FOB guards in PvE should not be lootable

[bold tangle]

Off the top, FOBs should still have guards. I think they provide some good immersion. But since there's no player-on-player fighting, they don't actually serve a function in PvE. FOB raids just aren't a thing.

With that in mind, they shouldn't be lootable.

For those of you that have killed and looted any of them, sorry to suggest taking away this potential gameplay - but there's a TON of ways to acquire gear.

Oh, and PvP should remain the same. No problems there since there's real risk associated with it.

[carmine mirage]

I am actually rather inclined to agree with this. Those who know, know and know also that it's complete bullshit. I mean you basically laugh at the game after doing it. Needs to be fixed as soon as possible!

[waxen spade]

I like the concept and would like to have it stay in some form. Maybe more emphasis on COPs or new compounds with the same idea but not in the current abused system.

[bold tangle]

The fact that you can't even shut the front gate is a clear sign that we haven't gotten actual "support" for this sort of game play.

I wouldn't mind all of this sort of interaction to be pushed to COPs. At least there, when you're taking over an existing camp, you can make concessions for it to have holes in the fence, etc.

Hard to really justify that with your FOB.

Again, leave the guards for aesthetics - but I don't think it's something you're going to want to actually encourage. Especially since a scenario exists where you could get spawn-locked.

[waxen spade]

Yes which is why I stated not the current abused system. Right now they big dum dums funneling just like we do to AI at MS Hotel for example but these guards have much more value for a simple cheese strat. Closing the gate would be cool, let them toss grenades and actually take cover as well. There does seem to be missing functions so disabling this for now may be better until they put some dev time on it.

[simple path]

Fully agree, we tried this late last patch as we were looking for extended content and was a bit of a laugh but they were lethal in that patch didnt funnel looking straight ahead, now they just walk out of the gate to be slaughtered. Its almost game breaking sure its a hike but how many ddm's can you walk away from a simple sit and funnel at the gate. I even saw one pair step back from the wall to snipe roof top AI in the last patch that would have been death. In PVE just make them unlootable I think

[simple path]

If they do stay lootable, then my suggestions would be lock the villa that currently can be enterable, increase mortar rate so there is not really a safe place to snipe the rooftops. Grenades are a good idea. Maybe respawning outside perimeter guards that can circle around and approach the gate from either side. Or make the base AI lethal again

[bold tangle]

At present, none of this actually matters. There's other stuff that needs to get fixed as well.

I'm avoiding sharing details deliberately.

[waxen spade]

I think it's a good subject matter though. Is there something that they can do for now, or is it not something they care to prioritize? If they make guards unlootable or close the gates, what's the purpose of mortars, should those also be turned off then?

[bold tangle]

With the more exploity way it's being done, the mortars are never triggered no matter how many guards you take down.

But if they're going to start making any changes, making them unlootable should be pretty straight forward since they already have that tech. There's no models that need to be changed. No new interactions. I imagine it's probably just one line of config for those mobs.

The mortars, at least, can still be used for player-demand bombing.

[waxen spade]

Yeah for sure keep player mortars in play, just more the base ones. It is pretty comical though how much you can stack up endlessly farming FOB guards which then, ok, I can see that being annoying going to Warfare after. I don't get too up in arms about this stuff though cause it's only 0.3.

[simple path]

I did wonder at the lack of mortars on a couple of raids on our base, maybe just stop the guards from pushing through the gate, so if they want to loot the have to enter the compound

[bold tangle]

In general, I like the AI behavior to push players. It's turned MS into a MUCH more challenging environment. If they AI were a bit smarter, they could push on reload, etc and that would help a lot. We'll get there, I'm sure.

[simple path]

I had one push me on reload in FNHQ I swear and hope that it was coded to do it, I backed off to a corner with low angles to reload a he came sprinting up to where I was and shot me in the face

I too like the pushing and seems a bit more intelligent in this patch they will push from multiple doorways when they can but maybe having one or 2 hold the angle of your exit when you try to leave

[simple path]

would be the easiest solution for sure

[hidden dune]

Currently,AI would push when ur moving backwards or opening your backpack.They are already smart enough.

[subtle leaf]

I have to agree with the suggestion, I've done a FOB raid solo essentially naked with the lowest tier weapon I could find and I walked away with $10K or more worth of loot. Just absolutely broken and can be done literally at the start of the wipe.

[hidden dune]

It should be more challenging if those guards are lootable.Not just kill 9 sentries and walk straight in.

[bold tangle]

Was talking to someone else about that. Literally day 1 with the most throwaway trash AK and garbage ammo.

You have one successful run and then you're rocking top tier gear and can take out every goon that walks out the gate.

You just don't need this in PvE - esp when the opposing players can't do anything except watch (since you can't loot your own guards!).

[subtle leaf]

Yep. It is funny and cool to get the weapons from them. But absolutely undefendable from a game balance standpoint. I honestly don't think it is needed in either, but at least in Warfare there is some level of counter-play.

[waxen spade]

At least I go work for my loot at level 1 going to FN lol

[bold tangle]

Leave it in warfare. That feels like a "fuck around and find out" sort of situation. Much higher risk and the opposing players can obviously intervene.

[subtle leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/honest-work-good-honest-work-it-may-not-be-glamorous-the-simpsons-gif-13763673

[nimble sleet]

Id rather the FOB guards treat the other players as friendly and are made immune to player damage.

[raven spade]

I haven't tried it since 0.1.2.2, what percentage of players are actually doing it these days?

[nimble sleet]

I did a test run to verify what peeps here are on about, Crimson Shield took such offense to it that players ran outside and started magdumping me when I was in PvE to try to flinch me till their AI killed me.

Clearly its being done enough.

And with the haul of M855A1 filled 60 rounders I got (I have already given them away) with a crappy Mosin, given the low limit of AR 60 rnders at Gunny 4 I wouldn't be surprised.

[bold tangle]

I think the answer is "enough".

You want to pinch off exploits where they exist. And this definitely qualifies.

[nimble sleet]

Again, I think I have the preferable solution.

Base AI are universally friendly in PvE, PvP has separate faction guards as usual, but get the Mortars to dial in RAPIDLY if people try to gate camp

As it stands, I tried to bait the Mortars and they didn't hit a single round or fragment.

[main grail]

there are only fob gaurd in pvp

[bold tangle]

I think you're confusing FOB and COP.

[main grail]

ahhh

the main base

since when can you kill them i trew a grenade and they survived i did it in pvp

[bold tangle]

The main base, where you spawn is the FOB. There are guards there in both game modes.

The combat outposts (COPs) are the in-the-field bases that you can take over. The big ones have guards in PvP but they won't respawn in PvE.

I'm talking exclusively about the guards at your FOB - which do exist in both PvP and PvE.

Even in PvE, I can go to another faction's FOB and kill their guards and loot them.

[main grail]

do they shoot you

[bold tangle]

They can. But there's ways to cheese that extremely efficiently.

[main grail]

snipe

[bold tangle]

Not even.

[main grail]

how then

[bold tangle]

I'm going to refrain from sharing the details, but the long and short is that you can create a rather large body pile and loot them with almost zero risk - walking away with a lot of high tier loot. This can be done with effectively zero cost on day 1 of a wipe.

[main grail]

i am not trying to do it found an efficient way to clear the ms hotel

[bold tangle]

I'm still not going to share the details 🙂

[main grail]

so you are kinda saying you can lure them out kill them then loot and walk away

in pve

[bold tangle]

The point is, this exploit needs to get closed - and one of the easiest paths to that is making the guards unlootable in PvE.

They're already unlootable by the same faction the guards belong to. Just extend that to everyone and call it a day.

[bold tangle]

In a nutshell yes.

[main grail]

why do people even got to an enemy fob

[main grail]

can the player kil you then

[bold tangle]

Not in PvE! That's the rub.

I think it's fine to leave this in PvP for that reason. But lock it down in PvE.

[main grail]

so can the ai kill you in pve

[bold tangle]

They can. But, again, it's very easy to game around that.

Maybe that won't always be the case - but we know that AI behavior is a far more difficult area to improve and it changes all the time.

[main grail]

so you can start with a mosin and end with 6 ar's

even more

[bold tangle]

You can start with the most trash AK you picked up from a dead starter town flip flopper with SP ammo and walk away with DDMs and MCXs with the best ammo.

And top tier helmets and armor.

[main grail]

they need to fix this

[bold tangle]

That's what I'm sayin'. 😄

[raven spade]

I've literally never seen someone do this to my FOB while I've been playing, and saying that your test run equals it 'clearly being done enough' is a bit of a stretch. Just because I can fit X number of golf balls in my mouth doesn't mean that clearly too many people are doing it.
I'm not against a workaround being implemented, but it feels pretty dramatized.

[bold tangle]

I've chatted with a bunch of people that have done it and while it's certainly not a rampant problem right now, it certainly could be. Especially, as noted above, this could be done on day 1 of a wipe with no investment.

The suggestion is to make a change to prevent an exploit before it becomes widespread and problematic instead of waiting for it to be an issue.

[subtle leaf]

It is not a "rampant problem" right now because not enough people have seen it done to reliably copy it. It is literally as bmemike says.

I have done it solo and walked away with gear you can't actually reliably get in-game anywhere else. I have brought a friend to watch and he was laughing as he helped me loot corpses.

The only thing I can think of that was more game breaking than this was the duping exploit.

Unless you want what is hands down the best weapon in the game with the best ammo in the game available from not even day one, but hour one, it needs to be patched.

[bold tangle]

Folks that are in the know are trying to walk that delicate line between transparently calling out a problem while trying to avoid propagating it.

But it's honestly only a matter a time before someone makes a click-baity video or reddit post about it at this point.

Why not get in front of that?

[raven spade]

Wouldn't that just force their hand to do something?

I mean, we are still playing in EA with wipes.

[bold tangle]

Yes - but again, why let it get to the point where there's a problem and all sorts of progression is messed up if you can avoid that entirely and still patch out the issue?

If the outcome is still the same (patching out the problem) then isn't it better to do that before some part of the economy is FUBAR'd?

[subtle leaf]

I am all for this gear being in world. I do love my barbie guns.

But being able to knife a barefoot dude in the back, pick up his gun and hike to the opposite side of the map so I can get end game gear is just a bit extreme I think.

Put them in FN or Tb or MNS. Not somewhere I can reach with almost zero effort.

[fierce fable]

In pvp, the faction can defend it's base, in pve who cares?

Literally, why the fuck do you care that someone else gets too tier ammo?

[subtle leaf]

Becasue you can take the guns to warfare my guy

[fierce fable]

Then the solution is to separate pvp and pve

[subtle leaf]

nope

[fierce fable]

What do you mean nope, it literally solves this problem

And the myriad of problems associated with having two separate modes that you can switch between on one char

[subtle leaf]

And creates so many more.

[fierce fable]

I can go into FN with a starter gun and come out with high end gear

[fierce fable]

Like?

Separate the pve only mode from pvpve and these issues don't happen

If you let the enemy faction zerg your base in pvp, that's on you

[magic lark]

Removing something harmless like this makes no sense. I love going on base raids to get A1, and now .300 AP. It's not hurting anyone more affecting anyone's game play, so I don't know the crying about making them unlootable

[subtle leaf]

How many people do you think are going to spend the time to play two separate instances of the same game.

[fierce fable]

Ok so what's stopping me from killing some guards at FN and grabbing their gun in the first hour?

[magic lark]

It doesn't matter people that want to play pvp they can people that want to play pve they can too.

[subtle leaf]

And getting the best weapons in the game with the best ammo in the game for near zero risk doesn't sound like a problem to either of you?

[fierce fable]

Again, in pve it doesn't matter, you are free to avoid this

[magic lark]

Removing the function to loot bots in PVE Fobs is useless and harmless

[fierce fable]

In pvp, the faction is supposed to defend it's own base

[subtle leaf]

It is not harmless.

[fierce fable]

Please, my brother in Christ, how does this harm you in pve?

[magic lark]

How is it not?

[fierce fable]

In pvp, yes it's unbalanced if people can carry over gear from pve

But that's a bigger and separate issue

[subtle leaf]

You literally do it. Tell me you risk anything by running it. You know.

[bold tangle]

I'm not sure if you read any of the rest of the post, but the issue isn't that players can have access to top gear. It's that they can with effectively zero risk and zero investment.

If you wade into FN with SP, you're going to have to work your ass off and then you get rewarded for hard work.

With the current situation at FOBs, you put in zero work with zero risk and immediately jump into the best gear.

That's the difference.

[fierce fable]

Again, what stops me from looting high tier gear from FN in the first hour in pve and bringing it to pvp?

[magic lark]

Buddy if you think it's a big issue you are welcome to go and play Tarkov

[fierce fable]

What hard work? I can stroll up to the airfield back entrance with a wooden ak and leave with very good plates and guns

And ammo

[subtle leaf]

Why strawman this argument?

[fierce fable]

Zero risk in pve

[bold tangle]

And what you're getting out of the FOB guards are far better than that and effectively infinitely repeatable.

[fierce fable]

Every time I die in pvp, I can stock up risk free in pve

[fierce fable]

Yes but at that point in the game, your high tier weapons are wasted on people running IIIA plates

[subtle leaf]

This isn't EFT. You should have to work for the gear. I've got zero problem with you going to FN and cleaning house. Good for you. The issue is there is no counter play to this. You can do it with zero risk on hour one.

[fierce fable]

And in any case, the problem is the fact that you can play risk free in pve and transfer the kit

[bold tangle]

Not when you're looting A1 and 300 AP from the FOB guards at the same time.

[magic lark]

RPC is not top gear Phantom is alot better. Short barrel isn't better that long barrel MCX, 20 inch barrel you can find it all across lamang.

This is not game breaking

A1 and AP .300 is also lootable

[subtle leaf]

Not like off of the FOB guards. And not even close to as easy.

[fierce fable]

Again, this all goes away the moment you separate the pvp and pve realms

[magic lark]

Doing base raids to get ammo is alot risky but rewards more if you are actually good

[fierce fable]

People who play pve are not going to pvp anyway

[bold tangle]

They disabled being able to loot your own guards because they deemed that game breaking enough - and that was something that you had to wait for someone else to kill the guards.

This is far more exploitative than that and you can do it solo.

So we have precedent that this crosses into the threshold of being "a problem" due to past dev actions.

[magic lark]

Most people that play pve true don't go to pvp

[fierce fable]

And people who play pvp should not be allowed to abuse risk free pve gear

[subtle leaf]

Except MFG have said again and again they will not do that.

[fierce fable]

Well then we find ourselves in a situation that it's never going to be balanced

Because pve offers a myriad of easy ways to get high tier loot risk free

[bold tangle]

I encourage you to start your own suggestion thread on the PvP/PvE split - but that's not what we're discussing here.

[magic lark]

Why, because some people would team kill at base to loot bodies and bots

[subtle leaf]

No, pretty simple actually, like BME said, remove ability to loot FOB guards in Joint Ops.

[magic lark]

That's exactly what we are discussing here G.

[bold tangle]

It's off-topic to the post. I'm asking you to get back on topic.

[subtle leaf]

If you would read the top line suggestion it is actually not.

[magic lark]

I can read thank you for checking with me but I am commenting on your suggestion.

[fierce fable]

So because of an issue in pvp you want to remove a feature from pure pve?

[magic lark]

It's a free discussion post

[fierce fable]

Again, it's never going to be balanced as long as the two modes are connected. You'll sacrifice pve to keep your pvp balance.

[bold tangle]

Read my post, I'm not mentioning PvP.

[magic lark]

Then it is harmless to remove buddy

[fierce fable]

Who cares about this in pve?

[magic lark]

If you can't base raid don't cry about it

[magic lark]

FR

[fierce fable]

Literally, why would you even expend resources on removing it?

I can see the argument for pvp, but pve?

[magic lark]

It make no sense

[subtle leaf]

So you think that it is the same to raid another factions FOB as it is to attack TB or FN or MNS?

[fierce fable]

But who cares?

Like, in pve this doesn't affect you one iota

And if OP is only arguing about the pve side, why do you keep bringing up pvp?

So make up your mind, do you want a pvp solution at the cost to pve, or a pve solution where it's a harmless feature?

[subtle leaf]

Go on then. Take a shitty AKM with SP ammo and no armor and fight any of the ai at any of the three POI's I listed. Then tell me it is the same level of effort.

[fierce fable]

You can trivially mulch the ai filtering through the backside gates at FN and then loot their kit.

[magic lark]

It's not the same, raiding bases is 100x harder. You need skills and team work and ton of time

High risk high reward

[subtle leaf]

No you don't. I've done it solo and walked away with gear.

[fierce fable]

In any case, who cares in pve?

[magic lark]

This is something people look for when they are done with the game

[fierce fable]

If you worry about your progression, just don't do it.

[bold tangle]

Raiding a base in PvE takes 10m to set up and 5m to get going and you can roll it over and over and over every 5m-10m.

No skill. No teamwork. It's comically simple.

It's just a loot exploit.

[magic lark]

That's how I know you did not do it

[fierce fable]

And who cares? Just don't do it.

[subtle leaf]

It is not difficult or time consuming and takes less than $1K to set up.

[fierce fable]

Who is forcing you to do this in pve?

What do you lose by not doing it - in pve?

[subtle leaf]

HAHA. one sec buddy

Just wait.

[fierce fable]

I'm loving this heavy argument about a feature that is entirely inconsequential for pve.

[magic lark]

Yep exactly my point you have not done it

[fierce fable]

I'd agree that it's a problem for pvp, but it's a problem because of a separate mechanic that allows sharing gear between pvp and pve.

[quiet plover]

not tryna hate but I think this idea is kinda meh
the gear these ai have is bad
it sells for a few hundred dollars and by no means would I use any of it barring maybe a grenade here n there

a nice bonus of some money for capturing the point is in my opinion just fine 🤷‍♀️

[magic lark]

And like @fierce fable I don't get the point of this argument about PVE. There is no leaderboard, points system, sooo why?

[raven spade]

They aren't talking about COPs, they are talking about FOBs.

[magic lark]

Same thing

[bold tangle]

Objectively incorrect

[magic lark]

FOB bots got the same helmets you can buy. They use RPC which is III+ now we have III++

[quiet plover]

Pardon my ignorance then
I've just had a few people in game say meet at the FOB and they've been at the COP
can you please enlighten me

[fierce fable]

How will your game be affected by removing this feature? Do you have so little self control that you cannot stop yourself from doing it?

[magic lark]

You are objectively and absolutely wrong G

There is no harm done looting FOB bots in PVE.

You are just mad because you can't do it yourself 🤣

[subtle leaf]

I'm this close to just making a 15 minute video to force MFG to fix it

[magic lark]

Ohh no he is going to make a video

https://tenor.com/view/awkward-introuble-ohno-shocked-whoops-gif-9056781886829673082

[fierce fable]

Aight let's calm down lol

[quiet plover]

maturity level in here is just too high for me. i might duck out of this one.

[subtle leaf]

It is just too funny that you think it is that hard.

[fierce fable]

I still don't understand why this is a problem for pve

[raven spade]

Was about to say some conversations were getting mixed up.

[fierce fable]

Pvp I understand, but that's a separate discussion

[magic lark]

I said it requires skills and time.

[fierce fable]

Hell, double the number of guards to make it more difficult

Add snipers

[magic lark]

I have sold Balck Tips in the open market more that I can remember

[magic lark]

More bullets for me 😆

[fierce fable]

Make it super tough but rewarding

Don't just dumpster the feature

[magic lark]

Which I will use in PVE

[subtle leaf]

Literally does not.

[magic lark]

It does and again shows me that you did not actually done it you. At least successfully

[fierce fable]

Ok, so let's make the fobs much more dangerous!

[magic lark]

Yeah I agree with that

[fierce fable]

And a long term solution needs to be found for freely sharing gear between pvp and pve

But that's a separate topic

[magic lark]

Make it harder for more hardcore players

[fierce fable]

Yup. Add machine gun nests, snipers, hell a minefield

Make it so that it's an achievement to raid a fob

Honestly, from a larping perspective the pmc bases are a joke from security

[magic lark]

I should get it as soon as it's out 😆

[magic lark]

Yeah

[fierce fable]

The starter town flipflop men could bully the base

[magic lark]

"I'm surprised I'm still alive"

[carmine mirage]

I sent in a report to MFG with some detailed information on how to set this up/achieve this. Hopefully it gains some traction.

[raven spade]

It has minefields. And as someone who has walked out of base to start missions in NT to combat chopper demand, that road is useful, also for people's immersionz it should still remain.

[subtle leaf]

So, here are two screen caps from the run we did, we went in naked with akm's we looted off of cop guards. 3 DDM4's 2 M4A1's 2 MCX's 300+ A1 and roughly 90 .300 AP. But it is fine, nothing to worry about here.

[naive siren]

Genuine question: If I can't kill players of the other faction in PvE, why can I kill their guards?

[bold tangle]

The game-reason is "because they're not players". But making them invulnerable is def one possible "fix".

It's the less-immersive one, but still viable.

[naive siren]

I feel like it's more immersion breaking to have nothing happen if I shoot a player in their own FOB but if I shoot the bot standing right next to them, they die.

[bold tangle]

That's how it works in the field in PvE, right? I shoot a player that runs around a corner and they keep running but I drop the AI goon immediately behind them.

And wel already have the precedent of "you can't loot your own AI guards" (because that was being exploited as early as the first pre-launch streamer event). So taking one more half step to "no AI guards can be looted" feels really easy and at least consistent with that decision.

It also gives a concession to "maybe some people want to kill them anyway?" - they just won't be rewarded for it with some very high tier gear.

[subtle leaf]

*No ai FOB guards

COP guards are first come, first serve.

[bold tangle]

Yeah, I'm not suggesting any changes to COP guards and no changes to PvP modes. Only FOB guards in PvE.

[naive siren]

The difference is the AI goon isn't a Mithras, LRI or Crimson AI goon. They're part of the Lamang Army or a Rebel Faction, or a FlipFlop douchebag.

What I'm saying is there shouldn't be any difference between a Mithras player and a Mithras bot in PvE

Or LRI player and LRI bot, Crimson player and Crimson bot, etc

[subtle leaf]

@naive siren I'm going to dm you a link to the run I went on just a bit ago. If you think that it should be in the game, I guess spread it around?

[bold tangle]

I'll say this: I'm less worried about the specific implementation of a fix than getting any fix in place.

If that's unlootable guards, fine. That makes the most aesthetic sense to me, personally. If it's unkillable guards, also fine. It's not what I'm recommending, but I absolutely wouldn't cry about it. I'm sure there's other options, but the next one would likely be a far, far distant third compared to those two.

[naive siren]

They've got in-game mechanics for both. Whether they want it to be unkillable/unlootable it shouldn't be too difficult. I think unkillable would be best because it would also allow us to have guards at COP.

I hate that the COPs are all ghost towns in PvE.

[nimble sleet]

They fire M855A1 from 60 round mags.

Yes. They shoot back, they even have snipers.

In fact, here was the loot from a half-assed attempt during my trialing of this, know what I used? A Mosin.

A friggin mosin.

And that was without looting everyone

[naive siren]

We're getting off topic when we talk about what guns were used, but bullets are bullets. Well placed shots with a Type51 can kill.

[nimble sleet]

This is correct.

But from just looting 4 guys in PvE where the other players can only try to stop this via flashbangs and flinching me via gunshots, sweet mother of immersion breaks

[naive siren]

The bottom line for me is that in "Joint Ops" the ability to kill other faction members needs to be uniformly applied to ALL members of the other factions.

Feels odd to have players from another faction killing your guards and you can't do shit about it.

[nimble sleet]

Hell, I'd be fine with being able to fly over to other faction bases and...if possible, squading up with other faction players, given the name "Joint Operations".

Step 1 is for base Guards to not act like LAF to other players.

[carmine mirage]

I'd at least hide the screenshots under the "spoiler" tag, really does this thread a disservice advertising what you can achieve by pulling this off.

[naive siren]

I just watched this. There's no way this is intended gameplay.

@magic lark

There is no harm done looting FOB bots in PVE

1. Players can farm M855A1 and .300AP to then take into PvEvP servers
2. Players can farm DDM4 and MCX guns and Vendor them for $$$ breaking the economy.

Both of these are nearly as bad as the dupping problem from 0.1

This is an infinite source of money and top tier ammo. It's an exploit and it needs to be patched.

[magic lark]

Brother I make Hella more money doing TB runs for High value loot that guns and ammo.

Again having more money doesn't break pvp nor pve. Taking away a core mechanic of the game that some players love doing just because you can't do it and calling it broke when it's not is pure ignorance.

Your argument of people can take A1 and AP .300 to PVEVP is nonsense because I have 5k A1 and 2k AP .300 just by looting around.

Selling guns wouldn't pay off how much you would spend just to attempt to base raid especially if you die too, because you now gata buy a new kit just to go back again.

Your argument @naive siren is with all due respect inaccurate

Your point of A1 and AP .300 PVEVP they would have to add a system to prevent items taken in PVE to go into PVP

[bold tangle]

Once again, you're just ignoring what everyone is telling you. You can do this run naked with a flip flop AK. Zero buy-in. Zero risk. Literally 100% upside.

I'm not sure why you're so set on sticking to the narrative you're selling when that's not what we're talking about or described multiple times.

[carmine mirage]

I really don't think he fully understands what's going on here.

[bold tangle]

He could if he was trying to instead of looking to argue.

[naive siren]

I don't think it's worth arguing with him about it either though

He's clearly outvoted

[magic lark]

I challenge you to do a run with an flip flop AK base raid. Record a vid solo

[bold tangle]

1. I did one yesterday, which is what prompted this post
2. I'm not going to post a vid for all the reasons that I shared about about not looking to promote the exploit

[magic lark]

Where is the vid with the stock AK

I don't see it here

You say it's also too easy so we're you solo?

[bold tangle]

100% solo.

[magic lark]

Brother make a vid and post it here and tag me

[carmine mirage]

This proves my point 100%.

[bold tangle]

No? I don't care about you and have nothing to prove to you. You're not worth my time to do that.

[carmine mirage]

There is a way to farm the FOB guards like mike said with nothing, but an AK. This is not a run of the mill FOB base raid.

[magic lark]

Then stop arguing about something you know nothing about especially if you got nothing to prove

[magic lark]

You do it then

Show me how easy it is Lil g

[carmine mirage]

If you'd like I can send you a detailed tutorial, but with how you're talking I worry you'd just start exploiting it yourself.

It's better off you not knowing.

[magic lark]

You guys are saying it's game breaking and it is easy, show it then

Stock AK

[carmine mirage]

The important thing is MFG knows because I sent it to them.

[bold tangle]

Again, the point is to get the exploit patched, not get more people to run it.

[carmine mirage]

Whether you believe it or not doesn't mean jack to any of us here.

[magic lark]

Ohh yeah sorry you are very important they have to change it because you sent it to them 😉 😄

[bold tangle]

But what if he taunts you? That changes things, right?

[carmine mirage]

Case in point. @bold tangle

[magic lark]

What I see here is babies crying over something ment to be done in team work and skills. You clearly don't have the team to attempt it, nor the skills. And you are also arguing that you can do it with a Stock AK which tells me that you have not done so.

I have tried it before with AK and guess what? Fire power of the AK isn't strong enough to kill them from a safe distance.

You would need at least an M4A1 with minimum of 16 inch barrel and green tips surely not a stock AK

Money is not worth the time and the risk

[waxen spade]

Let's move on from the insults and condescending comments. Let's stay on topic and not blow up this post please, everyone.

[carmine mirage]

You definitely do not understand in the slighest what we're referring to.

[magic lark]

You know what

[bold tangle]

Just a reminder: "because you can't do it" doesn't mean it can't be done.

You're working with imperfect information and don't know everything.

[magic lark]

You are right, no point of arguing with someone that is convinced that he is always right

[bold tangle]

It's a funny thing where DOING A THING does a good job of convincing you that the thing can be done.

[magic lark]

I would argue with that because I sold more that 500k A1 from base raiding

[bold tangle]

That has nothing to do with anything though. 🤷

[magic lark]

You said I don't know anything bro so I answered to that

Read bro

[carmine mirage]

The important thing is that MFG is aware, like I said whether you believe it or not has no bearing whatsoever on the ultimate goal of this post.

[naive siren]

If you guys keep going you're going to get a perfectly legit thread locked and the thread will disappear. I don't think either of you want that @carmine mirage @bold tangle

[bold tangle]

You don't know anything about the exploit that we're talking about. Bro.

You continue to talk about other stuff that's not that... thinking that somehow invalidates this other thing that you don't know anything about.

Not sure why that's so difficult to wrap your head around it.

[magic lark]

Yeah you are right

[magic lark]

Yeah brother I know you are important we get it.

[subtle leaf]

Yea, I am absolutely not going to share the link with you. If you want proof, look above at the screen caps. Both of us did it with no help from the other. #1383875689442443436 message

[carmine mirage]

The less people who know about it, the better.

[magic lark]

That's a nice AK. Did they change the name to DDM4 🤣🤣🤣

[carmine mirage]

He's just gaslighting at this point.

[subtle leaf]

Why would I bring back a free busted ak when I can pick up more DDM4's.

[carmine mirage]

He's only proving he has absolutely no idea what we're talking about.

[subtle leaf]

Yup

[magic lark]

I am sorry your highness I must not gaslighting him

[carmine mirage]

I'd send him the tutorial, but I really don't think that'd even change his mind. I mean what is he suddenly going to come back and say, "I apologize".

[magic lark]

Yeah you are right I only have 1000 hours in the game I was carried all the time 😆 🤣

[waxen spade]

I'm not saying it again, read this post - #1383875689442443436 message.

[magic lark]

Please send it I need to learn from you. I would learn a lot I bet

[subtle leaf]

Well, I don't need a whole squad to go farm the FOB's, unlike some people here.

[bold tangle]

Best if everyone just disengages please.

[nimble sleet]

back onto the topic...

[nimble sleet]

Putting a spoiler on it isn't going to keep people from viewing it.

In fact that was part of the point.

[carmine mirage]

I get it, no problem. I was just thinking from a perspective of people who are playing the game the right way may not want to get their minds contaminated with what they can stand to gain from doing this. I am happy to share this with anyone as I have shared with multiple people multiple times.

The main point I was ultimately trying to make before was the fact that there's a particular spot where the guards won't be alerted to your presence and from there it is just a matter of killing/looting them with zero risk. This spot is easy to get to and part of the "exploit" is being able to get there even though you have to essentially walk past the guards in plain view, they won't engage you. We're not talking about your average mill of the run raid here were you attack the FOB in a coordinated effort and are able to loot the guards that way. We are referring to a sort of "glitch" in the system were you are able to accomplish all these things without alerting a single guard.

I get where Nomad is coming from, thinking we're just simply referring to attacking the FOB and winning, this is completely different and those who know about this, know it's cheap/exploitative and just not how the system is meant or suppose to work.

[nimble sleet]

Yes, I'm aware of the spot, and a almost worthy spot I discovered while testing this thought process after looking into this thread, I agree it's turbo-scuffed and goes against the spirit of Joint Ops.

[carmine mirage]

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of attacking the FOB and winning even on PvE. However this spot needs to be addressed/fixed.

[raven spade]

Would changing the aggro coverage be enough or do you figure tweaking FOB AI is also needed?

[nimble sleet]

Mortars being more accurate.

[carmine mirage]

Mortars, the guards aggro behavior, night time concealment even while standing directly in front of the flood lights. There's a lot because it's not just the guards you're planinng on killing, it's the wall guards, it's the rooftop guards, it's the guards on patrol. None of them react to you.

They don't react to you on the way to this spot or once you get there.

[bold tangle]

I don't think this would help - as it would largely result in bombing your own FOB.

[raven spade]

Back in 0.1 I went up a mountain with a mosin and sniped some guards from max render distance, didn't move fast enough and got hit by the very first mortar.

[nimble sleet]

Ive never been hit by em in testing....so....no clue

[subtle leaf]

If guards were positioned at the end of the drive, and there were roving patrols so you can't camp them from safety, this could potentially be acceptable. Guard behavior would have to be adjusted significantly though.

[carmine mirage]

One of the main contributing factors is during night you can stand on the main street right in front of the minefield even under the dagone streetlight and the guards won't engage you.

This is what allows you to get to the next phase of the exploit.

[nimble sleet]

Just dont engage them there, those snipers'll getcha XD

[carmine mirage]

True, but they really should be able to see from there. It shouldn't take you having to fire your weapon or run around like a damn maniac to get their attention.

[nimble sleet]

They probably do see you, but dont fire immediately

[carmine mirage]

You might be right, it may have something to do with the "engagement distance" becuase there have been times in other areas where I can tell an AI has seen me, but for whatever reason doesn't open fire.

[subtle leaf]

the wall is less than 80 meters from the road, the tower less than 100. They should see you instantly.

[raven spade]

Well, at that point you aren't posing a threat if you have not fired, and being just some other PMC you aren't inherently hostile as far as lore goes.

I think it's potentially an interesting concept that perhaps a player might want to interact with another faction peacefully, but games being games and gamers being gamers I'm not sure where that would/should go. Mission where you return something/someone lost for reward? IDK

[carmine mirage]

During the daytime, they'd immediately shoot at you in these same locations.

But I get that point and I actually would love to see it play out out that way. Maybe they shout a warning at you and if you continue to proceed, then they open fire.

[raven spade]

I haven't been to an opposing FOB since 0.1, so IDK if anything has changed. I just remember that I could approach, but only so far before they had enough of me. And that was my thought at the time, like the Borg from Star Trek, if I'm not a threat I can mill about outside peacefully, but take one step too far and I'm now a threat.

And I like that.

I haven't tried to find this specific exploit area you guys are talking about, but will say that I'd like to see them not aggro from max possible distance unless a threat is present.

[carmine mirage]

Standing on that main road now during the daytime, guards and mortars will engage you. At night time they won't unless you make yourself known by firing or jumping around.

At night time they only engage you/mortar you about 1/4 up that main road to the front gate

[raven spade]

Bummer, we used to be able to walk most of the way up the driveway(?). 😦

[carmine mirage]

Definitely was a step in the right direction to combat this particular exploit, but doesn't look like it was enough because obviously it's still possible.

[bold tangle]

AI have 100% IFF detection both with sight and sound. It's a delicate balance.

Like, if you're walking around FN and there's an AI in a building with no windows, they'll know without doubt you're not one of the dozens of friendlies through some magical aura.

[raven spade]

Sorry, I should have said that I'd like to see them not aggro until the player presents as a threat. In theory that could tie in with the keybind to lower weapon that some people wanted added a while back. Keep your gun down and you can deliver a package, bring your gun up or glass anyone and you get laid out. It could be fairly tense in PvEvP, not as much in PvE. But people being gamers and life not mattering of course there is no incentive to not shoot, so people would ruin that.

[nimble sleet]

You can prone crawl at night and they wont see ya if not alerted

[carmine mirage]

Which is ridiculous and a part of the problem, I mean here you are prone crawling up the main street with absolutely no cover either directly underneath the streetlight or right in front of the damn floodlight and they still won't see you.

[subtle leaf]

I'm going to politely disagree, if armed personnel walked up to to my FOB with out prior warning when 99% of traffic is airborne, I would be very god dam suspicious.

[raven spade]

Suspicious for sure, snipers and MGs getting horny, but that doesn't mean opening up until a threshhold crossed or guns pointed. Also we don't have a way to notify FOB in advance.

[subtle leaf]

I think in cannon we are practically always in communication with out FOB though, we do have the issued cell phone I'm always pulling out to check the weather or latest email, you know, what ever illegal shit Handjob wants us to do.

[coral hinge]

Welp they defo need to hotfix that lmao

[fierce fable]

Jesus Christ people here safekeeping dangerous knowledge so that people don't exploit a pve mode and "ruin the economy"

This must be immediately removed from the game, because I have no self control and will relentlessly farm the enemy base and then complain that I have too much high end gear.

[coral hinge]

ngl i already wormed my way in the enemy base and messed about for a bit lol

[fierce fable]

Fun was detected and as such must be immediately patched out

[fierce fable]

I mean, you can do this whether they drop gear or not.

But people here are up in arms about getting gear possibly too early in a pve game.

I have yet to hear an explanation as to what cosmic forces are compelling OP and others to raid enemy bases. They should be free to refrain from this if they don't want the gear.

[coral hinge]

Yea but being able to loot a decked out DDR4 or a sig from just using a meme AK is preety wild lol

[fierce fable]

It's really taking the piss when talking about "avoiding contaminating people's minds" bloody hell.

Some people need to touch grass.

[coral hinge]

I mean i saw this thread and then gave it a go lol

[fierce fable]

For sure, but who cares? You got some gear at low risk in pve.

[coral hinge]

That then can be taken into pvp

Thats prob the whole reason people no like

[fierce fable]

Yea, that's a problem, but that's a separate problem.

And it's always going to be a problem. I can farm gear trivially in pve and take it to pvp.

[coral hinge]

yup

[fierce fable]

ITT people are rabid about their pve immersion being ruined by something that nobody is forcing them to engage in.

OP is literally about removing drops from guards. Not making it more difficult. Flat out removing them.

[coral hinge]

Oh you see, I couldnt be arsed to read it all lol

[fierce fable]

Instead of fixing the root cause, which is that equipment is shared between pve and pvp

[coral hinge]

Yea but i dont think thats something that will ever change

[fierce fable]

Neither could I, so I was confused why they don't want to fix the root cause of the pvp issue. Then someone pointed out the thread is specifically for pve, which made me even more confused.

[coral hinge]

Well theres 0 risk in doing it in pve lol

[fierce fable]

Yes but the solution then is to make it risky

Not remove the loot

There's zero reason to remove the loot in pve, just make it more risky

[coral hinge]

Yea but how could they, As if you are just going in with a meme AK from an AI you have nothing to lose and being able to spawn at the COP just down the road not worrying about it being overtaken cus its on pve

Felt nice not being bombed by a morta in the first 20 seconds doe lmao

[fierce fable]

My argument yesterday was that I can spawn in to the game after a fresh wipe and take my starter gun to FN airport backside, kill the guards there with basically zero risk and hey presto I have a very good set of plates and m855 ammo and gun.

It's trivial to cheese those guards

They emerge from the gate like a bunch of lemons, you just hang around at the side and pick them off

Zero risk in pve

[coral hinge]

yup

[fierce fable]

And I can do this repeatedly in pve and take the gear to pvp

[coral hinge]

Or be very nice and drop the gear so the other faction and pick it up lol

[fierce fable]

Hence: this whole thread is a misguided attempt at patching the symptom of a much larger problem that won't be solved by removing drops from the fob guards.

[coral hinge]

I mean a solution could be just to enable pvp around the FOB

[fierce fable]

Or just shore up the defenses, or just concentrate on vastly more pressing issues than this?

Ultimately I think MF will be forced to separate the pvp and pve modes

[coral hinge]

Something they will never do as people would be angie

[fierce fable]

Or people just have to accept that pvp is not a tarkov experience, this is not tarkov. Pvp is there as a sort of arena you go to after gearing up in pve.

[coral hinge]

yea but the people wont accept for them to make pve / pvp its own thing they gotta first fix issues with pvp, like using grenades as radar lol

[fierce fable]

Yeah agreed, those are pressing problems

The grenade sonar has to go 😂

[coral hinge]

I think someones camping next to the cop in a bush lemme check real quick

lil nade throw and yup

[nimble sleet]

I'd rather they just patch out the massive immersion break.

Because Joint Operations implies the companies are at least somewhat working together, and the players tend to.

[main grail]

is this the way you get your gear that you sell

[fierce fable]

Again: who cares? Is someone forcing you to engage this mechanic?

Factions are ostensibly killing each other in pvp. In pve, they miraculously can't. Pve is for all intents and purposes a coop game where everyone else is an npc.

If this breaks your immersion, then the fact that nobody can drive cars for example must be making you tear your hair out

Or that you can neck an entire can of lychees in 5 seconds. Or that you can stitch your guts back in with 3 strokes of a needle.

[nimble sleet]

Colossal AI scumbags shootin me for trying to stop by and say hi to my friendly friends in the other factions

[fierce fable]

But they are not your friends, are they? You can't even see them on your map.

Just don't go to their base and meet at the fanny paradise

[main grail]

they are an enemy pmc of course they shoot you

[nimble sleet]

If they weren't friends, I wouldn't be reviving them from comas and prancing through the flower fields shooting the locals with em

[main grail]

when you arrive at there base

[fierce fable]

You can only do this because you joined a pve server

In pvp they'd kill you to death

[nimble sleet]

I am aware, I am fine with it remaining in PvP

[fierce fable]

Ultimately it's a game

Some liberties must be taken

I actually sort of see your point tbh, much more than the "muh pve balance" arguments before

[raven spade]

Only because gamers don't fear death and expect kill-or-be-killed. They don't understand that the vision was PvEvP.

[nimble sleet]

Yes, but when a game tries to put so much lore and story content in, immersion breaking parts due to gameplay oversights are a yikes.

[fierce fable]

That's just human psychology in a gamified environment.

It's never going to change unless the incentives change.

[nimble sleet]

By definition of the PvE mode being called "Joint Operations", having segments of the other PMCs trying to murder us (and us murdering them) is a narrative break

[fierce fable]

If you have a zero risk pve mode with free movement to full on pvp at will, it's always going to be this way. People go into pvp with the intention of fighting other players, not some emergent gameplay of maybe cooperation.

This was in response to the other poster btw

In pvp, you can only lose by trusting potential hostiles. It takes just one player to betray that trust and you'll suddenly be much less incentivized to trust anyone. And if loot is made scarce, that incentive becomes even more lopsided.

[nimble sleet]

Also gonna say something here given my focus on lore and immersion, there is a narrative reason for this! There's no fuel ANYWHERE! Choppers head out-of-country to refuel there.

Our available rotor wing assets also can't really haul fuel resources in bulk into the country.

[fierce fable]

Yeah but, there's a stream of choppers transferring 2-3 pmcs weighing a 100kg all the time

What's stopping them from hauling in barrels of fuel?

Every 15 seconds you have choppers landing at the fob, coming in from off map

[nimble sleet]

The Ravens all fly littlebirds and already have no hold time, carrying a payload does affect their range negatively.

[fierce fable]

Again, what would stop them from bringing in fuel instead of the heavy pmcs

I see what you mean, but this argument has to bear a lot of load imo

[nimble sleet]

I can understand more of a short minute and a half sprint carrying 4 guys totalling about 100 kilos each person than a full run for the heli when...if memory serves, the littlebird has a range on a single tank of gas of around 225-250 nautical miles? Can't remember the exact range, and he is still having to run back for fuel? That'a not a short round trip they are flying.

[bold tangle]

The devs have gone out of their way by making multiple quests that explicitly reinforce "there's no fuel". That's a narrative conceit they're defining for us.

Could some fuel be flown in at some time in the future? Sure. But present state is that everything is dry and it's present state we need to deal with.

[naive siren]

I think the argument was that the mechanic ran contrary to the theme of Joint Operations. If you're a member of Mithras and you go to the LRI base. There will be both player and bot members of LRI there. Some of them you can kill and some of them you can't. You are prevented from killing the players because you're not supposed to kill them in PvE. Should be the same for the other members of the other PMC faction (bots included).

Sure that's "immersion breaking" but that's not the real problem. The biggest problem is the low risk/high reward way of farming the highest end guns and ammunition that can be taken to PvEvP servers. But before you go back to your earlier comments about wanting distinct progression for both game modes, know that the current version of the game allows mainly PvE players to dabble in PvP thereby increasing the PvP player pool. Many of us would not play PvP if we had to start a brand new character.

So, in summary:

• Leaving the exploit in the game breaks immersion
• Leaving the exploit harms the economy and the designed progression path
• Leaving the exploit harms the PvP player experience
• Segregating PvE/PvP gear progression harms PvP player count

Given those points, we argue that it would be healthier for the game to remove this exploit. If you'd like to argue that, I challenge you to explain why leaving the exploit in the game is healthier and better for the game than removing it.

[subtle leaf]

Not to mention, the other guy stated he had used the exploit to farm enough A1 ammo to sell for $500k. That is on the level of the 0.1 duplicate bug.

But sure, having an exploit that allows near infinite free gear and ammo with near zero buy in and risk surely is good for the game.

[carmine mirage]

I mean if you'd like me to reword my reply, I'd be happy to if I could word it in a way that wouldn't upset you or put you off. I'm just coming from a place where I'm not trying explain specifically how it's done or what anyone can stand to gain from it. Just makes the problem more exacerbated, I believe that's a totally reasonable perspective.

[bold tangle]

It's general best practice to not reveal the means to reproduce an exploit publicly.

[coral hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-already-way-too-late-tim-robinson-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson-it's-far-too-late-now-it's-already-far-too-late-gif-4943774439878014374

[subtle leaf]

As long as devs aren't dragging their feet. It has been less than 36 hours.

[simple path]

Ive yet to see the exploit but maybe sounds similar to the duping and grenade exploit of 0.1 if thats the case then hopefully they patch it, if someone is using a exploit to gain top tier weapons and m855a1 that can be taken to PVP then needs to be stopped, we used to raid friendly bases but it was tough and seeing the guards walking out like walking target boards lately is a joke. Even in PVE if you can go and get top tier weapons with a starter kit it devalues the progression and gameplay of PVE, exploiting is still a form of cheating sorry to those who object but I get the feeling that the strongest objectors are ones farming and selling equipment and ammo. Please can we not og back to the days of Level 1 players walking around with kitted out M4's and 1,000,000 bucks in the bank.

[digital nebula]

Hoenstly, if you want an exploit patched the opposite is true. Tell it to everyone and developers will develop a sudden burning need to fix it

[bold tangle]

Sure, but if you don't want people to break into your house you could always just burn it to the ground too.

Just because a solution is expedient doesn't make it good.

[digital nebula]

And how does that analogy apply at all?

Security through obscurity doesn't work, it never has, and it never will

[wind python]

That's not the point.

In my field, it is general considered courtesy to provide the software developer at least 3 months to patch out the exploit before it becomes widespread public knowledge, and thereby abused or taken advantage of by black hats which may cause fundamental damage (be it economic, data integrity, statistical or even infrastructure) depending on the severity of the exploit.

If you straight up give the exploit without warning, then guess what? It's going to get taken advantage of with zero countermeasure in place. That is the nature of black hats, and the whole point of the process.

[digital nebula]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I've been aware of FOB guards being an easy source of good gear since the drop of 0.3, that's about a month now right?

[wind python]

This is basically the process and types of disclosure. While it's geared towards vulnerabilities in cybersecurity, the principles in play are identical.

What is being followed here is the Private/Responsible Disclosure methods.

https://www.infosecurityeurope.com/en-gb/blog/guides-checklists/how-to-disclose-software-vulnerability.html

Going Full Disclosure is literally the "Nuclear Button" for software dev.

[carmine mirage]

They are if you go about it the way it's meant to be done which is a thorough coordinated attack, this particular exploit we're referring to allows you to take a "certain path" in which the player essentially remains invisible to the FOB guards even though you have to walk directly in front of several of them.

There's an incredible amount of confusion surrounding this because people are thinking we're just talking about your average base raid here, this is so far from that it can't be considered anything other than an exploit.

[subtle leaf]

I'm just waiting for the day so I can post my video of it.

[carmine mirage]

Just want to provide an example of how absolutely out of control this is:

[bold tangle]

That's not OK.

[subtle leaf]

People will still defend it.

[bold tangle]

Everyone's entitled to their opinions. Even the bad ones.

[coral hinge]

Lol yea being able to spawn at a Cop two minute run from the enemy FOB, is a meme and u don't gotta worry about it being captured lol

[coral hinge]

Just post it anyways more people that do it, they might actually do something about it

[carmine mirage]

Here we go again:

[digital nebula]

This you?

[carmine mirage]

Nope, but at least they're being nice to everyone else and dropping the excess gear for them, but even still. They're all chinese players.

[digital nebula]

I hate to be racist....but it would be chinese 🤦‍♂️ I wonder what the dollars per hour is on that if you use a friendly player on the faction you are raiding to sell all the goods 🤔

[carmine mirage]

That's exactly what I'm trying to disrupt, but this needs to be patched out as soon as possible.

It's just absolutely out of control.

[digital nebula]

Yeah, it really is kinda fucked

Has anyone asked MFG staff if they intend to patch it?

[carmine mirage]

I reported it on their website about 2 weeks ago, no response.

[digital nebula]

I'll have to wake up at 1-5 am and ask wery

[carmine mirage]

Please.

I mean this is not intended gameplay at all, whatsoever.

[digital nebula]

I'll see if I can remember tonight

[carmine mirage]

It's happening on the same server at Crimson HQ as well.

[coral hinge]

LOL

Saw this shit today on my pve uk server, got the guy killed by standing infront of him with a flashlight but he got back and got his shit, he did drop me a ddr4

I got bored ended up going to the enemy FOB and getting in their base, its way to easy at night like my god the AI are legit blind

[bold tangle]

Best thing you can do to disrupt it is “break their ability to easily respawn”.

[carmine mirage]

Cap the nearest cops.

It'll stop them dead in their tracks.

[pearl raven]

They doing this on PVE servers?

[bold tangle]

That what the post says.

[digital nebula]

You might actually be able to report this as not only an exploit but a bug 🤔 ai are not supposed to respawn within a certain radius of a player, though I don't know exactly what that radius is

[pearl raven]

LOL oh yeah. I read it like a week ago then just caught up on recent comments :p

[pearl raven]

I've just mentioned it elsewhere, in another discord to make sure they're aware of it and that it gets seen at least. (Maybe we'll get it patched this week with any luck)

[bold tangle]

Pretty sure guards were always meant to be exempt - else how could they ever work in bases while under attack?

[carmine mirage]

If you can't kill players of any of the factions on PvE, you shouldn't be able to kill the guards who are the SAME faction.

[pearl raven]

IMO any of the guards should be unlootable anyway, PVE or PVP. Its too easy to get decent weapons, ammo etc from COPs.

[coral hinge]

Can't pve they share lol

Best way I have fucked with them is flashlights and smokes

Guards shoot through at em

[carmine mirage]

You can block their shots as well and the AI will drop them.

[coral hinge]

Ye that too

[carmine mirage]

Just stand in front of them.

[coral hinge]

Imagine all they need todo to temporarily fix it is just to remove the ai lol

[pearl raven]

Prob not that simple tbh.

[coral hinge]

I mean they removed the ones at cops on pve

[pearl raven]

Aye, that's my point. COPs are a recent addition, FOBs have been around for longer than the game. It's likely very different code. COP guards were likely built that way from the ground up, where FOB guards aren't.

It's not going to be a button you push to turn on or off NPCs at set POI's.

[coral hinge]

They pretty much act the same both ai are brain dead but true

[bold tangle]

It should be little more than a line or two config change to either make them invulnerable or unlootable in PvE.

[pearl raven]

Yeah, that's genuinely now how game development works. Sorry mate. This could take a month or a week to fix.

[bold tangle]

I’m aware how dev cycles work and how long they can take.

But I wasn’t speaking to time to delivery. I was speaking to complexity.

And if they want to deploy a patch scoped to just a single change, it’s a lot easier to test and push through their pipeline.

[pearl raven]

Mate, I agree with you that this is a larger issue than people think and needs to be addressed, but it's not quite as simple a fix as you're suggesting.

[bold tangle]

Sure it is.

They already have the ability to make guards unlootable because that’s enabled for your own guards. Just add that flag unconditionally in PvE.

They already have the ability to make guards unkillable because that applies to your guards. Just add that flag unconditionally in PvE.

It should actually streamline their configs.

[earnest summit]

This needs to happens I once came back to bad to find two players from another faction one sniping the other within the wall killing the guards and dropping the loot for two friendly pmcs. Very cheap way of getting gear to then use in PvP or sell and make money without really doing anything.

Within a PvE server*

[coral hinge]

Ye its stupidly easy todo lol

[charred mountain]

On this one its a 600% agree it shouldn’t just not be a thing🔥🙏🏽

[earnest summit]

Making guards not lootable across the board in PvE will stop the exploitation of it. Really no point of it being in PvE. There are already no guards at COPs in PvE probably for this same reason. So just make FOB guards either not lootable or unkillable.

[carmine mirage]

I mean if you can't kill faction PMCs, why are you able to kill the faction guards, they're still part of that same faction you're specifically prohibited from attacking.

[simple path]

Capping doesn’t convert cops away from a faction it only makes it available for your faction as well as any other factions who have capped it in pve im sure

[carmine mirage]

We're referring to the FOBs here, not the COPs.

Capping the nearest COP they're using to respawn to raid the FOB is what can stop them from being able to do so.

[simple path]

This was in response to the comment of flipping the nearest cop to stop them.

“Cap the nearest cops.”

[carmine mirage]

You cannot spawn at a COP that isn't controlled by your faction so capping it prevents them from being able to use it as a repspawn point while raiding the FOB.

[bold tangle]

they can always run back, but at a certain point it becomes too annoying to bother.

[simple path]

Yes but in pve when you flip it it doesn’t fully flip??? It becomes available for you but in pve it remains available to the other faction as well, that’s why no matter what faction you play it always looks like you’ve got all the cops flipped

[bold tangle]

I’m always watching the map to make sure my starter COPs are owned by us.

[simple path]

If been and flipped a cop in front of another faction and they still
Said it was blue on their map

[carmine mirage]

In PvE, unless your faction controls the cop you cannot use it as a respawn point. If a cop is controlled by another faction, you can still cap it, all you have to do is interact with the laptop. There's no universal control for all factions.

[simple path]

Test it out, ever wondered why your faction controls the majority of cops? Always ever seen a cop go from blue to purple in pve? Honestly I have flipped a cop from purple in front of another faction and they still had it as under their control on their map

[wind python]

Then it's only for you then.

For everyone else, this works as intended, and you can't spawn at COPs your faction doesn't own.

[carmine mirage]

I've never experienced that.

If that is occuring, sounds like a bug.

[simple path]

I’ve teamed up with opposing factions and both have the same cop under control at the same time unless they have changed it last patch, but honestly no matter what faction you play the majority of cops are blue after a certain time how does that happen if opposing factions are flipping them away from you.

[simple path]

I think it’s intended in pve as to allow factions to have access to cops as with no PvP they are just a respawn point after a while. I would like to see cops reset after a time in pve and loot boxes only respawn after the reset

But that’s another thread

[carmine mirage]

I'm not so sure about that, I mean what would be the point in having them show up as purple then if it didn't matter. Also if that is the case, it allows players to basically run around the map getting free experience with 0 risk, I mean so long as another faction took the point from AI, that's 50 free experience for you every cop which can easily rack up to 600-700xp. Doesn't sound right, but your right for another thread.

[simple path]

All I’m saying besides annoying them with smoke light and getting in their way there isn’t much you can do to stop them hope they patch it soon

[carmine mirage]

Flashbanging works to as far as I know, but blocking their shots has worked the best.

[simple path]

Yep but once it’s flipped it stays flipped until server reset from my experience it’s a hangover from a PvP mechanic shoehorned into pve, they should reset the cops after say 60 minutes, loot boxes only respawn and Ai respawns after the cop is reset, and you should get no xp for flipping a cop from purple in PVE

[carmine mirage]

I know for a fact everytime I've captured a purple cop, I've gotten the notification that I received 50 experience.

[simple path]

In pve purple seems to mean that your faction hasn’t set up comms to the cop more than controls it, purple means ai are taken out but you need to set up comms not sure if that’s intended but kinda how it plays at present

[simple path]

Yep and that’s a broken gameplay mechanic you get 150 for a major cop, I’m sure this will change down the line sorry for high jacking as they need to stop the exploit for sure

[simple path]

Sorry mate just read my previous answer and made no sense🤣 just edited to convey what I actually meant

[carmine mirage]

Player Remains Undetected Bypassing Enemy HQ Security at Night
[Enemy detection system] is experiencing [a bug allowing players to remain undetected] when [players crawl up the main road to an enemy faction's HQ at night], resulting in [players being able to bypass security measures completely]

[nimble sleet]

I've noticed that crawling through the gate gets you insta-gibbed.

[carmine mirage]

Through the gate absolutely.

[hidden dune]

Wait, are you saying that instead of letting more players know about this thing to raise awareness pressuring the developers into fixing this issue, you're actively ruining the gaming experience of PVE players who willingly share loots with you? Why would you do that? Bullying other players in PVE mode clearly won’t solve the problem.

[carmine mirage]

@digital nebula Any luck contacting wery about this?

[digital nebula]

They've been doing team building exercises this week unfortunately

Not sure how long other than a couple days

[pearl raven]

I've posted it in an unofficial discord where a lot of them hang out. They're aware of it.

[coral hinge]

Most dented take of 2025

[bold tangle]

@carmine mirage any eyes on the hotfix branch?

I’m traveling for work, so I can’t test - but possibly worth verifying and raise the issue there if it’s still unpatched?

[carmine mirage]

Checking right now.

[carmine mirage]

I was just engaged on the main road and mortars are firing. At first glance, it appears to be fixed!

Looks like we're all good, I can't even get half way up the road anymore without being engaged crouching or crawling.

Trying to verify if changes were made, but even without that like I said I couldn't even get a quarter way up the street.

When you get a chance, try for yourself so we can get a double take on it.

Remember to be fully hydrated/fed otherwise the noise your character makes can aggro the guards as well throwing off the result.

[bold tangle]

Earliest I’ll have access to my PC is this weekend. But I like what I’m hearing.

[subtle leaf]

This is on the experimental branch?

[carmine mirage]

Yes, test it out if you can.

[subtle leaf]

I'll give it a shot. I'll see if the guys I play with can replicate it at all.

[subtle leaf]

I'm not sure that the servers are representing the in game time correctly. I had a crash and the in game time was around 1200 or 1400, when I got back on it was 0700 again. Same server and all that.

If that is the case I don't think we can be sure that it is fixed.

[subtle leaf]

@carmine mirage @bold tangle @naive siren video is compiling, it will be in your dm's soon. Short of it is it is not fixed.

Ok, I managed to delete it somehow, I'll try and record again, but it wasn't fixed.

[subtle leaf]

Did it again. Video will be up shortly.

[carmine mirage]

That's incredibly unfortunate, I must have been raiding during the day even though it was the middle of the night.

[naive siren]

https://tenor.com/bVG8n.gif

[carmine mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/inigo-montoya-you-killed-my-father-prepare-to-die-my-name-is-inigo-montoya-princess-bride-gif-16786490

[carmine mirage]

On the Asian servers, it's basically a nightly event at every HQ.

[coral hinge]

yup

[pearl raven]

Are you taking the time to report the accounts in game?

[nimble sleet]

How would this be reportable?

[pearl raven]

They're exploiting unintended game mechanics. It's still an exploit. Same as the duping cash in 0.1

It was made clear in 0.1 that it was a bannable offence..the message may still be pinned.

[fierce fable]

Nobody is getting banned for this, it may be unintended, but nothing close a dupe exploit. Y'all need to touch some grass...

[bold tangle]

I doubt people are going to get banned for this specific exploit - but it's def an exploit.

You're at least "playing the game" to some degree. And this isn't going to cause the same sort of potential database problem that we were looking at with duping.

[digital nebula]

The initial enactment of avoiding agro by crawling forward is an exploit, but most of the issue isn't an exploit

[bold tangle]

It's obviously similar, but hugely important how you're unseen collecting the loot as well.

Without that, you get nothing.

[pearl raven]

"Nobody is getting banned" till someone gets banned. Then it's all "WHY DID YOU BAN ME, YOU DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY TELL ME DIRECTLY EVEN THOUGH ITS IN THE STEAM TERMS AND CONDITIONS I ACCEPTED"

[fierce fable]

We must immediately and without delay

[pearl raven]

I've had confirmation that 2 asian players i reported were "reprimanded". Not sure how, but tbh i hope it's a ban.

I'm reporting anyone i see, but im not playing much right now. i've gone back to tarkov now im out of quests.

[coral hinge]

Just reset anyones account doing it kekw

[fierce fable]

They were probably told to cut it out lol

But I hope you also notified the Pope and the President because this is blasphemy and high treason and must not go unpunished!

[pearl raven]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[subtle leaf]

Dang brother, how much of this have you done yourself, no need to defend it so hard.

[pearl raven]

Enough to be worried about getting banned. I'm gonna be keeping an eye out for him now. Lol

[naive siren]

I dunno. I'm with @bold tangle on this one. I doubt we're going to see bans for this. It's an exploit, but like he says you're still "playing the game to a degree." There's still some risk involved and you can only really get away with what you can carry.

It's a problem, but I think @fierce fable is just pointing out how silly it is to get out the pitchforks every time we see someone doing it.

It's a problem that MadFinger is aware of and eventually they will fix it. In the meantime, if you want some easy M855A1 or a nice DDM4 for the cost of some extra time and rounds, it's not breaking the game.

Now, if it was widespread and every time you logged in at night this was happening at every FOB on the map, yeah, it would be something to get irritated about.

It's not like we're seeing streamers promote this type of thing like we were the Contrast bs.

[fierce fable]

Amen - this is a voice of reason here. Clearly it's unintended behavior, it's not great long term for the PVP side and given they aren't going to separate PVP and PVE, something needs to be done. But people campaigning here and going BAN THE HERETICS! is a bit silly

Some nolifers are farming it, but you really need to be a nolifer to do it, it's extremely boring and doesn't really hurt the faction in question at least.

I think anyone sane who doesn't play 12 hours a day will maybe spend 30 minutes to figure out how to do it, do it a couple of times, have a laugh about the pile of corpses at the FOB and then resume doing much more fun activities in the game.

If someone figured out a way to raid enemy FOBs in pvp with no risk and oppress enemy factions with impunity, that'd be pitchfork worthy and then the ban hammers could come out.

Last time I did this with some friends, we didn't even take anything just dumped all the loot on the ground for the local faction to take, who hoovered it all up and had a laugh.

[slender crypt]

im confused, whats this post about?

I never really saw any guards at FOBs

in pve*

[carmine mirage]

I really don't see anyone calling for bans or even punishment for this other than 1 person, the majority of us just want the situation fixed. My main concern are the people farming x30,000+ rounds and then selling them on the black market for $1,000,000s, one of the main reasons I started offering the A1 and DDM4 at ridiculously low prices to try and combat this. I could really care less if your average joe went and raided for a nice DDM4 and x100/x200 rounds of A1, but we're not seeing that and if you've spent anytime on the Asian servers you'd quickly see this is a nightly event on most server instances, it definitely happens more often than not and I'm just not sure that any of us are really in a position to say whether it's affecting overall gameplay or the economy, but we do all know it's at least an issue needing resolving.

[slender crypt]

oh you are talking about base camp AI

[coral hinge]

ye

[bold tangle]

Yes, the FOB.

The other camps are COPs (combat outposts).

[pearl raven]

Agreed on pitchforks. Im actually telling people how to do it so it gets patched faster. Less chance of edge case bans too if everyones doing it.

[naive siren]

I highly doubt they'll be issuing bans unless they've pre-warned people

It's not like people are breaking a TOS

[pearl raven]

Those market sellers are literally the only issue i have with it tbh.

[pearl raven]

That's down to interpretation and MFG, it technically can be seen as a TOS violation though.

[waxen spade]

If it's deemed an exploit it would be, also if that's the case @pearl raven spreading said exploit (if deemed so) would also have action taken against in some cases. As mentioned though Devs are aware so only time will tell what they deem it as and how they approach it.

[pearl raven]

Indeed, you're 100% correct. But they're either going to ban a few people or not ban everyone.

[waxen spade]

I just think people are taking it absurdly too far with the pitchforks in a pre alpha. The main thing is they are aware, other than that we're just playing the waiting game.

[bold tangle]

The main reason we had bans with duping is because it was having a negative impact on the servers and performance. They needed people to stop doing it and there was a lot of work that needed to happen to get it fully buttoned up. So a real deterrant with teeth was needed.

[waxen spade]

Yes that's a good point, causing server stability issues. I'm not sure how much strain if any this issue is causing but I've seen places piled with bodies and not hearing people complain of lag and such.

[pearl raven]

I can't imagine it's anything like the last issue, if anything it's only going to apply to people with lower end machines i'd imagine.

[bold tangle]

If people take it to an incredible extreme, it could cause some localized lag - but that's likely going to require a ton of effort.

Consider the body piles in the MS lobby and hallway we see. That's fairly comparable in most cases.

[pearl raven]

Personally, it's just kinda killed the rest of the wipe for me. There's no point playing to trade on the market or do PVP because both things are stacked against anyone who's not doing it.

Takes a long time to grind out a whole box of 855a1 normally and the game already has some balance issues that I'm not the biggest fan of so there's no point in me wiping and starting again.

Luckily there is a Tarkov wipe soont hough.

[subtle leaf]

You know, another way that it can be fixed is just giving the FOB guards M855 and 16" barrels, no 60 round mags, and only 9" MCX's.

It would just completely neuter any reason to farm them, while still maintaining a reasonable level of lethality for the guards.

[torn aspen]

Just give them stock sks XD

[carmine mirage]

I really don't believe any of us are being overly dramatic about it like I said no one here is calling for bans or even punishment, I know I'm certainly not going on any reporting sprees filing abuse reports over players I see doing it. I do feel though it is important to continue to post on its ongoing abuse.

[torn aspen]

It must kinda rare cause I've been playing for about 60 hours a day so far never seen this happens 🙃

But I'm assuming this is an easy fix of just make the guards immortal or something XD

[carmine mirage]

It's certainly a lot more common on the Asian servers from my experience and like I said it doesn't happen across every server instance every night, but it does occur and I've been witness to it occuring on the same server at multiple HQ's.

[torn aspen]

Ah fair enough

Not sure i see the point of doing this cause don't all the weapon they drop you can just buy?

[carmine mirage]

The ammo you can't buy and all of the DDM4 weapon attachments cannot be bought most importantly the 20" barrel.

[torn aspen]

Oh damn never mind I know see why people do it XD
Just the ammo and 20 barrels would be worth it 👌

[carmine mirage]

Not to mention it's very easy to walk away with 10+ 60 rounders in a single raid.

Granted you can buy those, but not in the quantity that you can raid for.

[torn aspen]

Damn

[carmine mirage]

Just that fact alone is relevant to use in whether it offsets a particular balance in what the vendors offer with their limited stock.

[bold tangle]

You'd still need to fix the underlying exploit because remember that this is something you can do on day 1 with effectively zero equipment and risk.

And you don't want day 1 people running around with more 855 than they know what to do with.

[subtle leaf]

Yes, and people would still probably do it for the MCX and .300 AP so that would need to be taken away also, but it would be much less worthwhile.

[pearl raven]

It's the ammo they want

[bold tangle]

This patch addresses numerous community-reported issues across gameplay, AI respawn, animations, rendering, UI, and includes several technical fixes.

Ok, maybe 0.3.3.0 gets us there.

[carmine mirage]

I was upset to see nothing about it as well.

[bold tangle]

If they're going after "exploity stuff", then you don't specifically call that out because then people rush to exploit before the patch lands on live servers.

"community-reported issues" is as good a way to label this issue as any.

[subtle leaf]

I'm downloading the test branch now, I'll update in a bit.

[subtle leaf]

It is still not fixed. No recording this time, but same as before.

[pearl raven]

They're not going to fix it this wipe.

[subtle leaf]

It does not look like it.

[subtle leaf]

Did anyone catch them saying fixing "night exploits"?

At about minute 33 or so

[carmine mirage]

I haven't had a chance to watch it, but I would assume if that's what they said, that could be the only thing they were referring to.

[carmine mirage]

I'm confident that's at least one part of what they were referring to having just watched it.

[pearl raven]

https://tenor.com/view/roy-kent-fingers-crossed-wish-me-luck-good-luck-need-luck-gif-17815962975590686180

[nimble sleet]

So what I did.

It's funny, but the effort to enjoyment is extremely one sided.