and then get into PvP once they have a strong sense of the game.

Perfect way to not let "new players" get blown out of the water.

livid sigil
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If you wipe because people who no-life a game have had nothing to do for two weeks you get more casual players to quit.

As much as I love to run experiments and gun build in Lamang, I lead Raid teams in Final Fantasy, have a job I enjoy cuz it's a ma and pa shop, and whatever else my friends want to play, shockingly, I get a loooooong time of being able to play GZW with plenty to do.

To quote FF14's Executive Producer: "It's okay to play something else if you feel like the game doesn't have what you want right now, just keep an eye every once in a while and come back when you see what you like."

neat spear
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I've been playing Tarkov for a long time, and frequent wipes really keep me engaged. What I mean is, a new player gets hit instantly with a DDM4 right from the start. It's not a CQA1 or an M4, it's a DDM4 with 1-6x scopes. The balance is really disrupted. In this situation, the player goes into PVE, finishes the town, then goes back into PVP, only to encounter level-4 players with gear everywhere.

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Honestly, this doesn't affect me, but it does affect a lot of people. I already love and play this game, and I don't worry about dying; I switch to PvE and just chill out instead of fighting. But for aggressive players, this creates a huge imbalance. One is CQA1, the other is SIG MCX. The difference is that one is doing quests, the other is hunting. Aggressive players don't want to avoid dying in PvP; they want to fight against equally matched opponents.

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This is what I wanted to explain.

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My English isn't very good, so I sometimes use translation tools. Please excuse the inconvenience.

stark pier
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No offense intended, but you're getting hung up a fair bit here - higher levels just means more access to better gear, but better gear doesn't necessarily translate to a better player.

Many, many times players will take high end, expensive loadouts into the field and lose the lot to a guy with an beat up SKS with SP ammo from the starter town because that player was simply more skilled.

That's the beauty of GZW - it's never about the gear, or level, or vendor access. It's about the environment, the tactics, and how you play relative to other players.

orchid glade
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Very much what steel said.

Within one day of a wipe, you can be fully gear and kitted from just the AI alone, and still get one tapped by someone with a 70 percent AK because they get the drop on you.

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Wipe time is irrelevant. Gear in this game, does not make you better. Bullets still kill

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That said, they give players the change to wipe whenever they want. I usually wipe a few times during the cycle

mortal prism
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And since a lot of the highest tier gear is loot-only, a lot of people that PvP don't even roll with it - further lowering the gear cap.

supple patio
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Make a wipe like Arc Raider for player to collect rebirth is better than forcing wipe

brazen agate
supple patio
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Tarkov wipe also not a great example game design and only reason why GZW wipe is working now. Because they ‘really’ adding new task and new overhaul stuff each update. While Tarkov keeps the same task in which bad in design ,mind you. Their base design already sweaty and their task is so complicated, you rather off doing something else. While Grayzone they add a new revamped task, location (Tarkov did but they mostly add map, in which people have to learn through their party system hence more work), guns (Tarkov did better with gun btw) and also content overall

maiden bobcat
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You can wipe your character if you want but no global wipes please!

steel dirge
orchid glade
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As long as they are still developing and tuning the tasks as much as they are, they have to wipe us.

graceful quarry
vocal bough
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PvP and PvE must be separated. Some guy commented PvP would be a wasteland. This game had 800 player concurrent times before the update hype. It is a wasteland because of bad policy like cross progression. Then to the guy that thinks you can be geared and kitted on day one of the wipe “from AI Alone” what are you smoking I need it. AI gear is absolutely trash you’re the guy i smoke in PvP everytime.

orchid glade
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AI gear is bad ass.
Just because you can't use it, does not mean it is not great.
SP ammo is pretty much one of the best ammo's in the game.
That comes mainly from the starter towns

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If you are relying on shooting thru plates, and you need A1, you are aiming in the wrong spots

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The will never be seperated.
This is not supposed to be a PVP game.
It is PvEvP, player killing interactions are secondary to killing AI

vocal bough
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I just lost 50 IQ reading this. Enjoy 1500 players concurrent 90% of the year.

supple patio
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Okay, so just to be clear. We are debating for a sake of arguing?

open root
neat spear
stark pier
# supple patio Okay, so just to be clear. We are debating for a sake of arguing?

Looks like the OP arguing for the sake of it at this point, especially as his desired game loop doesn't coincide with the majority of the player base.

The game has always been a PvE/PvEvP game, and the principle of allowing players to dip into the PvEvP aspect is what has kept that game mode alive, especially when the head count is massively in favour of the PvE game mode. It makes no sense to split them, as gear regardless of source is the same gear, whatever game mode it was obtained in.

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As for his comment about "enjoying 1500 players 90% of the year", given that massive split of 10:1, that means if the game suddenly pivoted, you'd loose way, way more players than you'd ever gain.

supple patio
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Arc raider doesn't has a force wipe why it's so thriving? Is it really wipe that make a healthy community or the game itself?

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ABI also has no wipe

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Why it's so thriving?