i thought it looked kinda like a piss filter
#▫️Final Fantasy XVI
ocean ether
mystic atlas
D65 is a blue white point (just for reference)
unique swift
Check my screens
spring pelican
Oh I thought maybe it was like srgb content for srgb screens vs 2.2 content for 2.2 screens type of thing
mystic atlas
Check my screens
stop it
wispy patrol
Check my screens
i did, i feel like shortfuses show more impact
unique swift
i did, i feel like shortfuses show more impact
He posted screenshots for 16?
I only saw the ones for 7 Reamke
And for those, I also believe D65 looked better
wispy patrol
someone link pls i cant type
wispy patrol
yes these
spring pelican
sorry about the messed up orders
unique swift
It's almost like the game uses a different color grading for the different regions
unique swift
Here D93 looks more white
unique swift
But here D65 looks more white
wispy patrol
But here D65 looks more white
disagree
spring pelican
Why doesn't d65 content for d65 screens vs. same for d93 look the same? Just because by definition d93 is more blue? So d93 content is created with the intent of looking more blue?
ocean ether
d93 looks closer to white to me but still slightly blue, if I let my eyes adjust i'm sure it would look very white in all the screenshots
wispy patrol
Why doesn't d65 content for d65 screens vs. same for d93 look the same? Just bec...
it should look the same, that's the idea
spring pelican
it should look the same, that's the idea
oh why did lilium say no above
unique swift
d93 looks closer to white to me but still slightly blue, if I let my eyes adjust...
I mean all content will look white in D93 if you let your eyes adjust
That's how the brain works
wispy patrol
oh why did lilium say no above
maybe i don't understand something then
ocean ether
what they're using internally (srgb) is d65 and idk about the tvs native white point and how that affects it
spring pelican
like if you had one TV with d65 for d65, and another with d93 for d93 next to it, shouldn't they look the same?
or is this an intentional mismatch situation
like srgb for 2.2
ocean ether
ideally if you have identical images with 2 different formats encoded and decoded in the respective formats they should end up the same
spring pelican
so we think maybe they did it in d65 srgb but had their screens on d93? Is that the theory?
ocean ether
well we know for a fact the code is internally in d65 cause thats the srgb white point, the question is what white point they decoded it with
spring pelican
mmk
unique swift
like if you had one TV with d65 for d65, and another with d93 for d93 next to it...
I mean, that the thing, right? If the content is meant for D93, then white should be white in D93, not blue-ish
spring pelican
so lilium is saying that either d65 or d93, if you get used to it, white looks white?
so quick comparisons suck?
ocean ether
I mean all content will look white in D93 if you let your eyes adjust
ya but for me it looks already closer to pure white in my dark room using and having my eyes adjusted to a d65 tv
are those 3 images in different regions
cause d93 looks closer to neutral to me in all of them
unique swift
so lilium is saying that either d65 or d93, if you get used to it, white looks w...
Yes, but this is true for every content, no matter where it was made
This is why normies call D65 piss filter when they switch from vivid mode
Even if content is done in D65
ocean ether
we are all normies compared to lilium
unique swift
I just don't understand the logic here
gloomy sky
D93 does look more white in this one but i have a very hard time believing that's what the scene was intended to look like
unique swift
made in Japan = D93 is not an iron clad rule, hasn't been for decades
gloomy sky
Same with the desert
unique swift
Especially for the content that's made for the outside markets
mystic atlas
maybe i don't understand something then
yes, the illuminant / white point makes thing "appear more blue or red" depending on the CCT (corelated colour temp) of the white point
BUT your eyes adapt to it over time so all the different whites even though they are technically more blue or red will appear the same to our eyes/brain
unique swift
Same with the desert
gloomy sky
Yeah square is pretty staunchly focused on markets outside of Japan for ff16
ocean ether
mystic atlas
Same with the desert
but what if I told you that after getting used to D93 for some time it would not look that blue?
ocean ether
@mystic atlas do you remember what doc this is from
mystic atlas
BT.2035 probably
gloomy sky
but what if I told you that after getting used to D93 for some time it would not...
I would believe you, I've watched TVs on crazy cold color temp before
unique swift
Like, for the anime that's made for Japan first and foremost, sure, I can believe it
But FF16 is an English first game, I really doubt they would go through all the trouble with English script and VA/performance capture, only to just author the game with the wrong white point for wester audience
ocean ether
unique swift
I would believe you, I've watched TVs on crazy cold color temp before
All of us did
mystic atlas
Like, for the anime that's made for Japan first and foremost, sure, I can believ...
game devs are clueless when it comes to colour management
unique swift
All of them? No exceptions? Ever?
wispy patrol
Like, for the anime that's made for Japan first and foremost, sure, I can believ...
remember all the gamma mismatches
it's a similar situation
spring pelican
yes, the illuminant / white point makes thing "appear more blue or red" dependin...
so 2 tvs next to it each other, matching d65 for d65, and d93 for 93, would or wouldn't look the same
wispy patrol
it's hard to believe and yet it happens constantly
mystic atlas
All of them? No exceptions? Ever?
they would probably mention it in their presenations but I don't think they did
mystic atlas
so 2 tvs next to it each other, matching d65 for d65, and d93 for 93, would or w...
wouldn't
yeah uh specifically for this production we are all gonna switch our screens to D65
spring pelican
wouldn't
because we are adapted to d65, so it would take time to adjust to d93, but the end result is it looks the same, just takes a bit of time?
unique swift
remember all the gamma mismatches
Gamma mismatch affect maybe like 50% of the games I've tested
Even if most of them are still sRGB internally, at least they have the decency to cover it up somehow
Now 50% is still high, but it's not like everyone does it
ocean ether
gotta be more than 50
unique swift
And FF7 Remake is one of the few games that are actually 2.2 internally IIRC
unique swift
gotta be more than 50
I've counted
It's around that
ocean ether
shortfuse says its srgb internally but they specifically correct for 2.2 because they actually know what they're doing
unique swift
shortfuse says its srgb internally but they specifically correct for 2.2 because...
Yeah
Maybe, Just maybe
Squre Enix knows what they are doing?
In this situation at least?
ocean ether
from ff7r intergrade
// Encode UI as SRGB
r3.xyz = cmp(r1.xyz < float3(0.00313080009, 0.00313080009, 0.00313080009));
r4.xyz = float3(12.9200001, 12.9200001, 12.9200001) * r1.xyz;
r1.xyz = log2(r1.xyz);
r1.xyz = float3(0.416666657, 0.416666657, 0.416666657) * r1.xyz;
r1.xyz = exp2(r1.xyz);
r1.xyz = r1.xyz * float3(1.05499995, 1.05499995, 1.05499995) + float3(-0.0549999997, -0.0549999997, -0.0549999997);
r1.xyz = r3.xyz ? r4.xyz : r1.xyz;
// Decode UI as 2.2
r1.xyz = log2(r1.xyz);
r1.xyz = float3(2.20000005, 2.20000005, 2.20000005) * r1.xyz;
r1.xyz = exp2(r1.xyz);
Why they would feel obligated to mention that they are following the standard that literally the whole rest of the world does?
mystic atlas
@spring pelican @wispy patrol
let's make it more clear:
if you watch content authored for D65 on a D65 screen next to a screen where content authored for D93 plays on a D93 screen, depending on what your eyes are currently adapted to D65 will appear more red or neutral and D93 will appear neutral or more blue
unique swift
from ff7r intergrade
```cpp
// Encode UI as SRGB
r3.xyz = cmp(r1.xyz < f...
That's for the UI only though
IIRC the game itself is 2.2
mystic atlas
Why they would feel obligated to mention that they are following the standard th...
sounds like a big point that the whole production had to adjust their screens
unique swift
sounds like a big point that the whole production had to adjust their screens
They also said the game was authored in HDR
I doubt the whole production had HDR screens
wispy patrol
Why they would feel obligated to mention that they are following the standard th...
shouldnt they tell all the japanese players that they should switch they screens to d65 for this game then?
mystic atlas
They also said the game was authored in HDR
I doubt the whole production had HDR...
ok that is a good point
ocean ether
They also said the game was authored in HDR
I doubt the whole production had HDR...
by authored in hdr what does that mean
that they did color grading at 10k nits
with pq luts?
is this one presentation you guys are all referring to
unique swift
shouldnt they tell all the japanese players that they should switch they screens...
99% of the people won't see it in D65, so they probably don't give a fuck, just like everyone else
I think SF posted that average JP screen is like 7k to 8k color temp
ocean ether
mystic atlas
I think SF posted that average JP screen is like 7k to 8k color temp
yeah because the actual colour temp of D93 is not 9300k
the CCT is 9300k
unique swift
Which is about the same as the rest of the world
unique swift
yeah because the actual colour temp of D93 is not 9300k
the CCT is 9300k
My point is that Joe Shmoe doesn't care about color temp and is using whatever vivid mode defaults to
No matter where they live
wispy patrol
is this one presentation you guys are all referring to
ocean ether
where is that from
wispy patrol
idk 
unique swift
I find a hard time believing that people in Japan are rigorously following broadcast standards
mystic atlas
I find a hard time believing that people in Japan are rigorously following broad...
they aren't but their screens default to it
unique swift
Just like the screens in the west default to D65?
mystic atlas
My point is that Joe Shmoe doesn't care about color temp and is using whatever v...
but you and I care 🙂
mystic atlas
Just like the screens in the west default to D65?
yep
unique swift
Except most of them aren't even close to that out of the box
Especially in the vivid mode, or whatever's default
Not the calibrated one, for sure
mystic atlas
LG OLEDs native white point is also ~D93
I know LG is a South Korean company but South Korean colour standards are mostly copy and paste from Japanese ones
ocean ether
can converting to d93 be done after scaling paper white, or does that change it, so it needs to be done before
like voosh's shader doesn't have a paper white slider
ocean ether
very important question cause those images were taken with a shader with no paper white parameter
mystic atlas
I think it does not matter if before or after
yeah it does not
it's matrix math only which is linearly related
ocean ether
I think it does not matter if before or after
would the d93 conversion also be done after srgb -> 2.2 gamma correction
ocean ether
shortfuse has it after gamma
mystic atlas
would the d93 conversion also be done after srgb -> 2.2 gamma correction
before I would say
ocean ether
before I would say
@next forge
mystic atlas
before is correct I think but the correction applies differently then it would on a d93 screen
ocean ether
mystic atlas
you probably need to move into the D93 bt709 primaries and do it there
next forge
That wouldn't cover ui
mystic atlas
you probably need to move into the D93 bt709 primaries and do it there
I can craft this 🙂
mellow void
where is that from
One of the many live streams before the game came out
mellow void
I find a hard time believing that people in Japan are rigorously following broad...
I have a hard time believing Sony allows this for their PS5 releases
Any studio relying on the west for sales would likely know better especially AAA and especially a game with HDR in mind.
And unless someone proves filmmaker mode on Japanese TVs is different I will doubt this is broadly the case.
ocean ether
no way sony is checking for what white point they used when developing their game
anything point people knowing better is ultimately null because from every game's code I've looked at no one seems to know shit
mystic atlas
And unless someone proves filmmaker mode on Japanese TVs is different I will dou...
film maker mode is a Hollywood invention
so of course it's going to be D65 based
movie mode or cinema mode in SDR is where I would look
or maybe even standard
isf expert is also western stuff
mellow void
Then presumably at this point any HDR content especially is d65.
It's only SDR stuff you would be worried about
Not to mention doly vision and such
mystic atlas
currently HDR is mostly just HDR specs thrown at SDR source in games
we see this everywhere
mellow void
And even SDR stuff might just be broadcast stuff
Sure but ffxvi has a good implementation
mystic atlas
I am aware
I am torn on FFXVI
it was probably a very mixed production with D65 and D93 screens
mellow void
I presume most artists color calibrate their displays and don't go with defaults you get worried about that at some point.
They color calibrate as much as reasonable
mystic atlas
I presume most artists color calibrate their displays and don't go with defaults...
unless someone really cares at a studio, the answer is no
from my limited sources
mellow void
unless someone really cares at a studio, the answer is no
I disagree even the lowest tier Twitter artist at some point has a crisis of color calibration
Like it's a very reliable thing people encounter at some point especially sharing work online, 3D artists especially care.
I know people who go absolutely overboard with it and don't even work in a major production
Even if the programmers and designers don't care, at minimum the artists do
mystic atlas
my feeling (and I can't prove this, though looking at the horrible conditions people work in, the crunch, the mismanagement, etc; I feel quite certain) is that there is no time to really care. if a single artist cares enough to push this through, they will hit a lot of walls, unless they know the right people.
mellow void
I think it's so ubiquitous that artists just do it, especially at square which probably has the most art budget of like any team. I've never met a artist who cares about color calibration less than I do.
The whole team would naturally have the pull to do it
ocean ether
calibrate to d65 or to d93
mellow void
I would say if people make a cocious decision to color calibrate they do so considering their audience and square and sony are very western focused. What ever decision it is was made a while ago not just FFXVI I imagine.
But they're deffinitely not just going "ah yeah vivid looks good" then moving on lol
Cause like imagine submitting work to your art director or some shit and they nit pick some color that looks right on your screen but not theirs
No they want to avoid that headache
Whatever it is the whole studio follows it
One way to check is maybe see what apple displays do in japan 🤔
I believe most people assume apple displays are color calibrated out the box.
Like if a Pro Display XDR is different in japan than in the US
that would have a measurable impact imo
I would assume a certain percentage of PC's in square are apple
red glacier
Maybe its supposed to be yellow because theyre tryna emulate a western movie xd
mental lake
Played 2 hours on D93 and it "feels" right
As Lilium said, you just get used to it pretty quickly
Hell I even thought some scenes were too yellow
next forge
to complicate matters, the hdr option in the japanese article only had D65 and D82 options. and the switch, i've heard is between d65 and d93. it might end up being a personal thing. i dont think it changes too much of the vision (or maybe they even understood people be between both).
unique swift
As Lilium said, you just get used to it pretty quickly
You get used to the different color temperatures no matter the content
If someone likes cooler color temperature, that's fine, but the game was meant to be viewed in a specific one, and I've yet to seen any compelling evidence it's supposed to be D93
Human brain usually drifts towards a cooler color temp, this has been studied and proven many times, this is why most displays are set up like they are out of the box
Which is why "it looks nicer to me / you will get used to it after a while" is not really a convincing argument to me
I would even argue that if the content is really meant to be viewed in D93 you would not need to adjust, because it should instantly look correct vs D65
wispy patrol
I would even argue that if the content is really meant to be viewed in D93 you w...
that is my experience, it instantly looks more correct
unique swift
Do you tried with any night scenes / interiors?
wispy patrol
i've played through the entire second dlc and all the sidequests i had left
unique swift
Well, I've played through the demo in D93, and I can't say I agree
It just makes daylight scenes look colder and nighttime blueish
dapper cape
Well, I've played through the demo in D93, and I can't say I agree
I was curious and I played through the demo, and I agree, D93 makes everything blueish
So idk, I definitely like D65 more. skin looks too pale with D93 imo
this is D65
and it looks correct imo
dapper cape
i've played through the entire second dlc and all the sidequests i had left
end game overworld is pink tinted, comparing D65 and D95 is very hard when everything looks weird and wrong
wispy patrol
end game overworld is pink tinted, comparing D65 and D95 is very hard when every...
the second dlc does not have the tint
next forge
dlc team may not be original team as well
dapper cape
ah the leviathan one yea true
wispy patrol
currently ending (?) in d93
dapper cape
btw the pink tint is horrible imo:
wispy patrol
btw the pink tint is horrible imo:
yeah awful decision lol
dapper cape
I though that HDR was broken or something lol
unique swift
I belive there's a mod that removes it
mellow void
lol
dapper cape
currently ending (?) in d93
yea it looks okay
mellow void
I was so glad the DLC didn't have that lmao
mellow void
dlc team may not be original team as well
The DLC doesn't have it cause magic
dapper cape
yea
wispy patrol
d93 just feels more neutral imo
dapper cape
I find it very sterile
I have no idea which is the "correct" tho
her outfit looks normal white to me here too
I see no yellow/orange in it at all
and yea I know that our eyes/brain have to adapt to D93
but why should it when D65 is the standard?
if it does not look wrong in D65 then it's probably correct
I mean it should look obviously wrong if our brain is adapted to D65
or if you start watching D65 content in D93 then will it look correct after an hour or so?
unique swift
Yes
dapper cape
then this is kinda pointless
unique swift
Yes
spring pelican
Was that shader correct? Or did notvoosh need to work on it more. I might just finish ff16 in d93 because idgaf
next forge
Was that shader correct? Or did notvoosh need to work on it more. I might just f...
i think it's correct
he updated it
spring pelican
Yolo
still wharf
everything is D65 so keep everything in D65
We can keep things in D65 but the primaries would need to be adapted from D93 rec709 -> D65
fun fact: the difference from d65 to d93 is approximately the same difference from d50 (print) to d65
mystic atlas
to complicate matters, the hdr option in the [japanese article](https://jisakuhi...
CCT or colour temp of the white point?
ah found it
does not mention if it is CCT or colour temp
prime scaffold
the lastest geforce driver completly breaks this game
dapper cape
the lastest geforce driver completly breaks this game
how? I tested it with the new DLSS dll and it worked fine
prime scaffold
extremly cpu limited in some areas
let me take sreenshots
or should i call it low gpu usage maybe
prime scaffold
how? I tested it with the new DLSS dll and it worked fine
566.36 vs 572.16
97 fps vs 63 fps
dapper cape
thats weird
I will test it, at very intensive areas, later on my 4080
it looked fine yesterday but I use a 9800X3D
coarse crater
If you have optiscaler installed try uninstalling it, I had GPU utilization issue in another game with optiscaler with the new drivers
prime scaffold
i dont have anything extra installed
prime scaffold
well
literally tried everything to fix that
im done
just rollback the driver until the next driver
spring pelican
the lastest geforce driver completly breaks this game
Runs fine for me. Only issue i have is that SK completely crashes my entire computer with the game when I use it lol. No crashes in the game without it
I didn't test all areas though
spring pelican
Which SK version are you on?
spring pelican
installer or nightly
can you provide the exact version? I need to test this ha
maybe i'm due for a clean driver install too
spring pelican
Thx. I'm gonna do a clean driver install and see if it fixes it.
It's definitely SK causing it, and only for this game 🤷
dapper cape
can you test this specific area ?
works fine on my end, 99% GPU and around 40-50% CPU usage
60-70fps with a 4080 dynamic res enabled
is that a water cooled (custom loop) 4090 btw?
31C at 100% usage is impressive even by 4090 standards
dark tendon
the latest driver added rebar to ffxvi and that seems to be causing issues
dapper cape
oh interesting
spring pelican
Any crashing issues reported? Or just performance?
dark tendon
corrupted graphics on some mobile GPUs
dapper cape
I enabled rebar but the performance is the same
spring pelican
corrupted graphics on some mobile GPUs
People play FF16 on mobile?
dapper cape
Any crashing issues reported? Or just performance?
my PC froze two times with rebar enabled + SK
no freezing with rebar off
it's not just you
dark tendon
People play FF16 on mobile?
mobile = laptops
spring pelican
it's not just you
oh thank God
dapper cape
So you got like a total system lockup?
yea
spring pelican
Wow
dapper cape
no blue screen or anything
dapper cape
it hard locks/freezes
spring pelican
yep
dapper cape
no issue with rebar disabled tho
spring pelican
I thought it's defaulted on now
Also even with rebar it doesn't crash without SK. It must be an interaction with rebar and SK. I dont get it haha
@dapper cape did yours crash even without SK?
dapper cape
<@504732204887179275> did yours crash even without SK?
I don't think so
I launched the game without SK and rebar enabled and it worked fine
then I launched the game with rebar and SK -> pc froze on quit
then I restarted PC and then the PC crashed in the menu
spring pelican
interesting
i wonder what the interaction is between SK and rebar that it causes a full system lockup
spring pelican
teh default is still disabled tho
You mean if I reset to driver defaults then it disables it?
spring pelican
well that seemed to work. SK reports rebar as off and no further crashes
i do think my performance might have also suffered a bit with the new drivers but I didn't do a detailed compare
mint hawk
try disabling rebar
mint hawk
corrupted graphics on some mobile GPUs
even on desktop
mint hawk
well that seemed to work. SK reports rebar as off and no further crashes
you can disable rebar if you right click with sk
spring pelican
yea
i wonder what causes the system lockup with rebar + SK
that's so weird
it was indeed enabled though
I hope there are no similar crashes with other games using SK + Rebar
spring pelican
I rolled back drivers to be safe. I've read reports of the crash happening during other games and even out of games.
mint hawk
i wonder what causes the system lockup with rebar + SK
worked fine on my machine
prime scaffold
works fine on my end, 99% GPU and around 40-50% CPU usage
thank you for testing, i disable the rebar for ffxvi and the fps is now exactly the same as the old driver
it is a custom loop, been running that for years
prime scaffold
the latest driver added rebar to ffxvi and that seems to be causing issues
wow that fix my problem completely
dapper cape
this new driver is weird
unique swift
I knew I shouldn't update
unique swift
dapper cape
great launch 😄
unique swift
Ah well, I see no issues with Rebirth, I'm not downgrading yet
dapper cape
where is the "update broke the best HDR mod Starfield Luma" open issue?
unique swift
Didn't know it had a competition
prime scaffold
well its more than one month since the last driver
they might changed a lot of things in this new driver
unique swift
It's also a completely new branch
So issues were to be expected, I guess
prime scaffold
you definitely want to disable rebar for ffxvi at least
spring pelican
I rolled back. To be safe
These are serious crashes and it almost seemed like it was fucking up the GPU voltage or something.
Might cause damage if you keep getting the crashes
Better to be on the safe side
I've never gotten crashes like that from a gpu
prime scaffold
whats your windows version
23h2?
i dont have crashes in ffxvi
but spiderman 2 just keeps crashing
10 times an hour
unplayable
spring pelican
23h2
100% roll back if you're on these drivers. The crashes just felt "bad." You never know..... remember when that amazon rpg game was bricking gpus? Like who the fuck knows
spring pelican
the new driver was not ready
I'll never get first drivers for a new gpu gen again lol
spring pelican
Game might have a separate issue. I'm just talking about thise wild system freezes
spring pelican
Also my bios reset when i got 3 of those freezes in a row, before I realized what was causing them. I thought my mobo got bricked. Seeing other people saying similar. A few had motherboard errors and couldn't even boot. Makes me think this is a really bad issue ....stay the fuck away lol
dense salmon
Came to post this...
But you already talked about the driver issues. Verifying files as a fix because I was changing the DLSS files.
Using SK makes my computer to hard lock.
Also cannot get the NVIDIA app to recognize the game.
dapper cape
I rolled back
prime scaffold
so 24H2 is still buggy right
unique swift
Probably will remain that way until 25H2
dense salmon
Well. It actually mentions 23H2 which is the one I'm badly trying to stay with.
dapper cape
you can choose between overall buggy mess which is 24H2 or buggy new Nvidia driver which is has more issues on 23H2
unique swift
No better time to be a PC gamer
mint hawk
what's the gsync issue this post mentions?
#🖥️tvs-and-monitors message
spring pelican
you can choose between overall buggy mess which is 24H2 or buggy new Nvidia driv...
Did they narrow it down to 23H2 and the new drivers?
dense salmon
New DLSS frame gen sucks in this game though.
dense salmon
Yes. Way more ghosting around Claive. Outright noticeable. Super resolution is fine though. Not sure if much better.
Profile K is the new default, right?
spring pelican
Yea
The game has ghosting around Claive when moving the camera even with the fg off and the old cnn model of dlss too
dapper cape
The game has ghosting around Claive when moving the camera even with the fg off ...
I see no ghosting?
Do you have motion blur enabled?
dense salmon
Just with FG for me. More noticeable with th enew files. Way more.
spring pelican
try motion blur off maybe
like the game has a bit of ghosting when moving camera just normally i noticed (no framegen and even old model)
the new framegen might have made it a bit worse. i assumed framegen in general did that
could be a dynamic res thing
dapper cape
Profile K is the new default, right?
FFXVI default to profile C btw
dense salmon
Although it's not that bad with 3.7 but you have to put the character's silhouette against the clear sky to notice it more easily.
dapper cape
I had to manually switch to profile K
spring pelican
You can set SK to 'dlss default' for preset and it'll go to K
dense salmon
FFXVI default to profile C btw
I noticed. Just tested it against E. Will check now.
dapper cape
You can set SK to 'dlss default' for preset and it'll go to K
yea I only tested it with game default I think
dense salmon
Both showed a bit of shimmering when moving the camera around certain objects and textures.
spring pelican
@dapper capecould also be 4k vs 1440p. like maybe i get more ghosting cause lower res. idk
i def see it normally though. I just never looked super hard until recently
dapper cape
I use 4k -> dynamic res
spring pelican
i'm using 1440 --> dynamic
dense salmon
I'm on 4K DLSS Q.
spring pelican
without motion blur do you get any ghosting
if it goes away with blur then i'll turn it on
dapper cape
I see no ghosting with motion blur disabled
dapper cape
but I will recheck it sec
dense salmon
You cannot turn motion blur off if using FG I think.
spring pelican
right
i meant no FG, motion blur off
like when i rolled back i tested FG off with the original dlls (so 3.7.10) and i could still see it a bit
not a huge deal
dapper cape
shader precompilation...
spring pelican
haha takes a while
spring pelican
lolll
dapper cape
it goes up to 91C
spring pelican
that's normal for ryzen ha
spring pelican
mine can hit 91 as well then it soft throttles the core clock
somehow riven gets it up to that, i have no idea how
dapper cape
50%
spring pelican
hm idk then
dapper cape
even If I move the camera like crazy
spring pelican
maybe cause i'm on lower res
i'll see if i can get a screenshot of it but probably not
dapper cape
no ghosting with FG either
spring pelican
dense salmon
I'd say DLSS SR 3.10 looks quite better. Hard to appreciate in pictures but you can test it easily and see the difference if you know where to look.
dapper cape
thats ssr
spring pelican
seems to be the sea yea
dapper cape
not ghosting
spring pelican
oh
dense salmon
9800x3d's max operating temp is 95 or something
Shader precomp makes my CPU sweat more than Cinebench haha.
spring pelican
ok lemme test FG agan then
dapper cape
classic screen space reflection
dapper cape
Shader precomp makes my CPU sweat more than Cinebench haha.
you mean the CPU?
I can notice some artifacting with FG
spring pelican
with FG i do get this though
not there without FG or really hard to see
and on the left arm
that was moving the camera
dapper cape
yea I can notice something similar with FG
it's not ghosting but more of an outline
or something
no issue without FG
dense salmon
I think that's just some SSR effect because of the lake. Try against the sky. I clearly see Clive's silhouette wobbling around. Mostly the hair and the hilt of the blade.
dense salmon
you mean the CPU?
Yes. Haha.
spring pelican
yea you're right the pic above shows the ghosting
it's FG
also noticed that framegen disables the vignette toggle?
idk why
dapper cape
FG also disables motion blur control
yea FG is not perfect but tbh it's barely noticeable
dense salmon
also noticed that framegen disables the vignette toggle?
And motion blur, right? I think there is a mod to circumvent those.
dapper cape
and no issue without FG
spring pelican
Does that mean vignette is forced on with FG?
dapper cape
forced off probably
dense salmon
yea FG is not perfect but tbh it's barely noticeable
I just notice it if done against the sky. Now try the new .dll for frame gen. You'll notice it way more.
dapper cape
motion blur and vignette look bad with FG especially motion blur
dapper cape
I just notice it if done against the sky. Now try the new .dll for frame gen. Yo...
I only tested it with the new dll
dense salmon
I only tested it with the new dll
Wow... To me it's really unbearable with the new FG files. Maybe this is why it's not added to the NVIDA app yet.
spring pelican
forced off probably
good. i turn it off anyway
dense salmon
Definitely the new DLSS SR is sharper, but I was experiencing more smearing than usual around trees when moving around. Tried the previous version and it was almost gone. Now I tried profile J instead of K and I'd say it brings the best of both versions: no smearing and improved detail.
spring pelican
performance still tanks in the area i mentioned above
just roll back
spring pelican
Definitely the new DLSS SR is sharper, but I was experiencing more smearing than...
I'm not sure how to force J on 310.2 without the new drivers
dense salmon
I'm using DLSSTweaks but it forces it globally. Trying to do so per game but still have not figure dout how to do so.
Although if you have the override through the NVIDIA app I think it takes priority over DLSSTweaks.
spring pelican
So you're saying that in FF16, 310.2 looks good, but with preset J? Otherwise you see smearing?
I could always use 310.1, which has preset J as default
dapper cape
I'm not sure how to force J on 310.2 without the new drivers
I use inspector
spring pelican
I use inspector
the overrides aren't there without those new drivers we ditched
dapper cape
you can force preset K with profile inspector but you need the new dll ofc
dapper cape
the overrides aren't there without those new drivers we ditched
thats where the custom xml comes in haha
spring pelican
oh i figured the new drivers added those flags
and that you needed the new driver
not the case?
dapper cape
the preset override is an old driver level feature
the new driver adds the new dll override flags
dapper cape
So you're saying that in FF16, 310.2 looks good, but with preset J? Otherwise yo...
preset K looks the best with dll version 310.2.1
spring pelican
the new driver adds the new dll override flags
oh so i can reveal it with that xml on older drivers? Can you re-link me to that xml if you have it handy?
spring pelican
preset K looks the best with dll version 310.2.1
Yea that's why I was asking above if he thought J looked better, even on 310.2
dense salmon
preset K looks the best with dll version 310.2.1
Try this location and see hoy badly that tree smears when you strafe you character.
Or just by passing by.
The tree to the left.
spring pelican
and you tried FG off? Because we determined last night that FG causes some smearing
dapper cape
yea I don't use FG
spring pelican
Oh, that was directed at @dense salmon
in regards to the tree smearing he's talking about
I'm not gonna use FG either
gonna stick with 60 fps w/ controller. It's fine
dapper cape
where is this
found it
dense salmon
Profile K.
dapper cape
Profile K.
without fg?
dense salmon
No. No. FG.
dapper cape
I see zero ghosting with SR only
nothing like this at all
something is wrong on your end
spring pelican
could be cause the water is there
seems to be SSR issues with water, at least at the base and the sea
dense salmon
spring pelican
try changing angle where water isn't behind
dapper cape
your's is full of discollusion artifacts too
what resolution is this?
this is a very GPu heavy location
spring pelican
what are discollusion artifacts
dapper cape
what are discollusion artifacts
focus on Clive's legs
that fizzle thing
around his legs
and the grass
is pixelated
spring pelican
oh that's the thing you explained to me the other day? You said the new transformer model has that issue
due to getting rid of motion blur
spring pelican
I can test this later tonight. Can someone show me a screenshot on the map for where this is?
dense salmon
It happens whether FG is on or off.
spring pelican
Thx. Will keep ya posted
spring pelican
i dont really see it in your screenshot
dapper cape
idk i can't really notice it
spring pelican
Because I thought that was ghosting as well
dapper cape
and we're sure this isn't just the bad SSR?
there are not reflections here
dapper cape
its a little noticeable on the tree here
but nothing extreme
I have to concentrate on distant trees covered in smoke/mist to notice it
it almost looks like per/object motion blur lol
dense salmon
you can force preset K with profile inspector but you need the new dll ofc
Do you know a way to force profiles per game? SK doe snot support the newer ones and DLSSTweaks is not working unless I override it globally.
spring pelican
i just tested this spot with Preset K and 310.2 dll. I'm not seeing this at all really
looks really stable actually
Left one is when not moving. Right one was when moving the camera
dense salmon
More noticiable when running in parallel to the trees.
spring pelican
i'm still not seeing it
maybe a tiny bit if i really pay attention
but i never would have noticed ha
Here's the worst i could make it blur by Claive sprinting + moving camera
i wouldn't even normally be moving the camera this fast since I play with controller
dapper cape
Do you know a way to force profiles per game? SK doe snot support the newer ones...
use profile inspector
dense salmon
It the trees against the trees mostly. Against the sky you cannot make it happen.
spring pelican
I think K looks extremely stable tbh
spring pelican
The 572.16 drivers are buggy. It could also be that causing it
dapper cape
Why is it linking the DLSSTeaks config?
no idea
spring pelican
i rolled back to 566.36
dapper cape
I don't use dlsstweaks
spring pelican
Yea I don't use it either. I already use too many apps ha
I rather just force it with inspector.
dapper cape
dense salmon
I'd rather stick to one app too.
dapper cape
are you on the latest driver? if so then you can find the SR profile override setting without needing a custom xml
under other
spring pelican
he has the XML on the older drivers
you'll see it under "other" i think
and it'll be slightly different flags
dapper cape
Don't see it like yours.
it's under other with that driver
dense salmon
Cool. Now if you could tell me how to enable the DLSS overlay through inspector it'd be awesome.
spring pelican
you can do that with SK
under dlss indicators i think
but you have to restart the game after enabling/disabling
dense salmon
K fixed it more or less
Now I wonder about this but will try playing with profile J for a while, see how it behaves.
Loaded C by accident when set everything to default and it did not have that trail either. Anyways... We'll see. Haha.
spring pelican
Yea now you'll know 100% which presets you have
and you can see if maybe you were forcing another preset earlier by mistake
spring pelican
Loaded C by accident when set everything to default and it did not have that tra...
If you set it to "dlss default" in SK then it'll default to K
dapper cape
preset E was ghosting for me with the old model
dapper cape
I did not check distant LOD smearing but moving the camera was enough to see smearing around clive
spring pelican
What exactly happens when you force old presets with the transformer DLL
does it switch back to CNN model?
i feel like it doesn't
dapper cape
good question
prime scaffold
it does
spring pelican
like can you say that transformer w/ preset E looks better/worse than CNN w/ preset E?
might be "wrong" to mix them like that
spring pelican
it does
I guess the dlss debug would tell you
it says "transformer model" doesn't it?
so you can use preset E and see if that changes
prime scaffold
the fps goes up
dapper cape
it does
so those people who were saying that transformer model preset E looks better with DLAA were actually testing CNN model preset E lol
spring pelican
so those people who were saying that transformer model preset E looks better wit...
Yea, if true ha
I can test this later tn with the debug menu
should be obvious hopefully
spring pelican
I just wanna confirm with the debug menu so we're not speculating
dapper cape
the difference is like 5%
prime scaffold
preset E gives you higher fps
yeah 5%
but when you hit like 800 fps
its more than 10%
dapper cape
I'm happy if I can hit 80
prime scaffold
it adds fixed amount of frametime
dapper cape
lol
prime scaffold
the higher fps you go, the more fps you lose
dapper cape
well yea that's how percentage works
prime scaffold
but im on a 120hz screen
prime scaffold
yeah
dapper cape
it limits base fps to 57.5
prime scaffold
and MFG is completely useless
dapper cape
yup
nova socket
FG is barely usable on a 120hz screen
Me initially trying out FG on a 60hz display 
prime scaffold
you need at least 240hz for MFG
the base fps is then 56
which is still not great lol
maybe you need a 360hz screen
spring pelican
I think ideally you want 80fps, but no lower than like 55
prime scaffold
4k 360hz
dapper cape
I will upgrade to a G4 or G5 next year that supports 165hz
prime scaffold
4k 360hz should require dp2.1
prime scaffold
on 360hz screen MFG 4x base framerate is 81 maximun
prime scaffold
or was it just a ces thing?
there is a 4k 480hz one iirc
dapper cape
on 360hz screen MFG 4x base framerate is 81 maximun
that's acceptable
dapper cape
I will stick with the 165hz G5 for 3-5 years so normal FG is more than good enough for me
thats 160hz with reflex enabled aka 80fps base
spring pelican
I will stick with the 165hz G5 for 3-5 years so normal FG is more than good enou...
Maybe I'll get a G5 as well, if they're good
dapper cape
yea
dapper cape
Maybe I'll get a G5 as well, if they're good
it's going to be the next best thing probably
we will see
prime scaffold
G5 should hit 2000 nits on a 10% windows at d65 white point
you will need pumbo's shader for 2000nits
dapper cape
sounds good
spring pelican
Yea 2000 nits would be awesome
dapper cape
a real upgrade over the c1
dense salmon
C9 here. Haha. Getting old.
spring pelican
yea definitely
spring pelican
more or less
prime scaffold
haha
spring pelican
C9 - C3 are like the same but C2/3 got DV enhancements i think
prime scaffold
c4 is noticably better though
spring pelican
idk the specific changes to be honest
prime scaffold
you lose dts support with cx - c2
spring pelican
That doens't matter to me since I use external devices via the receiver
But I understand why it sucks if you pass through audio
dapper cape
That doens't matter to me since I use external devices via the receiver
same
CX-C3 are near identical in Game mode
C4 is somewhat better
spring pelican
C1 doens't have color booster in filmmaker mode. C2 has it in filmmaker mode
that's a pretty big difference
dapper cape
the G3-4 are good but I feel like that the G5 is going to be the first truly big upgrade over the C1
dapper cape
C1 doens't have color booster in filmmaker mode. C2 has it in filmmaker mode
yea, but I'm talking about game mode performance
spring pelican
Yea I'm just blurting out any picture quality differences ha
Because a G5 would be my living room TV
prime scaffold
yea, but I'm talking about game mode performance
i play games with FM mode actually
dapper cape
i play games with FM mode actually
why?
spring pelican
Also this is extremely niche and won't affect 99.9999% of people, but up to C1 has solid black DV L5 masks, whereas C2 has semi transparent
spring pelican
you wont use it for gaming
For emulation I would but yea
spring pelican
the difference on the C1 is noticeable
I think it's still only 8ms increase though for filmmaker mode
prime scaffold
you need engage pc mode
dapper cape
Also this is extremely niche and won't affect 99.9999% of people, but up to C1 h...
120hz bfi too
prime scaffold
other wise its pretty laggy
spring pelican
120hz bfi too
ah yes, that too. That's a big one
dapper cape
you need engage pc mode
yea i'm using it with PC mode
spring pelican
you need engage pc mode
Can you use game optimizer, like VRR, etc, in filmmaker mode?
dapper cape
c1 doesnt have color boost in fm mode
that too, kinda pointless to use FM mode
with a C1
spring pelican
can you use filmmaker mode with game optimizer toggled on, but not in the game optimizer picture mode?
dapper cape
you can turn on game optimiser
dapper cape
yea
spring pelican
you can turn on game optimiser
So you can turn on game optimizer stuff even when not in the game optimizer picture mode?
dapper cape
So you can turn on game optimizer stuff even when not in the game optimizer pict...
I think you can but I have to restest it
spring pelican
So then where does the decrease in latency come from with game optimizer mode? I figured it was from the game optimizer menu (since those have latency controls)
i guess filmmaker mode has post processing stuff forced on
dapper cape
So then where does the decrease in latency come from with game optimizer mode? I...
it turns off most of the image enhancing stuff
prime scaffold
So then where does the decrease in latency come from with game optimizer mode? I...
i turn off the game optimizer
dapper cape
like better dithering
prime scaffold
latency is the same
spring pelican
latency is the same
But you'll lose VRR, right?
spring pelican
I thought the VRR on/off toggle was in the game optimizer menu
prime scaffold
pc mode or 444 passthrough is all you need
one of them is fine
the lastest firmware also auto detect pc mode
dapper cape
and ycbcr 444 in the nvidia display settings
spring pelican
it doesnt matter
Hm thought there was a toggle in game optimizer menu. Maybe that's like if you want to use the menu stuff but not have VRR. Idk
how much extra latency reduction then do you get from PC mode vs. non-PC mode
I always found this confusing for some reason
dapper cape
it's noticeable on the C1
I can't measure it
VRR works fine without game optimiser
spring pelican
gotchya
dapper cape
but you loose the fine tuning options
dapper cape
and ofc BFI etc are disabled
spring pelican
yea
The G4 I believe has color booster in game mode, right?
So the G5 will too
so it's really a non-issue now
dapper cape
yea
I will definitely wont get a G5 this year I will let early adopters find all the issues with it first lol
spring pelican
Yea for sure, and firmware updates
you dont want to calibrate before most of the firmware stuff is worked out
otherwise you run the risk of having to re-do the calibration
prime scaffold
how much extra latency reduction then do you get from PC mode vs. non-PC mode
very noticable on non game mode
spring pelican
very noticable on non game mode
wonder how much it reduces it for game mode tho
spring pelican
so you dont really get more benefit with pc mode w/ game optimizer? I know that's how you get 444. I'm talking just latency here.
dapper cape
you mean PC mode?
prime scaffold
game mode = lowest latecey without extra setting
pc mode = 8ms higher latency than the lowest latecey
without extra setting
and 444 passthrough is the same as pc mode
spring pelican
what do you mean extra setting
Sorry, so what's Game Optimizer w/o PC vs. Game optimizer w/ PC?
spring pelican
gotchya
prime scaffold
you lose like 95% feature already in pc mode
prime scaffold
lg really made their tv plug and play on pc tbh
latest firmware auto detect pc and set it to pc mode
dapper cape
All I know is that on the C1 the difference between FM PC mode and Game PC mode is very noticeable, definitely higher than 8ms
prime scaffold
but idk if game optimizer would reduce latency in non pc mode and non game mode
prime scaffold
All I know is that on the C1 the difference between FM PC mode and Game PC mode ...
yeah
8ms is like nothing
dapper cape
the mouse feels "delayed" with FM
prime scaffold
street fighter 6 has a 50ms end to end latency
spring pelican
but idk if game optimizer would reduce latency in non pc mode and non game mode
maybe a little because it has that latency "boost" toggle idk
dapper cape
maybe a little because it has that latency "boost" toggle idk
yea you loose most of the game optimiser features with FM
like the reduced latency toogle
I just tested it
prime scaffold
what it does is just block a lot of feature for you
seems like c1 has a different pc mode
that doesnt block theses features for you
but you dont need fm mode for gaming on c1 anyway
dapper cape
but you dont need fm mode for gaming on c1 anyway
yea it's near identical to game mode
both game and Fm modes are calibrated
dapper cape
and it's very very hard to notice the difference
dapper cape
like b2?
prime scaffold
all of them
dapper cape
ah ok
dapper cape
not the greatest
prime scaffold
the color boost does make a difference in FFXVI tbh
dapper cape
the C1 is a fine "monitor" I like it a lot, and I use it in a pitch black room, so it's bright enough
prime scaffold
it is very noticable in god of war
dapper cape
oh I will test a lot of games with it haha
older AC games reach 10k nits too I think
like Origins and Odyssey
prime scaffold
i dont have a hdr display when i played them back then
ac valhalla looks super washed out in hdr
not just gamma mismatch i think
just a broken hdr implementation
dapper cape
ac valhalla looks super washed out in hdr
valhalla looks horrible comapred to odyssey
prime scaffold
yeah
it looks worse even in sdr
i dont like that art direction at all
odyssey is very good though
dapper cape
odyssey is very good though
yea Origin too
ocean ether
valhalla looks horrible comapred to odyssey
honestly play it in SDR
looks better
the rolling hills look very nice at time
the HDR never looked right
prime scaffold
odyssey or valhalla
ocean ether
actually i messed around with black floor fix a while back and got it looking good
valhalla
i think at times its the best looking
prime scaffold
i dont like the art direction in that game
ocean ether
despite being england
dapper cape
honestly play it in SDR
I don't want to touch that game every again lol
prime scaffold
haha
ocean ether
reasonable
prime scaffold
me neither
ocean ether
prime scaffold
never intall that game ever
ocean ether
prime scaffold
im done with ubisoft games tbh
ocean ether
i'm actually optimistic about shadows
dapper cape
I spent 200 hours in Valhalla, found everything, did everything... I hate my OCD sometimes haha. I hated Eivor and I think that the main game map was boring as hell too.
ocean ether
not really interested in playing as yasuke very much
prime scaffold
combat looks awlful
ocean ether
combat in ac games has always been awful but I think shadows looks the best its ever been
so just decent
prime scaffold
stealth looks cool though
ocean ether
ya stealth is what im actually interested in
prime scaffold
i will not play though
ocean ether
a month of ubi+ is enough for me
dapper cape
shadows looks decent
prime scaffold
i bought a lot of ubisoft games
dapper cape
a month of ubi+ is enough for me
yea I will give it a try too
prime scaffold
actually almost all the big titiles
dapper cape
I used to enjoy ubisoft games
prime scaffold
I spent 200 hours in Valhalla, found everything, did everything... I hate my OCD...
200 hours is too long for me
i think the longest game i played in the past 5 years is elden ring
prime scaffold
300 hours
dapper cape
I spent around 300-400 hours on elden ring too
prime scaffold
second should be gowr
dapper cape
PS5 and PC
dapper cape
don't rememind me, I still ahve to finish gowr
but the first 5 hours were boring as hell
prime scaffold
i dont like gowr too much tbh
dapper cape
and I'm not really interested in the story either
dapper cape
oh absolutely, the combat is nice BUT I hate the "bullet" sponge enemies
It feels unrealsitic
prime scaffold
whats you progress
dapper cape
Kratos should be able to beat small enemies by looking at them
dapper cape
whats you progress
5 hours in lol
prime scaffold
there are some small enemies you can instant kill with a grab
dapper cape
but Kratos was super powerful by the end of the first game, again
and he is a weakling again
prime scaffold
runic attacks are pretty weak in ragnarök
dapper cape
I want sequels where you can continue your save with your gear
Forbidden West handled it a lot better
power armor broke and Aloy lost her gear
prime scaffold
oh i have to mention that Atreus is nerfed to the ground
dapper cape
and you actully start the game with the broken armor
prime scaffold
pretty much useless in combat
dapper cape
oh i have to mention that Atreus is nerfed to the ground
I actually enjoyed playing with the kid more than Kratos
prime scaffold
i mean when you play Kratos with him
dapper cape
yea I know
prime scaffold
in last game hes super op late game
prime scaffold
this time hes useless till the end
dapper cape
yea
prime scaffold
i actually like it though
dapper cape
I enjoyed it, but it's not a game that I will replay like ever
dapper cape
late game side quests are horrible yea
prime scaffold
which do nothing other than waste you time
dapper cape
no real crafting system
no real team play
it's a linear story focused game
which is fine
prime scaffold
i like the visual presentation and combat fluidity
dapper cape
Eikon fights look amazing
prime scaffold
major boss fights in this game all very good
dapper cape
I love the art design, character design, story, atmosphere, world building, the flashy combat system, voice acting, music
prime scaffold
game has terrible japanese voice acting though
dapper cape
idk about that
prime scaffold
had to change to english
dapper cape
the english VAs are good imo
dapper cape
weird
prime scaffold
sometimes doesnt even half match
dapper cape
a japanese game with terrible japanese voice acting
prime scaffold
but i heard its the english sub that accurate
dapper cape
so it's english first?
prime scaffold
a japanese game with terrible japanese voice acting
the story is actually design partially by the english team
dapper cape
interesting, japanese players are not the main target audience I guess
prime scaffold
ff has a lot of english fans
dapper cape
thats for sure
dapper cape
I still don't know if I want to buy FF7R or not
prime scaffold
story in japanese first for sure
mellow void
so it's english first?
English voice acted first
The Japanese dialogue acting is based on English but the script is still different
mellow void
For example, when ||joshua|| is casting magic on ultima when he appears instead of referring to his ||brother|| he's naming the various magic spells.
There's quite a few differences in English, some of which were things that didn't make a lot of sense.
Like in the intro when he says "the dominant and only the dominant" the Japanese response is "it's a woman on the battlefield there will be no mistake"
prime scaffold
yeah its quite bad in japanese
everyone who knows a littile japanese will find out
dapper cape
There's quite a few differences in English, some of which were things that didn'...
lol wtf
mellow void
Some of it think shows a little more character, like the former scene people perceive as making joshua seem more educated.
I wanna try a play through in Japanese sometime.
mellow void
Me neither, but one day...
mellow void
lol wtf
Yeah the English it kinda just sounds like they enjoy wonton killing.
When it's originally a bit of setup.
dense salmon
This game is so weaird. Now I'm experiencing some textures pop in or maybe LoD inconsistencies but they go away as soon as I'm not running Chrome in the background. Haha. Maybe VRAM? Although it says 14 GB and I'm on a 16 GB GPU.
mint hawk
what does special k say
regal pike
it is full of terrible side quest
True but the story of some of the sq were pretty compelling
dense salmon
They released a driver update with some fixes for FFXVI.
unique swift
Did rebar even helped with the performance at least?
prime scaffold
no
same performance when gpu limited
much worse when cpu limited
no reason to turn that on
spring pelican
They released a driver update with some fixes for FFXVI.
I don't see a new driver
prime scaffold