▫️Doom: The Dark Ages

[charred mortar]

and the other one does idk what

[pale isle]

No SS comparison?

[charred mortar]

nope

[vocal rivet]

r_raytracedReflectionsTemporalUpscaleQuality at 0 means ray-traced reflections are rendered at native resolution. 1 is 1/2, 2 is 1/3, 3 is 1/4 resolution

[charred mortar]

also idk if those cvars do anything

might just be snake oil from previous id games

but imo its worth a try if you have the hardware

[vocal rivet]

I tried it and it's a bit nicer but the performance hit is really only worth it if you've got headroom on the gpu. Especially in a fast-paced game like this

[gaunt light]

they do

[last latch]

would they work from an autoexec.cfg rather than loading it through console?

[gaunt light]

no

[last latch]

fully upgraded ravager is just op

[wise cradle]

how much does it affect performance?

[gaunt light]

less than 10%

some effects are missing if you turn off ssr

like all particles are not ray traced

[wise cradle]

but is it still worth it in your opinion?

[wide pawn]

Bang4Buck just released another video, this fella is getting lower PCL with MFG 4x then what I was getting with No FG + Reflex @real wharf@wet pasture

The only difference I can imagine is that I undervolted and power limited 85% my card. I am using 100w less compared to him on avg for each scene

he's running an overclock for both clock and VRAM

His pre FG PCL is 17-18ms

[gaunt light]

personal preference

ssr on looks better (when in screen space of course) but ssr off is more consistent

[gaunt light]

i use 50 walts more

3.2 ghz

why is his fps so low btw

[wide pawn]

No clue, he's using DLSS Q

And in some scenes he's dropping to 174FPS

But his PCL barely changes

My bigger question is I think he uses a TV

[gaunt light]

yes

[wide pawn]

Hence his in game refresh rate limit caps at 120FPS

[gaunt light]

lg c3

no

thats his capture card

[wide pawn]

Oh

Then I don't know what's going on

[gaunt light]

same spot

whats your fps at main menu ?

4k dlss quality no fg

im getting exact 144 fps

[wide pawn]

One sec

[gaunt light]

tf

let me try stock 5090

[wide pawn]

I am only running reshade here

no SK

[gaunt light]

same

your 5090 seems busted

im getting 10 fps more here

[wide pawn]

I just remembered I am running Liliums grain and Voosh's D93 shader

In addition

[gaunt light]

are these shaders that much demanding ?

[wide pawn]

Right turning them off netted me 6FPS

[wide pawn]

reshade removed

[gaunt light]

where does these 4 fps come from then

should be indentical ?

wait

[wide pawn]

Different hardware

[gaunt light]

did you keep nvidia filter on

[wide pawn]

No

[gaunt light]

that costs 3%

[wide pawn]

ansel is off

and all the other shenanigans

so is steam overlay

[gaunt light]

off in the nvidia app right ?

not just in game

[wide pawn]

app and inspector

[gaunt light]

no idea then

wait are you on windows 11 24H2

[wide pawn]

yes

[gaunt light]

thats it

24H2 is slower

😩

[wide pawn]

NOOOOO my 4FPS

[gaunt light]

24H2 is still busted atm

btw you can undervolt your 5090 more

pretty sure

my card can do more than 3ghz at 1.0v

for 2760mhz you probably only need like 0.9v

[wet pasture]

My 5090 arrives tomorrow and I'll probably undervolt. Is that preferable to just reducing power limit? I guess you lose significantly more perf lowering PL?

[gaunt light]

no

you need to modify the curve

Bang4BuckPC Gamer has a video on how to do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psl0ihr2_60

[wet pasture]

Perfect thanks

[gaunt light]

and you can just maxed the vram slider

just like he did in the oc section

[wet pasture]

Will help alleviate my slight (probably unwarranted) concerns over my 1000W PSU!

[wide pawn]

Cheers for that Polly

[gaunt light]

+3000 vram is a free performance gain for blackwell gpus

[wide pawn]

So I think the issue is with the game and reflex. If I use MFG 4x capped, there are scenes where GPU usage will drop to 70% or below and that doubles latency.

MFG 3x uses a higher base FPS and pegs the GPU so it maintains me at 85% GPU util and above and that doesn't have the issue even at the same FPS cap

PCL is in the 20s now

[gaunt light]

https://download-eu2.guru3d.com/aft...burner466Beta5Build16555_ExtendedMemoryOC.rar you need this for +3000

otherwise you can only do +2000

though its only like 1% difference

[wet pasture]

What % does the +2000 net you over stock?

[gaunt light]

2%

+1000 = 1%

gddr7 is already super fast so not much again here

but its free

[real wharf]

Oh... So he was uncapped there?

[wet pasture]

No temp/power hit? Or negligible?

[gaunt light]

negligible

single digits power diff

[wet pasture]

Cool, I'll grab my extra 3% then!

[gaunt light]

see this

faster than stock

but check the power draw

its 5080 level

[wet pasture]

Ok so undervolting is king.

[gaunt light]

i did 2872mhz @900mv here

[wet pasture]

Fingers crossed I get lucky

[gaunt light]

but in game its actually 2715mhz@895mv

[wet pasture]

Could you share your curve when you have a few mins?

[gaunt light]

this is due to the boost algorithm of blackwell

[wet pasture]

It's been years since I've undervolted

[gaunt light]

just watch Bang4BuckPC Gamer's video

1:40

[real wharf]

Oh. This is why... I'm runnin 2872mhz @900mv as well but it's unstable in some titles.

Using this now.

[gaunt light]

yeah the voltage and frequency will drop when the power draw increases

this is the boost algorithm of blackwell

my card can do 3307mhz @ 1.11v when the power draw is below 200w

but at 600w its like 3145mhz @ 1.05v

[real wharf]

Although does not boosting mem. that much increases memory temperature quite significantly?

[gaunt light]

the previous nvidia gpus wont drop frequency and voltage unless you hit the power limit or the temperature is higher

[gaunt light]

has nothing to do with vram

[white talon]

Stupid question, does Nvidia and AMD handle HDR the same way?

[gaunt light]

except nvapi games

they are likely to be broken on AMD with no way to fix

[wet pasture]

Dude is so chill. Thanks, good reference point for my tinkering tomorrow when my card arrives

[dark wharf]

https://youtu.be/DZfhbMc9w0Q?t=3746 Billy says they're using ACES 1.3 as their tonemapper here (and "1.2 or 1.0" for Eternal in HDR, their SDR tonemapper was different)

[charred mortar]

I mean anybody with eyeballs can see they use aces in doom

[gaunt light]

😆

[vocal rivet]

Been playing with the sliders. Feels much better at 50% damage to demons. They were dying too quick.

[wide pawn]

Personally, I think Doom DA is too slow

[sick badge]

All games should be this fast btw
Im tired of slow games

[runic crow]

Are you guys using rt reflections?

[steady gate]

ye

RT for reflections is enabled for any setting higher than low

They have a pretty high roughness cut off, so the RT reflection aren't very expensive

[pale isle]

Ultra Nightmare

So, whatever that gives me. I didn’t edit any file.

[steady gate]

This is on 3060 ti IIRC

no reason not to use it if you have a decent GPU

[charred mortar]

now set RT reflection quality to 100%

[steady gate]

Ultra and above is already full res I think

medium is 1/3 and high is 1/2

okay I was wrong, everything above medium is 1/2 res

[runic crow]

I'm on a 2070 super and I've been using them at high

[steady gate]

so the same as Eternal
That said, full res reflections in eternal where kinda placebo quality

[runic crow]

I still need to install reshade

[steady gate]

I mean if you don't struggle with the frame rate, no reason to turn them off

[runic crow]

I dip below 60

[charred mortar]

I mean then whay would the cvars exist?

[runic crow]

but I'm using reflex + vrr

[charred mortar]

if there is an ingame console you can probably run the cvar with no param

and see what it spits out

[charred mortar]

o

yea mb didnt see that

[runic crow]

doom works fine with vulkan layer reshade right?

[steady gate]

Install as DX11/12

[runic crow]

gotcha

hmm it looks like it has some greenish white balance

the reshade ui I mean

[gaunt light]

thats problem not the reason

[steady gate]

yeah it's normal with vulkan

[gaunt light]

their rt reflections are missing a lot of things

so they blend ssr with it

[steady gate]

which is why they are fast

[gaunt light]

yes

[steady gate]

they did it eternal too

[gaunt light]

roughness cut off is probably not that much related

[steady gate]

and there are some things like volumetrics and decals that you cant do in BVH

[gaunt light]

not these

[steady gate]

which is why SSR is still needed

[gaunt light]

In doom eternal the quality of rt reflections are actually higher

tou can turn off ssr and check the difference actually

they are much worse than those in doom eternal

doom eternal has higher quality bvh

which makes sense since in that game rt reflections are not so cheap

[runic crow]

it is a little weird though

the consoles were still shooting for 1800p 60 with rt reflections iirc

[gaunt light]

its medium reflections on console

[runic crow]

I thought consoles didn't use any rt reflections at all

[gaunt light]

higher roughness cut off and quarter res

i mean doom eternal

[runic crow]

ngl

I thought it was just an on off toggle

[gaunt light]

tda doesnt have rt reflections on consoles

[runic crow]

yea

[gaunt light]

the rt mode of doom eternal on consoles actually run at similar res as 120fps mode

which means it run at half the framerate

Thats not cheap

[runic crow]

no kidding

on pc it felt super cheap

max settings and still locking to 4k 120

[gaunt light]

on nvidia its cheaper of course

in tda rt reflections cost like 10% performance

[runic crow]

is it like that for dark ages as well? it seemed like amd and nv were similar this time around

[gaunt light]

lol

no its much cheaper in tda

[runic crow]

I'm at 720p internal and I'm probably barely matching series x performance(without rt reflections)

[gaunt light]

Probably they will add pt anyway

so they didnt bother higher quality settings

[runic crow]

anyway even then the game feels fine to play

I've seen a lot of people act like its unplayable because you can't shoot for 240fps

[ashen bloom]

What’s your gpu?

Oh you meant eternal lol

Mb

[runic crow]

yea

you'd need like 2x 5090s to do that in dark ages

[pale isle]

My DLAA with no FG is 80s

I'm doing it with FG 2x for now, will likely move to 3x once Path Tracing drops, or when I revisit for DLCs if I finish the game before the update.

[runic crow]

amazing I have no idea what's going on

the game loads reshade 6.3.3 somehow and just shows a black screen

win 10 2070 super pc ftw I guess

4090 pc just does stupid shit

[bitter flint]

I'm gonna wait for RenoDX. Too annoying to have to use the current recommended settings.

[pale isle]

Time to resume the goodness that is this game.

[real wharf]

By the way, sorry for the off topic, but bet you know. Is it common for the 5090 FE fans to never stop spinning? I remember they used to but maybe I messed something in Afterburner or whatever. Although using the default fan curve.

[oak kite]

They also render at half res at highest settings and fall back to SSR at places

[gaunt light]

They blend ssr with rt all the time in this game

[oak kite]

I mean screen space "places" 😉

ultimately, reflections raytracing workload is very small in this game

but the game itself is absolutely awesome

I'm half way through with it, playing on nightmare

can't really comprehend people who say it's too slow or too easy

I got my ass handed a lot of times already

The Revenants are particularly nasty I find

[wide pawn]

^ refer to this. I don't know how much faster people need the game to be in order to qualify as not slow

The game gives you a bunch of options to customise difficulty. I'm sure someone will release a mod with an even faster gamespeed multiplier if you want to turn it into Overkill.

That or it's just tourist who haven't played the game saying it's slow because gameplay videos from ID were slow

The gameplay reveal for 2016 was at a pensioner pace

[gaunt light]

SRR ON/OFF

[oak kite]

Hmmm... I wonder, if ray traced reflections are actually applied only when specific material have a flag that allows it to be ray traced

cause I haven't noticed any ray traced reflections on anything other than puddles

not even eyes

especially no RT reflection on guns

which is a bit disappointing

but that will probably be fixed by PT update

[steady gate]

So chat, how are we feeling about the game so far? I think I'm enjoying it more than eternal (I'm on the level 8 only, so that might change)
But I still don't know what to think about the melee combat focus
I'm also not feeling the discount titanfall/panzer dragoon stuff tbh

[dreamy flame]

agree, i also think i'm liking it a bit more than i did eternal

ost isn't on the same level tho 😦 it's not bad, just feels kinda derivative?

[steady gate]

Yeah, the music feels a lot like remixes of the older tracks

Like, I could swear they straight up reused the eternal ost at some points

[steady gate]

Dunno if posted yet, PT is comming in June
https://www.computerbase.de/news/gaming/doom-the-dark-ages-update-mit-full-raytracing-und-dlss-ray-reconstruction-im-juni.92650/

[oak kite]

Now THAT looks like a good raytracing

finally some metalic materials reflections

not just puddles

[dark wharf]

that pt screenshot is really sexy

[steady gate]

I assume it's gonna cut the frame rate by 2/3 like in IJ

Nice for folks with 4090s/5090s is guess

[dark wharf]

most likely yeah
i'll have finished the game by then so i don't really care, and i wouldn't have used it anyways

im fine with my 170fps w/ 2x

[real wharf]

Cool. Hope they're be able to fix Reflex by then.

[short geode]

Without an nvidia driver “hack” the minimum fan speed is actually 30% afaik

[gaunt light]

you bought the fe model ?

[short geode]

I didn’t, I have an msi gaming trio oc

[dreamy flame]

but i want it NOW

[pale isle]

Me too, but I also can't stop playing the game waiting for that, so we'll see.

Will likely get to play either last few levels in PT, or I might do a speed run of it all with PT.

Otherwise, whenever the DLCs come out.

[wide pawn]

Ultra Nightmare with PT

[pale isle]

das the plan.

Will have to go from FG 2x to 3x, though.

That PT screenies from ComputerBase looks smexy.

[pale isle]

lol @ that text.

Is it normal for ComputerBase to say that? I don't frequent them.

Or it's cause of the drama from yesterday with targeted reporting by techtubers?

[gaunt light]

really really fun game

[pale isle]

Based.

[swift bridge]

I don't normally play shooters

but I like this

I guess cause they made it for casuals

[gaunt light]

maxed out all sliders

insanely hard

[gaunt light]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtNrWCxuam4

threat interactive audiance

[bitter flint]

This looks good but with a 4090 at 2x frame gen I feel like the current highest settings is already as slow as I'd want this game to run (1440p, high settings, dlss quality, 2x fg, 220fps)

[vivid sandal]

220fps as a minimum? Jeez

[bitter flint]

240hz refresh rate with a practical fps cap around 223fps with reflex enable and working properly through special K

[dark wharf]

hitting sk cap triples my latency, so i avoid it by only using 2x and getting around 180fps on my 5070ti

[bitter flint]

hmmm I will need to check my latency measurements, thanks

[wide pawn]

if your GPU utilisation isnt above 80%s, latency increases massively

I had to used MFG 3x so that I am pinning my GPU more and that way I was able to get 25ms PCL

[dark wharf]

ah, i wasn't checking that when i tested
will test again when i play later

[sick badge]

Why? What happened?

[dark wharf]

they talk about mandatory rt in games

DF Direct Weekly #214: No Switch 2 Launch Reviews? Next-Gen Xbox Using ARM + The "Forced RT" Debate!

[torpid steeple]

r_SSRMinSmoothness works in this game btw (needs the console unlocker) if you want more stuff to be reflective. default is probably 0.58 like eternal. here's default vs 0. big performance hit of course.

[gaunt light]

i feel like that due to the garbage hardware of last gen consoles, people have really big misunderstanding of how realtime rendering envoles

[torpid steeple]

maybe it's going to change in the PT update but i feel like they really skimped on reflections in general in this game. obviously stuff like stone shouldn't be reflective, but there's a lot of glass and metal in the bases that isn't reflective at all. even using that console command to put it at 0 (which you shouldn't do, i wouldn't go lower than 0.3 or so) there's a lot that just looks off

[next crow]

nvm that's exactly what you said

[dreamy flame]

seems like the soundtrack gets better

or maybe the encounters get long enough for it to shine

[vivid sandal]

I encourage everyone to put the master mix at 100%, keep the rest at 70-80% and put the music mix at 100%

Otherwise you really do not hear it remotely enough

[dreamy flame]

oh yeah pretty sure i did that right away

[vivid sandal]

I think it's definitely not as impactful as the two previous games for now (I'm like at half of the game), but at least that way, I can hear it

By default, it feels so drowned into everything else, no idea why they did that

[daring gulch]

I hadn't changed anything but overnight reshade stopped loading with Steam version Dark Ages. I have gone so far as to uninstall the entire game and del all remaining folders, reinstalled game then reshade. The game opens but no reshade banner and ctrl+home key doesn't do anything.

Anyone else had this happen?

All other games work fine and as expected

Looking at event viewer idtechlauncher is crashing each time I open the game, but the game still opens (just not reshade)

Actually idtechlauncher.exe crashes when I close TDA, not when I open it

[runic crow]

man it is dropping frames harder in the 2nd level

rip locked 60fps

[pale isle]

How are you getting sub 60fps?

Don't you have a 4090?

[vivid sandal]

inb4 the 2070S computer

The 2nd level is far from being the most intensive in the game too

[pale isle]

xD

Yeah

[median fractal]

i have never used the black floor fix, is all i need to change the processing cutoff and the tick on enable sdr black floor emulation?

[gaunt light]

you are installing reshade as vulkan right

try install as dxgi

installing as vulkan breaks FG

[median fractal]

so just renamind the dll or reinstalling reshade as dx12

i'm not using fg but i'll do it anyway

[gaunt light]

no dll for vulkan

[median fractal]

ohh ok

reinstall then

[gaunt light]

no

[gaunt light]

you can just uncompress the reshade.exe

you will get a reshade64.dll

rename it to dxgi.dll and copy it to your game folder

no need to reinstall

[median fractal]

TIL you can uncompress an exe

found it

[potent bone]

So plan on playing the game but I've heard the HDR is ass what y'all recommend for a fix

[pale isle]

Pinned comment is the recommendation.

[potent bone]

Okay ty

[pale isle]

#1371673491912265828 message

[potent bone]

Another quick question does the gamepass or I think blizzard version work

[pale isle]

Game Pass version works.

I haven't tried Blizzard launcher one.

[potent bone]

I'll install gamepass one then ty very much

This game cyberpunk and read dead redemption 2 I need too figure out soon

Cuz my lg g5 comes June 9th

And I need good looking games with good HDR

[potent bone]

Why don't devs do good hdr

[pale isle]

Short answer: they don't care.

[potent bone]

Fair

[dark wharf]

(or don't know how to make it good)

[pale isle]

If they cared, they'd get to know how to make it good.

It's just not a priority for 'em.

[runic crow]

I'm going to have to cave in and start using it maybe

[potent bone]

Am I just downloading reshade or do I need add-ons

[sick badge]

You have a 4090 but you dont use it?

[pale isle]

Why are you like this

[pale isle]

There's no RenoDX for this, so just ReShade + Lilium's shaders.

https://github.com/EndlesslyFlowering/ReShade_HDR_shaders

[runic crow]

yea 🙂

[runic crow]

Wanted to see if they were overreacting about the game running on low end hardware

[potent bone]

Ight ty very much any tricks I have too do cuz I thought reshade was wonky with this game cuz vulkan or whatever

[pale isle]

Detective MLG

[pale isle]

I load it via SK, but others have reported that you can load it as DirectX and it works.

dxgi.dll should work.

Use the latest ReShade pinned in #🧩renodx-dev

[potent bone]

Okay I'll give it an attempt here soon

[potent bone]

So do directx not vulkan

[pale isle]

That's what others have reported here, yeah.

[potent bone]

Okay that didn't work

Vulkan is

and then this?

[pale isle]

Yes

[potent bone]

The music solid?

[pale isle]

I don't hate it, but it's no Mick Gordon, but still go ways to go.

[potent bone]

How does one find all the things too change in reshade

[pale isle]

Polly's pinned comment shows you what to change in ReShade.

Follow's Musa's guideline for what to put there.

[potent bone]

It just says no effect files

One assumes I did something wrong

[potent bone]

After this should I play doom 2016

[pale isle]

It was solid.

Eternal was also great.

I love DOOM reboot.

[potent bone]

I loved eternal I think I stayed up and beat it basically in one go 🧍

[median fractal]

i prefer the dark ages soundtrack even i think

it has more ... vibe to it? like, eternal soundtrack is a banger no question. but it's 99% guitar

whereas finishing move use a lot of string instruments

like the strings at the start of "when the shadows first lengthened"

chills ...

https://open.spotify.com/track/3f93S1Vq3Ui5nHQhTdYme2?si=1d129b33cc9e4339

[quick mountain]

For me .40 and latest driver freeze and black screen etc... I will rollback now

[wide pawn]

Do you have Rebar active?

if so disable it. You dont have to go into the bios, just turn it off globally or per game in inspector

that has been the reason for BSODs and black screen issues when combining any sort of DLSS,FG,RR tech

[gaunt light]

do not force rebar globally

can cause some serious issues for many games

[warm geode]

2 days ago i was able to select doom to install reshade. now it tells me i dont have permissions. any suggestions

[gaunt light]

wdym permissions

[warm geode]

when i start reshade and it asks me to select a game, i select doom, but then it tells me; you dont have permission to open this file

idk it worked fine 2 days ago

[wet pasture]

Gamepass? If so select the gamelaunchhelper.exe instead, one or two folders higher

[gaunt light]

actually there is a permanent way

+r_ssr 0

launch option

[steady gate]

Am I the only one who finds this game kinda hard to parse visually?

[gaunt light]

+com_skipIntroVideo 1 +com_skipKeyPressOnLoadScreens 1 +r_ssr 0 +r_raytracedreflectionstemporalupscalequality 0

[gaunt light]

i think it does look great ?

except some low res textures

[steady gate]

That's not what I'm asking

[gaunt light]

no i know that

so i edited it

you mean this game doesnt look that good right

[steady gate]

No

I mean I find it hard to tell what's going on sometimes

[torpid steeple]

i think it's pretty easy to parse

background colors are so drab everything important stands out

[steady gate]

So maybe it's just me

[torpid steeple]

of course it's hard to parse enemies that gank you from behind!

but that's another issue

[gaunt light]

you mean the map design or combat

[swift bridge]

can't say I agree

looks pretty clear to me

[gaunt light]

the level design does confuse me a bit

but you can just open the map

[warm geode]

@wet pasture thanks that worked. But now when i open reshade in game it says no file search path found

[swift bridge]

like I can move and still see what's going on

I'm playing at default speed

horizon forbidden west is a game that I find hard to parse visually

and ff16 since its all particle effects

[gaunt light]

Same problem as elden ring dlc

consert radahn

and bayle

[swift bridge]

still have to beat that

[gaunt light]

armored core 6 also has that problem

[swift bridge]

also still have to beat that

[gaunt light]

I would argue its worse than ff16 in some cases

😩

[wet pasture]

Your shaders and textures need to be wherever the reshade.ini file says they are

[gaunt light]

have you played bayonetta games

[swift bridge]

no but from what I understand they have sound cues

[steady gate]

I'm kinda getting an eye strain playing this for a while
Last time that happened was in the prison section of SH2R
This usually doesn't happen to me

Maybe I will try raising the brightness a bit

Or reducing BFF cutoff

[torpid steeple]

i hear gamingtech has some good settings

try those

[steady gate]

The game can get quite dark with gamma correction

[gaunt light]

i think its way better than indi with bff

[steady gate]

Don't put this evil on people
not even in jest

[swift bridge]

I think the stuff I did in indy with using aces min nits as gamma correction works pretty well and will carry over to doom

[gaunt light]

indi with bff looks crushed to hell to me

[swift bridge]

ya if you apply black floor fix to an aces game you need to compensate by raising the minimum nits

[gaunt light]

like a would even play without bff in some parts

[swift bridge]

by inversing the gamma corection on the min nits parameter so you end up at 0.0001 after bff

[steady gate]

But it should match SDR?
It does, from what I compared

[swift bridge]

SDR did 0.02 nits minimum in indiana jones

[gaunt light]

doom uses 0.005 nits black floor

in both sdr and hdr

probably different from indi

[torpid steeple]

i was just reading the resetera thread where someone was linking his vid as a fix for hdr so it was fresh on my mind

[gaunt light]

what the min brightness in hdr

[swift bridge]

0.0001

in SDR its only 0.02 if you set paper white to 48

[gaunt light]

Ya

[swift bridge]

well actually

that's not accounting for gamma correction

[gaunt light]

so doom is different i guess

its 0.005 nits in both modes

[steady gate]

I saw that, lol

[torpid steeple]

yeah you responded. you were too nice

[swift bridge]

the brightness slider affects minimum nits

[gaunt light]

i tested it with 1 iirc

it is not 0.0001 in hdr at least

not 100% sure about sdr

[steady gate]

Hey, at least they seemed to listen
some feller on DF discord went ballistic on me when I suggested he should use reshade instead of GT meme fix

[gaunt light]

indi is pretty close to 0 nits

[swift bridge]

where

[steady gate]

like, legit agro

[gaunt light]

Gamingtech argued its the best hdr of 2024

[swift bridge]

indy still looks pretty good without bff

[gaunt light]

ya i said that when it came out

[steady gate]

#667293056277544960 message

[gaunt light]

I would rather play without bff

because bff is just removing shadow details in some areas

is the default paper white for ACES 100 nits ?

for sdr its 48 nits right

[swift bridge]

holy shit that guy is insufferable

[swift bridge]

in hdr that seems to be how its working

exposure at default 10 is almost the same as SDR at 100 nits

[torpid steeple]

yall are making me want to sub to df for a month just to read it lol

give me a screenshot

[swift bridge]

that guy is shilling gamingtech all over the df discord

[gaunt light]

but with different defaults for min brightness right

[median fractal]

what is gt meme

[steady gate]

look up his Doom TDA HDR fix video

[median fractal]

oh that hdr youtuber

yeah

"hdr youtuber" more like

[gaunt light]

his fans are mainly console gamers

[swift bridge]

prob against rules since its paid content

[torpid steeple]

lol, true. paywalled ignorance

[steady gate]

Doesn't seem to be

[gaunt light]

do they like Johns settings in doom eternal

😆

[torpid steeple]

"he has a graph on his screen he must be a professional"

[wide pawn]

Once again

We're never beating the 'Just a reshade' allegations

[gaunt light]

lol

gamingtech fanboy ?

😅

[torpid steeple]

my blood pressure is up

[vivid sandal]

The guy seemed nice and chill

[steady gate]

Reposting so not to spam

[vivid sandal]

[wide pawn]

Weird, they believe that the graph GT is using for analysis is some sort of custom made one

not realising its coming from the same shader git that Lilium made

which also includes the BFF

[gaunt light]

this guy is worse than plasma tbh

and he is not funny

unlike plasma who is unintentionally funny

[swift bridge]

I'm 50/50

his videos have some use

in that they at least give yoiu an overview of how the game looks

settings should absolutely be ignored

but there is some value there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL2Ga5T-JM0

his opinion is nonsense

but this at least shows you how bad the hdr is

he doesn't point out the obvious issues

such as everyone turning pink

[torpid steeple]

all he cares about is 0 nit blacks and he'll sacrifice any other aspect of picture quality to get there

[gaunt light]

the key point is hes not funny

[swift bridge]

true

[gaunt light]

Perfect blacks and "specular highlights"

his best hdr of 2023 is horizon forbidden west

[swift bridge]

he said to raise highlights all the way

[gaunt light]

With his insanely bad settings

ya

similar to what john did in doom eternal

Literally lowered the dynamic range

[faint bison]

How's SK working with this game ?

[median fractal]

so they want better image quality but don't want to have to do anything to achieve it

do i understand that correctly

[torpid steeple]

more like "this is what i believe to be correct and anything that goes against that is an attack on my intelligence and character"

[karmic thicket]

low intelligence lol

[cursive meadow]

I basically did something no one ever did before using ReShade 😄 (ignoring releasing the first HDR specific shaders). So I kinda get where they are coming from.
Even other ReShade shaders can be pretty amazing in what they achieve without having access to the internal rendering pipeline.

[potent bone]

Ssr?

[swift bridge]

Screen space reflections

[potent bone]

I see should I turn those off or change them?

Im assuming it's just for performance gain?

[potent bone]

im assuming 9070xt does well in this game cuz of the better rt?

[pale isle]

This is in DF Discord?

[white talon]

My 9070 XT is ripping & tearing Doom up!

[runic crow]

I caved

the 4090 is sooooo much better

dlss perf max settings at 4k 120fps

didn't see it drop any frames

and I beat a part I was stuck on instantly

[potent bone]

4k or 1440p

[runic crow]

one thing I'm now noticing is the game's gpu load is pretty consistent

it doesn't just spike up a ton at certain points

like ff16

[fading flax]

Very happy with how the game turned out. Just wish it wasn't $70.

[indigo wing]

21 hours? damn that's an expensive boy

[gaunt light]

i get 100% in like 32 hours

nightmare difficulty

doom games have great replayability

how much it takes to beat doesnt really matter

[pale isle]

Yeah

PT means another playthrough as well.

[gaunt light]

fyi if you feel the default max fov 120 still not enough you can try +g_fov 140 launch arg

i like 140

same as i did in doom eternal

doom eternal is a shorter game, but there are tons of people play it for more than 1000 hours

[fading flax]

Played with these settings, on a controller. Configurable difficulty is such a blessing really.

[gaunt light]

i play with similar settings except 250% damage to player

[fading flax]

Wish extra lives could be disabled.

[gaunt light]

you literally can ignore them

[fading flax]

I know, but still.

Don't think it would've been hard to include considering all the other options.

[median fractal]

am i the only person playing doom for the lore

i play on normal difficulty lol

[pale isle]

idk about lore, but I'm taking my time enjoying the world and looking at things and such.

But I'm also clearing levels real fast with Ultra Nightmare, and I'd say it's definitely a more forgiving difficulty this time around than Eternal.

[median fractal]

i love doom lore. in eternal i read every lore entry and so far in DA too

[pale isle]

At least from what I remember about Eternal.

[pale isle]

You mean codex?

[median fractal]

yesx

the pages you collect

[pale isle]

I don't like how they've handled that here.

It tells me to press TAB key to open it.

But when I open it, it just opens that tab.

Not the exact codex I picked up.

[median fractal]

yeah noticed that too

might be a bug

because the wording makes it seem it should go to the collected page

[pale isle]

Seemed like it, yeah

Yeap

As far as lore goes, I appreciate what they've been trynna do with it but for the most part, I really just wanna smash things violently in this game 😛

[median fractal]

and look cool doing it

but like this all started because the demons killed the doom slayers pet rabbit

its john wick in space

[pale isle]

[steady gate]

The story is extremely up it's own ass for something so shlocky
The cutsenes are top tier tho, not just from the technical perspective, but they are a legit great direction and cinematography on display
Crazy amount of effort for something with so little value, lol

It reminds me of Resident Evil games, the story is ass but all the cutscenes are so stupidly overproduced I can't help but watch them in entirety every time I play

[karmic thicket]

fun fact: it's only 70 when you need to play it at launch, taps head

[pale isle]

I mean, the key sites are also like $50-ish, I think.

[fading flax]

More about it setting a precedent. Or continuing the trend.

At least in this case the product is high quality. But that's still a bit of a cope due to how low the bar has been recently.

[pale isle]

Oh, you meant $70 in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, I guess so.

[median fractal]

games go on sale much more quickly these days too

i guess the logic behind it is, people buying on launch are more inclined to pay more, and the people who wait anyway will pay sooner if you put it on sale earlier

and also yeah key sites

i got the deluxe giga mega edition for 85€

mainly for the soundtrack lol

[faint bison]

What is the deal with this game and SK? Does it not work properly? I haven't bought it yet but might this weekend.

are there any other major problems/issues?

any issues with reshade too?

[pale isle]

Works fine for me.

ReShade via SK, too.

Worked great day one.

Haven't had any issue personally.

[faint bison]

Oh i thought i saw everyone saying SK didn't work well with vulkan

And something about broken reflex

[wise cradle]

yeah, I'm like in chapter 18, and it's a shame that it feels like they just gave up on cutscenes in the later part of the game

also not sure if I like this whole hell/underworld/weird dimension realm locations they're doing in the game

[faint bison]

Doom isn't doom anymore.

not that it's bad

it's just not Doom

hasn't been since doom 2016

[pale isle]

I believe that's just Kal saying it, about the game itself.

With/without SK.

idk the reasoning/why, though.

[faint bison]

So no issues with Game + SK + Reshade as a reshade plugin?

hell yea

[pale isle]

But I've been playing it with this version, I believe.

I don't think I updated.

And no issues.

[pale isle]

Yeah

I load ReShade as a central install for SK

And works fine.

[faint bison]

perfect thx

But yea what i was saying before is that doom isn't doom anymore

it's some fantastical medievil scifi shit now

lol

so I'm not surprised that the story in this game makes no sense and is ridiculous

once they started throwing mythological aliens in it, i was like "the fuck is this shit"

[fading flax]

"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie; it's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

[fading flax]

Because it doesn't limit FPS below refresh like it's supposed to.

[steady gate]

I mean, the story in 2016 was actually intriguing, sure it was kept to the fringes, but it was gesturing towards some potent stuff
But then Eternal happened and it was a bunch of bullshit, and now TDA seemingly exist only to give some context to said bullshit

[fading flax]

🤷‍♂️

[white talon]

I’m using dynamic resolution scaling up to 4K everything on high w/ a select few on Ultra Nightmare

[potent bone]

What's dynamic resolution do exactly

I'm running around 150-160 fps with ultra everything with fsr on quality

Been told I should switch too xess I think

[vivid sandal]

It adjusts the resolution on-the-fly, depending on the current GPU load and the target framerate you requested

i.e. if the game considers that you are getting too close to missing that target framerate, it will adjust the resolution in hope to lighten the load

[faint bison]

I think you can't use DLSS and DR at the same time

i remember DF said they'd like that to be fixed

[vivid sandal]

Yep, that's quite a shame atm

[wise cradle]

is there any way to get more bolts for the crossbow after finishing the game? and do you end up with the exact same number you had when you beat it? like, if I want to have some bolts for doing challenges using chapter replay, do I need to save them beforehand?

[vivid sandal]

It was possible in Eternal, so hopefully they can bring it back

[faint bison]

Eternal was a lot of fun but yea I was very disappointed with the story. It's not that I need it to have an in-depth story or anything. It's just weird that it moved in that direction

But at this point I guess who cares

if it's fun it's fun

[fading flax]

You can revisit any level and all the progress is constantly saved.

[median fractal]

in games in general ... ?

that would be a wild statement

[median fractal]

for me its the opposite, i liked the depth of the lore in eternal so much more. there was definitely a change in direction, you can tell from the art style alone. 2016 has more of a mechanical look to it, while eternal and dark ages have that ornamented or divine style in the architecture and weapons

and some things that dont make much sense like where the slayer got that flying fortress

[fading flax]

Early in development, rifts in the team began to appear. Hall, who despite having wanted to develop a different game remained the lead designer and creative director for the company, did not want Doom to have the same lack of plot as Wolfenstein 3D. At the end of November he delivered a design document, which he named the Doom Bible, that described the plot, backstory, and design goals for the project. His design was a science fiction horror concept wherein scientists on the Moon open a portal from which aliens emerge. Over a series of levels the player discovers that the aliens are demons; Hell also steadily infects the level design as the atmosphere becomes darker and more terrifying. While Romero initially liked the idea, John Carmack not only disliked it but dismissed the idea of having a story at all: "Story in a game is like story in a porn movie; it's expected to be there, but it's not that important." Rather than a deep story, John Carmack wanted to focus on the technological innovations, dropping the levels and episodes of Wolfenstein in favor of a fast, continuous world.

[median fractal]

oh ok

hes talking about the og doom right

not 2016?

because i think back then he was sort of right maybe, since you weren't able to tell cinematic stories like idk last of us, god of war etc.

and if the story you'd tell is shit and doesn't make much sense then yeah just do fun gameplay and do that well

[fading flax]

John Carmack resigned from id Software in 2013.

[pale isle]

Depends on the game, but you can’t use it here, yes.

AC Shadows works fine with it, you can’t use set the DR based off DLSS in there.

[potent bone]

Hey chat

My friend is having issues I think with crashing

He told me it doesn't work for him he has my 6900xt

Ik frame Gen causes a crash lock on 7900xtx

Any other settings that might?

Or could cause it

Maybe 16gb of ram tbh

He might have 16gb of ram

[pale isle]

RAM as in, DRAM?

Or 16GB VRAM on GPU he has?

[smoky widget]

How to stop reshade pop up after every loading screen?

[pale isle]

Good question, lol. I haven't bothered to look into it.

But I think ReShade has a setting to reduce the timer or hide that welcome message altogether?

Not sure.

[wide pawn]

This finally solves that doubling of PCL I was having

[real wharf]

Lol was about to ping you about that. Bonkers stuff. Now using X4 MFG under 60 ms latency at VVR cap of 116 FPS.

[pale isle]

Yeah, native pacing feature is Godlike.

Essential in AC Shadows for me for instance.

[wet pasture]

Ooft that's sexy

[gaunt light]

what

iirc for fg with flip metering you need the normal fps limiter

[real wharf]

Dude I need to learn about flip metering and all that because everybody keep bringing up that term and I'm clueless. Haha.

#1371657523853004830 message

My experience with it so far. Way better latency, some weird interaction between SK and RTSS.

[wide pawn]

Flip metering is the reason why you have those rapid oscillation sawtooth patterns for your framegraph

It was introduced for FG with the transformer model and it's purpose is to improve FG frame pacing and reduce latency

Starting from +3.10.0

The one thing I don't understand, so I would like some clarification from someone is that flip metering is supposed to be exclusive to 5000 series due to being built into the hardware die?

Yet when I was on a 4090 I could still use flip metering and see the sawtooth pattern via measuring software. I'm guessing this is a software Vs hardware deal?

[gaunt light]

smoother but higher latency according to kal

anyway for fg without flip metering you need the dlss-g limiter

for fg with flip metering you need the low latency limiter

and sk is default to these

[wide pawn]

So the reduction in latency was down to transformer FG and the move away from using OPA, not Blackwell's flip metering?

[gaunt light]

transformer FG is unrelated

that the one reduces latency

but with worse visual quality

[gaunt light]

it probably doesnt do anything on ada

but im not 100% sure about that

[pale isle]

4090 and 5090, with FlipMeteringEnabled, reduced the latency to same levels.

[gaunt light]

all i know is that if you use fg with flip metering on ada you need the regular limiter instead of the dlss-g one

[pale isle]

At least in AC Shadows, as that's where Darktalon and I tested, before I slotted my 5090 in.

It was like ... ~15ms, I think?

[gaunt light]

do you mean lower latency on the sk panel

kal said its wrong

[pale isle]

Yeah

Oh welp.

[gaunt light]

its higher

but smoother

[pale isle]

Didn't he say that about DOOM?

Or overall?

[gaunt light]

overall

[pale isle]

Ah, nvm then.

[gaunt light]

not sure about doom

since its vulkan

might be some wired things going on

[pale isle]

I know he complained about not believing the markers in DOOM as reflex broken and what not.

[gaunt light]

reflex marker is not reliable in general

like it only shows one frame of extra latency with triple buffer vsync

but everyone knows its at least 3 frames

one thing im sure about is that you dont want to force vsync with flip metering

[pale isle]

Why?

I always had V-Sync forced with FlipMetering, at least in ACS and DOOM.

Proper flat bar, no issues.

[runic crow]

oh maybe that's why frame gen felt so laggy

[runic crow]

um I think drop late frames causes the latency to be identical to double most of the time

[pale isle]

2x FG felt laggy to you?

Did you have V-Sync enabled in NVCP?

[runic crow]

I forgot, but I probably did

[pale isle]

Something had to be cooked for you.

Cause FG shouldn't have felt laggy at all, lol

Even if you didn't enable V-Sync in NVCP but in-game only.

[runic crow]

well I mean

[pale isle]

Even Joshua liked it, and he hates FG lol.

[runic crow]

it wasn't unplayably laggy

it just didn't feel like 200fps

[pale isle]

No, it wasn't laggy at all.

Wait

wtf

200fps on 4090?

You don't play at 4K?

[runic crow]

I was on my second monitor at the time

ultrawide oled with a dead pixel

[pale isle]

Yeah, idk bro. Sounds like something was cooked at your end.

I did all comparisons.

DLSS Q, DLAA, FG/non-FG at same frame rates etc

Even without V-Sync forced in NVCP, it felt really good.

Like almost native.

[runic crow]

I'll try it with sk v-sync later

on the ultrawide

[pale isle]

And with V-Sync forced in NVCP, I couldn't tell the difference between 2x and native anymore.

[runic crow]

the tv is pretty nice though

[pale isle]

I don't even know where SK V-Sync gets applied.

[runic crow]

at the time it didn't drop a single frame with dlss perf

[pale isle]

But this was also with SK usage, so.

Well, no. SK V-Sync would apply to the value of whatever I set in SK limiter, right?

[runic crow]

wdym

[pale isle]

For DOOM, SK sets it at like 138.X, whereas in other games, it's usually 136.X

And my NVCP is always 137. So, NVCP was overriding it.

[runic crow]

yea

because the game doesn't use reflex's limiter

so kal auto enabled sk's limiter

but apparently it had issues with adding lag

he fixed it in the latest update ofc

[pale isle]

I don't have latest update, yet. I'll get it whenever he pushes it to Discord installer.

[runic crow]

regardless

[pale isle]

Had an update to 25.5.15.1 today for w/e reason.

[runic crow]

I am quite happy with how it runs on my tv

[pale isle]

Same

[runic crow]

240fps is nice and all, but idk if it'll hit the same since its not native 240fps

[gaunt light]

inconsisent fps limit

the more you alt-tab, the more broken it is

[pale isle]

When you say inconcsistent FPS limit, how do you mean? If I set 137 limit in NVCP, it won't apply to that? Every ALT+TAB will break it further?

[gaunt light]

fps will be capped lower

[runic crow]

sounds like it wouldn't be a good idea with frame gen

idk really

[gaunt light]

and it doesnt feel smooth if your fps (when uncapped) is a lot higher than your refresh rate

the 576 driver improved a bit

but its probably fine in doom

because vulkan reflex + vsync doesnt even cap the framerate

[runic crow]

ngl I'm on 566.36

[gaunt light]

well it seems like they fix the inconsistent fps cap

[pale isle]

But I've never had that issue in any other game either

Was this something introduced in recent shitshow of drivers?

[pale isle]

And exclusive to 50 series?

[gaunt light]

yeah someone also talked about that in SK

[pale isle]

I'm banned from SK, so can't read that chat, sadly.

[gaunt light]

it will lose performance over time and can stutter

[pale isle]

Oh no, I read that. Just not sure if I had to read rest of the chat to get context 😄

Forwarded msgs work fine, thankfully.

[runic crow]

so frame gen is a no go

[pale isle]

Right, but as you said, seems like they've fixed it now?

[runic crow]

got it

[gaunt light]

what did you do to get banned

[pale isle]

what

[gaunt light]

i rarely talk there

[runic crow]

I thought it was because of flip meter

[pale isle]

Was discussing politics and got the boot.

[runic crow]

special k disables that automatically iirc

[pale isle]

Depends on games, I guess.

But it auto enabled it in ACS.

[gaunt light]

with no flip metering you just force vsync in nvcp

but not for vulkan games

[pale isle]

But here's how my experience has been.

[runic crow]

rip

so don't use frame gen basically

got it

[gaunt light]

for vulkan games you need fps cap

because reflex + vsync doesnt cap the framerate

[runic crow]

yeahhhh I suppose, but it might still tear sometimes

[gaunt light]

which means vsync latency

you dont want that with FG

[gaunt light]

vsync + limiter the same time

for vulkan games

with no flip metering

[real wharf]

HAHA! Since when?

[pale isle]

4090, and then 5090.

AC Shadows, and now DOOM. Only two big AAA titles I can cite.

V-Sync forced enabled in NVCP, and FlipMetering enabled = smooth AF, rock solid bar, no inconsistencies, etc. Even without rock solid bar, everything was smooth AF, like my frames varying from 100-137 or w/e.

V-Sync not forced in NVCP, but in-game (in the case of DOOM): unless the bar was rock solid, it was a mess. It'd feel bad, laggy, etc. But if my bar was solid, no issues at all.

[runic crow]

so special k disables flip metering for doom?

[pale isle]

Errr ... since I've been more active here, lmao.

idk, 3 weeks now?

Maybe less?

I forget.

[gaunt light]

vsync + flip metering fg will get unsmooth if your fps is too high when uncapped (or the gpu usage is too low when capped)

[runic crow]

ban appeal to kal didn't work 😔

[pale isle]

#1371673491912265828 message this as well, @gaunt light

Might help with more input.

My experience only, of course. And Ersh's.

Oh, and Ondow Musa, I believe.

[real wharf]

Is this intended or a VK bug?

[pale isle]

But not sure if Ondow tested it.

[gaunt light]

no idea

there are only like 2 games with vk reflex

indiana jones and doom tda

[real wharf]

I did, but was not able to tell if Ersh method was better or placebo. Felt better, but NV Overlay reported the same PCLat.

[pale isle]

Right, but I'm never uncapped. I always have a cap of 137 applied via NVCP, and in SK's case, it's usually 136.X so NVCP doesn't interfere when using SK. But in DOOM's case it was 138.X so NVCP always got applied.

So, since I always had a cap, thus I never ran into those issues?

[gaunt light]

if your fps when uncapped is not much higher than your refresh its fine (we are only talking about flip metering)

[pale isle]

Ah, gotcha

Yeah, I'm always running close to that limit anyway.

Since AAA games and all, would never really go that higher.

[gaunt light]

with no metering just force vsync

[pale isle]

I guess I'd have to significantly lower settings, or try really light weight games for that.

[gaunt light]

ya that makes sense then

[real wharf]

Latest SK build helped bringing MFG X4 PCLat to an impressive 40ish ms at a cap of 115 FPS. Now the weirdest thing ever happened...

[gaunt light]

the inconsistent fps cap seems to be fixed

i tested with 572.xx driver

[pale isle]

Right

[gaunt light]

cyberpunk and alan wake 2

[pale isle]

So, even if I play some really lightweight shit

It shouldn't matter.

[gaunt light]

the fps cap is very inconsistent

[pale isle]

As it's fixed now.

But for argument's sake.

How much higher are we talking where this would've fucked up?

[gaunt light]

on my 120hz screen it was from 90 to 116

[pale isle]

Like my panel is 144Hz, would my uncapped FPS need to be around 200 or more?

[gaunt light]

complete mess

[real wharf]

SK/ SK + RTSS async.

[gaunt light]

ya probably

[pale isle]

Shouldn't this be not an issue, though? Since it's not higher than your panel, but lower?

[gaunt light]

but this seem to be fixed

[gaunt light]

no i mean the gpu usage dropped

thats the issue

[pale isle]

Ahhhhhh, okay.

Since this seems to have been a driver issue, seems like it was also not 1:1 recreation for everyone, only if you ran into those driver shenanigans, etc.

Akin to those blackscreen issues.

i.e. I never had a single driver issue, no blackscreen, etc.

So, it was happening, but not as widespread perhaps?

[gaunt light]

someone in SK server and marat (iirc) both found that issue

[pale isle]

Either way, good to know.

[gaunt light]

but if the fps cap is fixed i think its fine

because you can override the reflex cap with a normal one with flip metering on

[real wharf]

This weird thing happens to me if I force V-Sync on in some titles. I have the theory/feeling that it happens with games that you install after a driver update. If you just reinstall the drivers it becomes normal again, with no random FPS caps.

[gaunt light]

and the frame pacing is better than the reflex cap

the reflex cap or the dlss-g mode from sk should both offer lower latency though

[gaunt light]

its pretty random

alt-tab can increase the frequency

[gaunt light]

lol

[torpid steeple]

noooo i should be able to play cutting edge AAA games on my gtx 1060 for 20 yearssss

[wide pawn]

Games dont look better than they did 10 years ago so yes, that is completely justifiable /s

[karmic thicket]

young gamers should be forced to play old games on pc, with all their weird screen mode and port issues from the 2000s or earlier
just so they can understand what some went through

they got it far too easy these days

[pale isle]

Cranky boomer energy from V-Sync.

[karmic thicket]

it would give them a frame of reference

[pale isle]

They’ll close it and never launch it again. It won’t give them shit.

[indigo wing]

games from the 2000s got MSAA tho

[pale isle]

More entertaining mobile games for them to play instead then.

[indigo wing]

[pale isle]

[karmic thicket]

[pale isle]

They got Dio emote, wow.

[indigo wing]

but seriously tho, the reason why people are angry is that even modern gpus struggle with RT, you pay 400 euro, get a 5060ti 8gb and get shafted

people miss the times when you could pay 400 euro, get a 1070ti and play every game at native 100 fps

[real wharf]

Battlefront II will be 10 years in 2027...

[karmic thicket]

thats because 8gb gpus shouldnt even exist but companies are evil as fuck

[sick badge]

The only thing that bugs me with this topic the past few years is "gamers " saying that games shouldn't push technological boundaries if the hardware isnt fast enough
Which i strongly disagree with
Games should be made without hardware in mind
An "optimized" game for them is a game where you can use ULTRA settings and get 120+ fps regardless of what is actually going on in the scene
"gamers " telling devs to not increase textures and settings so they can just max it out and get more fps instead of lowering the settings to get your desired frame rate

[karmic thicket]

thats when you whip out the "technology marches forwards 24/7 fuck your feelings"

[wide pawn]

Well gamers were also critiquing every game under the sun from last gen for 'being a downgrade'

But now they don't want tech advancements

[sick badge]

The idea of lowering down settings make them puke

[karmic thicket]

yeah i dont like that attitude either tbh

your crappy midrange gpu wont be able to do ultra, cry about it

i do think devs should do a better job at setting graphics settings for the players though, particularly resolution and refresh rate.

too often you have to set resolution and refresh rate when it's the first launch and it's really irritating.

[gaunt light]

gtx480 flagship gpu from 2010, struggled to get 30fps in the witcher 3, a game released just 5 years after

[wide pawn]

980ti was also in the 30s at ultra 4K

[indigo wing]

witcher 3 was notoriously heavy thoughj

[indigo wing]

ity was not a 4k card

4k was an exotic resolution at that time

[karmic thicket]

never in my life did i imagine spending 2k on a graphics card though, so i do understand why people hold onto cards for as long as they are working

[gaunt light]

there were tons of game ran like it

[indigo wing]

such as?

[gaunt light]

Any non cross gen game in 2015

doom 2016 ran at 40-50 on a gtx580 at 1080p low settings

and everyone consider it well optimized

[indigo wing]

5 years difference when every gen you got a 50% perf increase and every gen released like 15 months apart

and paid like a third of the cost to upgrade

the reality is that perf increases are stagnating, but hardware demands keep on going while prices are going up

people are justifyable anrgy, but at the wrong thing

[karmic thicket]

8gb gpus should've died 5 years ago

[gaunt light]

can you imagine that a game released now runs at 1080 sub 60 fps with low settings on a 3090 is considered well optimized

but that was how doom 2016 was back then

[sick badge]

You have a game

ULTRA settings give you 60 fps
MEDIUM settings give you 120 fps
LOW settings give you 240 fps

"Gamers 🤢 " will not be happy to "downgrade" to MEDIUM settings and they tell you to not push tech advancements just so they can max out the game with their 1060ti

You remove ULTRA settings and replace it with MEDIUM and so on for the rest of presets
So now you have the same game but here is the updated settings

ULTRA settings give you 120 fps
MEDIUM settings gives you 240 fps

All the devs did is change the names and remove ULTRA settings

So the "gamers 🤮 " who did not want to "downgrade" to MEDIUM settings are playing with MEDIUM settings but they dont know it since its labeled as ULTRA and will call the game "optimized" because you can max out the game and get 120fps

"Gamers "

[indigo wing]

the 580 released for 500usd, the 3090 for 1500

even with inflation adjusted it's ridiculous

[gaunt light]

a 3070 then

still same conclusion

[indigo wing]

I have no idea how well the 3070 runs doom the dark ages but I can't image it being very well

[gaunt light]

3070 is faster than 4060

[indigo wing]

and the 30 series was a good value gen

[gaunt light]

lol

[indigo wing]

compared to the 20, 40 and 50 series

[karmic thicket]

instead of todd howard telling people to upgrade their gpus, it should be the idtech guys

[gaunt light]

here you go

3070 in doom tda

definitely better than gtx580 in doom 2016

but so many people are crying about "forced RT"

[karmic thicket]

fuck em

[gaunt light]

and no you didnt have dlss to save your ass back then

[karmic thicket]

it is the future and it's not going away

[gaunt light]

40 series is not that bad

[karmic thicket]

4090 is a beast

[gaunt light]

except the initial msrp for the og 4080

thats bad

[indigo wing]

ye nah that's cap

[indigo wing]

and I never saw it at msrp

it was effecitvely an 1800 euro card

[karmic thicket]

some people did though

[pale isle]

Bought it at MSRP few months after launch.

And it stayed at MSRP for a really long time.

Steve and Roman discuss just this in their latest video as well.

[gaunt light]

i bought my 4090 at msrp as well

[pale isle]

When talking about stock drying up.

Just in case you believe we’re lying

[karmic thicket]

im a firm believer of if you can't buy it at msrp, you don't need it

[pale isle]

It definitely had its rocky times where it was hard to find, apart from third-party sellers.

But it had a longer window of it being available at MSRP.

As for 1800 EURO, isn’t that good pricing for EU anyway?

You shouldn’t be expecting same MSRP in EU as you see in States.

Not that it even costs the same in States anyway after taxes. But States is the cheapest nation in the world when it comes to goods, electronics especially.

1800 sounds like a good price for 4090 brand new, based on all the E.U. people I’ve talked to in SK on pricing discussions.

[indigo wing]

zotac trinity oc 4090

[indigo wing]

fucking shit

we're talking about a card that costs about as much as a second hand car

[gaunt light]

i think it still depends on where you are specifically

[indigo wing]

this is a month of minimum wage work

[pale isle]

Okay and?

You were complaining about it not being available at MSRP, not that it’s priced that high.

It’s an enthusiast grade GPU, you can play games on lower tier ones as well. You don’t NEED that ultra preset.

[gaunt light]

if you are in Switzerland, 1800 is not that expensive

[pale isle]

Like your argument is changing to apples and oranges now.

[indigo wing]

1.779 was msrp, the cheapest 4090 never hit that

my point is that prices are extremely high, while salaries aren't going up, people are angry that they need to spend as much as a car to get a top of the line card.