Can demos get their own game type and ability to be added to IGDB?
#Demos
cosmic lotus
thin cave
Can demos get their own game type and ability to be added to IGDB?
No, that would not be allowed by the guidelines.
https://github.com/twitchtv/igdb-contribution-guidelines/wiki/Content-not-allowed
cosmic lotus
i think the guidelines should be changed, then
naive pawn
i think the guidelines should be changed, then
Why? What do demos add that the full game doesn't?
north yacht
It doesn’t seem like adding demos that are just short parts of the full game would add very useful data points to the database. A demo that has unique content that is NOT part of the full game is notable, and is allowed
cosmic lotus
Why? What do demos add that the full game doesn't?
demos can sometimes be very different from the main release, and yet also be a fully contained mini-experience of the entire game
playing through a demo feels very much like playing through a video game, yet can feel quite different than the final release
i think they should be archived more
having IGDB make demos a thing could help with the archival process
think of historically important demos, like the UT demo
naive pawn
Demos just aren't important. While there are people that enjoy demos more than the full release, that doesn't make them more important than the full release.
cosmic lotus
it's your opinion that they are unimportant, i would disagree
naive pawn
If you want demos to be archive make a wiki or something. I'm sure there is a small part of the internet that would love if someone made a demo archive website or wiki or whatever.
cosmic lotus
but i also dont think they are "more important" than a full release
they are just important enough and often stand on their own as video games, it feels weird to ignore them completely
i ask IGDB to add demos because i like their site infrastructure
and its connectivity with other sites like backloggd
naive pawn
They don't really stand on their own. Demos are just small parts of a game that get changed most of the time. For the most part, most people that use IGDB use it to keep track of stuff, and there really isn't a reason to keep track of demos when you can keep track of the full game.
cosmic lotus
ok, i understand that might be your experience of demos, or what you assume is most peoples experience with demos, but i believe they are more important than that. there are many demos i remember playing that never led to me playing the full game, and yet i can talk about the main game from a certain perspective.
besides, IGDB has pinball machines, arbitrarily simple flash games, specially boxed versions of games, etc on their website. what's so different about demos? its just another type of video game
i think there are many alpha/beta versions of games on IGDB that could easily be called "demos"
naive pawn
The difference with demos is that they are an uncomplete versions of a full, realized game.
naive pawn
They are video games, but that doesn't mean they all should be archived.
Plus
Just like normal game releases, demos useally get removed from store pages once the full game releases. So, just like store pages, IGDB has demo pages are just the full game pages once it fully releases.
cosmic lotus
yeah, but IGDB's job is not to add and remove entries as they come and go in availibility. if that was true, pages like PT would be removed because it was taken off the PS store.
speaking of PT, what makes it different than a demo?
naive pawn
Just forget it. AnimeCwboy already gave you the proof why it isn't.
cosmic lotus
I understand that demos are against IGDB's guidelines, but i am arguing that the guidelines should be changed so as to accept demos
agile marten
Hey! If you see any physical pinball machines listed on IGDB, please feel free to report them in #duplicates-and-non-games as they aren't supposed to be on the site.
As noted above, demos that have distinct content from the full game release are allowed on the database, which is why we have PT. You'll notice we track the demos for Resident Evil 7 and Village as well. It's not ideal, but we currently track them as standalone expansions since they currently have their best fit under that type.
No current plans to track demos in general, but definitely feel free to submit demos with unique content not present in the main game.
cosmic lotus
Hey! If you see any physical pinball machines listed on IGDB, please feel free t...
well, i checked my big list of pinball machines and it looks like they have all already been taken off IGDB, so my bad! i was incorrect to say that
im glad that Maiden and Beginning Hour are on IGDB, i wasn't aware of that. I think that creates precedent to add more demos
my issue with submitting demos based on their difference with content from the main game is: how can we know that in cases where the main game hasn't released? for example, a couple weeks ago, Analgesic released a demo for Angeline Era, but the full game has no release date yet. can i submit that?
a demo is most interacted with during this pre-release time, so I would say its the most crucial time to archive its data, though of course archiving past demos is equally important
agile marten
If it's not clear if the demo has unique content, then we would ask that it not be submitted until that becomes clear
cosmic lotus
im not particularly happy with that decision, and i think somewhere down the line IGDB or some other game archive will need to take the lead and begin accepting demos as part of their database, or else we will further damage their preservation
pseudo charm
Would it be a fair idea to include some data regarding demo releases somewhere on the main game's page? I believe this could be nice for archival purposes.
agile marten
If we ever do track demos, that's probably how we would do it, but we don't currently have anything planned around this for the near future.
north yacht
It also gets complicated quickly, especially when a game has multiple demos, ones only available for a certain time frame, just a whole lot of complexity for something that isn’t super useful to begin with
That all said, IGDB could always decide to add demo tracking at a later date, but as Austin said it’s not happening anytime soon
cosmic lotus
i don't think an argument about the complexity of the situation justifies not trying to archive the data, there are other similarly complex game releases that have been dealt with (bundles, expanded games, DLCs, etc etc)
also, once again, i don't think anyone has any particular right to say what video games are "useful" or "important" and its best practice to accept anything that qualifies as a video game into a comprehensive video game database
north yacht
It’s also a matter of resources. You mention bundles, expanded game, DLC etc, but those are things they’re still working on adjusting how to handle. And the team was hit with some big layoffs a bit ago, meaning they have even less to work with, so they especially have to prioritize what to focus on. I can see down the line when they have more pressing matters handled them adding support for demos, but it’s just not a big priority for the amount of work it would take to implement
cosmic lotus
i can't claim to know much about the operations of IGDB, so maybe it is difficult right now, maybe not. but as long as they accept user contributions, i dont see what difficulties would arise from having another game type added amongst the rest. platforms have been added incrementally to accommodate correct data for more obscure platforms.
where exactly does the large amount of work come from?
thin cave
On the roadmap, just lower priority
north yacht
It’s not just as simple as “add demos”
It would require a significant amount of work to implement
Even though it seems like it’s a “simple” addition
cosmic lotus
demos especially feel like a noticeable omission when other game types like "Fork" exist that have <100 games registered to that type
thin cave
i can't claim to know much about the operations of IGDB, so maybe it is difficul...
currently looking at 20 pgs of 50 pending submissions each
agile marten
Fork was added when we had a lot less workload
cosmic lotus
i appreciate the people who accept submissions, but i think having the ability to submit games is more important than the turnaround for having a game accepted onto the site
thin cave
i appreciate the people who accept submissions, but i think having the ability t...
Minor edits sure, but you also have a number of devs that wait to the last second before they launch that want there game on Twitch
north yacht
But at any rate, the fact of the matter is that IGDB isn’t going to add demo tracking anytime in the near future. I understand you don’t like that, but it’s just not something they have the spare resources to dedicate to. Arguing about it isn’t going to change their minds or their developmental priorities. Hopefully down the line they are able to add demos
They already had to abandon entire projects due to the layoffs
cosmic lotus
even if it doesnt change anyones minds, i'll always try to argue for what i feel is right
agile marten
Adding a new type requires us to think out and document how it will work, work with our engineering team to implement, and come up with community guidelines on how it should be used. We then have to educate users and data team members on what is okay/not okay to submit/accept. Which is all doable, but we also have a mountain of other additions and fixes we want to make in the meantime, so it's not really feasible to move everything else aside for this.
We're not saying no, just not anytime soon.