▫️Horizon: Zero Dawn Remaster/Forbidden West

[sonic pawn]

That’s lossless scaling ghosting

On the first video

[unreal niche]

i mean the 2nd

on the right

[fringe agate]

it's doing surprisingly well for the information it has, but it costs a lot of horsepower

[sonic pawn]

The second yeah that’s dlss 3

4090

[fringe agate]

you were targetting 60 as base fps?

[sonic pawn]

Yes

[fringe agate]

you need to cap the fps, hfw has horrible framepacing and only capping the fps fixes it, lsfg does its own pacing/capping so it probably also covers the pacing issues

[fringe agate]

imo 60 is too low for framegen, but more power to you

[sonic pawn]

I play on TV so that’s the lowesr possible

Anything above 60 causes issues for me

[celest nest]

honestly it's hard to judge with a recording like that. i'd like to see a very high quality 120fps video of lossless scaling someday, maybe it's out there somewhere

[celest nest]

dlssg is perfectly smooth for me in hfw on a 4090

but i don't cap frames aside from vrr. not sure why you do?

[sonic pawn]

See if you notice any camera judder in areas like Plainsong and Fleets End

[sonic pawn]

I only cap them when I use lossless scaling. It’s required or it becomes a stuttering mess

[celest nest]

ah

[sonic pawn]

When I use dlss frame gen it’s “capped” automatically. I’m assuming at 58fps in my case, because max frame rate becomes 116

[unreal niche]

i'd say 40fps base is the lowest I can tolerate

[fringe agate]

maybe in a game like skyrim

[unreal niche]

in cyberpunk I can tolerate some dips to the 80s

[fringe agate]

but not in anything that involves actual aiming like any fps games or HFW

[unreal niche]

also i play with a controller

[sonic pawn]

https://youtu.be/bXbS6bcKNP0?si=U-G80LrPnPqVe7Re I posted this a while ago. This is the camera judder I get in fleets end. This is higher quality

[fringe agate]

capped vs uncapped

[celest nest]

it's still not what you see because it's a 60fps vid (not claiming what you say is not true, just that we can't see the same thing on youtube)

[fringe agate]

fair

[celest nest]

iirc nukem said the stutter is cpu related

like you can be lucky and not have issues

[sonic pawn]

That makes sense since it happens more often in areas with lots of NPCS like plainsong and fleets end

[fringe agate]

am pretty sure it is yeah, capping so that your cpu always has to wait solves the pacing it seems

[lavish vessel]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ7AhpcW8AE5LB6?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
From the upcoming DF video

[celest nest]

yeah "lossless" is about what i expected. but wow i expected fsr3 to be better?

[fringe agate]

FSR still artrifacty, but significantly better than LSFG holy shit

[celest nest]

whats going on there

[fringe agate]

I noticed it handles disocclusion pretty badly

in GoT it's noticable

[celest nest]

but it has access to the previous frame and the next one, right, so whats going on? almost looks like bad inputs

[fringe agate]

could be

in the puredark fsr 3 mod for skyrim I don't notice these same artifacts

[kindred berry]

Because you don't notice input lag

Lots of people do

[fringe agate]

The input lag is fine if you get reflex and like 80-100 fps as base fps.

[kindred berry]

Again, to you
For a lot of people, the input lag from frame gen is nasty

[broken condor]

That's a pretty high base framerate. I think most people using it are using it because they can't even get framerates that high.

[sonic pawn]

Oh I do notice it. But between input lag and camera judder, I’d go with input lag

[fringe agate]

I just want to use it to get closer to my monitors refresh rate and get better motion clarity

[fringe agate]

great improvement in fps, it's much more stable now too, which is surprising but nice

there is some weirtd windup behaviour though, it starts at like 60 fps and slowly creeps up

[next kiln]

for me post patch frame pacing is worse lol

like way worse

at least around fleet's end

yea seems worse in general

without reflex/FG

unless the DLC is more graphically intensive or something

[fringe agate]

the fg specifically was fixing the pacing, without fg it's dog

[fringe agate]

it is, especially the clouds, they got some advanced volumetric cloud tech in the dlc

[next kiln]

is it better with FG now?

[fringe agate]

turning down the cloud quality can save you like 20% perf from what I heard

[next kiln]

it's just the pacing

i'm hitting my target framerate

but without FG now it's choppy

[fringe agate]

yeah, well before FG didn't work at al for me since 30 series and all

[fringe agate]

yeah without fg I had to cap to 80 to prevent massive pacing issues

but with fg I can uncap and just hover around 150-170

[next kiln]

i'm at 80 and i'm still getting pacing issues with FG off

who knows

[fringe agate]

too bad SK doesn't like FSR fg

with HDR

[fringe agate]

I am using dlss Q

[next kiln]

i was using DLAA

but before it was mostly fine

before the patch at least

[fringe agate]

hmm

idek

[next kiln]

yea SK crashes with FG lol

nvm it's fine now

it does that sometimes

performance sucks and i have to restart the game and it's smooth

weird

[fringe agate]

nixxes only makes perfect ports wdym?

[next kiln]

haha

[thick salmon]

How can FG fix frame pacing? It should stay the exact same on the graph, but the generated frames can make it feel smoother...

[fringe agate]

Idk exactly, but due to the fact that fg is interpolation, it needs to delay the scanout of the latest frame to generate the intermediate frame. This means that it needs to decide now when to actually scan the frame out instead of instantly. Fg by definition needs to pace its frames differently. So if the default way is shit then I can imagine it doing fairly well at improving the pacing.

[fringe agate]

I think that's why I'm seeing this ramping mechanism. This looks exactly like an overdamped system, where it tries to pace the frames more closely to each other, slowly reaching steady state.

But ofc am a layperson so could be am talking garbage.

[sonic pawn]

Im just so glad lossless scaling worked for me and eliminated pretty much all the issues and camera judder. Too bad that it was after I beat the game and the dlc haha

[next kiln]

what is lossless scaling again?

[tulip canopy]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/993090/Lossless_Scaling/

Steam

Lossless Scaling

Lossless Scaling allows you to scale windowed games to full screen using the state-of-the-art scaling algorithms, as well as use ML based proprietary scaling and frame generation.Frame generation options: LSFGScaling options: LS1 AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution NVIDIA Image Scaling Integer Scaling Nearest Neighbor xBR Anime4K Sharp Bilinear Bicu...

Price

$5.59

Recommendations

6021

Dunno how it fixes any camera issues

[sonic pawn]

I believe the camera issues get worse as the frame rates goes above 60. That’s why not even the ingame frame gen doesn’t fix the problem. But lossless seems to work somewhat independent of the game, so maybe that’s why? Or it could even be an issue with VRR. I haven’t tested that though.

[next kiln]

For other games, how is lossless scaling's framegen vs nvidia FG

[tulip canopy]

bad

[sonic pawn]

Depends on the game. I only tested it in a few. In Jedi survivor it’s worse but that game runs like crap regardless. In starfield it’s very similar to NVIDIA fg, but it has more ghosting. I’m forespoken it’s way better than AMDs frame generation. NVIDIA’s FG will almost always be better, but this is a good option for games that have an underlying issue, like horizon or games that don’t support nvidias frame gen and emulators that are heavily cpu limited

[thick salmon]

Lossless scaling won't actually remove the judder, only generate frames in between to make the issue perceivably less, but it is still there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69k7ZXLK1to

Can be nice, but has lots of extra limitations compared to FSR and DLSS FG

[fringe agate]

In that video Alex also missed that it doesn't support VRR on nvidia cards

[thick salmon]

Plus this is a bit weird... It's just "dumb" frame interpolation, which has been around for long. People laughed at it as it can give uncanny results riddled with artefacts... So, but surprised why it would get popular now...

Or even relevant...

Again, for select few games it can improve things, but this tech has been around for long...

[fringe agate]

the devs claim it's some kind of AI algo

would explain the insane load

[sonic pawn]

Oh it’s definetly not dumb. It’s a great piece of tech which works wonders in games that don’t support dlss/fsr and emulators. I don’t think this app was meant to compete against dlss and fsr, but to help with those games that don’t support it. Take Elden Ring for example, the game is capped at 60. You can turn it on and just like that you get 120 and can still play it online.

[sonic pawn]

I don’t think it removes the judder. I think what removes the judder is capping the game at 60fps, at least for me that’s what I noticed. But i played the game on the ps5 and there it goes above 60 so I wanted something to get better frames than the ps5. That’s where the scaling came in and was a better solution because it works kinda independently from the game.

[thick salmon]

Looks honestly very much like just interpolation to me... Any more info on this?

[fringe agate]

Alex says it himself in the video

that's all I got

[thick salmon]

Dumb as in: without any motion or object data... Just comparing two images and generating frames in between

[fringe agate]

yes capping to 60 fixed the judder for sure

[thick salmon]

I'll dig deeper into this then maybe tomorrow if I have the time

[fringe agate]

#1042894387581030472 message

[sonic pawn]

Ill see if I can find a way to properly record what I’m seeing without it being through my phone.

[rich lark]

Do you have reflex on in both cases?

[sonic pawn]

Yes. Same settings, except for FG

[rich lark]

I get that same looking stutter with reflex on at any settings.

[weary ridge]

it's just frame interpolation for games

[fringe agate]

#1220402379321770027 messagethis is with reflex on + boost

FSR 3 fg seems to handle framepacing really well, just need to have vsync enabled ingame too

[spiral fable]

I just started playing this…what’s the deal with the judder? Any particular fix?

[thick salmon]

What hardware are you using at what settings?

[spiral fable]

7950x3d, 4090, all max, 4k DLAA, 60fps vsync

i disabled reflex and it was better, at the expense of some input latency

but yeah with reflex even at 60 there is noticeable camera judder pretty frequently, if you look for it

don't think its a lack of hitting 60, doesn't look like that does typically on this OLED...even something like 58 FPS is fairly noticeable

[fringe agate]

Disable reflex and cap fps

Or use framegen, for me that helped.

[weary ridge]

I disabled reflex, framegen, capped the framerate to 85 and I used quality DLSS with max settings

I didn't really notice any judder/stutter

but I was also using a controller

[thick salmon]

Definitely low-spec hardware. Next time please test on the Ultra-RTX 8090 instead and use those high-end Snapdragon processors instead. AMD sucks and Intel went out of business a loooong time ago.

[spiral fable]

Game feels really good with reflex compared to ps5…unfortunate

[thick salmon]

*PS7 Pro

[fringe agate]

https://tenor.com/view/skyrim-margin-awake-marginskyrim-gif-20155428

[thick salmon]

I now just live in the future instead of The Matrix... or just losing my mind now... or both 😏

[sonic pawn]

I have a similar build to yours. I have a 120hz oled tv, so I capped the fps with Rivia Turner at 60fps, and used lossless scaling frame generation to double the fps to 120. It’s the best solution I found. I also kept reflex on. Runs beautifully.

[next kiln]

I did similar to Mpaul on a 4080. Reflex and FG off. Cap at 80

[sonic pawn]

Many solutions here. See what works best for you.

[spiral fable]

My OLED is old so only supports 60hz. But even just that + reflex creates a judder. Turning reflex off fixes.

[sonic pawn]

Oh I see. Try using Rivia Tuner reflex, see if that helps. Or use ultra low latency on NVIDIA control panel. That might help with input

[broken condor]

I just use SK. Lower the framerate limit until there are 0 frames of latency consistently. That's around 90 FPS.

If you look at a frame pacing graph alone, you're going to get the wrong idea.

It's the oscillating between 0 and 1 frames of latency that you need to avoid at all costs.

And yeah, don't use frame generation in this game. It'll just put a permanent ring around your UI, lol.

[fringe agate]

for some reason that didn't bother me, but I guess am just not paying attention to the ui at all since am not bothered by the 200 nits whitepoint UI either

[weary ridge]

I'm more and more disappointed by frame generation tbh

frame gen is almost always borken in some way in newer games

[broken condor]

It's always broken in older games too

Well, except for Forspoken. Probably the only correctly functioning implementation of frame generation I've ever seen.

Of course that's helped by it not using DLSS.

UI's nice and legible and latency is okay'ish.

[next kiln]

it worked fine in cyberpunk

i think

[weary ridge]

Yes and it's an old game haha

Alan Wake 2 and Cyberpunk are good examples

[weary ridge]

oh interesting, but I can't bring myself to play that game lol

the free to play First descendant was promoted by nvidia and it's as horrible as it gets

I guess we can also blame Unreal Engine 5

[next kiln]

It's both old and new haha

[weary ridge]

yea haha, the DLC actually feels like another game

[next kiln]

yea, it does

feels good to be done playing that game for a while though. Modding it is kinda annoying

i'm just working on the HFW DLC

so this game is weird (HFW)

maybe weird in a good way

it forces you to do side quests

otherwise you won't be at the recommended level for the main quest

like you NEED to do a shit ton of side quests to level up, otherwise you'll get destroyed in the main quest

[weary ridge]

I was really impressed by the cloud system, it's static yea, but it's still impressive imo

[next kiln]

you can't just do the main stuff

[weary ridge]

Idk I had no trouble with the difficulty, but I did not skip stuff

I was always overleveled

[next kiln]

Hmm I feel like I did all the high level side quests I have and I'm only AT the level that the main quest requires

perhaps I just haven't discovered a lot of the other side quests

there are a lot

I'm a bit disappointed in the storyline of the DLC. I wish they just ended things after you ||kill whatever her name is in the giant mech. This whole nemesis thing is just dragging it out for the sake of more games and it feels cheap to me.||

screams "mass effect reaper lore change" to me

[sonic pawn]

I thought it was ok! The UI elements are not included tho so it looks very of putting.

[sonic pawn]

That’s interesting. DLSS frame gen always work me, in every game a played. One exception was Jedi Survivor, which had horriblble ghosting. Fortunately there was an easy fix: just replace the frame gen file for an older version. In Every other game it works very well, like in Starfield, Cyberpunk, the Witcher 3, etc. you just gotta make sure you turn on V Sync or the image gets all crappy.

[weary ridge]

Artifacts and ghosting are just not bothering you that much I think

[sonic pawn]

The secret to HFW is learning how to use the right weapons/abilities. You gotta take some time to study the game mechanics and effects and how they affect foes. Once you master that, you obliterate most big machines with ease.

[sonic pawn]

I can almost never tell in real gameplay. But I’m curious to know what exactly you’re seeing.

[weary ridge]

And ofc if FG is really broken then it causes all kind of framepacing and stuttering issues too haha

[weary ridge]

Depends on the game I guess. I almost always focus more on the graphics/art design and environment than the gameplay, and presentation glitches/artifacts/ghosting can really ruin a game for me.

I don't care about these stuff in multiplayer games, but I notice the increased input latency too

Which is fine as long as you are not playing aginst other players

depth of field and motion blur are the real enemies of FG haha, I always turn off camera motion blur when the framerate is high enough, but depth of field can look nice

[sonic pawn]

What’s your gpu and monitors refresh rate?

[weary ridge]

4080 and 120hz

Yea it makes little sense to use FG on my setup if the base FPS is higher than 80

I can tolerate ~45 base FPS in single player games if the FG implementation is good enough aka in games like Cyberpunk

[sonic pawn]

Similar to mine. I use frame gen for whatever it is offered so I can max out my monitor’s refresh rate. And I never had a game where frame gen was bad beyond fixing. I guess I wanted to know what type of ghosting you’re seeing that makes it not worth it for you.

[weary ridge]

FG in first person games work better I think

in third person view, I can notice the ghosting around the character, especially if the animations are fast

it's more of a DLSS issue tbh

FG with native res is okayish

[sonic pawn]

4k? And what dlss mode do you usually use?

[weary ridge]

yea 4K and I try to use Quality

Quality DLSS at 4k looks very close to native imo, the ghosting is barely noticeable with preset C/F/E

[sonic pawn]

Do you use dlss 3.7?

[weary ridge]

you mean the dll?

yea

I use preset E for almost everything nowadays

C is still better for very fast animations though

[sonic pawn]

Oh I see. I think it depends on the game. I remember in avatar dlss had some major ghosting then version 3.7, preset E fixed it

[weary ridge]

yea but the game used preset D by default or something

[sonic pawn]

What third person games do you play that have bad ghosting?

[weary ridge]

Forza Horizon 5 hahaha, yea DLSS is horrible in that game, but there are no better options

I remember noticing it in Sword and Fairy 7, but it's another UE4 game

[sonic pawn]

How about in forbidden west?

[weary ridge]

or even in the first descendant

but it has other, more serious issues

[weary ridge]

I don't think that I noticed it, but I used quality mode, preset E

without FG

[sonic pawn]

Got it. I think it has to do with the dlss implementation of those games and not of frame gen in general, maybe?

[weary ridge]

waterfalls were ghosting but that was fixed in one of the patches

[weary ridge]

yea FG definitely amplifies the DLSS issues

the only game where I actually used FG for the whole playthrough was cyberpunk

I turned it off in Alan Wake 2 too

I noticed subtitle, transparency and depth of field artifacts with FG

[sonic pawn]

Got it

[next kiln]

I don't think I've ever seen FG where it has smooth framepacing. There's always choppyness

even in CP if you look at the graph

[sonic pawn]

Maybe it’s the game that’s too gpu intense? Cause frame gen is only on very gpu heavy games.

[unreal niche]

frame gen is even better when cpu limited

[rich lark]

I thought the consensus was that DLSS frame gen is generally better?

[weary ridge]

Yea, turning on FG costs 15-20% GPU perf. which lowers the base FPS and CPU usage.

[fringe agate]

Depends on your fps and how badly you're cpu bottlenecked

[sonic pawn]

I finally have proof that in this game (not saying in general) LSFG is better than DLSS Frame Gen. first video is the game running with dlss quality + frame gen and very unstable frame times.

Second video the game has perfect frame times and running at 120. The downside is that VRR is not available but the frame rate is super stable at 120fps making VRR not needed for my particular case.

[next kiln]

I got bored of the dlc 😦

The story just wasn't interesting

Felt like the game was dragging on for the sake of making a dlc 😕

[unreal niche]

What does the frame gen conflict thing say

[broken condor]

Says that something's gone horribly wrong and the game is applying frame generation to SK's UI 🙂

So, expect lots of artifacts. Expect the reported framerate to be half what it actually is, etc.

[sonic pawn]

“Possible frame gen conflict”

[sonic pawn]

Damn

[weary ridge]

The end boss is really cool though

[weary ridge]

Yea, but what about the artifacts?

[sonic pawn]

Some ghosting around the character upon movement which is not really noticeable upon regular gameplay. Yeah if you zoom in and slow down you’ll notice but no one really plays like that haha. But the poor frame pacing of the dlss frame gen is very noticeable.

[weary ridge]

I'm the exception haha, but I would just lock it to 70-90fps without frame gen but with VRR, it's better than both imo.

[sonic pawn]

You’re the exception as to what?

[weary ridge]

"Yeah if you zoom in and slow down you’ll notice but no one really plays like that haha."

I actually like to "take in" the world/art design by slowly inspecting everything haha😅

[sonic pawn]

Oh me too. But I don’t notice ghosting in regular gameplay, even when I just stop to contemplate. I’d only actually notice it if I forced myself to look for it and by recording a scene and then slowing the scene and zooming in.

[broken condor]

I don't even have to be trying to pixel peep to see DLSS (DLAA's okay'ish) and frame generation artifacts 😕 These things are permanently off for me.

Cursed I guess, I notice frame pacing problems and image quality problems and they distract me from the game my ADHD mind is already having trouble focusing on 🙂

[next kiln]

Meh. I think I'm done with this game

main game was solid tho

[coarse narwhal]

hi
just started playing. running nvidia gpu and LG C9 with latest patch (that supposedly fixed HDR?)

my problem is that even after reading through all the internet's suggestions for ingame settings (brightness 750 / 200 currently) i still have the problem that the game looks overly bright (overexposed?) and washed out in daytime outside environments. This is especially true for the first areas and that desert area after the embassy quest. it is really eye searing.

once i enter a cave or shadowy area everything is fine-ish.

any ideas would be much appreciated

[lavish vessel]

It's just how the game looks, not much can be done about it really

Game tonemapper just swings between overexposure in daylight exteriors and underexposure in nighttime/interiors

it happens in SDR too

[coarse narwhal]

thanks for the reply but god damnit! it looks so beautiful in certain areas but then in others it's just an overexposed mess burning my eyes out... 😦

no reshade magic that could fix this?

tried messing around with curves. that kind of fixed it for the bright areas but then once you enter a cave or during night time you cannot make out shit anymore 😦

[lavish vessel]

Nothing that would work only on daytime afaik

[coarse narwhal]

then i guess i will have to keep pressing that reshade button when required...

[coarse narwhal]

so using joytokey i bound the xbox controller's share button to enabling/disabling reshade... dirty fix but (kind of) works 😄
thanks again

[broken condor]

lol, this game.... never ceases to amaze me how bad Nixxes is at HDR.

08/04/2024 17:38:35.784: [ DXGI HDR ] <*> HDR Metadata: HDR10 (Uh oh)
08/04/2024 17:38:35.784: [IDXGI Wrap] HDR Metadata: Max Mastering=59054 nits, Min Mastering=0.000100 nits, MaxCLL=929 nits, MaxFaLL=500 nits

They apparently think the game was mastered at 59k nits

Because they didn't read the docs correctly.

Had to push a fix for this crap directly into SK.

MaxMasteringLuminance

The maximum number of nits of the display used to master the content. Values are in whole nits.

They're scaling the value wrong, having never read the actual docs.

HDR metadata's stupid for games, I wish it would go away.

08/04/2024 18:10:52.199: [ DXGI HDR ] <*> HDR Metadata: HDR10 (Uh oh)
08/04/2024 18:10:52.199: [IDXGI Wrap] HDR Metadata: Max Mastering=500 nits, Min Mastering=0.100000 nits, MaxCLL=500 nits, MaxFaLL=100 nits

That's from Cyberpunk 2077, a game that implements this correctly (never thought I'd say that about CP2077's HDR).

[coarse narwhal]

even though i don't understand half of what you are writing it is baffling how bad Studios are to this day (2024!) with handling HDR

[fringe agate]

the LG 27GR95QE actually takes the max CLL and tonemaps to that, it's not good.

[next kiln]

Did horizon forbidden west have the metadata issue for you? It didn't for me. Only the first game did

[fringe agate]

HFW also passes metadata

Just that it passes non-garbage metadata

So you probably set peak to around 630 and it tonemapped to that, which is imperceivable from the HGIG mode

[next kiln]

But the service menu osd reports 603. It must be passing through the correct metadata. It must read the system

[broken condor]

It sets garbage mastering values

[fringe agate]

For me it repors whatever the peak value I set it to

[fringe agate]

Ah okay, but for peak it's correct.

[next kiln]

Peak value where?

At the system level?

It reads the system level calibration doesn't it?

[fringe agate]

In the game

[next kiln]

I'll have to re-test it. Could have sworn it reads system level for peak

[next kiln]

@fringe agateI just tested it again to make sure. My monitor service menu reports 603 regardless of what I set the in-game peak brightness to?

yours changes? are you sure? I see no good reason why we should have different results here when we have the same monitor and the same results for every other game? That makes no sense.

[coarse narwhal]

does anyone have an idea why Lilium's HDR Shaders crash the game for me?

[lavish vessel]

did you installed them via Reshade?

Do you have any other shaders? maybe something is conflicting

[coarse narwhal]

yea installed via reshade. and i have a couple of other shaders, nothing exotic though just standard. ill try removing them all except for lilium

[next kiln]

Okay figured it out. The game appears to send the correct system level calibration metadata for peak. If I make another ICC profile with 800 nits peak, the monitor reports 800

the reason it was reporting 603 for me is because that's what my system level was set to

[tulip canopy]

Nice

Icc profiles ftw

[next kiln]

yea I just use the colorcontrol one at srgb 80 nits for HDR stuff and occasionally use the 100 nit 2.2 one if i'm watching youtube videos on firefox or playing cs2 or something

Regardless, the game shouldn't be sending any metdata, even if the peak is right

glad the new SK verison just blocks this across the board

also glad that helldivers 2 doesn't seem to have the metadata issue since i don't use SK for that (anti cheat)

[fringe agate]

Yeah got an empty profile to just prevent HDR mode from loading the SDR profile.

[next kiln]

yea the srgb 80 nit one i have functions as a "placeholder"

[sonic pawn]

Could you give examples of what you mean? HDR looks fine for me. Does it look alright on SDR for you? What’s your monitors maximum nits?

[broken condor]

The terrain's pretty bright relative to the UI you often can't read composited on top of it 🙂 I can sympathize.

That ain't good. I'd call that washed out for sure.

Gotta swing the camera around until the UI's over top something in shadow. Ridiculous.

[coarse narwhal]

exactly what @broken condor said. What's even more irritating is that not all areas are affected apparently but definitely the desert ones

[next kiln]

I never have issues with the UI. To me daytime is just a bit too bright overall

and contrast suffers

but it's more or less fine

[weary ridge]

I play with the UI turned off haha

[thick salmon]

That's also a solution haha

[coarse narwhal]

turning off Lens Flare Effects also made a huge difference as it turned out. there's something seriously wrong with those light effects in some places (esp those stupid headlights of all the machines at night were burning out my retina)7

[next kiln]

I always turn off lens flare in games

It's always bad looking

I turned it off in cyberpunk too

[unreal niche]

I like the cyberpunk lens flares

[next kiln]

it's personal preference

i used to hate film grain but now i love it sometimes

[coarse narwhal]

yeah, goes right on the list with chromatic abhorration and motion blur

[next kiln]

lens flare I can see being a personal choice. Chromatic Abberation (hopefully spelled that right) and motion blur are just 🤢

[coarse narwhal]

they spell it aberration but it should be abhorration 😛

[next kiln]

I had to term chromatic whatever off in SOMA. It was actually giving me a headache

not sure how I didn't notice it the first time i played the game

[fringe agate]

CA is just pain, we spend so much money and time on developing good lenses that do not have any CA or other defects, and then we add it back with post processing.

[next kiln]

Yes it's an odd design choice

Soma calls it "color separation"

I think it's supposed to intensify as you get hurt, but the issue is there are long stretches where you can't heal. And it's so intense

[fringe agate]

I think it only works when using it in combination with DoF, where the DoF blur starts spearating the colours

[broken condor]

Oh, neat.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2428810/LEGO_Horizon_Adventures/

Apparently scheduled for Q4 release.

Steam

LEGO® Horizon Adventures™

Coming to PC Holiday 2024.

Release Date

Coming soon

I don't see Traveler's Tales listed as developer. Surprising.

I guess anyone can make a LEGO game in this style.

[thick salmon]

Yeah, Bricktales also wasn't made by TT

[weary ridge]

This is the first Lego game where even the terrain is made out of legos

afaik

[thick salmon]

Bricktales was too right?

Never understood why TT never did that.... probably making kinda realistic art for some things might be easier?

[weary ridge]

Oh you are right

[weary ridge]

designing custom lego pieces is a lot harder and it takes a lot more effort

[thick salmon]

But god it looks so much better

[weary ridge]

indeed 😄

[thick salmon]

The assets in Skywalker saga that are not Legos are often of not really good quality

[thick salmon]

Horizon: Zero Dawn Remaster/Forbidden West

Repurposed this topic also for the Zero Dawn Remaster, as it shares almost the same tech with Forbidden West.

Latest Nvidia 566.03 driver contains optimizations for this game!

[fringe agate]

I wonder if HDR will be broken in the exact same way

Not like I care, won't be playing or buying the upgrade anyway

[steel phoenix]

Crossed fingers that it's fixed

[unreal niche]

Probably will be broken

Forbidden west had broken hdr

[thick salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNkC2BOaboM

[kindred wave]

forbidden west had great HDR (after Vincent tweaks) on ps5

way better than the first game

[fringe agate]

[kindred wave]

i probably will pony up 10 for the remaster on PC just to check it out

[fringe agate]

you serious rn?

[unreal niche]

I didn't like the hdr

but it wasn't as bad as some other games

[kindred wave]

what was wrong with it?

[fringe agate]

read the start of this thread

it was bugged af on launch

[kindred wave]

i said on ps5 brother

[fringe agate]

oh well, ps5

forgor that exists xD

[kindred wave]

is the PC different

[unreal niche]

nah

[fringe agate]

on launch pc was capped to 300

peak slider was bugged

[unreal niche]

oh ya right

ps5 on launch didn't even have peak adjustment

so it just clipped

[fringe agate]

ps5 had variable brightness when moving though

[fringe agate]

ooof

[unreal niche]

iirc shortfuse said the tonemapper was baked into a lut

so they just slapped a simple tonemapper like dice on top to compress the highlights

[fringe agate]

so ye this series had a very spotty launch history with hdr

[kindred wave]

yeah i haven't booted up the ps5 version in like two years or whatever

but i followed vincent's settings and it was definitely better than the first game

[unreal niche]

ya

[kindred wave]

first game suffered heavily from overbrightened dark areas

[unreal niche]

first game's hdr is at least better on pc

[kindred wave]

it's better on PC, but not as good as forbidden west HDR on ps5

IMO

i used liliums to cap the peak but it's still kinda broken

[unreal niche]

pc always has reshade, I got decent enough results in zero dawn

but its still a pretty ugly game imo

[kindred wave]

yeah that's what i used

[unreal niche]

nothing can fix that

[kindred wave]

well the remaster

is it out btw?

i find the game to be weirdly boring at times and was never able to finish it after intially being really impressed with it

[unreal niche]

i still find the art direction ugly

though better than the original

october 31

ya it's very ubisoft in its design

[kindred wave]

I agree with Aeomony (RIP) that forbidden west probably has the best looking NPCs i've seen

not that they are actually interesting because the writing is wooden

[weary ridge]

The only thing that is "ugly" is the lens flare effect and the oversaturation imo

the art direction is not bad, but it's too "fantastic" yea

[celest nest]

horizon feels very sdr-first to me

i’m not sure that’s true, but i feel like the game’s look is very tweaked for sdr, and hdr is just on top of that

[weary ridge]

yea maybe, but I had no problem with HDR and image quality on the PS5

[unreal niche]

strong disagree

the outfits

someone said they look like cosplay and I can't unsee it

[unreal niche]

I like the machine designs a lot but that's kinda the only thing I like

the world is just a little too colorful and contrasty imo

[lavish vessel]

Gotta have to agree with Musa, every Guerrilla game since Killzone 3 feels like postprocessing overload

Like, I can appreciate the tech, but they just look gnarly to me

[unreal niche]

also that combined with all the high frequency detail

like the foliage and textures

[weary ridge]

My only real issue is that everything is very colorful

[lavish vessel]

Strong "baby's first reshade" energy

[weary ridge]

Nah it's nowhere near as bad as those youtube shader videos lol

[unreal niche]

i think part of the reason the game relies on the focus so heavily to guide the player is cause the world is much harder to parse due to all the colors and fine texture detail

[lavish vessel]

Yeah everything is hyper detailed, to the point you cant focus your eye on anything in the frame
It's just visual noise

[unreal niche]

they definitely did improve the machine designs from the last game though

[weary ridge]

It not really an issue though imo

[unreal niche]

It's easier to see the actual parts I need to shoot off

but I still have to rely on the focus

[unreal niche]

making it so that the player can't easily parse the game world makes it so that you're stuck relying on the focus to parse it for you

[lavish vessel]

I don't really think the designs where that much of an issue
Maybe there where, never gotten far enough to know

[weary ridge]

highlighting parts with the focus is part of the combat imo, until you learn where to shoot

[unreal niche]

in the zero dawn it was harder to parse which parts where removable and which parts aren't compared to forbidden west

[celest nest]

yeah kinda that. very deliberate look for sdr, with many tricks

[lavish vessel]

It's also very overexposed, which doesn't translate too well to HDR
It's just makes everything look uniformly bright

[weary ridge]

Idk maybe I just had no issues then, but I usually turn off the hud, map, etc in games to immerse myself more into them

[celest nest]

yeah that probably also falls under the umbrella of whatever i meant by "sdr-first"

[weary ridge]

yea I disliked the overexposed highlights too

it looks like a fantasy disney pixar movie tbh

[lavish vessel]

Tbf most content is SDR first, I don't think the game looks particularly good in SDR either
I just don't vibe with their artistic choices
But the look is the look

[kindred wave]

yeah maybe i agree their environment landscape is samey

[unreal niche]

setting highlights to -5 helped a lot

[kindred wave]

it's crazy seeing a game like Elden Ring, graphically inferior like lighting and shit but like so much better artistically it's a joke

[rose sail]

yeah FS art is close to unbeatable

[lavish vessel]

OG Demon Souls has arguably better art style than the remake

[unreal niche]

the DLCs raised blacks were pretty bad though

[weary ridge]

ER is like an oil painting

[unreal niche]

when its raining at night you can't see shit cause of the raised blacks

[celest nest]

hmm i think what i mean is that in the "sdr-first" cases, all the processing they do undermines how much hdr could improve the look

[rose sail]

ok lol GOG buyers of HZD getting cucked

noice

[rose sail]

yeah remake is technically great art but nothing else

[kindred wave]

I haven't played that yet, I got to like mountaintops of the giants so like 3/4 through the base game i'll go back one day

[weary ridge]

oh I never noticed it, I was too busy focusing on not dying haha

[unreal niche]

I never beat the dlc cause I got too into modding

I think I'll finish it with a ps5 pro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8cRaFjIn5Q
this video is about twice as long as it needs to be and filled with a lot of conjecture but I generally agree with her opinions

[rose sail]

funny thing is how many tricks they use that you don't see

[kindred wave]

yeah i haven't booted up my ps5 in like 6 months i think it's done

I just prefer pc in every way and even when they release shit ports for PC like the underwhelming GOD rag it just is better at 120 fps locked with DLSS and gsync (plus it will be better one day after patched)

i think sony will be day and date one day

[weary ridge]

Why not on PC?

[kindred wave]

even nintendo might go on PC one day, I think they are terrified of the switch being shown up so bad that it's embarassing as opposed to playstation where the difference is minor

[weary ridge]

The PC version runs great now, well if you go offline and you use SK or a similar tool to fix the 60hz limit...

[weary ridge]

I sold mine

[lavish vessel]

They never fixed shaders compilation didn't they?
And I think it has traversal stutter too

[weary ridge]

I don't think that it's fixed, but I did not notice it

[lavish vessel]

Yeah Five-pr0 will probably be the best version of the game

[weary ridge]

I had not a single "feelable" stutter during my DLC playthrough

[kindred wave]

I even played ps4 more their game selection is just shit. Even if games like spiderman and GOW never came to PC playstation isn't worth it for those game

Nintendo actually has a good library but even they barely do

to be worth the price of admission

[weary ridge]

There are like 3-4 Nintendo games that I actually liked

[unreal niche]

too many broken games on pc

its gotten better

but earlier this gen

too many games were broken on pc

but almost every game has shitty or broken hdr so I have to play on pc

[kindred wave]

There's almost no games that I can think of that (albeit sometimes a year + after their initial release) are not objectively the best way to play it.

[unreal niche]

ghostwire tokyo still stutters like shit

i couldnt play elden ring on pc

I couldn't get it to stop stuttering

it was a constant frametime spike every 2 seconds

[kindred wave]

Elden Ring doesn't stutter that badly for me anymore

[weary ridge]

The PS5 Pro is nice but it's too expensive for what it is imo, and it's diskless too

[kindred wave]

and the mods make it way better unlocked framerate, CA removal, Vignette removal

[unreal niche]

like no matter what I was doing in elden ring the stutters would happen at a consistent interval

[weary ridge]

weird, it runs without issues on my PC

[lavish vessel]

[weary ridge]

yea haha

so it should be fixable i think?

[unreal niche]

i fiddled with a million settings but I could never get it to work right

[kindred wave]

I admittedly messed with Elden Ring for a long time, you gotta force vsync and download a program to stop it from pinging your xbox controller (not kidding)

SK helps too

[weary ridge]

SK with gsync worked fine

[kindred wave]

yeah it's not bad i would even call it pretty smooth tbh

it still bizarrely is hard to hit a locked 120

[weary ridge]

I can't notice the traversal stutter or shader compilation even after a fresh GPU driver installation, but I was not monitoring the frametime graph

[kindred wave]

but it's also like I play a game on ps5 and I almost self conciously ignore it's framerate dives

it's like because you can't monitor it or attempt to fix it you notice it less

[weary ridge]

yea it drops to ~90 at the most demanding areas without RT

[weary ridge]

I played through ER at 30fps on the PS5 and it was fine

I needed like 2-3 hours to get used to the low framerate

the performance mode ran like shit or maybe it still does

I see no frametime spikes, if I lock the framerate, on SK's graph btw

[kindred wave]

58 fps locked vsync on and SK is how i enjoyed it the most

i don't think unlocked in this game is very good tbh

[fringe agate]

ngl those volumetrics are peak

[unreal niche]

Some of them do look pretty nice

But other times they look horrendous

Like I remember in the Las Vegas area

When you turn the lights on

At night

They tried doing something similar to red dead 2

With those fog volumes around light sources

But they look horrendous

[fringe agate]

this is the remaster though

[unreal niche]

ah ok i thought that was forbidden west

hopefully its bloom and volumetrics are better looking

[thick salmon]

Looks nicer and know it is now up to par with Forbidden West, but suspect it is gonna suffer from skewed perception of people thinking it already looked close like this and that they might think the game doesn't look much better.

Still, agree with the peepz that said it didn't need a remaster though

But still, for someone like me who never played through the full game, it is nice to have

Issue: Steam detects the game as still running, even when I close the game. Only pressing on "Stop" in the Steam user interface makes this stop.

[waxen ginkgo]

It's an issue with Windows 24H2 version

PSN SDK doesnt close like it's supposed to

All the Sony ports have the issue until it's fixed

I had it in GOW Ragnarok and Ghost of Tsushima

[thick salmon]

Ah yeah, sounds plausible

[kindred berry]

Does it work with SK

[thick salmon]

More I think the question of: does SK work with the game 😂

With all the quit hacky stuff it does

[kindred berry]

If you say so, works fine 95% of the time

Curious if the HDR is less shit this time around

[placid radish]

doesnt look too bad to my eye

the remaster itself is mediocre though

the clouds look like garbage

[unreal niche]

is that screenshot taken with nvidia overlay

nvidia does 32bpc images so they take up an ass load of space with no improvement to image quality

game bar is the same quality but smaller file size

[thick salmon]

They actually upgraded the clouds with the improved volumetric ones from Forbidden West

[unreal niche]

Forbidden west had different clouds in the dlc vs main game iirc

[thick salmon]

Didn't they use the ones from the DLC?

That is what DF said if I remember correctly

[weary ridge]

I doubt it

the DLC clouds are static "real" volumetric clouds

you can fly into them etc

the main game clouds are very simple

[thick salmon]

https://youtu.be/yNkC2BOaboM?si=6R4CxtVKmsWUBQUY&t=582 Yeah, indeed using Nubis. From my knowledge that is just from FW base game. Should be improved compared to the original game vs remaster.

[unreal niche]

idk

[weary ridge]

oh yea it is improved for sure

[thick salmon]

Why does it look like garbage to you? 🙂

[unreal niche]

the sun stands out from the clouds in a way that looks a little odd in that pic

[thick salmon]

But is it really looking weird throughout the game, or just in that pic by coincidence?

[weary ridge]

small spoiler I guess, but the DLC clouds: ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiCYT6Q3xR4||

[placid radish]

my kb doesnt have a prtscrn key so i just use nvidia

[unreal niche]

you can set a custom key

[placid radish]

doesnt work for me

[unreal niche]

or just use the widget in game bar

[placid radish]

idk why

[weary ridge]

2000+ nits sun lol

it does not look that great for sure

[placid radish]

it is capped under 800 nits on my side

that jxr goes over 2000nits ?

[weary ridge]

yup

Forbidden west cloud/sun

[weary ridge]

that lens flare is a crime against gaming

the lens flare in the horizon games is hilariously bad

[placid radish]

they reused a lot of assets from the second game i think

definitely not worth 50 usd

😅

i have the original game so only cost me 10 usd

and it doesnt look better than the original imo

just different assets

and some art direction diff

[thick salmon]

Disagree, they used assets from FW, but also ported the whole HZD game to the newer FW-branch of the Decima engine

Folliage, textures, clouds, water etc. have all been improved.

[placid radish]

maybe

[thick salmon]

FW looks better, but while playing it HZDR has good-looking clouds

[placid radish]

but it doesnt look better imo

with all these improvements i mean

[thick salmon]

#1220402379321770027 message Isn't this maybe your issue here?

[placid radish]

thats totally subjective ofc

[thick salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1ToNkRrxQ

[placid radish]

they are just different assets

[thick salmon]

But also of course of much higher quality

More details in textures

More environmental props

[thick salmon]

But know what you mean; in theory and practice it might be improved, but from your non-comparison perception, it doesn't look/feel improved, right?

[placid radish]

yeah

also here

you cant tell which is remastered tbh

just different assets

[celest nest]

well yeah, it's 10 for an upgrade. if you haven't played the original game, it's obviously worth the price of full game, no? 😄 it is a full game after all

[thick salmon]

Yeah, simply and outcome of doing a remaster too close after release. The leap isn't massive, so less noticable.

[placid radish]

50 for a remastered game is too much for me

[thick salmon]

You're cherry picking here, but if you look, you can see that the vegetation-density is higher in the distance

[placid radish]

thats what i mean

but anyway

[thick salmon]

10 bucks for the upgrade though

[placid radish]

i have and played the original

not a issue for me

10 is fine

[celest nest]

but the original game costing 50 was fine? 😄

[placid radish]

it doesnt

[celest nest]

it did, outside of sales it was always 50

[thick salmon]

https://steamdb.info/app/1151640/ It did cost 50 at release. So same price now, but in remastered form

[placid radish]

the original is 12.49 lowest

[celest nest]

well obviously it was cheaper on a sale

[thick salmon]

We were talking standard price, you can't expect deep sale at release on a remaster, right?

[placid radish]

of course, but the cost of development of the remastered is nowhere near the original right ?

i mean

you cant expect the remastered cost 12.49 for sure

but 50 is still too much

40 is fine

or 30 imo

[thick salmon]

I disagree honestly; 60 was the original PS4 price of the game. When it got released on PC it dropped to 50. 4 years after that it got remastered and now costs 50 new and 10 for the upgrade.

So, remaster is new already below the costs of a brand new game

[placid radish]

not enough imo

but

[thick salmon]

Much lower and the profit is probably very minimal

[placid radish]

everything is imo

[weary ridge]

Nintendo games are cheap to make and they still sell them for $60-70 even 10 years after release

[placid radish]

thats right

and i will not buy them

[weary ridge]

You could get Horizon for 10-20$ or even for free

if you missed it then you have to pay $50 now

it's fair imo

[thick salmon]

But if you wait a bit, it will likely quickly drop 20% of the price

[placid radish]

can you buy the original now ?

[thick salmon]

I have quite some games that are remasters that I want to buy, but find too expensive, so I'll just wait for a sale haha

[weary ridge]

ofc, second hand copies are very very cheap

[placid radish]

i mean

on steam

not the disc version

[thick salmon]

Steam only has the original + remaster bundle

Not just the original

[placid radish]

ok so you cant buy the original on steam anymore ?

[thick salmon]

Only together with the remaster

[placid radish]

hmm

thats pretty sony

the raised the price of the witcher 3 when the next gen update came out

[weary ridge]

you mean CDPR

[placid radish]

should be a sony thing

[thick salmon]

???

[placid radish]

the price remains unchanged on xbox and steam

[weary ridge]

btw steam is down

[thick salmon]

Sony != CDPR

[placid radish]

why cdpr only did that on playstation

[weary ridge]

or something

[thick salmon]

Did what?

[placid radish]

raised the price

[thick salmon]

Not really, just very slow

[thick salmon]

Publisher determines the price, not Sony

Witcher 3 had CDPR as dev and self-published

[placid radish]

makes no sense

why CDPR only do that on playstation

maybe they took money from sony ?

[thick salmon]

Probably because it took more effort to port it to consoles?

[thick salmon]

???

[placid radish]

makes no sense

just a joke

idk

but it is very wired to me

[thick salmon]

Ok, if you meant it seriously... it was weird haha

[placid radish]

CDPR spend more time on the xbox i think

[thick salmon]

Remastered versions of games often get more expensive than the original at sale

[placid radish]

the xboxone x version has a 60fps mode before the next game update came out

[thick salmon]

What makes you think that? The game uses DX12, which Xbox natively supports, but PlayStation doesn't

[placid radish]

you need to run it on the series x to get a full 60 fps though

[thick salmon]

Idk, think your conclusions are a bit misplaced at times

[thick salmon]

DX12 on PC I meant

[placid radish]

both dx12 doesnt mean it can be ported directly

halo infinite underperforms a lot on pc

[thick salmon]

No, but likely significantly easier than porting to a whole new graphics API like they had to for PlayStation

[placid radish]

it is much more demanding than the console version

[thick salmon]

Isn't that also because it literally has better graphics??

[placid radish]

no

at the same or similar graphical setting

that game doesnt even scale down well

you dont get much performance when you lower the setting

but it can be a 343 issue though

[thick salmon]

Source?

[placid radish]

watch digital foundry

[thick salmon]

To my knowledge it does as it can even run well on a Steam Deck, so curious as to your source for these claims

[placid radish]

i dont know if things getting better now

when the game came it out it is clearly more demanding than the console version

[thick salmon]

Have a link? And know that the PC version received lots of post-release updates...

[placid radish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCj2wEi80zA

check the cpu performance section

that game has a 120 fps mode on console though not quite reach that

3600x is similar to console cpu performace

heres the console 120 fps mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZSYRWUJLLU

[thick salmon]

DF says that geometry quality and shadows can improve CPU-performance. Nowhere DF is suggesting that the game doesn't scale down CPU-wise.

So, if DF is the source of your statement, then your statement is based on a misinterpretation.

[placid radish]

you missed the point

the 3600x has frametime spikes

[thick salmon]

They are literally not stating what you said in any way, just that two settings the game says affect CPU-performance, don't.

[kindred berry]

holy offtopic batman

[thick salmon]

Doesn't say anything about scaling down + the game had many updates since, so wouldn't take too many conclusions from a 2+ years old video

[placid radish]

do you mean if you turn those 2 settings down can solve the frametime spike ?

[thick salmon]

Didn't say that + the video never said it + we don't even know if that issue still exists nowadays

[placid radish]

it does exists when it came out

and DF's optimized settings is based on the quality mode

which is 60 fps

and do not have frametime spikes

thats a real thing existed

[thick salmon]

What does that have to do with today if you and I do not know if the issue still exists...

[placid radish]

you said xbox is dx12 and the same as pc

[thick salmon]

No, never said that

[placid radish]

you just play with your words xd

[thick salmon]

I simply tried to say it has the same API after you tried to suggest that porting to PlayStation was easier

[placid radish]

whatever

not ganna keep talking about this

[thick salmon]

What a weird conversation this is.

You are making questionable claims, people proving them wrong, you suddenly go on about a different issue based on a misinterpretation = I am playing with my words? 😂

Have a splendid day

[placid radish]

you mentioned that dx12 thing first

remind you

[thick salmon]

I only said the game was DX12 on PC and that Xbox natively supports that API....

Whatever conclusions you make from that are your own, don't blame me

Never suggested it doesn't need porting

[placid radish]

why you even mentioned the native support thing then ?

[thick salmon]

Because the same graphics API makes porting easier at least. PlayStation didn't use the same API. Tried to explain why the PlayStation version might have been more expensive as you seem to have suggested.

[placid radish]

that is also you assumption

😅

[thick salmon]

Was I wrong?

What did you mean then?

[placid radish]

the ps5 use a same or similar api as ps4 right?

the game was released on all the platform the same time

they already spent that effort on the api thing

[thick salmon]

? 🙂

[placid radish]

why would the next gen update cost more ?

but this is based on your "the same graphics API makes porting easier at least" assumption even

which is questionable

[thick salmon]

Next-gen update was likely re-ported from PC to PS5 and XBox as the codebase and assets got changed majorly for this gigantic update

[placid radish]

and you now that is "likely" right ?

[thick salmon]

You're making the same argument now, so I wasn't wrong then. My assumption was right.

[thick salmon]

Yeah, idk, I assume they didn't do the same work on 3 platforms separately and worked from one base instead...

[placid radish]

so you are making making argument based on your assumption

which is questionable

[thick salmon]

You are making statements based on something your source hasn't even said, so... Don't know what your intention really is in this conversation but I'm outta here.

[placid radish]

fine

we shouldnt talked about these things in this channel really...

[thick salmon]

Performance of the remaster is btw on-par or even slightly better than Forbidden West.

Very nice when the graphical fidelity is essentially the same, so no weird regressions regarding performance it seems so far from my testing

[kindred berry]

benchmark crashes at the end of it sometimes

[thick salmon]

Ran it once, didn't crash for me that time

[proper harbor]

Tldr, how's the HDR?

[unreal niche]

i imagine its probably the same as forbidden west

which was mismatched gamma covered up with contrast boost

they split contrast into highlights and shadows

and both are boosted

so highlights become uncomfortably bright

and shadows don't curve cleanly

[proper harbor]

Bad

[placid radish]

it is better than forbidden west

[unreal niche]

hdr seems to be identical

[placid radish]

i mean performance

not hdr

hdr seems the same i think

[placid radish]

those setting for forbidden west seems to work perfectly

especially the hightlights

-5 gives you more highlight detail

[unreal niche]

Ya

The game already is super high saturation and contrast

The devs just upped it to an uncomfortable degree in hdr

[placid radish]

shadows -10 + 2.2 gamma emulation highlights 0 / highlights -5

[unreal niche]

Make sure to set the processing cut off in 2.2 gamma emulation to match the paper white setting

[placid radish]

yeah i set that to 200

ops, i messed up the camera angel when i took screenshots

same results anyway

[unreal niche]

photo mode

[placid radish]

i did take the 2 later screenshots with photo mode

[sharp totem]

Oh wow. So much writing last night. Haha. I remember this game HDR was a mess because it blew up all the highlight so easily. Although was one of my fist HDR experiences and did not know much of what was going on. Is it kind of fixed for the remaster?

[placid radish]

its the same as forbidden west

they try to cover up the gamma mismatch by cranking up the contrast

they original first game doesnt have gamma mismatch i suppose, but it goes all the way up to 10000nits and blows up all the highlights

[sharp totem]

Yes! This was it. Now I remember.

[placid radish]

wtf he recommend highlights 10

[unreal niche]

His recommendations are always insane

[placid radish]

highlights seems to also control the saturation

both with shadows -10 + 2.2 gamma emulation highlights 10/-5

here is how highlights 10 looks

zero detail

blows up more highlight detail than peak brightness set to 1500 with hightlights -5 on my lg c2

😅

[kindred berry]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2561580/view/4463723296443072883?l=english

[thick salmon]

Nice to see that fixed for you 🙂

[unreal niche]

Original / Remaster

[kindred berry]

any recommended hdr settings / fixes yet?

[lavish vessel]

It's exactly the same settings / calibration as Forbidden West
#1212434739500154921 message

[kindred berry]

so -5 highlights, shadows -3

[lavish vessel]

I think the game is supposed to be viewed at G2.4 like TLoU even in SDR, so I would leave shadows alone, highlights -5 and brightness adjusted to your liking

Unless you don't like the deep contrast in shadows with G2.4

[kindred berry]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2561580/view/4480612432780198115?l=english

[wooden oracle]

https://youtu.be/Cs922IfcEc8?t=66

(volume warning)

the more frozen wilds I play the more I'm convinced they barely tested it

[lavish vessel]

Haphazard guess that disabling DLSS fixes it

[thick salmon]

Likely just an edge-case audio streaming bug...

Does the expansion have so many issues then?

[lavish vessel]

Wait i thought it's referring to the firefly artifacts near the bottom of the screen

I've turned the audio off, lol

[thick salmon]

Ow, I think Nukem meant the audio, but those fireflies are likely upscaling artifacts yeah

Both are legitimate issues that could hopefully be solved

[lavish vessel]

I mean you are probably right

I just saw volume warning and was like, "nope, sound off"

I have tinnitus already, so need to be careful

[wooden oracle]

there's 4 separate issues in that video lol

the broken audio, the fireflies, aloy's armor spazzing out, volumetric fog is overbearing and nearly obscures everything

fog also disappears when you enter cutscenes with that npc

[lavish vessel]

volumetric fog is overbearing and nearly obscures everything
Tbh I think this is just Guerrilla art direction

[thick salmon]

Yeah, Aloy's cloth physics bug out when walking when at higher FPS, noticed that both in Forbidden West as well as Remastered.

[kindred berry]

these were the recommended right

[lavish vessel]

Yeah

Brightness up to taste

[kindred berry]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2561580/view/6564653885911203911?l=english

[kindred berry]

stupid forced stop in steam still required 🙄

[kindred berry]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2561580/view/4480613701830836495?l=english

i was wondering where auto pickup went

[undone flicker]

so

is the upgrade worth the 10 bucks in your opinion?

I actually never finished this game coz idk

[sonic pawn]

Yes, but I liked the based game. It looks much better than what I remember

[lime halo]

makes HZD look like forbidden west, so

i'd say oso

if you want to play it again at some point

[sonic pawn]

Precisely

[ionic igloo]

No it doesn't, not even close. It's more like an inbetween

[quick bobcat]

yeah id mostly describe it as one of those remasters that makes the game look how you remember it - booting up standard HZD even tho it isnt that hold does look quite a bit worse than it does in my memories, probably mostly bc of how big the jump to HFW was and thats the more recent experience/memories

HZD defs doesnt look like HFW, but theyve closed the gap enough that it basically looks like how i remember HZD looking haha

[sonic pawn]

Interesting. To me they look very close. And I played horizon FW a lot on both pc and ps5.

[unreal niche]

ya i thought they looked pretty close

the vistas are less impressive though

and no flying

[sonic pawn]

https://youtu.be/zXygwunjzvs?si=U_TDvJopBt7oaq3T

When out side by side it’s barely indistinguishable

If it weren’t for the lack glider and flying I wouldn’t be able to tell which one is which

[lime halo]

different environments, but trees look similar enough

i honestly think they look really fucking similar and the differences come down to environment

[sonic pawn]

Yeah it’s very difficult to even know which one is which

[quick bobcat]

I might have understated the level of improvement towards HFW standard with my remaster how your memory works comment, it's defs more than a lot of remasters for sure

I think it's very situational, there are some things like natural environment that are vegetation heavy where a screenshot could basically be from either game

But there's other scenes where the differences are quite obvious

Based on what I've read from modders and such it really is kind of a franken version of the engine - it hasn't been moved to the HFW one but does have a bunch of HFW stuff bolted onto the HZD version of the engine

So I assume it's very much a case of whatever was easiest to back port and most visually impactful for prioritised

[wooden oracle]

if HZD is version 1.0 and HFW is version 2.0

HZDR is version 1.3 or 1.4

I agree that terrain/environments are at parity between the two. HZDR's facial animations are off-putting at best. audio seems to be broken or unbalanced in general

I'm not sure it's worthy of that Remastered title with all the bugs I've encountered

[rose sail]

my main thought is that Nixxes wants to get into game development and this is their testing ground
they have been doing "the best ports" (they are still lacking imho) and have gotten fame through that, so they want even more

[wooden oracle]

my fear is that sony will push nixxes too hard

afaik they've mostly abandoned HFW on PC by now - even with outstanding issues

[rose sail]

that too

they are already doing it

[lime halo]

i do wish that ports were not a total afterthought

nixxes is certainly better then the majority but they could still use more then just,

'we gave you the basic features of titles on PC'

does HFW have issues on PC?

haven't bought it yet

[sonic pawn]

It’s in great condition imo

[wooden oracle]

as of today, not many. 90% of the stutters and performance issues were addressed in patches

burning shores perf can be iffy

mouse controls can be iffy

aloy's armor pieces spaz out the entire game which I find unacceptable

occasional graphical flickering, but nothing serious

[lime halo]

that's not too bad

[quick bobcat]

PC gaming is in a bit of a weird spot at the moment 😕

on the one hand we are getting sony titles on PC (unimaginable a few years ago) and the ports are decent, we have more and more titles using next gen tech like path tracing in ways that are truly transformative and so much further ahead of console than PC used to be, DLSS is basically magic, reflex is so impactful to latency, steam and UE have fueled an explosion in indies thats truly great, more and more peeps are choosing this as their primary platform, its basically a huge success story

exceeeeept for one major issue - very specifically #stutterstruggle shader comp stutter - but more broadly the technical state of the average AAA game these days

there is so much stuff to be excited about that the ongoing annoyances/sometimes literal unplayableness of games at launch and many publishers choosing to basically never fix them is such a bloody bummer :/

[sonic pawn]

It’s not bad at all. The game is running very well now.

[celest nest]

i feel like shader compilation stutter hasn’t been a problem for a while now? the issue got loud enough that it seems basically everyone learned what needs to be done

and the games that are a mess at launch on pc are as much of a mess on consoles, except 30fps which can hide some issues. but that doesn’t mean it’s a pc specific problem, you can cap the framerate on pc and have an equally terrible 30fps experience as you’d have on consoles (with less blur i guess)

[quick bobcat]

really? might just be dependent on what games one plays i reckon, i feel like its christmas when i come across a AAA game that doesnt have stutter struggle. it seems like whatever epic is doing to address it in UE is either not being used equally well by devs, or is just in builds so new that it hasnt made it into retail games yet. i feel like the huge publicity focus on eliminating shader comp stutter has had a major positive effect, but (anecdotally mind you - have not bothered to actually look at the data for this) it seems to me that devs with in-house engines have been way more successful and responsive to this than most of the UE shops

[quick bobcat]

oh dw im well aware, and overall still glad to be on PC bc at least theres a much greater ability to fix stuff yourself/thru the great work of others. borked HDR? RenoDX. fucked frame pacing/broken fullscreen/bad reflex implementation/a thousand and one other things? SpecialK. bad upscaling? drop in latest DLSS dll. and so on and so forth. but every now and then theres the lazy part of me thats feeling especially frustrated by some specific game thats so broken that it cant be fixed by anyone but the dev on PC, and it makes me go, if ima play it in a shit state anyway, why dont i at least do it on a way cheaper machine that i have to put zero effort into maintaining 😅

then i start my sixth playthru of cyberpunk with all the path tracing cranked up and those silly thoughts instantly disappear ofc - its like PC is several gens ahead of console at this point, which hasnt always been the case, or at least the technological difference has not always been as meaningful or impactful as it is atm

[celest nest]

i'm talking about shader compilation stutter specifically - the stutter prevalent in games like silent hill 2 isn't related to shaders, it's just unreal engine being rather bad[ly used]

[celest nest]

if ima play it in a shit state anyway, why dont i at least do it on a way cheaper machine that i have to put zero effort into maintaining
because the shit state on pc is way better than on consoles anyway 😛

i generally agree with you, except that the bad things you mention aren't really PC specific, so i'd say that PC gaming is pretty much in the best spot it's ever been

[kindred berry]

At least it doesn't have shader comp stutter

[celest nest]

yeah shader comp stutter is the one rare thing that is pc specific

[wooden oracle]

horizon still has a bit of compilation stutter but you probably won't notice it without checking a frametime graph

[steel phoenix]

UE games are more suffering from traversal stutter at this point

and while i appreciate how candid Croteam is, they basically said something to the effect of "it's just how it is" on the steam forums for the game and won't fix it in Talos 2. they made it sound as if it is unfixable, which i know isn't true. great game regardless, and i know their team is small, but it is disappointing

[steel phoenix]

I'm playing it now finally and HZD was already one of my favourite games, and now playing this I'm coming to the realization that HZD really is THAT much better than HFW in terms of the story and pacing and sense of discovery. The remaster eliminates 80% of the issues HFW addressed which lets the story and characters shine all the brighter, the crowd density and new mo-cap work is worth the price alone and sells the world and people in it so much better.

I was kinda in the "HFW is still almost as good in spite of not having the mystery to unveil anymore" but HZD is just so well paced at least early on. they keep dropping the breadcrumbs at the right time. forgot how great it is, i haven't played it since HFW came out.

just wish we had the glider and sunwing in hzd, lol

[quick bobcat]

couldnt agree more mate - the only reason ive not committed to a full replay of the HZD remaster is because (compared to non-open world games) its a big commitment, i have so little time, and such a huge backlog. but i am tempted, because the gradual unveiling of the story, who aloy actually is, what happened to the world, was done so magnificiently and some things were genuinely such a shock/twist (well-earned) that I got goose bumps. im just worried that investing the time required in another playthru wont be worth it from that perspective, because i already know all the plot stuff that hit me so hard with the first game? so keen to hear how youre finding it with the play actually, pls let us know ^^

and yes i forgot to add, we seem to be in the minority bc most peeps seemed to LOOOOVE the BIGGER AND MOAR MOAR MOAR stuff approach of HFW, but ive also long believed that HZD is a vastly superior game (and i liked HFW just fine) and have not come across any arguments or other peeps' contrary opinions that have convinced me otherwise

[steel phoenix]

I've played it through like 4 times and it's still great every time imo.

I think HFW has better gameplay and really how can it top HZD in terms of story... It's impossible. So I cut it some slack on that front. But yeah HZD will always be the peak of the franchise unless they have something mind blowing in store for HZD 3

[sonic pawn]

Yeah the sense of discovery in HZD was amazing. Too bad we can’t forget the game for a second play through. That being said, I think HFW is better on every other aspect and the side quests all feel way more meaningful and cohesive with the main story. I remember doing the side quest of plainsong and how you can heal the machines there and they up singing… it all felt beautiful and very well connected with the overarching story of saving the planet.

[celest nest]

i loved how the singing machines sounded, had the vibe of lorn's stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2xvePQ3ejo

[quick bobcat]

yeah i almost wish i could wipe both games from my memory and give guerilla a chance to remake HZD and HFW into one game

i reeeally didnt care for the main plot in HFW, and the way aloy's chosen one status was turned up to like, twenty bazillion

whereas her discovering who she is and us discovering what happened to the world in the first game was soo compelling

whereas the side quests in the second game were generally very strong, and super weak in the first game

i really just wanna reexperience the world, the discovery, the plot, the history from game one

with some of the mechanics and primarily changes to side quest approach from game two

[sonic pawn]

I think a lot of it has to do with how unique the concept of horizon was when it first came out. A clone living in a future world that lives in tribes, fighting dinosaur machines with a bow and an arrow. What I liked most about the second game were all the plot twits and learning that humans survived and were immortals living in another world

[weary ridge]

A fellow Lorn lover? ❤️

Lorn is my absolute favorite electronic musician

😄

[celest nest]

always ends up my top artist on spotify wrapped, each year without fail 😄

[steel phoenix]

honestly with the improved conversation mocaps these sidequests aren't as dull in remaster

[quick bobcat]

fair enough... im not even making fast enough progress in indy, pls dont convince me to start playing older games 😭

[wary ridge]

Hey! Anyone perhaps found a sloution for the dlss framegen stutter in H:FW when you force vsync from nvcp?

The sutter is a very consistant -- about once sutter per second - very obvious when panning the camera. Even Alex from Digital Foundry mentioned it in his overview video of the PC port (https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=778).

Does not happen when the framerate is unlocked, but then I get like 190fps... on my 120Hz screen. I want to stay in the vrr window, so this is no bueno.

Kal said that every Nixxes port that features dlss framgen (and thusly nvidia streamline) they've botched the streamline/reflex implementation and the result (amongst other issues) is the one I described.

I don't own any other Nixxes port with dlss framegen implemented, so can't confirm.

So why am I asking? Well, literally every other game with dlss framegen works flawlessly when you force vsync via nvcp -- reflex caps it to 116Hz (in my case) and you get stupid good framepacing.

[fringe agate]

With fsr3 fg I had to enable vsync ingame to get proper framepacing.

[placid radish]

it is

all Nixxes ports have broken reflex

but if you get 190 fps with FG, i think you can already maxed your 120hz screen without it

[wary ridge]

I thought perhaps someone found a way how to swap/modify the game's streamline implementation. I guess it really is only up to the devs... and they, of course, don't care at all...

[wary ridge]

As for this point... "Why would I want to use framegen when I can probably get 116 fps without it anyway?" Two reasons:

1.) In Forbidden West, there is a very noticable judder happening when panning the camera in scenes with a lot of npcs (towns) when you're above 90 fps. At least on my 5800X3D. It's CPU related. Framegen goes around that problem.

2.) The new dlss 4 transformer model for framegen has a very very nice new piece of functionalty that noone has noticed: when framegening and while you force on vsync like I described, your GPU will render only as many frames as needed to get exactly half of your refresh rate. This lowers GPU (and thus power) utilisation SIGNIFICANTLY. I'm currently playing Diablo4 at 4K balanced on max settings with 25% GPU utilisation and hovering at 140W load... constant. That's stupidly impresive and efficient.

[celest nest]

your GPU will render only as many frames as needed to get exactly half of your refresh rate
wasn't it doing that before as well?

[wary ridge]

I'm very pleased to say that it absolutely did not! Try it for yourself. It was rendering how much it could till hitting power limit or fps limit. Just try swapping dlls in the same game and watch your wattage readout. It's mind-boggling that it did not function that way. I immediately noticed that my gpu fans were virtually quiet the moment I enabled the transformer model. Confirmed in Alan Wake 2, Cyberpunk, Starfield, DA Veilguard and Diablo 4, from my limited testing.

[celest nest]

well i have not ever checked this but it doesn't sound right. they'd just be throwing real frames away for no reason then
@wooden oracle?

i mean with vsync enabled

[wooden oracle]

smokey you're seeing the byproducts of a more efficient model

[wary ridge]

Yeah... It did exactly that -- the game would render as many "real" frames as it could and then only display exactly as many as half your refresh rate. It's absolutely stupid, but it was like that.

[wooden oracle]

it is not a new feature

fg didn't always scale to 2X so it wouldn't always be half your frames

[wary ridge]

Yeah, I know. But I was routinely setting it up in DLSS performance mode (1080p --> 4K) and it would hit above 400W. That's in Cyberpunk. Now, it's like 220 max. That's a whole lot more than 15% more frames they advertise the new fg model would rpoduce.

I won't die on this hill as I'm aware you people know way more about the inner workings of this then I, but these are my observations. Actually, this was my biggest complaint about framegen since I started using it.

Well that and the shitty implementation of it by Nixxes...

[wooden oracle]

I'd suggest capturing your monitor with a high framerate camera (e.g. a modern phone) using both versions of the fg dll

then compare individual frames

[wary ridge]

Oof. No bueno -- have an old nexus phone 😕

Wouldn't know how to do it anyway.

Btw. thank you for having a constructive conversation about this. You people are a godsend. One can feel at least a bit heared here! ❤️

Btw. if someone is interested how I'm running the new dlss dlls in Daiblo 4 (an online game with heavy anti-cheat), it's via this script thats anti-cheat-proof, as it uses the driver built-in override: https://gist.github.com/emoose/11271bbb3b42fb3b1b0e1c83eef47c05

Yes, this does exactly what nvidia promised the nv app overrides will do. Emoose updated it recently, so it functions with the new dlls. Perhaps you remember I aksed recently about it. Now it works.

[placid radish]

it has the same animation error issue as jedi survivor

when you cap the game with rtss and get a flat frametime graph at like 120 fps

you will get judder

you can verify that by turning on the flip indicator with nvidia profile inspector

setting it to flip fps

you will see white dots all over the place

something is wrong with capping HFW's fps

vsync off will make it even worse

[tulip canopy]

special k reflex override with end of frame I guess

[placid radish]

this is how it should work properly

like at the white dots position

[placid radish]

it does, but it is not smooth even without FG, unless you cap your framerate much lower than your current framerate

you can get a 100% smooth experience with traditional vsync though

[wary ridge]

Unfortunately no because SK can't handle Nixxes streamline implementation. In other words, the moment you start up the game with SK injected, you won't be able to get framegen to work anymore.

[placid radish]

thats also why DF didnt find out that issue without FG i think

they tend to test the frametime with traditional vsync

[tulip canopy]

rip

[sonic pawn]

Funny thing I complained about it many months ago. Same issue you’re facing. Large cities and huge fps drops. So frame gen would smooth out those scenes. The fix I found was to use lossless scaling frame gen. It fixed the issue for me. But now when I tested it recently, the issue was gone for me and now I can use regular frame gen. However I also update my frame gen files to the latest dlss4 files. I believe its version 3.10.1. See if that works for you.

[sonic pawn]

Here’s some
Of my testing with it at the time but that issue is gone last time I tested it

[wary ridge]

Tried again. Including with todays new drivers and the latest dlss and dlssg dlls -- the problem persists. It's on Nixxes. They botched the reflex implementation and only they can fix it.

[bitter condor]

You guys remember how Horizon FW HDR was broken at launch? The paper white setting limited peak brightness? Spider-Man 2 just released today and Nixxes repeated the mistake

[lavish vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/gordon-ramsay-raw-its-fucking-raw-gordon-ramsay-raw-raw-fish-gif-23700556

[lavish vessel]

Made a SM2 thread https://discord.com/channels/1161035767917850784/1334604966546898966

[bitter condor]

Thanks!

[sonic pawn]

Thanks for this

[sonic pawn]

Could record your screen in slow motion to show what you’re seeing?

[wary ridge]

Jesus f, does anyone have a contact with someone who works at Nixxes? I mean, they wouldn't gimp their games on purpose like that or? Someone TELL THEM 😄

[placid radish]

The previous 2 spiderman games also have broken hdr

they look quite different from the ps5 version

[wary ridge]

Update:
After a ton of digging, I randomly stumbled upon the solution on reddit. The effin' game has hidden settings in the registry of all places (like who does that these days?). Anyway, the solution to framegen stutter is to disable a hidden mouse smoothing setting here:

\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Guerrilla Games\Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition\Input\EnableMouseSmoothing "0"

Also, while here, go to:
\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Guerrilla Games\Horizon Forbidden West Complete Edition\Graphics\Sharpness "0"

... to disable te always on sharpening that's enabled even when you set it ot "0" in the menus.

You're welcome 😄

edit: oh yeah, you'll need to double your mouse sensitivity in-game after disabling mouse smooting. Seems it's a sophisticated smoothing that uses two samples to generate one...

Interestingly enough, I remember that Pumbo himself solved framegen stutter in Alan Wake 2 by ADDING mouse smoothing. Man, these things are... confusing at times.

[thick salmon]

Honestly, think this solution is just partially hiding the severity of any possible issue.

You see now too with the Spider-Man 2 port many people complaining that mouse smoothing is supposedly broken, while Alex from DF says the game has horrible frame time spikes that might be caused by DirectStorage GPU decompression... People often confuse causes of frame time stutters for broken mouse smoothing.

[wary ridge]

One thing is for certain: for me at least, disabling msmoothing this way gets rid of that onece-per-second rhytmic stutter when panning the camera. I'm well aware that only the devs are able to remedy the problem really, but, well... I have a feeling we'll get to the heat death of the universe earlier than that, so I'll take what I can get!

[thick salmon]

Have you looked at frame time graphs through RTSS or something to also confirm this to be really true?

[wary ridge]

Frametime graphs from any software are all very effed now when reading frametimes while dlss framegen is on because nvidia modified something. The games are smooth. The readout is not. Here: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/nvidia-572-16-driver.455207/page-17#post-6304297

So, no, can't confirm this way.

I just look at the screen when panning the camera. Night-and-day better than before. Simple as that.

[thick salmon]

Hard then to also rule out confirmation bias, but I hope you are right then. Might be worth reporting this through official Nixxes support.

[wary ridge]

Oh no no, that stutter was like stupidly unmistakingly very much so obvious. It was literally half-a second stutter (complete with camera skip) every 1 second. The whole time. No confirmation bias required in this case 😄

Just to reiterate: that happened only when fps limiting the game, be it vias nvcpl or forced vsync. That was the original problem I had.

[thick salmon]

Ah, weird, but regarding Vsync, many games sadly have a broken Vsync integration.

[thick salmon]

But with that certainty, it might really be worth it to report this issue officially

[wary ridge]

It's widely known by now, many times reported. AND it spans literally all Nixxes ports since they started integrating dlss framegen. No, they don't listen. If someone else has some enthusiasm left, be my guest 🙂

[thick salmon]

Ok, I suspect many people leave it to others to report issues like these so that they almost never get actually reported, but hey, up to you 🙂

[wooden oracle]

has anyone tested an updated sl.dlss_g.dll and an updated nvngx_dlssg.dll?

[wary ridge]

Yes! I updated all streamline files the game uses (+ sl.pcl.dll, actually needed for dlss framegen to work) and I get 180fps at 4KdlssQ 180fps --> 205fps! So yeah, do-it yourself dlss and streamline file-switcheroo is indeed the name of the game.

[tulip canopy]

mouse smoothing isn't the worst thing ever imo

[thick salmon]

Also the vanilla game has the exact same issue?

So, when without any modifications, without Special K etc.?

[sonic pawn]

This didn’t work for me, unfortunately

For me what worked was to cap the fps at 60, which resolved the crazy frame time spikes and then use lossless scaling frame gen on top of it.

[thick salmon]

Good to know that it doesn't work for everyone

[wooden oracle]

frame pacing in hfw is comically broken

[placid radish]

did you cap the fps externally ?

HFW dont like fps cap

[wooden oracle]

yeah. I ran an experiment with nvidia's control panel vsync and frame gen

[short vigil]

Hi guys. Hum, I understood that HDR sliders were messed up at launch, a fix was release by the community, then the game was patch

But the HDR still won't work properly for me. It's all washed out. I saw a roundabout were you switch to windowed mode and back to full screen. Worked one time only, now I don't know what to do 🤨

Plus it freeze if I want to alt-tab

Any idea ?

[grand yacht]

Run the game with SpecialK it ought to fix your alt+tab issues.

[short vigil]

I guess I could give it a try 🤔

[sharp totem]

Quick question. Well... Maybe two. Haha. Is the remastered worth it? Also... Is HDR fixed in it in comparison to the clipping to oblivion that happened in the original?