pvp

[stray sigil]

warrior dont have a cd

they have to talent avatar dont they?

[edgy shale]

i think so

oh true spirit wolves

i forgot about that

[stray sigil]

i mean ig if u count bs as a big cd

[edgy shale]

ya they just get a bunch of like 45 second cds or wahtever

i guess

[magic mulch]

Hello I am new to balance druids and wow in general Icy veins has circle of life and death as the best pvp legendary but looking at players I dont see a lot using it, is there a better option?

[stiff crow]

Quick question, for beartank Sleeper legend, we want haste/ver?

[placid minnow]

Anyone done some calcs on the Necrolord changes? Is it enough to consider for more than just Resto?

120% = > 150% of Spellpower damage and increased DoT damage 20% = > 25%
With the Necrolord shield buff
Good enough to consider for Boomy/Feral?

Can't be too bad for consistent damage on Boomy either though can it?

But it is dispellable I'm guessing

I suppose, true.

Ahh.. That's unfortunate.

Either way I do plan to Feral PvP though. You think Kyrian is still the superior choice?

Resto is guaranteed Necro superior though, aye?

I just don't think an alt of mine can get gear enough to make Kyrian worth it

Adaptive Swarm might scale better for lower gear as Feral

Just trying to make a non-Kyrian for once, as all my other leather users are Kyrian due to massive superiority.

Monk, clear Kyrian. Rogue, same thing.

But again every single Feral on the top 500 is Kyrian.

[edgy shale]

bro wat was that triune legend pre-nerf? i just played a game against a mage and he almost heals more than my healer with the dang barriers

thats an exaggeration but jesus

i think i just haven't played against a mage who knew wat he was doing who used the leggo, cuz i looked the mage up and he's like 3k xp

[stray sigil]

1 bt bite goodbye shields

[edgy shale]

IT WASNT ENOUGH

[placid minnow]

@vestal citrus What do you play?

[stray sigil]

@edgy shale small

weak

[edgy shale]

[placid minnow]

I basically just want to reach 1800, But I guess Kyrian would be the best even for that rating.

[stray sigil]

hit a 26k today

git gud

@edgy shale

[edgy shale]

my badge is still 197 lol

i blame that

[stray sigil]

nop

nop

i am just better at biting ok

[edgy shale]

[stray sigil]

one more follower of the bt curio

yes yes

we will take over the ladder

soon

[brittle quest]

Sorry if this has been asked a bunch but night fae or necrolord for resto and why?

[loud wedge]

i tried to swap back to night fae from kyrian yesterday, did a long ass quest, and they told me to wait..thought this was a weekly reset thing?

do i have to wait 1 full week to complete?

[stray sigil]

its 2 weeks

2 quests

1 per week

[edgy shale]

ur trolling urself so hard

[loud wedge]

yeah but

i did 1 yesterday before weekly reset

[edgy shale]

y'all are so ADHD switching all the time

[loud wedge]

i really didnt like kyrian lol

bt curio - its hard reset on completion right, not weekly?

[edgy shale]

he prefers to be called savant if u dont mind

[loud wedge]

@stray sigil

[stray sigil]

what do u mean hard reset

ur right where u belong

[edgy shale]

[stray sigil]

u rite 900 a bit high for u actually

[edgy shale]

hes talkinmg about a weekly reset i think

[stray sigil]

@vestal citrus

the quest is a weekly reset ig

i did it one time before a tuesday and could do the other part on tuesday

[edgy shale]

i actually watched pikaboo lose 5 times in a row on stream today while playing w/ a ret paly named "lilbubble" cuz the paly kept instadying without bubbling, even tho he had the prot leggo, at like 1400 rating. then i turned off the stream and said enough of this for today

boosters tho

[stray sigil]

i mean i feel at 1400 u can 1v2 everygame

[edgy shale]

he couldnt tho lol

he tried

he kept wahhing wahhh rogue is so bad

[tardy hare]

Duude I've been stuck there for a while too man... Its rough with all the 210+ ilvl people while im only 227. Fucking sucks everyone is too geared

[edgy shale]

what troll shit r u up to

[mint gull]

Watcha guys think about Kyrian vs Night Fae in pvp? I just swapped to Kyrian from Night fae and in my opinion, it feels you have more dmg in the longer run with Kyrian but you can obviously kill high prio targets faster with Night fae if you dont get interrupted or countered that quickly during Convoke as Balance.

[mint gull]

legs obviously

[waxen acorn]

How much honor is it to upgrade 1H from 226-233 ? 😃

[tardy hare]

11.8k

[waxen acorn]

Shit :o 2H must be like 15k lol

[tardy hare]

o wait

sorry thats 2h

[waxen acorn]

Oh ok

[edgy shale]

jesus its that much?

[tardy hare]

ayup

[edgy shale]

[loud wedge]

@stray sigil @vestal citrus was not a weekly reset for me. I did it yesterday before weekly reset, and the quest has not shown up yet.

unless the second quest is not in the same place as the first?

[fathom lily]

"check the pins icy veins is shit"

And i crafted circle for rbg

[loud wedge]

fuck had to log out - exit - exit to get the quest..reload or alt f4 didnt work

if anyone asks again

[edgy shale]

the cov change quest

[loud wedge]

yeah it is on reset - but you have to log out to get it

[edgy shale]

NF 2 tanky. kyrian paper

[loud wedge]

right?

im sooo much more tanky as night fae

[balmy vortex]

Do druids have a macro for trying to rake stealthed targets

Or is there no point

[junior plover]

Yes there is a macro

But up to you whether you wanna bother

I don't really use it

[slim robin]

#showtooltip
/cleartarget
/targetenemyplayer
/cast [harm, nodead] Rake
/stopattack

This is what I use

[junior plover]

Nooo snupy

You fool

[tardy hare]

snupy a fucking clown confirmed

[edgy shale]

did u see that in the snupy discord or wahtever?

[edgy shale]

ya, there was acutally a dumbass argument about it in the feral chat. I was upholding wat u good men have taught me, and he comes at us w/ that screenshot. I said i don't care snupy says about weapon damage he doesn't know tf he's talkinga bout

[junior plover]

Yep cock

Snupy is good but he was running dreamweaver until last week

Didn't even try Niya once

[edgy shale]

bro what

[junior plover]

Great player but doesn't put too much thought into the theory crafting part of the game

[edgy shale]

im the opposite of that

[junior plover]

Just play more

I'm at 1200 games and counting

[edgy shale]

thats what im doing rigfht now!!!!

[junior plover]

We're going to the moon

[edgy shale]

now ur just dropping f acts

[junior plover]

Got like at least 3 more months of this season

Go glad or go home

[edgy shale]

[junior plover]

Oh yeah snupy was also running the proc trinket for like 2 first months

[edgy shale]

[junior plover]

[rugged helm]

Is Main stat on weapon important? I have sinful gladiator's sacrificial dagger?

[junior plover]

Ilvl is by far king

Especially if feral

[dreamy matrix]

Which weapon enchant do you guys use as feral?

[rugged helm]

But i have enough to buy full gladiators gear if i use it? should i wait for 2H?

I play resto

[junior plover]

I have no clue if resto has a preference

Where's the resto boys at

[edgy shale]

i use sinful revelation

[rugged helm]

I will drop it in resto chatt

[karmic stag]

guys i havent played shadowlands yet

but can you tell me

how does guardian druid tankiness in pvp compare to Legion

are bears in shadowlands sturdier/more durable or squishier?

i remember end of Legion they made tanks take 50% extra damage up from 40%

what's the name of that ability

i think its soulbind

that grants you stacks and each stack gives max hp % bonus

stacks up to like 15-17

seems op for bears no?

[last jackal]

Any boomkins here?

😄

[edgy shale]

WTF?

my lol got wardened

[last jackal]

aye

[tardy hare]

None of that here

[surreal heron]

Duplicates

[edgy shale]

NO LAUGHING

[radiant ether]

hi guys! Astral dmg is arcane or nature dmg too? or eclipse dont work with astral dmg?

[surreal heron]

Try being more original

[edgy shale]

give me more laughing emotes

[radiant ether]

ok, so eclipse sinergys with astral spells

ok thanks

i saw many rbg druids pushing maestry > haste

[surreal heron]

I'll think about it

[edgy shale]

[radiant ether]

so, i know now

[tardy hare]

I just have mastery cause im feral

[radiant ether]

do you think maestry is better than haste then?

[tardy hare]

I don't know and don't really care

[junior plover]

We need a laughing cat emote

[tardy hare]

I just walk into the bg

[junior plover]

[tiny oar]

its this?

[junior plover]

Idk man

[last jackal]

Why are people so afraid to give someone a chance in RBG, i even got decent gear and probably better class knowledge than half of them 😐

[radiant ether]

yep, but with 30% versa, ppl try to scale first another stats

[junior plover]

It's not clear enough that it's laughing

I feel like it's tilt or anger

Helplessness

[edgy shale]

wait, this whole time u saw that emote as laughing lakerz? i see it as screaming / biting

[radiant ether]

ohh, thanks

[surreal heron]

Cursed

[tiny oar]

U guys r frying me

[edgy shale]

its literally called savage roar

[coarse epoch]

I usually run a mostly premade rbg group at 2500cr and 90%of the time when we pick up a few players we don't perform aswell.

[tardy hare]

This dog is laughing

[surreal heron]

Always open to suggestions, shoot me a DM. Personally I like to have some originality, there are definitely some exceptions though.

[dusty sphinx]

When people play for rewards, rather than for fun, they will minmax as to not waste time. It's just how the game is designed and it's not really the players fault

[tardy hare]

Its fine we play for rewards but half the team is a 🐒

1400 exp in arena is enough to get 2.4 in rbgs

[dusty sphinx]

Most players are simply idiots

[tiny oar]

Is there really no trashcan emote wtf

[tardy hare]

Hd

Wtf

[coarse epoch]

Was looking for a bear pvp/rbg guide but couldn't find 1 any 1 got a link?

[edgy shale]

🥫

[tardy hare]

https://youtu.be/QHzSgeC29cA

[radiant ether]

i couldnt too

[radiant ether]

omg gold

thanks

[tardy hare]

See you in 12 minutes

[radiant ether]

¬¬

i saw

best video ever

thanks

[coarse epoch]

Got anything for flag running? Btw I've never played druid before and want to give it a go

[edgy shale]

SLEPer leggo

[candid moth]

try to avoid the enemy rogue, best in stealth

[junior plover]

[bitter harness]

i love it when i play my pala

and I say im using sac on the FC

and they pop pain sup on it too

[junior plover]

They want you to take less damage

why dont you appreciate them

[balmy bane]

guys, in PVP boat leggo is better on leg or feet ?

[bitter harness]

after 30% vers do we still keep gemming for it?

or mastery/haste instead (boomy)

[edgy shale]

id say yeah

[bitter harness]

fair enough

[tulip falcon]

i have some clips i recorded for other people as examples of how we communicate/kite etc i can send over

[edgy shale]

machtig already linked that

[bitter harness]

[tulip falcon]

smh

[bitter harness]

wasnbt that just a video of him sitting prowl in a base for 10+mins

[edgy shale]

[junior plover]

[scarlet pelican]

Hey guys

Balance pvp 3vs3 pvp talents

Against 2 melee I take thorns

Against 2 mages what should I take

High winds?

Maybe not because I mainly clone healer

Specially after root beam combo

What should I take ?

[bitter harness]

maybe the one that buffs your regrowth when you offheal others

[scarlet pelican]

But as balance you wanna keep damage on them

Keep pressure

Off heal wouldn't have much impact

I'm 1626 CR on 3vs3 27-13

[edgy shale]

so when ur teammate needs to be healed and is dying u just throw dots on em?

[scarlet pelican]

No

I off heal him ofc

But you wanna have as much damage as possible

[edgy shale]

if u wanna be a dot king go that dying stars thing there u go

[scarlet pelican]

Dying stars ? Hmmm isn't that the one that gives you astral power is moonfire and sunfire are dispelled?

[edgy shale]

yeah

[scarlet pelican]

Oh right yeah maybe

[edgy shale]

naw thats not good outside of BGs

[scarlet pelican]

I was thinking that 🤔

For melee I'm ok

Bear form skin and thorns

They killing themselves

Is against casters idk what to takr

Take*

Maybe moon and sun

Or wtv it is when u enter eclipse you have less chances of being silenced

That with aura mastery should be OK

[balmy vortex]

what buttons do i press during zerk

just mash shred?
should i overcap for 5 point bite?

[junior plover]

Yes and yes

But you can rake too

[heady phoenix]

Berserk honestly feels so bad lol

The combo points are so wonky

[junior plover]

It's pretty bad but with symmetry it actually gives you a brutal go

[pallid coral]

@tardy hare ur doing it wrong actually

should be sitting ON the flag

if rogue RNG saps you in this video

he can force trinket

and then either reset cap on you

or hold his blind for incarn down

if you sit directly on the flag it doesn't matter if he saps you

[clever turret]

@pallid coral maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if you sit ON flag, rogue saps you can caps
if you trinkets, he blinds and caps, and there's nothing you can do about it.
pretty sure thats why you actually never sit on flag when holding a point.

[pallid coral]

no

because you're playing guardian druid

and you have brambles

so being sapped doesn't matter

you can press barkskin while sapped

so if you're sitting on the flag

rogue can't sap cap on you

because you just wait until into the cast

and press barkskin

if you do what machtig does in his video

then rogue can rng sap you

and bomb the flag

and then you either lose the cap

or have to trinket

[clever turret]

brambles breaks capping flag?

[pallid coral]

yes

[clever turret]

thats ridiculous

[clear pulsar]

So where the fuck is your help after 30 fucking seconds?

[pallid coral]

sure

but in practise what he's gonna do

is he's going to vanish

when you incarn

and then you either need to double defend for the full 2minutes

which if you haven't allready won the TF

can be monka

or you lose the base

[clear pulsar]

You can still spin for 20 seconds before needing ot use incarn tho

[pallid coral]

?

how

you're not on blind dr

and you don't have trinket

you insta lose it

[clear pulsar]

You let 5 seconds pass before you barkskin, then that lasts 12s, then you can take another 5 seconds after to trinket thrash

22 seconds

[pallid coral]

ok

if you're sitting on the flag

yes

that's what i'm saying you should be doing

[rigid edge]

Question for pvp boomkin : should i wait for torghast rotation to craft Balance of all things or craft Primordial Arcanic Pulsar right away ?

[pallid coral]

if you do what machtig is doing in his video

you can't barkskin

[clear pulsar]

Bruh

You watched a 12 min machtig video?

Mad lad

[pallid coral]

i watched the first like 30 seconds

saw he was doing it wrong

you can just open the video and see he's standing away from the flag

[clear pulsar]

You're lying you sat thru the entire video

[pallid coral]

anyway yes

if you do what machtig is doing

[clear pulsar]

Ok yeah

[pallid coral]

you can lose the base as bear

if you sit on the flag

[clear pulsar]

I cba watching that

[pallid coral]

then it's impossible to lose it ever

[clear pulsar]

He uses elvui I'd never open a video

Yeah

If you're bear sitting on top of flag is bis

But honestly I'd rather just sit as boomie

[pallid coral]

as veng you have to sit in africa

but

[clear pulsar]

Sit in africa, fury of elune + treants

[trail crane]

take boat from twisting corridors (also pulsar is for m+)

[clear pulsar]

Unkillable with barkskin leggo

[pallid coral]

I played some rbgs with old friends last night

[clear pulsar]

I dont think anyone actually runs pulsar in m+

[pallid coral]

and just spent all the games incing bases as bear

it was great

[trail crane]

rank 1 nw does 😄

[pallid coral]

just roleplaying as a rogue

[clear pulsar]

Also timeworn dreambinder is arguably the best pvp legendary (not very arguable tbh BOAT is just nice as night fae) @rigid edge

[clear pulsar]

I joined this group with some 2.4+ players on alts

Lead couldnt make up his mind on who he wanted to sit LH before gates opened

[pallid coral]

[clear pulsar]

Even tho I directly offered

[pallid coral]

tragedy

[clear pulsar]

But whatever I went teamfight

I was first to die in teamfight cuz cavoke

Attracts everyone

Lead himself had sat LH as ww

Lost the base in the first 30s of game

[pallid coral]

rofl

[clear pulsar]

So I stop following his calls

[stray sigil]

@junior plover did u play with jelly or something

[clear pulsar]

I spam hit mines and ww all game

Drag 3+ helpers everywhere I go

Living thru everything with barkskin leggo and renewal

Eventually I cap ww from the dh solo sitting

Then I run to mines and cap it too with help from a paladin

[stray sigil]

is that boomy or feral face

dont make me cock slap u

[pallid coral]

lmao

[clear pulsar]

I nearly solo 3 capped them and won the game when we were down 1200 to 500

[pallid coral]

bear is actually pretty filth capping flag

[clear pulsar]

And this fucking ww lead

[pallid coral]

if anyone goofs and goes near flag

[clear pulsar]

Is fucking talking shit to me cuz I didnt listen to his shit calls

[pallid coral]

you can just roar clone cap

[clear pulsar]

[pallid coral]

get trinket

[clear pulsar]

Boomie ofc I'm not a savage

[pallid coral]

and then either bash take or warstomp take or root take

[stray sigil]

if u were horde face

u could rbg with the biggest of boys

[clear pulsar]

True facts

No chance I'm going feral on fucking gilneas vs like 4 melee tho

[stray sigil]

but u decided to go alliance for god lnows what

hey i go feral gilneas

[clear pulsar]

I thought I was gonna bse sit too

Cuz I offered

[stray sigil]

hey i also base sit

pull up the office

relax

[clear pulsar]

Boomie is too comfie for base sitting

Just treants and look away

[stray sigil]

i just lose base and willy comes back to take it

i say

my b

never gonna lose it again

[clear pulsar]

Does willy play surv in rbg?

[stray sigil]

pepelaugh

what do u think

[clear pulsar]

[upper chasm]

Dreambinder legendary is BiS for kyrian boomkins and boat legy is BiS for n8fae right?

[clear pulsar]

Ofc he does

[stray sigil]

[clear pulsar]

Kinda? Not really, but sure.

[stray sigil]

were making him go orc

[clear pulsar]

Read pins

[stray sigil]

one step at a time

[clear pulsar]

[stray sigil]

i fear hed play bm before hed ever play mm

[clear pulsar]

What is he rn?

[stray sigil]

troll

[clear pulsar]

Bro orc is bis for hunter wtf

1% more pet dmg

[stray sigil]

1% pet dmg when ur pet is dead all game

[clear pulsar]

Maghar orc

Pet tanky

[stray sigil]

oh shit i will relay this information

pet never dies now we going to the top

[clear pulsar]

[proven bridge]

is it better to take a vers piece over 5-10 ilvls?

[loud wedge]

when you are boomie vs warrior hpal - do you still go celestial guardian?

[pallid vessel]

in 2s? no u just lose lmao

real answer though not sure what else you'd take, moonkin aura/celestial/thorns against arms prob, moonkin disarm is not great against hpal too many outs

the best recommendation is come to the dark side and play feral in 2s moonkin is annoying at best for 2s imo

[junior plover]

Generally not

[proven bridge]

in arenas, still the case?

[junior plover]

True but warr Hpal is like the worst feral matchup there is

[proven bridge]

was deciding if i should replace 213 legs for 200 vers/haste as balance

[junior plover]

Yeah ilvl provides more ehp and damage

Than versa

Generally speaking

[proven bridge]

ok

[junior plover]

You can think of maybe swapping rings and neck

But other than that ilvl is king

[pallid vessel]

@junior plover kyrian warriors feel pretty easy, venthyr is a free trip back to queue with less rating tho

[proven bridge]

why does EOTS always feel like we're bashing our heads against the wall?

its the only BG that feels like that lol

[junior plover]

Idk even Kyrian warriors felt almost impossible for disc feral where if they don't make a huge mistake it's generally unwinnable

Holy feral feels a lot better tho

Holy priest*

[pallid vessel]

i play with an hpal, it would be a lot harder w/ priest i think

[grand mesa]

One day I’ll sit down and actually learn how to feral

[junior plover]

Yeah Hpal must be different

[pallid vessel]

i only play at like 2100 MMR in 2s as well so the warriors are probably awful

[junior plover]

Priest just ooms or we die to dampen before we get through all the defensives

Funnily enough I think Rdruid Arms is the biggest pain in the ass for us now

[pallid vessel]

rdruid is actually broken in 2s i dont care what anybody says

they're as good as they always have been except they now have a huge one pop heal with natures swiftness

[junior plover]

I think its just really good into feral

[pallid vessel]

if i played a fire mage id probably love facing them but if you dont one shot the enemy competesh feral aff rdruids just own the game

[junior plover]

But idk it might be really good in 2s

[pallid vessel]

its not that hard.. im a boomkin main but play feral in 2s you can learn it quick

just learn the giga opener and keep bleeds up.. run away and peel in between tigers fury/feral frenzy

the first time you actually bring a rogue back out of stealth cause u have bleeds on youll never go back to moonkin in 2s

[junior plover]

You'd need to have all TF bleeds on

For that

If even

I don't think it's ever happened to me

[pallid vessel]

happens to me all the time, but rogues could just be slow to reopen

[junior plover]

Bleeding them for 20% max life is hooge

[grand mesa]

Ya I’m gonna sit down this tier and learn it. Correct me if I’m wrong but feral really bite centric now anyway right? Not really the multi rot with bleeds and all that

[junior plover]

Yep

[pallid vessel]

yeah its all bites all the time

[junior plover]

Bleeds are mostly for bite damage

2.5-3% for each bleed

So the goal is to keep dots up in a way so that you're full cp and high energy when you're ready to go

Kinda telegraphs who the kill target is but that's how it is

[pallid vessel]

biggest benefit to feral is how much easier RM is to fight

i feel like i have to misplay to lose it, unlike boomkin where it felt unwinnable

[tall knoll]

I dont have a healbuddy at the moment so i play 2s with ret\frost dk as boomie. I hate rm at this point...

[wise valley]

When does feral not feel energy stavrdd

Shit not playable at 190 ilvl lol

[pallid vessel]

nothing is playable at 190ilvl

[harsh surge]

🤓

stops being energy starved when you pool properly

[wise valley]

Even for questing shit zzz af

[loud wedge]

wtf guys

if i kill a rogue in shadowy duel

and he got pod ...i cant attack pod

did you know?

[tardy hare]

Man im afk

He'd get the flag if he just capped it

Also can just soulshape thrash

Or something

[pallid coral]

Still need to trinket the sap

Ur guide is bad and wrong

[tardy hare]

You perhaps

They'll never find me

I havent been found by rog un stealth for years anyway

[pallid coral]

germans are just the worst

honestly

[tardy hare]

Do people actually even search?

[pallid coral]

yeah

[bitter harness]

[pallid coral]

most rogues do

[tardy hare]

Enemy boomy can incap roar clone you

If you on flag

Dumb tactic

I'd get ur trinket insta as boom or feral

[pallid coral]

so? boomkin can't cap on bear

if the bear is a human being

[tardy hare]

Idc

Im gladiator

[severe viper]

[trail crane]

cringe

[lime light]

how is it cringe, more like alpha male

[trail crane]

this was. i love copypasta

[lime light]

both apes

[bitter harness]

im gonna ook you in the dooker

[loud wedge]

thank you for your reply- and fuck feral lol

[pallid vessel]

why it owns

[junior plover]

[junior plover]

Doesnt feel too bad at 224

I only really wait for 50 energy bites

[wise valley]

Wish I could have big bites and tigers fury make pve a breeze 💁‍♂️

[tulip falcon]

then what

rogue dr blinds you? pog

if i trinket incap/clone on flag and clone is about to be off dr again i know rogue isnt there so i just line and hit with moonfire or incarn if im not sure

theres less risk in that then getting sapped away from flag

[tardy hare]

Man

Y'all fucking rbg tryhards

People at 2.4 dont know all these tricks

[twilit siren]

can you see flag cap swirl while duel'd

[round geode]

Do you guys think its bad idea to put a noform:4 macro on each of my boomy spells?

[junior plover]

Does anyone know where I could watch some FLP gameplay

[tulip falcon]

no but you can aoe it

[twilit siren]

so you have to assume someone's on it and cast, ok

[tulip falcon]

i mean they wont duel you otherwise

no point unless someone is capping

[opaque tree]

Is feral / hpally a good 2v2 comp?

[pallid vessel]

statistically its one of the most played 2v2 comps over 2200-2400 that include a druid so it is perfectly solid

i think resto druid/arms and disc priest/feral are more popular but hpal/feral works just great as well

[opaque tree]

sweet, ty!

[pallid vessel]

if it makes you feel better thats the 2s comp i play and i enjoy it a lot but i dont play that far over 2000 MMR in 2s

[pallid coral]

@junior plover Zev said he'd stream some next time he played it

[junior plover]

He better do

[thorny venture]

PvP is so miserable on alts

[blissful belfry]

well, yes and no. If you ignore the mmr and rating, its nice

either a contest of who can set up his spagetthi swings the best or you trying to outplay people with enormous gear advantage, but with the IQ of an ill dog

[thorny venture]

It's just miserable on any char that's behind on gear. I don't enjoy it and miss BfA

[blissful belfry]

miserable how

miserable because the cr is low or because of other reason

[green valve]

Big facts

Actually feels pretty good beating tyat 2400 rbg hero at 1600 cr on a 205 alt

[clear pulsar]

BFA was the exact same thing

Except you could pve to gear faster

If you only do pvp you were more behind in bfa than you are now

[blissful belfry]

true

but there was pvp scaling in bfa. Although it was shit

[clear pulsar]

Yeah but the borrowed power systems were way more impactful and time consuming

[blissful belfry]

i think they removed pvp scaling to stop rextroy from making videos

[clear pulsar]

Before they added vendor essence

[blissful belfry]

you know the only thing i miss from bfa?

cycloblast on my resto druid

or whatever the mechagon trinket was called

[ebon vortex]

i dont miss that

the week where that was broken was awful lol

[tough meadow]

guys can someone help me with stats

[ebon vortex]

kinda miss claw tho that was fun

[blissful belfry]

the first week of blast was broken as fuck yeah, but after that it was nice. actually gave me a nice kill potential as a healer

[ebon vortex]

imagine claw now with an affli lock

[blissful belfry]

UA mindgames claw

[ebon vortex]

my mythic claw won me so many games lmfao

plus i played with a destro

good times

[blissful belfry]

of course you played with a destro

[green valve]

I mean they could just make more interesting pvp trinkets too

Like a versa trink that does dmg on use

Or something

[ebon vortex]

at least i wasnt playing mw or hpala lol

[green valve]

Pvp gear doesnt have to be boring

[clear pulsar]

It's just first season

They add more trinkets each season surely

[blissful belfry]

i want a pvp trinket on the same mindset as Bel. I'd take a 3 min cd on use that gives massive mastery+vers for 5 sec

[clear pulsar]

They did add new trinkets every season of BFA at least

[thorny venture]

I'm just one of those that believes gear should barely matter in pvp

[ebon vortex]

they should bring back maledict 🙂

[clear pulsar]

YEAH I BET YOU WOULD

[blissful belfry]

hehehehehe

[thorny venture]

Like I want fresh chars to have a shot especially if the goal is for pvp gearing to be enjoyable

It's not right now

[ebon vortex]

maledict and the corruption pool dr

trinkets were annoying af

[blissful belfry]

bell is 1min 30 for 9 sec of 670 mastery. so if you put that 3min cd, you could make it 1340 mastery. hmmm. then you make it last 4,5s instead of 9 and you double it again to 2680 mastery for 4,5s on a 3 min cd. Yeahhhh, i'll take that

[ebon vortex]

wish they would bring bcak the shield trinket tho

[blissful belfry]

BaLaNcEd

[ebon vortex]

and what happened to the on-use vers trinket

that was nice

[novel wind]

there is an on-use vers trinket isn't there?

[blissful belfry]

not a pvp one

[junior plover]

You cant put enchantments/gems on gear in arena anymore

[neat pecan]

What is the preferred feral legendary for pvp? Apex predator?

[junior plover]

Symmetry

[novel wind]

symmetry + berserk = bites for days

[thorny venture]

scaling was removed cause people cried they could dominate poor alts in pvp

[clear pulsar]

Boo hoo gear and character progression matters in the mmo rpg

[novel wind]

makes for a real shit new player experience though

[thorny venture]

No, it's all about epeen and knowing your opponent has 0 chance

[novel wind]

my disc priest dies to a single rapid fire even with pain supp up lol

[junior plover]

Tried queueing some 3s with a buddy on a warlock alt

195 ilvl or w/e

dies to a rogue through defensive from 100-0

[blissful belfry]

When you have shit gear, just queue up a little bit and your mmr will go down to match your lvl. you'll stop dying instantly after 2-3 games

[novel wind]

even low MMR has a ton of super geared people

[thorny venture]

Yeah, no

[heavy cairn]

Sometimes you gotta trade more than just wall

[thorny venture]

There are 210 people under 1200

[heavy cairn]

195 is nothing tho atm

[blissful belfry]

yes, but super geared people at 800 mmr play with their feet

[thorny venture]

cause they use a bracket to farm conquest

[junior plover]

Yeah its nothing but you gotta be 1400 to get more

thats the issue people have

ofc its nothing

but its literally impossible for them to get any better gear

[thorny venture]

everyone gets their rating in rbgs and just farms 2s

[neat pecan]

head or hands to craft symmetry on?

[junior plover]

unless theyre super good

[heavy cairn]

If you can’t get 1400 in that gear it’s a player issue

[clear pulsar]

[novel wind]

of course it's a player issue, they're new to the game

[heavy cairn]

When they just have to learn lol

[junior plover]

Idk he's 2700xp and 2.2k on his monk

I think he should be able to play 1400 mmr 3s

[novel wind]

it's not fun to learn when getting destroyed by geared people

[thorny venture]

No, it's not learning to suffer

game after game after game after game

after game

[blissful belfry]

losing enough will put you at an mmr where you can win

[junior plover]

Yes

that mmr is 1200

so how do you get better gear again

[blissful belfry]

if you always only lose, then you are just the worst player in the game and it cannot match you with anyone worse or equal

[junior plover]

Not saying my warlock friend

just new player

[clear pulsar]

If you're spam losing at 207 ilvl at 1400 rating you're not losing because of gear tho

You feel?

Like

It's just a copout

[heavy cairn]

^

[novel wind]

it's not just gear but gear is a factor

[junior plover]

I generally agree

but we played like 15 games

not a single guy on 1400 mmr

was under 34k life

[blissful belfry]

Of course gear is a factor, i queued on my ret alt at 160 ilvl and was at 800 mmr, when my main is 2.2

[clear pulsar]

Then how bad are they

[heavy cairn]

That’s an anomaly then

[haughty compass]

I hit 1600 on my 195 destro lock in one session in 2s

[junior plover]

you have like 30% less damage than your opponents

[pallid vessel]

u must not have played me cause i was playing at 1400 MMR yesterday on my 165 warrior

[junior plover]

20% less hp

less versa

[blissful belfry]

but you have to accept your mmr being shit while you gear

[junior plover]

it's just painful af

[heavy cairn]

Because I’ve played at lower mmr on my alts and faced ppl with gear at 30k or less

[novel wind]

my guild has 226 ilevel people at 1200

[junior plover]

But again

gear to where

[blissful belfry]

with sub 1400 you can still get 200 in all slots

[novel wind]

being bad at pvp doesn't mean you can't get gear

[blissful belfry]

from conquest

[junior plover]

Yes

thats 200 ilvl

youre still 15-20 ilvl behind

[blissful belfry]

and then, at 200 ilvl, you can get 1600

[junior plover]

to people palying 1400

[heavy cairn]

How do you learn to get to 1400 though?

[junior plover]

for a new player that's absurd

to go through

[blissful belfry]

im 1400 at 190 on my shit alt that i cant play

[thorny venture]

Just be like everyone else and just buy a carry

[junior plover]

Yeah but you can play the game

[clear pulsar]

No just git gud

And stop whining

[thorny venture]

CLEARLY spending that gold to just be able to play is correct

[clear pulsar]

Be able to play lmao

Bro

[heavy cairn]

I’m surprised the mindset lol. I never complained about gear when I was new to PvP as just grinded

[pallid vessel]

hardstuck 1400 players will never admit its their fault

[clear pulsar]

Yeah I bet those 7 more ilvls will get you to the rightful place you belong

[haughty compass]

The only sympathy I have is for people who have to spam lfg al the time and don’t have any friends

[blissful belfry]

well, when you are bad and cant play, you cant get the best gear, i mean, that sounds pretty logic. They'll have the same issue tryna go do +15 with thei shit toon

[clear pulsar]

Fucking madness bro it's madnesssss

[junior plover]

See I don't think gear is stopping good players from getting decent rating

even tho the warlock at 195 does literally nothing

[haughty compass]

People lack fundamentals bro

[junior plover]

not enough haste

[heavy cairn]

I do think there shouldn’t be scaling ilvl I liked WoD and before

[junior plover]

not enough damage

not enough survivability

[blissful belfry]

You want bad player with bad gear to be able to get good gear from bad play

?

[clear pulsar]

@pallid vessel but we're talking about people who are 220+ ilvl at 1400 themselves you know?

[novel wind]

how do they get good gear from bad play?

[haughty compass]

Me and my hpal buddy, 197 ilvl... destro / hpal to 1600 no prob

[junior plover]

Nah I'm talking about a guy i got 2.2k in 3s with

a week back

[clear pulsar]

No fucking shit they can't get to 1.4 on their undergeared alts

[junior plover]

he does NOTHING at 1.4k 195ilvl

[clear pulsar]

Can barely get there on main at 220

[novel wind]

even with completely even scaling bad players still wouldn't get rating

[blissful belfry]

if 160 ilvl noob can get 1400, anyone with normal gear will have 2400

[junior plover]

Its probably just a destro quirk

[heavy cairn]

@junior plover warlock requires a lot of kiting

[junior plover]

but still crazy to me

[heavy cairn]

Especially aff

[blissful belfry]

my ret is 198 ilvl now, i crit for at most 8k

[clear pulsar]

That's cap my necro alt got 1.6 in like 60 games in sub 190 ilvl

[heavy cairn]

You can’t face tank stuff and have to cycle kicks as destro too

[junior plover]

Yeah I think it's a destro thing

he doesnt have enough stats to stay alive and he literally cant move

unlike a feral

so he cant kite

[heavy cairn]

But u can get 1.4 as destro in that gear tho

[novel wind]

people just like being able to out-gear other players

[junior plover]

I mean yeah u definitely can

[thorny venture]

Regardless, I see myself only pvp'ing on my best geared main that I play first week of the season, alts just get relegated to pve

[junior plover]

and we will

[novel wind]

that's why smurfs existed for the longest time

and why smurfs are dead now

[junior plover]

but this guy played destro to a high rating before and played to a high rating on monk this season

and I shit you not

I do 4-5x his damage

[haughty compass]

Destro is dope dude, there are a lot of people who struggle setting up kills

[heavy cairn]

Well being a caster is a lot diff than melee

[blissful belfry]

its normal to outdps someone undergeared

[haughty compass]

Yes

[thorny venture]

Of course people like to out gear and stomp on others, it strokes their epeen. Doesn't mean it's good for the game

[junior plover]

I mean yeah its normal

but 4-5x?

[heavy cairn]

Monk has one of the highest upfront burst it’s rly strong

Lol

[clear pulsar]

Bro pls stop saying that shit lmao

[junior plover]

[proven bridge]

is there a way to use clique with bge or gladius?

[junior plover]

I get him being half as effective as me or smth

[clear pulsar]

You're in no position to talk about fully geared players at 1400 bracket

[haughty compass]

Everyday I stay in this channel, I stray further from god

[clear pulsar]

NO POSITION

[thorny venture]

If Shadowlands had BfA gearing, people would be calling this the worst pvp season ever.

[junior plover]

but he cant live a single player attacking him in 3s

for more than a minute

[heavy cairn]

Maybe he doesn’t know how to play destro or doesn’t know mechanics as well because he cheesed ww?

[junior plover]

even if i perma ccd the other guy

[heavy cairn]

Plus playing caster if just diff

[junior plover]

the difference is SO ABSURD

between geared people

[novel wind]

shadowlands pvp is only better than bfa because azerite traits no longer exist

[junior plover]

and not geared people

[thorny venture]

why am I not?

[haughty compass]

High rated only players ok (1600)

[novel wind]

and covenant stuff is only slightly better than azerite in pvp

[clear pulsar]

I don't wanna bring it up just pls have some self awareness bro

[blissful belfry]

i will

opinion of bad players never mattered

[proven bridge]

anyone know if there is a way to use clique with bge or gladius?

[heavy cairn]

What is clique?

[blissful belfry]

an addon

[thorny venture]

You need those bad players to be interested or you go back to arena dying again like it was.

[heavy cairn]

That does what?

[novel wind]

arena has never been alive in the first place

[junior plover]

Also this

[novel wind]

arena is popular now because all the raiders need to do it for gear

[haughty compass]

There is a little bit of a boosting problem, for sure. And some specs just straight up counter others especially if there is a gear gap. 2100 players in rbg, hard stuck in 1400

[heavy cairn]

Arena has been really popular this xpac lol

[clear pulsar]

Arena was dying because you were forced to pve for gear, as pvp regardless of your rating didn't give you anything better than normal raid ilvl until 3 months into the season.

[novel wind]

without the pvp gear vendor it would just be dead again

[haughty compass]

Trying to play with my friends at low rating, it can be hard

[thorny venture]

Arena is popular purely cause you can buy a boost and gear instantly.

[edgy shale]

BOOSTERS GODDAM BOOSTERS

[thorny venture]

Not cause the gameplay is actually fun

[blissful belfry]

blizz cannot balance arena to give gear to bad players playing badly, otherwise you take away the meaning of being good at the game for getting good gear

[novel wind]

bad players playing badly will never get good gear

[thorny venture]

Except there are bad players with good gear from boosts, rbg, and pve

[heavy cairn]

That’s a big reach lol

[winter spindle]

WOD gearing was so much simpler

[haughty compass]

Fuck it I’m outta here. Lol

[blissful belfry]

u can literally just spam queue right now and get full 200 ilvl everywhere

[proven bridge]

it lets you bind keys to cast @atomic patroloverui on your unitframes

[thorny venture]

Spam and lose a million games

that's not fun

[blissful belfry]

you'll win half your games spamming enough

[winter spindle]

Yeah but then you got a 1-9 win loss ratio and no one is queuing with you for actual games lol

[heavy cairn]

You can win a lot of gear at low mmr with 194

[honest garden]

Lol some of you need to get good. You used to hand outs

[haughty compass]

Play 5000 games at 51% win rate, you’ll get up there. Look at supatease

[proven bridge]

so if i want to cast cyclone at someone i would like to be able to hover over their unit frame and hit M4

[heavy cairn]

A good mindset would be how do I get better? What did I do wrong?

How can I improve

[novel wind]

pvp doesn't need handouts

[heavy cairn]

And you’ll get better for sure

[novel wind]

just need gear to not matter

[blissful belfry]

you guys seem to not understand how mmr and queuing works.

[clear pulsar]

You can make a mouseover macro for that, I don't think clique works with arena/bg addons

[honest garden]

@heavy cairn speaking Truth

[proven bridge]

yeah that swhat i have resorted to, just not ideal for my playstyle and what im used to is all

[thorny venture]

If you have someone who's natural skill is around 1600, they'll still lose to someone who's natural skill level is 1300 and has double the hp

[blissful belfry]

yeah, how do i improved. thats a good mindset. it took me 150 fucking games on my pally alt to realize i had auras

then i improved a tiny bit

[clear pulsar]

If you have 20k hp you're in literal BFA gear tho @thorny venture

[blissful belfry]

[proven bridge]

since i have other binds on those keys and jsut want to use the easy to hit buttons with the ui mouseover

[clear pulsar]

You're just making complete non-points bro

[novel wind]

casual players do start in literal bfa gear though

[heavy cairn]

Just don’t focus on gear too much focus on gameplay lol

[clear pulsar]

All to justify that you don't like pvping and are completely unwilling to recognize that the answer is just improving your play

[heavy cairn]

And you’ll improve

Try your best to get gear then game

[blissful belfry]

Your gear will naturally improve, and your mmr will follow

[heavy cairn]

Really not much more to it

[blissful belfry]

just queue up

[haughty compass]

Nailed it

[novel wind]

sometimes the gameplay is "wow that rogue just killed me in his cheapshot"

[heavy cairn]

Because even if you do have gear you’ll lose at 1400 mmr cuz u don’t know how to play the game

[blissful belfry]

i was 800 mmr on my pally. at 160 ilvl, magically, im up at 199 ilvl because i bought conq gear and my mmr somehow jumped to 1400

i wonder what witchcraft made that

just play

the game

and you will have rewards

[novel wind]

no the game sucks

[clear pulsar]

You can get 197 armor + 187 weapon from just doing the covenant campaign, a 210 legendary after 1 reset, and pvp jewelry that have 140 vers each item for just doing your weekly pvp quests.

[blissful belfry]

well, if you dont like the game, you can just fuck off then cant ya

[thorny venture]

I enjoy pvp when you have a chance no matter your gear. Give me sl gearing and bfa scaling and I'd be playing pvp non stop

[clear pulsar]

@blissful belfry 1400 player on 220 ilvl main is SHOCKED and DISGUSTED that they can't get past that on a 200 ilvl alt.

[blissful belfry]

SHOCKING

YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT YOU'LL SEE NEXT

[thorny venture]

I haven't bothered with 2s cause I don't need to from rbgs as balance

[novel wind]

honestly the fact that people didn't like legion scaling just shows what the players actually think about pvp

[haughty compass]

My head hurts

[thorny venture]

Or if I do play arenas is just go get honor for the weekly cache and I don't care

[blissful belfry]

They should make it so gear doesnt matter in m+ no reason geared players are allowed to time +20 keys and i cant do it because my gear is bad and im new

[novel wind]

m+ isn't a pvp mode, the only way to scale pve difficulty is by scaling numbers

[thorny venture]

You can find a level you can win in pve. PvP as fresh chars means losing over and over

[blissful belfry]

its the exact same thing, the higher you go, the harder it is and the more gear matter

[junior plover]

Well you can also find a level you will win in pvp

but thats not high enough rating

to get any gear

[blissful belfry]

thats high enough rating to get 200 in all slots

and 200 in all slots is also m0 gear lvl

[thorny venture]

+7

[novel wind]

but gear shouldn't matter, it's pvp. The only thing that should matter is that you are the better player

and/or blizzard likes your class more

[thorny venture]

M0 is 184

[blissful belfry]

well, even better then

you can get up to m7 gear by being shit at the game and just queuing

[thorny venture]

But I'm miserable doing that so I'll just go do something else

I want it to be fun to gear up in PvP

[clear pulsar]

If you dont have fun playing arena

[thorny venture]

Fun means 50% chance to win to me

[clear pulsar]

Then it'll never be fun to gear in pvp

[blissful belfry]

You will lose as many games at high gear than at low gear mate. You will just queue against better player

you'll still lose

[thorny venture]

You lose so much more sub 200 ilvl

[blissful belfry]

i have what, 55% winrate in arena on my 2.2k main? i have about the same on my 1,4k alt

your mmr will make you win +/- 50%

you just need to lose the first 4-5 games max to have an adequate mmr

when you are a frsh toon

[clear pulsar]

I want to reroll necro on main

Am I crazy

[novel wind]

also playing resto feels like ass

[blissful belfry]

yeah, just verified, 54% winrate on my geared main, 53% winrate on my undergeared alt

2.2 vs 1.4

[thorny venture]

Has anyone made a video of say rdruid at 160 ilvl how many games it took them to get to conquest cap and the win rate

[blissful belfry]

you dont lose more when you have bad gear, your mmr is just lower

[novel wind]

god help anyone that tries resto at 160 ilevel

[blissful belfry]

true

[novel wind]

go into bear form and die to 3 condemns anyway

[thorny venture]

I just need to slam those games though

[blissful belfry]

low mmr and low gear i advise double dps

[clear pulsar]

God help anyone that's so dishonest as to argue about a situation that simply doesn't exist

[novel wind]

it does, i did 2s on my disc at 165 ilevel

not anymore, because it was terrible

[blissful belfry]

double dps 2s is much better than heal dps

[heavy cairn]

Well you could do campaign and get 197 that’s far better base then 160

[novel wind]

yeah but the campaign is boring af and i just wanted to pvp

[blissful belfry]

healer dps in low gear you cant kill anything and games are super long. much more efficient to spam double dps and get fast win / fast lose

[thorny venture]

I remember having a blast hitting level cap on disc priest in 8.0 and instantly starting PvP and getting to 1400

[heavy cairn]

If I had 160 I’d either do campaign or do rbgs

[novel wind]

how would you do RBGs

[clear pulsar]

You can get to 30k hp in your first day at max lvl right now

[heavy cairn]

But I do campaign cuz 197 is much better than 160

Not that hard

[novel wind]

you somehow got someone to invite you to a RBG group at 160 ilevel?

[heavy cairn]

Yes

Or you can make your own group

[blissful belfry]

i jumped straight in 2s and 3s on my alt 160 because i wanted to improve

im still bad

but less

[heavy cairn]

160 is a big diff than 197 tho

[blissful belfry]

and i got gear with time

[thorny venture]

Except most covenant gear has 0 vers

[blissful belfry]

vers matters so much less than what people think

[heavy cairn]

On my druid I had half cov gear half PvP gear

[blissful belfry]

especially at low mmr

[heavy cairn]

^

[blissful belfry]

i got 2.1 with 4% vers

[thorny venture]

I agree, but people want that 25% vers for those 1400 rbgs haha

[blissful belfry]

literally 4% vers cuz of pve

[heavy cairn]

You either make a yolo group

Or join one if ur gear sucks

And just grind lol

Rbgs are easy especially if u can just play objectives

[thorny venture]

That's fine if the grind is fun. My argument is that it currently is not fun for alts

[heavy cairn]

The catchup for conquest is not good

But I think gearing is fine

It could be a bit better

[blissful belfry]

doing games on an alt is as fun as it is doing them on my main (well, less sfun because i prefer boomy over ret, but thats off the topic)

[heavy cairn]

I personally am indifferent of scaling conquest ilvl gear but would prefer one item lvl so it’s only about skill

But idc either way

[thorny venture]

I like gear rewards and progression, but I also want fresh chars to have a chance and not just be fodder.

[heavy cairn]

The original statement was guy struggling at 194 ilvl as a destro trying to get 1400

Fresh chars are fresh

It’s an mmorpg

[novel wind]

it's barely a MMORPG at this point

[heavy cairn]

That’s beside the point it’s how wow has been forever

You’d get slammed in tbc-now as a fresh vs geared

[thorny venture]

That's why I'm fine with gear rewards and I'm glad they're back.

[heavy cairn]

It’s just how it is

[novel wind]

yeah but you didn't in legion

and slightly less in bfa

[heavy cairn]

Besides legion*

BFA u still did

[novel wind]

depends on when in BFA, actually

early BFA level 10s were destroying level 120s

was some real shit

[heavy cairn]

Well that’s an anomaly not Max lvl vs Max lvl

[thorny venture]

I did the same in 8.3. made a fresh holy paladin, got my assault armor blues and started queueing. Got to 1400, hit 1800 at some point before I finished KSM

[novel wind]

BFA was so fucked up you never wanted max ilevel iirc

you wanted greens with gem slots to cheese the stat scaling

[heavy cairn]

Did You play BFA lol?

[novel wind]

yeah

[heavy cairn]

It wasn’t that long ago

Scary throwing around that info

[clear pulsar]

That's cap lol

[heavy cairn]

Not true at all

[clear pulsar]

It wasnt true at all

[novel wind]

first it was azerite scaling, then it was shitty ilevel stuff, then it was tank trinkets

[lime light]

negative iq in my channel

as usual after sl release

[edgy shale]

hi el patron

[lime light]

Welcome

[blissful belfry]

Did you read it all, it makes for a good read to pass time at work

[clear pulsar]

@lime light I want haste vers as arms warr right?

[lime light]

ye

a bit mast is fine

crit is bad

[clear pulsar]

Ok just for leggo

Missives

[edgy shale]

dont go to the dark side

[clear pulsar]

Just from covenant gear and a drop from world boss

[thorny venture]

People can be allowed to want different things from the game. It's up to blizzard to figure out which solution makes the largest number of people happy. If they see participation in pvp on alts is down perhaps they'll do something

[novel wind]

well their metrics told them participation is up because gear vendor, so we're getting a pve gear vendor finally

[thorny venture]

Or if it's too many high skilled people tanking mmr on purpose to carry

[novel wind]

dunno how they missed that in the first place, but small indie company and all

[thorny venture]

No, we're getting pve upgrades

Not a vendor

[novel wind]

points, tokens, roughly the same thing. An actual bad-luck protection system

[thorny venture]

Imagine if we went back to pvp gear randomly dropping from wins in arena and you needed conquest to upgrade them

That's the new valor

[blissful belfry]

no

[thorny venture]

I don't want to go back to that. That's what I'm saying the valor system is

[blissful belfry]

im saying no as in, no its not that. Valor system still allows for a lot more targetting than what you compared

[novel wind]

in what way?

you still have to get the item first to upgrade it, no?

[blissful belfry]

If i want X piece i can jsut spam that specific dungeon til it drops. i can even have friends come in to help trade it

[novel wind]

you can already do that though

[blissful belfry]

Yes, but getting the item in dungeon is much more grindable than hoping for a specific random piece out of a pvp win

so it isnt really the same thing

[thorny venture]

Close enough

[blissful belfry]

depends on the point of view i guess. But its a pointless argument anyway

[novel wind]

either way the issue is still you getting fucked by RNG

i would've preferred the actual valor/frost system from wotlk but it doesn't really work with modern wow gearing

[blissful belfry]

valor system will be fine enough the way they made it. Making you be able to target the gear even more is almost pointless. by the time you gather your valor points, you'll have the pieces you want to up anyway

[summer field]

guys what legendary for balance should i use, I am using Dreambinder and having great results but I want to try something else (trying to avoid boat)

[blissful belfry]

its boat or dreambinder

[stray sigil]

bro this server is down bad when im afk

[blissful belfry]

dont try something else just cuz

[stray sigil]

dw daddy is here now

[blissful belfry]

praise