▫️RDR1 & Undead Nightmare

[echo hazel]

GPU limited: GPU sits at 99%
CPU limited: one core sits at ~90%+ usage all the time
So it only leaves the system RAM

[nimble grotto]

if you lower your cpu clock speed, the fps is lower

is that considered a cpu bottomneck ?

[echo hazel]

Not necessarily I would say. If the CPU becomes the constraining factor then yes. A single core's usage not being at close 100% means that there are issues somewhere else.

[nimble grotto]

this is exactly how RDR1 bahaves

[echo hazel]

I knew you would make this argument

[nimble grotto]

if i can get more fps with higher cpu clock speed, i would still consider it a cpu bottomneck

but you can call it engine limitation or whatever

[echo hazel]

51/58 = 0.88
121/147 = 0.82

[nimble grotto]

the fps is kinda bouncing a bit

its 124/145 btw

roughly matched

but i know what you mean

i do not disagree with you, but thats my definition of cpu bottomneck

maybe we call it a cpu scaling issue

that should make more sense

[echo hazel]

No publication has benchmarked this game properly yet. I bet a 7800X3D would run this game a lot better than any non 3D vcache CPU

[nimble grotto]

maybe

7800x3d doesnt do well in some old engines, but still need to be tested

[potent timber]

This is brilliant; you're just changing the whole definition of CPU-bottleneck just to be able to say you're still right about it. Interesting....

[nimble grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qB7BkRtOpg

go watch this video

[potent timber]

To avoid spreading misinformation; this is definitely not a CPU-bottleneck (for reasons Lilium explained) and most likely indeed a memory speed/memory bus speed issue.

[potent timber]

Please explain 🙂

[nimble grotto]

go watch it

[potent timber]

Please explain why that validates your opinion. Not gonna watch a 35 minute video man haha

[nimble grotto]

then we do not talk

just block me

[potent timber]

"Can you please explain instead of making me watch a 35 minute video?" --> "I refuse to talk, just block me" 🤣

[nimble grotto]

luckily someone make a TLDR for you

[potent timber]

But me and Lilium weren't talking about overall CPU-usage (which indeed can be hugely misleading, you're fully right on that), but per core usage. Per core usage actually says a loooot more and can be actually a measurement of a CPU-bottleneck

As you can easily see if a game might be very single-threaded and having one or more cores locked at high percentage of usage while the other cores aren't much utilized at all. That shows a typical CPU-bottleneck in my view. Also how DF always shows it.

[potent timber]

Sorry for the little bit of mocking btw. Just getting used to my newly found non-moderation freedom haha

[potent timber]

Btw, now noticing this post has some weirdness though; GPU usage below 100% doesn't per se indicated a GPU bottleneck of course, then likely something else is the bottleneck. But it is indeed making my same argument as how single-threaded performance could be a CPU-bottleneck that is causing the GPU to be underutilized.

[nimble grotto]

i think the problem is that this game cant even utilize one threads enough

like always below 50%

[potent timber]

It likely can't, because again, something else is bottlenecking this. But our whole argument is likely based on us having a totally different definition of CPU-bottlenecks.

[nimble grotto]

the callisto protocol has same behavior when it came out

check the ryzen 3600 per core usage

DF still call it cpu limited

[echo hazel]

Tldr says:
CPU usage below 100%: unknown

[nimble grotto]

it should be unknow

games can never use 100% of your cpu

except shader compilation

[echo hazel]

In layman terms: it's a CPU bottleneck
In non layman terms: it's not

[nimble grotto]

in my terms if you can get more fps by increasing your cpu clock speed, it is cpu limited

[potent timber]

in the video I see on both sides one core being more heavily utilized up to 70% or so... still seems like a CPU-limit indeed or maybe something else. The numbers are not totally clear on this here to be honest.

[nimble grotto]

maybe just call it bad opitimization

[potent timber]

But what if you use a very crappy integrated graphics chip, causing huge slowdowns, you would then still call that CPU-limited when combined with the newest AMD/Intel CPU?

[nimble grotto]

you should get 100% or 99% gpu usage on a igpu

[echo hazel]

What if I told you that if the memory is stalling, it's a trickle down effect?

[nimble grotto]

i definitely will

like if you go single channel memory, you lose performace when not gpu limited for sure

but as i said earlier

[potent timber]

Could also be that the GPU-bus is the limiting factor, thus the GPU usage being below 90%, but still getting bottlenecked. But then thus a GPU-bus speed bottleneck.

[nimble grotto]

this is the case whether you consider out of vram is gpu limited

vram speed will afffect gpu performance

[potent timber]

Out of VRAM = out of GPU memory, yes, would call that a GPU-bottleneck

as it is part of the GPU itself, fundamentally

[nimble grotto]

ram speed will affact cpu performance

[potent timber]

RAM speed != VRAM speed

[nimble grotto]

thats where things goes controversial

my bad

typo

[potent timber]

idk, your definitions are seemingly a bit different than what is widely accepted apparently, causing this whole discussion

[nimble grotto]

ram is not a part of the cpu itselt

[potent timber]

VRAM is

[nimble grotto]

like if you run out of system memory and lose performance

[potent timber]

VRAM != RAM

[nimble grotto]

it isnt a cpu bottleneck for sure

but when you run out of vram it is gpu bottleneck right ?

[potent timber]

if you have fully utilized VRAM then yes, no CPU-bottleneck

[potent timber]

Yes

[nimble grotto]

i know what you mean then

[vocal vector]

You could have said the game is single core limited

and yes that is a cpu bottleneck in a way as far as I understand things

and yes, GTA IV is the same way, running the game with DXVK eliminates some of this as it makes the game utilize the GPU more

[potent timber]

#1293211621715345428 message To my knowledge you can't draw that conclusion really from this post as ALL cores of the CPU are heavily underutilized.

Ow wait, you meant Callisto

[vocal vector]

ill be honest

the game ( rdr1) runs well enough I think that even if something is limited it doesnt really matter

its not like gta iv where teh game wont even hit 144 fps on the newest and bestest hardware due to cpu shinenigans when u go out on the street

but that is of course a DX9 game

[nimble grotto]

yeah, if gta4 is dx12, should be much better

rdr1 runs fine on mordern hardware

still too demanding for a 14 years old game if you ask me

but gta4 is another story, it runs poorly on the lastet hardware without mods/tweaks

[static basin]

I mean I did that for durante's game (ys10) and posted my mod

and I got tons of happy comments like "ty, I was going to give up on the hdr but I found your mod"

but I didnt post on reddit, I posted on the steam forums

[potent timber]

Agree honestly

But yeah, could run better... who knows, maybe they'll patch it up a bit to overcome this limitation? The same team released post-launch patches for the console-versions, so...

There is hope

[mossy hare]

Someone should try PresentMon to look at the CPU busy/GPU busy results
I think SK has that too, unless it doesn't work on this game

[mossy hare]

Making the game multithreded would be a significant engineering effort, I don't think they can realistically do anything besides lowering the CPU overhead, assuming there is a room for the improvement left

[potent timber]

Sadly don't want to caugh up 50 bucks for this

[potent timber]

Haha, quite amusing to see; polly25 was thus very likely not right as the game doesn't seem to be CPU-limited at all. So, making the game more multithreaded will likely make 0 difference

See: #1293211621715345428 message

All based on #1293211621715345428 message

[mossy hare]

It really depends on your definition of what is an CPU bottleneck, but I've seen Lilium already clarified that
I don't think polly is entirely out of line calling it a CPU bottleneck

Hence why I think CPU busy graph would clarify this (maybe?)

[potent timber]

So, if polly25's image shows core utilization that is most often similar to what it shows in the image he provided, everything me and lilium said should be true

[mossy hare]

It's an argument over the semantics anyway

[potent timber]

But high CPU busy means it is waiting on something else and thus NOT CPU-limited. Right?

[potent timber]

Probably, but still finds his definition of CPU-limited very weird when the bottleneck is likely not the CPU at all 😅

But yeah, I'm going on far too long about this

[mossy hare]

Yeah I'm not seeing a single CPU core being hammered in the screenshots he posted

So who knows

[potent timber]

Hence our argument against it being a CPU-bottleneck.

You can take yourself as an example haha, as when someone like polly says something that is likely not true, but says it often enough, people will assume it to be true

Hence I argued against it to prevent that, but always a hard time finding a good balance if I'm honest

[mossy hare]

I think the problem here is that the game simply doesn't utilize the resources available, but it is an X360 game at it's core, it's probably the best they could do with the old code

[mossy hare]

The way DXVK makes the games run better on widows continue to be baffling to me
Like, old DX9 game like GTA4 I can understand, but what about the modern unreal engine stuff
Here's some videos of FF7 remake I've recorded the other day for the twitter argument, Vulcan conversion layer smokes the native DX12 implementation in terms of frametimes
https://youtu.be/4qNut3dRUSo
https://youtu.be/H_jV_n7cxRg

[potent timber]

#1293211621715345428 message Could be the actual reason. That one resource is completely utilized (memory speed), bottlenecking all others, like GPU, CPU, HDD/SSD speed etc.

[mossy hare]

Could be

[potent timber]

Curious if DF is able to give us more clarity about this when their analysis comes out. Alex said in the DF Weekly that he is looking into it.

I mean into the game, not this specific issue

[echo hazel]

async compute and the CPU work of an API being decently multi threaded

[mossy hare]

This is regular DXVK
Both runs on the warm shader cache

[echo hazel]

Wonder how much difference there is between vkd3d for dx12 and DXVK for dx11

[mossy hare]

does vkd3d work on windows?

native DX11 runs even worse than DX12

https://youtu.be/5Z32y_hAs30

[echo hazel]

Yeah works decently well under Nvidia iirc. You need the dxgi.dll from dxvk

[mossy hare]

hmmm

[echo hazel]

async compute not async shader compilation

[mossy hare]

ahh ok

Well I guess I know what I'm doing today

I will never finish GoWR 😅

[echo hazel]

GCN had async compute on the consoles since PS4 gen. Nvidia got it the first time with RTX 2000 series.
It was a console exclusive feature for a while

Only dx12 and Vulkan support it

[mossy hare]

Yeah but is async compute related to the smoother frame times?

or is it just multithreading?

[mossy hare]

do I only need d3d12 or both d3d12 and d3d12core?

[echo hazel]

everything

[echo hazel]

compute shaders running faster

[mossy hare]

so the game on PC doesn't use async compute despite being an dx12 app, and DXVK/Vulcan forces it?

Am I getting this right?

[echo hazel]

no dx11 does not support it

[mossy hare]

vkd3d is about the same as DX12 in FF7R
DX11 with DXVK runs best by far
Also, HDR doesn't work, so

[echo hazel]

also dx12 and vulkan requires devs to write a driver basically

[echo hazel]

yeah kinda thought as much because dx12 is much more "set in stone"

[mossy hare]

The worst part is that Rebirth apparently makes a heavy use of the mesh shaders, so DXVK probably won't be an option for that one

[echo hazel]

yeah I think mesh shaders are not a thing in dx11

[echo hazel]

you can easily test this by how fast my HDR analysis shader runs in dx11 vs dx12

[crimson ocean]

Btw. Going back to the menu from the game actual reboots the executable. Crazy 😅

[wicked marlin]

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption/mods/243?tab=description

I'm just gonna wait until all the main characters get the same treatment

[vocal vector]

I never saw a huge benefit for simple upscaled texture personally

[wicked marlin]

maybe look at the difference there

not all AI upscales are created equal

[potent timber]

I think the main problem of the game is low poly count of some models. Increasing the texture quality might only make this issue more noticeable

[mighty palm]

i'd rather wait for a project that touches up everything, yeah

from what i see of the coverphoto that doesn't look like a bad upscale either way

[wicked marlin]

That's a ridiculous notion, something like that happens when people do ultra high res textures with a different conflicting style

[wintry zinc]

Mario in unreal engine

The character models don’t seem bad poly wise

So the ai upscales seem good

[wicked marlin]

They aren't, it's the terrible low res and poorly compressed textures

They should have gone back to their archives to use the source textures before htey got downscaled and compresed, for the new console and PC release

[potent timber]

Nice to see my view being respected 😂

[potent timber]

Agree, there it looked good, here it might too, just had some doubts

[wicked marlin]

installing some mods on this game is a total pain in the ass

esspecially texture mods

you have to extract game archives and repack them, browse directories manually

[potent timber]

Works that way for almost all RAGE games. That's what OpenIV was often used for.

[crimson ocean]

please do not talk like that.

you can express the same concept without being aggressive.

[wicked marlin]

saying that a notion is ridiculous is tantamount to being aggressive?

[crimson ocean]

yes. It contributes to a negative and toxic enviroment.
You can simply say "I don't personally agree".
Given anything you say is your own opinion, just like the opinion you just classified as "ridiculous".
Be humble and open please.

[wicked marlin]

I don't agree with what you're claiming, but have it your way.

[crimson ocean]

so what is it:

• You are smarter than everybody else?
• Your opinion is of higher relevance because you are superior?
• You want to fight about anything because everything in this world is a matter of life or death?
• You are trolling and take pleasure in people being diminished and offended?

[vocal vector]

its not so bad

https://github.com/ThirteenAG/WidescreenFixesPack/releases/tag/rdr

Make sure you have the universal asi leader in the form of dinput8.dll (comes packaged with the linked fusionfix)
Create an UPDATE/GAME folder in your  main RDR directory, put the updated game files there (like content.rpf, etc) these updated files will be loaded over the game's base files.

at least this way you dont have to worry about reinstalling your game if u mess up anything

and using magic RDR is pretty easy its basically a winrar like utility

And about AI upscales in general I just don't see that much reason to update 1 or 2 characters and leave the rest low res, either upscale a bunch of things so the lower res assets dont stand out or just dont upscale at all.

Plus RAGE engine games always have very weird internal memory optimization issues after you add a certain number of extra assets. Normally in the form of spawn issues or certain parts of the maps stop loading in (like seen with gta iv). Only the future will tell what limitation we will find with RDR1

[wicked marlin]

Your mind is clearly made up, as shown by your four propositions (thanks for painting such a villainous portrait btw), so why even ask me. That's why I said let's just have it your way then

[wintry zinc]

Only issue is that in games like RDR2 and gta v it balloons the install size

Cause you have to have a duplicate of the entire packed file

[vocal vector]

rdr2 works differently than gta v

rdr 2 only has lennys mod loader for now and that doesnt require duplicates of packed files

every file u put in lml essentially ''replaces'' or gets streamed into the game instead of the original

[wicked marlin]

RDR2 is so unstable if you install some texture replacements

I had to do an insane amount of "downsizing" of the mods I had installed to just a few to stop it being a crashfest

[vocal vector]

im kind of an expernt in RDR2 modding boundaries now

so if uhave crashes I i can help

usually caused by some bad .asi mods

most of the time, anyway

[wintry zinc]

I would still get some bugs with the online content unlockers that people would say are fixed

Like not being able to donate to homeless people

[vocal vector]

yea those were ironed out I think a few months back

those bugs

[wintry zinc]

Is there a preferred online content unlocker

[vocal vector]

yea the one that is called 'online content unlocker'

the other one is version.dll - do not use that

also do not use WHYEM's DLC

which is a propular clothing mod but wil lalways cause huge issues like trains not spawning/ trains spawning without any passengers, reduced wildlife spawns

also do not use JOBS expanded or bounties expansion mods as those are guaranteed to crash your game

other mods that will guaranteed to crash your game is the old back holster's mod wich replaces some rifle strap .ydr files

that will crash your game after 15m or so

there is a newer alternative that replaces some talismans if you really want to have back rifle holsters for some reason

[wicked marlin]

is DX12 still unstable with texture replacements

[vocal vector]

DX12 had some missing effects for me like the oil spread underwater in the contaminated lake near the mine

Vulkan fixes that and gives better performance (5-8 fps usually)

but I wouldnt say DX12 by itself is worse with texture mods

I just simply wouldnt use any upscaled textures in RDR2

so redundant and again, internal memory of the game cant handle it because of current lml limitations, which basically streams the added files on top of the files

[wicked marlin]

there was one or two mods that make a noticeable improvement, specifically with really low res environment textures

and one mod which simply fixes textures using low res variants of stuff that exists in higher res

[vocal vector]

yes high res texture unlockers are fine

but ones that add like 2gb of assets

-no

[wicked marlin]

they also crashes in vulkan for me

just less maybe

[vocal vector]

crashes are never good

it takes time to figure out what makes u crash

basically u should never really crash even when modded

maybe if u are doing specific missions specific mods could cause a crash

but if u are crashing just in the open world that is not great

I spent teh past month actively modding RDR2, figuring out crashes, merging mods

im planning to do sort of a tutorial for it thats why am doing this

[wicked marlin]

I'll read it

for next playthrough

[vocal vector]

READ?

[wicked marlin]

or watch

whatever

[vocal vector]

yea aint nobody got time to read

[umbral cradle]

I'm currently using this and trying it out, so far it looks really good tbh https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption/mods/219?tab=description

[wicked marlin]

most of the retextures in it don't look very good but I like the rest

I was using it when I briefly played the game on emulator

[umbral cradle]

its my first time playing with it rn

and its not the best but i def prefer it over the vanilla textures

hows the hdr in this game, i havent checked it with lilliums shaders or anything yet

i hate the sliders not showing any numbers tho lol

[wicked marlin]

it's SDR in HDR container

[umbral cradle]

better to use sk hdr than the native one ?

[wicked marlin]

no

just have to be conservative with the sliders

[umbral cradle]

i just set them up using the ingame picture examples i guess, havent really had a different choice

[wicked marlin]

so GTA V on PC might be finally getting the ray tracing added to consoles years ago

next month

the news post from Rockstar is vague but seems like it's hinting this

[vocal vector]

cool stuff

along with online animals coming ::D

[potent timber]

From their wording of as well as plans to bring the much-requested PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S features of GTA Online to the PC platform in the new year I suspect it will only be the functional improvements and not the visual ones. Hope I'm wrong here though.

[wicked marlin]

it's vague so it can go either way

[potent timber]

Well, as they only mention "the features of GTA Online", I suspect it sadly will go as I said 😦

[wintry zinc]

what features did expanded and enhanced even bring other than visual and dualsense haptics/triggers

For those that are unaware, the Expanded and Enhanced version of GTA 5 (which is just what the PS5 and Xbox Series versions are called) added a bunch of content that has remained exclusive, such as Hao's Special Works, Premium Test Ride, Career Build and Progress, and a bunch of different vehicles.

oof might just be those

[potent timber]

idk really honestly, not familiar with GTA Online

[wintry zinc]

ya i dont play online either

[vocal vector]

only children play GTAO in my experience

last time I played it was back on PS3

I imagine its the worst thing ever on PC due to all the mod menu users

[sharp sphinx]

Last time I played GTAO hackers dropped cash for hours and I bought everything

Then I used the orbital laser to blow up like 12 people that were doing a car showcase

[mighty palm]

They’ve supposedly been working on E&E for the PC

so

I’d hope, but we’ll see.

it’s also been so long that I’m not sure I am remembering that right lmao

[potent timber]

E&E?

[mighty palm]

expanded and enhanced. that's the uhh. PS5/xbox whatever remaster for GTA

[wicked marlin]

there were references found in update files pertaining to RT on PC almost a year ago

[mighty palm]

yeah i thought i remembered that

[potent timber]

Here is to hoping they will bring RT to PC 🍺

[mighty palm]

so, does anyone

get terrible stutter?

like it just drops in FPS immensely depending on where im looking

its very grating and id love to play it without that being an issue

im playing at 120 FPS so idk if that's the FPS cap thing coming into play

[vocal vector]

no

only in cutscenes

[crimson ocean]

I think this game looks wonderful with PumboAdvancedAutoHDR
It's the perfect fit for it. Fake HDR, with a good bit depth already.

Inverse tonemapping can also look good if u are crazy enough

[wicked marlin]

On top of the native HDR?

[crimson ocean]

there is no HDR in there, not a single pixel outside of the 0-80 nits SDR range

so basically I run AutoHDR within the native HDR buffer

kinda like how we use PumboAutoHDR on DXVK

[stone isle]

May I ask about your exact settings?

[crimson ocean]

I'll share them later.

[sturdy marsh]

How to jump to the very top of this thread?

[potent timber]

Scroll up

Very fast

Or click on this: #1293211621715345428 message

[mossy hare]

There is also "jump to top" arrow near the pins and member list icon
at least on desktop browser

[crimson ocean]

and btw, they are basically default.

I make sure the default values of anything I make are already good 😄

[wicked marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/impressive-very-nice-patrick-bateman-gif-15247511

[nimble grotto]

stock setting does look already good enough

[crimson ocean]

Set the HDR brightness to minimum in the game, and the input HDR white level to 100 in my ReShade.

[crimson ocean]

Why is the input mode sRGB?

Set it to auto.

I don't think there's a gamma mismatch in this game so it doesn't require fixing

[crimson ocean]

#🖼️hdr-screenshots message

[nimble grotto]

i did not turn on the in game hdr

[crimson ocean]

You can't use AutoHDR then, unless you use SK or something

[nimble grotto]

i use the autohdr addon from reshade

[crimson ocean]

right.

[vocal vector]

but Pumbo's is ADVANCED autoHDR

so u know is better

[crimson ocean]

https://youtu.be/fKt43cqGq_0
Fake HDR exposed!

[wicked marlin]

dude what, he said it's similar to RDR2 HDR

in that game it's only the cinematic setting that is fake technically

[wintry zinc]

guess he meant rdr2 on launch

but that was also mismatched gamma

and still 8 bit

this is definitely better

and rdr2 has fucked up ui blending too

[wicked marlin]

he says similar to RDR2 HDR which is SDR in an HDR container

[wintry zinc]

ya

its the same here

[wicked marlin]

that held true for like a month or two until they patched it

and on the initial console release

[wintry zinc]

i think it was several months

dont recall

[wicked marlin]

on PC we had Game HDR from day 1

[wintry zinc]

ah true

at least there's a separate ui brightness slider here so you can use inverse tonemapping without a super bright UI

[nimble grotto]

so it does look different from the console verision ?

i dont remember how the xbox360 version looks though, that should be the "original version"

[echo hazel]

there is a shader called XBOX360 gamma emulation

Musa did you ever check what gamma that shader was set to in SDR?

iirc you mentioned it being gamma 2.35 in HDR

[wintry zinc]

that shader i sent ends with 1/2.2

[wintry zinc]

the gamma in hdr is ever so slightly more contrasty than 2.2

like 2.25 or something

[wintry zinc]

2.35 is what the gamma slider in silent hill 2 defaults to

[echo hazel]

ok I probably misremembered then

[nimble grotto]

did the xbox360 verision use some wired gamma or something ?

[echo hazel]

here that one
the gamma is a variable here

[echo hazel]

yes

[wintry zinc]

the 1/2.2 was at the end of the postfx shader

[echo hazel]

what 2.6:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/943500-just-cause-2/54079899

[wintry zinc]

https://github.com/mqhaji/renodx/blob/rdr1/src/games/rdr1/PSRDR2PostfxOptics_0xEEEE53C5.ps_6_0.hlsl#L306

[echo hazel]

it's not 2.6 lol

here:
https://xenia.jp/updates/2021/04/27/leaving-no-pixel-behind-new-render-target-cache-3x3-resolution-scaling.html

https://xenia.jp/images/posts/2021-04-27-leaving-no-pixel-behind-new-render-target-cache-3x3-resolution-scaling/gamma_curve.png

[nimble grotto]

the xbox360 version of the Vanquish is much darker than any other version iirc

[shrewd lotus]

is it just reinhard in there?

[nimble grotto]

thats a really wired gamma curve

[wintry zinc]

they sample some tonemap texture

https://github.com/mqhaji/renodx/blob/rdr1/src/games/rdr1/postfxoptics.hlsl#L155
version with named variables

[shrewd lotus]

float _171 = BrightPassValues.z;
  float _172 = _93 + 0.001;
  float _173 = _171 / _172;

  float _174 = _167 * _173;
  float _175 = _168 * _173;
  float _176 = _169 * _173;

  float _178 = White;
  float _179 = _174 / _178;
  float _180 = _175 / _178;
  float _181 = _176 / _178;

  float _182 = _179 + 1.000;
  float _183 = _180 + 1.000;
  float _184 = _181 + 1.000;

  float _185 = _182 * _174;
  float _186 = _183 * _175;
  float _187 = _184 * _176;

  float _188 = _174 + 1.000;
  float _189 = _175 + 1.000;
  float _190 = _176 + 1.000;

  float _191 = _185 / _188;
  float _192 = _186 / _189;
  float _193 = _187 / _190;

  float _194 = _191 + _52;
  float _195 = _192 + _53;
  float _196 = _193 + _54;

  float _198 = ConstAdd.x;
  float _199 = ConstAdd.y;
  float _200 = ConstAdd.z;

  float _201 = _194 + _198;
  float _202 = _195 + _199;
  float _203 = _196 + _200;

looks reinhard-like

[crimson ocean]

UI is dim anyway

[shrewd lotus]

float scale = BrightPassValues.z / (ClampedLuminance + 0.001);
float3 color = float3(_167, _168, _169);
// _174_175_176
float3 color_scaled = (color * scale);
// _179_180_181
float3 color_scaled_over_white = color_scaled / White;
// _182_183_184
float3 color_scaled_over_white_plus_1 = color_scaled_over_white + 1.f;
// float3 color_final = (color_scaled_over_white_plus_1 * color_scaled) / (color_scaled + 1.f);
float3 color_final = (((color_scaled / White) + 1.f) * color_scaled) / (color_scaled + 1.f);

(x * (x / W + 1)) / (x + 1) i think?

[mossy hare]

Rockstar in shambles

[echo hazel]

@wintry zinc @crimson ocean if you are interested in emulating the xbox360 gamma:

• gamma->linear: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/1wv8ft7pl3
• linear->gamma: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/ocuykzr4tq
  linear->gamma also has function to how it translates to displaying on a gamma 2.2 display

the green line should be a straight line from 0,0 to 1,1 if anyone is wondering how it should look 😄

comparison against that straight line

[crimson ocean]

I was assuming they already did this?

[echo hazel]

no I don't think so

the shader called "PS_Apply360Gamma" is just a simple gamma adjust

[crimson ocean]

well, it could be the case where rockstar had a pipeline to adjust textures so that they'd pre-acknowledge the xbox 360 gamma and end up linearizing correctly?

I know other games did that to look the same between PS3 and XBOX

or maybe they changed the look enough that it's not needed anymore

maybe they know the target look was always the PC version

that was never released

[echo hazel]

PS4/PS5 is straight gamma 2.2 it seems
PS3 too?
XBOX360 is not what PC looks like too

[crimson ocean]

consoles don't inherently have gamma

they just take an 8bit source from the game's rendering and send it to the TV

I am pretty sure that the only games that would have looked different on xbox 360 are the ones that actually kept R8G8B8A8UNORM_SRGB swapchains

which would have linearized or gammified differently on xbox

but for normal R8G8B8A8UNORM swapchains, games would have looked identical between xbox360 and PS3

most do, in fact, I think.

[wintry zinc]

i recall a lot of xbox games having different gamma in comparison videos, so that would mean a ton of games had those srgb swapchains

which would also mean a ton of games are rendering in linear, which I thought was rare in that era

or I'm just overestimating how many games did that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQjYGRhJF-A

looks like it has different gamma

but it doesn't use srgb swapchain on pc

[crimson ocean]

maybe they wreen't available on DX9

the different AFAIK would have come from the GPU linearizing color (albedo) textures

given they'd be SRGB format but linearize differently during rendering on xbox

but the actual tonemapping would have been the same

the other theory is that microsoft pushed devs to use a different gamma formula for xbox on output, and devs actually followed, and it didn't look right maybe?

[wintry zinc]

i'm pretty sure I saw 2.2 somewhere in max payne's code on pc

[echo hazel]

sRGB RTs do exist in dx9

The "sRGB" the xbox360 uses is used on render targets

XBOX360 is a dx9+dx10 mix. Maybe you could bind sRGB textures as UNORM

[shrewd lotus]

what if the creative intent was hampered by the technology at the time, and not a pure reproduction of what they wanted? it's probably not worth trying to make a game look exactly like it did 10 years ago since those optimizations have noisy tradeoffs

[echo hazel]

Before everything was just in gamma. sRGB in hardware which is a LUT brought the ability to do rendering in linear. Most of those games did rendering in HDR and then tone map and then do further post processing in SDR

[echo hazel]

Apparently the xbox360 was the primary platform

The xbox360 gamma is achieved through bit shifts since a LUT is more expensive

[wintry zinc]

when you say 360 is primary platform

is that just cause it ran like shit and looked worse on ps3

[echo hazel]

I heard someone say that

I think rockstar is a PS first company because of legacy

From that Xenia post xbox360 had a 10bit float format. It's 7e3

Would explain the "lowly" HDR the game has

[echo hazel]

Crytec and Valve both worked around it and the Xenia post also mentions devs either using the hw gamma or doing it in software

[echo hazel]

And so do sRGB swapchains

The problem with the PC port imho is that it does not look like PS3/4/5 and xbox360

[crimson ocean]

Maybe they fixed something

[native stag]

So what's the way to get good HDR in this

[native stag]

@crimson ocean is the in-game HDR option toggled off or on however

[wintry zinc]

On

Set the game brightness slider to lowest

That’s 100 nits

The input hdr white level is supposed to match that

[native stag]

Oof that makes everything in the menu incredibly dull at least compared to native untouched

[wintry zinc]

The ui slider is also controlled by game brightness

It’s really dumb

So you just have to increase ui brightness slider

Also the output white point can be controlled by pumboautohdr

You can also increase brightness slider in game and set input white level in pumboautohdr to the corresponding value

Just read the tooltips

[wheat flower]

can look quite nice with mods
Reality Redemption + E3FX Next Gen Reshade for Red Dead Redemption and Reality Redemption

[vocal vector]

looks good

except for the upscaling or whatever gpu artifacts on Marston's clothing

[wheat flower]

Need to get liliums HDR CAS in there

[wheat flower]

could be from reality redemption or DLAA i guess as it seems to be there without the reshade effects

[mighty palm]

where you do download E3FX?

[wheat flower]

Nexus

[sturdy marsh]

So at the very top yeah. The original comment.
That should be the place for updated summary of how the hdr is any issues fix etc.
Coz there’s no pins, no way to search. So everyone can easily know state of hdr on latest patch

[native stag]

There is a pin for the settings

[stone isle]

Does anyone have an idea why reshade can't load the REST addon for me? In other games without problems.

[native stag]

Looks good with Pumbo Wumbo's settings. The sunlight/bloom is a little RADIATED but that's a look games of this generation often had anyway lol

[sturdy marsh]

There’s no way to check pin in here?

[mossy hare]

If on desktop, click the pin icon near the discord search bar
if on mobile, tap the thread name > settings > pinned messages

[native stag]

To Musa or not to Musa, that is the question

[wicked marlin]

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption/mods/397?tab=description

quite good upscale

[crimson ocean]

does it cover everything outdoors?

[wicked marlin]

seems like it does

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption/mods/398?tab=posts

there is also this one

don't know which one is better

but the first includes more textures

there is also a few mods that upscale props

[sturdy marsh]

A there a compiled mod installer of everything?

[vocal vector]

oh lmao my buddy made this

I didnt realize he actually uploaded it to nexus yet

[lilac basalt]

Still such a great game

[vocal vector]

once a great game always a great game

[wicked marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-meme-astronaut-gif-23926290