▫️Cyberpunk 2077 Ultra+ 2.13 Patch Patch Patch Patch

[minor smelt]

Can you explain this/elaborate on it further? Using DLDSR + DLSS (non-native resolution/no DLAA) will always result in some upscaling artifacts right?

[late vine]

Yes but Cyberpunk also loses a LOT of detail in reflections when they are out of screen space. Not as much as Metro but still. Even PT reflections in Cyberpunk relies heavily on SSR for details

[shadow acorn]

Doesn't ray reconstruction help with that a ton, despite its drawbacks in other areas?

[late vine]

Yep, this is an issue. It is kinda fixed if you add the launch command on steam “-deependark” but still nowhere near a full fix

[gentle haven]

Oh that works?

[shadow acorn]

Seems to work in every game I've tried it in 🤷‍♂️

[shadow acorn]

Yes 100%

It was an issue with SDR too

[late vine]

No, some details such as lighting, fog, ads, graffiti on the walls and other smaller details all are done using SSR even with RR

[shadow acorn]

It's a post processing filter

[gentle haven]

I did not know about that

[minor smelt]

The flood of those yeah, lets projectile vomit for all of them at the same time

[shadow acorn]

RR definitely helps though, compared to NRD

Still not perfect

[shadow acorn]

Still mega bright with the launch command unfortunately

[minor smelt]

Sorry, but really dislike those channels pumping out ReShade shader videos and wanting to be told just how great their work is 😂

[shadow acorn]

All the deependark does is remove the blue grey tint

[gentle haven]

True

[shadow acorn]

It's simply a filter

[late vine]

I agree. As I said, it only helps a little bit. Better than nothing I guess

[gentle haven]

Ah

[shadow acorn]

"creative intent" post processing by the devs

For some ridiculous reason

[gentle haven]

Can't we remove the shaders somehow

[late vine]

I don’t know about DLAA not working properly but I have heard about it once or twice. And about upscaling artifacts, no. DLDSR+DLSS is always superior.

[minor smelt]

Which is worsened by many of these "creators" putting extremely little effort into these "mods" or thinking that overbrighting the image with blinding bloom makes it look wowzers

[shadow acorn]

Dldsr + dlss looks extremely similar to DLAA. I disagree it's superior. Take some comparison screenshots ha

[late vine]

Depends on the DLDSR and DLSS level

[shadow acorn]

I assumed whatever gets you native

[late vine]

DLDSR 2.25x with DLSS Quality has the same internal resolution as DLAA Native

[shadow acorn]

Of course higher than native internal res is superior

Duh

Lol

Also dldsr/dlss combo at native internal res will always be more expensive vs. Dlaa

Because of the downsampling cost

[minor smelt]

But you are essentially then doing the same as DLAA but introducing upscaling artifacts and then downscale the image again, right?

[shadow acorn]

It shouldn't introduce artifacts

[late vine]

From my own recent testing in Horizon Forbidden West and Metro Exodus, 4k + DLDSR 2.25x + DLSS Quality looks better than 4k DLAA.

4k + DLDSR 2.25x with DLSS Quality upscales from 3840x2160, so same as DLAA internal res, to 5760x3240, which is a ridiculously high resolution and then downscales it back to 4k

[shadow acorn]

Game takes higher res, uses native res for dlss, does dlss, then downscales back to native res

[late vine]

Basically:

4k + DLDSR 2.25x + DLSS Quality = 3840x2160 —> 5760x3240 —> 3840x2160

4k DLAA = 3840x2160 —> 3840x2160

[shadow acorn]

Any chance you have screenshots for analysis in these games?

[late vine]

Not personally but I can find you on google in a second

[shadow acorn]

Mmk

[late vine]

before I find that I wanna finish something I wanted to say

the reason DLDSR looks better is because DLSS is simply really good at very high internal resolutions. There was a post on reddit a while back with comparison images and they found out that 1440p internal res, upscaled to 8k, looked noticeably better than 4k with DLAA

Output resolution matters almost just as much as the internal res

8k with DLSS Ultra Performance (1440p internal res) basically looked better than 4k with DLAA (4k internal res)

oh and this was on a 4k screen

so there was downsampling

[shadow acorn]

Well the down sampling algorithm is what does the magic yea

So that makes sense

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/sopranos-pauly-gif-25032006

[shadow acorn]

@upbeat tide didn't you test dldsr+dlss (DLAA) vs. normal DLAA and found no real difference?

I thought we did that exercise months ago

Could be wrong

Oh fun fact for people who use DLDSR/DSR. You can adjust the smoothing slider from NVCP in real time with the game running in the background to see the change. You do not need to restart the game

[late vine]

oh I didn't know

thanks for the tip

https://imgsli.com/Nzg3Mzk/0/2 here is one I found but it is at 1080p and without DLAA but rather Native TAA

native 1080p vs DSR 4k with DLSS Performance (internal res 1080p) downscaled to 1080p

[shadow acorn]

The TAA is dogshit in that game so not surprised

[late vine]

Here is another one in Alan Wake 2

Native + DLAA at 1440p Ultrawide vs DLDSR 2.25x with DLSS Performance

https://imgsli.com/MjI3ODg1/1/2

[shadow acorn]

That dldsr combo gets you the native res?

[late vine]

Nope, it is only 2580x1080

and it still looks better than 3440x1440 DLAA

[upbeat tide]

I did yea, and the difference is there but it does not worth the performance cost at all at 4k

I'm talking about 4K DLAA vs DLDSR 2.25 quality DLSS

[shadow acorn]

Interesting thank you for posting those examples

[late vine]

The difference looks minimal and you could probably only tell in side by sides, but nevertheless it is still proof that DLDSR, even with lower internal resolution, still looks better than DLAA

[upbeat tide]

at 1440p DLDSR + DLSS is always going to look significantly better

[late vine]

I also agree with this. The difference between DLDSR and DLAA is still there at 4k, but it is not as much, and I wouldn't use it if I don't have a lot of performance headroom

[shadow acorn]

I should really upgrade from 1440p to 4k soon

[late vine]

But if performance is no issue then DLDSR + DLSS looks better even at 4k. I can tell the difference on my 32" 4k monitor. I assume it would be even more noticeable on a bigger 4k TV monitor

[upbeat tide]

yea less moire and better distant LOD stability

[shadow acorn]

The bigger the panel is the more individual pixels you'll see. If distance remains equal, so yea def

[upbeat tide]

but at 30-40% perf cost haha

[late vine]

It was more like 15% for me

I use it in Metro exodus enhanced edition

[upbeat tide]

I mean before FG

[late vine]

It has no FG

[upbeat tide]

I used cyberpunk to test

[shadow acorn]

The dldsr/dlss combo vs dlaa is 30-40% more expensive? I assumed more like 15-20 damn

[late vine]

I use 4k DLDSR 2.25x + DLSS Quality and in Metro and Horizon Forbidden west it was 15-20% difference

[late vine]

I guess depends on the game

[upbeat tide]

yea, cyberpunk is heavy and I guess RT scales with resolution too

[late vine]

But Metro's Ray Tracing with an internal resolution of 4k is just chef's kiss

[shadow acorn]

@late vine what smoothness % do you use with dldsr? Depends on the game? In my testing it just depends. Because some games are baseline sharper or blurrier. So a one size fits all slider position doesn't seem to exist

[late vine]

I did some testing and settled on 57% because I couldn't decide between 55 and 60

no less than 50 though

I like a little bit of sharpness but some people don't so I guess you could set it to 65-70 for less sharpness

[upbeat tide]

honestly it's a small miracle that metro runs at ~120fps with no FG on a 4080 with max ray tracing quality

it looks really good

[late vine]

That can't be 4k\

I get 75-80 fps on a 4090 max settings.

4k with DLDSR 2.25x + DLSS Quality

[shadow acorn]

I needed 30% for MGS5 and Subnautica

4k downsampled to 1440p

[late vine]

still less than 100 fps without DLDSR

[shadow acorn]

Definitely depends on the game

Subnautica is a very soft game

[late vine]

Yeah could be, on the other hand, I am not very sensitive to that stuff so\

[shadow acorn]

Idk why I needed so much on MGS5. I don't remember

Probably also on the soft side

Also probably at lower resolutions you'll need a bit more sharpness

Vs. 4k

[late vine]

Also I agree with this so much. For how good it looks, it is crazy how good it runs. Although I will say the textures look last gen in a lot of places. But even if it had very modern texture quality, that would mainly increase VRAM usage, not the performance

[shadow acorn]

I think the desert map has the best visuals in that game

Best way to show off the lighting

[late vine]

I found desert to be the most lacking because the rock textures are very very low

[shadow acorn]

The reflections of the sun off the sands and shadows in the ruins were great

[late vine]

and the rocks are everywhere

[shadow acorn]

I meant in terms of lighting

[late vine]

Ohh yes I agree

[shadow acorn]

Textures yea

Probably not as good as other areas

[late vine]

The textures are definitely the weakest in the desert area

[shadow acorn]

I believe that

[late vine]

here is another comparison

sadly at 1080p

not many people play at 4k leave alone 4k+DLDSR

[shadow acorn]

I'm at 1440p because I always found it a good compromise

But next monitor I'll do 4k

I have the lg 27gr95qe-b wOLED and it's 1440

[upbeat tide]

TAA/DLSS looks best at 4K

[shadow acorn]

Yea i know

Everything looks best at 4k lol

[upbeat tide]

I don't want to imagine how bad TAA looks at 1080p

[upbeat tide]

well I guess it looks even better at 8k haha

[late vine]

There are a lot of people playing at 1080p still which is baffling to me

I thought 1440p was the majority but then you check steam survey and 2 out of 3 people still on 1080p

[shadow acorn]

If I had to guess (so probably wrong here), I'd say it's like 80% 1080p, 15% 1440p, and 5% 4k lol

around that

[upbeat tide]

sound's about right lol

[late vine]

Close but not really

[shadow acorn]

I have multiple friends who are full grown adults who have the money to easily afford 4k, and they still game at 1080p

[late vine]

60% 1080p

20% 1440p

4% 4k

[shadow acorn]

that doesn't equal 100%

[late vine]

around 5% is 1440p Ultrawide

[upbeat tide]

yea there are people using sub 1080p res displays

[shadow acorn]

oh lol

sorry thought you were done

[late vine]

the other ~10% are other resolutions

[shadow acorn]

well let's lump together anything sub-1080p to actual 1080p (incudling ultrawide), 1440p (including ultrawide), and 4k+

what would that be?

[late vine]

4k+ is still only 4%

[shadow acorn]

yea that's what i guessed for that

5%

[late vine]

1440p + Ultrawide 1440p is 24% or so

[shadow acorn]

ok so yea, similar to my guess

[late vine]

yeah

[shadow acorn]

but still, super small minority at 4k+

and these are global stats, right?

does it break it down by country?

[late vine]

yes

no

[shadow acorn]

aw man

would have liked to see the USA alone

[upbeat tide]

There are a lot of tech enthusiasts on this server, but we are not the target audience at all, it's a miracle that companies care about HDR at all(we can thank the consoles). How many ppl actually own and use HDR monitors/TVs for gaming?

[late vine]

very few

I only switched to HDR a few months ago

and my God it felt like a massive difference

like a free graphics upgrade

[shadow acorn]

We are literally like a 0.0001% minority

[late vine]

It felt like going from Ultra setings to Ultra+ settings, even though nothing changed in terms of graphics itself

[upbeat tide]

The majority of the people don't know what HDR is or how it should look like. It's still considered a marketing gimmick by like 90% of the people

[late vine]

Just like RT, but that party is slowing down

[shadow acorn]

Which TV/monitor?

[upbeat tide]

It does really fell like that haha

[late vine]

I have the LG C2 OLED in my living room and Samsung Odyssey Neo G7 MiniLED as my primary desktop monitor

[upbeat tide]

I switched to HDR in 2019 I think

[shadow acorn]

Cool. I have the lg c1 in the living room and the ultra gear oled for my monitor

[upbeat tide]

Same I use a C1

[late vine]

I simply couldn't deal with the oled burn in for my main PC monitor because I do coding and shit ton of productivity work

[shadow acorn]

I got a budget TCL tv with hdr in 2018 to start learning about HDR. Then i got the c1 in late 2021 when i felt i was ready for a real panel

[upbeat tide]

I used one of the Sony Bravia 1000 nits local dimming TVs as my first HDR "monitor"

[shadow acorn]

I mean no disrespect but it confuses me when people say this.....just simply use a 2nd IPS panel for general use?

Lol

That's what i do

[late vine]

Yeah, that is what I am doing except it is mini LED

[shadow acorn]

Oh my bad. Thought you were gaming on that

[late vine]

I game on both equally tbh

[shadow acorn]

Aight

[late vine]

I don't see too much difference so when i am lazy to connect the PC to the TV I just use the miniLED

[upbeat tide]

Honestly I use my C1 for pretty much everything even for work lol

no burn in so far

[shadow acorn]

I have an old ass acer predator xb271hu as my main. Then i just switch to the oled on the left for games

[upbeat tide]

btu I will replace it in a year anyways

[late vine]

My computer is on at least 10-12 hours a day

so it is not an option for me

most of it with static things in the background

I feel like if I used my C2 for work it would get burn in within a year

[upbeat tide]

I see and yea I would not use it either

[shadow acorn]

What would you buy instead?

[late vine]

MicroLED with millions of dimming zones is the real endgame. Hopefully I will be able to buy one below $10 000 in the next 4 decades 🙏

[upbeat tide]

I usually use my laptop for work

[shadow acorn]

Yea i have a separate 1440p dell monitor for work

[upbeat tide]

G3 looks promising or maybe the G4 next year

[shadow acorn]

it's set up in a different location with a standing desk

[shadow acorn]

yea that's what I would get

Since LG hates their C series now lol

I'm not sold on QD OLED. I really do not want to deal with Samsung's stupid firmware/UI, and the Sony TVs are ripoffs

also we are so so so off topic in this channel lmfao

[upbeat tide]

It's kinda a dead end I think, they are going to abandon the tech imo

[late vine]

@shadow acorn by the way, if you want to upgrade to 4k but can't yet, use DLDSR 2.25x which is 4k. I used that till I upgraded and honestly on a smaller screen like 27-32" or smaller, there is not THAT much diference

[late vine]

I think OLED is a dead end and I say this as an OLED user

[shadow acorn]

Yea, if I'm playing an older game, I automatically go for DLDSR 2.25x

[late vine]

the burn in thing is never going to get fixed

[upbeat tide]

uh btw we are in the ultra plus room lol

[shadow acorn]

Burn in isn't a big deal

I haven't seen a single person in this server or the SK server say they actually got burn in within a reasonable amount of time

[upbeat tide]

https://discord.com/channels/1161035767917850784/1178744045875511406

[shadow acorn]

Hey let's switch to the other channel

[shadow heath]

I think DF showed it once, and I saw it myself on an AW2 comparison of DLAA vs DLSS/DLDSR combos. DLAA can produce strong aliasing on certain lines that even native or DLSS Q won't have

That's what I mean by not working properly

It's supposed to produce a very pristine image

[shadow acorn]

Do you happen to have the DF video source? I really wanna watch that

I don't recall them ever saying that

[shadow heath]

Whatever it was I saw it long ago, but that's an side, you can see it yourself if you find some imgsli comparisons that have native / dlaa / dlss / dldsr + dlss

[shadow acorn]

I believe that the DLDSR/DLSS combo vs. DLAA will look better

but DLAA looking worse than DLSS Quality?

that one i have never heard

[minor smelt]

@shadow heath You might be right about Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition not having shadows, but please town down your annoyance a bit. Calling it "the most stupid argument ever" comes over a bit disrespectful. @late vine in my opinion could also improve his or her behavior; you knew Olek was talking about the shadows being RT/more accurate or not. While he might have been a bit overly persistent, but you keep making comparisons regarding perceived final image... idk, you stimulate this way that the conversation seperates and conflict with each other. Don't worry, not a warning or anything, just some feedback. But have a harder time to put it in proper words honestly haha. Hard to describe this.

And for all, didn't mind us going off-topic a bit, but we've been going off-topic for hours now haha. Maybe good to move this over to #🔆hdr-gaming or even better to #💬chat as it is not HDR or CP2077-mod-related anymore.

[shadow acorn]

Did AW2 have the DLAA vs. DLAA Q issue? Or was the 2nd part just about games in general with broken DLAA?

[shadow heath]

Not worse overall, in some games it has added aliasing to diagonal lines that isn't there with native or dlss

[shadow acorn]

interesting

[shadow heath]

AW2 is the most recent example I saw

I tried finding the imgsli comparison

[shadow acorn]

thx for looking

[broken hornet]

I reset usersettings, still having this issue. will submit a report on github!

[shadow heath]

I found it. Actually wasn't as bad as I remembered in AW2, but comparing DLAA vs DLSS Q you can see how it's mostly the same, and some lines are worse with DLAA.
Only issue is this comparison is missing native 4K TAA
But the biggest finding is just how much better DLDSR 2.25 + DLSS Performance is, and it performs the same as DLAA, sometimes very slightly better
https://imgsli.com/MjI3ODg1/1/2

Look at the power lines especially

[late vine]

Yep, I just posted this exact slider a bit ago

DLDSR 2.25x with DLSS Performance still looks better

despite DLAA having 80% higher internal resolution

[shadow acorn]

Thanks for digging that up!!

[shadow acorn]

Yea DLAA is actually slightly more aliased

but it looks like it has slightly better texture res

so it's a tradeoff meh

could this have been caused by added sharpening with DLAA?

[late vine]

Compare it to DLDSR which makes DLSS look very blurry in that regard

[shadow heath]

Wdym the textures are better with DLDSR

[shadow acorn]

No, I was talking about DLAA vs. DLSS Q

in that comparison, DLAA has slightly better texture res, but more aliasing

For DLAA vs. DLDSR, DLDSR is better overall in every regard, you're right

[shadow heath]

Well ofc DLAA will have better textures

[shadow acorn]

yea

[shadow heath]

DLAA vs DLDSR textures though

giant difference

[shadow acorn]

right

agreed

[shadow heath]

and it's crazy that this is a match for performance

Nvidia should be doing something to make DLAA look that way

pretty easy marketing win too, DLDSR v2

cuz using DLDSR is a hassle

and you can't even do it if your display has DSC

[late vine]

My display has DSC and I do it

wdym

it just makes Alt-Tabbing a hassle

[shadow acorn]

Yea this is a huge nuance

and most new monitors are DSC

[shadow heath]

Nvidia does not support DLDSR with DSC

nor DSR

[late vine]

Then how do I use it? 😭

[shadow acorn]

are you running 8 bit?

[shadow heath]

If you're able to use then DSC is not active

[late vine]

I am running 10 bit full RGB 4k 120Hz

[shadow heath]

there is no workaround

[late vine]

HDMI 2.1

[shadow acorn]

you don't have DSC

lol

you're using uncompressed HDMI 2.1

[shadow heath]

DSC is not needed to run that

[late vine]

But Hdmi 2.1 doesn’t support 5760x3240 at 120Hz

[shadow acorn]

yes it does

or i thought it did

it supports 5k i know that

not sure about that one though

[shadow heath]

Are you talking about the virtual resolution'

[late vine]

Hdmi 2.1 is only up to 4k 144Hz

without DAC

DSC

[late vine]

Yes the resolution with DLDSR

[shadow heath]

That doesn't matter

Your display isn't using DSC

[late vine]

Doesn’t DSC automatically enable when you use higher res than what the cable can support

[shadow heath]

thus you can run virtual res

[shadow acorn]

your monitor is still receiving a 4k signal though

[shadow heath]

For real resolutions not virtual

[late vine]

I am asking this because I have no problems with Alt Tabbing without DLDSR, but when I enable DLDSR, screen goes black for 2 seconds when alt tabbing

[shadow acorn]

@late vineBe happy! You aren't using DSC. You're getting uncompressed video 🙂

[shadow acorn]

are you using borderless windowed?

[late vine]

I have heard this is DSC issue

[shadow heath]

That is Windows/WDM

[late vine]

Fullscreen

[shadow acorn]

dx12/dx11 game?

[late vine]

yes

[shadow acorn]

if dx12, "fullscreen" is borderless windowed. If dx11, choose borderless windowed specifically

could also be something with MPOs since DLDSR disables MPOs

who knows

but point is you're not using DSC ha

[shadow heath]

Desktop and fullscreen application resolution mismatch it's normal to get that when tabbing

[late vine]

But I would know if DLDSR wasn’t working right? Because I can choose DLDSR resolution in game and when I change it to that resolution the quality increased and overlay UI from MSI afterburner etc gets smaller.

[shadow heath]

DSC screens have issues like that on their native res when tabbing FSE

[late vine]

DLSS Tweaks HUD also shows that it is upscaling to the DLDSR resolution so it should be working

[shadow acorn]

just add <res> to rtss

to the OSD

it'll say the game res

[shadow heath]

If DLDSR wasnn't working it would not show up in NVCPL

simple as

[late vine]

Oh okay that clears it

[shadow acorn]

@late vine

[shadow acorn]

that too lol

[shadow heath]

and if you have a screen running in DSC mode it won't show up no matter what u do, Nvidia doesn't support it, there is no workaround

don't undersatnd why because AMD has working VSR with DSC

but it's been like this forever

[minor smelt]

#🔆hdr-gaming

[shadow heath]

sorry

[shadow acorn]

#🔆hdr-gaming

[shadow acorn]

#🔆hdr-gaming

[minor smelt]

@gritty geode Shall I banish them to a realm without oxygen? People always say you can't live without love, I would like to test my hypothesis that oxygen might actually be more important.... 😈

@shadow acorn would go first btw

[gentle haven]

What

[minor smelt]

This topic is meant for mod-development of this specific Ultra Plus mod, but some of you went hugely off-topic for hundreds of messages haha. Shit happens.

[shadow acorn]

So uh...............that Ultra+ mod eh? Pretty cool

[gentle haven]

Ha

[late vine]

Yeah path tracing and stuff

[shadow acorn]

Yea, path tracing is cool

[minor smelt]

Single developer glory-story yadiyadiyada

[gritty geode]

lol

[gritty geode]

no, please 😥

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/so-quiet-why-so-quiet-heath-ledger-the-joker-gif-12263842

[minor smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-hi-the-dark-knight-heath-ledger-awkward-gif-13715992

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/hey-there-joker-dc-gif-15077573

[covert monolith]

ultra plus always turns off ray reconstruction every time I turn on the game

I'm playing with rt-pt

4.0 rc-1

[gritty geode]

https://youtu.be/_n72gRg1664

[gritty geode]

it turns it off? 🤔 people keep saying it turns it on

[covert monolith]

ya i have to manually turn it on every time I start the game

[gritty geode]

okay ty I'll add it to the list of things to look at

[cyan scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/luluwpp-gif-25648350

waiting for the next ultra+ release be like

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/the-sound-of-emptiness-vreid-dazed-and-reduced-song-season-of-mist-the-sound-of-nothing-gif-21991876

[shadow heath]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-the-dark-knight-dc-dc-comics-superhero-gif-17600211

[gritty geode]

lol sorry guys work is crazy

[gentle haven]

Sammi, what do you think of the resident evil path tracing mod?

[gentle haven]

Don't worry

[shadow heath]

It's broken and unusable

[minor smelt]

Disagree, it's just a developer reference mode with limitations, like too dark environments sometimes and no denoiser. Context is key here.

[shadow heath]

It's not a matter of opinion, in the RE games it's literally broken, half the lights stop working, it adds shadows from invisible lights, and all it actually does is enable RT shadows. RE4 seems to be the only one where it seems to be doing something with lighting

It's only functional in DD2

if modders can add a denoiser to DD2, fix some of the render distance issues as well as some objects being missing from BVH generation and small light sampling, it would be like a shipped feature

devs could fix that in a day if Capcom cared

[cyan scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-jump-kiss-cute-gif-17574926

[gritty geode]

what's resident evil? 😊

[gentle haven]

The hell

[gaunt skiff]

It's like a house that's evil within

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhHK3VCAUy4

[gritty geode]

lmao. i'm kidding. i did play RE for a few hours

until this huge guy kept chasing me

other than that it was good

[minor smelt]

I'll promise to not do this again next time

[gritty geode]

that would be appreciated

[gritty geode]

this nerd

he's a bit of a stalker

the rest of the game was fun

[minor smelt]

Yeah sorry, had low blood sugar at the time. Always puts me in a crazy mood.

[gritty geode]

😂

this is over our stove

also it bugs me that it's gramatically incorrect

but you know... they make signs. it's not like they only have one job

[late vine]

They must have been hungry

[gentle haven]

Btw for the ones that play metro and do not have hdr

It is automatically in hdr mode

you need to disable it via -forcenohdr

also, i myself have used dldsr to 1440p (from 1080p) freestyle sharpen and dlaa forced by dlsstweaks

You can also force anisotropic filtering to 16x clamp via nvidia cp (don't know if this has any effect)

Sorry that this is off topic again, just felt like saying it because it was mentioned earlier

[gritty geode]

you're okay 😊

[mystic scroll]

what's this? better rt for cyberpunk?

[gaunt skiff]

It's better everything for cyberpunk

[shadow acorn]

You need -deependark

That's the one that gets rid of the blue/grey filter

[shadow acorn]

If you're using dlss you want it on "allow." Otherwise dlss isn't gonna work right

I don't recall any issues with metro AF so likely no need to force it via control panel

Thx for attending my ted talk

[gritty geode]

better RT (RT blended with PT for almost no cost) and better PT (much less PT noise)

I will finish v4 one day 😭

[gentle haven]

I know i have both arguments

[shadow heath]

https://x.com/VrKomarov/status/1791906498353742157

Vladimir Komarov (@VrKomarov) on X

Tested Nvidia Neural Radiance Cache in my path tracer. This is a very promising tech but I don't think I can use it now - it's just not robust and has too many hallucinations with color and intensity...

Twitter · May 18, 2024, 6:59 PM

tangentially related

[gritty geode]

ooh! ta! 😊

that looks great

[subtle plinth]

hi i was able to do some things to lessen the amount of noise and light instability in certain poorly lit location while RR is turned on, without hurting fps noticeably (though i'm on 4080 super, maybe it would be noticeable on other systems)... i don't really know much of how this works unlike sammi but i combined guessing based on the names of the ini variables and somethings i did know if you are interested I'd like to share and also you could tell me if there is a problem with my methods, anyway right now i'm off to play the game with walls not looking like i just took shrooms

[gentle haven]

I'm curious

What did you do

[subtle plinth]

a few things...
first.
in denoiser_rr.ini first: changed all MaxFastAccumulatedFrameNum to 6 and except the one in [Editor/Denoising/ReLAX/Indirect/Diffuse] I set to 8

[Editor/Denoising/ReLAX/Direct/Common]
HistoryFixFrameNum = 4 from 3 (no idea if this did anything good though)

MaxAccumulatedFrameNum increased (not all to the same depends one which one but all increased)
in
[Editor/Denoising/ReLAX/Indirect/Diffuse]
MaxFastAccumulatedFrameNum = 8 ; (3) from 4
MaxAccumulatedFrameNum = 32 ; line wasn't there before (in the 4.0 CET rc-1 version

other things too

i tested it in some locations where there's always noise, like judy's apartment specially the room with evelyn's, the beanbag was really shimmering before, now it is completely still at all times of day

to be clear i always use RT-PT (with a slightly altered "high" preset)... with RR on in gaming

[gentle haven]

But this is PT right?

[subtle plinth]

no RT-PT

[gentle haven]

Ah alright

[subtle plinth]

I prefered it since it has more image stability, really noise is more annoying to me than slightly incorrect lighting or shadows

if var.settings.mode == var.mode.RT_PT then
SetOption("Editor/RTXDI", "SpatialNumDisocclusionBoostSamples", "32") does this value accept higher values too? because I tried setting it to 40 with no noticeable performance hit and it seems like it makes the image more stable, but maybe it's in my head

also i find RR works a bit unpredictably, sometimes it's more still then i turn off the game and restart it, and then it acts different from last time even though i set everything up the same way?

so i'm not even sure if i did anything or just got lucky a few times

[late vine]

It is AI-based so the AI constructs the image from scratch every time you boot up the game. Could cause very slight differences between each reboot, even if standing at the same spot. 99.9% of the time it is unnoticeable though

[gritty geode]

nice changes. they sound completely sane

[gritty geode]

yes I believe it goes to 64. once it recompiles the shader it shouldn't cost much though, because it's sampling from an envmap

[gritty geode]

yeah, I've seen this too. it seems to just be the engine. I've seen the game start up really weirdly, then is fine after a restart.

[late vine]

in the meanwhile I finally tried out Marty's RTGI shader and honestly it is so bad 😭

I thought it was just because cyberpunk already has Path tracing but even in older games it is very hit or miss even after hours of manual tweaking and testing

You can make a scene look amazing after 2 hours of tweaking, but go to a different scene with different lighting and suddenly you realize you wasted your 2 hours because what looks good for one scene, looks horrible with another

I don't know what I expected from a post process screen space effect but I was pretty disappointed overall

Not only that, but it also halves your fps.

On the other hand, his free Ambient Occlusion shader MXAO is great in most games (that I tested) which don't have RTAO

[gentle haven]

I didn't get it to work with subnautica

So i don't know if it even works

Could you explain

[late vine]

Download and install reshade, drag and drop the MXAO file to the reshade folder inside the game's folder

then enable it from the reshade UI

[gentle haven]

Yeah i did that and it still didn't work

[late vine]

And adjust the settings to your liking, mainly the quality level and AO intensity

[late vine]

Hmm, no clue tbh

Maybe some games aren't supported

[gentle haven]

Wait you don't need the collection thingy

?

[late vine]

What collection

[gentle haven]

Launchpad

this

[late vine]

yeah enable that too

and drag it to the top

for the correct load order

[gentle haven]

Well then it seems subnautica just doesn't want to work with it

[late vine]

but don't touch the settings for the launchpad

[late vine]

Hmm maybe

I think his RTGI is simply not worth it until he releases the world-space path tracer he showcased a while back

screen space ray tracing is just meh

and usually looks worse than the original game if the game isn't older than 10 years

[gentle haven]

That would be amazing if it worked properly

[late vine]

Yeah

I personally don't play games any older than 4-5 years on average, mainly because I played most of them when they came out and I have no desire to go back

and most games nowadays already have some type of global illumination

even the ones with mediocre GI still don't look that much better with Screen Space RTGI

You need a native implementation or a non-screen-space path tracer

[gentle haven]

I will probably test the world space pt on the dumbest shit

[late vine]

Not to mention even if it is a little bit of an improvement in some games, it absolutely never is worth halving your performance

If it was a 10% or even 20% performance loss I would be fine with it

but going from 100 fps to 50 fps is just lol

[late vine]

If it works good then I will probably enable it in every game that doesn't have rt

[gentle haven]

btw the aa he has also didn't work with subnautica

[gentle haven]

man i don't think scarlet nexus will look good with ptgi

It has an anime style

[late vine]

okay yeah exclude games with certain art styles

[shadow acorn]

That shader was always a joke lol

[gritty geode]

KrushSG was saying CompleteRT is better, and much faster

(I haven't used either)

[subtle plinth]

is that also a for pay rt reshade?

btw just played cp today first time with your ultra fog... first time in very long since i've turned on bloom... looks absolutely amazing

[gentle haven]

https://www.patreon.com/NiceGuy147

I believe this is the one

[minor smelt]

Nice, maar zou jij voor zoiets betalen? 😛

[gentle haven]

Nope

Ben bang dat het niet goed werkt

[minor smelt]

Same

idd

Vind vaak uberhaupt beetje vreemd dat je geld daarvoor vraagt

[gentle haven]

tis net zoals die premium shader crap die je op youtube vindt

[minor smelt]

It is also just ReShade Screen Space shaders.... why would you pay for that?!

Even have to pay to have access to his Discord?!

[minor smelt]

Yes.... he apparently has more than thousand members there and probably a lot are paying....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK5QwHHRf8A He posted a video about it. Calling it "remaster your faviourite game" 😂 Honestly have to say the vanilla vs "complete RT" (it isn't complete!!! Just in screen space) comparisons make the complete RT version look worse to me with weird color grading.

[gentle haven]

Yep

[shadow heath]

the only remotely valid usecase for these kinds of shaders is older games which had bad SSAO

[minor smelt]

My god, uses Avengers music in the video. Thus weird color grading and like so many ReShade projects, quite some overusage of bloom-effects. And most of the "improvements" are hardly noticable; only in Battlefront-part it is quite noticable that the lighting looks more realistic, but get the feeling he implements also quite heavy chromatic abberation or something?

[shadow heath]

also lol camera distortion and CA

and DOF blurring out distance

[minor smelt]

Idk, have no problems with these ReShade "mods", but only find those "ultra realistic graphics" videos annoying and asking especially money for this... my god...

[minor smelt]

CA?

[minor smelt]

Yeah, camera is doing weird things in his comparisons...

[shadow heath]

Chromatic Aberration

[minor smelt]

Literally what I just said, I'm an idiot-sandwich

[shadow heath]

there is literally no visible difference in AO/Lighting in modern games

also this clown shows it off in a game like Uncharted which uses baked lighting everywhere

[minor smelt]

His battlefront examples in the latter part of that video looks better though. But those are all still shots. When in movement, the limitations of this all being done in screen space will soon show...

[shadow heath]

also wtf is this shaky cam thing

who in the hell would play like that

[minor smelt]

Yeah, so his "RT" is likely just completely overlapping with existing lighting, likely why it looks like it mostly only does some color grading

[minor smelt]

Come on, not so negative; who doesn't want to vomit during gameplay? 😛

[shadow heath]

yeah the Battlefront example is ok

might have just cranked up the settings there

because it's a desert sunny map

probably why the other examples you can't notice anything

if you increase it to noticeable levels probably looks horrible outside of very specific scenarios like the SW example

but I legit don't understand why the showcase is a bunch of very good looking recent AAA games

[minor smelt]

Hopefully his comparisons are true though and that he didn't on purpose use lower settings in the vanilla shots

[shadow heath]

instead of old ones

[minor smelt]

Gonna jump on a very negative train for once and say: because those are more popular, bring your more attention, more subscribers and more moneys haha

[shadow heath]

maybe, but it also makes it look useless

[minor smelt]

Clearly worked; 12K views in 2 months

[shadow heath]

also I love how this is called "Complete RT"

Nvidia often refers to path tracing as "Full RT"

this is a bunch of screenspace nonsense that has almost nothing in common with RT

[minor smelt]

in the comments he said "it's a new shader I'm doing that add camera shake effects"

[shadow heath]

it's not even tracing against geometry but making guesses from the depth buffer

no worldspace access even within the screen

[minor smelt]

People that pay for his Patreon are likely all influenced by hype haha

And come on, the magical word of "RT" makes everything look awesome. I didn't want to reveal it yet, but we're also planning on adding RT to BR4P 😱

[shadow heath]

honestly it would be easier to clickbaite and market this with examples from older games that lacked proper AO and lighting

[minor smelt]

Maybe NiceGuy doesn't actually care that much about older games.

Which is weird as indeed there the most improvements with this lies

Idk, all those YouTube videos made me really negative about those low-effort ReShade attempts

Happy btw that everything that is being worked and offered on here is much better in general and completely free.

[shadow heath]

when Reshade is not used in a subtle way it's always to the detriment of the game

[shadow acorn]

lol what a joke

who pays for these shaders?

[minor smelt]

Probably more than 100?

[shadow acorn]

😦

[shadow heath]

https://research.nvidia.com/labs/rtr/publication/zhang2024area/

https://graphics.cs.utah.edu/research/projects/area-restir/

rn it costs double the frametime, but stuff usualyl gets optimized fast after publishing

[gritty geode]

nee, het is eigenlijk fatsoenlijk. Ik vertrouw KrushSG

je zou ook gewoon een Reshade screenspace shader kunnen gebruiken...

[gritty geode]

I won't ever charge for ultra+. if you like it, plant a tree for me 😊

I may set up a kofi or patreon for people who've said they want to support me, it would help me buy games I don't want to play, too. but the mods will always be freee.

[gritty geode]

well i can't do anything at the moment, i did a bios update and my GPU is overheating (laptop). it's not letting me roll back either

[minor smelt]

Likely the fan curves have been reset to too low values

Going into the bios and adjusting the fan curves should help

[gritty geode]

yes unfortunately there's no options in bios because it's a laptop. I think they've added more power to the GPU

[gentle haven]

Try putting a fan on it

[minor smelt]

Lol, not gonna work on a laptop 🤣

[minor smelt]

Then try to set it in the laptop manufacturer's software solution for this

[gentle haven]

Just a desktop fan

It should be able to push more cool air in

[minor smelt]

Not gonna be enough to solve overheating

[gentle haven]

hmmmm

Alright

never had a gpu overheat on me so i wouldn't know

It did help with throttling tho

[minor smelt]

It helps a bit, but not that significant as the floating extra air will hardly hit the internals of the laptop

[shadow acorn]

Buy a 4090 and list it as a company expense for AI research, ez

[gritty geode]

yup just throw this one in the bin 😂

except that I hate wastage

[gritty geode]

or I just bring forward virtualising windows in Linux so I don't have to deal with this shit anymore

[shadow acorn]

I'm still using Ultra+ 3.5.3

looks great ha

The 4.0 versin on nexus is still the rc1 right?

[gritty geode]

yes 😊

f it i might have to buy a new laptop

[gentle haven]

What if it was the bios developers purpose to break it with an update so you have to buy a new one

[gentle haven]

ay sammi, your jedi survivor link doesn't work btw

[shadow acorn]

Does ray reconstruction use less vram than NRD?

or nah?

[gritty geode]

i think yeah

[gritty geode]

which one?

new laptop is on the way sigh

[gritty geode]

yyyyyuppp.

except i bought a lenovo, so.... ya know 😂

[minor smelt]

I really think it is just some bug that would have been solved again over time.... But a new laptop will work too of course haha

[gentle haven]

The one on the cyberpunk ultra plus page

Also "not so good draw distance" got an major update

It's a configurable script now

[gritty geode]

oh, thank you!

[gentle haven]

And it says it is incompatible with ultra+

[gentle haven]

No problem

[gritty geode]

fixed!

hopefully soon i'll be able to play the game 😂

[gentle haven]

nice

[gentle haven]

I hope so too

[shadow acorn]

Either that updated mod or her updated environmental LODs mod tanked performance

so i rolled back to older versions of each

[shadow acorn]

oh that explains it probably ha

[gentle haven]

Although it should be fine if you quote the precache and minstreaming lines

in ultra plus

Haven't tested it though

[shadow acorn]

What exactly is the incompatability? Ultra+ has those values higher, so it makes the LOD mod more intensive?

[gentle haven]

I think the incompatability might be just 4.0 since they keep overwriting each other

Then again

[shadow acorn]

Oh ok

i'm still using version 3.5.3

and version 0.291 of the draw distance mod

[gentle haven]

Not so good draw distance may just multiply the distances that are in the ini it sees

So it depends on how it works i guess

[shadow acorn]

Not sure if anyone knows, but looks like there were 2 version 0.291 versions of that mod

Here's the original from April version 0.291

And here is the upated may version of the version 0.291

which is better to use with ultra+ 3.5.3?

[gentle haven]

yep, it works like this

[shadow acorn]

I have been using the first version above

and it's been okay

but wondering if i should use the 2nd

I haven't tried the new version yet

hope that question makes sense

[gentle haven]

the new one does save 2 gigs of storage space

[shadow acorn]

so the screenshots above are both version 0.291 from the archive

he never chagned the version number

he just re-released version 0.291 in may

with a note saying "had to turn down settings"

I'd rather just stick with version 0.291 since it's been working

[gentle haven]

Ultra plus overwrites it i believe

[shadow acorn]

but not sure which one to use

[gentle haven]

Judging by the naming

atleast the ones that are in ultraplus

which are the edited ones

so it doesn't really matter i think

[shadow acorn]

oh ok

yea that makes sense

since ultra+ has priority

and the files don't have the same name

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/but-you-don't-but-you-don't-have-to-take-my-word-for-it-my-word-for-it-take-my-word-for-it-levar-burton-gif-6929357292073050033

[shadow acorn]

No I think yo'ure right

[gentle haven]

I am no expert

[shadow acorn]

that's why he's saying the new version is incompatible

and to comment it out in ultra+

it must have priority

[gentle haven]

no that is not the issue with the new version

The new version uses the value it gets and multiplies it

So if you go from 100 to 400 default

with a mulitplier of 2

It would turn into 800 instead of 200

i screwed up the calculations for a sec there

[shadow acorn]

oh the new version of the LOD mod is a script

not that engine file

[gentle haven]

yes

newValue = setup.GetStreamingDistance() * this.meshesMultiplier;

[shadow acorn]

got it

so that won't be overrideen by ultra+

it'll just do its own thing

so you have to change ultra+ to be compatible

so it's not also doing similar stuff

[gentle haven]

with the new one yes

[shadow acorn]

yea

[gentle haven]

And delete all the old files

[shadow acorn]

i'm sticking with version 0.291 of the LOD mod then and ultra+ 3.5.3

not gonna fix what ain't broke

ha

[gentle haven]

ay while i have you here

What mode you using?

[shadow acorn]

in Ultra+?

[gentle haven]

yep

[shadow acorn]

balanced 16gb

[gentle haven]

rtpt, 2.1 or 2.0?

[shadow acorn]

oh, woops. 2.0

with PT and RR

[gentle haven]

I am currently thinking if i should switch back for now

[gentle haven]

alright

thanks

[shadow acorn]

I just figured version 4.0 had a few more things to iron out

so i'd give it some time

i tried it a few weeks ago and had some glitches

[gentle haven]

It works great

[shadow acorn]

hmm

[gentle haven]

except for some things

[shadow acorn]

i kept having car light casting disappearing

with the rc1 version at least

[gentle haven]

yeah i remember that

[gentle haven]

there was an rc2

[shadow acorn]

oh not sure i ever saw that

[gentle haven]

this one

[shadow acorn]

thx

[gentle haven]

though you need to adjust one thing i believe

this thing

[shadow acorn]

@gritty geode for whenever you see this later - does it not matter which older version I use here since Ultra+ will override anyway?

[gentle haven]

Wouldn't it be useful to just put rc2 with that adjustment on github?

Also, if possible i could try to fix the issues

[shadow acorn]

I really wish mod authors would leave the old versions available for download

aka Sosuine lol

i had to use the firefox page html reader thing to find the right file ID and plug it into the download link

otherwise you can't download it

lol

[gentle haven]

I know that is possible from my own mod

[minor smelt]

Many do though luckily

[gentle haven]

They have to specificly turn it off

[shadow acorn]

most do thankfully

It's kinda dumb when you make a new version of the mod, which may not work super well, but hide the old versions

[gentle haven]

Yeah

[shadow acorn]

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/4923?tab=files

wait this mod was also updated

he added another part

[gentle haven]

Was it?

[shadow acorn]

i don't understand how this differs from the not so great draw distance mod?

he says you can use both together

[gentle haven]

Oh

He added megabuildings

Check the post

[shadow acorn]

i thought not so great draw distance mod does distant LODs?

[gentle haven]

Yeah no that's not how it works

[minor smelt]

He literally tells you to do that yeah haha

[shadow acorn]

The post is dated from 2022 so it's confusing to know if tha'ts recent or an old comment of the other part

must have edited an old stickied post

[gentle haven]

Probably

[minor smelt]

If he still refers to it, it likely still applies

[shadow acorn]

but yea anyway, what is the difference

[minor smelt]

What does that post say? 😂

[shadow acorn]

nothing about the other mod?

[gentle haven]

The lods mod adds

Higher quality lods

[minor smelt]

No, but comparing the description of both can lead to the answer

[gentle haven]

The nsgdd increases the loaded area

I think that is the case

[shadow acorn]

Oh ok. So nsgdd just loads higher quality LODs to prevent pop ins , but this new file makes those LODs actual higher quality?

makes sense

[gentle haven]

To stop pop in

[gentle haven]

Nah i fucked up

It just does the streaming distance thing

And thus loads assets earlier to combat popin

[shadow acorn]

So just to be clear. This new nextgendistance LODs does what you just said. And not so great draw distance mod actually just adds higher quality LOD textures?

or other way around

[gentle haven]

Other way around

Also, gonna figure out how to github

[shadow acorn]

thx

for confirming

The other file in that mod is called "nextgenenvironmentallods" so I think everyone wsa getting confused because the sticky comment was saying "nextgendistancelods" which looks very similar

and it was stickied from 2022

so it was just unclear

ha

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/understandable-have-nice-day-have-a-great-day-have-a-good-day-nice-gif-20850110

[shadow acorn]

I did this, otherwise I would not have asked if it was clear

[gentle haven]

Yea, sosuine is not the best in making descriptions

[shadow acorn]

A lot of mods have descriptions or file structures that make absolutely zero sense. The GITs mod page is probably the worst offender ha

I'm not using that mod though

i didn't think it mixed with RenoDX well

too much change

[gentle haven]

alright

Forked ultraplus

Fucked up a bunch

Fixed the fuck ups

updated fork to rc2

And changed the line that WoaDmulL changed

I think it should be up to date now

And now i know how to github

If i missed anything please let me know

[shadow acorn]

What is that line fixing? What was the original rc2 issue that needed to be fixed?

[gentle haven]

I think it is something like seperate denoising not enabling

I am now reverse engineering the ultraplus code

[shadow acorn]

😛

this?

there is another denoiser besides NRD and RR?

[gentle haven]

i think it removes that again to fix separate denoiser no longer turning on

[shadow acorn]

interesting

I'll stick with 3.5.3 for now ha

[gentle haven]

I think separate denoiser means it does something else for the plants and other items that use env probes

[shadow acorn]

hmm

[gentle haven]

oh god

Only that already took an hour

wtf

[shadow acorn]

haha dang

why so long

[gentle haven]

I guess because i suck

[shadow acorn]

Better than me!

[gentle haven]

welp

Don't know if this works

Tried to make a second vram row for not so good draw distance compatibility

probably also did it in the dumbest way possible

IT DID SOMETHIGN

hmmm

Did i unfuck the thing

nope

Its more screwed now

well

fixed it a bit again

my brain too dumb for this

[gentle haven]

@gritty geode if i could ask, how did you learn lua?

I need to actually learn it if i want to help

[gritty geode]

I don't know what sosuine has changed... U+ just overrides his draw distances, but it's the NSGDD mod itself that does most of the work... he's individually edited the assets so more assets use the MinStreamingDistance property

[gritty geode]

you're absolutely welcome to. I don't think I'm going to have time for the next few weeks

[gentle haven]

He turned the mod into an script and deleted the archives

[shadow acorn]

i think it ignores the U+ overrides now

and does its ownt hing

since it's a script now

[gritty geode]

NSGDD - a lot of assets get culled at 20m and 40m. there are a few which obey the MinStreamingDistance though. sosuine has added a lot more to obey the MinStreamingDistance so they don't get culled until e.g. 100m

LODs - this changes the distances LODs change at, so assets stay higher quality for farther

[gritty geode]

umm interesting

[shadow acorn]

He added a new file to the Improved Environmental LODs mod called "nextgendistantlods"

[gritty geode]

well if there's no archives I doubt it does anything more than U+

I'll have a look

I still have the previous version if anyone wants it

[shadow acorn]

i have them too

version 0.291

for draw distance

[gritty geode]

sure! I asked chatgpt to write parts of it. half of what it told me was wrong, so I just kind of learnt as I went

[shadow acorn]

haha

[gentle haven]

+ah

Completely forgot that that was an option

[gritty geode]

it gives you some crazy answers sometimes, but it's great for learning

[gentle haven]

I see

It gives very detailed explanations

[gritty geode]

yep! mostly it will just tell you something and then change it's answer in the next reply. and it doesn't necessarily give good answers. but it's good to learn

chatgpt is a toy

here's how I configured it

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/curiosity-intensifies-cat-gif-14372862

[gritty geode]

When responding to questions on computer programming, please use only tabs for indentation, follow the Roblox Lua Style Guide (though some inline code commenting is fine to help with explaining things), and favour guard clauses over nested if/elseif statements where practicable to do so.

i couldn't get to it on my phone lol

[gentle haven]

Thank you

Also i figured out what i broke in imgui

stupid little extra {

[gritty geode]

my full response text

I am interested in scientific and research-related discussions, language, and terminology. I am very comfortable with technical language. I am interested in unbiased information on research data and datasets, however I am also interested in ChatGPT's opinions and interpretations of said data. I would like to know what information (either your own or from others) is opinion or interpretation-based, versus information that is factual and data-derived information, to the best of our knowledge. Don't re-summarise the question before answering, concise, clear answers are better.

When responding to questions on computer programming, please use only tabs for indentation, follow the Roblox Lua Style Guide (though some inline code commenting is fine to help with explaining things), and favour guard clauses over nested if/elseif statements where practicable to do so.

ahh yes, the dangling parenthesis 😭

if you use VSCode or VSCodium, you can install the Lua modules which will show you where you have errors

[gentle haven]

THERE IS AN LUA MODULE?

I am so dumb

oh yeah

That is nice

[gritty geode]

see the error at the bottom when i delete the bracket

[gentle haven]

wait

how

That appear

I no see that

oh

Found it

[gritty geode]

ctrl + shift + Y 😊

you're not dumb, you're already using vscode 😊

[gentle haven]

Had it cause it allowed me to merge all the editor programs into one

[gritty geode]

nope, the new NSGDD mod uses redscript to directly modify all the meshes

very clever!

[gentle haven]

oh, interesting

[gritty geode]

i do have some newer code i haven't committed

[gentle haven]

rc2 or even newer?

Because i added rc2 to my fork

with the modification of WoaDmulL

[gentle haven]

also with this, would it be useful to make a compatibility toggle

[gritty geode]

i knew i had this somewhere 🤦‍♀️

i just saw some things that can be tidied up, but i'm leaving them alone rn because i don't have time to test

but this should work fine. i just added an "Off" option for VRAM tho

[gritty geode]

which modification?

[gentle haven]

uhmm

this #1224890336833179749 message

[gentle haven]

Is it okay if i commit this to my fork?

[gritty geode]

oh, yes sure

I thought I'd already added it

[gentle haven]

oh

no

?

wait what

[gritty geode]

it's all good, I remember adding WoaD's change but must not have 😜

there's several things that can be simplified

[gentle haven]

no in the new one it has

but i had the old rc2 at first

i saw that you added it to this version

[gritty geode]

ahhh okay 😂

[gentle haven]

Should I add the NSGDD compatibility toggle i was trying to make (I ask this cause i don't know if it will be useful

[gritty geode]

what would that do?

[gentle haven]

Disable the precache and minstreamingdistance lines to allow NSGDD to do those so it doesn't conflict

[late vine]

Just tested the new NSGDD and even after commenting out the PreCache and Minstreamingdistance from U+, I still have issues

Ads flicker like crazy and buildings disappear depending on distance

similar to how they would with DistanceBoost

am I missing something?

I deleted the PreCacheDistance and Minstreamingdistance lines completely from the Set VRAM file

are there any other files changing it

[gritty geode]

oh, i already put that in rc2 ... you can set the vram config to "off" 😊

[gritty geode]

from a quick look, it didn't look like the new NSGDD was actually using those values any more

for the record, i don't actually use it at all. i just use MinStreamingDistance and Precache to increase the draw distance of assets that they affect. for the ones it doesn't affect, i don't really notice in 99 scenes so i don't care. its' only when you go looking for it that i notice. some people might be more sensitive

i do use his Environment and Veg LODs though

[gritty geode]

v4.0-rc2 notes

• Add an "Off" option to VRAM for compatibility with Not So Good Draw Distance mod (unable to test)
• Improve logic for enabling PTNext to make it more robust (unable to test)
• Fixes problem with bright vegetation with PTNext (unable to test)
• Tidy up and comment a lot of debug uptions (tested)
• Multiple cleanups/quality improvements to modes and quality (tested)

[gentle haven]

Oh, you actually fixed a lot

[gritty geode]

I did?

I totally don't remember 😂

[gentle haven]

I believe the things you said were the main (solvable) issues

Yeah, except the flickering

[gritty geode]

flickering?

[gentle haven]

The issue where the light emission is not consistent

The one i showed

But we don't really know how to fix that yet

[gritty geode]

oh! yes. when it hits more than 512 lights 😏

the only way I can think of is to remove the smallest / most insignificant lights from those areas

or maybe patch the exe

or path the shader

[gentle haven]

Isn't it an engine limit?

[gritty geode]

yes.... unless you patch the engine 😊

[gentle haven]

I don't think that works without using the source code

Aaah

Actually

It has been done before with other engines

I think

[gritty geode]

I know 😊

ShortFuse modified the CP post processing shaders

it may be possible to modify other shaders

[gentle haven]

in that case we should (like ShortFuse said) use pix to find out

[gritty geode]

yep!

there will just be a limit somewhere of 512 but there doesn't need to be

[gentle haven]

I wonder if that limit would be somewhere visible inside the shader

[gritty geode]

yes it will

[gentle haven]

How do you know?

[gritty geode]

because the shaders are what draw everything on screen

I expect it's just some limit they've set in there

so it will either be in the shader (e.g. if lights > 512 then lights = 512)

or more likely it's when the CVars are set is when the limit is imposed

so we'd need to find the reference to lights in the shader and remove it

(i.e. don't limit lights at all)

[gentle haven]

oh alright

I didn't know that shaders draw everything

I thought it was only some items

but okay, I'll take a look when i get back home

I'm sorry for asking so many questions

[late vine]

@gritty geode I am sorry to say this but after further testing, it seems like the issue is not actually caused by the 512 lights limit

Around 20-25% of the time it appears when there are less than 200 lights on screen, nowhere close to the limit

So it is probably caused by something else, but appears more often in areas that surpass the 512 limit

or... the reason could simply be the more lights on screen = the higher likelihood of us noticing it or the issue appearing

[gritty geode]

try changing light batch size to 512

[late vine]

I already did when you recommended it a while ago

doesn't seem to fix it

[gritty geode]

are you looking at the analytic light count?

[late vine]

yes

I just enable the UI and move around with a controller to test

some lights just stop casting light off screen with ReGIR, no matter how many lights are there on screen

[gentle haven]

Might it be something wrong with regir?

[late vine]

either that or they start aggressively flickering

[gentle haven]

Nvm that question

[late vine]

I think so

Probably something in the engine not playing nice with regir enabled

It is a shame because I simply can't go back to PT20 or 21 after trying ReGIR

but at the same time ReGIR can be the most immersion breaking

[gentle haven]

Sammi, didn't you say something about regir that had to do with screen space?

[late vine]

tbh I don't even play the game anymore I just am interested in what we can do with the limited PT

[gentle haven]

Also, is it very specific light sources?

[late vine]

Seems to be random

For example, some lights from light poles stop casting light off screen but the exact same light pole 5 meters away works properly

[gentle haven]

So it has to do with distance?

[late vine]

Reload the save, and now the light pole that was working properly doesn't work, but the one that was flickering is working good

[late vine]

not at all

[gentle haven]

Curious

[late vine]

Reload again and now both of them work properly, but another one 15 meters away stopped working

seems like there is some kinda limit somewhere

not allowing them all to work together at once

[gentle haven]

I think it might be some kind of cache limit or something

[late vine]

and it is not the 512 lights limit because this happens even in some rare areas with less than 100 lights

Oh and disabling SHARC cache to save fps and improve quality is actually not that good

I noticed that disabling SHARC is equal to enabling SHARC with Scene Scale 1000+

And doesn't affect fps at all

however

Without the cache, closed spaces which are ONLY illuminated by indirect lighting, become unplayable levels of distracting with all the flickering that happens as soon as you move the camera

You can test this with car interiors

Get in a car and park it in the sun or under a street light

preferably a car with back seats

[gentle haven]

But they re-enable when you move or not?

[late vine]

they work again when the light is in screen space

Honestly this whole thing gave me such a headache that I just stopped playing the game. I wish I could go back to the person I was before finding out about ReGIR and all these mods

lmao

I will just wait until the sequel

[gentle haven]

regir works by dividing the world into a grid right?

and then seeing which is more important, or something like that

btw how is metro going @late vine ?

[late vine]

yes this could be why it happens but it shouldn't be happening. I guess it happens because this is not a fully implemented feature by the devs and rather just brute forcing it

[late vine]

Amazing, I beat it a couple weeks ago actually. I will do a 4th playthrough in a month or two because I love the game

[gentle haven]

oh, i never managed to beat it

Currently trying to get the tugboat

on hardcore ranger

[late vine]

Taiga level?

[gentle haven]

yep

[late vine]

I watched a youtube guide for it

Genuinely the game was a 10/10 but that level on Ranger Hardcore alone made it a 9/10 for me

It is almost impossible in Ranger Hardcore

[gentle haven]

no it is not

Its not THAT hard

[late vine]

Well I meant it is almost impossible to do it while getting the good ending

to get the good ending you can't kill or knock out any of them

have to sneak by

[gentle haven]

wait what

I HAVE BEEN KILLING EVERYONE

[late vine]

yeah gg

[gentle haven]

I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE MULTIPLE ENDINGS

I'M SCREWED

[late vine]

Cooked

All good no spoilers

Also Metro is partly the reason I just gave up on cyberpunk. I realized I don't really care at all about the purist "PT or nothing" mindset. The game's Ray Tracing could almost challenge Cyberpunk's while running at 4k 120 fps without any DLSS

When you go back to cyberpunk afterwards even the small ghosting you used to be "fine" with is unbearable.

[gentle haven]

I run 1440p dldsr 80fps 85% usage

my cpu is bottlenecking me again

[late vine]

After a while I did DLDSR from 4k to 5760x3240 and used DLSS Quality (Internal resolution 4k)

still 90+ fps

[gentle haven]

oh i have updated dlss to newest

and use dlaa

[late vine]

Try going from that extra crisp image quality to Cyberpunk's 4k with DLSS Performance and ghosting, artifacting, 40 fps base frame gen

[gentle haven]

yeah

I also quit

Mostly waiting till ptnext works

[late vine]

same

I will maybe do another playthrough IF we can figure out the issues with PTNext

otherwise I don't think I will play the game again. Maybe once in a while boot it up just to drive around because I love Night City

[gentle haven]

I am still gonna do another playthrough anyway

Still need to finish PL

[late vine]

I am like 4 playthroughs deep and 3 with PL

so it is the same old for me

[gentle haven]

maybe if we keep talking we should go to dms

[late vine]

Some parts of the city I can drive through and find my way without any map at all

[gentle haven]

Because this is gonna start annoying people