▫️Silent Hill 2 Remake

[wet kelp]

me either

Hogwarts had this badly too. idk wtf they were doing

[crystal flame]

they raised it because they didnt see shit, and didnt know this way looks terrible on oleds

[hybrid anvil]

Super Mario 6?

[summer gyro]

also it negatively affects visibility when its a flat raise instead of doing something smarter

[wet kelp]

it's actually like they go "the fog doesn't surround the character! ... well let's just raise the black floor so it looks foggy" .... rather than fix the actual issue which is the fog start distance setting in UE !

[tough scarab]

They develop and art direct these games 99% of the time looking at IPS monitors, and maybe sometimes checking it on a decent TV for the HDR look

[crystal flame]

i am trying to find the smarter way now. contrast looks a bit weird. kinda deepfried

[wet kelp]

(which is an absolute pain to fix)

[tough scarab]

So even when they test the game on some hopefully decent OLED tv for the HDR, they are probably used to the raised black LCD look

only explanation I have for why this keeps happening

systematically

[crystal flame]

yea

and implying they ever tested it on an oled is very optimistic imo

[tough scarab]

I guess so, probably tested on the same monitor which can output an HDR signal

even most random cheap ones have been able to for years

[crystal flame]

the 27gl850 💀

i have no idea what it tries to do in hdr but it sure aint right

[tough scarab]

my first experience with HDR was some VA 4K non gaming monitor back when they were still a new thing around 2017-18

surprisingly it usually resulted in a better looking image when I used HDR on it

[crystal flame]

what about something like this

you can make out some detail

[summer gyro]

would need a comparison

also im on lcd

[crystal flame]

compare to the previous, currently cant do it at runtime

[tough scarab]

still no fake player light removal mod

[summer gyro]

try the hdr calibration menu

[crystal flame]

that shader doesnt run there

i'm modifying how coloroffset is applied in color grading

[summer gyro]

the bathroom at the start of the game maybe

[crystal flame]

i mean its the same place as the previous screenshot, its not the same camera angle

[summer gyro]

walk into a corner and aim the camera at a spot that you can easily replicate i guess

[summer gyro]

the issue is that this is probably too dark for LCD users

like i cant see much

[crystal flame]

but you can't see much on either screenshot on a lcd

[summer gyro]

oh wait i didnt see the original when i scrolled up

it looks pretty good

[wet kelp]

this silent optimizer is just another wrong engine.ini mod

[summer gyro]

so you aren't able to make an hlsl?

[crystal flame]

i am editing the original shader and dumping it through an unreal project

no decompilation, original source

[summer gyro]

ah so you don't have a way to copy the included stuff

[crystal flame]

wdym

[summer gyro]

why aren't you able to just make an hlsl from that code

[crystal flame]

it is hlsl

i just can't compile it alone

i rely on unreal doing it

it has a bunch of includes and whatever

[summer gyro]

ya thats what I meant

[crystal flame]

aight yea

[summer gyro]

well maybe you could hardcode the full include paths

in reno and then build it with a slider to find your magic number

it looks pretty good though

i would prefer a little less strong so the average brightness is closer and it reveals more detail

[crystal flame]

less?

[summer gyro]

well how is it working exactly

maybe blending the original image with your lowered image could help

[crystal flame]

you mean the other direction from this i guess?

[summer gyro]

ooh that looks nice

[crystal flame]

it looks kinda weird tho

wait

skiv shat itself wtf is this

[summer gyro]

my room is too bright for a good comparison at this time

dont have blackout curtains

[hybrid anvil]

this looks good I think

but it'd need to be tested with multiple raised black baseline values.

[summer gyro]

depends how it scales

ya

[crystal flame]

WHAT IS SKIV DOING

here have a jxr

does that look weird or no

[summer gyro]

the jxr looks fine, here it is as png

super dark though

[crystal flame]

it seems a bit deepfried to me

but supposedly aw3225qf has near black issues so idk

[wet kelp]

he's copying shit out of my mod

[summer gyro]

its super dark to me but no colors seem off

well i can't really see anything in that photo

do you need to do it by luminance so its hue preserving

maybe you could use oklab to apply the saturation and hue of the original color and see what happens

you can just include the path to the renodx.hlsl folder in src/shaders/

[hybrid anvil]

put weird spacing in your mod so u can tell when they copy it 😄

they won't bother to change it

these are also non case sensitive

so u can do

r.AllOwHdR = 1

[summer gyro]

if you want to take the saturation of one float3 and apply it to another float3:

  if (strength == 0.f) return incorrect_color;

  float3 correct_lab = renodx::color::oklab::from::BT709(correct_color);
  float3 correct_lch = renodx::color::oklch::from::OkLab(correct_lab);

  float3 incorrect_lab = renodx::color::oklab::from::BT709(incorrect_color);
  float3 incorrect_lch = renodx::color::oklch::from::OkLab(incorrect_lab);
  incorrect_lch[1] = correct_lch[1];

  float3 color = renodx::color::bt709::from::OkLCh(incorrect_lch);
  color = renodx::color::bt709::clamp::AP1(color);
  return color;
}```
you convert them both to oklchthen take the chroma component of one (.y channel) and apply it to another

[wet kelp]

he's just cherry picking lines as i change things (the spacing doesn't line up at all, he's collected junk commands from reddit too)

it's so frustrating

[wet kelp]

yes this is a good point! actually maybe i'll add some "magical" parameters that don't exist to trap him! good one!

UE has an amazingly good ini parser, it doesn't actually handle comments at all, all it does is look for known commands and ignores everything else. you could put ANSI art in there if you want 🤣

[crystal flame]

r.DisableStutter = 1

[hybrid anvil]

r.AllowAsyncTick = 1
r.MultithreadedGameLoop = 1
r.UnlockRawFrameRate = 1

[crystal flame]

subtler

[summer gyro]

r.DownloadMoreRam = 1

[pallid lava]

r.RunCrysis=1

[wet kelp]

hahaha

i was also considering putting r.ImWatchingYouFrank=8008

[crystal flame]

ooh personal

[wet kelp]

yeah. hey, i am all for sharing code and building a better world together. but fucking credit your source

basic FOSS manners

he's never done an optimization mod in 140 mods as far as i can see (some NSWF mods) https://next.nexusmods.com/profile/FrancisLouis/mods

yep, i freaking disabled this, he deleted it. sprung! asshole

eh, i think i'll leave it. it's going to be very obvious if he steals my latest changes

[crystal flame]

this should work now with ultra+

[wet kelp]

ooh! yay! 😊

[crystal flame]

so much nicer without the raise

[hybrid anvil]

ok, now fix stutters pls

[crystal flame]

[quartz epoch]

before and after

[gray parrot]

Yall already made Renodx for the game!? That was extremly fast

[quartz epoch]

what happened to being born with the power to not mind them 😉

[crystal flame]

its the black floor fix, just packed in a renodx

[hybrid anvil]

i'm ok with them, I can play it

though I got to a couple areas that are terrible

[crystal flame]

the apartments are the worst

so far at least

[quartz epoch]

I was just poking fun

the apartments were the worst for me, because rather than the larger but fewer stutters I had on the streets before that, it felt like constant micro stuttering in the apartments

the hospital is a night and day difference compared to the apartments

[summer gyro]

his jacket is less green

unacceptable

ersh is now banned

[crystal flame]

i doubt it's even affecting those pixels, they're too bright 😄

[quartz epoch]

the menu really demonstrates the black floor fix in action

[crystal flame]

lemme know if yall think its too dark or too bright now. i just chose a value that looked good for that gamma boost that is a tradeoff for the lowered floor but it's not based on anything at all

i feel like it's decently balanced now, you actually gain some shadow detail, it's not just lowering the floor

[tired mural]

@crystal flame hijack an unused ini value

[crystal flame]

huh?

[tired mural]

hijack an unused shader variable and use it to configure the shadow

[crystal flame]

oh, well the issue is reading something new in the shader

unreal doesnt seem to let me compile with an added cbuffer

[tired mural]

InACESMidData.w is unused

[crystal flame]

mmm

but how do i push a value there

[tired mural]

normal unreal ini no?

[crystal flame]

nope

[tired mural]

i don't know the ini list

[crystal flame]

c++ pushes stuff there and it's all interlinked i think

[hybrid anvil]

this looks good now

[tired mural]

FACESTonemapParams()
    : ACESMinMaxData(2.50898620e-06f, 1e-4f, 692.651123f, 1000.0f)
    , ACESMidData(0.0822144598f, 4.80000019f, 1.55f, 1.0f)
    , ACESCoefsLow_0(-4.00000000f, -4.00000000f, -3.15737653f, -0.485249996f)
    , ACESCoefsHigh_0(-0.332863420f, 1.69534576f, 2.75812411f, 3.00000000f)
    , ACESCoefsLow_4(1.84773231f)
    , ACESCoefsHigh_4(3.0f)
    , ACESSceneColorMultiplier(1.5f)
    , ACESGamutCompression(0.0f)

ACESMidData .w which says 1.0 is unsed

[crystal flame]

like this, probably

[tired mural]

not sure what the ini is to modify ACESMidData is

[crystal flame]

there is no cvar for that

[tired mural]

https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/blob/6e1b8bbc8bd07363ff20517939c2096f3083f051/Engine/Shaders/Private/TonemapCommon.ush#L374 i guess it chops up the 4 into 3?

[crystal flame]

that's not the problem

c++ pushes the values and it's all hardcoded like that

[tired mural]

but the shader reads ini values as pushed by c++

[crystal flame]

no

[tired mural]

or you're saying it's baked in the source

[crystal flame]

it is baked yes

[tired mural]

let me see which i know isn't used

[crystal flame]

it only reads min, mid, max luminance

[tired mural]

yeah, it's baked in the decompile now that i remember

[crystal flame]

if reno could push a value there in that ACESMidData.w then it'd work

[tired mural]

there's a custom gamma value that is only used with EXR tonemap type i think

basically never runs in any game, but is pushed as a cbuffer

this one ```cpp
// OutputDevice == TONEMAPPER_OUTPUT_ExplicitGammaMapping
// Gamma 2.2, user specified gamut
else
{
// Convert from the working color space to specified output gamut
float3 OutputGamutColor = mul( AP1_2_Output, mul( (float3x3)WorkingColorSpace.ToAP1, FilmColor ) );

    // This is different than the prior "gamma" curve adjustment (but reusing the variable).
    // For displays set to a gamma colorspace.
    // Note, MacOSX native output is raw gamma 2.2 not sRGB!
    OutDeviceColor = pow( OutputGamutColor, InverseGamma.z );
}

InverseGamma.z

[lost spire]

I still need to find the brightness cbuffer to kill ingame sliders

[crystal flame]

that's not a cvar either

[lost spire]

@crystal flame so what are you cooking up? a fixed lutbuilder; but using the unreal engine ush vs. decompiled from the game?

[crystal flame]

tiny edit to the color grading in the lutbuilder, yes. clean source without any decompilation mess.
drawback is that i can't seem to easily push a cbuffer there. unreal won't let me compile

would need to compile the engine from source which is a massive time sink

[lost spire]

tiny edit? so not what I do?

where I replace the shitty aces with good aces

[crystal flame]

no, why? the only problem is they're using shadow color offsets to deliberately raise the black floor everywhere

[lost spire]

idk

[crystal flame]

which looks like total ass on an oled

[lost spire]

shortfuse says the built in aces is ass

unless it changed between ~4.27 [my weeb games] -> 5.0+

[crystal flame]

i have no complaints about how the game looks aside from that

[lost spire]

if you end up digging around lutbuilders and the sample shader (the shader with 543, what samples the lutbuilder) and find the cbuffer for brightness; let me know

I've been digging for a while

[crystal flame]

its not there

[tired mural]

r0.w = cmp(cb0[35].w == 0.000000);
  if (r0.w != 0) {
    r0.w = dot(r1.xyz, float3(0.212599993,0.715200007,0.0722000003));
    r1.w = cmp(cb0[67].y < r0.w);
    r2.x = -cb0[67].y + r0.w;
    r2.x = -cb0[67].z * r2.x;
    r2.x = r2.x / cb0[67].x;
    r2.y = cb0[67].x + -cb0[67].y;
    r2.x = 1.44269502 * r2.x;
    r2.x = exp2(r2.x);
    r2.x = -r2.y * r2.x + cb0[67].x;
    r2.xzw = r2.xxx * r1.xyz;
    r2.xzw = r2.xzw / r0.www;
    r2.xzw = r1.www ? r2.xzw : r1.xyz;
    r3.xyz = cmp(cb0[67].yyy < r1.xyz);
    r4.xyz = -cb0[67].yyy + r1.xyz;
    r4.xyz = -cb0[67].zzz * r4.xyz;
    r4.xyz = r4.xyz / cb0[67].xxx;
    r4.xyz = float3(1.44269502,1.44269502,1.44269502) * r4.xyz;
    r4.xyz = exp2(r4.xyz);
    r4.xyz = -r2.yyy * r4.xyz + cb0[67].xxx;
    r3.xyz = r3.xyz ? r4.xyz : r1.xyz;
    r2.xyz = -r3.xyz + r2.xzw;
    r2.xyz = cb0[67].www * r2.xyz + r3.xyz;
    r1.xyz = r2.xyz;
  } else {

this is the mobile tonemapper thing

[lost spire]

you sent me the source before, but it just tells me what I already assumed -- brightness is handled by pow

[tired mural]

so cbo[67].xyzw would be free if cb[35].w is 0

[crystal flame]

its somewhere else entirely. probably some sort of final shader

[lost spire]

I mean my games dont have any of that

we have the lutbuilder, then the sample shader which is whats drawn on the swapchain

and then all the ui elements are drawn on the swapchain seperatly

[crystal flame]

game brightness would affect the ui

which is why i'm saying it'd be later

[lost spire]

there are ui brightness sliders too!

[crystal flame]

then its not the generic unreal brightness

that one is just the brightness slider you'd have in any old game

[lost spire]

I have to find a tool that lets me read cbuffer values, so I can increase/decrease the ingame brightness slider and see waht cbuffer changes

[crystal flame]

but can renodx push a value into that cb0[67].xyzw?

[tired mural]

nah, not in dx12

[crystal flame]

yeah so rip

[tired mural]

idea is to find an ini that writes to an unused cbuffer

or, you can hijack a known cbuffer and rewrite it

like tonemaptype

like, 1.5 is tonemaptype 1 and 0.5 strength

as an example, tonemaptype probably shouldn't be forced

[crystal flame]

y know what i'm actually not sure the shader failed to compile

maybe it just failed to run

[tired mural]

devkit will tell you if it's being replaced

devkit auto attaches to existing addons

[crystal flame]

its not that

it's unreal that was crashing on me with an error after i recompiled

but, well, that scene uses the shader, so it'd try to run it and an ensure would fail

[tired mural]

dxcpl will tell you if it's not accepting the new shader

[crystal flame]

TEXT("Shader %s, permutation %d has unbound parameters not represented in the parameter struct:"), Type->GetName(), PermutationId);

but that probably means the shader already did compile

i just need to dump it

[crystal flame]

@tired mural what's up with the thaumaturge cbuffer? how does that work

[quartz epoch]

just played a bit more and seems good so far 👍

[tired mural]

i rebuilt the shader from decompilation. with dx12 (SM5.1 really), i can just slap any cbuffer in space 50

dx12 is easier that way

but you have to operate in your own space

you can't read/write other cbuffers easily

[crystal flame]

ah so i cant just add a tiny struct like that?

[tired mural]

cbuffer injectedBuffer : register(b0, space50) {
  ShaderInjectData injectedData : packoffset(c0);
}

yeah, if unreal doesn't mind

[crystal flame]

yeah that

hm ok. it seems it does manage to dump before crashing, so hey

we'll see

turbo scuffed if that works

[tired mural]

i have ```cpp
renodx::mods::shader::on_init_pipeline_layout = [](reshade::api::device* device, auto, auto) {
return device->get_api() == reshade::api::device_api::d3d12;
};
renodx::mods::shader::expected_constant_buffer_space = 50;

first line is so it doesn't try to inject cbuffer into dx11 overlays

the "14 cbuffers" thing is a lie, i think. it's 14 per space. in theory we never need to overwrite buffers. but you'd need SM5.1 or above for spaces i think

[crystal flame]

well it is sm6

[tired mural]

i think @lost spire did a SM5 mod and just bumped the recompiled shader version to 5.1 and did custom cbuffer with space and it worked

[lost spire]

yea

I did that for like 4 games now

dx12, rename 5_0 -> 5_1

and use slot 50 in shared.h and addon.cpp

doesn't work in dx11; but we have good ole cb13 in dx11

[lost spire]

https://github.com/marat569/renodx/tree/visionsofmana/src/games/visionsofmana

shared.h for the def

and addon.cpp for the cbuffer slot50 line on the bottom

also it should work for sm6, it just doesn't work for sm5

but 5.1 and up

[lost spire]

I have the return too for my dx12 mods

[gray parrot]

@crystal flame How do I toggle the black floor add-on On and Off? Do I have to restart the game every time to do so?

[summer gyro]

ya you have to restart

[crystal flame]

omg it worked

i got settings

holy shit the compilation method is so scuffed

[crystal flame]

gimme a 5 mins and you wont have to

[hybrid anvil]

how

[crystal flame]

i dump shaders before unreal crashes

i also found this stuff

      renodx::mods::swapchain::force_borderless = true;
      renodx::mods::swapchain::prevent_full_screen = true;

this works too, the game doesnt reorganize your desktop every time you alttab

[tired mural]

so it's forcing scrgb? or did you switch that to hdr10?

[crystal flame]

switched to hdr10 yea

[tired mural]

you know, it's not really a SH2 mod. it's a Unreal 5.1 mod

[crystal flame]

yeah true

god the compilation process is ridiculous

there's probably a way to compile and dump that doesnt replace the running shaders (so won't crash the editor)

[summer gyro]

game immediately crashed for me

[crystal flame]

hm

maybe it's the swapchain stuff?

[tired mural]

uh.. forced HDR maybe

[crystal flame]

wait

[tired mural]

the swapchain mod basically assumes you run windows in HDR

[crystal flame]

try this i guess

[summer gyro]

that one opened the splash screen and once I got into the game it immediately crashed as reshade was compiling shaders

SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
SHProto_Win64_Shipping
kernel32
ntdll```

[crystal flame]

[quartz epoch]

this didn't crash for me

loaded into my save fine

[summer gyro]

let me remove ultra plus and see if it changes anything

[quartz epoch]

ah yeah, I'm not using that mod

could be it

[tired mural]

it needs to be on dx12 to accept the space50

might have to remove unreal shader cache

[summer gyro]

removed ultra plus and this works but its super washed out

like when you have an image encoded in gamma and try to display it on a linear swapchain

[summer gyro]

ok this one works perfect

without ultra plus

[crystal flame]

[quartz epoch]

mine's looking as I'd expect it to (with default Reno settings)

[crystal flame]

yeah think the defaults are good but you can play around with them and compare with vanilla

[quartz epoch]

is there any point in me swapping to the second one, or was that just trying to fix Musa's issue?

[crystal flame]

the contrast/gamma selection is interesting too. gamma seemed to look slightly better for me

[crystal flame]

no, you'll have the game reorganizing your windows every time with that version

[quartz epoch]

sweet, I'll stick with this, then

ideal

[summer gyro]

i prefer the contrast offset

[quartz epoch]

I'll probably increase the offset a tiny bit over this, but I'm liking how the black floor makes the red of the save point pop more in this scene

[crystal flame]

unfortunately the multiplier doesnt work the same way so it's hard to compare

[summer gyro]

using contrast offset allowed me to only touch the shadows without the rest of the image being affected too much

[crystal flame]

it all only affects whatever unreal considers shadows

[summer gyro]

SDR 2.2 300 / HDR peak1100 midtones46 min-1.4 bright 1

midtones 46 cause thats what sammi said was the value in sdr and min 1.4 cause its close to 1.3 which is 10^-1.3 = 0.05

[crystal flame]

i try not to touch the hdr settings. they're all just unreal defaults

contrast needs a slightly higher multiplier to match

like 25 vs 33 or something

[wet kelp]

just checking, this is UE 5.1 ?

[gray parrot]

Pls do a 800 peak. I like your settings

PS, sucks that it wont work with Ultra Plus

[summer gyro]

I adjusted peak and you only need to move min luminance down slightly as you lower peak

these settings looked really similar to 300 nits sdr so i just used pumboautohdr to scale down paper white by 203/300 in [these pics](#🖼️hdr-screenshots message)

[crystal flame]

@summer gyro yeah gamma kinda changes colors

contrast is probably better

[summer gyro]

ye

[crystal flame]

hmm contrast 30 i guess?

[summer gyro]

i did 25

[crystal flame]

new defaults, and i removed the bonus, non relevant swapchain code to be safer. split it into a second addon

[summer gyro]

30 slightly raised some parts of the image i think

[crystal flame]

this won't let the game enter fullscreen mode so it won't mess up all your windows on every alt tab

extra tiny

[summer gyro]

what color space is it doing the contrast adjustment and gain in. AP1?

[crystal flame]

i'm not sure, i think so?

what i'm doing is kinda just taking (part of) the value in color grading they put for shadow color offset, transforming it with the mult (and -1 in case of contrast) and adding it to the shadow contrast instead.

so i don't really do any custom alterations there

basically i just force the engine to do what i think should've been done to achieve the effect desired by the devs (shadow brightening) but by using a color grading control that doesn't look bad on oleds

[quartz epoch]

kind of wish I wasn't as far as I am on this playthrough to get more use out of this, but there's always NG+

hopefully by then there's a mod to turn off or tone down the hero lighting on James

[ebon zealot]

mod to fix the overly bright rain would also be great

[strong stream]

does it have compatiblity with ultra plus now?

[wet kelp]

so it turns out i completely broke v0.8

hi, i'm samantha, i break things

[tough scarab]

yeah I crashed upon startup with it

at least when using it with the addons posted above

didn't try without them

[tough scarab]

what in game settings should be used?

[wet kelp]

i am not sure how it ever worked

i had half of the Days Gone config in there?

[tough scarab]

I saw a comment on your mod once

asking why BendGame was in there

[wet kelp]

😂

that's what it was

should move to #1293113206687928322

[wet kelp]

v0.8 is up on nexus and is fixed. I had part of the Days Gone mod in there (I honestly don't even know how). anyway it works again if anyone wants to test with RenoDX 😊

do you know if it possible to inject CVars into the engine via a ReShade added? there are several commands that aren't considered valid by the ini parser

[hybrid pumice]

Works great with RenoDX 👍
0.7.2 worked fine too tho

[wet kelp]

oh great! ty

okay, idk what I did to the version of 0.7 I had lol

[open zenith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zl3mJYdoxU Switching to D3D11 amazes the guy as to why it gives huge performance gains 😂 It likely leads to issues like crashes as the devs don't test with it. And it disables all RT-effects etc. But these YouTubers never test these cases properly of course haha

For every DX12 UE game YouTubers produce content like this, but those DX11 renderers almost always have weakened stability, broken menus, missing effects etc.

[gray parrot]

yeah no wonder they get a FPS boost turning all the bells and whistles by downgrading the game

[crystal flame]

i just use the defaults. musa posted some settings though

[gray parrot]

i got to the Hotle last night and it was super stuttery with v 0.8.0 - Im guessing cuz I was carrying some Days Gone zombie data with me LOL

need to update tonight and retry with new black floor as well, im guessing its been updated to be toggled on and off on the go now @crystal flame

[summer gyro]

#1291021198628618353 message

#🖼️hdr-screenshots message

[crystal flame]

yep

[gray parrot]

thanks to you @wet kelp game looks to be a lot more promising now. I still dont know whether to keep using Ray Reconstrution or not though with Ultra Plus, Id hate to leave quality on the table

[wet kelp]

nope, turn it off, RR is blurry compared to what I've done, which is beautiful

[gray parrot]

I will once I figure out how to turn it off lol

[wet kelp]

short version... Lumen reflections use temporal denoising by default, BUT they're averaging 32 frames, which is blurry. I changed it to 4 frames, which sharpens it up, but removed the noise I had before

here's the thing... Lumen has a spatiotemporal ... what is RR? a spatiotemporal denoiser. what nobody talks about is... Epic did it first. Nvidia copied them

Ray reconstruction reuses spatiotemporal rays (it keeps a reservoir of rays in space and time... spatiotemporal). so does Lumen

Lumen does it better, tbh

BUT, Epics defaults are often wrong

okay that wasn't short lol

[gray parrot]

in the back of my mind, I keep thinking Special K is also causing some stutter in this game

[wet kelp]

it can... it changed the frame timing

[gray parrot]

I see, I think I will make the tough choice and not play in SK then

Screenshots be damned

[wet kelp]

I'm looking at rivatuna at the moment because I realized it also changes the frame timing

it tries to apply like a reflex kind of thing

I know!

[gray parrot]

you cant trust anybody nowadays!

[wet kelp]

and for fixing this stuff I can't have anything interfering

[gray parrot]

yeah I didnt know these monitoring tools can cause such issues, thats lame

[gray parrot]

do you use MSI afterburner in conjunction with Riva?

[wet kelp]

check it out, this is the default settings

it's per game

it's using an async frame rate limiter

(and passive CPU waiting)

[pallid lava]

Is that bad?

[wet kelp]

you can also force reflex here

... no, it's just interfering. the problem - is unreal doing the same thing? does it conflict with what RTSS is doing?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

is it better? is it worse? could it be part of why UE has so many stutters and Epic can't work it out, because half the people are using RTSS? we don't know!

[pallid lava]

Is RTSS interfering with default settings even when fame rate limiter is not used?

[wet kelp]

the RHI is a very tightly tuned thing

[pallid lava]

If so, how to fix it without getting rid of RTSS entirely

[wet kelp]

it's always on by default from what i can tell

if i add a new game in there, it turns it on for that game

[pallid lava]

even when you have values 0/0 for the limiter and s-sync?

[wet kelp]

where aboots?

oh i see what you mean 'toggle framerate limiter'

idk ... is it on or off by default?

lemme map those keys and see what happens

[pallid lava]

I believe it's off with those values

I agree about SK and UE btw, but I dunno if it's because of framerate limiter in particular
SK by default hooks it's claws into the game pretty deeply

afaik even compatibility config doesn't solve issues entirely

[wet kelp]

hmm is there a way for it to show whether it's using frame pacing

ok

[gray parrot]

SK itself has a built in Frame Limiter, i always toggle it off

[wet kelp]

it can help with some games. but it's also opinionated and the game can be too

[pallid lava]

SK has a bunch of stuff enabled by default, and UE doesn't seem to like be tinkered with on this level

I remember folks saying to disable texture cache in SK when using on the UE game

[wet kelp]

lol my CPU is always pegged at 100 C

i should probably get a heat pad for this laptop 😂

[wet kelp]

it doesn't

despite the crap it gets, UE is a very finely tuned thing

[pallid lava]

https://x.com/iamRayy_/status/1844381561208307952

Ray (@iamRayy_) on X

Took @CapFrameX v1.7.4 beta for a spin in #SilentHill2Remake to check out the CPU/GPU Busy Metric.

For some reason, the game is insanely CPU-limited indoors. Epic preset + RT On (hardware lumen) here takes 23.1ms of CPU time; even the Low preset is over my 16ms target at 18.4ms.

Twitter · Oct 10, 2024, 2:16 PM

[wet kelp]

i don't think its RHI is the best around... enable FSR3 FG and you can see what a really advanced RHI performs like, but it still doesn't like being messed with

[wet kelp]

ooo

[pallid lava]

Problem is when you want to cap the framerate below the refresh rate and you're not using VRR
UE framerate cap has terrible frame pacing
I usually find using RTSS cap on top of unreal one produces the best results

[gray parrot]

i've heard this before, cap in game and then cap via RTSS produces better results

[wet kelp]

FSR3 Frame Interpolation RHI vs UE RHI

[gray parrot]

Cyberpunk for example is/was absolutely dogshit when you only cap in RTSS

[wet kelp]

(FSR3 FI has its own RHI)

[pallid lava]

Yup, in game one is smooth but has a metric ton of input lag, and any outside cap produces uneven framepacing
It only works correctly when you use both

[gray parrot]

I stopped using RTSS for now... it was also causing some game crashes cuz of instability with SK combination. But do need another software to monitor Frametimes. This CapFrameX looks promising

[pallid lava]

Not to brag but if you know about this from DF video it's because I told them about this

[pallid lava]

CFX uses RTSS too

[gray parrot]

Ahh ok nvm lol

[wet kelp]

honestly the best way to play this game is probably FSR3 FI ... except for me textures are sometimes flashing with crazy textures

[wet kelp]

is that their discord?

[gray parrot]

looks like it

[pallid lava]

Yes
You need to be a patreon supporter for the invite

[gray parrot]

I need a sugarmama to participate

[pallid lava]

or get it from someone from the team I guess

[wet kelp]

lol wat?

[gray parrot]

I keep using lame Nvidia overlay in the meantime

[gray parrot]

to become a pateron supporter and joining their discord lol

[open zenith]

Any woman up for this horrible job? 😛

[gray parrot]

I had a woman for that horrible job but then she was gone... then one day, I recieved a Letter, calling me to our special place

https://tenor.com/view/creepy-horror-hi-wave-nurse-gif-5606796

[open zenith]

#1270752048408952843

[wet kelp]

okay can someone tell me which is better quality, PF_FloatR11G11B10, or PF_FloatRGBA ?

[hybrid anvil]

The second one isn't a specific format.

But maybe it falls back to 16 bit so it would be better.

Btw, does the 30fps lock work for u? I don't think it does anything for me.

[summer gyro]

what is RHI

[wet kelp]

that's what i'm thinking. FloatRGBA could be ... 10 bit? 16 bit? they don't say. argh UE documentation

[wet kelp]

the mod?

according to chatgpt PF_FloatR11G11B10 is the lower quality. while it does make a lot of mistakes, gpt is probably one of the best ways to aggregate all the info on the poor UE documentation

[wet kelp]

several values aren't being read by the UE ini parser, so i think i will need to make a blueprint mod to polish some things. i'll add removing the 30 FPS cut scene lock to my list of things to do

(if that mod is not working)

[hybrid anvil]

Just check the code

[pallid lava]

https://dev.epicgames.com/community/learning/tutorials/aqV9/render-hardware-interface-rhi

[summer gyro]

ya i saw that but have no idea what it means to use fsr3 rhi vs ue rhi

[tough scarab]

Until Dawn has the same thing when VSM is on, but in that game it's officially supported and game looks shit with it off

[wet kelp]

oh yeah! hahah

[tough scarab]

Nvidia copied what? Since when did Epic invent the concept of using spatiotemporal sampling? I think you are confused here, Nvidia's old denoiser which predates UE5 was NRD and it's a spatio-temporal denoiser done with hand made heuristics.
RR is completely original in the sense of using specially trained AI to handle all denoising in a real time graphics context

NRD is from 2020 or even earlier

[summer gyro]

is RR like combining DLSS and denoising into a single pass

or something like that

[tough scarab]

RR replaces all denoisers used in the game and works alongside DLSS

[summer gyro]

i'm just wondering if its hypothetically possible to use rr without dlss or if their integration is too deep for that

[tough scarab]

I think it's possible

Or maybe not exactly

I guess it needs DLSS to be active, it works with DLAA

Nvidia actually showed the concept of RR all the way back in 2018 with Turing, in their architecture whitepaper

but seems it took them a long time to make it usable

the reason why RR's performance impact depends on the game is due to how many separate denoisers it ends up replacing, games typically have a few different ones for different effects, so the more RT the game has, the bigger the uplift

while in others it can have a perf cost

[wet kelp]

NRD doesn't do ray reconstruction, it's a spatiotemporal reservoir IS/RIS path tracer

okay, it would be more accurate to say Lumen had a ray reconstruction method in production before Nvidia

Nvidia just wins on marketing it as RR

[summer gyro]

wouldnt every real time ray tracing method involve reconstructing rays over time since its so demanding

what makes spatiotemporal reservoir different from ray reconstruction

[wet kelp]

i don't think it's useful to get into who developed the source first (and who borrowed what concepts from whom)... Nvidia has developed a LOT, so has Epic, but they all borrow (steal?) methods from each other, it's difficult to say who invented what

(i am a HUGE fan of Nvidia's R&D btw)

[wet kelp]

i think RR is confusing naming.

afaik (Olek correct me if i'm wrong) RR is doing a similar thing to a spatiotemporal reservoir, but it's AI-trained, so ST + denoising all in one pass (well, probably a convolution neural network but let's call it one pass)

whereas Lumen for example is (afaik) hand tuned heuristic ST reservoir ?

i.e. Epic has sat there and gone "what rays do we need the engine to remember... what makes the most difference"

vs neural network tuned (i.e. reinforcement learning)

i should preface heavily ... this is "what i gather". i've read some of the papers, but certainly not all (there's a LOT 😂)

[tough scarab]

NRD is a denoiser

RR is a denoiser

[wet kelp]

NRD is a collection of denoisers

[tough scarab]

I mean you decided to get into that though? That claim you made about Nvidia stealing from Epic made no sense

[wet kelp]

fair

[tough scarab]

Yes, for different kinds of effects

RR unifies it in one pass

[wet kelp]

this is what i think is confusing... yes NRD is a collection of denoisers, but for that to work "NRD" also includes the importance sampling methods and reservoir. so to say NRD is a denoiser ... well ... afaik NRD is the whole thing, path tracing + IS + reservoir + denoisers

i don't think Nvidia's naming convention is terribly helpful or clear

imo it's more geared to marketing than engineering

[wet kelp]

an AI trained pass?

[tough scarab]

Yes it's a model specifically made for denoising/sampling low ray counts

Do you have more comparisons because I really doubt that tweaked Lumen denoiser is going to look better

I haven't played the game yet

[wet kelp]

i'll do one now

why? you know the technicals of this ... too many temporal samples (without reducing their intensity) just causes blurring ?

i'm sure you also know there is a diminishing return on rays and samples in spatiotemporal contexts

[tough scarab]

Because RR in other games did a lot more than even just unblurring

it reconstructed a lot of detail

[wet kelp]

yeah, i agree. for some reason *it's blurry in this game

[tough scarab]

well I have no idea how this method of forcing it in unofficial games works

how it interacts with the engine or whtever

[wet kelp]

and Lumen reflections can be really nice... BUT ... my experience with Epic is, they work in teams... so one team develops the original Lumen, another does the temporal denoiser ... then the first team improves the reflections... but the other team doesn't reduce the temporal denoiser. i think it's a silos problem

[tough scarab]

I guess there is no guarantee it works ocrrectly

[wet kelp]

no there's also that

... i tried lowering the temporal samples in Robocop which is UE 5.0 and it made things a lot worse. in my ini file i've set it to 256 !

[wet kelp]

hence my point here

[quartz epoch]

https://youtu.be/zKbzaxuU-UU?t=31

[wet kelp]

(i don't assume any of the UE code paths work as intended. you can tune in theory as much as you want but empirical tests is the only real measure)

[quartz epoch]

it's a stark difference in some scenes

[wet kelp]

yes this is something else i haven't considered... i've been looking only at refletctions for RR, but RR does a lot more

i'll do some sscreens now

[tough scarab]

yeah without RR anything that isnt a mirror reflection

will shit the bed

[quartz epoch]

it's a shame that the RR DLL method doesn't work alongside PureDark's DLSS frame generation mod currently

[wet kelp]

oops LowLevelFatalError [File:D:\SilentWorkspace\501T-BL\Engine\Source\Runtime\Engine\Private\Materials\MaterialShared.cpp] [Line: 2540] Failed to find shader map for default material lol

[wet kelp]

what lol

[tough scarab]

are you sure

[wet kelp]

we should probably move this discussion to #1293113206687928322

[quartz epoch]

yeah, if you put it in SILENT HILL 2\SHProto\Plugins\DLSS\Binaries\ThirdParty\Win64 it doesn't work and if you put it in SILENT HILL 2\SHProto\Binaries\Win64\mods\UpscalerBasePlugin\Streamline it works, but frame generation stops working

[hybrid anvil]

What?

[quartz epoch]

the ray reconstruction tweak doesn't play nice with PureDark's DLSS frame generation mod

the former is the default directory location, but the latter is with his mod

[tough scarab]

any idea if this game has spatial sound on PC?

[open zenith]

Throwing the usual around: hate these paywalled mods 😅

[stark trench]

his mods always break lots of stuff for one reason or another

could be the drm but i dont know enough about them

[tough scarab]

RR in this game is done via a mod

the game is fucking freaking out with the frametimes in main menu

massive flicker despite stable high fps

[open zenith]

Because RR and FG are hacked in by these mods, that requires probably quite unsafe and not tested injection of code into the game --> issues

[tough scarab]

lol unsafe injection

[open zenith]

While I dislike the idea of a mod containing DRM, I honestly suspect it not causing issues here

[tough scarab]

you say the most random stuff

[open zenith]

Injection of code into unknown code is by definition unsafe unless you have the source code

[tough scarab]

stop

pls

[stark trench]

i'm mostly just familiar with his starfield and elden ring mods not working if you try to use specialk alongside them

[pallid lava]

RR upscaling algo is by far the best I've seen, even comparing to regular DLSS

It's also the most expensive by far

[open zenith]

Please, if you disagree with someone, you can state that politely and declare why you think someone is wrong. The way you're doing it now comes over as totally non-constructive.

[tough scarab]

is it constructive when you confidently talk about stuff you're clueless about

[open zenith]

Then please provide feedback ast to why my statement was wrong, instead of telling me to stop

[tough scarab]

the RR mod is literally using a function baked into the engine, it's not "injecting code"

and the FG mods work as addons in Reshade just like Renodx and many others

and in this case it's loading signed nvidia libraries

into a game/engine that already has them baked in

[open zenith]

How is it activating that function based in the engine? But the mod then provides the missing FG DLL?

But indeed doesn't sound like injecting code

[tough scarab]

the engine is already using Nvidia Streamline

and has all the inputs/outputs for FG

it's a mystery why it's not even shipped with the game

[open zenith]

But Streamline itself doesn't contain the main FG DLL, the game should if you want FG support, right?

[open zenith]

If the game does not support FG, that is why the FG DLL is not provided

right?

[tough scarab]

I mean the fact that they use stock UE5 which supports FG and everything else as an addon

game should have just come with it

doesn't require extra work from them

[open zenith]

Maybe they didn't want to QA it

[tough scarab]

it's not something you need to QA

that is the whole point of it being an addon

but sure you wanna start arguing again about hypotheticals

[gray parrot]

Trying the new black floor add-on but either way getting too much flicker in HDR

at default HDR settings, with and without the add-on

[open zenith]

🤔

[pallid lava]

Even if you don't need QA you should do QA anyway
There is a ton of games that just YOLO DLSS after post FX not realizing it it can break visuals sometimes
FF16 is a recent example
Or almost any UE game and the bloom flicker

[crystal flame]

do you use SK

[tough scarab]

nope

also tried not running rtss

[crystal flame]

yeah then that's just the game. SK was adding bonus craziness there for me on top of the game's already awful stutters

[tough scarab]

with your fix and Musa's settings I am not hitting 0 nits during the game's black screens

[crystal flame]

the fix only ensures theres no raise from color grading offset

[summer gyro]

If you lower peak your have to lower the min nits

By a little bit

Increasing peak increases contrast

Prob because of the messed up coefficients they used

[crystal flame]

what remains is aces itself, which the game's hdr settings control

it never reaches pure 0 but is close enough

[tough scarab]

bruh it literally hurts my eyes with this flashing

i have never seen anything like this in any game

[crystal flame]

yeah, it's awful

[tough scarab]

i cannot play like this

[crystal flame]

not all areas are that bad, but it's never "good"

[tough scarab]

the frametime shows constant micro stutters

[tough scarab]

can't get dlsstweaks to work with the FG mod

tried using the mod's directory too

[quartz epoch]

what is it you're trying to do with DLSSTweak?

[tough scarab]

get the hud

[quartz epoch]

ah, you can enable it globally and it works

[tough scarab]

so when RR is active it overrides the regular hud

[crystal flame]

yeah i think RR is completely replacing dlss when active

[wet kelp]

yes it does

[wet kelp]

what is the actual purpose of this mod?

[wet kelp]

that's tactless, Olek

we can be polite

[stark trench]

i don't own the game so i can't say for sure but it sounds like a tweak he does to force ray reconstruction on, sorta like his dragon's dogma 2 mod that forced on frame generation before it was officially supported

not much effort went into them so he didn't paywall them; it was his paywalled mods that would usually cause compat issues

[wet kelp]

why would you bother though, it can be forced easily without the mod (is my meaning)

[stark trench]

someone's gotta do it i guess

[wet kelp]

I did it in U+, it's an option

if theirs causes problems (I don't see whu I needs to, it's supported by the engine, so just asking the question)

[stark trench]

oh i misread up above, puredark doesn't have a free rr mod for this game, just a paywalled fg mod

[quartz epoch]

it implements DLSS Frame Generation

but the mod conflicts with Ray Reconstruction, so you either use DLSS FG or RR in this instance

[quartz epoch]

he released the DD2 one for free at least because it was just flicking a switch on and not implementing it

[stark trench]

yeah

[wet kelp]

ahhh got you

[gray parrot]

Blacks and HDR are fine now, stutter without SK is also good with ultra plus but damn the stupid flicker is destroying the immersion

[wet kelp]

what's causing the flicker?

or is that just the game?

[tough scarab]

the game's erratic frametimes

coupled with the dark grey tones

like I really gotta re-iterate, never seen this bad in any game

FG makes it extra bad

since it amplifies the existing stutters

[strong stream]

when i launch with specialK, the game just

crashes

[mortal prism]

i have the opposite problem. when I crash my game specialk just

launches

https://tenor.com/view/8th-floor-long-call-specialist-gif-26079895

[wet kelp]

have you actually tried Ultra+?

[tough scarab]

I was using it

[tough scarab]

Why does the gamma flicker stop when I alt tab the game and have it in the background?

[gray parrot]

Im gonna try and lock the frame rate to 60 in riviatuner and game and see if that helps with the erratic flicker

[tough scarab]

it doesn't

the game refuses to have consistent frametime even if you lock it at a low framerate

[gray parrot]

😞

VRR flicker... my OLEDs arch enemy. Bravia 9 here I come

[crystal flame]

vrr is off then

[tough scarab]

figured

seems like vsync turns off when you tab

loading screen became uncapped

[gray parrot]

How worse could the game run with vrr off?

🤔

[ebon zealot]

disabling vrr and capping at 60 is the way to go with this game

[gray parrot]

I will give it a shot

Vrr flicker is shitshow

[gray parrot]

still flicker with vrr off capped at 60

[pallid lava]

https://youtu.be/B1Et12RgWlQ?si=CvnUJBsilrYgDGSd

TL;DR - it's a clusterfuck

[hybrid anvil]

Very interested in the delta time animation problem. Gotta get fixed in UE.

[pallid lava]

I really wonder how does that even happen in the first place

Did someone pushed the wrong button?

[quartz epoch]

that's a great thumbnail

[hybrid anvil]

All the shit I made to move Unreal engine into modernity in regards to delta time
https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/9228
https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/9240
https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/9239
but obviously it was rejected because who cares about good delta time logic

[zealous pebble]

Jesus christ this is embarrassingly bad

I really wish Bloober would take this more seriously. Every game I've tried by them has been a complete mess in terms of frames

[pallid lava]

but obviously it was rejected because who cares about good delta time logic
https://tenor.com/view/dautuio-cong-family-gif-26667890

[pallid lava]

Did they even justified the rejection?

[hybrid anvil]

"current system works"

"it's worked for 30 years"

[pallid lava]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-gif-24341837

[wet kelp]

the FSR3 FI uses its own RHI which is far more stable and smooth that UE's ... BUT that last hitch I haven't found becomes more pronounced only because it's no longer in the general UE RHI noise

[wet kelp]

I could try changing the swap chain? idk why that would cause it tho

do you guys know why someone would get a shader compile error trying to swap a texture? (I'm assuming unsupported material method?)

[wet kelp]

yeah on the latest v1 I've got draw calls, GT and RHI fairly low but the GPU ms bounces around constantly even standing still? wtf

I suppose I could mess with presentation timing

[wet kelp]

I'm not getting any 🤔

[wet kelp]

can you pin this Pumbo? I might talk to them and see what I can do. our CTO knows them

it wasn't rejected bc of consoles I suppose... just asking

[hybrid anvil]

Knows who? Epic?

[gray parrot]

Are you on an OLED? for me and OLEK and few others its absolute disaster

[wet kelp]

yes some of the people at Epic

[wet kelp]

no i don't have OLED 🤔

[hybrid anvil]

That doesn't help much. I have loads of Epic contacts too, it's a company made by thousands of people and single individuals don't have much influence there, unless you really have the very right specific contact.

[wet kelp]

maybe. company dynamics is something i'm good at

[hybrid anvil]

I already talked to them about these in private channels 🙂

[wet kelp]

what did they say?

[hybrid anvil]

this

Watching the Silent Hill movie again after ~15 years 🤣

[wet kelp]

is it as average as we remember?

[pallid lava]

I remember it was pretty all right

Speaking of which
https://screenrant.com/video/return-to-silent-hill-teaser-trailer/

[hybrid anvil]

it's kinda like: 45% enemies encounters, like a game

little story

but it's very beautiful

[pallid lava]

Yeah Christophe Gans knows how to shot a movie

[wet kelp]

ooo nice

[hybrid anvil]

the director? he hasn't done like, anything in ~20 years

I don't understand

[pallid lava]

He did the Beauty and the Beast movie in 2014 with the French lady from Death Stranding and the French dude from Tekken 8
It was all right
Better the the Disney remake for sure

He's now making the SH2 movie (see above)

He also made Brotherhood of the Wolf which kinda kicks ass

[wet kelp]

Better the the Disney remake for sure
that's not a high bar to clear these days

i remade Bambi from some roadkill on my iPhone 1 and it was better 🤔

[pallid lava]

You're telling me you're not hyped for the Snow White and Seven Garbage Pail Kids?

[summer gyro]

Ah nice

Gal gadot as the evil queen

Fitting casting

[wet kelp]

hahaha

NO

i grew up on Snow White, Pinnochio, all of that stuff, i hate what they're doing

i don't know... i'm known to actually curtsy when someone's nice to me in the supermarket or gives a compliment. i think things were better 20 years ago when you were allowed to have a sense of humor and be courteous to each other.............. but what do i know

[zealous pebble]

Silent Hill film is dope. Perfect mix of creepy serene atmosphere and then that gruesome finale is perfect with the barbed wire and burning. I have nightmares from the part where they lower ||Cybil|| into the fire and the flesh starts peeling.

I hope Gans recaptures the magic with the next one

Budget looks a little cheap tbh but he knows how to make do with that

And yeah I will never watch theses Disney live action remakes, the most obviously pointless cash grabs in film history probably...

[hazy thorn]

is this the show Supernatural?

[hazy thorn]

I tried reading through most of thread but there's so much it's a bit overwhelming.
I'm playing on a LG C9, I followed GamingTech's HDR recommendations. Not sure if it brightens the overall image too much but using Lilium's black floor fix, with default roll off of 10nits, just needed to use a very low amount to reach 0 nits and it makes a massive difference.

But, I noticed that when you get to the Brookhaven Hospital in the Otherworld section of that level, the black point seems way lower than before.

Just wanted to ask if there is some sort of consensus on what settings to use for HDR?

[pallid lava]

Defaults with Ersh fix

[wet kelp]

this game is kind of fantastic

[hazy thorn]

Really? that's it? ^^

[pallid lava]

That's it

[hazy thorn]

I'm guessing just max lum at my tv's max which would be 800 tho right? Not sure why "plasma tv for gaming" said to max that out :S

[crystal flame]

don’t follow his suggestions he doesn’t really know what he’s doing

[hazy thorn]

gotcha, that didn't make much sense to me lol

[gray parrot]

Are you getting ton of flicker in dark scenes on your C9?

[hazy thorn]

I was before I fixed the black floor, I seem to get VRR flickering more when games have higher black raise. Obviously this goes hand in hand with the horrendous frame pacing of this game. But I'm also limiting to 60 FPS with RTSS and that helped a lot.

I'm gonna nuke my reshade install and use renodx now to try it out

[umbral kernel]

So how do you use ersh's addon for this? In game hdr off? On?

[summer gyro]

hdr on

[umbral kernel]

At defaults I'm guessing

[summer gyro]

whatever settings you want

[umbral kernel]

And what exactly does it address 😛

[summer gyro]

the game has a raised black floor cause they give it a foggy look by straight up adding to the rgb values

which makes it so that it can't go to 0 black

completely ruins shadowed areas

the mod removes that and gives you options to offset it so it doesn't darken the image a bunch

[hazy thorn]

Is it really that much different than, leaving HDR settings at default (except for max lum) and using Lilium's black floor fix though?

[summer gyro]

yes

lilium's black floor fix is for gamma mismatch

this is revealing more detail

the game doesn't seem to have gamma mismatch afaik

[hazy thorn]

Hmm, so I wonder what the benefit would be of me trying it out in comparison to what I did, gonna try it anyway

[umbral kernel]

Yeah I noticed that

[ebon zealot]

the advantage is that without the fix different areas require a different offset in liliuim's. so if you want 0 nit blacks you're going to be manually adjusting it per area. with Ersh's fix you can set 1 value in lilium's and it's good for the entire game.

[hazy thorn]

Not easy to tell from a photo but yes, wow, much much better!! Though it doesn’t seem to be reaching 0nits, analysis shows 0.000637 but it looks like it is so awesome there!!!!

Now onto trying Sammi’s mod with this.

Is there a way to toggle addons on reshade or is it injection based? Meaning only with restarts

[crystal flame]

you shouldnt really need lilium's black floor fix with this

[crystal flame]

yeah. it won't reach 0 as that's how unreal's aces works. but for all realistic purposes it is 0, your display very likely crushes that to 0 anyway

as for toggling off, not exactly, but the addon adds a tiny settings menu with a selector, you can select vanilla to effectively turn it off

[ebon zealot]

i have a perfectly calibrated g2 and it definitely doesn't crush. i see elevated blacks with only your fix which shows the typical OLED near black vertical streaks. looks real bad. tiny offset in lilium's fixes it.

[crystal flame]

alrighty

[hazy thorn]

I’m not seeing this at all

[ebon zealot]

it's going to depend on your display and how well calibrated it is. specifically how well it comes out of blacks. most displays, especially OLEDs, crush near black out of the box

[hazy thorn]

Gotcha, thank you! Should I change the max lums to 800n as it’s my tvs max or leave it at default! Think it defaults to 1000n ingame

[hazy thorn]

Makes sense

Guessing you’re also using HGIG right?

[ebon zealot]

yeah

[crystal flame]

usually you should set your peak there, so 800. though it probably won't really matter too much

[summer gyro]

I’m in the apartments and the game goes past my user set peak anyway

[hazy thorn]

Is this type of banding normal / fixable?

Pushed exposure to expose the issue further. It’s very noticeable irl

[pallid lava]

Do you have film grain enabled in game?

[hazy thorn]

There isn’t an option for it is there? Im using RT + Epic preset + Sammi’s mod 1.0.2 + renodx

[tough scarab]

https://x.com/ChinuaFFXIV/status/1845188078832357407

Chinua Lkhagvasuren (@ChinuaFFXIV) on X

@Dachsjaeger The visual problems mentioned at around 7:15 in the video gets really bad at a later point in the game.

Twitter · Oct 12, 2024, 7:41 PM

lol what is that

[hybrid anvil]

i'll seen that.

in game

[open zenith]

Probably they did optimizations to not use Hardware/Software RT in certain places when at a certain distance. At least my guess. But according to Alex, what is happening here, is that the RT is rapidly turning off and back on again.

[hybrid anvil]

it's lumen or RR

it doesn't do a full update every frame

it blends over time to the target value

so if there's a flash, it persists

and DLSS SR adds further lag due to TAA blending previous colors in

[open zenith]

I suspect myself that this optimization is set incorrectly at certain locations, thus causing this issue, but could be wrong

[open zenith]

Lumen, RR isn't natively in the game

[open zenith]

I think it is the change in Lumen that is causing the flash, not the other way around

[zealous pebble]

I've seemed weird issues with light flashing in the apartments, but not nearly that bad

I also had my fps drop to like 15 from 30 in the cutscene with Eddie in the theater, anyone else have that happen? Only when it showed his face and he started talking. If it cut to James it was 30 again

[tough scarab]

https://www.nexusmods.com/silenthill2/mods/118

seems it needs additional fix when using flashlight

light comes back

[summer gyro]

Oof

[pallid lava]

You're right
Use the film grain shader from the Lilium's shader pack

[tough scarab]

https://www.nexusmods.com/silenthill2/mods/105?tab=description

[hazy thorn]

To fix the banding? Film grain? Hm thats curious. i like film grain anyway so

[pallid lava]

Yes, film grain is essentially dithering

It helps to smooth out color gradients

[hazy thorn]

That helped tremendously, starts with it ON. Toggled off looks terrible in comparison. Thanks!!!!

Nevermind, cant be seen in SDR

[pallid lava]

Glad to be of help

[hazy thorn]

Just one last thing. The amount of grain does push all sides of the spectrum right? So it can crush blacks and even raise the luminosity? It feels like it if I overdo it

[hybrid anvil]

anybody else noticed moire patterns shifting on some carpets (apartments)

with DLSS 3.7 (or whatever is latest)

[rigid jackal]

yup, also saw it on fences

[hybrid anvil]

that's when you use too high resolution mip maps

[hazy thorn]

Yep

[hazy thorn]

Btw yes. With Sammi’s v1.0.2 and renodx, Im at the part where ||you meet Angela at the statue in the park, after that it’s a very long road to the museum, no enemies, just very dark night and fog|| and running straight on that road, there’s vrr flickering and/or micro stutters every X meters of running…

[tough scarab]

film grain will raise blacks

[wet kelp]

from feedback I might have somehow reverted something in 1.0.2 (causing stutters)

[wet kelp]

that can change a lot with DLSS preset

[wet kelp]

yay finally! ❤️

[gray parrot]

So its broken currently? Cuz you use flashlight alot

[pallid lava]

I don't belive film grain changes the brightness

[tough scarab]

Using the DLSS FG mod has a strange bug

It for some reason prevents the game from fully using the GPU

it's always underutilized by around 10%

like in main menu, no FG mod active I get 80 fps with 100% gpu usage

with FG mod active and disabled from menu, I have 70 fps with 90% usage

and it stays that way when enabling FG

so the uplift ends up smaller than it should be

[summer gyro]

https://www.nexusmods.com/silenthill2/mods/112

nice

[tough scarab]

seems it's gonna be 60 fps fixed refresh for this game

[quartz epoch]

nice, I was hoping this would show up

[hazy thorn]

I had to do the same, it needed just a tiny notch like 0.0012 and now it looks right imo.

With BF fix on and off
https://youtu.be/kzE_pyFSvXc?si=zAjqTjr6KHMX-ZK9

now the problem with banding, it looks like luma film grain raises the black floor no matter what, it does alleviate the banding but at the cost of basically undoing the bf fix pulls hair

[glossy pivot]

So what is the stuff I need to play this game correctly?

Ultra +

RR

ect

[summer gyro]

here's the ultra+ thread
https://discord.com/channels/1161035767917850784/1293113206687928322

its on nexus

ultra+ and ersh's black floor fix

[glossy pivot]

Where is the black floor fix

[summer gyro]

#💬chat message
the game stutters even more with SK so you'll need to use this instead to fix the exclusive fullscreen nonsense:
#1291021198628618353 message

[hybrid anvil]

at this point

i'd wait for patch 1

[hybrid anvil]

pinned

[quartz epoch]

I did the -UseFixedTimeStep launch command that Alex mentioned in his DF video and externally capped the game to 30FPS and if you're able to stomach playing at 30FPS, it's crazy how much smoother it feels

feels silly capping to 30FPS with a 7950X3D and 4090, but here we are

[hybrid anvil]

you could do 45

[quartz epoch]

is that not going to make the game logic run faster?

[hybrid anvil]

you'd need to find a way to lock it to 45

from within UE

if u unlock the console u can

[quartz epoch]

they've uploaded an optional file fixing that

[zealous pebble]

Bloober fans still waiting for The Medium patches like

[zealous pebble]

Maybe in 20 years we can play this without stutter at 60fps

I'm tempted to use that "fix" but 30fps on an OLED is so, so choppy looking. Maybe I'll try BFI...

Or Lossless Scaling FG, but that isn't the greatest option either

If they add actual FG support in the first patch maybe we can do it with that

[hazy thorn]

yeah 30 FPS on an OLED looks disgusting. Absolutely unplayable. Somehow, on consoles (only own an XSX that I never use) I remember 30 FPS being somewhat more tolerable than on PC

[tough scarab]

you just need motion blur

[hazy thorn]

[tough scarab]

I did play some PS5 games on OLED at 30 fps and it was fine

[hazy thorn]

That's what I mean, on consoles it's tolerable, on PC not so much for some reason.

[tough scarab]

on PC it's also affected by how you do it, for some reason it was smoother if I set the screen to 30 hz

[hazy thorn]

Does one need to fix the RR to 60hz?

right

[tough scarab]

if I was capping at 30 with 120hz or something it stuttered visually

[hazy thorn]

yeah

[tough scarab]

so maybe try that

[hazy thorn]

it kind of hurts my soul even contemplating doing that

[tough scarab]

I mean I will just wait for patches or something, but you could test that out of curiosity

[hazy thorn]

So far there's been literally 0 comms from them which is incredibly disappointing. At least I remember Kyle (?) from Remedy was in constant comms about some issues with AW2 on release. This radio silence doesn't bode well tbh.

Just wanted to play the game like we used to years ago :S

[tough scarab]

you could do that

and do FG from 45 to 90

that would be pretty good

[hazy thorn]

that would mean using FSR tho?

[gray parrot]

@summer gyro Im gonna try these tonight, looks like the pumbo shaders is needed also? And curious about where to land for a 800 nits display and output white point.

[summer gyro]

In pumbo the output white point default to 80. Lowering it will darken the entire image. So lower it to a comfortable level. I found 37 to be a comfortable number. If you choose 37 then have to multiply your peak by 80/37 so 80/37 * 800 = 1729

[hazy thorn]

is there an actual advantage to use pumbo's AutoHDR in this case?

[summer gyro]

Nah

I just use it to scale the paper white

[hazy thorn]

Ah I see, so changing the director's intent :p

[summer gyro]

There was no intent

[hazy thorn]

haha

[summer gyro]

They literally just slapped on the UE defaults in HDR

Hence the hdr looking entirely different from sdr

[gray parrot]

Thank you Musa!!!

[neat kestrel]

So I need to adjust the value in pumbo's shader based on my peak?

I'm trying to target 600 peak

Not sure if i misunderstood

[gray parrot]

1297 for 600 if you did 37

[neat kestrel]

but the game would still hit 600 peak with that config?

[gray parrot]

no

[neat kestrel]

i'm confused

🙂

[gray parrot]

game doesnt hit peak brightness of the tv ever, HDR not designed that way here

[neat kestrel]

how bright does it hit

[gray parrot]

at default settings looking at bright foggy sky was like 200 or so nits in the begginning, look at Musa's screenshots.

[neat kestrel]

would any other settings besides peak in the above image need to be changed based off my 600 peak monitor

[gray parrot]

its not really designed with HDR in mind

IDK, im still trying to figure it out

its whatever goes in this game, whatever looks good to you

[neat kestrel]

alright

wild west I guess 🙂

[gray parrot]

as is with most UE games it seems

[neat kestrel]

i'm gonna hold off on buying it tho until some shit improves. I can't in good faith pay $70 for a stuttery game ha

[gray parrot]

bloober is popular enough to feel the pressure to drop some patches soon hopefully

[neat kestrel]

I just hate bloober cause of their Observer next gen update costing full price for a half ass RT implementation and cool blue LUT

lol

[gray parrot]

they just get a cut, Konami is the real parent

[neat kestrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4BTmCDZOKU

[summer gyro]

The game goes over peak at times

Is often under as well

I would just set it to your monitor peak and leave it at that

[hazy thorn]

1:53

check the fan

the original looks much better lol

[gray parrot]

This game looks freaky but man they killed a lot of the atmosphere of the original

[neat kestrel]

Yea they improved lighting/textures but made it really blue and bright

full price 🙂

even if you paid them for the original game

[neat kestrel]

"next gen update"

But yea I kind of hate bloober for that lol

[gray parrot]

art/direction wise they kept Silent Hill 2 in pretty good shape compared to the original

most likely Konami had to hold their hands in that regard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Et12RgWlQ

[neat kestrel]

Yea, I think I'm just salty about Observer

i should get over it ha

[neat kestrel]

yea i watched that video last night

[hazy thorn]

from all I've read it was actually bloober

the og team silent wanted to change everything etc

[gray parrot]

oh wow

well kudos to them then

[hazy thorn]

theres a documentary on YT as well

they speak of a lot of tropes, they understood the game well

[neat kestrel]

hopefully they'll patch it up but i mean.....it could take 1+ years

look how long it took survivor and it's still not fixed completely

[hazy thorn]

one of the main writers I think? or lead designer

it's his fav game of all time

so I guess it makes sense

I find it a bit shocking

that there isn't any comms right now

or a patch to fix some pertinent issues

nothing

[gray parrot]

Anybody try this from the DF video?

or is it already included in the https://discord.com/channels/1161035767917850784/1293113206687928322 mod perhaps?

[neat kestrel]

I assumed ultra plus did this but idk

[gray parrot]

@wet kelp can you shed some light onto this?

[hazy thorn]

I think that was added at one point, not sure if it was removed, I remember reading something about it in the posts on nexus

it did make car windows uber reflective

not sure if it was "better"

[zealous pebble]

I can't. Motion blur can't save it. Even my gf who doesn't care about this stuff says "why is this so choppy?"

[hazy thorn]

if it doesnt pass the gf test then it's fubar'd

[zealous pebble]

Literally

Although I think if I didn't always use 60fps modes or higher she might not have gotten frameratepilled

[hazy thorn]

like on Alan Wake 2, there was an issue with FG, where the jump scare videos that played, stuttered for half a second before and after they played. It was so immersion breaking for me I was so pissed off before it was patched. My gf didn't even notice until I pointed out 😄

[hazy thorn]

oh that's for sure lool frameratepilled loool

[zealous pebble]

Hahaha

On a serious note note

That 30fps tick thing Alex showed... Do you guys think it'd be possible to bump that to 40fps?

That would be the sweet spot

I can deal with 40

[gray parrot]

I dont think so, he showed if you venture off even slightly from 30 FPS, the speed goes berserk, at least thats how I understood it. seems to be a hard lock or he'd have tried it himself. Otherwise 45 FPS is very achievable with balanced DLSS

[zealous pebble]

Didn't he say you can mod the config files to go higher? I'll have to rewatch

[summer gyro]

I noticed the stutter but I never realized it was from FG

[hazy thorn]

yeah it was, it was then patched

[hazy thorn]

#1291021198628618353 message

[ebon zealot]

using vsync to cap to 30 or 60 fps + a matching in-game fps cap will accomplish the same thing as the -UseFixedTimeStep param. in that it will eliminate the animation stutters caused by delta time.

you'll still have traversal stutters if they exceed your 16.6ms/33.3ms frametime limit, but if you have a high end setup the game will be extremely smooth even at 60 fps. not perfect, but way better than not using an in-game fps cap.

this was brought up by someone on ResetEra and i tested it extensively. i tested the run from the lookout to the graveyard. with gsync disabled, 60 fps set via 1/2 refresh vsync, and a 60 fps in-game fps cap i have 0 stutters in that run. with the in-game cap set to unlimited there are 4-5. it's 100% repeatable and the stutters happen in the same place each time (the same place as the Digital Foundry video).

also, people have said it here before but i didn't believe them... if you're using special k i recommend trying without it. it was 100% adding stutter to my game.

[zealous pebble]

I have not turned on special K because yes I heard about that

[ebon zealot]

i didn't test it, but it might be possible to accomplish the same thing with 40 fps if you set your vsync to 40 fps (so like 1/3 refresh on a 120hz display) and an fps cap of 40 via an ini edit (maybe t.MaxFPS=40?). if you're still getting a lot of traversal stutter at 60 this might be worth trying.

[zealous pebble]

I am yeah

You mean set vsync with Nvidia control panel?

[ebon zealot]

yeah

[zealous pebble]

I'll give it a shot

[ebon zealot]

i didn't test with the in-game vsync because i wanted to use 1/2 refresh vsync which you obviously can't do in-game

[rigid jackal]

the 1/2, 1/3 and 1/4 vsync options are only available in nv profile inspector, not control panel, and somehow get ignored on my end

[zealous pebble]

I see adaptive half refresh

[ebon zealot]

that's what you want

if you're on a 120hz monitor

[zealous pebble]

I am

And that's capping it to 60 you're saying right

But if my CPU isn't good enough like DF's video showed won't it still stutter? I have a 12600k

He couldn't eliminate stutter without putting it to 30

But hey I'll test it out just to see

[ebon zealot]

he wan't using the in-game fps cap to match the vsync. that's the trick

[zealous pebble]

Ahh

[ebon zealot]

it accomplishes the same thing but at any fps

(fixing the delta time stutter)

[zealous pebble]

Ok so cap to 60 in game

Half refresh in Nvidia control panel

That's it?

[ebon zealot]

yeah

vsync off in-game

shouldn't matter though

[zealous pebble]

Ok

Only problem is I'm getting like 40 fps in apartments

[ebon zealot]

ah lol

well

that's a different problem

[zealous pebble]

I could try to down scale res

Or just turn off RT... But it's so beautiful lol

Anyway I'll try this then test run around the streets, I get 60 in the streets near the start

If that has good results I'll try to get 40fps working...

[ebon zealot]

it's super easy to test with a new game. just running down the stairs from the overlook. like in the DF vid at 18:20 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Et12RgWlQ&t=1100s)

[zealous pebble]

Will do

It looks good but honestly I'm totally blind to this stuff unless it's slowed down so I'm testing with my original settings again to see if I can even tell the animations look broken

[neat kestrel]

According to Digital Foundry there's really little you can do to fix these framepacing problems

The devs have to fix it

[zealous pebble]

Besides brute force with an insane CPU and locking it to unacceptably low framerates, yep

[gray parrot]

yup, not a realistic option

[zealous pebble]

Honestly using the half refresh thing didn't seem to do much different from just using the in game cap alone.

When I set fps to unlimited in game, it absolutely is noticeable right away though

[zealous pebble]

What did you mean by it gets ignored

[tough scarab]

you can't bruteforce it in any way

[zealous pebble]

You disagree with Alex saying a 30fps cap can hide the stutters if they never exceed 33ms?

[tough scarab]

You said bruteforcing and locking were the only options

you don't need an insane cpu to lock it at 30 fps

and this is solely for the deltatime animation issue

all the other "real" stutters are there for everyone

[zealous pebble]

Depends on your settings I suppose. I'm talking about modern resolutions and at least ps5 equivalent settings

[ebon zealot]

Bummer. Yeah your mileage will probably vary based on hardware. I'd still try 40 fps.

[zealous pebble]

Not so much bummer, I'm saying I don't notice it with the in game cap. So it's fine for me

Compared to DF's video or running the game uncapped

It looked ok

The half refresh probably makes it even less noticeable?

[ebon zealot]

In my experience the "real stutters" are few and far between. When I eliminate the delta time issues I get rid of like 80% of the game's stutter.

Just on the run to town there are 2 stutters. Without the delta fix there are a ton. I haven't counted but it's probably 15+.

That's at 60 fps

[zealous pebble]

That's definitely not my experience. I'm staring at the fps counter and it's every 15 seconds when sprinting between areas

Regardless of the tic fix and stuff

[ebon zealot]

Yeah I'm sure my 7800x3d and 4090 are brute forcing the smaller traversal stutter.

It's just the big ones that come through

[zealous pebble]

Ah yeah

[gray parrot]

how are you eliminating the delta time issue again?

[rigid jackal]

I meant that if I choose 1/3 vsync with a fixed 120hz refresh rate screen, the game doesn't get capped to 40fps, which it should with a 1/3 vsync

so the setting apparently gets ignored

I don't have any adaptive half refresh option in nv control panel

[zealous pebble]

Oh weird

I'm about to try

T.maxfps 40 didn't work in the engine ini. Anyone else have any ideas how to change in game cap?

[tough scarab]

Already was stated above you need to use UUU or something to bypass restriction

[zealous pebble]

Oh ok

Thanks

[ebon zealot]

Vsync to 60 fps in the nvcp + 60 fps cap in-game accomplishes the same thing as the launch param. At least for me.

[rigid jackal]

you might need to put it under renderersettings instead of systemsettings

[zealous pebble]

Works on my machine(tm)

[zealous pebble]

I'll try that next, thanks

[rigid jackal]

or you can try this in the gameusersettings ini

[rigid jackal]

wait what

[zealous pebble]

Yep lol

40fps rn