guardian

[red knoll]

Unless its multi target

Then mangle is worth doing on low target

Mangle also has a cd so

[hazy mural]

also interesting cause Incarn uptime seems almost identical with mangle spammers vs mf spammers too

likely since u have to use it at certain points eitherway

[brave cedar]

you mean mf-trash in st and mangle in low count aoe or do i understand it wrong

[red knoll]

You can weave between thrash-mf-mangle if you need to

[fallen robin]

This was the traditional rotation (weaving in Raze/Maul/Ravage as resources allow) before the NoApex build became the fotm.

[red knoll]

Incarn changes how mangle works

It cleaves in incarn

[silk zephyr]

LB also double dips in giving you more tankiness

[fallen robin]

Traditionally, you would never MF during Incarn unless there was a range issue with Thrash/Mangle.

[red knoll]

Nothing compares to incarn for tankiness

Nothing can compare

[olive hare]

Yeah noticed that as well when playing around with the different builds. As long as you cant reliably push the incarn cd to 90 sec the savings cant really be translated into a better dungeon pacing.

[red knoll]

You have infinite fregen

[silk zephyr]

you get nearly as much hp in lunar beam as you do incarn

[red knoll]

Nothing tops that

[silk zephyr]

yeah

plus healing received

[brave cedar]

but if i should not mf and not mangle in st during incarn, what do i do then? trash cannot be cast without cd, right? thats a long time ago, or did i miss it

[red knoll]

You can mf

[hazy mural]

u alternate thrash with an mf

[red knoll]

If thrash is on cd

You should moonfire just like

[brave cedar]

i see,, thats what i meant, just did not understand it correctly

[fallen robin]

For push keys this is very reliable, for weekly keys you can get it lower and send on CD at a slightly better cadence if you don't care about your group CDs

[brave cedar]

ty again

[red knoll]

Also weave in some rage gen if you need incarn to come off cd sooner

[silk zephyr]

hes saying skill order is Thrash -> Mangle -> Moonfire i believe

[red knoll]

It depends

[silk zephyr]

priority wise

[red knoll]

If you dont need

[hazy mural]

its a very weird build and wont last past the end of this patch but atm u basically thrash on cd, mf when thrash is on cd and make sure u use LB anytime u can to its full extent

[red knoll]

Incarn soon

[hazy mural]

thats pretty much the rotation

[red knoll]

You can just go for lbs

But if you do need incarn for a pack coming up

You should mangle

[hazy mural]

in incarn its thrash, mf, thrash, mf... outside incarn its likely thrash, x3 mf, thrash x3 mf...

[red knoll]

Also i believe in 3 target it is a dps gain over mf to mangle in incarn

Not sure if that requires sotf or not

[fallen robin]

The difference in Incarn CD that you can generate by prioritizing Mangle for 30s is almost insignificant.

(outside of Incarn)

[shut jasper]

mangle is only ever a gain (at any count) with sotf

[red knoll]

Yes but the rage enables incarn so you should still press it when you need it

[shut jasper]

honestly rage cdr in general is peanuts compared to lunation

[red knoll]

The answer of whether you should moonfire or mangle is nuanced

[fallen robin]

On average you're getting to a 2min Incarn. This doesn't change significantly whether you Mangle or not.

[brave cedar]

you mean some do trash and fill with mf in ST and aoe as well? damn

[hazy mural]

yes

[fallen robin]

Yeah it's really lame but it works.

[hazy mural]

bear atm dosent have st or aoe specifics

[red knoll]

I mean you ahould always be moonfiring, but dont neglect your rage either

[fallen robin]

Playing it is tedious

[hazy mural]

its same either way

[shut jasper]

singular mangle is about half a second worth of incarn cdr

[olive hare]

Some is an understatement. Its hard to find good parses going heavy on mangles

[red knoll]

You dont need to mangle in large target count

Ever

Thats true even in dotc

[vagrant kestrel]

ok thank you I mean I am still learning but I don't wanna be bad obv

[red knoll]

So on a 5 minute boss you weave it in and you get 10-15 seconds

Even if youre not pressing it often

Because you shouldn't moonfire when there's 2 seconds or less on lb anyways

[vagrant kestrel]

are there any like good go to videos to be a more efficient bear tank cause I watched the Awoo video when the no apex build came out and thats basically got me to doing 16s obv prob more stuff I can do to be more survivable I think I am missing out on

[shut jasper]

in theory you'd skip the moonfire if it's less than gcd left on the cd

no one's gonna be doing that

[red knoll]

I mean thats a good time to mangle

If thrash is still on cd

[silk zephyr]

anyone see that holy paladin damage taken on that log? lol

[shut jasper]

or rather if the cd is shorter than the cd on thrash + 1 gcd

[red knoll]

Think im just gonna go back to dotc anyways

Even with st talents its boring

As ec

[olive hare]

From all the avaiable videos to the current playstyle of bear in M+ Awoo's is clearly the best imho, covers some quality explanations and covers the rotational minmaxing pretty well.

[red knoll]

And griefs the timer more

Do less overall but do more damage where it matters

As dotc

I could also try apex ec

With raze

@grand plinth have you tried apex ec in m+ yet

Does it have the same prio damage after the ravage nerf

[grand plinth]

I have not

Probably overall not worth

[red knoll]

Over dotc?

I really think dotc is better for most comps timer wise

[grand plinth]

Over nopex

[red knoll]

If you can live

[grand plinth]

If you wanna be ec

[red knoll]

I dont wanna be ec was just wondering

If it would be better prio damage than dotc

[grand plinth]

Yeah I've been flipping back and forth

Dotc has some aggro issues with certain specs

[red knoll]

I dont like 5 min bosses

Yeah it always has

[grand plinth]

Like ele sham

[red knoll]

I have dreadscale

Which can help

[grand plinth]

So if I'm in a dungeon where we need wyrmstone and therefore can't play timeless i will play EC

[red knoll]

What dungeons require wyrmstone

[grand plinth]

Skyreach and POS

Skyreach for last boss and POS for the skip

[calm ruin]

Anyone got something to use a an Incarn reminder before you start a key? Or shall I just be better to remember?

[hazy mural]

get excited to press it

it means 20 secs of extra incarn!

[red knoll]

I mean the only dungeons that really matters on is seat and pit

I guess Sr

But yeah just remember to press it

[calm ruin]

Well then I'll just get better to remember

[shut jasper]

you can honestly make some use of it on basically anything that's not algethar

[red knoll]

Its kinda meh in mt and wrs

[olive hare]

Tbh the only dungeon were nopex precarn lacks value is AA, obviously. All the other dungeons either appreciate 20 extra seconds of carn or in case of dungeons like MT, let you save the incarn cd for the next pull.

[red knoll]

Like you might get 4 useful seconds on it

Its worth pressing but

Not gunna make or break the key

[hazy mural]

and AA is the dungeon id want 50 sec incarn the most

[shut jasper]

yup

[olive hare]

Gotta play apex to enjoy precarn in AA

[hazy mural]

https://tenor.com/view/gohine-hohino-no-hohineee-gohineee-gif-17792172174678204487

[red knoll]

Youre already down to like 15 seconds when you start pulling in wrs

[hazy mural]

its nice not to be scared witless by those bleeds

[red knoll]

By the time its gathered you might have 8 or so i suppose

MT you have it but

For why lol

[olive hare]

Precarn still allows to weave in thrash every other global while assembling WRS 1st pull, which means dps can start rolling and help assemble the pull faster. Still a good precarn use.

[silk zephyr]

there is zero downside to using it

[red knoll]

Correct

[hazy mural]

yh, and the door can be already open if u do the trick right before the start of the dungeon

• tiger dash

[red knoll]

My point is in those dungeons its not gonna affect the timer if you forget

[shut jasper]

what's the trick?

[olive hare]

And MT -> 1st pull is whatever, the 2nd one is the spicy one from a healer pov, precarn is enough to get 1st pull done.

[hazy mural]

if u start the rp of opening the door just before starting key, it carries over in the key

[shut jasper]

nice

[hazy mural]

I leave it to le aug to do it xD

since he does the breath thing anyways

[normal spear]

hey, for heart of the wild how are we using it in high keys

i see the suggested build on archon doesn't have moonkin form, are we just using it catform?

[unborn dock]

Cat form for st DPS, moonkin can help on some djs to gather like AA, I even use it for heals on for example emberwing to help healer even though it's frowned upon, but idc

[winged horizon]

for Skyreach adept kiting I'm using knock/vortex but does Incap Roar interrupt them long enough prevent stack application? I would assume no

I"m used to Brew who has infinite ways to remove these but it's pretty annoying on Guardian I feel

[unborn dock]

Incap roar and take a step back and you are good, just don't stay melee

[normal spear]

when would you safely catform heart of the wild?

liek when you know the boss isn't going to melee?

[winged horizon]

with Persistence you're fine

I can do it in a pack in a +20

IF

[normal spear]

persistence?

[unborn dock]

I mean if you have bearskin you are Gucci, maybe don't use it on big Tankbuster, otherwise you are good

[winged horizon]

I hit like Bark/SI, Fluid Form -> Rake, HotW, Mangle back to bearform

you don't keep Ironfur stacks in EC when you swap out

so you need to cover with other stuff

[unborn dock]

Do you even keep the ironfur bonus while leaving bearform?

[winged horizon]

no

only in DotC you would

so it's much more dangerous as EC

[normal spear]

what is EC

[winged horizon]

Elune's Chosen

[normal spear]

im sorry what is that

[winged horizon]

The Hero Talent

[unborn dock]

Hero talent

[normal spear]

can you show me, i'm having trouble finding it

i see that its a hero spec, but are you referring to a talent

[chrome gulch]

I would probably not worry about ever pressing HotW until you know when it is dangerous and when it's not

You are just asking to die if you blindly follow what others are doing without understanding

[halcyon jackal]

hi, is there any addon that rings a noise when a boss tank burster is about to happen ?

[unkempt drift]

hey guys quick q

any point in pushing with this gear (esp the scuffed trinkets)?

idk if they're important for bear, I've been a dps main this expac and I wonder if i need more gear to get resi 20 on this alt

current stats:

[fallen robin]

Looks fine. Trinket selection is personal. Your group/route/defensive rotations will do more for you than more gear at that point.

[unkempt drift]

awesome, thanks

[north ingot]

Does thrash get the monk debuff amp even though it's arcane damage?

[unkempt drift]

i havent played bear since legion so no idea what the class behaves like now w/ trinkets

[oblique hound]

can we macro ironfur into moonfire? or is it not recommended to do that for some reason?

[unkempt drift]

dps loss + will fuck up pooling rage between packs

[jovial mauve]

but u gain qol

as EC nopex build u always gonna ironfur every 40 rage on m+

[unkempt drift]

amp phases you're in cat or spamming maul, no?

[jovial mauve]

i never press maul on m+

[hazy mural]

I believe it dosent due to the arcane

[hazy mural]

if u can play without macroing IF, its better not to tbh, it has some pitfalls and theres no point making it easy to get those negatives if ur ok with just pressing IF

[red knoll]

You should only be ironfurring when you need it, not every time you hit 40

[still locust]

#1463934154935894128 message

[oblique hound]

Ahh ty

[noble perch]

Fellow bears, in gathering pulls or chain pulls i loose aggro on dps, do you have some tips and tricks to keep up? I saw moonkin HoW should be solid but never tried

[jovial mauve]

just look at andymeow logs, he never use maul at any dungeon, even the ones with amp dmg phases like AA o seat

[red knoll]

andy isnt the epitome of bear knowledge, theres other ways to play

[jovial mauve]

i mean

if it works its correct

[red knoll]

Brother

Theres more than one way to play the game

[jovial mauve]

83% ironfur uptime on seat 23

[red knoll]

okaY?

you can have that without not pressing maul

[jovial mauve]

i mean, somebody said 83% is pretty low uptime

[red knoll]

Contrary to what yall believe you can have both

it is low

because he doesnt maul

i mean mangle

[jovial mauve]

y like 80-100 mangle casts at every dungeon

[clear atlas]

A huge thing is making sure you’re optimizing to get as many mobs in your Thrashes. Also make sure
that if there is a focus target, you got tabs on it and are ready to taunt it.

[red knoll]

from what ive heard andy never mangles

thats including from himself

[north ingot]

it gets damage amp from Circle of the Wind talent

which is why im wondering

otherwise Circle of heavens would be better obv

[quaint pond]

they utilize entirely different mechanics

the debuffs use old style vanilla code where it applies to damage types, and the talents use new style code where you have to manually input which spells it applies to

[violet holly]

what is the range of brambles aoe?

just found out it was me removing paralysis from the bound voidcallers in a seat I did earlier today

with brambles ticks

and I thought I was far enough

[red knoll]

brambles in keys?

[violet holly]

yep yep

[red knoll]

i guess it is a talent that does damage

[violet holly]

that's what I get for running it amirite

idk I could replace it for reinv

but I dont feel like I need it

maybe in a 17 18

natural resilience may be a better option as well

[vapid forum]

With all the buttons we have from all the forms we have, its kinda wild that we only need these buttons

[violet holly]

swipe lol

[vapid forum]

yeah i guess i could get rid of that one lmao

[violet holly]

if you run ec nopex you can remove it

[vapid forum]

I guess I should get started

[fallen robin]

I think it was Brambles that used to pull packs across the room (beyond 40y) in Grim Batol, but maybe they fixed that?

[quick schooner]

Well, i know that people on pug tend to be morons and stupid and all but im just making sure. Got flamed on today at skyreach 16 for not letting party "Cleaving" mobs and moving away from solar orbs. Is it normal that we kite the mobs after 1st boss and before last guy? I mean those mfs that gives hard hitting fire dot that stacks infinitly. I dont think i did wrong that i was kiting those or healers can somehow outheal 20 stacks of this in 16-18 key range

[formal stream]

Hi, am I supposed to tank some beams during the second boss fight in Skyreach ? I was blamed by a dps (as always) for not knowing the strategy, which resulted in a depleted key. I watched some +16 vod (Yoda) and he wasn't tanking beams.

[quick schooner]

never in my entire life seen tank soaking the beams, i think at some key levels it will oneshot us cause it makes that the tank frontal which is dodagble will always hit you if you soak and stand still

funny that in the same minute we both asked stuff about people being stupid in Skyreach lmfao

[formal stream]

it was a 16 too

[quick schooner]

XD

[formal stream]

idk what happened before the 2nd boss, but during it the war got killed by melee dmg ? maybe it's my fault there

[quick schooner]

Looks like aggro yeah

[formal stream]

The shaman sounded confident, so I thought maybe I was wrong. He was talking about the beams.

[quick schooner]

Either we dont know some hidden pro strat that somehow works to facetank everything no matter the key level or shaman's on shrooms i guess

Still, always 3 dps soaked beams in my every skyreach key, from a +2 to to +16 never seen tank do it when i was in dps or i never did it myself as a tank xD

[formal stream]

same

[quick schooner]

But lets hope someone better will corect our both "people being stupid in dugeons ahh situation" im just 3467 currently and its my main so im not 1000% sure xD

[brazen tinsel]

Both things can be true at the same time

You need to reset stacks but you need to do it in a way where your group can cleave the orb when it's up

[brazen tinsel]

You want to take over a beam after your tank frontals are over

[void magnet]

yea u get a couple ticks after the 2 frontals are hit before the end of the beams

[brazen tinsel]

There is always a gap between the frontal sets where you can easily soak a beam for a bit

[wary hearth]

Well, after the frontal you can take some ticks from the beam to let the dps some brearhing room

But I dont know if it matters, up to 18-19, I didnt do it and people survived

[quick schooner]

Now im more invested in beam question cause its much more helpful lol, Just did 2 +16 reach keys today and both times healers had 0 issues with outhealing that

[void magnet]

yea same the melee dps were playing far enough away i couldnt even take the beam if i watned to

[grand plinth]

Yeah this is how it tends to go

[brazen tinsel]

If they're too far, you can try pinging yourself

If they don't move, well it is what it is

[grand plinth]

Yeah its pretty minor anyways

[void magnet]

[formal stream]

So it's possible, but not necessary ?

[brazen tinsel]

Nothing is "necessary" until extremely high keys but it helps a lot of you take the beam from the weakest dps

[grand plinth]

its helpful but if whoever has already lived like 75% of the way

they're likely gonna make it

[brazen tinsel]

And it's not like it's a difficult thing to do

Why wouldn't you

[grand plinth]

But you should if you can

[formal stream]

👌

[quick schooner]

Damn, after timing all the 16s personally i think that skyreach and maisara will give me the most troubles talking sctricly about my job as a tank

[north wigeon]

someone told me that guardian is getting a nerf and a buff next reaet, but I cant find the blue post. Is it true?

[formal stream]

As a new player/tank, I find maisara and triumvirat the most annoying dungeons.

[brazen tinsel]

No guardian changes are announced

[north wigeon]

thx

[north wigeon]

Sky ia the worse for me

[alpine spear]

Hey y'all I had a question regarding talents.

Why are we taking Circle of the wild instead of Circle of the heavens. We barely do any phys damage it seems.

[brazen tinsel]

Check the pin, it has an answer

But tldr is tooltips in wow suck

Always pick wild

[summer hatch]

is there stuff u can take as nopex to do more damage

like sacrifice survivability for damage

[mild goblet]

I’m watching Yodas 22 Seat video and I notice he doesn’t switch forms to break the circle beam attack thingy from the subjugators at all. I’ve watched his GCD addon and it seems like he just ignores it?

I’m guessing maybe the first gets like mass dispelled but what about the others?

Or is bear during lust just so tanky it’s not worth the dps loss to even care?

Also I notice him using what I think is Mangle? What are the conditions at which mangle might be better then moon beam?

[quaint pond]

mangle gives you more rage which is used to lower incarn CD. moonfire lowers lunar beam CD. so you can pick one or the other depending on which cd you need to lower more

[brazen tinsel]

That will get you killed as EC

You can't

[mild goblet]

It looks like he’s doing it though? I personally won’t, I realize yoda and his team are next level, but at a 22 it’s crazy he never shape shifts

[mild goblet]

Ah this makes sense, I need to keybind mangle and include this in my rotation

[brazen tinsel]

I mean shapeshifting will get you killed as EC

Not staying in bear

[mild goblet]

Ohhh

[brazen tinsel]

You lose all of your ironfurs as EC

[mild goblet]

What should you do to counter the subjugator?

[brazen tinsel]

Nothing special, you just rotate your buttons as always

It's not particularly scary for tanks

[mild goblet]

Oh I did not know this. I thought heart of the wild and doing the cat thing was good but now I know for higher keys

[brazen tinsel]

Things that are tuned to kill your group are never super threatening for tanks

[brazen tinsel]

It is but not on trash

[mild goblet]

Oh interesting, as brew I always tiger lusted it but I guess bear is just tankier

[brazen tinsel]

You save that for bosses mostly

[mild goblet]

This is very enlightening!

What keybind are y’all using for ironfur? I’ve been a noob having it macro’d with thrash, trying to figure out what’s an easy key to spam

Sorry for the spam of questions, does anyone know why Yoda would be spam soaking the balls on boss 2?

[brazen tinsel]

Every ball that gets destroyed by the circles on players explode for extra aoe damage

Just makes it slightly safer for your group

[wary hearth]

My movement skills are on sdfe, so I use like this:

G mangle
T ironfur
R moonfire
W swipe
Q frenzied regeneration
A thrash

It is so I can use those skills easyly while moving

Z for survival instincts
X for sundering roar
C lunar beam
V maul/raze

2 macro for health consumables, such as health pots
3 barkskin
4 typhoon

All CCs, Incarne and such are on left side from mouse, and shift and those buttons to change form.

Honorable mention, capslock for interrupt

[daring nymph]

I’m so happy

That people are using mangle

[vague sage]

Oh no, he said the M word

[wary hearth]

I really cant play the thrash, mf, mf, mf, trash, repeat. I stop paying attention and dont interrupt or use defensives, and start paying more attention to youtube or something, even though parse % are lowering since the meme spec does bigger numbers overall

I like my burst windows though

[red knoll]

how tf does blood do damage in raid

...>

[twilit copper]

[red knoll]

im doing 30k on chimmy and im pressing my buttons x.x

[clear atlas]

that just sounds wrong lol

[void magnet]

pressing them wrong order

[odd cave]

You can just macro it to lunar beam and mash that key even when lunar beam is on cd and save yourself a keybind

[mild goblet]

I thought the advice of a good tank was not to macro it? I'm not sure which to do

[latent oracle]

bind it to something very easy to press that will not give you carpal tunnel in one expansion

mine is scroll wheel down

[clear atlas]

ideally you don't macro it, as that is optimal play. That being said, if it's a QoL hit you'd take to bind it then you can do that. Honestly, I would get used to pressing it not only because it's optimal, but because it builds good habits. This form of bear (where our main generator and damage spender have relatively lower value) won't last imho so you don't wanna have to undo bad habits down the road.

just happens to be that we're back at the form of terrible degenerate gameplay with bear again

[olive hare]

Depends. As a fresh bear starter its problematic to macro fur because you need to get a feeling for fur durations and rage management. If thats not the case its 99% fine to macro fur with no apex builds, the 1% being that you will occassionally delay a brez by a global and that you wont be able to use maul on bosses (which you ideally want since its a small dps gain in single target)

[rough quartz]

How are you living the pack after bird boss in skyreach on 19+? I'm dying through all defs

[carmine void]

they put a debuff fiery talons, you need to kite / cc them otherwise rip. one of the birds do that.

anything above 10 stacks ur dead

even 10 stacks is harsh

[rough quartz]

I kited immediately and died within 3 seconds. Maybe I need to ursols

Or are they immune to ursols

[carmine void]

you need to watch it

they apply the stacks quick

group has to help alot also

[clear atlas]

tbh you don't really kite. it's a tiny duration applied via every auto, so you can backstep a lot of the time with a slow down to naturally resset

if you're standing still, you'll get them ramping

[carmine void]

soft kite, ye

[clear atlas]

but it's more looking for opportunities to get a reset going

[rough quartz]

I need to practice it more then. I ran up to get the pack on the left, then back pedaled the whole way after they got gathered

[carmine void]

i play the right pack there

myself

[clear atlas]

I do the left pack personally. On +19 i'd reset around 5-6. I play with UDK/Ret/DevDH so I just have my DK run DnD slow and it's easy to get resets.

[carmine void]

that works in teams, but pugs wise

nobody even knows that fiery talons exists

[clear atlas]

sure but it's not hard to ask your pugs to drop an earthbind, RoP, etc.

if you're doing a +19, that's a reasonable expectation. Most of the time it's not communciated and people expect others to read minds. Simply saying "when I ping you drop RoP" will do you wonders

tbh, druid has more than enough tools to handle it solo

but it doesn't hurt to communicate

[carmine void]

i agree with you, it's not hard, i always tell people help wtih this watch for that. They never listen.

also on EU, which im playing lots dont even understand english

[clear atlas]

well I do a lot of pugging (more so than I do in my groups) and I'd say a large majority of the time they do

[olive hare]

Just avoid french players, problem solved.

[clear atlas]

yeah language barriers can be a problem 🙁

[carmine void]

easier on a server where english is the main lang

[clear atlas]

yeah, I'm on NA so it's a bit easier for sure

[carmine void]

aslo i only pug, which i managed to get my bear to do 18's, attempted a 19 AA, went well till ppl wiped on last boss.

[clear atlas]

happens. I also see so many tanks play that boss wrong as well, so there may be some things to learn to make it easier for your team

you have a TON of control on that one

unlike the bird boss where we pray for the healer

[carmine void]

yea i have a tactic for that one

but ppl have to leave the puddles in acceptable places

[clear atlas]

ahh see you can control that as well 🙂

[carmine void]

yea i can get them in an general area where they will leave puddles, which i do, but somehow they manged to leave it under boss

1 sec after the boss casts aoe, rip

[clear atlas]

that's honestly what they should be doing

it's on you to reposition.

after a vaccum, you have a bit of a grace period where you won't get hit by shit on the pull in

from there it's just mvoing the boss ahead of the succ.

[carmine void]

i get that the tank should do everything, but that's not always the case

[clear atlas]

this boss is all about boss positioning

which you control

the room is massive as well

[carmine void]

i know im well aware

at this point i should also log their char and to the mechanics for them

[olive hare]

My most common experience on last boss AA is that you announce that you'll kite the boss in a circle and still ranges will be standing behind you, dropping puddles behind you, entirely messing up the strat for ego reasons (less moving, less awareness towards evading orbs)

[clear atlas]

well your first issue is going in a circle

[olive hare]

Thats not an issue, its one of the two common strats.

[clear atlas]

commonly misconcepted, yes

it's a square

[carmine void]

i tank it exactly as andybrew, which i was already doing almost the same.

[clear atlas]

puddles time out after 3 vaccums

we all like to think we can emulate the best

but that's not always the case

[carmine void]

i have a replay, and i watch myself all the time

[clear atlas]

not only that, but if you tank like andy, you're tanking like you have a premade

which you said you do not

so you can't simply apply that to a group. That's why you play it in a way to mitigate error

their strats aren't optimized for pugs

[carmine void]

you must always have a different answer right? 🙂

[clear atlas]

as they don't really play them

no, I just don't have the "i copy this guy" answer

[carmine void]

read it again

[clear atlas]

i tank it exactly as andybrew, which i was already doing almost the same.

[carmine void]

which i was already doing almost the same.

and was pretty succesful with it.

you asume i made mistakes which i didn't. i can't fix pugs, that's it.

[clear atlas]

yeah, stinks when everyone else is the problem

[carmine void]

i watch my gameplay after each dung mate

[clear atlas]

and?

[carmine void]

i know when i do mistakes and when i don't

that time i didn't

[clear atlas]

do you have other people watch it?

[carmine void]

why shall i?

[clear atlas]

or are you coming in from only your bias

[carmine void]

it my gameplay

[oblique moat]

[clear atlas]

because you can often not see your own mistakes

[olive hare]

I mean I'm totally fine with your approach of taking responsibility as a tank and always thinking about what you couldve done better before pointing fingers. And using pug hacks when avaiable to keep the risk for error at a minimum. But at 17+ (which is beyond boost till mount range) imho its reasonable to expect a minimum level of dungeon mechanic awareness. People who think they can tunnel vision to 3,7k+ need the reality check.

[carmine void]

i clearly can

if that's not within your skill set to aknowledge your own mistakes, that's on you bud. GL with your mentality.

[clear atlas]

mechanic awareness is fine to assume, which in that fight is dropping the orbs locally and dodging the projectiles. How you optimize that space and make it harder or easier for others is on you.

assuming I may have blindspots is my mentality yes

I'd love to be perfect but that's not in the cards, so having another perspective helps.

[red knoll]

Andy also doesnt play optimally so its okay

Dont need to play optimally

[odd cave]

knowing dungeon mechanic and reading your mind are not the same thing

you one of those dudes who never talks to his group then rages when they do not execute the strategy that exists only in his head

[olive hare]

Sounds like you didnt get the whole context of the conversation.

[odd cave]

"ill move clockwise, drop pools behind boss" takes all of 4 seconds to type

[olive hare]

Because if you did

you wouldve notice that I typed EXACTLY that.

[odd cave]

you're saying people at 17s don't have mechanic awareness

they do

that doesn't mean they know your strategy to deal with those mechanics, and you're effectively blaming them for not knowing your strategy which you didn't tell them

[olive hare]

just fyi.

[odd cave]

it's like when 2 players keep overlapping kicks, both players understood the mechanic, but their strategy was off

95% of the problem with pug groups is that they are deathly allergic of typing anything and expect every single person to know the exact same strat for every pull etc

[olive hare]

I'm totally fine with telling a sub 3k pug dps to slow, knock or hardcc the adepts in a +15 key occassionally. If we're pushing a +18 key with 3,4-3,5k players thats a good example of a mechanic a dps should be aware of to optimize group performance.

[abstract raven]

anyone know hwo to make EVLUI show Sheilding on unitframs player and parts

[drifting fable]

fellow druids, I am sorry to ask this noob question. in this 19... I have it on compare mode to someone who cleared it in the past 5 days, 10 sec difference from my clear... please look and tell me why his thrash is doing so much more dmg.. what am I doing wrong? my dps can't compare.. please help idk how to work logs too good

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/g3b2LadHjr9FVXxQ/23vCwp6zHFQRNkT7?fight=15%2C2&type=auras&source=5%2CZexyt&comparesearchmetric=dps

i am missing something, idk what

[rustic kestrel]

theres dps in 20s that dont have mechanic awareness

[grand plinth]

I have done pug 21s where dps will do some shit you've never thought of before

In terms of missing whats happening

[red knoll]

You ever have dps just int the maze in skyreach

Like multiple deaths

[olive hare]

He just did the +19 with less, but bigger pulls and some chaining, at least thats what the encounter dropdown menu looks like. Also that devourer in his comp is basically a 3% damage amp for noapex bears.

Having a decent route with time efficient chaining makes a world of a difference on your keyparse.

[oblique adder]

is there a macro to put ironfur into moonfire and thrash

[carmine void]

he i also playing a more crit build from what i see, could factor in bigger thrash hits in general.

also his sundering roar seems more effective then yours, might be that also.

[olive hare]

Nah. Crit and Mastery will both increase your damage per cast on similar scale, thats not it. And yeah, the damage done from sundering roar is another indicator that the other tank just went bigger.

[carmine void]

hm, yea true, but could be more random with crit no? like you can have a dungeon with alot more damage then the other due to it being a chance.

most likey it's route/pull size with small factors in gearing

[olive hare]

not impossible, but extremely unlikely, with the fuckton of damage events across a m+ run, offensive crit value will average out. Its pretty similar to its defensive value, dodging seems like a huge gamble, but given how many melee hits you take over the course of a key its still a very reliable mitigation.

[carmine void]

true

that's why i aim for more crit nowadays, to get some more dodge, helps out with skyreach firey chickens

and other simillar instances

[olive hare]

Yeah. Thats what I'd suggest as well, crit has some decent benefits with this seasons on hit effects. Still went haste + mastery in case I ever get to play feral or boomer for boostkeys or similar stuff. Which ofc didnt happen so far, cant convince my wife to give the big boy role a shot.

[carmine void]

lol

[deft panther]

Can anyone help sanity check this for me: I have been running a lot of sims and the Darkmoon Hunt trinket keeps coming up as very competitive compared to Emberwind Feather and Heart of Wind. I have tested A LOT of configurations. Same results.

Those are max level trinkets, so 298 for emberwind, heart of wind, 295 for DMCH

Anyone else seeing something like this?

Same for Alch Trinket btw.

[olive hare]

Its not a terrible trinket 👍 But you did make sure to not rum the sim with two other embellishments correct? Because the trinket counts as one.

[deft panther]

Yes, only one other embelishment

The sim can't run it if you don't take off one of the other ones.

[olive hare]

Oh thats neat, didnt know it puts out an error if you try running 3+

[deft panther]

And an additional question, the Alch trinket with Vers and at a primary stat proc and added effect on health pots, does anyone have a qualitative idea about the defensive benefits of that compared to say Emberwing? Because the Alch is actually not far off in dps either.

Yeah, it gives you an error on the item itself. It has a red text saying that it can iterate this item. That goes away when you e.g. removee arcanoweave lining from your bracers.

So, the sim can run, but will not return any values for the item that has the "extra" embellishment.

[abstract raven]

What key lvls people drop Moonless + Brambles for more tanky talents? Assume in 21+

[willow ridge]

Haha i have the exact same problem. Looking at logs my thrash damage is way lower than many others. It’s like I’m missing something.

Is there anyway to look at parses for the last week? Many of the parses in the logs today are from before the nerf.

[abstract raven]

You get exactly EVERY single thrash possible? Coz when you miss 1 cast over a base of a minute you lose a lot of damage the difference between missing 3-5 and getting them all is huge

[lime atlas]

Both guides I've read are kinda wonky here so I guess I have a question on prio spenders. Do we use mangle at all anymore? icyveins says no in one section, but then it's second prio in rotation

[abstract raven]

Key from Friday https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/26AtWNF8G7jMgwK9?fight=6&type=damage-done really focued on hitting trash Asap using Incarn to reset the CD to get another one and same with sunder roar so I could get out more thrashes over the key

I can tell you I'm not good but I do okey

[willow ridge]

Hm well of course I miss some but I have 320 thrash casts compared with one of the top 100 on pit 19 after nerfs having 314

[abstract raven]

Yesh neally all our damage is in Thrash so it take prior over all for dance

damage

[willow ridge]

My thrash dps is 44k overall and the other one is 68k overall. Around same ilvl.

[lime atlas]

Bigger pulls, perhaps

[abstract raven]

Bigger pulls more casts More
Crits 🤷‍♂️

[willow ridge]

Yeah can be, maybe I’ll get Claude to break it down

Might try higher crit cus comparing to others thats what I’m lacking in stats

[abstract raven]

hast hast hast is all i run

got over 1k of it

rest is equal

[normal flower]

Did you send a log BT

Because it's probably a route diff

The spec is pretty dumb, the stats don't matter as much for druid. It won't explain an average cast diff of 25%

[willow ridge]

It might be but it’s pit and it was a pretty ”standard route”.

[normal flower]

Do you wait for a pack to be dead before getting into the next one ?

Do you pull packs in bosses ?

[willow ridge]

Sometimes but most of the time chaining

And we had a ret pals so funnel = yes

😁👍

When there is a prisoner to free I’m not chaining before it’s released

[normal flower]

I haven't played much this season, but my guess is that anyone could meld and release the prisoners while the group keeps going ?

[abstract raven]

You dojng adds on bosses? And doing giga pulls? Coz alot of people dont

[willow ridge]

Adds on bosses = yes. Gigapulls = not compared to mdi

https://keystone.guru/route/pit-of-saron/d0op6YM/18-20/2

Almost the same route

I don’t split 2-3

[normal flower]

Did you log ?*

[abstract raven]

Okey your doing “small” pulls my first pull normally has 1 more pack

[willow ridge]

With enforces on the right

?

[abstract raven]

My 2rd boss has 2 packs in too it

[willow ridge]

Some skip enforcers on the right @first pull and take left pack instead with caster

[abstract raven]

6+7 together

[willow ridge]

Oh I don’t have 7

My 6 is bigger and taking the jump downs pull 7 which is 8+9 and jump downers

Goshhaha so irritating being on the phone

[abstract raven]

I take 1 of the 8 pack in too boss with the necro

Then you do 9+dragon then do boss with the pack you missed and neco

[willow ridge]

I have 3 pulls between fourth pull and first boss

I only do Necro on first boss. Do you mean group 42?

[abstract raven]

Split pull 8 in half do half with 9 then bring the 3 adds plus neco

So you have 8 mobs + boss

[craggy nova]

I see many guardian druids run crafted chest for haste vers.
Are shoulders in the same ballpark? Since there is no haste vers shoulders

[willow ridge]

https://keystone.guru/route/pit-of-saron/nSsmjCr/pit-of-saron-temporary-route/2

[olive hare]

Written guides are often poorly maintained and outdated fragments. The TLDR is, if you play the no-apex build which everyone plays right now, you never press mangle unless you need the rage for a brez or regen. Which you usually wont since there is a lot of passive rege generation going on at EC.

[willow ridge]

There we go. I think I managed to do it properly on the phone.

[olive hare]

Dont fall for it. Vers is not better than crit or mastery for bears, haste is a little better for no apex bears but that alone doesnt justify passing on 3 itemlevels on a high budget slot.

[craggy nova]

I crafted hast vers ring for more haste, i guess rings is fine due to lack of agi

[abstract raven]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XyjqdTQNVLJ8CHZb?fight=2&type=damage-done only log I have doing it

[daring nymph]

press mangle pls

for incarn

[abstract raven]

Lol why? It's a waist

[willow ridge]

Why? Why and when would we wanna press mangle for incarn?

(Curious)

[daring nymph]

more rage generation means more rage spent which means more cdr for incarn

[willow ridge]

Oh I spend all of my rage on IF lol I’m lazy

[daring nymph]

thats fine

[abstract raven]

In big pulls I always have full Rage 🤷‍♂️ so little more means nothing to me

[willow ridge]

But I have no trouble with generating it

[daring nymph]

mangle means more burst rage to spend on ironfur instantly for instant cdr

return to scroll wheel

[chrome echo]

Hey guys, sometimes in Incarn im noticing that I get 0 cd on Thrash, while sometimes i still have the half cd. anyone know why, is there a specific talent that im not seeing?

[willow ridge]

So you would prio mangle before mf?

[daring nymph]

i would use mangle over non gg mf yes

[willow ridge]

High parses?

Parse parse parse!

[craggy nova]

mhh i mean yeah you could maybe do that to align incarn better to some ciritical points but at the cost of lunar beam cooldown?

[abstract raven]

I do 90-100% never hitting it lol

[willow ridge]

Yeah

But if it’s 100% with it I might try 😉

[daring nymph]

i mean

ya?

people chasing giga lunar beam uptime

dont realize that a good chunk of that uptime is wasted

so your not really sacing anything

your just using that wasted uptime and turning it to incarn cdr

unfortantely this isnt a data point people can look at at a glance. it takes alot of digging and looking between puls and logs to realize how much wasted uptime there is

[daring nymph]

probably should log it and come back after a key showing us. as far as i know this isnt something ive noticed personally

[craggy nova]

I think theres certainly nuance to push incarn with mangle, from my little experience that I have so far after playing this baer alt for some time I feel lunar beam is really busted and it makes sense to somewhat be priotized generally.
I do a gree that if a "pull is dying off" it makes sense to push for incarn and keep beam for next etc.

[daring nymph]

ya thats fair, but like people dont realize how much of that is wasted uptime

gg mf procs should net you roughly the max amount of useful lunar beam cdr per key. estimated anyways

so you could just mangle instead of normal mf and get incarn cdr with a ironfur scroll wheel to instantly consume said rage

its just one of those things bear mains notice while people who just get into dont realize

[cloud pebble]

Bl at the same time?

[craggy nova]

"gg mf"

what does that mean? moonfire and?

[latent oracle]

galactic guardian moonfire

[craggy nova]

Ah, it shows that i started guardian on Wednesday

[craggy nova]

Thank you

[latent oracle]

good luck with the guardian journey fun spec

[lyric wraith]

nexus first pull in high keys

feels like im flipping a coin on that pull. If I spam less globals to gather and avoid melees from the defenders someone rips threat and I die, but if I get aggro and take swings I fall instantly very behind in 21, how do you guys rotate barkskin + survival instincts that pull?

[craggy nova]

I personally just thrash moonfire first two once, as I approach the 2nd pack running towards me I do moon fire them, swap to moonkin > heart of the wild > charge thrash 2nd pack & thrash > moonfire 3rd pack > lunar beam 4th pack so that the caster starts casting for my interrupt charge to matter. walk up to seer and moonfire him once.
Somewhere between that sequence i bark/regen on demand.

Its a very long sequence and thrash & moonfire + starfall take care of heal aggro + buildups, if ppl aggro its on them.

[stiff phoenix]

How valuable are the recommended speed enchants on helm and shoulders? I’m healing for a guild now but pushing keys as tank and not sure if I’m losing much by keeping healer enchants on those slots (leech)

[craggy nova]

leech is fine

actually prefered in higher keys where u go slower anyway

[stiff phoenix]

Awesome thank you

Maybe I’ll roll some bonus legs and can just have a pair each anyway for that issue

[craggy nova]

i mean the movement speed doesnt do that much, its mostly noticeable on long-winded pulls like nexus, windrunner etc, but you are generally faster than most healers due to charge etc so i do not see much value than further outpacing your healer

your speed is more tied to your globals and how fast you can "gather" by fast gcds versus your actual run speed

[craggy nova]

np! yw

[chrome echo]

i think this is it, just tested

obscene haste

i assume it works the same for PI as well

[sharp kiln]

Are you guys saving Sundering until you already have 5 thrash on your mobs or just using it on CD?

[willow ridge]

Do you guys open with lunar beam?

[sharp kiln]

I gather then LB to consolidate. +That extra dmg cant hurt lol

[willow ridge]

Fack I don’t think I’m playing lunar beam good enough. How big is the beam area?

[sharp kiln]

About yay big?

[willow ridge]

Ah like this big?

[lyric wraith]

what talent build are you taking for starfall?

[willow ridge]

Have to practice more to it

[sharp kiln]

Idk, I just use the graphic. Like if its a multi pack pull Ill moonfire to bring them all over, thrash on arrival for aggro (or as run if its a hall way, then LB once Im settled to keep them all in it.
The damage isnt worth stressing over, its minimal, but I like to have it over not

[lyric wraith]

this one i use doesn't enable it

[sharp kiln]

I dont take it so dont quote me, but I think you drop the 2nd matted fur and Honed instincts for Starfire and Moonkin form'

Then its just moonkin, HOTW, bear

Like cat HOTW

But less bleed, more AOE

[craggy nova]

innervate can be symbiotic, roar cd, 5% base ms, matted fur, doesnt matter

[craggy nova]

can sometimes use as emergency aggro button but ideally you use it post 5th stack right after thrash.

[sharp kiln]

Cheers

[sharp kiln]

Looking for any tips to improve. I usually use WoW Analyser for this but its not updated for nopex haha. Logs link so you can roast me.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FdzxcKPvYtw83q9j?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=2

[narrow breach]

Hi can I have tanking advice for Seat 19-20?

Do we form swap to remove the chains or does that usually get us popped and killed?

With persistance talent ofc

I've had it happen once or twice and I'm too scared to do it and brick keys on the spot now

[olive hare]

Nah dont shift that as an EC bear. Those 2 pulls are ~90% melee hits and maybe 10% chains damage and youll loose all your fur stacks on shifting.

[trim plaza]

ye chains are not killing u, its champions

[lucid arrow]

thrash more

unbind maul

[sharp kiln]

Even for ST?

[trim plaza]

i mean, st its dmg upgrade but kinda needs KB

also u need like 20%+ more uptime in ironfur

[sharp kiln]

It was a 10 so I may have not have been using during bosses and just dumping rage into maul haha

[trim plaza]

also u play basic Nopex build, u get free 5% mastery with ironfur rolling which is dmg buff pretyt much

[sharp kiln]

Ahh true

Makes sence

[rustic dust]

Howdy! New to guardian druid just trying it for funsies but I went into this key and was having an issue where my frenzied regen wasn't working, was off cooldown and I had enough rage and it acted like it used a charge sending a GCD but no charges were actually used, anyone have that issue?

[fathom badger]

its possible disable mangle proc from screen?

[hazy mural]

was this during your incarnation cd?

[rustic dust]

Negative

[hazy mural]

thats weird... that's what happens during incarnation as it has no CD and u can use it as many times as u want as long as u have the rage for it

[clear yew]

how hard i get humbled in higher keys 18/19 with these stats?

[high path]

secondaries aren't real and don't matter

you'll be fine

just play properly

[trim plaza]

it might have happened that ur rage went into IF instead of FR just when u pressed it, u have IF macroed?

[rustic dust]

Nah I don't have IF macro'd

[onyx sonnet]

Do you have the log?

[spare pollen]

why does andy and some other high rio druids craft chest?

[slate aurora]

Guys, a question. in MC after the mini-boss room does happen to you too to "Ninja" pulling bats? I used to play Monk and I never pulled them once. In fact, when I tried to route them, I went crazy trying to find and target them, but with the Druid, they come every time.

[slate aurora]

stats, 'couse other pieces of gear can be found with right stats

[willow ridge]

Hm why is Yoda eating the wind chakram in SR?

[clear atlas]

Yes, there is an option in settings you can adjust the opacity for.

[trim plaza]

lunar beam if they fly over can do that

[brazen tinsel]

Optimal gameplay ofc

[willow ridge]

What do we gain from it lol

[brazen tinsel]

I'm being sarcastic

[hasty basin]

Is there a macro to only use regrowth when you have a dream of cenarius proc?

[twilit drum]

Last boss of Magister's Terrace, can the tank leave melee range to go soak beach balls? I'm reading there's no penalty to leaving the boss.

[spare pollen]

yes

you dont have to stay in melee to tank it

[fallen robin]

No. Disabled in DF. You can disable autounshift outside of combat (or use an add-on to do so) and be unable to shift to travel form from bear form if you want.

[mellow yoke]

Hello what is the % statt for puch in drood ?

[trim plaza]

didnt understand ur question at all

[slate aurora]

I tryed also switching talent but take them anyway

[willow ridge]

Puch dude

[trim plaza]

thef is puch

[trim plaza]

might aswell be the waking nightmare bug

[jovial mauve]

I have a problem with innervate, i macroed on mouse over like i do with all the spells that can target friendly player but it doenst cast it on healer, do i have to switch to human form and then innervate?

When i cast another spell like regrowth with no proc or SR my char auto switf to human but not with innervate

Also using the exact same macro for those spells

[vapid forum]

What are my best options outside of puzzle box? I'm not using that bullshit

[jovial mauve]

For m+?

[trim plaza]

gaze, feather, heart of wind, solarprism and dragon tank trinket

[fluid gust]

you can cast innervate in bear.
IDK about mousecast macro, but you can take the option mouseover in the settings

can you send me your macro tano?

[vapid forum]

yeah m+ mostly

[jovial mauve]

Also beloren plume and guidon

The bis should be gaze+plume or gaze+dreadscale

[jovial mauve]

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead][]Innervate

i use this with all healing, dispels, and "buff" spells

it also works with holy shock that can be casted on enemys

[quaint pond]

what key do you have it bound to

[acoustic veldt]

Can someone explain to me about Heart of the wild spell. When I cast in bear form it knocks me out. So, Im not sure how to properly use it.

[jovial mauve]

why? B

[jovial mauve]

if u are in bear it switt to human and cast wild growth on all ur party members

you have to switch to cat and cast it

[quaint pond]

mouseover bound to mouse buttons can fuck up if you try to mouseover frames instead of plate, but B shouldn't be an issue

[acoustic veldt]

So the proper way is to switch into cat use MoW and then switch back to bear form?

Like wont we die lol.

[jovial mauve]

i use freedom/tigerlust, with moussebuttons on party frames

no problem at all

[fluid gust]

DELETE
Makro is working fine with german text
Its working with mouseover Char and unit frame
its working with and without a space between ] and innervate

[vapid forum]

If i dont use raze can i bind ironfur to every button?

[quaint pond]

do you get any error message at all or does it just silently fail?

[fallen robin]

There is a talent called Persistence that makes your Bear Form armor/health decay over time when you switch out. If you are playing the Elune's Chosen hero tree you will drop Ironfur, if you are Druid of the Claw a hero talent called Wildshape Mastery allows Ironfur and Frenzied Regeneration to stay active when you switch to Cat.

[jovial mauve]

In the middle of the key with all the things happening idk tbh

[acoustic veldt]

I found it thank you. Now im no scared lol.

[fallen robin]

Be responsible when shifting still, but have fun!
If you use Moonkin HotW, shifting from Bear-> Moonkin will briefly give you more armor than you would have in Bear+1 IF stack.

[acoustic veldt]

Of course and ty. I just wanted to figure out how to use the heart of the wild. I found myself not suing it lol.

[grand panther]

Seat adds before 1st boss
after we get that debuff
should we get rid of it by switching forms?

is that safe?

[fluid gust]

the macro seem to be working.
Maybe the problem is a other addon or Interface or your settings on bear.
you can try: Settings -> Combat -> Mouseover on

[hazy mural]

it's safer to stay bear tbh, its like light damage to us compared to everyone else

[trim plaza]

not recommended but if u find it easier for u, go ahead

[spice nebula]

Maybe just Moonfire. I don’t think I’d use it on every spell. What if you’re going to need a frenzied regen & you starve yourself of rage.

[jovial mauve]

ideally w8 for a moment where u will not receive many tank dmg but ur bear armor and hp still like 3 sec after swifting

or thats what char stats says

u'll loose ironfur stacks but on many bosses or when only the last mob of the pack is alive is not that important

also we have guardian tree "persistence" talent

also u can help with healing on bosses when they party need it

i always try to use my regrowth procs on party members

im resil 19, timed my 1st +20 today and I never died on a boss switching form just for a global

[vapid forum]

Do I put Haste Vers on all my crafted gear?

[trim plaza]

ye u wont die to a boss

[trim plaza]

kinda personal opinion, what u like

[fallen robin]

Can sim or vibe whatever stats you like. Stats are not the thing that holds you back as long as you get ilvl.

[vapid forum]

Dope, I love you guys for being helpful ❤️

[trim plaza]

if u want perfect stats for dmg->sim, if not, then what u like

but there is not a single stat what makes u survive better etc, master ur gameplay and u chillin

[cobalt lava]

freshly dinged 90, whats best dungeon to throw my bonus rolls at?

[safe echo]

Windrunner spire is a pretty good spot.

[cobalt lava]

thanks

[half surge]

guys what talent i can cut off for sotf?

[trim plaza]

just remember to roll as guardian loot spec, so u skip the garbage dps trinkets

[mossy snow]

Shared in WoW Noob Discord, too... Is there any easy way to make icons "glow" like Regrowth does with [Dream of Cenarius]? I'm wanting [Ironfur] to glow whenever [Gift of an Ancient Guardian] mastery buff ends, and [Frenzied Regeneration] to glow whenever I'm below half health. If there's not a native way to make it happen, can you recommend light addons?

[trim plaza]

SR/UW or natural resi i would say

[half surge]

sr is sundering roar ok, but whats UW?

and.. maybe waking nightmare or it does too much dam to drop off

[trim plaza]

ursols warding, under moonfire dr

[half surge]

oh i see ye

[trim plaza]

waking is way stronger than sundering

[half surge]

not sure how big is a 7% magic DR

[trim plaza]

it has its niches but

its not something magical xd

i would myself keep UW and take sundering out

sundering just feels so bad to use idk xd

hate it

[half surge]

idk.. sundering has good potential for burst during early or late incarn

also its a DR from thrash stacks so...

idk...

man its never enough talents

just never enough

gotta try it out, cuz i use mangle pretty often myself to keep incarn CD lower

esp in seat/npx

where incarn for few pulls is like necessary

[trim plaza]

it has been proved WN is way stronger than Sundering, but like i said what u prefer

or not like wayyy stronger but good

[slim tinsel]

how much does it help to soak the balls on second boss of seat as a tank?

[trim plaza]

kinda helpful, cause it will sometimes overlap with the bleed etc

and it does like 0 dmg to u

[jolly flame]

ok am i regarded but why are moonbears all playing with the +5% physcial instead of 5% magical? does the magical not apply to thrash or what

[trim plaza]

nope, a bit bad tooltip, physical means gurdian spells

[jolly flame]

aight that checks out

[trim plaza]

trash, lunar beam, mangle etc, magic means boomkin spells

[jolly flame]

magical is moonkin spells then?

[trim plaza]

y

[jolly flame]

ait ty brother

[trim plaza]

moonfire etc

nps

[frosty fiber]

Fresh 90 bear, best dungeon to send all rerolls?

[violet holly]

windrunner spire

[frosty fiber]

Jeez everything there is good huh

[unkempt drift]

i think im doing something wrong on skyreach idk

that dungeon first and second pull are just fucked

[trim plaza]

just be guardian loot spec when rolling, u dont want those bad dps trinkets there

[violet holly]

make sure you have defensives before the bladetalon hits you with the dash thing

tank is always the last hit so be ready

you take dmg and get a dot that makes you take more dmg

[copper spoke]

Which build is suggested for weekly keys? Non apex or dotc?

[olive hare]

no apex for everything key related basically. Dotc or apex in general can be competitive depending on dungeon and comp.

[copper spoke]

Roger that, tyyy

[unkempt drift]

the first one is livable but the second pull no incarn

is so rough

[violet holly]

what key level you are talking about? It is not that hard

if you use your cds correctly

bark and SI should be enough

dont need incarn to live the 2nd pull

[unkempt drift]

i tried it on a 20

by comparison pit was a joke and even with this scuffed gear 21 is easily timable, maybe 22

only pack after 2nd boss is scary there rest is a joke

[trim plaza]

u use barskin incarn to skyreach first pull

save every other defensive to second

[unkempt drift]

ig the blade talon needs to die fast af

maybe it lived too long hard to say

[cedar sierra]

jo boys does someone know why the mobs dont snap here: https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/mM94kz6UQncVqgwF7?invite=cr-MSx1c0YsMTcxNTc4NTg3&v=53

[unkempt drift]

you canty snap there

you have to snap on the stairs try that

at least that works for masks and laborers

[violet holly]

I always run through the broken part

and they snap down

[unkempt drift]

they snap on the rocks or?

[cedar sierra]

i will check it out

stairs didnt work the other pack get pulled

[unkempt drift]

i realised i was replying to another guy xd

[cedar sierra]

not working somehow for me

tried so much out now idk

[brave raft]

Are there any articles regarding augmentation, and an estimate to how much it increases our survivability? I kinda feel like I die far more often without em, but curious as if its just what I feel, or if its a fact

[brazen tinsel]

aug does basically nothing for your survivability

at most a few % of physical DR with scales (if they have it) and even then if you play nopex you'll often be at the armor cap in icarn

Ebon Might doesnt work on tanks and you dont even add to or benefit from their breath shield

Zephyr I guess works on tanks but that's just any basic grp cd

[covert prairie]

they still can remove bleed(first pull aa +all bird area fights) and enrages in seat and mc,its nice but you dont need them,you have to play a bit differently and you will still be fine

[willow ridge]

Can someone explain to me why my thrash ( https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gFhZVnAy3N2wfXdP?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=4 ) isnt doing 50kdps like this dudes is ( https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JLt4Bfj2R1MaDxzT?fight=2&type=damage-done&source=2 )? Really trying to use it on cd, i have 182 casts compared to 196 but I only have 929 hits compared to 1424. Am I standing too far away?!

[trim plaza]

u sure ur gear is not worse?

[covert prairie]

no

its the route

[willow ridge]

sure im behind with 2 ilvl but we are playing the same trinks

[covert prairie]

they went straight to the second blade talon ,first pull

you pulled 1

they have much bigger pulls

[trim plaza]

ahh true

also to note he has higher crit% in trash

[willow ridge]

so they went upstairs on 1st pull?

[trim plaza]

yes

[covert prairie]

yes also you are playing with paladin xD

[half surge]

does this one has fixed maximum ppm? and does it proc off every moonfire on all mobs or just one im targeting?

[covert prairie]

ive seen it activate on mobs im not even close to/targeting.so its on all mobs

[quaint pond]

it's 1 hasted rppm, can proc on anything with mf ticking

[half surge]

So theoretically more targets = more procs

[quaint pond]

no

[half surge]

and more haste = more procs

[quaint pond]

rppm specifically makes things not scale with targets

[half surge]

haste?

[jovial mauve]

i used to play brew and did my MT route on a +20 but the counter said like 99,6%

is there any mob that is not linked and my moonfire didnt pulled?

i did this route

exact 100%

maybe a book that didnt came on g6?

[covert prairie]

a mana wyrm sometimes spawn on the other side of the wall

[jovial mauve]

btw after kill the boss i jumped down to kill a void infuser and dk pets pulled also 2 mini bosses

almost gives me a heartstroke but we killed that void infused with some deaths and a fear casted xd

[trim plaza]

unholy pets are mayhem

gotta be really careful

they are pullin shit out of combat often for some reasons

[jovial mauve]

y luckly we skipped the pack and priest gripped him, pets didnt pulled

but after boss y

[jovial mauve]

thats disgusting

[half surge]

shitty coding not udk fault

[trim plaza]

ik, but has to be extra careful because of that xd

[burnt sandal]

Sometimes moonfire will fuck with pull 4

Idk if it’s a twin moons thing. Idk what it is at all but there and like first room seat there will be one mob still chilling on a lot of packs and I’m like how the fuck

[unkempt drift]

is there a way to track mob CDs with plater like you could before the addon apocalypse

[spare sail]

<@&114146878353833984>

[jovial mauve]

exboss

[half surge]

exboss

[jovial mauve]

any advise with this logs? i guess im doing low dmg only 65-70 dmg parse

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LTgbApzVkyq23nxB?fight=8&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jtk3qxRF7M2Nw9CV?fight=10&type=damage-done

btw dont have gaze, have to w8 for wednesday reset

[unkempt drift]

i dont mean boss timers but like cooldown on for example smash from knights in AA, you used to have it on plater like as a side module

is exboss just for bosses or also trash

[jovial mauve]

exboss is the only way to track these

also trash

[half surge]

excuse me for ping but i didnt get the message for procs.. does haste makes it proc more often? or its not

[jovial mauve]

my game is in spanish

but exboss has all the trash cd and it show on nameplates

[quaint pond]

it's hasted rppm yes

[wary ridge]

Hey guys, quick question i noticed my waking nightmare overal damage is always less than 5mil in 19 key

when i compare to othjer druids, they have total of 10m+

is there something i need to know

[jovial mauve]

What?

5 millions?

[wary ridge]

5-6

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CFmy6Ga9Drt38hgX?fight=last

im parsing 2-3% man im getting depressed

[jovial mauve]

Ah i missread

Sorry

Ur overall dmg is pretty low, ur walking nightmare is good

[tawny stone]

When comparing this to my failed 18 run, you had 230 thrashes vs 330 in mine for the same runtime. And just based off of your damage%, you are definitely behind on thrashes. Same when looking at Andy's MC logs

[wary ridge]

is it cuz ironfur macroed with thrash?

[tawny stone]

It shouldn't, but your waking nightmare damage isn't that far away from Andy's

So this is definitely related to your thrash usage

[trim plaza]

Check trash cpm

U get answer from that

[jovial mauve]

there are many things to fix instead of walking nightmare

on same key MC19 i casted 385 thrash

[wary ridge]

i see

[jovial mauve]

u did 294

almost 100 less

[tawny stone]

Andy has a Thrash CPM of 14.3 and you have 9.5

[jovial mauve]

u cast moonfire many times

when u have thrash up

ur mele uptime is good

just cast more thrash, everytime its up

[trim plaza]

Trash on cd, everything comes after that

[jovial mauve]

is n1 prio

[trim plaza]

Especially in incarn, every other cast always trash

[jovial mauve]

if u have to dispel, FR, or any cc just do it between thrash casts

thrash - moonfire - thrash - LB - thrash - SR - thrash - dispel - thrash - FR - thrash......

for example

[wary ridge]

thanks for the support

[unkempt drift]

wow nice thanks

[novel fern]

is warcraftlogs slow again?

[copper hornet]

always

[lethal elbow]

Yup

[novel fern]

must be some postgre issues

[wary ridge]

@trim plaza @jovial mauve @tawny stone https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/k4hFfqAtCrLB9x6G?fight=last&type=casts much better now thanks to your support

[trim plaza]

keep grinding bro

[real hearth]

What ilvl should a newb bear be to do ??

[warm jackal]

1 moonfire + 1 thrash dude decids to collapsing start while im gathering

[void magnet]

nelf check

[idle spindle]

builds still the same as last ? apex vs no apex?

[trim plaza]

Classic

[warm jackal]

he hit ignore faster than i wanted to leave that group (despite the removal)

he's actually still sitting in queue

[trim plaza]

Ye ignore, go next and let him sit in lfg

[rustic kestrel]

Theres a lot of people who should be using boomy form that arent

Watching some of these gdruids only use moonfire for aggro and just constantly losing it 🤢

[steel vault]

you mean, they're not using thrash, just moonfire?

[steel vault]

noapex is still what folks are using, mostly, in M+

[jovial mauve]

From 3 parse to 81! wp bro

[brazen tinsel]

is that academy

boomy is really good for academy

[lucid arrow]

it's npx it seems

from the defense channel

[brazen tinsel]

ah true

[lucid arrow]

if dh gets aggro on npx that's just him being a dpsbrain

in general getting aggro while pulling is a them issue but double so if it's not AA first pull

[warm jackal]

nexus point

the pull after the first pull (seer left)

i had moonfired the first 4 mobs thrashed em and started running to the next pack (the one around the beam on the short stairs)

then suddenly I see a frame turn red and the dh at like 200k dps on 4 mobs

[jovial mauve]

I had threat issues with that pack also when playing brew

I always stay like 3 sec in mele with them before pulling the rest

2 thrash and should be ok

[opaque cairn]

So how come I see bear druids running HOTW? Is it for some tech of going cat form for a damage increase?

[noble ledge]

It is a nice burst of priority damage when you HOTW in Cat Form yes

[opaque cairn]

Do ironfur stacks carry over out of bear form? I feel like if you're in a high key the boss would just one tap you in cat yeah?

[quaint pond]

no there is the persistence talent

[opaque cairn]

That makes sense

Is that just base bear armor that carries over or does the increased armor for ironfur also carry from that talent?

[brazen tinsel]

On bosses you're safe, almost all of them have huge ass casts too

Don't swap into cat on trash tho as EC

[opaque cairn]

Yeah thats basically what I was wanting to know

ty

[brazen tinsel]

As dotc you keep your IF in cat so it's a lot safer to do

[opaque cairn]

DOTC? Sorry I've just started trying the spec lol I usually play resto but im trying it out for shits and giggles

[subtle yew]

Druid of the claw

[opaque cairn]

Ty for the info

[harsh willow]

forgive me my friends i been looking around couldnt exaclty find it, sry in adv for silly question.....but for starfall/frenzy attacks where we shift, do you guys have a specific marco etc? find it difficult when its prob not

[brazen tinsel]

You don't need a macro

You just have to swap form, press the hotw button once and swap back

[sterile verge]

Why does it seem that macros are persona non grata here? I know doing everything manualy maybe the more purest way, and better way, and bring you closer to bliss way, but if someone asks a question about if you can macro something why not just answer the question instead of not.

[noble ledge]

I mean you can probably make macro that casts Rake + HOTW and then just manually mangle back, so 2 button presses instead of 3

But you do cause bit of a button bloat for that because you do want to also be able to shift out of snares, so generally that is not really too worth it unless you just really want multiple different buttons for catform

But yes, it is possible and you can do that

( or Cat Form instead of Rake if you're not using Fluid Form, obviously )

[olive hare]

Thats only true in very high keys and for a select number of heavy melee hitter pulls. Usually with persistence its very safe to to pull off a feral hotw during thrash.

[glass grove]

can anyone take a look at this log and tell me where i should be focusing to do some more damage? Any other glaring issues you guys are noticing? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rGWTzv1CjmYfcpw8?type=damage-done&fight=19&by=source

[hardy wing]

What dungeon should a fresh fotm druid use their rerolls on for gear?

[viral crow]

i was doing WRS

good trinkets and a weapon

AA probably also not a bad call, but i wouldn't be caught dead using Puzzle Box as a tanl

tank*

[forest flume]

your log is set to private btw

[glass grove]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rGWTzv1CjmYfcpw8?type=damage-done&fight=19&by=source thanks fixed

[wild bloom]

skyreach after 3rd boss, i cant do it

im losing the stack asap every time

stacks come back in a few sec

and i die

i just did a resi 17 3 times in a row

died every time at that pack

last try i managed to lose my stacks 6 or 7 times!

and then i got back high stack so fast i died anyway

what the f am i supposed to do

[marsh bluff]

How many are you pulling?

[wild bloom]

5

the pair and the trio

[marsh bluff]

I usually pull it outside and it gives me space, and incarn

But that's just me

[wild bloom]

i had incarn

and i ended up outside anyway

after losing my stack 2 or 3 times

[marsh bluff]

U dps can cc or use typo on or slow idk

[wild bloom]

ye

[marsh bluff]

Now that I'm thinking about it I don't really think about that and just run back and forth in like lines

[wild bloom]

the key leader was saying dps should have used cc more but i rly felt bad

[marsh bluff]

Nah trust, u just gotta play it on repeat till u got it down

There probably is a better way that just lines?

[wild bloom]

idk bro

[marsh bluff]

Typhoon, vortex

[wild bloom]

yeah ofc

thats how i lost my stacks

as i said, i managed to lose my 7 times

my stacks*

i was just so frustrated by how fast i got back up to like 10 stacks every time

[normal spear]

hey when's it the best time to sundering roar?

[olive hare]

Mustve been some abysmal dps mates if you needed that many resets. Just checked my +17 SR, that pull lasted 45 seconds and they're no blasters by any means. I mean after third boss and rp everyone should have their cds ready to roll.

But also, you should have everything up as well and not just drop dead on a 10 stack of fiery talons. Went up to 25 by rolling my stuff before I felt like I needed a reset. Are you sure you had a defensive rolling on each of those shears?

[wild bloom]

i have 3 defensives i got way more shears

[olive hare]

Thats sus. I took exactly 2 shears on that 2+3 pull

Have a log to share?

[wild bloom]

nah sadly

[chrome gulch]

You don't have to do everything there

Especially on a 17

Can just split and ST the bladetalon and prob u are still fine

[random marsh]

same problem I had with my bear. Started pulling the right side instead and now on my 20s. Pulling right side does not give u the fire bleed. Downside is it gives more damage on the party but hey, at least its not your problem anymore.

[solemn crane]

Why I flop so hard after first boss skyreach

The magic damage

[void magnet]

you are standstillmaxxing instead of movingmaxxing

[solemn crane]

Duuude

So true

I guess I just gotta move max all the time there

[void magnet]

yes be movepilled on that pull and ccpilled to drop that sub5 fire bleed

[vapid forum]

yum

[covert stone]

You need to kite to reset your stack. Hard focus one adept will reset the stacks by themself. Curse of weakness reset the stack too. One stun reset stacks. You can reset stack yourself with: roar speed, cat speed (with a def on), typhon, vortex etc. Do not go above 10 and it’s gg. Just put a skull on one adept.

[brazen helm]

on a razeless dotc build does manglemaxxing worth it with Harnessed Rage or should i be a resilient to magic damage like a chad with Ursol's Warding? Or even Bramblemaxx?

[covert stone]

Most of pugs do the mistake to hard focus the big add but it’s actually one of the two adept the high high priority.

[harsh willow]

def going to be a dumb question but how do i get moonkin form as guardian for hotw?

[harsh willow]

blessed

[zinc oar]

gmorning, old guardian coming back to the game. Is it true that our rotation is only 2 buttons noW?

[silk zephyr]

somestimes you press a 3rd button

not often tho

[zinc oar]

i saw a method player using mangle from time to time, is that the 3rd button?

so the tier set bonus becomes meaningless

[covert stone]

I use Mangle to generate extra rage for frenzy regen or battle rez. I put iron fur macro on all the spells. No problems in 20+ so far

Too old to spam ironfur

https://tenor.com/view/keymash-gif-23003999

[zinc oar]

so thrash + moonfire spam

[covert stone]

Pretty much yea