▫️Cyberpunk 2077 Ultra+ 2.13 Patch Patch Patch Patch

[shadow heath]

My future kids will enjoy it maybe

[agile zenith]

i only just noticed i accidentally selected 2 different meshes, so the lodbonemask and material entities might be the same

[gentle haven]

Oh

[agile zenith]

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/13772

thats the mod the meshes are from

I just compared the vanilla asset from the modded version, they are identical besides the "castsRayTracedShadowsFromOriginalGeometry" checkbox

[gentle haven]

Don't think that will fix other items though

You can

even if you want to you can export the entire game as a json Edit: it creates every item as a seperate json

@gritty geode

[gritty geode]

i wouldn't say i WANT to 😂

[gentle haven]

You can also import them

So that will be easy

just need to figure out what setting works

[gritty geode]

i suppose we could export everything, make a script that looks for anything that doesn't have castsRayTracedShadowsFromOriginalGeometry set, and deletes everything that does, so we can see what's... not... shadowing

i guess my next question is with this method, what happens if we turn off RayTracing/EnableGlobalShadow

[agile zenith]

"useraytracingshadowlodbias" any idea what that might mean?

[gentle haven]

"castsRayTracedShadowsFromOriginalGeometry": 0, Taken from serriola_dry.mesh which i believe is badlands grass

it seems to be turned off, so that might indeed fix it

Glass panels also seem to be seperate meshes

From the vending machines

[gritty geode]

wow, okay

so, lots

why didn't they do this properly 😭

[gentle haven]

welp here goes nothing

adding all of cyberpunk into a project and seeing if i can export it

So we can check

[gritty geode]

https://tenor.com/cijXpSZF1F6.gif

[gentle haven]

Wolvenkit does not seem to like

[gritty geode]

wk has a command line too

[gentle haven]

oh

[agile zenith]

these are some vending machines edited, burito, v's appartment, lina's appartment

[gentle haven]

damn, did you go through each one seperatly?

[agile zenith]

just searched for vending, arranged by meshes, looked though a few, and added those for editing, edited and packed

[gentle haven]

ah okay

Wk is still adding to project

Don't think it is gonna work like this

[agile zenith]

kinda hard to tell what / where these are

[gentle haven]

i think that is the back of a vending machine

taht is what it looks like

[agile zenith]

its the front actually

[gentle haven]

oh

[agile zenith]

you can rotate them, they are just meshes

[gentle haven]

UHM

[agile zenith]

yes that is what you get when using to many files at once, its a pita

gotta just wait it out

[gentle haven]

i am

[agile zenith]

#1224890336833179749 message sojasil is included

[gentle haven]

It just does not like what i am doing

[gentle haven]

sojasil?

You gonna test?

[agile zenith]

yeh but v's appartment

[gentle haven]

Was there anything there not properly casting shadows?

[agile zenith]

why would it do it properly if the thing isnt enabled?

[gentle haven]

dunno

But you kinda have to notice a difference to know if it works🤣

[gritty geode]

burritos 😂. critical improvements

[gritty geode]

i have to post this to psiberx 😂

[gentle haven]

uhm it is going over my spotify

[gritty geode]

quick, release path traced burritos mod. we'll be famous on the internet 😂

[gentle haven]

YAYA

[gentle haven]

fine by me

[gritty geode]

it could take several hours tbh

[gentle haven]

uh oh

It did a thing

Stuff is moving

[gritty geode]

idk tho. hogwarts took a few hours to unpack

[gentle haven]

at light speed i must say

The log is going beserk

[gritty geode]

they have some amazing devs on wk

[agile zenith]

difference smifference

[gritty geode]

street lights flicker outside

[gentle haven]

the logs are stilll going

how many files does cyberpunk consist off

[gritty geode]

@minor smelt is there any way i can pin things to this thread?

[gritty geode]

hahaha

"what have i gotten myself into" 😂

[gentle haven]

that is indeed what i am asking

It is going through vents now

[gritty geode]

are you just exporting the json?

[gentle haven]

Nope

Importing to project

[gritty geode]

how much drive free space do you have

[gentle haven]

That has to be done befor i can export

[agile zenith]

Massive gains, big improvement i rate 10/10

[gentle haven]

uhm it is filling my c drive

Uh oh

that might be a problem

It is starting to break

Yep

My drive is full

crap

okay

we assign more space to c and try again

Does it use more space than cyberpunk though

Because it is unpacked

sort of

[agile zenith]

bump

[gentle haven]

nothing is loading not even the default folders

I borke it

there we go again

It died

i have files now which i do not know the location of

usefull

[gritty geode]

yes it will use a lot more

if it's unpacking Oodle textures, their compression is insane

[gentle haven]

I can't retrieve the space

Its just gone

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

okay so not like that

[gritty geode]

what r u bumpink?

[gentle haven]

Anyone know where wk might put files

I would like to have that storage space back

[shadow heath]

somewhere in appdata I presume

[gentle haven]

yep found it

here but cant find the actual files

Who made wolvenkit?

nvm

[gritty geode]

psiberx and several others

[gentle haven]

That is not wolvekit

[gritty geode]

you should be able to set the export path in its preferences ?

[gentle haven]

Ah, i was asking for the appdata folder

[gentle haven]

that is actualy really smart

okay not in appdata

math is not mathing

i click one folder it says 100 gigs and then i look in the following folders and its just gone

[agile zenith]

@gritty geode could you try that nicola thing again with this mod?

[gritty geode]

the Nikola vending machine?

[gentle haven]

didn't find the files just found something else big

[gritty geode]

I can't rn I'm sorry 😭 I can later

[agile zenith]

this vending machine, on that location

[gritty geode]

the only thing I did was untick force all shadows and force global shadows

[gentle haven]

okay gonna try again but only with meshes this time

[agile zenith]

where is that location?

[gentle haven]

okay

it broke the moment i clicked the checkmark

[gritty geode]

right out front of H8

[agile zenith]

i was just there 😦

also how do you disable that global shadows?

[gentle haven]

seems like switchy in ultra plus debug

Here goes nothing 2.0

log going beserk again

[gritty geode]

if you have U+ beta installed it's in the debug panel, if not you can do `GameOptions.SetBool("RayTracing","EnableGlobalShadow",false)

and maybe GameOptions.SetBool("Editor/RTXDI","ForceAllShadows",false) 🤔 ... i'm not really sure what that's doing, but surely it's "fake shadows"

[agile zenith]

i hate fake shadows

nasty bunch those

[gentle haven]

it is still broken

it says they are imported but it is not responding

My drive survived this time

[agile zenith]

also just visited that location, and that is a separate mesh, not included in the file

i don't have any time now to make a new one, i gotta go sleep soon

[gentle haven]

I already thought so, it looks like the glass is seperate

if the export of the meshes works, we should be able to easily fix all of them

other solution is that we look for the broken ones and do them manually

[gentle haven]

goodnight

That is a lot of meshes

Don't think exporting everything is going to work

meshes also become huge

it is gonna have to go the manual way

[shadow acorn]

The future is now old man

I agree with @agile zenith . We'll see it in a few years

[shadow acorn]

Did you see that path traced pizza mod? It's glorious

[late vine]

Oh shit seems like you guys figured something out

Hopefully it works

[gentle haven]

we did a thing

[late vine]

I don't know why you thought exporting the entirety of game files on a disk as small as 240 GB was a good idea 😭

[gentle haven]

I did not expect it to go on c

I was hoping it would export on D

Btw you know where i could find ficus trees?

[late vine]

no clue lmao

I am gonna sleep in a minute I just dropped in to see if there are any updates

[gentle haven]

goodnight man

[late vine]

good night and good luck to you guys

Really excited if it works

[gentle haven]

i wonder if it does anything

I know i adjusted this tree

actually

It seems to be casting shadows on itself

We are gonna have to null the wind like cyanide did it seems

or

I could see what happens if i delete the submesh

it works differently than clothing it seems

It seems it works

Somewhat

Don't know how to get rid of black mesh

Gonna do some testing tomorrow

I am going to sleep now

Bye bye

[gritty geode]

Nvidias approach is commercially genius, but technically dumb. the smartest way to do AI is with analog chips that store neuronal weights as voltages. trying to store and calculate weights digitally is expensive, but doing it in the analog domain is cheap (multiplying and dividing many voltages is virtually instant). groq (not grok) makes chips that are 15x faster than Nvidias newest Blackwell at large language models because they're designed for AI vs Nvidias adapted GPUs. Nvidias approach is technically dumb.

BUT, their technology is ready now, and can be scaled now, and your stuff will run on it without having to make changes. this gives them a huge commercial advantage.

[gritty geode]

nn 😊

[gritty geode]

yes that's the mesh deform bug. it happens on cloth as well I think. I wonder if it happens with global shadows disabled

the tree looks nice though 😊

back to work for me

good work guys 😊

[gentle haven]

Can't sleep, but that screenshot was with global shadow disabled

But there might yet be a way to keep the wind and get rid of the black mesh

[gritty geode]

true. rrgghh why don't they fix it

how do these things not bother them?

do they have no OCD people there

tears clothes

[gentle haven]

I don't know

It's annoying

[gritty geode]

yes 😭

[late vine]

guys you are not gonna believe this

I found a way to fix every single bug

[gentle haven]

?

[late vine]

Just play the game and any issue you encounter, pretend it is a visual glitch in V’s cyberware due to the relic malfunction

Works 100% of the time

[gentle haven]

Nope

Not gon work

[late vine]

It worked for me

lmao

The game is really fun once I stop focusing on the very smallest details

[gentle haven]

In that case the relic would be one hell of a drug

[late vine]

I mean the worst bugs I get are some black shadows on trees

Close enough

There was this mission though, where the entire world didn’t load

Had to reload my save twice

[gentle haven]

That's what i mean

[late vine]

and this bar in dogtown, where nothing smaller than a chair casts any shadows

In any mode

PT 2.0/2.1/Next

[gentle haven]

Hmmm, are those other meshes?

Gonna have to look into that

[late vine]

Dogtown has way more of the same issues that the vanilla has probably because most of my mods were made before Phantom Liberty was even announced

So most of my visual improvements from mods don’t apply to dogtown

Anyways I was gonna sleep like 2 hours ago lmao

that’s enough for today

good night

[gentle haven]

Good night

[gentle haven]

It is strange though they look like the default debris that rt debris should fix

Welp

[gentle haven]

I should go too

[gritty geode]

oh I think I know the one

[gritty geode]

yes that's a vanilla bug too

[gritty geode]

yes, and yet I've seen the lack of shadows reported from before U+

[agile zenith]

yeh so i made 2 different mods, one with cast rays, and one with cast rays + the lodbias switch, both had no effect, im kinda done shooting a shotgun at a thing and hoping it works, because i lack the required knowledge to actually fix it. So this is kind of fruitless. Would be nice if it where this easy though.

just in case anyone else wants to try their luck, im fairly sure this is the mesh

GameOptions.SetBool("RayTracing","EnableGlobalShadow",false) im fairly sure all shadows visible with this setting are rasterised

[gritty geode]

perhaps... why do vending machines mostly not appear in reflections then either (with SSR off)

it does *look* like a shadow map

[agile zenith]

idk but when you put in that console command, the shadow angles change too i think

honestly i don't mind putting in some work trial and erroring, but this already took me 2 hours or so, just shooting stuff at the wall hoping something sticks, not really knowing what to do. So that is a rabbithole i rather not venture with this little background knowledge

[gritty geode]

fair enough! 😊

[gentle haven]

That sucks

[agile zenith]

this doesnt mean that the method doesnt work btw, like i said not really knowing how this all works/lacking info to even be able to judge it

[gentle haven]

Did you modify the panel?

Because with a lot of vending machines that is a different mesh

And the vending machine itself seems to be casting shadows correctly

[agile zenith]

there are 12 vending machines that look like it, many panels that look like it, there is an island mesh individual meshes etc, i think i edited ~50 or so that looked like candidates that might work, but in between restarting crashing, and not even knowing if this is the right aproach im kinda done trying tbh, there are like a quintillion different parameters that can/need to be triggered, or setting them might break things, i am way out of my depths here

[gentle haven]

I understand your frustration

But you can check the asset name with redhottools

Then see if it is ajusted

[gentle haven]

sorry I didn't say this earlier

Maybe we should compare the parameters of an already PT asset to a non-PT asset

See what is different

Is there an asset which we know for a fact that it is included in PT? @gritty geode

We do know that it might decrease performance, right?

usefull

[gentle haven]

wait, rasterized, so not rt?

[gentle haven]

Vending machines are magical beings which only exist within the screen space realm

[late vine]

Guys does anybody know if the improved ads draw distance is still not working with Ultra+?

[gentle haven]

I don't think it was neceserally not working with ultra+ i believe it was just not working properly in general

i guess this was the issue

combined with this not being said first

[late vine]

Alright thanks

[gentle haven]

unless anyone wants to correct me ofcourse

[late vine]

I downloaded it, gonna test

[agile zenith]

worked for me last time i tried it

where on earlier versions it broke it, where if you where in normal lod 0 range the object would not be there, but it would still render in full lod 0 while being further away

[gentle haven]

hiya

[gentle haven]

Btw has there been any progress on the CET front?

[late vine]

same it worked for me too

Btw I tested reLIGHT in combination with Ultra+

no archives

just the xl files

then I checked the logs

very few errors actually

[error] |WorldStreaming| ##reLIGHTdeFOG.xl: Sector "base\worlds\03_night_city_compiled\default\ep1\exterior_-9_13_0_1.streamingsector" doesn't exist

things like this

[error] |WorldStreaming| ##reLIGHTenvCLEANER.xl: The node #417 has type worldStaticParticleNode, but the mod expects worldTriggerAreaNode.

and this

nothing else

only with cleaner and fog there are a couple errors in 2 hours of normal playing

[gentle haven]

that is indeed a part which is only included in the archive which the xl file is requesting

[late vine]

but if it doesn't exist that means it just behaves like vanilla right?

[gentle haven]

or

[late vine]

the mod doesn't do anything to that part

because I didn't notice any issues whatsoever

[gentle haven]

for this one he might just have gotten the node number wrong

[gentle haven]

it should

Archivexl should skip it if it is not correct

[late vine]

Yeah that is good

It is much fewer errors than I expected

I don't like the archive because it has shit ton of bugs

[gentle haven]

it was only like 6 streamingsectors that were replaced

i believe

[late vine]

Yeah I am fine with that

if he made a separate archive JUST for relight I would use it

until then, I will take what I can get

[gentle haven]

i don't think it is that easy

[late vine]

I mean it could be the same archive but remove the stuff about weather, rain, sun brightness etc

[gentle haven]

Yeah, but i don't think env's would work anymore then

[late vine]

right now, you are forced to use those tweaks if you wanna use the archive even just for relight

[gentle haven]

I believe it integrates with the env

[late vine]

ah okay then

anyways my point was to confirm that reLIGHT.xl files without the archive works just fine 90% of the time

in case anyone doesn't want the other changes that come with the whole archive

[gentle haven]

no errors does not mean relight is working fully

there is parts missing

[late vine]

well yeah but worst case it just behaves like vanilla

and some stuff is skipped

some fixes better than no fixes

[gentle haven]

true

But without the archive i guess it is leaning more towards no fixes

i wonder where BabaBooey88 went though

he seems to still log into nexus

[gentle haven]

Outside of H8 right?

Sorry for the amount of messages

[woven island]

I think there is just a base archive for relight, there is no need for the full GITS archive, unless you were already talking about that light version one

[agile zenith]

its not neceseraly going to crash the game, its just that parts of what he did don't work or dont work as intended

[late vine]

Yeah I was already talking about the most basic one. I am not interested in anything except reLight from his mod. I don’t like LUTs or anything that changes default weather or anything changing the colors etc. I am only interested in more accurate path tracing

[gentle haven]

@agile zenith Could you explain?

[gentle haven]

rt debris also just edits this one

so it seems to just be that value

[gentle haven]

The vending machine is one mesh called vending_machine_o_nicola_mproxy

It was not what you did

now to see if it fixed it

nope

[agile zenith]

i did that one too

its called island

look in that last file and you'll see it

[gentle haven]

last file?

[gentle haven]

this one?

[agile zenith]

i already removed all files from my pc

[agile zenith]

yes

[gentle haven]

but you did not modify the mesh

[agile zenith]

if you say so

[gentle haven]

gameplay folder is nowhere

but maybe

If both are used

it works

[agile zenith]

idk man i gave up

[gentle haven]

I am just brute forcing it

nope

did not work

shit

ITS ONE SIDED

THAT IS THE ISSUE

It does cast shadows

the material for the screen is just one sided

That explains this line

hmmmm

How does one fix that

God only sosuine know that as far as i know

[gentle haven]

might not only be the screen

btw the hair patch does not even use that setting

uhm

That is a lot of changes for one hair

The one from sosuines mod + vanilla for those who want to reverse engineer it

My guess is we can fix it by recreating this

[gritty geode]

wow

morning

[gentle haven]

good morning

[gritty geode]

the only thing I can think of is the walls in the afterlife, by turning off SSR blending and seeing what's still reflected

I haven't had a chance to work on the U+ CET yet. I think the main thing that needs to happen is to use Detector() to check when the player is in game. I might be able to take a break off work today for an hour and do it

sorry I'm slow, I'm the ceo and it's a really critical time right now 🤪

[gentle haven]

don't worry about it

[gritty geode]

hmm. well given what we know what would bringing these assets into PT achieve... proper reflections... the few meshes that don't have shadows (the bar in Dogtown)

I'm worried about what Rem said, that disabling global shadow gives raster shadows

what I don't understand is how can they do path tracing without shadows??

that goes against everything I've read

[gentle haven]

Raster shadows are known for being sharp right?

[gritty geode]

no not necessarily

they usually look pixelated depending on the resolution

[gentle haven]

Then why would the raster shadows cause the vending machine shadows to be incomplete

[gritty geode]

which is how they look on trees when we turn off global shadow

I think maybe as you say because it's not considering 1-sided materials?

[gentle haven]

hmm

[gritty geode]

which brings me back to the first question ... how tf can you even disable only shadows in a path traced scene?

wtf have they done

[gentle haven]

Break quite literally every law of physics

[gritty geode]

my original thought in doing this was ... well if some stuff isn't in the PT scene and causing inconsistencies, let's see if we can bring it into the PT scene

[minor smelt]

optimizations likely to make it actually performant?

[gritty geode]

now i just have more questions

[gritty geode]

but this is the thing... the whole point of path tracing is everything can be done at once, instead of as multilayer raytracing

so if they're doing path tracing AND multilayer, it has to cost more

[gentle haven]

Does raster normally decrease quality after 1 meter?

[gritty geode]

the most performant is doing just a single path tracing

or, in the case of separate DI and GI, doing 2 stages of path tracing

but doing 2 stages of path tracing ... and fake lighting, and fake shadows ... is insane

and fake reflections

[gritty geode]

no... it depends on the resolution

[minor smelt]

Maybe it isn't true full PT, so actually more of a hybrid approach like in AW2

[gentle haven]

That is what it is doing with global shadows off currently

[gritty geode]

it depends a lot on the engine

deferred raster shadows can look almost identical to ray traced shadows

[gritty geode]

it seems to be

and it's different outdoors vs indoors, too

[minor smelt]

Yes, then it is wise to not trace that aspect at all right and just use the rasterized version. That's at least how some aspects of AW2 work to keep performance up

[gritty geode]

i just don't know how you can trace a scenes bounces but not the shadows... since a shadow is just a lack of bounces

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/humble-light-ray-of-light-gif-8990654

currently what it is doing with global shadows disabled

[gritty geode]

and i can't see how it's not less performant to do path tracing AND stuff

[gritty geode]

yes. that does look like raster

[gentle haven]

well shit

[gritty geode]

it doesn't mean it is

but i just don't see how it can be path traced

you can't do path tracing without shadows

[gentle haven]

so disabling global shadows disables rt shadows

[gritty geode]

i think so

[gentle haven]

Maybe else it uses just rt shadows, so it kind of just switches between the two

that sucks

[gritty geode]

if it has no shadows without adding RT multilayer shadows, that means it has no PT light either

which means the sun isn't path traced

[gentle haven]

It's more full RT then PT

[gritty geode]

yes basically RT with PT bounce lighting from emissives and specific objects

when you're indoors, local lights are used, which are path traced

but not outdoors

[gentle haven]

welp, then i don't know how to fix it

[gritty geode]

what it means is there is actually not very much difference between RT+PT and PT

the difference is ambient occlusion... because AO is broken in RT on CP

Krush added Complete RT to RT+PT, and guess what, it looks like full PT https://imgsli.com/MjU3NzY1

[gentle haven]

cdpr just lazy

[gritty geode]

rrrhh

i wonder what RT+PT looks like with AO working

i'm guessing basically indistinguisable from PT

[gentle haven]

probably like PT

[gentle haven]

yeah

[gritty geode]

just 20 fps faster

[gentle haven]

big upgrade

You could try with ssao reshade.

dunno

annoying, it should be so easily fixable

But if it were to be something like rtpt then why would it be ghosting

it makes no sense

hmmm

cubies are supposed to be decalled wall

ah

The cubies are the reflective parts

[gentle haven]

so that also happens cheaty

[gentle haven]

ah

the reflective parts are the actual wall showing

the rest is an overlay

the actual wall

The overlay becomes dark

When not in screen space

Dont think it is fixable

[late vine]

I tried RT+PT and I am sorry but it is nowhere close to actual PT in scenes where differences are more easily visible than the example you gave

I think Cyberpunk is still doing PT, just not fully and uses some tricks

[late vine]

The sun is also path traced, do we even need proof of it? There is a massive difference between PT and RT or RT+PT

I still think it is simply some objects not being in the PT space

If it was raster shadows, then there is no explanation for one object casting shadows from the light source, but the EXACT same object 2 meters to the left casts no shadows from the same light source

The light is path traced and the non-shadow-casting object is not interacting with the PT space

[late vine]

but idk, maybe I am wrong. I mean I would love to gain an extra 20 fps while the game looks the same

But the fps cost is there for a reason. I can million percent guarantee if we managed to create a mixed RT+PT mode or whatever that fully or at least 98% matches the Path Tracing with ReSTIR and ReGIR and all that stuff, then the fps cost would probably end up similar.

I mean the devs worked with Nvidia engineers themselves for at least a year or more on Path Tracing and it had been in constant development since before Patch 1.62 all the way till a month or so ago. If there was really a way to gain free 20 fps while keeping visuals the same, I am sure they would have implemented it by now.

Especially considering how they were not afraid to use tricks to save on performance as we can see.

To be honest even if we did somehow manage to make this game into pure Path Tracing with no tricks, I doubt it would be even remotely playable on a 4090 if you want to play at the same resolution. We will probably have to wait minimum another 4-5 years before pure blender levels of Path Tracing is playable in real time on consumer PCs.

[gritty geode]

no that's not how it works... if we can switch shadows between RT and raster while it's doing "path tracing", then it's not true path tracing

of course i don't know what they've done, though. but the fastest way to do path tracing with ReSTIR or ReGIR is to only do those methods, and not have to compute other things (shadows reflections)

but i think the highest probability is it can't be changed or fixed without changing their internal PT / RT shaders

the fact that tree shadows don't move with global shadow is a big problem... it tells us there is definitely a separate scene constructed for the shadows

• in one scene, the mesh deform (trees moving due to wind) is traced for lighting on the tree itself
• in another scene, the mesh (without deform / wind) is traced for the shadow
  this is the whole problem PT is trying to avoid

in full PT you don't have separate deferred rendering or scenes. it's just one scene that's traced. cyberpunk is tracing multiple times... granted it seems to be doing it "fairly efficiently" due to some trickery, but in theory pure path tracing will be faster

[late vine]

Yeah I understand that. I thought it was obvious from the very beginning that it was not completely pure Path Tracing. You could see some reflections or reflection details disappearing outside screen space all the way back when they first introduced PT more than a year ago

I didn’t know we were planning to turn the game into full no-compromises PT

but yes obviously it would be faster if everything was 100% in PT space and no raster was involved

[shadow heath]

The tracing is done against the simplified BVH representation, they can just toggle the animation for certain effects to save performance

[gritty geode]

yes but this is my point, in full PT I don't believe there is a separate BVH. not that I've seen in any papers, or Zyanide' site anyway

[shadow heath]

You could still use a BVH to save performance because it's not like full triangle accuracy is needed for most things.
Full "proper" PT just would be computing all the effects in one go

But ReSTIR is an algorithm for diffuse lighting only

[agile zenith]

i think the "global" part is refering purely to sun/moon light in CPK , also there is raytraced ssao shadows somehow to.

[late vine]

But if I remember correctly, it is possible to use a simpler BVH

It doesn’t have to be separate

[late vine]

ReSTIR is not just GI. ReSTIR DI also exists

[agile zenith]

i think these tricks are used because the pathtraced lighting just doesn't deliver enough luminance. So they make the eye's "glow" in some situations, because other wise they are insanely under exposed. I also think that just relying on pathtraced lighting in a lot of situation where there isn't enough light just leaves your character like a sparkly mess.

[gentle haven]

yes, but lights aside they also did not integrate the decals properly

[shadow heath]

Diffuse lighting is everything that's not reflections

[late vine]

oh my bad I thought you meant global illumination

[shadow heath]

ReSTIR is not used for specular lighting

Don't even know what they use for it

[agile zenith]

i don't think its about the performance persee, just artistic design. If they build the game up using path tracing only they likely didn't have to use this many hacks. Or tweak the roughness factor of bounces in such a way that it actually properly exposes scenes

[late vine]

I was literally JUST about to type this lmao. It could also be simply that they just designed the game almost half a decade before PT was implemented

[agile zenith]

i think ssr carries color better than the pathtracer used, they likely wanted those panels to "pop" more

[gentle haven]

But the pathtracer is completely ignoring any decal which causes very strange reflections

[shadow heath]

Aren't those transparent geometry?

[gentle haven]

What, decals?

[agile zenith]

i know, but they likely had a good reason for it, just like they use level 1 lod for reflections instead of level 0

[gentle haven]

Goddamnit they do that too??

[agile zenith]

they use the same hack on a lot of transparent objects, ssr only on those glowing fishes for instant or some of the floating ads etc

[shadow heath]

Aren't glass materials not using PT either

All transparency basically, no?

[late vine]

I agree with you. I don’t mean to sound condescending or anything and the devs did cut unnecessary corners here and there, but the chances are, they cut most of these corners for a reason. I mean surely we aren’t going to be sitting here pretending we know better than Nvidia engineers and game’s own developers.

[shadow heath]

The reason is just performance

Alan Wake 2 also blends with SSR

[late vine]

yeah, also has rasterization mixed in

and baked shadows/lighting in some places

[shadow heath]

that was annoying

you can see it break in many places

[agile zenith]

player characters have a baked in shadow, that just rotates with your character, and can lag behind it for a sec on so lol

[late vine]

I think we can start complaining about it once we have hardware that doesn’t struggle to run it at Native 4k 30 fps even with all the tricks 😂

[agile zenith]

yeh that was my first thought too, i mean i like the ambition modders have, but you will have to do 2x the amount of work that a full team did for a year or 2

first to figure out how it works, then realise why they used these "hacks" and then doing it the proper way 😄

[late vine]

Hell, I would even pay money if someone actually managed to convert the game into full PT without any tricks or flaws

[late vine]

and then probably realising not even the 4090 can run it properly now

[agile zenith]

they dont use PT, inside the cars they are disabled, likely for playability reasons. but most glass reflects the surrounding perfectly fine

[late vine]

Yup, and there is a reason it is disabled inside cars. If you use the GITS mod and enable reflections inside, the game becomes unplayable if you drive in first person

[gentle haven]

OI

I do that

[late vine]

I like how it is more immersive but I ended up not using it because I drive fully in first person

I couldn’t see shit

[gentle haven]

I also do

[agile zenith]

the thing is, this is not realy how ray tracing works i think. You just have 2 rays per pixel that is shot though the viewport, and if it hits something it takes on a bit of that color, and the second hit too, that just gets shown as path traced image

[late vine]

Yeah but 2 rays per pixel is insanely low

[gentle haven]

Okay, but no crying over things we can't do

[agile zenith]

so in theory the pathtracer already does 100% effort

[late vine]

In 2.0, you can configure bounces and rays

4090 shits the bed with anything more than 3 bounces 3 rays at 4k DLSS Performance

You would need way more than that but the current hardware isn’t enough

[gentle haven]

3 bounces is not needed for most things

[agile zenith]

not in cpk no, but i think with a proper tracer, more is better

[late vine]

I would say 3-4 bounces is minimum lmao

Maybe not in cyberpunk yeah sure

But still 3 rays per pixel is very low at an internal resolution of 1080p

[agile zenith]

like my main issue is illumination, sunlight bounces 200X in real life, if not more

[gentle haven]

IT is really amazing what they can do

[late vine]

good luck with that

[gentle haven]

lights irl bounce an infinite number of times

[agile zenith]

lol with mirrors that still need to be invented sure 😄

[late vine]

I think with a proper path tracer, for example for rendering, 3-4 bounces is the bare minimum and optimally you want 6-7

[gentle haven]

no actual light rays keep bouncing

You do not need mirrors for bounces

[late vine]

more than that barely makes a visible difference

[agile zenith]

every material absorbs light though

[gentle haven]

Correct

[agile zenith]

at one point all the photons are simply gone

[late vine]

no they don’t otherwise there wouldn’t be any darkness?

[gentle haven]

Do you know of somewhere with absolute darkness?

An actual void

[late vine]

Yes

Create a box that has no way for light to pass

[agile zenith]

if you close the door, the lights keeps bouncing so it never turns dark after you turn of the light 😄

it will click in a minute i think

[shadow heath]

light loses energy from interactions

[gentle haven]

the ray still bounces

[agile zenith]

is it a ray or particle 😄

[gentle haven]

both

[agile zenith]

sorry is it a wave or particle

[late vine]

Both

[gentle haven]

idfk

[late vine]

Depends on the observer

[agile zenith]

is it space or time?

[gentle haven]

that question makes no sense

[late vine]

lmao

[gentle haven]

welp

[late vine]

Well, path tracers count light as a particle

since it would be easier to calculate than waves

and more precise

[agile zenith]

they are so biggoted, really

[late vine]

lmao

[gentle haven]

oh

i was wrong

[late vine]

anyways I was in the middle of a story mission let me get back to it guys

[gentle haven]

the max bounces for a mirror is 135

apparently

[gentle haven]

ok

[shadow heath]

No they don't

That would make no sense

[gritty geode]

restir can do DI as well, in fact ReGIR (PTNext) is likely using ReSTIRDI + ReSTIRGI

[agile zenith]

yeh idk why it would be anything other than a ray

[shadow heath]

I think terms are being confused here

[gritty geode]

Alan Wake 2 never attempted to do DI with PT

[gentle haven]

because it is radiation

Light = radiation

[shadow heath]

Diffuse lighting is the technical term for everything that isn't glossy/specular reflections

[gentle haven]

OH NO

[shadow heath]

direct and indirect lighting are part of diffuse lighting

[gentle haven]

light is @minor smelt

OOOOOHH

[agile zenith]

lights are photons, pathtracing = RAYtracing

photons act like particles AND waves 😄

[gentle haven]

Light is a sort of electromagnetic radiation

Look it up on google

and you will see

[agile zenith]

i had physics in school about 20 years ago 😄

[shadow heath]

PT algorithms don't physically simulate light, they simulate paths which are a good estimation

[agile zenith]

all the "jokes" i made before that you said made no sense where phicics related joke

[gentle haven]

We know

[gentle haven]

We're not just fission for laughs here.

[shadow heath]

I was mainly replying to the person who thought that PT simulates light as particles

[gentle haven]

oh, ok

[gritty geode]

in what way?

[late vine]

anyone knows why the gpu usage so low?

[gentle haven]

Maybe bottlenecked by vram

[late vine]

I have 24gb?

[gritty geode]

yes i know... my point is that ReSTIR can do all of it

[gentle haven]

still can get fully used

And past it

[late vine]

how to check?

[gentle haven]

task manager

performance

gpu

if it is using shared memory it is using your normal ram

[late vine]

It shows the same thing as MSI afterburner

18 GB used

no shared

[gentle haven]

then vram usage should be fine

Vram speed or ram speed might also bottleneck

[agile zenith]

or hwinfo, and add it to riva tuner

[gritty geode]

light is exactly EMR ... but Olek is correct inside a computer we simulate it using only the Raytracing Equation

[late vine]

clocks are fine, ram is DDR4-3600 with a 5800x3D

hmm

[gentle haven]

Yeah, doing it as particles might be a little bit too difficult

[late vine]

reloading the save fixed it

glitch i guess

[agile zenith]

for future reference:

[gentle haven]

ah

[gritty geode]

@shadow heath (restir doing specular http://www.zyanidelab.com/restir-gi-for-specular-bounces/)

[gentle haven]

I was about to go into cas and that sort of shit

[late vine]

thank you

[shadow heath]

The more recent ReSTIR PT which uses generalized resampled importance sampling (GRIS) can. But that is not what Cyberpunk got

https://research.nvidia.com/publication/2022-07_generalized-resampled-importance-sampling-foundations-restir

[gritty geode]

anyway, i still don't know what cdpr have implemented... and many of the reflections are still there when blended SSR is turned off.. it's mostly that many meshes aren't actually in that frustum

[gritty geode]

no i know

we're on the same page

[shadow heath]

They could hypothetically update it to use that

[gritty geode]

restirPT has been discussed in here before

[shadow heath]

But they won't

[gritty geode]

yes but i think technical debt of their early hacks means it will cost too much

[agile zenith]

https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/images/3333/5383570-1706192270.jpg

this is how they "pathtrace" mirrors

[shadow heath]

At this point it's more about Nvidia pushing it as the de-facto in their path tracing SDK for developers

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-surprised-face-little-boss-gif-alisa-gif-16133616529628653686

[gritty geode]

if they'd fully implemented PT to start with, updating methods would be a lot easier

yes

[shadow heath]

I'm not sure whether they do

it was probably too late to implement for Cyberpunk since the paper was only published in July 2022

also idk if Remix uses Restir PT, I assume it does?

[gritty geode]

i just mean if they had initially implemented PT in v1.6x without hacking multilayer ... if they'd actually moved all assets into the PT frustum ... they would be able to upgrade as nvidia upgraded

for example nvidia released sharc and regir as fairly easy low-cost upgrades, but CDPR hasn't been able to implement them fully

[shadow heath]

this whole effort was pushed by Nvidia so you probably have to ask them more than CDPR

they announced they were ditching the engine for future projects even before the PT update was shown

so you have to presume the whole thing was pushed by Nvidia

[gritty geode]

yes.. that's what i assumed too

[shadow heath]

so they weren't doing this thing with longevity in mind

hopefully the next big PT game uses the latest stuff

so it's properly unified

[gentle haven]

i hope so too

[gritty geode]

no.. i also think it's pretty obvious nvidia helped them with 1.6x ... but not so much with later updates

[gritty geode]

idk i think we're going to see a lot of UE nanite + lumen for a while

[gentle haven]

UE5 can also use full path tracing, so maybe a pt mode?

[agile zenith]

hardware lumen is basically a raytracer that is usable by gpu's to do the pathtracing already, pretty stunning results too

[gritty geode]

oh can it?

i didn't think UE 5.3 did realtime PT

UE has been able to do non-realtime PT for a while

[gentle haven]

WAIT 5.4 IS OUT

[gritty geode]

we turned it on for hogwarts

[gentle haven]

AYAYAYYAYAYA

sorry about that

[gritty geode]

https://dev.epicgames.com/documentation/en-us/unreal-engine/path-tracer-in-unreal-engine?application_version=5.3 yes its PT is not realtime

[gentle haven]

oh

[agile zenith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBQXyx9AUKA

[gentle haven]

EXCITING

[agile zenith]

i don't like this channel all that much, but he is always on top of things

[gritty geode]

nice

[gentle haven]

yay ue5

[gritty geode]

the difference between lumen + nanite isn't that much from real time path tracing tbh

[gentle haven]

interessting

[gentle haven]

i have noticed some issues

with lumen

[gritty geode]

even in unreal 4.27 in Hogwarts ... once we turned on RT skylight + RTGI, it looks very similar to full path traced

i wish we'd saved some comparison shots... i could do it again

[gentle haven]

of what?

[gritty geode]

Hogwarts Legacy with full path tracing vs raytraced skylight + GI + water etc.

Ultra+ for hogwarts comes very close to full path tracing

[gentle haven]

i have not played hogwarts legacy yet

[shadow heath]

also a recent UE5 commit made Nanite fully support skinned geometry

[gritty geode]

the base game doesn't look like this

[gentle haven]

i have noticed that

DAMn

that looks good

[gritty geode]

that was my first mod https://www.nexusmods.com/hogwartslegacy/mods/660

[gentle haven]

My whole family has played hogwarts just not me

[gritty geode]

but you can turn on full path tracing with a showflag command

[gentle haven]

And i was getting annoyed by ssr the whole time

[gritty geode]

it just takes like 2 minutes per frame 😂

[gentle haven]

damn

[gritty geode]

yes this turns on full RT reflections including RT water

raytraced water

it's all already in the engine idk why they didn't turn it on 😜

[gentle haven]

it is indeed very noticable

Most anoying part of ssr for me is the sides

[gritty geode]

yes, you can still see it even in this screenshot because i'm using blended SSR / RT

[shadow heath]

There's worse things, like UE5 developers shipping without Hardware Lumen because they forgot to check the box in the editor

In which case you cannot add it in any way

Happened with many games now

[gritty geode]

*cough* robocop

[gentle haven]

palworld did that i believe

[shadow heath]

Lords of the Fallen

[gritty geode]

sigh

[gentle haven]

ah, so almost all games do that

[gritty geode]

a big problem with UE is a lot of the default settings are just wrong

like stalling the CPU every 130MB, for example

how does that make sense when PCIe is GB/s

they have leftover defaults like that i don't think even Epic remember

it creates an artificial hammering effect in the streamer pipeline

BVH problems

[gentle haven]

https://tenor.com/view/christmas-cat-catmas-tree-shiny-gif-13136371

[minor smelt]

To my knowledge not as simple as just a toggle if you also want it to be performant. And maybe they don't want to spend precious QA time on it

[gentle haven]

it is though

Just suport for software go poof

ah

that might be the issue

[minor smelt]

Wdym exactly?

Also, users tend to max out settings and then complain when they get bad performance. Maybe that's why they didn't implement it

[shadow heath]

Software Lumen is what requires lots of hacks to be performant, design considerations

I am talking about developers compiling the game with no support for it, so you can't even force it

[gentle haven]

SETTINGS GO BRRRRRRRT

[minor smelt]

I think it is done in that case for this reason

[gentle haven]

software lumen no longer works

but

Lumen does work with vr somehow

Without becoming unplayable

[shadow heath]

Main reason is that the games are developed with consoles in mind which are limited to Software if you want to get decent performance, they don't even take into consideration PC users who could benefit from the quality and performance of HW Lumen. At least on Nvidia GPUs HW Lumen can have slightly worse performance but with huge quality gains

[gritty geode]

idk with Robocop Rogue City hardware lumen was disabled in the shipped game but can be enabled with a command

[shadow heath]

That means they still compiled the game with HW Lumen

[gritty geode]

in the demo it didn't make any difference to performance, but in the shipped game it does apparently

right

[shadow heath]

If you can force it and it actually works then they merely didn't expose it to the user

There's a bunch of games that simply compiled with support for it disabled, so the shaders won't be there and you can't force it

[gritty geode]

yes people were saying it's slow and stuttery ... but if you disable the CPU stalling, configure the streamer properly, and enable hardware lumen, it play extremely well

[shadow heath]

Cuz aside from the general lower precision and artifacts, so much stuff is missing with SW Lumen like skinned geometry and so forth

It would be appropriate for a game with very naturalistic environments like RDR2

or the upcoming Kingdom Come 2

can get away with it in those environments

[gritty geode]

mm, idk the details about that stuff... in robocop it didn't make a visual difference

[shadow heath]

but when it comes down to it it's Epic's fault for not making it default

[gritty geode]

yes i agree

[gentle haven]

i didn't even know about those defaults

welp

that gon make shit run smoother

[gritty geode]

that reminds me yet again i'm supposed to provide feedback to them

i have too much on my plate lol

[late vine]

Am I the only one not excited by lumen? 😭

I am a path tracing purist and I think lumen looks very bad compared to PT

Hardware Lumen is a big improvement over Software lumen but still not even close to actual PT

[gentle haven]

It does

[late vine]

I mean look at this

Then look at THIS

and that is just reflections which is easy to do

[gentle haven]

What game is that?

[late vine]

it is a youtube comparison

I think it is some puzzle game

[gentle haven]

Can it use both

I would play that

Looks really good with pt

[late vine]

Current full list of games supporting PT according to Nvidia

The game I showed is Desordre

[gentle haven]

Imma go check that out

Okay

Cheap it is

Gon buy that tomorrow

[late vine]

I desperately need more PT games

[gentle haven]

Desodre is 6 bucks

[late vine]

I played Alan Wake 2, 3 times not just because it was a great game but also because it looked good

Good graphics can make me replay a game lmao

[gentle haven]

Only game i replayed 3 times is prey

[late vine]

I am begging Rockstar to have PT for GTA 6 PC

[late vine]

banger

[gentle haven]

True

It is a really good game

[late vine]

It is kinda crazy to think even PS6 version of GTA 6 won't even look as good as Cyberpunk with Path Tracing from today

Nvidia is widening the gap immensely between itself and any PC/console with an AMD GPU

[gentle haven]

Yeah, kinda sucks though

Had to switch to nvidia just because of that

[late vine]

I was always Nvidia but only 60/70 series

Switched to my first high end GPU just for Path Tracing

and from now on I think I will keep buying the 90 series

[gentle haven]

I had a 6750 and went to the 4070 super

[gentle haven]

They expensive as hell though

[late vine]

Yeah but my plan is, I secure a 5090, sell the 4090 right after for like 800-900 and it basically pays for half of the 5090

I would sell before the 5000 series release but you never know what kinda crazy stuff will happen and you might end up without a gpu

[gentle haven]

Yes, that is the exact problem

[late vine]

Also every 2 generations or so I can ask my work to pay me for the PC

because I use it for "work"

(it is extremely overpowered for what I do)

[gentle haven]

Me too

My pc cost me like 900 bucks because of that

[late vine]

Mine was like 1200 for a $3000 build

[gentle haven]

Damn

[late vine]

Idk where the industry is going tho

Nvidia is so far ahead

and I don't see the gap closing

The prices gonna skyrocket

[gentle haven]

Probably. which sucks

[late vine]

As soon as AMD starts catching up, they are gonna introduce Path Tracing 2.0 TM which looks 2x better and can only run on Nvidia while AMD gpus get 7 fps

Just like how they did with DLSS 3 then DLSS Ray Reconstruction

[gentle haven]

Yep

Nvidia gon go monopoly mode

[late vine]

I mean, monopoly is only bad if they get stagnant

but they are not like intel

they constantly are improving and pushing the industry forward

so aside from higher prices, it won't be that bad if they go full monopoly

[gentle haven]

It's only bad when monopoly

Because prices go vroooooom

[late vine]

well if they raise the prices too high, people will stop buying

supply and demand

[gentle haven]

Yes but people will have no other choice if they want gpu

Ah

Wait

Only ones that will be screwed are bitcoin farmers

Ha

The only ones that need gpus

[late vine]

Are people even using these gpus for bitcoin anymore

[gentle haven]

Yes

They are

[late vine]

welp

Anyone knows the status of this mod currently?

Is there work being done behind the scenes?

I am curious about what is going to be the next improvement for PTNext (aside from bug fixes maybe)

[gentle haven]

I think only bugfixes can be done at this point

[late vine]

yeah I am fine with that

Aside from the bugs, PTNext is the best Cyberpunk has ever looked

Add some LOD and texture mods and it is gonna be the best looking game we will have until probably GTA 6

[gentle haven]

I don't even thing gta 6, would be able to top cp

[late vine]

Oh I know, the initial console versions will not even come close

The PC version could top it if it had PT

[gentle haven]

But the question remains if pc is gonna exist

[late vine]

but that is at least 2-3 years away

[late vine]

100% there is no way it won't

since there are no big AAA games with Path Tracing announced in the foreseeable future, I think Cyberpunk is all we got for the next few years

[gentle haven]

Probably

[late vine]

Which is not too bad because by then, RTX 6060 Ti will be probably be able to do 4k 60 fps Path Tracing for $500-600

[gentle haven]

But

Still indie games are amazing too

[late vine]

Yeah I got a few on my wishlist rn

Anyways imma go to sleep

good night man

[gentle haven]

Me too

Good night

[gritty geode]

beep boop

v4.0-beta11 (hopefully the last beta)

• This should fix the PTNext enabling / disabling. I haven't had a lot of time to test but it's been stable for me
• Disables global shadow in favour of global light for ALL PT modes (which also casts sun shadowss)... at the moment I believe "global light" is path traced global sun (or closer to) than global shadow, however this is highly experimental (hopefully the last experiment of the beta. Please let me know how it goes for you
• (Note, vegetation and cloth deforms still aren't tracked in the global light/shadow frustum, and some coloured translucent materials don't throw coloured light, which I completely don't understand how CDPR have managed this in what should be a single PT worldspace)
• Reduced sun shadow sharpness accordingly
• Added logging for entering/exiting game and disabling/enabling PTNext denoiser
• Separated modes into their own (internal) ini files for convenience
• Reduced intra-vehicle distance from 3.0 to 2.0 metres
• (Hopefully) fixed vegetation when using NRD
• Reduced rainmap batch size back to 1024 since apparently CDPR have fixed this issue in 2.12+
• Re-enabled shader execution reordering
• Reduced light grid size from 32 back to default (16)
• Increased local light batch size from 64 to 128 to prevent LL flickering
• Minor refactors and quality improvements

[late vine]

Amazing, thank you. Will do more testing tomorrow

Sure about the global shadow thing though? Last time I tested, Global Light with or without global shadow had a lot of issues with missing shadows

[gritty geode]

nope! completely unsure! 😂

[late vine]

and why light grid size reduced? did it have issues?

I had the grid size set to 64 and batch size 128 for experimenting and just left it there since I didn’t encounter issues

[gritty geode]

it's working great for me if it starts in that mode, and all shadows appear to be there, but i figure it's easy to revert, and if everyone says "this is amazing!" then we'll know, and if they say "this is terrible!" then we'll know! 😂

[gritty geode]

i have had some weird flickering issues, yes. but i think that's mostly due to the batch size being too low by default

i agree with 128 for that one. i don't think there's any advantage to splitting the light grid into 32 vs. 16... in which case i tend to stay with default values to avoid weird behaviours further down the pipeline

i think it's worthwhile actually benchmarking 16 vs 32 vs 64 on low and high end cards but i doubt it makes much difference

[late vine]

Wait does higher grid size mean… less grids?

I set it to 64 because I thought bigger number = must be better 😂

[gritty geode]

i believe it's just how many chunks the lighting is broken up in the deferred frustum view

haha, not always 😂

[gritty geode]

but i don't really know... that's what it is in UE from memory

[late vine]

alright I should have 3-4 hours to test this tomorrow. Will update

Mainly the global light

[gritty geode]

tyyyy ❤️

tell me if it's shit 😂

[late vine]

I have 3-4 save files at certain times of day in different locations that I had issues with

I will load them and see if it is better now

for future reference, I should disable global shadow, enable global light

and load the game with them setup like that

correct?

Also is there a fix for the Ultra+ CET panel not showing more than the first digit of the values?

[gritty geode]

you can also use AMM to change the time of day (under Tools) ... or weather etc

[gritty geode]

that's what i just tried loading in with, and it's what beta11 will do... tbh i didn't expect it to work but it seemed to work perfectly

[gritty geode]

oh can you give me a screenshot?

mine shows the whole values, how weird

it's these two values in ui.lua

[gritty geode]

Shizerek on nexus has done a big analysis of global light on vs off https://imgsli.com/MjU3MzA5/10/9

[gritty geode]

i don't think it's correctly enabling global light lol (beta11)

[subtle flame]

It seems that with Global Light ON foliage doesn't seem to be shadowed properly? Or is it technically more "correct" but I subjectively like foliage more with it off?

Gonna start testing the new beta in hopes of leaving RT+PT behind

[gritty geode]

it's looking way too bright for me... i'm wondering if foliage is rendered (and lit) separately, and global light is lighting it "again" ?

the brightness of foliage can be modified with these, but it's not doing anything live in-game (maybe it will if modified before loading)

Editor/Characters/RimEnhancement/Foliage/Foliage_SpecularCoefficient = 2.200000
Editor/Characters/RimEnhancement/Foliage/Foliage_FresnelCoefficient = 4.000000
Editor/Characters/RimEnhancement/Foliage/Foliage_ConstOffsetCoefficient = 0.000000
Editor/Characters/RimEnhancement_RayTracing/Foliage/Foliage_SpecularCoefficient = 2.200000
Editor/Characters/RimEnhancement_RayTracing/Foliage/Foliage_FresnelCoefficient = 2.500000
Editor/Characters/RimEnhancement_RayTracing/Foliage/Foliage_ConstOffsetCoefficient = 0.000000

[subtle flame]

Hmm maybe fixable with a change to the assets with an archive mod? I need to learn how to mod Cyberpunk so I can help haha. Maybe a good place to start is with Sosuine's Improved Vegetation LOD mod since he already has all the assets picked out and you would probably want to make a compatibility patch with it anyway since it is so popular.

Need to get his permission though

I'm gonna see what I can do

[gritty geode]

yes it's possible. i looked inside his vegetation LOD mod and can't even work out how it works 😂

[gritty geode]

oh it's okay to look and learn from existing mods... just not to publish anything

i've asked him a few questions in the digital dreams discord but i haven't seen him around the last weke

*week

[subtle flame]

Yeah of course. He is in the GudMods 5.0 discord mostly in the Cyberpunk section

It is basically HIS channel like this one is yours lmao

He spams out experimental mods and updates for people to test like a mad scientist 😂

[gritty geode]

yes, i don't go into gudmods

or rather, i left after getting tired of their childish crap

[subtle flame]

Yeah I'm just a lurker there mostly

[gritty geode]

v4.0-rc1

• Disabled global light (i can't fix it)
• Enabled global shadow
• Extended RT reflections to 8km for 'High'
• Minor performance and consistency fixes

[gritty geode]

that seems wise 😂

[subtle flame]

Just there for the mods since there are a lot of Witcher 3 exclusives there not on Nexus

[gritty geode]

yes that's what i went there for... for the witcher 1.32 RT shader mod (that i can never remember the name of 😭) lol

[subtle flame]

Lemme try out this new rc 😏

[subtle flame]

@gritty geode PTNext is so good now that it is a smooth experience to use 😩

Finally off of RT+PT since the other modes had too much ghosting for my liking

[gritty geode]

oh yay!

so rc1 is working okay?

[subtle flame]

Yeah so far. Unfortunate that global light didn't work out

[late vine]

Is RC1 replacing beta 11?

[gritty geode]

i knowww 😭

[gritty geode]

yes ... rc stands for release candidate

[subtle flame]

Yes it's already on Nexus too

[gritty geode]

i think it's basically 100% working (but tell me if it's not 😂 😭)

[subtle flame]

I'm just gonna "play the game" for once and lyk if I find anything 😅

I still get the shadow bug at the top of the screen like 1/4 of the times loading or reloading a save

[late vine]

I think I figured out what causes this

it is bright highlights in the scene when you load in

if you wanna avoid it, go to a nearby wall and stick your face to it

and save the game facing the wall

so that when it loads there are no unusually bright spots

[subtle flame]

Wtf lmao

[late vine]

works 95% of the time for me

no kidding

whenever I loaded a save facing any source or bright light source, the bug happened

9/10 times

so I am pretty sure it is caused by that

Weird bug

[subtle flame]

Yup just worked for me. So do you think it is always there just not appearant when saving against a dark background? AHHHHH that's going to bug me 😭

[late vine]

No idea lmao

it is so weird too

it “burns in” into your save

how is that even possible

[subtle flame]

Damn CDPR just needs to implement this fully themselves so Sammi is just responsible for tweaking and optimizations smh

[late vine]

Yup

they already have ReSTIR DI and GI

the only part of the Nvidia RTXDI pipeline that they haven’t implemented is ReGIR

ReSTIR (PT2.1) should be better than PT 2.0 with its naive bounces/rays most of the time

but their implementation is bad

so PT 2.0 with some tweaking looks just as good if not better

and PTNext is basically a tuned PT2.1 with ReGIR added on top, so it is by far the most superior

[gritty geode]

really 🤔

[gritty geode]

i dont' even know how you could make a bug like that if you were trying 😂

if anyone gets the shadow bug on loading a save could you please try something for me

• go into graphics menu, change your FOV > apply
• see if it's fixed?

someone in posts discovered this can fix some problems. i can easily change the fov for a split second to force this fix

[gritty geode]

just fly me to Poland, give me 3 devs for 4 weeks, i'll get everything sorted

fuck, i'll pay for the tickets!

[subtle flame]

Do you think Nvidia will get them to add Neural Radiance Cache that was just released? Since they want Cyberpunk 2077 to be a showcase game for PT

Let me try that fix real quick

The guy from CDPR seemed to hint at it in that DF interview for DLSS 3.5 with Nvidia.

[late vine]

Considering their SHARC Cache is barely working and actually causing just as many problems as it fixes… (at least with PTNext)

I wouldn’t hold my breath

[subtle flame]

Do you disable SHARC?

[late vine]

I won’t tell you what problems it causes, just enable it and enjoy because I can guarantee you won’t notice the difference 95% of the time. I didn’t even know until I stumbled upon it

[gritty geode]

maybe ... unlike ReGIR and SHaRC i can't see a "quick and easy" implementation guide from nvidia yet
... will they implement FSR3.1 ?

[late vine]

no because it kills your fps if you do that

[gritty geode]

imo sharc looks better running at SceneScale of 100 or 200

it may even fix that problem you're not talking about 😂

[late vine]

Is there a line about scene scale in the files

[gritty geode]

it costs though. which kind of negates part of the benefit 😂

[late vine]

I wanna test it

[gritty geode]

lemme see

[late vine]

how much does it cost from 50 to 100

[subtle flame]

So I tried to load the save with the burned in highlights and its now gone.....

[gritty geode]

yes it's in setquality.lua but hang on

[subtle flame]

I'll test the fov fix next time it happens

[late vine]

Change time of day to afternoon

look directly at the sun

and save

try it a couple times with different angles if it doesn’t appear

[gritty geode]

not a huge amount. to 200 is more expensive

here, use this

it'll be the first adjustible integer

[late vine]

changing works in real time?

[gritty geode]

yep!

[subtle flame]

Skipped time to test and then got that Meridith Stout booty call text 😭

Lmao

[late vine]

lmao

[subtle flame]

I'm about to be pegged

[late vine]

Alright I am on 4 hours of sleep since I woke up in the middle of the night so imma see if I can fall back asleep and if not imma test a little before work

[subtle flame]

Gn

[late vine]

I know I need to touch grass asap when I wake up at 4 am and first thing i do is check the discord for updates

[gritty geode]

gotta get the Dong of Whallopping 😂

night 😊

[gritty geode]

feelings

[subtle flame]

Alright well I'm unable to replicate the burn-in so I'll test the fov thing next time it happens

Wait just tested and the fov thing worked lmaooo

You could just ++ and -- the fov on every load to fix for now

[late vine]

No wayyyyy

[subtle flame]

HEY this wasn't meant for you. Go to sleep lol

[late vine]

Nah it is already ruined

Gonna have to slog through the day now

I hate when you make plans for the whole day and boom, wake up 4 hours earlier than your alarm and now you can’t fall back asleep

But hey, I got a few extra hours of free time now

Booting the game up in a sec

but first imma go through the files and edit them to my liking a bit 😂

[subtle flame]

Can you post your changes here? I'm curious since I don't know too much about all the PT settings Ultra+ touches

Also do you guys use RIS? Should I disable since I have reLight xl files installed or is that tooltip outdated?

[late vine]

I keep it disabled

I also use reLIGHT

[late vine]

Sure, I will

[subtle flame]

Thanks