│nightclub

[plucky timber]

check faq

[sonic canopy]

in steam?

[plucky timber]

on discord server

[sonic canopy]

OK

Can I log in with Steam?😭

I bought it on Steam

[native moth]

where

[sonic canopy]

🤔

[sonic canopy]

What?

[native moth]

where do you want to login

[sonic canopy]

Steam

[native moth]

yes you can login

[sonic canopy]

OK

Will it be online in 2025?

[native moth]

I don't know when multiplayer will be released

[sonic canopy]

Hope it comes out soon.

It was very popular in China when it was first released.

It seems to be out of fashion now.

[sonic canopy]

Single finger bilibili

[native moth]

ok

[sonic canopy]

😭

[candid frigate]

how do you get the arg role

[vestal gale]

in #│roles

[candid frigate]

Thx

[sonic canopy]

Please tell me when will it be updated?

[last steppe]

Guys, is it true that the Mike Klubnika is 13 years old?

[rotund storm]

game was fucking huge all over tiktok

[agile rapids]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ftS_LYGiGT8?si=rP6vN_0oLmAGT2Db

[winter geode]

the numbers did infact lie'

[hybrid wolf]

they didn't, you actually have a 66% chance overall of getting shot if you shoot yourself lol

as a rule of thumb the less you point the barrel at yourself the less likely you are to get shot in the head

that also works in real life btw

[fallow cobalt]

Incase anybody is curious what this says, it just means "checked!" in estonian

[cosmic spade]

HOLY FUCK

Less goooooo

[ember rose]

Not sure if anything can be ascertained from this

Also, no new items visible in this screenshot

[lofty wharf]

hol up, does everyone get the same items

[ember rose]

That’s the beer can I’m pretty sure

[plucky timber]

true

[plucky timber]

no

[pliant willow]

I tried to count and it looks like there's slots for up to 10 bullets in the shotgun

[ember rose]

Unlikely
Since this is unfinished, it’s likely just testing out how the base items work (minus handcuffs, as they are an item which is fundamentally different in multiplayer)

[ember rose]

Nice, good to know

It looked like more but wasn’t sure

[pliant willow]

Yea

[hybrid wolf]

I think they just used 2 of each the campaign items for every player just to show the layout

[pliant willow]

So instead of 8 there can be a max of 10
I wonder if its gonna have similarly functioning live-blank loadouts liike in DoN

[hybrid wolf]

looked like 9 to me

[pliant willow]

Ok heres a screenshot

[hybrid wolf]

nvm

[vestal gale]

yup 10

[pliant willow]

Ok I did count right lol

[ember rose]

Yeah I’m curious too

Double or nothing never has more live than blanks

Multiplayer may not have that same luxury

[plucky timber]

5 lives 5 blank

[pliant willow]

Yea
It could be similar to DoN's loadouts, be truly random, or a secret, devious third option

[ember rose]

Indeed

[golden dock]

The Amount of blanks will propably relate to the amount of total charges left to keep gameplay interesting in later stages of the game i would imagine

[real grove]

And what about the 1 on 1 mode, I hope the developer will not make only a mode for four players....

[novel stratus]

hold on... was the city not supposed to be in shutdown mode ? how did volta tech send a new table let alone a new system to the club ?

[thin lichen]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the machine mechanisms in the new teasers are about to make me act... Unwise

[idle venture]

The ammo belt looks cool.

I'm also glad the "spin the shotgun" thing made it into the game.

Also, the "DO NOT USE" sticker on the item box is funny.

[next saddle]

Im guessing its going to be 7 lives max for multiplayer, cause usually there are 5 lives in game

[plucky timber]

probably 6 lives

since they added 25% more space for bullet

[next saddle]

Maybe, but what is also interesting about this screenshot, is the specific mechanical way of showing the loadout, like the game won't be controlled by the Dealer, but a computer

Like the shotgun is definitively being loaded with that belt

[pliant willow]

Where my Dealer,,
Where he

[next saddle]

Also, the cleaning mechanism is sick, not a puny droop into the table way, but giant magnets or something from heaven

[thin lichen]

hes on his 15 minute smoke break cuz hes sick of our antics

[vestal gale]

real

[wispy perch]

I might have found the password

1:42 21/08/98

[pliant willow]

Get the arg role in #│roles and talk about it in the arg channels

[proven breach]

Hand swicher for swich roller hand like a cycil (sorry for gramar mistakes)

[sage swallow]

I hope you cant decide who you shoot in multiplayer, a person will target one person and it will go on. Hated that from those roblox knockoffs

[alpine fulcrum]

I feel like the move for Multiplayer was to just get it out quickly, leaving it largely the same as the base game, and then building up to all this neat stuff over time. Just the tiny little sneak peek we got alone has me thinking this is gonna be a LOT to take in at once and could possibly feel like a different game entirely.

That said, still excited

[mortal osprey]

I'm curious what the other players will look like in-game. We getting generic avatars or will we be picking them?

[pure obsidian]

that's what im curious about as well

[hybrid wolf]

I would think either something akin to Tartarus Engine, or grotesque monsters like the Dealer

[rain oyster]

Afraid to disappoint, but at least that's the plan right now
Though a lot of this isn't set in stone, so subject to change, yadda-yadda
A lot will depend on the eventual beta reception

[normal galleon]

I feel like best approach is make it a toggle.

Allow the host to decide how the game will handle shooting other players.

either Automatic or manually. Cuz some people will enjoy being able to choose and some people will enjoy more of a linear playstyle to it

so best of both worlds is just make it a toggle that the host can alter

Kinda like a Gamerule

[lofty wharf]

maybe for private rooms but if theyre gonna implement regular matchmaking that wouldnt work

[split sail]

game bug from Travis Guy's playthrough

3 months ago so it's probably fixed but I still wanted to share it

[vocal granite]

italian dealer be like

mamma mia! *shoots you

[split sail]

i mean, i can kind of see it but it would be better if he actually holded it with his left hand like it was actually doing the mamma mia

[normal galleon]

It's going to be Peer to Peer

I doubt there is going to be public Matchmaking

Cuz that's expensive as hell

[lofty wharf]

a matchmaking server is not that expensive. I also haven't heard any confirmation about it being peer to peer. Even if that's the case, you can still have matchmaking just fine

[normal galleon]

yeah but I kinda doubt it will have full public matchmaking

Only time can tell

[timid stag]

that looks so funny tho

[static escarp]

Will the Steam price increase once multiplayer is officially established as a component of the game?

[charred lantern]

Hey, I'm new here and just played the game for the first time. Have they said whether or not they'd be interested in converting this to a board game?

[ember rose]

I haven’t heard any news about that, but I’d personally love to get a board game variant

[vestal gale]

a board game of buckshot roulette?

[ember rose]

Yes

It would be a little tricky to make I presume, considering loading of the shells and items like the phone/inverter

[charred lantern]

I googled it and I've seen other people talk about it but couldn't find anyhting related to the producers. I feel like the multiplayer version would translate super well

[charred lantern]

yeah there might would have to be a dedicated dealer character but that doesn't sound as fun. Hopefully there could be some work around

[normal galleon]

Tbh very unlikely, but who knows. I personally wouldn't mind if it was upped to 5 bucks

[idle venture]

I've got a set of cards you can print, a round generator hosted online, and a recommendation for a few good airsoft shotgun models.
Half-jokes aside, Buckshot Roulette can translate into a card game fine enough, but it'd lose a major portion of its vibe.

[static escarp]

Right? For the extra content that the game provides and the amount of work being done behind the scenes...I'm sure all of that required some money, so perhaps making a little bit more in subsequent sales of the games could cover the costs. But yeah, not a lot. $4.99 would sound reasonable if they did increase it.

[neon eagle]

Has there been any news on the animated steam background?

[normal galleon]

Will be released with multiplayer probably

Or likely a tiny bit before that

[prisma orchid]

Hi Everyone

I just got the game.

[mental smelt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1158734216893317120/1268882991728300062/Dealerhiii.gif

You're going to have so much fun

[prisma orchid]

I know

I just played my first 2 games

i had a blast

(no pun intended)

Peace out, i gotta play some more.

[lofty wharf]

KEEP GAMBLING

[vapid solstice]

Some pos keeps copyrighting Mikes stuff lmao

[hallow spear]

at this point we gotta stop some people from being able to copyright stuff. sometimes they just don’t deserve it

DX

[tawdry otter]

Delightful crossover
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbBvmBtPsmg

[tranquil basin]

Hello

[ionic forge]

Wake up chat 😭

[cosmic heron]

no

[brittle marsh]

i bought the itchio version back in January, are all updates only for the steam version and is it discontinued?

[idle venture]

It was updated, but multiplayer is probably going to be Steam-exclusive.

[vocal granite]

hi there! we had an update for itch.io in April https://mikeklubnika.itch.io/buckshot-roulette/devlog/716735/v122-update

[brittle marsh]

awesome ty!!!

[manic fox]

really hope multiplayer has a way to add AI's to play against

[minor arrow]

maybe? i feel like that would kind of defeat the point though, especially if they port the new stuff to double or nothing (and if they dont, modders will lmao)

honestly im just hoping there's a chat feature of some sort for random lobbies cuz the social aspect of this game is what im looking forward to the most

i feel like if there was items that leaned into mindgames that would be really cool, although i doubt it

imagine an item that's like "Empty the gun and reload the shells in whatever order you want. You cannot have a turn until the gun is empty." then you gotta call bluffs if someone tells you they loaded a blank

[slow quiver]

Does the game already have multiplayer?

[idle venture]

Only as a mod, but it's nothing like the official multiplayer currently in development.

[steel ridge]

what is the mod name ?

[manic fox]

Just hoping there's some way we can make the new content from the update into a speedrun, AI's would make the most sense IMO, especially if you aren't able to fill a 4 person lobby

[idle venture]

https://github.com/j-trueman/multiplayerclient

[steel ridge]

thats what i call dedication gamble is allways solution

then wait for muliplayer

[lost fog]

done

i turned this shit into a card game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GewLNZAi2hg&t=1s

time to fucking remix this list you have given me, thank you!

if i have time that is

[idle venture]

Hah. Have fun. I've also discovered a track called He Woke in Darkness by Hodge. It's cool and does kinda fit the vibe.

[idle venture]

Already had a chance to play it with someone?

[undone arch]

one time i sucked so bad the robot pulled out a 5 dollar bill and handed it to me

[steel ridge]

fr ?

[steel ridge]

send screenshot

[minor arrow]

vellon skip multiplayer edition

i still wish they added vellon skip back if you put your name down as vellon, but it disqualified you from the leaderboards to prevent cheating (not that it would change much anyways)

[manic fox]

only bad part about vellon skip was how ridiculously hard it was to do

speedrun board been slowly dying for a while now, yall should try it out🙏

[unreal bridge]

does this game have multiplier?

multiplayer

[spring cosmos]

Not yet

[unreal bridge]

ok thanks

[spring cosmos]

[sleek sentinel]

[solid ridge]

Got this meme mid game

[lost fog]

yessir

[timber frigate]

Hi!

[timber frigate]

I have some questions and ideas regarding the arg. Where would the place to put those be?

[pliant willow]

Get the arg role in #│roles then go to #│brainstorming

[timber frigate]

Thanks!

[pliant willow]

Yeye

[idle venture]

Nice, nice. I've been having fun playing my own version too. Kinda curious what your gameplay process is like exactly and how some of the cards work. Phone, for example. And general things like randomizing the loadout.
I'm guessing dice are involved in determining the amount of shell cards and whichever card gets revealed by the phone?

[scenic flame]

can anyone explain what has happened here? never got 70k from a first set of double or nothing mode

[idle venture]

Huh. I also thought it was impossible to get much more than 50K.

It's like the game gave up on tracking time and gave you the full prize.

[scenic flame]

the highest i ever got was 53k but this seems strange

the game lets me continue from my previous spot if i die or reset and it immediately goes back into the round, i don't have to input my name or anything

[little thicket]

в тиктоке у вас уже выпустили мультиплеер, и даже сделали на него обзор)
english: in russian tiktok has already released a multiplayer, and even made a review on it

[scenic flame]

i completed a run in double or nothing and the game is stuck in this state now

[minor pulsar]

he lives in the future

[lofty wharf]

this is called the danger skip, it happens when you reset when the shell count for the next loadout is shown

After doing the danger skip once, you will always get 70K, and you could skip the first 1 or 2 rounds depending on which round you reset on

[lofty wharf]

but i didnt know the game got even more messed up if you completed a run after doing the skip lol

[scenic flame]

the game is like 10 times more eerie without the club music

[vestal gale]

You can fix this by closing and reopening the game

[lofty wharf]

I had always assumed that the player using multiple phones at once made the phones always reveal the same shell, just because it had happened to me a few times. I never bothered to test it again, but just now I tested it and it turns out that was just a plain lie lol, the two phones are totally independent. I did test it in the original steam release version so it could have maybe changed until now (especially since they did touch the phone in 1.2.2), but probably not

[ember rose]

They are independent, yeah, and I can confirm it has always been this way

I advise not using two phones at once since there is a possibility it can reveal the same shell, but it is not guaranteed

[feral phoenix]

that dude is living in future for real.

[feral phoenix]

real

[manic fox]

This is an inaccurate usage of the term "danger skip". Danger skip works using a bug where you reset while the shells are being shown on the table and the game is convinced you died rather than reset and puts you back on the round you reset at. "Danger skip" is the term for using this bug in round 3 of double or nothing to switch over back to "story mode" in round 3. The video clip posted looks like the same bug might be occurring but it's unrelated to danger skip

Also as far as I know danger skip doesn't auto get you 70k

[lofty wharf]

well its the same bug that the danger skip uses, which we dont have a name for, so im just calling the bug itself danger skip

[lofty wharf]

it does

[manic fox]

https://www.speedrun.com/Buckshot_Roulette/runs/y2w19j6y here is my speedrun using danger skip and I don't get 70k

[lofty wharf]

i meant for DoN specifically

[manic fox]

Like I said "Danger skip" is specifically the term for switching over from DoN to story mode using the unnamed bug

[lofty wharf]

ok what should i call it then?

im calling it amogus bug from now on

[manic fox]

I always just describe it as "this is a bug that happens when resetting the game while the shells are being shown on the table, convincing the game that you died rather than reset"

I've never heard of a name being applied to it

Even vellon skip I'd describe as "using a bug where clicking at a high enough cps on the dealer text would allow you to fire multiple shots at once" I wouldn't describe vellon skip AS the bug

[pliant willow]

I mena, it certainly is a mouthful to type it out every single time when refering to the bug lol

[manic fox]

Yeah but when referring to it the first time to someone, regardless you'd have to explain it. After you know about the bug it doesn't come up in conversation really unless you're already explaining it to someone so in that conversation after you could just call it "the bug"

[sour tulip]

Why not just refer it to what the ultimate effects are?

I.e. if it swaps you into story mode, you can call it the Mode Swap glitch

Or if you're using it to get 70k in DoN, you can call it the 70k glitch

Sounds more intuitive to me than Danger Skip

[manic fox]

Danger skip was named by the guy who came up with idea (at least in the speedrunning community) to swap from DoN to story mode to complete the game faster. Personally I would've rather had a different name, but all of the tutorial videos he made and discussion around it had been referred to as "danger skip" so there was no point referring to it as something else

He wanted to follow the same naming system as "vellon skip" even though vellon hadn't chose the name for his, and vellon skip actually skipped something

[lofty wharf]

70k glitch is a bad name cuz it does much more than letting you get 70k
I think something like shell reset bug would be a better name

[timid stag]

one of my high scores is 64k

you need to be both good and lucky tho

[vocal cedar]

you need to be a true gambler

[normal galleon]

imma pop 12 cans of redbull and play all night long ngl

[sour tulip]

Sure, that works too

Just having a title that either explains what you do in it or what the effects are makes sense

[tranquil basin]

A friend was streaming the game in discord and i was watching and just hanging out one day and he got both the full house and know when to quit achievements in one run, then the next day got the 1000k achievement in the first run he played

i got full house the day after that too, but i still dont have any of the double or nothing achievements

[scenic flame]

is the timing super particular for this reset on shells bug?

haven't been able to replicate what happened yet

[lofty wharf]

i have never failed the bug so it probably doesnt have a tight timing
just hold R as soon as you see the shells here

[hybrid wolf]

I actually got it by accident while the shells weren’t even showing yet, so no it’s not tight at all lol

[scenic flame]

weird, i tried it earlier and it didnt work, but did it just now

[timid stag]

omg the man himself

love your game Mike I also played concrete uhhh

battleship

you know the one

[manic fox]

Yeah Double Or Nothing speedrunners have to actually avoid it because of how often we are resetting when we see the amount of lives we got

[spare gust]

so i just started a turn, 4 lives 4 blanks, he shot himself 4 times in a row making all blanks fall out while not using any items

[pliant willow]

Sometimes it just be like that

I had a 4-4 and all 4 beginning shells were fuckin blanks

[spare gust]

its more that, he shot himelf with all of them with full confidence, the hell is this AI

[pliant willow]

Its crazy how that just kinda happens sometimes

[hybrid wolf]

That doesn’t sound like its usual pattern
The Dealer shoots itself when it knows the shell, there’s more blank than lives, or 50% of the time when the number is equal
For this to happen it would need to know they’re all blank which means using items, otherwise it would 1) use items, 2) at best alternate between shooting itself and shooting you
So I think we’re missing some info here

[spare gust]

there wasnt any

he shot himself 4 times right at the start of the turn, all were blanks, then shot me beacuse the last 4 were live

[hybrid wolf]

Was it DoN or campaign mode ?

[spare gust]

DoN

[hybrid wolf]

That’s… weird

[spare gust]

oh wait

one thing

[pliant willow]

The turn never starts on his turn

[spare gust]

i used the first shell and it was live

ye that

[pliant willow]

Youd have to do something before its his turn

[hybrid wolf]

So the load out was 5-4 ?

[spare gust]

4-3

when he got his turn

[hybrid wolf]

Ok so it shot on 3-3
Uh

[spare gust]

it shot on 4-3

i shot on 4-4

[hybrid wolf]

Ah

Wait that makes even less sense lol

[spare gust]

i shoot first

[hybrid wolf]

Did it use phones before hand ?

[spare gust]

nope

it used no items

i dont remember what exactly he had but one of the items was meds

[hybrid wolf]

Because on 4-3 with no item and no info, it’s programmed to shoot you no matter what

[spare gust]

at this point ill just reinstall my game

[hybrid wolf]

Lol

[pliant willow]

Eveyr copy of BR is personalized.....

[spare gust]

it wasnt the first time he did something like that either

[hybrid wolf]

Yeah either we’re missing something, or the code broke

[spare gust]

he got mad i beat the game on my first attempt

[hybrid wolf]

Lmao

[spare gust]

totally didnt watch 8 playthroughs

[hybrid wolf]

On my first attempt on the steam version, I got a 70k payload lol

[spare gust]

dam

[hybrid wolf]

I had experience with the itch.io

I also managed to get a no hit once

[lofty wharf]

what version of the game do you play on

[spare gust]

V1.2.2 steam

[spare gust]

any special strategy to do full house?

[pliant willow]

Toss duplicates whenever you can to free up space, always have an adrenaline ready

Not sure what else I can give lol it jus tkinda happened for me

[hybrid wolf]

same

[steel ridge]

i think that in multiplayer he should add an grenade as item thats super rare and can kill a player instantly but it would be the only item you get

[idle venture]

That sounds very fun and engaging.

A "you don't get to play" button.

[spare gust]

why does the dealer sometimes use a beer on a shell he knew was a blank

[idle venture]

He always or almost always does that. Might be an oversight, or maybe that behavior was kept so that Dealer clears his inventory of beers quicker.

He also likes the flavor, apparently.

So maybe he's just using the blank as an excuse to drink another can.

[spare gust]

if you get 8 beers as your items you immediately win

[steel ridge]

yeah kinda like that

[steel ridge]

hes alcoholic dont judge him

[idle venture]

The secret strategy government doesn't want you to know about.

[steel ridge]

kinda like a skip card from uno

[idle venture]

It probably won't work well. I mean, Uno's skip card doesn't ruin a whole round for the player.

[steel ridge]

and its a slap in the face too if you got good items and the noob pulls a rare grenade

[steel ridge]

not a "whole" round just one of the 3 rounds

[idle venture]

This assumes that multiplayer is structured like the normal game in terms of round duration and how the overall winner is determined.

Which it might not be.

[steel ridge]

tru

[idle venture]

The whole "up to 4 players" format is a mystery.

[steel ridge]

if its structured like now this could work

[steel ridge]

i wish they released the 1v1 sooner just normal game with people you play against and some new animations

4 players yeah very cool but it takes very long

[idle venture]

Ye, 1v1 is actually pretty straightforward to balance.

It's been modded before, though the mod hasn't gained a ton of traction, from what I've seen.

[spare gust]

the grenade should deal 3 damage and have a 25% to hit any opponent but 50% to the one who threw it

[steel ridge]

i think he should have published 1v1 sooner bc its faster to code and you dont have to animate new shi

[spare gust]

you throw the grenade by beyblading it which is why it doesnt hit everybody

[idle venture]

Eh, it's alright, Mike should make what he's interested in making. Having up to 4 players certainly is an interesting experiment.

[steel ridge]

whats with the other 25% ??

[spare gust]

they just dont get hit

only one player does

if you want a item that hits multiple people, additional barrel which makes the shotgun a double barrel

[steel ridge]

i only wish that i can also play with the classy buckshot roulette style 1v1

[idle venture]

I'm satisfied right now because I get to play a tabletop version of the 1v1 multiplayer with my friends.
But yea, still excited for the official version. Good thing is that 1v1 will still be an option in the official mode.

Will miss the classic table for two, though.

I assume the table doesn't change depending on the amount of players in the multiplayer mode.

[steel ridge]

i hope that we will still get classic table for 1v1

[idle venture]

Maybe as a clientside mod.

[steel ridge]

but we will get atleast 2 new items thats cool

[idle venture]

Ye, new items will be fun.

[steel ridge]

nah he got over 2mio copies sold he gotta code like the dealer stands right behind him

[idle venture]

Suffering from success.

[steel ridge]

tru

[idle venture]

Wonder if I can replicate some of that functionality in real life. I have a feeling at least one of the items will be exclusive to situations with 3+ players.

[steel ridge]

we got some black recorder maybe it will make a move of a player or yourself rewind or something and a white remote

that would be neat

[idle venture]

Undoing an action in some way is an interesting thought.

[steel ridge]

yeah like a second chance

[jolly kraken]

I can only imagine the amount of shrapnel in you when you finish

[steel ridge]

Proteins

[jolly kraken]

What

Is the buckshot organic?

[idle venture]

100% natural.

[jolly kraken]

Explain

[idle venture]

Finest ingredients.

[jolly kraken]

Welp thats good enough for me

[idle venture]

The cut ending where you look at yourself in the rear-view mirror before driving away and find out there's only a bloody stump left where your head used to be is probably the best representation of it.

[jolly kraken]

Yeah I was thinking that would be the outcome to shotgun blasts to the noggin

[idle venture]

But I guess the current ending implies that the game is somehow non-lethal. Either that, or whatever power is keeping the player alive is fading slowly.

We do have wacky stuff like the Quantum State Inverter, though, so maybe the "defibrillator" straight up rewinds the moment of the shot.

[jolly kraken]

Interesting

[idle venture]

Dealer does mention blood transfusions and the Doctor still has to zap you with normal-looking defibs in the bathroom after you pass out on the final shot, so I suppose some long-term damage is still being done to you.

[lofty wharf]

How would you replicate the phone item in a tabletop setting? Would be really hard for the opponent to confirm youre looking at the right shell without the opponent knowing which shell youre looking at

[idle venture]

We have a third person as the dealer, who has no stakes in the game and simply oversees the process.
He loads the shotgun, he shuffles the deck of item cards, and he sends the phone message when a Burner Phone card is played.

[hybrid wolf]

it's a bug that was supposed to be fixed, but it's only half fixed
in theory the dealer shouldn't use a beer after it knows the shell

in practice it's only blocked when it knows the shell is live

it also still doesn't reset its "I know the shell" flag, so it thinks the next shell is blank no matter what

the full bug is purposefully kept as a legacy feature in the campaign AI tho

[hybrid wolf]

that's actually very possible, otherwise it would rarely use beers when it has mags

the fact it thinks the next is blank is definitely not intended tho lol

[idle venture]

Oh, yea, that is pretty bad.

[hybrid wolf]

more like Exodia

[steel ridge]

tf is that

[hybrid wolf]

in Yu-Gi-Oh there's a monster that can be summoned with 5 body part cards, called Exodia

if you summon it you win
no exception

let me tell you now: mechanics like that are so bad, they're banned in most tournaments

it's a great meme, but it's not fun to actually play with

[idle venture]

Yep.

Especially when you don't even see it coming and can't counter it in any way by interrupting the opponent's setup. A kill which just happens on the first turn always sucks.

[lofty wharf]

Exodia in Tableturf

No one here plays Tableturf but idc

[hybrid wolf]

I would imagine 1v1 would be structures in a best of 5 format
but 4 player f4a is more likely to only be last man standing

[idle venture]

Ye.

[lofty wharf]

none of those actions except the phone would require a third person

[idle venture]

Loading a physical shotgun with shells without knowing which one you're putting inside is kinda tricky. But I also designed it around 3 people because it makes for a better party game. More friends can be involved in the process.

[lofty wharf]

oh damn i didnt think we'd be dealing with a real shotgun 😅

[hybrid wolf]

btw if you want more items, I keep my position that we have enough attack, heal, and intel items
we need more defense items

[idle venture]

It's airsoft. Hurts, but doesn't kill.

[lofty wharf]

temporary shield item that goes past max charges would go hard

[hybrid wolf]

the idea I had was a shield that lasts only for the next turn

so it's not like you use it as soon as possible, you need to weigh in the chances of actually get hit if you want to use it effectively

[idle venture]

That's an interesting counter to the handsaw.

Forces the opponent to delay their use of a handsaw, potentially meaning they'll miss the optimal turn to use it on.

[hybrid wolf]

exactly

[idle venture]

And I guess if you don't want the shield sitting in your inventory for some reason, there's never a bad time to just throw it out there. Unlike pills.

[hybrid wolf]

I don't think it should negate the handsaw tho, only absorb one hit out of the two

[idle venture]

Ah. Well, I guess that still works out.

[hybrid wolf]

that's up for debate

idk, maybe it should negate the handsaw

needs to be tested for balance

[idle venture]

Needs some testing. I'll actually think about adding it to my real life version. I've been trying to balance it for the past few sessions.

We turned the adrenaline into a card mimic instead of a card stealer.

Since otherwise its presence on the table was way too oppressive.

[pliant willow]

In an irl game I think a shield negating 1 charge of dmg would be a good balance
Nothing would happen on a normal shell but if its sawed youll still take 1 hit

[idle venture]

This is probably what I'll start with.

[hybrid wolf]

Interesting

[fossil thorn]

Heya, newbie here, i came to ask if anyone has ever tried going as many turns as possible without dying or killing the dealer on buckshot roulette
I saw there's an ongoing ARG as well

[idle venture]

Full House achievement sorta forces you to do that as you grind for items.

[lofty wharf]

i hope that change happens in multiplayer as well, i cant imagine adrenaline being very fun to play against in its current state

[hybrid wolf]

My proposition for the item of the shield : meth
Famously efficient “What do you mean I got shot ? I’m too high to care” in WW2

[fossil thorn]

But has anyone seen how far can you go? If at some point something happens if you're both at a standstill for a long time

[pliant willow]

It would just go until one or the other perishes

[idle venture]

Yea. It's less of a problem with more than 2 players around the table, as you don't know who will get their item stolen. But in a 1v1 you see it and immediately feel compelled to use all the items you have, limiting the strategy. And then the other player gets to keep the adrenaline for the next loadout, which makes the problem even worse.

[idle venture]

In real life there's always a concern of stretching out the rounds too much, so having a way to deal damage through the shield is probably good. It's more impactful than stretching out virtual rounds, since the game goes slower in general.

[hybrid wolf]

I’ve calculated it, mathematically it’s possible to play forever, with incredible healing luck, but the game throws too many live shells at you for it to actually be possible for more than 8 rounds

In campaign mode

[lofty wharf]

cant you beer away the live

[pliant willow]

Thats if you get a beer

[fossil thorn]

Or polarize it to a blank

[hybrid wolf]

You can, but that also involves luck

Basically to play forever you need 2 cigs and 2 beers for you and the dealer every turn
And to use the beers exactly on the lives
If you fail, you get one step closer to the end of the game

[lofty wharf]

they are talking about campaign mode

[fossil thorn]

True, that would need to be all or nothing

[hybrid wolf]

The game throws 5-3s at you forever after the scripted charges

So you need to balance 5 shots between you and the dealer

With a max of 8 items that can only be beers or cigs

[idle venture]

Double or Nothing makes things a lot more feasible in terms of going forever on one round, thanks to its loadout generation and extra items that can make a loadout safer to get through.

Handsaws are still terrible to get in that scenario, though.

Oh, also, the Dealer not being hell-bent on killing itself is a positive thing.

[hybrid wolf]

X)

You say that, it is determined to find the one live shell in 1-4s

[idle venture]

Very true.

Still safer than the constant coinflips.

[hybrid wolf]

Fair

That’s still an 80% chance of getting that shell to the face lol

Like actually that’s the number

[idle venture]

Yep. It's safer on more balanced loadouts, but yea, having one live and multiple blanks left puts the Dealer into a really bad position in DoN.

[idle venture]

By the way, the visual design of an item is something that does take a lot of thought. I feel like drugs are an easy way out. Not that it's not fitting, but a lot of items in BR are already based on drugs, and the items which aren't are usually more interesting to see.

Though the mechanism through which the substance is administered does make a big difference.

Like, the adrenaline may be kinda boring as a core concept, but it has that weird syringe with many needles, and provides a lot of audio and visual feedback when used. So it ends up being quite fun.

What I'm thinking about for the shield is something like an inhalational anesthetic mask, which you put on and keep on your face while the shield is active. With your vision getting slightly blurry while the mask is on, and all sounds getting more distant, distorted.

Keep it around your nose, with the mouth not covered, so you can still drink beer or smoke.

Hm, now that I think about it, it also synergizes with pills, if it blocks the damage you take.

[hybrid wolf]

well, the items that we have currently are actually very tame in comparison to like... drugs drugs, the hardest we have is adrenaline shots and expired medicine
I was thinking a redbull or monster or generic energy drink, but it would clash too much with the beer
but like for an item with a limited time effect, I would imagine more of a substance intake, rather than doing something similar to the weird rematerialization of the barrel end

[idle venture]

Yeah, that thought process does make sense.

I like the mask because of how physical it is. And it just straight up gets blasted into pieces when you get shot, cutting off your intake of the anesthetic.

[hybrid wolf]

I also thought of heroin, for the added horror aspect of the needle
but again, too close to the adrenaline

[idle venture]

Yep. Adrenaline has the scary needles covered.

[hybrid wolf]

actually... huh

like laughing gas

[idle venture]

Yeah. Except something with a stronger effect.

[hybrid wolf]

(oh it's plenty strong trust me)

but I get the idea

ooh ooh
maybe

that one anesthetic that doesn't actually puts you under or stops the pain at all

you just

forget

it would make the screen go white and skip the animation of the shell getting shot

you still know what was ejected with the color of the discarded shell

it would also make a tie-in with infineural

[idle venture]

Hm. That's an interesting one. Yea, I figured it was a reference to Infineural.

[hybrid wolf]

it is a real thing btw

it's fucked up

[idle venture]

It's usually an added effect of general anaesthesia, I think.

Kinda seen as desirable, I guess.

[hybrid wolf]

twilight anesthesia

[hybrid wolf]

sort of, but with twilight anesthesia you're fully aware during the process

like with open brain surgery

actually idk if you get any kind of anesthesia for that one

there's no pain receptors in the brain in itself so, it's not needed lol

[spring cosmos]

Brain surgery can have topical anesthetics for the skin and bone, but you can't have super strong stuff since it's important to make sure you still have proper cognition during, otherwise they might accidentally lobotomize you

[hybrid wolf]

yup

[idle venture]

Ah, right. I've heard a bit about twilight anesthesia. Fascinating topic.

[hybrid wolf]

but would you get a drug that stops you from making long term memories, is the question

[spring cosmos]

I mean, i don't know? I don't know all the ins and outs of every kind of brain surgery

[hybrid wolf]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spring cosmos]

Long term memory is a kind of cognition, and brain damage can cause amnesia, so it might be counterintuitive to stop someone forming memories during the process

[hybrid wolf]

fair

[spring cosmos]

But brain surgery might me minutes to a few hours, so it might be hard to judge when the short and long term memory switch depending on the length of the procedure

[idle venture]

Another follow-up thought - the mask actually allows your opponent to not worry about their own item usage at all, unless they can guarantee a point of damage with a saw/handcuffs and kill you.

Just shoot the masked player and save the good stuff for the next turn, when their damage shield is gone.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing, because this period of invulnerability affects the way in which both players interact with the loadout, both while the effect is active, and afterwards.

[true skiff]

kinda new ish here, is there ever gonna be a fully fleshed out storyline? honestly the lore of BR would be super cool to learn abt

[manic fox]

Not sure about original question, but if you wanna know more about the lore you should look into the ARG! Also, try out some of his other games. They're confirmed to be in the same universe. Unsorted Horror is where I'd recommend starting

[ember rose]

Heloo

[jolly kraken]

I am truly hyped for 4 player roulette

I kinda wanna play against other humans rather than the smelly dealer

[timber frigate]

jokes on you: youre gonna play against smelly humans!

[jolly kraken]

True

However humans like me are prone to stupid mistakes

[lofty wharf]

trust me, the dealer is even more prone to stupid mistakes

[steel ridge]

what do you think the remote will do

[idle venture]

Something remotely useful.

[steel ridge]

i hope we can use burner phone to summon the dealer behind one of the opponents and dealer shoots him

[raven delta]

I'm certain this has been talked about before but I think after multiplayer is done i think it would be cool if we got an expanded singleplayer

[lofty wharf]

[raven delta]

if anyone else played Inscryption back when it was a short game on Itch (https://dmullinsgames.itch.io/sacrifices-must-be-madeim) I'm imagining a similar expansion

[raven delta]

use the expired medicine it never fails

[lofty wharf]

2 max charge btw

[raven delta]

it never fails

the expired medicine is always the best option

becme expiredmedicine pilled

[vast belfry]

there is, for you to get that information I need your credit card and the 3 funny looking numbers in the back

[true skiff]

alright!

1236-1253-1776-9987

341

have fun!

[scenic flame]

@true skiff there are little tidbits of lore but nothing extraordinary

apparently all of mike's games are in the same world though, I've never played them

[pliant willow]

Ive only played BR so I have no idea how the other game's lore would fit in so I just do a buncha hc stuff :p

[true skiff]

I hope at some point there’s more (in game) lore around BR!! it’s a very aesthetically pleasing game and honestly more in game lore would be badass

[scenic flame]

here's what i know at the very least:
(spoilers, duh)
when does the game take place?
||August 21 1998 at nearly 2 in the morning, seen by the burner phone item in double or nothing mode||
where does the game take place?
||it may seem probable that it's in the united states due to the prize money being in us dollars, but the usd is a currency widely used across the world. still a pretty telling piece of information regardless||
how long has the dealer been doing this?
||it's never explicitly said but implied that he'd been doing it for a while, and also got so good at the game that he was able to challenge and defeat god in it. you get to see heaven in the bad ending of the normal mode and it's in disarray as well||
who is the dealer, anyway?
||again, not explicitly said. there are some conclusions you can draw from the previous answer and other theories but it's largely a mystery||
how does the dealer make a living?
||he sells the dead bodies of the people he wins against for profit, which is probably stated in the general release of liability||

[true skiff]

dealer def isn’t human

that’s all imma say

[pliant willow]

Undertale-esque world but on the surface frfr

[spring cosmos]

Based on the way the section of the post groups the remote in with the new table, and mentions both being made by the volta standard company, i think using the remote will rotate the entire table one rotation in the direction of play, switching your item loadout with the person next to you

[pliant willow]

Oo thatd be interesting

[spring cosmos]

I've always believed the dealer is an escaped Nevadean. They have a high skill in both weapons, and unusual technology, they have hands that don't connect to their body, they can be easily healed from incredibly damaging wounds, and they seem to be lacking several facial features

[steel ridge]

i would maybe say Balkan bc of the items with kinda slavic names and this brutalism style

[lament valve]

guys theres this cool game ive heard of called russian roulette

its like buckshot roulette but with a revolver

[idle venture]

That last part is not openly stated in the General Release document, assuming the template wasn't edited. Then again, it's very general and that's kind of the point.

The document basically just says "you may die, but I won't be held accountable for it". More of a formality than anything else.

Unless murder is legal in the world of Buckshot, the document is meaningless legally.

[lofty wharf]

wtf this channel keeps restreaming my run 😭 https://www.youtube.com/@b.HOR.k/streams

and the twitch too 😭

[civic halo]

yall i just finished my first double or nothing run!

[compact smelt]

let me guess? it was not double, but in fact nothing?

[civic halo]

well i should rephrase i just

i hate the enter key sending

anyway

i just BEAT double or nothing for the first time

only my second time playing

first run i absolutuly got destroyed

[bright depot]

does anyone have the badge for the trading cards by any chance?

[idle venture]

No, but you can always view them here if you want:
https://www.steamcardexchange.net/index.php?gamepage-appid-2835570

Steam badges don't come with any descriptions, if you were wondering.

[tawdry wadi]

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/040915/countries-use-us-dollar.asp

My 1st pick is that it's in USA
My 2nd pick is that it's in Ecuador
No 3rd pick

why do i think its ecuador (aside that they use usd)

is because i vividly remember being invited by a beer shop owner for a hidden game of russian roulette, i was like 17 at the time and he thought i was 25 or smth, my dad got pissed at him. thats the only other reason.

[scenic flame]

well, not just places that have it as an official currency, but many countries have usd on hand for international transactions

[normal galleon]

we know for a fact it's in Mike's version of Estonia

[tawdry wadi]

ESTONIA?

NOT FINLAND?

HOLY SHIT

[kind hemlock]

Yall know the buckshot roulette arg?

So basically

Maybe the direction of the money is binary or something

like 01010010010010

Or opposite

[pliant willow]

Weve been told theres nothing else to find in the game related to the arg

[hybrid wolf]

What about other games ?

[pliant willow]

Not entirely sure but people have looked ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[true skiff]

Honestly would be badass if one day it was just announced on Twitter “madness combat and BR take place in the same universe and the dealer is hanks bestie teehee”

[plucky timber]

well most of the arg are outside the game

so i dont think that will advance us

also get the kitten arg role and go to brainstorming

[frail crane]

Off topic asf but I thought yall would appreciate Dealer at a cat cafe (+plus new plushie I bought cause I have zero impulse control with cinnamoroll)

[pliant willow]

I need a Dealer plushie

[misty hollow]

WHERE IS OUR BETA TEST?

[vagrant socket]

Come on. Its not hard to just be patient.

[misty hollow]

ok sorry

[vagrant socket]

Hey, its okay. You are better than 90% of the people who ask that question just cause you said sorry lol

But hey, its ok. Its just going to come on when it comes out, yk?

[misty hollow]

aight

[outer oriole]

It takes place in "the space between" not in reality.

All hell has already broken loose by the time you start playing the game.

The document in the game doesn't state it literally, but yeah, according to Mike, the dead bodies are sold for profit.

[outer oriole]

The binary line is being explored privately by some people, it translates to " Vm"

[winter marten]

Is where buckshot roulete is discussed

[winter marten]

the dealer is adressed as IT by the guy that revives you if you lose round 1 and 2

also lacks humanoid shape

[true skiff]

is dealer ever even assigned a gender?? that sounds weird but

[winter marten]

thats actually a good question

[true skiff]

I mean I just think he’s a guy but now that u mention it

does bro really even have a gender

[winter marten]

i dont know

and i have no idea how that could be solved

[spring cosmos]

Dealer is probably beyond human conceptions of gender

[lost gulch]

he is prob a robot or if a creature then, he doesnt have a body

👍 👍

[lost gulch]

he IS a creature

This probably isn't relevant but,

poem has 9 lines
dante's nine circle of hell
Rita replied to the one who thought of it "smart kitten"
kittens or in matter of fact cats, have 9 lives and !cat is also written on the 15th button on the phone

poem lines - 9
dante's circle of hell - 9
cat's lives - 9

or 666 inverted

spooky

12 15 12 - LOL
12th button - #123
15th button - !cat

[lost gulch]

random

[lost gulch]

1010011101101
0101100010010
0100100011010
1011011100101
idk how to do the binary thing but here you go

[lost gulch]

these are only the
->->->
->->->
and
<-<-<-
<-<-<-
and their reversed 0 , 1
there could be 2 x 2 x 2 more ways to see it

[idle venture]

Referred to as "he" in the QnA post, probably for convenience. I don't think Dealer really has a gender, it's a floating ball with hands.

[worn flame]

Pacman, but with extra steps.

[lost gulch]

he doesn't have a gender, like you can image how the creatures reproduce but the dealer? bro is a ball with 2 mini floating balls

[lost gulch]

unless ita from his mou-

[idle venture]

That's my message gone.

Great.

All of this is allowed, but the phrase "biological s*x" is not.

Fucking great.

[outer oriole]

I doubt gender matters, it's ambiguous, all the people from Tartarus Engine were male anyways no? It's either one of them, or not, and gender hasn't mattered so far in any of the clue.

[idle venture]

Yeah, the concept of gender may be completely meaningless to the Dealer.

Also, is Dealer being related to those Tartarus Engine people the current running theory?

[outer oriole]

The last part of the ARG Wiki mentions this. I/They believe it has to do with presets, and potentially Buckshot is a preset as well:
https://www.arg-wiki.com/buckshot-roulette-arg/the-timeline

Bottom of page, Preset theory.

[idle venture]

I see.

It's an easy explanation, I guess. But still leaves space for an interesting overarching story.

[steel ridge]

tf are you nerds now discussing about

[idle venture]

The lore of who or what the Dealer really is.

[hybrid wolf]

TE takes place post 2009 tho ??

[idle venture]

And within it you can have simulations of settings that take place in the 90s.

[outer oriole]

lol who are you?

[outer oriole]

Anyways, yeah that's sort of the only other leads at this moment. Work's been done on the Cellphone "Pad" theory but nothing's popped up, or there was an error that needs to be corrected of some sort. I would just wait for now, until the next clue to be honest.

[hybrid wolf]

I mean, yeah it’s possible, but the amount of stuff that depends on dates makes it unlikely

[outer oriole]

The dates dont/do matter I think. So if each of the titles are a preset like is described in Tartarus Engine, then the dates only serve US the observer, to know the order of the game, where as the dates only refer to order that the player (owen?) experiences the presets.

[hybrid wolf]

I mean the ARG stuff

Stuff like «  remember august 28th »

And the date correlation with Carbon Steel

Too much info relies on time for it to be dismissed as a random simulation setting

Because then you need to answer the question of why this stimulation has anything to do with that exact date

[outer oriole]

The date only refers to carbon steel, which means there's a link between carbon steel and buckshot, and not the other ones in a direct manner.

[chrome holly]

does anyone know the release for multiplayer?

[outer oriole]

Time/dates only refer to the amount of time passed within the simulations. The truth is, no time has passed whatsoever for owen in "base reality". The dates only serve as a way to observe home much time the player has experienced in dilated time (refer to infineural for that lesson). It all happens instantaneously

[outer oriole]

When it's ready, it's ready. This month? 🤞

[chrome holly]

hmm ok

[outer oriole]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2835570/view/4276817570975737568

[chrome holly]

also, i've seen that i only get the most common items, no phones or the book thing etc, why is that?

oh now, when i got the pills i get more items

[hybrid wolf]

That doesn’t make sense
Like I understand what you’re saying, it just doesn’t fit with what we see

[pliant willow]

Well then its because you were always playing on story mode then

Double or Nothing mode has the other items

[idle venture]

Normal mode is basically one big tutorial where Dealer makes less intelligent choices, loadouts are less balanced in terms of the live-to-blank ratio, and some of the items are missing.

[outer oriole]

Keep playing the games, you'll get there eventually.

[toxic jay]

Before multiplayer got announced, I saw gameplay of it on YouTube and thought "this is genius", so I made it into a card game to play with friends, then I turned said card game into a web game.

I'm proud to report that this game made into multiplayer (I did add some custom items) is a complete blast.

Would highly recommend

Hopefully re-creating the game from scratch doesn't count as piracy now that I think about it

But anyways, the card game version added two items: Rebalancer, and Quickshot. Since ammo counts are determined by two dice rolls (1-6 blank rounds and 1-6 live rounds), Rebalancer lets players add more rounds (they choose live or blank, then you roll and add that) before the round starts if they want to mix things up, or mid round if they want to stack the odds in their favor. Quickshot means that if a players turn would've ended from an action (shooting themselves with a live or anyone else with anything), it won't (so you can shoot someone else with a blank and take another shot)

Also the card version is super easy: just take a deck, put all cards 7 and up (including aces) into a pile, and then sort 2-6 by color (red is dead, black is blank). Ace is skip, king is double damage, queen is chamber check, jack is rebalance, 10 is adrenaline, 9 is steal (and use instantly), 8 is extra life, and 7 is quickshot. Then just roll the dice, make a stack of those black and red cards, shuffle it up, and go.

I use some generic plastic chips to keep track of lives, but you can use paper too, then it's just a deck of cards and a single dice and you're golden (adrenaline is just rolling an odd: +1, even: -1)

What's amazing is that converting it to cards really requires no extra balancing. It's such a lovely mix of strategy and luck and I haven't played it with anyone who didn't like it (though they were confused at first, they catch on really quickly), and things get really advanced if people keep track of counts.

I cheated for the web version though and added a game log, since assuming players are always watching the screen isn't possible. The web version does allow for theoretically infinite players though.

I also forgot to mention I made it so if you kill someone, you get their items, and if you kill someone and they're skipped, that skip also goes to you (so you can skip yourself as a kind of insurance)

Looking at the history of this server, I am definitely not the only person to have the idea to make this into a card game, but I guess there's my experience anyways

[pliant willow]

Its fun seeing the different ways people do it

[toxic jay]

Oh, and another thing I forgot: since rebalancing doesn't really have a limit, I deal out like 2 items to each player if a single round goes on for long enough

I've found if there are no items for too long, the game gets super stale

And taking away items when the chamber gets emptied also encourages players to use their items while they can.

For the web version, I did artificially limit the chamber size

So if you want to try that multiplayer prototype out with the new items, I can send that link out (I don't see a rule against "advertising", but I'll wait anyways)

Actually, screw it: here's a link to the source code instead (points to the Rebalancer code). You can find the actual game if you really want from there:
https://github.com/DoubleF3lix/LiveOrLive-Server/blob/master/Server.cs#L338

I may experiment with letting players have up to 8 items and not taking items away at the end of a round though, haven't tried that with cards

[idle venture]

Huh. There's a surprising amount of Buckshot card games.

Each developed pretty much entirely independently, from what I could tell. It really is fun to see the different takes on it.

[toxic jay]

I also didn't add it to the web game, but after a certain amount of rounds, +1 life cards just become double damage cards and you let the carnage reign

I also start each player with 5 lives unconditionally with no life cap though or concept of "rounds"

[idle venture]

Hah, nice.

[toxic jay]

I once had a game where a player got 3 extra lives in the first round and so they only had 1 item to boot (I give every player 4 when a new round begins) but they started off with 8 lives lol

[idle venture]

Wild.

[toxic jay]

And since max lives are immediately applied on being dealt, I think it keeps things interesting with several players (we've done up to 5 so far)

Though I imagine the concept of max lives and actual rounds with smaller chamber sizes works better for 1v1

I should probably write out a proper set of "how-to" for this

[idle venture]

Starting with high max health does make sense. I also do something similar, where the starting amount of charges is between 3 and 5, and no handsaws are distributed on the first loadout, to avoid instant kills.

My variation is a pure 1v1.

Being suitable for more than 2 players definitely makes your version stand out among the rest.

[idle venture]

Also, yea, writing down all the rules in a comprehensive manner is rough. I only got around to it last week, despite running sessions for quite a while.

[toxic jay]

I think the 1v1 concept is genius and gives a lot more room for strategy with shell counting and what not, but opening it up to 2+ players is its own type of fun

There's something so satisfying about stealing another player's skip item, using it on themselves, then deploying a chamber check followed by a double damage and tieing up the score

Or correctly shooting yourself twice in a row then unleashing a live round on someone else

I call my version "Live or Live" just because and it does play like it's own game, but it's still a shameless ripoff at its core that's fun in its own way

But to close, it takes some time for players to warm up to it, because they always ask "why ever shoot yourself then?", but once the concept clicks, it's always a blast (literally)

[idle venture]

Yee. Having a bunch of players participating at once makes it a great party game, I imagine.

[toxic jay]

I do want to try having 6+ players, but my record is 5 and it still went well

One thing I need to consider is that it's possible to pull a chamber of only 2 rounds, and that's kind of useless with 4 players

Luckily, turn order stays the same through rounds (so if you shoot yourself with a blank to end the round, you get to go first in the new one), and the Rebalancer helps too

Players can go "Ehhhh, that chamber sucks" and can slap down a dice and go "alright, add more blanks"

[idle venture]

Fun.

Yea, I guess the system works well.

Going higher in terms of the player count might make it so that people have to wait for too long to get to their turn. But I imagine the interactions between other players are still fun to observe.

[toxic jay]

Yea, theoretically infinite doesn't mean making it super high is wise

I imagine 8+ is about where it starts getting boring for other players

[idle venture]

It's a high limit, all things considered.

In my implementation I was mostly chasing the atmosphere, trying to stick as close to the original experience as I reasonably could. The novelty of it all doesn't wear off easily, even if at its core it's still a simple game which could've been done with cards alone. The downside is that rounds always take a while.

[modest turret]

found this randomly on a RoN mod page

[hybrid wolf]

It’s not piracy, but there might be some copyright infringements

[outer oriole]

eh, fan-games are a thing for sure, as long as they're not looking to profit off of it , why not?

[outer oriole]

Sounds cool, why don't you make it? I think I saw a fanproject that had already done this a month or two ago, it looked interesting

[toxic jay]

Well the card game already exists, it's just played with standard playing cards, and the web game is done too (barring some UI changes and QOL)

https://doublef3lix.github.io/LiveOrLive-Client/

[hybrid wolf]

that's up to the boss to decide

but I don't think there would be issues

[toxic jay]

And even then, beyond my admission, proving it's a rip off and not just "someone else had an idea for russian roulette" is pretty hard

[hybrid wolf]

not really, russian roulette games rarely have items like here, and their uses are very similar
you can claim coverging ideas, but that's flimsy at best

[outer oriole]

I mean it's 100% up to the Critical Reflex to take it down or not, but as long as you're not SELLING the game, I could see it as just a fangame. Don't use any assets from the game, and try to stay away from monitizing it/asking for donations; It's not like Critcal Reflex is in the business of shutting down creative/inspired projects

[hybrid wolf]

go say that to Nintendo lmao

[toxic jay]

Yea but historically, proving that two very similar concepts is direct copyright infringement is VERY hard

Like imagine if Valve sued Blizzard for making a class based shooter

[outer oriole]

Man, the bygone are the days of the things we used to see on Newgrounds

[toxic jay]

Like there's no art in here to steal; it's literally just the concept that's the same

And proving deliberate infringement (beyond what I've said here) is not easy or cheap

[outer oriole]

Nintendo is a Japanese company, and in Japan they have authority rights to remove anything on the internet they don't want to see.

[toxic jay]

And I threw it together in 2 months while working full-time so it's not like it's worth their time lol

[outer oriole]

I'm sure CR would benefit from supporting fan made community games.

Here's an idea, post a video of you playing it and send it to Mike via Twitter or something, before posting it online for anyone to play

maybe take down the github for now until you've got the A-Okay from him? He might be thrilled to see it

[hybrid wolf]

tbh I prefer copyleft anyway

yes it's a real thing

[outer oriole]

whats that?

[hybrid wolf]

basically copyright is a way to protect your creation from anyone copying it

copyleft is the opposite phylosophy

you explicitly allow people to use your creations within specific settings

the catch is that if you use something with copyleft, you are legally obligated to put your product using it under the same copyleft requirements

there are multiple options, I tend to gravitate towards
keep it consistent with the original material, don't make money off of it, otherwise you're free to do what you want

SCP is under copyleft

[outer oriole]

Reminds me of the Silo series. At least I think it was Silo, they allowed creators to make works within their universe so long as it stayed within certain criteria. Would that follow under Copy Left?

[hybrid wolf]

that's absolutely copyleft

[outer oriole]

What a wonderful idea. What was SCP inspired by, just creepy pastas in general?

[hybrid wolf]

yeah

just a couple of people making up weird shit

and eventually they decided "you know what, as long as everyone keeps the story self consistent, why not make it publically expandable ?"

[toxic jay]

TBH, if the dev decides to sue me, that's horrible PR for an indie game

Plus he's welcome to make my web game obsolete

[hybrid wolf]

yeah nobody will sue

absolute worst case scenario it'll be handled outside of court

[toxic jay]

But for now, it's a nice demo (and a good learning experience for me) of what this game looks like with multiplayer, and it provides a playground for me to add whatever the heck I want

[outer oriole]

yeah but their right to remove it altogether from the get go, which arguable would be worse than being sued before it even lifted off the ground at all

[toxic jay]

So if people wanna try it out, they can

[toxic jay]

Again, they'd have to prove stuff though

[outer oriole]

I saw you post it in the fan channel, but you should really make a video too 🙂

[toxic jay]

How much you can really copyright the idea of russian roulette, which has been around for centuries, is also up in the air

Yea a video would probably be nice, maybe with a guide of how to play the card game version

But I gotta do some UI overhauls too. The game log is not it right now lol

[outer oriole]

lol for sure, just checked it out. I can see you getting into trouble using the game's assets, but it's an okay placeholder for you personally, I would probably refrain from making it publicly available atm

[toxic jay]

Game assets?

I don't use any game assets... or really any assets lol

[outer oriole]

The images you are using

[toxic jay]

What images?

Like the airplane in the send button?

[outer oriole]

oh my mistake! I thought you were the one who posted that other one in the fan creation corner

You are not!

[toxic jay]

Oh no lol

Yea mine is the most barebones UI possible

[outer oriole]

I'm SO sure I saw a fleshed out one with custom UI and animations, and they hand-drew everything too, I can't for the life of me remember where that one went.

[toxic jay]

Dang, I was not the first to it

Oh well

[outer oriole]

Yeah can't find it either personally, I would love to work on a card game project myself but someone's already doing one for this one

[idle venture]

You're still free to make your version. No two implementations will be entirely the same.

Like how there are multiple different versions of real life Inscryption and each one brings something unique to the table.

These things are usually made for small friend groups anyways, so there's no point in trying to set a universal standard for how a tabletop Buckshot Roulette has to be played.

But if there is a universal standard, we have to make sure it's played with a physical shotgun.

[cosmic spade]

A card game is pretty easy just write which card is which power up and have 2 dice for live and blanks

Have a randomly shuffled deck and take x red cards (live) and x black cards (blank)

Shuffle them and then you're ready

Also have an item deck and give 2 or more on each turn

You decide which card is what item

[lofty wharf]

Its not super faithful to the original mechanics of the game though

for the shells its a pretty easy solution though, just roll a 7-sided dice

[hybrid wolf]

Even with a standard, people have house rules
I’ve never met anyone play monopoly or uno RAW

(Monopoly RAW isn’t that bad actually, once you know how to haggle)

The only change I would make to the dice thing is using 2d4 if you want to be closer to the game

[lofty wharf]

2d4? huh

[idle venture]

D7 makes the most sense, if you follow the Double or Nothing rules, which I did.

You roll for the total number of shells, from 2 to 8.

[hybrid wolf]

And if you want a game with no game master, use the 2d4 as an active counter, and roll 1d8, 1d6, 1d4, or 1d2 (depending on how many shells are left)
And if the number is above the number of blanks, it’s a live
If it’s above the number of total shells just reroll

[idle venture]

Right, without a GM it gets trickier.

[hybrid wolf]

It’s actually not that bad
Items are randomized by the deck, shells are randomized by the dice

It works out

[idle venture]

Ye.

[hybrid wolf]

Like you start a round
You get 1d4+1 items
You roll the shells and get 2 blank and 3 live
You try to shoot your opponent, roll 1d6, you get a 1, it’s a blank
Decrease the blank counter by 1

[lofty wharf]

you could have the shells be represented by a deck, then you just draw the top card instead of rolling the a dice when shooting

[idle venture]

Shell deck does work too.

[hybrid wolf]

Phones and mags make you do a private roll that you put aside and reveal afterwards

[hybrid wolf]

True

[lofty wharf]

mags you just look at the top card

[idle venture]

Speaking of cards, these have been wonderful. I particularly like the charges, as with two-sided cards, you always know your max health, unlike in the original game.

[hybrid wolf]

I’m just a dice goblin

And it makes less things to print

[idle venture]

Dice are nice. The excitement of a roll is fun.

[hybrid wolf]

Right ?

My only concern is keeping mag and phones fair

Private rolls are easily cheated

[idle venture]

Yep. Without a GM you have to rely on both players playing in a fair way.

[hybrid wolf]

Best solution I have for mag is a dice tower

But even then

[idle venture]

It's okay to have two variations. One for perfect conditions, when a third person is available, and one for two people, where you both simply agree to not try and cheat in order to keep the game fun.

[hybrid wolf]

Yeah

Keeping the phone counter up to date would also be a nightmare lol

You need to decrease the position die every turn and the shell die every blank shot

Bleh

[idle venture]

It is a nightmare. Implementing the phone is the stage at which I went "fuck it, I'm writing an assistant app for this", because I didn't want to drive the Dealer/GM insane.

Later a friend of mine made a mobile-compatible UI for it.
https://alexglan.github.io/buckshot-roulette-ui/

[hybrid wolf]

I guess it works, but I’m not a fan of board games that force you to download an app yk
I get it when replayability relies on hidden procedural generation, but other than that it’s a slog

[idle venture]

Ye, I totally get that. Someone going for an easy to set up board game anyone can play shouldn't be relying on apps.

What I'm making is a very specific experience which isn't necessarily easy to reproduce. I do wonder if there's some approach to the burner phone which'd simplify its implementation in a game played only with cards and dice.

[hybrid wolf]

More like a quality of life tool than a requirement

I guess

I could also just change how the phone works

[idle venture]

I suppose. We have done one session with manual tracking and the problem was that it's too slow.

[idle venture]

Also, yes, that's what I'm thinking. A slight change in functionality could make tracking a lot easier.

[hybrid wolf]

Instead of the future telling you the shell, you call the past to make sure your choice is set in

So it would be a joker

You get to decide what the shell is

It’s not that different from a mag+inv combo

[idle venture]

Hm. Like, decide on the polarity of a future shell, which removes the need to check what it is?

[hybrid wolf]

Exactly

[idle venture]

I think for the sake of not messing with shell tracking for the entire game afterwards, when you get to that shell, both its past and its current identity should be revealed.

[lofty wharf]

if were going with the shell deck, you can just make it so the other person can know which shell you look at. you roll a dice to see which card you look at, then the opponent can see that youre looking at the right card

[idle venture]

That's an option too.

[hybrid wolf]

Yeah but we’re implementing it without cards
They’re just two different games at this point

[idle venture]

Yeah.

[lofty wharf]

youre already using cards for items no? i dont really see the point

[hybrid wolf]

I like dice

And printing is expensive

[idle venture]

There are three variations in existence, pretty much. Dice-based shells, card-based shells, and my unhinged airsoft shotgun variation.

[hybrid wolf]

Lmao

[idle venture]

The fact that it works is a miracle.

[hybrid wolf]

How tho

How do you make a blank

[idle venture]

It's a very particular shotgun model, which uses "shotshell magazines". Red shells are loaded with BBs. Black ones have nothing in them.

[hybrid wolf]

Huh

[idle venture]

They're loaded into the gun one at a time, and replaced by the dealer after each shot, according to the generated order.

[hybrid wolf]

Not sure shooting at yourself point blank is really safe tho

[idle venture]

Protective equipment is essential. Also, I don't let my players shoot themselves. If you choose to shoot yourself, the dealer grabs the shotgun and fires it at you, to maintain a safe-ish distance.

[lofty wharf]

have a few defibrilators in hand

[idle venture]

So true.

I actually have the rules here, written in a format which parodies legal documents.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S7gq8cMeVZa5CfaPXGzTVv27lZwE9xLIFmseMiwhDaI/edit?usp=sharing

[hybrid wolf]

I’ll stick with dice and a nerf gun lol

[idle venture]

Yep, it's Nerf or nothing for people not willing to take three BBs into the chest.

[hybrid wolf]

But yeah the phone is… urgh
You either keep track
Or you make a prediction, but it might not follow with the number of shells left
Or you straight up say « I have a get out of jail free card, you’re getting shot », but it’s too powerful

Or make something completely different

[idle venture]

The third option really is bad for the gameplay.

[hybrid wolf]

If there’s only 2 in the whole deck it might be fine but even then

[idle venture]

It feels cheesy.

[hybrid wolf]

Yeah

What else could the phone do then

It needs to give one player information on the future

Ooor you roll the position publically, and the player gets to decide then

Hn

[lofty wharf]

btw for item rates and limits to be similar to the game, you'd need a seperate stack of items per player that correspond to the item limits, for example 1 phone and 3 handsaws. Then you take one of each item, shuffle the pile, and then draw one card from that pile. If you haven't reached the limit for that item you pulled, you put another card of that item into the pile for your next item pull

[idle venture]

The way we do it is if a player pulls a second duplicate of an item, they put it aside and pull another card to replace it. And the item deck is shuffled between loadouts.

So the deck isn't strictly controlled, but the cards you're allowed to keep are.

[hybrid wolf]

Yeah that’s actually not bad
Player with the phone rolls the position of the shell
The roll is public
Once that shell comes up, if it’s the same players turn, they just get to decide
If it’s the opponent’s turn, they write down what shell they want it to be, and then the opponent has to play their turn playing mind games and hoping to get it right

[idle venture]

Something like that, yeah. It can work.

Publicly visible shell number, and a hidden new polarity. After the shot both the shell's old polarity and the new one are revealed.

[hybrid wolf]

Eh ?

[outer oriole]

I dont click links, SS it please 🙏 Interested in seeing the rules

[idle venture]

It's a Google doc link and it's too long to screenshot.

I can, it's just a hassle.

Hold on.

[hybrid wolf]

I’m not a fan of making a long shot prediction because it can end up in a situation where there’s only one type of shell left

[idle venture]

No, I'm agreeing with the rules you came up with, I'm just saying you gotta let players know what the shell used to be originally, after the shot, else they can no longer track the rest of the loadout.

[hybrid wolf]

Huh ?

Oh no it’s not changing the polarity

It’s calling the past to ensure the polarity of it as it is getting loaded in

So if there’s only blanks left, tough luck, it’s a blank

[idle venture]

Ah. I see. Yea, okay, this makes sense. You still know the numbers of blanks and lives after the shot for certain.

[hybrid wolf]

Yup

[idle venture]

Yea, that works.

Pretty cool.

[outer oriole]

Im confused, is everything drawn from the same deck?

[idle venture]

Both players currently draw items from the same deck.

Used items are set aside and shuffled back into the deck between loadouts.

[outer oriole]

Fine with that, are there dupes in the item deck, how many cards in there?

Also how many players is this game made to play with?

What's a loadout? Is that the live shell vs blank count?

[idle venture]

Four of every item, with the exception of expired medicine, which there are only two of. And you can only keep two copies of the same item on you at a time. (For this purpose cigarettes and pills are counted as the same item, both being healing items.) I still need to refine the document to make these things clear.
The game is made for 3 people - 2 players and a dealer, who oversees the process.
A loadout is a set of live and blank shells, as well as their predetermined order, known only to the dealer.

[outer oriole]

I think the 3 player thing wont work.

Make it minimum 2 to 4 players max. Because there is no rule set for a Dealer to have any unique qualities, it seems strange to have them be a player.

[idle venture]

I've been playing this for long enough to know what works and what doesn't. The dealer isn't technically a player, as they have no stakes in the game. They only serve to streamline the process and eliminate the possibility of either of the two actual players cheating.

[outer oriole]

Idea for a "dealer zone" to act as the middle of the table for all players.

This could include a "shell deck" to keep things randomly articulating without having to have a 3rd player who isnt playing the game.

The shell deck can be filled with blanks, and at the beginning of game, a player rolla 1x D6 to add a fixed number of live rounds to be added to the deck.

Then the "damage phase" is effectively determined by whats on top of the deck instead.

Burner phone could randomly reveal from the top of the deck randomly by rolling 1x D6 to reveal how many cards from the top you see. Ex: I roll a 4, set, and first 3 cards are counted and set aside, and you can see the fourth 'shell'. (More dice roll shenanigans which I also love).

Expired medicine could be a dice roll too, have an "Even or Odds" mechanic where you choose one, and if you get it, you either gain or lose the charge.

Handcuff reads strangely to me because 'Loadout' isnt clearly defined, but if the loadout is the shell count, I would rename Loadout to something like 'chamber' or just refer to the shell deck like in my idea. Loadout is a confusing phrase IMO and could be confused for the active item set (which could actually be called loadout, but I understand the game reference).

Yeah honestly its a good start, sort of want to make my own game with a rule set and new items now, I'm a big TCG nerd/frog and love when video game mechanics can be translated to table top

Lord I really want to make a Buckshot TTG/TCG game now.

[idle venture]

Sure. Fun ideas. You can go for it too, it's cool to see different executions. I use the term Loadout because the original game uses it. Figured it'd be easily recognizable.

Or maybe it's a community term which is extremely common, now that I think about it. People call sets of shells loadouts. Dealer in the game says "more items before every load", which is where it comes from.

And yea, as discussed earlier in this chat, dealer as a role can be eliminated in a cards-only setting. It's just that using a physical shotgun complicates things. Allowing the two players to focus on playing the game and having the dealer handle all the reloading was a good enough reason to include a third person.

[lofty wharf]

The patch notes for 1.2.1 call loadouts rounds

Hand saws will no longer be distributed in the first round if the starting health is 2.

also calls charges health lol

[idle venture]

If a loadout is called a "round", then what'd the actual round be called? Like, the period between determining max health and one of the players dying. I think "loadout, round, match" nomenclature is good.

Patch notes aren't concerned with this sort of consistency, I guess.

[lofty wharf]

u forgot gauntlet in there

[idle venture]

What is that term used for?

[lofty wharf]

a set of 3 rounds

[idle venture]

Ah. I call them matches, but gauntlet is good too.

[outer oriole]

Shell.

[idle venture]

Very clever. That's not what I meant.

[outer oriole]

Gauntlet could apply to either 3 or endless. Maybe those are 2 gametypes? With multiplayer coming out, that would be a LOONG game

[ember rose]

Hello

[outer oriole]

How many items are being distributed each round? Each turn?

[ember rose]

Ah, working on a board game, or the like?

[idle venture]

Discussing an existing one, tossing around ideas for different variations.

[ember rose]

I might be able to provide some input for anything you’re struggling to narrow down

[idle venture]

Every time a new set of shells is generated, players get 2-4 items, in the current version. I'm still playing around with these numbers.

[ember rose]

Is it played with cards?

[idle venture]

Yes. Also an airsoft shotgun.

[outer oriole]

100% glad the community thinks like this, I support TCGs and would LOVE for a Buckshot TCG to be made. It's something I'd play at my shop

[ember rose]

Ah, an actual gun, neat

[idle venture]

The full experience.

[outer oriole]

Nerf gun could get people into legal trouble at the shop

Maybe not if they sign a contract

[idle venture]

I did print the waivers with some adjustments.

[ember rose]

These are really damn cool actually

[idle venture]

Thanks. Did the designs for these myself.

Here's an old photo from the first day we played the game. The dingy basement club is under construction currently, for full immersion.

[outer oriole]

I think its pretty cool too haha

[cosmic heron]

ooo

[ember rose]

The gun idea is good for the immersion

If you wanted a variant with just cards, you could obviously just make a deck of shells that you shuffle at the beginning of the round

[idle venture]

Ye. A deck of shells would work perfectly fine.

[outer oriole]

The "charge" cards could be double faced, to flip into the "damaged" version on the backside

[idle venture]

They are.

[outer oriole]

Thats what I suggested it works to me. Without the shotgun, the deck. And it removes the need for a third player to proxy as "the dealer"

[idle venture]

The two-sided charge cards were a great addition, since you always know your max health this way.

[ember rose]

Dopeee

If you wanted to, having 2 separate item decks for each player might be an idea

[idle venture]

I'm considering it. Need to run more sessions to see if having one common deck actually causes any issues. So far it didn't seem to make things worse.

It's the kind of problems you discover by playing the game a lot.

People I've been playing with have been loving it so far. Can't wait to actually have the "club" fully renovated, since the basement's acoustics and overall atmosphere will contribute to the game a lot.

[outer oriole]

Yup 2 decks, shell deck and item deck imo is the best way to go

[hybrid wolf]

So much ink

[hybrid wolf]

Actually I think I have a little rework on my plan for the phone

The moment you use the phone and you know which shell will be influenced, you write down what it will be and place it face down in plain view under the die

I think that mimics the original intent better

[idle venture]

Hm. So you mentioned that it effecively swaps places with another shell in the current loadout, keeping the total count the same. Maybe you should clarify which shell is used for that swap?

Or am I thinking about it wrong again?

Say we have LBLBL.
You used the phone, got position 4, and you want it to be live. Which of the three lives swaps places with the blank in the fourth position and can it really be tracked?

I guess the live that's the closest to the end of the loadout would be swapped, so after shooting the fourth shell, you say that no more lives are left?

[hybrid wolf]

yeah you're thinking wrong
it's really just
if there's at least one live and one blank at that point in time, what's on the paper decides the shot instead of a roll

[idle venture]

Ah. Right. No predetermined order of shells is at play here.

[hybrid wolf]

yeah, the varying chance of the shell is determined by the roll threshold being updated with the shell counters

nothing is predetermined

it's pure luck adrenaline

you roll good, you shoot good

so at the start you determined there's 3 lives and 2 blanks in play
so if you roll a 1 or 2, you shoot a blank
if you roll a 3, 4, or 5, you shoot a live

which is why in a system like this, the phone needs a change

because for it to actually be predetermined, you need to roll it in advance and keep the roll hidden, and keep it updated with the current counters

like

it's a mess

that's why I'm changing it to be a long shot player choice

so you need to be confident of who will get the shell, and how it'll be used

[idle venture]

Yeah, this is a good change for a simplified loadout system.

[hybrid wolf]

I also feel like it adds tension

[hybrid wolf]

The threat of the countdown, the mind game of predicting what’s written, the race of getting that shell specifically

[toxic jay]

My friend actually had a pump/shell airsoft shotgun that we tried to play LoL with, but it can only hold one shell so it got tedious and unfun

[median hamlet]

OHHH MY GOD THAT IS SO COOL

[idle venture]

That's a tough one, you really will need some quantum state manipulation.

Cool gun, though.

[hybrid wolf]

Have the shells be full on one side and empty on the other and reverse them

[shy garden]

OH MY FUCKING GOD I WANT THAT RN

[lofty wharf]

i wanna hear some thoughts about this scenario
2L3B
both player and dealer at 2 charges, 2 is max charge
player has handcuffs + cigarettes
dealer has handcuffs

What is the best thing to do here? I'm thinking that maybe using cuffs and shooting yourself twice (or until you hit a live) is just the best option because you are guaranteed to survive the loadout

[pliant willow]

Id use cuffs then shoot him because if you just shoot yourself you could exhaust 2 blanks and leave the lives for him, or end up hitting a live on the second one and leave yourself with 1 hp and unused cigs

[lofty wharf]

you can use cigs after shooting yourself

[idle venture]

^

Since the Dealer is handcuffed.

I'd probably go handcuffs and shoot myself. Either until I take the first live to the face and heal it off, or until only one blank and two lives are left. In which case the Dealer is guaranteed to take at least one damage and has no way to kill me.

(I have not calculated any probabilities, I'm choosing this strategy purely based on vibes.)

Worst-case scenario, I hit the first live on myself early and the Dealer ends up shooting me with the second one. Not sure if this is entirely avoidable.

[lofty wharf]

theres a 10% risk of death if you dont shoot yourself

although it may be worth it since the other 90% of the time you are guaranteed to either win or get the dealer to 1 charge

If you shoot yourself
10% win
20% both take damage, you save cigarettes
40% both take damage, no items left
30% player down 1-2 in charges, no items left

[lofty wharf]

shoot dealer:
40% win
30% both take damage, you save both items
20% both take damage, you have to use 1 item
10% lose

so its a really complicated question because while shooting yourself prevents the instant loss, theres a much higher risk of losing next loadout. And it's hard to calculate which ones better at that point

[hybrid wolf]

Are we assuming Dealer logic, or perfect opponent ?

[idle venture]

DoN Dealer, I assume.

The standard for such theorycrafting.

[hybrid wolf]

Oh right “both player and dealer”, I read “both players”

[idle venture]

Tabletop multiplayer brainrot.

[lofty wharf]

dealer brain

[queen spear]

https://tenor.com/view/buckshot-roulette-buckshot-dealer-hello-chat-hello-chat-buckshot-roulette-gif-8932130681891727534

[pliant willow]

Yo

[lofty wharf]

if we change it to be 2L2B (everything else stays the same), then i think its pretty obvious to cuff and shoot yourself, otherwise you die 1/6th of the time

[hybrid wolf]

I don'T actually think there is a "best strategy", this position is all about trade offs

what you propose guarantees survivability, but also guarantees you basically start from scratch with one of the two having one damage

meanwhile if you never shoot yourself, you have a 10% chance to die, but you also have a significant chance to win (still working on the stats)

[hybrid wolf]

80% chance to win

so yeah do you take the 0:100:0 odds, or the 80:10:10 odds ?
there's not really a better one

just a safe option, and a very likely option

personally I don't like the 50:50 of ending up at what basically is a new round but with only 1 charge left, and would much rather take the 80% win chances

@lofty wharf

[lofty wharf]

area you talkin about the 2L2B scenario

@hybrid wolf

[hybrid wolf]

2L3B

[lofty wharf]

well its only a 40% win chance on that loadout if you shoot dealer, not 80

[hybrid wolf]

PDL2/5 : Player shoots the Dealer with a Live shell at 2/5 probability

pretty sure my math is correct

Dealer is really determined to finding the one live out of all blanks

[lofty wharf]

that accounts for only 35%. you must have missed a parenthesis or something
You also missed the 5% scenario where the first 3 are blank and dealer decides to shoot you at 2L2B
so in total 40%

[hybrid wolf]

let me

uh

hn

right

wait

ok idk what I did before

I did it by hand

ok well

never shooting yourself but using the handcuffs first are 50% win chance

it is very reliant on at least one of the first two being a live

anyway

your choice between a 0:100:0 with 50:50 of being on a 1-2 or 2-1 charge with no items
or a 40:50:10

I'd still rather take the second option

because if the dealer gets a mag, you're dead

[lofty wharf]

these wont happen because dealer has cuffs

[hybrid wolf]

fuck

so still 40 I guess

[lofty wharf]

yea

[hybrid wolf]

doesn't change my point

[lofty wharf]

if you shoot yourself its still a 10% win chance and only 30% risk of being down 1-2

[hybrid wolf]

sigh

I am tired of myself