just admit it
#pc-gaming
full flint
surreal lark
yeah they do. looking to purchase a pc after the pc zombie attack is over.
stray flare
if you are getting toxic just leave
full flint
alright
shut up
that's enough of that
@full flint can you do something about Bloomy, he's just Toxic
obsidian bobcatBOT
Bloomy DB#1631 has been banned.
full flint
Thxx
meager basin
@full flint It says my password was changed that why i think it was hacked, and when i reset it it said the same thing.
full flint
when i try to download a game on my pc using xbox app it says this game is rated above the restrictions set on this account how do i change that
tepid fable
i think i found a monitor that id like
full flint
when i try to download a game on my pc using xbox app it says this game is rated...
Just to verify have your parents set any Parental Controls on your account?
no
Hm, I would recommend reaching out to Xbox Support and they can assist you for further questions.. Hope this helps.
Xbox Support: https://Support.Xbox.Com
static dome
I have WiFi and not Ethernet and don’t know how to connect my pc to my WiFi does anybody know what to do
bleak jewel
I have WiFi and not Ethernet and don’t know how to connect my pc to my WiFi does...
bruh
buy a wifi anyena
antena
static dome
@bleak jewel that goes to the pc or the router
smoky flame
bleak jewel
<@670064167612317696> that goes to the pc or the router
To the pc
full flint
p
ruby spear
Only if they are Play Anywhere titles.
wind ocean
Been thinking of building a pc, any suggestions?
wind ocean
Noticed
Good thing I just started putting money aside so it won't be till later this year before I build one
analog sapphire
@full flint no advertising
dusk veldt
Anyone wanna join a java smp?
visual robin
hello everyone
surreal moss
Cheese
wind ocean
What type of cheese?
full flint
Cheese cheese
static dome
What does it mean when it says reboot and select proper boot device
full flint
it means your boot drive is not recognized
surreal moss
It can’t find the storage device you installed the windows OS on
timid parrot
hi
full flint
I have an issue with my xbox one controller connecting to my PC, it has stopped connecting in the last hour or so and I can't play controller games with it. I have tried rebooting the PC and controller but nothing works. I treid reconnecting it by removing device from my system's bluetooth, holding the controller's pairing mode and reconnecting. It says that it is connected in the bluetooth menu but it just carries on flashing rapidly and it does not work.
cedar forge
can i share my twitch?
thorny cypress
No, that's considered self promotion
cedar forge
okey
trail raptor
Ff
mighty spear
can i share my twitch?
just link it to your account
astral ridge
I am about to buy a wheel. Should i buy the logitech g29 or g923
elfin pewter
I suggest watching comparisons on youtube, depending on how deep into sim racing you wish to go
lime vessel
Thinking of getting a Xbox series X controller. is it worth getting?
lime vessel
Yes.
So you reckon It's worth paying the extra money over getting a xbox one controller?
full flint
I'd say so, yeah.
mellow breach
oh yea 100% @lime vessel
livid brook
@lime vessel i would say no its the same except the share button which currently has no function on pc
tepid fable
ordered something, prob shouldve done it awhile ago
actually messed that up, mines an ips version of pretty much hthe same thing
smoky flame
I've just learned the GPU I have just now could get me some nice money if I sell it soon. Bought the 5700 XT Red Devil for £395 last June. Ebay's latest sales range from £750-890. Really crazy times we live in right now for computer hardware
full flint
That’s what a massive silicon shortage on top of a drought does
woeful ember
im trying to refund a game but xbox support wont load does anyone know whats wrong
hoary kayak
i'm happy i got my 1080 ti 11 gb
tepid fable
It’s nice to have if you use it
silk storm
surreal moss
Who the heck is this guy
ebon wagon
some weird dude
tepid fable
Can’t ever escape fanboys, even if I have it they’d still attack because I also have x
atomic patrol
Can’t ever escape fanboys, even if I have it they’d still attack because I also ...
It's the sad reality of our current culture
smoky flame
ooh that is pretty 
viral crest
Thank ya! I found some epic iCue profiles so I said hey why not.
austere radish
lol i found an rtx 3090 picture for the same cost as an rtx 3090
slim lion
guys minecraft pls
cosmic cypress
Hey does anybody know any gfx designers?
full flint
GIMME THE GRAPHICS CARD
viral crest
Hey does anybody know any gfx designers?
Me lol
floral quail
I wanna send a pic of my pc but I have already sent like 78 quadrillion images before
tepid fable
The metal silver look
smoky flame
same here but I'm pretty happy with what I have got
tepid fable
I’m sure they’ll be back one day
smoky flame
well I'm considering putting both RTX 30 series and RDNA 2 behind and looking forward to what is next and looking into ways I can get my hands on these GPUs even faster next time. Though tbf I don't think I'll go with an Nvidia GPU going forward. Seems they have some issues with my monitor and I'd rather not put up with that mess. If I'm spending £700 or so on a new GPU I expect it to work and perform flawlessly
tepid fable
I just bought pascal right before ampere so I’m gonna wait a bit, at least till the next family
sharp moss
all i want is a new graphics card thats all
Me too
Sorry I don't know any of this pc stuff😅 but can we upgrade a graphics card on a laptop?
full flint
If I am not mistaken AMD has an event today?
steep bobcat
Where do games install with the Xbox windows app?
I can only select C/ or D/ but there is no exact location, I want to find the .exe so I can link to them with steam launcher
ok I found them, but apparently it doesn't let you open it from the .exe directly :/
well if anyone has a solution to be able to setup so I can launch the games from steam please @ me
surreal moss
smoky flame
ok, that 6700 XT doesn't sound too bad. Performance that can rival a 3070, 12GB GDDR6 and a $479 SEP (whatever SEP means)
worldly ravine
full flint
the PC Gaming experience @surreal moss
brittle loom
What's that?@full flint
full flint
Star Citizen
the prison
that's specifically a screenshot from BedBanana's Prison Escape:
https://youtu.be/31v7sSGfTm8
which is quite awesome
floral quail
I wanna send a pic of my pc but I have already sent like 78 quadrillion images b...
I would send an image but my coolers rgb stopped working
tight matrix
hello
floral quail
<@!535057072618864640>
3900X and rtx 3080 with 32GB ram
velvet osprey
What are ur specs?
my new tommy hilfiger glasses?
velvet osprey
my specs are tommy hilfigger hbu
sharp moss
Lol
full flint
I was doing an interview format 😦
honest basin
3900X and rtx 3080 with 32GB ram
What u using ram for 3d modiling?
wind ocean
olive island
how do i move my cod on xbox to my cod on pc please help thanks bro
smoky flame
you were already answered on #general-chat buy the game again on PC. After that log in with the same Activision account you use on console and progress should carry over
stoic inlet
I literally just saw this on reddit like 5 minutes ago lol.
outer marsh
hi
patent meadow
I'm gonna die of laughter
olive island
you were already answered on <#114211522384756737> buy the game again on PC. Aft...
how do i get it
smoky flame
how do i get it
Both Modern Warfare and Cold War are exclusive to Battle.net on PC. Download the launcher, create an account or log in and from there buy the game(s), install them and link your existing Activision account to these games
full flint
hi
sharp moss
Hey!
random locust
👋
smoky flame
looks like Intel are in a bad spot once again with their CPUs. 11th gen looks to be even more power hungry than 10th gen was. 11900K reportedly using up to 350W and having two less cores than the 10900K had. Not very power efficient CPUs. Oh and I didn't even mention the price yet... 11900K is apparently set to cost $600. I don't know about anyone else but a 5900X looks far more attractive right now. 50% more cores, similar price and all while being very efficient. Well played, AMD. Very well played.
surreal moss
Intel was never about power efficiency with the desktop class
If you want power efficiency, you have their T series that boost to 5ghz on less than 60w
That 350w is so it doesn’t bottleneck at 5.3ghz under sustained turbo
Something amd CPUs STILL do
smoky flame
that is ridiculous though. I don't even think the 3990X does 350W (maybe when overclocked) and that CPU is on a whole different league to the 11900K
surreal moss
It only uses up to 125
Same as it’s always been since the 8th gen
The second phase power limit (250-350) is sustained all core boost. Intels can hold it for up to a minute if you cool them properly.
This is why they always crush DX12 applications over amd when going with top end performance
Not normal session performance
smoky flame
it's clear Intel are the reason power supply requirements/recommendations are going up with new GPUs. Up to 350W with this 11900K and a 3080 or 3090 would suggest in excess of 750W. 850W likely being minimum with such a system and 1000W being the safe bet
surreal moss
Yep
If it was AMD only, it would be much lower
You can’t feed amds chips 250w. They will literally fail internally
You can run a 3080 and a AMD cpu on like a 650 easy
smoky flame
still great what they can achieve without having to go crazy on the power department
I still hope to get a 6800 XT some day soon and my 650W PSU with my 5600X should be fine
surreal moss
For sure. But performance comes at cost of power. AMD aims for balance. Intel aims for pure performance
All in all, rocket lake is a filler generation to me
We’re going to have alder lake in the next 6-8 months and it will be a whole different ball game
smoky flame
sounds a mess of a CPU generation to me. Intel would be better off not releasing these CPUs and instead focusing all hands on a true successor. Something that builds on from 10th gen rather than just fills in
surreal moss
The successor has been worked on for years now
This is to make money and keep the business going while that happens
10nm enhanced node, hybrid architecture, ddr5. Will remain unanswered until AMD released the zen 4 CPUs in 2022. I doubt their zen 3 refresh will even come close
smoky flame
from what I have seen and heard of this alder lake it is a very different type of CPU. Debut of that big.LITTLE thing. Will be interesting to see how that works
surreal moss
We’re looking at 16 core 24 thread hybrids. AMD will hold the very top for multi thread with the 5950x and successor, but that’ll probably be the only thing they hold until zen 4
Assuming zen 4 beats it
smoky flame
one thing that I wonder. Wouldn't AMD be pretty well equipped the way Ryzen and its chiplets are to create their own big.LITTLE technology where they could make hybrid chiplet CPUs. The position AMD are now in since Zen 3 introduced a change to their chiplet CCD structure must surely put them in a position where they too could think of joining this hybrid game
surreal moss
The change was all about latency reduction
I don’t think any of it really would set them up for high performance hybrids
smoky flame
I'm sure there is more to it than just a latency reduction. The 8 cores per CCD are no longer split over two CCX. I'll be interested to see what further developments are made when AMD move on from 7nm
full flint
hi
brazen maple
i need help on the ms store(at ms group they dont help me)
obsidian bobcatBOT
For support, please initially refer to #795454807250173972 and see if you can resolve your issue on your own. If you are unable to resolve your issue still after that, refer to #233805809346150400. Do note that this is community sourced support and there is no official support here on discord. As such, people will assist if/when they are able to but if you have issues regarding your account and/or billing, please reach out to official support for assistance.
full flint
heh, wow, https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph16535/121935.png , rocketlake turned out to be a complete disaster, regressed performance wise even vs 10th gen, despite higher power draw, doesnt even get close to zen3
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16535/intel-core-i7-11700k-review-blasting-off-with-rocket-lake/9 and im not cherry picking, its like that in every game once you hit a cpu bottlenecked testing scenario
smoky flame
I was talking about that earlier 😄
full flint
alderlake has no chance, and XLR8 moved the goalposts already anyway, he was proudly proclaiming for months that zen3 would lose to rocketlake by a lot since zen3 barely beat cometlake or whatever
but it loses in basically every workload, even gaming
smoky flame
nice to see you back btw. Been a while since I seen that name
full flint
i was busy with life and stuff
surreal moss
So two things
One, this test had a heavy variance in ram pairing for the benchmark. They decided to test the processor with 3200mhz cl22, like anyone in their right mind would buy ram that slow, then used 2933 cl18 for the comet lake test.
Second, the processors have an L3 cache issue that’s being fixed for launch. The bios fix isn’t out yet because they didn’t plan on a retailer breaking embargo and selling these CPUs a month early
I just wanna know how the processor that has higher clocks, longer sustains, faster controllers, and higher ipc- magically does worse against the same c/t count predecessor which is worse in every way, and you look at the test and go “yep makes sense to me intel sucks”
This isn’t even an AMD vs intel thing
I’m pissed you can look at this and go yep seems legit to me
smoky flame
I think its more Intel has reached the limits of what the 14nm process can do. They are trying to push even more out of it and as a result they have stumbled across some limitations that weren't in play with 10th gen. An 8 core i9 where the predecessor was 10 cores points out something is up. Which if true should have given Intel even more reason not to launch these 11th gen CPUs and instead launch Alder Lake as 11th gen seeing as that puts to end 14nm and given we'd be waiting until the end of this year or early next year for Alder Lake it would have given the people working on it all the time and resources to surely get it right
surreal moss
Development bandwidth isn’t split like that for the CPUs. Like I said earlier, these are definitely to keep cash coming in
And alder lake is confirmed for the second half of 2021. No 2022 unless they announce a delay
Think of it like the Xbox one x and the series x. It was two different hardware development teams, series x was being designed before the Xbox one x was even a thing to the public. It was a generation stopgap
Same deal with intel minus the stopgap
smoky flame
every chance of a delay considering how things are right now. I'd say watch this space with Alder Lake
surreal moss
Make an improved cpu so you don’t just sit in the dust for a year while the next bigger step is in development
I feel like you didn’t read what I said lol
full flint
hardware unboxed was told by board partners and intel that you can expect 1 - 2% performance increases due to the cache fix, at best, meaning it still loses in gaming to the 10700k, let alone the 5800X, and it loses in productivity to the 5800X as well
the 11th gen intel parts are broken, and draw 300w stock while being broken
sorry, 291w, and only because it thermal throttled, it would have been more if he could have cooled it, but its uncoolable under a sustained max load
smoky flame
I did read what you said. Never mind though. I get what you mean. What I don't get is why both AMD and Intel have to release new CPUs yearly. Couldn't every second year yield even greater gains for CPUs and lessen the chance of delays since more time is given for these teams to work on, even keeping in mind these teams will have been working on the next CPU before the predecessor likely launches
full flint
amd has teams leapfrogging one another on design, intel has even more teams doing it
surreal moss
Again
full flint
the zen3 team was hard at work before zen2 even had its final tape out at tsmc, let alone released
surreal moss
For like the third time
More money
They’re a business. And the gaming market is only a small fraction of profits for both companies
full flint
datacenter is about a third of intel's business, consumer which is desktop and laptop both is another ~30% or so last i checked
not sure what the last third is for intel
also, if you wanna accuse ian cutress of not knowing how to benchmark a cpu, i don't know what to say to you 😂
he's the gold standard all others have to measure up to, and others have confirmed his data is accurate thus far as well
surreal moss
The enterprise market is where a lot of the profits are scored for both. The year to year improvements are needed for business scaling when the need around the world for replacement devices are present year round for companies going to upgrades for example
If you wait like every 3 years to release substantial upgrades, you’re not only missing out on a lot of profits, but you’re putting consumers in a position of possibly wanting to wait, rather than just always having modern options
full flint
but intel's waited 4 and a half years to release any upgrade whatsoever for its datacenter customers XLR8
surreal moss
Like say the last cpu to come out was the 9th generation. Everyone right now who needs enterprise solutions would be stuck on old tech, or forced to wait for a substantial upgrade. But say AMD comes along and releases something in the middle. Now everyone goes to that company because they have the best solution while intel waits.
full flint
they're still on 28 core max skylake uarch parts which haven't seen any meaningful clockspeed bumps either
surreal moss
This is why the competition is yearly for small gains
It’s missed profits, and constant competition
full flint
by small gains, you mean small performance gains year on year?
if you're intel and can't release a new arch or put something on a new node, that's true at least, or when your new arch on your old node regresses in some workloads vs your old arch
surreal moss
All around product gains, wether it be performance or efficiency or whatever it may be. Idk if you can tell but I’m trying to teach him something, hence why I’m ignoring most of your jabs
Anyway
It’s just year over year back and forth, and honestly a big part of it is people just want the best, and are willing to buy things even when it’s only 2% better than the competitior, and even if it costs more
It’s half the reason intel is still around in the gaming world. Because they always manage to squeeze out that single digit percent advantage
And people spend $100+ extra to get it compared to AMD’s equivalent
full flint
you mean they used to manage to do that, and that isn't a jab but a legitimate correction to your statement. they've regressed vs 10th gen and 10th gen was already significantly slower than zen3 for gaming, and that's just a fact
surreal moss
Zero has it clicked yet or not really
It also doesn’t take much resource division like we talked about earlier. It’s entirely separate fabrication, design, and supplemental teams working on the CPUs
tulip rivet
can anyone see why this doesn't work? https://www.reddit.com/r/MinecraftCommands/comments/ifpqjd/homing_missile_commands/
smoky flame
it clicked yeah
surreal moss
In the end, money money money
smoky flame
yeah, that's all its about for businesses I always got that part but the whole money thing aside I think a CPU launch every two years could work. If one year gains are mostly considered small, think what could be done given two years. Moderate gains each generation
surreal moss
Or do it every year and make twice as much money
At this rate is not even a year anymore
smoky flame
the gap between Zen 2 and Zen 3 was over a year I believe or am I wrong there?
surreal moss
Don’t remember
But you gotta remember
It went zen 2, zen 2 for the XTs, then zen 3
smoky flame
oh yeah. I keep forgetting about those XT CPUs lol
surreal moss
It was less than a year between the xts and the 5000s
The XTs weren’t even worth it. But people still bought a ton of them because they were the best AMD had to offer
Mo money
smoky flame
I think those XT refreshes could have got named Zen 2+. Not that it matters now since Zen 3 is a thing
surreal moss
Well it wasn’t a better process
It was just a better bin I’m pretty sure
Process maturity + binning
smoky flame
I see
Had I upgraded before Zen 3 launched I probably would have stuck with the 3600 rather than the 3600X or the 3600XT. Just saturates the product stack 3600X was something like £50-100 more expensive than the 3600 and that was down to better binning I guess and the same applying to the 3600XT that followed after all that
full flint
it was just a more mature process, most of those XT chips can do like 4.5+ all-core, which normal zen2 bins absolutely couldn't, not that it helped performance, zen2's bottlenecks were elsewhere, mostly latency related
hows your 5600X treating you anyway?
smoky flame
its awesome. Still getting to grips with some things and at times I have to pinch myself that I actually own a 5600X. This is quite a step up from my old 6700K
full flint
rocketlake's regressions vs tigerlake (and comet lake for gaming) are also due to latency, at 5ghz the 11700K falls short of 4.8ghz tigerlake's single threaded performance
any problems with it so far?
what mobo did you even get? was it one of the msi ones?
smoky flame
no problems with it so far. Had a bit of a fight installing the CPU cooler but actual performance since I got it set up has been great.
I got the Asus B550 Strix-E. MSI one kept going out of stock. Thought I was never going to get this upgrade and magically the order processes about a week or so before Christmas
smoky flame
Arctic Freezer 34 esports duo. Works really well. Temperatures tend to sit at around the mid 60's (celsius) and have the odd but rare spike to 70-71c
while gaming
full flint
ah, the esports duo is good
also, it wont throttle until it hits like 95C, so you're fine
smoky flame
I learnt a few things rebuilding my system too. Biggest thing was despite how easy everyone tends to make PC building out to be mentally I was ready and all but physically it still took me more time than I would have liked it to have taken. Much like building up my PC for the first time I almost gave up but kept going and eventually got there. GPU gave me a bit of a scare at the end though
full flint
what happened? 😄
smoky flame
I was inserting the GPU, everything was fine and all but forgot to do something that had me take it out. Most awkward part was the cooler was pretty big so I couldn't get a finger down to the pcie lock to release it. Had to use a screwdriver and upon doing that the GPU didn't release properly and got stuck. I was embarrassed but managed to fix it, not without panicking something silly though 😅
smoky flame
still using my 5700 XT Red Devil. Tried so many times to get a 6800 XT and wasn't fast enough on any of them 😦
full flint
ah
red devil is definitely a huge card
https://www.ozone3d.net/public/jegx/201206/colorful-gtx680-crazy-vga-cooler-03.jpg not nearly as big as this stupidity though 😂
smoky flame
my 6800 XT search is open to all but one card. That XFX Merc would either not fit in my case or if calculated right with a few people I'd only have something like 5mm of space to spare. Sounds way too tight a fit so it is the only card I've excluded from my search
full flint
fair
smoky flame
also, that cooler... what the?!
full flint
colorful used to do dumb stuff in the GTX 680 days
including a fully passively cooled 680 that took 7 expansion slots
because sure why not
smoky flame
that's crazy
full flint
200w gpu, with just a mess of fins and heatpipes to cool it
smoky flame
and here I thought Sapphire attaching a 360mm rad to a 6900 XT was crazy
full flint
i mean, that's kinda crazy
but its a toxic card, and it exists to exist, not because it has to make sense
much like the asus LC card
still less power than a stock 11700k pulls, and easier to cool too 😛
291w and only didn't keep going because it thermally throttled every 2 seconds, 11900k is gonna be even higher, both are uncoolable on ambient cooling for sustained loads, even stock
smoky flame
yup, both cards are silly but people will still buy them. Out of the two I kind of dig the toxic design just a shame the price tag will be something silly
then again, I say that about the 6900 XT but the 6800 XT prices are crazy. I get why but unfortunately I don't see an end in sight for it. If anything pricing looks likely to continue rising and of course botters come along and grab whatever little stock shows up 😦
full flint
yeah, it sucks
nvidia's in the same boat, and it'll continue until silicon supply recovers a bit
amd's supplying two different cpu lines, two console apus, plus two gens of mobile apus, and a gpu line on the same node
nvidia's got no excuse since literally nobody but them are using that samsung 8nm node for anything noteworthy
cpu supply seems to be in a good spot atm, with the 5600X and 5800X being in stock at msrp at multiple retailers in the US
console supply is nowhere near enough to meet demand though, despite both machines selling multiple millions of units its still not enough, and you cant really find one
smoky flame
crazy times just now
full flint
amd's supplying near on 100 skus on their 7nm wafers atm, nvidia's got to handle like, 7 on a node nobody else is using and still cant make any gpus, so its a bit crap all around regardless of the reasons
smoky flame
btw, two different CPU lines?
full flint
zen2 is still being manufactured, not the entire range, but some skus
as well as the chiplets being used for threadripper and threadripper pro as well as epyc cpus
and then there are the zen2 and zen3 mobile apus both still being produced
and zen3 desktop parts (and they're hoarding more chiplets for the datacenter launch also)
smoky flame
oh, I thought Zen 2 production (outside Threadripper for now) would have ended by now and their focus would have been more on Zen 3
full flint
a chiplet is a chiplet, and they're still using them for desktop zen2 parts as well because their binning tiers allow them to
chips that bin well at vmin go to epyc, and fmax go to desktop
in between go to threadripper
smoky flame
makes sense
full flint
but yeah, they have zen2 chiplets, zen3 chiplets, zen2 apus, zen3 apus, xbox series S apu, xbox series x apu, ps5 apu, as well as two rdna2 dies, plus cdna dies (MI100, datacenter compute gpu) all being made on their 7nm wafer supply currently
smoky flame
that 7nm wafer supply must surely be stretched way past capacity
full flint
nvidia has 4 different ampere dies to make on a samsung node nobody else is using for anything and still has no supply
🤷♂️
and yeah, amd is stretched thin, but the cpu stock situation is pretty alright atm, and consoles, while impossible to find, are selling better than the previous gen machines did in the same timeframes, so that's multiple millions of units each
gpu supply is suffering, its their least important market
smoky flame
least important? I'm a bit baffled at that tbh
full flint
gaming gpu sales are a tiny, tiny speck compared to the sales volume of datacenter cpu sales
amd would let radeon die before it cut production volume on zen chiplets, because there's 30 billion dollars a year to make there
nvidia has an 80%+ dgpu share for gaming and only makes a couple billion dollars revenue a quarter in the space
smoky flame
still money though. I'm sure if either AMD or Nvidia felt the gaming GPU market was that bad they would have cut it off by now and we'd all be gaming on consoles but there is a reason I'm sure both AMD and Nvidia are holding onto the gaming GPU market
full flint
and yeah, that's a bunch of cash, but if the choice is sell a cpu for $12k that uses ~500mm^2 worth of silicon with yields of 95%+, vs sell a gpu for $700 that uses ~600mm^2 of silicon with yields in the low to mid 70s, the choice is stupid easy
just sayin
its not bad, and there's money to be made, but when you have to decide what your wafers are being used for when everything you could choose will sell every unit you can ship, you choose the highest margin parts in the largest addressable market
that'll be datacenter
smoky flame
oh yeah, I see that for sure
full flint
nvidia doesn't have that problem as much, they have comparatively fewer products, and their most expensive ones are lower volume parts that cost 50k+ so yields dont even matter, and are on a different node anyway to their gaming gpus
amd's problem is supply is stretched thin due to insane demand for every single one of the 100+ skus they produce in various markets, nvidia's problem is samsung's node blows chunks and they cant physically yield any gpus 😉
smoky flame
Nvidia have another problem. Marketing of their GPUs. Their naming is horrid and whoever decides the specs isn't much better. Like damn. 3060 with 12GB releasing after a 3060 Ti with 6GB...
full flint
6700XT being faster than the 3070 for less than $500 would be a pretty big blow if there was gonna be any supply of either gpu too
smoky flame
then there's the 3080 and 3090. Quite a gap, that is apparently set to be filled with a 3080 Ti sporting only 12GB and not the 20GB everyone and their goldfish I'm sure was hoping for
full flint
3080Ti 12GB is faster than a 3080 20GB would have been
because it means it has the wider bus of the 3090
still not gonna really exist, so its a bit pointless, amd shouldnt have even bothered to launch the 6700XT until it could supply them anyway, and nvidia shouldnt bother to keep launching new skus either
smoky flame
that 6700 XT is pretty interesting. Not sure if I should be tempted by it at all should I fail to get a 6800 XT
full flint
should be like 5 - 6% slower than a 6800 non XT based on those performance figures
its got a lot less CUs, but its clocked a hell of a lot faster at over 2.4ghz stock
its basically a ps5 gpu without the 4 disabled compute units the ps5 has, and clocked 250mhz higher
smoky flame
yeah, CUs are identical to the 5700 XT which is what has me question if I should be tempted by it at all
full flint
its clocked like 600mhz higher and has infinity cache
performance shown with SAM on has it beating the 3070, which means its not far off the 6800, at least at 1440p
should be 15% - 20% slower than the 6800XT overall
still gonna be like 50% faster than that 5700XT at 1440p
smoky flame
now that does make it sound pretty good and to sweaten the deal, I could potentially sell my 5700 XT for over £800 meaning I could be in profit when offsetting the cost of the 6700 XT vs what I get for my 5700 XT
smoky flame
not bad
full flint
so the floor you're looking at is ~40% faster at 1440p, and the upper bound is 50%, give or take
3070 is basically a 2080Ti, and this seems to be a little faster than that on average, so yeah
smoky flame
probably still cheaper than a 2080 Ti was even with all the circumstances at play right now
full flint
so if you have the cash and get lucky on the order, grab one
~20% slower than a 6800XT is still plenty fast enough to justify the upgrade from a 5700XT
ew, link, but its the performance slide amd showed
smoky flame
thanks, you really swayed me towards the 6700 XT. I was so set on the 6800 XT I was prepared to save up and pay the scalper price for one. Even was going to go as far as using my current GPU as a bargain chip. That plus a cash difference if I found anyone local selling a 6800 XT. Though tbh saving up is going pretty bad so the 6700 XT may favour me better
full flint
they might be cherry picking the best case results, but that's too large a gap for the average to swing nvidia's way there regardless
so its like, 2080Ti+ performance, yeah
yeah, the 6800XT is 22% faster than the 6700XT in borderlands 3 for example based on amds data for both tests
so my estimate was pretty close 😉
it will be more in some games
less in others
smoky flame
I guess that settles that then. (try to) Get a 6700 XT, sell my 5700 XT, make profit and still get all the latest features with a new GPU including SAM and try to save up better for the next again upgrade
full flint
still, you're jumping a full performance tier and might even be able to profit at the same time
so you might as well try
smoky flame
AMD have claimed availability of the 6700 XT should be "significantly better" so if that is true I actually fancy my chances more than I do with the 6800 XT or 3080 right now
full flint
6700XT die is sub 300mm^2, which means it yields around 80% and functional dies per wafer between 6700 and 6700XT should be like, 3x what the 6800XT is
so availability should definitely be better, yeah, it still wont be enough, so don't slack trying to grab one
smoky flame
don't think there is going to be a 6700. XT might be going it solo this time. Unless they plan to add it to the stack later or perhaps as an OEM option
full flint
definitely going to be reduced CU count dies to use
one way or another
and they need a $299 sku to counter the 3060 anyway
or a $379 sku or whatever to counter the 3060Ti
smoky flame
I better mark the 6700 XT's release date then. Going to try all I can to get one. Fully expecting not to get one of course but if I luck out I'll be laughing and pretty happy. Isn't a 6800 XT but maybe the lack of stock can work out in my favour in a way
full flint
you're getting a single tier jump instead of a 2 tier jump
but for a lower price, and possibly making a profit
smoky flame
something I haven't yet discussed but I found out is that some people who actually own 6800 XT are running into some issues and that some of the fixes ranged from people having to change their power supply to lowering a couple of voltage related settings from their motherboard's BIOS. Seems the 6800 XT has some underlying issues that may hit people where it hurts
if I can avoid that with the 6700 XT then I'll gladly do it when there is the chance of profit involved on the side 🤑
full flint
too many variables to jump to a conclusion based on that
could be a specific motherboard brand doing something weird, could be something else
smoky flame
yeah
full flint
not seeing widespread reports of issues like in the early 5700XT days
viral crest
Which 5700 do you have? @smoky flame
leaden haven
Hi
olive island
can someone help me
Earlier today i was looking how to get cod from my xbox to pc
but i found out you cant. But someone said you can with sea of theaves
how do i move it from my xvox to my pc?
please help
wind ocean
Talking about the game or your account?
olive island
the game
wind ocean
You can't, since cold war isn't a play anywhere title like Sea of Thieves
olive island
it isnt i thought it was
full flint
now we know
olive island
how much is sea of theaves
wait guys guys guys
i have the xbvox game pass on my account in xbox and sea of theaves is a gamepass game
how do i move my xobx gamepass account to my oc
olive island
dmb
full flint
open your dmb
topaz oar
how do i move my xobx gamepass account to my oc
Do you have ultimate or console game pss
smoky flame
Which 5700 do you have? <@246209595318468618>
5700 XT Red Devil, sorry for the late reply
viral crest
Nice! No worries. :) I have the Taichi and was thinking about upgrading eventually, just gotta get the cash. Would love to get a 6000 series. @smoky flame
full flint
surreal moss
@karmic tinsel don’t cross-post for help
karmic tinsel
upper vigil
https://youtu.be/o2FJMErSDPw
Now this is something I want to watch
livid jetty
how much would it cost if i wanted to build a cheap pc
devout crater
how much would it cost if i wanted to build a cheap pc
depends what u want it to run
dreamy gulch
surreal moss
Very cool
dreamy gulch
I love the new ps5
surreal moss
I’m glad you like it
This is the pc gaming channel though
Supposed alder lake mobile lineup
16 core laptop cpu is an interesting play
tepid fable
I like the ps5 too, but I tend to talk pcs in the pc channel
And that’s pretty crazy
vale gust
16 core laptop cpu is an interesting play
It's not 16 equal cores. Alder Lake is looking like Intel will bring the big.SMALL design of ARM CPUs to x86. You'll have a number of the high power cores that'll be hyperthreaded alongside a module of 8 lower power cores (no HT and only 4 cores on the tablet chip).
surreal moss
Yes I know how it works lol
vale gust
Apparently they're hitting Skylake IPC on the small cores though
So it's just a case of Windows actually being able to do the task scheduling correctly
Although I read that the're looking at having a hardware scheduler
surreal moss
Between geekbench not logging the early samples correctly and there being like 50 variants this time around, I’m holding out on where I think it’ll hit
What I’ve seen so far though is very very promising
vale gust
I hope the desktop chips are good
I like my X570 + 3700X but there's some platform quirks regarding USB ports that I dislike
And I'm getting tired of it and may jump back to Intel early
smoky flame
such technologies like big.LITTLE Intel are to bring with Alder Lake should be taken with a pinch of salt the first generation or two. If I'm not mistaken Intel are not only moving on from 14nm with these CPUs but a monolithic die too. First gen of this big.LITTLE is bound to have issues, even with the amount of time engineers etc have spent on it
definitely sounds exciting though
vale gust
I'd like to see ARM desktops and laptops become a thing beyond Apple devices
Especially now that NVIDIA own ARM
But at this current rate, my next work laptop is going to be an Apple silicon MacBook Pro
surreal moss
Good pick
full flint
16 core laptop cpu is an interesting play
😲
full flint
hopefully alder lake doesn't regress from rocket lake in the same way rocket lake was a regression from comet lake for gaming performance
i don't trust the windows scheduler to do anything resembling a decent job though with big.LITTLE
ian cutress updated people on twitter with regard to the bios used for his testing, its using the latest bios and microcode available from intel, and they're the bioses that will be available on launch day, so the review stands, no ETA on future updates, and they heard the same thing hardware unboxed did from partners, expect 1 - 2% uplifts in some workloads, maybe, but nothing substantial
so rocket lake fails to match zen3 in any workload that doesn't use avx512, and isn't coolable in any workload that does long term (the chip hit 105c in a 10 second avx 512 workload, good luck sustaining the thing at full clockspeed without thermal throttling in any workload longer than that)
smoky flame
that sounds crazy. What is even so special about this AVX512 feature anyway?
vale gust
AVX512 is the leftover from Intel's first attempt at making dedicated GPUs
smoky flame
so this AVX512 is a dGPU instruction rather than something that should be on a CPU?
smoky flame
am I right in saying AMD CPUs don't make any use of this AVX512?
full flint
not atm no, but there are rumblings of zen4 having avx512 support
smoky flame
interesting, have heard about that though it honestly doesn't sound that useful of a feature
full flint
avx512 is very useful for certain workloads
just not on a mainstream consumer cpu
the only reason intel included it on rocketlake was to win in geekbench, it serves no practical benefit in the real world when using it for 10 seconds sees you hit 105c and pull 300w from the socket
geekbench supports avx512 for a few of its workload types
smoky flame
I see, so Intel are just desperate then. What actual workloads put AVX512 to the test?
full flint
for datacenter, where clockspeeds are lower and tdp is strictly enforced, avx512 leads to huge speedups in some scientific workloads
smoky flame
scientific workloads?! Wow, wouldn't Intel and AMD (if Zen 4 rumours are true) be better off restricting the use of this instruction to CPUs that will actually put it to full use in the right sector? I'm guessing these data center CPUs don't require liquid cooling when they use AVX512 and have higher core counts than the 11700K/900K have
full flint
datacenter cpus that support it dont require liquid cooling, but they run at like 1.1 - 1.2ghz when using it
intel chose not to limit avx512 clocks on rocketlake because geekbench tests that use it only last a second or two
it was enough to give them a win in geekbech, though they lose in literally all real world mainstream consumer applications to zen3, and gaming,
smoky flame
that sounds a pretty low level of desperation to get one over AMD lol
full flint
well, icelake supports avx512 by default, porting the cores gives them support
they could have disabled it, but since nothing uses it it doesnt matter
smoky flame
more to the point they should have just disabled it since nothing uses it
full flint
they could have, but it lets them claim 19% ipc increase vs comet lake
full flint
floating point was the only area they saw a 19% gain and thus they claimed 19% ipc
its 7% in integer, and if you take out avx512 and average it all out its like 10%
they're still far behind zen3
smoky flame
that sounds really awesome considering Zen 3 has no iGPU. Not that it matters when most of the mainstream consumer users would be using dGPUs anyway but still
I do wonder how much longer it will be before Intel follow AMD with high performance APUs and CPUs that no longer have iGPUs
full flint
no idea
zen4 is likely to have another double digit ipc increase on top of a core count bump AND higher clockspeeds, so big.LITTLE aint going to do it for intel
their 8 big cores and 8 crap cores wont even beat zen3, let alone a 24 (or 32) core desktop flagship zen4 part
smoky flame
heh we going to see 8 core Ryzen 5 and 12 core Ryzen 7?
full flint
they wont have a cpu that beats the 5950X for at least 3 years
by then amd will have something 3 - 4x faster than that at the top of the desktop pile
smoky flame
yeah, especially if they keep launching CPUs yearly or so
full flint
i expect 8c ryzen 5 with zen4
smoky flame
tfw Athlon may soon be quad core
I wonder what Ryzen 9's new top core count will be with Zen 4 or will that probably remain 16 cores?
full flint
since zen4 epycs are rumored to be 96+ cores, i expect 24c on the desktop
3 5nm chiplets and a 7nm i/o die
full flint
might stay at 16, intel definitely has nothing remotely close in alderlake
they would need more than 8 big cores to even beat a 3950X, let alone the 5950X and zen4
at the moment, 18 of intel's big cores can't even beat a 3950X 😉
28 can't beat a 5950X in any workload that doesnt support avx512
and rocketlake is a regression in all the areas that matter for mainstream consumers in the market for a $500 cpu, that being gaming
anyone doing content creation was already buying ryzen in the first place
smoky flame
I read that like ❌ ❌ ❌ for Intel. Ouch! Especially when 18 and 28 core CPUs cannot beat 16 cores. That 28 cores should have made light work of a 16 core CPU. 16 vs 18 maybe closer but 18 cores should still edge past the 16 cores
full flint
to be fair, skylake-x was even worse than skylake due to their mesh being hot garbage
still, alderlake won't do anything to close the gap at the top of the stack in mainstream
smoky flame
tbh if I was in the market for a $500 at this point I'd rather go AMD and get more cores for my money. Might not be much use for gaming but 12 cores for a similar price to what Intel offer but has 8 cores cores? doesn't take much to guess what I'd be picking
full flint
icelake-SP (32 cores max) is finally matching zen2 based epycs though
just in time for zen3 epyc to launch on march 15th, ahead of icelake server
so uh, they're still 20% behind core for core, and have a max corecount of half that of epyc
so uh, no ground was gained there 😉
smoky flame
haha
AMD hitting Intel where it hurts in about every area right now. Guess we can also add GPUs to that list as the GPUs Intel plan to release don't sound that impressive so AMD have them beat there too. Probably take Intel at least three GPU generations to catch up to either AMD or Nvidia and with how much it seems the hierarchy at Intel changes these days they will be directionless. I'll even go as far as to say don't be surprised if they end their venture in GPUs fair soon (again) over it
full flint
yup
smoky flame
going back to CPU instructions just quickly. How's the rest of them? Any others like AVX512 that see limited/no use in the mainstream consumer/gaming market or are the rest of them put into pretty good use?
full flint
anyone got valorent, need 4 people
ionic moon
What cheap pc should i buy i want like a guess 450GPC
full flint
anyone wants to play minecraft on my server
obsidian bobcatBOT
If you're looking for someone to play with, please go to #587074461770186765
sharp moss
Hello!
full flint
ayyy, the new magic intel microcode that was supposed to fix everything for rocketlake got tested by hardwareluxx...
https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NEW-Core-i7-11700K-Division2.png it did literally nothing for gaming performance, the result change is within error margins between the old and new bioses
and rocketlake still loses to cometlake and zen3 for gaming
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/55649-prozessor-non-grata-rocket-lake-s-als-core-i7-11700k-im-vorab-test.html?start=9 incase anyone wants to see the second 11700k review
one that verifies anandtechs performance claims, and uses the new bioses which do absolutely nothing to help them gain any ground
smoky flame
would this microcode be able to do anything of the such?
full flint
no, this has the updated bios that people were waiting on to magically fix everything
it did absolutely nothing in any game tested there
they compare the old and new bios which has the old and new microcode
smoky flame
oh, I see
frank sun
Does back button meams SELECT button because I'm using xbox 360 controller on my pc because the screen buttons is different while playing wwe 2k19
coral badge
I always wonder why multiplayer is free on PC but not on console.
frank sun
Maybe someone's ignoring my question i am such a loser here
coral badge
Does back button meams SELECT button because I'm using xbox 360 controller on my...
well idk.
I think so?
full flint
Yes back button is select
full flint
Hello my friends, I have a problem with the integration of my picture from x-box to OBS? can someone help me? Thank you
silk shoal
full flint
@gusty matrix no self promotion please.
obsidian bobcatBOT
#rules 📢 7. No self-promotion or advertisements. This includes unsolicited references and links to other social media, servers, communities, and services in chat or direct messages.
visual escarp
Fallout 4 and Skyrim are out on Windows 10, sadly it doesn't look like your progress from Xbox carries over, which sucks.
ruby spear
No, they have separate achievement lists.
visual escarp
Yeah, so I have noticed. Kind of unfortunate. I thought Xbox and PC were linked. Was looking forward to playing my console saves on PC. 😫
full flint
separate achievement lists? time to replay fallout 4 and skyrim 😹
easy gamerscore 😄
@visual escarp Mod-support is also a factor
those effect save files
ruby spear
Oh nice, Fallout 4 on PC is the full 1600G in one list.
Although it means you need to play all the 'DLC' for the completion.
full flint
is the dlc included?
ruby spear
I would assume so, because it's a single achievement list.
full flint
its a single list on xbox despite there being dlc
ruby spear
It's not.
full flint
when i go to view achievements they're all in one list
the way it's listed is viewed as a single list, but they're broken up by update/DLC
oh
ruby spear
Xbox has 6 DLC lists for the extra 600G.
smoky flame
I don't get why HD texture packs are a thing. Most recent game I play that has them is Cold War and like that Fallout 4 ultra vs "high res" comparison I just don't think there is any point to downloading these things - This goes for all other games that use this HD textures thing too btw
smoky flame
maybe so but the additional file size these downloads often added were ridiculous. Some as big as, if not larger than the game itself. To me, just wastes space and seeing such minimal improvements definitely isn't worth it in any way. Maybe the improvements seen in some other games is more noticeable but overall it just doesn't seem worth it, as you stated above
smoky flame
that must be high res textures done right then
distant rock
sup
full flint
@smoky flame 👋
visual escarp
I just noticed that Fallout 4 doesn't have "Cloud Saves" listed under capabilities on the Xbox App for PC..... Does Fallout 4 support cloud saves through the Xbox App?
full flint
@visual escarp if it’s not listed then likely not
Due to how save files work in FO4 and Skyrim especially when using mods it’s unlikely. But I could be wrong. I haven’t checked admittedly
frank sun
Maybe gta v pc is better than consoles due to aiming skills and shooting npc
Ehh i like ford gt40(bullet) in gameplay it was my fav car and main vehicle in pc
dapper nova
i don’t play on pc (sorry) but i recently got a kbm and playing mw has been hard, does anyone have good settings for it?
autumn sluice
Dunno how dpi works on console but i use 1.15 with 1000dpi on kbm games
devout egret
QT-RTG = Quite Tiny-RTG
full flint
YO, PC Fable 3 is back on sale on US amazon for 20$
west forge
Yurrr
low ember
Yoo my little brothers birthday is coming up and I need a good laptop for playing games $500 or less
Any recommendations??
He tryna play valorant, tf2, Minecraft, roblox and Brawlhalla
full flint
You can’t get most laptops for that cheap
Even the cheaper ones at Walmart/local retailers are like, $400
low ember
I know $500 or less
low ember
Do those games need a high end laptop like that?
full flint
Valorant can be fairly heavy, yes
low ember
Alright thx
low ember
Okay
full flint
As for Brawlhalla I’m not sure
I’d imagine a basic enough discrete or a higher-end integrated
hexed viper
Hello
lyric yew
Yes. I use a 3080 and a Shield.
stark heath
Is the shield tv good for gaming???...like can it match pc gaming???...or should I buy a good lg tv instead and a good gaming pc???
midnight sparrow
a
smoky flame
got to love it when Cold War crashes on me. Has been far less frequent as of late but had two crashes today. First one was a CTD (crash to desktop) but the other one caused my whole PC to restart. Both times I wasn't playing particularly good so these crashes saved my butt 😄
lament mango
Is the shield tv good for gaming???...like can it match pc gaming???...or should...
Streaming is the future (of mainstream gaming--Playstation, Xbox, even most PC) but it's not quite there yet. If you're a serious gamer, with internet what it is these days, local hardware (a gaming PC) will be far more consistent and powerful than streaming, especially for games that require a fast response time or robust multiplayer.
Streaming can be really good, but it's less consistently enjoyable right now. In ten years, maybe Sony sells us a PS6 stick and Xbox sells us a Game Pass stick and we plug them into our monitors and stream everything. Right now though if you're a hardcore gamer, local hardware will run better, period.
surreal moss
It’s all up to what you’re looking for in your experience
If you’re still happy with a 1080p 30fps experience and don’t play competitively, you’ll probably be happy with either option
narrow breach
Hey! I'm a PC gamer who uses his Elite Series 2 controller most of the time. It's developed right analog stick issues where it won't register down motions all the time. I've thought maybe this was a software bug, so I plugged in a different controller and tested the same software and learned it was an input issue.
I'm already sending the controller in to get looked at. So why am I posting here?
I'm looking around at different controllers on the market to find ones that are reliable long term that include programmable and removable paddles. Preferably modular (analog sticks, d-pad, trigger locks, the whole deal) that is cross compatible with Windows 10 and Xbox. The first competitor I've found is the Razer Wolverine Ultimate controller. My only complaint is that it's paddles are a little awkward and irremovable. The Elite Series 2 would have been perfect, if it didn't develop issues so quickly. Any recommendations?
lyric yew
Is the shield tv good for gaming???...like can it match pc gaming???...or should...
Its only an android box. You can stream from a PC or GeForce now on it. Some games meant for Android TV natively also work on it.
lyric yew
Hey! I'm a PC gamer who uses his Elite Series 2 controller most of the time. It'...
Astro, Razer. Microsoft and Scuf are the only options that I know of. However the C40 does not work on the Xbox so that rules that one out.
full flint
Hey! I'm a PC gamer who uses his Elite Series 2 controller most of the time. It'...
Well. If you find a longer lasting one let me know
Controllers and stick sensor issues go hand in hand considering there’s only like 1 design for them
Even other brands source the same sensors
If you didn’t care about microaccuracy you could go with a wired 360 controller
crisp gyro
PC Suck
ruby spear
Thank you for that mature input.
tepid fable
full flint
using an nvidia gpu if you don't have a current gen flagship cpu kinda sucks 😛
https://youtu.be/JLEIJhunaW8 5600s at $250 are better than $1500 RTX 3090s if you're using a ryzen 5 1600, in any game using a low level api
nvidia has a big, big, big issue on their hands here
crisp gyro
what about PC sucks? Genuinely curious to know
I don't have new 3060 at least, and I'm angry on pc
smoky flame
ehh just wait it out. Whole thing is a mess right now
crisp gyro
How long? ?
smoky flame
no idea tbh
full flint
5 - 6 months, at least
smoky flame
might as well forget both Nvidia's RTX 30 series and AMD's RX 6000 series were things and try your luck with their successors
crisp gyro
no idea tbh
It's end for me how im soposted to run 2077??
full flint
hey sub, give that video a watch if you didnt already a few days ago, its uh, interesting to say the least
low end radeon gpus are faster than nvidia flagship gpus if your cpu isn't a 10th gen intel i7 or a zen3 cpu at least, in games using low level apis
smoky flame
I've seen plenty talking about it. Will give it a watch soon
I found something ridiculous not too long ago
sold by Amazon might I add. Not 3rd party
full flint
and with consoles having zen2 cpus, cpu limitations are going to be much more of a real problem even at higher resolutions in the coming years, which means nvidia's really screwed
because low level apis have taken over as the standard
wow, thats a lot 😄
smoky flame
sure is a lot considering the MSRP of the card was $999 convert that to GBP however they do it and I'm pretty sure the math does not add up... 😄
crisp gyro
I don't bypass your filter stupid system
ruby spear
Yes you did.
crisp gyro
No. How you know
ruby spear
Because I saw it and removed it.
crisp gyro
What you saw?
ruby spear
I saw you bypass the filter, now drop it.
smoky flame
btw, does this thing with Nvidia cards even apply to something like the 1070? My brother has an i5-7400 and a 1070
full flint
in theory, but in practice its much more likely to remain gpu bound at any resolution he would actually try to play at with a 1070
1080p medium in any game using a low level api is still gonna be gpu bound for the most part for him
the issue will start popping up more and more as time passes this gen with the cpu performance of current consoles being 10 - 15x+ what it was, and cpu requirements about to take a big jump, its going to be much more prevalent for those trying to do 1080p or 1440p gaming, and you can alreayd see it doing medium settings at 1440p with the higher end gpus in things like WD legion and horizon zero dawn right now
a 5700XT is faster than a 3090 at 1440p in WD legion, if your cpu isn't a zen3 flagship
the 3090 should be 2x faster than the 5700XT, its not, because nvidia's got a big, big problem
smoky flame
sounds like I picked a good time to upgrade to a 5600X then, if I do somehow get a chance to buy a 3080. Not that I want to at this point. My mind is pretty well set on the 6700 XT or more preferably, the 6800 XT though that really all falls down to a whole lot of ifs
full flint
here's 1080p
the 3090 and 3070 are well down on the radeon parts here, which are hard cpu bound on all non zen3 parts in the chart
he only shows two games in that video, but notes he's tested and verified it in half a dozen so far, with more to come
it basically means anyone not rocking a 5600X or 10700k or better shouldn't buy a geforce gpu at all, because any time you're cpu bound, a radeon gpu will be miles faster, and anytime you're not, they're comprable anyway
smoky flame
haha and this is supposed to be an Nvidia featured game (Watch Dogs Legion). This is all pretty hilarious
full flint
it happens in every low level api game he's tested so far, i think the next ones cyberpunk he said that hes testing it on
it hasnt popped up because reviewers only test gpus with flagship cpus, which is fine, and makes testing easier, but it doesnt help when the vast majority of your viewership arent upgrading their cpu every 12 - 18 months when they upgrade their gpu
smoky flame
yeah, I noticed something on that. Think they were running into some issues with the game. No surprise with Cyberpunk unfortunately
full flint
and lest you think this only happens on ampere, he verified it with a 2080Ti as well, so it affects turing too, meaning its definitely nvidia's approach to drivers for DX12, and not an architectural thing
its not at all uncommon for someone to have a 1600X, or an i5 8400, or a 2600X etc and buy a new, high end gpu, so yeah, nvidia's got a problem
even a midrange gpu like the 3070 (3060ti would also show this just as easily) will do it
so it doesnt even have to be a flagship, and a $400 3060Ti is a perfectly reasonable gpu choice for someone with a 2 - 3 year old upper midrange to high end cpu to grab
smoky flame
yeah, I went through owning a 980 Ti, 1080 Ti and 5700 XT all while having a 6700K before upgrading to a 5600X
full flint
yeah, if you had grabbed a 2070 instead of a 5700XT, you'd have been hurting in a lot of the games you play
1080Ti as well, but pascal had its own issues with low level apis that would have dogpiled on top
smoky flame
I game at 1440p maxed settings or close to so I think most games at that point, from what I understand at least should be GPU bound more than CPU bound
full flint
enabling HDR while also enabling adaptive sync causes pascal to crap itself, you lose 10 - 15% performance lol
so your fancy monitor would have been problematic 😂
smoky flame
yup
full flint
and that happens even when gpu bound lol
smoky flame
Nvidia is the gift that keeps on giving
full flint
radeon has its own issues, but nvidia's been crapping the bed since day 0 with low level apis, and this is just more crap for the pile
they've had 6 years now to get this right, since DX12's release, and haven't seemed to figure it out
amd's drivers in low level apis have been stellar from the start
their DX11 performance suffered at times, and nvidia excelled there, but thats small comfort when most games are DX12 now and low level apis are basically required for modern games to do what they do
smoky flame
I can see myself sticking with Radeon GPUs for the forseeable future. Ray tracing is of secondary interest to me. What matters most is great performance at a price that doesn't feel like I've been ripped off - The feeling Nvidia and Intel give me right now
full flint
i mean, the 3080 and 6800XT are comprable, and comprably priced, nvidia has certain advantages, and amd clearly has others in that particular match up
amd's working on their answer to DLSS, and that will see widespread use on the consoles as well, so they've likely straight up won the upscaling war already, just as they won the adaptive sync war
smoky flame
head to head and at MSRP, if I had the choice of either I wouldn't hesitate in going for the 6800 XT. That 3080 would be ordered back to the display cabinet
full flint
also, amd's performance for raytracing in games not designed explicitly and only for nvidia gpus, is much more competitive
world of warcraft is faster on amd gpus, so is dirt 5, and godfall is roughly comprable between the two
as consoles become the focus for RT usage, that shifts into amds favor as well, so while they might currently be behind, they arent as behind as testing older games designed when nvidia were the only ones with RT hardware would indicate
smoky flame
that Godfall seems to have turned out to be quite the flop. Shame as it looked pretty good but it becomes all too like Warframe at the end game. Grind, grind and more grind
full flint
i never said it was a good game 😂
smoky flame
ik, just voicing what I thought of it having played it. Can't really complain too much though since I got it free. Had I not and knew what I do about the game I would have waited for a sale to get it at half price or less
full flint
here's with RT on, 1440p doing a flight path
and off, so the nvidia gpus aren't behind with RT off, they're comprable here
when you enable RT, and the RT doesn't have unncessesary numbers of bounces, the performance is fine on radeon, there are different bottlenecks between the two
smoky flame
charts like this just make me want a 6800 XT even more 😦
full flint
nvidia's got a memory and scheduling bottleneck, so you can do more traversal and not have an issue, even when it doesnt lead to any visual differences, amd's got a bottleneck when it comes to traversal, but no memory bottleneck (due to infinity cache) and no scheduling and concurrent execution bottleneck, because amd actually supports running graphics and RT workloads simultaneously (nvidia can do either graphics, RT, or tensor at any one time and must switch contexts to do other work, its their single biggest bottleneck, and one that also affects their low level api performance since doing compute also requires a context switch, since async compute isnt a thing nvidia ever bothered to ACTUALLY support)
eh, the 3080 is competitive, dont worry too much about it if thats what you end up being able to get
like i said, nvidia has its own advantages as well
if your bvh tree can fit entirely in cache, amd RT is straight up faster than nvidia's, to make that happen, you can't have a pointlessly excessive amount of traversal going on
but they'll improve and cover for that weakness in future iterations
smoky flame
still early days with all the ray tracing technologies. I will be interested to see how much further they can take it and what comes after ray tracing and co
full flint
after raytracing is nothing
more and more raytracing and less and less raster, until you're ONLY raytracing, at which point you have fully physically correct rendering
smoky flame
I'm sure there will be something past ray tracing though we are very distant with that finding if there is to be anything. Once all we have is ray tracing and it is at such a level it is comparable to rasterization performance of today (against ray tracing) they will be looking out for the next big thing to try and advance and eat away at our wallets otherwise ray tracing GPUs of the future will keep getting cheaper as it becomes way more standard than it is today
full flint
there's nothing after simulating the way light moves in a physically accurate way though
making it faster and fasterr for higher framerates and resolutions is what it will be eventually
and pushing up asset quality
which UE5 is making a big push for already
smoky flame
every generation past this point or rather past Turing and RDNA 2 is already making advances on better performance with ray tracing enabled. Surely there is something else besides just upping the actual quality. Once it gets to the point it rivals reality is computing graphics suddenly done? this is a strange thought for 11pm 😄
full flint
if we ever get to the point where we can fully raytrace our games at a playable framerate, then yeah, its done, the only thing to push for is higher resolutions, more framerate, and better looking assets
for that you have to keep pushing forward as much as you ever did for raster performance gains, so nothing really changes
you'll need more ram, faster ram, bigger, more complex gpus, all that stuff still
smoky flame
interesting
full flint
the main difference is devs won't have to work on creating new effects, new hacks and workarounds to make things better looking and run well enough
it'll shift from their programming teams to their art teams, and the assets they can create
game development will change radically
we will reach a point eventually where new graphics engines no longer need to exist, it will be all about the assets you can plug in
epic realizes, this, they've been integrating tons of asset driven technologies into unreal engine lately, like nanite, and a few other ones i cant name off the top of my head
smoky flame
hah yeah I look forward to the following milestone with ray tracing. First game to be fully ray traced without the likes of Nvidia DLSS or similar aiding performance and FPS to be in a very playable and stable state. Might not see all that in my lifetime 😦
full flint
i mean, minecraft and quake 2 are already there
doing so with modern assets.... different story, and thus the need for faster and faster gpus continues, despite raytracing being the endgame in rendering tech
smoky flame
yeah, taking that up a few notches or so
a ridiculous dream would be to have a game so real you explore the real world mapped truly 1:1 in high quality and fully ray traced. That would be crazy
smoky flame
such a feat would probably make MFS look like Minecraft in comparison 😄
full flint
imagine this
so your pc is powerful? run undertale to see how much fps it can get with no framerate locking and using all of the pcs resources
lament mango
MSI GS66 Stealth vs ASUS Zephyrus G15... any thoughts? Same exact specs, I'm totally split here.
full flint
G15 is good, the stealth is also good, you can't really go too wrong
full flint
Wish PC Gamepass had ace combat and elite dangerous 😞
hybrid patio
Wish PC Gamepass wasn't so broken
somber flax
yo can someone help me i just bought a xbox series x controller and windows doesn’t recognize it and the controller doesn’t connect
obsidian bobcatBOT
For support, please initially refer to #795454807250173972 and see if you can resolve your issue on your own. If you are unable to resolve your issue still after that, refer to #233805809346150400. Do note that this is community sourced support and there is no official support here on discord. As such, people will assist if/when they are able to but if you have issues regarding your account and/or billing, please reach out to official support for assistance.
surreal moss
deft raft
lol
swift sand
full flint
Haha
wind ocean
Figured I'll post this here
Intel 11th Gen Processors up for preorder at Newegg
11900K https://t.co/rXk7pr2D0A
11700K https://t.co/rEEO8yMf9S
11600K https://t.co/dOJsZ19OqY
full flint
anyone know the cheapest possible pc that could run games like minecraft n cod n stuff, btw not the pc just the cheapest possible price i could get one
full flint
lol $620 for a cpu slower than a $300 5600X for gaming, that's a laugh and a half 😂
intel be crazy, raising prices on top of losing performance in gaming vs last gen
Exactly
AMD is where its at bois
smoky flame
what's really bad is this is all "pre order pricing" guaranteed Intel will be quick to cash in on the shortages and retailers will be bumping up the price of these CPUs within weeks, maybe even days of the actual launch (March 30th?)
Seeing the 11900K for around £530-540 just now. That price for an 8 core CPU that is worse than the predecessor (10900K) in about every way possible is ridiculous. Seeing as AMD CPUs are so popular just now and I can't find a retail price on the 5900X I can't even recommend that at the moment but if it comes even close there is no real contest. You'd have to be an idiot to pick an 8 core CPU over 12 cores if there is only £100 or so in it.
Even the 5950X is priced at around £750, probably more right now but that isn't quite 50% more expensive than the 11900K and you get double the cores for that money
full flint
@smoky flame 5900X is 540 pound msrp
its at least 50% faster than the 11900k for productivity, and even the 280 pound 5600X that includes a cooler is faster for gamers, it leaves intel with no viable place in the market, especially with board pricing being significantly higher than options on the am4 platform
vale gust
Intel just need to get their newer nodes working
And just do a few quiet but fast generations
Before coming out with something big
frank sun
If linked my account to xbox 360 should i play gta online in xbox 360 for 3 years then i will link my account to my pc then play gta online to get returning players right?
Because idk what to do
hot seal
full flint
@smoky flame
hope you managed to get one, because its another stellar card
3070 performance for less money, and if you enable sam ,it straight up wins
its not out until tomorrow the rx 6700xt
he's been hunting for a gpu upgrade, hope he snags one, it'll be his best shot for a bit
covert osprey
geforce control panel is closing when I open it why is this happening?
split mirage
geforce control panel is closing when I open it why is this happening?
which version? Win32 or UWP? The UWP nvidia control panel is garbage
full flint
You could remove either win32 or UWP and it’d remain the same
NVIDIA control panel is garbage
They need the same features but on a much more efficient GUI
split mirage
huh I've had nothing but problems with the UWP version but never had an issue with the Win32 one across 3 different geforce PCs in the last 10 years
Just giving my 2 cents
full flint
i need some help
covert osprey
the one from the windows store
I never used the windows store one before but I had to download it cause I thought it would solve the problem.
it works fine but closes when I try and go to manage 3d settings for a program.
and then after that I have to reinstall the application cause it will just open on the manage 3d settings tab for programs and close.
smoky flame
<@!246209595318468618>
Thanks. Hopefully I manage to get one but the site I'll be using will likely be put offline. I have no idea how fast I'll have to be to get in line and complete the purchase before that happens but I'll see how it goes tomorrow
full flint
rain coral
lolololol
frank sun
Seems like I'm being ignored
ruby spear
Or maybe no one knows the answer, so you could go ask Rockstar support.
barren notch
hello! moving to pc this weekend, figured I'd say hi
full flint
hhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaanzzzzzhhzhahnzhanzhnahnzhshhhhhhhhhhhhhahhahahahahahaaahhah
page up
hallow knot
When does ea play become available
forest sorrel
anyone having issues with empire of sin
ruby spear
Stop spamming
Your behaviour here right now is one reason why.
Pathetic yelling and spamming about memes.
Two (three including the one deleted), both all caps and a line all of the letter A. In a PC gaming channel, too. So disruptive, irrelevant and spammy.
Just drop it.
Probably, seeing as it would add nothing of value to the chat.
You're supposed to stop moaning about a meme channel and keep the chat to relevant discussion.
thorny cypress
Are you going to continue acting like a child?
ruby spear
Yes, because it's my job here to deal with people acting how you are.
small surge
I have Control on my XSX. Is there a way I can transfer my saved data from there to PC version?
true zodiac
Hi I’m new
supple charm
Need assistance
So I connected my Xbox to my 144hz monitor and now I can’t hear the game even in my headphones, check the audio settings and everything seems normal, any solutions?
Party Chat Output is on Headset and still can’t hear
obsidian bobcatBOT
For support, please initially refer to #795454807250173972 and see if you can resolve your issue on your own. If you are unable to resolve your issue still after that, refer to #233805809346150400. Do note that this is community sourced support and there is no official support here on discord. As such, people will assist if/when they are able to but if you have issues regarding your account and/or billing, please reach out to official support for assistance.
full flint
@supple charm
smoky flame
as expected, I was unsuccessful getting a 6700 XT. Store I was trying to get one from only had the option to email them and from there, if I was quick enough I would have received a call
all this is seriously pissing me off. New product launches no one can buy them. At least no one without their links that is. So frustrating. I'm so close to calling it quits on trying to buy any of these GPUs. Going to see how 6700 XT stock is for the next few weeks though seeing as AMD claimed it is significantly better than the 6800/6800 XT/6900 XT stock was. If true I should be able to get one fairly easily. Though significantly better gets thrown about too much these days and it could just mean they have 2:1 GPUs to sell which, while better is still poor
bleak spade
Best gpu for $330ish?
full flint
Those sound expensive
full flint
Best gpu for $330ish?
Idk. I use laptop but RTX 3080 might be around that price, it sound pretty powerful. One guy said he was getting like 300 fps or something.
bleak spade
well the 3080 is $700 or something lol
sudden salmon
bro an RTX 3080 is like $800
bleak spade
plus its never in stock
sudden salmon
sometimes 2k depending on how decked out u want it
sudden salmon
Best gpu for $330ish?
330ish 1660 super. look for sales
bleak spade
how is it compared to the 3060
bleak spade
since i found a 3060 for $330 but idk if its worth it entirely
I can find 3060 ti's in stock but they're like $450-480
Which is above msrp a little bit
floral quail
guys, what is this black line showing up on the windows desktop screen
dusty vector
creeper
obsidian crown
🙂
summer orchid
Is Nier working for you on GP Ultimate? I subscribed yesterday, other games work but not that one.
full flint
It is
summer orchid
For me when I launch the game it opens a window and then it disappears.
full flint
Is your GPU’s drivers up to date?
Also, check for any OS and/or app updates in Settings/Microsoft Store
summer orchid
Yes have everything up to date.
full flint
and you'd already attempted a restart
summer orchid
Yeah of course. Also tried messing with W10 screen optimizations. No luck so far.
full flint
I've seen some reports from others as well.
Can you attempt repairing it via Windows App settings?
summer orchid
Repair Nier directly?
summer orchid
Will try that.
full flint
once it finishes try restarting before attempting to launch the game again
full flint
I would
summer orchid
Trying that now.
summer orchid
Reinstalling as we speak.
summer orchid
@full flint Same situation. 😦 Window pops up and disappears again.
full flint
is it immediately or delayed?
cyan coral
does anyone know why on the xbox app for PC it's asking me to buy the xbox game pass again when i've already purchased it and won't let me play any games at all?
full flint
Did you purchase Game Pass for PC or Game Pass Ultimate?
Make sure you're signed into the Microsoft Store with the same account you purchased it on.
summer orchid
is it immediately or delayed?
A black window pops up for like three to five seconds and then disappears.
A black window titled Nier Automata.
floral quail
I know I have said this same thing like a BILLION times before but, damn it feels so good to not even have to think once about "hmm, can my PC run this game at ultra graphics"
summer orchid
@floral quail What do you mean?
floral quail
nothing, I got like a new PC like in feb and its pretty good
floral quail
is it safe for your CPU to be 50c hot and frequent spikes up to 70c at max for 12hrs straight
smoky flame
that's normal
floral quail
are you 100% certain?
and the GPU is hanging around 40c
the CPU temp chat looks kinda like this
The GPU is a bit more consistent tho
at around 40c-45c and the occasional spike to 50c
surreal moss
Are you doing anything with it
If you’re hitting 70c randomly at idle, that’s not the greatest for sure
But if you’re gaming or rendering or whatever, that’s normal
floral quail
downloading 4 games overnight
ok so I went digging around in settings and clicked somebuttons and now the temps are like 30-40c
cool!
and i set a reminder so I dont forget to click those buttons again
to put it back to normal
good night
surreal moss
high temps while downloading is normal
your cpu is instructing the system on what goes where and such
full flint
Downloads are equally as CPU intensive as they are network and storage intensive once you get to a certain point.
surreal moss
my 8700k goes absolutely haywire with my gig downloads and m.2s
full flint
yeah
downloads are a multi-core process
so AMD's new stuff and Xeon chips are a lot better
full flint
full flint
shadow flame
Cool
floral quail
HDDs really are so much slower than SSDs
smoky flame
ordered the Logitech G502 (wired) mouse 
floral quail
cool
tepid fable
im thinking of getting that one too
vale gust
HDDs really are so much slower than SSDs
This is why I went dual SSDs in my PC
floral quail
nice
vale gust
1TB 980 Pro as a boot drive plus main games. 2TB 860 QVO (previously used in my PS4 Pro before I sold it) for older games and such.
Then some old 2TB HDD for NVIDIA Share recordings
tepid fable
i still use hdds for archiving
got around 2 or 3 in this current system, theyre like backups of backups, my main drives are the ssds, two m2s and one sata, then i have a file server with 4.5tb in hdd
trying to go full ssd
vale gust
Luckily I don't need that many storage drives
I might grab a second 980 Pro at some stage
To double up on NVMe storage
floral quail
im thinking about getting a 980 pro next year
vale gust
I'm interested in seeing if we'll see decompression units like those in the Xbox Series X|S and PS5 within new NVMe SSD controllers in the future
full flint
Likely not
the decompression blocks on the consoles are tied to texture and model decompression using specific types of compression
types rarely used outside of games
hence the DirectStorage API
which allows the GPU to directly handle decompresson
vale gust
I guess offloading that work to GPUs on PC is enough
I was just thinking that maybe they could support compression formats used for general purpose applications alongside the game specific stuff. 🤷♂️
surreal moss
So it looks like they updated the Evga 3080s to not have a red lip
Just opened up my rma
smoky flame
vale gust
I settled on an RTX 3070, which I managed to get luckily, after trying to get a 3080 for so long
A bit annoyed about it still but runs games just fine at 1440p so I'm happy enough
whole grotto
tepid fable
dead pixel on my 600$ monitor, great
full flint
damn
surreal moss
Yes
echo kestrel
looks like henry cavill lul
full flint
man...reorganizing sucks
moving load-easy stuff from D: (M.2) to F: (HDD)
cause uh...
I'm strapped
really considering a couple of 4tb 870 Pro
full flint
Okay so can somebody seriously help me figure out what PC to get. So I’m a pretty young gamer and I have always gamed on my TV hooked up to my Xbox and I want to get a PC that I can also hook up to my Xbox if that makes sense? I want to still play games that were downloaded on my Xbox to save my progress and stuff like that. And I have no idea how a PC works and what PCs work with it or anything, so if somebody could take the time to send my helpful links or just any info I would appreciate it A LOT. Thank you!
I’m really confused, honestly I’m stressed over this and I shouldn’t be LMAO
floral quail
I thought how do you guys fill up that space? and then I realised I barely have my PC for 2months and still quite alot left but, thats quite a bit for 2 months, isn't it?
analog sapphire
that is a lot!
floral quail
I have 687GB left from 3TB
viral crest
Okay so can somebody seriously help me figure out what PC to get. So I’m a prett...
You can't actually connect a PC to Xbox. You'd have to download the games to the PC to play them. But, what kind of things are you wanting to play? That will help as far as what kind of PC to look for.
full flint
You can't actually connect a PC to Xbox. You'd have to download the games to the...
Oh thank you so much, I play stuff like COD, Apex, Overwatch, Minecraft but they are all downloaded on my Xbox
viral crest
Yea. You'd have to get them on PC and I know Apex Legends doesn't cross over as far as progress goes.
I'll DM with you if you want some suggestions! @full flint
full flint
Yes please give some suggestions, I don’t really care about my progress on Apex so it’s fine lmaoo
full flint
my dad bought a 3.4k alien ware pc was it worth it
raven hull
It probably is a great build. But worth it... 
surreal moss
I’m sure it was worth it to him
full flint
yeah he says it’s good and runs 244 fps on games and he likes it
mild pumice
how do I remove the parental control on game pass for pc
grizzled salmon
how do I remove the parental control on game pass for pc
Should be somewhere under "subscriptions" in your MS account.
uncut jetty
n
full flint
This maybe a dumb question but I’m very confused regardless. If I have a New series Controller, Can I just use a usb-c to hook up to my ox or do I also need a rechargeable battery pack?
obsidian bobcatBOT
full flint
@full flint you can use it wired or wireless with a One X
the controllers are cross-compatible.
But what about a pc? Do I need a rechargeable battery pack while using a wired connection?
no.
if you wish to use it bluetooth or with the wireless adapter then you'd need batteries or a charge-pack
Ok sweet! Thank you for the help 🙂
peak junco
Hi
surreal moss
Replaced the motherboard with a cheapo prime board since my z390-f died and I’m just upgrading in the fall anyway
Not too shabby looking. Might go more into the black and white theme
Diffused lights are needed for sure tho.
livid jungle
Not too shabby looking. Might go more into the black and white theme
That looks rly good not gonna lie how much you pay?
surreal moss
Somewhere over $2000 if I just took part msrp
I don’t keep track. I’ve been continuously changing parts for years now
livid jungle
Huh I did a 2080ti and a 5900x cpu of some sort
Hoping to get that 64 gb set of ram
Trident z rgb ram
full flint
i don’t really know where to ask this but can anyone tell me or send me the link to a kbm that i would be able to connect to my xbox?
$30-$45
pure lily
Just send you a link to one! @full flint
austere radish
Okay so can somebody seriously help me figure out what PC to get. So I’m a prett...
for any crossplay games like apex or fortnite the progress should be transferred automatically if you use the same account
floral quail
Replaced the motherboard with a cheapo prime board since my z390-f died and I’m ...
where did you get those cable extensions from?
full flint
Just send you a link to one! <@456226577798135808>
-_-
surreal moss
Amazon, I think they were from link-up
snow violet
raven hull
Click the button that says Join Now. And it’ll take you through the rest.
brittle loom
What games are you all playing nowadays?
full flint
I’m ready for an intense night of Microsoft Bingo
And Sudoku
...and Jigsaw....and Minesweeper, and Treasure Hunt...
midnight sparrow
lmao
waxen axle
smoky flame
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08Q9SCPGD pretty sure this 6900 XT has been on Amazon about a week now. No surprise considering its price... That is some distance off the $999 MSRP price. So much for pricing and availability on GPUs to have improved by April. I don't see any chance of that happening with exactly a week left of March. At this point anything AMD or Nvidia say I'm beginning to lose trust in. Prices have not lowered. If anything they continue get higher which considering most of these GPUs, with the exception of the 6700 XT and 3060 released last year. Some as far back as September and still haven't improved
full flint
...and Jigsaw....and Minesweeper, and Treasure Hunt...
i decided to give up on Minesweeper since achievements in it are ridiculuous. Bing would require me to play nothing else, and that's a no no. Good luck to you, gentleman. You'll need it for dailies.
floral quail
Amazon, I think they were from link-up
what are some cheap and high quality extentions, cuz I might get some in a few months
coarse pond
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08Q9SCPGD pretty sure this 6900 XT has been...
If people thought prices were gonna improve by April then they are funny. More realistically people will have to wait till like August.
full flint
I expect late 2021 or 2022...
opal robin
Replaced the motherboard with a cheapo prime board since my z390-f died and I’m ...
configs?
@surreal moss
hoary kayak
i have a question is rx 570 lagging and crushing?
umbral sleet
insane luck just found an automatic laser musket in fallout 4
iron spindle
But what about a pc? Do I need a rechargeable battery pack while using a wired c...
you can use a wired connection
wow sorry discord did not update that question was asked ages ago haa
rigid geyser
Ok, on steam, if i had only 20 bucks to use at some point, then which call of duty game to get. keep in mind, i never played a call of duty game before so i wanna know what is the best one to start with at 20 bucks
so?
rigid geyser
that's 60
livid brook
Get the one that's 20 then
rigid geyser
so the ones that are 20 bucks are call of duty 1 and 2, modern warfare 1 and 2, and world at war