PVP rewarding system?

[royal thistle]

honestly i dont know, what you guys do not like about it. :D the leaderboard would not force you to pvp in any way possible. On the other hand, if you are strictily pve players and your PMC wins, you will get extra reward which you didnt have to move a finger for.

[vestal tusk]

The problem is you're now incentivising PvP hunting and rewarding kills, which is against the whole principle of "organic PvP".

In addition, you'd also be incentivising toxicity via ego ("I'm the top of the leaderboard, he got there by cheating etc." BS) and to top that off, you're then going to have the PvP crowd screaming that PvE players shouldn't get a look in for having done nothing.

Nobody wins.

[swift peak]

Yep. Not the kinda game for it.

[royal thistle]

Then it could atleast count the captured outposts? Their whole purpose was to make pvp more frequent.

[digital topaz]

This isn't COD you want stat hunting this isn' t the game for that

[royal thistle]

and im not even talking about ground zero, which is going to be in the game literally to push PvP.

[royal thistle]

I don´t need stats hunting. The leaderboard doesent have to be public. It can just ocassionaly reward the faction which won without anyone knowing who did what.

all im saying is, that in the current state of game, pvp is not rewarding. You wipe a squad, they all have the same gear which is not even that expensive if you are already atleast in mid game and have money, then they literally run to you naked with m4s, you manage to kill them and the cycle continues. I get the point of organic PvP, but in the current state of game (yes i know it is an alhpa) i really do not have any reason to fight PvP and might aswell just avoid them.

[median parrot]

I don’t think Ground Zero is there to push PvP. It’s where the highest tier gear will be but also where the npc enemies will be the toughest. Especially given that this game is based off the same book the stalker games are based off of. Will there be PvP there? Yes of course. But it isn’t there to push PvP.

[royal thistle]

Alright, lets think about what you just said. It is going to be the zone with highest tier gear. Who wants the highest tier gear? Most of the people. Who is going to go there? Everyone. What does it do? Push PVP

[violet basin]

Yeah, the only ones who currently know what's going to be in Ground Zero are the developers. We don't really know what the real endgame is going to be yet.

I do think the idea has merit, but rather than solely a PvP related leaderboard, I think the leaderboard should also include AI kills, loot crates opened, COP transitions, tasks completed, etc.

Something to make the factions compete (which is part of the lore) would be beneficial and drive pride in your faction of choice.

[vestal tusk]

The other thing is this would rely on factions being balanced - right now, with the massive imbalance between them, one faction will always come out on top if it's solely off of the PvP numbers.

[swift peak]

and the OP is part of that faction

[royal thistle]

finally a reasonable feedback, thanks.

[violet basin]

I think it's a decent suggestion, but it just shouldn't be focused on PvP and @vestal tusk brings up a good point that it will have to be balanced. Maybe a scoring system where the score is weighted by how many players of which faction were logged on for the time period.

In the end, I think this is probably something that we'll see much later in development around the time we get to 1.0

[royal thistle]

i agree, even if it includes AI kills, crates opened, let the factions compete for rewards.

But you will never be able to balance factions in such game. Thats why faction with less people would get %+ calculated of the disadvantage that less players in the faction gives them.

[violet basin]

This could also organically drive seasoned players to help out new players like they already do, but now they have a reason to ensure the newer members of their faction know how to play the game and play it well, because their faction member's performance affects their monthly bonus.

[royal thistle]

And like i mentioned in the original post, i totally understand the game is in alpha state, all im complaining about is pvp not being rewarding in any way.

But i actually liked your idea more, counting NPC kills and crates opened would be better.

Even tho i think theres also a way, make two leaderboards. One for warfare, counting kills and outpost taken and one for joint operations, counting the rest. :D

[violet basin]

Well, the reward is in the gameplay. Here's a video of a creator coming to an understanding that though PvP is part of GzW, it's not the focus and the PvP in itself is it's own reward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX1zB_fbc5s

[little meadow]

Good video there

[royal thistle]

will take a look

i mean, he literally complains about zero reward in pvp aswell.. :D

[violet basin]

watch the whole video

[royal thistle]

20:05 he is pretty much complaining about the same stuff i am

I did, yesterday.

[vestal tusk]

Honestly, I think that in and of itself it something that is often severely overlooked.

A lot of PvP players come in with the expectation it's going to be all action all the time, and actually overlook that the gameplay there is is superb. Once you stop looking for it, you can actually enjoy it.

[royal thistle]

i disagree. let me tell you something. :D

Just yesterday, me and my friend were fighting over Warden outpost. We took it, didnt even have enough time to resupply ammo and the first grenade exploded right next to us. Guess what, an enemy player was trying to take us. He managed to kill my friend, but in the end, i killed him. He was pretty upset which he did let me know in voice. Then, my friend got back to collect his stuff and the guy did come back aswell, literally like 10 secs after, killed my friend again, got killed by me again (it took me a minute cuz i was further away). Then, i decided to run towards his nearby spawn and meet him on his way, so my friend actually does have some time to gain his stuff. I killed him again and we decided its boring (killed him 3 times all i got was M4 with one mag :D) So we got back to nam thaven. Little did we know, he did tag all of my friends things with locator and he was so upset, he kept hunting us in Nam Thaven for 3 HOURS STRAIGT! He always engaged us, got killed, or he killed my friend first, then died and so on and so on. We couldnt really even finish any quests because he was always there. I killed him like 20 times total and what did i get? Nothing, no satisfaction (okay maybe the first 3 times when he was trying to chase us down and i always managed to tap him), no gear, nothing. In fact, it forced us to leave and go play joint in order to make any quests.

Then again, now i know you can just throw all the stuff to storage and wait till the locator turns off, but we didnt know that yesterday.

[violet basin]

That's... actually hilarious. I never thought to use tags like that LOLOL

[royal thistle]

Yea but do you get the point? :D I killed the guy 20 times and got nothing out of it and on top of that, i couldnt even progress in quests.

[dreamy gust]

https://youtu.be/pbAF4xlJ4GA?t=1275

This is already planned.

Though not necessarily as a PvP based leaderboard.

[violet basin]

I mean, trolls are going to troll. You could just have easily hopped on a different Warfare server.

[vestal tusk]

And that's the exact same thing you'd be creating with a PvP system such as you're proposing.

In addition, this is a "mindset" from the player who tagged all the gear to try to force PvP. So all you'd be doing is really encouraging that so kills could be farmed.

[royal thistle]

Nice, thanks! Even the some typ of "competitiveness" not necessarily only PVP would make a huge difference.

[royal thistle]

thats a fair point actually, never thought of that from this perspective :D

we kinda all agreed on a leaderboard being a good idea, thank you for that.

[royal thistle]

unlucky its going to happen in 2027 :D

[swift peak]

sure, but do you think about how it could have ruined whatever he was doing too?

[royal thistle]

he decided to stop making progress so he can have a revange. I did not chose him chasing me around the map for 3 hours straight, thats not the same :D

[violet basin]

You could have also baited the guy hard once you figured out what he was doing. Go have your buddy Drop his gear in the middle of a rice field and camp the thing with an M700, Dragonov or Mosin.

[royal thistle]

like i said, i didnt know how the trackers work till today, thats why my ideas were very limited :D

[violet basin]

I honestly find that level of "dirty" pvp really amusing. I know it's frustrating to play against, but he was using an item in the game for a purpose I never would have thought to do.

I was also watching a streamer the other day that was removing charging handles from other player's guns instead of taking them. So if the guy runs back in naked he gets his gear back, but can't use his rifle 🤣

[vestal tusk]

Or the gas block - more expensive usually.

[heady wind]

How do you decide which faction wins? PvP kills? Completing tactical objectives?

[heady wind]

I had a similar idea I put into practice last night, I took his charging handle and his backpack, his carrier wasnt big enough for his gun, which I left on the ground.

I then ripped all the rounds from nearby dead AI

[violet basin]

https://tenor.com/bih7Q.gif

[fringe basin]

https://tenor.com/view/independence-day-independenceday-speech-aliens-gif-10034914

[little meadow]

The gas block is another good option to take.

[heady wind]

It is, but at the time my idea for stealing charging handles was to give to a friend that he himself couldn't buy, gas blocks didnt seem as important lol

Just needed to disable the weapon

[vestal tusk]

Both options work, but you can buy 6 different types of M4 charging handle (removing them from AK's does nothing). Ripping the gas block means they have to buy the vendor limited JPGS or the shite CQA1 right now.

[little meadow]

For sure, but if you are trying to disable the weapon, gas blocks are great because the best one for an M4 platform is limited for 4 per reset, and if its a sweaty pvp server that will piss them off even more.

[vestal tusk]

SNAP! 😂

[heady wind]

Well, yeah I know about AK gas blocks being the important part, but I have yet to find a Player with an AK that wasnt ripped off an AI lol

Buuuut thats a good idea to rip the gas blocks off to piss people off

[little meadow]

ah yes, the true pvp "any guns will do" chads

[heady wind]

I mean

Any gun will do

In damn near any config.

(I HAVE STANDARDS, IM NOT LEAVING AN AK WITHOUT A DUST COVER)

[vestal tusk]

Thats true, but I do kinda like disabling M4's I come across by pulling the hardest to replace piece - the CQA1 gas block provides negative stats and with the low vendor limit, they either have to buy a whole new gun or wait 2 hours laughs

[heady wind]

Yeah I see now

[little meadow]

If I'm running an ak, I'm gonna run it without a dust cover because vibes

[heady wind]

Im gonna take a hacksaw to it till it reaches 50% durability

[little meadow]

Notch the barrel to count kills

[heady wind]

I better be able to sell it for at least an extra dozen energy drinks per notch you had on it

[obtuse kite]

No incentivising pvp hunting in Warfare ? ? When people play quests and loot runs in joint op because you don't risk to be killed and looted,
as people don't want to split progression,
why ? If not to be able to just come in Warfare with their PMC to have pvp

As I see the game actually , amazing game but joint op is less risk medium reward, warfare more risk same reward .
Imagine being a PMC and Gunny offers you 3k to do a mission in cooperation with 3 allied factions in joint op And in Warfare he offers you these same 3k but he tells you that you will have 2 others factions full of PMC that would try to kill you lmao

What do you win by completing the task in Warfare if not glory and respect of being a crazy man .. So at least as @royal thistle said give a little glory sign of this respect not about just killing people but playing the game in Warfare

[little meadow]

The issue with Warfare, as a few others and I see it, is that most people don't take MFG's expectation into account. They (MFG) see Warfare as a PvEvp mode, with emphasis exactly like that. There is a potential for pvp, not a near guarantee of it. Many streamers focus so hard on the pvp side of this game that their viewers don't even know that most people that do play the game, play it mostly or solely in Joint Ops. In some of their earliest promotional materiel they showed players declining pvp intentionally. It is supposed to reflect that in real life when two different PMC groups meet there is a tension between them, as there would be with any two armed groups, but the goal is to complete their objectives which may not be mutually exclusive. You don't have to shoot everyone you see, and MFG has said this is what they envisioned the game to be.

[obtuse kite]

Sadly, when people hear a silencer shot, they run straight to it to sandwich the player between his quests and AI and them.. 😂

[dreamy gust]

Makes me wonder how they're gonna try to minimize engaging on sight.

[obtuse kite]

Off-topic but an addition that would be nice to upset what I just said, would be to add shots fired from npcs (making them training for army, having fun shooting some cans for others ..) later in the game, deploy some military npc convoy in the map, By helicopter it could create a doubt about the presence or not of Pmc and prevent people from rushing the lz when earing chopper non allied coming
Also By roads make them fight between them to create shots that can also create doubt of Pmc presence . Idk just an idea

Just want to prevent people from rushing player and stick to the pve vp.. As my main suggestion of splitting progression is Not suitable for these people

[forest raven]

Is winning over other players and getting their loot not rewarding enough, so we need dick measuring table? 🤣

[vestal tusk]

Don't think you can easily - "shoot first, ask later" is so baked into the PvP mindset after decades, most players don't even consider "should I fire?" before pulling the trigger.

It'd be an absolute pig of a problem to address, even if they tried.

[swift peak]

this will never ever work longterm

people will eventually learn to distinguish the shots and events from organic and artificial

You can already have a pretty good idea of where an enemy heli will land based on its flight path and how loud the brakes are

[violet basin]

I'm curious how much this might change as we get deeper into 0.3

The current complaint is that if you kill someone, they respawn and get back to you "too quickly."

It'll be interesting to see how that impacts the way players view starting PvP as we move forward. Maybe you don't want to open fire because that's going to set off a chain reaction that'll lead to 2 hours of back and forth and neither of you make any progress. Maybe you decide to let the other player go because you're more concerned with progressing tasks.

[obtuse kite]

Tell me friends if you rushed the game and the sellers lvl 4, if you made your job in solo joint ops anyway...
what will interest you in an inventory of a PMC that you just killed? Literally nothing imo so stop telling me that pvp objective is for looting ..

[swift peak]

You have no idea what somebody may be carrying

[fringe basin]

It's hardly the gear that interests me, it's the cash I can sell it for that is for me at least.

And or the adrenaline rush of killing someone, that to.

[swift peak]

You may need water and they have that, they might have loot they picked up, you take their gun, or they may have a sight on their gun you like

[obtuse kite]

m4 silencer grips scope , rpc Helmet IIIa+,

I don't even try to loot PMC i killed because I risk more being killed and loose time for my quest than I could find and sell for 3k

[dreamy gust]

I don't loot PMCs often, and if I do I grab their gun or plate carrier (if it's III++)

And that's just so I can scavenge parts since I run AK-74s and Krinks instead of M4s.

[obtuse kite]

What cash ? 0.25X The cash you can grab playing 15mn in a tiger bay cash run ?

[fringe basin]

And or the adrenaline, that to.

Feels good killing someone, that's enough for me. The cash is really a bonus.

[obtuse kite]

You're right Gray zone warfare game is insanely awesome and have huge potential, making a kill and survive is enough for me too but economy system with Pvp promoted as a way to make money is completely off the mark as you can go in joint ops with your warfare PMC to make YouTube ez loot run tutorial
Pvp is here only to have fun so why you all disagree with rewarding this if it can bring some pleasure to pvp players , don't you want the game to succeed having more success with PVP players and streamers?

[vestal tusk]

Honestly, I don't mind one way or the other - the problem is that PvP mindset I spoke of earlier, which saps the fun from everything and all semblance of tactics when it's a bullet hose fest.

Rewarding that is just self reinforcing, and not something I would want to see personally.