guardian

[outer cave]

Dwarf druids in 12.0.7??

[hasty lagoon]

When should I be send sundering roar? whenever I am at 5 thrash stats so I can start stacking more? or even before?

[shut jasper]

on the sims making it send it on cd (as long as thrash is on cd) was a noticeable gain over holding to 5 stacks

[high quartz]

I died on the second pull of skyreach on a 19 yesterday, do I need to do anything special to live that. I may have just played it bad

[fallen robin]

Watch your Shears usually. What did your log say?

[high quartz]

I forgot to log it but I basically got meleed done after shear, am I supposed to typhoon things and kite a bit after I get sheared? Or just make sure I have good iron furs rolling

[violet holly]

most likely ironfur dropped or you forgot to use another defensive after shear

[high quartz]

Thanks

[rustic kestrel]

Shear hits very hard if you dont have a defensive up for the initial hit

so if you take it raw with other damage going out, you're going to flop

[violet holly]

and kite/typhoon is most likely situational

[olive compass]

its like the hardest pull of the dungeon to live imo

just use SI / bark on shears

and then your incarn should ocme back up and you should be fine

[outer cave]

This might be a dumb question but when ur moon bear and have all your cds available is this correct?

Wild charge
Thrash
Lunar beam
Incarn
Thrash
Talent that resets Thrash
Thrash
Shift cat form
Hotw
Bear form
Thrash
Moonfire

[shut jasper]

prob hotw before incarn

[rustic kestrel]

theres no point in sundering roaring in incarn below 5 stacks

[shut jasper]

also want to get thrash on CD before incarn

[shut jasper]

it's a gain on sims

[rustic kestrel]

on a fresh pull i dont see how

its not giving you an extra thrash while in incarn

[olive compass]

yea but it lets you uncap your thrashes

you'll reach 10 stacks anyway

[shut jasper]

delays the next usage

and if you do that consistently you might miss some

[rustic kestrel]

hmm

[shut jasper]

defensively waiting is prob best but yeah

[outer cave]

So is thos better?

Wild charge
Thrash
Lunar beam
Cat form
Hotw
Bear form
Thrash
Incarn
Thrash
Talent that resets Thrash
Thrash
Moonfire

[olive compass]

in m+ realistically you won't be able to hotw in a big pack

[outer cave]

Agree. Ok considering hotw is conditional is it right now? Im actually not even tracking how many thrash stacks atm. Even without hotw that is 9 gcds until I first press moonfire

[coral rampart]

I wouldnt wild charge, just pull with moonfire from distance, thrash when it connects, and bark also when it connects if it's a big pull - u'll get it back after incarn

naked wild charge is a good way to die

[olive compass]

what key level are we talking about here

because in 19+

if you engage a pack without bark or lb/si

you will just get slammed intantly

[outer cave]

Yes ofc need to use bark and surv instincts im just asking about "dps rotation"

[olive compass]

dps rotation is thrash on cd

fill with mf and use lunar beam on cd when you have it

dont make a list of what you should press and when

[cinder oracle]

can bear be back shot

[olive compass]

its a priority thing

[outer cave]

Okay thats great but when you have multiple things that are used on cd there must be an order because they are mutually exclusive (cant push both same time)

[cinder oracle]

i am being told both ways

[olive compass]

lb>thrash

thats it

one of them lets you live

[outer cave]

Incarn? Thrash reset talent?

[olive compass]

well think about it yea

which one of these is the most powerful

it just goes in order

[rustic kestrel]

You do not take bonus damage from hits, but you cannot dodge from behind, meaning you will take more damage on average

[outer cave]

So is this better?

Moonfire
Thrash
Lunar beam
Cat form/hotw/bear (if not in aoe)
Thrash
Incarn
Thrash
Talent that resets Thrash
Thrash
Moonfire

[red knoll]

Bear has no special benefit vs back shots

Other than that they just dont parry or block anyways

You still shouldn't be taking them

[outer cave]

Pretty sure bear can block/parry from back but nlt dodge

[olive compass]

assuming this is a pure i dont need to gather pack type of thing its probably fine yea

[red knoll]

Bear cant block or parry at all

[rustic kestrel]

Bear cannot parry or block so idk what you're on about lol

[red knoll]

Wtf

Blocking is exclusive to holding a shield

If youre not holding a shield youre not blocking

[outer cave]

Ohh idk why I read in pwar disc that bear suffers the least of the tanks when they are backshot then

[rustic kestrel]

..because they dont take bonus damage

they just cant dodge

[red knoll]

I mean i dont think any class takes bonus damahe

From the back

[olive compass]

monk doesnt stazgger

so its an instant kill

[rustic kestrel]

im just phrasing it in a way that makes sense

[red knoll]

Yeah

Im pretty sure stagger works

For back shots

Unless its built into dodge somehow

Monk just has no health

So most of their mitigation is dodging every other attack

[outer cave]

Monk cant dodge when backshot. Pwar cant block.

[red knoll]

Can Monks parry

I forget

They technically use a weapon

[sharp gale]

i know ive killed my brew tank sometimes when i typhoon in emergency situations and they end up getting backshot'd

[red knoll]

Yeah

Cuz again

They have a dps health pool

Lol

[olive compass]

yea

this is the most infuriating thing ive ever suffered in my life

druids & evokers pressing knock when theres no need

[outer cave]

Even if monk is backshot it still goes to stagger

[red knoll]

Even worse

Shamans

Shamans knocking

[olive compass]

never had a shaman press

[red knoll]

Is the worst war crime

[olive compass]

because im not an idiot who plays with shamans

ez

[rustic kestrel]

My monk has 3% parry

big gaming

[red knoll]

Yeah they technically can parry

Its just not high

[olive compass]

parry/dodge

[red knoll]

Im pretty sure parry and dodge share a dr tho

Unlike block

[daring nymph]

CgGA8cL7tpvige+kkmGM9zUPWDAAAAAAAAAAAgZmZmlxMjZWMLzwMLLDMbDGNRmZWmZmZmlxMMAAAAAGMjNDYZbmBjZZAMFAAAYDz8AALmBDYxCAzMAG

[trim plaza]

okay so u run EF too

i was so confused where i put this 1 talent FoN or moonless or EF

[outer cave]

Why does icy veins m+ ec talent say to use starlight conduit?

[red knoll]

Its like

Okay

Its technically a dps gain

[outer cave]

How does ec benefit from it? None of those abilities are being cast?

[rustic kestrel]

thrash starsurge

so its like

fuckin .1% dmg

[violet holly]

number going up 📈

[red knoll]

You lose 1-2 utility/defensive nodes for it

Its not worth it at all

But you can take it

[violet holly]

best defense is killing it faster

.1% faster

[outer cave]

Ohh found it

[rustic kestrel]

tbf i dont know the actual number

but its gotta be ass

lets find out

[red knoll]

I think it is like 1%

[rustic kestrel]

lets check the log of NA's first 23

[red knoll]

Are we still that far behind

Capitalism debuff

[rustic kestrel]

omg

its even worse than i thought

121 dps

LOOOL

[red knoll]

Is he running the talent

[rustic kestrel]

no i just added 5% to starsurge damage

thats how much he would have gained

121 dps on top of his 147,720.7 dps

[outer cave]

Would rather take a point into matted fur or perfectly toned instincts?

[red knoll]

So ur saying it did do damage

PHI is kinda baf

Bad

It just covers bad play mostly

Matted is better

[oblique moat]

they aren't even competing talents though

[red knoll]

At no point should you be dipping below 40% so often that a 30 sec cd matters

[outer cave]

Can drop point from starsurge that does 100 dps and instead do 2/2 matted fur? Not sure if that would be prevented bc not enough points used higher up

[red knoll]

They are because we dont take fluid form in ec

And that just goes literally anywhere else

[oblique moat]

i like my lycara speed

[outer cave]

Also I feel like this magic dr shouldn't always be skipped or is it a bad/bait talent too?

[red knoll]

Its kinda okay

[rustic kestrel]

situational

[red knoll]

Its a non zero amount of mitigation

But its also close to 0

So

[outer cave]

Does it ever make sense to use this on the mage so he stop dying all the time?

[red knoll]

If you have a mage yes

You should absolutely use it on him

Or an ele shaman

Hunter/evoker too

[outer cave]

I got answer why ppl say bear suffers the least

[sleek latch]

Sym relationship is a 1k hps, 90% overheal talent its not saving anyone from anything.

[shut jasper]

why do people still think hunters are squishy, tankier than dps warr or rogue nowadays

[rustic kestrel]

the same reason people think haste vers is our best stats

[red knoll]

Thats not true lol

Dps warriors are still the tankiest dps in the game

Wdt

[rustic kestrel]

they just regurgitate what they hear for years at a time

I dont thinkhunters tankier than dps warrior

but they are tanky now

[red knoll]

Theyre fine

But most are garbage

[shut jasper]

calling anything but dk the tankiest dps is silly

[red knoll]

So they squishy

Dk is not as tanky as warrior

Haven't been for a minute

Warriors have more stam and self healing

[shut jasper]

warrior more stamina?

in what planet?

[rustic kestrel]

ams nullifies every dangerous ability in the game

[red knoll]

Yes

Warrior has had more stam since last season my guy

Dk stam got turbo hit last season

[trim plaza]

fury is oemga tanky if u let him hit mobs for enrage, if not its paper

[shut jasper]

dk still has 12% and warr has 10

[red knoll]

Warrior has several stam talents

[shut jasper]

where?

[exotic shore]

brand new gdruid just dinged, what 10s should I use bonus rolls on?

WS?

[red knoll]

Hero talents

[shut jasper]

the difference in hp is smaller than I thought but looking at a dk and warr with same ilvl the dk has a bit more hp

[shut jasper]

no?

fury gets a bit extra cause second 2h

[hazy mural]

yes, if ur going to do M+ on it, WS has the best loot for the easiest way to spend the rolls

can pretty much use every single piece u get, just make sure ur in tank mode

[red knoll]

Bro what

Mountain thane literally has 5% stam

Also defensive stance 2nd best defensive in the game

Behind bear

[shut jasper]

ams is practically an outright immunity

and will of the necropolis is still broken

[mild goblet]

do druids have anything to help with the gargoyls in POS? im used to being a monk and helping the healer with tiger's lust

[red knoll]

No

They can release themselves

[shut jasper]

but yeah fury does have more stam, thought they were played a lot less in high keys compared to arms

[red knoll]

Thats it

Arms is tanky because of DBTS

But not as tanky as fury

[hazy mural]

if ur going meta group u usually have a monk or if u dont, a ret pala with sham healer so should always have a freedom for it

[mild goblet]

yeah makes sense

[desert pecan]

Any way to see what raidbots is casting?
Showing dotc apex 60k more dps on 10targets thanEC Nopex

Actual gameplay im very similar maybe within 10k dps of each spec

[oblique moat]

i don't think 10target sims will tell you anything

[desert pecan]

Even 5 it’s still way above ec

Regardless, is there a way to see what raidbots is casting

Or is it just blind faith?

[rustic kestrel]

You can see if you do a quicksim

[copper hornet]

or any sim with low enough actor count to have an html report

[olive hare]

A good starting point to talk about your sim results would be to share the links. In general there shouldnt be such a gap, no.

[vestal escarp]

heyyy
do I need a crafted weapon with hunt if I want to craft hunt trinket?

the darkmoon one

or it is fine on its own?

[raven briar]

Can anyone tell me if I walk out from Lunar Beam do I lose any benefit?

[open trail]

How do i take off mangle proc from blizzard ui?

Its in front of my unitframes

[brazen tinsel]

put it on 0%

but then all your blizz ui procs are gone

[olive hare]

Both do work on their own, having a craft weapon with hunt on top of the trinket just gives a little extra dps. But its not really worth building those over using a mythic weapon, two generic mythic dps trinkets and going for either bracers+back with arcano or one arcano item + loa ring.

[open trail]

Oh man

What are the blizz ui procs anyway?

[brazen tinsel]

for bear?

gore, gg, tset

[vestal escarp]

dont have a second mythic trinket, so just gonna craft hunt for a week

[olive hare]

Your positioning doesnt matter, you'll still get all the LB benefits. You'll loose the damage ofc if you walk away and the mobs follow you, LB targets a mob, but remains stationary.

[olive hare]

Just do it then. But still sim first, some heroic trinkets could rival a 285 darkmoon dominion. Like hero alnseer for example.

[shut jasper]

not being able to set this per class/spec or character is criminal

[brazen tinsel]

true

[lime apex]

Do ever ever press maul right now in m+ ?

Feels worthless to press, even mangle feels meaningless out of banking for ironfure

[twilit drum]

Skyreach +17, is it reasonable to pull all 3 trash packs at the same time in 2nd boss' room? (Robot solar beam boss)

[topaz sparrow]

remember when we had to remind people to press maul

[twilit drum]

Personally I only use it on boss fights where I don't need the protection and I'm worried about the timer.

Eg 2nd boss of AA.

[ancient mountain]

yo one of my friend who raid mythic told me its ok to macro iron fur to basic rotation, just wanna verify this cause it sounds sus

[merry quest]

your friends dumb

[sleek latch]

It’s okay if your alternative is never pressing it

[ancient mountain]

lol

@merry questcan i get any more lines on why its bad

i wanna throw this at him

[mild goblet]

Can someone help me understand why it’s dumb? In the nopex build are your only rage spenders iron fur and frenzie regen?

[sharp kiln]

Correct me if im wrong, but keeping control of how many stacks and when you have them is more important than just dumping rage via rotation

[brazen tinsel]

Because you don't always want to spend your rage brainlessly

[sleek latch]

Because I'd rather pool rage to when mobs are hitting me then casting iron while 70% of the pack is chasing after me or its dead

[brazen tinsel]

Like sometimes you need to CR, or you're pooling some rage for a mechanic or you want to keep rage at the end of a pull to have IF rolling immediately in the next one

It's okay to macro IF with nopex but it's definitely not good

[onyx sonnet]

You can get away with it and time keys up to a very high level, but it’s also a sub optimal play style. Better to control when you’re spending, however if you can’t/don’t want to handle the cognitive load just macro it, ensure you’re never letting rage cap, and you’ll still be fine.

[mild goblet]

Interesting okay I mean fair, I’ve played with it macro’d cause I heard it’s fine in a video when I first learned guardian nopex (this is my first time playing guardian).

I can start learning to have it as its own button.

Are we spending rage on anything other than IF and FR?

[lyric wraith]

Algethar 21-22, does bear have to send incarn on the burn?

or can they save it for next pull?

just bricked 2 to not doing enough damage to kill the boss

[sharp kiln]

Maul if you dont need the IF on ST (Bosses)

[lyric wraith]

wondering if i need to send so its like an extra 3-5 mil on boss

[brazen tinsel]

I definitely save incarn at the end of the boss

[lyric wraith]

i sent incarn 1 on the haste phase coz i can max it out hard and then have it up for next pull

but i could send on pull and then send on burn, it just means i go into the pull after boss with no incarn

[brazen tinsel]

Yeah I wouldn't do that

Next pull is nasty assuming you're doing the meta pull

[lyric wraith]

yeah its worm into the 4

i can do it without incarn but incarn makes it so much easier

and then it can come back up a little into the next pull

[brazen tinsel]

CR and in theory you can maul a bit on ST but it's pretty w/e

[mild goblet]

Sorry, I’m not as familiar what is CR?

[mild goblet]

What is the meta pull? I’ve been out of the loop on that area. I usually skip the first Ravager then kite the second one to the bridge pack

[brazen tinsel]

Combat rezz

Rebirth or w/e it's called for bear

[brazen tinsel]

Ravager with the two axes + 4 "worms" (foragers iirc?) into the bridge pack

[mild goblet]

Oh that costs Rage? I feel dumb I’ve never noticed

[brazen tinsel]

Yeah 30

But that's a high key pull

You def don't need that for lower keys

[mild goblet]

Okay yeah that’s the pull I’ve been doing, nice.

[merry quest]

theres a smattering of reasons here #1463934154935894128 message

throw the classic not being able to cast your combat res on top of those too along with some more thrown around if you search back for this topic

[charred ice]

Hello fellow Bears, I need some help. I´m timing m+19, but my dmg is quite bad... like real bad. I know I spam a lot of FR to shield myself to help the healer and kite the Axes without CD´s in AA from time to time. But my grey parse bugs me, can someone tell me what I´m doing wrong. I guess I should press Trash better on CD, since there is not much in our "rotation" going on. Will post a log below

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LYxT9GXCjm1yvbqz?type=damage-done&fight=13

[sinful nexus]

Macroing ironfur to thrash so instead of doing 100k DPS single target I do 40k because I'm really smart btw what are my dps doing trolling

[red knoll]

Tbf the spec does 40k st either way

Cuz you dont take any fucking damage for st

[sinful nexus]

?

I did 100k DPS single target litterally yesterday

[red knoll]

As no apex?

Thats not even possible lol

[ashen ether]

Lol surely on a 30s boss with apex dotc right

[near nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-out-loud-laugh-ridiculous-hilarious-lolz-gif-17376550074772904877

[deep nacelle]

so they saw what happened last time and said "you know what?, i bet we can get bear nerfed even more"

[steel turret]

might as well join before ts gets nerfed to the ground

[fathom lotus]

does lunar beam effect hotw ff?

[red knoll]

Ya

[fallen isle]

If i'm sufficiently hasted that i can press only thrash in incarn, do i still press moonfire on gg proc

[red knoll]

How much haste does that even require

I dont think thats achievable outside lust

[quaint pond]

you'd need to get over 100% haste so your gcd bottoms out

[red knoll]

So like

Not really realistic

[quaint pond]

otherwise your gcd will scale with your thrash cd so nothing changes

[red knoll]

You might get close with a bunch of procs on top of lust and pi

But like

[quaint pond]

too bad you don't have 10% haste from inc anymore

actually i guess you could hit it right now with pot

you'd need 1242 haste rating + lust + pi

[fallen isle]

i think i get it with emberwing + lust?

or close to it

[fallen robin]

I've definitely had some moments with Heart of Wind + Lust where it feels like Thrash CD is non-existent or something is bugging

[quaint pond]

you'd need something like 2500 rating if you didn't have PI

maybe possible with everything proccing + reckless + flask?

[fallen isle]

does lust 1.3 multiplier apply last?

like (base + flask + trinket) * 1.3?

[quaint pond]

theyre' all multipliers

[fallen isle]

i think im at 2450 in lust

[red knoll]

Aren't they additive towards each other though

[quaint pond]

wel lthat calculation is correct, since rating != haste

all haste effects are multiplicative

ratings are additive

[serene quest]

Do you guys send barkskin on cd in trash pulls?

[red knoll]

Like PI and lust arent 30%×25% are they

Or whatever PI is these days

Like lust gives you a flat 30% haste right

Or is it multiplied by your rating

[fallen isle]

ok im kinda new to the game and don't know exactly how haste works - does it both reduce the cd of abilities AND reduce gcd by the same amount so your rotation stays the same - until gcd hits a minimum after which your rotation might change? and this applies to all classes?

[ripe pulsar]

If you were a fresh 90 with all (i think) 10 bonus rolls, what order / dungeons would people recommend using them on? Dreamgrove compendium has Agility > Mastery > Vers > Haste/Crit but other places have almost the reverse so not sure what dungs / secondary stat items to aim at

[fallen isle]

windspire was good i think

got nice trinks

[jade quest]

Hey guys, a friend is telling me that with new builds we dont ever press maul, is that correct?

[outer cave]

Got dang bear managing to dodge nerfs week after week

[sharp kiln]

RIngs from Nexus or Seat

Both are good

Nexus is worse stats but more dps, Seat is better stats and more surv

Just coz Vers> Mas iirc

[carmine sandal]

Crit stacking

[lyric wraith]

is there a less aggressive version of this that'll time seat 21?

for meta comp

[misty vector]

thats what we did in 23 and it is defo way way way more chill and prolly not even slower @lyric wraith

5 is chained into 6 when subj. dies

[lyric wraith]

Thanks, for some reason NA is so fixated on andy's route and it was a nightmare trying to execute

Pull 11, do you kill casters or just pull it to the next pack right away?

assuming its together since its only 4 kicks

[misty vector]

Pull it, its not real casters

exactly

[lyric wraith]

yea

[misty vector]

can also purge it if kicks are missed

[jaunty dragon]

If you have a DH you can purge it also

[lyric wraith]

that looks a lot more manageable than spam adepts with champs into rift guy

[jaunty dragon]

Or whoever can purge

[hazy mural]

how do u do pull 11 there btw? or is that a chain?

[misty vector]

You just walk forward

It looks tighter on MDT then it is ingame

[hazy mural]

ahhh

mainly wary about the body of water between em

[vernal fog]

how much of a time save is it not pulling the corner pack in the third boss room of seat

i feel like everyone plays wierd because they are paranoid of it

[hazy mural]

guessing its more of a headache save because of how nasty that pack is with the double elementals

[limber current]

Are theise routes relying on a loc skip? Or how do you get from pull 11 to 12?

[craggy ridge]

Aug rescue one player with mount that has 2 seats and druid can charge in humanoid form

There are other ways aswell

[limber current]

Ah ty!

[grand plinth]

The bigger issue is it demands serious healer cds

and then you dont have them for boss

[oblique moat]

that's wild LMAO

[twilit drum]

Reinforced Fur vs Bristling Fur for high M+ keys?

[narrow parrot]

RF everyday including Sundays and public holidays

[primal spruce]

hey guys question has anyone tested to see if the tech for the 1st boss in skyreach still works unlike the 3rd boss they patched?

[cyan pebble]

Still doable

[olive hare]

Sadly it is. Stopped tanking the boss that way after experiencing first hand how shitty it is for real melee specs.

[cinder oracle]

anyone able to help me by looking at this log my dps and hps is low and i dont know how to improve

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BYNDyv7ZAz9mfR8L?fight=31&type=damage-done&source=2

[exotic shore]

Are you guys doing an IF and MF macro to cast both at the same time?

[cinder oracle]

i was recently told to

[exotic shore]

Just looking at logs and it’s like thrash, IF, MF over and over and over during incarn

[cinder oracle]

yea i was looking at logs and i thought that is what people are doing rotation wise

[exotic shore]

So the add always spawns behind the tank right? What if you aren’t on the spike but your but is hanging over the edge? Does it still wipe the group if it falls?

[weary trout]

So I'm new to guardian this season, tanking for my groups alt runs is it reasonable to macro ironfur into other abilities? And if so what buttons are best to macro it with?

[exotic shore]

Depends on what your running

If your running the EC build then sure

Otherwise I probably wouldn’t

[weary trout]

Im primarily tanking in keys playing elune's chosen running the no apex build with sundering roar right now

[exotic shore]

Ya that’s what I just asked about above, macro it to moonfire

Similar to ignore pain and shield slam on prot warrior

It’s off the gcd and MF is 1gcd so it goes well together IMO

[weary trout]

Cool thank you

[exotic shore]

I haven’t tried it yet but I assume you put IF first in the macro

[versed jacinth]

any tips on skyreach with those damn adds going to last boss. I feel like im running for my life. Not even crazy high keys just starting 18s

[olive hare]

Nothing fancy. Check the shears with a defensive always, and look out for the fiery talon debuff to reset on 4-5 stacks. Any AoE stun, typhoon or or movementspeed buff will do the trick.

I also like to use NR in that dungeon, since LB+Frenzied can serve as an extra pseudo defensive.

[sleek lintel]

need 2 more drops from WRS and done

1 if I get the neck before the emberwing trinket which looks less useful.

[stiff phoenix]

Help a noob out what’s NR and LB

[stiff phoenix]

I’m only running 15s rn but I found my performance significantly improved by removing my macro. Have a lot more rage to spend on FR as needed.

[olive hare]

NR = natural resilience, the talent which lets excessive FR healing shield you for up to 30% max hp. LB = Lunar Beam

[stiff phoenix]

Ah tyty

[frigid coral]

I just linked my route in a 19 AA and got insta kicked Is this too slow for a 19?

[gleaming gulch]

Yes

[frigid coral]

When I did larger pulls I got flamed in 18s

I guess it's how that goes

[unborn dock]

Totally fine the route, but maybe if you had a rogue or demo they wanted some kind of skip at the end idk

[stiff phoenix]

6/7 and 12/13 maybe?

Wait

Idk

What % is it

[hazy mural]

theres not much variation with AA simple routes, think they probably wanted some high key tech route or something, likely they fail to fail mechanics anyways xD

[violet perch]

This is the route I did in a 17 and the time felt nice and comfy. Idk if I'd try 1st pull this way if we didn't have an aug tho

[torn monolith]

hello any tips for druid gurdian im new to tanking lol

[frigid coral]

Wdym? you cannot really group 12 13..

[frigid coral]

Didn't have either Idk

[frigid coral]

Yeahh I did that with entire platform vexamus upon request even assigned interrupts and then someone did an early AoE stun ppl used ints and we wiped

Idk man like shit gets so toxic rn

We all used our stuns that we could but now healer starts deflecting

okay

[latent oracle]

[hazy mural]

[frigid coral]

Same guy

I guess I'll queue up some 10s

[stiff phoenix]

Yeah I mis saw until I zoomed in I thought you separated the two just outside and the two at door, didn’t realise it excluded the two just outside

[hazy mural]

ppl dont really look inward in pugs... defense mechanism or something

[frigid coral]

Yeah I mean this was one of the big circles on first big purp guy after 1st boss

Impressive

All fine, happens but

The deflecting is wild

Thats what gets me

[jaunty dragon]

Is running a crafted haste/vers ring better to replace the crit/haste ring from nexus? it will break the set

[olive hare]

Sim it

[steel turret]

Any tips appreciated and Should i use crit flask? Trying to push some 17's just started tanking last week.

[olive hare]

Same thing, let raidbots handle the decision. Though yeah, given how low your gear crit is - I think critflask will be the winner.

Changing the missives from haste+vers to haste+mast/crit would also be a little better. Sadly a lot of the video guides out there act like its super crucial to get your vers up, which isnt true, not even for highkeys.

[pine thistle]

Hey. Is there a way to see the cooldown of my team mates in Keys ? Like défensive or offensive

[stiff phoenix]

I’ve been using Pete’s defensive history it also tracks some offensives. I think others use mini cc as well but have heard it can be unreliable depending on the patch

Is WCL on the fritz for anyone else?

[clear lark]

Hello, in Seat when I play Adept (tank buster/knock) with Champions, I noticed that if I spam charge as I get knocked, it doesn't go off before the Champions charge me. However, if I use charge like half a second after, it does go off before they charge me.
Does anyone know if this is a spell queue window issue or if that's just how it is?
Thank you very much for any info! ❤️

[young blade]

Hey gang anyone know when dps says to you as tank you could funnel what those he means go to cat or moonkin form ?

[olive compass]

funnel means you bring more adds to a boss

[jovial mauve]

what about this maisara guys? im just doing 106-107k https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8DPLfwvCqnBpjWV4?fight=1&type=damage-done

what can i improve?

[young blade]

thank you

[trim plaza]

does this read u ahve 84% uptime on ironfur or am i looking this wrong

[jovial mauve]

too low?

also 92% bear form

[trim plaza]

nvm i looked it wrong

actually ye

IF uptime should be atleast over 90%

[jovial mauve]

its on macro so..

idk hahah

if i have to manually press IF id play another class tbh

u can do it with vdh DS, monk PB, pala SotR... but druid and warr are a pain for me

[trim plaza]

im too used to press it manually since BFA, muscle memory at this point xd

[jovial mauve]

cant find any binding where ignore pair or ironfur cast feels confortable

[trim plaza]

but dmg, idk i dont see any huge problems, sure u have only 11 sundering casts, pretty sure u could have few more easily

[trim plaza]

but why? xd, they are like absolute same when u think about it xd

im checking some random logs from my druid and i my average IF uptime is like 94%

some run had 90%

[jovial mauve]

nah u press SotR every 3 globals or something like that, and u dont literally spam DS or PB

[trim plaza]

also what i realize

cause u dont use mangle at all, u should have way more uptime on LB, u have lower LB uptime than me and i use mangle alot

[pastel dagger]

yo Feather Mythic oder Gaze HC with Avoidance

[trim plaza]

whats ur other trinket

[pastel dagger]

Wind

[trim plaza]

gaze with either of those

[pastel dagger]

ty m8

[trim plaza]

but sim if u are not sure

feather boosts ur incarn windows, heart is full passive 0 brain needed xd

what u prefer

[jovial mauve]

but i lunarbeam on cd idk...

[trim plaza]

u can push it over 50% atleast as only trash/moonfire combination

[unborn dock]

Tbh if you are already running the degen 3 button build and you have to macro ironfur you might as well use the 1 button blizz rotation. It's best to get used to a keybind asap

[brisk tundra]

what two talents should i drop if i wanna pick up moonkin form for first pull of AA?

[trim plaza]

second honest instict and 4% healing taken increased i almost never use

[brisk tundra]

aight ty

[trim plaza]

but AA and Pit are prob only ones where i use moonkin heart

actually seat too

[main solstice]

haste / versa still bis stats for no apex

?

[trim plaza]

all stats good, for no apex just haste is more preferred, i have also seen people stacking crit instead of vers so its w/e

okay now that i look these logs in "higher" keys, i dont see huge improvement in many logs LB uptime between no mangle logs and mangle logs with 100-300 casts, lol

[olive hare]

You mean no mangle logs vs bry logs?

[trim plaza]

lets say bulok 20, brother has 51% uptime and still pressing alot of mangle, then i check some logs without any presses->47% sub

[trim plaza]

nah but forreal i dont see marginally almost no difference in these

okay now i found 1 with 60% uptime, but like

not that everyone has even close to that much % in it

[hidden cloak]

is focus kick a bit dodgy with skull bash? feel like sometimes im pressing it and it doesnt go off. not sure if its to do with distance

[trim plaza]

should not matter expect if u are far away

[merry quest]

are you using a macro for kick or just the base spell?

[unborn dock]

Target needs to be in front I think for it to work

[hidden cloak]

focus macro

#showtooltip Skull Bash
/cast [@focus,exists,nodead,harm] Skull Bash
/stopmacro [@focus,exists,nodead,harm]

[olive hare]

Bulok played no apex in 20 keys? Thought he wasnt having it for pushing.

[merry quest]

that macro will not kick if you do not have a focus

unless theres more to it

[high path]

Also skullbash is a bit iffy sometimes

[hidden cloak]

ye ik that, my focus is casting and sometimes it just doesnt go off. JUL might be onto something with direction im facing? never ran into this issue on other classes i play

[high path]

Since it's a charge

And a kick

[hidden cloak]

does the charge take a gcd? doubt it

[minor nest]

if you could be bothered to swap talents for seat last boss, would you go something like apex, and convoke with red moon? and EC or dotc?

[high path]

So if you're further you can have issues with pathfinding

It's not that common tho

[trim plaza]

nxp he said its almost must play ec there

[merry quest]

no, it's not that

[trim plaza]

DotC/moonless night apex and redmoon if u want totally minmax

[jovial mauve]

hahahah so funny bro

[olive hare]

Yeah that makes more sense. And explains the wonky uptime results.

[merry quest]

direction is the most likely

[hidden cloak]

yeah would make sense, will keep an eye on that. cheers

[merry quest]

i only tend to have issues with the charge pathing if there's elevation involved but still something to watch

[high path]

That or displacement, it's a bit weird when you go from the distance where you start charging, to when it's just a kick

[pastel silo]

Hey fellas, im new playing bear and Im wondering if there is some macro that I should use like thrash + moonfire (idk if its doable) or with iron fur etc

[unborn dock]

You can macro ironfur to thrash or moonfire as it's off the gcd, but it's just bad, you already have just 3 buttons to press, get used to a keybind for ironfur asap

[jovial mauve]

is not about the number of buttons

i cant find any confortable binding for ironfur

[unborn dock]

I use the keybind on my mouse

[jovial mauve]

i hate ironfur and ignore pain type of spammable defensives

me too and my thumb is hurting

[pastel silo]

So I cant do thrash + moonfire macro right?

[unborn dock]

No

[pastel silo]

Ok tyvm, another question Is there any Channel to ask log review for m+? i was playing vengeance DH and there is one

On dh disc I mean, but I cant find here

[rotund maple]

cat here

are y'all really spamming moonfire -> thrash -> ironfur? Is that the whole rotation? Am I doing this right?

I moonfire, thrash, ironfur, and pop a big coolie for big hits?

[unborn dock]

Thrash moonfire and ironfur, but yes sadly, but you can also play apex it's pretty fun tbh

[jovial mauve]

is that absurdly ez that became funny tbh

[trim plaza]

some people finds it fun, im trying to not fall asleep playing noapex xd

[jovial mauve]

is like bro look any r1 key, anytime thay are 40+rage they ironfur

the only bad thing about macro ironfur is to hold rage for the next pack

[rotund maple]

Just making sure I'm doing this right. Trying to learn how to tank

[jovial mauve]

thats all

hold rage to ironfur again

[trim plaza]

most important is trash on cd, its ur prio button, u can fill with moonfires to reduce beam cdr and cast that also on cd, expect if pack has like 2% hp left, better to save next pull, mangle if u need rage or if u just want to press it for feels, keep ironfur running always

[unborn dock]

Most important part is learning DJ mechanics tbh, don't be the bear in a 17 discovering that champions in seat charge after you typhoon them. Or bears writing "healer ?" After getting a beatdown from adepts of the dawn in sky reach

[rotund maple]

I know enough about those from flaming my tanks.

[trim plaza]

or if u need to cr someone and u keep pressing trash and all rage goes into IF

i have seen that, its funny

[jovial mauve]

if mangle is a dps loss u can hold it for that situation

[rotund maple]

wtf bears are actually helpful. In Feral chat when someone asks a question we tell them check the pins or dreamgrove.gg then spam cat gifs

[jovial mauve]

if we dont use maul we can macro ironfur, i bet many world first key bears use it on macro

[trim plaza]

yes they do, but its never recommended

ever

[jovial mauve]

u can preach the perfectly discord theorycrafting way to play

but we can do a 24 with ironfur macroed

so..

[trim plaza]

its not about perfectly playing xd, like i have been pressing ironfur since BFA so i dont even realize anymore that im using it, comes from muscle memory

[unborn dock]

Yes because you have teammates that play the game, you don't have to bres 2 DPS and a healer on the emberwing boss in Windrunner spire

[jovial mauve]

thats why bear and warr are my last fav tanks

[unborn dock]

They play a completely different game then you

If your healer dies, it's best you can bres him fast, idk if your DPS can wait 10 sec for you to get 2 mangles in to cast a bres

[jovial mauve]

if i could macro ignore pain maybe id play prot war xd

[noble ledge]

That being said I feel like Ignore Pain with the current tracking feature built in is even easier to manage than the IF stacks

[trim plaza]

but is it about that or just that u are not willing to learn/lazy?, dont want to sound rude but like wtf

[jovial mauve]

its because i cant find a confortable keybinding for if/ip

[trim plaza]

like how people can play other tanks if they cant manage basic ironfur, ESPECIALLY with this noapex setting

[noble ledge]

( Ignoring the current state where you spam IF obvs )

[jovial mauve]

it doesnt matter the number of buttons in the rotation or the years id practice with those specs

[trim plaza]

even if u play apex, u still use it alot xd

[merry quest]

because most tanks rn have their mitigation be (effectively) passive

[half surge]

bind IF to mouse wheel

[merry quest]

or at least as a single spender

[jovial mauve]

i dont like the spammable defensives like if/ip

[noble ledge]

But I think binding IF for you will be a 0 problem, because if bear ever plays other way than this, you will probably dislike the stack management enough to not want to play Guardian anymore

So just macro it if you want

[trim plaza]

i eman true, but as a bdk/pala/bear player i find blood boneshield management way worse than IF usage like boneshield is THE worst gameplay this game has to offer

[jovial mauve]

nah, i dont feel annoying to press DS on VDH, SotR on pala, marrowrend on bdk or PB with brew

its just ignore pain and ironfur

i dont like at all

[noble ledge]

Like ideally you could get comfortable with it but it sounds like you're here for the current gameplay people are doing

So I don't see the problem, just do it

[jovial mauve]

starts get aligned and bear is meta with a build that doesnt spend rage on maul so... let me macro ironfur xd

[merry quest]

oh for sure, but then again arent most pleb dk players just running deathbringer?

so realistically its not even a factor

[jovial mauve]

u are loosing like a 1% utility with bres or ironfur at the start of the pack, is not that important

[trim plaza]

some people just hates sanlayn, even when its 15% ahead of DB in everything xd

[jovial mauve]

u can even battleres

lol

[merry quest]

yeah, about right

but then you've got vengence which just macro spikes in, brew is entirely passive, ppal may as well be passive since its only the one spender to really worry about

[jovial mauve]

i dont mind the management, i just dont like to spam it out gcd, prob bdk is harder to manage but u dont spam marrowrend

[trim plaza]

absolutely not, u just sometimes reset it xd

expect in gather u press it few times to get boneshields going

[jovial mauve]

i repeat, is not about get used or the difficulty or how many buttons bear has

i just dont feel confortable pressing ironfur all the time

[noble ledge]

Is Ironfur CPM that high anymore? I feel like you can not even press it as much as we used to do before

I guess it is one of the higher side but how much?

Like do you have problem pressing the spender in Paladin, what is it called?

I feel it is very frequent there

[jovial mauve]

if i had to choose between maul/ironfur or ignorepain/revenge id never play bear seriously

everytime i have press ironfur or ignorepain feels like a dps loss

[half surge]

sotr

or shield of the righteous

[jovial mauve]

nope

[half surge]

or wog (world of glory)

[jovial mauve]

because u use it every 2-4 globals and its on gcd, u dont spam it

u only have to choose between SotR and WoG

and most of the times u use the free proc on WoG

[merry quest]

sotr is not on the gcd and at least during cds you're spamming that more

[jovial mauve]

ah true

mb

but SotR is dmg+defensive

all in the same global

u only WoG if u are low

its more intuitive

[unborn dock]

I think you should see ironfur like DS for dks, you need to also spam it every other time

[merry quest]

so its not really the spammyness - you just dont want the choice

[jovial mauve]

both, y

with dk doesnt feels that bad, u only need to refresh or add charges after many seconds

[trim plaza]

blood is all about not dropping stacks under 5

[merry quest]

ye, gain way too much from it

[olive hare]

Poor example, you never want to spam back to back DS.

[trim plaza]

he said every other

not spamming

[jovial mauve]

for vdh i feel like u because i dont play FtD and im used to manage DS since shadowlands

on prepatch dh discord ppl said that u have to macro DS

but i felt like having like 80-90% uptime without that talent and macro

[olive hare]

The statement was a little strange, spamming and weaving isnt exactly the same thing.

[trim plaza]

bdk its all about rotating boild/ds

and hs for generating things

thats why i liked vicious cycle, u got funnel dmg in incarn pressing mangle to 3 targets->more raze dmg

it was so good

[rotund maple]

Literally my second dungeon as a tank in my life and I was giving people big pulls and I never died and they're still so mean

[jovial mauve]

the dangerous part with bear is the start of the pack, thats why i understand u dont recommend to macro it

i only have IF macroed to moonfire

so i can press mangle if need extra rage

[unborn dock]

I didn't mean spam back to back but you probably need to press it every other gcd

[olive hare]

Loved it as well (probably because it made a non-weaving build viable for raid dps)

[trim plaza]

just barskin+LB and u are chillin

[jovial mauve]

yep

i try to hold barskin if the pack is about to die

[unborn dock]

Yeah DPS players expect tanks to know their shit 2 months into the season, but good thing about tanks you can brick and go next while they wait in lfg

[jovial mauve]

also FR gives u a bit of agro

[edgy merlin]

Fr doesnt generate aggro

Regrowth maybe a bit

[jovial mauve]

every healing generates agro

[edgy merlin]

Not fr

[jovial mauve]

what?

why? xd

[rotund maple]

The pull after 1st boss of pit I did the Lich solo because I knew I was about to three pack w/lust and they just flamed me for doing one singular small pull

[edgy merlin]

Unless they changed it from tww

[merry quest]

theres a fair few self heals with that tag

[trim plaza]

u can always pull the 3 smallies into it

[merry quest]

largely on tanks

[olive hare]

Yeah you do sadly, despite the recent buff DS just doesnt heal enough to get a decent bloodshield out.

[jovial mauve]

the spell by itself doesnt generates agro, but the games works like every heling should generates threat

[merry quest]

no

if it has that tag

[trim plaza]

as long as u funnel it with blood boil u are fine most of the times

[merry quest]

it wont generate threat

spells only generate threat based on the damage or healing that they do - that tag nullifies that

[unborn dock]

I mean you can pull the 3 smallies in with moonfire that are chilling a bit further. And bl on the boss is more value I feel, packs die too fast for the whole bloodlust value

[high path]

Most selfheal from tanks do not generate threat

[rotund maple]

I've seen it done both ways but I'm trying to get used to doing things the way they're done in 21s/22s since that's where I'm playing as a dps.

[jovial mauve]

oh nice to know

[trim plaza]

brother is saying everything i said XD

[high path]

There was a bug with monk up till .5

[trim plaza]

are u in my brain

[high path]

Where one of theirs was

[merry quest]

yeah that getting fixed was largely my fault

[high path]

And the had like

[merry quest]

it was the celestial flames healing thing

[high path]

Massive threat gen due to it

Ye

And that's why it's usually not generating

Imagine if uf or ef generated threat every time they did anything

You'd never loose threat on anything

[unborn dock]

Maybe

[trim plaza]

atleast it would save my mental about losing aggro to ONE HOT FROM HEALER

[merry quest]

because i asked the monk TCs if they knew why every single blob on p1 alleria was ignoring me entirely and beelinging for my brew, even after it was gripped under me

[high path]

And unfortunately

[merry quest]

and they got it fixed and immediately got hit with a wave of "have they changed threat?!?!" in peak

[high path]

Blizzard think threat is an engaging mini game

[trim plaza]

im fine with threat, im not fine with healers getting threat

that shit should have been gone long time ago

[unborn dock]

Only healers I lose aggro too are resto druids, they tend to swiftmend with all the hots on me at the start of packs and I run around like a chicken to gather the pack again

[trim plaza]

even mistweaver hots does it, lets say AA first pull without moonkin HoW, cause i cant instantly get aggro from far ones, they go straight to healer

[merry quest]

alternatively, if they insist on keeping threat as something people have to think about, every healer spec needs a fade-esque ability

but yes

its annoying

[high path]

Ye healing threat is dumb

Not being able to heal the tank while he gathers because

[unborn dock]

True but at least they insta die so I don't have to gather, resto druids stag form and run away

[jovial mauve]

btw i saw naowh reel/short about doing moonking hotw on 1st AA pack, but i checked all his AA and he never picks the moonkin form talent

[high path]

One fucking riptide causes threat to change is the dumbest thing

[trim plaza]

fun times yes

then instead of gathering pull nicely, tank has to run to healer to grab aggro

[unborn dock]

When I play rdruid and I get aggro I just wild charge to the tank with barkskin, I know running away isn't helping in the slightest

Good thing to play other roles, you actually learn so much more with a different perspective

[muted pulsar]

Since no one answered, no it's not flat. All % haste effects are a 1.(x%) multiplier so BL multiplies your haste by 1.3

If you have 30% haste before BL then with BL you'll have 69%

Not 60

[jovial mauve]

then if u get pi or something like that and also bl u get more than 30% haste from bl?

so the higher %haste u have the more bl gives u?

i thought it adds +30% to ur currently haste

[high path]

to add on to this btw

it gets you 69%

because you start at 100% haste

i know it sounds silly

but the hate you have is always 100% + w/e % you get from other things

so if you have 30% haste and you get pi + lust

the haste you'd get would be

130 * 1.3 * 1.2

[muted pulsar]

Oh yeah

It's a multiplier on 1.(your haste%) because your baseline is 100% haste

[muted pulsar]

Yes

That's also why the affix in SL s4 was very silly

Cause it gave % haste

Which was multiplicative

So you could get "baseline" 70-80% haste by the end of the dungeon

Was funny on BDK

And in high keys you'd gear high vers low haste because haste % is the only multiplicative source so it was better to get vers rating from gear and haste % from the affix rather than the other way around

[open trail]

I was looking at some logs from 22s and 23s. I hardly ever see gdruids pressing heart of the wild... and I was wondering why they are taking it if they are not using it. Is there a passive I don't know about?

[olive hare]

Look out for feral frenzy and starfall in their damage done breakdown, thats hotw.

[versed jacinth]

On high keys does brambles help or should I look for something more defenisve or healing .

[zenith narwhal]

It’s situational. I dropped the boomy path a while ago because it’s just not necessary since the thrash changes. Snap threat on giant packs is great baseline. I normally feral frenzy on any boss damage amp or non-meleeing phase (crawth, sentry, emberdawn, degentrius, last boss in maisara, etc). I don’t really ever do it on trash though. Damage isn’t really worth the risk (20-21 range for me right now).

[zenith narwhal]

Does a little, but not crazy, damage. Depends what you’re dropping and in what key. Damage is still great without it, and I generally play both urs. Warding and frenzied regen overheal shield.

[tawny stone]

Take Andy's Garfrost as an example: the Feral Frenzy here was basically 400k per cast for what's essentially a single GCD cost and 2 casts constitutes 7% of his ST boss damage

[slim tinsel]

how do you guys reset stacks on first algethar pull?

[hazy mural]

whats the deal with stursurge being outside of thrash there?

[open trail]

Thanks! I was trying to look for HOTW cast on logs, didnt thought about checking for cmg breakdown!

[bright wyvern]

• Play with an Evoker to clear the bleed debuff at 5-6 stacks
• Mark one of the bigger lashers with skull marker so people prio-target it down so they won't infinitely stack the debuff anymore
• Start kiting with Stampeding Roar (or other mobility tools from your party, like Tiger's Lust, priest grip etc) once stacks get high and incarn has run out

Once the debuff has dropped off completely, go in again

[tawny stone]

That's a very good question lmfao, I have my own +18 PoS to compare them and I have it inside Thrash

[slim tinsel]

without evoker I mean

with evoker it's pesh ez ofc

[fallen robin]

Bull Rush

[hazy mural]

1st 25/30 secs u got incarn and BS and infinite FR, once that runs out u kite when u have 3/4 stacks to reset it then go back in... keep cycling ur defs whilst ur stacks above 3 or so

having 1 skulled and telling ppl to kill it asap is very important for sure

but be aware that u can still stay at 5 stacks forever even if theres only 2 depending on when the 1st one dies

[slim tinsel]

yeah I just have trouble kiting them as bear

too slow

[hazy mural]

like choco said, stamp roar very good for the kite

[fallen robin]

Just run. Think you can outrun them with base MS and Swiftness talent.

[hazy mural]

micro kiting also seems to work for me

but some dps hate it

[steel maple]

@hazy mural I know you

[hazy mural]

[steel maple]

[modern atlas]

I literally just run. No assistance required. I got 128% movement speed in bear form thanks to talents like Feline Swiftness, Lycara's Inspiration, and something else as well

[winter sonnet]

Do we really press Maul now bc of tier? Or do we just use the moonfire benefit?

[half surge]

npx fucking hurts... maaaan

(we didnt time it tho)

[vital bay]

What is the move on trinkets if you do not raid, heart of wind + what?

[half surge]

i would still try to pug mythic chaemerus

and spend coins to get mythic aln

[lean granite]

Hello Guys 👋🏻 what so you thinking about secondary stats for m+ haste > Vers > Crit = mastery ? Or am i wrong ?

[summer hatch]

ur dps are doing 0 dmg

[summer hatch]

don’t think u really have to as bear

as long as u have competent dps

the pull is dead before u run out of cds

[jovial mauve]

even if u not raider go for hc chimaerus, beloren or dragons

also guidon is good

exclusive from m+ id say heart+feather

solarflare prism is also an option

or puzzlebox

but hc with pugs its free bro

btw i feel like my 285 dreadscale shield instabreaks in +19s

if using feather maybe u have to delay incarn 5-10 sec to line up

[muted pulsar]

that's why exboss is op, if you see the 2 remaining have their spells desynced by 7-8 seconds

time to kite to reset their timer

[novel fern]

is this normal? I got deleted. should I run away every time the pack is chainstunned?

[muted pulsar]

yeah unfortunately back stepping when a pack gets aoe stunned is a skill you need to pick up as a tank

otherwise you can die to synced melees

[merry quest]

whenever a pack is stunned/disorientated/whatever you need to take a step back - if they all regain control at the same time and you're in range to get hit by them then their autos will sync

just one or two steps in any direction means some of the pack will have to move before swinging

[jovial mauve]

unless they are champions on seat, u have to facetank them after the aoe stop

[novel fern]

it looked like a normal non rippy pack

but I guess sometimes I can get unlucky

I thought we'd have to worry about stuns only on exceptions like that priory pack

[jovial mauve]

also if u do vortex+typhoon does the meles sync?

[merry quest]

not likely - the snaps are usually off synced so theyll start moving again at different times

[twilit drum]

Watching a +21 key. I notice the tank using Moonfire as a filler to get CDR on Lunar Beam, ensure better dot coverage, etc.

I've been using Swipe as a filler.

Is Swipe useful at all?

[rustic kestrel]

As dotc yes, as ec, not currently

[jovial mauve]

as EC i guess u never swipe

even with the expansion start build almost never swipe

[twilit drum]

Happy to learn late than never! Thanks so much. ❤️

[novel fern]

swipe is useful to get aggro on newly spawned mobs

like 1st boss of academy and the mushroom miniboss in windrunner

[olive hare]

Idk man that swipe is not gonna do hell a lot in those situations. Hits for half of a dotc thrash prior to the 200% buff 🤷‍♂️

[meager snow]

hello, is anyone using 2 on use trinkets with guardian druid.
i have a hero track algethar puzzle box and myth track emberwing feather. was using ultradon cuirass untill i got the puzzlebox. second trinket was always crucible of erratic energies.

[half surge]

Guys does the monk debuff work for us? like... the AP buff from warrior does increase the damage off thrash even after convert into arcane dam

like thrash at base is physical.. so does it increase our dam or no

[hazy mural]

LF competent dps...

[olive hare]

Depends. For Dotc Monk buff is big. For EC not since thrash is converted into magic damage.

[half surge]

i meant like.. does it take first glance damage done before the conversion and amplify it

[olive hare]

Nope. Its an enemy debuff. The enemy receives damage and if damage is the school of the debuff, it gets multiplied.

Mystic touch and Chaos brand dont care about spells. They just care about damage types.

[summer hatch]

kek

[half surge]

got it

[olive hare]

Not recommendable nah. For the most part, double on-use trinkets are only good if your spec has a major cooldown which is on half of the trinkets cooldown timer. Example: If we could reliably get our incarn to 60 seconds, pbox and feather would be a decent combo, because you'd have an on-use trinket ready for every single incarn without them having a lot of downtime and without the 30s lockout after using an on-use trinket being a problem.

[muted pulsar]

The mage and warrior buff have nothing to do with the type of damage you're doing

Only if your spells scale with attack power (tanks, melees and hunters) or spell power (casters and healers)

[half surge]

i mean, we have no int so why did u mention int buff

[muted pulsar]

To give context on the difference between AP/SP and phys/magic damage

[oblique moat]

do we not use attack power

[muted pulsar]

Because you seem to be mixing stuff up

[muted pulsar]

???

Bear uses attack power

[oblique moat]

does warrior buff not give attack power?

[muted pulsar]

Literally open any bear spell on wowhead

[muted pulsar]

Yes so ?

[oblique moat]

so why do you say warrior buff has nothing to do with us

[muted pulsar]

Did you read the sentence or ?

Nothing to do with damage type

Not nothing to do with bear

[oblique moat]

k

[vagrant kestrel]

https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/mLIy6epfZGGDi3HDP?invite=cr-MSxtaW0sMjEyMjI5Mjgz

why am i not invincible here?

[sage dagger]

You didn’t bark or SI

On a pretty scary gather

[muted pulsar]

You facepulled a pack with no ironfur no barksin no lunar beam no SI, then turned you back to the pack to make sure you wouldn't dodge any melee

Incarn is just a 30% hp buff it's not gonna make you invicible on a gather

[sage dagger]

That pull does a lot of tank damage and you pressed nothing

[vagrant kestrel]

I was told with incarn I was a man that was unstoppable and feared

[muted pulsar]

Well that person lied to you

[sage dagger]

Once the pull is set up

[muted pulsar]

Yeah once everything is stacked up and you're getting thrashes out every other gcd you're pretty unkillable

But before that absolutely not

[sage dagger]

Barskin literally every gather

Any time you are going into a new pull including the start of a dungeon just barkskin

[shut jasper]

starting with 0 rage is also very silly

[muted pulsar]

Yeah swap out of bear form until the wall is about to come down to start with 25 rage

[vagrant kestrel]

Also for sky reach on the 17 I did the star fall thing right on the big pull and insta died

[sage dagger]

You don’t need that on sky

[rustic kestrel]

starfall before you start the pull

not during

[sage dagger]

IMO HotW in boomkin is bait

[shut jasper]

you startfall then roar back into bear right before entering the pull

[olive hare]

Once Rend and Tear is stacked and scintillating moonlight is spread, yes youre invincible during carn. But youre still vulnerable during the first seconds of a carn pull and shouldnt hesitate to use a bark or SI charge. Especially bark since its almost ready again after carn is finished.

[noble locust]

[chrome gulch]

[oblique moat]

can i stack SI and bark or does it diminish or whatever

[trim plaza]

never use both together

like never

[rustic kestrel]

except the pull right after 2nd boss skyreach 🤓

[trim plaza]

XD

[oblique moat]

[muted pulsar]

There's nothing wrong with using both at the start of a very hard pull

For instance andy does it at the start of seat with triple subjugator + 1 additional champion pack

[oblique moat]

hmm ok

i'd probably panic and press bark after SI anyways

[half surge]

excuse me and correct me if im wrong but, doesnt bear can dodge while turned ass to mobs?

[rustic kestrel]

cannot dodge from behind

[red knoll]

How many times has this been mentioned in the last week lol

Who is spreading the misinformation that bears dont care about backshots

[rustic kestrel]

people say it all the time acting like dodge doesnt matter

its not new

[red knoll]

Its gotta be some ytuber or guide saying it tho

For it to be this widespread

You're taking roughly 20-25% more damage taking backshots purely because of dodge

Possibly more if theyre big hits

[half surge]

got it

gotta beat shit out of my aug friend then

next time he mentions that

[silk zephyr]

tell him they removed the ultra instinct talent last expansion

[red knoll]

Tell him hes a fucking moron because its always worked like that

[silk zephyr]

^

same for block/dodge/parry

working my way to 100 heroic paladin kills cuz im bored

[brave cedar]

do you really not use mangle on st and just trash-moonfire? The wowhead guide suggests no, mangle ofc, but people have been adamant and i just wanted to double-check

[red knoll]

You should but people want to act like not pressing buttons is better

[brave cedar]

okay thank you

[red knoll]

It also depends when you need rage and when you need lunar beam

Thats the real answer

But people dont want nuance in guides

[silk zephyr]

always need lunar beam 😛

[red knoll]

You dont

Its pretty bad in st

[hazy mural]

u mangle if u need rage, if u want to mangle all the time u wanna take SOTF and MN

[red knoll]

Not worth griefing your incarn uptime

For an extra lb

I dont get the LB>incarn crowd

[half surge]

i doubt he will take me seriously if i say that... cuz im saying hes a moron more often than call his name

[brave cedar]

whats lb again

[red knoll]

When incarn is clearly superior in every way

[hazy mural]

lunar beam

[half surge]

lunar beam

[brave cedar]

makes sense, ty again

last time i checked there was a discussion if maul is even worth using with the apex-less talent build. Did that come to an conclusion?

in st

[red knoll]

Depends on talents

Even without talents its at worse even when you have a 4 set proc

Over pressing mf

[half surge]

i think u better off spending global on mangle to get CDR for incarn in that way

[hazy mural]

its technically a st gain if u use it when the tierset proc is up, but without that its not worth with the usual nopex talents... would need to go Killing Blow to be able to press it a lot more

[half surge]

im not a theorycrafter or something but

[brave cedar]

thanks again guys

[red knoll]

I mean mangle over maul isnt really a choice theyre different

[brave cedar]

apexless feels weird right now, but it will feel better i guess

[red knoll]

No its bad gameplay

[half surge]

TLDR u should aim for as much CDR for LB/incarn as possible

[red knoll]

Blizzard fucked up

[fallen robin]

Pretty sure that LB actually does good ST damage after the changes, right?

[silk zephyr]

negative

[half surge]

as those are big CDs for pulls to not feel like ur dancing on the edge with death

[brave cedar]

yeah

[hazy mural]

and it buffs thrash so much

[red knoll]

It doesnt lol

Incarn is 10x better for thrash damage than lb

Its not worth prioritizing lb over incarn

[olive hare]

It does decent ST yeah, idk what rip is smoking to claim it doesnt

[fallen robin]

Button to button which one does more direct damage in ST? 1 Maul or 1 LB?

[red knoll]

Thats not even a fair comparison what the fuck

[silk zephyr]

those arent even the same

[olive hare]

It 100% is . Both from a Log and sim angle. Stop the misinfo dude

[red knoll]

Nopex enjoyers smoking Crack

[fallen robin]

RIP is always going off because he's mad about the EC NoApex build. It's whatever.

[red knoll]

It's not man and its not even close

[fallen robin]

But I'm just thinking about press for press as EC. Cause LB also does increased damage to primary target

[red knoll]

From a damage and mitigation angle incarn is better than lb

[olive hare]

Just Stop it. People been telling you for days

[red knoll]

Yes people who are wrong

[fallen robin]

Didn't I ask you about Maul?

[red knoll]

Because you look at people who only press 2 buttons

[fallen robin]

Wdym Incarn?

[red knoll]

You made a bad argument

Im not answering that garbage because it doesnt matter

[fallen robin]

Your argument is that it doesn't do good ST damage above to me, correct?

[hazy mural]

tfw u have less arguments after blocking some ppl xD

[red knoll]

Hfc is a moron

[fallen robin]

Like it does do good ST damage

You should press it for ST damage

[red knoll]

Why trust his log knowledge when he doesnt even look at them properly

Okay?

[olive hare]

Bro lost it yeah, but I'm worried for the people passing by and catching up the maladvice

[red knoll]

And I said incarn is better to prioritize

People putting words in my mouth and acting like I said shit

Lb is not good st damage at all compared to incarn

[fallen robin]

This you bud?

It is still good in ST

[red knoll]

Context taken out

Classic

[olive hare]

Bro

Thats just wrong. shut it

You dont mangle in st

[half surge]

@red knollbtw, for EC tree do u choose the lunar thingy from moonfire that generates rage or u take 10% arcane dam during incarn?

[fallen robin]

Saying it is bad in ST is incorrect

[red knoll]

It is compared to incarn

Jfc

Context doesnt matter for you people

[olive hare]

Even mangling in st to get more mauls out is a net dps negative without sotf.

[red knoll]

You should take sotf

Wtf

Why would you not take a talent

[olive hare]

Yeah all the top parses use it. Oh wait, they dont.

[fallen robin]

Always Fury of Elune talent I think.

[red knoll]

The top padders?

Gj

Padding aoe damage

And doing negative boss damage

[hazy mural]

and u need KB for that, and also its a dps loss vs just using MN unless u wanna raze to feel something

[red knoll]

I love spending 5 mins on bosses just so my parse looks good

[olive hare]

"Pad dps" this is not xavius tenacles, keys arent gatekept by prio damage, but overall throughput.

[red knoll]

Youre an idiot if you believe st damage isnt good in keys

Goodbye

[olive hare]

No apex in that bland no mangle version just. does. better. deal with it

[half surge]

which one do u take here guys?

fury or incarn

[hazy mural]

light of elune

always

[red knoll]

Hfc lint and tazzer blocked now

Idiots cannot take anything in context and just look at top parses

People already proved st is better for overall key times

Especially with meta comps

But no look at dumbasses padding aoe

[olive hare]

Never said its bad, but a what like 7-8% st gain on a good day outside of meme burn bosses is not worth passing on 10-15% overall damage.

[red knoll]

If youre replying to me stop. I wont be insulted and called crazy for stating facts and having my words taken out of context

Youre all blocked

[fallen robin]

I don't think I discussed top parses at all. Just that LB does in fact do good ST damage.

Think it was specifically buffed to handle that for EC.

[red knoll]

Been going on far too long

I put up with it for a while but not anymore

[olive hare]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tqD1cHKfyX96LAnY?fight=15&type=damage-done&source=245&target=649

Vorasius damage done, yeah LB is garbage in St. The damage portion alone rivals MN and Red Moon, thats how "bad" it is

[red knoll]

As I stated, before the gaslighters chimed in. You should prioritize whichever you need at the time. Incarn is worth more than lb, i would start weaving in some rage gen to get incarn off cd if you feel you'll need it soon, if you dont think you'll need it within that time frame just go for lb/mf

[silk zephyr]

feel like people discount the 36% increase in attack power from LB too much

[red knoll]

The 10 seconds of ap

Is not worth griefing an incarn pull

[silk zephyr]

has like 30% uptime

wym

if not more

[red knoll]

And weaving in some rage to reduce incarn

Will not change that

By a significant amount

Spamming moonfire and thrash often isnt the correct answer to every situation.

[olive hare]

Yep correct. 55-60% uptime in highkeys is possible. Optimizing LB uptime and thrash count during it is where the big dps happens.

[brave cedar]

so going magle-trash alternating during incarn on st is just as possible as trash-mf alternating during incarn, depending on the situation?

[red knoll]

Guides mention it is for less complexity because people dont want nuance in their guides

If youre in incarn you can probably skip mangle for a bit

[silk zephyr]

also LB buffs all ur dmg vs just thrash on incarn