0.3 AI Discussion

[compact igloo]

Hello, this is a continuation of the previous AI discussion thread found here https://discord.com/channels/1166365362158313522/1243936228840308889.

This is my brief analysis of the state of the AI as I see it in 0.3.2. By no means is this the end of the subject, since AI development is an iterative process.

So, to preface this, these are my opinions. I do not play in Warfare mode in general, so these opinions may not translate as well when playing in that mode, though overall the AI are the same. However, I do have a little more than 700 hours in game, so I think that I may have some worthwhile opinions to share.

So to start, things that do not feel so great.

1. AI will turn to look in the direction they “heard” a shot come from. Even if this means they are looking dead ass at a wall. Inside of buildings this quickly becomes absurd. Ideally this will be changed to looking in the apparent direction instead of true direction.

2. AI do not cut corners coming out of doors very well, or at all. In some cases AI will stand next to a door that is opened but look straight at the wall next to it. This can be seen at Ft. N Armory Bunker at the inner door. AI tend to stand to the right of the door as you open it.

3. Occasionally some AI are incredibly quiet and unmoving, which is disjointing when 90% of them are yelling their heads off and sprinting everywhere. I’m not sure I like the feature that make the AI so loud, but if it is going to be in the game, either make it 100% of them, or 50%-50%,or other ratio to reflect veterans and new or green recruits.

Continued below.

4. AI animations when shot seem to be occasionally bugged, specifically the staggered animation. It feels when the AI is staggered they are then sometimes immune to being shot. It is possible I am just bad at aiming, but something feels off about it. I have heard reports of the AI being able to fire their weapon while in this animation. I do not believe I have encountered this, but if it is accurate, would be great to have it fixed.

5. AI don’t seem to carry much, or at least the standard AI don’t. I would love to see them carry more items such as consumable medical items, ammo and magazines, or even just some low tier valuables. I would love if they had items like this in their backpack if they carry one as well. I don’t think I’ve see more than one bot with something in a backpack this wipe, if even that.

6. AI spawns sometimes, occasionally, feel really bad. Turning around and seeing an AI right behind you with the muzzle to your head doesn’t feel good ever. I’m sure sometimes, perhaps even most times, it is an AI I missed somehow. But often enough the only way the AI could have gotten there is if it spawned in behind you. I would like to have a system forcing AI to spawn out of view of our character and patrol to their position assigned them.

7. AI accuracy seems inconsistent. It feels like they shoot more, but miss most shots. The shots that do land feel like they miss armor entirely and slip under my arms and through the sides of my armor more frequently. Obviously there is a bias here that I forget about shots that I survive, but it does still feel odd. This requires more testing.

8. The AI will "bull rush" the player character causing them to become barrel stuffed, while the AI will not be. I know this was a fix previously to prevent players from doing the same to the AI, but it should be looked at again.
   .

Things that do feel good.

1. They (the AI) “communicate” between themselves. Even if it is just yelling random lines that don’t make much sense tactically, it does help make them feel alive.

2. AI “One Taps” seem to have dissapeared more or less. I still die to seemingly single shots occasionally (it feels like aimed, semi-auto fire), but I do not feel like the AI are turning 180 degrees and shooting instantly i.e. 0.1 “Terminators”.

3. AI foot step detection seems to have been adjusted. Slow walking or “stealth” lets you move around the AI much better without being detected.

4. AI react to being shot and will attempt to hide behind hard cover if they are wounded. Shooting at AI will leave them temporarily suppressed, though the effect seems less applicable to them than it does to the player character. The addition of intestines made the AI seem much less of a “bullet sponge”.

5. The AI now push fairly aggressively instead of waiting for the player to walk around corners. Often this does not work out well for them but if there are multiple simple paths, the player can get pushed from two or three different directions at the same time. It’s great. I would love more work (and I expect that MFG is working) in this area. More complex flanks and grenade use would be amazing to see from the AI.

Some things I would like to see.

1. Consumable use by AI, i.e. grenades, medical equipment.

2. More and varied carried gear, backpacks that have a use, realistic amounts of ammo, magazines that don’t magically fill when used.

3. Dynamic spawns out of visual range, patrols that react to nearby engagements.

4. More organs and skeletal structure modeled. The addition of a spine and brain stem would be great.

5. Differing levels of AI difficulty in POI’s. Possibly levels 1-10. So the starting town AI would be from 1-3, mid tier could be 4-7, and end tier could be 8-10. This could possibly already be implemented, but not visible to players. This system need not be visible to players other than visually recognizing the quality of AI weapons and gear.

6. AI working together intentionally. Low tier AI covering each other with fire. Mid tier AI calling reinforcement. Mil AI officers coordinating movement and fire effectively.

7. AI idle animations to ease identification, instead of lightening their color pallet increase the amount of hand waving or body movement they have. It will increase the ease of identifying enemies while preserving their ability to hide while engaged. People rarely stand still while staying in place, either to swipe away flies or shift weight from foot to foot.

Any additional observations are welcome, and if I feel are especially different from what I’ve already posted, can be added.

Reserved for additions

Reserved for additions

[viscid dove]

8. Being bull rushed by the AI does not feel good: https://discord.com/channels/1166365362158313522/1384962247947714642

[jolly solar]

I have noticed that AI sometimes flicks and one taps you within a few frames. I have no idea how to replicate it, so I don't think there's a specific trigger such as looking at them long enough though that may enhance the possibility.

also it would be great for AI to have realistic communication, and tactics like suppressing fire or pieing doors.

an AI experience system would be cool to have. where AI could either become more experienced the longer they're alive so they would have better gear and instincts and would coordinate better (the hard option) or there would be a chance of veteran AI spawning. They would have the same bonuses as the other option.
Also with a system like this there could be Veteran AI squads roaming around with stolen PMC gear though they'd be rare

[crimson cave]

Man, the AI ​​in this game is really annoying. I know we're still in early access, but you can't play it if you don't have a scope. Close combat is terrible. Often, if you land a headshot, the bot will just put its hand up as if it were thinking about its life, and it will turn around and kill you. And I haven't even mentioned their ability to see you from more than 100m away. You're walking in the middle of the forest and you hear gunshots, you don't even know where they're coming from, but it's a bot with x-ray vision and superman's hearing seeing you and shooting, to hit, with an AK from more than 100m away, no comment.
Also, taking 180 bullets is the same as nothing. You have to go with a backpack full of ammo to be able to do 2/3 missions. I'm speaking as a player who just started, so the initial missions and equipment are terrible just because of how bad bots are

[viscid dove]

You being a new player, you are having the same experience as a lot of players. The AI is very dangerous in GZW, but once you understand that, they're easily defeatable. Many players have completed all tasks with no issue. You just have to learn what ammunition to use and you probably have to slow down significantly.

[crimson cave]

I don't think the AI ​​is dangerous, it's just bad. They have no tactics, they don't use grenades, they barely seek cover, but they shoot with absurd accuracy and can see you through everything.

If you kill a bot, the whole map will be alerted, that doesn't help either. Ok, the sound of the shot will alert them, but knowing exactly where it came from, that doesn't exist.

[viscid dove]

you can't play it if you don't have a scope
That's not true. You can learn to use irons or dots quite effectively.

Close combat is terrible.
This is subjective. Being a new player, I'd suggest asking yourself why it feels terrible and see if maybe there's a better way you could go about encounters to change that. CQB is quite doable in the current state.

Often, if you land a headshot, the bot will just put its hand up as if it were thinking about its life, and it will turn around and kill you.

1. The reason you get this animation with a headshot is because you didn't hit the brain or had a glancing shot that only grazed the AI. 2. The animation is roughly 1.5-2 seconds long. Plenty of time to line up a second shot.

And I haven't even mentioned their ability to see you from more than 100m away.
This is generally only true if you're sprinting. The AI don't just see, they also hear. If you're sprinting through the jungle, breaking twigs and pushing through brush, you're going to make a lot of noise.

it's a bot with x-ray vision and superman's hearing seeing you and shooting, to hit, with an AK from more than 100m away, no comment.
Bots with xray vision isn't a thing. You're misinterpreting how they know where you are.

[viscid dove]

This is completely false

I would suggest finding a fellow Mithras player to help show you the ropes. The AI is easy once you figure out how to deal with them.

You're right that they don't use grenades. They also don't get suppressed very easily when under fire. But those are things that will come with time. The AI accuracy, AI detection, etc that you've mentioned so far are part of the intense difficulty the game was designed to have and it 100% can be played around.

[crimson cave]

I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not saying that I can't do the missions or that I can't use iron sights, even playing alone I can do the missions and progress without many problems, I have experience with hard core games. If I'm talking about AI it's because I'm seeing it happen, it's my observation, you may or may not agree, but it's something that I'm experiencing and I believe others are too

[viscid dove]

Experience with other games doesn't sometimes translate 1:1 with Grayzone. The AI in this game are intended to act exactly as players would. If a Player can see you at that distance, the AI should be able to as well. If a player can hear you, so can the AI. You're meant to be on an equal footing with the AI.

[distant current]

So I wanna chime in with a recent experience. I popped a bot at the red circle, at night. Immediately I got a return shot from the bot at the blue circle. There is 0 way he knew exactly where I was, but he managed to tag me in the arm with a Mosin at night through trees. I shot at such an angle that might bullet likely passed through red bot and near blue bot, which was all it took.

While bots are remarkably better than launch, there is still some wonkinesss.

[viscid dove]

That tends to happen when they have longer reaching rifles. They'll be more "accurate" and it tends to be whether or not they have an optic. They'll be as accurate with a Mosin with Irons as they are with a Mosin with an optic. And that's obviously not intended.

But the claim that all AI have "x-ray vision" et al is just obsurd at this point. The AI hasn't been that cracked since early on in 0.2

[distant current]

Actually I guess it would have been a shotgun in the starter village

[viscid dove]

You can have Mosins in the starter town too

[distant current]

But it doesn't matter. It was dark, he tagged me in the arm through trees. There's no way he could ahve known right where I was

I was firing a suppressed AK

So no, they don't all have xray vision but sometimes they are fucky in known where you are after you shoot.

[viscid dove]

Even suppressed, guns are loud and will fire in your suspected direction. Sometimes they get lucky

It's a great idea to move immediately after you shoot unless you're 100% sure the AI you shot is the only one in the area. Even if it's only 10-15m. Changing your location slowly is going to ensure any remaining AI don't know your exact location.

[distant current]

I'm aware how loud a suppressed gun is. However, a suppressor will make it much harder to pinpoint where a shot came from

[viscid dove]

Beyond 200m, sure but at or within 100m, it's pretty clear

[distant current]

Returning a single, accurate shot at night from 100m is not realistic.

He didn't fire a bunch, he immediately snapped to me and pinged me

[viscid dove]

Like I said, they get lucky sometimes. This doesn't happen all the time.

[distant current]

I've seen it happen enough to say something is still a litle wonky with their ability to accurately return fire at night from a distance

They aren't the 0.1 terminators

they still need work

[viscid dove]

So you circled the two bot locations here but didn't circle your own. Where were you in this context?

[distant current]

Yellow dot

[viscid dove]

So you were out in the open. How positive are you that the bot at the blue dot was in that location when he shot you? I'm assuming that's where he was when you eventually found him.

[distant current]

Because that's where he always spawns and hangs out

on the little dock in the lake

[viscid dove]

How did you deduce that the blue dot AI was the one that shot you?

[distant current]

Because there are no other bots in that area

[viscid dove]

There are plenty at the lumberyard

[distant current]

My dude, I have 500 hours, I spend a lot of time in the starter town helping people. I know where they spawn, I know where I got shot from

You don't need to defend this hard. Lot of folks experiencing the same thing

Lumber yard has a hill between it and my position

so unless they're doing volley fire, no

[viscid dove]

There's a truck right there and I've seen as many as 3 AI right there.

[distant current]

Okay, even if it's them they returned a single, accurate shot at night in the dark through trees against a single suppressed shot

Whatevs, this convo ain't going anywhere

GL

[viscid dove]

That's within 50 meters. At that range, the odds of a lucky buckshot round increase pretty significantly.

You didn't die, you just got tagged

I'm not arguing that AI don't have issues. I even added a post of my own above. But they're not as OP that some are making them seem either.

A list of my issues with the AI are pretty similar to @compact igloo :

1 - AI not taking raytrace collisions into account when "searching" for PMCs and looking at walls instead of making their way around the obstacle

2 - AI don't slice the pie when going around corners and are easy to funnel into an area and then blindside

3 - AI guards simply stand still waiting to be shot instead of patrolling

4 - Hurt animations sometimes prevent follow-up hit registration

5 - Backpacks with no items. AI are not even worth looting a lot of the time having very little in the way of First Aid, Provisions, HVL

6 - Spawning directly behind players

7 - I don't know that I agree with this one. I like that AI can shoot around plates

8 - AI bull rush players with no ability for them to Melee the player and the player ends up barrel stuffed and can't shoot them.

[compact igloo]

If you think suppressors make a gun quiet, you fundamentally do not understand how suppressors work.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pEXkTEtIU6w

[compact igloo]

I'll add the barrel stuffing to the list.

[distant current]

My brother in christ I own something like a half-dozen suppressors at this point

I am aware of how they work. They make it much harder to pinpoint where a shot came from

[viscid dove]

Not at 50 meters LOL

When you're standing in the middle of a road

[distant current]

LOl. Yeah. totally normal for a sandal-wearing local milita to return accurate counter fire at night through trees at 50m with a single shot

fuck it

I'm done with this stupid argument

[serene estuary]

Ai needs a comastate
Its frustrating that the ai can take so much punishment before dying

[icy pollen]

Not sure what you need this for, wouldn’t necessarily solve your issue if the shots aren’t counting as hits, but I want this or a downed state that would force us to make sure they are dead and don’t get back up again to shoot us

They would still fall over as if dead is what I mean

[compact igloo]

It would be somewhat annoying to have to go and body check an AI that fell behind cover because you dont know if he is in a coma or not.

Also not to mention that it would turn the game into a war crime simulator.

[thick cedar]

Regarding your one shot experience, here is mine xD

[primal orchid]

AI that fall into Coma just die bro

AI aren't surviving any hits that you wouldn't

You can tell because normally blood loss would put us in a Coma, but for AI it just kills them. Also lung or liver being destroyed is lethal for them but its just a coma for us

[compact igloo]

Very nice

[compact igloo]

If our lungs or liver are destroyed it will kill us, organs other than brain or heart just have a higher damage capacity.

[primal orchid]

Incorrect, destroyed lungs or liver is Coma

[compact igloo]

Brother, destroyed means gone. If I destroy your lungs you are gonna be dead.

[primal orchid]

Didn't realize real life had a "Yellow, Orange, Red" classification and if it hits Red you die instantly

[compact igloo]

They have damage thresholds that will put you in a comma, but if it is destroyed and non-functioning you will be dead.

[primal orchid]

You are confusing In Game and Real Life

[compact igloo]

No, I'm pretty sure if I destroyed your lungs irl you would be dead irl.

[primal orchid]

Yeah no shit, in game is different

[compact igloo]

No, it is not.

[primal orchid]

have you never gotten a Coma or something?

[compact igloo]

Plenty of times.

Most common is blood loss, followed by hitting the damage threshold on one or more organs.

[primal orchid]

Next time you get hit by a bullet and go coma, I want you to take a good long look at which organ was damaged

And I want you to see how much it was damaged

[silent raven]

I just want more firefights, and less solo-patrolling AI. It would be nice if combat could be broken into "engagements" rather than "pick-offs".

[misty charm]

why would the AI at night without night vision be able to get a direct precision hit on me? unless there were dozens of them shooting at me.

[icy pollen]

Does this help you?

#1388155135041212528 message

The link is to a specific comment in the post

[compact igloo]

Well for one, the majority of places the ai are, aren't that dark actually. Yes, YBL is a place, but so are TB central and MNS hotel.

And two, if the player has the capability to, the AI should have the capacity as well, if not as well as a player can.

[flat violet]

If the AI in this game are intended to act exactly like a player is then I feel insulted because the AI are dumb as hell

[compact igloo]

And as myself and many others have pointed out, they are getting better, each patch they are iterated on and improved.

They probably won't magically get to the point you couldn't tell next patch but I expect they will get better.

[trail hound]

Coding AI must be hard as fuck to get to being indistinguishable between AI and a Player, they are definately getting better and going in the right direction, days of funneling 50 AI into a yard at TB are gone, although they seem to be doing it at MS now if you get into the office corridor but at least they try and push from multiple directions. They are getting better and I feel like with each patch they are using more tactics, I like the crouching down silent behind a corner when they know you are there and I have seen the odd one peek a corner I am sure. AI is always going to result in "AI are Aimbots" and "AI are potatoes" at the same time so I dont envy the devs, I think they are going in the right direction so 🫡 to the devs

[flat violet]

AI in 0.3 feel closer to 0.1 than in 0.2. They certainly neutered the AI significantly after the backlash in 0.1. Sometimes I feel like the AI hasn't actually gotten much better the playerbase has just collectively improved at the game and aren't getting tapped anymore. That being said I think the AI still just aren't aggressive enough. As for MS the reason the AI all funnel into one corridor is because they pretty much have only one way to get to you in office corridor, i don't think AI have the capacity to go in through office corridor entrance yet.

[compact igloo]

I have to disagree, the ai are pushing from multiple directions and crouching instead of just standing now. Perhaps players are getting better, but the AI are getting better too.

[trail hound]

My Experience with AI

• 0.1 were pretty predictable the pure volume of AI made them challenging, TB hoards were fun though!!!. Fort Narith held no fear, you could comfortably rinse the place solo. To me they never had xray vision through bushes(have video proof to back this up). FOr a first iteration I didnt find them to bad
• 0.2 in the beginning Just approaching Narith was inviting a single headshot back to base, you could peek the hill at the back gate snipe and kill an AI and be instantly head tapped in return, after they increased AI reaction time in 0.2.1?? they became more playable but maybe were nerfed a touch too much.
• 0.3 So far pretty good, patrolling solo guards could do with some glasses at times, but I do like the Flanking, crouching, hiding around corners waiting for you to push, splitting up, quietly trying to find you when injured etc.

Things are definately on the right track but there are things to take into consideration

• Some people will always find them too hard
• Some people will find them too easy
  -Some people will find them just right

For the games long term sustainability they need to find the goldilocks zone for the majority of players, the middle of the bell curve need to be happy.

[trail hound]

In MS they come from the foyer, and also out the foyer door around the courtyard and through the other entrance, opening doors at will(I like this addition which hasnt been talked about much) the days of closing a door and feeling safe are no more and this is good. Sometimes if you clear the courtyard really well most will push through the foyer door but have had plenty of sqeaky bum moments being pushed from both doors in there

[pearl adder]

Fort N. AI shouldn't be allowed to shoot you from around 250m away while stealth crouch walking BEHIND bushes(not moving the bush or making noise for the bush)/or even crouching still behind dense bushes and land a perfect headshot; yes shoot at you I could understand if they saw the bush move slightly when clipping the bush by accident, but a perfect headshot is insane. Sorry not sorry if someone wants to argue with feedback players have made. 😸

[ornate anvil]

👍
personally I don't find them easy, but I think it's easy to Know how to outplay them, which makes it easy ...🤣 but if I fail or If I'm too lazy to be careful and outplay them they can become quite strong And I really like that. Their level depends on mine, I think it's very fair and it has to stay that way

[trail hound]

Can’t say I’ve ever seen this even after 1500+ hours what I have seen is them firing at the last bush they saw you in even if you aren’t in that bush anymore. Even in 0.1 I was crouching in a bush healing a mate while ai came searching for me he basically walked into the bush I was hiding in and ended up teabagging me before he raised his weapon…I have video of this it’s pretty funny I’ve had that happen 2 maybe 3 times. Actually I take some of this statement back early I. 0.2 they would insta return fire and one tap you in the head from 200 odd meters. But that was in the open and they fixed that in 0.2.2???

[compact igloo]

Do you perhaps have video of this? I am sure that the devs would love to see it if you did.

[trail hound]

I have a video of the opposite its 0.1 I think but have encountered similar behavior in 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3 I stand by AI will shoot into a bush if they saw you enter it as you would if AI move into a bush you spam the shit out of it. 0.3 I have been healing myself in a bush after runing to break line of sight and hide in a bush they walk right up to the bush looking for you but dont shoot until they get line of sight, link below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1w_W9MkwJg

[pearl adder]

I'll have medal open next time, but I pray it won't happen again lol

[timber valley]

Still tanking shots? 0.3 they still were tanking, so just checking in.

[flat violet]

depends on ping

they're better

[hazy crypt]

I'd say their time to shoulder weapon and fire needs to be nerfed, especially when opening doors.

I have been shot many times in 0.3 where an ai has opened a door, and while still in door opening animation, shot me accurately in less time than I could humanly react.

Closing doors scares me

[bold nest]

Same with animation and gun firing, I've seen a couple videos and experienced a couple times when the running animation is going and muzzle is up. Yet the gun fires before the animation ends and transitions to the high ready.

[dry temple]

There’s also an ai that patrols that area through the bushes as well

[ionic harness]

I agree with a lot of the points listed so I won't repeat them.

One thing I'd like to see is AI working together more. They tend to be lone wolves and not cover each other.

A pretty basic cooperative task for them would be one AI providing suppressive fire (shooting where they last saw you) and another one pushing you at the same time. Ideally multiple pushing you at the same while one provides suppression. Or multiple providing suppression and multiple pushing you.

A more advanced variation would be the army AI (because they have training) spreading out and having multiple AI aiming at your position from different angles. Sometimes they do this by accident by it would be great if it was actually cooperative.

In my dream world, the AI officers (green berets?) would shout orders in their native language and the soldiers would follow the orders. By killing the officer(s) you limit the soldiers' tactical abilities and they become more lone wolves.

[compact igloo]

I like that last bit, going to add it.

Added 6) AI coordination.

[sly portal]

You mention them not 180 snap aiming anymore. I wish I'd recorded it. I had a guy at the SE entrance checkpoint 180 snap on me when I shot his buddy. Immediately fired, felt like it was as soon as I let off the trigger.

[compact igloo]

Hmm. Well Steam can be set to record in the background, so if you want something light weight just for clips you can use that.

[jovial prawn]

There have been times when I have seen the AI turn so fast their body is still facing another direction as they killed me.

[sly portal]

Ayup, seen that. Or the guy pointing waaaaaaay off to your right that domes you

[sly portal]

I use Steelseries or just raw nvidia capture. It just wasnt something i thought to clip

[ionic harness]

So this clip pretty clearly demonstrates that the AI "cheats" when detecting a player. There are two AI there. One of them is in view and looking away from me. The second one is behind the boat completely out of view.

When the grenade explodes it kills the guy who's in view. The guy who is completely out of view rushes out and starts shooting at me immediately.

If the AI only detected through sound and sight then I'd expect the second guy to run away since he doesn't know where the grenade came from. Or start searching for me.

In this case it made things easier for me. I expect the AI to rush like that so I'm ready.

But I think this kind of thing leads to a lot of frustration for players in places like Ban Pa where there's a lot of concealment for enemies and they're all spread out. The behavior is not logical so you can't apply common sense to deal with the threat. You have to sorta learn the AI tendencies and metagame it.

Sometimes the AI does seem to be in "searching" mode where they act like they're looking for you. It's common to see this when you're inside a building. The AI can't actually see you but they know you're in there so they'll all gravitate to your position but slowly.

This has always felt like a bit of a lie. The AI know where you are exactly but they're pretending to be searching to make it seem more authentic. But they never (at least that I've seen) search the wrong place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hGdU_ngMOc

This video shows off some great AI behaviors as they react to sound and sight. I'd love to see things like that in GZW.

[sterile lantern]

Bro that neat frl

Having all 3 A.I factions having maybe a small% of chance to spawn Veterans team with stolen gear 🙏🏽🔥 imagine meeting one of these squads in the jungle

[sterile lantern]

Disagree on that i only play close combat i think it really depends on the players my bro Cav play sniper only if i do that i become useless 🤷🏽‍♂️

[sterile lantern]

True

[sterile lantern]

Well i mean an ai in a down state or coma state wont come back if you dont body check him he is just either gonna die alone in the bushes or some ai will help him after you are gone idk i wanna see the ai coma state but like you said i would eventually get tired of body checking

[night shell]

It also doesn't help that the overall image quality and sight picture through holo sights/non-magnified optics is is kinda just... shit.

enemies not even 50 meters away can be hard to see for no apparent reason, when I feel like if I was actually standing outside irl, then I would see them easily.

and non-magnified scopes also seem to slightly darken the area where ever you aim.
making it even more difficult.
and also certain crosshairs in those optics also make tracking your enemy just more difficult.

over time I have gotten used to it, but I think I have never felt like I squeezed my eyes more in a game than GZW to make sure I am not missin an enemy.

[quiet void]

That last bit is almost certainly a direct result of the game being on a screen than anything. After all, once you factor in aspect ratio and own RL distance between you and the monitor into things, a head on screen at 50m is likely to be... maybe the size of your thumb, probably smaller.

I tended to find myself scanning an area for movement more than colour - that little fidget of a standing guard, the bob of movement from a walking or running guard etc. is more of a giveaway than any outfit they wear.

[ionic harness]

True story: this game made me realize I need to wear glasses more.

It's the only game I've played where the AI is so hard to spot. I already had glasses but I never really used them. I just didn't need them to see/read things IRL. But I was struggling really hard with GZW and figured I'd throw them on and it helped a looooot. So now I wear glasses only when I play this game 😂

[night shell]

if I would try playing without my galsses, then I would literally only see a blury mess of greens and browns lol

[ionic harness]

I also set my sharpness to max. I can't check right now but I think I also switched to TSR.

Took a lot of tuning to make it better. The default settings were just a big blur (even with glasses).

[night shell]

true, but I think that makes me more confident that enemies (AI, at least) need to be ever so lightly "highlighted" to stand out a little.
we can talk about realism this, realism that all day, but ultimately it is a game and some aspects have to be compensated to make the experience better,
the devs themselves have also said that ultimately "fun" game-design will take priority over hardcore realism.

[trail hound]

I strafe wiggle side to side whilst scanning ai seem to stand out for some reason when I do that

Also presents a moving target instead of standing still scanning

[quiet void]

Perhaps - I'm not sure I'd want to see them highlighted, but their "idle" animations can be hard to spot if they are standing still, especially in jungle/foliage areas.

Camo is great for that part, but I think just turning up the idle movement aspect just a little (exaggerated handwaving to move branches in dense jungle/foliage for example, or swatting away irritating flies) would work wonders instead of just highlighting them, keeping the realism while allowing for better detection.

[ionic harness]

This is pretty spot on. You just made realize why it's so much easier for me to spot players in pvp. I'll notice a player at pretty crazy distances if they show up in my view for just a second.

It's because players are always moving, shifting, looking around.

[quiet void]

Movement (especially fast movement) draws your eye and attention faster than pattern/colour recognition does - our engrained evolutionary behaviours basically are kicking in at that point. If something is not moving, then you're being forced to pick out by colour, pattern, etc. if something belongs or not, and that takes longer for our brain to process than a simple flicker of movement.

Even if we aren't immediately recognising that movement as a threat, it draws our awareness faster than anything else, and that can mean life or death, really.

[ionic harness]

Improved idle animations should be a suggestion all its own. It would be really really really good.

Come to think of it even when they're aiming at you their movement is pretty stiff.

[compact igloo]

Ask and you shall receive.

Added 7) AI idle animations.

[hazy crypt]

Add more effective suppression against the ai.

Seems 50/50 currently whether they get effected by suppressive fire. They can still provide effective fire while suppressed.

Meanwhile we get suppressed by a single round and can't see 10 metres.

[compact igloo]

The issue with this is the suppression to the player imo, and not a lack of it to the ai.

The ai are still too good at locating player fire, tuning this is one of the harder things I think mfg has to do. And doing it without giving the ai a hive mind is probably part of the issue.

Player suppression could probably be turned down a bit, but that would lead to issues in Warfare most likely, and I dont really want to suggest splitting how the game operates any more between the two modes.

[serene estuary]

the newest patch made the ai way too good in the day, ai detection/identification is way too crazy

[mental geyser]

the AI arent that good, 80% of them are blind and braindead

[night shell]

yeah, I can't really agree with AI being too hard.
my experience with AI is that they are way too easy.
they only really pose a threat in large numbers.
but beyond that their aim is trash, their reaction time is trash, their movement and tactical decision making is trash.
might even be a hot take, but they have been easy to deal with since the launch. Even with the alleged "aimbot"

[mental geyser]

I think in 0.1 and early 0.2 they were a but hard due to weirdly good vision. But since halfway through 0.2 they are been pretty easy. Especially now they are blind at night

[heady turtle]

I think the reason why the AI "sucks" is because people complain too much. The AI isn't too hard, much less difficult than when they first gave us access to the game. I have rarely died in the PvE servers because I've figured out how to exploit the AI's shortcomings to my advantage to make everything a cake walk.

People seem to forget that the AI can HEAR you and will fire with prediction based on the location of the sound if they can't see you. If you crouch walk, they don't really hear you and at night time, they don't really see you either. All aimbot accusations are dismissed immediately in my mind because you either made noise and didn't move or they could see you.

If they want to keep the vision detection at the same level is it now, there needs to be lighted up areas set up in the main locations, kind of like what Tiger Bay has with the LAF checkpoints, that we are able to disable to maintain discretion either by turning off or destroying a generator. Night time is really that easy right now.

There needs to be more AI in certain areas, like intersection near the refugee camp could be an LAF checkpoint with 8 guards. Could have more guards inside YBL. The Midnight Sapphire Hotel Beach (Just that area around the beach) has A LOT of guards in that area and it should feel like that in all the main spots of the game.

If the LAF Guard AI can split up and perform flanking tactics and crossfires, it would feel much harder and more rewarding to clear through these areas. All the militia and criminal gang AI should be inaccurate and not overly tactical.

I also think the LAF Guards and the local militia/criminal AI should fight each other if they see each other, surely it's illegal to be brandishing weapons in public if you aren't military. Would also be cool if Fort Narith had an intruder siren that brought a large number of AI to that location, like if the HQ or north/main/airfield entrance got attacked, then you could have the old entrances as back doors that wouldn't trigger the whole Fort.

The fun part of the game is fighting a lot of AI at once, which is why I like doing Midnight Sapphire Hotel, there are so many in a small area. Tiger Bay Central is too big so not at many are concentrated in one spot like MSH and Fort Narith is kinda the same, imo.

[mental geyser]

Another thing is, people die in 1 shot but stand in the open or if running cant comprehend strays, ricochets or the enemy hitting them. A lot of people want the AU to wound them and not kill them. I personally love how we can die just as easily as them

[night shell]

To be fair, i get why it sucks to be one shotted by AI. It kinda removes a big aspect of teamplay by killing you instantly, instead of a putting you in a coma.

[mental geyser]

I don't think so, gives your team the priority to secure the area and send someone back towards the COP or LZ to make sure you get back in safely

[night shell]

tactic-wise it is extremely stupid to send one mate back alone to secure LZ or a nearby COP.

for your dead teammate.

the way the game currently works: it makes more sense to guard your mate's corpse and wait for his return.
if your mate dies before he can get to his corpse, then the guarding teammate(s) could just pick up your stuff and bring it back to base.

your tactic also only works if you're in at least a 3-man squad.

and based on what I have seen in pvp, if we exclude solos, the majority of people seem to only have one buddy at a time to play with.

[sly portal]

pvp is the minority where most of these suggestions are concerned. The ability to loot your buddy's body and bring it all back to him/her at base is not something most people have the ability to do, because they focus on PvE.

[night shell]

your argument is void, since it holds no importance in the context prophet and Idiscussed.

we talked about PvP.

bringing up PvE is useless distraction.

[mental geyser]

This, I wish we could have a system in the friends list and you can tick whether or not you want to allow said friend to be able to loot you

[sly portal]

Given i only read back to the beginning of the day, in the last 18 hours pvp has been mentioned 2 timew, by you, one of those bring inference only since you only talk about looting your mates gear to bring it back.

The rest of the conversation could either be about pvp or pve.

Step down off of your pony, child.

[mental geyser]

Would work in PvP and PvE. In PvP stops people from being able to tk and rob you cause IRL you'd be shot or arrested for doing this to another company man

[night shell]

I brought up PvP, because Prophet brought it up.
PvP is also part of the game and maybe you are not aware, it is also meant to be the main experience.
why do you think the devs have set it to "warfare" by default for newcomers?´

You can't ignore one side of the game, because you or anyone else does not care about it.
so no need to get cheeky with me.

[night shell]

I would argue for PvE, squadmates or people in your friendlist should get access to your body.
or at least be able to toggle that.

[mental geyser]

Yea Id love a toggle option so trusted friends can loot

[sly portal]

I'm well aware of Warfare servers, i play on them. I'm not ignoring either side. I spoke up simply to point out that looting your mates gear is got possible for the pve players because the conversation, as i had read it from the beginning of the day, did not dictate that pvp was the sole thing being discussed. You're the one who got cheeky with me first.

And yes. Friends bring able to loot your corpse would be great but i feel that it breaks the intent behind the one chance and adds too much safety

As for AI. Id like them to at least aim before firing.

[night shell]

how did I get cheeky? By telling you your argument is useless in the context it was discussed with between prophet and me?

[sly portal]

Buddy. You're the only one who brought up pvp in the last two days in this thread. Please go read. Prophet didn't once mention pvp directly until after i wrote my first comment.

He talks about team tactics. Then you go into pvp.

[night shell]

his scenario almost exclusively would only be a necessity in PvP.

there is no need to go back and "secure" a COP or LZ for a teammate in PvE.

[sly portal]

Sending someone back to ensure a clear route? If that's a pvp only scenario then I'm Ghandi

He didn't say secure the cop, he said secure the route

YOU said secure the cop/Lz

Literacy.

[night shell]

"I don't think so, gives your team the priority to secure the area and send someone back towards the COP or LZ to make sure you get back in safely" -Prophet

??

Again, why would you need to go all the way back to an LZ or a COP, if the context is PvE?

[sly portal]

"Back towards..."

Not

"Back to secure.."

#1387603563437363220 message

You're the one who jumped straight to the idea of securing a cop or lz

[night shell]

AGAIN. Why would you need to send anyone back to the COP or LZ, if it is PvE?

[sly portal]

And i have, plenty of times, gone back to make sure a route to the body of a dead player is secure so that a naked runner can make it in unscathed.

[night shell]

Clearing the are you died in? Sure, I agree, but why go all the way back to COPs or LZ?

[sly portal]

In this particular instance you're being too literal. Nobody goes all of the way back. They go back to a spot that may be dangerous to the runner if the AI have begun respawning.

And they clear the route for the runner if needed. Its basic teamwork.

[night shell]

if we talk about PvE, then the route is most likely already cleared, since your squad already moved through it.

Not only that, but Prophet also didn't refute my PvP angle.... so why are you even arguing with me when Prophet did nto care enough to do so?

[sly portal]

Uh, because i don't speak for him? Why would his opinion matter when i directed my reply at you?

You brought up PvP. I replied to you.

[night shell]

Apparenly you do, because you argued that I misunderstood him???

[sly portal]

You did.

[night shell]

So you do speak for him, huh?

[sly portal]

Your inability to read made me quote his words, I did not speak for him, I corrected you.

Let me lay it out for you bullet point style.

[night shell]

No, you are just arguing nonsense.
I talked with Prophet and he ultimately never corrected my PvP assumption.

and we kept arguing in that context until you came along.

you can save your message, I see no point in arguing about this topic anymore.

[sly portal]

• I reply to you, citing that your PvP-only methodology doesn't help PvE players because they can't do it.
• My logic? The majority of players in GZW are PvE players.
• You reply like a petty child, making it sound as if the entire conversation concerning AI mechanics has been about PvP for the last however many days when, in fact, you're the only one who steered into PvP only territory and only in a single reply.
• There were, in fact, only 7 messages between you and prophet before i replied and the 7th is the one I replied to. Not much of a "whole conversation" or an "argument" in either sense.
• You try to drag Prophet back into it by claiming he didn't refute you.

And?

Yep, run off.

To get back on topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMHhdigCYGU

Can we make the AI aim when they fire?

[night shell]

wasting my time is not running off.
but keep pretending like you are the "grown" adult, the way you talk.

have a good day.

[sly portal]

I'm a grown ass adult and an asshole.

You wanted to act like a little shit, you get treated like one.

[night shell]

I can agree with one thing there.

[sly portal]

Can't read your own conversation? Not my fault.

[trail hound]

Hopefully this is what they are fixing in 0.3.5 they mentioned a fix for AI aiming in the vod this morning

[sly portal]

Hopefully.

While I'm not particularly bothered by it (I laughed my ass off in that vid), I am bothered, however, by the 180 snap shots they make on occasion. They should need time to turn around like we do, lol

[trail hound]

they could be a touch more accurate though....🫣

https://tenor.com/view/burn-ami-mckellan-jordyn-raya-james-family-reunion-fore-gif-18451454

[heady turtle]

The AI at the top of the stairs killed you though? The other one was just shooting the wall like an idiot

[sly portal]

While true, I've taken multiple plate hits from AI who were seemingly aiming off into space while the game tried to get their animations moving. Its not who killed me, ita just their actions that I'm pointing out.

AI who are mid-instant 180 that are firing, if you go by the animation, in the same direction I am, albeit at an angle off to the side, but still smacking me in the arms/chest

[bold nest]

Also, fix the issue where the ai can bum rush you, lock your barrel in the down ready position, then proceed to blow your brains out.

[mental geyser]

This si why i started running and SBR again to minimise this happening

[sly portal]

Headshots while their barrel is in your groin too

[shell turtle]

I've hard 3.5 supposed to bring some AI improvements when it comes to aiming and spotting. I hope the biggest improvement would be in semi dark conditions. Now around 4:30-5:50 especially with bad weather player can't see anything and AI is seeing like it was full on day. I got hit from around 80m while I broke contact and was slowly crouching away to the side - the guy was under a lamp and I was on dark background with a lot of bushes around. No way human could see me in these conditions. The screenshot is a few moments later but conditions/visiblility are the same.

It feels like AI now has two states only: day and night, and once 04:30 hits, they see like if it was sunny midday.

[vestal haven]

My experience was getting one tapped in the starter town, from about 50ish meters away, in dead ass pitch black night. I was using nods, and sneaking. The flip flop tank top wearing dude saw me like it was noon. This is after he ate 2 rounds of 300 blackout to the face, doubled over like he got kicked in the balls and turned into Usain Bolt.

[shell turtle]

Still needs rework. I hope 3.5 would bring it. I was breaking contact in MS today, and from like 50m I got one taped while jumping and mid air 🤣

These are single cases, I guess - like aimbot - but the semi dark conditions piss me off the most, I have to put contrast to minimum between 4:30 and 7:00 to make it square with AI at this time of a day. Night with NVG of- course on contrast 100%.

[bold nest]

ya the ai aiming is going to be finicky. I mean we know that the code says hey your vision gets better at 5 and worse at 22, but in reality it should be there is fog I can only see x meters in front of me or there is no dark I have to use sound. I think our and mad fingers optimal ai wont emerge until 0.6-0.8. All we can do is log these "weird" events, provide the appropriate feedback, i.e. what where you doing, is there video or pics, and be persistent.

[drowsy glacier]

Playing nowdays on starter town, those things still happen to me:
fully frontal hits (acog4x) on naked AI are registered as side hits on the skin surface, hitting vital organs area but without penetration. (fmj-ps rounds)
During AI animation of "bending for taking damage" AI still eating bullets.
Also tracer rounds (BT-856) sometime still bouncing on AI.
naked AI killing you with headshot looks lot reduced, but they still pinpoint your soft armpit very well, like "you have to die now".
anyway, hit registration looks way better, and AI behavior is sure more human than before.🙏

[shell turtle]

Bouncing can happen, it's part of the design. If the bullet enters the body, ricochet of bones and exit the body, then this is what would we see, especially with tracers.

Unles it was some bug, what could be either.

[heady turtle]

I think perhaps 5am is classified as day time so maybe the AI vision is jumped back up to what it is in Day Time even though it is still kinda dark

[shell turtle]

I feel the same. Like if there is hard line and no matter the conditions AI's behaviour flips in 0/1 mode - night or day, no in between.

[vestal haven]

I've pretty much stopped playing after getting one tapped to the chest twice by AI, through armor, from about 50ish meters, at night. I had NODs on, using an IR laser, was in complete darkness and the AI (flip flops, tank top and sunglasses at night) saw me like I was a Christmas tree. One tapped. Came back for my gear, again. That's after I sunk 3 rounds of 300 blackout into the bot's head, to which he proceeded to turn into Barry Allen and run for cover, from which he lit me up.
It's been a good 3 months since then. Has anything changed? Are the AI still x-ray vision, omniscient, cat eyed with surgically implanted night vision, echolocating, one tap aimbot T1000 Terminators shooting depleted uranium ammo?
Should I bother reinstalling the game or just wait for 0.4?

[mental geyser]

Depends what armour youre using and what ammo they are using. 50m is close so the round will not have any fall off to damage.

Ai have had some minor changes since you last played. 3.5 is coming soon which is a big overhaul to AI which testers are really happy with. If you want to play id say wait for 3.5 or if you have other games to play maybe wait for .4?

[bold nest]

what he said 👆 , Id even say just wait till .4. It is suppose to be releasing in about a months time if we are following the 6 month release cycle.

[vestal haven]

So I gave it another try. First AI I came to, parked a 5.56 round square into his face from some 25m away. Same old same old, dude doubled over like he just got punched in the dick and then turned into Jesse Owens sprinting for cover. So nothing new there...

[main raven]

Such behaviours will be greatly fixed in .3.5.0. it is a big issue for me as I'm pve player, but looks like it will be significantly better.

[sterile lantern]

You say ‘’it will’’ like its been confirmed.? oooooor.?🤔

[main raven]

I've tested 3.5.0. so ye the changes in recent patch are kinda confirmed (and on the last streams from mfg)

[vestal haven]

That's nice. So bullets kill AI when they hit their head in 3.5.0? 🤣

[drowsy glacier]

is the "terminatish" effect, and will be correct on the next updates if understood well, so.. btw, 27:15 of the twitch live explain a lot

every hope matter

[vestal haven]

We'll, this feels a lot better. The AI can still kill you if you're stupid, but if you play smart and have some degree of situational awareness, you're fine. I wiped my character yesterday, and got through 15 tasks in one afternoon, without dying once. Had a few close calls, but I managed to live.

I climbed on top of the concrete pipes in the yard next to the lumber yard, and 4 bots were there and almost instantly lit me up. I killed 2 and had to hide in a bush to do some pretty severe healing. Used up almost all my meds and a bot came around looking for me. Killed him and took out the last guy. Completed the task and had to limp and wheeze back to the LZ because I was low on blood, no painkillers and still had a hole in my leg.
Now, before this update, I would have probably been one tapped the second I popped up on those pipes. It was a dumb thing to do and I almost paid for it with my life, but came out ok.
All in all, feels a lot better. And, oh, yes, shooting the AI actually kills them now.

[drowsy glacier]

sometime yes, sometime no, (as always). This naked one took me 2 fully frontal shot at 1mt, and as always it happen that sometime register the hits like sideway trought skin shots. I'm testing it with 00 at starter town.. cya .4

[vestal haven]

Well, I've died only once since the update came out, and that's because I took cover in a compound full of AI (was taking fire from outside, didn't see the bots inside)

[tawny raven]

I agree with most of what you’re saying, save for the AI experience bit, i think a different way to implement it would be generally more helpful to the game and reflect reality a bit better:

lvl 1-3 AI (lamang thugs and starter town bandits): many of those guys are foreigners who came in for thrill and pillage, most if not all of them have zero training and tactical knowledge, realistically, they’d behave a lot like gangsters, would be undisciplined, they’d probably be huddled around some buildings with some shitty ass rap music playing, and when they shoot you, they’re a lot more likely to fire without coordination and much movement, trying stuff like the “somalian” sticking their rifle out from behind walls and firing without aiming.

Level 4-6 poorly trained insurgents and soldiers: these guys will actually have some discipline and training, they should be able to suppress you and maneuver, but will not have much better firing accuracy than the gangsters, If you’ve seen videos of how irl armed forces behave, especially rookies in peacetime, a lot of them are juvenile shitheads, or in the case of conscripts in countries like lamang, demoralized, kept in line with a combo of abuse not even marine corps DI’s would dream of, promise of glory and ego boost, and threats to their very lives.

This should be reflected in their idle animations, behavior, and dialogue.

Level 7-10, fully trained professionals, IE the more veteran members of lamang’s armed forces and the soon to be strauss company, they’d act like fully trained and disciplined soldiers, they’d have especially good firing accuracy compared to the last guys, making their suppression much more effective and fighting them solo a bad idea, they’d also pull off more sophisticated stuff, always properly pieing rooms, placing them in places like fort narith or near ground zero will dissuade players from solo venturing, encourage players to learn proper tactics and coordination, they’re not to be fucked with.

[sterile lantern]

Holy….🔥🔥🔥

https://tenor.com/view/its-perfect-colin-jost-saturday-night-live-the-weekend-update-perfect-gif-16354410

[tawny raven]

As for shooting around plates? The plate is placed in the center mass area of the body where you’re most likely to be shot, anything that hits anywhere else (when it comes to stuff that isn’t close quarters with full auto anyways) should be a side product as most trained shooters nowadays still aim center mass

[tawny raven]

Eh, i probably might be wrong with a couple things tbh

[sterile lantern]

Maybe maybe but that the kind of suggestion i would write if my English was better🙏🏽😅 that thing with Insurgents being demoralized and bandit being undisciplined shitheads is 👌🏽👌🏽 frl that would make the game feel waaaay more real

[tawny raven]

Oh insurgents aren’t demoralized, for all this? It depends on the context

I’m saying conscripts are usually demoralized

I only suggested this because i’m trying to make this fit the mold, i know the lore of the game and the context

The Lamang armed forces was a relatively professional fighting force, it wasn’t until things really started going south, their leader fleeing the country after the anomalies showed up that they started press ganging people into service

Before then they had decent combat experience with insurgents

As for the insurgents? Those guys hate the government and would kill to destroy it, so duh, not really demoralized

They also don’t seem to be suffering TOO badly even before then

[tawny raven]

And yes, bandits are shitheads lol, no two ways about that

[sterile lantern]

Hooooo🤔 these answers explained a couple of this like the LAF voicelines i was wondering why they were acting like that

[viscid dove]

From what I have heard, the AI has changed a bit since I posted this. Looking forward to 4.0

I haven't played in quite a while. 3.0 was good, but had it's issues. I'll be back around to provide more feedback when 4.0 drops.

[serene estuary]

Ai still Sprints and shoots at you.

Ai armour seems to hold out alot more shots now, but that could be just bad luck idk

Ai leg shots are nowhere near lethal enough, ss the ai bleed out time is too long still.

Ai still can hold out too many shots.. its stupid. (We need a ai coma state)

Ai shots do too consistant damages:
Shoulder shots always end up in the Organs, seriously what is up with that?

[mental geyser]

AI coma state is needed and would be great.

With shoulder shots hits hit and miss, really depends on the angle the bullet goes, if its side on you F'd. That being said front on shoulder shots havent killed me once since 3,5

The sprint and shoot does happen too, happened in TB yesterday

[bold nest]

I would say the ai armor shot stuff sucks but is also right based on the armor that they wearing, I think. Besides that it is all a little infuriating but I like the current ai compared to all the past versions.

[vestal haven]

The AI are a lot better now in 3.5, manageable, unless in large groups. The main issue that still remains is how they react to being shot, or should I say, don't react. After receiving non lethal shots, they are still fully functional. Shot in the leg, still running. Shot in the arm, still firing normally. Shot in the chest, shoulder, abdomen, still fully functional.

1. Leg/hip shots should cause a limp at the very least, slow down movement, and cause pain and a reduction in general functionality.

2. Arm/shoulder shots should cause a reduction in accuracy, if not a full loss of ability to use the affected arm. As well as pain and a reduction in functionality.

3. Chest/abdomen shots should downright incapacitate the AI, or at the very least drop them to the ground (they could still fire inaccurate while on the ground)

4. Headshots need to be lethal, unless deflected by a helmet. For bots without head protection (bandana, ball cap, beret, whatever) a headshot with ANY caliber or ammo type needs to kill. For bots wearing helmets, the helmet needs to deflect/stop sp rounds but still let AP rounds through (unless it's a glance shot and a ricochet). But even then, a helmet hit needs to, at the very least, daze and concuss the enemy. If someone takes a round to the helmet, there is no universe where they will stay on their feet and keep fighting without reacting.

We need the AI reacting more to being hit.

[unreal carbon]

I know it's in EA, but seeing ai in a comma state and having fellow ai drag to revive etc would be cool. Them reacting to truama would be baller too.

[shell tusk]

The only reason AI feels sponge is because you need a fully destroyed organ or blood drained for them to die, they don’t have that down state like player PMC do. Although with the new bleed system its not as bad but still noticeable

[main raven]

Ok now I see the rag doll turning into the direction of being shot is also applicable to ai ragdolls. I really don't like it. For players ok, but I personally don't like it in AI.

[compact igloo]

Glad to see people generally agree it's better.

On that note, what weapons and ammo are you using? It still feels like 5.56 sp is hot garbage, but thankfully fmj is pretty quick to get still.

[viscid dove]

You mean SP against tier 1 targets?

Cause soft point ammo has a soft point lol

It's not going to penetrate body armor unless you get multiple hits on a ceramic plate

[vestal haven]

I've reset my character so I'm still on Gunny lvl1, therefore using SP. Been ok in the starter town tho.

[mental geyser]

SP is fine for unarmoured, head shots with 5.56SP are horrible though, need to test post this patch again

[serene estuary]

Ai needs fixngb asap in these behaviours:
Ai running with the gun up and shooting
AI still shooting you if your so close to them to be able to stab them the ai should not be able to shoot you when you cover theyr gun

[serene estuary]

the issue is SP ammo is kind of.. not good in gzw even in flesh shots

[viscid dove]

Never had a problem with it with tier 1 bots

[serene estuary]

When i started 0.3 the sp ammo was not good at all even against t1 enemys

[drowsy glacier]

hope they will fix once forever

3 - 00 shot in the chest at point blank, lol

[serene estuary]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clRsN4rlPZY

at the 12:10 minutemark you can see the ai sprinting and shootingh and killing the player this behaviour needs to go

[serene estuary]

also thats why we need an comastate for the ai like cmon his brains is mush at the second medium wound

[drowsy glacier]

slowing .25x you can see the bot rifle firing at ground meanwhile pmc is taking damage to coma. This and more is still happening and never get fixed. If you want to find out more, goto starter town with a shotgun 00ammo, or a Cz61. On the other hand after 0.35 i never been killed by HS (hit yes but helmet) or under armpit hit. Btw, after 1.5years the AI is in a very slow cooking. As i said, i love this game, and those stuff need to be fixed maybe before adding new contents.

[drowsy glacier]

for the comastate to AI i don't know, really. Ofc could be cool, but maybe not really necessary now. Actually they have a "taking damage" animation during that they bend and touching head, and yes, as they said on the last live, this animation generate some great spongy moments.

[drowsy glacier]

this one 2 point blank 00 to the heart🤣

[remote marsh]

How many shots did you take. Is that one shot of buck or two. I suspect the game just chooses a pellet to be the killing shot when an ai is hit with multiple bullets like that in the same moment

There are 9 hit markers listed so I'm guessing it was one shell fired, as 00 only holds 9. I think my theory might be correct

[drowsy glacier]

those 2 pics was from the same buttnaked npc at starter town, it took 2 shots of 00 at heart, point blank. Btw, doesn't matter. Every hope matter

probably every signature "00 12GA" is the single pellet of the buckshot ammo that have registered on one single shot.

so on the 1st shot we have 5 pellets and on the 2nd we have 4 pellets