guardian

[zinc oar]

thank you both

[covert stone]

Most of people will tell you to not macro ironfur tho.

[zinc oar]

so all dump goes to fur, no maul

[covert stone]

For 20+ I think so or you are dead lol

[quaint pond]

it's bad if your goal is to learn the spec and stick with it long term

but if you just wanna enjoy being OP before they try to kill it in 12.1

thne by all means

[covert stone]

It’s not hard without macro I get it. I am just lazy and it’s not interested.

I think they should rework a bit on the ironfur

[silk zephyr]

i just macro ironfur 😛

lol

[covert stone]

Yeaaaaa

[quaint pond]

it is a new player unfriendly system for sure

[covert stone]

You know even top 10 players do it tho 😭

[zinc oar]

im guessing this will be fixed soon by blizz

[covert stone]

Not all of them

But some

[quaint pond]

well they'll try to fix it in 12.1

[still trellis]

Hey guys, I have a problem with my teddy bear. How can I join a pull without getting one-shotted? And another thing, how do I stop being so slow?

[quaint pond]

we'll see if they're successful

[silk zephyr]

i did just hit a major milestone on boss kills tho guys 😄

[zinc oar]

sorry, another question, what do we do during incarn?

[silk zephyr]

same thing as out of incarn, spam moonfire/thrash

but faster

[covert stone]

And ironfur

Faster

[silk zephyr]

well

that should be macro'd in

😛

[covert stone]

Hahaha

https://tenor.com/view/aladdin-jafar-run-running-faster-gif-16953068259159553746

[quaint pond]

they keep saying they don't like this but this is the 3rd time in 3 xpacs they've brought this playstyle back

[covert stone]

https://tenor.com/view/arthritis-finger-broken-fingers-finger-pain-gif-13027392

At the end of the season

All the drood

For 20+ do you guys rotate between lunar beam and bark? I feel I get fucked pretty fast if I have none of those up.

Like do you make sure to always have one of those on?

Like I struggle on AA: Pull bridge into triple pull vexamus adds is hard.

On 20

I tried to save on bridge but it’s pretty hard

[olive hare]

If only mouses came with a software. Which lets you macro to repeat a certain key bind on toggling or holding it

[covert stone]

You do this? lol

[silk zephyr]

ive considered it, ngl, trying to invent this new idea, that is

[olive hare]

Oh hell yeah, did it for whole TWW S3 bc I wasnt having any of the fur spam insanity.

[covert stone]

Yea just the macro in game should work the same

[silk zephyr]

i wish you could do moonfire/thrash/ironfur in 1 macro

🙁

[covert stone]

You can’t 🙁 moonfire an trash are on the global

[silk zephyr]

used to be able to 🙁

[olive hare]

Even made a ticket to make sure its not a bannable offense. Its legal, because wow itself has a spam functionality, its just broken af and doesnt do what its supposed to.

[covert stone]

Which key level are you running?

[ebon plaza]

only you can do thrash and ironfur that's it

[silk zephyr]

pretty sure it is, 1 key press = 1 action

[covert stone]

I put macro ironfur on trash AND moonfire

[silk zephyr]

same

[covert stone]

Like this I am sure I don’t fall off

Because in 20, if you miss ONE ironfur, you have three buttholes the second after.

[tight compass]

What im about to teach you is forbidden knowledge, but you can do this with a castsequence macro.

(outside incarn)
/castsequence thrash, moonfire, moonfire, moonfire

[silk zephyr]

and when incarn is up thats terrible

or lust

[tight compass]

So do another one

lust doesnt change anything

[silk zephyr]

trying to reduce buttons

not make mroe

lust gives thrash lower CD

???

[ebon plaza]

no

[quaint pond]

lust reduces gcd

[tight compass]

and lowers your global cd at the same rate

[silk zephyr]

thrash cooldown is based on haste

lust gives haste

[zinc oar]

we might just use the 1 button option

[silk zephyr]

lust reduces thrash CD

[covert stone]

1 button rotation has a global handicap

[tight compass]

lust reduces global cd too, theres always 3 globals between thrash no matter haste levels outside incarn

[silk zephyr]

it does that AS WELL, yes

but no, theres not always 3 globals

with lust

[tight compass]

yes lmao

[quaint pond]

there is until you hit the cap

[covert stone]

What about the tab targeting moonfire thing? Do you guys do it?

Like if you add a tab targeting you get more dots faster

I just press it on the same target for now

[olive hare]

I mean on a gather youre trying to get as many moonfires out as possible. Once the pull is stacked you dont really need to bother it, gg will fill the gaps fast and twin moons will still prio mobs without moonfire with the 2nd application.

[covert stone]

But like on the AA first pull

It’s kinda more efficient

To do the tab macro

I feel

Like on big big pulls like this

[tight compass]

sure, but moonfiring the smallies dont actually do anything as they'll just die to aoe anyway

[covert stone]

Yea true

[olive hare]

On that pull I just tag each lasher once and go boomer > hotw > roar immediately before starting thrashfiesta.

[covert stone]

Same

That boomer>hotw move is such a cool thing

I am a huge fan

[olive hare]

(at least with dps who I cant trust to calm the fuck down until the pull is stacked. boomer hotw is a blessing with omega suicidal dps mates)

[covert stone]

Yea Naowh is always playing it now.

It’s just better for everyone

Like the devourer Dh

[olive hare]

In some comps its legit yeah. But I'm talking from a 17-18 pov since I only do social guild keys. In 20+ keys getting boomer hotw comes at a cost, even if its just passing on matted fur or phi.

[covert stone]

Like I lose some self healing stuff?

Yea maybe it’s bad on some keys

I feel really squishy on some pulls

[vast linden]

Are bleeds affected by armor?

[covert stone]

It should be since it’s physical

[vast linden]

Should be... but historically bleeds are not affected by armor. Does anyone know for sure?

[covert stone]

Yea I guess yes but I am not sure either.

[covert stone]

It seems it’s not. They say it on multiple platforms.

From 2025 posts

So I guess it’s accurate

[olive hare]

Yep bleeds and sonic damage bypass armor

[serene ruin]

Is sonic damage

Yelling

Like that roar thrash thing

[fallen robin]

It's damage that says it is Sonic.

[covert salmon]

Sonic damage? Never heard of it

[olive hare]

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=172145/shriekwing

One of the more recent examples, 1st boss Castle Nathria

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=330711/earsplitting-shriek

[carmine void]

is it worth using heart of the wild in boomie form for m+? i feel like we give up some defensiveness for it, or to mee it seems that way, in order to get to it.

[trim plaza]

i use it only in AA and Pit first pulls

myself

mby seat too

[jovial mauve]

When pulling axes y, u have to always use a defensive up or u have to kite

[jovial mauve]

He just did the reel/short be he never ran the key with moonkin talent

[stiff phoenix]

Stampeding or Incap?

[hushed rose]

Does anyone have a macro for using Heart of the Wild that swaps you into cat form, casts heart of the wild, then back to bear?

or did they break those types of macros

[olive hare]

Incap

[rustic kestrel]

the most recent example is Dread Ravens Dire Screech

in current season 🤣

[olive hare]

Its a ~~bfa ~~wod dungeon, sl is more recent

🥳

[sharp gale]

skyreach is from wod tho

[trim plaza]

^

[shut jasper]

you can also have phys hits that bypass armor without having any fancy name

it's just about the flag that blizz decided to put on the ability

[olive hare]

shit thats what I meant

[rustic kestrel]

Zzz

[trim plaza]

as much as i have liked this season dungeon pool, im already waiting to get out of skyreach prison

[shut jasper]

I love skyreach because I haven't been pushing, I'd hate it if I was

[trim plaza]

its the pinnacle of "fck tanks"

[shut jasper]

first boss is also a bit of a pain as caster

[half surge]

im more concerned about seat the "pug deleter"

[trim plaza]

seat is one of those "clean runs" until u reach third boss room and all goes to south

[shut jasper]

aa is still my least favorite

[trim plaza]

it was goated dungeon until they had to give some stupid bleed to first pull and make changes to bosses

[hazy mural]

skyreach literally scares me

[half surge]

if u plan ur cds its not as scary

some pulls require u to have incarn

but other than that its fine if dps can burst down the pack

[trim plaza]

y expect pull after 3rd boss is a big middle finger for tank

[sage zinc]

Just have to have a decent team/pug. More than 2 adepts of the dawn on 19+ you’re much kiting the whole time. Nothing compared to the meta left side pull in NPX. The defenders are the incredibly overtuned

[half surge]

gladly bear has a lot of tools to kite

and u can always rely on aug/others

[sage zinc]

Ursols then a typhoon runs out pretty quickly compared to how long the pull takes. Pmuch mandatory to have an engineer/rogue for npx to give you more room. Rest of the dungeon is cake, it’s just the first 2 pulls have 10 defenders between them and you go from 0 to 12 stacks instantly. It’s ridic.

[trim plaza]

as a tank it just feels always so bad to kite 2 mobs

[elfin copper]

can i just ccraft the aetherlune optics (engineer googles) with haste if im low on haste or is there a downside i dont know? they have only 1 stat

[jovial mauve]

they should be the same dw, the thing is to pick craft head or another set piece

for example i only had nonmyth pants and shoulders so i crafted sholders because tierset pants has haste

but stats are not that important

btw u can only use googles if u are engineer

just craft nonmyth gear that u still have in hero/champ

[jovial mauve]

we lucky they are ez to kite

for some reason when i go out of mele for 2 sec they doesnt follow me

for skyreach as druid is hard to shadowmeld skip because cant dash or tp back so in pugs i do nonskip route

always have incarn rdy after 3rd boss so i pull elemental+bladetalon+3mobs at left side, y i go left side because at right side there's another bladetalon

i mark skull on elemental and when it dies i pull another elemental and the pack upstairs

then when i have my incarn back i pull the bladetalon pack upstairs

if 1st bladetalon died, i have no incarn and elemental still alive i gather the construct pack

if elemental died but still have no incarn up i pull the last elemental pack

the only thing with adepts is to kite when ur about 5 stacks

and pop a defensive when bladetalon charge overlaped with the armor debuff on u

[hazy mural]

they just nasty if the adds live too long, and they usually do xD

[covert prairie]

whats the logic behind our rage sometimes staying the number it was,or going up or getting set to 25 sometimes when we change form?

[wise tartan]

is there a macro or something for heart of The wild to quick go into cat form, hotw, back to bear form?

[lucid arrow]

castsequence works fine for this

/castsequence reset=5 Cat Form, Heart of the Wild, Bear Form

[covert prairie]

wouldnt it be better to just use mangle (with fluid form)?

[lucid arrow]

if you have fluid form yes

then just rake, hotw, mangle

[wise tartan]

ty m8

[rotund maple]

Why is tanking so painfully easy? I have never tanked in my life, read one guide, did a 10 then a 15 to get used to defensives and rotation, walked into an 18 a bit nervous not wanting to ruin the key.

Not once did my health drop below 50% and I was pumping damage

Like wtf why have I been dpsing my whole life if I can just do this

[lucid arrow]

because you're playing bear first of all

[brazen tinsel]

not gonna pretend like tanking is super difficult

but playing the probably easiest version of a tank of all time

doesnt make it any harder lmao

[shy berry]

Tanking has definitely been dumbed down a lot but it's probably for the best

[rotund maple]

[lucid arrow]

i mean if you're not bear or brew

you kinda have the added difficulty of having to actually think about your survivability

otherwise ye you just learn your route and you're good until 20s

[rotund maple]

I have 20 resil from cat so I'm about to try a 20 NPX as baer.

[covert prairie]

anyone?xD

[kindred meteor]

im confused as to where to use my bonus rolls should I use it all in one place?

[merry quest]

New toon?

[kindred meteor]

nah I have some myth items

[merry quest]

Sim a dungeon droptimiser and pick whatever dungeon gives you the highest number of solid upgrades

No point picking somewhere that only has a single big upgrade while you still have slots to fill

[kindred meteor]

I tried simming but it said I need premium

[merry quest]

Can you show? That sounds odd

[brazen tinsel]

i think you do if you want to sim all dungeons at the same time

[high path]

It's a bug related to hr and fluid form

[merry quest]

Ah yeah, I just checked too

[high path]

If you press mangle then shift right after it "saves" your rage

[merry quest]

@kindred meteor just run 8 droptimiser - one per dungeon

[high path]

There's also an archaic bug similar that's related to incarn but no one's ever been able to reliably replicate it

[merry quest]

You should be able to still set them all running at the same time

[kindred meteor]

okay i'll try it out tysm!

[shut jasper]

gnome figured it out last season

incarn "snapshots" your current rage, next shapeshift (from a form that's not cat) outs you at that value

[high path]

okay but no

because it's not consistent

[mighty rain]

Howdy bears, first time poster long time lurker. I’m one of those older aarp gamers, been playing WoW the better part of two decades focusing on healing the past several years. I’d like to make the jump to tanking, and with the recent changes it looks like a great time to do it. Any tips for a basic dope who is used to following the group from 20 yards behind to stay out of aggro? I’ve been looking at mdt for routes, but nervous about pulling too far or too short, like I’ll just park it in the wrong spot. I just came back to the game recently, so not super geared and only a smidge over 2500. Any tips are appreciated, thanks all

[shut jasper]

seemed fairly consistent when I tried "power shifting" a few months back

iirc going cat resets it so that might be a big part of the supposed inconsistency

[trim plaza]

Start slowly, build confidence and keep learning, i recommend checking tactyks he has alot of good dungeon guides and tips about tanking, good guides for a new tank and he has some fine routes too!

[mighty rain]

Thanks, I’ll check out that channel, appreciate it.

[quick schooner]

Well, is there any alternative for old automarker addon? Any tool other then macroing stuff? As a tank im getting closento 3.5k score im planning to talk to my guildies and will try to make a single squad for higher keys and i want to optimize cc and interupts...

[jaunty dragon]

Have them use a focus interrupt macro it's not your role to mark each mob for them , itruliaqol does a good job for it or they can just use a macro to focus a target and place a marker on it

[olive compass]

dont be afraid to do dungeons and mess up, people will literally complain even if you play perfectly, do your own thing and try to improve on specific things little by little

[rotund maple]

These defenders in NPX truck

[mighty rain]

Thank you, I really just need to get over that I am going to ruin four other peoples day (sarcasm). Spending the morning watching videos, might drop my key a level or two and try to send it..

[queen kernel]

as someone who dips in and out of retail and just did 10s for the first time last week. it isnt that bad. as long as you know your buttons. use the highlight thing and easy peasy

pull light to get a feel for the group then increase or decrease as you need. as tank you control the pace

and just ignore the dickheads that dont want to tank but always want to complain. low mythics aint that serious

[olive compass]

dont drop the key level, sometiems the difference between +1/+2 will impact the way you want/need to use certain defensives, just send it and have faith in your judgement and reaction time

[covert prairie]

Ty bro that has been on my mind for quite some time

[forest flume]

invite warlocks and tell them to press curse of weakness / blight of weakness, makes those mobs almost a joke

[rotund maple]

I've decided I no longer want to tank

(that's all the first hallway of npx btw)

[desert pecan]

Npx left side just sucks

Esp if people don’t know what each mob does

[wild bloom]

As I said I know that but once you reset it 6 or 7 times I was out of option

[unborn dock]

Do you have a log to see your movement ? Sure it's not easy, but you have so many tools to kite them, as long as you are aware of the debuff and don't let it go too high you are good. Typhoon and incap roar are both 30 sec CDs and should be enough if you rota them well to destack, you can even vortex once.

[hazy mural]

problem also is if u kite too much, u seperate em from the orbs and dps never go for orbs, and they all live forever. If u have dps who have big cds for the pack and blast em from oblivion, its all good, but if they last a while, it's hell

[wild bloom]

Yeah that's what happened

[glossy mauve]

Is seat just the best place to reroll on a new druid?

[jovial mauve]

id say npx for rings or wrs for trinkets

if u dont give a f about raid

if u want raid parsing and progress AA is better

btw, MM chimaerus is doable with pugs and is the best roll imo

[rotund maple]

Is me constantly having to kite the defenders in NPX a healer issue or just what you're supposed to do?

Some healers I never go above 4 stacks some I get up to 11

[jovial mauve]

i outhealed them in a 20 just before

[shut jasper]

the amount of stacks has a lot to do with your dodge rng

[jovial mauve]

if u have incarn u can spam FR if u need

the 2nd pack is harder and maybe u have to kite a bit

also u have health potion

for me the worst moment is the 1st pull gathering

but once they are stacked and u pop incarn should be ez

[rotund maple]

The first pull is fine it's the second one with no incarn

[jovial mauve]

2nd pack just rotate defensives, use FR just when u really need it and kite a bit

u can vortex, health potion..

if u dont need to use SI in 1st pack u can land 1 or 2 charges for 2nd

also barskin on cd

FR is really powerful can outheal a big absortion

[hazy mural]

best is windrunner as every piece is great for bears, just make sure ur tank spec when u go there

[tall arch]

Thrash hits mobs in all directions? Like literally 360 degrees?

[brave mica]

Is Raze not a spell anymore?

[silk zephyr]

720 degrees actually

[forest flume]

It's in the spec tree yes. It replaces maul on your bar if you take it.

[fierce hemlock]

is it worth learning how to use raze, new to guardian

[olive hare]

Right now we're in a state where a build which doesnt maul/raze in m+ for the most part outperforms the other builds by a fair amount. But maul/raze is still crucial for raid builds and once our apex will get the rework (12.1 maybe) the chance is very high we might end up razing again in m+ as well.

[rustic kestrel]

theres also not anything to learn

you spend rage on ironfur, excess you press raze

[olive hare]

Yeah its maybe an afternoon worth of keys to get a feeling for the economy and the hitbox of raze/ravage.

[unborn dock]

Don't have the issue I save my apex for the orb, it gets deleted.

[hazy mural]

apex?

[fierce hemlock]

ok, I do not know the dmg patterns as of now and I feel that as soon raze is in the pucture so is maul

[rustic kestrel]

raze is maul

raze replaces it

[rustic kestrel]

It what people of higher class use

not like you peasents

[vagrant ocean]

anyone know

if forestwalk or symbiotic is better in m+

[hazy mural]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-cat-slap-slap-gif-2895385951685947789

[hazy mural]

[olive hare]

Hard to compare, symbiotic is some decent offhealing for the squishiest dps in your group, while forestwalk adds some extra power to your frenzied regens and has some other niche uses (like the movementspeed bonus + EC moonfire slow is enough to reset fiery talon stacks in SR by zooming out)

My personal opinion: Ditch both and go fluidform

[hazy mural]

idk, forestwalk is great

more speed atm

esp with auto regrowths

[unborn dock]

Apex is actually useful on some djs, it adds some nice burst for some mechanics like the orb, tentacles in seat. And I like the playstyle, still feels bad to deal the same DMG overall as turtle builds

[hazy mural]

thats the thing, it all depends on how much u play for power vs interesting button presses

[olive hare]

Yeah it gets better if you FR a lot

[hazy mural]

if u play for power enough even tho u prefer interesting button presses, always gonna feel bad with the greener grass

[vagrant ocean]

how is that good

[hazy mural]

DG also procs quite a bit

I dont use reinv anymore but DG does a lot of procs

[olive hare]

less dead globals from using hotw

[hazy mural]

I mean its small enough u dont notice it

every 2 mins

[olive hare]

Plus faster transitioning, can zoom assemble a new pull in cat form and go bear by pressing mangle.

[hazy mural]

as EC?

[olive hare]

sure its not like youre oneshot without fur stacks and youll pop bark anyways as mobs are getting closer

[vagrant ocean]

is regular EC moonfire not fast enough to reset fiery talon stacks?

i didnt even think about that lol

ur a nerd

[hazy mural]

its not

I tried =/

[olive hare]

yeah 20% slow doesnt cut it alone

[hazy mural]

needs a bigger slow

[vagrant ocean]

maybe take infected wounds and mangle them??

doable??

[hazy mural]

waste of a point tbh

[olive hare]

infected wounds does the job, but its not exactly good with no apex

[hazy mural]

I mean UW also almost a waste tbf... but it should work with the bleeds at least

so its something

[vagrant ocean]

well

how much does ursols warding

give

in magic dr

[forest flume]

we're monday, surely they announce another wave of thrash nerf right?

[hazy mural]

its weird but it really depends on ur dps doing their job and deleting the pack

[vagrant ocean]

nah

unlikely

[forest flume]

sad

[hazy mural]

u just cant deal with it by urself forever properly

[vagrant ocean]

they already stated

[hazy mural]

as long as some more maul nerfs come with it 😉

[vagrant ocean]

they want bear to do more damage then other tanks explcitely

idk why but yeah

[forest flume]

that does not mean they can't nerf thrash

we were already doing more than other tanks before they buffed it by 200%

[vagrant ocean]

well thrash is the highest damage in the EC build

[forest flume]

in all content lol

[vagrant ocean]

and apex rework isnt coming

[hazy mural]

its gonna stay this way till end of season

[vagrant ocean]

extremely unlikely

they nerf bear

for the rest of the sesaon

[forest flume]

buffing raze and nerfnig thrash isn't an apex rework

[hazy mural]

depends... MOH was taking over too

[forest flume]

why did raze ever get nerfed that was so fucking dumb

[vagrant ocean]

their not gonna do that because that would shift meta build

[hazy mural]

and Bear was hot and cold depending on ur skill lvl

[vagrant ocean]

and they already stated they wont touch EC untill rework

[forest flume]

meta build, its been 2 weeks

[hazy mural]

least threat mostly fixed

[forest flume]

Lol

[vagrant ocean]

for m+

[forest flume]

nerfing thrash is not "touching EC"

[vagrant ocean]

its nerfing the meta m+ build...

[forest flume]

am I talking to an AI

[vagrant ocean]

because thrash does arcane damage.

[forest flume]

I think I am

[vagrant ocean]

are you a brew player?

lmao

[forest flume]

My brother, I've main'd bear since BFA

[spice nebula]

Because that is the “niche” or fantasy that bears realistically should fill. High damage output tanks that rely on heavy armor/avoidance. Just like DKs were imagined as initially when they were compared to initially, it was worded that they would be plate tanks but more similar to Druid.

[hazy mural]

its the age old bear argument... to easy or not to easy

[forest flume]

Me asking for thrash nerf is not someone asking their previous-fotm to be fotm again, I hate this dumb and stupid build

[hazy mural]

keeping thrash style as it is is to easy, but they could somehow nerf it and make raze the play again and now its not easy for a lot of bear players and now they complain a lot xD

I think funnily, enough its perfect atm

if u want a not too easy style, can have it, if u want easy style, can have it but ppl want the not easy style to be better cause its not easy and wont feel stupid for not playing the easy style

[forest flume]

One core rotation button (also a builder), as well as the very first talent in our tree, not being used, is "perfect" to you? lol

[hazy mural]

mangle not being used is the real problem tbh

[vagrant ocean]

mangle is more "bear" then raze

[hazy mural]

but apart from that, this is a bear style thats been around quite a bit till raze became good

and ofc TWW, this style (with mangle) was the dominant way of playing too

[spice nebula]

I do have a question. So do we entirely skip mangle/maul and just repeatedly spam Moon Fire to lower the lunar beam CD? Despite in the moment Maul or Mangle being a higher dmg option.

For example the 1 button rotation will recommend mangle and maul frequently as it’s higher DMG than MoonFire I’d guess.

[forest flume]

idk why you're bringing up raze

[hazy mural]

its weird but not using mangle or maul is more damage as long as u dont have the sotf and mn talents

[forest flume]

Even on ST people aren't pressing maul (the very first talent in the tree)

[hazy mural]

u use mangle for a quick dirty way of getting rage when u need it

whether to keep IF up or to get incarn up a bit quicker

[vagrant ocean]

Nerfing thrash could bring back bears threat problems even now its not great and could break EC (meta m+ build atleast) which explicitely stated will not be done untill the apex rework..

[spice nebula]

Cool, thanks man. I do hope Bear stays meta-relevant no matter what. Much more interesting tank than DH every season with a warrior sprinkled in.

[vagrant ocean]

thrash is not gonna get nerfed

[hazy mural]

yep... thats my stance too tbh... I wanna play bear and will do so as long as it's strong enough to not cause headaches

but I have 3 tanks I dont mind playing in total so if it goes badly, brew or pala better be good

[forest flume]

That's completely false, but I guess you're a fotm reroller

[vagrant ocean]

that bears threat isnt great?

[forest flume]

Threat was fine if you had a brain even before the buffs

[vagrant ocean]

have you ever played with a ret? or enhance? or a dev dh?

[spice nebula]

I have always rotated between DK for CE raiding & a DH/Pala for m+. But I much prefer Bear. It’s nice to have a class that can do both effectively without headaches or groups bitching about the Meta above 15-17.

[vagrant ocean]

lmao

[hazy mural]

nahhhhh, it wasnt

[spice nebula]

Bear just seems much more stable and a fun way to play.

[hazy mural]

threat was why I left bear

[forest flume]

200% buff was dumb, the current one (125) is still dumb

[hazy mural]

to get good threat, u had to pray ur dps were not dumbfucks, and u had to also plan way more than u should ever have to for a tank to keep threat

[forest flume]

What I'm saying is they can tune the value so that EC can still work without a 2 button build being the go-to

[hazy mural]

compared to a spec like brew where u press a button and u have threat and no planning needed

[spice nebula]

Pretty sure most high key streamers specifically said Bears issue was threat. Yoda, Awoo & all.

[vagrant ocean]

master of harmony threat was also not great but before that yeah brews threat was amazing

[hazy mural]

dont think they can this quickly

they gonna cook for .1 and probs its gonna go tits up too

[vagrant ocean]

to add in mangle or raze?

[forest flume]

wowhead yapped about it, not that people never had issue with it, but if you played well you could counter agro issues - thrash buff was a good idea except they over did it

[hazy mural]

it was good! moh is so much fun

[vagrant ocean]

theres nothing you can do if a dev blows star while gathering a pull

[hazy mural]

no cds really, just pew pew

[vagrant ocean]

whats ur idea of countering that?

im curious

[spice nebula]

Swipe should either have a higher threat multiplier so it’s an effective gathering tool without replacing Thrash DPS wise - or they should make Thrash in line with shit like Thunder Clap.

[forest flume]

The core rotational buttons being either equal or lower damage than the current 2-button is stupid as fuck

[hazy mural]

might hate it but I have a feeling they might give up and keep TWW style

[forest flume]

Pressing buttons? I didn,t have issues with the dotc/apex build, there were people doing 20-21s as bear without issues before the buff

[hazy mural]

and make the apex rotate around thrash or something

[trim plaza]

Then there is no shot they dont bring ToI back, for how much we spam IF again

[hazy mural]

maybe remove lunation cdr too

[hazy mural]

we already are

[forest flume]

Removing lunation would be a first step

or reworking it, rather

[hazy mural]

just saying they might give up on the raze headache

[trim plaza]

I think they will give flat cdr to lunation

[vagrant ocean]

thats just false everyone complained about aggro?

[forest flume]

who's everyone?

[vagrant ocean]

i guess youve never watched awoo

[forest flume]

why were people able to do 20-21s as bear when those were the top keys, before buffs

^^^

[vagrant ocean]

it was literally only squish

[hazy mural]

the avergae ppl complained

[forest flume]

It wasn't

[trim plaza]

Tbh trash did 0 dmg, but buffing it to moon was bad as f

[hazy mural]

I included xD

[vagrant ocean]

squish was the only person pushing brew keys

and his team

[unborn dock]

Why is it a headache ? I actually prefer spending rage for something offensive, I don't want to get back to the ironfur spam days

[hazy mural]

even went to this build a bit then decided it wasnt worth the feeling of bad damage

[vagrant ocean]

20s can be done on any tank

[trim plaza]

Brother, gnomerender was higher than squish XD

[forest flume]

gnomerender/squish were playing bears in the top key levels before buffs, everyone else was playing fotm because thats what they do

because you sucked at it didn't mean it couldn,t be done

[hazy mural]

they have to give bear snap aggro, but they cant make thrash op... almost impossible to fix that atm unless they mess with threat modifiers

[trim plaza]

Trash 125%->75% max, revert/buff raze, maul and ravage->fixed

[forest flume]

I think ravage was overtuned

[hazy mural]

TnC could be the answer, but doubt they bring it back

[trim plaza]

The apex echo was

[forest flume]

ravage with apex*

yeah

[hazy mural]

id say like 95 pct of the community had a problem with bear aggro

[vagrant ocean]

thats eu

[hazy mural]

to the point it was mentioned in the buff to thrash

[unborn dock]

I agree before the thrash buffs, you had to use raze to get some good Aggro on pull

[vagrant ocean]

fotm complainers are just cope

[hazy mural]

if only 5 pct of the bear comminity at the time were good, then we got a problem too

[trim plaza]

Doesnt mean squish was the only one

[vagrant ocean]

you cant play the game as an average person without being the meta spec

[forest flume]

alright

[vagrant ocean]

ok but im NA i didnt see any EU keys

[hazy mural]

its a headache I dont envy em for tbh... they gotta decide whether they want ppl to raze or not

[forest flume]

thanks to Discord I can never see this person's messages ever again

[trim plaza]

Playing around ur 2min apex burst was bad as heck but so is this build rn, they just have to somehow balance it or just remove raze playstyle at this point

[hazy mural]

and if they do, they gotta give free raze to get snap aggro

[vagrant ocean]

something like flurry strikes?

auto attacks

idk

[hazy mural]

tooth and claw would be the easiest slam dunk from what I think, but maybe they suprise us

[trim plaza]

1 vote for this

[hazy mural]

bit like the brew apex where u can get charges of free keg smashes

so u can use it properly to get snap aggro

[forest flume]

tfw you have more fun tank rotations in XIV than wow nowadays

[quaint pond]

eh it's not a big deal. simple enough to tweak things in 12.1 so raze/mangle is worth it again

[vagrant ocean]

i miss when ursocs was 60% in DF s2

and they cooked after the wild fire

[quaint pond]

it is unfortunate in that it will drive ppl away from bear

[hazy mural]

but then u have the problem of starting from low rage

[trim plaza]

Laughs in 80% in SL

[hazy mural]

and gotta decide whether u care more about IF or raze asap

[vagrant ocean]

wasnt it like 100%

[quaint pond]

but that's the spec design they've chosen

[vagrant ocean]

in beta

or something

[quaint pond]

low rage is an inherent feature of the design

they went with infinite non-cd spenders

[hazy mural]

before this season, TnC existed

[quaint pond]

it's not a good design for drawing new players

[hazy mural]

and that helped non EC builds in TWW

[quaint pond]

so i can see ppl wanting to change that

[hazy mural]

now its gone and nothing to replace it

[lucid arrow]

sounds like nopex thrash spam is a unique playstyle that brings in new players

[hazy mural]

still same style as old dotc without the tnc helping

[lucid arrow]

maybe it should stay

[hazy mural]

its not unique tho

its been around since forever

[quaint pond]

they can't leave mangle/raze/maul unused anyways

[hazy mural]

the no mangle bit is the new part

[quaint pond]

so they are for sure gonna try to remedy that in 12.1

[hazy mural]

but thats something they likely to fix at least

[lucid arrow]

ye i got a solution

remove mangle raze maul

[hazy mural]

my gut tells me they either staying with thrash style or gonna try and bring TnC back

[quaint pond]

it's a problem with bears. a spammable offensive resource spneder is just a shit design for players to pick up

[hazy mural]

maul never going

thats THE iconic ability

[lucid arrow]

you're right

[quaint pond]

half of apex is maul related anyway i assume they'll just lean into that even more

[lucid arrow]

thrash renamed to maul

maul removed

easy

[rustic kestrel]

idk at some point i think we need to stop treating 30yr old adults like they are 2 year olds who cant fit the square into the square hole

[quaint pond]

and they're way more likely to kneejerk and overkill anything with thrash

[forest flume]

no, we must listen to the fotm rerollers who clearly know better

[rustic kestrel]

people learn when you let them

[hazy mural]

or go full thrash xD

[quaint pond]

fotm reroller are more important than you tho

[lucid arrow]

why don't we just take maul off the gcd again

[hazy mural]

they cqant half arse it for sure

[quaint pond]

if you've been sticking with bear for half a decade you're gonna stay anyways

[hazy mural]

either full thrash or full raze but fix threat

[quaint pond]

they doin't need to care about you

[forest flume]

that's true, my sub is expiring after 20+ years

they'll be fine

[hazy mural]

Raze only been a proper thing in the 2nd half of DF before now, right?

apart from that, thrash been main damage dealer

[quaint pond]

something like that ya but it was always a shitty implementation from the start

[hazy mural]

well, thrash style gameplay at least

[quaint pond]

nah mangle is the 'traditional' damage dealer

[hazy mural]

in aoe?

[quaint pond]

sometimes you jsut sucked in places

[lucid arrow]

wtf is 'traditional'

[hazy mural]

I just remember before they nerfed thrash incarn stuff, u literally only pressed it

[rustic kestrel]

itsz always been tripled from incarn, and thrash hasnt always had 16 arcane modifiers

[lucid arrow]

'traditional' dmg dealer is maul and swipe

[hazy mural]

then u had to press thrash/mangle

only like nelth lair is where I remember pressing raze

[quaint pond]

maul's jsut been problematic since they introduced current iteration back in legion

[hazy mural]

then from then till TWW

[rustic kestrel]

maul wasnt problematic about a month ago

[quaint pond]

sure it was ppl don't want to press it

[rustic kestrel]

then they made it problematic by letting some random cracked out hobo tune thrash

[lucid arrow]

again easy fix maul off the gcd

[trim plaza]

Sounds like a skill issue

[quaint pond]

'skill' doesn't matter ppl play the game and if players don't like a core part of the spec then that's a problem

[hazy mural]

I mean the aggro issue was bound to happen if we use hindsight

they messed up in fixing it, but it is "fixed" atm

[trim plaza]

I have heard more than enough people saying pressing more than 2 buttons takes too much effort for these last several days i can say that

[hazy mural]

now they gotta break the bones again to make em heal properly

[trim plaza]

Might as well check a new game at that point

[hazy mural]

bear war

[rustic kestrel]

well theres plenty of people that hold onto wow that dont actually want to play it

[quaint pond]

idk i think they're more closer to what the developemnt direction is going than pp ltaht want more difficulty

[hazy mural]

both sides are right, but devs gotta do what they want

[lucid arrow]

ye its obvious the development direction rn is making it simple

[quaint pond]

the thrash fotmers i would say are playing the game as being developed

[hazy mural]

or make DOTC the raze spec, and EC the thrash spec

[quaint pond]

and the ppl still hoping for skill epxression are going against the grain

[hazy mural]

and 1 side will still feel screwed over

[rustic kestrel]

the one button rotation exists

we dont need to make specs one button

its already implemented

[hazy mural]

no it dosent

[quaint pond]

obviously you just need to stack haste to overcome the gcd penalty

[lucid arrow]

isnt that why haste is the bis stat?

for one button rotation?

[hazy mural]

when u see some ppl have actual joy with how they playing atm, u kind of get it

and u also get it when ppl want a not 2 button rotation too

only 1 side can win

[lucid arrow]

i like it, i dont feel like having to press more shit actually makes me a better player

[hazy mural]

cause that side will do more damage even if its 1 pct

[hazy mural]

yep... and the real cool ppl just enjoy it and not try to force it down ppls throats, thats what starts shit in the discord too

oh I love this style, therefore yall wrong for not liking it

[red knoll]

Shut up about this man, they already pruned the abilities intended to be pruned, I promise you they didnt intend for maul and mangle to be pruned

[lucid arrow]

wow is a simple game at its core and i want my difficulty to come from dungeon/raid mechanics, movement, using cc/defensives etc properly

not whether my dmg rotation is 1 2 1 2 or 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

[hazy mural]

💯

[rustic kestrel]

wouldyou have fun if it was literally one button then

[quaint pond]

who care what they intended, play what they give you

[lucid arrow]

if my dmg rotation was one button ye

[rustic kestrel]

Would you have fun if you just radiated a damage aura

[quaint pond]

or don't but ppl are just palying the game taht they have

[rustic kestrel]

and pressed no buttons

[hazy mural]

its why I liked FF tanking... problem was the dungeon raid mechanics werent challenging in most content

[rustic kestrel]

where does it end

[forest flume]

I play the game for the class being fun, if the content is amazing but class feels bad to play, the game feels bad to play

[hazy mural]

I actually would

[forest flume]

give me a white box with enemies being triangles idgaf

[hazy mural]

if the content was hard af

theres like a psychological game chart about it

[lucid arrow]

it doesnt end anywhere, it makes no difference to me if my dmg rotation is 1, 1, 1 or 1 2 1 2 or 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 etc etc

[hazy mural]

where the difficulty from a game comes from

[lucid arrow]

in the end its all muscle memory to deal baseline dmg

[rustic kestrel]

so it would be fun for you to radiate damage and healing, stand still, and press barkskin once every 30s?

[forest flume]

why press barkskin, the game should do it for you

[hazy mural]

and if its only 1 sided and dosent keep ur interest then its not very good, if it's the opposite, also not very good cause too hard

[lucid arrow]

no because i stated its more fun to think about moevment/defensives/long cd cc etc.

[quaint pond]

they have tens to hundreds of developers doing other stuff, and only 15 designing all of combat for all specs pvp and pve. you might not like it but that's their priorities for the game that they're making

[hazy mural]

I remember one interview they did where they said they loved anyone complaining about anything

[lucid arrow]

if they made dmg rotations actually sort of stimulating in a way that included active decision making and lots of room for skill expression maybe it'd be fun

[hazy mural]

cause ppl should always advocate for what they like and dislike

and its up to em to take what they see and do what they will with it

[lucid arrow]

but rn its a static priority cast this, then this list at least on every class ive tried

[quaint pond]

ya they could put more resoruces into the combat side with better tuning etc., but they're just not prioritizing that

[hazy mural]

nonono! dont listen to them! only us! we are the important ones, damnit!

[hazy mural]

its very interesting, I theorise that the game is so much better balanced now than in BFA

[lucid arrow]

burst on cd, lust on cd, there's only 1 dmg profile thats viable in m+ which is aoe.. i really gain nothing from dmg rotations other than pressing one additional button in a predetermined order

[hazy mural]

partly cause of content and partly cause of good balancing... whats badly balanced is ppl's brains

they will go meta more veen if its not miles better, cause its much easier to change

before in stuff like BFA, ur not changing class cause ur permanently behind on borrowed power

[quaint pond]

idk if it's better, they've always been good about balancing to their standards by the end of the tier

[hazy mural]

ur good at what u play and if u chose the w rong stuff? well

[quaint pond]

it's certainly more buggy since they lost a lot of devs

[hazy mural]

I mean more like who is doing the highest key vs worst specs

[lucid arrow]

i mean at the end of the day they've made it clear they just want every class to be able to get 3400

and they can do that

they dgaf what happens after that

[quaint pond]

but ya i suspect getting rid of those artificial respec barriers helps a lot on perception of balance

[hazy mural]

I think they should bring that dungeon with shadow of Zul back and keep the tuning of it as it is

kigns rest iirc?

[forest flume]

we're prob getting troll dungeons in 12.1

[lapis shore]

Hello sorry to disturb and maybe elswhere is the answer, but in MM when to use Incarn ? All the time when is up ?

[hazy mural]

as long as it will last the whole buff of it

[forest flume]

de other side / kings rest / zulaman / zulgurub / sunken temple / gundrak / draktharon could be candidates

[hazy mural]

so if u have a pull where the 30 secs of it will be used, will be good

because u want to keep it on cooldown so every rage u use brings it back faster

[lapis shore]

and the 1 min cd ?

[hazy mural]

only time u save it is if u will die without having it up for next pull

[lapis shore]

i always forgot about this one, only use it with incarn

[lucid arrow]

on cd asusming you wont be wasting it to a short pull and that you're not using it when you need it for some scary ass pull coming up

[lucid arrow]

lunar beam? on cd also

[hazy mural]

like the 3rd boss of skyreach, sometimes u have to not use it because it wont be up for the next pull where the birds sharpen their talons ready to kick ur ass

[lucid arrow]

as long as pack isnt just about to die

[lapis shore]

non the last skill point before apex

[lucid arrow]

sundering roar?

also on cd

[hazy mural]

yh, as long as u can make use of the thrash reset

[lapis shore]

yyes sundering

[hazy mural]

#u use thrash and then SR and then thrash again

[lucid arrow]

ye, thrash sundering thrash on cd

[forest flume]

that bleed, and the absorb for nexus, not sure why they haven't been looked at, so many keys bricked right at those spots

[hazy mural]

I dont get scared of a lot of things, that pull scares me... cause I dont have empathetic dps there

[lapis shore]

ok so always on cd, but not on small pul

[hazy mural]

can be on small pull if the buff will last the pull

[lapis shore]

any macro for ironfur ?

[hazy mural]

u can do it but it can lead to problems like not having enough rage for next pull, not being able to battle ress properly etc... personally id try not using it and see how it goes

if u certainly cant play without it, can try it, but its something that u can probably get used to, especially now u dont spam IF as much

[forest flume]

was watching squish yesterday and there was one time he couldn't brez healer in time because no rage, seems like his first instinct was to press thrash again, which spent more rage, and they wiped

[hazy mural]

[forest flume]

riporino

[hazy mural]

I think its a habit for him atp

dont think ive had a point where ive gone I forgot to use IF!

[silk zephyr]

i have 🙁 many times as dotc 🙁

[lapis shore]

thanks

[hazy mural]

its just an automatic press

[silk zephyr]

do i wanna do more dps, or do i wanna live longer >.>

[lucid arrow]

yeah i just press the button without looking at it every so often

[hazy mural]

[lucid arrow]

imagine needing rage to deal dps

[hazy mural]

live longer by doing more dps

[lucid arrow]

[silk zephyr]

i dont play dotc anymore so its not an issue since its macrod with moonfire/thrash now lol

ive all but given up on dps

[hazy mural]

just do the normal things right]

dps comes with learning to do ballsier pulls

[silk zephyr]

yeah, im not super into high M+ though, so its less... required of me?

[hazy mural]

sometimes I have green or blue dps

soemtimes orange

only difference is pulls

[silk zephyr]

yeah, in raid im constant blue parsing only pressing moonfire/thrash, which is ok for me lol

[hazy mural]

yuck

raids

[silk zephyr]

normally end up trying to make healer's lives easier by purple/orange parsing it lol

[forest flume]

the only thing I can agree with you (lately at least)

[hazy mural]

hey, I like raze

[forest flume]

What did you say, boo to raze raids?

[hazy mural]

I just think it has problems without a surefire way of getting threat

[forest flume]

they sound so similar

[silk zephyr]

they should just make raze an aoe like thrash

[hazy mural]

https://tenor.com/view/jjongvillee-maya-winky-gif-13040539965187127777

[hazy mural]

wouldnt fix the problem

[silk zephyr]

oh ik

but i hate frontal cone shit

lol

[forest flume]

Fixing the animation for raze would fix everything imo. Bigger animation would make mobs more scared

[hazy mural]

the problem is that when ur starting a pull from scratch, u dont have enough rage for the basic stuff

I liek the frontal tbh

makes me think a bit more

[forest flume]

its so pathetic lol

oh you mean the mechanic

surely you don't like the small ass animation right?

even SWIPE looks more threatening

[hazy mural]

I prefer good sounds tbh

like ravage

Im kinda blind so I dont see animations well unless they are like FOE

[rustic kestrel]

this never happens

you're lying

ive been told this just doesnt happen

[forest flume]

i almost clipped it yesterday and posted here

but that's harder than 2 buttons

[rustic kestrel]

top players have every global planned out every key

[forest flume]

speaking of, I should delete bear.oxez.net, thats too complicated to maintain,

[trim plaza]

XD

[prisma spear]

Any Bears in here looking for a guild kek :>

[forest flume]

I'm fine with my current one, its called "Vidanges" (which is french for Trashcans)

I fit right in

[prisma spear]

Pog

[daring nymph]

i mean tho real talk

accidents happen

these people are still human and still make mistakes

[rustic kestrel]

nothings wrong with mistakes

[daring nymph]

thats why we shouldnt follow people as giant monoliths that cant do no wrong

[rustic kestrel]

Whats wrong is the people acting like macroing ironfur does no harm, while it actively harms them

Instead of just saying the truth

"im lazy"

[forest flume]

i dont like this timeline

[hazy mural]

I dont like this im lazy thing, I think it's stupid and tries to box ppl in... everyone has their own struggles and its not right to just say they are lazy

[north wigeon]

are we suppose to prioritize trash or Lunar Beam if both are off cd?

[hazy mural]

personaly, id go LB cause thrash can then proc FC and bring LB down more

but best thing to do is try not to get in a position where both off cd as much as possible

[north wigeon]

happens quite often in keys

ty

[hazy mural]

it may look like it but sometimes but u can work to limit it happening a lot so that u press LB when thrash is on cd

[hazy mural]

❤️

[karmic night]

#showtooltip Regrowth
/run if InCombatLockdown() then SetCVar("autounshift", 0) end
/use [@mouseover,help,nodead][help][@targettarget,help,nodead][@player]Regrowth
/console autounshift 1

is this macro still viable for when you have that talent ? like to not accidently press regrowth when it didnt proc

[zenith bronze]

Does Star Cascade require the Starsurge talent to be learned?

I don't think it does but I'm not sure

[sharp gale]

iirc all the regrowth macros got killed some expansions ago

you can play dream guide to auto regrowth ppl when they get low instead i guess

[karmic night]

ah ok

blizz detected fun probly

[rustic kestrel]

No

[zenith bronze]

Thanks!

[wild bloom]

is mastery providing more defensive capacity than versatility

[quaint pond]

up a certain point ya

with mark + 1 IF it's ~2800 rating when vers takes over

[wild bloom]

wdym 2800 rating

[quaint pond]

w/e that mastery with IF talent is i always forget the name

if you have combined vers + mastery rating higher than that, it's better to have it all as vers

if you're below, it's better to have it al las mastery

this is ignoring the dps tho, for dps your best loadout will usually split earlier

[wild bloom]

im sorry but how am i supposed to get to 2800 anyway

[quaint pond]

i don't think you can at current tier

[wild bloom]

so youre basically saying mastery is better as a stat than vers in current condition

[quaint pond]

possible later in the xpac

ya for passive defensive. but the difference is minor so you may get better optimization by going with the higher dps

[wild bloom]

and vers is better in that regard way earlier

is your point

[little karma]

does heart of the wild make u insanely squishy when u swap to cat form or what

[quaint pond]

no you have the persistence talent

[little karma]

cuz i thought there was that one talent that prevented being squishy instantly

but i pressed hotw once in my acad 17 and got one tapped

[wild bloom]

i pressed hotw once in a big pull and never pressed it again

i know i should

but hell no

[quaint pond]

yeah it'll suffice on bosses or smaller pulls but doing when tons of mobs are wailing on you prolly not

[olive compass]

Broskis and brotatos

I come to you in my time of need

I have rejoined a hof guild after a 2year hiatus and am tanking for the first time

[wild bloom]

rip

[olive compass]

My first raid is wednesday and i've not done anything other than first 4/9m, how the fuck do i prep for the last bosses

[wild bloom]

u study

[hazy mural]

bark op

depends on the nature of the pull too

like if its the defenders in NPX with loads of em? might think twice

apart from ppl like em, LB into bark or SI is op for it

[vapid dock]

cat HOTW is good prio dam, no shame in ripping it at end of pull on highest health target.

assuming you still get full value, of course

[hazy mural]

BUT PAD!

[trim plaza]

just go blindly, works everytime

[wary hare]

are bears actually stacking mastery instead of haste vers?\

[vague sage]

Are they? No. Should they be? Maybe. You still want haste though

[still locust]

Haste is usually a bit better than the other stats, but all 4 stats are good

A lot of bears might be playing the other druid specs, they all like mastery (AFAIK)

So it's to simplify gearing

[wild bloom]

why are my food buff expiring as soon as i quit any dungeon

i dont get it

[jovial mauve]

Tbh i prefer to go haste-versa and get less dmg when gathering packs

[full hedge]

do we even use mangle in m+ or just spam moonfire thrash?

[jovial mauve]

For dmg prob moonfire is better as filler

But mangle reduces incarn cd and make u build more ironfur

Also moonfire heals u a bit

Moonfire reduces LB cd

U can mangle if low target count to get more rage

[full hedge]

Just asking cuz was watching kira's guide on bear and he was like rotation is just thrash moonfire, moonfire, moonfire, thrash. etc. didn't even mention mangle. But I see on wowhead and icy-veins they put mangle in the rotation

[hazy mural]

u spam mf to reduce LB cd quicker, u use mangle when u need rage asap

[trim plaza]

spamming moonfire nets more dmg cause lunar beam uptime

[hazy mural]

if u wanna play mangle a lot more, u need to specifically pick sotf and mn

[quaint pond]

wowhead/IV are pretty out of date for bears atm

[full hedge]

nah I don't even wanna touch mangle. just wondering if i needed it at all. like for ST or something

[hazy mural]

when u need rage, sure, but apart from that, can ignore it

[jovial mauve]

Prio dmg still higher with mf?

[trim plaza]

without mangle boosters, yes

also mangle is way stronger in DotC than EC

and its not because moonfire prio, its because LB does more dmg into maint arget

[hazy mural]

yep, as long as u prio prio guy and u get the LBs to go off on em too

[trim plaza]

and u keep high uptime in it

[jovial mauve]

But as a EC nopex can we target a caster to quick kick with no macro or we should target skull? As brew i always target skull but this build prio is that low.. idk if its worth it to target skull just for aa and some moonfire

[hazy mural]

I mean even without exact prio, u still do a decent amount of damage to the main target

just relatively less than pure apex style prio

[jovial mauve]

Does LB matters who target?

[trim plaza]

it does more dmg to main target, so try to target it into prio mob

[jovial mauve]

Ok

[hazy mural]

yeah... LB is weird now

it has a dot on main target and then cleaves to 5 other targets

if u check ur LB dps bit, the uptime will look lower than the buff/cpm version of the uptime

cause ur main target dies whilst LB uptime still up sometimes

[quaint pond]

well the buff also just lasts longer

you get 8.5s for w/e reason

the beam & dot only lasts for 8

[hazy mural]

ahhh... so it dosent get increased with EC?

[quaint pond]

nah but EC gives you free 7 mastery for LB that dotc doesn't get

[hazy mural]

sounds like a forgetful dev to me xD

[quaint pond]

completely undocumented

on top of the 14.5 that gets rounded up to 15 from that one hero talent

just an extra free 7.5% AP from LB jsut for being EC

[hazy mural]

guess can attribute some of that uptime discrepency to that...

[quaint pond]

maybe played some small part into their tuning mess. w/e spreadsheet they use prolly assume things work as they intended and that LB doesnt' get all these free bonuses

[hazy mural]

thats for the interns to work out

[quaint pond]

nah don't do that minimizing stuff as 'just interns' this is the best of the best that blizz can put out for you $15

[hazy mural]

im joking cause thats what the higher ups would probably think

just leave it to interns and do ur job kinda thing when they just need more devs to be able to have more time to go through things properly

[quaint pond]

i think managment prolly thinks they are going thru things properly

don't need to invest more there's no problem

[hazy mural]

surely they have told em they need more ppl...

but I guess even if they have, it wont matter till sales goes down because of this problem

[quaint pond]

yeah and if anything games' prolly more popular than past few years

everything's simpler/smoother

[hazy mural]

I still think of Preach's dice video when it comes to world content

all those random rolls, add in tons of players doing random rolls

[sonic tundra]

Is there a macro to only be able to cast regrowth with cenarius proc to avoid accidental clicks and getting out of bear form

[green kayak]

No, without locking your ability to shift in combat at all

[sonic tundra]

Damn. Ok thank you

[jovial mauve]

U should track the regrowth proc and only use it if u see the proc up

Take in mind that FR consume one proc stack

Btw i use regrowth to switch humanform when need wildcharge for skips

[rare nest]

we dont have a way to get people out of plunge grip right? 3 ppl in a resil 20 pos just died to it, i got whispered "wake up bro" and then removed

[vague sage]

Nope. What was team comp?

[rare nest]

demo, unhdk. aug, rsham

the aug rescued 1 time

and is the one that whispered me, i think im getting trolled

[vague sage]

Hopefully he was not the whisperer

Oh

[rare nest]

yes lmao

[jovial mauve]

If targets evoker cant be removed with that comp

[rare nest]

ok awesome, thanks guys

[ancient mountain]

hey guys when do you tank swap on vael/ezzorak (dragons) mythic?

[jovial mauve]

2 sec after gloom when ezzorak does the tankhit

[hazy mural]

ppl in resil keys usually play worse and are more stupid

a normal brain would realise ppl cant remove the root so we better attack that shield

[viral niche]

would you consider averaging ~50% of the dps' damage an ok amount or should I be much closer? I know this probably depends on dungeons and pulls but wondering ifthere's a general rule of thumb

in m+*

[hazy mural]

best thing id look at is the time u finished in and if u had a lot of unforced deaths due to routing etc

damage gets better if u got the basics down and u make good routing

[ivory fox]

what are u guys using to track your debuffs in dungeon, what add on?

[rotund maple]

hey guys someone told me there's a way to play nopex without completely fucking your single-target

what's the tech

[craggy ridge]

Press hotw as cat

[sweet gorge]

[tulip juniper]

If thrash does arcane damage, why do we take Circle of the Wind instead of Circle of the heavens in the class tree?

[tribal zinc]

Because blizzard can't write tooltips and Wind buffs thrash

[sour oracle]

hey guys whats the diffrerence or in which situations to choose between Cenarius or Guide

[versed jacinth]

The first pull in Nexus any tips on the absorb? Feel like its trucking now in 18s and 19s

[rotund maple]

Farol Druid here. I did it baers be proud of me.

[rustic kestrel]

Dream guide offheals by itself, important or not, and doesnt work with reinvigoration properly

DoC works with reinvig, but offhealing is a global+ your own awareness

[vapid forum]

I used all my bonus rolls on a fresh Druid.. How did I make out?

Time to farm crests

God damn

[wild bloom]

who almost timed his first 18 and didnt

thats me baby

[sour oracle]

is there a kind of soft cap for haste or just go all in with it? raidbots recommends me emberfeather with crit plume but idk it feels weird for some reason

[sour oracle]

thank you !

[quaint pond]

ppl like haste for vibes, there's no cap since it's not a measured thing

you can vibe along or go with the dps sim

[sterile dove]

hey all, does anyone have advice to show thrash cd correctly during incarn when using arcui?

sorry if this gets asked a lot, a search of the pins and the search bar hasnt returned anything

[stiff phoenix]

random q, what level do you accept the delve quests for 90 is it 88?

[chrome gulch]

Why do you feel like thrash cd is not showing correctly?

[storm fiber]

Are there any weird Talent Interactions or Something which are able to aggro in a Dungeon without beeing in Range?

Happened a few Times before. Yesterday 2 Times in a row. Im targeting a Mob from next Pack to place a Mark. Not in Range of growl, MF or whatever. Mob and the whole Pack is running with 100% HP to me, Just by targeting and setting a Mark with opie

[olive hare]

Hm the star surge from star cascade is launched at the current target isnt it? Not at home so cant check sadly

[storm fiber]

Im more than 40y away, and the Mobs still hast 100% HP when aggroing. And in the logs there are Zero damage Events before they engage

[quaint pond]

could be waking nightmare

it'll tag your target when it procs

[frigid coral]

I guess people never like my routes

I got kicked for 2nd boss room route apparently. They said I'm supposed to do 2 packs + 5sec for 3rd pack?? I do 1 +5sec for 2nd... okayyy

Is that a thing in keys over 19?

[storm fiber]

Damn. Good Call, I will Check it later.
That would be a reason for me to Spec Out of it tbh

[quaint pond]

could be something else too, but ppl seem to most report that

sad it does a lot of damage but bugs can make it unusable

[frigid coral]

Yes absolutely. I tested it and you can just pull anything nowadays with standard build. Just enter skyreach and attack the mobs in front. Then target the mobs on the platform and just thrash in front of you again without actually attacking those mobs. They start running to you in no-time

That combined with HORRIBLE tab targetting system that they messed up

I once messed up a key tab targetting just below last boss of MT. Then pulled the whole pack downstairs while I was upstairs all the way

[storm fiber]

Like Bluetooth Keg from Monk Tierset

[frigid coral]

I think monk have this too but there it's expected

Yes exactly

[frigid coral]

Does anyone know if it's standard to pull 2 packs then +1 in keys over 19 in skyreach? I don't really get why I got kicked over doing 1+1 instead of 2+1

I don't think I should start doing 2+1, just want to make sure

[rustic kestrel]

you gotta explain what you mean by 1+1 and 2+1

screenshot maybe

[frigid coral]

Well that you pull 1 construct and wait 5sec then pull the other

[forest flume]

i pull first pack wait for beam and pull the rest, healer adjusts

[frigid coral]

2nd boss room

[forest flume]

worked in 21 earlier

[frigid coral]

The rest as in 2 others?

1+2?

[rustic kestrel]

You pull first one, when beam starts pull 2nd, when 2nd beam starts pull 3rd

[forest flume]

^ yeah thats what i do

[frigid coral]

in a 21 is fine?

Okay

[forest flume]

so you have the entire room pulled in one pull

you aren't going to take any damage as tank

[frigid coral]

Nah I know I'll be fine

But I'd imagine pugs die

[forest flume]

people might need to use defensive if they get targeted often but that's how most runs I ve seen pull that room

[rustic kestrel]

you get to a point where you have to for time

[frigid coral]

I checked vods where they only did 1+1 then wait till 1st one to die and then pull 3rd but

[forest flume]

skyreach timer is kinda tight I find

[frigid coral]

I guess I do 1+1+1

[south glen]

Looking for improvement, not sure what I'm getting wrong here, but I presume my dps can be higher.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fgjvM872Q3TDNRFw?fight=last

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fgjvM872Q3TDNRFw?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=4

[forest flume]

the key lasted 18 minutes, you casted incarn 3 times

its probably the best tank cd in the entire game, you want to send it on cd as much as you can

that prob won't help your damage with the build you're palying, but you should try to not overcap so much rage, 1.3k is a lot of lost rage

[south glen]

Would you recommend a differet build?

[forest flume]

And if you're playing no-apex build, you prob do not want to cast Maul as much as you did. The point of the build is to use thrash/moonfire as much as you can to reduce lunar beam CDR

[south glen]

gotcha

[forest flume]

Nah the build you're playing is fine, its the easy build but its being played at the very top level

[storm fiber]

You casted more Maul than Thrash. Its the biggest Problem

[forest flume]

using incarnation more often (means thrash 50% cooldown reduction) and spam thrash/moonfire/lunar beam more, you'll see fast improvement

[south glen]

Thank you, My mauls were on bosses (allegedly) do I need to change that strategy on bosses to thrash, mf,lunar?

[vague sage]

Dont press this

Fake button

[south glen]

lol

kk

[frigid coral]

Just replace swipe button with moonfire so your muscle memory doesnt get too messed up

Same with mangle and maul if you play the meta build

(I hate this)

[forest flume]

apparently people like this, sadly

[vague sage]

Mangle is a contentious one, but i think if you just press thrash on cd, your dps will almost double

[south glen]

appreciate it my fellow druids

Whats the ideal dps for a bear in a 10 key?

[frigid coral]

I don't know, the affix is quite big

[forest flume]

Not related to dps, but look at this: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fgjvM872Q3TDNRFw?fight=last&type=damage-taken&ability=1&source=4&sourcebuffs=-192081

This is all the melee hits you took without ironfur up

In +10 this might work at your ilvl, but eventually as you go up you will get annihilated

[frigid coral]

And varies wildly per week. Also depends on the route cause in lower keys you could do crazy large pulls or do small that die fast and it gets messy with what you can expect dmg wise

[forest flume]

and this goes hand-in-hand with all the rage that was wasted at the cap, spam it on ironfur

[south glen]

Thanks again

[frigid coral]

When you go higher it's generally to be expected to do like 105-140k ish depending on dungeon. Can be more or a bitt less but the majority should land in that range I'd say

[south glen]

Is there an iron fur tracker I can see better?

[forest flume]

cdm works fine but if you want more options: https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/advanced-ironfur-tracker

[frigid coral]

#1463934154935894128 message

I do not use one myself but I don't play with maul/raze

So it don't really matter to see how many you have. It'll be high regardless

[forest flume]

Realistically playing the non-apex build you don't really need to track IF since almost all your rage goes into ironfur

can turn brain off and dump all into it

[frigid coral]

You're mindlessly spamming IF with the meta build yeah. You kinda start dozing it a bit when you think you need a frenzied regen just so you dont just perma dump it

[vague sage]

Idk what to tell new players in this situation. If you teach them to play no apex now, you are just teaching them bad habits. But it will be correct for a few months

[south glen]

I was playing apex at first then swapped, I think I like apex build better

[forest flume]

who knows, maybe they're just going to remove our cool spells and tell us that's how we should play now

[vague sage]

It had its problems, but was more involved for sure

[forest flume]

Yeah the apex build is really fun (dotc), just unfortunate that with current tuning, it's not really rewarding to play it versus the no-apex one

[vague sage]

Honestly, i dont really mind having a brain off spec either 🤷‍♂️

[forest flume]

I just do my high keys in the brain dead build, so people in my group don't question my choices, and then I go do lower keys by myself and hve my own fun with dotc/apex

sad times

[south glen]

Thanks again, g'night

[chrome gulch]

Bluetooth keg is sending me

[rustic kestrel]

god what a beautiful thumbnail

[split finch]

Hello everyone! I am new to guardian druid (just done levelling), I have 80 myth crests, do you mind telling me what the first craft should be? I understand it would be weapon?

[arctic zenith]

Blizzard so funny. Banned WAs but thats ok... literally the same like WA. Such a clown company

[arctic zenith]

Weapon with sec stat proc

[lucid arrow]

use voidcore rerolls first before crafting

if you get a myth weapon better than the crafted

[tight compass]

Go bonus roll through the entire windrunner spire loot table first, you get a weapon, some set pieces, and 2 good trinkets. Spend your myth crests on these items first

[raw igloo]

is there something that makes you pull through the walls? I feel like sometimes I pull things from the other side of the wall, like books on MT and groundskeeper on WS

[fresh wolf]

Hi, got druid to 90. I have questions:

1. Is the rotation just Lunar Beam (sorry if not right name - the thing on 60-second CD) > Thrash > Mangle > Moonfire on CD while dumping excess rage into Iron fur and rotating between Ironbark and Survival Instincts for defensives and sending Incarn on CD? That's it?

2. Is there any point while tanking a M+ or raid or whatever when you're not OT that it is safe to cast Rake to push kitty, cast HotW, and then Thrash to get back to bear? If so, do we then also cast HotW on CD or wait to line it up with Incarn?

Thank you very much.

[split finch]

Ok got it!

Thank you all ❤️

[odd cave]

waking nightmare can do it theoretically

[arctic zenith]

Pressing mangle is a dps loose
I dont even ve it on my bars

[split finch]

I'm getting so desperate with the mage tower XD

[unborn dock]

Pretty much, try to keep SI for big hits or when you are in a big pack without bark skin or Incarn.

[unborn dock]

It's mangle not thrash to swap into bear form, thrash just cast a cat thrash that is very bad.

[unborn dock]

HotW is kind of tricky, you shouldn't use it during Incarn, more outside. I mostly use it on bosses. On big packs you shouldn't shift into cat form, only small packs and with bark skin running.

[unborn dock]

Horrible advice, your only input to his message is don't press mangle? 😮‍💨 At least correct the essentials he got wrong before writing a message.

[half surge]

mangle is always good, rage is good

rage = more incarns

incarn = immortality basically

lunar beam is great too but... i would prefer more incarn pulls to feel safer

[twilit hollow]

guys..the little wyrms in AA, that lunge at you..if you stand under them, do they lunge anyway?

[unborn dock]

Idk look the spell up on MDT, maybe there is a minimum range for their spell? I know I got lunged at on my rogue while beeing pretty close

[arctic zenith]

But mangle is a dps loose
Pressing moonfire is always better
Thats a fact

[merry quest]

It’s a small dps loss in aoe - that’s it

[half surge]

dead man deals no damage

[arctic zenith]

More moonfires means more luna beams, more luna beams mean more rage; dmg, mastery and health

[merry quest]

Lunar beam doesn’t give rage

[half surge]

wait.. how the heck lunar beams give rage

u are wrong

[arctic zenith]

It does? Read tooltip buddy. 30rage

[half surge]

anyway

[unborn dock]

I mean the biggest issue I have here with you is that you only write "mangle DPS loss" while he clearly made 3-4 errors that needed correcting instead of your questionable input

[half surge]

advicing to not press mangle is wrong... very wrong

[arctic zenith]

Its literally in the tooltip?

[half surge]

i dont see any rage myself

maybe im blind

and hes not

[merry quest]

But for the sake of argument, let’s say it does

That’s 30 rage every 20-30 seconds