▫️Silent Hill 2 Remake

[crystal flame]

unrelated

[neat kestrel]

i thought you said not to change min luminance

from whatever it was before

[crystal flame]

yeah because it works in a weird way

it was more like "i wouldnt touch it as idk what it does"

[neat kestrel]

oh ok

[crystal flame]

if you mean, did they stop using shadow color offset, then no

[gray parrot]

Gotcha so probably not worth the update

[crystal flame]

wdym? it's a patch, it improves performance, it adds dlss fg, it fixes bugs

ofc it's worth the update

[gray parrot]

I never use Frame Gen. too much latency and visually worse

trying to see if its worth it, i dont have many issues to being with - dont fix whats not broken type deal

[neat kestrel]

I'll have to do another compare tonight, however changing peak brightness changes contrast on the entire image a bit so really people are gonna have to use their own settings that match their own peak. I don't think there is a "recommendation" for this one

I'll probably just stick with the HDR settings I was using

[warm surge]

PSA, frame gen is busted with the 3.7.0 dll included, just like Jedi Survivor. Ghosting city. Works well enough with 1.0.7 though.

[rigid jackal]

You're using HDR, right

[warm surge]

Yeah

[rigid jackal]

To fix this issue without needing to switch to dlss-g 1.0.7 you can put r.Streamline.TagUIColorAlpha=0 in your Engine.ini

Or use Ersh's SH2 black floor fix mod, which comes with this fix as well

[warm surge]

Interesting! Is it a common UE issue then?

[rigid jackal]

Yea it's a bug for newer versions of DLSS frame gen and UE5

Only affects HDR, too

[neat kestrel]

How is FG working if combined with ersh's fix or that ini line

[hazy thorn]

I always had silhouete ghosting against heavy fog anyway lol

don't think that's completely fixable

[neat kestrel]

Yea, previous default mid luminance was way too low

not sure what they did with the min luminance. I'll have to mess with it. I still dont' really understand what it's doing

[gray parrot]

from what i understand, its still like that in prison

[neat kestrel]

I'm curious if SDR is dark as hell too

[gray parrot]

you play in SDR? otherwise dont go chasing options you wont use lol

there's already way too much going on

[neat kestrel]

No, I play in HDR but my goal was to match SDR 140 nits pretty closely

[gray parrot]

Ah I see

[neat kestrel]

which I think I did with my settings, but it's dependent on peak

peak changes the whole picture

ha

like this is what worked for me

[gray parrot]

its not consistence throughout the whole game

[neat kestrel]

hits over 600 nits still sometimes

but visually looked real close to sdr 140

[gray parrot]

yeah its doesnt stick to it, broken

[neat kestrel]

i'm just gonna stick with these settings. it worked whatever

[gray parrot]

no wrong answers

[neat kestrel]

yea

i'm too bored of testing it

it's a pain in the ass

[gray parrot]

same

I should reitirate, the game looked fantastic last few hours

[neat kestrel]

if i want to test with SK (to get sdr inside hdr with the graph), I have to take ersh's swapchain fix file out (otherwise crash), but then the window gets all fucked up on alt tab so I have to like set it to a small res window and move it out the way to look at the pictures

yea i'm done ha

most annoying game to test ever

[gray parrot]

very time consuming

[neat kestrel]

yea

[gray parrot]

cuz there's no baseline

and we are perfectionists 😂

[neat kestrel]

ha yea

[gray parrot]

I stepped away from testing and enjoyed some game finally, looks like you did too

[neat kestrel]

yea 🙂

[zealous pebble]

Goddamnit I should have just waited two weeks.

Can anyone confirm if the traversal stutter is just as bad though? And the animation hitching?

[gray parrot]

Waited for what...

[neat kestrel]

I'm seeing one report (have not confirmed yet) that the HDR changed, even on the old settings

that it looks different

can anyone else confirm or deny this?

[zealous pebble]

This patch obviously?

[neat kestrel]

I think the HDR changed

[gray parrot]

I mean thats the case if every new release. some get fixed, some dont. I don't have much issues with original game

[neat kestrel]

it doesn't look the same as before with my old settings

[gray parrot]

maybe they fixed the black floor?

did you remove the ersh mod before trying?

[neat kestrel]

no

[gray parrot]

test vanilla

[neat kestrel]

but you can toggle ersh's mod off in game

i tested before with ersh's mod though

[gray parrot]

ya thats what I mean, just toggle it off

[neat kestrel]

it still is looking different

i think something changed

[gray parrot]

check with reshade

[neat kestrel]

i can't. i'd have to find the exact spot from before

[gray parrot]

what kinda peak brightness and black floor you're seeing

just check a generally dark place or fire up an old save from apt.

[neat kestrel]

oh wait yea

did they fix it?

wut

testing more

no nvm

i dont think they fixed

but idk what's going on anymore lol

i feel like something is off

[gray parrot]

hmm... I've only played at default settings plus ersh mod so I will just go back to apts. and check the completely dark places at default

should be easy to spot, i spent a lot of time there not knowing what to do lol

A better question would be @neat kestrel does the game look better or worse with ersh mod applied at old settings of yours? Just measure that with reshade

[zealous pebble]

I just wasn't expecting Bloober of all companies to add FG and somewhat address stuttering within a week and a half is all. I thought it'd take months for them to do anything substantial

[neat kestrel]

ersh's mod still seem to be doing what it's supposed to

[tough scarab]

It’s the same

Forget about them fixing it

[neat kestrel]

but even the main menu screen looks darker than it did before

i spent a lot of time staring at it yesterday

something looks darker

using the same settings

[gray parrot]

that has its own LUT/settings, dont go off of main menu

check actual game

[neat kestrel]

Yea but the main menu should still look the asme

same

[tough scarab]

Ersh already confirmed they changed HDR settings, not how it works, his fix still needed

[gray parrot]

for all we know, they just changed main menu lol not a good test

[neat kestrel]

mmmm maybe not actually

might be placebo i'm sorry

lol

[gray parrot]

lol

[neat kestrel]

it's realy hard to tell unless i do the exact same spot/comparison

i dont even have that save anymore it was overriden

if ersh says it's the same then i trust it ha

[gray parrot]

im not doubting ersh mod is still intact and needed

[neat kestrel]

i mean i trust him that HDR didn't change

[gray parrot]

gotcha, just the default settings

[neat kestrel]

yea i guess

[gray parrot]

that makes it easy, I will take pic of my current settings and reapply and be done

[neat kestrel]

yea jsut waiting for sammi to update nexus

with the new Ultra+

[gray parrot]

just grab from thread

[neat kestrel]

what about the rest of the files

the addons and stuff

the 2.1.2 is just the pak

[gray parrot]

all that is still needed, ini file remains the same

only the pak changed

[neat kestrel]

yea i'm asking which version i shoudl grab for the other files

2.1.0 off nexus?

[warm surge]

Is Ersh's fix suppsed to fix the frame gen UI ghosting issues as well? That's what they're saying on Reeeestera but menus are still janky for me. Everything else looks good though, the rest of the ghosting is resolved.

[pallid lava]

Old defaults / New defaults

[zealous pebble]

I saw videos that show less stuttering than vanilla code. Seems like there's less but the major hitches are still present and yeah I'm not expecting a miracle

[pallid lava]

Old defaults / New defaults

[gray parrot]

wtf lol

[pallid lava]

Know what?
I'm gonna go ahead and say it
I liked the old ones more

[gray parrot]

I dont remember the OLD default being this dark in the beggining? New Default certainly looks like what I remember

[pallid lava]

#1212434739500154921 message

[gray parrot]

@summer gyro we are in HDR hell over here

[summer gyro]

nice

[gray parrot]

Hmm I think its cuz of the hero lighting mod that james looks so dark there so maybe it was that dark, not sure

[pallid lava]

I'm not using any mods

[summer gyro]

i like the new defaults

[neat kestrel]

It seems brighter than sdr just from a glance

[summer gyro]

well its bright but they never had a paper white slider anyway

[gray parrot]

oh interesting,

[summer gyro]

but the general balance of the image I mean

like midtone brightness being higher I like

its just too bright

so I'd just scale it down afterwards with reshade

and add ersh black floor fix

[pallid lava]

Great for all the people that like to play their atmospheric horror games in the broad daylight
I guess

[gray parrot]

im guessing still mixed with ersh mod, new defaults looks good + peak brightness set correct or 500 nits

[summer gyro]

ya re2 was 300 paper white at default

really bizarre choice in both cases

at least re2 had a paper white slider

[gray parrot]

we are SOL here

[summer gyro]

i think its fine

on pc

[neat kestrel]

Idk, new defaults look way brighter than 140 nits sdr

[summer gyro]

since we have reshade

[neat kestrel]

I'll have to test later

[summer gyro]

scale up sdr to like 300 and itll prob be similar i imagine

[neat kestrel]

Yea

Probably

[summer gyro]

maybe also lower brightness to 1 or something

maybe 1.2 was what they had brightness set to in sdr idk

i think thats exposure

[neat kestrel]

Well how about this....can we confirm that the hdr itself did not change, just the default settings?

That's the most important thing at the moment ha

[pallid lava]

@summer gyro what was the mid SDR used? 46?

[summer gyro]

i though sammi said 46

she either said it was 46 and 50 is what unreal defaults to or its the other way around

and it was 50 and 46 is what unreal defaults to

dont remember

[neat kestrel]

Well hopefully nothing changed with the actual HDR so I can keep using the settings I came up with earlier. I was enjoying those

it was as close to 140 sdr as i could get

[hazy thorn]

bruh why tf did they change this, so annoying now. I did notice it looked brighter at defaults + ersh fix. I'm not sure if I think it looks worse though. With proper blacks still it looks "good"

they basically just cranked the mid lum right

[pallid lava]

New defaults with brightness 0.8 look all right I guess
SDR / HDR new defaults Brightness 0.8

[neat kestrel]

Here's what I was using if you're interested

with ersh's fix

[pallid lava]

I'm looking at the vanilla so far

[pallid lava]

HDR new defaults Brightness 0.8

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-okay-with-this-rick-rick-and-morty-i'm-fine-with-this-i'm-alright-with-this-gif-13369490372890804949

[neat kestrel]

yo wut

i swear the game is darker now

with my old settings

what is going on

oh it's ultra+

new version really changes things

I think it made the vignette way stronger or something

[pallid lava]

you mean the patch or the mod?

[neat kestrel]

ultra+ mod

way stronger vignette

unless i'm mistaking it for something else

[pallid lava]

SDR 120 nits G2.2 / HDR custom

Settings

[tough scarab]

do I have to change settings after the patch

[neat kestrel]

hmm gotta figure out why ultra+ is making things so much darker

[hazy thorn]

[pallid lava]

If you're not obsessed like me and don't care about the perfect partiy with SDR reference, you can just adjust max luminance and brightness sliders to your liking and ignore everything else

[neat kestrel]

I swear this game changes the hdr settings sometimes on a reboot

throws me off

[hybrid anvil]

so tldr: are the new defaults good?

[neat kestrel]

Depends who you ask I guess. I think they're way too bright

This has been by far the most annoying game i've ever played in terms of figuring out settings

[pallid lava]

Too bright out of the box IMO, but you can fix that pretty easily with the brightness slider

Otherwise they are all right

[neat kestrel]

does steam cloud saves not work in this game?

i backed up my saves so nbd but noticed that upon a reinstall it didn't have my saves

yea doesn't seem to save them to the cloud

just an fyi, back up your saves

[hybrid anvil]

because it has too many

I don't like that.

[gray parrot]

Stutter should never be on the list of issues

that ruins almost all of the experience...

[neat kestrel]

Yea. I'm just gonna stick with my previous settings above. I was getting tripped up because ultra+ changes the image a bit now and i swear the game randomly turns my hdr settings back to default. It kept messing up my comparisons ha

So many roadblocks

[hybrid anvil]

is the stutter situation improveD?

[neat kestrel]

I haven't gotten a chance to play it proper yet

I am seeing reports though that framegen seems to be forced on even if you turn it off? Will need to verify that one....EDIT: apparently Ultra+ was causing it

[pallid lava]

still not as bad as Doom Eternal

[wide gyro]

So is it a problem if I just continue to use my pre patch settings? As far as I've read, it should work and only the defaults have been changed?

[pallid lava]

correct

[gray parrot]

Whhaaaa? Ultra+ is forcing FG to be on at all times on the new patch?

[neat kestrel]

I'm trying to follow the channel (which is hard since it's all over the place) but looks like it's that optional chroma file she has

[gray parrot]

damn,

what a cluster

[neat kestrel]

that's supposed to disable that razer RGB dll or some shit

so just remove that i guess

[gray parrot]

oh k, good to know... never just simple update is it

[neat kestrel]

Also apparently that 30 fps cutscene mod is broken witht he new mod

and causes massive stuttering

but i'd need to confirm

so maybe that needs an update after the patch

I think I may like just stop playing this game for a few weeks

let the dust settle lol

[rigid jackal]

they massively improved the game wtf, I have way less stutters in apartments

[hybrid anvil]

i guess it's ready to play then

HDR -> Fixed (it was never terrible, but now :))
DLSS FG -> Added
Stutters -> ~Fixed

once again: never play games at launch.
We waited 20 years for a remake, you wait 2 more weeks a get a noticeably better experienced, for a lower price too.

[neat kestrel]

I'm seeing a lot of people screaming about FG issues

so i'm staying away from that ha

[neat kestrel]

I just tested it

not getting that issue

🤷

seems to be an issue with people and FSR FG

[gray parrot]

Which issue...

[neat kestrel]

The one where FG was forced on with that Chroma optional pak file

Seems to not be an issue with nvidia FG.

Probably something with fsr

[gray parrot]

Ah ok must be messing with FG mod and not dlss mod the devs added

[neat kestrel]

Yea probably

[wet kelp]

hellaoouuuiii 😊

just bisecting the patch, and noticed they disabled HDR swap chain

i'm not sure if it will have any effect in practice

[wet kelp]

they did a really good job. didn't get everything, but got a lot of stuff i can't do

super excited 😊

[wet kelp]

@hybrid anvil

[hybrid anvil]

All the HDR config in Unreal are kinda nonsense and do nothing

[wet kelp]

untrue, they only do things in specific colour spaces

[hybrid anvil]

That's just the default value.

The game changes it at runtime.

So this should make no difference

[wet kelp]

these are the runtime settings

[hybrid anvil]

HDR still works, so I wouldn't worry

[wet kelp]

all good, only letting you know in case you're bisecting

[crystal flame]

i don't like the new default -9 min luminance

i think it's too dark

they might've been trying to counteract the shadow color offset

[neat kestrel]

i left it at the old default -4

[crystal flame]

yeah im setting it back there

mid 50 seems ok with exposure at 1 or 1.2 i guess?

not comparing with sdr, just saying what feels ok

might be too much in bright scenes tho

[neat kestrel]

I stuck with mid luminance at 26 just because I got used to it

[crystal flame]

yea whatever works for you

[neat kestrel]

The game wants to be really dark on purpose I think, and I kinda like the effect

[crystal flame]

all i can say is that -9 min seems bad

[neat kestrel]

ha yea definitely

The game also has some areas that have a lot of bt2020 colors

I was seeing like 22% bt2020

[crystal flame]

unreal does a strong gamut expansion

[summer gyro]

Is that mostly noise or something

[crystal flame]

mostly dark colors with the black floor fix i guess

that or gamut expansion on bright

[neat kestrel]

Oh that makes sense

[hybrid anvil]

yeah it makes little sense...

raise but crush

bad

probably done by two different people

[crystal flame]

framegen feels good

[neat kestrel]

Oh really? I haven't tried it yet

I think I may now

[crystal flame]

i mean, like any framegen

it's usually good

[neat kestrel]

haha

yea, but sometimes framepacing gets a bit weird

or things ghost

[crystal flame]

sure it's imperfect but feels better than 2x less fps in this case

[neat kestrel]

yea for sur

sure

[zealous pebble]

can anyone confirm... if you do that tick rate fix thing, and then use frame gen, will it be essentially "fixed" and also run at 60fps? or will it still be locked to 30?

because i can live with that. not ideal but... i'd consider it "good enough"

also do i have to use DLSS-G mod to get FSR frame gen to use DLSS upscaling? Frame Gen is ghosted in the menu if I pick DLSS on my 3080 GPU

[zealous pebble]

hmm cant seem to get the DLSSG mod to work

tried the DLSS tweaks version and the regular one

Need the universal DLLs instead. Weird

Also run the registry disable. Which is I did but yeah you need universal DLLs

Fsr frame Gen with fsr upscaling is MUCH more stuttery than fsr FG with DLSS upscaling for some reason

[zealous pebble]

alright so i tried this myself

it actually runs at 60 and runs physics at the correct speed!

however

it turns the game to this weird red/pink hue

and the stutters are still awful when approaching Neely's bar, so my cpu is probably just not good enough to overcome that. this is with RT on though

[summer gyro]

The absolute bottom limit I’ve seen recommended for framegen is like 40fps

But I guess input lag isn’t as important for a slow game like silent hill

[zealous pebble]

yeah it wouldn't play great

but if it looked perfectly smooth i could deal. combat isnt that difficult

anyway its interesting that it actually does run in the correct pacing with frame gen on at 60fps. weird that it breaks the colour

[crystal flame]

it turns the game to this weird red/pink hue

[zealous pebble]

ahh thank you for making me aware!

[crystal flame]

i think if you put in the debug version of the framegen dll you'll see a message

[zealous pebble]

funny thing is when it had traversal stutter and dropped below 60, the hue was gone... i wonder if capping to 59 would work

[crystal flame]

nvngx_dlssg.dll from here https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/Streamline/tree/main/bin/x64/development

[hybrid anvil]

what!?

why

what's invalid

[crystal flame]

no idea, vinny's doing some sort of hacks. doesnt happen normally

[zealous pebble]

it does not work

i wonder why dropping to 55 fps gets rid of the hue for like 3 seconds

using the FSR hack may be why this is happening plus the fixtick

anyway, the DLSSG-FSR FG mod works beautifully at least

does not feel overly stuttery either

about the same as vanilla

FSR FG + DLSS upscaling on 2000-3000 series Nvidia card should just be working without needing mods these days, but you know. Bloober

just happy we have it at all though so mods can enable it

[rigid jackal]

They were trying to use frame gen with -UseFixedTimeStep. If you use that launch argument the game only runs at at a fixed 30fps, without any animation stutters. Framerates above or below the target slow down or speed up the game. With frame gen it should turn it into a perfect 60 but there's this red/pink overlay bug..

Does anyone here know of a way to change the tick rate of -UseFixedTimeStep?

[tough scarab]

can someone tell me did the patch mess up HDR settings, as in if you were happy with them beforehand, you have to readjust now or what?

[wet kelp]

they reduced diffuse indirect lighting quite a bit too so the game will be darker in some areas. it's easy to revert

[hazy thorn]

That shouldn’t be needed now tho

[hazy thorn]

https://youtu.be/pCjquYE3KCQ?si=x_VSdrfRDk5wmLk_&t=325

[wide gyro]

It released with 1.03. The patch yesterday was 1.04.

[tough scarab]

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/10/in-europe-78percent-of-silent-hill-2-copies-were-purchased-on-ps5

[pallid lava]

The video title is correct though

[hazy thorn]

the point was to show that the frosted windows are absolutely fine on the unnatainable 1.0

[neat kestrel]

I wonder if Ultra+ potentially fixes that door

[open zenith]

Who cares honestly. More people being able to play the game is always a good thing.

[tough scarab]

huh?

[neat kestrel]

@crystal flameJust to confirm, have you noticed any noticeable ghosting with FG? I was gonna try it out later

[crystal flame]

eh, the usual amount of artifacting

the settings menu also has artifacting but who cares really

[neat kestrel]

yea idc about the settings menu that much

using latest fg dll?

[crystal flame]

um i didnt replace it

so whatever they shipped with

[neat kestrel]

alrighty

thx

[zealous pebble]

There's ghosting on the sides

But when I'm actually just playing and focused on the middle of the screen I don't notice it so I'll still use it. That being said I'm playing on a 65 inch tv from 6 feet out so the sides are only in my peripheral vision

[gray parrot]

New Nvidia driver update available today, includes optimization for SH2

[open zenith]

Optimal settings != driver optimizations.

From the changelog it contains no optimizations for the game itself on driver-level sadly

[gray parrot]

right

[tough scarab]

That's for GFE for brain dead people

[gray parrot]

It just includes the game to the library for GPU optimization

[tough scarab]

who can't understand settings menus

[gray parrot]

Still its a new driver update

[crystal flame]

the "optimal" settings are often questionable too

[tough scarab]

you posted this here based on the premise that it had a driver profile for the game, and it doesn't

[gray parrot]

welp the new update introduced stutter that wasnt there before so cant blame me for trying

[tough scarab]

also 99.9% of the time, driver "optimizations" don't do anything for a game, save for maybe occasional game breaking issues

other people are claiming the new update reduced stutter

[crystal flame]

ffxvi demo was straight up completely broken without updated drivers for me 😄 polygons were stretching

[tough scarab]

yeah that's what I mean, but those cases are rare

drivers almost never increase performance

[crystal flame]

shader compilation maybe?

[gray parrot]

IDK, maybe...

[tough scarab]

that's probably it

your whole shader cache got wiped

not all PSOs are covered during the first boot, some still happen while playing

[gray parrot]

👍 so just best to play some more and hope it gets better

[zealous pebble]

Most videos I've seen show less constant stutters, it's more traversal stutter that's still present. But it appears to be improved overall

Can anyone tell if animation hitching is still present? I'm not as sensitive to it

[neat kestrel]

Has anyone tried SH2 with SK recently? Curious if it still causes performance issues. I unfortunately probably will not be able to test much until like Monday or next week.

[gray parrot]

all it truly adds is screenshot ability, I tried it last night and game stuttered with and without it

[neat kestrel]

I'm interested in it more for the framerate limiter and/or latent sync

idc about screenshots, I can do that with xbox game bar

[gray parrot]

you can limit frames in Nvidia CP or RTSS or in game if needed

not sure what Latency sync does

[neat kestrel]

Latent sync is like scanline sync from RTSS

I don't use VRR remember

[neat kestrel]

do you have MORE stutters with SK?

or not really

i don't remember who said it was causing performance issues

[crystal flame]

i did. a lot more

might've been SK's limiter, or it trying to add nvidia reflex, or whatever

but it was adding severe framerate instability

on top of the game's already awful one

[neat kestrel]

alright, I guess don't fix what ain't broke, right? I'll just stick to using nvidia as a cap

[crystal flame]

#1291021198628618353 message

[gray parrot]

so you are not getting stutter after game update and latest U+?

[crystal flame]

oh it's still stuttering, but it's better

[gray parrot]

Oh I know, for me its worse lol but curious if BR4P is running better somehow... he might be using beta U+

[neat kestrel]

Not really any more than I had before lol

there are still stutters but it seems fine enough to enjoy the game

i'm on v 2.2.0 of U+

[neat kestrel]

The one good thing about not using VRR is I don't have flicker ha

but yea the FPS was going insane with SK in your video

[gray parrot]

I surprisingly dont have VRR flicker in game anymore since I capped it to 75 FPS, so I just keep it on as always

[neat kestrel]

Maybe a good rule of thumb is to assume that SK will cause issues if the game is already held together by toothpicks and bubble gum

i.e. this game and still wakes the deep

[gray parrot]

Yup best to avoid it in heavy games but damn I need it in Cyberpunk for pics lol

[neat kestrel]

For HDR PNGs?

because you can just use xbox game bar for jxr

[gray parrot]

For SDR PNGs converted from HDR image

game bar does not tonemap as good as SK, lots of crushed blacks

[neat kestrel]

You can take the screenshot with xbox game bar, open the JXR in SKIV, then save as SDR. I think that should do a better job?

but yea i hear ya

Straight from SK screenshot is the best

[gray parrot]

or just press a button and its ready

[neat kestrel]

SKIV doens't always output in SDR correctly

actually i wanna ask Kal about that

[gray parrot]

not that its ever happened to me

results are always excellent and almost identical to what im seeing on the screen, minus some of the HDR effects of course

[neat kestrel]

open this in skiv and view as sdr

it'll be black and white

ha

compared to the HDR view which has color

not sure why

[neat kestrel]

Fun fact: the toggles in Ultra+ do not work if you use it with SK

[gray parrot]

shows in color on my tv

[summer gyro]

if you click view in sdr it doesn't

ctrl + d to open the menu

[gray parrot]

ah missed that detail, i dont have skiv

[neat kestrel]

Yea skiv specifically

[gray parrot]

What movie player are you using thats compatible with SK?

And show me a game screenshot that turned out to be black and white with SK

[neat kestrel]

I'm not using a movie player with SK. I just have that jxr image

[gray parrot]

And how was the jxr taken?

[neat kestrel]

Idk lol

Probably just a screenshot of the Blu-ray

[gray parrot]

So not a SK issue... it takes hdr to sdr pics just fine. Have not seen a game pic turning bnw like that ever

[neat kestrel]

I didn't say it was a SK issue. I was just trying to figure out why SKIV showed it like that

[gray parrot]

Most likely the source of that pic is issue, not skiv

[neat kestrel]

Maybe. But I've seen similar with silent hill 2 screenshots that i took. It happens with super low luminance shots

Might be something on my end idk

[gray parrot]

Possible. Like i said, ive never had SK ruin pics like that ever and ive taken 1000s

[neat kestrel]

Ok lol.

Again, I was never accusing it of being bugged. I was trying to figure out what was going on

And also I'm not talking about SK. I'm talking about skiv

[gray parrot]

Oh, I thought the whole discussion was SK/Skiv takes bad pics compared to gamebar

[neat kestrel]

No i never said that

[gray parrot]

They are one and the same thing

Just different operations

[neat kestrel]

I think another user on the SK skiv channel had the same results

[gray parrot]

Games or movies or both?

[neat kestrel]

Just that screenshot

It's the easiest teat

Test*

[gray parrot]

Lol ok probably a much ado about nothing 😅

[neat kestrel]

Just interesting

[gray parrot]

And who knows if the hdr pic of that bluray was tonemapped correctly to begin with or not

Lots of possibilities cuz that movie is also available on stream and then uhd in proper hdr10 as well

[neat kestrel]

I don't think the source image is the problem

Because it's happened with other low luninance images

[gray parrot]

Probably better discussed in the SK channel

[neat kestrel]

I'm doing that lol

But yea

Agreed

[quartz epoch]

heads up for anyone who was up to the labyrinth before the patch
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2124490/view/4538031421720444974?l=english

[open zenith]

Nice to see some dev-transparancy

[radiant lodge]

Can I use this mod while also using SK?

If I install ReShade as an addon normally, and put the mod next to exe, it works fine. But when I use SK to launch the game, it just crashes.

Mod works fine solo, so does SK. Just not together.

Am I missing some sort of config that I need to apply to make 'em both work? I know RenoDX works with SK, so technically this should, too? Especialy when I install ReShade as a central installation.

[summer gyro]

renodx sometimes works with sk but not always

some people were saying sk is causing stuttering in this game though

[radiant lodge]

SK wasn't even working with this game for me.

Until I tried delayed injection today, and now it is.

I normally use ReShade as an SK addon to use Lilium's shaders in any game I want without having to manually do it again and again.

And that makes it easy.

But with Ersh's mod, idk if I can use the ReShade within SK to load it.

[neat kestrel]

SK crashes with ershs swapchain fix mod, if you're using that

[crystal flame]

no idea. SK was causing severe stuttering in this game for me

[radiant lodge]

I had that first, realized that might be causing an issue, removed it, still doesn't work, sadly.

[radiant lodge]

Sad times.

I am getting really wonky perf with FG on, so I wanted to inject SK and apply some of that good good frame cap, and continue to use your mod as well, as I just installed it yesterday.

Sadly, no bueno for me.

Thus I was wondering if RenoDX/your mod can be used with SK at the same time, but alas ..

All good, though.

[gray parrot]

You are much better off using the Nvidia control panel frame cap for this game anyways

[radiant lodge]

idk about that, SK is far superior.

Oh, for 'this' game, sure.

If SK can't work, yes.

NVCP + Ersh's mod and hopefully FG behaves nicely.

[gray parrot]

yeah im in the same boat as you... many times SK and Reshade dont work together

[radiant lodge]

I don't use ReShade at all outside of Lilium's shaders for HDR analysis. And for that, I have it centrally installed via SK.

[gray parrot]

and its a me problem too, it works great for others on their machines for the same games

[radiant lodge]

So, ReShade is available in every game I play with SK, and one shortcut away from being enabled and seeing the shaders applied.

But with this mod, as it's not ASI/DLL, I can't load it manually via SKCP either.

And not sure what's up.

I'll get with Marat and see if he got some cursed shit done in past to do this.

[gray parrot]

yeah its an Add-on

[radiant lodge]

Yeah

[gray parrot]

are you using RTSS by chance or MSI afterburner?

[radiant lodge]

Nope

Just SK being a bit weird with this game until I use injection delay, then it's fine.

But then I can't use Ersh's mod, so. RIP RIP.

[gray parrot]

again though, you dont really need SK if you just wanted to cap frame rates for this game

SK has been noted to provide worse performance in this game anyways so better to not take that chance

[gray parrot]

@radiant lodge do you have exact instructions on how to use the reshade widget/plugin inside SK? And im assuming you can upload all types of shaders and textures to it and not just the Lilium HDR analysis option.

[radiant lodge]

https://wiki.special-k.info/en/SpecialK/ReShade

Follow this to have a setup like I explained above.

[gray parrot]

thank you1

[radiant lodge]

It's more than just capping frames, tbh. Kal has a lot of nice features built-in there for DLSS-G pacing and such.

Either way, I'll have to pick my poison, better blacks on my OLED or better performance, cause the perf was wonky with FG enabled the other day.

But I did realize my NVCP didn't have the 116 limit enabled, so I did that today.

Will try again, if that works, sure. If not, RIP.

No SK also means no HDR SS.

[gray parrot]

I feel ya on that one lol

[radiant lodge]

Still have SKIV to at least throw JXR in and get HDR PNGs out, so there's that.

[gray parrot]

but with this guide, I am guessing both will work

you tried and it still didnt work?

[radiant lodge]

It didn't work, cause I can't figure out how to do the following: If you want to use Addons such as RenoDX, you can try Early load order and disable Compatiblity Mode in SK’s control panel.

Like how do I even add it as an add-on? SKCP only shows ASI/DLL as addon that can be added.

[gray parrot]

Ahh, did you disable the compatibility mode at least?

[radiant lodge]

I'll ask Kal later actually, why is SKCP not showing any other extension support if page says that.

It was already disabled.

[gray parrot]

gotcha

[radiant lodge]

Didn't have any tick on it.

Unless you have to click on it to disable it

[gray parrot]

You can just right click and hit Reset and be sure its not using compatibility mode

I will also need to find out the Early Load Order stuff though

[quartz epoch]

Haven't used SK with Reno in SH2, but I'm using them together fine on Metaphor with a local Reshade/Reno install in the Metaphor directory and then booting the game via SKIF as per usual

[gray parrot]

im guessing Reno just takes the extra step of installing the add-on file to the SK folder? @quartz epoch

[quartz epoch]

I don't know what you're asking, sorry. Reno is a Reshade add-on, it needs to be loaded via Reshade. But yeah, local Reshade/global SK combo works for me on Metaphor, though I don't know about SH2, but it's worth a shot

[gray parrot]

Ah nevermind, looks like Reshade+SK just works normally for that game. SH2 is special case though.

[radiant lodge]

local Reshade/Reno

How would I go about doing that if I wanna install Ersh's mod local?

[gray parrot]

He's saying, the normal reshade works with SK in that game

[radiant lodge]

If your SK doesn't work, try delaying injection.

I did it by 25secs.

[radiant lodge]

Ah, by local install, he means just using the Reshade Addon installer?

[gray parrot]

SK on its own works just fine on SH2

[radiant lodge]

Basically this?

Kk, for me it doesn't, SK game crashes, sadly.

[gray parrot]

yeah the usual

basically the delay is needed on your machine then, no harm done

[quartz epoch]

yeah, just tried this to double check and no luck. RIP

[gray parrot]

most games dont work with both is what ive seen, when it does work, its great but rare

[neat kestrel]

Use reshade as a SK plugin. Works 99.99% of the time

But that doesn't work with reahade addons i don't think

[gray parrot]

Thats what we are trying to experiment with

[gray parrot]

Looks like it works with add-ons too but we are not clear on instructions

[zealous pebble]

What does kal do for DLSSG frame pacing? And is it applicable to when you use FSR FG with DLSS upscaling?

[rigid jackal]

He uses Nvidias Reflex framerate limiter

You can do the same now with the newest RTSS version I think

or the framerate limiter in nvidias control panel

[neat kestrel]

I've never once gotten it to work with addons

[gray parrot]

How/where did you update the Early Load order exactly?

[neat kestrel]

I've tried everything haha. If you get it to work lemme know 🙂

Maybe i missed something

[gray parrot]

I dont even understand the setup steps lol so you are asking the rrrrong guy

[neat kestrel]

You drop the reshade dlls in the plugins reshade folder of sk. Textures and shaders go in the global folder of sk

I'm not home or I'd get you screenshots

[gray parrot]

Textures and Shaders can be combined from diff. games?

[neat kestrel]

I meant the reshade textures and shaders folder

[gray parrot]

Gotcha

im gonna get some info. from the horse's mouth

Info is correct: If you want to use Addons such as RenoDX, you can try Early load order and disable Compatiblity Mode in SK’s control panel.

Here

[neat kestrel]

Oh ok i guess I'll try that next time

[gray parrot]

me too

Also there's the new 2.2.1 Ultra+ pak to try @neat kestrel

[neat kestrel]

Won't be able to try until like Monday so lemme know how it is 🙂

[gray parrot]

I will, though I might stop playing for a while. Cyanide might be an AGX LUT for the game

[neat kestrel]

What's that

[gray parrot]

every play Cyberpunk?

[neat kestrel]

Ye

Like nova lut?

[gray parrot]

has Nova LUT and all that

[neat kestrel]

Aight

Idk if I'm into those for HDR

[gray parrot]

yeah same but for SH2

his are the only ones compatible with HDR

[neat kestrel]

But nova lut was very popular

I know

[gray parrot]

i dont think it'll be anything crazy or world altering but lets see

[neat kestrel]

Yea sounds cool

[gray parrot]

i'll muck with SK+Reshade in the meantime

and yah the LUT mod wont be coming anytime soon so will just keep playing in stutterville

going up and down the stairs in the Hospital is a damn mess

[neat kestrel]

So is SK not causing worse performance anymore with this game.

I admit i never compared it

Although unless i can get addons to work with SK reshade, it's a moot point

[gray parrot]

for me its worse either way

and the FPS is all over the place from one wall to another so its difficult to gauge

[zealous pebble]

Ohh good to know thanks

[tough scarab]

I decided to mess around with CPU affinity in task manager and it was having some effects. Removing affinity from first 4 threads reduced the stutter. Then I decided to remove affinity from the 4 e-core threads and it basically eliminated all micro stutter

same place before, at the same graphics settings:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1296190168944083065/1299299882426699786/image.png?ex=671cb2cf&is=671b614f&hm=0d81410688bfede8169ca4b85210f83f344298731fbd86bf841cdfa75a794f91&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=535&height=702

[summer gyro]

I don’t even have e cores

i5-12400

My CPU is just ass

[tough scarab]

this is some random shit

but it's working

all I have now are traversal stutters

this is with no FG and capped to 60

this is crazy

I've never had a flat graph like that before, in this place before it was in the 50s and stuttering all over all the time

this is after enabling ecores

the big spikes are alt tabs

that's all I am doing

could this be a windows scheduler bug specific to my CPU or cpu family?

I am on newest 24h2

[summer gyro]

@wet kelp ^ this looks worth investigating

[tough scarab]

This is similar to how I fixed stutter in Elden Ring early this year, but there it was removing affinity from thread 0

[wet kelp]

and that's what's different

well, if these results work on others PCs excluding E cores, it's likely UE 5.1's task graph doesn't understand E cores

[open zenith]

Or there are some issues in the Windows thread schedueler...

Or both

What is the point of E-Cores anyways? Always feels like low-cost extra cores to boost the core-count on paper and to claim energy efficiency....

Plus Windows and games themselves don't seem to be able to handle it properly quite often

[neat kestrel]

I have no idea how e-cores work

[pallid lava]

Marketing?

They are pretty useless on desktop

[open zenith]

My point, feels like they were added mostly to boost the core-count number on paper to improve marketing these CPUs.... Only applications that might be able to use them are properly multi-threaded compilers, render programs etc. Games are rarely that multi-threaded...

Don't really get why they don't put the focus on just P-Cores, but just trying to enhance their energy efficiency.

[pallid lava]

Because they can't? And neither does AMD, except for X3D cache

Feels like were hitting a wall of what's possible in the CPU space

[wet kelp]

there are. Windows scheduler is not even "good" by today's standards. install Linux 6.x kernel and you'll see what i mean pretty quickly

[wet kelp]

i feel like E-cores were a knee-jerk reaction to Intel being unprepared for AMD to beat them

they fast tracked their early gen lower-power cores to market

i think they will mature well, but they were released too early, without proper driver or OS support, and not powerful enough in their first generations

the question of "high power core that can do efficient low power work" vs. "dedicated high power and low power cores" is an interesting one

certainly AMD has had a lot of trouble working out power control on Linux, which is a complex problem when trying to manage sleep and low-power states, in the context of mutexes

(i worked with Mario Limonciello at AMD diagnosing some low-level power/mutex issues)

[open zenith]

Think this is the case yeah

[wet kelp]

i think AMD is doing them now aren't they?

[neat kestrel]

@crystal flame some people in the Ultra plus server are saying your mod is crushing shadow detail for them? Do you know what they may be doing wrong? I don't think the mod is supposed to do that.

[pallid lava]

They might have wack calibration

Or their monitors are doing some kind of sRGB gamma correction out of the box

[hybrid anvil]

it's literally what it does

raising blacks does add a bit of visibility in them (sometimes)

[crystal flame]

it does not crush a single pixel

ultra is crushing shadows by default in sdr. unless that changed

[neat kestrel]

Oh let me make sure they're not on sdr

They're on hdr

So ultra plus wouldn't be doing that

[summer gyro]

There’s a toggle in ersh’s mod so you can test for yourself

[neat kestrel]

Yea I plan to when I get home

[summer gyro]

Also keep in mind the people on that server probably don’t know anything about hdr

I saw someone recommending people download a reshade lut

He said that for every game he plays he searches AgX lut on nexus

[hybrid anvil]

some monitors have no details near black

like mine

so if you go too low

detail is crushed

not by the game, but by the monitor

obviously people don't know it's the monitor

[crystal flame]

well obviously

[pallid lava]

PC monitors
Never again

[crystal flame]

i mean what do they expect

lowering the black floor will make shadows darker, yes

it's not destroying a single pixel of information however

which is what black crush would do - reducing any sort of near zero value to zero, losing detail

is it harder to see? sure. that's why it's lowering shadow contrast by default

[neat kestrel]

I'm just trying to prevent misinformation and people being like "this mod crushes blacks" 🙂

[crystal flame]

thanks 🙂

[neat kestrel]

Np!

[crystal flame]

it is annoying to see the misinformation. we know exactly what's going on here in this case, the root cause and the exact fix. it's working exactly as it should, and is superior to any other manual method as it's precisely fixing the root cause, down to fractions of a nit since the UI fix. the only debatable thing is the shadow contrast lowering, but that's just an addition that tries to preserve the intentions of the devs

[neat kestrel]

Is anyone on the nexus page complaining about it? I haven't checked.

I just know nexus comments are always interesting

[crystal flame]

i just had to write two long replies today 😛

claiming that lilium's sdr trc fix + sdr black floor emulation works better

[neat kestrel]

Yes I've seen a few people in the U+ server saying this

[wet kelp]

i had forgotten about this command r.D3D.ForceDXC ... by default UE uses FXC, Epic's shader compiler, which GPT seems to think doesn't support wave operations and newer methods. it seems like r.D3D.ForceDXC should generally be switched on to force DXC for all games ??

[crystal flame]

fxc can't even compile sm6 so i'd be pretty confident that setting doesn't matter

[wet kelp]

i don't think we have any confirmation that SM6 is used in SH2 / other games do we?

yes SM6 is enabled through the config, but are any of its additional features in use?

[crystal flame]

uhh we do have confirmation

the dumped shaders are sm6

[wet kelp]

GPT

consensus is that DXC is now preferred for modern shader compilation due to its support for HLSL 2021 and newer features like wave intrinsics, SPIR-V output, and other advanced GPU features. FXC is still used in legacy or specific DXBC workflows, but its development has slowed in favor of DXC.

DXC also compiles shaders to DXIL (DirectX Intermediate Language), which offers more explicit control over flow and better support for modern GPU features. In some cases, FXC can be faster for simple shaders, but DXC is superior for complex workloads. The transition to DXIL, however, has introduced occasional performance issues, such as longer compilation times for certain shader passes (e.g., reflection passes) due to more complex intermediate representations.

For example, one case showed that while DXBC (compiled by FXC) performed better in some Direct3D 12 scenarios, DXIL (compiled by DXC) introduced slower compile times and performance issues in Vulkan​
[MICROSOFT DEVELOPER BLOGS]
[GRAHAM WIHLIDAL]

[wet kelp]

maybe they just bypass this switch

because it's off in every game i've seen and should be using FXC

[crystal flame]

that would be my guess. it'll use fxc if it can, otherwise dxc

[wet kelp]

(or maybe SM6 enablement explicitly enables DXC)

[crystal flame]

with that setting it'd maybe use dxc on everything

i don't know if there's any reason to do so

[wet kelp]

please God Epic rationalize your API/CVar documentation

yes

i'll try SH2 with it enabled now, i doubt there'll be any difference

i've come to the conclusion btw the biggest unfixable issue in UE games (stutter) is from HLODs). this is the last remaining issue in SH2 and Survivor. i think HLODs are built more slowly than expected, meaning there is a timing problem with shaders and materials mapped to the resulting HLOD meshes, causing texture/shader misses and resultant hitching

[crystal flame]

also @wet kelp fyi the black floor fix mod should also work in sdr, and should be used instead of the cvar that's inevitably going to crush black in some scenes that don't have a raise

[wet kelp]

i'm curious what you think on this analysis

[crystal flame]

i think it's just heavy actors spawning on level streaming

[wet kelp]

agree 100%. my understanding is the CVar does nothing with HDR? ... do people use the black floor fix on SDR?

[crystal flame]

because that happens on the game thread and is going to cause a stutter no matter what

[crystal flame]

cvar doesnt work in hdr. but shader works in both, and should have the same ideal result

do people use the black floor fix on SDR?
they should

i mean to be fair i have not checked if it works

but it should. it's the same shader

[wet kelp]

YES, but specifically HLOD actors... because all other meshes can be slowed down. HLODs there is very little control. there's more control in UE5.1+, but i still haven't been able to pace HLOD builds or fix the (assumed) race problem

[wet kelp]

okies, i'll remove and recommend more heavily. it's in my list of recommended mods 😊

[neat kestrel]

It works in sdr it seems

[crystal flame]

please test first because i might be misinformed in this case

[wet kelp]

okies 😊

[crystal flame]

cool!

[wet kelp]

i normally play SDR because i hate Windows in HDR and can't be bothered switching lol

[neat kestrel]

But yea also test it yourself to confirm!

[wet kelp]

wilco 😊

[crystal flame]

i can't be bothered switching too... which is why i stay in hdr all the time 😎

[wet kelp]

yes but other stuff can be spread across the task graph more evenly. and regular meshes are explicitly built in good time before shaders/materials. what i'm saying i guess is that HLOD has a race bug in the UE code. at least up to v5.1

[neat kestrel]

I'm always in hdr ha

[wet kelp]

Survivor has a second problem that the GT is spending ~13ms on physics in Koboh

but SH2 and Survivor HLODs is the same problem. i don't think HLODs are used at all in Hogwarts, they use mesh welding, which doesn't seem to have the problem

[crystal flame]

possible, i don't know enough about that to say anything of value. i just know that level streaming will have a terrible stutter when loading unoptimized actors because of the actor-spawn-happens-on-game-thread thing. and it's basically impossible to optimize them enough.

[wet kelp]

i would use SK to switch if it didn't crash games!

[crystal flame]

by unoptimized i mean actors that have a lot of logic and components

[wet kelp]

yes. well, pick up many vanilla games and they will have this problem. but adjust the timing, task graph and thread priorities, and this is fixable for regular meshes. that's become a pretty standard method in my mods, it could just about be copied between games if the dev hasn't diddled with the streamer/loading timing/code. but not HLODs

[crystal flame]

i hate how the switch itself takes so long before you can do anything. way too long black screen

[crystal flame]

for meshes yeah maybe. i'm talking about npcs or some other complicated actors here

[wet kelp]

they've added HLOD warmups in 5.1 to try and pace word position HLODs

wp.Runtime.HLOD.WarmupNumFrames
wp.Runtime.HLOD.WarmupVTScaleFactor
wp.Runtime.MaxLoadingStreamingCells
wp.Runtime.HLOD.WarmupVTSizeClamp

[neat kestrel]

I'd like to calibrate my monitor's sdr mode. I am going to buy a colorimeter next year

[wet kelp]

oh okay. yes, they're expensive. but generally clamping their frame time to 2.5 ~ 3.0 (with 0.0 forced extra load time) works well

[wet kelp]

same

the default UE settings is to allow i think 6.0 ms of extra loading time for NPC/enemy actors, which is a Bad Idea

it was fine when 30 fps was standard

this is the stuff i mean when i say Epic needs to rationalize/clean up their defaults

yeah

s.PriorityAsyncLoadingExtraTime | Float | 15.000000
s.PriorityLevelStreamingActorsUpdateExtraTime | Float | 3.000000

oh! Ersh the other problem is an overalloation problem... generally s.UnregisterComponentsTimeLimit is 1.0ms, which in many games is not enough to unregister components. often time taken streaming new actors is too long because the engine is trying to suddenly unregister previous actors

anyway. i need to look in the HLOD code. my suspicion is they're trying to pace HLODs, but it's actually a race bug

(possibly fixed in ~5.4...)

[crystal flame]

there's a ton of stuff they should do if half the industry is moving to their engine 😐

[wet kelp]

yeah

[wet kelp]

following your line of thought on actor load cost ... this is the Epic default in BaseEngine.ini ... ane effective -3.0 material LOD bias on every NPC (and probably enemies)

it's difficult to know if this ancient code is still active (probably), but all these things add up

[crystal flame]

but that would just affect file i/o right? what i mean, i think, is that it's not really the bottleneck. it's the logic running on game thread when actors spawn

[wet kelp]

right

[crystal flame]

an example, spawning a bunch of badly programmed bird actors (heavy components, or heavy logic in blueprints or whatever) when a level chunk loads

[wet kelp]

IO is a problem too

well, IO contention. but i doubt as much as crazy logic as you say

[crystal flame]

and there's no real fixing that with cvars. the actors need to be pooled and optimized, etc

(nothing to do with sh2, idk what's happening there)

[wet kelp]

if you add this in SH2 (default is 10) and turn off fog, you can see the physics rebuilding on enemies as they're spawned in

i feel like i want to get a job at Epic and just rage fix their tech debt

[wet kelp]

oh i'm well aware 😄

it's occasionally possible to enable another code path that doesn't have as many problems

or to pace things as they spawn at the edge of visibility

[crystal flame]

ye

[wet kelp]

what Julian Le Fay said to me will forever ring in my head ... "3D is about removing as much as possible as early as possible"

i would also add it's about pacing some things over frames. but UE has these problems

this is what bothers me so much about Nanite. devs go "oh we don't need to worry about meshes and draw calls any more"

btw (and then i'll finish my rant), this also the default ... a halving of all skeletel meshes going into the game

so you can imagine devs/artists putting their perfectly optimised meshes into the game, wondering why it's now lower quality, and re-increasing the poly count to fix it

fuuu

[neat kestrel]

🥴

[crystal flame]

can't fix bad monitors

all i can say is that it does not crush a single pixel, which is verifable with stuff like lilium's shader

how your screen displays that, is, well, not my business

[wet kelp]

monitor calibration?

[crystal flame]

just up your hdr brightness then or something, god

[wet kelp]

i need to do mine actually

[crystal flame]

like idk what they even expect. there's a uniform raised black floor. this removes that.
game too dark? then tweak your hdr settings or monitor. what's stopping you
the issue was a uniform raise and that's fixed

[neat kestrel]

I explained it again. I think they get it

Hopefully

[crystal flame]

appreciated

[neat kestrel]

Np

[summer gyro]

Maybe a slider for the gain and call it minimum nits?

Is it called gain?

Whatever the additive thing is called

[crystal flame]

well there is the slider already

wdym

oh that

wait so like, you can add the raise back?

fuck no 😄

[summer gyro]

For the people whose monitors crush near black

[crystal flame]

but they'll still have raised black floor then

[summer gyro]

Well ya

their monitors wouldn’t be capable of showing the 0 blacks

Actually they should probably just adjust the in game min luminance slider

[crystal flame]

yeah i think so too

just tweak the brightness

like, the defaults are way too dark now

the -9 min is ass

[summer gyro]

Ya I raised it to -1.4

[neat kestrel]

I'm at -0.2.

-2.0*

Old default

[crystal flame]

old was -4

[summer gyro]

Ya

The new defaults are fairly close to sdr

But it’s only 500 nits

[crystal flame]

the 500 nit default is just baffling 😄

[summer gyro]

And as discussed earlier adjusting the peak slider changes the entire image

[neat kestrel]

Then it's that haha

Whatever old default was

[neat kestrel]

That's what i use on mine ha. Cause i need 600 peak and it overshoots

@summer gyro when you have time, can you link me to your newest SH2 settings? I wanna try them out.

[summer gyro]

I think min luminance -4.0 was actually a closer match to sdr but after installing ersh's fix I liked raising min luminance to -1.4
#🖼️hdr-screenshots message these are all taken with it at -1.4

[neat kestrel]

Was Sammi saying that SH2 doesn't adjust lod bias at all with dlss?

[crystal flame]

they're using the official plugin so doubt it

[hybrid anvil]

the official plugin doesn't even do it 😄 ?

[neat kestrel]

she said it shows full LODs with any DLSS level

like LOD0?

Does that mean a negative bias of 0?

[crystal flame]

i’d expect it does what it’s supposed to, as it’s made by nvidia

[hybrid anvil]

there might not be an easy way in UE to change samplers

[neat kestrel]

@wet kelp when you get a chance can you explain here the issue with DLSS and lod bias in SH2? I don't understand it well enough to explain

[wet kelp]

oh it's just that LOD biasing is completely broken in this game

so DLSS can't do its bias

[neat kestrel]

So it's always clamped to zero?

[grizzled narwhal]

I'm getting really bad flickering with DLSS FG enabled. I'm using "Black Floor Fix and HDR DLSS Frame Generation Fix" as well.

Any ideas? Latest update.

[tough scarab]

if you have an intel cpu try removing cpu affinity from the last 4 threads

and see if it improves your frametimes

[grizzled narwhal]

AMD here, getting over 100+FPS but its flickering.

[summer gyro]

The stutters are just super bad

And it causes vrr to freak out

Best you can do is try sammilucia’s ultra plus mod to reduce stutters

Maybe turn off vrr and cap to 60

No great solutions unfortunately

[neat kestrel]

turn off vrr, turn off vsync, cap to 60

[tough scarab]

Intel players who get constant stutter should try my suggestion

it got me flat frametime graphs aside from traversal stutters

[grizzled narwhal]

I dont think its VRR because if I disable DLSS FG it stops flickering. Oddly enough, I was using the FSR FG mod in the past and never had flicker.

Reinstalling game now and retesting with just the HDR + floor fix.

[tough scarab]

FSR FG supposedly has a better frame limiter in this game

so would explain why it stuttered less

it overrides some logic in the engine

[grizzled narwhal]

Interesting, I will retest both.

[neat kestrel]

I'll personally be avoiding FG for this game

too buggy

[grizzled narwhal]

Fair, I just tank FPS without it on 4K lol.

With raytracing on.

[neat kestrel]

fps at 1440p on a 4080 super isn't much better in some areas ha

[grizzled narwhal]

4080 as well lol.

[neat kestrel]

it depends on the area

i'm capped to 60, so sometimes i get a perfect 60, no issues, and other times i'm dropping to like 50

[tough scarab]

the game is very cpu limited

but FG ought to overcome that

[neat kestrel]

Nah it's the GPU getting bottlenecked for me at least

[neat kestrel]

@crystal flame Sammi is saying that the engine code shows the default HDR mode as Dolby Vision. I thought that was odd and wanted to get your thoughts

apparently it has multiple HDR modes in the engine. rec709, p3, dolby vision

default is DV

[crystal flame]

that sounds like it’s another name for bt2020? either way i don’t think anyone touches that color space cvar, its auto selected

[neat kestrel]

I wonder what happens if you toggle it

[crystal flame]

colors wrong

[neat kestrel]

viiiviiiidd colors

[grizzled narwhal]

Anyone having issues with FSR3.1 FG on nvidia 3000?

It can be turned on but fps does not change.

[neat kestrel]

Idk but I think I'm gonna try FG. My fps in the prison sucks

[crystal flame]

you're acting like it's something complicated and not a toggle
just try it lol

[grizzled narwhal]

Can you please try FSR 3.1 + FG?

Pretty sure its broken, DLSS + FG works fine but flickers so bad.

[neat kestrel]

I will next time I play! I haven't had enough time lately to play stuff

[neat kestrel]

Idk how to enable that. Is it in the game settings?

[neat kestrel]

I don't use vrr. I assume that's what is flickering for you

[grizzled narwhal]

Yeap.

[neat kestrel]

Due to the crazy frametimes

[grizzled narwhal]

Its not, its DLSS FG.

[neat kestrel]

No I'm saying vrr is flickering due to the frametimes from dlss fg

[grizzled narwhal]

Gotcha yeah could be that but FSR FG mod had no issues initially lol.

And now the official support doesnt work. So im like wtf?

[neat kestrel]

Yea idk much about fsr fg. Maybe they have better frametimes

Are you using ultra+? I saw a lot of people saying they were having fsr issues

[grizzled narwhal]

Tried with and without.

[neat kestrel]

Oh ok. Well i can give it a try next time

[neon tusk]

Hey @summer gyro ! Been enjoying your HDR settings! Thanks for tuning those in. I am curious what method you use to compare sdr to HDR. I've been manually switching from HDR to sdr (vice versa) from the in game menu. It's uber painful. I assume there is a way to take screenshots while preserving accuracy? So far steam overlay screenshots appear to be a fail.

[neat kestrel]

You can use xbox game bar or SK to take screenshots. You can also do sdr inside hdr with SK at 2.2 to get a sdr pic.

Then you turn that off and switch the game's hdr on to take another screen

[neon tusk]

Awesome! Thanks

[neat kestrel]

Np

[summer gyro]

used SK to switch between sdr and hdr. with sk i can force hdr swapchain when the game is in sdr and set the gamma and brightness for sdr without any need for reshade shaders.

i took the screenshots with game bar

and then converted the jxrs to png using doge's tool

i did the comparisons without ultra+ installed

idk if its still doing it but sammi had added some stuff that changed gamma while in sdr with ultra+ installed

[summer gyro]

sdr trc fix isn't needed when using sk

its only for when using an sdr swapchain

[neat kestrel]

Oh yea. You're right. Got mixed up.

I edited the comment

[quartz epoch]

I have completed the video game

enjoyed it way more than I expected, especially after dismissing the remake initially when it was announced

[neat kestrel]

Does anyone turn vignette off in this game?

[summer gyro]

vignette off in a dark, moody horror game seems like a bad idea

would just make it too bright

[neat kestrel]

Might yea

[neon tusk]

Random question but has anyone figured out what hdr tonemapping curve the game uses? (crudely what equation those hdr slider values get plugged into)? I assume some variant of UE default? Haven't looked at decompiled shaders too closely but I assume the curve could be extracted from there.

For SDR I assume it's ACES or something like that

Sorry if my question doesn't make sense. I may have knowledge gaps

[summer gyro]

aces

but something is fucked up cause increasing peak doesn't just increase peak

it also increases the contrast

the shader they're using from UE is unchanged

thats how the black floor fix mod was made cause ersh just booted up an empty ue project and made the edits in the shader there

[crystal flame]

this is 5.1, we thought you couldn’t even adjust peak before 5.3. so it’s likely scuffed in some way

[neat kestrel]

5.1 and 5.3 what?

[summer gyro]

UE

[neat kestrel]

Oh my bad

Thx

[neat kestrel]

Man, I just got to the prison last night

first of all, how did I even get there? Is the prison in the basement of the historical society building?

also it's sooooooooooooo dark

[quartz epoch]

regarding the prison: ||the historical society was built on the former site of the prison, so you're not really there in a literal sense||

[neat kestrel]

was the prison like half a mile underground? haha

i went down the looong staircase

i thought i was missing something because i had to run down for like 5 minutes

but finally I got to a door

[quartz epoch]

yeah haha, definitely not going to want to think about things too literally with what comes post-prison

[neat kestrel]

haha

i mean you're clearly in some sort of like demon realm

so yea

I actually never played SH2 so I have no idea what is actually happening 🙂

My theory is that the town ||manifests itself differently depending on who is in it. That's why other humans you meet have no idea what you're talking about or look at you weird when you say that the town is not safe and they have to leave||

I suspect that ||only James sees all the fucked up shit in that way and other people see other things that scare them.||

[quartz epoch]

2's decent as a first timer, because it's largely standalone apart from a few references, whereas 1, 3 and 4 are a lot more interconnected

1 and 3 especially

[quartz epoch]

🤐

[neat kestrel]

we'll see how close I am

also Eddie is by far the creepiest character i've ever seen

dude looks like he just shit his pants every time you see him, but somehow he's terrifying

[quartz epoch]

the scene where he's eating ice cream out of the tub with his hands is more sinister than any of the monsters

[neat kestrel]

haha

yea he clearly is having a different experience from James

[neat kestrel]

well hopefully they'll keep making more of them! Not sure why they started with 2 though? Maybe since it was standalone and they wanted to test the waters? Idk

I never played any of the SH games

[quartz epoch]

there's a few other SH projects in the works besides any other potential remakes

"Silent Hill F" looks like it could be neat from its teaser, but who knows

[tough scarab]

Fs in the chat

most interesting new SH game was the cancelled PT/Silent Hills

[neat kestrel]

that's not a remake?

[quartz epoch]

no, new title

[neat kestrel]

oh, like completely new story?

cool

I thought all of the silent hill games were kinda standalone

[rigid river]

I hope they end up doing a remake of the first one

[quartz epoch]

there's some cult stuff which 1, 3 and 4 gets into quite heavily, but 2 all but ignores, which is why 2 works as a standalone story pretty well

[quartz epoch]

it's a shame that it never panned out, but that led to Death Stranding which was one of my favourite releases last gen, so I'll take it

[neat kestrel]

yea that game was fantastic

i hope the sequel is good

[tough scarab]

there needs to be a big expansion of the traversal mechanics

because after the first third of the game it's sort of trivialized by all the equipment you get

and in the DC version they added even more gadgets to make it even easier

[quartz epoch]

the flash floods, rock slides/avalanches, wild fires etc. seem like a good addition in terms of adding a little more difficulty to the traversal

[crystal flame]

it did kinda feel cool, when you get a new one and realize how useful it is
"oh damn i can do shit so much faster/easier now"

it couldnt escalate forever

i thought it was kinda balanced nicely that you never felt like grinding

[summer gyro]

the oxygen mask never had any use

beside like one area

[crystal flame]

though if someone wanted something like a truck simulator zen kinda work out of the game then i guess they were too op

[summer gyro]

I also didn't like that ladders and the climbing anchor aren't all that useful cause an alternate path is usually right around the corner

[tough scarab]

the other thing was the whole thing with corpses setting off tactical nuke explosions

it was supposed to be much more important

and in the world/story it's a huge deal

[neat kestrel]

I liked that. The game would have been mega boring without the gear/tech

[tough scarab]

you never got to see the devastation from a corpse going necro in some populated area

[neat kestrel]

Yea I'm not sure how that worked becuase I always just knocked people out. I guess they can't destroy populated areas but can destroy unpopulated areas?

[crystal flame]

oh yeah that was just a game over condition right?

[neat kestrel]

was it game over?

i thought it just makes a giant crater

[crystal flame]

i think so? if you didnt dispose before time's up, game over

[neat kestrel]

oh wow

[summer gyro]

I definitely killed a few guys in my first playthrough but can't remember anything coming from it

[neat kestrel]

then idk why they bother giving you lethal weapons

you basically can't use them

[crystal flame]

yyeah

[quartz epoch]

you can take the corpses to the incinerators or chuck them into the tar lake

[tough scarab]

before release he was describing that as being a huge mechanic in the game, especially in how it could affect the environment

[neat kestrel]

yea

[crystal flame]

it was probably cut or cut down at least

guess he planned more

[neat kestrel]

Maybe it can be more of a thing in the 2nd game

[quartz epoch]

DS2 has the robots as well, so that seems like a good way to have some more shooting combat without it feeling awkward

[tough scarab]

But they missed the chance to even show the devastation in a scripted mission at least

[neat kestrel]

there was a voidout in a mission

it destroyed a city

closer to the beginning

when you are bringing the body to the incinerator

[quartz epoch]

I kind of wish DS had some STALKER/Roadside Picnic esque anomalies

BT areas almost felt like anomaly fields in their own way

[tough scarab]

The new game looks like it has more stuff like that

[crystal flame]

also ds2 was supposedly completely rewritten after covid right? i wonder what the original was going to be

[neat kestrel]

The satisfaction you got from building roads though.....

Ha who knows

[tough scarab]

gonna be annoying waiting months for PC release

maybe it will be less time than DS

[neat kestrel]

maybe

I might wait if they're just gonna do a director's cut again

[quartz epoch]

I completely lack the patience to wait for the PC port of DS2 (and GTA VI), so I opted to do a silly instead

[tough scarab]

my gf might get a Pro this xmas but I am not sure I want to play them on console even if I can

the one thing I might want to borrow it for is playing RE4 on PSVR2

since I own the headset for PC use

[neat kestrel]

Play RE7 😛

[quartz epoch]

I borrowed a PS4 Pro for RDR2, TLOU2 and DS, but nobody I know owns a PS5, so this time it's on me

[tough scarab]

900€ console and GTA 6 is still gonna be 30 fps

[quartz epoch]

yeeeep

[tough scarab]

actually Sony should also try to make their own AI based FG

for slower games like that 30 to 60 wouldn't be too bad

[quartz epoch]

I figure they will with PS6 with continued growth of PSSR

[tough scarab]

FSR FG is unusable at 30 fps