guardian

[noble locust]

[south badger]

that sounds good thanks man

also

Think my stats is far from optimal

Is Thrash cooldown affected by haste?

Again i played the char for like 3 days so i have close to zero knowledge about anything druid related

[tall basin]

do you press trash more often when you have lust up?
the answer is yes

[finite rivet]

does anyone know how buying voidcore with tokens works? like ive hit my max voidcores but if i buy one will i only get one voidcore next week?

[lucid arrow]

the token one is just an extra

you get the usual 2 per week regardless

[finite rivet]

ty

[sharp gale]

bear likes all stats really so don't think about that too much

[finite rivet]

are speed enchants actually BIS not leech or avoidance?

[late pagoda]

what's a gore proc? been watching andy videos and idk what's his conditions to press mangle besides tankiness

[daring nymph]

Hi yannis

U press mangle

[hazy mural]

gore proc is when mangle resets from damage u do

[pine thistle]

Hey. Back in the days bear could show their back to the mobs without getting crit. Is that still the case?

[still locust]

Crit is only if you do /sit

[half surge]

afaik - thrash is GCD related, like during incarnd u press thrash every other gcd and non incarn every 5th gcd, more haste = faster gcd = more thrashes = more dam/absorb

[still locust]

You can't dodge from the ass, but it's not usually going to kill you if you take a few hits now and then

You still should try to minimize getting hit from behind as much as you can

[still locust]

Every 4 GCDs, but otherwise yes

[half surge]

yeah, ty for clarification

[still locust]

All 3 tertiary stats are sort of meh for us (and all tanks, really)

They all have things they help with, but none are ever really impactful

Except maybe sometimes speed

Which is why it's recommended

[finite rivet]

so since its meh may as well do all speed to have a little faster

gotcha

[still locust]

Avoidance is probably the worst for tanks (but still okay) since most of the damage you take isn't considered aoe

And anything that is aoe is usually never lethal to us

[finite rivet]

i have like 3 myth items with leech so i was thinking about stacking that with my encahtns

[still locust]

There's no real gain to stacking it like that

Each point is the same value, ish

So just enchant for the one you prefer, and consider the ones on your gear extra benefits

[left lantern]

"buffed" mangle that gives 4 more rage than normal, thats all it does

[late pagoda]

Wanted to check the raidbots for tank druid but it's fucked XD

[still locust]

Hm?

How is it fucked?

[late pagoda]

well it's only assumptions but doing trash incarn trash sounds like a basic for me on a trash spam based build, but the sim isn't doing it

[half surge]

ok but.. how does it cchanges the fact it does sims for many items and chooses one who did the most dam?

[still locust]

The sim isn't a rotational tool to look at like that, and pressing thrash incarn thrash or not isn't going to change your stat priorities

[half surge]

doesnt matter what rotation u do.. more dam = more dam regardless rotation u do

if u do more dam per 1 use

[still locust]

It's actually a fairly small min-max to do thrash inc thrash

I believe it actually says above the ability timeline thing that "this is not to be followed as a rotation"

[left lantern]

it actually is

incarn thrash means versatility becomes better than crit in the long run

thrash incarn thrash makes versatility better than mastery and crit

you are right though that it doesnt change the fact that versatility is by far the best secondary stat for bear because it makes us so tanky and deal a lot of damage

[still locust]

?

You're joking right

[left lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-fire-fireplace-close-eyes-trying-not-to-laugh-gif-6468484066733403642

[half surge]

even considering this, for the time being (now) vers is mostly worse stat for everything just cuz it gives the worst % for amount given.. like 100 vers is worse than 100 crit in % numbers (u gonna get more crit when u get 100 crit rating than vers rating) but its sooo unworthy to spend time thinking

[late pagoda]

i mean yes obviously it's not gonna change stats priorities coz it's a trash based build but if the sim is doing rotationnal mistakes (i'm not even talking about the mangle coz there's none on st rotation and ppl are not sure if we should press it or not) it can affect the stats a little bit and by accumulating "mistakes" it can maybe be a big deal (keep in mind this is straight out of my head i'm not a theorycrafter or anything)

[tall basin]

You want the discord to burn right? XD

[still locust]

I get what you're trying to get at, but it's not that impactful

[late pagoda]

and that's very wrong

that's why we playing haste and not versa based build

[half surge]

its like a conversation about which is better - press mangle or mangleless playstyle

[left lantern]

i mean let me ask you this:

you have 1000 euro in your pocket, you have a 1% chance to gamble and double it or to just keep the 1000 or you are guaranteed to receive 1% more money every time you would gamble but don't do it - this is 1% crit vs. 1% versatility.

be wise. choose versatility over gambling addictions.

[tall basin]

"IF YOU PRESS MANGLE 1 TIME/KEY IT's 100% WIPE!!"
XD

[half surge]

exactly.. i am personally pressing mangle when i know i would need incarn soon and get CDR for incarn

[olive hare]

Bold take: Sim doesnt do that because while its a minimal gain for no apex, its not necessarily a gain for apex builds. And i can perfectly relate to catha not spending hours and hours on some weird conditions for a build which 99% sure wont survive 12.1

[still locust]

Okay but vers is only 0.5% damage reduction per %, and crit is 1% chance to take 100% reduced damage from auto attacks

[half surge]

thats my thoughts

[left lantern]

so you have a gambling problem is what you are saying

[half surge]

ufffff

[tall basin]

aye i start pressing mangle too in some bossfight when i need next pull incarn. skyreach first boss is something like this

[half surge]

crazy how many ppl turn brains off and dont realize this...

[late pagoda]

ye pulling for incarn or for instant tankiness sounds ok for me

[half surge]

thats a sad part of wow community

"BUT BUT not pressing mangle is more daaaaam BRUUUUH"

[late pagoda]

but i think i saw andy pressing it "dps wise"

[half surge]

why? idk.. dude on YT said that

[left lantern]

me personally, I press swipe instead of mangle

[half surge]

[still locust]

Depends on build and stuff

I would still always recommend pressing mangle whenever you can (and thrash is on CD)

Just because of how it smoothes out your gameplay

[half surge]

agree

pressing mangle doesnt make ur dps go 0

and even more better in urgent situation when u need IF asap

[still locust]

And it's a good habit to get into because ain't no way they're gonna let us keep getting away with not pressing the first talent on our talent tree

[half surge]

sadly ppl dont have enough brains to think themselves

[still locust]

And when maul is pressed, mangle is pressed because you need the rage

[half surge]

and just follow what a guy on YT said

[late pagoda]

okay but what i don't get is, why is he sometimes pressing it sometimes not, it doesn't make sense to me (on a boss where i consider he's not in danger but i may be wrong )

[still locust]

Maybe he's trying to not fall asleep

[left lantern]

"i dont follow what the guy on YT says, I instead choose to follow what a random guy on discord says"

[still locust]

We can only guess at why he specifically does it

[half surge]

F F F

[still locust]

You're allowed your opinion, but most of the stuff promoted in here is based on stuff other than "idk, I just don't like pressing maul"

[left lantern]

im glad you are finally biting, it's been hard to ragebait you

[olive hare]

Tbf this discord also said that apex would still do more dmg than no apex after that thrash buff. Didnt age too well. Just like the Claim that its always better to mangle Instead of mf fill

*in m+ ofc

[still locust]

I still stand firm on the statement that apex is significantly more USEFUL damage

Who the fuck cares about how much you can pad with thrash on 40 mobs

[trim plaza]

^

[still locust]

Nopex does fine overall damage

[left lantern]

because mangle has been part of the core rotation since forever and if you have played 1 season of bear (which was the case in dragonflight and shadowlands, meta-wise) then it's very hard to get rid of the habit to press mangle off cd - and I am very much convinced that this goes for Andy as well.

Maybe also just to not fall asleep, as was said above... it is a very boring rotation otherwise

[still locust]

But overall damage isn't the whole picture

[late pagoda]

no it's not, on 2nd boss of skyreach 23 he had not press it a single time

[olive hare]

"Pad damage" nominated for Guardian buzzword of the year. Are keys gated by prio dps?

[late pagoda]

when you're pushing keys this level you don't care if your rotation is 2 buttons you can't fall asleep anyway

[left lantern]

ok, and?
its a good ability to press while gathering for aggro, its good if you need rage to survive (or to reduce incarn cdr, as was also mentioned above) and it still does significant damage, it just doesn't reset lunar beam

[late pagoda]

you ragebaiting right?

[half surge]

def not by tank prio damage...

[olive hare]

And lunar beam is crucial for no apex, so? Setting LB to a static 30s would make that whole build explode.

[left lantern]

tank dps is the most irrelevant metric to time a key, you could do a 0% parse and still time the key if you pull big enough

[half surge]

if ur dpses do like 60k st dam in 23.. u do 40k, u are cooked

[late pagoda]

not in 24 keys

[still locust]

That's cope

[late pagoda]

don't talk about things you don't know :p

[left lantern]

its not cope, it is what is happening in most keys

[still locust]

The idea that tank damage doesn't matter in keys has always been cope by people who don't want to do damage and want an excuse

[half surge]

in most keys "3rd boss of seat" happens brotha

[still locust]

So they say it doesn't matter

It has always mattered

[half surge]

ppl take shit they are not supposed to take and die/waste CRs

[left lantern]

i dont want an excuse though, all im saying is that if you play semi-decent, pull big enough and do mediocre ST you can still time a very big portion of keys at title-range level... can you do it in literal world first keys? absolutely not. anything below that sure.

[still locust]

So you're perfectly fine with, and never complain, if one of the 3 dps does 60k less overall dps?

[tall basin]

on this class dicords people should post there raider.io profil before they start talking XD
something i have the feeling that 10-12er key pumpers talk the most XD

[late pagoda]

title range keys may be ok but your dps should do the extra job for you and that's not very respectfull

[still locust]

That's the wrong attitude

[left lantern]

ofc i do complain, what is the job of a damage dealer (hint: its in the name)

[still locust]

Right but why does the tank get a free-pass then?

It's not hard to do decent dps as a tank

[left lantern]

because its in the name as well

[lucid arrow]

bro is baiting hard

[still locust]

You're stuck in 2004 with that mentality

[left lantern]

never said it was

[half surge]

but most ppl cant even execute that...

[lucid arrow]

of course it's relevant if you're doing dmg, maybe it won't make or break most keys but shaving that time off by contributing to dps will make any key easier

[left lantern]

imo that is a different topic 🙂
obviously have more damage helps shave off time - still you would almost never go back after a deplete, rewatch a vod or check the log and be like "ah ye, tank did 5k less dps on the boss because he mangle'd instead of moonfire, that was the issue here"

so what i was saying is:

[lucid arrow]

5k no

0 parse to 99 parse

could make a difference

[left lantern]

is like

20k difference overall?

[half surge]

and doesnt matter that a warrior lets say died 3 times, wasted all the CRs and in the end triggered mechanic on some1 else and killed 1 more ppl with him

[narrow coral]

What’s to avg overall a bear should have in like low keys ?

[left lantern]

ofc that matters, you are twisting the topic

[olive hare]

Big difference. Tank damage is still worth 15-20% of the entire comps throughput.

[half surge]

like 100k

[left lantern]

dying is always bad, regardless of what role you play - idk why you start bringing that up now

[late pagoda]

tell me you've never depleted a key because of tank dps without saying it

[still locust]

doing low damage is always bad, regardless of what role you play

[half surge]

cuz.. most of the time dps isnt what brick the key...

[crisp jasper]

why do people sometimes run fluid form in m+?

whats the uses

[still locust]

For heart of the wild

[left lantern]

could agree with that, yes.
which also supports my argument

[olive hare]

Feels more fluid

[narrow coral]

Bc snare remove when u switch forms etc

[crisp jasper]

huh?

[narrow coral]

Heart of the wild heals

Or moonkin pulls

[crisp jasper]

you dont need the talent for that?

[half surge]

cuz while i agree with ur take i still would like tanks to squeeze out all the dps by just doing his rotation and not stay afk

[still locust]

No but it makes it feel less shit

[still locust]

And mangling back into bear means you have enough rage for an ironfur

[narrow coral]

u won’t die with fluid form when switch to travelform

[half surge]

cuz.. like i play tank ye? and i see my dps vs others dps and sometimes im like... "guys do u even press buttons? or just stay afk?"

[sharp gale]

but that means having to keybind mangle! the horror!

[shut jasper]

there's also a weird positive bug with fluid that lets you get more rage, iirc if you shift back manually you get extra rage if you mangled at least once last time you were in bear form

if you have fluid form talented

[lucid arrow]

especially when the rotation is thrash moonfire

[left lantern]

can also agree with that, yes.

generally speaking they should look to improve their play and play better -> do more dps

all i was originally trying to say is that EVEN IF SOMEHOW you parse 0 (which would still be like 80k overall, 30k on bosses) it is almost never exclusively your fault for a depleted key AND YOU CAN STILL TIME 21s maybe even 22s without any issue with that performance, which would (as of right now) award you with an m+ title

[half surge]

maaybe its cuz when u shift out at 0 rage, and back into bear it gives u 25 base rage when shift into bear again? its not like a bug afaik

[shut jasper]

I mean more than 25

[half surge]

25+magle 21 = 46 rage

[tall basin]

26?

[shut jasper]

iirc gnome said it's the same as a fluid mangle without actually pressing it

[half surge]

anyway.. i dont think its a bug

its just... spaghetti code and works as intended

otherwise it would be fixed already aand stated as bug

[still locust]

You shouldn't assume that

Bugs aren't automatically just fixed because they're known

[shut jasper]

pretty sure the incarn bug has existed since incarn became a thing so there's that

[half surge]

i mean.. its not that big of a deal and not considered much used anyway for it to matter if its get fixed, like not many ppl even know about that even less use it

[lyric wraith]

Repitching the question, but watching andybrew's +24 nexus, should you be able to outheal the first pull just through incarn + barkskin on pull by thrashing and moonfiring/lunar beaming? Or does healer incoming heals also play a big part in that?

Where you pull all the way to the seer with like 6 defenders

He seems to facetank it the most part, but does't seem to fall behind against the absorb shields, where I usually just end up in a giant absorb shield for multiple health bars -- is it the slower setup that he does that gives him more healing? Noticed he lunar beams instantly off the rip, and doesn't frenzied regen while gathering nor does it much while in incarn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk28FwN-XbE&t=353s

[kindred meteor]

what can I fix here to do more damage?

[half surge]

swap this for the beam one, will give u more rage = more incarns

[burnt sandal]

I mean are you looking at logs to confirm he’s not using FR in incarn?! The pull count isn’t that high and it looks like when combat drops he’s sitting around 200K HPS

[lucid arrow]

he is FRing

you can see rejuv from fr pop up

that said he's not pressing it too much because he has a good MW monk

and an evoker

if you have a similar setup with a good MW monk and a team thats playing well enough to not eat avoidable dmg and need healer attention then yeah you can survive that pull with just barkskin, incarn and a few FRs

if you have some yeeyeeass healer and dps constantly needing heals too you will have to do a lot more to survive

[hazy mural]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xJqFpNdBDQgL8PZk?fight=7&type=healing&source=3&pull=1&options=16384

[burnt sandal]

Yea I’m at work so I didn’t wanna pull them up but I figured that was the case

[waxen bane]

does Reinvigoration consume DoC?

[burnt sandal]

In a buggy way yes. You don’t get the bonus and it consumes

[waxen bane]

it consumes a stack but doesnt get 130% buff?

[burnt sandal]

Sorry DoC works

Dream guide is bugged

[waxen bane]

how so

[burnt sandal]

Dream guide goes off automatically. But using FR eats a charge and doesn’t give the 100% bonus

So you lose a stack for an unbuffed regrowth that you would have gotten anyway instead of being utilized when someone got low automatically

[waxen bane]

ah i see

[burnt sandal]

Lots of people still run guide and just sorta deal with it because they don’t wanna spent GCDs on regrowth

[pale sluice]

If I'm comparing logs, and I see that myself and another gdruid have basically the same amount of casts on thrash, moonfire, lunarbeam, incarn, SR and similar uptimes across the board but they're doing significantly higher dps what else should I be looking at? Pull sizes? The most glaring thing I see on the timeline is much higher spikes in damage on their side. I'm obviously doing something simple wrong I just can't see it

[waxen bane]

maybe pots too

[burnt sandal]

Cast per minute is probly a better overall metric instead of just cast.

Just in case one dungeon is taking longer or shorter than the other. Also keep in mind key level would mean packs are up longer due to health scaling and even if your thrash count is similar his are hitting more mobs the majority of the time

[lyric wraith]

its not a vibezz healer but one of the more solid na healers at 4k, I meant moreso on that regard of him not pressing it as much

i was having to spam mash it in 22 and still getting nuked by shields

[burnt sandal]

I would say 11 times in the first pull is actually kinda pressing it that much

[lucid arrow]

i mean by spam mash i assume you mean refreshing the hot and not just actual gcd pressing it

but ye 11 times he's pressing it quite a bit

healer healing profile matters too tho

getting fed cocoons up the bum is good for pressing less defensives

[burnt sandal]

Also @lyric wraith I know it’s not optimal and kinda vibes based but if you are struggling with it I wonder if shifting some points into forest walk exclusively for the 16% healing buff would make a meaningful difference in you clearing shields

I am a big big forestwalk enjoyer. But once again vibes.

[cloud pebble]

Yo guys, what add-on do you use for markers? I use Opie, but I don’t find it very user-friendly

[lyric wraith]

I was doing that before, I could go back to doing it

I swear the hardest thing for me in nexus is that first pull, I timed the 21 not doing but I don't think you can get away with that in 22

[pale sluice]

that's what I'm seeing with this log comparison - CPM for thrash is 1 less per minute overall. My potion use is definitely a problem, but accoring to the logs the other druid used none. I'm comparing my 17 MC to his 18MC and his spikes are much higher than mine.

maybe his casts during incarn are much tighter

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/wK2qC4Vh7tyAJb8F/AYqh1WQT76rGBxft?fight=1%2C3&source=1%2CAndydruid&type=summary

if anyone wants to dig

[dense turret]

As a mw I always soothing mist envelopping mist the tank until things are packed for spinning

Should help a lot for absorbs
I also see many guardian bump the 2nd 2 mobs toward the entrance so they don’t hit while going around the beams

[terse heart]

what ilvl do i need as a new bear before i should attempt to tank a 10

[dense turret]

Depends on your xp as a tank
It is possible at 230-40, probably even lower

[hazy mural]

moment u hit 90, if ur confident enough, can do 12s easily

[narrow coral]

What should be my 2nd embellishment craft .. I got wrist arcane lining, myth cloak with crit / haste , myth boots with crit/haste , heroic waist with versa/haste + socket , myth crit/versa chest with lifesteal procc (from seat) .. i mean obvious would be the heroic waist but what about longevity? 🤔

[olive hare]

Yeah did my first 10s at 235 ilvl and it was a snoozefest except for some threat issues. And thats been before that yuge thrash buff. I think right now you can blast 12s with some 220ish WQ and AH stuff.

[hazy mural]

or even less I bet

[narrow coral]

I did my first m+ dungeon at 232 with some warband stuff and reputation gear was a 11 seat xD

[hazy mural]

double lining works

[narrow coral]

Yeah I know was more curious about what item to replace statwise

[hazy mural]

its more about the slot tbh

best 2 are cloak and wrists

since they give the least overall stat budget

[versed gorge]

Just habe to push your own key or have a friend because nobody will inv you at that ilvl, or even at 250 or 260 lol

[narrow coral]

Okay thanks, but I’ll w8 till I upgraded every item I got so far then

[red knoll]

Im healing 12s at 210 ilvl

Idk

If you have io attached its fine

[narrow coral]

That’s gonna change quick anyways like 15 hours played lvl 90 an I was 282+

[hazy mural]

gonna try and push up 1 of my bears, see how difficult it will be

[long roost]

hey, on bosses when I catform/hotw, 1. do you need to let the full channel happen to actually get all the daamge, 2. do you stay in cat long enough to rip

[rustic kestrel]

just hit hotw and immediately go back

never rip/bite, doesnt do any damage

[lucid arrow]

i have it macroed to castsequence cat hotw bear

gotta reduce those button presses

[long roost]

could you share that castsequence macro w/ me?

i've been casting rake, hotw,mangle basicallly

[smoky kestrel]

I often saw on this Discord that mastery was considered better defensively than versatility, so I wanted to verify whether that was actually true by calculating it myself.
After struggling for quite a while with the formula to use, I ended up with the one shown in my screenshot.

A few explanations about the equation: EHP means effective health points / 681000 is my HP pool in full gear without taking mastery into account / 0.056 corresponds to the 5.6% mastery given by default to Guardian Druid / 1 point of mastery gives 0.0152% max HP / 0.06 corresponds to the 6% DR buff from Call of the Wild and the talent / 1 point of versatility gives 0.0093% damage reduction / 0.35 corresponds to 35% magical DR with talents and 2 stacks of Ironfur. Here I only considered magical damage, but the result is the same for armor.

I told ChatGPT that I had 1000 points to allocate between mastery and versatility and that it had to calculate the corresponding EHP for me.

From the result, we can clearly see that mastery is ahead of versatility (purely from a defensive standpoint here). But the difference is not that significant since the maximum difference is only 3.08%.

What is even more interesting is that the second passive effect of mastery increases healing received from all sources (yourself or your healer), whereas versatility only provides additional self-healing.

Another interesting point is that versatility scales exponentially, but here the amounts are still too low for it to have any meaningful impact.

As for damage, sims will do a much better job than I can.

If you notice any mistake, feel free to point it out to me.

[slate mountain]

Hello ! Do u have any information about a fix for walking nightmare aggro ?

[quaint pond]

no blizz almost never acknowledges bugs & even rare they give details on when if ever they'll be fixed

just have to wait and see if it gets fixed in 12.0.7, if not then maybe 12.1

[red knoll]

I dont know if its really classified as a bug

Its certainly inconvenient

But if youre targeting a mob youre not in combat with and WN procs i think its intended to cast on the target

[quaint pond]

well the pulling on target thing is a bug if that's what's happning but maybe there's other stuff wrong with it

could be entirely unrelated who knows

[red knoll]

I think its just how the spell works

Which is unfortunate

[dry oxide]

is there a macro to put you in feral and cat HoTW, without it casting the base form one

[sharp gale]

aint no way u asked chatgpt
🫵 😹

[violet holly]

need a wowhead post if you want it fixed

[smoky kestrel]

Why ?

[red knoll]

Ai is cringe and riddled with issues

[stiff phoenix]

Just timed my second 16, this 3.4k thing seems doable after all

[smoky kestrel]

I just asked him to calculate, not elaborate the formula, I could have done it with a calculator but it would just take me longer

[red knoll]

Using it promotes the spread of ai

Only way to fight back against it is to make it clear to the companies using it that we dont want it

[rustic kestrel]

im not saying it came up with the wrong thing, but I just put everything you wrote into chatgpt and said "tell me why its wrong" it gave me 10 reasons why

Ai is just mostly garbage spat back out at you

[forest flume]

should post that a full-bear raid killed heroic lura instead, to get more thrash nerfs

[high path]

You could also just

Ask

We have the formula in wolfram

But also

This is faulty to begin with since you just input numbers that are specific to you or magic numbers (where do you get that 35% magic Dr for example)

[smoky kestrel]

it's a point of view

[smoky kestrel]

but what to do with I have done ?

[smoky kestrel]

already asked without answer sadly

[high path]

Also I'm not sure you makes the difference between rating and point in the formula

Which would make it fuck up

[red knoll]

Na, Ai from every point of view right now is a losing prospect. It cannot perform simple tasks better as it commonly gets them wrong without extremely rigorous guidelines. Its more expensive than just hiring people to do it. Its a novelty thing rn and thats all people are hyped about

[high path]

And having the Dr from call of the wild and separated from the rest

Makes no real sense to me

[red knoll]

And generative Ai is just straight plagiarism

[high path]

If you want to treat it as just Dr it should be separated

But if it's not

I do not understand how you get to 35% dr

[smoky kestrel]

it's more specific to someone full geared, not just me, like I said. Magic DR come from talent : Tick hide (4%) / Glistening Fur (3%) / Ursol's Warding (6.6% asuming you used 2 ironfur, it's the middle for pack) / Scintillating Moonlight (12%) / Rend and Tear (15% assuming you have 5 stacks)

[rustic kestrel]

It has its uses if you give it specific use cases, but when asking information, it will often spit out what it thinks you want to hear

I have made multiple addons with it for example with a limited programming background

[torn depot]

AI is decent for simple tasks that are easily automated

but thats as far as i would use it tbh, anything more complex and its full of problems and mitigating them is a pain in the ass

not to mention the insane costs that are being subsidised right now which isn't viable in the long term at all

[red knoll]

Its good at doing one task you program it to do

But like

[high path]

Right i forgot glistening was real, new question then, why is that important

Cause

[red knoll]

Might as well just do it yourself at that point

[torn depot]

if you want to make a simple application, or a simple interface it will do pretty good

[high path]

It doesn't matter for what you're mathing

You're comparing what the stat does

[torn depot]

it can save you some time and all you have to do is smaller adjustments and bugfixing

[smoky kestrel]

Wym ? COTW stack additionally with your polyvalence, it give you 6% (so 3% DR) all the time, no matter how much versatility you get

[high path]

Both stay benefit equally from w/e other Dr you have

So the Dr being here serves no purpose

[smoky kestrel]

It's was just to calculate the formula for EHP with versa and mastery, not really much more

[high path]

Yes

I understand

I'm telling you it fails at this

Because it doesn't compare the stats to each other

Since you include magic Dr in the vers part

[smoky kestrel]

it compare eacxh other for EHP, with everything taking into account, I don't understand what you mean

This DR from magic change nothing to the conclusion, but it's the full formula, that's it

[high path]

If it changes nothing why is it here

For reference this is the equation btw

Need to update for stat value in mid

But

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i2d=true&i=Divide[1%2B0.007\(40)Divide[m%2C180]%2B8\(41)%2C1-\(40)Divide[v%2C41000]%2B0.055\(41)]

[hearty yoke]

hey guys - can I still achieve this colour of guardian by doing 10 rbg wins right now? I achieved the mage tower challenge back then, but didnt waste my time in PVP 🙁

[high path]

Yes

[red knoll]

I think if you did mt challenge for that spec you can still unlock the alternative colors ues

[hearty yoke]

BIG thanks!

[sharp gale]

does blitz count for it btw

bcuz i cant imagine rbg to be popular at all rn but blitz is

[red knoll]

Imagine they took the time to balance bgs and racials

Then we could have real pvp

[smoky kestrel]

It's not in the vers part, it's in the DR part, wich is where DR goes. EHP = HP / ( 1 - DR )
It's not versa part, it's DR part

And the formula without explication is a bit hard to understand here

because this is formula of what ? EHP ? ratio for versa vs mastery ?

[high path]

I understand what you're doing but you're question started because you wanted to understand why we keep saying mastery is better than Vers for survival no ?

[smoky kestrel]

yep

[high path]

If you want to do that then you need to translate each point of Vers and mastery to ehp

To be able to compare

[smoky kestrel]

it's not what i did ?

[high path]

No cause you're not using the correct value

[smoky kestrel]

"1 point of mastery gives 0.0152% max HP
1 point of versatility gives 0.0093% damage reduction"

[high path]

You need to use the point rather than rating for mastery

Because ratings aren't real for mastery

The 0.007 in the formula I linked

[smoky kestrel]

i did with testing in the game

[high path]

That's the mastery value per point when looking at rating

[smoky kestrel]

and the point for mastery and versa match what i got in game

[high path]

Okay but that's still not how the game calculates mastery

[smoky kestrel]

let me just a moment to show you my calculate

[high path]

So like 1 rating for bear doesn't mean the same than 1 for dk

So you need to bring it back to the value everyone uses

Which is mastery point

I know it sounds stupid because the game doesn't tell you this

But that's how it works

[still locust]

This discussion is moot anyway

[high path]

Also the game lies

[still locust]

The original post was "I keep seeing people say mastery is better than vers defensively" and while that is true we ALSO keep repeating "it's to such a small degree that it doesn't matter anyway, gear for dps"

[high path]

And it's not 0.75

But 0.7

Idk why on that one

Blizzard is evil ?

Who knows

[smoky kestrel]

Bear tank have +5.6% HP max as base mastery
When I get, with my stuff, 544 mastery point, I get +13.9% HP max
So minus the base mastery, I get +8.28% HP max so for 1 point of mastery, I got +0.0152% HP max.
I tried with different item and the formula is linear in the game.

[high path]

Okay but again

That's mastery rating

[still locust]

Uhhh....

I'm pretty sure base mastery is 6.0% max hp?

[smoky kestrel]

maybe the game show bad thing idk

[still locust]

Not necessarily, wowhead could also be wrong

[high path]

And again when you're doing that you're not converting each point of Vers to ehp and similar to mastery

You're comparing a distribution

Which is not the same

When we're saying mastery is better than vers

We mean

1 to 1

And you need like

Idr

15k Vers I think

For mastery to pass ahead

Granted the difference isn't significant

It's just there

[still locust]

But also

The original post was "I keep seeing people say mastery is better than vers defensively" and while that is true we ALSO keep repeating "it's to such a small degree that it doesn't matter anyway, gear for dps"

[high path]

And it's mostly irrelevant since it's really comparing you doing nothing

[smoky kestrel]

But if i use my formula with my actual mastery and with 0 DR, i got exactly the amount of HP I have actualy, idk how this can't work for EHP

[high path]

With Vers Vs mast

[high path]

It's not that it doesn't work, it's that you're comparing a specific distribution of stats
While the equation we used compares stats directly to each other

It's just doing something different

[smoky kestrel]

yeah and we did that in lol and it worked

it's just different way to calculate

the curve for EHP between HP and Armor in lol is doing this way

the difference is in lol we use gold for stat and here we use point for % of stat

I probably miss a thing, but thank for trying to help me understand

[smoky kestrel]

for me, trying to understand what people tell you is all time better than just following without question, even more when pro player don't do the same.

[cedar sparrow]

hey all I am looking for a destination for my bonus rolls. I need legs and and want heart of wind also for offspec resto. is heart of wind good as passive trinket instead of puzzle box for m+?

legs and heart of win both drop in windrunner spire

[red knoll]

Its fine but its nowhere near puzzlebox or guidon in output

[cedar sparrow]

i got puzzle box but want an option for passive trinket. wahat do you mean with guidon?

[red knoll]

Guidon is our non channel on use option

[dusk spire]

Is 2 on uses troll bc i like my box + plume setup

[red knoll]

Plume isnt an on use

[cedar sparrow]

plume is elusive 😛

no i am runnin g gaze and puzzle box + passive trinket from timerunner nobody has, wth haste proc. sims better thhen heart of wind but both i have on hc.

[red knoll]

Yeah blizzard used to be good at designing trinkets

[still locust]

Plume is a passive trinket, the on use is for out of combat swapping between it giving crit or mastery

[cedar sparrow]

i know but i cant bonus roll in every place

[still locust]

Hm?

[olive hare]

Not that long ago tbh. Pbox smells like a wish stone idol.

[cedar sparrow]

i have been unlucky and miss legs , hatrings and id just like toi have anothe passive trinket, my other toons are much more lucky with drops

[olive hare]

He was answering to Flimbo, I think you missed that

[cedar sparrow]

i just cant decide on spot to use bonus roll on , I am not getting closer 😛

[olive hare]

How many do you still have? Besides, sharing your current gear could help figuring out a strat, if you wanna do the minmax.

[cedar sparrow]

got 2 bonus rolls and still have to choose in a complicated vault. missing hat legs rings and wish for another passive trinket

so i had nexus point among others but that doesnt drop legs or hat

i will share gear in a moment yes that better

https://raider.io/characters/eu/lightbringer/Anduviel + i do have puzzle box instead of werid trinket

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/coNPYX9ToJcd4KuZGYzcBq

[olive hare]

Seat it is it seems. Both missing armor pieces, rings are decent and getting myth cloak/bracers would at least be a small upgrade by putting arcano on pants as long as you dont have those.

Plus the trinket is not that bad either, its pretty strong in AoE and still does okay in single target.

But trinketwise if you dont wanna rock that puzzle box, just farm a hero prism/heart and call it a day.

[plucky dirge]

is there like a minimum amount of crit/mastery i should go for as a guardian druid or am i fine to lump it all into haste>vers?

[hazy mural]

think they already have 2 emb... cloak and wrists

[formal stream]

Hi, do you have an easy/pug friendly route for Maisara ? This is my last dungeon and I'm really struggling.

I'm using Lindormi's guidance, but I feel like it's really bad for this dungeon. It makes me go left after the first pull.

[olive hare]

But if he gets a mythic cloak/wrist from seat he can equip it and put arcano on his craft pants.

(or go for loa ring, its pretty decent with haste gems)

[hazy mural]

not very good long term tho, pants is big stat budget

[olive hare]

Bro we have uncapped crests and he already crafted those, zero loss.

[hazy mural]

with the way the rolls are, id just play the long game and target everything but wrists and cloak

[cedar sparrow]

thanks 🙂

[olive hare]

Which again points towards seat -> two rings, legs, head. But also some okay sidegrades

[hazy mural]

lemmie see if I can get mine

yep, and then leave the WR trinkets for last

just not sure if pants crafting would be good thats all

[red knoll]

Youre at the level where you absolutely should stop using lindormis

Mc is more about managing what your healer can heal in the first room than anything

If your group and healer can handle mammoths theyre by far the best thing to go for but otherwise its picking up a bunch of little shit and one mammoth

[glass coyote]

Looking for advice. Fully geared 291 finishing resil 19s. Want to get 1% title.

I see the advice, gear/SIM for dps. At what point in mythic + keys would you prioritize survivability over DPS? Asking because I can swap a few pieces around right now to play with stats.

[dusk spire]

I know, i was asking in relation to the comment that pbox + guidon were best for output because i don’t want to switch off of plume onto another on use

[hazy mural]

https://keystone.guru/route/maisara-caverns/7hmcqHJ/route-2/edit/2

[outer cave]

Today on AA i wasn't really kiting on pull 1 and my stacks went to 0 a number of times. I didnt have aug and was with hpal. Do hpals have ability to remove or was I kiting without realizing

[hazy mural]

this is what I use atm

[red knoll]

Well you should be 290 not 291

Theres no reason to not have two embellishments

[hazy mural]

pull 15 depends on how ballsy ur feeling, can break it up and do some of it 1st then pull rest into boss

[hazy mural]

1 of the big adds got deleted

[red knoll]

If youre looking for optimizations I would craft wrists and cloak

But otherwise not really out damage is directly related to our hps and mitigation

Our*

[glass coyote]

290.75 I think with the 2 embel. I was rounding up

[outer cave]

Whaaat when?

[red knoll]

Our secondary stats are mostly a feel thing

[hazy mural]

the trick is survivability mostly comes from dungeon knowledge and u add in ur knowledge of the spec to make life easier for uself

the stats dont really matter

[dusk spire]

Rephrasing my question because i know plume isn’t on use, is guidon > plume for output when i already use pbox

[red knoll]

No

2 on uses is never worth it

[vocal tundra]

is there anyway to stop the mobs from moving left and right while tanking? already using savoury deviate delight

[red knoll]

For tanks

[hazy mural]

u would have to sim for that =/

[dusk spire]

Ty this is what i was asking

[hazy mural]

no one can really say

[red knoll]

Deviate delight doesnt change ur hitbox

Lol

[vocal tundra]

my party cant stack under ravager cause it keeps moving

meh

any fix?

[hazy mural]

u can have 1 on use 1 passive, or double passive

and can sim to see what is best

[hazy mural]

nope, big mobs like to move around u cause fuck u xD

[olive hare]

Thats a thing blizz never managed to fix for bears it seems

Priory 1st pull you know

[hazy mural]

I still remember the miniboss dragons in RLP

annoying af when they keep moving

the one that kicked u back with the breath and ur tryna position urself not to get knocked to africa

[vocal tundra]

yes....

[slim tinsel]

can you skip the first ravager after u land after crawth without rogue/lock?

[hazy mural]

the one in front of the wind?

[red knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/zimbita-world-of-warcraft-wow-priory-of-the-sacred-flame-gif-12847891122108903749

[slim tinsel]

ye

[hazy mural]

u hug the edge and jump off there

[red knoll]

Yes

You just jump to the left

Off the bridge

[hazy mural]

its something most ppl do properly these days

once in a while someone falls off and it makes my day tho xD

[formal stream]

thanks, but isn't 15 a very risky pull in pug ?

[hazy mural]

its risky for u

cause they all do tank damage, the ones with shields usually get broken before u have the boss add aoe go off

and u just have to keep kicking the caster so he joins the boss fight properly

but u can also kill the caster first and then pull the 2 warrs on each side into boss... less mobs in total but safer

[rustic kestrel]

lmfao you cant pull that all onto boss in a real key

[hazy mural]

for even more pad or "funnel", u can tell ppl not to cc the adds when they try to die so th ey stay alive but then gotta becareful as they stack a damage buff the longer they are alive

[hazy mural]

just live!

only thing that does group damage is when shields break

[rustic kestrel]

you are getting dread slashed to death during tankbuster

[hazy mural]

gotta defensive it

and then after that its not too bad

I always have incarn for it

or LB Bark

and also microkite em

they naturally get slowed by 99 stuff anyways

[outer cave]

I cant the notes for this when did it happen?

[formal stream]

i'll probably split 15 in 2 pulls, i'm not that confident

[hazy mural]

a vile lasher died, one of ur dps must have done their job and kicked their ass

[hazy mural]

yh for sure! its a pull I do cause im used to it now but it dosent have to be done for sure

[slim tinsel]

do you by any chance have a killer route for a pug AA? 19/20

[formal stream]

is it possible to split like this ?

[hazy mural]

nope, mine is too safe tbh... u lose a bit of time but make it safer... and AA isnt somewhere u want slow timers =/

[slim tinsel]

yeah I need to gain time and I'm not sure where

[hazy mural]

it can do 20 for sure, but tbh better to find a faster AA and get used to it

[hazy mural]

from good dpsers

sounds stupid but having good dps in that dungeon is like a multiplier

[slim tinsel]

well yeah, but I would like to have a good route nonetheless

[hazy mural]

anytime theres a few walls in a dungeon in terms of dungeon progress, doing good dps makes it way faster than others

[slim tinsel]

mine is insanely basic, cuz I'm fairly scared of pulling like 3x or 4x smasher and stuff

[hazy mural]

well what I do is chain and prewarn ppl to focus casters

so when 1 caster dies in 1st pack, go to the 2nd pack and now u have 2 big guys and 2 casters, and when both casters are down u have 2 big guys and 1 big guy almost dead

[slim tinsel]

the first smasher + 2 casters are not skippable without invis right?

[red knoll]

At high keys you need to start pulling big

[hazy mural]

still slower but not too slow

[hazy mural]

think u can do other stuff with em to skip em

[red knoll]

You can have like 2 small pulls

But otherwise youre grouping/chaining everything

Including bosses

[slim tinsel]

I've been doing this but it feels insanely slow

[red knoll]

You want a skip for the 2 bugs

Smashers

[hazy mural]

yh... u want the side guys as well tbh

good count

[red knoll]

Pull the two to the side with 16

Then invis smashers

[slim tinsel]

well yeah but I feel like in pugs the group is in danger with 2 smashers in the pull, let alone 3 or 4

[hazy mural]

guessing ur pulling more worms after 2nd boss

[red knoll]

They can avoid the damahe

Entirely

[hazy mural]

smashes dont actually kill unless ppl suck at defensives or healer sucks

[red knoll]

Pull them near a staircase

[hazy mural]

its overlap of smash + a cast

[red knoll]

You los the slam

Smashes shouldn't damage people

Nevermind kill them

[slim tinsel]

yeah but the spinning clones often block the LoS spots

[red knoll]

Thats why you pull near stairs

[hazy mural]

I dont like los cause of the rng of where they get baited

better for ppl to know when to defensive and then u dont die

and with a monk healer, ppl just back to full health after every hit

[slim tinsel]

can ppl los by going down the stairs a bit?

[red knoll]

Yes

[slim tinsel]

even then I feel like with 3 smashers the clones are gonna be all over the stairs

I am looking at sha and he did do a 21 with those 2 last pulls I have

it's turbo safe but I guess doable with good dps

[hazy mural]

can I see ur route after 2nd boss?

I feel like its either slow there or deadly

[slim tinsel]

basically this, 8 slowly pull into the bridge pack, 9 chain into 10

[trim plaza]

brother

we are not pullinh 8 worms

its overkill for dps/healers

[rustic kestrel]

I bet Heals likes to pull 8 worms

[trim plaza]

LO

[rustic kestrel]

8 worms + double ravager

[hazy mural]

in beta, sure!

[slim tinsel]

where is double ravager my guy

[hazy mural]

hes meming me xD

but yh thats a scary pull even if its kinda chained

[slim tinsel]

you can fairly easily get 4 worms, get them low ish while ur doing ravager, and then pull the other 4 and into the bridge

[hazy mural]

what makes it scary is the worms charging random ppl, can just one shot em with that many worms around

[hazy mural]

but then thats too slow

and still nasty

[trim plaza]

u have to understand 2 leaps into dps is almost one shot to dps already

so u cant just perma chain worms, someone will 100% die

[rustic kestrel]

3 worms can rng one shit someone at around 20s

[slim tinsel]

well what do you recommend instead

[rustic kestrel]

You have to pull more at the end

on a lowr key level you can do 4 wyrms

but higher up its dangerous and you have to pull casters onto last boss instead

or do some weird monksea routing shit

[hazy mural]

remove the 6 worms and pull the ravager and 2 worms into bridge

pull the side pack of 1 big guy + caster near the end and u have perfect count

[slim tinsel]

this?

[hazy mural]

can do some long cc stuff to make things go faster where u cc casters to use em on bosses and just make it so u fight ravagers etc, but the simplest is just chain

[covert stone]

Did pull 8 in 21 and one dps insta die. Bad idea

[hazy mural]

personally id do 2nd half of 13 into 1 4

easier than 13

or at least cc one of the casters

[covert stone]

You have to pull caster at the end and cc them

You can sleep drakes by the way

If you don’t have a monk

[hazy mural]

but usually in this area, the fail state without hitting the circles is someone getting hit by a cast + aoe same time

if healer and dps use throughput and defensives well

[covert stone]

It’s the littles worms the problem

They do one shot at one point in high keys

[slim tinsel]

wdym

[covert stone]

Pull 2 casters on last boss. Sleep one, kill one on pull boss break sleep and kill the other one during boss

By doing this you can remove the 4 extra worms you are taking on pull 8

They will wipe your group

[slim tinsel]

what am I skipping for the 2 casters tho

[trim plaza]

if u want do like this, u kill 3 on stairs alone, then pull 3 echoknights+caster and lust it

[covert stone]

Remove those

[slim tinsel]

yes but if I remove those and I take this, I have 100%

so what else am I leaving out

[covert stone]

Send without any pull I show you

I am on my phone

[tepid wyvern]

does hotw not show up in logs?

[rustic kestrel]

wont show up in casts, but will show up in damage as starfall and feral frenzy

[covert stone]

Now you lust pull red

[tepid wyvern]

ah ok

[covert stone]

Pull green you pull them on boss

[slim tinsel]

yeah but that requires an invis skip and also a 4 smasher pull that's scary as hell in a pug

[trim plaza]

warlock gate exists

[covert stone]

No need invis

[rustic kestrel]

no invis skip required

you can jump up the hill on the left with wildcharge, and 3 seater mount people up

[covert stone]

One dh or an aug is enough.

[rustic kestrel]

Anyone with a leap can do it. So

Shaman, Warrior, Druid, DH, Aug, outlaw, lock gate

[covert stone]

If you do this before pull lust, root the casters pat to be sure they don’t bother you during the lust

[trim plaza]

lock gate too

[slim tinsel]

how do you spread pull the smashers to desync smashes as best as possible?

[rustic kestrel]

you dont

[covert stone]

You play them with walls

[hazy mural]

u want em to go off right after the other

[rustic kestrel]

they will all que up and cast them in a row

[muted pulsar]

You don't have to they are the same as priory paladins

[hazy mural]

so that u can cover more with ur defensive

[muted pulsar]

They will delay by a few seconds between each cast

[covert stone]

You can LOS too

[hazy mural]

paladins could cast together!

[slim tinsel]

oh they will 100%? they can't cast at the same time ever?

[muted pulsar]

No they couldn't

[covert stone]

No they are naturally desync

[hazy mural]

u had to pull em at certain times to not have it happen

[muted pulsar]

There was 4 second between each divine toll

[slim tinsel]

I remember having to desync paladins

[trim plaza]

they did almost overalp in priory

[hazy mural]

ooooh right

mb, was talking bout starting ones

forgot their name

the ones with the interrupting shout

[slim tinsel]

oh that's sick I didn't know they naturally desync

ok that's doable then

[hazy mural]

knights

my beloved

[trim plaza]

priory, f that place

hate it with a passion

[rustic kestrel]

usually when theres mobs of the same name, they will put their casts in a que so they dont overlap

usually

[covert stone]

Don’t forgot you can still use the boss entrance to los some aoe

[hazy mural]

my fav dungeon of all time

[trim plaza]

LOl

u are menace

[rustic kestrel]

I wasnt joking when i said he probs prefers to double ravager

he lovesto pull the most cursed shit

[hazy mural]

my tierlist for this season

[trim plaza]

not a single tww dungeon is even close to top 10 best m+ dungeons

[slim tinsel]

does anyone have a vid by chance where someone jumps up to skip the casters? I can't do it in a normal cuz the gate is closed without having to do the entire dung

[rustic kestrel]

its outside

flyu past the entrance, the entire dungeon is outside

[hazy mural]

Pit not as good as Priory ofc, but still sooo good

[trim plaza]

i find pit boring as f, my favourites are windrunner and magister this season 100%, maisara prob third

[hazy mural]

Priory was great cause u could route for success

[slim tinsel]

I hated priory with a passion and I hated floodgate even more

[hazy mural]

u should try my pit route

[red knoll]

I like wrs cuz sylvanas

[hazy mural]

wont be boring then

[trim plaza]

too many archers/casters for my liking

[covert stone]

Floodgate was really trash

Priory was fine

[hazy mural]

thats the trick, dont have em!

[slim tinsel]

floodgate almost made me quit the game ngl, was a prot pally then aswell

[trim plaza]

i would go floodgate anyday of the week isntead of priory

[hazy mural]

Bubbles

[red knoll]

Saying priory is fine is psychopath behavior

[trim plaza]

this

[hazy mural]

S3 when they removed Bubbles 🫡

[trim plaza]

absolute f tier dungeon

[red knoll]

If you've ever healed it

Or tanked it

[trim plaza]

only tww dungeon i actually liked was cinderbrew

[red knoll]

Its fucking dogshit

[hazy mural]

the last boss is gonna be my wife

[covert stone]

Cinderbrew was terrible too imo

[hazy mural]

Bee E O!

[slim tinsel]

here yess?

[trim plaza]

fun for tanks

[covert stone]

Naaa hated it

[red knoll]

I didnt play season 2 but bringing back the shittiest dungeons for season 3 was definitely a choice the community made

[covert stone]

TWW dungeons weren’t great overall

[red knoll]

Ara Kara Priory Floodgate and Dawn in the same season

Fuck yall for voting foe that

[covert stone]

Yea

Shadow lands dungeons were quite good

[red knoll]

4 of the worst fucking dungeons to ever fucking heal

[covert stone]

Yea fuck dawn

[rustic kestrel]

go where this guy is standing and jump + wild charge the line

[red knoll]

At least priory brought us

https://tenor.com/view/zimbita-world-of-warcraft-wow-priory-of-the-sacred-flame-gif-12847891122108903749

[covert stone]

You don’t need to wild charge you can just go invis as a Druid haha

[outer cave]

Priory, stone vault, and city of threads are all f tier dungeons imo

[rustic kestrel]

its so he can bring others up with 3 seater mount

[hazy mural]

I liked SV in s1 tho!

[covert stone]

Oh yea sure, but hopefully you have someone else to do that

[outer cave]

But why

[hazy mural]

scary but fun to tank

[trim plaza]

pre nerfed SV :)))))))))))

[hazy mural]

only bit I hated were the spam casters in last boss area

I swear machine guns wish they were as relentless as em

[outer cave]

The guys before last boss were annoying too

[rustic kestrel]

see, he likes dogshit dungeons

[trim plaza]

xddddddddd

[muted pulsar]

Stonevault was horrible at the start of the season, pretty good by the end except the shadowmeld "requirement" because the charging adds at the end were dogshit

[red knoll]

I think hfc likes dogshit everything tbh

[hazy mural]

I like dungeons that improve me tbh

[covert stone]

Overall TWW was really dogshit ngl

[hazy mural]

I just look at em and try to accept their challenge

[red knoll]

Priory doesnt improve you

[hazy mural]

priory usual routes were shit for normal players cause they cant do good kicks and ccs, so came up with ways to not have that problem, just have to defensive knights

[trim plaza]

just wait next season blinding vale+murder row

[hazy mural]

im quitting next season

[red knoll]

Also that one lynx pull that was just rng if someone died

[hazy mural]

aint doing murder row as it is

thats not a challenge

[red knoll]

Awesome dungeon design

[hazy mural]

the challenge is not smashing ur keyboard with 99 casters around

[outer cave]

Murder row needs to be deleted it sucks now it'll suck later too imo

And vale seems bad too

[hazy mural]

it is, yh

[trim plaza]

vale bosses

are

yikes

[hazy mural]

I feel like they purposely chose the passable dungeons for S1

so they can cook for S2 and remake the dungeons

[red knoll]

Surely they fix all the problems with these dungeons before launch right

Right

[trim plaza]

spires of ascension s2 and i quit

[outer cave]

I do think the one where you collect 6 barrels in the beginning and then go to frost boss seems fun

[hazy mural]

will be terrible for M+ tho

Den of Nalorak

[outer cave]

Why terrible?

[trim plaza]

second boss of den XD

[hazy mural]

and then the winter winds mechanic

[red knoll]

Im surprised hfc doesnt like den

He likes every other dogshit dungeon

[hazy mural]

go fish

pun intended

[rustic kestrel]

the winter area is dogshit

going to be so fucked for m+

[outer cave]

Oh true. Hey at least its not the restaurant simulator in murder

[hazy mural]

idm that

[trim plaza]

ye 2nd boss, impossible

[hazy mural]

it will give count I bet

also gives a buff

will just suck when someone who has no idea of the me chanic is in the group and u get screwed cause they refuse to use the broom and clean the place

and u keep tripping everywhere

[red knoll]

Murder row 2nd boss

Errr last boss

So aids

[dusk spire]

Hold up tho did anyone else shit their pants on the 2nd pull of murder row w the bleeds

They’re fat

[red knoll]

The shield guy is just gunna one shot tanks

In high keys

Cant wait

[outer cave]

"We want dungeons to have less casts" and then the in murder row every mob after boss 2 is a caster.. how are you supposed to do that in m+?

[forest flume]

its simple

[red knoll]

Its possible they change the path for m+

Possible, but not likely

They changed the mobs in skyreach around for m+

Slightly

[hazy mural]

not even kidding on quitting if S2 dungeons still look unfun

I have a backlog of games to play xD

[forest flume]

my backlog is actually insane lol

i could prob have enough to play for 2-3 years at this point

[dusk spire]

VDH meta

Is that phrase forbidden here?

[olive hare]

Its not ppal so its okay

[forest flume]

I much prefer a prot paladin meta

oh no

the problem with VDH meta is that you have demon hunter enjoyers also switching to it

[hazy mural]

the life

[hazy mural]

well they snipped vdh's control balls a bit so shouldnt be too bad

[brazen tinsel]

yea that 2s silence sigil is gonna show those casters

[olive hare]

Though aoe cc isnt really VDHs big strong suite anymore. Pretty much lines up with ppal, pwar and bdk

[outer cave]

Ppal with lots of throw shield may be good in murder row for all the interrupts

[red knoll]

They nerfed the shit out of vdh utility

[hazy mural]

even prot pala cant save u from all them casters

[red knoll]

Cuz they said we wouldnt need

It

Less casters member

[olive hare]

Was that before or after they chose to snip healers?

[forest flume]

prot paladin is a blast to play, Vanguard putting glowing lines everywhere, very shiny, love it

[outer cave]

While leveling in murder row I tried to aggro a bunch of casters and go behind a corner and it kind of worked but I pulled so many mobs that it would be impossible in a m+ so it would only solve some of the casters.

[forest flume]

mines almost geared out just need to farm a bit more crests 😎

[hazy mural]

started on the 2nd bear

+14 Seat got to me tho

[forest flume]

i have 15 more druids to get from 80 to 90

in due time

[dusk spire]

I did level my pal in prot for fast queues and while it was an improvement there it was still not clean grouping

That corridor will be ass

[outer cave]

There are suckyoubuss mobs that can charm you oy your healer too

[red knoll]

Theyre incubi

The male variants are incubi

[slim tinsel]

in SR after first boss do you go left or right? I feel like I wanna start doing left just to get 1 less adept

[red knoll]

You always go left

Sr is just a hold left dungeon

[rustic kestrel]

going right is easier on your group, less kicks

but extra adept obvi

[slim tinsel]

going right there I always have my cheeks clenched just nonstrop stressing about the stacks, and they go up so fast

[red knoll]

Doesnt going right fuck up the count

[slim tinsel]

no

[red knoll]

I thought u needed to pull right again if you pulled right there

[slim tinsel]

no

[olive hare]

Stop exposing your cheeks then. Bear aint a dodge tank, but dodging helps a ton against those shitters.

[rustic kestrel]

nope its still 100.23

[raven oasis]

Do other bears charge or skull bash through the floor on the two light elementals after the bridge in NPX?... Fun bug

[outer cave]

Thoughts in SR only fighting 1 big blue bird so you can pull it with the first pack in the boss area? To make up count there is a pack of 3 guys after last boss

[dusk spire]

Didnt that happen in an mdi run?

[red knoll]

Like this?

[red knoll]

Its not a bug its a feature

Dont charge on bridges we been knew this

Well veteran bears been knew

[rustic kestrel]

ive never had it happen but i always jump before i kick there

so either luck or maybe a possible solution?

[dusk spire]

Will try later in my io key and lyk

[hazy mural]

think was evoker doing something there with rescue iirc

[trim plaza]

no they pulled boss and bridge dissappeard under rogue/evoker

[tawny totem]

This is a dumb question but learning tank here. When gathering and start of damage is there a better way to gather more threat. currently thrash when walking by and moonfire spaming.

[vocal tundra]

you can spec boomkin hotw and use that to gather initial threat too

very useful for like aa first pull