guardian

[hazy mural]

the stat weight one I did yesterday was very sus tbh, not sure if u can trust it xD

Agi 23, Haste 19, Crit 11... and thats Dslice

[left lantern]

whatever sims more dps

[ebon vortex]

so is it still best to run with no hero talents?

[left lantern]

niche and not really necessary until r1 level keys and even then its probably not needed, just to feel safer on your first completion

[steel vault]

Most of the top runs on raider.io by bears are not using APEX talents. (everyone uses hero talents) Raids are using apex talents. IV and Wowhead both have noapex as recommended for M+. The pins here in this disc recommend a noapex build for M+.

[ebon vortex]

thanks

[dusk zinc]

Quick question for mythic dragons
Is the extra soakers for nullbeam just to take same of the damage or is soaking the full 12 stacks faster beter?

[steel vault]

The apex talent for EC, as you read it, buffs maul/raze a lot. With the nerf to maul/raze st a few weeks ago, and buff to thrash, there is much less benefit to apex in EC. This allows us to spend those apex points on other guardian talents that do fun things. 😉 The no apex mostly spams thrash, moonfire, and lunar beam, with IF, but you can macro IF to thrash. This gives the most AOE dps for M+, so very litle maul/raze pushing now in M+ (can on single garget boss). Raid DOTC build still does more ST and uses apex.

[still locust]

Versatility isn't really better for survival

Common misconception

[still locust]

You cannot solo soak 12 stacks

Each player in the beam can only soak 8 stacks max

[still locust]

https://www.dreamgrove.gg/blog/guardian/compendium#stat-priority

[still locust]

Stat weight is always sus

[trim plaza]

Both tanks just stands in beam and done

[still locust]

Or use a tanky dps/3rd tank (if you're already using a 3rd tank for easier orb control)

All 3 are options that work well

[trim plaza]

Y

[dusk zinc]

Ah ok doesnt say that anywhere but ty

Just says it stacks to 12 and my health isn't moving but it stops at 8 stacks so I was very confused

[smoky kestrel]

It’s a bit better for magic damage in general and some dungeon have huge magic damage

[still locust]

Nah, it's not

Mastery is best for overall survivability if you care about that (but you shouldn't)

A bit more vers than crit will never be the reason you live a key

[smoky kestrel]

Why versa is not better for magic damage than crit ?

[still locust]

It is, but you don't take damage like that in a vacuum

And like I said, if you really care about that, you should stack mastery before vers

[smoky kestrel]

So you say it is and it’s not in 2 answer

[still locust]

Nothing I said contradicts itself

1: Mastery is best for survivability (by a very tiny margin)
2: Having a bit more vers than crit isn't going to let you time keys that having more crit than vers wouldn't let you time

Secondary stats are INCREDIBLY irrelevant for actually timing keys

What matters is playing correctly

[still locust]

I can also screenshot messages

[dusk zinc]

Where does it say this. Mythic stacks to 12

[still locust]

It only ticks 8 times per player, and each tick removes a stack

I don't think it explicitly says this anywhere tbf

[dusk zinc]

So the journal is fucked got it

[still locust]

Quick note, the journal probably says the boss/mechanic has 12 stacks, not that it stacks to 12

But I haven't read the text itself in a while

[smoky kestrel]

Yes but my sentence was about « versa is better for magic damage then crit », not if secondary stat are relevent or not

[still locust]

If that's what you meant, that's okay. But that's not what you wrote. You wrote "Vers is better for magic damage in general"

But it's irrelevant anyway

My message is just: Secondary stats aren't worth thinking about, let raidbots think about it for you

[smoky kestrel]

You were comparing versa to crit in the answer I did to you but nvm

[dusk zinc]

All u need IS
THRASH

[still locust]

Yeah so it says "getting stacks from breath weakens nullbeam up to 12 times", but ticking every 0.5 seconds for 4 seconds means you could only get 8 stacks per player

It's not super explicit and you have to read it somewhat carefully

[dusk zinc]

My greatest weekness

[smoky kestrel]

The thing is, why every pro stack versa at a moment in highest key if it not matter ?

[still locust]

It could be any of the following
1: they like vers
2: they happened to get vers gear first and just stuck with it
3: they (erronously) think vers is a miracle-defensive tool

But it doesn't matter

I would never actually recommend it, but bear could actually gear decently well by just throwing darts at a board

But the main thing to consider is that since all secondary stats are basically even value, why not just gear for damage and gain 99.99% of the same defensive value?

[smoky kestrel]

Idk, pro are not that stupid for me. They need to have damage even as tank to kill pack the faster. Maybe we miss something

Or they are stupid

I need to do some theorycraft on this to have the answer I guess

[still locust]

They're just lads playing a game

I wouldn't assume they know everything, same way you shouldn't assume anyone in here know everything

[surreal wadi]

Hey guys, do you know where can I get Guardian Druid macros?

[smoky kestrel]

But I guess some team for MDI got paid theorycrafter, idk how they can miss that if it’s trivial for everyone else

[dusk zinc]

Thanks for the clarification

[sharp gale]

idk sometimes they're just lazy man
squishvegan with ironfur macro in the past being the prime example etc

[quaint pond]

vers'll be better than mastery for damage before vers become better for defense

the tiny bit of advantage mastery can have over vers for defense sometimes isn't worth the better damage you can get from vers

[smoky kestrel]

Yeah that’s what I thought

[quaint pond]

it just depends on your gear

EC gets a ton of mastery from LB which will devalue mastery rating during CDs which is when you typically want more damage since bigger pull

otoh defensively you may be less concerned during CD but want to be tankier when LB is down so mastery isn't as devalued

even then if you are only concenred about being one-shot with LB up, i don't think you can get enough mastery on gear for vers to be better this tier

but may be possible later in xpac

but diff is so minor and defensively we're only talking about passive defense, so if you want something measurable to gear you just sim for dps

[smoky kestrel]

Why mastery is devalued during LB ? Did mastery stack multiplicaly ?

[quaint pond]

that's just how additive stats work

0->1 is relatively better than 50->51

[smoky kestrel]

You talk about diminishing return right ?

[still locust]

No that's different

Using made up numbers here

Going from 0% increased attack power from mastery to 30% increased attack power from mastery is 30%. Going from 30% to 60% is only a 23% increase over having 30%

Diminishing returns as a mechanic means that after a certain breakpoint you get less stat per rating

[smoky kestrel]

Yes I understand this part

[still locust]

It is technically a diminishing return I suppose, but when the game has a mechanic called "diminishing returns" it's important to distinguish them

[smoky kestrel]

But so, if i get like 5% mastery and I LB, I don’t have DR right ?

[pliant shoal]

looking at Andy’s logs, his Ursoc healing is way higher than my own personally. Is there any reason for this aside from I’m not pressing thrash enough ?

[frail bison]

what are the best defensive trinkets for using in mythic keys ? I dont have to do highest amount of dps i just wanna be tanky as fck

[smoky kestrel]

Bigger pack

[left lantern]

bigger pulls

[still locust]

Especially bigger pulls during incarn

[still locust]

I don't think LB is subject to actual stat rating DR, no

It's usually only for stuff that gives flat ratings, like trinkets

[smoky kestrel]

Trinket can make DR so ?

[quaint pond]

wow DR only applies to ratings, not stats

it doesn't care how much % you have

[still locust]

Was unsure how it handled mastery since mastery points are weird

[quaint pond]

sites and guides calling it 'stat DR' are jsut spreading confusion

[pliant shoal]

beautiful thanks

[smoky kestrel]

What that really mean please ?

[quaint pond]

if you get ratings, like from gear or some procs, it the wow tax DR applies

it doesn't apply to the % stats yo usee on your chardater sheet

[left lantern]

when a trinket says "increases crit by 100" that counts towards DR
when a trinket says "increases crit by 10%" it doesnt count towards DR

[vast dune]

Figured I'd get around to gearing my Guardian this week, and I was trying to gauge which dungeons to spend my 14 Bonus rolls on.

Was looking at NPX + Windrunner as they have 14 pieces total, with the only overlap being the chest slot, which I think leaves me only needing to craft Wrists+Head. Picks up NPX dual rings and Emberwing + Heart of Wind in Windrunner. Does anyone know if there's a better spread in dungeons, or am I right to just send it in those two?

[left lantern]

send em

[smoky kestrel]

Oh ok thank ! Not easy to understand that alone ahah

[vast dune]

👌

[quaint pond]

yes it's a stupid convoluted system

[still locust]

Is it a completely fresh toon? WRS is the best bang for your buck then

[quaint pond]

with lots of stupid confusing article about it

[still locust]

Then after emptying WRS you can sim a droptimizer on raidbots and pick the next best option

[frail bison]

what are the best defensive trinkets for higher keys as guardian druid?

[vast dune]

Basically, they've been out doing Delves and other malarkey for a couple weeks, so they're sat at 262 with mostly just champ gear.

[still locust]

Yeah I would just empty WRS then

[vast dune]

Cheers big ears, I'll do that then

[still locust]

Only option (kind of) is Dragons trinket, but stat proc trinkets aren't bad

[left lantern]

gaze, dreadscale, any stat stick really

there is no such thing as a very outstanding "defensive" trinket

[frail bison]

aaah okeoke thanks, darnit so ill have to go and farm gaze then xD

[still locust]

Especially this season defensive trinkets have been turbo garbage

[left lantern]

we dont live in the age of 1-min cd 150% hp absorb trinkets anymore

[amber ocean]

Is Egg from Bel'oren bad then?

[violet holly]

bring dps trinkets back

[quaint pond]

think dreadscale might be the only one worth sacrificing dps / stat trinkets for, and only if you specifically find yourself needing it to survive some particular spot

[still locust]

if fully consumed, beloren trinket at 289 is on average 2.4k hps

Probably maybe increased by mastery/vers, but you would need a LOT to make that number better

[brazen tinsel]

extremely

[amber ocean]

jesus christ that's awful

I don't have it but I had heard it was decent. Suppose not then, lol. I'm using Gaze + Dreadscale in M+ usually

[trim plaza]

Even dreadscale is kinda w/e, only time i use it is walking into pack, nice little shield and snap threat thats it

[left lantern]

probably more value in the snap threat than the actual defensive value

[trim plaza]

Exactly xd

[amber ocean]

Yeah I like the threat value 😄

[trim plaza]

The defensive value is kinda meh

[south badger]

do you ever click ironfur or can u just macro it into moonfire and trahs

[quaint pond]

You should manually cast if you want to learn the spec and stick with it, but its overturned enough that you can macro if you don't care and just want ez time

[still locust]

#1463934154935894128 message

[left lantern]

bind to mousewheel, win game

[south badger]

I mean it makes sense to pool, but just see that some very high guaurdians just have it macroed

[still locust]

https://www.twitch.tv/squishvegan/clip/ImpartialAlluringTrayUnSane-810YxRNzAIpggHcQ

[vapid dock]

Is there a way to track my waking nightmare procs?

[still locust]

Only your eyeballs

[vapid dock]

God I love what theyve done tot his game

[still locust]

But you can't really play around it anyway

There's nothing you would change rotationally if you saw you had one

If you're in a build that has waking nightmares, you already should press thrash on CD as your highest priority

[vapid dock]

im just desperately trying to find some form of skill expression in the thrash build

[still locust]

You're looking in the wrong build

[rustic kestrel]

uh acktually this is just one clip, theres no way that theres hundreds more, its very disengenuous to repost this clip 🤓

[still locust]

The thrash + mf build is designed to have no depth

[quaint pond]

You're looking at the wrong game :p

Play wow to chill

[still locust]

That too, but this build specifically has no depth even compared to other builds

[left lantern]

• https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YV4vcJHZGzRqTj3M?fight=6&type=damage-done&pull=1&source=3&start=7131201&end=7171008
• https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8XHmnT3y1tRY7DGx?fight=2&type=damage-done&pull=1&source=1&start=768322&end=808163

is there any reason why my thrash deals 200k less damage per cast in this pull? any helpers

[vapid dock]

Its just sad. I actually really, really enjoyed guardian at the start of Midnight. I'm glad they fixed our aggro issues, but I'm madge that they basically implemented TOI 2.0

[still locust]

We have 5 other equally viable builds with lots more stuff to consider rotationally

[still locust]

The other person just hits more targets with their thrash

[left lantern]

yes but how

its skyreach first pull

there isnt anything else to pull

[still locust]

You just missed

[left lantern]

same in 2nd pull, is it legit just a range issue then?

[still locust]

On dreadraven 1 you both hit the same amount of times (basically)

On all 3 dreadravens they hit 12 more times

[left lantern]

[still locust]

This is just a cursory glance

[left lantern]

gotta pay attention to positioning then

[shut jasper]

looking at replay you kite in a circle at some point while the other log is only slowly backpeddling

[left lantern]

[trim plaza]

I kinda like ToI in one way, what i dont like is some legit ignoring mangle like wtf is that

[still locust]

I don't mind the concept of toi, but their last execution failed horribly and would need a rework

[shut jasper]

low key the biggest issue of toi was how unimpactful it felt

[vapid dock]

Its wild because, I feel, that they nailed prot warrior.

[shut jasper]

for a good portion of tww it did more st than sotr which is basically the same button

but it had 0 visual or audio feedback which is yuck

[still locust]

Don't know if this is a good comparison

If ppala had a maul-equivalent, maybe

The main problem of toi is that it was either so shit you didn't care about it, or it was rotation warping and you dropped maul for it

[shut jasper]

ppal, especially s2 was bear if you deleted maul

[still locust]

No real inbetween

Yeah but that's the problem

it deleted maul

(for some)

[trim plaza]

I pushed 1 week with EC no apex and i just couldnt anymore take it and just swapped to DotC, i have had alot of fun in 20's

[shut jasper]

because most sotr casts were wasted duration, just a little bit of damage

and cdr

[vapid dock]

I love DOTC, maybe its time I look up that build and play it instead.

[trim plaza]

Wasnt ToI like giga op in single target when they first produced it but later nerfed it and capped?

[forest flume]

I may have a more recent vid for that, might try to go back on twitch and clip it for you

[shut jasper]

the diminishing returns of toi in tww were fairly small, wasn't op but still significant

[still locust]

Yes

[trim plaza]

Ye its nice! I recommend to check bulok and brybear also has alot of logs of it from 21's if u are interested to check

S2 of DF was prob most goated bear gameplay, liked tww s3 too when i got more into pushing

S3 tww DotC with hero talent tier set, holy f that thing slapped

[vapid dock]

Last time I really mained guardian was DF S3. It was my first real push. Interesting feeling to run out of logs to emulate and then have to figure out your own solutions. I just don't have the time to play that much anymore, unfortunately.

[still locust]

Oh no, DF S3

[vapid dock]

After I broke into the top 10 and got walled, Everbloom made me rage quit and swap VDH. Sigil of Silence gathers were just too goated.

[still locust]

The tier set was a warcrime

[vapid dock]

True

[trim plaza]

Cant even remember bear tier that season

I almosr fully played bdk s3 of DF xd

[trim plaza]

That dungeon was fun but really hard to execute in higher levels

[vapid dock]

How was BDK that season? I remember crashing out over parry chance on Shellbreaker in Throne of Tides. Can't imagine it as a BDK

[trim plaza]

It was fun abd also had fyralath xd

[vapid dock]

I tried so many warlock skips, just for us to get continuously heal checked on last boss. I was playing around After The Wildfire just for DPS to live. Was fun, but frustrating.

[trim plaza]

Loved to solo tank fyrakk as blood too

[vapid dock]

Was that one of the seasons where BDK did busted damage? I don't think it was, but I can't remember

[trim plaza]

Ye it was hard

[dull lily]

Hi! Can I drop my warcraft logs? Anyone willing to review it and lmk feedback as much as you can?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/malganis/regrat?zone=47

Tag me when you have something to say

[trim plaza]

SL s3/4 are bdk most broken era, unkillable and broken dmg but blood did good dps ye, just same shit when u got higher u were just dead no counterplay

[vapid dock]

I also vaguely recall Gorefiends being difficult to pick up. But could be wrong.

[trim plaza]

Not anymore

[vapid dock]

In DF

I might be conflating it with Sigil of Chains

[trim plaza]

Ye true, but bsck then we had abomlimb with dmg, now abom is absolute asss and gorefiend is good

[vapid dock]

Abom Limb... back when this game had buttons 🙁

[trim plaza]

They baked gorefiend, gorefiend cdr and silence into 1 talent so its good now

[vapid dock]

Oh thats sick

[trim plaza]

Actually

Gorefiend is stronger than sigil of chains+silence XD

Now

And u dont even talent chains anymore im pretty sure

[stiff phoenix]

Is anyone watching this 30 bear raid

[still locust]

I think this was the initial, and IIRC it was changed a bit

But this was the gist of it

[forest flume]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q2wHqJBgcfyrPa9j?fight=2&type=casts&source=400

Key lasted 27 minutes, you pressed incarn 4 times, that's a 2-ish minutes cd, use it more often

Swipe, 221 casts? That's a big no-no. Generates no rage and does almost no damage. Better off doing thrash/moonfire to fill gcds.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q2wHqJBgcfyrPa9j?fight=2&type=damage-taken&source=400&ability=1&sourcebuffs=-192081

Those are the melee hits you took without ironfur. It can happen (specially on first pulls with no rage, but you took a lot of those at places where you should be drowning in rage)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q2wHqJBgcfyrPa9j?fight=2&type=resources&spell=101

A lot of wasted rage there, now with no-apex there isn't a way to convert that into damage really, but given that you took a lot of hits without ironfur up, might be wise to keep an eye on that

[jovial mauve]

Any advise to increase my dmg?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kMBaR1JLygvwnbH8?fight=18&type=damage-done

Sometimes is impossible for me to find the right moment to land lunar beam

Many times i have to move the pack or the boss after it and even if i hold it sometimes i have to move boss again

[shut jasper]

the right moment to land lunar beam is the moment it becomes available

[halcyon jackal]

😮

[shut jasper]

you care about the buff above all else

[halcyon jackal]

there are some cases you want to save beam for tank bursters because you can't have bark for every single one. But that happens a handful of times in a dungeon

[still locust]

If you're playing the mf spam build, the damage itself is also very important

[shut jasper]

yes there's those small exceptions

[shut jasper]

it's barely more than an average thrash cast

it's good but it's not massive

[olive compass]

is there like a "standard" plater profile for tanking

ive been using platynator for a while but been meaning to change

[halcyon jackal]

default plater is good enough, you can change the cast bar colors for easier recognition. You may also want exboss/exwind, it's a new weakaura

[olive compass]

i tried it and i absolutely hate exboss ngl

[halcyon jackal]

well then littlewigs is another option, it's less powerful, but passable

[jovial mauve]

my LF dmg in that maisara +20 was 11% of my overall

[olive compass]

yea obv have that

[forest flume]

calling it a "new weakaura" when weakauras main usage was to track buffs/cooldowns, and that addon is a boss encounter addon

:x

[jovial mauve]

and the buff 50% uptime

also thrash 14cpm

is that good?

or not enough to parse near 90-100

im also w8ing for tonight to spend my 4th roll on chimaerus and get the gaze 298

[halcyon jackal]

I also prefer LW set up over Exboss, but LW doesn't track trash cds like exboss

[jovial mauve]

some ppl did like 140k on maisara +20 and my route was optimized, we still had 3 mins when finish the key

[trim plaza]

Ahh hell na its that one XD

[wild bloom]

any reason i should gem vers haste when crit haste sim better?

[covert stone]

They go vers for high keys

Def value

[still locust]

https://www.dreamgrove.gg/blog/guardian/compendium#stat-priority

TL;DR: Defensively, your choice of secondary stats don't matter

Just follow raidbots

As a bear in keys you will never die because you had the "wrong" secondary stats

[rustic kestrel]

I legit liked this tier set a lot

though it was kind of dog for raid, was awesome for keys

[wild bloom]

im doing 18s right now so its not quite 'high keys' i might go up to 20s at some point but ill be damned if i go higher

so im not sure how vers gem are worth it

[still locust]

Yeah in keys you had no fear of not consuming the buff

In raid you had to actively take more damage to consume it all

[still locust]

See my reply above Bulok

[wild bloom]

im answering to that answer

[still locust]

No, MY answer above bulok

[wild bloom]

oh

kekw

sry

[still locust]

No worries

[covert stone]

it doesnt really matter tbh, it is so small values at this point

[wild bloom]

yeah what u said what was i had in mind but i would think it applies until the highest keys

[covert stone]

you are talk about +7 secondary

do whatever you prefer

[still locust]

EVen in the top keys you're never dying because of your choice of secondary

You can do what you prefer yeah

Some people like haste

Some like vers

[wild bloom]

i like what the sim says

xD

[still locust]

Some just use raidbots because why would you think about it

[rustic kestrel]

@still locust what stat would have saved me here

[still locust]

Stamina

[rustic kestrel]

Maybe more int, so I'd be smart enough to just stay away from the fucking pack

[still locust]

More crit is more dodge is 0 damage from auto attacks

[rustic kestrel]

not me with like 800 crit

my bear was too fat

couldnt get out of the way

[brazen tinsel]

Battle axes

[shut jasper]

just be luckier?

[trim plaza]

Ahh classic battle axes shootin bear asss to moon out of nowhere

[rustic kestrel]

As you can see I have no lunar beam, bark, si, or incarn up and still decided to be in melee

not a wise choice

[hazy mural]

who cced em?

[slim tinsel]

how do you sim for m+? I know it's not very possible, but the closes viable thing?

[rustic kestrel]

a filthy dh

[jovial mauve]

sim for single target, sim for 5-10 targets and compare both scenarios

[hazy mural]

[hazy mural]

I believe Dungeon Slice works for Bears

[slim tinsel]

does it? it's a cuss word in most class discords

[jovial mauve]

u can sim like 1 min 10 targets for the 1st pack, a 3-4 min single target and 2 min 5-8 targets for a normal pack without bl

[hazy mural]

as far as I know the ppl who deal with the apl say it's ok to use

[forest flume]

I too made a wise choice, getting charged by 5 champions in seat

in 21, stack of 5 means "release spirit" shows up

[rustic kestrel]

just frenzy bro

[shut jasper]

I was gonna say the syncing fucked you but like, even if they weren't synced that'd all still happen in under a full second

[olive compass]

does ayjiecdm have a plugin for bear

bcdm is just so ugly though its all well and functional

[rustic kestrel]

I mean, it was my fault either way, no reason to be in melee with nothing up

I should have used the stun to make more distance instead of jerking around

[normal flower]

Is it full magical or a mix of magic + physical?

[hazy mural]

idk, I kinda blame the healer there for not using an external on u even tho they didnt know ur cds

[half surge]

sheeesh, got rings from npx bonus rolls

[forest flume]

knowing your teammates cd is an unfair competitive advantage in team-based content

according to blizzard of course

[rustic kestrel]

Does SLT even tick fast enough to safe from a .5s global

l0l

[hazy mural]

thats why I try my best to not have friends... they would cheat and tell me they are out of cds

[ivory salmon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wm2kdrQTF3DKWBa4?fight=1&type=casts&source=2

is anyone able to give this a cursory glance and maybe figure out why I am only averaging 12.7 thrashes per minute while someone like andy is is at 15.7 .. I have spent hours trying to figure it out and cannot find the difference.

[edgy merlin]

He has around 10% overall cpm on all casts compared to you (so just more effective on pressing buttons without any downtime). Biggest difference probably comes from minimizing empty travel time between packs

If you compare the casts for the first 6 mins for example you can quite clearly see a difference

you:

andy:

just shorter time between engaging the next pull and starting casts

Could be also that you lose some casts to doing other things like aoe stops or FR when you could thrash. Optimally you would time those casts during non-thrash globals (not always possible but something to aim for)

[meager snow]

hey guys,

1. what's the performance difference between heroic puzzlebox and mythic puzzle box. i have heroic equipped but have the mythic from vault.
2. I am currently using the 295 aln'hara pikestaff but also got mythic traitor's talon polearm( crit haste with more haste ). is it worth using a voidcore on the new polearm or continue using the crafted staff

[ivory salmon]

sim it

[rustic kestrel]

ilevel first

if you have a mythic weapon use that over crafted

[crystal silo]

Any big booty bear parsers that can help me? Feels like wowhead does not go into much detail at all on priority for ec bear raid build. I’m progging mythic Lura and I’ve never played this build and I’m unsure if mangle at 2 charges has higher prio than thrash.

[wild bloom]

how are people doing 24s

[rustic kestrel]

not in NA 😎

[edgy merlin]

NA is stuck at 12 because they use the AM/PM clock format and hours only go up to 12

EU can do up to 24

[trim plaza]

LOL

True

[forest flume]

Hey, I'll have you know that in some parts of northern NA we use 24hour format

Sadly, I live in that part and can't time 24s either so the theory might have some flaws

[ivory salmon]

i was thinking about this. unlike in a raid, does WCL count the entire time you are in the instance as uptime and not just actual time engaged in combat?

is that why there is always a 5%ish difference between in game meters and WCL?

[edgy merlin]

At least for damage wcl just divides the total damage with full dungeon time, both combat and out-of combat

probably the same for uptime calculations as well

[thin pecan]

Has there ever been any discovery with a bug with Starsurge damage? I am comparing my AA 19 vs other high performing logs and seeing they get about 2.8k damage reported for Starsurge but I do not have anything for Starsurge. I am taking the same talents including "Star Cascade". Any idea what's going on here?

link to my exact run if anyone is interested in diving deeper: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8cFWJMRDBKhy4TmN?fight=9&type=damage-done&source=7

[edgy merlin]

it's just under thrash

don't know why it's split in the other log

[thin pecan]

oooo you're right - so weird

[lucid arrow]

guys

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eXMRP4pSxTJbWg9CuupSv7

is this a ring angle? for vault

not sure i wanna replace dreadscale with heart of wind

[rustic kestrel]

for you id go heart

gotta get rid of that extra button press 😎

[lucid arrow]

what do you mean?

dreadscale is bound to thrash

along with ironfur

[rustic kestrel]

lmfao

then you should 100% get rid of it

you arent even using it to its near potential

[lucid arrow]

bro believed me for some reason

[forest flume]

who are you talking to

wait nvm lmao

[lucid arrow]

[calm vapor]

Can we still do double wigu on beloren myth?

[forest flume]

you lose buffs/procs when raid encounter starts

[outer cave]

Did blizz ever say why they want bears to be better than all other tanks but not "abnormally so"?

[forest flume]

thats how people did it iirc and that means you can't

[lucid arrow]

ig each class has an identity and they want bears to be dealing dmg

[rustic kestrel]

You can still put 4 apex into egg

You just incarn on pull and hold wigu

[forest flume]

I thought timings meant you had to do it way earlier, mb then

[lucid arrow]

ig they just didnt address why bear also does almost everything else better too

[rustic kestrel]

If your group is aiming to phase at 2min

now if you're early phasing no

we stopped damage in our kill

[forest flume]

for a bit I thought you were talking to yourself with the extra button press, then I remembered I put some people on ignore/block

[lucid arrow]

bro ignored me

[outer cave]

So best damage, give mark of wild, brez, and top tier tankiness?

Sounds like bear identity is that its the best and others identity is that they arent the best

[lucid arrow]

that is correct

[rustic kestrel]

They clearly didnt know what they were doing with the thrash change

[forest flume]

They stated at the beginning of TWW what niche they wanted for each tank

now im not sure if that still holds true

[rustic kestrel]

Turning a spec into 2 buttons and no apex was not on purpose

[lucid arrow]

Guardian Druid
With high armor and Ironfur uptime, druids should be one of the best tanks at surviving physical damage. We’re slightly increasing the damage they take from all types of damage and balancing the power of their self-healing. We’re also reducing the durations of some of their cooldowns to make timing their use more important.

[forest flume]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/upcoming-tank-tuning-in-the-war-within-nerfs-to-self-sustain-and-survivability-345239

dont think they talked about damage done but thats as much as they said about what they think of each spec

and 90% chance they also just threw all of that away after season1 anyway lmao

[lucid arrow]

Tank gameplay should not significantly change or require actions like kiting to survive.

we saw how that worked out

[trim plaza]

The day they fcked up bdk death strike.... still mad to this day

[forest flume]

havent played BDK in a hot minute, I alt-f4'd during mythic kiljaeden prog because guild was full of actual morons (but in the bad way, toxic as f), tried it a bit again during shadowlands s4 for the lols, but i have no idea what change they did or not really lol

[trim plaza]

They gave it aura

U cant back to back DS anymore

[outer cave]

I dont have a problem if they dont want tanks kiting but if all of them can "survive" then the one with the best buff and brez shouldn't also do the most damage themselves in my opinion..?

Because that just leads to one tank being the best at everything and others not?
Especially if the best build is really easy to do

[lucid arrow]

blizz doesnt think that far

[forest flume]

If all tanks can survive the same keys, then the best one is and always will be Paladin

[outer cave]

That is interesting. They didnt want to make bears 2 buttons but still they decided to give 300% buff. Wonder what they were thinking was going to happen

[trim plaza]

This

[rustic kestrel]

clearly werent thinking

the buff got gutted a week later significantly, thats what happens when you put somethign in without thinking

[forest flume]

im having so much fun on my ppal compared to this garbage 2 button im playing on my main (druid) atm

[trim plaza]

Saamr but with bdk

[forest flume]

confident I can at least attempt 20s on it this week, maybe deplete, but attempt

[rustic kestrel]

They just dont have the resources, or the priority to sink significant time into it mid patch

so they threw a dart at the wall

[trim plaza]

Just watch they will throw that dart again about apex changes

[rustic kestrel]

Assumedly it will be during 12.1 and will have a little more thought put into it

But who truly knows

[outer cave]

Not gonna lie I am getting bored doing the 2 button druid build. I like brew and pwar playstyle but never really liked ppal (mostly due to needing to watch party nameplates and mouseover /cast whatever on them). As tank i have enough things to worry about let alone casting things on teammates but thats just personal pref

[warm tundra]

Full group of bears killed alleria. When nerf

[forest flume]

really? Nice

nerf us please blizzard, ty

[trim plaza]

If they force bear back raze centric (what i expect) no apex enjoyers will crash out

[rustic kestrel]

If they crash out they can go find another two button spec

who cares

[trim plaza]

Ret paladin it is

[forest flume]

but i spent all these past 2 weeks switching mains, now I have to switch, again??

[trim plaza]

Nvm even that spec uses 3 button now that i think of it

[olive hare]

Fracture bot is always waiting around the corner

[rustic kestrel]

^

they can play dh and macro their spikes with I believe zero downside

but I dont know enough about dh to confirm that

[olive hare]

140% uptime still, without the extra ds charge in class tree, just from ftd

[forest flume]

the big downside though, suppose vdh becomes meta again

is that we'd have vdh tanks everywhere

[outer cave]

Spikes used to overwrite existing demon spikes buff did that go away?

[forest flume]

I guess it's the lesser evil

vdh tank meta versus meta build being thrash spam

[ivory salmon]

no, vdh tank meta is way worse.

[olive hare]

Still overwrites, but you have a ton of cdr so the overwrite doesnt matter.

[ivory salmon]

too many people just getting ate up on the first pull

[rustic kestrel]

Unfortunately, I think we're going to go back to a Bear depression after this patch

a solid 580 days of bear.oxez.net saying "no changes"

[forest flume]

Nah

that place is done

its over

[rustic kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/mad-pissed-off-anger-angry-fist-gif-17698178

[forest flume]

it was too complicated to maintain

[outer cave]

They removed demonic talent it will feel so weird to demon vomit and not go into demon

[rustic kestrel]

I dont even play dh, and that was the dumbest change ive ever seen

[olive hare]

DH and DK both share the same fate in Mid. They got pruned to justify a set of apex talents which does the same thing, but worse however you look at it

[forest flume]

so basically

"That looks good on paper, should we test it in-game, John?" - "Nah, ship it"

[solar spruce]

DH was like what if we gave you the same amount of average meta uptime, but half of it is completely rng based

[outer cave]

Rng defensives 🤮

[olive hare]

Exactly. And on top of that, the spb resets on meta procs make a huge chunk of your throughput, so its not only inconsistent, but also a pain in the butt for parsing.

[outer cave]

Brew and pwar dont have their major defensives rng proc at worst keg reset on brew is rng when using purifying

[olive hare]

In comparison Bear Apex was a godsent. Just turned out too good for certain raid encounters. Its tragic.

[outer cave]

Is it possible yo make bear apex that is useful for both moon and dotc bear

[rustic kestrel]

considering they already did

yes

People act like somehow with our apex dotc was fucking destroying ec

they were fucking close as shit lmao

And EC with apex has the ability to amp during Lunar beam, and not hold for ravage procs

even more flexible

[forest flume]

playing apex with ec in keys was the "brain off" build I played when tired

[olive hare]

Yeah EC and Dotc Apex seem very very close from a M+ pov at least. Dotc feels better, but thats just me prefering the ravage game over LB minmaxing.

[hazy mural]

if only there wasnt a big minigame of threat

[olive hare]

?

[forest flume]

I had issues early on but then I figured out that I just had to press buttons better

[hazy mural]

threat issues is what caused the current meta

[outer cave]

Just looked at archon for "high keys" and then sorted by damage. A few dotc guys making it the 2nd best dps tank.. behind ec bear

[olive hare]

Ah. Thought you meant that apex build still have threat issues going on, which I'd disagree with. Its probably the only thing Blizz succeeded in

[forest flume]

lmao those parses are all Bulok are they

[rustic kestrel]

probably brybear

[forest flume]

ohhh right they do play dotc as well

[hazy mural]

do 24s already

[forest flume]

I'm going to try this week, I just didn't want my group to question my choices since I can finally play the game as of last week

3rd 20 done yesterday, we are going up (maybe)

[hazy mural]

ive fallen so out of love with the game rn

[shut jasper]

aldrachi looking sad over there

[forest flume]

fotm reroll fatigue I see

[shut jasper]

the other underplayed hero talents at least have logs with competitive damage

[hazy mural]

nah I just played way too much in the first half

[shut jasper]

aldrachi meanwhile

[hazy mural]

almost 400 keys I feel in 1st 2-3 months

[harsh zenith]

quick question which one is better to take as m+ tank only - the finger is with avoidance

[olive hare]

8 Aldrachi parses. Sure these guys were giga minmaxers. I dont think its that bad anymore after the most recent buffs.

[forest flume]

I was kidding but ye I get it, I feel like first weeks were hella fun but now there's almost no more gains in terms of gear and you get to the point where people don't want to ever finish keys because "waste of time", rip

[hazy mural]

yh... and I hate pugs, they make me wanna quit at this stage, so I try tro only play with premade or else I just chill in other games or read

[forest flume]

I got my druid at 290-ish, warlock at 289, protpaladin rising at 283, I have 5 others are like 270 but that is starting to feel like a lot

[fair sundial]

Can I post a log for review, I feel like I am just really bad at this spec, but I am enjoying it?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mkXtxbrMfJRwg4FV?fight=1&type=damage-done

A couple thing is I'm not hitting the one minute CD (forget the name) nearly enough, im trying lunar >trash>moon> firex3. Is that the just of outside CD. My incarns feel bad so I'm fucking up something.

I would just like to up my level of play so all is welcomed

[forest flume]

Yeah you can post logs here

[pseudo latch]

What is a decent st dmg at +17 with ec?

[ivory salmon]

im probably about to gear my prot pally. i already have a prot warrior above 280. but whenever prot pallies are not in the top 2 they usually swing back hard the next season

[fair sundial]

Posted

[rustic kestrel]

11 Casts of Incarn in a 30 minute dungeon is very low. You're holding this too much. Your thrash cpm is almost 50% of what it should be, part of this is because you're missing casts, part because of missing incarns. You're also wasting a good chunk of rage, make sure you're spending

[fair sundial]

Am just spending on IF or something else?

[ivory salmon]

spending rage also in turn increases incarn uptime which increases thrashes which increases rage so on and so forh

IF

[rustic kestrel]

You're also just not casting thrash every other global in incarn, you keep moonfiring over and over during incarn

[ivory salmon]

and sometimes FR

[rustic kestrel]

For example, I just found one of your incarns where you casted four thrashes during it

[ivory salmon]

his haste may not be high enough tbh. it might be 2 globals

[rustic kestrel]

thats not how haste works

You need to smack thrash on cd, always

thats your biggest immediate issue

[ivory salmon]

higher haste = lower thrash CD = less moonfire casts between each thrash

[rustic kestrel]

nope

again not how haste works
you could have zero haste, and you would still thrash moonfire thrash moonfire

[fair sundial]

Fuck me lol alright I'm making a list of things to work on. So I should be thrash>MF alternating? Or am I just prio'ing thrash

[rustic kestrel]

Well you're prioing thrash, but theres always a global in between

[forest flume]

In addition to what Bulok said: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mkXtxbrMfJRwg4FV?fight=1&type=damage-taken&ability=1&source=4&sourcebuffs=-192081

You're taking a lot of melee hits without ironfur up, with the no-apex build this shouldn't happen that much given almost all of your rage should go into Ironfur. He mentioned the rage wasted -> dump that into IF

[trim plaza]

I assume no apex and what is ur ilvl? Im 288 and sustaining 45-50k

[ivory salmon]

my bad. i thought the floor of thrash was just low enough that without enough haste the reduction would not be enough.

[fair sundial]

Just hit 285 and have enough to finish filling with crafting

But thank you guys this has been very helpful

[forest flume]

damn 26 rage wasted in this 20skyreach, how do I sleep at night now, that's not something you forget

[ivory salmon]

ez general prio is just

thrash > lunar beam > moonfire

[rustic kestrel]

trash

[forest flume]

in my defense, what do I do with 26 rage

[ivory salmon]

FR i guess?

[rustic kestrel]

I wasted 63 in a 21 AA :/ i might as well macro

[forest flume]

yeah, macro

i also capped in the first pull in SR which is the only big pull of the dungeon lol

i guess 2nd boss room too

[covert stone]

Anyone as a macro to avoid to demorph when pressing regrowth? sometimes i spam and just switch to human form ..

[trim plaza]

Does people pull whole 2nd boss room in skyreach lets say +20?

[normal flower]

Not really unfortunately. There is a command, but then you can't demorph at all iirc. Best is to have a good weak aura to track it.

[covert stone]

Yes i do

[rustic kestrel]

bro what the Omnium foliostays the whol expac? so everyone just has random fuckass procs showing up in logs lmao

[forest flume]

did they say that?

please no

[rustic kestrel]

yeah new post

[forest flume]

what a little joker you are Bulok

oh fuck

[rustic kestrel]

cant wait for them to all have obnoxious fucking animations and pull random shit and break stuff

[forest flume]

you know what

[half surge]

guys i have an issue running MT today.. i used exact same route i used before but i have had missed 0.6% count? how come?

ill post route in a little

[forest flume]

Give us the folio thing but kill the no-apex build, that sounds like a deal

[rustic kestrel]

the only answer is you simply missed something

but we cant exactly tell you what it was

[forest flume]

maybe the books at the beginning?

[half surge]

books are 0 count

ah wait

waiiiit

[forest flume]

are you sure about that

[half surge]

since when they added count to them

[rustic kestrel]

like

week 2

[sterile verge]

I used this at the begining of a couple keys today. Lo and behold, interupts where not a problem for a change.

/p Challenge: Everyone get at least 10 interrupts this key. Details-> Interrupts tracks.

[forest flume]

They do give % and the pack of 3 most routes pull at the beginning give about 1%

[half surge]

yeah i was doing a little other shit and now i realize...

yeah... mb

[rustic kestrel]

ope there it is

i bet this is an annoying looking shield like the fucking tww cape

[half surge]

i mean its good, to have semi-stagger

[forest flume]

offtopic but also semi-related and fun thing, in Diablo 4 there is an item that does that - And the target dummies in the game dont kill you from their attacks, they reduce you to 1HP and thats it. But the item's dot can kill you, and people have died from it attacking the target dummies in that game.. on hardcore

[rustic kestrel]

beautiful

you know the worst part about this new thing

is that its going to flood this discord

"whuich omnium folio rune do i use"

when its going to be in a pin

[forest flume]

do we start a new bear discord

[rustic kestrel]

start a new one where we only do bear towers

and no text

[forest flume]

-> No macros -> No borrowed power discussion -> No lazy builds

and yes

[half surge]

cmoon

where other baer emoets

im not only one here

[forest flume]

[north ridge]

Hey boys quick question. As far as dps is concerned, how many targets do there need to be for HotW starfall do more dps than HotW feral frenzy?

[half surge]

question is unreasonable

[forest flume]

I'm fairly certain feral frenzy just does more damage than w/e you can do with starfall

[half surge]

u choose between prio dam and aoe dam

[forest flume]

you use starfall for agro purposes

[rustic kestrel]

Its like 6ish

[forest flume]

damage is secondary

[half surge]

and yeah.. agreed with oxez

starfall is more for gathering

[rustic kestrel]

But yeah, you really just want to do a prio target with FF, and only use starfall for gathering pulls that are spread

[half surge]

like 1st pull AA

[north ridge]

Got it, as far as raid encounters are concerned I should usually be using Feral Frenzy then

[half surge]

yeah

[north ridge]

Either way thanks for helping me out boys

❤️

[half surge]

but try not to use it while u active tanking without any cds

[north ridge]

got it got it

[forest flume]

Even in keys suppose starfall was to do 50k more than feral frenzy, it'd be mostly useless pad damage. But still useful to gather big packs

i contradict myself in that sentence but its fine

[half surge]

tbh i cannot even use FF HOTW, cuz in middle of pack im much focused to live

and in ST it has waay to big cd

[forest flume]

seems like you can do it safely as dotc but as ec it feels sketch in a big pack to try to get a FF on a big target

[solid rain]

In AA would you rip that more or less immediately while running in? I’ve never used HOTW on starfall

[forest flume]

i dont remember the talent name that makes it that way with dotc

[rustic kestrel]

you pop it and it makes wide gathers the easiest shit imaginable

[solid rain]

Yeah EC you drop ironfur stacks to do it right

[half surge]

for AA - i would pull 2 lashers > boomkin HOTW > pull 3rd + mosquito pack

while they run to u dh starts to pump

and u kinda need threat on them

so... yeah u would need hotw

[solid rain]

Ty will try today

[fiery pecan]

Pretty nice to use it on bosses with a damage amp

[half surge]

but u gott apress hotw before they are in melee

[half surge]

same here

like 2nd boss aa, 2nd boss npx

[forest flume]

last boss in seat

[half surge]

this too

[fiery pecan]

Tried to use ff for prio in a pack once and just got popped

[rustic kestrel]

As EC you need to do it during a low damage section, or less mobs in the pack

even with bark at a higher key level itl pop ya

[half surge]

idk if its even worth the risk...

[forest flume]

No

[rustic kestrel]

you just have to know your damage intake

[burnt sandal]

I mostly use it on bosses and at the end of pulls

[rustic kestrel]

if you know whats goin on its completely worth

[burnt sandal]

So rather then risking it on a priority add near the start of pulls. I wait til a couple things die and use it on what’s left

[rustic kestrel]

If you aren't comfortable then just sit on it till theres a mob left like what Yingas said

[forest flume]

That's what I usually do yep, thats the safe and smart play

[rustic kestrel]

Unless that one mob is a single flyer dude in seat

those guys FUCK

[forest flume]

Single flyer dude, whos that

[half surge]

u mean.. subjugator?

[fiery pecan]

Umbralfin I'd assume

[rustic kestrel]

these lil motherfuckers

[half surge]

but they are kinda useless mobs

[fiery pecan]

The guys that cast the heal

[rustic kestrel]

Each bite is a fucking goku bitch slap

[half surge]

i would say leech

[forest flume]

I guess ive never paid attention to their damage

are you sure you weren't standing in purple puddles

[outer cave]

The worst is the guy that punches you back and his minions charge you

[half surge]

same here.. only scary part is when u charge in at 19 key without IF

and only bark on

[half surge]

with right play u wont even notice it

[rustic kestrel]

I watch Andy walk into two of them and die in a global with only 1 ironfur up

they are fucked

[outer cave]

What is the right play? Is there a secret spot to not get knocked

[forest flume]

wild charge works but whats annoying is if the mob you're targeting for wild charge also moves towards you too fast, then you cant charge fast enough because of the min distance required

[rustic kestrel]

your dps stun for you

[outer cave]

Even in my 18s dps not stun for me

[half surge]

wild charge or kick charge into mob

like.. 0.4s after the knockback

[forest flume]

this place is just cursed tbh, "I'm taking too much damage, I could typhoon so I can stop incoming damage" but if you typhoon, all the champions charge you and you die

[half surge]

u will get knocked just enough for charge to work and champions wont charge u to bleed

[forest flume]

first pull is the most fun I had this season though

[rustic kestrel]

dont worry it never gets better

[forest flume]

have you done crazy stuff on first pull in seat bulok

[half surge]

u mean typhooning champions away to scare the shit out of healer?

[forest flume]

:')

[rustic kestrel]

you do the triple with the side champs pack

[forest flume]

is what we've been trying/doing

[rustic kestrel]

yeh

[forest flume]

i forgot about hotw/starfall yesterday

[rustic kestrel]

basically same thing just different spot

[forest flume]

its gonna make my life easier

Yeah the first time we picked the champ pack on the left

but its easier to keep that one to pull with boss

[half surge]

dont look at last part

its just marked for a count

[fresh dune]

I have to actually take the boomkin form in talents, to be able to hotw starfall yes?

[glass grove]

Ya

[fresh dune]

Alright ty

[covert stone]

I do this

perfect route

[vivid aspen]

can anyone give a tl;dr on sundering roar usage?

[merry quest]

reset thrash's cooldown

thats p much it

[trim plaza]

i look this and think why u give so much pain to urself/group

[covert stone]

Maybe you should keep going with some actual arguments.

[covert stone]

That’s even worse, you got one more pull, and it doesn’t make sense to me to take an Umbral with four Champions that are going to bleed you out every time you get knocked back.

[brazen tinsel]

you can use your kick to dash back and never get a bleed

[covert stone]

Even though the first route screen still hurts more and lasts longer.

[vernal perch]

Is it ever worth it to swap out 2x arcanoweave for Eye of Midnight + Loa Worshipper?
Everything is 289 apart from eye of midnight being 276

• current rings are nexus set

[quick schooner]

Im strictly m+ Player and im getting close to all myth slots + crafts. Would you take this for ilvl even if it will be lacking in packs? i have voidforged feather but hero track not myth one and dunno if its worth sacrificing, i know sims would tell me im just curious if its a good idea or no, im farming npx rings rn with bonus rolls so if next run wont give me other half i will sacrifice this for 3rd roll but if it drops i dunno (if i take this i will be full myth +2 crafts)

[glass grove]

I’d probably bonus roll wind runner spire over that?

[quick schooner]

Blood mallet says on 5 targets 3rd best option is stalker contract from seat tho, that's exacly why im asking cause every source says diff stuff ;-; my other trin is myth gaze so i can choose either banner, hero feather 285 or try to roll somewhere but i rolled once on seat and not a single time in spire so chances are really low to get trink right off the bat

[red knoll]

where the hell are people getting routes? dps just scream if im not running their specific route and get a different route linked every dungeon

so have to learn a new route every dungeon

[steel vault]

NO. U R TANK. Tank don't care if dps scream. Tank don't care if dps die. Tank has short ques. DPS have long ques. DPS go where tank goes, or dps die.

[glass grove]

Ya I’d just listen to sims then? If it says banner is a good upgrade the send it. Otherwise rng will decide how soon you get to upgrade your trinkets

[steel vault]

that said, I usually just use the "pug friendly" raiderio paths on keystone guru up to 14 or 15s

[glass grove]

Just random keystone guru and trying diff things on 18s rn for me. Been playing an alt healer and trying to avoid cursed pulls I notice other tanks doing

[red knoll]

im doing 20s

they expect a route

[glass grove]

Yeah just make one and take comments on what they’ve seen work maybe?

[quick schooner]

Yeeeeah thats pain, i fucked up % on AA once cause healer decided we skipping pack i was planning to take,ppl are so annoying, i thinki will download mdt addon link route at the start suck it up or replace me cause they aint listen even if its my key XD

[glass grove]

Bc besides 3chest/keystoneguru idk what else there is

[steel vault]

Some watch videos, and want todo the route they see xxx expert (andy, naohwa, whomever) to. Like, if Andy does it, some figure everyone should do it, eventhough Andy got pro team on voice.

Tank chooses path, dps shuts their piehole. - Dean Winchester I think

[steady moth]

i was stalking the top 15 druids for m+ and i saw some guys with 3pc only https://parseacademy.com/character/eu/kazzak/Maitaidudu, i didnt find anything related to that, does anyone know something?

[forest flume]

the no-apex build doesnt really use maul/raze so why use the 4pce

[steel vault]

ya noapex doesn't benefit from 4 piece much. That said, Im not sure the min/max of NOT taking tier is worth much, and some of us do raid with DOTC and apex, so tier usually worth it, IMO

[atomic glacier]

What i do is go to raider io, timed runs, and look up runs at 1 or 2 levels higher than I'm doing. Open like 20 routes and try to see if there's any standard route that lots of groups have done

Kinda sucks but haven't really found a better way to keep up to date with current meta routes

[glass grove]

How do you see route on logs

[odd cave]

Keep in mind a lot of the druid tanks are recent rerolls and might not have many charges to catalyse gear with

[atomic glacier]

No idea if you can see on logs, but raider io has a little icon next to the run if there's a route on the run

[steady moth]

oh, got it! tyvm

[glass grove]

Oh six thanks

[topaz arch]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DY2cr6viVaS/?igsh=MW8yMHBrb2draTNkdw==

Okay, who's ready to be nerfed again =/

[forest flume]

I am, please nerf me

[deep cobalt]

whats the best mitigation brambles, reinforced fur, or gift of the ancient guardian

[thin pecan]

Do we know if void or seat rings are better?

[trim plaza]

i have RF pretty much locked in every build

[red knoll]

tanks have been doing this since catacylsm

its not new

[red knoll]

Lol u start with 5 rn

wtf u mean

[hazy mural]

u can take all 3 if ur doing nopex

[river vessel]

is there a reason guardian druids aren't running puzzlebox a lot?

[red knoll]

cuz theyre cowards

[hazy mural]

the opportunity cost is not worth it for most ppl... especially now its nopex that is popular

[deep cobalt]

why isnt dream of cenarius being consumed for a rewgrowth with frenzied regen?

[sturdy prawn]

Hi guys we discovered tonight the P3 of Crown MM, after the first aspect ring, my co tank, a war, jump to the other platform, but Aleria dont jump on him. Do u have idea why ?

[river vessel]

so without mythic raid best trinkets to run would be a hero track gaze and myth track heart maybe? @hazy mural

[deep cobalt]

why isnt frenzied regen consuming dream of cenarius anymore?

[hazy mural]

I would sim but the windrunner trinkets are a very good shout on myth, same with the skyreach crit one

[hazy mural]

is it not?

not tried doc in a while

[deep cobalt]

it isnt for me haha

[hazy mural]

gonna have to test that... would be a big hit for doc

[deep cobalt]

is it cause im not taking reinvigoration?

[hazy mural]

oooh

yh thats it

u need reinv for it to proc regrowths... and tyhose regrowths consume a doc char ge

annoyingly, it does the same with DG but wont give the buff u would get from DG for the regrowth

[deep cobalt]

why does the raid build on discord have no reinvigoration then lol as elunes chosen

is that a mistake on the discord part?

or it wanting me to manually cast DOC during raid

[hazy mural]

no idea tbh, I dont play raid or check the builds too much but if ur going doc, then reinv is a very nice point

can still do so with reinv cause u wont use up all ur doc stacks with frenzied

[deep cobalt]

im very confused by the elunes chosen raid build here on discord now lol

[hazy mural]

maybe it is outdated

can check what ppl use on warcraft logs on the bosses to see a better picture

since it has a good heatmap

[solid rain]

i assume it's big for hard hard keys, but how squish am I in like 15-17s if i have really low vers? Sitting on 119 vers at 288 rn

[vague sage]

It does not matter. Vers is not some magic tank stat. You can get more vers if you want. It will come at the cost of something else

[hazy mural]

only thing that makes u squishier in terms of stats is low ilvl... apart from that it is all to do with how well u play t he dungeon with ur cds

all stats are good defensively

[olive compass]

do you guys have anything to check consummables during a readycheck or something, used to have it with MRT but new guild has made me swap to NSRT and it just doesnt have it so i played half of l'ura without flask/oil kekw

[thin pecan]

Is it worth taking Windrunner neck with leech from vault over Seat neck?

[hazy mural]

leech neck all day

[marble vine]

Do we use mangle in st or aoe at all?

To generate rage

Or just moonfire and trash

[olive compass]

depends on your build

[hazy mural]

depends on ur t alents, u dont use mangle for damage but can use it when u need extra rage

if u have soul of the forest and moonless night, u can use mangle for damage in ST especially

[clever bronze]

So got a little cheeky info for the bears out there. Felbear mage tower fight is absolute pisstake rn with the no apex build. Can completely cheese P1 by not standing in the poo puddle thrash range still hits and obviously moonfire and lunar beam are ranged attacks.

If you haven’t gotten the form go get it. I got it first attempt after watching a mechanic explanation video

Edit: not sure if this is common knowledge or not hahaha

[hazy mural]

theres always ppl around who havnt done itr yet... could help em! heard it has been pretty tough since midnight released

[vague sage]

Its so ugly though

The man-bear

[vague sage]

How much more damage is this?

[hazy mural]

not sure if its mor or less but it lets u have an extra button to press for ppl who hate the current popular build

[past olive]

Leeeeeeeeechhhhhhh

Take ittttttt omggggg

[glass grove]

Anyone seen a good commentary vid for skyreach last third on mid to high keys. I feel like I have to go into one of the pulls pretty dry and having trouble. Or is it more a look at logs from high key runs type deal

[fiery pecan]

It's better than default bear though

[mossy snow]

Anyone else think a Rotta the Hutt skin would be appropriate for us? 😆

[stiff phoenix]

I just want the normal man bears 🙁

[bold raft]

has anyone encountered null sunder not healing off?

Had a few times today/yesterday where ive taken ~5million healing and null sunder has kept stacking up to 30 without clearing

[stoic prairie]

Watching some high keys and I noticed the guardians don't use mangle procs at all in aoe? Do you just spam MF or swipe between thrashes?

[solid rain]

Moonfire, not swipe

[stoic prairie]

so you purely rely on thrash to generate rage?

[stiff phoenix]

Keep mangle bound, in case you need rage urgently, but yeah its pretty much just spam moonfire between thrash

[stoic prairie]

feels like every bit of rage would be useful when the mobs smashing my skull in, but dunno how much the extra ironfurs actually doing

[stiff phoenix]

I'm only doing 16s but the big pulls for me im pressing thrash as much as I can (with incarn its almost every gcd really) and spam spending rage on IF or FR

If I don't have incarn/lust it's thrash moonfire moonfire thrash or close enough to it

[stoic prairie]

do you just MF the main target and let it naturally spread?

[stiff phoenix]

yeah I haven't bothered to spread it but I'm assuming optimal play would be to mouseover a bunch of the mobs

you can make your moonfire a macro that either hits your mouseover, or if no mouseover hits your current target

[stoic prairie]

kinda scared I accidently moonfire something I don't want to if I make the default bind do that

[stiff phoenix]

Just pay attention 😛

[stoic prairie]

already too many plates spinning 🤯

[stiff phoenix]

it'll get easier with more reps. this is probably the easiest meta tank we've had for a while in terms of things you need to do/manage

[stoic prairie]

guess my rotation just got a lot simpler, I just worry too much about all the casts getting kicked and what not

first season actually tanking high keys, is quite a bit more stress than weeklies

[boreal heart]

You might want to mangle a little bit in st for some extra rage

When you hit 4min boss timers you also do want more rage regen so you can use 2 incarns and have it up for next pull

[merry sparrow]

Question for Guardians, do yall have Valeera dps or healer?

[stiff phoenix]

dps

[tired ravine]

whats the macro for mouse over bres

[stoic prairie]

/cast [@mouseover,exists] Rebirth

[tired ravine]

ty

[inland thorn]

hi there, for raid which one is better elunes or druid of the claw?

[olive hare]

same situation as in M+, both heroes are very close and depending on encounter and what kind of playstyle you prefer more, one or the other will do slightly better.

[inland thorn]

which one is more simple for raid?

i have to tank this weekend in my raid and im looking any info for help

[vapid forum]

Man I got a great name for my bear lol.. His name was Southflorida and I had that name since I was like 15.. But finally he has ascended

[olive hare]

I'd say Dotc is easier. With EC you have the constant minigame of aligning your LB with red moon. For Dotc LB is a lot weaker and a static 60s cooldown, so you know you'll Always have it for hotw, your wigu ravages and every 2nd red moon

[modern atlas]

Pressing Tab when a mob is casting puts me on that mob 99% of the time. No need to click 😄

[cinder oracle]

anyone have a place that i can go to improve i am doing a 18 nexus and i am struggling left wing i randomly just die and i dont know how to prevent

[narrow coral]

When do I use my trinket (first boss voidspire) I’m a troll so 3min berserk 1,5min trinket and idk how long incarn is tbh xD

[vernal perch]

Is it ever worth it to swap out Nexus ring set for Eye of Midnight + Loa Worshipper?
Set rings are 289, EoM 276

[fallen robin]

Sim question?

[vernal perch]

Sims are equal for damage

Thought there might be some hidden Loa Worshipper tech stuff

[fallen robin]

Defensively more stats is better than less, so ilvl wins

Nah. Just an embellishment, they're all w/e

[vernal perch]

Boring

[fallen robin]

If you're simming against an embellishment you should swap the embellishment into another slot.

[vernal perch]

Loa is 2nd

EoM is 0.8% behind

[fallen robin]

If you drop loa you could get arcanoweave on a different slot

[vernal perch]

Yeah that#s the currently equipped

Honestly I was just hoping for some funny tech. But not today i guess 😅

[fallen robin]

It's within the margin of error either way then. Not much else to think about.

[modern atlas]

Are you using DotC or EC build, and how big are you pulling? Which mobs actually kill you?

[cinder oracle]

Ec and here is the log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DbgZp3rqdMknH84K?fight=70&type=deaths

It’s deeps left to the seer it’s what I was told to pull

[tall basin]

pull 1 you can´t die you have cds up. pull 2 kite it. pull 3 you have cds up

then you are at boss

[cinder oracle]

I die pull 1 in cds

With Incarnation running

[tall basin]

what is your pull

[cinder oracle]

On my phone not sure if this worked

One sec

https://threechest.io?id=rfbpf9od3u

This is just pull 1

[rustic kestrel]

First pull you're essentially hitting frenzy every other gcd

[cinder oracle]

I am ment to or I am

[rustic kestrel]

you are meant to if you get bad dodge rng

if you let the absorbs stack up for even a couple seconds you wont get it back off

[cinder oracle]

That’s kinda the issue it builds so fast

And I can’t get it off

[rustic kestrel]

You can also typhoon/ursols for a moment

a 2nd point in reinvigoration can also help brute force through it

oh also, use DoC not dream guide

Dream guide stacks dont buff the regrowths on yourself properly

[cinder oracle]

Oh ok

[tall basin]

okay pretty standard.
but what helped me here is:
there are 4 shadow guard defender at the beginning. i do this:
opener catform into sprint.
then into moonkin + hotw
into travleform + jump + charge. (you fly over the first 2 guards)
mid air i press bear into moonfire spam this 2 guards.
(you should get 0 hits from this 2 guys)
then i use my roar for the next to and trash + moonfire on the. + you should have enough rage for your iron skin. keep it up!
moonfire + trash on the 2 guys left
charge into the 3 guys + kick caster + trash. - skin + luna
move to the left and pull the miniboss.
and then keep spaming trash - reg - trash - moonfire

nexus opener is really stupid. but since we got resi keys in keys like this i do over and over again the opener solo as tank and try to survive as long as possible.
it's also a good warmup by the way

and idk why but some people don't use pre incarn + pre pot

[cinder oracle]

Ok this helps a lot and I have to try and get a build with moo kin

Moonkin

[cinder oracle]

Uh I incarnate but forgot to pot this dung

[tall basin]

report

XD

[cinder oracle]

Lmao

My mental was cooked lol

I just could not get this key j am so close to 18 res and this key is killin me

[tall basin]

some keys are cooked XD
i had the same problem on MC 18. idk why but it was a 3 day progress... over 50 depleted keys. most of them are wipes on second boss...
19 MC was a first try
and 20 was 2-3 trys
idk some days are losing days XD

[cinder oracle]

Yes I think what was killing my mental is not knowing what was killing me

Like I was just diying so fast

Oh what build do you use that has moonkin

All the builds I saw didn’t

[tall basin]

you don't need moonkin that much
moonkin is cool in some pulls like AA or pit first pull.
but it's never a must have

you can take the 2 points from moonkin for the other one
all of them are personal preferences.
1 say he need the extra shield from matted fur
the other say he want more speed (forestwalk 2nd point) + lycara's
the other say he wanted to support heal with symbiotic + innvertate
and some play with fluid form + something else (maybe ursine vigor could be a good option too)
this 2 point's don't matter that much

[lone flare]

https://vm.tnktok.com/ZGdHWWQN7/ inb4 another nerf

Naowh (@naowhgaming)

❤️ 869 💬 42 🔁 984

▶ Play video

fxTikTok · May 27, 2026, 5:37 PM

[olive hare]

Oh noes, bears not only can do snoozefest keys but also snoozefest hero bosses. Nerf pls

Wondering how many of those we're playing slop and how many an actual raid build

[lone flare]

no idea, I am hoping there's a log

[clever bronze]

i just realized 4 set does nothing for no apex build

[lone flare]

i'm curious

[solemn crane]

why is it i press thrash and its not enough for threat for warriros and rets

[carmine burrow]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZHBgVbYKDTnd3MfC?fight=29&type=summary

[lone flare]

excellent!

let's have a look

very small number of raze-less people

quite surprised

[half surge]

cuz they only know zugzug

and go full ham all the bursts in next moment they see a mob tagged

[lone flare]

there's a hero who didn't even mangle a meaningful amount of times

[still locust]

If you happen to maul even just once over a few keys worth of content you're better off having 4p equipped

[carmine burrow]

4 mangles 😛

[lone flare]

it's only the hotw swaps i think

[still locust]

There's no meaningful gain to having different stats in those tier slots

[narrow coral]

Is it better to use 2 procc trinkets like gaze + heart of wind or 1 use like first boss voidspire or feather ?

[stiff phoenix]

I’ve had no issue with warriors. Rets with no brain have been a problem since the dawn of time

And I main ret normally lol

[still locust]

Generally speaking an on-use is better since stacking cooldowns increases the effect of each cooldown

But double passive is also viable if you don't have an on-use or you don't want to use one for whatever reason you might have

[narrow coral]

and when do I use the haste use trinkets ? With berserk(troll) and incarn or inbetween with sundering roar ?

[stiff phoenix]

@solemn crane basically their damage and CDs is super instant and accessible most pulls so if they don’t let you group and zug too early they generate heaps of threat

If it’s consistent I usually say something like “hey let me group the mobs then we can zug”

[still locust]

If you have an on-use (and it's not puzzle box) the simplest is to just macro it into incarn

[still locust]

The ~50% damage difference between top and middle, and more than 100% difference betwen bottom and top is funny

[solemn crane]

it is a constant battle

[trim plaza]

i have now bricked 2 keys to maisara second boss, there is noway this boss is this hard for dps players right?

[narrow coral]

Okay, thanks! So i should just use trinket / berserker / incarn in 1 macro

[still locust]

That's generally the best, and the easiest

[quartz geode]

i think maisara second boss, the dps don't know whether to run the ghosts left to right or front to back and while they're figuring it out, one player will get hit by the frontal cone spin

[narrow coral]

It’s probably the connect ghosts without getting touched + don’t know direction for boss frontal xD

[narrow coral]

Thanks 👍

[quartz geode]

OR they connect the ghosts but forget to pop a defensive and they connect the ghosts pairs in sequence too close before healer can top the party up (can be an issue the higher damage in higher keys)

[stiff phoenix]

I’ve only had issues with maisara 2 boss in low key

But people just not knowing ghosts yea

One group just ran into the ghosts themselves

Wipe

[quartz geode]

i remember that happening a lot in pre-season

[stiff phoenix]

Maybe cause I been gearing my warrior

2-9 keys are like non existent

Get to 10 and floodgates open

[shut jasper]

blizz has been struggling to make lower keys relevant and with 10s being easier than ever it got worse

[jovial mauve]

In r1 keys they are lusting on 2nd boss intermission because the last boss will die after 2 intermissions even if u dont pop lust in there

Ppl usually use bl on 3rd boss intermission to get advantage of the amp dmg

But is a bait

[trim plaza]

how u can even have lust on 2nd boss

mby by lusting first boss

but i have never done that XD

[narrow coral]

Isn’t lusting first pull , pull after first boss and last boss the usual thing to do in MC ?

[trim plaza]

exactly

we had lust coming off cd when first boss was like 20% hp, no shot we use it there anymore

higher keys mby

[jovial mauve]

Feather or guidon sims higher then heart wind so… the bis for dps is plume/puzzlebox+gaze, if u dont have plume and dont want to get stunned for 2 sec while gathering feather is the next in dps, guidon sims a bit lower than feather and guidon will be like 30 sec offcd w8ing for incarn. With feather maybe u have to delay incarn 5sec. And defensively+early agro gathering dreadscale is the best to pair with gaze

[narrow coral]

idk but if u hold bl for first boss and maybe have it for 2nd u still won’t get 3 bls

[jovial mauve]

As usual y, the standard routes are not always the best optimized ones

[trim plaza]

higher keys u will have lust back on first boss after first pull

[narrow coral]

Yeah I hate puzzlebox and won’t get mythic plume or dreadscale

[trim plaza]

but all this depends on how gigachads ur dps are

so ye

[jovial mauve]

Then feather+gaze

Depending on the route u will lust on 1st pull and then on 1st boss or as i prefer, the pack after 1st boss

[narrow coral]

Yeah I won’t do keys higher as 17-18 probably

So no biggie 😅

[jovial mauve]

Then u will have lust up for 2nd boss 2nd intermission

All the best routes tend to clear a lot after the miniboss room

So u make time for bl

U can bl on 2nd boss if the key is really high

But most of the pugs bl last boss intermission

I did a 20 yesterday bl last boss and was fine, they dps the 2nd boss shield really good

[narrow coral]

im only doing routes based of what I remember from playing shadow / disci 😅 it’s definitely not optimal for higher keys rn lul and I over/undercap by 1-2% sometimes

[jovial mauve]

Wf +24 they are lusting 2nd boss

And even without lust, they kill the boss after the 2nd intermission

[narrow coral]

Well last boss if dps has all cds for amp probably melts enough I guess

[jovial mauve]

So bl makes 2nd boss safer and the last boss wont do the 3rd intermission without lust

[narrow coral]

+24 ppl are from another dimension anyway lul

[jovial mauve]

Also if u lust in a 18 its really weird that u kill the boss before the 2nd intermission

Btw if u kill totems theres no chance to wipe on last boss

[stiff phoenix]

Yeah unless you have a guild or team getting an alts key to ten is kind of painful lol

[shut jasper]

yup

[lone flare]

It's a funny log for sure

[left lantern]

you will lose a lot of uses on the trinkets by doing that, at that point just play 2 passive trinkets and youre better off

[still locust]

It's not really that straight forward

Often incarn is on a 2 min timer (or even longer), even if you get the CD lower anyway because you hold it to enable a huge pull

[left lantern]

guidon is 1:30 tho

[still locust]

And empowering your incarn window can definitely be stronger than being overall stronger

Just on account of those pulls being more important/bigger

[left lantern]

if you only press every 2 minutes you lose 1 use every 8 minutes

[still locust]

It's simmable, but I'm 95% sure guidon still wins even if you use it on a 2 min timer

[left lantern]

thats like 3-4 over a dungeon

[still locust]

Yeah it's very likely still better

Because stacking cooldowns is insanely strong

But if you're worried about that, run emberwing instead

[hazy mural]

not having an extra shield on the 2nd boss can be better than the bl on last boss since unless u got crazy burst, its likely to last longer than the intermission anyways

[jovial mauve]

Thats the problem with guidon but still simming higher than most of passive trinkets behind plume and gaze

[left lantern]

idk when i play guidon i just slam on cd and be gud with it

[jovial mauve]

Prob is better to hold for incarn

[left lantern]

nah

[hazy mural]

double passive also allows u to pre incarn with pot without having to use a seperate incarn for pre incarnm with pot without ur trinket

[left lantern]

unless i know i will chain big in the next 10 seconds why would i hold, get good usage out of it anyway

[hazy mural]

amount of times I wasted a feather use

[jovial mauve]

I use a macro for incarn but in my consumables bar have incarn so i click and use potion binding at same time

[hazy mural]

I have a seperate incarn I click for pre incarns

but the moment u forget it...

[jovial mauve]

Yep also in raid packs or early boss progress where i dont want to waste a potion

[oblique badge]

Hey guys
Im struggling a lot for the packs before 3rd boss of AA. Im in 21 and I dont know, I can't. Im taking care of my cds but still dieing....
I dont know what to do.

[trim plaza]

i just dont see a point using on use trinket with no apex, expect dreadscale

[hazy mural]

do u have any logs of the failed runs?

[trim plaza]

and even with apex build only puzzle box is actually powerful, haste ones are meh

[oblique badge]

Sadly no..

I cant log. Its not working

[trim plaza]

its battleaxes, gotta kite if u are out of gas, only IF wont save u

[hazy mural]

ahhh without logs, can only guess on the problem but its usually battleaxes, right?

[trim plaza]

also to note, u should pretty much save every cd in the world for that pull

[left lantern]

go in with SI, after SI bark + incarn, after incarn bark again -> roughly 60 seconds covered, kite the remaining hp, rinse and repeat

[oblique badge]

It was that pull

[hazy mural]

u want to have either incarn up for em or LB+ a wall (BS or SI) to be able to facetank em hard... without that combo, ur in trouble, LB by itself can still put u in the dirt with em

[left lantern]

also ask your MW to give you cocoon while gathering, makes the initial damage intake a lot smoother

[trim plaza]

if he has mw at first palce xd

but any external tbh

[oblique badge]

Was playing with a sham

[hazy mural]

ur on ur own then

[oblique badge]

When i died, DK/DH tells me " ping when u need ext " but it was one shotted

So hard to ping 🥲

[jovial mauve]

U always have to kite axes outside barskin, incarn or si

[hazy mural]

save ur typhoon and vortex for kites there