guardian

[left lantern]

also blobs on pull 7 are giga sus if it overlaps with aoes from riftwarden idk when you pull those

[lucid arrow]

blobs?

[left lantern]

the smallies that explode on death

idk what theyre called

[lucid arrow]

the broken?

[left lantern]

those yeah

[lucid arrow]

everythin in 7 is pulled together

[left lantern]

so explo overlaps with aoe then

[hazy mural]

how do u pull em quick?

[lucid arrow]

pull broken, go riftwarden, pull the other pack

[hazy mural]

cause they a bit far and if u go go too qick, ur getting some gapclosers from the champions

[left lantern]

stealth technologia

[half surge]

arent those just poop on the ground?

do they do dam on death too>

?

[left lantern]

no they also do an aoe

like 50-60k or so

[hazy mural]

the adept pack in the way tho

[left lantern]

per

[hazy mural]

if u stealth then ur wasting time gathering

[left lantern]

go right side from the tentacle, along the wall, run "through" the champion pack with stealth, pull broken

[lucid arrow]

u just go inbetween the riftwarden and the broken and u can pull broken onto riftwarden

no

[left lantern]

either way i dont think its a good pull ppl just play the broken with the subjugator after the rift warden is dead

[lucid arrow]

oh like from 6?

u can just walk there from 6

[hazy mural]

ah u kill sub

fair

still seems tight

this was just to test the route but im a big fan of chains

u save so much time if ur always fighting, esp if u have ppl in group that need to keep their resources active by dpsing all the time

[half surge]

i just dont know what to remove there

or add

gathering all the mobs in 1st area takes too much imo

if mobs went straight back

[trim plaza]

Why pull 14 is separated

[half surge]

dont pay too much attention to that

i just marked mobs for the count

[trim plaza]

Also wtf is that pull 5

[violet holly]

why are you avoiding the voidcaller packs?

[half surge]

im pulling these with other

[trim plaza]

Jeez bro

[half surge]

why?

its not hard for group

[trim plaza]

Not for group

[half surge]

and the adept is not scary if played right

[trim plaza]

For u it is kinda horror

[half surge]

yeah if played wrong

gotta use charge in time

to not get kicked for champs

if i mess the timing

[trim plaza]

Y but u wanna take that gamba?

[half surge]

im dead

[half surge]

yes

[trim plaza]

Up to you i guess

[half surge]

for the sake of group i must suffer

[trim plaza]

Let them feel some pain

[sharp gale]

The group will suffer when the tank is dead too tho

[half surge]

well i had no problems with adept last try

only if ppl didnt wipe on 3rd boss

we oculd have +2 18 seat

how.. bad is subjugator with riftwarden?..

[trim plaza]

I was about to say doesnt matter what u pull, 3rd boss is the real wall

[trim plaza]

Illegal

[violet holly]

very

[half surge]

all the packs here sooo cursed fucking hell.

[half surge]

this pull is possible?

[violet holly]

if you hav aug skip and/or you dont want to get the last pack at the top

[half surge]

.

[violet holly]

then you can pull more back to compensate for 13 and the double voidcaller pack

[sharp gale]

How do u skip the destroyer guys even

[trim plaza]

Those 2 casters will start casting far away if u pull them

[violet holly]

idk I never seen anyone pull the one in the center

[trim plaza]

Warlock gate example

[half surge]

kick, wait for the aoe to happen from destroyer and chain pull it

maybe

im losing hope already

[trim plaza]

Nah take way yoo much timr

[half surge]

u either do additional pull or

[half surge]

then... pull subjugator down the line?

here i mean

[trim plaza]

Brutalhoof

Most classic one

[half surge]

either do this pull or make a little wait for casters

[olive compass]

we did it

my ret paladin died

[violet holly]

ez 😎

[olive compass]

THREE TIMES on third boss

[trim plaza]

Ret paladins did not spawn with brain

[violet holly]

gotta spend the free bres, right?

[olive compass]

bro even apologized at the end of the key lmao

i did not expect to time 2 keys today

good day so far

[half surge]

wish me luck

im gonna test route in 16

seat

esp this one

[olive compass]

what is this

thats not the pull you usually do

[half surge]

i know..

need the count

[violet holly]

if you really want count I would suggest this

[half surge]

to skip subjugator pull

[olive compass]

show route

[half surge]

to skip pull 8 below

i go with pack 11 and pull 1 more pack into boss

1st boss

[olive compass]

why would you skip that

[half surge]

to save timer

[olive compass]

its fast and its there to let you get cds back for the harder pulls right after

you're gonna get away with it in a 16 but in high keys you'll be punished

[left lantern]

yes but its so slow to set up that its probably not even a timegain

[half surge]

but now its a bit overcount so... some loss of efficiency here

[olive compass]

this is what timed my 21 with 5 deaths

[half surge]

so... u say im overdoing it about timer?

should care less

[olive compass]

its pretty efficient and if you skip the big pack above 3rd boss you just make some of these pulls bigger

[olive compass]

if you cant time it with the route you have - the weird pull you threw in the route is not the issue

plus, the weirder your route, the less experience your pugs will have with it and that just increases the chances of them bricking the key because they're not prepared

[half surge]

so this will do for now..

[olive compass]

take 13-14-15 together

one pull

[half surge]

maybe 2+2?

[olive compass]

why

[half surge]

12-13 and 14 15

[lucid arrow]

12 pull dangerous af wouldnt add more on it

[olive compass]

its perfectly fine

just take 13-14-15

[half surge]

im not sure group will be able to CC properly

[olive compass]

12 is a pure standalone

[half surge]

and focus right targets

[olive compass]

theres nothing to cc bro

[half surge]

casts

[olive compass]

thats 3 kicks

its fine

thats the standard pull

[half surge]

6 kicks if we talk ur pull

2 perma casters and 4 important kicks

[olive compass]

you worry about time but splitting this is actually pure insanity and you'll lose maybe 2-3 mins there and it wont make the pull safer

[olive compass]

no

[half surge]

im not saying im gonna split them like that

[olive compass]

thats pull 12

do this

[trim plaza]

So u mean chaining

[half surge]

ye

ish

[olive compass]

and do the pack above AFTER so you can deal with the patrol beforehand

[violet holly]

I would chain like this

[olive compass]

thats useless

literally just grab it all

and sit where 13 is

[violet holly]

bring 14 to 15 and then chain to 13 and after to 12

[olive compass]

dont chain just take it all in one go

[violet holly]

just be aware that after killing 15 the boss gets active

[left lantern]

just pull all of it and group somewhere betwen 13 and 15

[olive compass]

^

[violet holly]

I would take 14 15 13 in one go but my teammates yelled at me

[olive compass]

if your group cant get past this pack they werent making it past 3 boss anyway

[violet holly]

but its perfectly doable

[left lantern]

and then watch ppl die to soaking orbs because reasons

[olive compass]

who are your team mates, are they progging 12s or what

[trim plaza]

Lol

[violet holly]

they tend to soak all the orbs seems like

sometimes

kind of a proc

[olive compass]

what key level are we talking about

[trim plaza]

U see from miles awat where orbs comes

Eyes are useful

[violet holly]

I know, right

[wary hearth]

Do you have any good for MT 20+?

As for seat I use the one you are discussing

[clear atlas]

tbf there is more than just the orbs in those packs in Seat if you do it all at once. It's 4 kicks + 3 channels, which is not impossible but can lead to some damage if not managed correctly. On top of balls ofc.

[violet holly]

I think there's room to optimize in other packs if you wanna do it safer there

[trim plaza]

Go hard or go home

[forest flume]

there's a ton of things that can go wrong if your worst player is your healer in that boss room

[quartz valve]

got a noob question - After pull 8 in here, Do You need lock gate to get up the platform for pull 9 or You can just run without pulling excess mobs?

[devout sage]

Do we always run the talents without Wild Guardian? Or is there an alternative build to the recommended one from WowHead?

[wary hearth]

Pug life is go hard and wipe, of course sometimes there are groups that it just click and you can push hard when star aligns and everyone gets inspired to play better than the others in the team. Sometimes it is beatiful to see.

[devout sage]

For M+ I mean

[trim plaza]

Tbh if u cant pull those 3rd boss room mobs together, u are not going through boss either

Or not all but

In 2 pulls total

[forest flume]

its the easiest option for sure, there are other builds, they should be on dreamgrove.gg (or in the pins here)

[olive compass]

lock or evoker rescue or any class that can jump/leap there and use mount

[wary hearth]

See pinned, 6 viable specs, just one is the meme spec without apex. Issue is it does more damage overall usually and it super simple to play. Apex you have more burst and control.

[olive compass]

we dont need anyone, we can skip for others

[hazy mural]

difference is the 4 casters... personally id chain a bit after we kick the casters and have started the orb rp then pull the last pack in too so it is unsynced

[wary hearth]

What saddens me is that I would parse at 98% and now I parse at 94%, and the only change is that everyone is playing the meme spec and I keep with apex. I just lose interest and stop paying attention, so I cant play meme.

[devout sage]

Thanks, that makes sense - so the Apex-less variant would be a good entry point for a new Guardian, and then swap to apex when routes, not dying, and the different pulls are more second nature?

[trim plaza]

Yes but if people cant kick its cooked already

[trim plaza]

Apex has alot better prio dmg, which is often more useful

[forest flume]

you can keep playing the non-apex if you want to keep it simple, its entirely up to you - try all the builds and pick the one you prefer really

most people at the top end at the moment are sticking to the no-apex build because it doesnt require any brain power and works very well

[olive compass]

quick guys, guess which spec i fotm rerolled one reset ago and which spec i played for the rest of the season

[devout sage]

Thanks a bunch!

[wary hearth]

Yeah, the wowhead one would be good point to start. You can also macro ironfur to trash and mangle since you wont be using rage offensively, so you will get a lot of ironfurs to keep you tanky and safe.

On a side note, macroing ironfur like that is a bad practice in the long run, but might ease your entry point to tanking.

[stiff phoenix]

What are the main issues with macroing IF to thrash? Is it that you want to be able to pool rage for specific fights to use FR, and also that more than one stack of IF isn’t that useful? Anything im missing?

[devout sage]

Wait, the apex-less variant never uses rage offensively? Or is it just a noob-friendly recommendation to not do in the beginning? ^^

[rustic kestrel]

Cant pool rage for another pull. Randomly not have rage for Frenzied Regen, randomly not have rage for brez

[stiff phoenix]

Oh I didn’t even notice the conversation was about that already

[odd cave]

the biggest issue is any time you have latency, having ironfur macroed to thrash could delay thrash

because of input lag

[stiff phoenix]

Yeah I think I e noticed a few of these issues already. I’m just entering 14s and a few times not that it’s bricked the key but it’s clearly going to be a challenge moving forward. Un macro time

Brez one happened a few keys ago

[unborn dock]

Totally agree with you, I really enjoy raze, but getting beaten by some 3 button turtle build enjoyer shouldn't be the case. It should be rewarded to dump rage on raze

[odd cave]

you can get around this by just having mangle bound in case you need instant rage for bres

[stiff phoenix]

Yeah when I stopped lizard braining I mangled

People didn’t know second last boss on maisara

[lucid arrow]

i have mangle bound and addoned it to not glow when it procs gore so i dont press it because it's shiny

[forest flume]

hopefully they fix this before 12.1 or it's going to be a boring end of season :x

(they won't)

[rustic kestrel]

I mean its locked till 12.1

[odd cave]

i dont bind ironfur to thrash because I play at 180ms and this causes thrash to be delayed quite often, i macro ironfur to moonfire instead because I care less if moonfire gets delayed

[rustic kestrel]

they aint doing anything else

[lucid arrow]

do you really want them to fix it?

[forest flume]

can still nerf thrash again

(please nerf thrash again)

[rustic kestrel]

lmao yes they should

this playstyle is ass

[lucid arrow]

i can already imagine it
-50% thresh dmg
reworked apex to do something stupid
bear is F tier tank

[stiff phoenix]

I would like mangle, apex and raze to be viable

[unborn dock]

25% thrash nerf, raze up by 15% I won't see a DPS change on my side

[lucid arrow]

like when they buffed off meta tank auto attack dmg

[rustic kestrel]

drooling should not be optimal play

[forest flume]

Nerf thrash, revert raze/ravage nerf, and I'm happy

that does not require waiting until 12.1

[stiff phoenix]

Too real

[odd cave]

tbh im enjoying the no mangle/raze build mostly because I never got used to losing the extra range from balance affinity, I once again no longer have to care about being in melee range with mobs (paladin doesn't care about this either)

[lucid arrow]

id rather drool and be a good spec than have a fun rotation and be in the trash bin

[forest flume]

then go play monk

[stiff phoenix]

Apex: your bear now poops when you press incarn for a second time, enemies hit by the poop deal 200% increased damage

[lucid arrow]

new apex: incarn makes you give birth to bear cubs to follow you around for 5 mins (non battle pet)

[unborn dock]

Apex is fine as it is, just raze feels underwhelming

[stiff phoenix]

I feel like apex should feel cool and powerful, doubling your abilities is just eh to me

[forest flume]

Raze didn't need to get nerfed, seems they were just lazy and nerfed maul and it was a "eh might as well nerf raze while we're at it"

[stiff phoenix]

Like bear poop

[lucid arrow]

yeah the double your abilities once every 2-3 min is kinda meh

[unborn dock]

And when I play DPS, and I see the new bears in my keys I'm low-key scared they have no idea what they are doing, they just press their 3 buttons and hope for the best

[forest flume]

Current apex is a LOT of damage, the issue is that unless you plan ahead, it happens once every 2 minutes

[rustic kestrel]

Yeah apex should be cool. Like an extremely flexible ability that can be used for prio damage, or as a strong defensive whenever you want

what a crazy idea

[trim plaza]

bear was already second best tank even before trash changes xd

[stiff phoenix]

Like what if instead of echoing the abilities, it upgraded raze/maul and iron fur to like supercharged versions with new visuals and sounds and icon

[lucid arrow]

ye but you're acting like blizz will just revert thrash

[clear atlas]

This dumb ass build is the price we need to pay to get our awful Apex changed.

[lucid arrow]

they'll do something beyond stupid like they usually do and touch a bunch of unrelated abilities

[wary hearth]

Because the build is razeless and usually it is recommendef to ignore even mangle on it, so you could maul on bosses, but usually you want to hit lunar beam, trash, 3x moonfire, trash again and so on until lunar beam is up and repeat.

[rose latch]

Are most people running EC for raid now too? I looked at logs and top damage parses are EC but I love dotc play style.

[lucid arrow]

they're kinda 50-50

[olive hare]

Apex EC and DOTC play 99% the same.

[trim plaza]

problem is, generator should never top ur dmg, spender should do it, im not saying trash has to do 0 dmg but this is kinda silly

[lucid arrow]

it defo is i just don't have faith in them to make it better

[stiff phoenix]

Ironfur becomes steel fur, raze/maul become something idk cool visuals

[lucid arrow]

like they'll make it worse before they make it better

[rustic kestrel]

yeah but like.. having to make a choice every 1/10 casts is like rly hard for my brain

[rose latch]

Yeah makes sense. Ty.

[rustic kestrel]

thats just too much thinking in a competitive video game :/

[forest flume]

I changed my name, it will happen next monday at 7:28PM est right?

[unborn dock]

I mean i was happy before the changes, sure aggro was an issue but there were other ways to fix it then to buff thrash, maybe add swipe with cd that aoe taunts

[forest flume]

I was off by a couple of hours last time they nerfed it

[wary hearth]

Macro thrash first and ironfur second, so it wont have a delay and burns the rage you just gained. But macroing ironfur is a bad practice.

[trim plaza]

also our dmg profile was way better before no apex circus

[lucid arrow]

what ever happened to kittyweaving

[trim plaza]

i would not be surprised if they change lunation to flat cd reduction

[forest flume]

buffing thrash was fine, issue was that they overbuffed it :p

[unborn dock]

I would never recommend someone to macro ironfur tbh, it just makes you worse. The build is already just 3 keybinds, if you can't handle 4 use the 1 button rotation

[rustic kestrel]

This is the only way to ensure EC is properly fixed regardless of changes

[olive hare]

Overbuffed thrash and overnerfed maul/raze/ravage, those are bears two current struggles.

[trim plaza]

trust me bro when i say this. someone said 2 days ago to me pressing mangle is too much effort

oxez might remember it

XD

[forest flume]

Maul maybe was warranted because of pointless content (raid, don't hate me), rest was blah

[odd cave]

i tried this and it still delayed

[trim plaza]

ye and they have done this to pretty much every tank, bdk DRW flat cdr, pala wings, some dps specs too etc

[olive hare]

Yeah raid balancing f'ed us up hard this season. And thats why I think current state will stay that way for the remaining season.

[olive hare]

tbf the vast majority of the bdk community is super pissed about drw being a flat 90s cd now.

[unborn dock]

I mean these people can't be helped, I have so many bad keys with bears on my DPS, their whole Rio is inflated because of the stupid turtle build.

[trim plaza]

they will either go full raze when they fix apex, or just be lazy and change apex to trash focused

[trim plaza]

myself too

[clear atlas]

how exactly would that be “lazy”

[trim plaza]

cause it will buff even more this degen gameplay? xdd

[clear atlas]

uh

no?

Please tell me your imagination isnt so limited to only see this as a binary case

[trim plaza]

trash should never be ur top dmg in any situation, especially single target LOL

[olive hare]

I'm torn apart. I think bdk opener rocket launch sequence needed some pruning. But as a flat 90s cd - which is bdks major offensive/defensive cooldown - drw doesnt cut it. Feels like it should be 60s.

[rustic kestrel]

Setting Lunar Beam to a flat 30s just solves so many issues.

[trim plaza]

^

[trim plaza]

yep

[hazy mural]

would still have same playstyle

except its swipe xD

[trim plaza]

spamming moonfire? nope

[forest flume]

tons of ways to tweak apex to make it interesting and useable more often than it is now in a pull - simple and quick example: they could do stuff like every time you thrash you increase your maul/raze damage by %, and then add an effect to those empowered spenders when you use them - anything not being locked to incarn will be a good thing

[clear atlas]

i dunno if you played BDK since the recent buffs but you have a solid amount of DRW uptime

[olive hare]

Resolve actual issues or just shift rotational priorities?

[rustic kestrel]

no, because raze actually is worth it now

[trim plaza]

still alot less than tww

[clear atlas]

no shit

[trim plaza]

so the change is bad

LOL ur point?

[rustic kestrel]

Without Moonfire giving so much Lunar beam priority, now rage spent on raze damage matters

[hazy mural]

not sure... would still be played, its just a nerf, and if they dont add buffs elsewhere...

I just wanna be strong, idc how that happens

[unborn dock]

I mean BDK feels great since they buffed it, only issue I have is that low hp pool, even though you have a good uptime on VB

[olive hare]

Uptime on average is okayish, but the parrychance during drw is way too low and the way that drw uptime is implemented is just super weak. Nothing worse than "heres a cookie, take it" type of proc effects.

[clear atlas]

b/c comparing to last expac is moronic when the entire design paradigm has shifted

[trim plaza]

i expect them to revert raze nerfs, surely

[hazy mural]

not even gonna think how they fixing this... either they nerf with their changes or they buff us even more somehow

[unborn dock]

Did they actually announce another thrash nerf ?

[trim plaza]

no

just apex fix in future

[olive hare]

I think maul/raze/ravage primary damage cant receive any reverts/buffs. But what they could do is upping the secondary target portion. Thats what makes feel raze/ravage shit to press in AoE outside of apex.

[hazy mural]

personally, I hope they rework the apex to TnC rng and call it a day

[forest flume]

Sepulcher 2-set thanks

[rustic kestrel]

god i miss tnc

[hazy mural]

it's gone, brother

[forest flume]

it could come back in some form with the new apex!

[hazy mural]

not getting barkcarn back

[forest flume]

says the betrayer

[hazy mural]

do I look like Illidan?

im not that hot

[flat magnet]

Can someone explain the lunar beam bug to me? Something about pulling mob the second I target it and haven't cast any abilities.

[sharp gale]

why would that be a bug? in midnight when u press lunar beam u basically make it appear over the target

[hazy mural]

thats the waking nightmare bug

[rustic kestrel]

Thats not Lunar beam, its from Waking Nightmare proccing

[sharp gale]

or u mean if ur inside lunar beam and target someone from afar it gets pulled?

oh

[olive compass]

we did it again

[flat magnet]

@hazy mural @rustic kestrel @sharp gale this is the clip from last night: https://www.twitch.tv/sakizer/clip/FurryClearOstrichNinjaGrumpy-un_h8hUgHwZh0xV4

We don't know what pulled it.

All I did was target the mob to get ready to root it with entangling

[rustic kestrel]

waking nightmare

there he is

right there to the left of the health bar

[wary hearth]

I do agree, i dont like how the game is for any class, all dps focused on cds, i think the dps should come from the rotation, and cds to be a short burst window.

[flat magnet]

Can you explain how this interaction works? I thought it replicates my thrashes only tho?

I'm not sure what bug it is? Or how it is working?

[rustic kestrel]

If waking nightmare is up and you target something

It becomes the nightmares primary target

and puts it in combat

despite not even hitting it

[flat magnet]

oh this is some bs 😂 i've seen it happen so many time and finally I had a good clip of it to figure out why

[odd cave]

can you use this to pull stuff through walls

[flat magnet]

im not home rn, is it possible to track waking nightmare and whether he is up right now?

in cdm?

[rustic kestrel]

its been theorized but idk if anyones checked because its so random

I dont think theres any way to track him

[olive hare]

I think some burst is okay, but yeah a tank shouldnt be super burst centric, if that burst comes at the cost of the baseline being so undertuned that it almost doesnt cut it from a threat perspective.

[flat magnet]

thank you for your help! I appreciate it!

[odd cave]

cause it's basically exactly how the brew tier set bug worked except that was more reliable I guess

[fierce plaza]

Hey guys, quick question, how do you manage your aggro while gathering a pack ? I often lose aggro to DPS while I am moving, do I do something wrong ?

[olive compass]

press thrash and moonfire as you run

[fierce plaza]

Okay this is what I do, but still losing aggro to DPS full sending it

[rustic kestrel]

Packs with distance start with moonkin Hotw. Make sure youre getting to packs and actually hitting them, letting them slowly come to you will slow you down and your group wont wait

[lucid arrow]

sometimes it's just dps being too jumpy

if your dps is blasting right away realistically not much you can do

[brazen laurel]

if you lose threat while stablishing the pull, thats on the dps.

ideally you use cat sprint to get ahead of dps. then bear charge and moonfire as you go, as soon as you have like 2 packs you thrash. and you use that 1minute cooldown spell to reset thrash CD if you gather the 3rd pack and thrash isnt off cooldown yet,

you keep spamming moonfire until your health drops, then you use frenzy and keep spamming thrash and moonfire

if you still lose threat idk

[olive compass]

if you're under incarn shouldnt be happening

you should pre-incarn beginning of the key which is the time where you're most likely to lose aggro

[fierce plaza]

Not under incarn, out of incarn is complex for me, specifically with Devourer

[olive compass]

dev is a special thing

[lucid arrow]

devourers love to press their big dmg cd

on pull

[olive compass]

they will rip if they send a bomb instantly

[lucid arrow]

and die

it's their thing

[fierce plaza]

Yeah that's what happens

but I would guess on 17-18 they learned to wait a bit

[trim plaza]

dont invite devourers, solved

[olive compass]

they dont wait in 21-22s

[rustic kestrel]

There is no key level where dps learn how to not me stupid

Youd think "oh yeah i bet in title range dps players actually know whats going on"

Its not true

[olive compass]

if anything

[rustic kestrel]

Dps players are morons and always will be

[olive compass]

certain traits become exacerbated

like in higher keys they REALLY dont wait because they want to minmax 0.1s

[fierce plaza]

And for me it's a loss of DPS to full send on 3 moving target than 10 static one, i don't know

[olive compass]

realistically our dps loss matters way less

[rustic kestrel]

Im still not conviced any dps player in 21+ even knows how the first boss of pit works

[olive compass]

the real issue is

timer being changed because you have to fix something

which fucks our cds

SEAT 1st pull is very important to get right if you do triple subjugator because if the chains get desynced then your team will die

[shut jasper]

that's why I'm a hunter main

[olive compass]

²so if your team is being dumb then you're fucked

[shut jasper]

professional moron

[lucid arrow]

you reckon dps would eventually learn

starting too early gets you smacked and dead

idk it's not some niche time saving trick

it's instant feedback

but ig they never learn

[olive compass]

Shadowmeld on dh lets them get away with it too much

[lucid arrow]

you could attach dev bomb to an electric chair and they'd still press it

[olive compass]

They dont have to learn

[hazy mural]

I still have the clip

[rustic kestrel]

Demon hunters wouldrather fucking DIE then cancel a collapsing star

and they prove it again and again

[lucid arrow]

they'd rather brick a key than cancel it

[rustic kestrel]

"oh i thought i had more time"

bitch i dont play your spec and knew you didnt you fucking degen

devourer is single handedly the worst spec ever introduced I hate those players man

[olive compass]

Wrong

Aug is

Fucking boosted

All of them

[rustic kestrel]

Aug worst for the game, Devorer worst players

[dense latch]

no i like auggies. they make numbers go up

[lucid arrow]

AA 1st pack is the worst

[dense latch]

numbers go up, dopamine go brrr

[lucid arrow]

it's the hardest to get aggro on everything while gathering

and dps never know this and start way too early and die

[rustic kestrel]

one starfall should basically guarentee aggro

[lucid arrow]

i dont play with moonkin anymore

[odd cave]

guy in our guild parses low single digits on every class and got to 3450 in 1 day on aug

[rustic kestrel]

oh well thats just a poor choice then

[hazy mural]

why not?

its good

[dense latch]

i run by the first pack of skitterflies before the rest of the group can get into the first pull room. they get stuck behind the skitterflies and give me like 5 seconds to gather the mobs

[shut jasper]

idk what you're on about

[lucid arrow]

most people don't take it in high keys and im trying to wean off it

so i can have better threat out of it

[rustic kestrel]

Squish has a rogue and a hunter in his group

[hazy mural]

they are also coordinated

[rustic kestrel]

do you have a rogue and hunter in all your groups

[hazy mural]

u gotta play to ur audience

[dense latch]

squish's group is famous for only playing those classes ever. they're specialists

[hazy mural]

[rustic kestrel]

Not everything top players do is correct all the time, also theres instances where stuff is specifically different to how you would play with your groups

[lucid arrow]

not just squish group it's not a popular talent

[forest flume]

you and I

can be friends

[dense latch]

what talent?

[hazy mural]

moonkin

[dense latch]

i just got here and will not be scrolling up

[hazy mural]

for starfall hotw

[dense latch]

oh. i like it. gives me a good spike of adrenaline when i hit boomy mid pull

[rustic kestrel]

mantra of most people asking basic questions here

[lucid arrow]

idk feels bad to drop other points to get hotw starfall because of devourers who can't wait

[hazy mural]

sometimes u just wanna pad more thrash

or its super useful for gathering

[rustic kestrel]

but like, what points are you dropping realistically

[hazy mural]

like start of seat too

[lucid arrow]

prolly symbiotic and forestwalk

[rustic kestrel]

no

those are different tiers

they dont fight with each other

[hazy mural]

they sometimes do tbf

[rustic kestrel]

You might lose the 4% healing node which is nothing

[lucid arrow]

huh? they give you the talent point

[olive hare]

matted fur for nopex most likely

[hazy mural]

since u have an abundance

[rustic kestrel]

matted fur 😵‍💫

[lucid arrow]

the 6% healing you mean

oh no you mean natural recovery

4% really isn't nothing

and then what's the other point

[olive hare]

Its not that terrible, that absorb is pretty neat when pushing bark on a fresh assembly

[lucid arrow]

matted fur

4% healing and matted fur because devourers can't wait a few seconds

Just brick my shit up

[dense latch]

i'm gonna make a devourer dh specifically to terrorize other tanks

[hazy mural]

dont u dare speak badly about my matted fur!

[rustic kestrel]

random log check, ortemist does 35,385 hps on Squish, with 33% overhealing. take away the 4% its 33,969

[olive hare]

Terrorizing slow tanks you should add. If your devourer is craving uptime it might also indicate you just being bad at transitioning.

[forest flume]

gl with that, I stopped bothering picking up agro against pug devourers

[dense latch]

it's not about you. it's about you taking the blame 🙂

[solar spruce]

So we dont mangle anymore in the apexless build right?

[lucid arrow]

is that all healing received

[dense latch]

i mangle on ST

[solar spruce]

okay but only on pure ST right?

[white sentinel]

Say I have a weapon that is not BIS but mythic and a trinket that is BIS. Should I use the voidcore on weapon or trinket?

[hazy mural]

if u wanna use it, u can and u just have to make sure u take SOTF and MN with it to make it better

[dense latch]

i also mangle to go from boomy/cat back to bear

[hazy mural]

or else u just use it for a quick rage fix

[trim plaza]

both

[white sentinel]

Wise

[rustic kestrel]

matted fur is actually doing a bit more than I realized

[dense latch]

voidcore everything. they can be farmed

[trim plaza]

exactly

[dense latch]

i have like 6 just sitting in my bags

[rustic kestrel]

probably buffed by lunar beam quite a bit

[white sentinel]

Both it is

[hazy mural]

it doubledips

[olive hare]

weapon first 100%, ilvl on weapon is big.

[hazy mural]

usually near 10 pct of my pre mitigation healing

[lucid arrow]

that's why I'm saying it doesn't feel good to drop talents

[rustic kestrel]

But also, the goal is to do what you can to make your runs go better

You cant control your random devouerers

but you can control how you play

[hazy mural]

😻

[trim plaza]

boomkin starfall not neccessary to all dungeons, but i like it in AA first pull

[lucid arrow]

im just explaining my reasoning for not taking it

but yes

I'll likely start taking it only for AA

since 90% of devourer slaps are on that

[trim plaza]

but lets say dungeon like magister, absolute useless

[hazy mural]

hey, can pad on the worms after 1st boss!

[trim plaza]

ohh cmon man

[hazy mural]

uselessly good there!

[trim plaza]

xdd

[lucid arrow]

i also take symbiotic relationship

[hazy mural]

or pad after 3rd boss too

[trim plaza]

not like we do pad dmg already only with no apex

[lucid arrow]

put it on whoevers shit at their defensives

pop FR when they should be using defensives

[hazy mural]

shameless pad is why I play this game

[trim plaza]

tbh symbiotic will not save ur dps

if they cant press buttons

[solar spruce]

I see the top builds are taking sundering roar, but damn that talent feels so awkward

[olive hare]

stop violating the term pad damage please

[trim plaza]

y i throwed it out of window

[hazy mural]

true... they all need to die

[lucid arrow]

nah but can help healer

[lucid arrow]

start using it whenever it would reset thrash

and don't wait for 5 stacks

i was waiting for 5 stacks and shit makes it awkward

[odd cave]

yeah you can just take brambles instead and forget about it

[unborn dock]

What do you even drop for matted fur ?

[hazy mural]

u get to have both e asily

[hazy mural]

I dont run fluid form

[unborn dock]

I don't either

[trim plaza]

u have moonkin things?

[solar spruce]

Is it generally considered worth it to run Moonless Night and SotF in keys? Or is it better overall to just drop mangle altogther like the top builds are doing?

[hazy mural]

can u screenshot ur class talents?

[lucid arrow]

not if you want the fr shield talent

[hazy mural]

theres a lot of fluff there u can remove normally

[trim plaza]

if u hate sundering, then yes u can do something like that, but moonless is kinda shiet without maul presses

[hazy mural]

I have that too

[lucid arrow]

what are u dropping

[hazy mural]

and still have leftover to get UW even tho its almost useless

[odd cave]

then you give up the magix dmg reduction or nature's resilience. Whether or not those are any good, it's what the top log builds are playing. They aren't playing brambles though. If you can't be bothered with sundering roar you can just take those builds and direct swap SR for brambles

[lucid arrow]

i wonder what the dps loss would be

[trim plaza]

ye its kinda minor

[lucid arrow]

drop sr for brambles

[hazy mural]

not on retail atm, but this is what I run

[trim plaza]

pretty sure kele counted its like almost nothing but im not sure

[unborn dock]

Maybe I drop rejuv and mangle crit

[lucid arrow]

no reinvig?

wrong reply

[lucid arrow]

no reinvig?

[hazy mural]

u dont need the maul amp btw, unless ur maul/razing a lot

[hazy mural]

its bugged with DG

[lucid arrow]

DG?

[hazy mural]

it will use up DG without the benefit

[lucid arrow]

explain

[hazy mural]

Dreamguide

[solar spruce]

looks like he takes Ursols Warding over Reinvig

[lucid arrow]

oh

[oblique adder]

how do I deal with annihilate for kruul on mage tower 2nd phase

[lucid arrow]

but everyone takes 1 point in it instead of 2

[hazy mural]

so it only works if u choose DOC

[lucid arrow]

is 2p bugged or both points

[hazy mural]

any point

[lucid arrow]

cus i see everyone takes DG and 1p reinvig

[hazy mural]

dreamguide buffs ur regrowth

it steals it but dosent buff the regrowth

[lucid arrow]

[solar spruce]

Does casting Frenzied with Reinvig consume the DoC buff?

[hazy mural]

yes

[lethal elbow]

oh dear, didn't realise that

[solar spruce]

so its good combo then?

[hazy mural]

and the doc talent works properly at least

so if u go reinv, u need DOC

[unborn dock]

Isn't doc the one you have to cast yourself ?

[lucid arrow]

why do ppl take it then?

reinvig

[hazy mural]

yes

[hazy mural]

because most ppl arent nerds

[solar spruce]

No because with Reinvig Frenzied consumes the buff

[forest flume]

because the top person plays it and everyone copies

[hazy mural]

they just assume it works, as they should

[lucid arrow]

there's no way the top aren't nerds

[lethal elbow]

so you could take DOC and never cast regrowth but still gain benefit from the 130% proc?

[lucid arrow]

surely they knows it's bugged

[solar spruce]

yes with Reinvig

[hazy mural]

yes

[lethal elbow]

I haven't tkaen it because of the awkwardness and potential issue with changing out by error, but that is interesting then 😄

thanks!

[hazy mural]

its what we used to do... aint no body got time to help friends at the cost of a GCD

[lethal elbow]

I would never have realised that XD

[lucid arrow]

doesn't reinvig healing outweigh DG anw?

even if it eats it

[hazy mural]

not really... they are nerds of a different kind

testing minute stuff of specs is a different kind of nerdism

they are more dungeon mechanic nerds

[trim plaza]

use barskin, next survival instict, 3rd survival instict again

[lucid arrow]

idk im not sold

i like my FR

love me fr

simple as

[trim plaza]

reinvi just feels so weak without DoC

[odd cave]

if you cast FR at 80% do you get the regrowth heal first and then get the FR as a shield or does it not apply that way

with reinvi I mean

[trim plaza]

regrowth will be instantly casted when u press FR

[hazy mural]

it adds to it

[odd cave]

maybe that is why they are still taking it then

[hazy mural]

or its supposed to

but it only just eats it

[lucid arrow]

yeah im saying even tho it eats it it's a net gain

[hazy mural]

on DoC, it just adds to it

no

its a net loss for DG

u just waste a talent point on DG then

[trim plaza]

DG it wont do anything

its bugged

[hazy mural]

so its better to just run DOC in that case

[trim plaza]

if u want Reinvi, go DoC

[lucid arrow]

won't DG still be fine when it procs without FR?

[odd cave]

Dreamguide won't work at all if you take reinvigoration?

[rustic kestrel]

It just doesnt boost the reinvig heal

[hazy mural]

DG and DOC are basically the same

except DG is automatic on whomever drops below 40 pct hp

[lucid arrow]

yes

so if it procs without reinvig

it won't eat it

[odd cave]

one takes a GCD one doesn't?

[lucid arrow]

if regrowth automatically casts without FR

[hazy mural]

but anytime u use regrowth somehow, DG gets used and wont give u the healing amp on the regrowth it is supposed to give

[lucid arrow]

then it's just a normal DG no?

[trim plaza]

DoC doesnt take global if u use it to urself by pressing FR

when u have reinvi

[hazy mural]

u lose the healing amp of DG

[forest flume]

The point is if you are using FR it will cast regrowth and you will lose a stack of DG for absolutely nothing

[odd cave]

right but it does if you want to regrowth someone else right

[lucid arrow]

why?

[hazy mural]

because its bugged

[trim plaza]

yes

[lucid arrow]

but it's bugged only when reinvig casts it, no?

the bug is with reinvig

or am i not understanding

[hazy mural]

when any regrowth is casted that wasnt made by the DG ability

[trim plaza]

it will not boost ur regrowth

[odd cave]

yeah but they are saying reinv will cast regrowth every time you FR so it's eating a lot of DG procs

[trim plaza]

urself i mean

[lucid arrow]

yes but even if you have reinvig, DG is still casting regrowth

[hazy mural]

so if u purposely use regrowth urself, it uses up a DG stack but wont boost the healing

[trim plaza]

so that regrow heal is liek what, 0?

[hazy mural]

if u use FR reinv it uses up a stack but wont boost the healing

[lucid arrow]

you're wasting its procs through reinvig, but whenever it procs without it it's fine

[trim plaza]

yes, but when u use FR, it will consume stack and doesnt do any heal

[rustic kestrel]

yes

[lucid arrow]

ok so i understand correctly

[hazy mural]

but at that point u might as well go DOC

[odd cave]

you could easily eat all the procs yourself though during incarn, then DG did nothing

[hazy mural]

because u get much better value

[rustic kestrel]

Reinvigoration is just significantly weaker if you run dream guide, because the consumed regrowth stack doesnt buff it properly

[lucid arrow]

but sometimes u want it on ur allies

[trim plaza]

yes this is the point here xd

[hazy mural]

but then u have to not FR

which defeats the point of it

[trim plaza]

u dont wanna start thinking when to use FR cause losing group healing then

[hazy mural]

if u want regrowth very bad on ur allies, u can DOC and cast it on em

[trim plaza]

thats harder than playing apex build

[lucid arrow]

but you can hold more than one charge no?

4 charges was it?

[hazy mural]

same as DOC yh

[odd cave]

if you dont take reinvitg then no point taking forestwalk either right

[lucid arrow]

so you're only eating them all up in incarn

[hazy mural]

do u run NR?

[lucid arrow]

full talent name pls

i dont remember them all

[trim plaza]

i mean it boosts ur groups healing taken when regrowth goes to them pretty sure

[hazy mural]

the FR shield

[lucid arrow]

yes

[hazy mural]

and u try to keep 1 stack on cd, right?

[lucid arrow]

yes

[hazy mural]

so then ur naturally using the DG stacks up even outside incarn

[lucid arrow]

what's FR cd per stack?

[hazy mural]

not all of em, but ur devaluing the talent

[lucid arrow]

defo devaluing

my point is just

[hazy mural]

20 secs now iirc

or about that

[lucid arrow]

maybe in the end having those regrowth on low hp allies is worth it

even if you're eating a large portion of them

as compared to boosting your own rg which isn't as valuable

[hazy mural]

atp, better to just manually regrowth em with doc?

[rustic kestrel]

except DoC lets you target heal people who are about to die

[lucid arrow]

but that's a global

[trim plaza]

^this

[forest flume]

I like how we are doing mental gymnastics against math and facts, just because someone doing high keys is picking a bugged talent

[trim plaza]

ye but u want to heal person who is ACTUALLY dying

[forest flume]

can we nerf thrash so we can go back to fighting how to use apex correctly instead

[odd cave]

i mean it's usually just a moonfire global, saving your team is better than 3s cdr on lunar beam

[hazy mural]

so what ur saying is... BUFF THRASH!?

[lucid arrow]

im just trying to figure out why they're taking it lmao

[hazy mural]

already said

[trim plaza]

tbh we have had more fights about mangle/moonfire these last few days XD than bugged DG

[forest flume]

they just don't know its bugged

[hazy mural]

they dont know the bug

[rustic kestrel]

most people probably dont even realize its a bug. Most of these bears are fotm

We didnt even realize it was bugged until recently

[trim plaza]

i dont wanna be that guy but

lazy people

[lucid arrow]

wouldn't ppl take it regardless?

it heals more even if it wasn't bugged

and lets u cast on low hp ppl who are in danger

[odd cave]

he's saying if they knew about the bug they would take DoC instead of dream guide

[hazy mural]

nope

[rustic kestrel]

Dg just casts on people under 40%, you are not always in danger under 40%

[hazy mural]

if they knew, they would either go DOC, or just remove reinv

[lucid arrow]

that's what I'm asking

[hazy mural]

simple as that

[lucid arrow]

even if it wasn't for the bug, wouldn't top players take it for the 30% more hp + casting on prio targets not automatic?

[hazy mural]

taking dg and reinv is the worst of both worlds whilst it is bugged

[lucid arrow]

im trying to understand why they don't take it

can't just be lazy

[trim plaza]

95% of Fotm watches 1 video talent build, slams the talents and goes to do keys

[forest flume]

yes another reason to nerf thrash

[lucid arrow]

im talking about the top players

[hazy mural]

I mean are u trying to ignore what im saying?

[rustic kestrel]

You would have to ask them

[trim plaza]

true

[lucid arrow]

no

[hazy mural]

tryna be patient but ur literally ignoring what I said twice now xD

[lucid arrow]

im saying even if it isn't bugged, it doesn't make sense to me why they take it

since the other allows for manual prio casting and 30% more heal

[hazy mural]

but it is bugged...

[lucid arrow]

ok..

[forest flume]

because they are good at dungeons doesn't mean they are smart and know everything, it's ok to question what they do

[lucid arrow]

it's bugged, and ppl take it

i get that

cus they think it isn't bugged

however, if you think it's not bugged, and you're a top player, why do you take dg over doc?

since dg has poorer prio healing and less healing in general

[hazy mural]

because less GCDs to think about

[forest flume]

because it lets you not have to think about casting regrowth

[hazy mural]

its just strictly better

[forest flume]

and removes the risk of casting it right before proc ends and end up shifting out of bear

ie: can be lazy

[hazy mural]

I call laziness efficiency!

[lucid arrow]

so ya I'm just saying maybe taking it with reinvig still is worth it cus of these benefits despite the bug

[forest flume]

Yeah, not lazy in a bad way

but the good kind of lazy

They might think "Well crap that sucks if I lose stacks for no reason, but if it saves one person without me having to think about it, worth"

[hazy mural]

its not

[trim plaza]

lets u focus what happens around u

what tanks want

[hazy mural]

ur basically cutting the usage of DG

[lucid arrow]

ye but how do u quantify

the benefit

like obviously it's worth it even tho it does 30% less healing cus ppl take the (presumably) unbugged dg over doc

when does the pendulum swing

50? 60? 70?

[trim plaza]

tbh i would just not play reinvi if i have DG

[hazy mural]

when u FR more, u use DG less, when u need to FR more, thats also when party damage is usually highest

[odd cave]

reinvig also consumes DoC 🙁

[hazy mural]

so the times it would be used the most is also when ur gonna eat into it with FR the most

[trim plaza]

y but thats why it lay of hands us

[rustic kestrel]

I mean its preference right? If you feel like you can help with manual offhealing, you take DoC. If you feel like you cant spare the globals or brainpower, then its not as worth it.

[trim plaza]

DG doesnt do shit for us

[rustic kestrel]

I pug a lot, so Im perma DoC, because it literally can save keys

[hazy mural]

it does if u go under 40

[forest flume]

that's the point though

you press FR and get a huge heal right off the bat

[hazy mural]

id use doc more if my nameplates were stable tbh

but im playing a minigame with nameplates when fighting enough adds

[rustic kestrel]

...raid frames?

[still locust]

I mean DG is just fine

[forest flume]

just play a fast paced FPS before playing wow, as a warmup

[hazy mural]

yh, click someone then have to click back to the mobs I mean

[rustic kestrel]

why click, mouseover

[lucid arrow]

click mobs?

[rustic kestrel]

arent you a healer

[hazy mural]

they have some spasm and just dont wanna be clicked properly, asnd then they also arent lined up well

[lucid arrow]

for what? not like you have any st abilities

[hazy mural]

eww shooter

[trim plaza]

I mean yes but bulok got good point DoC u have the choice to help who is actually gonna die but ye it takes global from u

[odd cave]

its just annoying that DOC doesnt stack at all, any time you use FR you are using all charges, dream guide stacking to 4 is sweet

[still locust]

They both stack the same

[lucid arrow]

surely u can check a log to see what final dg healing is when accounting for reinvig eating it

[still locust]

Last I checked you can't really FR enough to consume all charges out of incarn

[lucid arrow]

and go from there

[still locust]

Side note, it's not 30% less healing

[rustic kestrel]

u r confused

[odd cave]

DOC absolutely not stackingfor me

[hazy mural]

I me an I think u really want DG and Reinv together, if u wanna go for it, thats for u to decide

[rustic kestrel]

The stacks stack up and consume in the exact same way

[odd cave]

oh now it is

weird

[lucid arrow]

huh?

[odd cave]

before it didnt just RNG i guess

[lucid arrow]

doc has 130% more healing dg has 100

[still locust]

DG is 200% of a regrowth, and DOC is 230%. It's 15% difference

[hazy mural]

thrash nerfs all over again

[forest flume]

I'm looking at a 23 windrunner parse, Andy's regrowth did 7.4m with DG, and I'm looking at 21 windrunner by our very own Bulok (who's playing a dotc he's a legend), his regrowth did 13m with DoC

With this sample size of 2 keys, I think the case is settled

[rustic kestrel]

HUGE SAMPLE SIZE

[lucid arrow]

but how much is going to allies

in each case

[forest flume]

Although Bulok's overhealed by a fair bit, he likes to pad

not a lot xd

He is selfish

[lucid arrow]

id take a huge self healing hit to heal allies tbh

not like I'm the one dying

[trim plaza]

What u value more

U are already immortal

[rustic kestrel]

Random DG healing can be usesless, where when im looking at healthbars on say first boss of Windrunner, I can specifically choose whos getting heals

Thats why I Like it with pugging

If I save a person even 1/5 keys, thats 30 mins i just saved

[lucid arrow]

mby ill try it out but if it shifts me out of bear ill crash out

[forest flume]

Yeah group rotting down to 40% you know the healer will heal everyone in a second, someone getting hit by a random ability and goes to 15% with aoe incoming, you can snipe someone to full

[rustic kestrel]

You don't have to run it

[still locust]

DG healing is almost never useless

[hazy mural]

idk, I have the opposite opinion as a healer... the fact that its 40 pct means it dosent overheal a lot and it happens when ppl actually appreciate the healing

[rustic kestrel]

its just showing you the option is there

[rustic kestrel]

I can lose 3 dg charges at the end of a damage phase, it can be useless often

its not always

[hazy mural]

a good healer lets ppl get low anyways and if ppl are getting to 40 pct and not gonna die soon, more time to dps

[rustic kestrel]

But like I said, if i save a person even 1/5 keys, its worth it to me

[still locust]

Ye, this

[still locust]

Yeah but you're wrong so I win

[rustic kestrel]

ur right

[hazy mural]

I do agree it sucks when it runs out of time

[violet holly]

haha get rekt

[hazy mural]

but DOC does the same too

[still locust]

Yeah you hit the same issue with DoC

If you plan to save someone with DoC right as your healer does a big pop

[hazy mural]

make it 2 mins DAMMIT

[still locust]

Then DoC is wasted too (or healer pop is wasted)

[odd cave]

i doubt my ability to cast regrowth better than a robot can tbh

[hazy mural]

look at that dg overheal!

[lucid arrow]

ye i think id end up doing it too suboptimally

[violet holly]

generally having control over stuff is better than not, but in this case I feel like having it auto proc is mostly fine

[odd cave]

i would rather run DG even if its less optimal because i think manually pressing regrowth would be even less optimal

[hazy mural]

they at minimum kinda become the same value when u look at gcds and brainpower spent on doc

[odd cave]

because I am not good enough to watch party health bars carefully enough, while also doing all other tank things

[rustic kestrel]

unless you have the brainpower to do it

(I do)

[rustic spade]

what is the fastest viod light marl farm?

[still locust]

My advice continues to be this, in order of recommendation:

If you have reinvig, you SHOULD be DoC always
If you don't have reinvig, and don't care about off-healing, you should be DG
If you don't have reinvig, and you want to off-heal manually, you should be DoC

[violet holly]

you either choose to hold a DoC for the correct time(and not have it because time ran out) or have DG auto proc a number of times where you might not need it and then dont have when you need it most

[hazy mural]

if DG bug was fixed, u just run DG even more

[lucid arrow]

weird flex but ok

[still locust]

Ritual Sites

[hazy mural]

humble brag right there

[rustic kestrel]

People use these brain power arguments all the time like NOBODY could possibly do these things

[hazy mural]

must be nice having brainpower

[still locust]

The downside of DoC is also that to get max benefit you might have to manually cast it when you could have cast a thrash or a ravage

Which is the correct choice

But a loss nonetheless

[lucid arrow]

well bro obviously it's not easy to do these things

[summer hatch]

what key levels ru sending

[lucid arrow]

otherwise we'd all be 22 gamers

[rustic kestrel]

Like last night I saved a dude on first pull of Skyreach because eagle aoe lined up with 2nd eagles target wind blast... i regrowthed him mid tick and he lived 10%

[odd cave]

im sure there are some people who can do these things im just not one of them

[lucid arrow]

18

[summer hatch]

fair

i honestly don’t think i live some things playing doc

[hazy mural]

M+ is quite brain demanding compared to other things tbh

[summer hatch]

dg is pretty cute

[hazy mural]

and tanks have it the worst

[rustic kestrel]

i didnt say it was easy

[hazy mural]

and now they have taken my beloved BW thrash away from me

[rustic kestrel]

But people like to yap about brain globals and act like no gamer in the world can focus on more than 1 thing at once

[violet holly]

what is BW

[hazy mural]

Big Wigs

[summer hatch]

what key level?

[rustic kestrel]

22

[violet holly]

ah I knew you were inventing new acronyms

[summer hatch]

gg

[hazy mural]

I miss having the thrash mechanics on voice

[summer hatch]

ur a wild gamer

wcyd

[rustic kestrel]

the 22 didnt make it to boss 2

😵‍💫

[summer hatch]

i’m a pitiful dg player

[still locust]

DG would have saved it for sure

[rustic kestrel]

TRUE

[hazy mural]

1 defensive?

[rustic kestrel]

theres nothing wrong with playing dream guide

[hazy mural]

1 pot?

[forest flume]

Bulok is the anti-anti-apex bear, respect, even in 22s

[rustic kestrel]

IM NOT SAYING THERE IS

[hazy mural]

too late

[violet holly]

bad tank didnt pull correctly so the whatever mob synced the whatever skill and killed the dps

[still locust]

Bulok fucking HATES DG

[rustic kestrel]

Brybear has resil 21 with dotc

[hazy mural]

ur called before the court to answer for ur crimes

[still locust]

You heard it here first

[hazy mural]

DG HATER! DG HATER!

https://tenor.com/view/shame-bell-game-of-thrones-walk-of-atonement-cersei-lannister-gif-16635977892557113898

[forest flume]

Yeah I was watching him last night, respect as well

[lucid arrow]

well ya also nobody said the human brains limit is picking doc over dg

but it is very difficult for a lot of people

[rustic kestrel]

yes it is

[still locust]

Bulok is a known auto-heal hater

He hates DG

He hates AtW

He hates MoY

Nothing but a hater

[hazy mural]

bet he hates healers too

they auto heal ppl

[forest flume]

At least he doesn't hate us (maybe)

[still locust]

Yeah, healers steal his cool moments to snipe with DoC

[rustic kestrel]

ok but this is actually true unironiocally

[odd cave]

then they complain they had to heal

[lucid arrow]

maybe if u look deep inside u bulok

u can find out why u hate auto heals

maybe it stems from childhood auto heal trauma

[forest flume]

I think this no-apex build becoming the "norm" broke Bulok

it will take time to recover

[clear atlas]

Man I miss DF AtW

[hazy mural]

it will take some time, but I hope Bulok auto heals from this wound

[forest flume]

amen

[rustic kestrel]

i dont hate atw, i hate how much lesser it is now

[still locust]

Well duh it was OP

[forest flume]

Holding resources for a well timed AtW was 10/10 gameplay

[clear atlas]

LOVED that

[rustic kestrel]

make atw do like 30% more, and make it a button press

and oh pappy we are so back

[forest flume]

Use 2 SI to not die, BUT top everyone, easy

[violet holly]

the og healing skill

[hazy mural]

I remember telling ranged to come closer for h eals

[forest flume]

and that brings us to the 2-SI war, we lost soldiers that day

[violet holly]

those needed to die btw

[hazy mural]

remember the blueberry mobs in Shadowmoon?

or Khajin in Halls

[clear atlas]

shadowmoon

ooooooof

[hazy mural]

ATW heaven in those places

[clear atlas]

wild how much more balanced dungeons are now

[forest flume]

rdruid dream

[hazy mural]

[forest flume]

hp bars going down and up non-stop

[hazy mural]

rdruids can go die in a tree fire

[forest flume]

thats me about moonkins

[hazy mural]

I mean thats how everyone feels about moonkins tho

[still locust]

[hazy mural]

https://tenor.com/view/you-know-im-right-sheldon-cooper-big-bang-theory-you-know-it-gif-5055727

[jaunty dragon]

Are you guys having a hard time with AA? Doing +20 with pugs the timer just feels insane and big pulls just causes wipe on vexus with triple pulls

[sonic quest]

What m+ key is the easiest to tank for bear and what one is hardest ?

[late basin]

Both ends of the bell curve in two posts. ^

[forest flume]

Do you have a specific dungeon you're having trouble with or just curious? Because easy/difficult depends on how you pull

[rough quartz]

I think I might be challenged, but how do I use heart of the wild correctly? I've tried using it while in bear, and also shifting to cat form then casting ff. Still doesn't show that I used it on logs.

[clear atlas]

casting that FF IS hotw

[sonic quest]

Nexus point . Felt on edge of death . WR felt like a god

[clear atlas]

the ability turns form depending on your shapeshift.

[rough quartz]

That's what I thought

[clear atlas]

Defenders in Nexus are criminal

[still locust]

It doesn't show as a cast on logs

No clue why

Blizz issue

[rough quartz]

Like I swapped to cat, pressed FF, then no FF on logs

[still locust]

You should see FF damage, just no cast

[forest flume]

feel like if its MW healing you, they can remove the stacking debuff quite fast and it becomes less criminal

[daring nymph]

boomies be like

my steak is to juicy

and my lobster is to buttery

[marble wraith]

With the triple vex pull you need to assign 1 DPS to each mana caster can't remember name, and for the books you need to stun the mobs when all books are casting, then let the cast go through it'll hit everyone but you and just incapable roar and books won't cast for like 20-30secs basically until they're dead then it becomes more manageable

Obvs harder with pugs that they'll do it but yea letting books cast then cancelling is so much better than cancelling the cast BC they just recast

Just need to sync up the casts with cc first

[stoic marsh]

o/

guys that one

is there a way to let it proc more

or my luck in ground 🙁

every 10 casts or 15 casts only proc one

[pearl dew]

its better to be lucky than to be right, so go get some more luck

[rustic kestrel]

its probably casting way more than you realize

[stoic marsh]

but nothing to let it proc more right

[olive hare]

Flashing claws is super rng heavy since it doesnt have any bad luck protection baked in. You can have a 10 thrash straight and no proc, or 1 cast proccing 4 thrashes.

[rustic kestrel]

press thrash

[pearl dew]

if you want we can start a rumor that if you shift in and out of bear form it resets the rng so it procs more

[forest flume]

the jackpot would be to cast thrash once in your key and having it proc all the way to the end

[rustic kestrel]

technically possible

my max chain is 6

[gilded ridge]

Bros i need help with Skyreach
how do you mitigate the damage from the fiery talon debuff from the adepts mobs?

[rustic kestrel]

by walking away

Typhoon/Ursols/Incap roar

[gilded ridge]

just like that huh

aight

[olive hare]

Yeah literally, just dont facetank those as soon as your stack counter reaches 4-5.

[gilded ridge]

and the shear debuff?

[rustic kestrel]

panic

(hit a defensive)

[gilded ridge]

figured

[olive hare]

Doesnt even feel that bad as bear

[gilded ridge]

aight

[rustic kestrel]

Youll need to live without a defensive during the pack and have one for it, as the tankbuster wil hit you for 60% of your max health on higher keys

and will overlap with things to kill you

[forest flume]

I died to Shear on SR-20, it was not a pleasant pull (the one after bird boss)

[rustic kestrel]

yup

[forest flume]

I think it hit for 500k, i was not ready

may have played badly (prob did)

[rustic kestrel]

any other source of damage + that buster is death without a defensive

[olive hare]

Having a dps comp with a couple spare braincells also makes those two pulls so much easier to live.

just weave in a couple of AoE ccs, slows or whatever makes such a difference