▫️Cyberpunk 2077

[mystic shadow]

It looks like the maxstreamingdistance line was removed in a recent ultra+ update

if you open the 3.0 file, it is there...

but not in the most recent version

It was removed in 3.3.1

Maybe @whole girder removed it due to that issue?

[mystic shadow]

Feel free to ignore me if i'm asking way too many questions btw

should we not select NRD with control? We need to do it with the ini? I am not sure what this means?

[gilded summit]

The CET part of Ultra Plus still has this line in commonfixes.lua : SetOption( category, "MaxStreamingDistance", "8000.0" ) @whole girder the ini files don't have it anymore @mystic shadow , Also NRD is a denoiser, you don't really need it if you run Ray Reconstruction. But it can make the lighting look better, but it also destroys some depth in the textures. There is a toggle in the CET mod for ultra plus, so try it I would say, but no NRD and RR will make the game incredibly noisy

[mystic shadow]

Can i safely turn off RR from the Ultra+ CET menu and turn on DNR instead? The quote above makes it seem like that causes issues?

#1186114072027074651 message

I probably misunderstood

I assume you don't want to use both together

[whole girder]

I was thinking about removing this Reshade, I don't use it anymore 🤔

interesting!

only if you have 16 gigabiggies of vram

I tested removing the streaming limitation and it made no difference.

I couldn't reproduce it

also the ads in the screenshots people showed me were 2km to 3km away. not 8+km ??

something else is going on

[whole girder]

no it's just moved the Ultra Control

[mystic shadow]

Thx!

And to confirm. What did you mean by this comment? #1186114072027074651 message

I can't switch from RR to NRD via the CET control?

[mystic shadow]

I actually do ha

[whole girder]

if anyone is able to repro the problem please let me know. from what I can see

• it only happens from Vs H10 apartment window
• disabling streaming distance limit doesn't fix it
• disabling streaming height limit doesn't fix it
• there used to be mod that fixes Vs window draw distance but it's hidden now so I can't test that

[whole girder]

yaye 😊

I'll ask sosuine wtf

[indigo summit]

Indeed, the biggest problem with ReSTIR and the one people complain about is ghosting, and yeah it’s it’s that disocclusion noise as Nvidia pointed out in the 2.1 update. So maybe there’s an angle where there’s a preset quality that’s entirely focused on improving path tracing under motion vs base detail

Like a Motion preset

It’s a tough one, without enough base detail distant npcs are just scattered error to try and denoise into a temporally coherent image but without enough spatial samples their movement will just break whatever the base converged detail first managed to construct

The other one that could help is the ReGIR for DI

As world space data would hopefully avoid some of the issues that screen space data has

You’d loose a bit of quality apparently as the screen space data is more accurate but it’d be hopefully more stable

[mystic shadow]

Could have been an older version of ultra+

maybe something else was causing it

apparently dlss sharpness 0.5 is neutral

and 0 is more blurry

So disable this if I'm using the relight.xl file from gits 3.x?

[whole girder]

yep!

nice lighting

[whole girder]

one solution would be to trace through the edge of meshes (as I'd their edge weren't there). that way the samples would already be in the reservoir when MC moves

some spatial samples from everywhere does still make sense though

[mystic shadow]

a lot of the mods on the "recommended mods" list appear not to work with patch 2.12 or 2.12a unfortunately

it's hard to tell

by the comments alone

it looks really good 🙂

[mystic shadow]

When I close and re-open the game, it looks like it auto switches to RR isntead of NRD. Is this by design?

[whole girder]

yes i'm hearing from people even some LUTs and ENVs are broken

stuff that shouldn't be broken

i'm still running 2.12

CDPR should have released a single *optional file for this

[mystic shadow]

i'm still on 2.12 as well

dlss sharpening appears to change colors a bit

and raises brightness

similar to CAS sharpening

so not surprising

is 0 on the slider "off" or is 0.5 "off?"

[whole girder]

DLSS can also goes to -1.0 too 😊, and can be used as an unsharp mask

CPs engine prevents it, unfortunately

in Hogwarts I use DLSS -1.0 to remove temporal jitter, the UEs sharpening to compensate

it looks sooo good

I wonder if there's some way to do it in CP

[mystic shadow]

in cp77 is 0 "neutral"

someone here said 0.5 was off but i'm not sure it is

[whole girder]

based on the DLSS spec 0 is neutral. -1 is unsharp 1 is max sharp

[mystic shadow]

yea that checks out

oh is it normal to have it switch back to ray reconstruction upon each game restart

even if i switched it to NRD

[gilded summit]

vanilla has both RR + NRD enabled by default, you cant use RR if you don't run DLSS, NRD takes about 3 to 5% performance (FPS), so if you like how it looks with just RR, i would go with NRD off.

in other words if you run native res, NRD needs to be enabled unless you don't mind a SUPER noisy image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgaNOOU8Y7Y

[mystic shadow]

i'm using dlss quality

but the control tooltips says to use either one or the other?

[gilded summit]

Its personal preference i guess, I have explained the up/downsides. It is possible to run without any denoisers too. I don't think the Ray reconstruction togle works in the control app, the NRD togle does work though

[mystic shadow]

I am running Ray Reconstruction off, but NRD on

that's what a few people recommended

But whenever i quit and re-launch the game, it resets back to ray reconstruction with nrd unchecked

[gilded summit]

yeh i have similar experience even when having it set to native, when i go back in game, it says "dlls/auto" and RR is enabled i think. Its just part of the engine that it forces at least one or sometimes both of these denoisers to be enabled

[mystic shadow]

That's ok I'll just keep fixing it

[gilded summit]

• go back in game = restart

[mystic shadow]

It looks really good

[gilded summit]

nrd was the denoiser the game shipped with when pathtracing came out

rr came later

[mystic shadow]

Yea

Makes sense

[gilded summit]

rr resolves noise faster though

[mystic shadow]

I just keep turning RR off and NRD on each time i open the game

[gilded summit]

i hate what NRD does to shadows, but i still run them both enabled while playing

because without NRD lighting can feel off

in some situations

[mystic shadow]

What does it do to shadows

[gilded summit]

both have very distinct issues

RR gives vasaline

NRD doesn't seem to take lightmap textures into account

idk the proper nomenclature

the texture below normal maps

just go to a beach at sundown

and watch what NRD does to the waves in the sand

make sure to keep your camera moving, because lighting information get "re used" i think

like when you render an image with ray tracing, it remembers the bounces/resolved image

in that vid you can also tell how fine shadows on grass just seem to dissapear

[mystic shadow]

Interesting thanks for explaining

If I'm using the gits 3.x relight xl files only, do i need the relight ini

[gilded summit]

isnt this explained on ultra+ main page?

[mystic shadow]

It doesn't mention the ini file but I'm not sure why

It's named relight.ini

So figured I'd check

[gilded summit]

sammi thinks its not needed i think it is needed

she doesnt notice a difference, but i did some testing 2 month ago, and i could tell the difference quite easily

the range of the light coming of those fast travel points, gets way wider with that ini present

[mystic shadow]

Thanks that is why i asked 🙂

[gilded summit]

its like a 100% increase

[mystic shadow]

I will grab it

Do i need the other two ini files? Or are those only for the .archive

[gilded summit]

idk but i can read it for you if you really insist 😄

and then copy paste it here

lol

[mystic shadow]

Read what?

[gilded summit]

the mods info page 😄

[mystic shadow]

I read that multiple times..

[gilded summit]

i mean i got all this info from their respective pages

everyone needs to read it at least once, to uderstand it

it just is a lot to take in

all the variables etc

[mystic shadow]

I know. I read it all ha

[gilded summit]

sorry man but its up to you, and the more you read the more you understand

idm specific questions, but i think a lot of your questions can be awnsered by reading the main pages

[mystic shadow]

It doesn't explain what is in each xl files or which ini is needed for it. I'm sure. I read the page like 6 times

But no problem. I probably just need the relight.ini

[gilded summit]

relight.ini = for range extending on lighting

ive told you twice already, if not more 😉

over the last few days though

i know its a lot to take in, so its ok, just part of it i guess

[mystic shadow]

I understand what relight.ini does. That part is clear

I asked you about the other ini files. You said you didn't know. So no problem.

[gilded summit]

o lol

my bad

yeh idk exactly what those do

[mystic shadow]

All good 🙂

[gilded summit]

reflection, and conditioner can be kept, but i think ultra plus already does it, but it doesnt hurt to keep em, in case you uninstall ultra and forget about it

ultra gets priority

[mystic shadow]

that's the only thing in the ini lol

but ultraplus already has that set to false. Or it is a checkbox in the CET UI that you can toggle i forget.

so i'm not sure why the ini would affect anything

[gilded summit]

it used to be a toggle in the control app indeed, idk if its still there

also if you use that AD distant mod from soucine, you might want to edit the control apps line still, i can reproduce the issue that others reported too

Cyberpunk 2077\bin\x64\plugins\cyber_engine_tweaks\mods\UltraPlus

commonfixes.lua

this one is edited

removed the maxstreamingdistance

[mystic shadow]

Weird, @whole girder was saying she couldn't reproduce that issue

I think a @craggy vessel also said he cannot reproduce that issue

[mystic shadow]

Thx I'll just do that just in case i guess

Why did ultra+ lower the streaming distance?

[mystic shadow]

@gilded summit RIS is still an option in ultra menu. So i don't think that relight ini file is needed?

[craggy vessel]

We dont use that mod, i use another

And 0 isuues

[mystic shadow]

Which mod? I may switch to it if it has less issues with Ultra+

[craggy vessel]

Im not at home now :c

I dont remember the name

[mystic shadow]

No rush :). Do you mind looking it up later today maybe?

when you're home

[craggy vessel]

Yep

[mystic shadow]

Thanks!

[craggy vessel]

In spain are the 14:14 i was at home at 20:30 maybe

Im gonna be *

Hahaha

[mystic shadow]

I have been to Spain once 10 years ago. The food was delicious 🙂

[craggy vessel]

Where?

[mystic shadow]

Barcelona and Sevilla (apologies for spelling)

Seville*?

[craggy vessel]

Sevilla

And not it Madrid :c

[mystic shadow]

I never made it to Madrid 😦

but I would like to go back to Spain eventually

It was a lot of fun

[mystic shadow]

Anyone know how to get that red-mod conflict checker thing working with a virtual MO2 install?

can't get it to work

[whole girder]

here's a fairly big release

• Renamed Fast.ini -> Performance... Normal -> Balanced... High -> Quality... Insane -> Cinematic - please delete the old file
• Hopefully fixed RT+PT (still testing) - thank you to KrushSG for reporting
• Cinematic is now FAR more focused on quality so will many FPS slower (but is still very playable on high cards)
• Changed PT Turbo to dynamically reduce spatial samples outdoors rather than disabling, depending on which quality mode you're in. This still saves several FPS but does not reduce quality as much
• Changed Balanced to 2 spatial samples, 14 initial samples to improve disocclusion
• Increased SHaRC SceneScale from 50 to 200 to reduce constantly changing scend brightness, and hopefully reduce noise in dark areas (the value of 50 is so dark it kind of defeats the purpose of SHaRC)
• Increased skin subsurface translucency by 25%. That's about as far as it can be taken without PT artifacts
• Fixed a bug where Rain Fix changes were not applying immediately
• Fixed a bug where PT Turbo was not applying immediately
• *Slightly sharpened sun shadows
• *Increased Oodle worker threads from 2 to 4 for 8GB and higher video cards

huggeee thank you to @craggy vessel, we worked on this one together

what's the best E3 lighting mod(s) ?

[gilded summit]

try it for yourself, for me stuff disapears at close range, while being visible at long range

[whole girder]

it's a bug with sosuine's mod

some people can reproduce, others can't. i've uninstalled it for now

this is the vanilla view distance, all my ads are missing

i'd recommend Always Best Quality for now

[mystic shadow]

Agreed

[mystic shadow]

Is the insane/cinematic preset realistic with 16gb vram? I feel like it might be responsible for crashing my game when loading a save

[south verge]

Depends on the amount of frames your comfortable with but yes, it (4080 Super) can run it just fine . Definitely a better experience with a 4090 I would assume.

[mystic shadow]

interesting. not sure what's causing my game to crash when loading the save. It doesn't always happen.

but happens often

i figured it was a vram issue

any ideas? if not i'll just try wiping it and re-doing the mod install

[gilded summit]

I doubt you'd crash loading up a save running out of vram, I need to do some trimming because my 4090 is actually running out, but it just leads to horrible frame spikes

[mystic shadow]

hmm idk then i'm gonna try wiping and re-doin geverything

[olive ether]

Ultra plus crashes when loading saves some times

#1186114072027074651 message

[whole girder]

yes it should be fine. nope, crashing whole loading is a new feature of 2.12+ 😂

[whole girder]

mm, 2.11 doesn't do it. I've asked psiberx if they know what's up

v3.4 is actually the most stable yet, CP 2.12+ is very easy to crash

but this is also why I don't just put everything into Ultra Control and not even need an ini. CP can't handle the commands

[neat sky]

I'm only getting random crashes while CyberEngineTweaks is installed. Otherwise, never.

On that note, am I missig out on something important if I only use the .ini?

[whole girder]

yes, I'll open a few bugs with the CET team 🤔

yes, you will miss a few things, specifically

• Rain Fix - dynamically enables/disables PT integration of particle FX (smoke, steam, vehicle exhaust, cigarettes) depending on whether there's rain or not (also fixes flickering steam)
• PT Turbo - dynamically reduces spatial sampling outdoors to give better FPS outdoors (which is where fps tend to be lowest)
• PT RR Fix - fixes a vanilla bug where the NRD denoiser pathway can become partially enabled at cut scenes or driving, dropping FPS

they're the main thangs

[mystic shadow]

Thankfully it doesn't crash during the game. Just when loading the save

So if you can get it to load then you're good

It's like 50/50 crash not crash lol

[whole girder]

someone just found the fix

[mystic shadow]

The fix seems to lower fps

not sure why

however it does appear to have fixed the crashes 🙂

[mystic shadow]

Also path tracing samples on the cinematic preset appears to not have any bubbles selected

i have to select cinematic each time

[whole girder]

• Made PT FPS Fix completely automated when RR is enabled (so, removed the checkbox). When using RR, NRD is continually disabled to prevent FPS drops when entering cars and cut scenes
• Fixed regression, PT Turbo was disabling spatial sampling instead of reducing
• Fixed regression, slight reduction of PT Cinematic samples
• Enabled more shadows on distant foliage
• Fixed some sample inconsistencies
• *Fixed Cinematic not detecting correctly
• *Changed recommended DLSSTweaks.ini Preset to C

[whole girder]

there were a few regressions... fixed! 😊

[whole girder]

oh interesting, ty

[mystic shadow]

It's still causing huge framedrops for me

idk why

seems like a me issue though

because i rolled back to 3.4 and it is still happening

FPS is better with 3.3.2

but starting with 3.4 something happened

[mystic shadow]

perhaps it became more CPU heavy?

[whole girder]

no, everything increased in quality
Performance ≈ Normal
Balanced ≈ High
Quality ≈ Insane
Cinematic ≈ The Truth (you can't handle the truth)

as with the Hogwarts mod some people seem to click the highest setting and go omg my GPU 😂😭

it's there because yes some actually want to play on a 4090 at 60-80 fps. but most don't 😂

[mystic shadow]

@craggy vessel and i compared the same scene and he was getting like 25% higher fps with the same GPU

but his CPU is better

i hvae a 5800x3d and he has a i9 14900KF

and he has ddr5 and i have ddr4

so I wasn't sure if there was something CPu related there

but when we run the benchmark in vanilla, he was only getting like 10% better

so it just seemed like Ultra+ was doing something CPU heavy but who knows ha

lots of variables at play

[craggy vessel]

Also to say, not to flatter myself, but I am an expert in hardware and software optimization, and PC resource management, I have been doing it for many years. My Windows version is modified, my CPU is tweaked in the bios, Z790 Dark Hero, all this is noticeable, it's not the same to bring everything from stock than to tune everything.

This takes a lot of time to adjust and test. Until you find the perfect balance

I've gotten more FPS out of Cyberpunk than a stock 4090 many times. Just to know how to optimize resource allocation.

[whole girder]

• fix fps issues with control (hopefully)
• fix crashing due to precache
• disables debug

[whole girder]

same

it's a testing problem

[whole girder]

i'm getting 30-35 fps on cinematic on a 3070 Ti in a laptop lol

idk what people are on about

[mystic shadow]

3.5.1 is a bit better but still getting drops. Seems to dump vram after a while and finally go up

[mystic shadow]

but still getting a large performance hit for some reason when using ultra+ after version 3.3.2

[whole girder]

performance improvements

[whole girder]

we can't replicate here

i'm getting 50 fps on a 3070 Ti 😜

[mystic shadow]

yea i'm not sure

[whole girder]

in a laptop

[mystic shadow]

i'll just wipe the isntall and start from scratch again

[whole girder]

what card do you have?

[mystic shadow]

been trying to fix it all day

4080 super

[whole girder]

also Not So Good Draw Distance was just updated for 2.12a

[mystic shadow]

i wasn't using that

might be something weird on my side

i have a 5800x3d if that helps

this is my vanilla benchmark

anything here seem weird?

Same but with ultra+

[signal flicker]

@whole girder Your Ultra Plus mod seems to be very good, but from my impression it affects mostly other aspects than HDR rendering right? It fixes some crushed blacks, but seems mostly focused on improved visuals, bugfixes and performance improvements in PT-mode, right?

Because then it is better maybe to move Ultra-Plus-mod discussions outside of this Discord to keep this Discord group more HDR-focused 🙂

[teal imp]

It's a generic Cyberpunk discussion thread, and we already have one specific to HDR, I see no reason why we can't discuss none-HDR related thing here

[signal flicker]

I don't mind some deviations into the non-HDR-space now and then with the natural flow of discussions, but the category is still named "HDR-gaming". It was not meant as a completely generic Cyberpunk thread, but still very much connected to HDR or at least its coloring aspects. Ultra Plus dabbles into some aspects of this on rare occasions, but seems mainly focused on very different aspects. So, I would still request the Ultra Plus-mod discussions to either move outside of this Discord or towards #💬chat to keep this discussion thread on-topic 🙂

[signal flicker]

#1180413261133402112 thread btw is specific to screenshots of HDR-imagery of the game. #cyberpunk2077-dev is an archived one (to avoid duplicates) and https://discord.com/channels/1161035767917850784/1216700679612268564 is specific to RenoDX development of the game. This thread was thus meant for generic HDR-discussions regarding the game. Hopefully this clears things up a bit 🙂

[gilded summit]

5800x3d might actually outperform that 14900kf cyberpunk seems to run well on the 3d chiplets https://youtu.be/2MvvCr-thM8?si=qdu3TDTwdrbaAIOO&t=838

[craggy vessel]

Nope they cant, i have a 14900K and is better than a 7800x3D

[mystic shadow]

Please keep this channel the way it is, thank you 🙂

[gilded summit]

I am sure it is better in a lot of ways, but multiple benchmarks among the one i liked show that 3 ryzen cpu's beat it. Asseto Corsa is another game i know of with similar behaviour, factorio too if i am not mistaken. Better is relative i guess.

[mystic shadow]

well that does not reflect our testing. I have a 5800x3d but i have worse fps than xerme

likely due to the CPu

since he has the 14900KF

would be great to have someone else test this with a 4080

to get a 3rd data point

[gilded summit]

you run both differently modded games, so its not apples to apples anymore

[mystic shadow]

our modded games are almost the same

you compared toa 7800x3d though

[gilded summit]

well maybe you should optimise your system like he did

[mystic shadow]

not a 5800x3d

well who else has a 4080. let's do some benchmarks

[gilded summit]

look at benchmarks from reputable channels (gamersnexus is among the best) and you can see the 5800x3d beating it in CPK

[mystic shadow]

Then I guess my system is fucked up cause i had noticeably worse performance than Xerme

would love to compare to someone else with a 4080 🙂

[gilded summit]

well maybe it has to do with tweaks CDPR did to the efficiency cores a few updates back, the benchmarks i came across all benchmark a different build

[mystic shadow]

yea

well here's @random geode 's performance benchmark from a while ago with a 4080 and 7800x3d

Here is mine with a 5800x3d instead

so seems reasonable

so i have no idea why @craggy vessel is getting such better performance with his system

but it's significantly better

like 25% better in some areas

i have no idea what is going on. I need someone else with a 4080 to compare

that was verison 2.11 above fyi

[gilded summit]

there are a lot of variables, multi core enabled/ you both run custom settings instead of a preset, so idk m8

[mystic shadow]

🤷‍♂️

[gilded summit]

i think disabling multi core enhancements is adviced for ryzen cpu'

s

[mystic shadow]

you mean disable "SMT" in the game settings?

[gilded summit]

i can run a benchmark too, but like i said earlier i already run out of vram on my 4090 😄

[gilded summit]

yes

[mystic shadow]

I have it on "auto". I tried disabling it but didn't make a difference whatsoever

[gilded summit]

i think CET does this by default, but im not 100% sure, there is a toggle in the main menu

[mystic shadow]

i can try again

in CET

[gilded summit]

gamersnexus asked the devs a few months back, but auto = disabled on 8 core cpu's

[mystic shadow]

Also going from Ultra+ 3.3.2 to 3.4 is what messed up performance for me

so something with Ultra+ changed

[gilded summit]

8 core 16 threads (which is the 5800x3d)

[mystic shadow]

slightly better on 3.5.2

[mystic shadow]

yea then it's disabled on auto thanks for letting me know

[gilded summit]

NRD on or off can make a huge impact ive seen difference of 22 to 30 fps

[mystic shadow]

NRD on intead of Ray Reconstruction lowers framerate

by a little

[gilded summit]

*22 to 30 fps

[mystic shadow]

but it's not responsible for the entire drop

RR gives better framerate

[random geode]

I call BS btw

[mystic shadow]

also the pt20 appears to have worse performance than the pt21

on the latest ultra+ build

lots of things going on

[random geode]

4080's overclocking potential is really low and the CPU is not going to help

getting 25 FPS more before FG

is bs

[gilded summit]

yeh you are most likely GPU bound with pathracing on

[random geode]

I mean Xerme's benchmark results

[mystic shadow]

no it was after

it was 25% higher

[random geode]

aka around 12 more fps with oc?

that's realistic

[gilded summit]

honestly just go for pathtracing ultimate preset, and apply the same ULTRA+ settings i guess

[mystic shadow]

no like I was dropping to 60s and he was getting like 100

it was a huge difference at times

[random geode]

lol

[mystic shadow]

but like i keep saying, it's ultra+ that is causing the framerate drops

something changed with build 3.4 lol

xerme and sammi are saying they can't reproduce the bad performance but if you look at the nexus page, a ton of people are having my experience

with bad fps

so there must be something else going on

I just don't know what

who knows 😕

[gilded summit]

my base fps gets halved sometimes too, i can go from running 4k native @ 20 fps to ~10 fps, its advicable to restart your game after play session

[random geode]

I didn't use ultra+ and the performance was fairy balanced

[mystic shadow]

I'll just wait to see if future Ultra+ versions have better performance

I tried everything to rule other things out

[gilded summit]

imho, run mod disabler before you run any test, thats the closest to an apple v apple comparison https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/11451 Dunno if this works with mod organisers though

[mystic shadow]

Not sure what changed in 3.4

[mystic shadow]

I can just simply run the game normally outside MO2 and it'll be a vanilla install

since MO2 does the virtual install

so it's easy

[random geode]

I remember that one guy who said that their 4080 was like 20% faster than ours

then it turned out that he was using DLSS perf

isntead of quality

[mystic shadow]

oh yea, that was just a misunderstanding. he was using "auto"

[random geode]

ah yea auto which defaults to perf 😄

[mystic shadow]

when he used quality, we had the same performance

yea lol

exactly

I'm not a mod author so I don't know shit but I truly believe ultra+ has some weirdness that is messing up performance for some reason

starting with 3.4

i will keep testing it of course

[gilded summit]

idk shit about ultra+ compared to sammi, but its a very ambitious mod that changes A LOT of paremeters, which can easily conflict with other mods

[mystic shadow]

looks like sammi agrees

[mystic shadow]

I tested it with all other mods disabled

it's not a conflict

it's ultra+ specifically

[gilded summit]

every single time i have tested the mod (12 x or so) there are always some things bugging me that i don't have with my modlist that involve 20 micro ini settings

[mystic shadow]

i spent all day yesterday on this lol

[gilded summit]

yeh thats the reason i don't leave it on my system

trouble shooting it is way to intensive

especially since i swap ENV's and luts daily 😄

and basically run all LOD mods that don't conflict with each other

[mystic shadow]

ha yea

i'll just keep an eye on this mod

i'm sure they'll get it fixed up eventually

[craggy vessel]

That bench are always a meme or fake. Trust me, i can search benchs of my hardware and i have 30% more perf always hahaha . Sooo

[mystic shadow]

I'm going to try one more thing later. Going to try ultra+ manually installation with NO other mods. And I will remove MO2 completely from this test

we'll see what happens

[craggy vessel]

Funny thing @mystic shadow now i have more FPS hahaha

[mystic shadow]

None of this makes sense lol

[craggy vessel]

110-120 always

[mystic shadow]

i'm still getting huge frame drops with ultra+

❔

lol

[craggy vessel]

From yesterday at night

[mystic shadow]

yea i dont get it

[random geode]

thats pretty standard oc on that 4080

[craggy vessel]

I dont need more , the unlocked bios do the work hahah

[random geode]

I mean it’s not the GPU what causes the better peformance

[craggy vessel]

Its all

His GPU is a bit better also

Is a Super

Mine is normal

[random geode]

I could jump in to test it on my hardware too but I dont really want to install mods and test CP77 atm lol

[mystic shadow]

yes something else is causing his performance boosts

it's not the GPU

it can't be

[random geode]

nor the CPU

[mystic shadow]

because he's getting way better performance than us

with similar specs

[craggy vessel]

I can test later in 4k

To strugg the system

[random geode]

I did not test with ultra+ though

[craggy vessel]

More res , less cpu bounded

[random geode]

1440p is 100% GPU bound with path tracing

[craggy vessel]

Yes and no

PT use core threads also

In GPU ini u can change that

[random geode]

gpu ini?

[mystic shadow]

on or off?

not sure if this has anything to do with anything

or how much performance this saves

[gilded summit]

calling gamersnexus a meme or fake outlet ? lol

you said it here yourself that you spend a lot of time optimising your sys, running a custom version of windows etc, so its not an apples to apples comparison anyways. And several game updates + maybe bios updates from intel platforms idk

the general sense is that with 1440p and up, the GPU is the limiting factor with pathtracing enabled that is basically my finding too, although i run a pretty heavily modded game with very little care taken to optimise (4k textures etc, even on the insane pedrestrian + car count)

I think power limits on GPU and Cooling are most likely the biggest impact makers when it comes to fps.

[gilded summit]

if you keep it below 64 c, and have a good manufacturer that doesn't limit power draw, the 3080 might run more fps then the 3080super (speculations here though)

[mystic shadow]

benchmark is easier on the GPU than actual gameplay

but you can see that there is a large fps impact from Ultra+

and this is without any other mods on top of it

so the difference is even worse during actual gameplay

this is version 3.5.2 pt21 quality

hopefully this helps

[gilded summit]

yeh thats a substantial differnce indeed even in the min fps

[mystic shadow]

yep

i will try 3.3.2 in a little bit, I expect it to be not as bad

not sure what changed with 3.4 onward

pt20 is even worse

[gilded summit]

might be the NRD togle

[mystic shadow]

RR ON helps performance

[gilded summit]

RR on defaults to NRD on

[mystic shadow]

wait what?

when i turn RR on in cyberpunk, ultra+ shows NRD off?

[gilded summit]

thats good

i guess

but the thing is if you change settings in game, like togling RR, nrd will be enabled

[mystic shadow]

that is not the behavior i see

[gilded summit]

that is the default vanilla behaviour

[mystic shadow]

it automatically disabled NRD when you select RR in game

oh does Ultra+ change that?

[gilded summit]

there was a toggle in ultra+ that kept disablingn NRD every minute

[mystic shadow]

i'm so confused...

do you want NRD with RR or no?

[gilded summit]

all im trying to say is that i think this changed in versions

versions of U+

i dont know the version numbers by heart

[mystic shadow]

sorry let's back up

[gilded summit]

gotta check this for yourself

[mystic shadow]

when you use RR, do we want NRD on or off?

what is the desired outcome?

[gilded summit]

NRD eats up frames

[mystic shadow]

when RR is off, NRD is forced on, correct?

in vanilla

[gilded summit]

yes

[mystic shadow]

but when you turn RR on, it doesn't disable NRD in vanilla?

[gilded summit]

in vanilla you cannot disable NRD

[mystic shadow]

oh

so Ultra+ does taht for you I guess

[gilded summit]

depends on the version

[mystic shadow]

yea

[gilded summit]

thats like a ~1 month addition

[mystic shadow]

well i just installed 3.5.2 ultra+ without CET

so i can't see what it's doing

[gilded summit]

with itterations with the 1 min togle

[mystic shadow]

but the result is above

so ultra+ is having some issue with performance

even on quality

on a 4080

[mystic shadow]

1 min toggle? What is that

[gilded summit]

like i said one of the versions of the CET mod send out a command to the game every minute to disable nrd

[mystic shadow]

oh

gotchya

[gilded summit]

because it sometimes turns itself on

[mystic shadow]

gotcha

that's interesting

Yea I'm not sure what is causing the performance impact above then

let me run with RR on real quick

[gilded summit]

gotta take in mind that if you dropped ini mods into a folder, these still take effect

[craggy vessel]

Gamernexus is a AMD Fanboy everyone knows Besides, it is already known that they sponsor him. The only realistic benchmarks are from normal users, not from bought press.

[mystic shadow]

Are you getting them mixed up with hardware unboxed? They're the ones that get accused of being AMD fanboys, not Gamersnexus..

Vanilla RR on

[gilded summit]

hahaha

[mystic shadow]

Ultra+ RR on

still a huge drop

[random geode]

Snake oil. You wont get +30% real world performance by super optimizing your system, maybe 5-10% if you are CPU bound. But I can't deny that optimisation helps with system stability a lot, aka less micro stutter/frame drops etc.

[gilded summit]

yeh well he calls gamersnexus AMD fanboys 😄 this guy lol

"everyone knows"

haha

i'm sorry but i cannot take ANYTHING serious anymore from that guy

[mystic shadow]

perhaps he got it mixed up with monitors unboxed

they tend to swing in favor of AMD a lot

idk

hardware unboxed*

[gilded summit]

both channels are highly recommended

hardwar/monitors unboxed and gamersnexus are both highly reputable channels

[mystic shadow]

yea

They're good

[gilded summit]

that call out AND lose sponsorships because they REFUSE to edit their reviews, and refuse to do sponsored reviews

GN has a good setup, they record their methodoligy, they have a very long history in the field 20 years or so

[craggy vessel]

I don't care if it is intel, AMD or nvidia, they always cheat or mislead bemchmark.

[gilded summit]

dude you cannot just claim bs like this

[mystic shadow]

huh?

[gilded summit]

i cannot take you seriously anymore lol

[craggy vessel]

Who in their right mind buys a 600€ CPU and uses ddr4 at 3200 and 1080p. Nobody

5800x3D is a good cpu

7800x3D is a scam

14900KS is a scam

14900K is overkill

[mystic shadow]

i'm not sure i understand the argument being made

I just want to talk about ultra+ performance 😦 lol

[gilded summit]

im tabbed out of this whole conversation mate, lets continue our u+ talk 😄

[craggy vessel]

Did you try what I told you yesterday to put the textures in the middle? The quality will be the same because you use replacers.

[mystic shadow]

No, because I just literally tested it with ONLY ultra+ and still got bad performance, so we're 100% sure it's ultra+

i'm using vanilla textures

no other mods

🫠

[random geode]

There should be another main category "GAMING" with a forum like this

[mystic shadow]

can you move this chat? So we can keep the history?

rather than making a new one

since this chat is more or less ultra+ and general cyberpunk modding

would be a shame to split up the history

[gilded summit]

yeh rename it to CP modding or something should fit well i guess, i dont think a lot of HDR talk happened in this particular forum

[random geode]

the forbidden west forum is the same now

[signal flicker]

I've discussed this and it was ruled against your idea as this is an HDR-Discord. I'll create the topic, but can't transfer posts already made, so just continue there. Will do that in a few minutes

[mystic shadow]

@whole girder tagging you for later so that you can see my benchmarks. So that you do not miss it 🙂 - also #1186114072027074651 message

[random geode]

Fair, maybe something under chat then

[craggy vessel]

@mystic shadow The last thing that comes to mind is to use DDU to remove the drivers, clear the NVIDIA cache and install again with nvcleaninstall.

[signal flicker]

Sorry, there is no way to do this for me. You could possible just copy paste messages manually if desired. Up to you. Next time make sure to post things in the appropriate channels to avoid this.

And next time also please don't continue with off-topic conversations after explicitly being asked not to do so by me....

[mystic shadow]

Well you didn't have the channel created at the time I responded, so unless I am a time traveler, there was no way to move the convo. But now there is

😅

[signal flicker]

☝️

[indigo summit]

interesting choices

https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3629166

[gilded summit]

under the map on this location are 2 giant squares you can enter, one of them has absolutely 0 light, the other one has some light leakage though some corners of the cube. This is useful if you want to calibrate absolute black. You will need a no clip/fly mod to reach it though. I can recommend this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/780

[mystic shadow]

blah blah blah

@south verge did you do any sort of performance tweaks or extra ini tweaks or anything that could maybe explain this difference?

also what CPU do you have

Also can you post your bench screenshot so we can verify we're matching settings?

[random geode]

looks normal to me

I will rerun with RR enabled

weird

it says that RR was enabled

oh right no RR with DLAA

[mystic shadow]

ok then my system is fucked

idk why

Unless it's somehow the CPU

[south verge]

Last time I ran a benchmark was with v2.2 which had less spatial samples hence better performance. This is v3.51 PT20 with high samples.

Been working on an AgX lut that expands fully to 10K. Posting it here in case anyone wants to look at the alpha. Zero color grading so far

During testing I've been using preemlighting + altweathervisuals if you want a similar look. Midpoint is user preference but scales well, especially in the daytime. Night looks good with a lower midpoint.

[mystic shadow]

Well thx for confirming. THere is definitely something wrong on my side

I'll try a few things to narrow down the cause

@south vergewhat version of the game are you ruinning rn

so it seems that version 2.11 lets you enable RR even with DLAA

and that results in 80 fps with a 4080/7800x3d (as per mpaul)

[random geode]

for some reason yea lol

[mystic shadow]

but if you turn RR off, you get 60

and in version 2.12, it does NOT let you enable RR with DLAA

so i'm getting 55 fps

he gets 60

so makes sense

[random geode]

still 68 fps with FG is borderline unplayable

[mystic shadow]

You likely had RR on here, since version 2.11 kept it on for DLAA even though the benchmark reports it as OFF

but in 2.12 you cannot enable RR with DLAA

i'd be interested to see your performance in 2.12

[random geode]

RR is not supposed to work with DLAA so it's confusing

[mystic shadow]

there is something going on with both ultra+ versions and game version 2.12 vs 2.11

there are multiple things happening here

i may roll the game back to version 2.11

and test

[south verge]

Nope. I don't run RR by choice 😉

Muddy smearing mess unless you manually set dlss res to .95-99

[mystic shadow]

@south vergeOk need to know a few things to troubleshoot. Appreciate it. What game version are you currently on?

[south verge]

2.11

[mystic shadow]

and you're 100% sure RR is toggled OFF in the game settings, correct?

[south verge]

do you not belive me for some reason? lol

[mystic shadow]

I'm just asking

there just seems to be something weird with 2.11 vs 2.12 and RR

[south verge]

Just revert back, 2.11 is superior anyway 😉

[mystic shadow]

yea.....i'm doing that now

i'm very curious

@south vergeDo you happen to know your benchmark average fps with just vanilla on 2.11? I'll start there

[south verge]

Nah. Haven't run a stock game for awhile

[mystic shadow]

do you mind checking, if you're available?

i'm rolling back to 2.11 rn

but gotta download the depot

[random geode]

what do you mean by high samples?

[south verge]

RTXDI samples in control

[mystic shadow]

There is no "high" in version 351

it's either vanilla/performance/balanced/quality/cinematic

[south verge]

I don't use control really, just use the sample count

[teal imp]

It works fine in AW2

[mystic shadow]

Oh yea true I used it for AW with DLAA as well

in cyberpunk 2.12 force disables it, but 2.11 lets you enable it

[mystic shadow]

oh perhaps it is control

so you don't install control at all?

@south vergeCan you explain exactly which Ultra+ files you used? Was it just the 16gb vram file and the other "quality" sample ini, no control? This is so confusing lol

sorry for pinging

[whole girder]

CDPR will have been subtracting 1 pixel from DLAA to make it work correctly

you can force this in DLSSTweaks

[mystic shadow]

2.11 lets you enable RR with DLAA but 2.12 does not

[teal imp]

Really? DLSS Tweaks works with RR?

[whole girder]

idk why you guys don't use PT20 tbh

[mystic shadow]

That's what I was testing

[teal imp]

The more you know

[whole girder]

it's way faster and in most cases has less noise

[teal imp]

Limited GI bounces

[whole girder]

no. there are only 2 or 3 places in the game more than 2 bounces ever do anything

[teal imp]

It makes impossible to see in the darker areas

[whole girder]

and ReSTIRGI says unlimited bounces but in practical terms that doesn't happen

PT20 is clearer in the dark, especially with NRD

[teal imp]

But still, 2.1 has much better visibility in the dark

[whole girder]

🤷‍♀️ you do you. we're all playing on PT20 and NRD lol

[mystic shadow]

I noticed major image stability without RR though

like things "shake"

This game is driving me insane haha

so many variables

[whole girder]

which one is 2.1 ?

one of these is PT20 NRD, the other is PT21 RR

(i have to move the camera, otherwise the reservoir doesn't re-fill)

[mystic shadow]

is left PT21 RR?

[whole girder]

yes

[mystic shadow]

yea the RR one is a bit sharper

[whole girder]

i actually find it really difficult to enable NRD ... doing it in Control doesn't seem to work properly

[whole girder]

and yet...

[mystic shadow]

what if you use the game settings rather than control

like disable RR in the game settings

doesn't that swap to NRD?

[whole girder]

and here RR is unrealistically sharp

[whole girder]

that's what i've been doing ... i have to work out why

it also seems way too easy to get CP to do "no pt denoising"

[mystic shadow]

yea even with the game settings

something seems odd

like i'm seeing major image stability issues when RR is off

and my suspicion is that NRD is not activating

[whole girder]

this wouldn't surprise me at all

i think NRD handles high contrast scenes better too

but it's not like one is definitively better, they both have strenghts and weaknesses

RR is a bit too "AI denoiser" and gets things wrong

like here

wtf is RR doing with his eyes

[teal imp]

Well, that was the case with vanilla at least

[whole girder]

right... i think it might be an eye adaption problem too

[mystic shadow]

left is RR?

Btw thanks for providing these comparisons

I was struggling to see the differences people were talking about. This makes it clear.

[random geode]

this is my main issue with RR

[mystic shadow]

Without RR you have to use DLSS Sharpening, otherwise it's sorta blurry. But dlss sharpening changes colors (at least in HDR) fairly significantly

it's a mess

[whole girder]

that doesn't surprise me 🤔

Cyanide and i were discussing this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vfl79UxxhE ... his comment was he thinks it's an eye adaptation difference, not a PT difference

[mystic shadow]

@whole girderMy guess is all this weirdness with fps issues is something to do with NRD/RR or engine inconsistencies

[random geode]

@whole girder If I don't want to use control, then grabbing the CP2.0 Quality ini + Vram ini + turning off RR in-game is enough?

[mystic shadow]

lol we both pinged her at the same time

[whole girder]

if you look in the dark 2.xx video, the detail is still there

argh! 😂

[random geode]

😅

[whole girder]

it's quite possible. i've often turned on NRD and had like 30 fps and it just stays there. but when it's working it's very close to RR fps

[whole girder]

yes! it just won't optimise performance outdoors

[mystic shadow]

@random geode i uninstalled cp77 already because it's driving me insane but did you test ultra+ without control?

It's been a challenge to narrow down the issue

[random geode]

that's what I'm about to do haha

[mystic shadow]

haha

[whole girder]

but even Performance and Balanced look better than vanilla

[mystic shadow]

FPS goes down though for us, which is the weird part, since that's opposite of how it should be working

well performance goes up it seemed

balanced/quality went down

i'm gonna take a break from this but i'll get back to it in the near future to test more

[teal imp]

Probably more down to (HDR?) LUT clipping shadow detail, 2.0 is actually usable with RenoDX
Still, noticeably darker than 2.1

Bad screenshots I know, but gets the point across

Also 2.1 cinematic as about as fast as 2.0 balanced here

[mystic shadow]

unless i'm blind, 21 looks darker in this screenshot

[random geode]

20 is darker

[mystic shadow]

i'm looking on the left?

i can't see detail with 21?

but i can with 20?

oh was that a coicidental light

[teal imp]

Actually no, 2.0 performance is slower than 2.1 cinematic

[mystic shadow]

I'm also getting fps swings

on different options

I've been trying to figure it out for days but can't

pt20

pt21

that's why i said it looked the opposite

[teal imp]

2.1 didn't spawn the NPC

[mystic shadow]

ha that explains it

i see though that everything else is as you say

20 is darker

By the way, the bugs with NRD/RR dont' seem to just be an ultra+ thing

i had the same results testing vanilla

like the image instability without RR

things shaking

[teal imp]

Shaking is much worse with RR IMO

With NRD you get noise/grain instead, but I find it more tolerable than RR artifacts

[mystic shadow]

which game version are you on just curious

[teal imp]

latest one

[mystic shadow]

gotchya

,eh this game is weird

meh*

[whole girder]

latest results from Krush v3.5.3

keep in mind this is on an AMD (so no RR)

[whole girder]

where is your CP folder?

Steam?

[mystic shadow]

Yea, it's from Steam

[whole girder]

ok hang on

try this

[whole girder]

yeah, based on Krush's testing i might as well discontinue PT20 cinematic

[whole girder]

i'm sure i've seen NRD both with boiling noise and without. idk why though

idk if it's scene dependent, or the engine is doing something weird

i think the logic in the engine to enable NRD is fragile

[bleak karma]

Do I have to have multiple configs to be able to change between them with CET installed

Changing from 2.0 to 2.1 just crashes

But I only have the 2.0 PT balanced installed atm

UI on screen so you can tell what is what

One thing that isn't visable in the screenshots is that with NRD skin has swimming noise

where as RR has AI looking edges

NRD is overly diffuse, very low frequency
RR is overly sharpened

I can't really see much of a difference between 2.1 and 2.0, but this is just one scene

But 2.0 has a perf increase over 2.1, known
RR has a pref increase over NRD, also known

[whole girder]

nope

any config is fine

[whole girder]

what version of control?

[whole girder]

there really isn't any significant difference

you have to remember RTXDI is doing ALL the direct lighting

and there aren't more than 2 bounces almost anywhere

the reason things looked better when CP 2.1 launched was because they'd misconfigured CP 2.0

[mystic shadow]

Visually speaking, is "performance" still nicer looking than vanilla?

[whole girder]

yep!

it's about double the samples, and much more stable image

quite a feat if i do say so myself 😂

[mystic shadow]

🙂

[gilded summit]

The eyes become light emiting with RR,

[gilded summit]

https://tenor.com/view/hacker-hackerman-kung-fury-gif-7953536

lol if i start this vid inside discord, my discord crashes consistently

[whole girder]

grr

also if you turn off RR and NRD (so all you see is dots), SHaRC never seems to work like it should

it doesn't look anything like Nvidias examples

doesn't matter what settings I put into it either

[gilded summit]

off<->on Seems exactly what happens when you disable both in CPK. That what i recorded here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgaNOOU8Y7Y found a guide and the resources on github to implement sharc, i dont know exactly what happens in CPK, but if you take a photo it takes samples of the path traced image, and it eliminates noise while there are no denoisers active, but this takes like ~10 samples or so. Anyways here is the git https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/RTXGI/blob/main/docs/NrcGuide.md

my 2 cents, skip it lol. Unless this is done easily by you. I would love to have more options especially when it comes to denoising, but I hate for you to do all this work, and then discover 1 update later, that CDPR implements this new system into the game. Honestly I woul not invest too much time into this, because they are still working on updates. And these techniques are imho still in its infancy as a whole. New techniques are developed every few months its seems.

[whole girder]

yes I remember the video. it just odd. I don't think they've implemented SHaRC properly.

I really don't think they're going to make any big changes now, it's gone into low cost maintenance mode. they maaay implement RTXGI 2.0 because that's designed as a low-effort update, but even then they're not using RTXGI, ReSTIR is doing the GI (or ReLAX with PT20) so idk that there's much to update. I'm not expecting any major changes...

[formal lodge]

they haven't even implemented FSR3 yet which is a total surprise since that wouldn't be much work to add

(which i personally want for SCRGB since i use frame gen. here's hoping its FSR3.1)

maybe its worth waiting with that in mind

would RTXGI 2.0 be a notable improvement?

[mystic shadow]

@whole girderI tested a bit more. First of all, you are correct with the pt20 performance. It does have better fps than vanilla, even on quality, when flipping between "vanilla" samples and "quality" samples

I have narrowed down the FPS issues to movement

when I move around, fps tanks in certain situations

then when i stay still, it shoots back up

so seems to tank when moving around for some reason

However when I compare the same area WITHOUT ultra+, I have a similar issue but my fps goes up like 30% and it's fine

so something with ultra+ is still tanking performance for me unfortunately, on all quality levels, even performance or vanilla. I cannot figure out why.

the mystery continues

[gilded summit]

run msi afterburner or something to monitor Vram Temps Frequency, with the help of hwinfo you can add some exclusive info to riva statistics too (the monitoring tool that afterburner uses) too

those 2 are usefull too at least for checking if your GPU has no hardware issues

[mystic shadow]

There is nothing wrong with my GPU

temperatures are fine

[gilded summit]

memory junction isnt mentioned, neither is GPU hotspot

unless you already added them though hwinfo

its likely fine but still just for peice of mind you can use it for an hour or so to see if you don't get extreme reading

[mystic shadow]

hwinfo has these already

i'm telling you, my GPU is fine

i have tested other things

[gilded summit]

thats cool bro, i dont know if you use it or not so just trying to be helpful 😄

[mystic shadow]

I appreciate it

[gilded summit]

so you are sure you are not vram limited?

the only other thing i can think of is to disable resolution down sampling

cant recall the exact name, but some mods allow you to enable / disable them

but it doesnt work with dlss i think

and you will get issues when moving

[mystic shadow]

Wait hold the phone. The performance ini has muchhhh better fps

But using quality ini kills fps

[gilded summit]

dude quality ini has more than 2 bounces and 2 rays

that kills fps

[mystic shadow]

People here were saying they still had great fps with quality ini

That's why i was using that

To compare

[gilded summit]

maybe im mistaken

[mystic shadow]

You probably aren't

[gilded summit]

can you control F, and search bounce, or ray?

[mystic shadow]

sure

i was under the impression that there was no real difference with the inis

and you could just select the samples quality in control

but clearly there is a huge difference with them

[mystic shadow]

you are correct. Just checked

except it's 3 rays

2 bounces 3 rays

performance is 1 and 1

[gilded summit]

you can try quality ini and just change that thing to 2/2

see how much extra fps you get

[mystic shadow]

i will try

[gilded summit]

2/2 is default

[mystic shadow]

vanilla is 2/2?

Sammi said "performance" is supposed to still look better than Vanilla though

how is that true if it's only 1/1

unless i'm missing something

[gilded summit]

i personally dislike just 1 bounce

and it breaks some reflections

but "performance" might do other things better then vanilla does

idk

[mystic shadow]

yea i'd have to ask Sammi

a lot has changed recently

which ini file are you using?

[gilded summit]

i only use the ram file

don't use anything else at the moment because it takes too much time to troubleshoot, and i already have to work out 8 different things that are going wrong

[craggy vessel]

If u want RTSS overlay

[gilded summit]

No thanks this is obvious intel propaganda, bought and payed for

[craggy vessel]

Thats true

[gilded summit]

if i install that it will explode my system because i have an AMD cpu, because Lisa Sue payed me

[craggy vessel]

That's right, it destroys a CCX,

[gilded summit]

but if it allows me to download 48 GB of ram though...

[craggy vessel]

Sure!

https://downloadmoreram.com/

[gilded summit]

I am semi joking though, to expand a little bit on our earlier conversation, Gamers Nexus is generally considered by the whole hardware enthousiast community as a highly accurate and trust worthy outlet. And the issue with user benchmarks (not the website obviously because they are just crazy) is that everyone runs different setups/ windows versions/ driver installs/ gpu's overclocks etc etc etc. So in the benefit of having actual data with the same setups is vital. To stay as scientifically accurate as possible. I take offense inyou calling GN payed for reviews because its a lie, you give 0 proof as to your statements even after questioning. And then also pretending this is a commonly known thing...

[random geode]

sounds like the denoiser tbh

[gilded summit]

thats not what i notice when i enable or disable them though

[random geode]

GN might be the only truly reliable source when it comes to hardware tests

[mystic shadow]

Doesn't matter if nrd or rr

Balanced ini also results in better fps than vanilla

and it's good

so it's the quality INI file where issues happen

[craggy vessel]

I don't speak English very well, but I didn't mean paid, but rather that they are unrealistic, or unrealistic environment tests, I don't know if I'm making myself clear.

But I'm not tilted or anything, I'm here to help if I can.

[gilded summit]

im not sure if i trust your judgement

[craggy vessel]

I like to overclock, touch parameters, etc. That's why AMD is not for me. Because I could not get the same results with an x3D.

If you just want to buy and put, it's not a bad option.

Look, I am referring to these things that you find on the Internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUxMCd3s8ZU&t=11s

The guy says he plays at 1080p and a 3090.

How can you get only 700fps with a 7800x3d something is wrong.

https://youtu.be/TpN4UEEQZB4?si=GCPhJjGs97BkmuBN Another fake/wrong setup

1080p 4090

And thats me

But this is not the chat to talk about it :D , But I can help you achieve similar results

[mystic shadow]

Might wanna take discussions on benchmarking reviewers to another channel just an fyi 🙂

maybe chat

unless it's cp77 benchmarks 🙂

[mystic shadow]

Fyi it might be best to disable RR before loading the save game rather than after. For stability

[whole girder]

you're using 3.5.3? there was a bug in earlier versions where it was enabling RTXDI history, which tanks performance in 2.12+ for some reason (it didn't in 2.11)

[mystic shadow]

Yea, so the balanced INI is perfect

FPS is higher than vanilla

The Quality INI is where fps tanks

I know you made the quality INI more performance heavy starting with 3.4ish, right? So I think this makes sense?

[whole girder]

to clarify... performance samples looks better than vanilla. I use PT20 Balanced

[mystic shadow]

Right

I'm using pt20 balanced as well

I think that is the best to use

[whole girder]

right

[bleak karma]

What are some cases where I'd see the difference most obviously

[mystic shadow]

I kept trying to test with the quality ini

and I was just changing "sample quality" in control

not realizing that the other inis had other changes

that's where i got tripped up

[whole girder]

between what?

[bleak karma]

The different presets

[whole girder]

this is the problem, I can't even think of any... for PT20 Performance, you will see occasional windows missing a bounce, and a few areas where the scene is darker

I honestly doubt anyone would notice a difference between Quality or Cinematic... I've seen a few (as in... "2" or "3") areas in the whole game where a 3rd bounce makes any difference at all

I think 3 bounces is pointless

[bleak karma]

I can't remember what I was testing, if it was PT2.1 v Vanilla OR the samples between Vanilla and Quality ecct, but the main thing I saw that the removal of spec. highlights on the edges of reflective surfaces

[whole girder]

some people seem to say "6 rays 3 bounces looks amazing" ... I don't see it personally. BUT that is where ReSTIR begins to outperforms ReLAX

[whole girder]

that sounds like NRD vs RR

[bleak karma]

May be, i'll test some more in a bit

[whole girder]

there are plenty of examples where the RR denoiser seems to overdo fine edges and shadows too

[mystic shadow]

haha 6 rays 3 bounces would net me like 5 fps

Feel free to answer later, but what exactly does each Gits Relight .xl files do? I am just shocked at how messy and incoherent the mod page is for this mod lmfao.

[bleak karma]

When I was playing on a 1080p screen I set it to 4ray 2 bounces with DLAA, the game looked perfect

[whole girder]

it's pointless...

in most places 1 ray with probabilistic is enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twjJxoidtcY

[whole girder]

i'm not really sure ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mystic shadow]

LOL

then why do you recommend it

[whole girder]

because in some areas it looks a lot better 😊

you asked what exactly does each xl file do...

i know what the mod does in broad terms. idk what's in each file

[mystic shadow]

Oh I'm sorry. Then yea, i'd love to hear your take on what it does in broad terms

[whole girder]

from what i can tell, some objects (and lights?) aren't actually in the path traced world space... they are rendered in raster, and then sampled in path tracing (this is called environment probes or env probes)

the result is when you see them, they look a little odd, or sometimes just wrong

there are also times when CDPR has artistically added another light source, or blocked some light sources, to get a specific feel for a scene ... one of the places they do this BB calls out is in cars and cut scenes

but a lot of those decisions were made years ago before there even was path tracing, and i don't think they've been reviewed

...so the short version is, they did some quick hacks to get some things to work in path tracing. and they work. kind of

BB has removed a lot of artificial light sources and light blockers, and (i think) moved some objects (nodes) into the PT worldspace, so they are rendered fully

disabling RIS doesn't actually disable resampled importance sampling - doing that in path tracing doesn't make any sense - but it disables CDPR's hack to do RIS sampling on raster assets

[mystic shadow]

Thank you that's really informative!

I'm using the relight files with ultra+

It looks really good with renodx

[whole girder]

i was trying to find some examples
(left) relight off ... right relight on

left relight off ... right relight on

off .... on

[mystic shadow]

Nice yes I'll definitely keep using it then thx. I wasn't sure what was in the relight files and what was in the basic .archive file (which i didnt use)

[whole girder]

also this is the original version with no fixes

BB did a rush job to fix fast travel (which wasn't working for some people) ... but it removes the light cast from fast travel and other holograms

i don't have a problem with fast travel so i just use the original

[mystic shadow]

That's the archive file?

It's a ENV right?

I'm not 100% sure i know which are envs and which aren't

[mystic shadow]

You don't need that fix with the relight files right?

[formal lodge]

for anyone with an AW34DWF

or a QD-OLED,

what settings would you recommend for reno?

trying to work out what's good for this monitor

[olive ether]

recommend vanilla lut order

[formal lodge]

yeah i was thinking that

oooh thanks

[olive ether]

and gamma 2.2 always

either do 2.2 always or lut correction on

both will crush blacks

[mystic shadow]

usually crushing blacks is a bad thing lol

[olive ether]

ya i meant choose one or the other

not both

#1216700679612268564 message

these settings are good

just make sure you set peak to the correct value for your display

[mystic shadow]

ohh

[mystic shadow]

Yea I adjusted the peak. I think OpenDRT looks better in some situations, but ACES seems more balanced

OpenDRT looks cooler in the super populated LED areas

[olive ether]

ya the game was made with ACES originally

[mystic shadow]

but either way, I need the D65 adjustment. I really don't care for the original temperature

I think it's too warm

[olive ether]

seems like true hdr 400 is best for this display

so 400 nit peak

if you're in a dark room 203 nits game brightness might be too much

[bleak karma]

I don't actually like ACES or OpenDRT so I am just going to stick with Stock

[olive ether]

aces is just the same tonemapper but without the broken parts like the weird stretched out highlights that look deep fried if you raise peak past like 800

[formal lodge]

i honestly thought true hdr 400 felt too dim for my tastes

[formal lodge]

that said those settings do look quite nice, thanks!

[olive ether]

might also depend on viewing environment

[formal lodge]

that's fair. my room can be very dim, little to no light is hitting the screen

maybe i ought to just get to used to true hdr 400

i know for the 4K monitor, people recommend that setting more then peak 1000 which

seems to be the common recommendation for the 34DWF

[mystic shadow]

DLSS Sharpening appears to slightly change colors, but I think i need it on 0.5 when using NRD instead of RR

[olive ether]

i'm seeing on rtings that it has aggressive abl

AW34DWF

[formal lodge]

it does unfortunately, yeah

[olive ether]

it says abl is less aggressive with true hdr 400

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/alienware-aw3423dwf

[bleak karma]

Whenever I use your "match vanilla" it just looks so mcuh less contrast, saturation lessened, just a worse overall image

[olive ether]

hmmm

[bleak karma]

and I cannot get the sliders to match up to where the image even loosely resembles vanilla

[olive ether]

gimme a sec to check it out

[mystic shadow]

use the image he posted below

i think it's better

[bleak karma]

Below?

[mystic shadow]

sorry, below that other image

he posted two i thought

one that was vanilla-like, and one he actually prefers

#1216700679612268564 message

except use gamma correction always

and i think musa had 2x mid tones set in game

so you can do 2x in game and 1.0 in reno, or 1x in game and 2.0 in reno

[olive ether]

shortfuse found the values that they plugged into the tonemapper in game

2/3 exposure
2x pw

[mystic shadow]

yea 2x pw is crazy

[olive ether]

ya but thats cause they use a lower exp

idk why its like that but it balances out

[bleak karma]

wait the in game mid point controls the image under ACES?

why (not asking why techincally, but why a feature)

[olive ether]

in game midpoint is just exposure

exposure in renodx is calculated by this

addon setting * in game setting

so if i set in game to 2 and renodx to 1 it equals 2

and in game to 1 and renofx to 2 it equals 2 as well

the reason CDPR originally gave users the exposure control instead of paper white is because it has the gamma mismatch issue

they just didn't figure that out

so they decided to give users control over exposure so they can lower it and mitigate the raised blacks

but that just fucks up the image in other ways

[mystic shadow]

You prefer the white point at vanilla? I like 65 so much more ha

but i know that changes it a lot

[olive ether]

oh lol im dumb i forgot to change it back

[mystic shadow]

that's personal preference i guess

but those settings look balanced i think

opendrt is wonky but i like highlights

[olive ether]

set in game tonemapper midpoint to 2

you might wanna turn down bloom depending on whether your env has a custom bloom setting

ultra plus fog already lowers bloom so you wont need to do that if you have that installed

vignette is also personal preferencew

maybe exposure should be renamed exposure multiplier with a tooltip explaining that it is a multiplied by in game tonemapper midpoint

[indigo summit]

https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/dxvk-remix/blob/main/RtxOptions.md

rtx.di.initialSampleCount int 4 The number of lights randomly selected from the global pool to consider when selecting a light with RTXDI.

rtx.di.maxHistoryLength int 4 Maximum age of reservoirs for temporal reuse.

[mystic shadow]

what's the matter here? The fast travel thing should be brighter?

[indigo summit]

rtx.restirGI.biasCorrectionMode int 4 Bias correction mode to combine central with its neighbors in spatial reuse.

most interesting line there

trying to test 4 atm to see if its real