▫️Cyberpunk 2077 Ultra+ 2.13 Patch Patch Patch Patch

[hybrid violet]

Ah I’ve just been copying the original formatting

[real ravine]

CTRL + SHIFT + I in vscode

[hybrid violet]

I’ll do that now

I just need to sort out the timer issue that’s popped up all of a sudden

Once that’s sorted ReGIR is golden

I'm quite proud overall of ReGIR Insane, its probably the highest quality I think PT can do right now with quantifiable gains

moreso its designed around 4k Balanced, so 1440p Balanced should be doable for 4080's, 4070's. 4k Performance as well for a 4080 easily

ReGIR Low should be an interesting choice, I think it can easily replace PT 2.0 for the most part, ReGIR Medium should also be playable for most GPUs

High imo, if you can go Insane do it and otherwise bank Medium performance probably, High is just for those who are FPS sensitive

[hybrid violet]

didnt seem to do anything

[real ravine]

do you have this extension installed?

[hybrid violet]

nope

honestly never used Lua before this, more of a C/C++/Python fan

easy enough tho

[real ravine]

install it, otherwise vscode thinks lua is just text xdd

[hybrid violet]

hmm

still not doing anything

[real ravine]

maybe you've got other keybinds, right click inside the document and you should have the "Format Document" option

[gritty geode]

oh great! ty 😊

what theme are you using?

[gritty geode]

yay, nice work 😊

[real ravine]

it was a screenshot from inside the github's diff

[gritty geode]

i'll try and get a super fast mode working again tomorrow

without spatialnumsamples

i don't think they're needed

[gritty geode]

yep that's how i always target it

"insane" users tend to be like "hit me!!!" ... they were the people turning on RT skylight and RT water in Hogwarts Legacy and getting 70 fps on a 4090 😂

high are like "i want insane settings but 100+ fps!"

[real ravine]

hogwarts is still running like ass, truly a broken mess.

have you tried xess 1.3 in cp77 yet?

[gritty geode]

do you use my ultra+ for that?

[gritty geode]

oh, no! how is it?

[real ravine]

i've tried everything there is, it still stutters like there's no tomorrow

[gritty geode]

what hardware do you have?

[real ravine]

pretty damn good. i dont like upscaling as a solution for gaining fps because devs cant optimize their games. i also dont like FG. FSR has no native resolution rendering, maybe it works with CyberFSR and a custom resolution, but FSR2.2 has a lot of shimmering. i really liked how xess looks overall, it also removes TAA which makes the game look like you have myopia. previously xess 1.2 had some weird ghosting issues, mostly trails. if it rained you had static vertical lines all over the screen xd. now with 1.3 the quality is way better, didnt see any imposing trails from ghosting as in 1.2, they've added native AA and it works way better than TAA + way better performance

[real ravine]

6950xt

im not trying to fix hogwarts, im not into playing games that much, i only like to fuck around with mods and reshade

[gritty geode]

oh nice, i hate that TAA look

all good, hogwarts is fixable, it's a pain in the butt though

[real ravine]

maybe it's a specific on my setup since i have a super ultrawide monitor and i'm not gonna play on a lower resolution than 5120x1440 😂 🔫

since the game doesn't stutter on a lower spec PC of my gf

[gritty geode]

haha, thay may be part of it 😂

they have a lot of their own UE plugins (or warner bros plugins) in there and i don't like a lot of them

[gritty geode]

I would have to see some footage even on a phone to tell you how to fix it, but I'd be surprised if it's not fixable.

[real ravine]

not worth the effort to fix a broken tech demo 🤣

[gritty geode]

most of Hogwarts issue stemmed from trying to keep the streamer cache 95% full at all times. so when it needs to stream new assets they have nowhere to go

also FG works really nicely on Hogwarts. it's very very smooth. unfortunately LukeFZ's FG breaks the FSR1 de-dither pass I've hacked in there but it's fixable with Reshade. Luke isn't sure why it's disabling FSR1

the games companies have been treating streamer caches like "caches" for years... the reality is it's somewhere between a buffer and a cache

a better name for it would be a "transmutation streamer" and not call it a cache at all

that reminds me I'm supposed to send an email to Epic on this topic 😂

[hybrid violet]

wasnt the HDD mode thing that fixed it, def that culling parameter

and formatted too

PrecacheDistance = 20.0
MinStreamingDistance = 40.0``` I think this is a good setting, 50/60 push PT too hard imo

I'd rather boost MaxNodes for more lights/geometry

[hybrid violet]

oh also my Override (its the sole INI I'm using)

to trigger ReGIR

[shadow heath]

REGiR is an improvement over Restir?

[hybrid violet]

ReGIR feeds ReSTIR, but its a world-space way of sampling lights vs the screen space way that ReSTIR usually uses

once the weird error log issue is fixed for the Fast Timer, ReGIR is ready for use

[hybrid violet]

so theoretically yes, definitely I'd say yes at Insane and to a degree High

Low/Med are more on what you value

[shadow heath]

I have a 4090

[hybrid violet]

I'm using DLSS Balanced at 4k 4090, getting a good 50-60FPS after framegen

highly playable

[shadow heath]

I just found this mod, are there any comparisons of what it adds over max

I saw some of the fixes it does

But didn't understand what it does to increase quality

[real ravine]

@hybrid violet can you also do a mapping so that we wont have to repeat all the logger/prints and if branches? for now i think it'll be enough to do as so:

    8: var.quality.LOW,
    10: var.quality.MEDIUM,
    14: var.quality.HIGH,
    20: var.quality.INSANE,
}

local quality = qualityMapping[shadingCount]
logger.info("Guessed quality is", quality)
return quality```

and logger.info(msg) instead of the print(" ---- Ultra...")

[shadow heath]

So there seems to be a pretty big performance hit? I think on 4K Balanced vanilla max averaged like 90 fps

[hybrid violet]

at some point yes, gotta head off to sleep then work

[hybrid violet]

yeah its a decent hit. this is in like the deep city though, and also on Astonishing density + all LOD mods

[shadow heath]

What are the working LOD mods for the game? Always has been the biggest issue for me

[hybrid violet]

big ones are Next Gen Environment LODs, Not So Good Draw Distance

prob dont use the Extreme version due to CTD issues, just Performance

[shadow heath]

do you have a list of recommended mods apart from those?

[hybrid violet]

dont take it as a bible or with support, what I'm using:

only one thats complex is the 01 Fuji and Relight stuff

rest is drop and go

if you have HDR or honestly in general (i dont know about SDR but I think it works) this mod is a must

reworks the actual LUT/Tonemapping code, not a reshade filter

[shadow heath]

yes I saw that one

[hybrid violet]

on ReGIR High (bit of smearing on far NPCs cause 2077 PT has a bug causing smearing when the camera is 100% still)

no spatial disocclusion samples, so no boost to areas being disoccluded due to I assume no motion vectors from camera movement

[gentle haven]

Is REGIR supposed to be used without RR? because with RR i see lights constantly changing brightness.

[hybrid violet]

with RR. Ray Reconstruction is two things

1. ReLAX denoiser instead of ReBLUR, its a superior denoiser inherently.
2. nvidia doing DLSS things to not half-res/downres the image along the way and feed the upscaler a high quality image

plus I think it enables ReSTIR GI (better way of doing Indirect lighting/secondary bounces on rays being traced, ambient light basically)

but with ReGIR its a different ballgame

the way it samples light and decides what to use is very different, its going to have different behaviour

Feeds both Direct and Indirect lighting (ReSTIR DI and GI)

ReGIR's big lever is the shading count. determines the quality of light sampling (more defined lights/shadows and highlights), and your FPS.

at low levels it turns into like an optimisation, less quality PT but very stable

highest levels ReGIR's better in all regards than pure screen space ReSTIR

to use it you'll need to wait for the next Alpha release (also the timer bug it has on github will need a fix)

[gentle haven]

oh, i downloaded it from your fork

Thanks for the detailed explanation by the way

uhm reinstalled it and suddenly the issue i had fixed

okay it looks perfect now

[hybrid violet]

When you use it, big thing

In the debug menu after loading you need to scroll and find ReGIR DI

The script that ticks that after load isn’t working atm

Big performance boost will occur and better direct lighting

[gentle haven]

oh okay thanks

[hybrid violet]

Will need to be done each save load until that’s fixed

[shadow heath]

Regir improves performance?

[gritty geode]

yes, some people seem to like running it at wrong settings like 40/80. who am I to judge their wrong decisions 😂

[gritty geode]

yes. maxnodes can actually slow down fps with PT on lower PCs. if I set it too high, frame time blows out. frametime should be capped by the max streaming time per frame, but I think a lot of their logic around the streamer is broken

Cyberpunk 2077 - Ultra Plus mod development

[gritty geode]

hey 😊 mostly it increases the sampling of path tracing. so on the fastest setting there are about double the samples of vanilla PT, and fixes some frame timing problems (how much time is spent on different tasks every frame)

everyone has a 4090 except meee 😭

[gritty geode]

that's for the new ReGIR mode that's much higher quality (much less noise) than vanilla PT

different people have different sensitivity to PT noise. the ones who are really sensitive to it currently run RT+PT

[gritty geode]

you maybe want to have a better look at the Ultra+ mod page, most of the best LOD mods are linked there, and there is a lot of information in the sticky post, and first YT video by KrushSG too. it's not the normal yada yada 😊

[gritty geode]

oh! I still need to fix this! I wish I could pin messages here. @minor smelt could you please pin this 🙏

I think we can add some insignificant movement to the camera each frame hopefully to bypass the game skipping temporal when it thinks the camera is still. it's pointless it doesn't improve fps

[real ravine]

create the issue on github 😳

[gritty geode]

so that just needs fixed? wait 0.6 seconds then enable ReGIRDI?

I'll take a look and merge

I have a migraine. need some low brain work rn 😂

[gritty geode]

if you want the best performance, use PT20 Fast/Performance or Medium/Balanced (what I use)... it's way faster than vanilla with very little downsides (and about to get faster)

keep in mind v4.0 alpha is a bit like trying to drive a car with engine bits everywhere at the moment. we've been testing things and about to bring it all back together 😊

[shadow heath]

Thank you for all the detailed replies and for the mod

I won't start playing the game proper any time soon so I will follow the development of the mod

[minor smelt]

Done 😁

[gritty geode]

thank you 🙏😊

[hybrid violet]

It’s more the fast timer is bugged. The exact same code was working on the current alpha

So the DoReGIRDI function isn’t called

Log is spamming an error

The way it’s setup, load with GI and DI but no separate denoising. Then once the game loads, turn off DI, wait 0.6 seconds then re-enable it, then enable separate denoising

All that, and you have fully working ReGIR

The detection is based on HaveWeDoneThat. That Boolean is reset to false on init, on tweak, and importantly on loading screens. When that happens we also turn off separate denoising so it can be re-enabled at the right time.

[gritty geode]

oh! okay 😊 will fix

okay easy, ty

I have to get some work done but will hopefully sort it out after work while I'm having insomnia 😂

[gritty geode]

oh no it's not rebased against alpha11 😭 lol

[hybrid violet]

It should be rebased on main

Tho from last night

[gritty geode]

🤔

idk ¯_(ツ)_/¯ .. all good, half way through 😊

i'm no git ninja, but i make it work 😂

[gritty geode]

i tried to integarte this but the linter didn't like it 🤔

small update (tidyups) pushed to https://github.com/sammilucia/cyberpunk-ultra-plus/tree/main/UltraPlus and version bumped to v4.0-alpha12

[gritty geode]

okay @hybrid violet i've just applied the speed hack for RT+PT and PT20 and bumped to alpha13 ... basically all this does is

• forces LocalLightImportanceSampling (via commonfixes) to force LL sampling to env map
• forces FallbackLight (commonfixes - required for above to work)
• sets SpatialNumSample to 0 for all RT+PT and PT20 quality levels
• increase NumEnvMapSamples to 32 for all of these (~0 fps hit after recompiling shader), several fps boost with no quality loss

i think this can be applied to PT21 as well, but i haven't done it because i can't test anything right now. perhaps you could have a try with ReGIR and PT21? ... in theory if locallights are sampled to the env map, spatialnumsamples serve no purpose at all

random thoughts: i wonder if this changes things for emissive triangle lights 🤔

i'm also going to suggest we rebrand ReGIRGI as "PT30" mode 😊

[gritty geode]

hmm, seems i've got it backwards! LLIS and fallbacklight both need to be disabled for PT20 to work!

[hybrid violet]

Fancy that

Fallback light I think shouldn’t be necessary surely

It’s rudimentary sampling as fallback, lots of bias if it’s on but theoretically less disocclusion

[hybrid violet]

PTNext

PTNext (ReGIR) featuring ReSTIR - beta

[gritty geode]

i'm just about to push a bunch of updates/fixes

[gritty geode]

yes it looks almost identical using the env map, just a lot faster!

[gritty geode]

nice 😊

[hybrid violet]

Hmmm to my understanding the env map is unused altogether

The environment map is emissive triangle lights, without that there’s nothing feeding it

Without it it’s just naive sampling from the BRDF and sent into ReSTIR via some custom method they added

Leaving the environment map blank

[gritty geode]

oh it's definitely used. if you disable fallback lights and have only 8 samples for the env map, it looks terrible

but there are flags that suggest it's "off"

it's working for PT21 too

[hybrid violet]

Hmmmmm? Curious, need to test that in pre denoised mode

If you can send me the settings ur using for it

There’s so many pathways they’ve made because my guess is they were early adopters

Tech has evolved as they built it

Even Nvidia is still catching up to their own research papers

5000 series will see conditional ReSTIR PT with mutations + NRC allowing extremely high quality realtime PT

Maybe even + PT volumetrics

[gritty geode]

yep, i've just updated the git

• biggest problem is regir activation isn't working reliably, there's a better way to do it (not fixed, see below)
• i think the config.* variables need to be moved to variables.lua var.config because they're now shared across ui.lua and init.lua at least
• fixed LoadSettings() not being called
• disabled LocalLightImportanceSampling and EnableFallbackLight which allowed SpatialNumSamples to be set to 0 for PT20, PT21, RT+PT, which is much faster. i haven't tested with ReGIR yet
• adjusted DownScaleFactor so they're all uniform (again, didn't touch ReGIR just get
• fixed 90% font scaling not working
• adjusted window size

[hybrid violet]

ReGIR is a bit of an odd case, indirect quality isn’t really boosted by raising indirect variables

It’s raised by boosting primary lighting which needs usually a lot of shading count to restore the lost highlights/shadow clarity

So it’s best to conserve performance elsewhere and just throw it all into ShadingCount

When that’s high, the image is really really clean and quality

Time spent trying to get another bounce in SHARC could boost the base light sampling used for it to even pick up there’s a light there

Light slots can’t be lowered as many scenes approach 300-500 lights in the deep city and it doesn’t touch perf much

If you have any other suggestions on squeezing performance elsewhere we can use that to further raise Shading Counts

I haven’t managed to get beyond 20 reliably on a 4090 on Balanced, namely when you hit the deep city and are sampling up to 500 lights you start to bleed frames down to 30fps base on Insane

[gritty geode]

in that case i'd be very curious to see whta happens if we e.g. set DownScaleFactor = 6, and try and get SpatialNumSamples = 0 working

for regir

[hybrid violet]

My conclusion from repetitive testing was, I don’t think Rays or Spatial Samples are doing anything for ReGIR

Perf was not changing as you expect

But I need more reload restart game tests to be sure

Downscale factor above 5 wasn’t reliably boosting perf either so I was hesitant to change it

[gritty geode]

right. i'm going to create a branch to test it without spatialnumsamples

[gritty geode]

it does quite noticably on my pc. but 7 doesn't

[hybrid violet]

24 shading count on ReGIR insane would be super high quality I almost contemplated reworking the quality levels. Maybe removing Vanilla and just adding an Extreme before Insane

Extreme being playable and Insane being try your luck

30 is the dream

All ReSTIR micro detail basically restored, high quality sampling and way more light samples than screen space, holds up entirely in motion, holds up sharp shadows at most angles

[gritty geode]

okay i've made a branch regir-performance-improvements 😄

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hybrid violet]

20 does all the leg work, it’s like imperceptible for most but higher quality base, just a little bit of micro detail sacrificed in bright spots and a lil difficulty in heavy motion keep coherent light but better overall definitively than (pure) ReSTIR for clarity and overall resolve

And consistently ReGIR holds up better in stability and noise

[gritty geode]

mm, i can even run it, which is pretty crazy

[hybrid violet]

It’s got this weirdly persistent base cost to it

Nothing I did changes the performance characteristics of Shading Count

[gritty geode]

huh

how's this?

[hybrid violet]

Is ReGIR DI enabled?

Without the auto fix working atm

[gritty geode]

that's on a 3070 Ti in a laptop, 1440p quality

yup

[hybrid violet]

Massively boosts perf when the two are used together

Without DI I wouldn’t ever bother with GI it’s just too expensive for minute indirect benefits

Nice

[gritty geode]

so i think insane can go to 20 no problem

[hybrid violet]

Try hop on a bike and drive deep into the city

[gritty geode]

mind you i'm in a fairly low cost thing

[hybrid violet]

That’s where I see perf really take a hit

[gritty geode]

hehehe

oay

okay

[hybrid violet]

Maybe I’ve overcooked with my mods

And I’m just limited elsewhere

Also 4K?

And what DLSS level?

[gritty geode]

do i actually want RTXDI gradients enabled?

[hybrid violet]

I found it boosts perf

Consistently

[gritty geode]

it's possible.... screen overlays and 4k texture mods can cause seerious problems with this streamer bug

okay!

[hybrid violet]

I’ve gone ham

But only on graphics no content

Do you have the environment LOD mod

Or just better distance

[gritty geode]

daaamnnn

[hybrid violet]

Also maybe astonishing density is doing it lol

[gritty geode]

that will hurt

[hybrid violet]

ReGIR performs crazy good in like the exterior

Desert regions, top notch perf

How much FPS with High?

[hybrid violet]

Did you load it with DI btw or cycled it back on after

[gritty geode]

cycled back on

can you please tell me the exact sequence we need?

• disable ReGIR
• disable ReGIRDI
• disable RTXDI separate denoiser
• enable ReGIR
• enable ReGIRDI
• enable RTXDI separate denoiser
  ?

we can adjust the skin quite a lot with these, but they don't hot load

[Editor/Characters/Skin]
AllowSkinAmbientMix = false                        ; (true)
SkinAmbientMix_Factor = 1.0                        ; (1.0)
SubsurfaceSpecularTintWeight = 0.5                ; (0.3)
SkinAmbientIntensity_Factor = 0.3                ; (0.4)
SubsurfaceSpecularTint_R = 0.26                    ; (0.21)
SubsurfaceSpecularTint_G = 0.17                    ; (0.21)
SubsurfaceSpecularTint_B = 0.19                    ; (0.29)

[hybrid violet]

So, loading the game
SeparateDenoising disabled (key!)
ReGIR enabled both GI and DI

After game load
Disable specifically only ReGIR DI
Enable ReGIR DI
Enable Separate Denoising

This has to happen every load, init and save loads

I’ve set up an observer that will handle save loads

And confirmed reliably it works

ReGIR GI (or more so the enable flag for ReGIR) should never be disabled at any point when using ReGIR

Just the UseForDI flag after load then re-enabled

During load it should be enabled

My code for it was working reliably before I merged not sure what broke tho. Namely the fast timer is spamming the log now

Code is the same too

[hybrid violet]

This as well was copied directly from the recommended method by CET

[gritty geode]

okay

there's also an interesting effect

• disabling separate denoiser
• disable ReGIR (but leave ReGIRDI enabled)
• disable ReGIRDI and re-enable it
• enable ReGIR
• enable separate

(without loading a save)

[gritty geode]

i wasn't trying to load a save, i was trying to do it live in game

[hybrid violet]

I noticed loading with ReGiR and triggering it after didn’t look the same

Also perf difference by memory though so many tests my memory’s a blur

But to me loading with ReGIR had a big difference . Though cycling DI with ReGIR base off won’t do anything

Cause without the Enable flag it’s just disabling ReSTIR RIS direct lighting for a moment, you’ll loose all direct light but ReGiRs grid isn’t loaded

Basically the key sequence is separate off during load, but ReGIR fully on, then cycle DI for the screen space ReSTIR elements and allowing separate denoising

Also, not doing that has a big difference in look. It’s an option

[gritty geode]

okay here's my crazy changes so far https://github.com/sammilucia/cyberpunk-ultra-plus/tree/regir-performance-improvements 😂

[hybrid violet]

Hmmm do note in say Jackie’s bar scene there was > 512 lights. The engine didn’t allow me to go beyond 512, but slots being below lights in the scene causes flickering between sources in the grid

At 32 for example you’ll see dancing lights

Being slightly over doesn’t cause much flickering (have to focus on it and in specific spots)

Shame cause with 2048 or 4096 we could do emissive triangle lights plus ReGIR for ultimate quality

Also AllowRTXDIRejitter must be disabled for ReGIR

Breaks npcs unless we fix that issue

BiasCorrectionMode needs testing cause I found 3 consistently gained me FPS

But not sure if that’s for everyone

[hybrid violet]

Home soon and can test 🙂

[gritty geode]

roger that. I added some notes in the branches init.

[gritty geode]

as long as that's not disabling it 😂

I lowered commonfixes lights to 448 but just raise it back up again.
also I'm getting disocclusion noise on doors, we might need to increase disocclusionboost

[hybrid violet]

Yeah maybe also need to keep the fallback light for ReGIR

And fallback sampling

Both

ReGIR truly solves a lot of its disocclusion with more ShadingCount

But I agree moar samples

[gritty geode]

ya know we could probably force a quick save then quick load 🤔

[gritty geode]

I'm really just trying to avoid enabling SpatialNumSamples because they're expensive and not great

[hybrid violet]

Sadly I think it’s necessary for just this reason, the algo doesn’t have a way otherwise to handle movement

Though their own docs said 1 sample should be fine

And 2 is golden

If no spatial gains perf for ReGIR we can try raising shade count

But it may not beat the results

Also try a small radius

Big radius big cost

[gritty geode]

yes that's all I'm thinking

[hybrid violet]

20 radius is used for one of the two lighting types in the portal bridge thing

Remix

[gritty geode]

a lot of the time I use frametime saved to increase quality elsewhere. at least for Medium > Insane

I also had the don't unstream thing and it seemed to behave itself

[hybrid violet]

Which one?

[gritty geode]

which radius?

[hybrid violet]

Spatial radius

[gritty geode]

the one you said should probably only be set for 16GB+ cards 😂

[hybrid violet]

If that’s 64 each sample will be more costly

[hybrid violet]

Ah good. Well no more pop in

Or more so

Pop out and in and out and in

[gritty geode]

hopefully. yes. it badly needs a denounce

[hybrid violet]

We should denounce this streamer yes

Idk how they thought it acceptable

[gritty geode]

**debounce 😂

it's so fixable though!

like seriously give me 30 minutes with the source code

even just compare the streamer code to 1.63 which worked fine

I wonder what this does inkInitEngineState

the ideal answer for ReGIR is

• do the things
• hot reload engine (without loading a saved)
• do the other things

oh! RedHotTools has a hot reload function! https://wiki.redmodding.org/cyberpunk-2077-modding/for-mod-creators/modding-tools/redhottools

[hybrid violet]

oh nice

well

local timer = activeTimers[i]

figured it out

declaring timer locally there which wasnt done prior

which removes the global timer from the function

so the fast vars dont exist

local is the new part

or sorry is the old part

wait what

current

prior

trying now to see if that cleans this all up

prob should be this right

semi works

this is turning itself on too early

way too early

but the RTXDI thing applies at the right time now

[gritty geode]

I think there's also the problem that config = {} is defined in ui.lua and init.lua... it should probably be moved to variables (as var.config = {} ?) so it's common to everything

[gritty geode]

I added another line to DoReGIR() that was me, I broke it

I can't understand nativeDB at all

[hybrid violet]

oh this is pre-that

I think
if Detector.isGameActive and isLoaded then
this is needed too

isLoaded

only do Updates after Load

nope something else doing it

Cyberpunk?

oh I just hadnt applied it on my local copy

it works

[gritty geode]

I've done.thay so many times 😂

[hybrid violet]

should contain the 3 fixes

tho its a bit out of date lemme merge in

some aggressive culling happening here

raising the offset fixes it but lemme test whats needed

[gritty geode]

reading psiberx's code 🤯

[hybrid violet]

yeah 200/2000 fixes it

100 breaks it

or does it

10 is too low

[gritty geode]

how do you get such low fps at balanced 😂

[hybrid violet]

100/2000 works

idk honestly

4k DLSS Balanced

[gritty geode]

have you run the AMD auto-detect tool lately?

yes ik. balanced is 58% I think?

[hybrid violet]

?

[gritty geode]

you have an AMD CPU?

[hybrid violet]

i9 13900k

[gritty geode]

ah, nevermind

hey, what about toggling RR, instead of loading a save (to force a re-init)

psi says the engine can't directly be re-initialised, but try toggling some other settings that causes a re-init (instead of loading a game)

[hybrid violet]

makes sense

I found a good spot for tuning ReLAX and notably reduced some smearing

basically tuning some stuff towards CDPR defaults, restoring a lower history set and relaxing PhiLuminance a bit

[gritty geode]

yep, I agree

CDPRs defaults were okay for relax (mostly), it's mostly fixing RTXDI bias and envmap that helped it a lot

relax isn't used at all for ReSTIR/ReGIR

[hybrid violet]

ReLAX is def used to denoise ReSTIR/ReGIR, without it you'd have pure noise

left would be no ReLAX

[hybrid violet]

ohh the Luma weight I kinda get it now

[gritty geode]

wdym?

I've added some issues to git re what we've been discussing

I'd better get some sleep 😊😊 nn

just thinking.. are you running ReGIR at half res diffuse? (does it even matter?)

[hybrid violet]

been doing so but I dont think they work in PT

made some discoveries on how to tune the denoiser towards pure disocclusion focus

so fast shouldnt drop below 4, cause history frames absolutely shouldnt drop below 3

cooks things if it does

spatial variance threshold at 0, helps reduce smearing a solid amount by always doing spatial variance

[gritty geode]

okay. excited to try!

I'll hopefully have some time on the weekend too 😊

[real ravine]

@hybrid violet if you can, can you please test if these changes work as intended? https://github.com/sammilucia/cyberpunk-ultra-plus/pull/7

[hybrid violet]

should have the time tomorrow, almost out of time tonight

some ReLAX observations

• Anti Firefly, little brutal but reduces smearing
• Prepass Blur, probabilistic should use a decent amount of it in specular
• Lobe Angle Fraction decently high to avoid smearing
• Low as possible depth threshold within their values, same for disocclusion
• keep HistoryFix to 3, anything else is broke
• Same thing keep fast at 3-4, 4 honestly, no diff below 4 just a quality loss
• Phi Luminance being as low as CDPR had it makes no sense
• VirtualHistoryClamping is a must, specular is where alot of smearing can occur
• Nothing will truly improve the image outside base image, the source of actual smearing beyond what the denoiser does is PT
• AtrousIterationNum costs FPS but is good for IQ

can prob keep Atrous at 6 for Insane, 8 is likely overkill

going to try again raising Ray count to 3/4

with Probabilistic the impact is not high at all on FPS but good IQ gains

[hybrid violet]

hmmm suddenly getting some large stutters into bike rides

checking its not the BLAS/autorotation settings

[hybrid violet]

okay got it, cant drop spatial variance below 2

[hybrid violet]

https://github.com/sammilucia/cyberpunk-ultra-plus/pull/8 all done

[gentle haven]

excited to find out what is changed now

[hybrid violet]

It’s fully functioning outside ini detection

Once that’s fixed it also just needs to update the sample count it’s detecting for Insane

[hybrid violet]

Should be even less smearing now, a little higher PT quality than the last pull request and of course working automatic ReGIR DI fix/enable

[gentle haven]

That sounds great

[hybrid violet]

I’d say it’s ready for alpha testing, just needs working ini detection and more tuning as we go and get more data and settings

I also need to figure out how I’ve CPU limited myself and solve that

So I can check true 4090 performance

[gentle haven]

alright

[gritty geode]

do we need inis at all?

[gritty geode]

does ReGIRDI still require loading a save?

[gentle haven]

hiya me again

it seems ray reconstruction is not getting re-enabled properly (sometimes)

it does looks even more perfect now

[minor smelt]

Are you Dutch?

(Sorry for asking so directly haha)

[gentle haven]

yes

why?

[minor smelt]

Nice, "for the rest" is something that doesn't tranlate literally to English that way haha. But is typically Dutch to say haha. You're actually saying now "voor de rust" 😛

Just found it funny and immediately recognized it haha

[gentle haven]

oh

and i always thought i was good at speaking english

[minor smelt]

Don't worry, you are, everyone can make tiny little mistakes haha. I do it ever so often.

[gentle haven]

ah okay. So i assume you are also dutch?

[minor smelt]

Nee, hoe kom je daar in hemelsnaam bij? Zie ik dan eruit alsof ik een kaaskop ben? Huh! Huh?!

Dit topic is in essentie ook compleet off-topic, dus maakt niet uit als we effe intermezzo doen haha

[minor smelt]

Btw, just look at my username longer than a second and it should be obvious 😛

Ok, perhaps it could also be seen as German. But I don't steal bicycles, so....

My bicycles only get stolen by others 😭 😭 😭

[gentle haven]

Sad moment

[gentle haven]

Ah i see

Okay, funny that you immediately recognized that

[minor smelt]

Twee keer, ene keer deed ik niet op slot toen ik naar de McDonalds ging en de andere keer toen ik naar de appie ging haha

Dus wel beetje mijn fout, maar alsnog 😭

[minor smelt]

My brain was like "Oh god, that is wrong, but why does it sound so familiar though...." 😛

[gentle haven]

Ha

[gentle haven]

Het is alsnog vervelend, maakt dan niet uit waarom het gebeurt

[minor smelt]

Of moet ik typisch Nederlands gaan doen en gewoon weer de fiets van iemand anders gaan jatten haha

[gentle haven]

Das dan ook weer niet aardig

[minor smelt]

Huisgenoot van me heeft dat ooit gedaan 😂 Zou het zelf serieus nooit doen, want is natuurlijk hufterig

[gentle haven]

Das inderdaad hufterig, maar ja zo is dan ook weer een behoorlijk deel van Nederland

(als ik hiermee over een of andere lijn ging moet je het laten weten)

[minor smelt]

Jup, wel mee eens, maar is gewoon onze mening natuurlijk. Maar geloof wel dat iedereen van nature goed is, maar sommigen laten zich verleiden om slecht te doen uit gemak/luiheid/eigen ellende.

[gentle haven]

Ja, ik wil dat ook graag geloven

[minor smelt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I139xFbNww Ik geloof haha

[gentle haven]

🤣

[hybrid violet]

Question is can we guarantee all ini lines apply at runtime

[hybrid violet]

ReGIR baseline should be loaded during load, it’s a world space grid that needs constructing and light should them be sampled from it, for shader reasons too I think such a drastic change should apply during load. But also loading without DI looked different than cycling it after load

Weird shit

[gentle haven]

In have also seen this. (that it looks different)

[gritty geode]

you are. I'm Australian and nobody can understand me

[gritty geode]

I hear you have great bread too

oke, Engels alsjeblieft domme lol

[minor smelt]

Nice try

Haha

[minor smelt]

Yes, my baguette is huge

[gritty geode]

geen idee waar je het over hebt 😜

[minor smelt]

That's actually very good

[gritty geode]

bedankt schat ❤️

[gritty geode]

yep! they do. they're pulled in from commonfixes by onTweak

[minor smelt]

😘

[gritty geode]

what!? lmao

scared of women 😂

[gentle haven]

Wait what, you know dutch?

[gritty geode]

nee waarom?

[gentle haven]

Omdat je nederlands praat🤣

[gritty geode]

oh! Is dat zo? 🤔

oh ja dat doe ik! wacht even

okay that's better

[hybrid violet]

Ay nice mate

[gritty geode]

sorry

[gritty geode]

noice you too? 😂

[gentle haven]

Nice

[hybrid violet]

Yeah born and raised

[gritty geode]

nice. I'm Aussie imported by a US Marine

I can't understand what anybody says here

[hybrid violet]

lol that’s fair people don’t make it easy

Then again I think I also speak too fast at times combined with Aussie dropping syllables everywhere

Was funny when I visited the Netherlands had to slow myself down

[gritty geode]

yeah and everyone calls me Sam, I HATE being called Sam lol

that's what my dad called me when I really fucked up 😂

[hybrid violet]

lol yeah if you have a proper first name you kinda give that up living here

Whatever gets the sentence said faster can be dropped

[gritty geode]

yep. 🙄

[hybrid violet]

In this case I think you should change how saving and loading works

Maybe remove all the detection on specific lines

Save like each category as an int

Mode =5, quality = 3

Into an ini file

Then just load from that ini

Easy enough

(in theory)

[gritty geode]

okay, or we just do

[ReGIR]
Editor/ReGIR/Enable = true
Editor/ReGIR/EnableForDI = true
RayTracing/Reference/BounceNumber = 2

etc. etc

or could do

[Mode/ReGIR/High]
Editor/ReGIR/Enable = true
Editor/ReGIR/EnableForDI = true
RayTracing/Reference/BounceNumber = 2

[Samples/ReGIR/Medium]
Editor/RTXDI/NumInitialSamples = 16
...

would be very easy to partse

easy to partse! not so easy to tyep though!

i actually quite like this. @real ravine wdyt?

[hybrid violet]

An I mean more like not the ini common fixed

But more like how we load what mode the user selected

Make a little custom ini with
Mode = 3

[gritty geode]

yes that's what i'm talking about

there's no advantage to doing mode = 3 vs mode = "PTNext" etc. though

because in lua comparing any variable to something is slow

so

if mode = 3 then
  -- do something
end

-- is much slower than
local PT21 = 3
if mode = PT21 then
  -- do something
end

this is why the mode / quality / etc. checking is always done by comparing variables. in the first example lua creates a variable, does the comparison... in the second example all the vars already exist

[hybrid violet]

Ah right sorry the structure I’m thinking is basically first replace all the guess samples functions with if mode 3 set our own internal var for mode 3 to whatever mode 3 is. We can store it as string as well either way.
Then the rest of the code is the same

Once we know what mode should be loaded in and set it to that (ReGIR) all our existing code for setting vars based on mode can than apply

[gritty geode]

yes. i'm just planning on removing all the guess things

[hybrid violet]

ATM though we aren’t saving and loading selections players pick

Like if you pick ReGIR we don’t save that mode should === ReGIR

Which is all we really need to save

[gritty geode]

oh i was in my latest commit?

yep

[hybrid violet]

Ah like after my pull request?

[hybrid violet]

This one

ReLAX changes there are basically, prioritise spatial detection over a perfect stable resolve on stills. Detect down to the deepest level, trigger spatial variance sooner, count anything as disocclusion, changed the accumulated frames to what their auto detection would do at 30fps (to cover all scenarios), adjusted the roughness stopping to what I saw

All settings tested live in motion on the NRD sample

[gritty geode]

idk, just merging now

i guess my remaining question would be, does relax with naive need different settings from relax with ReGIR and/or ReSTIR

merged

I've also added a proposed configs.ini

actually we probably need a

[Mode/Common/Low]
...

maybe. or they might just make things confusing

[hybrid violet]

There’s this

[gritty geode]

yes i know, which is amazing, but i just deleted guessing 🤔

okay, now i've actually checked in my config.ini proposal 😜

[hybrid violet]

Hopefully not, but ReLAX is designed for ReSTIR (and by extension ReGIR). It’s tuned for the sort of signals it provides

I genuinely think we should try and move in a direction of ReSTIR for both GI and DI

Aka move away from PT 2.0

If you look at the predenoised image it’s a massive improvement enabling ReSTIR GI

If anything the Low quality modes can disable GI

[gritty geode]

i just don't think it's going to be fast enough. i can play at 40-45 fps with extremely noisy ReGIR or ReSTIR on my PC, or 50-60 fps with PT20 and no noise

if we can deal with the noise of low quality GI, then yes

[hybrid violet]

I don’t get though how PT20 would have less noise, the predenoised image without GI has more noise

And weaker signals

[gritty geode]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

idk, but playing on Low samples Medium quality PT20 looks great

also keep in mind that at 1440p, DLSS balanced looks awful compared to quality

there isn't enough information at 835p primary resolution to really upscale properly

[hybrid violet]

That’s quite fair

Balanced at 4K is like 1200p or something

1252p

Ideally I could get Quality 4K ReGIR

The dream

Yeah sacrificing GI for higher FPS and more resolution is a worthy trade off

Up to a point tho imo

Once your at 1080p I wouldn’t give it up to reach say 1200p

[gritty geode]

mm, the difference is more than it sounds because when FSR3 fps dips, it dips hard, it's nowhere near as stable as DLSS

[gritty geode]

yep 😭

one day i'll get a real PC 😂

[gritty geode]

i'm super curious to know what happens if you run it without texture/lod* mods

i mean if i can get ReGIR working really nicely on my PC, absolutely i'll use it. it looks amazing

i also haven't tried it on balanced and it already looks a lot sharper. balanced may be possible. or maybe @ 0.62 or something res

lmao reading others mods

    local f = Helpers.GetFOV()
    -- TODO: fuck you
    local poopshit = (68 / f- 1) * 0.22

[gritty geode]

@hybrid violet this is my poem on preventing skipped temporal reprojection when camera isn't moving

registerForEvent('onUpdate', function(delta)
    JitterCamera()
end)

function JitterCamera()
    -- imperceptibly jitter camera to always force temporal reprojection
    -- pseudocode follows

    -- does just doing this work?
    if isLoaded then
        Game.GetPlayer()
    return
    end
    
    -- or maybe this?
    if isLoaded then
        jitter = timer.fast * 0.0000000001
        Game.GetPlayer():GetFPPCameraComponent():SetFOV(defaultFOV + jitter)
        return
    end

    --[[
    -- from ImmersiveFirstPerson\Modules\Helpers.lua
    local player = Game.GetPlayer()
    Game.GetPlayer():GetFPPCameraComponent():SetFOV(defaultFOV)
    Game.GetPlayer():SetLocalPosition(Vector4.new(x, y, z, 1.0))            -- e.g. 0.0, 0.0, 0, 1.0 or 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0
    Game.GetPlayer():SetLocalOrientation(Quaternion.new(x, y, z, 1.0))
        if roll ~= nil or pitch ~= nil or yaw ~= nil then
        if roll == nil then roll = 0 end
        if pitch == nil then pitch = 0 end
        if yaw == nil then yaw = 0 end
        Game.GetPlayer():GetFPPCameraComponent():SetLocalOrientation(GetSingleton('EulerAngles'):ToQuat(EulerAngles.new(roll, pitch, yaw)))
    ]]
end

[hybrid violet]

This looks incredibly interesting. I’m down for trying it out to see if it solves the static smear

[gritty geode]

I'm really really hoping we can just refresh the camera rather than jittering it

[minor smelt]

Are you using Google translate? haha

[minor smelt]

Not scared of them, just not my cup of tea 😋

[gritty geode]

no? 😂

[gritty geode]

FINE

😤

😂

[minor smelt]

Je was toch Australisch zei je?

[minor smelt]

Yeah, sorry, born that way haha

[gritty geode]

yes lol

[gritty geode]

we can still be friends 😊

but i'm a hugger

and nothing to apologise for

[minor smelt]

I get the feeling you don't get what I was trying to actually say hahahaha

[minor smelt]

Ah, a friend of mine from Moldova is a hugger too. Since then I became more of a fan of that too 😋

[gritty geode]

mayyyybeeee not? ... 😂

i'm pretty autistic 😂

[minor smelt]

Tsssssss, who isn't? 🤪

[minor smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-who-doctor-who-60th-anniversary-doctor-who-the-giggle-bi-generation-14th-doctor-gif-6521573281649239787

[gritty geode]

O M G, you always tilt clockwise??!

lekker zeg

[minor smelt]

Yeah, really annoying, now standing on my head actually

[minor smelt]

Dit frustreert mij haha, weet nu niet of je wel of niet Nederlands bent

Kan dreigen je eruit te kieperen als je niet de waarheid verteld? mwuhahahahaha

[gritty geode]

you'd fit in fine in australia

haha

doe eens normaal 🙄

no i'm Australian

[minor smelt]

So, how do you talk Dutch?

[gritty geode]

lmao

i am the internet

[minor smelt]

I'm sending you a DM

[gritty geode]

okay haha

idk, i've been online 30 years... the internet today is just forks of yesterday

[real ravine]

cpus today are too fast for this to be an issue, dont bother xd

[gritty geode]

@hybrid violet i've tweaked PTNext low/med/high/insane a bit ... i can't see any difference between 2 and 4 sharc bounces, can you? it just adds performance cost
https://github.com/sammilucia/cyberpunk-ultra-plus

i tried those commands to refresh the camera, they didn't seem to make any difference, but i'm not sure the problem actually exists in regir anyway

[minor smelt]

To my knowledge not really. Scripting languages like these can still cause slowdown in modern games. Alan Wake 2 devs switch to Lua for example for their scripting from now on on Northlight, but they admitted that it was extremely single-threaded and leaves room for optimization in the future.

They even had to work around issues apparently in cases where scripting was too slow to keep up.

[gritty geode]

well, it's done now ... i would prefer to program efficiently where possible

😊

also, PTNext actually looks great for me on DLSS Balanced

not as great as quality of course, but far far better than any of the other modes. i can run High on Balanced

and i couldn't find a way to activate it without loading a save

[hybrid violet]

It’s honestly interesting how it just kinda seems better. To me it’s consistency

It kinda just works across more scenes

Holds up well, doesn’t boil much, doesn’t suddenly dissolve as much

And resolves some detail where you notice it more even if it does some spots you otherwise wouldn’t slightly less

It’s like sacrificing 5% peak for 33% base

[gritty geode]

it's soooo nice

i disabled SpatialNumSamples but it doesn't really matter, it's not using them at all

yes, and someone in the Digital Dreams discord was saying they hate how shadows don't resolve well at a distance (ReSTIR/naive/RTXDI) ... and it's like... well, they're screenspace... they never will

i've asked psi if there's some other way to script maybe a quicksave/quickload sequence ... or inject RedHotTools to do more or something

because the other trouble is, ,if you change any of the graphics settings, the regir grid gets trashed, and you have to reload

[hybrid violet]

Yeah there’s a limit to which settings you can change, and you can’t reinit

[gritty geode]

mm 🤔

[real ravine]

i was gonna argue but i wont bother. idk, trust the corporation if that's what you want xd

javascript is single threaded and it's not* slow

php is single threaded and it's not slow

python is not slow either

lua is not slow

[minor smelt]

I have no reason to doubt it honestly. Worked also as a tester for CorsixTH-project, where they also said Lua was very slow

@real ravine I'm confused, you are now argueing it anyways while saying you wouldn't argue it. I feel confused and betrayed now 😛

[gritty geode]

we have a full multithreaded JS engine we'll open source

[real ravine]

i'd say more if i'd argue

[minor smelt]

uhuh 😛

[gritty geode]

https://tenor.com/SwZ1.gif

[minor smelt]

If I can't win, I'll just ban his ass, mwuhahahaha

[gritty geode]

@hybrid violet is there a reason you stopped it loading settings on startup?

[minor smelt]

Btw, don't know the exact timestamp and at work, so can't listen to it now to be sure, but in this video they talked about the lua scripting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTW7bDdHC6g

[minor smelt]

Why no @gritty geode ? 🥺 Why are you restricting me so much in my life. I feel like this isn't working out. I'll just ban you instead.

[gritty geode]

oh it says "no, u!" 😂

you can't ban me i'm playing CP 😄

[minor smelt]

Reality begs to differ

[minor smelt]

Youuuuu... little.... 😛

[gritty geode]

oh no, it's just not working reliably. i'll sort it

mooohahahah

[real ravine]

what is lil bro yapping? he's not saying anything xd. even if the scripts they were running were slow, why would they run one at a time in a single threaded manner? bad code is bad code, no matter what language you'd be using you can still make mistakes that could cost you performance, time, braincells. the language aint saving you from bad decisions

[gritty geode]

44 fps in the afterlife at insane quality ... on a laptop 😂 1440p balanced FG

[hybrid violet]

I did?

[real ravine]

noticed a lot of weird behaviors on my end with cp's vanilla raytracing/pathtracing implementation, im pretty sure they've been paid by nvidia to make things run like ass overall so their gpus would come on top. not the first time either. they've done this in the past with excessive tessellation since they were faster at it than amd xdd

tested the last version of ultraplus and it looks and runs better - for the first time

no more weird shimmering, weird artifacts and whatever the game would cook up when i'd turn on raytraced reflections or path tracing

[hybrid violet]

With ReGIR ? Or just like alpha 8 atm?

[real ravine]

the latest version before your changes got merged

have no clue what got changed bcuz i didnt care since rt/pt looked like ass for me and i just didnt bother

but something got changed and it looks and performs better on an amd gpu

i'd be seeing fucking glitched squares when moving the camera on anything with a reflection on it

[shadow heath]

Always with the Nvidia conspiracy theories

[gritty geode]

NRD looks kind of incredible like this

[real ravine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYL07c74Jr4

[shadow heath]

If you want to talk about a GPU vendor paying developers to make games run/look worse then you have to talk about AMD, most of their sponsored games don't add DLSS or XeSS, and have gimped RT implementations

[real ravine]

🤣

[shadow heath]

Versus your conspiracy nonsense about CDPR making PT run worse for what exactly?

Literal baseless accusation that is uncalled for, it's a new technology and CP was the first full game to get a PT makeover

[real ravine]

cool story

[shadow heath]

No need to behave like a child

[real ravine]

u understand that u just came out of fucking nowhere to just argue and defend whatever u're defending? even if u were right, why'd you downplay the fact that im saying "good job guys for making a better job than cp devs and nvidia with 0 fucking resources"

i mean whatever u're saying big guy

[gritty geode]

@hybrid violet jittering the FOV is working 😂

[shadow heath]

I responded to your conspiracy nonsense about developers being paid by Nvidia to make their games run worse, I said nothing more

Also random people and hobbyists fixing up/optimizing games is like half of modding. People with passion or an interest make up for resources and money that a company may have

Like some random guy who fixed GTA V's online loading times from minutes down to seconds by optimizing some code. One guy vs multi-billion dollar developer. Maybe Rockstar was paid off by SSD companies to make load times slower

[gritty geode]

be respectful please

[hybrid violet]

oh sweet thats good, one major source of smearing gone

also, removing all my mods and my misc tweaks ini file thing that I had that let me use Astonishing, 30fps

on Quality

ReGIR Insane

it was all the Ultra options it added I think

cooked the graphics for no gain

[gritty geode]

well ... it's not happening quickly 🤔

[hybrid violet]

hmm?

adding back in LOD first cause thats what I care most for

[gritty geode]

okay, it's all updated. i called it beta01

[gentle haven]

is it on beta already?

[gritty geode]

oh you gained 30 fps?

[gritty geode]

yes it's seeming pretty reliable

still needs a lot of testing, but it's going well i think

[hybrid violet]

nah went from 25 fps sitting still to 30-32 fps

[gentle haven]

y'all are quick

[hybrid violet]

big diff though FG wise and smoothness wise

also nice, beta

[gritty geode]

i just did

• rebalanced ReGIR quality a bit more
• set RTXDI disocclusion, envmap, spatialnumsamples all to 0 - they're not used and trying to save memory
• reduced ReGIR Low and Medium lights count to try and save memory ... i wonder if we can programatically reduce LOD distance to reduce lights?

(because on 8GB, my PC is fine, but slows down with the vram bug)

• added jittering the frame by an imperceptible amount to prevent temporal from pausing

[gritty geode]

yes i bet. but that's 4k right?

it still seems low

try the new beta?

[hybrid violet]

4k Quality, which is 1440p

also thats pre FG

[hybrid violet]

trying it now

[hybrid violet]

I would def just not go below 256 as a minimum

it will flicker badly when you least expect it

[hybrid violet]

hmmm you sure on disocclusion?

thats the only one I'm super cautious about but, gotta test

lemme dl it

[gritty geode]

pretty sure... lmk what you think

i left it turned on for restirgi but i could be wrong, i'm pretty tired 😊

also i'm getting 22 real FPS at ReGIR High DLSS quality 1440p

[minor smelt]

After Valerii, I'm a bit more cautious, so sadly have to ask: these statements of yours are based on what experience? Not saying I don't believe you, just want to check 🙂

[gritty geode]

oops i accidentally removed ReSTIR spatial samples ... re-added

[minor smelt]

I want to emphasize that these are just your theories/opinions then of course.

[minor smelt]

AMD always stated developers were free to add other upscalers, so nobody is actually really certain about that too

[minor smelt]

Agree, counts for both @shadow heath and @real ravine Respect each other's opinions and views and present them as such

[shadow heath]

AMD actually never gave a clear answer denying that they discourage competitor tech to be implemented in their sponsored titles. But this seems to depend on the level of AMD's involvement/sponsoring of the game, since that can differ, nearly all their sponsored games either never got other upscalers added, or they were added at much later dates (which started happening after the public backlash compounded). You can read about the whole thing here: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-df-weekly-does-the-amd-starfield-deal-block-the-inclusion-of-dlss-and-xess-upscaling

[gritty geode]

@hybrid violet i just pushed another few (minor fixes) and added you as a mod author

@real ravine do you have a nexus account?

[gritty geode]

ew blobby

[real ravine]

those weeds became grey in any PT mode

[real ravine]

yeah, why

[gritty geode]

yeah it looks like a whole layer of lighting isn't working

i don't know that's very weird

screen is too wide error 😂

[gritty geode]

dammit that's a local light sampling bug

or fallback light

😭

that's in all modes?

do you know why this tooltip isn't working?

if ImGui.RadioButton("RT Only", var.settings.mode == var.mode.RT_ONLY) then
    ui.tooltip("Regular ray tracing, with optimisations and fixes.")
    var.settings.mode = var.mode.RT_ONLY
    config.SetMode(var.settings.mode)
    config.SetQuality(var.settings.quality)
    config.SetSamples(var.settings.samples)
    SaveSettings()
end

nvmind i fixed it 😜

[gritty geode]

try enabling enable fallback lighting and / or enable local light importance sampling in debug

i hope it's not that

[real ravine]

not that

[real ravine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0L3OTZ13Os theories, yeah

[real ravine]

i've played around with all the debug settings, didn't find what was the cause of it

[shadow heath]

This is a controversial openly AMD-fanboy rumourmill channel who makes wrong claims all the time 🤣 he's a meme in the tech community

[shadow heath]

Are the testing versions on github or nexus?

[gritty geode]

just GitHub for now 😊

only because WoaD just found a bug. I was about to upload 😭

[shadow heath]

Alright I am open to helping test stuff later after I set the game and mods up

[gentle haven]

hiya, are ini's no longer needed? (i still have the one from firekahuna)

[gritty geode]

oh!! that's separate DI denoising

on the front panel, enable that

I think. I have to get to sleep, night everyone 😊 x

[shadow heath]

right you're in australia

[gritty geode]

they shouldn't be for beta02 I just pushed to GitHub 😊

[shadow heath]

it's 12:00 here

[gentle haven]

ah okay, thanks

[gritty geode]

mm, 5am here 😂

[gritty geode]

ty!

there's going to be bugs, we've all been zoomed in on certain things

I'll upload it to nexus soon with a big beta sign

[gritty geode]

I was going to add you to the mod page as an author, that's why 😊

don't have to 😊

[real ravine]

nah, dont really care

[gritty geode]

Kay 😊 nn

[gritty geode]

nah im in Texas 😊

[minor smelt]

Have to say this could all be true, but also think DF made quite rash conclusions at the time all based on very indirect evidence. It all seems likely to be true, but doesn't make it true.

Per rule #2 in #📋welcome-rules-info I want to remind both @shadow heath and @real ravine to "treat everyone and their views with respect." and "This means no [...] presenting own questionable statements (including technical statements) as facts". If you want to continue this conversation in the correct manner, I would like to ask you to continue that in #💬chat

[hybrid violet]

HMMM

might be onto something radical

not sure how I did it

but I went and just started unticking shit

and now shading count hits high quality much sooner

on vs off

and perf is up

off vs on 8 shade count

just trying to confirm what the change is that gained me frames

yeah idk but I can now run 32 fps base and 60fps after frame gen on 32 shading samples

[gaunt skiff]

Nvidia being a shitty company is one thing, but 5 years ago you would have needed a small render farm for none-real time path tracing.
It's so expensive that it was inefficient to use even for offline rendering like a decade ago.
If you go back to 2018 and told someone dealing with computer graphics for a living that in 2023 you will be able to run PT in real time on a single GPU, you would get laughed out of the room

[shadow heath]

I was not the one presenting (totally baseless) conspiracy theories as some plain fact. Why am I being berated for putting those into question? Like what someone here comes on talking about the flat Earth and you're supposed to say all opinions are equal 🤣
Also DF made no rash conclusions of any kind, they just went through the evidence, which is inconclusive but very obviously points towards a certain thing
Either way I have nothing more to say on the topic

[shadow heath]

There's also tons of people promoting another idea: Nvidia pays developers to make rasterized graphics works, so that RT looks better by comparison
At some point there were loads of people straight up saying that RT and ML hardware was fake
Then there was the people saying that the optical flow hardware on 40xx is not actually better and Nvidia's FG is just being artificially segmented
it never ends

[minor smelt]

What might be obvious to him might not be obvious for you and the other way around. So, just respect that. If you find something baseless, it is my job to handle that, which I did.

[gaunt skiff]

I distinctively remember Hardware Unboxed guy suggesting that 4A made raster GI worse in Metro Exodus because of Nvidia sponsorship
Needless to say, the channel has been on my ignored list ever since

[minor smelt]

As in he knew it was just speculation?

[shadow heath]

You entertain such an idea at all?

Games are developed primarily for console hardware and lowest common denominator

They are made as well as the developers can for that hardware

[gaunt skiff]

No, as in HUB knows that they are AMD fanboys favorites, and are throwing them red meat

[minor smelt]

Let's try to stick to facts and not fanboy-theories

[shadow heath]

People want to dishonestly mix certain Nvidia anti-consumer behaviors with stuff like this which is simply made up

And as pointed out earlier if someone wants to start this theme of GPU vendor paying off developers for X, then there's only evidence of AMD behaving that way

If CDPR hadn't ditched REDEngine I wager they'd probably have spent more time trying to optimize the PT implementation

But it was pretty much done as a tech demo

They just don't care that much about it. So it's great that modders are able to optimize and fix some things

[minor smelt]

Put a pin in this discussion, now. You lot didn't move the discussion as told by me, keep being off-topic here and keep bringing in opinions in as facts , so this is the only solution.

The discussion is obviously fruitless anyways, so....

[gritty geode]

is that just turning off ReGIRDI though? in which case it will use RTXDI (which isn't necessarily a bad thing)

@gaunt skiff @shadow heath can you please continue this argument somewhere else? trying to do development here 😂

Cyberpunk 2077 - Ultra Plus development

[hybrid violet]

ReGIR still had its runtime cost

And visual impact

[hybrid violet]

The two commands I think are most likely to have contributed when disabled are EnableFixed and ImportanceSampling

As they both had visible fps impacts not normally positive when enabled or disabled live

Meaning they do something for sure

Otherwise the big changes are disabling the absolute swath of RayTracing vars, enabling InitialTemporalCandidates and all that while also keeping both RIS vars on

Ah also disabling adaptive sampling

I think Enable Fixed might have interplay with Probabilistic as they’re in the same category

Maybe RIS and ImportanceSampling have interplay

ImportanceSampling vs ReGIR (naive path is IS?)

I don’t think it’s disabling all the ray tracing vars tbh (global shadow, diffuse; AO, etc)

Also turned off local light PDF var and debug ReSTIRGI duplicate var

Didn’t have time to break down all the changes just an experiment but it appears a productive one

And before I can confirm whether this performance change is pure positive or start breaking it down I should know if it actually cost anything visually

I don’t think we did but should confirm

[hybrid violet]

Quality impact?

All interesting but I did definitively gain performance and could do 32 samples at the cost of 20

But 20 was doing more than 20 did

And 8 looked surprisingly usable

[gritty geode]

it won't work indoors though though, regir for DI is needed for LLs indoors

some small performance and bugfixes pushed

(tiny)

i think local lights batch size is only running one batch per frame, so if you lower the batch size, LLs just don't get drawn ... so basically batch size should be as big as RayTracing/LocalLight/Capacity

this could be why some people (i think without ultra fog) report smoke/steam flickering ... steam is a particle effect that uses a fake backlight 🤔

[gritty geode]

oh okay! that's different then
i have the feeling ReGIRGI+DI is using a different codepath and possibly some duplicated code (from the old RTXDI / ReSTIR code) is still running

i'll take a look at your changes in a sec 😊

black sorceress needs coffeee badly

[hybrid violet]

I googled rendering for 2077 and there was this Local Light pass in the lighting and it was some weird low res buffer image

[gritty geode]

yes, naive (and everything) should be IS and/or RIS ... the question is whether IS gets accidentally/incidentally done twice

[hybrid violet]

Might be unrelated just worth noting

[gritty geode]

afaik the paths are either one of:

• IS > naive > denoisers (ReLAX + RTXDI in CP) ... OR
• IS > RIS > naive > denoisers
• IS > RIS > ReSTIR > denoisers (ReSTIRGI + RTXDI in CP)
• ReGIR > IS > RIS > ReSTIRGI+DI > denoisers

[hybrid violet]

When I looked into ReGIRs code and RTXDI, it was basically
Uniform or RIS or ReGIR (with some inside uniform vs RIS at one spot inside ReGIR)

[gritty geode]

but because we're in untested code (and i don't consider CP's code to be properly tested anyway), it's reasonable to assume enabling one path doesn't necessarily disable [all of] another (including regular ray tracing)

the only way to know for sure is to run PIX and capture the frame timings for all of these modes

(and or reverse CP)

also something weird i just noticed .. shader executing reordering (SER) is a little slower for path traced (EnableReferenceSER) .... this is hardware level GPU queue optimisation, and i can't think of any reason it should be slower (other than if the pipeline is so short and regular, it costs more GPU to reorder it than to just do it)

so i've disabled it

[gritty geode]

so you disabled both of these and FPS improved?

[hybrid violet]

Yeah all of that was disabled basically

[gritty geode]

or they are just taking up frame time on an entirely irrelevant code path

[gritty geode]

nice 😊

[hybrid violet]

I found it boosted my FPS at least, are you 3000 or 4000?

[gritty geode]

if it works indoors, taht's amazing

3070 Ti in a laptop

[hybrid violet]

Maybe that’s it

[gritty geode]

so like 3060 Ti

absolutely possible

[gritty geode]

my guess is they added ReGIR and then released before they had time to work on it

[hybrid violet]

RTXDI/rtxdi-sdk/include/rtxdi/InitialSamplingFunctions.hlsli at main · NVIDIAGameWorks/RTXDI · GitHub

https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/RTXDI/blob/main/rtxdi-sdk/include/rtxdi/InitialSamplingFunctions.hlsli

[gritty geode]

my reasoning is, everything else rebuilds live ... if they'd had some time for release testing of ReGIR, they would have realised it doesn't (re)build the grid live and fixed it

so that means there are quite possibly other problems like other parts of code not being deactivated

[hybrid violet]

This is true. It’s funny with the ReSTIR GI shaders you can see them give up on the other shaders live as they left them in debug mode

And only used Fused

Which in the code is implemented single shader

Vs the other multi pass multi shader means

Turn off fused and you get half half comparison on your screen

[gritty geode]

i don't think probabilistic or rays are doing anything for ReGIR

oddly, if i set reference/bouncennum to 1 or 3 it slows down

but 2 is fine ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hybrid violet]

I’m inclined to agree, I did my testing with 8 rays

Should murder my perf

Nothin

Turn off ReGIR and fps tanks

I think shading count may even be rays

[gritty geode]

no ... these generally aren't used at all for path tracing anyway ... only ForceAllShadows afaik

yup. rays are for naive only imo

[hybrid violet]

Or samples per pixel

[gritty geode]

i think it's the equivalent, yeah ... i've been thinking of it as "rays per grid sector" 🤔 (rightly or rongly 😂)

[hybrid violet]

Hmmmm is ImportanceSampling MIS (Multiple Importance Sampling) perhaps? I know they mentioned it being a final pass on the image

For quality

[hybrid violet]

It’s something odd

But it’s damn effective like with the files above I was getting super usable results at 8

And 16 looked mostly converged

[gritty geode]

i agree btw 24 samples is about where things get really good. i think we should target 24 for insane

actually ... it's probably something like
buildnumber is the number of RIS areas per ReGIR grid sector
shadernumber is the number of rays per buildnumber per ReGIR

or something like that 🤔

we might find out on the weekend

[hybrid violet]

If I can recommend if you try the files when you get a chance, compare 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 24 and 32

[gritty geode]

16 buuild?

[hybrid violet]

Before 4 or 2 looked darker

Shading

Now 4 or 2 looks just less quality

[gritty geode]

huh okay

24 was an obvious improvement on cars in dark lighting

yep i will, downloading now

[hybrid violet]

It also helps disocclusion restore itself faster

Like have a shadow from a pole and a car drive through it

4-8 take a bit to recover. I found 24 or 32 sorted itself out fairly fast

4-8 your relying on the denoiser to accumulate

24 or 32 I think have a strong enough signal for the denoiser to trigger its fast path and fill quickly

[gritty geode]

yep

[gritty geode]

agreed

oh! also

these bright lines at a distance are phi luminance

they only appear in disocclusion

also NRD is fairly broken with those phi settings ... that is why CDPR had them so low

[hybrid violet]

We can go 1 1 I think, that’s settings I’ve seen in portal too

[gritty geode]

NRD can't deal with them

[hybrid violet]

But 2 is basically like cleanliness

[gritty geode]

yup

yes. we can leave it, and switch them when we detect NRD / RR change easily enough

[hybrid violet]

Works for me. Worth testing 1 vs 2 at some point

[gritty geode]

which i think is probably better than just nuking them

jup 😊

it's also possible CDPR applied some scaling factor ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hybrid violet]

One thing I’ll try when home is compare all this vs vanilla

Like pure vanilla

[gritty geode]

oh, you've disabled ReLAX amterial test for everything?

*material

[hybrid violet]

Yeah it’s basically do we spatial test this material

For fast and history fix

I’m trying everything tested

Though it needs observation

Also, SSR fallback

Must be on I think

Vs appartment cooks itself without it dancing shit in reflections

Like fireflies or sampling issues ReGIR or no ReGIR

[gritty geode]

yes. it's used as a performance optimisation for rough reflections

idk if that's still true for ReGIR tho

i'm merging our code since you didn't 😭 lmao

you've only tested this with ReGIR?

[hybrid violet]

Yeah

[hybrid violet]

Sorry this is all cause it got late so I was just like fuck it what if

[gritty geode]

haha you're fine 😊

that's when the best things are discovered tbh

the other thing to remember is even if some unused function isn't taking up frame time, it may be allocating memory .. another reason to disable anything we're not certain is important

[hybrid violet]

This is very true. Best way to test imo what helped is like put shading count to 3 and then test when its luminance drops entirely

Maybe 4. Ideally 4 should be usable image wise while before it tanked the overall luminance of the image

[gritty geode]

i've moved AdaptiveSampling to setmodes

is there a reason SetOption("RayTracing/Collector", "VisibilityCullingRadius", "2000.0") is increased to 2000 ?

[hybrid violet]

Yeah I did a lot of testing

200 is the minimum, 100 and 50 was having issues with pop in of shadows in and out

2000 helped avoid some scenarios where far buildings shadows were appearing and disappearing

1500 might be doable but I went to 2000 for safety

But I wouldn’t drop below 200 offset which just decided the radius which BVH culling is ignored

Seems it’s too aggressive at 100

[gritty geode]

you're quite a way behind the code

can you please update after this

[hybrid violet]

Yeah I hadn’t updated last night will when I’m home

[gritty geode]

is boiling filter even required for ReSTIRGI with ReGIR?

i'm merging everything 😊

[hybrid violet]

I think so but can be reduced to 0.2

Less bias but def wouldn’t nuke it

I’ve enabled btw Global Light as it seemed to help perf but it seems to be some alternate implementation of sunlight

I found the radiance from it to be much closer to what you’d expect, the shadows much higher quality especially in the far distance

Any bugs from it are when the frustum is too low

Causes issues with pop in

Which implies a different tracing means

Maybe more directly integrated into PT?

Either way with that option a larger radius BVH makes sense

Also interestingly you get like moonlight with Global Light

[gritty geode]

okay i've moved that to setmode

[gritty geode]

VisibilityFrustumOffset or VisibilityCullingRadius?

[gritty geode]

yes, i believe it can also cause double shadows on some character mesh mods

what's the perf difference?

[gritty geode]

what are you using, 2000?

[gritty geode]

oooh nice

[hybrid violet]

Very minor

[hybrid violet]

Offset mainly

[hybrid violet]

Yeah the default

1500 is prob safe

[gritty geode]

it's not a huge deal it's just every ms counts

[hybrid violet]

I may have noticed this, surely we can fix that somewhere

[gritty geode]

i think it's a bug in the body mesh mods?

it happens with regir too?

[gritty geode]

oh so are you increasing VisibilityFrustumOffset to 1500?

[hybrid violet]

Might be worth testing now again post mass disable

[hybrid violet]

Oh not offset 200

[gritty geode]

okay 😊

[hybrid violet]

Radius 2000

[hybrid violet]

There’s some line about the first person model in reflections right

Or in ray tracing

[gritty geode]

mm i can't remember 🤔

okay, pushing merges

i've moved a lot of stuff to setmodes and setquality

okay beta03 is live 😊

also now the debug drawer only renders if config.DEBUG = true now (hopefully, i can't test rn 😊)

[hybrid violet]

Nice, should prevent people breaking things

[gritty geode]

please trust me and pull, i'm not doing that again 😂

[hybrid violet]

Will do for sure first thing 🙂

Approximate Target PDF is mentioned in that slides power point pres by CDPR

They were trying something to avoid a simpler means they ended up implementing

[gritty geode]

oh okay. i just enabled it for everything

ah

[hybrid violet]

Idk if we’ve removed that simpler thing

I agree we should test it

[gritty geode]

i see no difference but it's a bit faster

[hybrid violet]

Oh nice

[gritty geode]

like 0.25 fps but every bit adds up

rule 1 of real time 3D - remove as much as possible as early as possible

[hybrid violet]

Also emissive proxy light rejection found out what it is

In these markets somewhere in the city it turned off a light in front of an emissive mesh

It’s basically like don’t proxy the emissive light as an actual light

Just rely on the emissive

I think they were trying things with emissive triangle lights and removing some of the analytical lights used to boost them where appropriate

But ended up with their naive emissive and just kept the analytical light

It doesn’t work reliably and will cull some lights imo tho since we can’t do emissive triangle lights we should keep it off

Or maybe for low

[gritty geode]

ah okay, nice one

pushed an update to remove it all ... i also removed Guess...() .... which i swear i did earlier? it's got me worried now

[hybrid violet]

Oh reference SER

Shader execution reordering

So prob yes may not be ideal for the 3000 series

But def for 4000 series should be on

[gritty geode]

it should work well on both tbh

i don't think there's enough shaders to reorder with PT

[hybrid violet]

I’ll check again, but for me at least I gained like 6 frames with it on

24 fps to 30fps

[gritty geode]

oh no you might be right

okay, needs to go back on then

pushed a fix

[gritty geode]

@hybrid violet CyanideX is getting 140fps on insane at 1440p 😂

[gaunt hinge]

is that how much you get with a 4090 with the new changes?

[gritty geode]

https://streamable.com/quz1z7

yes

he didn't have samples at insane... now does, and now getting 120 fps

[gaunt hinge]

still

really good

[hybrid violet]

Crazy

[gritty geode]

yay!

[gaunt hinge]

looks really good, too