Firing in your (literally massive) spirals makes each beam deal 218 damage, adding up to 654, then after the shock effect youre between 750-850 based on other perks you have
#Ignore
dire harness
You only get this high damage on large targets though, as it has spread-
but thats the only targets you need this much damage on. Even in hazard 7 on high swarm intesity, the aoe is clearing small targets with only 1 beam
making its spread like this extremely devastating to all the small critters:
The gun alone solos nearly everything, there is hardly ever a reason to switch besides ammo
Higher difficulties and buffs to other guns I think would be extremely beneficial to keep more guns relevant
heres max range (not even that short), possibly its only weakness since firerate was still high shooting each beam within a second, but the range drawback is easily overcome if built differently. The railgun build could shoot these from anywhere in ship without any damage fall off
(the 90 is from shock dmg going up, the hit dmg here was the same as before with no fall-off)
Again, I dont think it needs a nerf, I actually like its design a lot, Id like more guns to follow in its footsteps and have versitile powerful upgrades to buff them
weary breach
the shocklance deals very little damage in reality. the issue is gaining access to cores directly.
any other gun can pretty much always out damage the shocklance
dire harness
After what I just showed, I dont know how that can check out
Ive only seen 2 other guns remotely keep up, one being super overused (gunship)
And the gunship has 1/4th of the aoe
weary breach
I classify the shocklance very similar to the globbler. Its all about opportunity cost. Sure you can deal high damage but you have to expend time to deal it. Whereas other guns achieve the same or higher damage over the same period of time.
In this case the shocklances saving grace is pierce which is entirely breaking the game because it bypasses shells and accesses core directly.
For the globbler instead of pierce it has a very large damage radius effectively achieving the same goal.
dire harness
Finished the build
deals 1800 a shot now, with a 1 second reload
cant convince me the other guns hold up to that, havent seen any pull it off
broke down some math to double check
Dealt 1710 damage in its shot before the shock damage
weary breach
Well yes your reload is quick. What is your refire time
weary breach
Half cocked deals damage based on how long you charge. Your charge time should be something like 0.3 + 1.15 and then *202%.
dire harness
wdym refire time
it fires 1 shot per a second
is that what you mean?
no charge to full charge takes 1 full second, allowing you to launch moderately paced volleys of this massive pierce AOE with shock applying to everything
I basically never release non-fully charged shots with half cocked, I just let it charge fully
its quick enough that its never a real issue
Ill try to just clip it for referance next time Im on
unborn pagoda
I'm sorry but I didn't read whole wall of text, but you DO know the AoE problem thing, right?
dire harness
Im ignoring boss damage, talking about its sheer damage on a single target
then the fact that the huge damage, is literally in a massive aoe
unborn pagoda
The massive AoE part is actually an upgrade's problem I think?
dire harness
the massive AoE is just upgrades stacking on eachother
unborn pagoda
Forgot the name, but the upgrade lets you hold fire to make it bigger AND RANGE
dire harness
thats half cocked
unborn pagoda
Ignoring the AoE vs core damage problem, I personally think it's damage is fine
dire harness
I agree, the original message is totally lost above
unborn pagoda
But the radius, and it's range is THE problem to me
It can cover whole screen plus everything dies if those are in 100 meter range or something
I believe it's THE problem
dire harness
but its huge damage in a massive aoe I think is fine, if the game continues to gradually get harder. The post was that I think more guns should be able to stack in as crazy ways as the shocklance does right now
if every gun can scale to be awesome, people can enjoy any gun
unborn pagoda
Yeah, then the lance is too versatile
dire harness
but rn if Im running hazard 7 on max swarm, Im bringing this gun by default- with that many enemies being that tanky, this just is a no brainer and excludes other options
unborn pagoda
Because it's huge AoE, on top of AoE vs core
dire harness
I think guns that deal single target should have upgrades to scale their damage MUCH higher
the dmlr should never be hitting weaker than a shocklance, yet it does lol
dire harness
honestly it would be better to remove the huge size of the aoe
unborn pagoda
That's the main reason why the lance is too versatile
dire harness
the range is often really really needed in hazard 7 I find
unborn pagoda
You can still kill things fine without bigger AoE
dire harness
exactly
but if the range is shortened, it cant do half as well, its actually a really major nerf
unborn pagoda
Again, the reason why it's op is too versatile
dire harness
I think versatile is fine, Its more just highlighting that other guns need better upgrades
unborn pagoda
You need to buff every single weapons if we are doing your route lol
dire harness
that will happen anyway
the game eventually will have hazard 8.. than hazard 9.. etc, so things gradually also will be buffed
unborn pagoda
No, once if they fix the AoE problem where they seems it can't happen :/
dire harness
I just dont want stats the thing being buffed, it would be way cooler to see them keep releasing versatile upgrades that stack, allowing you to make specific powerful builds in various directions
unborn pagoda
the game eventually will have hazard 8.. than hazard 9.. etc, so things graduall...
Not possible unless they touch how threat modifier works... Every threat adds x2 to their health points....
So T8 is x2 tougher than T7
dire harness
like yeah you can run the huge aoe build im doing rn on shocklance, but technically you can get its damage even HIGHER if you sacrifice the aoe part of it
unborn pagoda
Nobody able to deal with aboms
dire harness
Nobody able to deal with aboms
nah theyd be fair
my teamate and I take out aboms on T7 still normally within 2 minutes each
T7 is only hard if things lose control and a bad swarm starts
unborn pagoda
Well I only play DvG so I can't tell lol
dire harness
DvG?
dire harness
Oh you play solo?
unborn pagoda
Solo is easiest in fact
dire harness
Never tried, I only run with a duo lol
unborn pagoda
Due to health scaling, the more "weak" players joins you, the game gets tougher
Offtopic tho
dire harness
Scrapper and Glider with major glass cannon builds, everything in mobility and damage lol
unborn pagoda
Offtopic again, but unless you are killing each aboms within 10 seconds you will be overwhelmed
And only selected setup can do that
dire harness
Nah thats what aoe is for
one person is running an anti-abom weapon, and the other a massive aoe clearing one
unborn pagoda
You do understand AoE is the thing to kill bosses right
dire harness
if you cover them right, they can take out the abom and keep it pretty neutralized the whole time, the other person just has to manage the dumbers
dire harness
You do understand AoE is the thing to kill bosses right
not all of it.
Some of the aoe weapons arent going through and I cant figure out why
unborn pagoda
That means you don't know what I'm talking about it sounds like?
dire harness
shocklance for example seems to have a massive amount of its damage not affect the lower layers
unborn pagoda
Ye ye
Same goes on biggest explosion build for GSC
And plate arcs, some missiles, lead flinger explosion etc has bigger "AoE"
The "AoE" means hitbox based attack
So it can hit their core directly
Ignoring 200k armors of abominations
dire harness
The autocannon (forgot the name) and the gobbler both can mow the abom down fast as hell when built for it, but the shocklance doesnt for some reason despite theoretically going through? I dont know why
dire harness
takes twice as long, despite way higher dps
unborn pagoda
That's why I'm saying it's too versatile
dire harness
its like its going through, but not entirely
unborn pagoda
The shock lance also shoots invisible hitscan "bullet" on top of it's AoE to check if it's stopped
And only landscapes and buildings can stop it
It's the reason I think
If it hits the ground it stops
dire harness
Its aoe just doesnt quite seem to reach the core, not sure if its hitscan is stopped for some reason or what
unborn pagoda
Nah nah I'm 100% sure it can pene abomination's armors. I believe I have a video for it on #builds even.
dire harness
Unlike gobbler, where even when we are counting its damage done and watching it deal WAY less than the shocklance aoe, it still melts the boss much quicker
unborn pagoda
It was like 2 or 3 hits
dire harness
Nah nah I'm 100% sure it can pene abomination's armors. I believe I have a video...
I know it SHOULD be
I understance how its working
but it doesnt line up with the numbers
thats what is weird about it
unborn pagoda
#builds message
Found it
It can pen aboms
This leads to your suggestion's value even further
It can cover whole screen
It has extreme range
It can delete bosses
It can delete everything
Too versatile, isn't it
I found the build shown in the video within 4 hours after they released the shock lance btw
dire harness
well the main upgrades are kindof the most obvious route
unborn pagoda
I personally think they were assuming shock lance to deal bigger units but maybe hard to use
Because it has very low ammo counts
So I thought reducing AoE radius/range is a good way
dire harness
Ammo is extremely easy to reload though
unborn pagoda
Meh, I agree with your suggestion anyway
I even think why they had to nerf GSC and lead flinger
unborn pagoda
Shock lance is absolute winner of this game
unborn pagoda
the devs aint reading all this
I think it's opposite actually. They are tend to read this discord ONLY, to determine what to balance.
They seems not reading reddit nor steam's toxic discussion at all
dire harness
no no I mean the discussion around this suggestion was too long, Im concerned they wont read into anything said in here
unborn pagoda
More conversation number makes suggestion seems it has, uh, conversations
I vote for narrowing AoE radius or reduce it's range
It's biggest impact for shock lance being extremely OP
I haven't even said GSC nor lead flinger is op even
Lance is THAT op right now
dire harness
I vote other guns gradually get upgrades for different types of builds, and have them scale up to this level
unborn pagoda
There is litrerally ZERO reason to use other guns if you want mix-max
dire harness
If lance is a jack of all trades right now, than it stands to reason that other guns should get stronger than this one- at specific things
if Abom aoe/piercing is patched especially, thatll nerf shocklance
unborn pagoda
You can't, since lance will still delete screen and bosses with ease
dire harness
than patch the aoe through boss problem lol
unborn pagoda
if Abom aoe/piercing is patched especially, thatll nerf shocklance
I read their code and it seems VERY HARD to implement...
dire harness
it would just make it an aoe deleter
unborn pagoda
It's hard. Believe me.
dire harness
I read their code and it seems VERY HARD to implement...
I mean... would it really be? How are the individual layers identified?
unborn pagoda
I say make hotbox based AoE hits core at 20% or even 5% damage even
unborn pagoda
I mean... would it really be? How are the individual layers identified?
They use unity's hitbox thingy. It's very hard to code their own "AoE" unless make everything raycast which will be very impactful for your CPU.
unborn pagoda
Then AoE stays powerful as it is
dire harness
just have the body parts immune to all damage until the previous layer is cleared
the aoe still will be going through- but itll just do nothing
unborn pagoda
Trust. They have to take whole months to fix it.
dire harness
Thats fine, the game is still new
unborn pagoda
While we are at that, needless to say but there will be no new contents.
dire harness
it has room to grow- but as it stands right now, aoe being the highest DPS on bosses AND on swarms just makes AOE > all
dire harness
no need to dedicate the entire team to the boss problem, only a small handful being dedicated to it would be required
unborn pagoda
Trust me, if shock lance couldn't penetrate the mid sized cores, it won't be THIS powerful. And they have to take a lot of time to fix the AoE.
dire harness
they dont need to fix the aoe, just how bosses are written
unborn pagoda
Hell, I think the AoE problem is not here if the fix is that easy like everybody says.
dire harness
the core and lower layers just should be immune to damage till the layer above it is cleared, thats all
It may not be easy, but its needed
they shouldnt have to change how aoe works, just the aboms
changing the aoe of the game would be way harder without a doubt
unborn pagoda
That means you have to put IDs on every parts of abomination associated with each cores and checks if it's still alive. The armor parts are "alive" state while on the floor too. You have to find where the armor pieces are in order to deactivate the "barrier" of core. Sounds easy enough to you?
dire harness
Yes, yes it does lmfao
unborn pagoda
Note that they don't have NASA level of coding skill
dire harness
give the layers individual variables to track, and just have each layer immune to damage unless said layer is dead. Sure theres more steps to it, but its feasible
unborn pagoda
By the way, the Bepinex can inject anything into the game. Go download IDE and decompile the game, make your own solution against AoE vs core and send them if you think that's easy :p
dire harness
never said its easy, but what you described above is WAY easier than you think
unborn pagoda
Then can you code for them?
dire harness
the only question is how they wrote aboms in the first place, theres a possibility that a TON of it would need to be redone
thats all that would take time and effort
unborn pagoda
From my standpoint, it takes whole month to fix the "issue"
dire harness
yeah, a dedicated handful at most working on the problem while the rest of the team is on new content
thats fine
unborn pagoda
Do you even know how many programmers they got lol
dire harness
You dont need the whole team at all, the models are already done for it for example
dire harness
Do you even know how many programmers they got lol
No but surely they arent like.. 3 people
right? x_X
unborn pagoda
I even gave up talking about AoE issue at this point considering they are the real "small studio" unlike AA titles pretends to be
dire harness
How many on the team?
unborn pagoda
6?
dire harness
its doable
it would slow down some new content for a month, but it would make the game way better in the long run
For game survivability, it should be worth it if priorities are straight
unborn pagoda
You can't make the choice. The choices are on studio's side :/
dire harness
I know, im just saying that in my opinion, they should totally work on abom tweaks
unborn pagoda
Yeah yeah and that's the very reason why I decided to tell the AoE problem where nobody even noticed
Note that I was hiding the AoE problem on purpose
dire harness
A game without balancing will lose a lot of peoples interest, thats why games have nerfs in the first place. And since aoe cant be nerfed easily- you can make bosses layers immune to it in order to fake the nerf and achieve the same thing
unborn pagoda
I understand you
dire harness
Note that I was hiding the AoE problem on purpose
yeah im permanently gatekeeping a certain bug... Ill never speak out about it till they patch it LOL
unborn pagoda
And that's why Sparroh and I have started showing why it's that bad
Because hiding the AoE problem seemed leading the game into very bad direction
Now see the #builds
Everybody knows AoE is absolute king
dire harness
Well its not like the aoe problem was very hidden
I noticed it before getting far at all or before joining the discord- using the autocannon aoe was melting aboms and cubes way faster than my dmlr that was doing double its damage, so obviously something was fishy there XD
unborn pagoda
Well, your core message of this suggestion is "make the power creep happneing nobody cares it's PvE game" or am I missing something
Power creep never ends
dire harness
110% missing something, Idk how you possibly got that
unborn pagoda
Because I don't even think buffing other weapons won't solve the issue
dire harness
not buffing!
Buffing implies more damage or some kind of stat increase
I want them to have powerful abilities to stack off eachother, so they also can build up to the high power level that the shocklance has
unborn pagoda
My conclusion is
- AoE itself is too good
- But they can't fix it for now. They KNOW the issue already. If it's that easy, it's fixed already.
- Then shock lance has those
- Big AoE
- Big damage
- Can penetrate bosses
- No other weapons has meaning now
And
Let's eliminate the AoE problem
dire harness
whether its quirky abilities, strange affects, or even just stacking of %'s, Id love to see even more diverse upgrades on other weapons
unborn pagoda
It still has 700x3 of BIG AoE where no other weapons can
It's still extremely powerful
No other weapons can deal trashes like shock lance
The problem is still there.
dire harness
thats not a problem if its made for aoe in the first place
unborn pagoda
Even your "crazy synergy interaction", shock lance will be still king
dire harness
It just means other guns could use upgrades to make their purposes stronger as well
dire harness
Even your "crazy synergy interaction", shock lance will be still king
this makes no sense
at all
unborn pagoda
For? shock lance can still delete whole screen
dire harness
what if they added some stupid 2000% dmg buff to a gun, obv it wouldnt still be king, you cant just assume it would be the best with zero idea of what could possibly be added
unborn pagoda
Even then I pick shock lance + said OP 2000% damage gun for aboms
Because why not?
Shock lance can delete everything other than aboms
dire harness
the game has already proved to have a chain lightning mechanic, and chainlightning does not miss. What if they had a chain plasma fire from the dmlr instead that bounced between like 40 enemies- thats unmissable insane aoe
unborn pagoda
Give me a reason to NOT picking shock lance here
dire harness
Even then I pick shock lance + said OP 2000% damage gun for aboms
youre still just prying on a bug!
unborn pagoda
Nah. 700 damage is more than enough to delete anything outside aboms.
Even without AoE problem
dire harness
you can miss- and it doesnt hit behind you
a barrel can 1 tap you before you see it, that happens all the time to people
No gun is perfect in every way, theres totally new things they could bring to the game if they fix the abom layers
unborn pagoda
It's weird. You clearly said shock lance is OP in this very title yet you don't want to be nerfed?
dire harness
if shocklance is reduced to hitting top layer like normal guns, than its mainly just an aoe cannon now with great damage. From that point, other guns can be granted stronger abilities to raise their usefulness to match it
unborn pagoda
You seems you didn't know you could kill aboms in maybe 2-3 shots :/
dire harness
Youre just being argumentative now, what is your problem with me?
unborn pagoda
My problem with you is I think we have to nerf shock lance?
I think
And it's definitely the AoE radius to me
dire harness
im just deleting this thread, this is a waste of time now
unborn pagoda
"It can cover whole screen but it's fine" is a nono to me
No
Dont
They need more voices including yours
So far there is only 1 person who disagrees slightly and that's only me right
No need to delete your suggestion imo
dire harness
Ignore
unborn pagoda
:/
dire harness
it just became an argument, idk why I bothered