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1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

modest kayak
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i think anything that makes it easy to keep me playing would be beneficial to both of us.

dark zealot
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While I understand the point, that would basically make wiping sort of irrelavent if you can chose to keep certain gear.

modest kayak
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not really because i wipe so i can replay all the missions

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its like a new game plus for those that earnt it

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oh only in pve btw

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i dont play pvp

dark zealot
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I understand, but if it's a new game then it should be a new game. Not a new game with the gear you wanted to keep.

modest kayak
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well i do it already so....

dark zealot
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It's a no from me.

modest kayak
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why tho

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you havent properly explained

dark zealot
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I believe I did.

bronze arch
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they hinted at something coming in .4 involving replaying

modest kayak
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you just dont like the idea but you havent said why

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saying it makes wiping is irrelevant isnt really valid becuase you havent explained why

covert surge
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Negates the purpose of a wipe on my opinion. My opinion is no gear should be kept of you choose to wipe. The point of a wipe is to start over.

bronze arch
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also what farmer said

modest kayak
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to me all my wipes are relevant and more fun if i can play with all the gear i earned

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so ig we have to agree to disagree

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absolutely shouldnt be possible in pvp tho

dark zealot
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PvP and PvE are interlocked.

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How would that even work.

bronze arch
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I'm not sure how locking it one would stop it in the other

dark zealot
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You'd have to split progression.

bronze arch
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unless you are just completely locked out of pvp entirely upon wiping

modest kayak
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well ig if its not possible then its moot

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i mean i do it already and im not hurting anyone and it keeps me coming back for more

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in fact i love opening doors for people if they need them opened

dark zealot
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I'd say to that you're not hurting yourself obviously, but you are making it easier on yourself to complete the tasking starting with endgame gear.

modest kayak
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yeah and thats what keeps me coming back

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this is my chill game

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i have 1000 hours in it

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also

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i only take the keys and silenced glocks and ammo cuz thats all i go in to missions with

dark zealot
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I understand, but asking for an entirely new "wipe" alternative allowing you to keep basically whatever you want because it poses a minor inconvinence in finding people to hold it for you is a bit of a stretch.

modest kayak
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i mean it was more a suggestion than a demand

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to see if theres interest

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which so far there isnt

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and thats cool

dark zealot
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I didn't refer to it as a demand at all.

modest kayak
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ill just keep doing what im doing

modest kayak
dark zealot
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I apologize for making you feel that way.

modest kayak
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no worries. youre good. thank you

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it felt like a great idea at the time 😅

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because anything to keep players engaged and having fun is ultimately what its all about and wiping with my gear is what keeps me coming back

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but i can see i might be in the minority

dark zealot
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If you ever need someone to do this, I'll be happy to swap the gear for you.

modest kayak
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youre the best thank you! i may take you up on that. im due for a wipe

dark zealot
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🫡

modest kayak
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oh i forgot. i also take my money with me 😊 so im happy to pay. im on my 2nd wipe and i have over 2 million 😅

obsidian snow
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This is basically the "new game +" conversation.

And your point of wanting stuff to do makes sense, but what we need is really just More Stuff, which they're working on.

Getting to the point of having daily and weekly tasks will help. Suggestions like having Vulture hand of "get me X of this gear" tasks would help too.

I would much rather see that line of development than "wipe + keep gear".

modest kayak
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i see your point but im bored out of my mind if i dont have missions

dark zealot
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Switch to PvP, saved me from boredom.

covert surge
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Consider being a Sherpa, and guiding others on theirs

obsidian snow
modest kayak
modest kayak
modest kayak
dark zealot
modest kayak
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i really love fighting against the ai and going into missions without anything but a glock

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and some nades

dark zealot
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Make missions up, sometimes when I play PvE I'll literally make up an entire mission. Carry a DLSR in case you have to take pictures of a massacre. Act like you crash landed in the hot air balloon. Use your imagination.

modest kayak
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haha i envy you having that kind of imagination. i like to have an objective with a reward

dark zealot
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I tried.

modest kayak
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i appreciate it

spark goblet
dark zealot
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Keep yourself engaged.

modest kayak
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it seems like this game could have infinite missions because they arent complicated. mostly go here and pick this up or kill this many. idk the logistics of setting that up tho

spark goblet
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For sure, I would love to see some of those turned into actual missions though. Solo play would really be improved with something like Skyrim-like radiant Tasks, that just generate based on your level or vendor level and gear.

dark zealot
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In the future they eventually plan on adding daily/weekly missions, but that's awhile away. We're only in .3.

modest kayak
covert surge
modest kayak
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yea thats fair

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and thats why i wipe with gear

patent cedar
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Thing is that wiping removes issues that might be caused by issues to changed items and gear, keys and others - imagine if you will being able to keep your keys and the chaos in the loot economy that would result.

Wipes also allow for a reset of the analytics and to collect meaningful data for the next major update on how players interact with missions and gear - if you have a wipe with kept gear, all the data for balancing that gear (both how players use it, what they use and what is performing or not) is immediately skewed and therefore useless.

modest kayak
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none of what youve said is happening now

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but i can wipe with gear

patent cedar
# modest kayak im confused. why would keeping keys cause chaos in the loot economy? i mean tha...

For example, if you keep your key container full of keys (or even just one), you can, from day 1, second 1, get access to endgame gear with relative ease.

Any key to an easy access end tier loot location would result in players quickly saturating the game with top tier gear, either for sale or use, and farmed constantly.

This would again skew analytics - if you suddenly had an explosion of players carrying Phantoms and Plate6 within 1 hour or less, it renders virtually all data on what is being used pointless.

modest kayak
patent cedar
modest kayak
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but its not

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i wipe with gear now

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all the time

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and anyone can

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i do it becuase i find the game is more fun

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and less of a chore

patent cedar
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You can't wipe with gear now. If you are, that's an exploit.

If you're talking about the "hey here's your gear, welcome" messages, that's not "wipe with gear".

That's a reward for paying more upfront, and totally subject to change as the game evolved.

modest kayak
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you give your gear to a friend. you wipe, you go back to friend and get your gear. its not hard

spark goblet
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There is a difference between you wiping your character at the menu screen and MFG dropping a major update and resetting all characters. And while I would stop short of calling dropping your gear to a friend and then self wiping your character an exploit, I don't think it is intended gameplay, and might be skewing data MFG are collecting on new characters.

modest kayak
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yea we established that some people are not ok with adding a wipe with gear function earlier and im fine with that. i just didnt understand any of the points steel talons was making. i still dont.

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because if any of it was the case it would be happening now

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and if it is happening now, i dont see it ruining the game for anyone

spark goblet
modest kayak
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i just put a suggestion out there based on my wants and needs and im fine if its not popular cuz i can still do what i do

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and enjoy the game my way

modest kayak
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i've wiped countless times every update

spark goblet
modest kayak
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but i would simply stop playing

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becuase it wouldnt be fun

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so should i stop playing

spark goblet
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They may believe that some gear is far to easy to acquire.

modest kayak
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what changesd could they make that would change how i play

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they cant stop someone dropping gear to give to someone. its a major mechanic

spark goblet
patent cedar
# modest kayak because if any of it was the case it would be happening now

By dropping your gear, as DeathMole said, it's not technically an exploit, but it is against the spirit of a wipe - you're giving yourself an immediate advantage against both players and AI as soon as you return, whatever mode you play in.

As far as analytics are concerned, this does still skew the data - you as an individual player won't have any much weight by yourself, but if thousands of other people do the same, that fundamentally alters what is gathered and useful.

Think about it - low tier game, you are limited to CQA1 and SP ammo. You suddenly have a horde of players with 20" M4's and full sets of attachments rocking M885A1, then the question becomes - "is the M4 overpeforming early game, and should it be nerfed and parts harder to obtain?"

A direct result of that would be ammo, attachments, and parts likely being placed at a much higher tier of loot and rarity than say an AK.

Same goes for any gear or item, really.

modest kayak
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i mean do you need data to determine that? generally when they've finished the missions and dont have anything else to do. looting runs can only provide so much entertainment. in my case very little

spark goblet
modest kayak
modest kayak
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this is one of my favourite ever games it is because i can play it my way

spark goblet
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Data, hands down. They have stated they still have at least 2 more years in the development cycle before they finish the game.

modest kayak
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thats ridiculous

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theres no data without players

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and the data that i "skew" is not gonna put them out of business but if players don't play. it will

spark goblet
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But data that isn't giving a good representation of what players are doing with a fresh character isn't worth it.

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They won't go out of business for awhile. The sales of the game plus the supporter edition will float them for a few years at least.

modest kayak
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i feel like we're on completely different planets and im ok with that. i will play my way becuase it makes me happy and i wish you all the best in playing your way.

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sincerely

modest kayak
rocky dirge
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Character wipe and "New game Plus" are two completly different things

modest kayak
rocky dirge
patent cedar
# modest kayak do you think MFG are more worried about data or people playing their game?

It's data, without question.

Without data, they can't balance, they can't make informed choices nor can they make any decisions about what to add or not in any given patch.

Without accurate data about what the player base does and doesn't use, when they get it and how, the game will just be an open world shooter with no real objective.

Case in point - the MP5 was a direct result of the player base not using it when it was unlocked due to underwhelming performance for when it was unlocked. This wipe, they brought it down to T1 Gunny as a result of that data and player feedback. Now I'm sure we're seeing more players using them in early to mid tiers.

modest kayak
modest kayak
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and youll never convince me that player data is more important than player numbers

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one cannot exist without the other

patent cedar
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It's a cyclical iterative system - you're right in that you can't have data without players, but if you don't get accurate data, you'll drive players away also as the refinements you make no longer can be calibrated correctly.

A good way to think of it is like the diagram here - we would be in the evaluation phase of the current hotfix, and they are already reviewing the data they recieve to build the next one.

image.png
modest kayak
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and by playtesting

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which we are all doing now

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sure the data helps but a good game with many players is paramount

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which has been my point from the beginning

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im not disputing that data isnt important, just thats its more important than players

patent cedar
# modest kayak not having accurate data doesnt drive players away. making a shitty game drives...

Sorry you feel that way, but that is how software dev works.

You build, you test, you make it live, you review, you plan for the next phase... on and on and on till the end of the project.

If all you have is a bunch of players providing shit data, then... well, you get a shit game. Those players then leave... and you have a dead game.

Ultimately, having the good game is the end result of having good data from the players. You can't make informed decisions otherwise.

modest kayak
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if your intention is to make me feel bad for playing the game the way i want to play it then its not working. i've never had more fun in a game and that to me is worth more to MFG than all the data in the world.

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and if MFG stopped letting players pick up their gear after a wipe, i wouldnt play it after the first run through because it would be a tedious chore and games are supposed to be fun

patent cedar
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Not trying to make you feel bad - what I am trying to do is explain why not wiping gear is a bad idea for new char runs, especially at the beginning of a major update, and why this data is key.

Something an old programming teacher of mine lived by was the principle of "GIGO" - Garbage In, Garbage Out. If all you feed into a system is junk, all you'll get out the other end is junk. I've seen projects be set back months or years due to junk data, or companies go bust because of it. Not saying that will happen here, but by making it a widespread thing, you can pretty much guarantee that's what will happen.

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Anyway, I've said my piece, and will now bow out of this thread.

modest kayak
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yeah i think i might close this now

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i thought it was a good idea at the time but ill keep doing what im doing and hoping they dont stop letting me

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i appreciate your opinion. i just dont share it. but im coming from a purely creative place and from the postion of a gamer who loves a game. you seem to be coming from the position of a developer i guess. i dont think we'll ever see eye to eye

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all the best