▫️Jedi Ultra+ and Emotional Support Group

[ocean hollow]

yes it's not console commands, it's the LOD definitions

[rocky hemlock]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/313/384/872

[ocean hollow]

*LODS 😂

omg i have brain problem

i just washed a bag of cashew nuts with a load of washing 🤔

[ocean hollow]

but the problem with this is it still doesn't solve the asset streaming issues, because they switch the assets using blueprints

[rocky hemlock]

https://x.com/EAStarWars/status/1820852880766841317

EA Star Wars (@EAStarWars) on X

The critically acclaimed #StarWarsJediSurvivor is coming to Xbox One and PlayStation 4 on September 17, 2024!

Pre-order now!

Xbox ➡️ https://t.co/wFlNBQefB2

PlayStation ➡️ https://t.co/EduLFc6RMK

Twitter · Aug 6, 2024, 4:02 PM

Well I be damned

[odd gulch]

lol wut

who in the world is buying new games on xbox one and ps4

[quiet oriole]

They have been preparing an update on Steam for a while now looking at its SteamDB page... maybe they did some proper optimization and fixing many of the game's systematic flaws?....... 🤣 Sorry, don't think so.... expect the last-gen port to be a technical disaster honestly...

[sturdy fractal]

it's unreal engine though. maybe they stripped all the custom stuff and let unreal do its thing. maybe it's not the same team porting

EA sounds like the type to do contract work

[rocky hemlock]

Or maybe PS3 version of Shadow of Mordor will find it's match

Finally

[quiet oriole]

To my knowledge Panic Button did the porting to the then current-gen of Fallen Order: https://panicbuttongames.com/games/star-wars-jedi-fallen-order/ So, likely them again, but god that port had large stuttering and performance issues.... so not that hopeful honestly...

[rocky hemlock]

Hollup
PC was the main platform?

Good god

[quiet oriole]

May god have mercy on us all

Honestly amazes me that these technically bad games are even allowed on the PlayStation Store, while CP2077 got removed from sale because of issues like that...

[rocky hemlock]

CP2077 was crashing constantly IIRC

[quiet oriole]

Ok, true

But good gravy the experience for the Respawn Star Wars games are bad

[quiet oriole]

In addition, the developer confirmed that a new update for the PC version of Jedi: Survivor will be available "in the coming weeks," teasing that the update will improve the game's technical performance and controls while also introducing a slew of quality-of-life improvements. https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-jedi-survivor-is-coming-to-last-gen-consoles-next-month

So, an update is really comming, but honestly don't expect that much myself of it

[dense thunder]

supposedly perfomance patch

[quiet oriole]

@dense thunder 😉

[sturdy fractal]

they just stole all of @ocean hollow 's work and put it in a patch. half joking. Bethesda also did some LUT scaling for Starfield like I had done for their "HDR" support

[odd gulch]

so this game came out almost 1.5 years ago

and finally they decide they'll patch it

🤔

[dense thunder]

oh my bad i somehow missed that. i should learn how to read

[quiet oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-office-dwight-schrute-sniper-gif-25130487

[quiet oriole]

Lol, don't pop a stiffy just yet; could be incredibly disappointing with only minor fixes and the absolute minimum.

I think we could better expect the minimum so it can only work out better than we expected

[odd gulch]

You don't have overwhelming faith in EA?

[quiet oriole]

Not after Fallen Order and Dead Space Remake no... but then just better in my opinion to lower expectations so things can only surprise you

[ocean hollow]

Avalanche did that for Hogwarts Legacy

the used all my frame timings and RHI thread changes verbatim

[ocean hollow]

i suppose i should release my latest update now 😂

[ocean hollow]

okay, this should be installed directly into Paks (not under ~mods)

3.0-rc2

• Reintroduced scalability (Epic = Ultra+, High = Epic, Medium = High, etc.)
• 10+ GB VRAM use Texture Quality Epic
• 8GB use Texture Quality High
• 6GB use Medium
• 4GB use Low
• Reworked literally everything

(includes source and the ability to build your own)

[jovial patio]

Welcome to gaming

Where you wait 2 years or more for games to actually be finished

for example https://news.ubisoft.com/en-us/article/3oDeg1rH3qrXBttnBaxN5Y/star-wars-outlaws-postlaunch-roadmap-revealed

[dense thunder]

or wait for sammi to do her thing

😎

[odd gulch]

No interest in this game. Looks like utter trash

[ocean hollow]

season pass? no.

lemme know what you think of v3?

[quiet oriole]

Well, Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora was to my knowledge a very stable Snowdrop engine game with good visuals and performance. Star Wars Outlaws is also made by them with the same tech. I'm confident it will be technically impressive. Regarding gameplay it might feel a bit Far Cry-like from the reviews, but the footage itself looks good to me.

Season pass is basically just a bad name here for some single-player story DLC.

They just get flack for it because they announced it pre-release....

At least how it comes over to me

[odd gulch]

I'm usually just put off when i see a game coming out and there are season passes and pre order exclusives advertised

like in my opinion, season pass dlc should be for future dlcs

in this case they're just paywalling a main mission that they already made

that pisses me off

this isn't DLC

it's just making people pay extra for stuff that's in the base game

[red moth]

The gameplay I’ve seen looks horrendous

[quiet oriole]

Yeah, that is bad practice...

[ocean hollow]

yep. i'm done with them. sorry, there will be no U+ for this one. they can work out how to fix it themselves (or not)

[quiet oriole]

You mean Outlaws or Survivor?

[ocean hollow]

Outlaws

i know how to fix survivor, in fact i'm pretty sure it's "fixed" except for the blueprints issue where it's sidechaining mesh loading outside of the streamer

[quiet oriole]

I think that will be ok... Avatar game was already very ok, so, don't expect huge issues in Outlaws. Same devs, same tech

[ocean hollow]

in v3.0 above, this is the only remaining stutters, when you move through specific locations, there is a script that switches out the cliffs, and because it's outside of the UE streamer this means the textures and shaders can't be made ready, causing a stall

[ocean hollow]

okay, well if they cross the line of ethics, i won't deal with them

that is a hard line for me. my values don't bend

[quiet oriole]

It is one single quest though... but not nice still indeed to keep a main quest exclusive day one to a season pass

[ocean hollow]

yes, i don't like it

[narrow wren]

what about the camera stutter

[rough moss]

Downloading Survivor again to test the mod

[ocean hollow]

try it, tell me what you think

[ocean hollow]

yay 😊

just remember, if you used to play on Epic, that's now High

Epic will extend draw distances, especially Foliage, View Distance, and Shadows so be careful with those two especially with ray tracing. I've been careful, but be warned 😊

[deep sonnet]

Plus the early access shit.

I might just let them scam me 18€ so I can play for a few days and then move to Space Marine 2 on Steam. I doubt this game will hook me enough to purchase it at full price on the Ubi store.

Although the 109,99 € edition is on top sales in many regions already.

[odd gulch]

💀

[quiet oriole]

To be the devil's advocate; you don't have to pre-order the game though and you don't have to buy the season pass to enjoy the game... you would only miss one single quest

Back to myself: still not fan of early access periods as it then often contains more bugs and is just a tool to gather more pre-orders....

But calling it a "scam" is a bit exaggerating in my personal opinion

You could also just wait a few months till it gets released on Steam with a big discount....

[odd gulch]

It's not a scam. A scam would be like the studio never gives you the mission

More just "fucking bullshit"

lol

or "exploitative"

[deep sonnet]

18€ for a month and then maybe 45 on grey market is cheaper still than paying the 109,99€ second tier edition. God! It's even cheaper then the 70€ basic edition.

Of course "scam" is an exaggeration. But this is still a Jedi Games Emotional Support games, so emotions are high of course when it comes to Star Wars.

I'm not seeing reviews or nothing and is interesting how many people got codes to try it out. YouTube is full of videos of it. I just want to play it as soon as possible and see it with my own eyes. Don't have great expectations but Snow Drop is a great engine to build detailed worlds. I played a lot of The Division games and always thought to myself... Imagine this in a Star Wars universe....

[odd gulch]

I hated the division

thought it was the most boring game i've ever played in my life

rofl

but a lot of people liked it

[deep sonnet]

Was amazingly beautiful. The atmosphere it created of Now York during almost Christmas all empty and devastated is really hard to forget.

[odd gulch]

Yea I'll give it that

Did you ever play Star Wars Squadrons?

[quiet oriole]

Lets continue this conversation at #💬chat 🙂

[rough moss]

Which new epic settings are most taxing?

And are high settings close to vanilla epic or are some still improved?

[ocean hollow]

definitely view distance, I extend it to 1.4x ... and lighting gets extended to the same. the second would be shadows, I extend them to 2x, but they weren't too bad for me. if I don't sprint around the map like a lunatic it's actually very smooth for me, the biggest problem is still when the script switches HLOD1 for HLOD0, there is a hitch or stall

if it's working you should notice the intro movie is smooth for the first time, and whatchamacallit turning around shouldn't stutter most of the time now

we need to find a way to disable the scripted HLOD switching, it's not a good way to do it Respawn

[rough moss]

I know on my version it still stuttered for me.

[solemn gorge]

Not going on nexus?

[jovial patio]

We are the test guineas afaik

[ocean hollow]

yes I'm waiting for feedback. otherwise I can put it on nexus as an experimental version

v3 is completely redone, it has basically nothing to do with v2

I want donuts

[ocean hollow]

https://www.nexusmods.com/starwarsjedisurvivor/mods/236?tab=files

[quiet oriole]

Good luck when the new patch soon arrives... you might have to redo a lot of work...

Or not if it turns out they actually did very little haha

[ocean hollow]

I know :/ rrghh

I mean really I hope they fix the game

I don't really care I just want people to be able to play it

[odd gulch]

when does the patch come out again?

[rocky hemlock]

Probably in September, around the release of the last gen ports

[jovial patio]

only problem i've seen so far, barely touched the game to be fair (game's native HDR was on, SK injected)

[ocean hollow]

that's very orange 😂

how's it running?

[jovial patio]

A lot lot better, hoping this and the patch next month will finally make this game playable. Did see some heavy brief drops on camera cuts but I assume that’s due to shaders loading

[ocean hollow]

no it's Respawn scripting LOD changes, which afaik is the last thing breaking things (causing hitches)

i need someone who can do blueprint and asset modding to help me fix it because it's not directly an engine problem

[jovial patio]

ah right, i noticed it dipped a bit when the elevator opened and the tall droid grabs you at the start

[jovial patio]

might be worth waiting and seeing if the official patch improves things first i guess before spending a bunch more time on it

right now the fix helps a lot which is awesome

[ocean hollow]

i don't think it will.. they've made the decision to switch out LODs/HLODs using scripts because they think the engine needs it (it absolutely doesn't)... what's happened is they've misconfigured the engine and then tried to fix it by scripting asset loads... if they haven't realised this in 8 patches they're not going to, not unless something changes

[jovial patio]

Yeah that’s my worry as well 🥲

[ocean hollow]

I suppose I could try and contact them

[jovial patio]

https://www.respawn.com/careers-listings

plenty of jobs available haha 😉

[quiet oriole]

Wait, didn't Respawn also get some "personel-reduction" a while back?

[jovial patio]

no idea i dont follow that stuff

[rocky hemlock]

Stig Asmussen left to form a new studio, possibly some employees followed him

[quiet oriole]

Ah yeah, that could explain

Quite some open spots for tech staff, hope they are more capable than the ones previously working on Fallen Order and Survivor haha

Would be amazing if EA also went back to Dead Space remake to improve its very regular loading-related stutters 😅

[rocky hemlock]

It's not that the people working on those games where incompetent, but they where pushed out the door too early and EA has no interest in funding patches beyond what they are contracted to

[quiet oriole]

Idk about that honestly, both Fallen Order and Survivor having very similar issues... would in my opinion indicate a systematic problem

[rocky hemlock]

Many of those are systemic UE4 problems

[quiet oriole]

But yeah, crunch and not getting enough time to fix the underlying issues by EA could contribute

[quiet oriole]

Yeah, but with time and effort, even that could be fixed.

See games like HiFi Rush, Gears 4, Gears 5 etc.

[ocean hollow]

no, it's specifically how they've built the game and modified the engine

[quiet oriole]

Do you have any knowledge about why they modified the engine this way? Was UE4 really uncapable of the things they needed?

[rocky hemlock]

Maybe, but stuttering is emblematic to UE at this point

Especially late UE4

UE5 seems noticeably better in this area so far

[quiet oriole]

Yeah, seem like many defaults in UE4 are set extremely inefficient and the blueprint system being very much single-threaded etc. But again, there are many examples where devs managed to fix all that.

[quiet oriole]

Yeah, but UE5-development as of late also has gotten focus on fixing those issues

[ocean hollow]

yes... the short version is they

1. set up the streamer wrong (most of the pre-streaming, shader baking, and background workers are off)
2. tried to modify the source code to fix it
3. broke it in a much worse way

same as Hogwarts

[rocky hemlock]

UE4 is not an open world friendly engine ootb, it's probably related to creating a large, detail rich environment

[ocean hollow]

the root causes are a) bad defaults by Epic that nobody knows to change and b) nobody understanding the streamer

[ocean hollow]

it is if it's set up right

[rocky hemlock]

Epic themselves admitted so when they announced partnership with CDPR

[ocean hollow]

the problem is there is no single guide on how to do it

[ocean hollow]

I'm aware and I still disagree

[quiet oriole]

Not per se, not really, they just announced a partnership to IMPROVE capabilities of the engine for open worlds. The agreement concerns the terms under which the Company is permitted to make use of Unreal Engine and provides a framework of collaboration with Epic Games on further development and improvement of this engine in order to adapt it to the requirements of open-world games

[ocean hollow]

UE4's defaults settings are:

• 1024x textures
• most background workers off
• stall the CPU every 30MB
• stall the CPU every 100 requests
• allow 30ms per frame for (33 fps) background shader compilation
• allow 15ms per frame for foreground shaders
  a lot more problems. it's all wrong

[rocky hemlock]

"in order to adapt it to the requirements of open-world games"

[ocean hollow]

no it's fine as is tbh

I'm not concerned I'd have any problems getting stock UE4 working well in a large detailed open world game

[quiet oriole]

....and improvement.....

[rocky hemlock]

Have you seen this before?
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jaroslaw-rudzki_ufpresentation-activity-7219420743015514113-A94e/

[rocky hemlock]

Yes, they are improving the engine to make it open world friendly
Which is exactly what I've said

[rocky hemlock]

So, like I've said, it's not open world friendly Out Of The Box

[quiet oriole]

Keep in mind that in all cases just because a user can't get something done when using something doesn't mean it CAN'T be done. For example, just because I can't shoot someone from 10 meters, my neighbor can't and my mother can't, doesn't mean someone else can't either. Pumbo might be very good at it... Get where I'm going?

Seems that is also the way it is with UE4

[quiet oriole]

I interpreted it more as improvement instead of having at that moment no support for it at all..

[quiet oriole]

Adjusting some internal settings should be able to get you quite far, but seemingly some devs overlook that...

[ocean hollow]

no. that's really nice

[rocky hemlock]

The thing about UE is that it allows you to make anything you want, but it also makes it incredibly bloated and inefficient unless you put a lot of work in optimization

[ocean hollow]

I'm not saying it can't be improved. I'm saying the large open world games I've worked on so far did not need to have any problems

and also, I doubt their original frame time graphs had all of the correct optimisations

so once again, we are optimizing a non-ideal setup

[quiet oriole]

True, but also of the opinion while even though the defaults might be wrong, it also gives me the feeling that many devs simply don't (want) spend time actually looking into it.

[ocean hollow]

I can't say it more clearly. Epics defaults are wrong

they don't

and I don't even think Epic remembers about those settings

I've seen threads where epic staff recommend various fixes, but not the basic ones

[shut relic]

Would it be possible to make a universal UE mod that fixes a bunch of bad default settings that devs often seem to not change?

[quiet oriole]

I think some adjustements have been made now in later UE5 version right?

[ocean hollow]

yes... kind of

I could write a set of instructions

a lot of the edits are internal ini files (not engine.ini)

[quiet oriole]

But not every setting is applicable to every game right?

[shut relic]

ah, hmm

[rocky hemlock]

@quiet oriole https://youtu.be/WGv_BjxvJ8M?t=2600

[ocean hollow]

no... because games are built differently, then there's plugins and source code changes

[ocean hollow]

I think so in 5.3 and 5.4

it's about 4.18 to 5.2 that were the problem

where they improved the performance of the streamer massively and left old settings that choked it

it's a drum buffer rope problem (Theory of Constraints)

[shut relic]

I would be very interested in such a mod. There are so many games suffering from shader comp and traversal stutter that something universal is almost needed lol

[quiet oriole]

Probably very very true, but if you make your own implementations that work very very badly, like Survivor, idk if this worked out well haha

[rocky hemlock]

Epic defaults for the streamer has been a bane for the PC games since the original Gears of War release
It's stuttered like crazy one even the top end hardware of the period
And that game came out almost 20 years ago

[ocean hollow]

ugh, fuck Lyme disease, seriously

[ocean hollow]

yes but back then the streamer was so slow

it struggled loading one texture per frame lol

[ocean hollow]

okay, I'll write something up

the reality is I can't mod every game 😂

[shut relic]

nice

[ocean hollow]

and the drum buffer rope problem is, if there are small stops and starts at the beginning of the render pipeline, they result in massive hammering by the end of it

like cars in heavy traffic

[rocky hemlock]

Still waiting for the patreon page

[jovial patio]

They aren’t doing a sequel so I doubt there’s any budget for fixing that anymore

[quiet oriole]

You have that?

[ocean hollow]

yes

[quiet oriole]

Ugh, chronic?

[ocean hollow]

okay, maybe 🤔

[ocean hollow]

yes I've had it for 10 years

9...

[quiet oriole]

😥

[ocean hollow]

I'm so sore today

[jovial patio]

Gears 5 says hello

[ocean hollow]

the other problem is game devs don't bake their games properly

[quiet oriole]

https://www.eurogamer.net/star-wars-jedi-3-is-on-the-way-according-to-cal-kestis-actor-cameron-monaghan Uhm, u sure?

[ocean hollow]

what you're supposed to do is play every corner of the game and record the movements

then let the engine bake all the shaders etc.

[quiet oriole]

My point

[ocean hollow]

I haven't seen a game yet with complete shaders

[rocky hemlock]

Gears 5 uses a fork of UE4.11 with some stuff backported from the newer versions of the engine and a lot of custom tech

[ocean hollow]

yaye 😊

[rocky hemlock]

It's as far from ootb as you can get

[quiet oriole]

You're 100% sure, source? Not questioning it really, just curious about it 🙂

[jovial patio]

I was talking about dead space

[jovial patio]

Didn’t really have shader comp stutter though, just some microstutter at high frame rates

[quiet oriole]

Oh sorry, didn't see what reaction of me your quoted

[ocean hollow]

that might be fixable with r.FinishCurrentFrame

[jovial patio]

Hmm, any more details how? It has EAC as well but I have no idea if the game even respects Engine.ini changes

[rocky hemlock]

Afaik it's using the same base engine version as Gears 4

[ocean hollow]

the best way is to use UUU and do it live

way too many people edit the engine.ini and reload the game and it's almost all confirmation bias

[quiet oriole]

Nice, you're making my point for me then haha

But honestly, comes over to me as devs really want UE to be the one-for-all solution with actual not many changes needed, how it actually should be of course. Devs and companies seem to really focus on that, causing tech-knowledgable people becoming less and less in existence over time... when UE then craps, nobody knows how to properly fix it... at least how it comes over to me.

[ocean hollow]

this is the irony of the situation

the stuff I've learnt hasn't been easy to find either

nn guys 😊 x

[jovial patio]

heh i cant even see the gears5 process in UUU, greaaat

[quiet oriole]

Maybe a combination of many?: unclear and incomplete Epic documentation AND maybe some devs not having the tech-know-how AND not having the time/budget/priorities to even look into it?

[jovial patio]

rip This game has Easy Anti Cheat. The tools won't work if you just start the game. You need to bypass the EAC. This also means you can't run a multiplayer game.

[jovial patio]

r.FinishCurrentFrame=1
that's enabled, right? not 0?

[ocean hollow]

enabled is 1 yes

you'll likely lose 10% fps but microstutters should be gone

[jovial patio]

If the game respects a Engine.ini change...

the game has EAC so I can't use UUU for MP.

Cheers.

[ocean hollow]

hmm I don't know, you can try putting it in the engine

or it might need to be baked into a pak

[jovial patio]

It uses custom UE 4.11 engine

[ocean hollow]

right, well, try looking for an engine.ini and let me know?

[jovial patio]

Engine.ini only contains following ignoring bit I've added

[WindowsApplication.Accessibility]
StickyKeysHotkey=False
ToggleKeysHotkey=False
FilterKeysHotkey=False
StickyKeysConfirmation=False
ToggleKeysConfirmation=False
FilterKeysConfirmation=False

[/Script/Engine.RendererSettings]
r.FinishCurrentFrame=1

[SystemSettings]
r.FinishCurrentFrame=1

main game settings appear to be in GameUserSettings.ini under [ScalabilityGroups] and [/Script/GearGame.GearGameUserSettings]

[ocean hollow]

just add it under system settings is fine

see if that helps?

[jovial patio]

there's no [SystemSettings] in the files

i tried adding it to both gameusersettings and Engine.ini but I'm not sure it's making a difference

[ocean hollow]

hmm okay, it's quite likely it's not reading them then

what's the game?

[jovial patio]

Gears 5

[ocean hollow]

there's almost no mods for it I think, so I doubt it will work

you could try making a section [ConsoleVariables] and put it under there but again, I doubt it

[ocean hollow]

Jedi Survivor is getting good feedback

[ocean hollow]

then the only way i know how is to enable a console and type it

[odd gulch]

when is the PC patch supposed to drop for survivor

[copper lynx]

"in the coming weeks" i believe the quote was

[jovial patio]

eta wen son

[ocean hollow]

just hack steam depot

[quiet oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/alert-frog-gif-15005995807871958954

[ocean hollow]

oooh nice logo

[next frost]

Does this mod have a way to disable the post process sharpening adjustment mentioned in the changes?

[solemn gorge]

Still no update, damn it.

[jovial patio]

coming weeks probably means 2 months lets be real its respawn

[solemn gorge]

True

[ocean hollow]

v2.6
Much smoother again...

• Reduced lighting and shadow pop-ins
• Fixed a texture-related hitch (tiled textures were trying to pre-tile, but it's too intensive for the non-Oodle streamer)
• Reduced face texture sharpness
• Increased texture loading speed
• Fixed a shader-related hitch
• Slightly improved fog
• Fixed stretched intro movie
• Fixed some grass shadows missing

[rocky hemlock]

https://www.ea.com/games/starwars/jedi/jedi-survivor/patch-notes

https://tenor.com/view/twin-peaks-its-happening-again-gif-9584457

Finally out of beta?

[sturdy fractal]

Denuvo DRM has been removed.

just in time for my GPU to bork. starting RMA process

[rocky hemlock]

I wonder if that's where those CPU optimizations are coming from

[rough moss]

We’re live folks

[dense thunder]

i think it was proven awhile ago denuvo doesn't impact performance

[jovial patio]

But do we will need sammis fix on top 🧐

[dense thunder]

even if im still personally skeptical of that. there's a lot of confirmation bias there though

[dense thunder]

sami's updates also change graphical quality and fidelity

and they are really nice changes

[jovial patio]

Well yes but if it don't work well with the new update

[dense thunder]

yeah no we'll see

[dense thunder]

lol, lmao

'we have reduced the load of ray tracing on the CPU'

[jovial patio]

On new update, DLSS version is: 3.1.13

Dont know if changed

[rocky hemlock]

Shitty phone recording but I didn't wanted recording to take any resources

https://tenor.com/view/you-crazy-son-of-a-bitch-you-did-it-jurassic-park-ian-malcolm-gif-16042346

It's not perfect but it's a massive improvement

[jovial patio]

Animation stutter gone?

[rocky hemlock]

No, the camera still skips frames in some places

[jovial patio]

3840x2160, 13700KF+4090
DLSS Quality, no frame gen, RT ON

Can lock to be about 80fps with relatively flat frame graph

RT is very heavy, can do 110FPS without

[rocky hemlock]

Memory utilization is still absurd, I need to drop textures to low at 1440p to fit into 12GB of VRAM

[jovial patio]

4K60 RT DLAA (with dips)
or
DLSS Q 110fps no RT

😫

Also couldn't get the shaders thing to pop up

[copper lynx]

Is this in the main village on Koboh? Pretty good if that's the case. On 1440p with a 4080 I had to use Frame gen to get acceptable framerate previously. I don't have the game installed right now so can't check out that patch yet.

But then of couse the hitching ruined the experience no matter what the framrate.

[rocky hemlock]

RT still trashes CPU performance (12600K is not enough for the stable 60fps on Koboh)

Probably won't be revisiting the game unlit I get 16gb card

[jovial patio]

Nah this is like the very beginning, in a room and then you go outside and knock troopers off a roof

Sammis fix is very broken with this update 😅

Textures were all muddy

[copper lynx]

Oh I see, that part of the game has always been running fine for me. It is Koboh where the real issues arrive.

[jovial patio]

Kinda wish I didn't upgrade lol
Sammis fix on the last version worked really well

For the start anyway, can't speak to the rest of the game

[ocean hollow]

well hi

they have actually fixed some things

PhysX, Blueprints, and frame time fixes

but they've also reduced particle light quality

most importantly they seem to have fixed the bug where per texture biases are being thrashed (queried too many times)

per texture biases aren't even used, afaik

i think i can actually work with this patch

[quiet oriole]

Bit annoying that quite some (in my opinion) toxic people on Steam forums and X seem to attribute the improved performance and reduced stuttering blindly to the removal of Denuvo...

Not realizing actually systematic issues within the game were the main cause of these issues

Some people are seemingly extremely biased because of their hatred for Denuvo

[ocean hollow]

yes... i'm not saying it doesn't have some impact... but i didn't notice a major difference with Hogwarts

[sturdy fractal]

No better placebos than self-validating ones

Well, maybe not placebos considering this is a performance upgrade, but people will believe what they want

[ocean hollow]

yes well the comparison videos I've seen th fps and stutters are basically.... the same

[dense thunder]

in terms of where jedi is, it honestly doesnt feel much different

sammi's work is still better then what they've cooked

[ocean hollow]

hmmmm making some progress. i'm getting crashes with DXGI_ERROR_INVALID_CALL. turning on debugging so i can see what's causing it

there's some weird changes they've made, i can't set a fixed pool size

and i don't think Denuvo has the performance cost it used to

why is this so crashy

[rocky hemlock]

The game still has problems with memory allocation, even on low textures and 1440p res with dlss I will eventually run out of VRAM when running around koboh

So most people are probably seeing VRAM related stutters

But before my memory gets flooded completely the game runs significantly better than before (see the video I posted earlier)

Before the ranch run would result in the major stutter every few steps no matter the settings

[ocean hollow]

yes and the command to limit the streamer pool to VRAM is now broken, so we have less control over this now too

I'll see if I can find a workaround

[ocean hollow]

I guess this also means it's not releasing memory or possibly not hitting garbage cleanup triggers. ty I'll look at this too

I've just got everything working, it took me a while to bifurcate the but with forcing the streamer pool to stay in vram. what a pain bc without this as soon as it goes over vram it will swap back to CPU memory which puts huge overhead on PCIe. anyway back to it tomorrow! 😂

[ocean hollow]

*bug not butt

[quiet oriole]

Sammi, stop making Star Wars dirty 😂

[jovial patio]

i still have no shader compilation at the start, no idea whats going on there, i had like a 5s pop up and then i've not seen it since

[rocky hemlock]

I had one as I did a clean driver install a day before but not since then
It's how it should be
they even said in the patch notes they fixed that

[jovial patio]

im mostly confused when it compiles them then

[jovial patio]

thank you for your tireless work 🙂

[quiet oriole]

Why is shader pre-compilation confusing in this case?

[jovial patio]

because i thought its done prior to the game launching but it popped up for like 5 seconds for me, so is the rest just done async?

[quiet oriole]

Some games have it done at boot/launch, some do async

[ocean hollow]

they have added r.ShaderPipelineCache.StartupMode= which is Precompilation is enabled in the 'Fast' mode ... it should work

but if not try this

[narrow wren]

So how is the patch anyway

[ocean hollow]

it's okay. they've done some things behind the scenes. they have actually analyzed the game and frame timings to see where the biggest hitches were, like garbage collection clustering, which i had tried to fix another way, they've done it better

and i suspect they've improved their ray tracing code/pipeline to remove the bottleneck we've talked about in the past, which i don't have any control over because we don't have source code

but there are still many things remaining causing frame time instability which i'll try and solve... for example grass has too many polgyons, so i've forced it to be +1 LOD (which you can't even see) to reduce polys. Respawn ray tracing doesn't seem to have a big problem with intersecting meshes from kitbashing (grass and trees which intersect the landscape usually cause rays to be recalculated more than once, which is BAD, but the Respawn engine doesn't seem to have a huge problem with this) ... however they do have an RT global illumination / transparency effect on grass and trees which is quite expensive... this is one of the big reasons Koboh grinds to a halt, especially up high... because the amount of vegetation gets dense. so i'm trying to reduce polys without modifying meshes. thankfully UE has the ability to bias mesh group LODs so this is easy

and there are several other settings they've left that are wrong, and cause frame time instability in late pipeline stages

if you want the technical explanation ... this is the problem

CPU memory > CPU (stall every 30MB or 100 requests) > PCIe > GPU memory (streamer pool) > GPU (never wait/stall) > GPU Scene (never wait) > screen (wait for scanline)

this is the UE default and it's WRONG

to go into why it's wrong i'd have to go into drum-buffer-rope from Theory of Constraints, but stalling a pipeline at the beginning is a really bad idea. you can do it, but it will be much harder to fully fix hammering/hitching/stuttering issues at the end of the pipeline, because they become amplified

what should happen is

CPU memory (always primed/ready and waiting for requests) > CPU (always primed) > PCIe (always primed) > GPU memory (always primed) > GPU (always primed) > GPU Scene > Screen (_pulls_ requests from the preceding queue)

this is a simple explanation of the problem ... it's pretty cheesy, but it fantastically explains it https://www.toc.tv/player/the-goal-movie-excerpt

in addition, what Respawn are doing is
CPU memory > CPU (stall every 30MB or 100 requests) > PCIe > GPU memory (streamer pool) > GPU (never wait/stall) > GPU Scene (never wait) > screen (wait for scanline)
and also
(try and sneak meshes (and hence textures) outside of this pipeline)

[rocky hemlock]

So-So

It's better than it was, still far from perfect

Memory usage seems to be the biggest issue now

[ocean hollow]

they enabled blueprint garbage collection clustering... look at my notes

the problem i have is... trying to optimize a game that's been optimized the wrong way 'round

i'd love to hear @sturdy fractal opinion on the drum buffer rope issue in terms of graphics pipelines, because you have far more experience with graphics pipelines i'm sure

i'm a systems engineer, so i see something like this and... how to explain
it's like taking 1000 cars on a highway, and starting and stopping the first car, then trying to make the 1000th car smooth... it doesn't make any sense

make the first car smooth!

[sturdy fractal]

it waits until buffer is full on CPU before piping to GPU?

[narrow wren]

Damn

Thanks

[sturdy fractal]

pix will tell you what shader specifically is taking longer per draw, but to catch a hitch is likely some CPU/GPU code choke. frame rate issues are much easier to target than "random" hitches

i'm stuck on cyberpunk nonsense again, so i'll have to read up what's going on here.

[ocean hollow]

yes... causing hammering in later pipeline stages

i need donuts for this work 🙄

[winter bone]

I see the ghosting issue with native HDR support and frame gen still isn't fixed 😩 . Is their any decent alternatives to the built in HDR support that don't cause issues with DLSS framegen?

[ocean hollow]

can you give a screenshot of the ghosting?

[rocky hemlock]

download the 1.0.7.0 DLL from https://www.techpowerup.com/download/nvidia-dlss-3-frame-generation-dll/ and use it to replace the one in the game's folder.

[ocean hollow]

also what's this about. why are LOD1 (i assume) textures so blurry?

i'm far too grumpy to be doing this 😂

[winter bone]

It isn't visible in screenshots for some reason, but can see the issue on this clip I took - https://youtu.be/7mZoqFnByDk

[ocean hollow]

everything epic with FG

(watching frame time)

[ocean hollow]

i can't even see the ghosting... i think i'm not sensitive to it

[winter bone]

Thanks, that fixed it.

[winter bone]

If it wasn't for Kobo I'd just leave framegen off, but that planet is inexplicably demanding. 😆

[ocean hollow]

it's because they're sideloading assets outside of the streamer

[ocean hollow]

RGGHHH i give up

no i don't really

CDPR break cyberpunk and Respawn break Survivor on the same day

but on the other hand, i have pizza

[sturdy fractal]

i have pizza too!

cdpr actually broke film grain in their game. that's why i couldn't find it where to inject my film grain

the patch needs a patch

[ocean hollow]

omg how!

do these people not do systemized regression testing?

i think i've fixed the crashes at least in survivor. i might just have to do a lightweight and visual only fix

[sturdy fractal]

https://www.diffchecker.com/SYZr3dih/ straight up missing. probably a DEFINE

[narrow wren]

what did cdpr break

[sturdy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-star-wars-prequels-how-embarrassing-gif-17423969

[ocean hollow]

HOW

https://tenor.com/cZESrBQb5Qu.gif

nope i didn't fix the crashes lol

[sturdy fractal]

yeah, my gpu actually broke. if you think debugging is hard, try on integrated intel graphics

https://tenor.com/view/skull-fall-skeleton-disappointed-gif-16704218997620936929

wait on the RMA response

[rocky hemlock]

Sounds like a typical CDPR experience

Except the next patch will break something else and will need another patch, which will brake something else...

[ocean hollow]

damn

dare me to send this to their HQ? 😂

[sturdy fractal]

i do screenshot diffs for my web components.

a big game like this should honestly have that super early in testing. a cmd line to start the game with a save (already exists), and take snapshot. diff

[ocean hollow]

100%

[sturdy fractal]

film_grain_off.png vs film_grain_on, with all the variations (fsr, none, dlss, etc)

[ocean hollow]

you would normally have automated testing in the form of unit tests and systemized tests (like you just said), manual regression testing (proceduralized), and freedom testing

[sturdy fractal]

also, discord is full of free beta testers

[ocean hollow]

yes!

[ocean hollow]

WHY are irises missing?!

or dilated rather

wtf

[ocean hollow]

I think I've got it running pretty good

[ocean hollow]

i keep finding hitches

[narrow wren]

nice

[ocean hollow]

if anyone wants to test progress so far

this will be a little slower than normal, i've increased raytracing samples from 1 to 2 because in several darker places there's a lot of flickering due to too few samples

several hitches are fixed, but it's not perfect

[quiet oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/i-tried-to-tell-you-but-you-wouldnt-listen-lucifer-morningstar-tom-ellis-lucifer-youre-not-interested-gif-17400293

😛

[solemn gorge]

Is the in game HDR good enough or can it be improved?

Ive just got a DisplayHDR 1000 monitor and i want some eye candy 😀

Also on my 7800xt - The central koboh area (around pyloons) is still stuttery,. Its definitely better but still enough to annoy 🤔

The other areas though are much much better.

[sturdy fractal]

How gracious. Also considering gigabyte appears to scam warranties, it doesn't seem like it would make a difference

F rating on BBB

[quiet oriole]

Battle for Bikini Bottom? What does that have to do with this?

[sturdy fractal]

Better Business Bureau (US)

[quiet oriole]

Wtf is that for a kind of name?

Sounds like a scam company

[sturdy fractal]

An acronym? bbb.org

[quiet oriole]

I liked Battle for Bikini Bottom more

[sturdy fractal]

In the US companies use it as a an accreditor for good business practices

[quiet oriole]

And is it just like every "stamp" that supposedly validates a business/brand/food's validity compleeeeetely objective?

[sturdy fractal]

No. Because people file complaints and the BBB logs them. Companies respond and accreditation is based on responding to customers and whether custom felt the were able to reach a solution. Companies can ask BBB to weigh in as well as third party

It doesn't take much to have a B.

[quiet oriole]

That sucks right? Push a bit and you get a good stamp...

[sturdy fractal]

Doesn't take much means actually respond to your customers

And not ghost them

[quiet oriole]

ah

[sturdy fractal]

Like I have a client who needs tech assistance with Vonage (a VOIP company) and I've called 6 times and none of the techs know what they're doing and ask me to leave voicemails on their departments. BBB complaint would light a fire under them. I'd do it, but I rather provide them VOIP myself and cut Vonage out completely.

Basically, BBB is like "we're going to review this custom transaction" so you know they're going to behave.

PayPal is similar with disputes

[ocean hollow]

using 3.2?

[solemn gorge]

Nope vanilla. Ill try it now 🤞

[ocean hollow]

it may be worse or better lol

because I've increased shadow draw distance

then again it could be better 🤔

it's definitely better or worse

[solemn gorge]

Quick run through the central area : stuttering is abit better but performance is much worse.

Performance worse compared to vanilla

[odd gulch]

So what's the verdict on the patch?

[ocean hollow]

I'll add the better ray tracing and shadows to the Video menu in the next version so you can turn that down

[ocean hollow]

it's still fairly broken, with a few fixes

[odd gulch]

Cool, so exactly what we predicted

🙂

[ocean hollow]

yes 🙄

I might try a different approach

damn this game is so good though

Jedi Games Emotional Support Group

Jedi Ultra+ and Emotional Support Group

[ocean hollow]

• fixed irises/pupils
• added most options to scalability (in-game Video/graphics menu)

[quiet oriole]

Do you know what caused the pupils to be always dialated?

What did they change likely that caused this regression?

[rocky hemlock]

Drugs

https://youtu.be/WSCm8yAxBr8?t=547

[ocean hollow]

• fixed shadow hitches
• enabled pre-streaming system (fixes more hitches)

[ocean hollow]

nope! it's fixed, but i don't know how either!

[ocean hollow]

Ko is correct, @quiet oriole was on drugs 😄

quick fix for potato textures at some quality levels

[quiet oriole]

How did you fix it?

[quiet oriole]

You lying b*tch, I wasn't on drugs... I still am 🥳

A mix of orange juice, aspirine, ketamine, XTC and a bit of coke is completely healthy right?

[ocean hollow]

• fix some white flashes
• improve rock/cliff shadows

[ocean hollow]

please share 😂

[jovial patio]

i noticed that the in the base game with no sammifix, slowly move the camera left and right and it seems to warp the textures on the edge of the screen. saw this indoors. like shadows going crazy, kind of hard to explain, wonder if sammi can fix that

[quiet oriole]

Isn't that the vignette?

Or the thing simulating a camera lense?

[jovial patio]

it was on a wall texture

it looked like a shadow warping around at 100x speed

perhaps some aggressive culling?

[jovial patio]

Could be the vignette I suppose

[shut relic]

maybe frame gen doesn't properly handle the vignette

if you use that

[ocean hollow]

it does. is it the anamorphic lens distortion? would help if you can give a screenshot

[jovial patio]

Frame gen wasn't on, I'll get a video

was more aggresive the other day and seemingly "caught" on shadow. can't reproduce that now but you can see this on left edge
this is vanilla game, no sammi fix

[quiet oriole]

That looks weird haha

[jovial patio]

Sorry had HDR on

[quiet oriole]

Brrrrr, never a good idea

[rocky hemlock]

That's culling

it has been doing that since the first patch

[jovial patio]

9 patches and they ain't fixed that shit? Incompetence

[rocky hemlock]

It's to reduce CPU usage

It's probably too aggressive tho

[jovial patio]

RT is so heavy in this, like ridiculously so

[rocky hemlock]

RT is always stupidly heavy in UE4

@ocean hollow can you add this?

r.MotionBlurQuality=4
r.MotionBlurSeparable=1
r.MotionBlur.Max=5
r.MotionBlurPerObjectSize=0.5
r.MotionBlur.TargetFPS=0```

[shut relic]

are those the best UE motion blur settings?

[rocky hemlock]

https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/correct-motion-blur-values-to-use/131392

https://tenor.com/view/technically-correct-the-best-kind-of-correct-gif-17815153

[jovial patio]

Can only just hit 4K60 DLAA RT with a 4090/13700kf

With dips

[rocky hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/woody-harrelson-wipe-money-rich-crying-into-my-money-gif-11801469

[quiet oriole]

Likely missing all the massive amounts of RT-optimizations in recent UE-versions and general recent RT-innovations

[ocean hollow]

i've fixed that

[narrow wren]

It's custom

[ocean hollow]

try this. motion blur separable was already added. i've added the maximum screen percentage amounts. the quality is conctrolled by graphics settings (maximum r.MotionBlurQuality=4)

[ocean hollow]

the culling white edges? no it's incompetence 😊

it's normal to increase occlusion boxes a bit to prevent this. it's partly Epic's fault for not having this as a default, but it's fairly easy to fix with no performance cost

[ocean hollow]

note: in 3.2.3

• anti-aliasing "Epic" should enable 2 samples for raytracing. this costs a fair bit but fixes most RT flickering in dark scenes

if you don't want that, reduce AA to High (it doesn't reduce AA 😊)

[jovial patio]

if there's anything that can be done to make RT less heavy that would be great lol
cries in 4090

[ocean hollow]

no unfortunately... but do lower AA to High if it's too heavy

i've made a few changes which save a few fps, but that's all we have control over, most of the ini settings make no difference to FPS

[ocean hollow]

if you're running at 4k you should generally use DLSDR and use DLSS performance

well that's annoying

RT samples aren't changed by graphics settings. choose your poison 😊

i've included 3 samples because it fixes ALL instances of flickering, but it costs a LOT. 2 fixes 90% of them

[ocean hollow]

got frametimes?

[jovial patio]

ill try 3 tomorrow, plus 4K DLAA 🙂

[dense thunder]

i will try 3 later! im in raid in WoW atm. thanks for the hard work sammi. also glad you're doing better

[ocean hollow]

you're welcome! 😊 thanks

[ocean hollow]

i enabled motion blur for frame gen, it's sooo nice

enabled motion blur for frame gen. other small tweaks and cleanups

[covert idol]

so on nexus it says to place in swgame/paks, but that folder is in swgame/content/paks. Is it a typo or do we have to make a paks folder there?

ah, seems the full path is in the actual instructions, guess that answers that

[ocean hollow]

oh, oops, that's just a typo

ty, fixed 😊

[covert idol]

lol, np

I'm seeing some black splotching on the ground

southern reach meditation point on koboh

I just booted it up with the mod so idk if this is anywhere else

this is with 3.3.0 above

[ocean hollow]

do you have any other mods installed?

it looks like a post process/alpha channel bug but I don't modify that

[covert idol]

no, I do have special k injected though

I can try without that

didn't fix it. But uh, in-game vsync isn't working either. Maybe my install is fucked someway, lemme verify that...

I'll just reinstall

I'll get back to you one 130 GB download later lol

[ocean hollow]

okay 😊

hmm I think RT is using standard PSO caching

[covert idol]

okay yeah still seeing that splotching with the mod installed, gone when it's not. Also vsync is broken only with the mod

nothing else installed or injected

maybe I need to clear shader cache

same result

idk why it would differ but this is with the EA launcher version (game pass)

black splotching gone with 3.2.3, vsync still broken though

[ocean hollow]

vsync is no longer used with DirectX Flip presentation 😊

it will automatically sync to the frame draws

[covert idol]

without forcing in special k I was getting screen tear and framerates higher than my screen though, so something seems screwed up still

[quiet oriole]

Uhm, what do you mean? 🙂

[ocean hollow]

vsync is deprecated

look up DirectX Flip presentation 😊

[covert idol]

everything I know about directx flip presentation suggest vsync is still an important part of it tbh 🤔

[quiet oriole]

Deprecated doesn't mean it no longer works or is used. It still functions in every game the way it should right?

[covert idol]

I could be misunderstanding some semantics about frame synchonization though

[ocean hollow]

most games won't use it any more

[quiet oriole]

Why does every game that releases still have this option?

[ocean hollow]

god donkey why is post process running as a compute shader 🤔

i didn't tell it to

I don't know why they still support it

you can override it in the per game settings in Nvidia or AMD control panel

[covert idol]

I guess you encountered the issue too lol

[ocean hollow]

yes 😂

something I've changed has forced the post processing to run as a compute (CPU) shader

which doesn't work because it doesn't have access to alpha

fixed

okay. if this works, the ray tracing is a LOT faster

IF it works

this is 3 samples per pixel, with full caching enabled

(and fixed the alpha issue)

it's working here but it's night time

[jovial patio]

i am also a bit confused what this means

[quiet oriole]

Yeah, suspect Sammi is mistaken here this rare time

[jovial patio]

Vsync is required for proper gsync support

[jovial patio]

btw jedi survivor launches twice through the EA app, even without SK injected
absolute garbage software
check it's not running 2 game instances when testing, cause it seems completely random

[lusty dock]

how is the new patch?

The release notes mention that the gameplay is smoother and that they fixed a lot of the hitching and stuttering

is it true? lol

[jovial patio]

better than before, although sammi's fix before the update worked well

[jovial patio]

The RT is the main source of the bad framepacing in this game tbh. I can do 4K60 DLAA with flat frametimes without RT.

Can do DLSS quality at like 90FPS lock.

[lusty dock]

Yea RT is heavy on the CPU too

[jovial patio]

too heavy even on a 13700kf

[ocean hollow]

"a lot". they fixed a PhysX hitch, a shader hitch, and a garbage collection hitch. 3 hitches. there were also shadow hitches, mesh building hitches, other shader compilation hitches, other garbage collection hitches, and ray tracing hitches that were not touched

[ocean hollow]

no, they're not the same. they both sync to vertical scanlines. let me explain.

VSync

1. GPU renders a frame
2. GPU waits for the monitor to finish scanning the old frame (for the "scanline" to be ready to start a new frame")
3. GPU "presents the frame, synchronized with the top of the monitor "scanline"
4. GPU starts rendering the second frame. GPU waits for the monitor to be ready for the next frame

in this mode, the GPU waits for some percentage of the monitor frame. this doesn't necessarily show as lower GPU usage percent, because GPU % measuring is not so simple. frame presentation is synchronous. sometimes a single frame is presented for 2 monitor refreshes, because the GPU was waiting. the GPU has to be frame-locked to the monitor. as we know, VSync often costs 20 or 30% fps.

DirectX Flip presentation

1. GPU renders a frame
2. frame is held in a buffer waiting for the monitor to finish the previous frame, GPU starts on 2nd frame
3. monitor finishes scanning the previous frame, displays already completed 2nd frame
4. GPU finished 3rd frame to the first buffer
5. monitor flips to the 3rd frame

in this scenario, there is no performance loss, and the GPU is always running at full speed. also, two other things can happen:

1. the GPU can often present the next frame at e.g. 90% of the monitor scanline (a little in advance of the next frame), without the user noticing (I'm doing this in Jedi)
2. the monitor can change its scan rate (Hz) to sync with the GPU

both methods are sync'd to the vertical sync. the old method is very inefficient, and doesn't support fsync/freesync.

wait, what? but vsync does support gsync/freesync?!

no it doesn't. using VSync, a few things commonly happen:

1. the same frame is displayed twice
2. the GPU stops and waits for the next frame
3. the monitor syncs to the GPU (ideal)

it's much more difficult to get right.

the first two cause unstable frame time (which you may not see, but you feel it).

those things don't happen with Flip.

probably the easiest way to think of DX Flip, is it's like triple buffer. it's more efficient than triple buffer, but it's a very similar idea

old VSync sucks

enable vertical sync in the AMD/Nvidia control panel, and use DX flip. most new games come with DX flip (and if your monitor has variable refresh rate, will not tear when VSync is disabled)

did you guys try the 3.3 ray tracing?

it's working really well here... except after an hour or so of playing the game starts to crap itself and needs a PC restart. I'll see what I can do

(and I've needed to restart my whole PC... which is super weird)

[covert idol]

I appreciate the technical explanation, but surely vsync is used as an anachronism then? flip model has presentation intervals, right? Presentation interval 1 being ideal. All I'm saying is on my non-vrr screen I'm getting screen tear and no frame synchronization unless I force it via sk or the driver, which isn't ideal. I can force it, it's not a big issue to me, it just seems like good behavior for the end user to make that vsync toggle work as expected is all.

[ocean hollow]

yes i can probably enable the old behaviour

yes UE 4.27 allows flip to be enabled separately

(4.21 did not)

so for Survivor i can enable both... Fallen Order - not (with Flip enabled, you have to force vsync in the GPU CP) 😜

[covert idol]

being dx12, isn't flip the only way it can work anyway?

then again devs manage to add exclusive fullscreen to dx12 so who knows

[ocean hollow]

no..

it requires the game to support it i believe

a game can also do whatever they want, really..

[covert idol]

gotcha lol

[ocean hollow]

tbh this is actually becoming a lot simpler on Linux, which is getting really good and fairly universal support for VRR (variable refresh rate)... games just tend to work even without explicit support for it, because they're rendering to Linux's framebuffer, which handles the VRR transparently

you can mess around on windows and hopefully get a game smooth... but then on a really new build of Linux, it's just smooth to start with. like, crazy smooth

and the other thing that's happened is VRR monitors have mainstream support. the experience is so much better on them, in general

[covert idol]

does linux vrr support work on multiple monitors yet?

and normally I'm hooked up to a vrr monitor, I just have my pc out at an older LG OLED right now lol

[ocean hollow]

i think it does for either the latest Gnome or KDE (i can't remember which, but "one of them" just got support i think)

you can also run a game on gamescope

(which can do DLSDR type stuff)

[covert idol]

hmmmm that makes me kinda interested in trying out linux again on my main rig 🤔

that was the deal breaker for me in the past

[ocean hollow]

yes i'm super curious to see how Survivor runs under (Linux) Vulkan, too

i wiped my Linux i'm about to reinstall it

[quiet oriole]

But if this is all really true, then why?:

• Does Vsync in all games still make a difference seemingly and is still included in all games as an option?
• What you describe as step 3 of the flip presentation model results in tearing right? As it starts displaying a frame what was completed before the previous one got fully displayed? Isn't that exactly what VRR and/or Vsync are made to combat?

Or is the Vsync toggle kinda "hacked" in into games using the flip model to make users able to turn this vsync behavior off to allow for VRR?

[ocean hollow]

• i think the confusing thing here is the naming. Flip includes vertical synchronisation by design. both methods have vertical synchronisation. but VSync is the name for the old presentation tech. confusing!... i much prefer Linux's naming which is basically VSync or VRR...
• that is the question ... if you display a little early, usually the user doesn't notice. some sensitive users might. if any tearing happens it's right at the bottom of the screen so out of the central vision. this has to do with what's called "fovea" .. the highly sensitive part of the retina, which is actually seeing ... a lot of the vision around that area isn't necessarily what you think you see, the brain partly constructs it based on what it's expecting to see. so you can often hide things in it. this is similar to what illusionists/magicians do

complex topic 😜

[jovial patio]

It's worth remembering that Windows 10 and 11 can already convert games to flip model by default with windowed optimisations although I don't think that's the case for DX12

[quiet oriole]

But you can also have flip model without vertical synchronisation right?

[ocean hollow]

no..

DX Flip is a specification... afaik the specification includes sync

[ocean hollow]

i wonder why there seems to be so much conflicting information on whether window optimisation helps or makes things worse

i thought window optimisations was to do with multiplane overlay... but i actually don't know

[jovial patio]

https://wiki.special-k.info/en/SwapChain#flip-model

https://wiki.special-k.info/en/SwapChain#multi-plane-overlay-mpo

[quiet oriole]

So the flip model is thus disabled when people disable the "vsync" option in-game?

[ocean hollow]

now i'm trying to make the game run with the oodle 9 dll 😂

i think it's actually an improvement

[quiet oriole]

Does the game use an older version of the oodle compression library then? Is the game really forward compatible by just dropping in a newer dll?

[ocean hollow]

yes

• increased pak cache from 128MB to 512MB
• disabled DLSS auto-exposure, hopefully reduces ghosting
• disabled shader draw debugging (probably not enabled in shipping, but who knows)
• enabled thread resuscitation
• disabled multi-threaded GC as it's hitchy
• disabled forcing DX Flip presentation
• reduced PSO cache size back to 100, 150 causes memory issues
• enabled lazy loading of shaders, hopefully should work now PSO cache is configured correctly (but may hitch first time as user PSO cache is built)

[quiet oriole]

Is there any public documentation regarding just dropping in a newer oodle dll and if that is really supported without any issues? Where do you see improvements with it?

[jovial patio]

I'd like to know what vsync on and off means with the mod too

[quiet oriole]

I think it doesn't change this behavior

[ocean hollow]

the same as vanilla

i think you're overthinking it

[jovial patio]

But directx 12 games requires flip, so I don't understand what you're forcing on

[ocean hollow]

i'm not............

[jovial patio]

Pre 3.4.0 I mean

[ocean hollow]

i'm tired of talking about it so i've stopped doing it

[jovial patio]

Ok

[quiet oriole]

It is not important for this mod anyways...

[ocean hollow]

exactly 😊

• Hopefully fixed issue for low VRAM (4 and 6GB) due to conflicting settings I'd missed

this is the latest oodle 9 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18RkiVETjooHxqBhlCWRi7cDcoKuconhu?usp=drive_link in theory it's allowed to be distributed but only for use with UE... so afaik okay to distribute

[jovial patio]

are the eyes meant to be like that? i have no idea 😄

[lusty dock]

ah yes this game is the worst when it comes to VRR flicker

[ocean hollow]

• attempt #2 at fixing textures not streaming with low vram

[ocean hollow]

no....

[deep sonnet]

I've always heard of that, but never really noticed until I played this game. Haha.

[odd gulch]

One good thing about not using VRR is I never have the flicker, haha

of course the downsides.......

[gentle forge]

can limiting the FPS resolve some of the flicker? Helps in Cyberpunk and Alan Wake 2

[lusty dock]

nope lol

frametime is never 100% stable

even when the framerate is rock stable the flickering still happens

[gentle forge]

ooof ok

[lusty dock]

it's a lot less noticeable at higher framerates though

locked 60 looks bad

[gentle forge]

im gonna try and pick this game up soon

[gentle forge]

whhaaa

that sucks

[lusty dock]

Sammi's mod helps a lot but it can't fix it unfortunately

[gentle forge]

sounds like a terrible optimization job... or skipped over it completely

Ive seen worse though recently

[lusty dock]

yup and I bought it day one...

it used to be super broken

I loved fallen order even with the stuttering issues

[gentle forge]

denvu nonsense yeah

[lusty dock]

but this game is soo much worse

[lusty dock]

nah denuvo was removed

it's still a mess

lol

[gentle forge]

maybe I'll just wait lol but HDR looks soooooo good

[lusty dock]

oh yea the game looks amazing imo

except the light sabers ofc

[gentle forge]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-thinking-contemplating-pondering-chin-gif-4540781

[lusty dock]

weirdly saturated lightsaber cores

I want WHITE cores

[gentle forge]

didnt I see a movie accurate lightsabers mod recently

[lusty dock]

yea

[gentle forge]

welp im getting ahead of myself, I dont have the game yet but just lining my ducks in a row for when I buy it

[lusty dock]

I guess it's HDR what messes up the saber colors

[gentle forge]

very possible

try it

[lusty dock]

I will

[ocean hollow]

i'm not seeing any, but i'm not on OLED..

[ocean hollow]

this is why i was setting GTSync to 2

r.GTSyncType | Int32 | 0 | 0x0 (SetByConstructor)
        Determines how the game thread syncs with the render thread, RHI thread and GPU.
        Syncing to the GPU swap chain flip allows for lower frame latency.
         0 - Sync the game thread with the render thread (default).
         1 - Sync the game thread with the RHI thread.
         2 - Sync the game thread with the GPU swap chain flip (only on supported platforms).

it's the most stable option once you've made frame time stable

[lusty dock]

Oh nice! I would not consider the game "playable" without your mod, it's a lot more stable with it.

Thank you! 🙏

[ocean hollow]

you're welcome ❤️ ... with 4.0.1 i'm getting really stable frame times now

there's still a few hitches i haven't figured out

[jovial patio]

RT seems unstable no matter the framerate. I cannot get RT on with flat frametimes even capped at a really low framerate.

[lusty dock]

yea the same

but I want to play with RT on

[ocean hollow]

what GPU do you have?

and what CPU?

[jovial patio]

13700KF / 4090 / DDR4 3600 32GB RAM

[ocean hollow]

is Control Flow Guard disabled for JediSurvivor.exe? and is the JediSurvivor.exe and game folder and shader cache folders excluded from AV scanning?

[quiet oriole]

Were these conclusions added by default for you after installing the game?

Sure it wasn't done manually by you or by a mod?

[lusty dock]

you have to disable CFG manually

If I remember correctly, it's recommended to disable it for DX12 games

[quiet oriole]

Source?

As the performance costs of these security options have changed a lot over the years

Not to be annoying, but you could be right actually

[lusty dock]

forums like guru3d or blur buster, it could be a placebo not sure

I think it really helped FF7 remake's DX12 mode

[quiet oriole]

Wish that reputable news outlets would research things like this

[jovial patio]

Probably not. I already disabled core isolation.

[jovial patio]

Shouldn't there be a way to have the game do that if that's the case?

[ocean hollow]

it's all manual. i'm not aware of any game that adds them. but you always should

and it's important to exclude both the folder AND the exe, because most AV hooks those separately, so if either one is used, it will be scanned

[quiet oriole]

In general?; poor advise as it is there to improve the security of Windows....

[ocean hollow]

i.e. it's an OR not an XOR

you can see my full guide here (Full Troubleshooting) https://www.nexusmods.com/starwarsjedisurvivor/mods/236

which really applies to all games

[ocean hollow]

me 😂

(CFG may not help all games, it depends on how they're made)

also if you have AMD, i believe the advice i still to disable core isolation

[quiet oriole]

Please don't people, it basically disables a very important part of the security of Windows itself

[jovial patio]

Frames tho

[quiet oriole]

Even if it gives you a tiny bit of performance, sacrificing your security for it is worth nothing

[jovial patio]

Fine I'll turn it back on 😛

[quiet oriole]

Newer hardware and improvements within Windows also reduced the performance impact of these security features by a lot

These older Reddit posts about it are hugely speculative and often hugely outdated

[narrow wren]

wasn't core isolation off by default before?

[quiet oriole]

But from what I remember they optimized it a lot through one of the Windows 10 feature updates and then decided to enable it by default as it improved security

[jovial patio]

tested with ~UltraPlus_v3.2.3_1RTSample_P.pak
SK injected DLSS 3.7.1
SK forced vsync on (game off)
3840x2160p, DLSS Balanced, limited to 60FPS via SK

and RTX on

you can see the ships being all juddery

[ocean hollow]

• completely reworked audio renderer (it was causing hitches, too)

intense combat frame times (no FG)

now to fix the textures issue 🤔

[quiet oriole]

How do you do something like that btw without access to the source code or project files?

[ocean hollow]

API access (CVars)

; ----- audio -----
; command audiomemreport
AudioThread.EnableAudioThreadWait=1            ; (1)
au.DisableParallelSourceProcessing=0        ; (1) enable async source processing
au.FlushAudioRenderThreadOnGC=0                ; (0)
au.ForceRealtimeDecompression=0                ; (0) 0=force decompression on load, 1=force realtime while playing
au.NumPrecacheFrames=128                    ; (0) default is 256 or ~5 seconds at 50 fps
au.RenderThreadPriority=1                    ; (0) 0=normal, 1=above normal, 2=below normal, 3=highest, 4=lowest, 5=slightly below normal, 6=time critical
au.UnderrunTimeoutMSec=5                    ; (5)
au.WaitForSoundWaveToLoad=0                    ; (1) TRY 0 - don't wait for USoundWave
au.adpcm.ADPCMReadFailiureTimeout=64        ; (64) try 64 times?
au.nrt.RenderEveryTick=0                    ; (1) TRY why would you call RenderAudio every single tick??
au.nrt.RenderFrameSize=128                    ; (256) TRY number of frames to render in a single callback
au.streamcache.BlockOnChunkLoadCompletion=1                ; (0) CPU memory and CPU is not a concern
au.streamcache.DispatchToGameThreadOnChunkRequest=0        ; (1) TRY 0
au.streamcache.SoundWaveDefaultLoadingBehavior=1        ; (0) TRY, or 2
au.streamcache.priming.BypassRetainFromSoundCues=1        ; (0)
au.streamcache.priming.PrimeDelayNodes=1                ; (0)
au.streamcache.priming.PrimeRandomNodes=1                ; (0)
au.streamcaching.BlockForPendingLoadOnCacheOverflow=1    ; (0)
au.streamcaching.PrimeSoundOnAudioComponents=1            ; (0)
au.streamcaching.StreamCacheSizeOverrideMB=512            ; (0.0) what's the default??

the defaults in UE 4.27 are fine for 8 year old computers

they're terrible for todays computers

(defaults are in brackets)

[jovial patio]

same test with 4.1.0 beta, rtx off

rtx on

[ocean hollow]

yes and no. core isolation is very important if you don't keep your PC patched. but it's only one part of the security stack. i would consider it important if 1) you fail to not click on suspicious things, 2) you fail to keep the PC patched

[ocean hollow]

yes... you're not really going to know until you're in Koboh and running around and fighting things though

[jovial patio]

honestly i dont think the RT is fixable at this point, incredibly cursed implementation 😄

[ocean hollow]

i mean, you can see my frame times in the screenshots above, which are very stable with RT on 2 samples

i think it depends on whether you're focused on getting perfect frame times, or actually playing the game

[jovial patio]

its probably just a UE4 RT thing

my eyes are just sensitive to stutter tbh and you can see the ships in my rtx on video juddering around

[ocean hollow]

no, it's not at all. Survivor doesn't use UE's ray tracing

[ocean hollow]

here you go, try this

you will lose 15% of FPS

[jovial patio]

that is the version i tested..

[ocean hollow]

no it's a special version for you

[jovial patio]

oh

[ocean hollow]

you need to remember, i am not optimising for 1% lows. it's pointless to try. i'm trying to balance between visual quality and frame stability.. very different goal

[jovial patio]

ok fair, brb

[quiet oriole]

But pull out a part of a stack and whole thing can collapse

[ocean hollow]

depends which part you pull out

by far the most important is not falling for scams, not going to dodgy websites, and keeping the OS patched

[jovial patio]

rtx off

rtx on

rtx off = 60fps cap
rtx on = 50fps cap to hold fps (couldnt hold 60)

still juddery ships with rt, i'm just going to play without 🙂

[ocean hollow]

i wonder how they're animating the ships 🤔

[jovial patio]

Dno but it's seems super broken with RT

[ocean hollow]

i'm not going to argue with you, i'm just going to do this

https://tenor.com/5SOj.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVlTeIATBs

there is also still shader compilation instability entering new areas 🤔 everywhere else i'm running around like a lunatic and FT is completely flat

[ocean hollow]

i suspect the shader batch size is still too big. WHY did Respawn choose a shader batch size of 520? ... how did they come up with this number?

[ocean hollow]

mmm mochi

[copper lynx]

Is it just me or are pupils still dilated? Cal looks freaky as shit whenever a cinematic shows him up close.

[dense thunder]

okay. it

took jedi survivor away from me?

i can still launch it via the ea app

well, not from the app itself

okay. there we go. bizarre. anyways, trying it now - textures look fantastic again. environment. far more smooth then vanilla patch 9

i have a 4090/13900K myself - i use RT. i do not play at 4k DLAA, though

if you can get it feeling better then this, i probably won't notice much personally. some of the traversal stutters? this is a playable experience. it looks good, too. 2 RT count

good lord this game guzzles memory, huh. this makes me wanna go 48G

[ocean hollow]

yes i haven't exactly told it to use less memory 😂 ... some of the defaults aren't actually clear from Epic's documentation like audio cache ... 0 = use default. what's the default? i don't know but UE 4.0 was released in 2014 i think, so "whatever was sensible 10 years ago. probably 16 MB. so i just go "okay, give it 512 MB ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ocean hollow]

shh

if they are.... HOW !?

also, i forgot 4.1 is using DLSS preset E

[ocean hollow]

hmm

[ocean hollow]

oops i missed restricting shader precompilation

which by default has... however much time UE wants

[ocean hollow]

HOW are the eyes broken again 😭

[rocky hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-james-cocaine-gif-19790336

[ocean hollow]

seriously, it was fixed in 3.2.3 wasn't it?

[ocean hollow]

i seriously don't know! are we sure it's not a vanilla bug?

[lusty dock]

it’s off by default and it does hurt CPU performance

[quiet oriole]

That's ok, but I would like to request from now on to not give as a general advice to people to completely disable it as it can put users at an increased security risk in the hunt of a tiny bit of performance 🙂

[quiet oriole]

In later versions of Windows 10 and in Windows 11 it is on by default

It uses virtualization, hence why Windows 11 increased the system requirements to only list CPUs with hardware acceleration for virtualization 🙂

[lusty dock]

Hmm I wanted to disable it and it was off on win 11

[quiet oriole]

To make sure it impacts performance as little as possible

[quiet oriole]

Is Windows 11 really supported on your hardware?

As in the upgrade wasn't forced?

[lusty dock]

its a fresh install and yes ofc

[quiet oriole]

Weird, possible that you ever disabled it yourself as a part of a guide?

[lusty dock]

I mean fresh as one year old

[lusty dock]

nope

I think that it was enabled in my older win10 installation

and I had to disable it

but it was off in win11

[quiet oriole]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/core-isolation-e30ed737-17d8-42f3-a2a9-87521df09b78 In most cases memory integrity is on by default in Windows 11, and can be turned on for Windows 10. Maybe you had a driver that was incompatible with the memory integrity part of it?

[quiet oriole]

That likely stuck during the upgrade

[lusty dock]

Again, I did not upgrade

Whole new PC

[quiet oriole]

Ah, then I suspect an incompatible driver or something

[lusty dock]

but it doesnt really matter tbh

maybe, not sure

But I wanted to disable it anyways haha

[quiet oriole]

This, Reddit is already filled with advice on disabling many security features blindly... don't want that happening here too

[quiet oriole]

Probably based on claims about huge performance gains with it off?

[lusty dock]

It does increase CPU performance its not a placebo, it does impact the security of your PC sure, but it’s not likely to cause issues unless you are specifically targeted

Never store important/sensitive data on your gamer PC imo, use a secure NAS or other server and have a second offline backup of your stuff too

[quiet oriole]

But it has been optimized so much, and is accelerated by hardware, so the cost is minimal. And quite curious how everyone is so sure it isn't doing much for them; would assume a yet undocumented virus could be contained a bit by it not having direct memory access to Windows.

[lusty dock]

Well I would not recommend people to touch any of these settings if they are not power users

[quiet oriole]

Agree

[lusty dock]

Its very hard to get viruses if you are careful

I mean people can decide on the risks they want to take. I Dont have a third party AV installed on my gamer PC either

My laptop is fully secure

but I use that for work

[quiet oriole]

Till you ever by accent DO download something...

Idk, having your device secure under the mantel "I'm just not gonna get a virus" is ehhhhhhh in my opinion haha

[lusty dock]

btw if you sont have SVN enabled then core isolation is off by default

[quiet oriole]

But I'm ok with people's view on this, as long as you don't give the blind advice to everyone to disable it too 🙂

[quiet oriole]

SVN?

[lusty dock]

secure virtual machine

bios setting

if you disable it virtualization is disabled

you cant use software which require virtualization

[quiet oriole]

Hence windows disables Core Isolation as a whole, as it otherwise would have to emulate its function, which slows down Windows

[lusty dock]

yea

[quiet oriole]

So, please don't disable this, anyone hahaha

[lusty dock]

SVN was disabled in my bios by default so yea thats it

[quiet oriole]

Ah, then it is a BIOS issue as that should definitely be on by default

[lusty dock]

or not doesnt really matter

the windows installer does not warn you about it

[quiet oriole]

We're starting to talk in circles now haha

[lusty dock]

you are more paranoid than the rest of the power users which is not a bad thing I guess, but you are not goong to convince power users to enable something which degrades performance imo

or to not disable it

I agree that casual PC users should bot touch anything in the bios or anywhere tbh

[quiet oriole]

Paranoid?; just want our users not to blindly disable it without knowing the risks. So, I tried to outline those. Everything good right?

[lusty dock]

No one said that there are no risks but we just dont care haha

I know that people don’t follow best practices, and they store everything in an unprotected folder and that they have full admin rights all the time

[quiet oriole]

That is muuuuuuuchhhh worse than what we are talking about... no AV or security measure is gonna protect against that

Haha

[lusty dock]

Nothing protects against stupidity

Nothing surprises me anymore, I was part sysadm for 15+ years lol

My old boss asked me to disable UAC on their home PC because it was annoying

[dense thunder]

i shut it off and i don't really care for it. that said - im pretty sure if you want to guarantee it is off, you need to check bios settings

lmao

i get that

[quiet oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/amen-anchorman-will-ferrell-gif-10865461

[quiet oriole]

At my previous work (quit two weeks back) they often ran outdated unsupported versions of Windows 10 on their spare laptops...

Also forced Windows 11 on non-supported devices

[quiet oriole]

Causing those crappy old laptops to slowdown even more in order to emulate the proper virtualization features

And yeah, you definitely can use those in combination with crappy unknown teachers and students hahahaha

[quiet oriole]

Core isolation is a Windows feature, disabling virtualization in BIOS is not a good idea as without it, if you enable core isolation, you get huge slowdown of your OS

IF you want to disable Core isolation, just disable memory integrity and you should be golden 🙂 Wouldn't touch the BIOS settings for this.

[quiet oriole]

They also neglected to update any BIOS of any system they owned themselves as a school, missing out on sooo many fixes regarding issues and security; the automatic update tool from Dell craps it pants 80% of the time, but they simply did not care at my previous work.

Regarding things that slow down games; from what I've seen at DF quite a few times, Hyper Threading actually slows down many games....

Hence why Intel is gonna release CPUs without hyper threading I assume

@lusty dock Do you have hyper threading disabled by default?

[lusty dock]

no

But I do disable virtual cores per-
game basis

[quiet oriole]

Ah, through the taskmanager?

Smart

But you leave HT enabled by default because you need it for non-gaming applications?

[lusty dock]

yea and there is an app which does it automatically

[quiet oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/sherlock-benedict-cumberbatch-gif-18635633

[lusty dock]

yea I have it enabled for rendering for example and it also helps with shader compilation

[lusty dock]

I cant remember the name of the app I’m at work haha

[lusty dock]

and it can increase performance in games too, depends on the engine

[quiet oriole]

Yeah, totally valid cases for having it enabled, sad that Intel and AMD seemingly didn't work out how games should handle HT/SMT properly

[quiet oriole]

Give me the info at end of day or I'll eeeeeend you (pretty please 😉 )

[quiet oriole]

Do games actually utilize HT?

[lusty dock]

It can improve 1% lows on AMD platforms not sure about intel

[ocean hollow]

sorry, no.

it costs between 0 percent performance and 30%, depending on factors that don't seem to be understood. it's up to individuals to make their own informed decisions on security, since security is about balancing usability with security

[quiet oriole]

Hmmm, wish there was much proper testing done regarding this by proper outlets

[quiet oriole]

Agree, but as the factors don't seem to be understood, maybe good then to be cautious and just share you own experiences, but maybe best to not give it out as a general advice to others 🙂

[ocean hollow]

I'm a security consultant, and known in some circles as a hacker, so I'm well equipped to give security advice. I realise this is your discord, but I believe I've always given balanced advice

in the case of stuff.mkv, I was taking a diagnostic step. I hadn't even gotten to the point of advising anything

[quiet oriole]

Well, as long as you don't give out general advice regarding this, I'm ok with it.

[ocean hollow]

in diagnostics, you need to determine "what is changed, unique, or different". we know core isolation can cause issues on some platforms (even if we don't know why)

there's general advice on all my mods mrtnptrs...

[quiet oriole]

In this Discord I meant

[ocean hollow]

it's a little bit difficult for me to determine what you consider general advice. I recommend disabling control flow guard for games, which you didn't seem to have a problem with

I'm not being argumentative, I just don't think I can actually follow your guidance

[quiet oriole]

If you only add it as a game-specific exception to SP-games only, nothing should really go askew

If the game is reputable

[ocean hollow]

but if I was writing malware, I could masquerade as a game exe

in fact knowing people exclude games, that's exactly what I'd do

[quiet oriole]

True, but that chance is so much more less likely causing a risk than disabling whole security features as a whole

[ocean hollow]

I think this argument is pointless, tbh. I'm mature enough to say when I don't have knowledge on a topic. I have significant knowledge on security

[quiet oriole]

Whatever you may think, please abide by this please as I don't want users to possibly be guided into a security risk

[ocean hollow]

🤷‍♀️

I think you should discuss this with ShortFuse.

and my general advice is if you want a secure system, use Fedora.

I'll see you for now

[quiet oriole]

Why specifically ShortFuse btw?

[ocean hollow]

I'm taking this to DMs

[jovial patio]

So core isolation on or off 🤜🤛🤔

[quiet oriole]

From what Sammi said, it is likely that it could bring a performance-gain on AMD CPUs especially, but public data is inconsistent, seemingly differs per game and hardware and disabling it will impact the security of your device. Microsoft recommends it to stay on.

Up to people themselves if they want to disable it or not

Their very own choice

[dense thunder]

wow. the frame gen implementation in this game is still so so rough

[ocean hollow]

most of the time disabling core isolation won't make any difference, you should leave it on

[rose knoll]

is it still completely broken with hdr?

[ocean hollow]

yes sometimes it breaks and goes all flickery

[ocean hollow]

working here

[dense thunder]

the UI is still very uh. rough

i do have HDR on

[rose knoll]

if it is the usual issue, r.Streamline.TagUIColorAlpha 0 should work around the bug

ui composite mode was discarding ui alpha in hdr so the dlss plugin would treat the entire screen as ui

[dense thunder]

ooh ill give that a whirl, thanks

[rocky hemlock]

#1236636890543689759 message
You can try this too

[rose knoll]

it was definitely the case when they added official framegen. not sure which patch tho

[rose knoll]

yeah, that also works because that dll is old enough to not use the optional ui texture

[ocean hollow]

hmm, maybe i should add this to U+ ?

[rose knoll]

depends if they fixed the ui shader so it doesnt discard alpha

[ocean hollow]

i'll add it to my list to try

it's also because alpha isn't maintained on compute shaders in UE

[rose knoll]

but, like, it is really broken if it is the case so i'm surprised you wouldn't have noticed

[ocean hollow]

mm... i haven't been running with FG enabled because it gives misleading frame time data

[rose knoll]

https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/pull/11616

[dense thunder]

it definitely does give misleading frame time data, yeah

but if you intend on playing its not awful

barring the shortcomings

[ocean hollow]

nice 😊

on the topic of Core Isolation... this patch includes improved AMD branch prediction, which improves core isolation performance by ~10% ... apparently ... Microsoft seems to have forgotten to include this information in the patch notes, because they're bad engineers 😕 https://catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=kb5041587

[rose knoll]

i guess we won't be seeing the issue anymore in a few years, at least 😔

[ocean hollow]

24H2 should also include the fix

[ocean hollow]

which issue?

[rose knoll]

the broken framegen in hdr

[quiet oriole]

Thanks for messaging me through DM. This whole thing was apparently based on a misinterpertation of a message by me.

[ocean hollow]

oh! ... yes ... your patch looks like it was only several months ago, too

idk why they don't pass alpha to the compute shaders for post processing either. postprocess could be done on the CPU

but then shaders are not really my field

[rose knoll]

yeah i'm not even sure it is in 5.4

https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealEngine/blob/release/Engine/Shaders/Private/CompositeUIPixelShader.usf it's not even here smh

5.5 i guess

[ocean hollow]

i suppose all this time i've been complaining about UE's wrong default settings, i could have just been contributing to their git?

[rose knoll]

i guess, but good luck getting your changes merged any time soon. pumbo used dev channels to get attention to this pr

otherwise it'd probably still hang there unnoticed

[jovial patio]

they finally did the YFOV merge though right? 🥳

[ocean hollow]

UI seems to be working with FG and HDR

[ocean hollow]

yes and i don't suppose me explaining to them how their thinking about a pipeline is wrong will be taken well...

[rose knoll]

it wouldnt just be UI that would ghost. basically everything on the screen would be terrible

[ocean hollow]

right. i'm not having that problem then. idk which Streamline dll i have

[rose knoll]

the dlss plugin has an optional input that is supposed to be a hud-only texture. and it would get the entire screen

[rose knoll]

it's the nvngx_dlssg.dll that matters

[ocean hollow]

some people have reported horrible ghosting with FG... but i suspect their game hasn't updated properly

[ocean hollow]

yes

ah, i'm not on the stock one

the included Streamline is 3.1.13.0 by the looks

[rose knoll]

that would have the bug if the engine is doing the thing

it's anything after the super old 1.0.7.0 dlssg dlss

even the version number is weird

[ocean hollow]

this pupils/iris thing is driving me mad

[gentle forge]

hiya good folks, looks like there was some intense convo's yest lol

Im just here for some good HDR settings for now though pls

for Jedi Survivor - im running default 50 brightness and shadow details around 25. Any way to set my TVs peak brightness in game?

[jovial patio]

i run stock tbh

[red moth]

It reads peak from windows calibration

[gentle forge]

excellent

[gentle forge]

So 50 and 50...

no raised blacks or anything to compensate for?