so as title suggests, make it so that parts give different ergonomics for different people. That would mean not having a meta and people having to look for themselves. Would be more realistic as well because my gun doesnt fit my friend and vice versa, everyone likes something different.
#Make ergonomics and similar stats random.
faint fjord
main cliff
Hard pass. Everyone builds guns to their specs as it is, and throwing RNGJesus into the mix will screw that entire system into the ground and make balance impossible.
faint fjord
how would it make balance impossible? the base list of stats could stay the same, just throw the 30/8/7 stat on an rk-6 for some and rk-2 for others
gilded echo
How would you determine what ergonomic benefit a particular part would give to any certain player. Are we going to need to chose like an archetype during character creation or how would that work?
fallen sparrow
This sounds like it would need to be tied to player level, not gun stats. And even then, hard pass. Same numbers for everyone is balance. Balance is good.
steel oxide
It would kinda suck to have created your character and started playing only to organically discover(gain levels/find gear) that the RNG rolls during creation were bad and your character sucks compared to everyone else. I get that it's real life, but this is just a game featuring identically built PMCs.
main cliff
how would it make balance impossible? the base list of stats could stay the same...
If you buy an RK-6, then it should be the same stat benefit and loss. If your RK-6 just happens to roll a lower RNG during it's purchase, then have your buddy with an identical RK-6 just roll higher then how can you balance it against every possible RK-6 in the game? You can't.
Now multiply that across every attachment, every combination of weapon format, across every single player.
That is a nightmare for development, and an absolute no-no as you then can't develop any meaningful stats about weapon performance, player usage or any other metric, since no single weapon will ever be able to be measured against another.
faint fjord
So what i meant by that would be that for example you unlock the rk5 and rk2 at the same level of turncoat. then the rk5 and rk2 would have the same stats overall but for some players the rk2 has more ergo less recoil control and for others its the rk5. so that you always get the same benefits but on a different grip. that would visually change the meta but not stat wise.
and you dont roll it on purchase but on character creation. hell even make it visible. the goal is to visually change the meta so that guns looks vastly different. because irl they do and irl everyone runs different stuff, there is no one fits all. and balancing it would work if you just basically change the visuals for each player a bit
pure crag
That would just shift the problem from "buy rk2" to "buy recoil +20% option"
faint fjord
it wouldnt shift the problem it would change it entirely. because the problem imo is not being able to build the best recoil gun but its that they all look the same eventually
every single ddm4 i picked up this week from pvp looked the same
pure crag
I get where you're coming from, though personally I'd hate having to rebuild every gun I pick up, potentially even having to carry a grip, stock and foregrip in my ass just in case I find a gun I want to use in the wild
faint fjord
i understand what you mean but imo every gun is usable in every state. its just that people strive for the best when they can so they all look the same. if there were no stats shown at all they also would run different stuff altogether and probably wouldnt really notice a difference
hardy agate
every single ddm4 i picked up this week from pvp looked the same
GZW Unique PMC Weapons (Ultimate)
pure crag
on your second point we'd run into another issue at that point, customization only for appearance sake instead of usability
people do tend to build differently depending on the scenario they know they will be encountering, so the meta isn't particularly all enveloping. you wouldn't bring a 20 inch barrel, no weapon handling M4 into YBL for example
you'd have a pref for fast CQB ddm4
faint fjord
GZW Unique PMC Weapons (Ultimate)
lmao it would be so refreshing to have a unique gun when killing someone
hardy agate
lmao it would be so refreshing to have a unique gun when killing someone
I play too much like a bastard for people to kill me often, and the last time I did die...the bastard only took my loose loot lol.
Not my gun, not my helmet, not my headset, nothing.
faint fjord
on your second point we'd run into another issue at that point, customization on...
yes i do get that. but lets face it: in 95% of cases they go for range and recoil and then they all use the ddfg and 20" barrel (or 18" currently) and whatever stock gives the most recoil control (idk i play mp7 lol)
hardy agate
He took a friggin laptop and 200 bucks, I later killed him and took his shit but he put that loose loot in his secure lol
main cliff
Ultimately, all you're doing is as Eliaaaas said, changing from "looks identical, works identical" to "looks different, works identical". It wouldn't change anything whatsoever.
hardy agate
Agreement.
Unfortunately there is no way to uproot the cancer in this community of copy paste loadouts
faint fjord
Ultimately, all you're doing is as Eliaaaas said, changing from "looks identical...
well how would it not change anything? guns would look different. its the same in tarkov, they all look the same. it would just be nice to not have the same thing over and over again. like have one use the rk4 and the other the shift or afg2. that would make guns look different
especially since it shouldnt even be hard to implement this
hardy agate
laughs in Triangle Stock AK-12 with a Pilad Red Dot
main cliff
The only "cure" to meta loadouts is to run the one that works best for you. Some players will quite happily trade recoil for better handling, or trade reload speed for heavier weapons. Personally, I can quite happily handle recoil and seldom use full auto... it's very much a redundant stat for me. I want to be able to bring my weapon up faster, so I trade stats for that instead.
pure crag
The only "cure" to meta loadouts is to run the one that works best *for you*. So...
I'd love to encounter players who have the mentality of "well I prefer faster ADS to better recoil so I'll wear this instead"
if this changed occured, that would just be gone
hardy agate
Personally I have made weapons based off of reducing weight
pure crag
Personally I have made weapons based off of reducing *weight*
Thisss
hardy agate
And, to be frank, reducing magazine inventory bloat
main cliff
I'd love to encounter players who have the mentality of "well I prefer faster AD...
Met one now!
But overall, the principle is everyone plays different. You build according to what works for your playstyle, and if you follow a meta, then more fool you.
faint fjord
I'd love to encounter players who have the mentality of "well I prefer faster AD...
yeah that would be how players thought than i wouldnt even have thought about this. but they dont. like 20 something ddm4s and all the same shit so its kinda obvious they do not think that way
hardy agate
20rnd STANAG mags only take a 1x1 slot each
pure crag
yeah that would be how players thought than i wouldnt even have thought about th...
there's also something fascinating about killing a meta slave
hardy agate
Really good for stealing guns with a 6Sh104
faint fjord
yeah there is but its still boring as hell always looting the same shit
hardy agate
Ill give one benefit to fighting meta slaves
main cliff
Then just sell it. Nobody is forcing you to use it.
hardy agate
So...many....Optics.
faint fjord
Then just sell it. Nobody is forcing you to use it.
thats not the point is it? i can use it but i just want to see unique guns when killing people. its so boring if you shoot someone and you already know what you will be looting
main cliff
And if anything, it's rewarding selling that meta shite for whatever your own personal preference is.... because your weapon is yours, and it's built how you want it to be.
faint fjord
like there is more excitement to looting bots atm xd
faint fjord
I'd say its more rewarding to kill someone and then see something that you go "oh that looks cool i like that" instead of "ahh this shite again where are you gunny"
pure crag
I'd say its more rewarding to kill someone and then see something that you go "o...
And I'd argue the counter, it's more cool to kill a guy who has put thought into his build for the situation he's facing
even if that situation is rare
main cliff
but that's just a personal hang up. If I'm looting some muppet who's dropped 16k on his DDM4 while using my custom AK12 or whatever, then it's his loss and very much my gain.
faint fjord
And I'd argue the counter, it's more cool to kill a guy who has put thought into...
95% of the time the situation he's facing is jungle or open land where you automatically go for the longest barrel and as much recoil control as possible
hardy agate
Killing a player while using an AI gun is also funny
faint fjord
because in the jungle nothing matters and in the open recoil and accuracy matters
faint fjord
Killing a player while using an AI gun is also funny
yeah thats dopamine
pure crag
95% of the time the situation he's facing is jungle or open land where you autom...
recoil control is a farce tbh, you want spread in your bullets
hardy agate
recoil control is a farce tbh, you *want* spread in your bullets
Absolutely not.
pure crag
absolutely, you only need one good hit to kill, and if you land all your shots on plate you're doomed
faint fjord
recoil control is a farce tbh, you *want* spread in your bullets
you dont want spread in your bullets at all. if you need that then you are should focus more on where you are shooting
MOA is the base spread you have and you counter that by aiming at the spot you want to hit and shooting then
main cliff
At the end of the day, I'll return to my original point - use your weapon and build it as you want to suit your playstyle (whatever that is). Don't worry about what everyone else is running - at the end of the day, it is all just $$$.
faint fjord
and by having a lot of recoil you have additional variables
pure crag
if you send 60 bullets down into the same place, you're statistically less likely to hit critically
hardy agate
Even max recoil control M4s don't hit every shot on the same point.
faint fjord
if you send 60 bullets down into the same place, you're statistically less likel...
if your crosshair goes up beyond the head you are statistically unlikely to kill tho
or off the side
pure crag
if your crosshair goes up beyond the head you are statistically unlikely to kill...
recoil never goes that high
faint fjord
recoil never goes that high
not with an m4.
hardy agate
'Swhy I dont let jesus take the wheel when firing full auto
faint fjord
My MP7 has 0 recoil yet the enemies drop in an instant every single time. thats because i aim to kill not hope
or pray
pure crag
using mp7 on semi automatic is dangerous territory
hardy agate
Grab a BOT AKM from starter town
Fire about 1000 rounds at the main base range
Ask someone to run spotter from the mortar pit firing at the shed
And just mag dump at the container shed on the opposite side of the Heli landing.
You will notice that having wide spread meant you may as well have been using a call of duty shotgun
faint fjord
using mp7 on semi automatic is dangerous territory
just go full auto and burst them, kills 99% of the time within the first 2-3 shots
faint fjord
You will notice that having wide spread meant you may as well have been using a ...
someone i know that went to afghanistan always joked about how you should run straight when they shoot at you with an ak
pure crag
i will have to draw up a diagram to show why a wide spread is better
faint fjord
i will have to draw up a diagram to show why a wide spread is better
no need. if i aim at their heart i want as little spread as possible same goes for head
any spread will just put me off the vitals further
if i need spread to kill i may as well need a couple days of aimlabs
hardy agate
The small amount of recoil my AK-12 has will climb from your heart, in the event of your survival, into your head, ditching recoil control will cause shot two to bounce over you.
pure crag
do we agree this is roughly the size of a plate
faint fjord
goes higher usually but thats not the point
i am shooting apsx at their heart. it goes through the plate and splatters in their heart
faint fjord
so green is with less recoil control. so that means with green i am more likely to hit their should instant of their upper body
thats bad
shoulder*
hardy agate
Man I frackin' wish.
faint fjord
thats not because the plate is higher
and if i use the right ammo i shoot through the plate
and for something like an mp7 you wont kill with a shoulder hit in any case. m855 does the same mostly
hardy agate
Are you making an SVD chart here or what?
Because the SVD doesnt care about your armor anyways lol
faint fjord
i dont go around shooting SP in PVP
faint fjord
Because the SVD doesnt care about your armor anyways lol
AP SX also doesnt
hardy agate
AP SX also doesnt
Yeah, but I mention the SVD because 7N1 will, as he claimed, kill through the shoulder pretty consistently
pure crag
AP SX also doesnt
my plate6 says otherwise
faint fjord
my plate6 says otherwise
your plate 6 says the same cuz by the time you get to shoot me the 5th bullet already shattered your plate and went straight to your heart
probably the 3rd or 4th already
hardy agate
Gonna say this, if anyone is running Plate6 in a PvP fight, it's seal clubbing or both players is shooting through it anyways with advanced AP rounds, so recoil mitigation is being preferred anyways.
My logic is infallible.
faint fjord
aint no way apsx breaks steel in 4 shots
it will kill you before you can react 100%
pure crag
are we not assuming equal fights here, ofc you win if you shoot first
steel oxide
You guys should settle this in-game.
faint fjord
i have killed so many people with plate 6 and the other 3++ already and they always drop instantly
steel oxide
Then report back after.
pure crag
i have killed so many people with plate 6 and the other 3++ already and they alw...
yeah but you didnt break their armour
you shot around it
faint fjord
are we not assuming equal fights here, ofc you win if you shoot first
you are not getting equal fights at all. and in an equal fight your recoil doesnt matter because the better aim wins 100%
faint fjord
you shot around it
pretty sure i did not if their armor is at 70% after
pure crag
if its at 70% you didnt break it
hardy agate
Armor performance doesnt degrade with durability
pure crag
armour works until 0%
hardy agate
Unlike tarkov
faint fjord
well how in the world do i kill with apsx then
pure crag
your SPREAD killed them
faint fjord
because if you ever shot a bot in the shoulder then you know they dont drop at all from that
faint fjord
you have to shoot heart or head for apsx to kill and recoil isnt nearly enough to hit the head with mp7
pure crag
you likely hit thorax from your spread
steel oxide
AI doesn't suffer the way players do... yet.
hardy agate
because if you ever shot a bot in the shoulder then you know they dont drop at a...
AI have different death thresholds and cannot coma
pure crag
or they tried to bail fight and you hit them in the side
you won the fight because your recoil shifted your aim from the heart into a vital organ
faint fjord
im gonna save the clips from now on and look at where my shots landed but its very unlikely that i hit outside any plates
pure crag
if you had 0 recoil, you'd lose the fight 9 times out of 10
faint fjord
the mp7 has 0 recoil. especially when only shooting under 10 shots
faint fjord
if you had 0 recoil, you'd lose the fight 9 times out of 10
but i do and i dont
faint fjord
the mp7 has like 4.5 MOA
yeah but 4.5moa at 10m is like 2cm
main cliff
Ok, thread fully derailed at this point, and I've said my piece, but once again, for the record, I'll say it again.
Run what you want to run, don't worry what someone else runs, and just have fun as a result. Enough said.
steel oxide
Ok, thread fully derailed at this point, and I've said my piece, but once again,...
Yeah, so when I want to run a 20" lightweight AR w/ carry handle in YBL that is my choice, and also a good one.
pure crag
Ok, thread fully derailed at this point, and I've said my piece, but once again,...
I agree, though I'll die on this hill, spreading your bullets increases the likelyhood of a vital hit