guardian

[merry quest]

Press it, it does damage, get a shield

if it hits more targets, it gets bigger shield

(to a point)

[wind sedge]

So i do ( simple numbers ) 100k dmg and get a 50k shield?

[olive compass]

check your overall leech healing at the end of a key

leech is insane

[merry quest]

no, youd do 100k damage and get a 100k shield (absorb is the correct word tbf) which will block 50% of any damage you take until its blocked 100k total

[still locust]

Leech is okay

Just like speed is okay

And avoidance is okay

[fallen robin]

Shield value is buffed by Mastery too, no?

[wind sedge]

Wouldnt i get way more value out of heart or a stat stick? Proggin Resi 21 atm and in number Terms its kinda low def cd ? Even for Tank buster as Def its not that much no?

[merry quest]

Usually these are buffed in the sense that it increases damge done, same as vers

But could double dip, haven’t checked

[merry quest]

Some yes, some no - that’s your judgment call

Both are fine to consider

[quaint pond]

mastery has no effect on trinket damage

it would work as normal on the absorb

[void magnet]

[wind sedge]

Is there an addon that i can use to track the buff how much "absorb" the scale gives? Trying with arc ui atm

[lone flare]

it should reflect accurately on your frames

dander's frames have different visualization options for shields/absorbs so you can choose how it shows

default ones show it also, but they'll clip it unless it's a really significant shield I think

[subtle cypress]

How do you deal with this pull in NPX? There are 4 Defenders with their heal absorbs.

[half surge]

bro theres a pull with 6 defenders as 1st pull

4 defenders is not that bad

[wind sedge]

Yes it does, but i would love to see the absorb only from the scale as buff. On my Bars is combined with other absorbs

[lone flare]

wellll, you do lust that one

[still locust]

Do you have lust for both?

[half surge]

nope, u just have lust for first one

[still locust]

A common tactic is to spec into dream of cenarius and 2/2 reinvigoration

Pressing frenzied regen just nukes the healing absorbs if you have a DoC proc then

[lone flare]

I don't think the game supports this, or if it does then I am just unaware of it, why do you want it specifically to be separated in your UI? it doesn't really change your gameplay in any way

[subtle cypress]

so this is one of the "just tank it"

[half surge]

yes, also theres no shame in little kiting

[still locust]

I mean yeah, with some prep you can have 4 lay on hands ready for the pull

2/2 reinvig + a DoC proc heals for a lot

[half surge]

route where yday i almost +2 the 18 npx

1st pack is a pain yes, but with incarn bl and all the stuff its very doable

[wind sedge]

Thats true, kinda for testing to see if it is worth but i guess ill just check logs after

[lone flare]

yeah, logs is the clearest regardless

[lone flare]

I feel like I always have incarn for that third pull

[half surge]

yeah u kinda should

[lone flare]

just about coming off cooldown from what I remember

[half surge]

the seer is nuts...

[whole meadow]

Is there anyways to track or notify the 4 piece buff called Celestial Might?

[still locust]

AFAIK only the default overlay visual that shows up, similar to gore and galactic guardian

If you've turned that off, you won't see it

[subtle cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enN1MoH9wJc
Heres a recording of my struggle with the 4 defenders.

Maybe I should have used all my cds on this pull?

my next run in a +16 went pretty much similarly. Healer did not send a single heal in that one. Should I be able to just do that one alone?

[robust cargo]

2:34 to 2:48, 14 seconds with your lunar beam ready for use

[summer hatch]

this was the most depressing thing i just watched

u took 18 trillion backshots

don’t press beam on cd

[past olive]

backshots dont matter on bear

you only dodge from front, but if not much crit then doesnt matter

[summer hatch]

u don’t press si

what

dawg bear has like 20-30% dodge

saying backshots don’t matter is troll

[subtle cypress]

good point, I will focus hard on this.
Would have allowed me to have self-heals up on the pull

[summer hatch]

press ur cds

press si

[slim tinsel]

is light of elune significantly better than astral insight? the m+ build on wowhead has insight but I see most ppl running light of elune

[summer hatch]

press beam

beam is #1 prio

si is big dr

u just sit on both charges

[subtle cypress]

I went in here thinking I don't have to blow ALL of my coolies in this pack

but I was wrong

[summer hatch]

i mean defenders hurt a lot yeah

[still locust]

Insight was better for a bit after they giga buffed thrash, but now I think light of elune is better again. It also really depends on your build, because if you're playing the thrash+MF only build, then the rage gen from light of elune is more value

[summer hatch]

but like si has 2 charges

u can press 1 and still have one

[subtle cypress]

I was reviewing my +16 recording where I spend 2x SI, 2x regeneration, barkskin and still die to defenders 😄

but I didn't use incarn too. Should have but didn't.

I'll put this one on the "low morale" death.

[half surge]

again nothing shameful in kiting...

dont forget u have typhoon

and ursol vortex

yes melee gonna hate u probably

but who cares as long as tank lives

[subtle cypress]

tbh, today is the first time ever this has been a problem but I just started reviewing my fuckups from videos to actually learn something.

[hazy mural]

just remember

dps are stupid

[olive compass]

fuck me i got items from myth raid for the first time on two chars since season release

[hazy mural]

they think with their w eapons

[carmine sandal]

And bears think with their butts

[half surge]

fluffy butts, thats the correction

https://tenor.com/view/amine-girl-wink-gif-21894959

[golden vigil]

In the recommended default M+ build, are there any notable flex points?

[jolly plinth]

this channel made me so much gold today

thanks for spreading the 3 stam enchant news

[daring nymph]

did

did i miss something?

[covert stone]

Did we get any change on the guardian on last reset?

[still locust]

3 stam enchant

Who the fuck in their right mind would spend any amount of gold on 3 stam

[copper hornet]

When you die to 300 overkill you'll remember this

[still locust]

I won't because I'm old and my memory is shit

[hazy mural]

NEVER! ITS THE CLAWS!

[lean minnow]

I got given this egg in raid last night. Is it any good?

[copper hornet]

no

[olive compass]

i would call it a crest save but its not anymore kek

[kindred meteor]

is the wind runner spire weapon fine?

[still locust]

Yes

Any myth weapon is good

Stats aren't that important for us

If you end up with 2 myth weapons you can sim which is better but it's much more important having ANY myth weapon than the BEST myth weapon

[lean minnow]

leech or Avoidance?

[olive compass]

leech

tahts crazy btw

[lean minnow]

xD oh I know

[hazy mural]

my man is drowning in cream

[raven briar]

Does chest piece from seat anything or it’s just „niche“?

[jolly plinth]

heavy knothide armor kit

get on it

[hazy mural]

as the crafting regulator, I believe I have to inform you that you have to add Sponsored by Big Leather

[jolly plinth]

that's all i need to say.

[hazy mural]

sometimes im unprofessional

[jolly plinth]

i rest my case

[still locust]

You can tell when people started flipping it

[rustic viper]

where did u rest it and whats inside

[jolly plinth]

purchase my knothide kits no sponsorship disclosed

[still locust]

It went up to 5k 2 hours ago

5k for 3 stam

[jolly plinth]

heavy leather

[rustic viper]

[real cedar]

hey guys, I have a quick question, is there a big difference between dream of cenarius and Dream guide, I often find it awkward to use with my current binds.

[still locust]

If you find dream of cenarius awkward to use, you can swap to dreamguide

Or if you have reinvigoration you can stay with dream of cenarius and just let frenzied regen use it

[real cedar]

I'm not currently running reinvigoration

[still locust]

Then I would just swap to dreamguide

It's entirely passive and almost as strong

[real cedar]

cool cool

thats what I figured but i wanted a sanity check

[still locust]

Quick note is that if you have reinvigoration you should be dream of cenarius because frenzied regen with reinvig will consume dreamguide stacks without giving any benefit

[real cedar]

good to know

[unborn dock]

Isn't it the other way around ?

[quick schooner]

Well, after vault im down to missing 4 myth items which 2 are rings. Is adviced to go for npx ones? I bonus rolled once in seat but i heard avo is big nono on tanks and i dunno if i should roll on seat or npx

[still locust]

If you have reinvig you should be dream of cenarius, because dream guide will lose a lot of value from reinvig consuming stacks without doing anything. It works normally with dream of cenarius and both talents multiply their effects
If you don't have reinvig you can play whichever based on personal preference (I recommend dream guide because it's automatic)

[half surge]

guys need a help with vault

should i open as feral or guardian? i have trinkets/weapons

kinda missing the mythic nonset

[still locust]

Unless someone who already counted knows, your best bet is just counting item drops if you want to minmax your chance

[rustic viper]

if u have trinks and wep it barely matters

[still locust]

You only have to count trinkets for guardian loot spec and feral loot spec

[still locust]

It can still matter, if guardian has 38 items and feral only has 36 items then feral is a slightly higher chance of getting that belt (or whatever) you need

[rustic viper]

there's prolly less tank trinkets

but im just guessing

[still locust]

The simplest way to count is to go guardian, put into droptimizer on raidbots, untick the "offspec items" box and count

[half surge]

so... feral or guard

[still locust]

Then go feral and repeat on droptimizer

[still locust]

If you don't wanna count, just assume they're similar

[rustic viper]

could also open as resto or balance if u ever wanna off spec them

[still locust]

But that's definitely worse for off-piece items

[half surge]

how do i setup droptimizer?

[still locust]

Since you get 2h, 1h and oh

[rustic viper]

i see it like this, if it drops a weapon, it'd drop an agi one if I wasnt

kek

ofc impossible to know, but I feel better that way

[still locust]

This is all you need, then scroll down to trinkets and count

Then respec, put into droptimizer again, and make sure you're still on the same settings (it saves per spec)

[rustic viper]

now can we get an interchangable leg enchant plz

[still locust]

The important bit is that you're on all dungeons, and you don't have "include off-spec items" on

12.1 usually for leg enchant

[half surge]

wellp

[rustic viper]

I hate going bear with int enchant

[half surge]

this is not as good but it has 2 slots i can replace with mythic

[covert salmon]

Are seasonal caps removed for crests?

[rustic viper]

apparently

[half surge]

yes

removed

[covert salmon]

nice

[rustic viper]

farm to your hearts content

upgrade all the things

[prisma ore]

I have a myth Arcaneclaw Spear and a myth Alncorned Spire, which one should I ascend?

[still locust]

Sim it but they're probably close

[faint ember]

i got the puzzle box from vault today, and i am a bit confused how a tank should use that trinket

[tall basin]

don't take or use it^^

[faint ember]

but i took it 😄

[faint ember]

but it seems to be very popular, so was just thinking how/when, prepull, during a cast on st or smth

[tall basin]

where do you see that this is popular?

[stiff phoenix]

I bonus rolled it :’(

[faint ember]

i mean the data shows it on archon on the timed runs which trinkets are being used

[stiff phoenix]

Why using int?

[tall basin]

i wouldn't say that 4,1% is popular

[sharp gale]

archon data 🫵 😹

[tall basin]

he say he uses archon. so i wanted to check if archon is really that sh*t XD

[faint ember]

yeah but i am not exactly doing keys in that category so i would look at the 7-23 split where it is fairly popular

but thank you for the responses

[tall basin]

okay on 7-22 it's also ww or gaze so idk

[faint ember]

yeah but i was looking for where and when to use it, but thank you

[tall basin]

ye you can go puzzle box sure.
but the 2 sec cast is really stupid midfight.
so you need to pre cast it. and miss maybe 5-10 sec of the trinket (because after this you will collect the pull)

the only "cool" use is puzzle box + HotW (cat form) on boss (maybe but not sure)

[faint ember]

well, i'll play around with it and see

[tall basin]

maybe some fancy stuff like vortex + moveback + puzzle work in some pulls

[faint ember]

thank you! will give it a go 🙂

[rustic viper]

cuz im focusing on balance

and resto to an extent

but sometimes a fella wants to bear it

[stiff phoenix]

Yeah fair, I started resto got to 3k and decided to bear it so I was the same for a bit tbf

While I was still holding onto the resto dream

I don’t think it’s noticeable tbh

[rugged minnow]

Puzzlebox could be awkward if you're new to it, but especially with the braindead EC build nowadays, you can just collect mobs -> thrash -> puzzlebox -> thrash. Instead of collect mobs -> thrash -> moonfire -> thrash.

Missing 1 MF is negligible

[amber ocean]

Puzzle box is definitely much better in raid than in M+, but yeah - you’ll be mainly using it on bosses in M+ anyway. If you want to use it before a big pack - you can press Survival Instincts, box, and then go into burst

[rugged minnow]

Puzzlebox cast is hasted iirc, so especially during BL it only costs you ~1 GCD

[rustic viper]

lmao, its a bit the opposite for me, started out as brew until 3.2k or so, now leaining into dps and healing

as much as I like ww I dont rly like mw, so dru it is

[cloud mantle]

indeed it is

[fiery loom]

Gloom splatter scale is good in m+

[amber ocean]

It's what I'm using 🙂 Gloom, that is. Gloom + gaze for M+, Box + gaze for raid

[faint ember]

thank you!

[olive hare]

Tbf people largely overestimate the danger of using it midpull. Youre Not exactly in danger while channeling it. Just gotta establish threat first.

Its just some dodge youre Missing out on

[still locust]

And only for (usually) 1 or maybe 2 auto attacks per mob, and that's assuming they're not casting anything

[olive hare]

Yeah. I mean its not like we are BDKs, for them the 2gcds of no parry and no BB DS can be difficult to fit in.

[still locust]

Or pwar/ppala where you live or die based on blocks

[long thorn]

idk if this is answered here , but is it worth to ascended voidforge a heroic alnseer when you know you probably will never get it in myth ?

[amber ocean]

Yeah that’s fair. I mean I know sometimes it’s a decent chunk before you’ve got IF going, which is why I prefer popping an SI, but its more a precaution and not a need

[long thorn]

or is a myth trinket from dungeons better

[still locust]

Probably, but you could sim this in raidbots topgear

[amber ocean]

You can easily grind another ascended core, so… sim it

[still locust]

It's likely heart of wind (or whatever the name is) from WRS is better at 298 than 285 gaze

But yeah cores aren't awful to get at this point, so you could always send it and look for a replacement trinket in the meantime

[olive hare]

Thats fine yeah. And If youre entering a fresh pull you'd be dumping a Bark/SI anyways, so its not really a wasted defensive

[amber ocean]

Yeah exactly 😄

But as I said, I mainly use the dragons trinket anyway

Much less clunky for M+

[elder pier]

gloomscale is goated

[rough quarry]

hello, does someone have an exwind profile for guardian ?

[dusk zinc]

Yo quick question for mythic saladbar when do yall tank swap? How many stacks or just wait for shattering twilight and swap then?

[trim plaza]

puzzle/heart of wind sims better than gaze/feather, bro puzzle is too op

[amber ocean]

10 or so stacks

That’s how we did it anyway - worked out that I usually ended up getting the TB and my co tank did most of the movement

[earnest hound]

No matter how good it is, no way I'll sacrifice my sanity. It's sooo clunky and unfun to use.

[trim plaza]

only using it in raid myself, not in dungeons so u got a point

[dusk zinc]

Ya makes sense that way.
Im doing most of the movement tho other tanks a paly so thinking of getting him to take all the shattering stars

[brazen tinsel]

idk how good pally is for those

bear is super good for it however

we just did it so that my cotank took 12 stacks, then i taunted and kept until the star

was the perfect timing for his stacks to drop and taunt back

dunno if that's the "ideal" way but we winged it like that week 1 and worked out super fine

[dusk zinc]

Im doing the movement cus overall bear faster then paly

[rugged minnow]

The window for taunt swaps is very forgiving, I usually go to about 16 stacks, PWar/BDK/Brew co-tank (yes he alts that many specs) taunts to take the stars, then I'd taunt back once my stacks drop, generally this was doable without the boss chasing after his cast

[brazen tinsel]

that really doesnt matter tho

you dont want to be giga zooming around anyways or your melee will lose uptime

[rugged minnow]

Yeah it's mostly who's the most comfortable/best at quick maths for max boss/orb uptime

[brazen tinsel]

yea

[dusk zinc]

Ya anyways didnt come in to talk about the movement, got side tracked. Just wondering when yall doing swaps

[sullen hollow]

Random question, trying to figure out I'm pulling mobs when I tab target onto them out of combat. It's happened twice now in a key where I've just finished a pack, accidentally tab targeted a mob (but didn't cast anything), then they get pulled

Presume it's a talent doing it or something but can't figure out which

[brazen tinsel]

WN afaik

[rugged minnow]

Anywhere between 10 and 16 stacks is fine afaik. 17 is doable too, I think even 18 but with 18 you might have to let the boss move to the other tank for a sec to drop your debuff

[golden vigil]

How are people using HotW in keys? When is it ever even safe to shift out of bear form? I feel like there are a lot of times where I’d love to pop a HotW heal to help my healer out or pop a FF for damage, but I worry about dying in the process.

[sullen hollow]

thought it might be that but they aren't taking any damage when they get pulled - does the nightmare procing but not thrashing yet still pull?

[brazen tinsel]

almost every boss has long ass cast times where you can safely pop into cat and FF

and even if you take a single melee from a boss for it, youre fine

i wouldnt do it in a pack tho as EC

[brazen tinsel]

youre sure all mobs are full hp?

[sullen hollow]

yep 100%

mob walking to me with no damage taken

[brazen tinsel]

have a clip or log

[sullen hollow]

unfortunately not

will log future keys and try to catch it if it happens again

just very odd

[tribal zinc]

Happened to me multiple times in either the timed or untimed nexus I can't remember

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V6ZgTvRrKcNB31HF

pretty sure they re-introduced bug with lunar beam being able to pull aggro from anything by targetting it

[kindred meteor]

I have a problem with aggro

[sullen hollow]

it's always right after I finish a pack yeah, so could be that

[tall basin]

be more aggressive!

[kindred meteor]

does the starfall thing help ?

might be cuz im playing with 285+ and im 260 rn lol

[tall basin]

maybe for collecting stuff like AA
but ye this is then more a ilvl problem^^

[amber ocean]

Yeah you can definitely do it that way

[kindred meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-cat-thumbs-up-cat-cry-thumbs-up-crying-cat-ok-cat-gif-5747260357834857776

[trim plaza]

brother, do i see intellect trinket as bear

[kindred meteor]

didnt even notice wth

[cloud mantle]

smart bear > dumb bear

[kindred meteor]

I even upgraded it, wth

#1 bear ?

[olive hare]

Yeah in AA first pull its a blessing when playing with shitty dps players. Not for collecting, but ensuring snapthreat. The collecting itself is just moonfiring a mob of every lasher pack and letting them approach you at the same time. But yeah, dps brain, zug zug, gets rocked, releases, pull goes to shits, you know how it goes with pug dps.

[long barn]

Hey guys, do you think my iron fur uptime is too low? I’m trying to almost press it on cd but sometimes I just don’t have the rage for it.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J7TywD6H38Qzatmn?fight=2&type=auras&source=1

[cloud mantle]

unless I'm mistaken it shows you have almost 88% uptime, that's fine

[long barn]

Ok just making sure that was ok. I was fishing through logs and saw most guardian druids around 91-93%.

[rugged minnow]

88% is very fine yeah, also it's better to look at damage taken -> melee hits then filter for melee hits taken without ironfur up (and perhaps also without CDs up)

[long barn]

Excellent idea, thank you.

[rugged minnow]

If I'm not in danger, I sometimes just let Barkskin or SI carry me while I dump more rage into Mauls/Ravages while sitting at 0 ironfurs. Obviously this isn't always smart to do, but it's not necessarily bad either

[brazen tinsel]

well they are playing razeless ec so there is no other ragedump really

you took about 40 melees without IF up in that pit key, that's a bit much

[rugged minnow]

Yeah fair, it's not as relevant currently in m+ as it used to be

[brazen tinsel]

in my pit i took about 20 without IF and that is already a bit too many imho

[rugged minnow]

45 melees, of which 36 hit. RNG ofc, but still. 24 were taken completely naked (no Bark, no SI, no Ironfur)

[trim plaza]

nopex prob?

[brazen tinsel]

ye

[trim plaza]

like if u play noapex, u should have almost 0 downtime in IF

in combat

[rugged minnow]

Considering the avg hit was only 122k, which is nothing, it's whatever imo

But yeah, noapex should have extremely high uptime on IF

[long barn]

That’s not good, on a higher key that could kill me. Guess I have to be a little more strategic with my cd usage.

[brazen tinsel]

in my dotc 21 i took 9 without IF

[trim plaza]

when u get 6 of those back to back it starts to tickle

[brazen tinsel]

that's about where it should be probs

[rugged minnow]

True

[brazen tinsel]

sure it's whatever in a 15 but it's a bad habit

that should be fixed

[rugged minnow]

Uptime % can be very misleading in general especially in m+ though, but yeah

[long barn]

I wonder if that’s when I’m entering a pack or mid-way through it when I took some naked melee swings.

[trim plaza]

might be, but barskin saves u from those until u get mitigation rolling

[rugged minnow]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J7TywD6H38Qzatmn?fight=2&type=damage-taken&source=1&view=events&sourcebuffs=-192081

Looks like it's mostly the first pull where you're gathering + the leaping geists later on, before 2nd boss

Definitely something to look out for and fix, especially the first pull. But geists won't really hurt even on an 18+ (still best to fix it ofc)

[long barn]

Great advice, definitely something I can improve on. Yeah I get sloppy on the gathering because I know dps is just waiting to explode (especially ret pallies)

[cloud mantle]

just tell them not to nut prematurely smh

[olive hare]

If they start unloading 1st pull pit before the pull is stacked onto the npc jokes on them. Let em have it, the walk of shame is short enough to not hurt the timer too much.

[shy berry]

EC Thrash/Moonfire opener question for M+

Is this correct / optimal?

1. Stampeding Roar to gather / moonfire if gathering large pull
2. Charge/Taunt + Barkskin just before contact
3. Thrash
4. Lunar Beam
5. ~~Swipe ~~Rake to shift Cat -> apply Rake
6. HotW
7. Mangle to shift Bear + generate Rage
8. Thrash + Moonfire to 4 Thrash stacks
9. Incarn
10. Thrash
11. Sundering Roar
12. Thrash
13. Continue Thrash/Moonfire spam

Mainly unsure about:

• Best timing for Incarn & lunar beam
• Whether HotW/Rake is worth in opener
• If Lunar Beam should be delayed until Incarn
• Whether I should be reaching 4x Thrash before Incarn

If anyone could point me to where I can see what order top players use these buttons on m+ pulls I'd appreciate it

[trim plaza]

u can also throw lunar beam from range before first trash

[still locust]

You don't swipe to enter cat, and once you're already in cat you don't rake. If you have the talent Fluid Form specced, you use rake to enter cat form. If you don't have fluid form, you manually enter cat form. Technically speaking it's a small gain to wait with lunar beam until you've entered cat form and right before you press HOTW

[ember parrot]

Best way to deal with algethar first pull without relying on party members? Every guide ive seen is either it dies stupid fast or they have an evoker

[shy berry]

Sorry that's what I meant - rake to enter car form and apply the dot, not swipe

[trim plaza]

gather everything to middle, mark one lasher with skull to be focus target and hope pack dies before u ran out of gas

[shy berry]

Other tanks have to kite that pack due to the dot so you can always kite although I've never had to kite as bear

[shy berry]

Is it safe to cast lunar beam in cat form then HotW? As both are on GCD is there not a risk of being outside the 2 second grace window before swapping back?

[still locust]

Which 2 second grace period do you mean?

The only "grace period" we have is persistence, and that's like 6 seconds or something

[cloud mantle]

if you are thinking about maximising feral frenzy's damage, note that the dot is 6 seconds and lunar beam is like 11 if EC

[burnt sandal]

Couple options since phoon/ursols don’t work. You can run forest walk and kite them in bear or you can hit SI go travel and use wild leap so you are outta melee and just kite until it falls off

[still locust]

Well you also "waste" 2 globals inside lunar beam window while shifting to and from cat form

Which is the main gain

[burnt sandal]

Travel can be a little sketchy in high keys because you lose your IF stacks and have to go back into the pull sorta naked

[cloud mantle]

true, which would basically be thrash and a moonfire? small gain but probably not super important

[rocky flame]

is the 4 pc completly useless if we are playing the m+ build?

[trim plaza]

if u are playing no apex build*

[still locust]

There's 1 out of 6 viable builds that it doesn't do anything for

But there's no point thinking about it

You can't get significantly better stats from off-pieces

[violet holly]

hey, is it worth crafting an item if I already have a max myth in that slot?

I didn't craft anything this tier

wondering if its worth getting like a wrist or whatever for the embellishments

[brazen tinsel]

Yea it's worth it

Best to choose small stat slots like wrists and cloak

[violet holly]

oki doki

[shut jasper]

potentially loa worshipper ring over one of those, but it's a question for the sim

[violet holly]

nice, I will add that to the sim

since my remaining non myth slot is a ring

how do I add embellishments in the sim? Am I blind or there is no option for it in the droptimizer?

[shut jasper]

after you added the item click the little + next to it

on top gear

[violet holly]

ah ok, has to be top gear, thanks

[shut jasper]

yeah, droptimizer doesn't work with embellishments

[little karma]

does anyone know why im at like 17% versa in open world and the second i enter a key i drop to 3%

[cinder venture]

this any good for bear?

[fallen robin]

There are a lot of open world and zone buffs that could affect it, which zone are you testing your open world stats in and what form are you in?

[slate spear]

no

[fallen robin]

It's a shield trinket. They're all pretty similar. If you like to have one, it's good. It doesn't do a lot of damage.

[lucid arrow]

they're really not similar

[long barn]

For m+ which combo of trinkets do you guys like if you had mythic puzzle, heart of the wind and solar?

[lucid arrow]

shield trinkets are absolute ass other than dreadscale

[shut jasper]

dreadscale does fairly respectable damage which is a big plus

still worse than most non shield options in that regard but not atrociously so

[fallen robin]

There are tradeoffs there. Yes, dreadscale is the best shield value per press. It also has no main stat, which makes it worse defensively/offensively outside of the shield. There are also occasionally mechanics where a raw shield is better than an absorb.

If you want/need a controllable shield or like to have a shield on a stick, just grab one and use it. The value difference is not going to be huge. Just don't expect them to also do good damage.

Because whatever damage you get on dreadscale over globule is probably made up in the overalls by virtue of globule having Agi on it.

[lucid arrow]

dreadscale does pretty good dmg, and there's some whose shield is just... really bad

like jelly or egg

extremely low shield values and no dmg

[forest flume]

my ppal has jelly and it is absolutely dogshit lol

[fallen robin]

Okay but those aren't active shields?

Those are passive effects

[shut jasper]

oh how I miss the tww s1 shield trinket

[lucid arrow]

ampoule is active and really bad

[shut jasper]

good passive effect, good active effect, passable st damage

[fallen robin]

Ampoule isn't a shield at all

[lucid arrow]

oh i thought it was a shield its a heal

anw dread is like

60%? more shield

than globule for example

[forest flume]

that one was awesome for bear because our mastery amped it by a ton lol

[shut jasper]

ampoule is a heal over the time iirc

[lucid arrow]

and a huge use of dreadscale isn't just a shield or dmg

[shut jasper]

and we stacked haste which also scaled it

[lucid arrow]

it's extra aggro grab

it's kinda invaluable

[shut jasper]

dreadscale for snap aggro pre thrash buff was massive

[fallen robin]

Main stat value is still good. And we're post-thrash buff.

A trinket saying Agi instead of X Secondary Stat has value.

[shut jasper]

yeah, though do keep in mind even with the missing main stat dreadscale outsims basically every defensive trinket

the damage portion is decent

[fallen robin]

This is assuming you use it on CD for damage. Which is a waste of a use.

[olive hare]

decent is an understatement, its seriously overtuned.

[shut jasper]

hell it outsimmed some pure stat trinkets last I checked

and by some I mean most

[fallen robin]

If you're taking a shield trinket for damage, you could take a better option. Since I assume this is for AoE and not ST.

Just take a damage or better stat stick.

[olive hare]

yeah in st it beats both heart+solar prism @equal ilvl for me by 0,7%. And in AoE its a fair 1.8% loss, still way less than to be expected from a defensive trinekt

[lucid arrow]

it's both for dmg and shield, you don't have to pick

the packs where it deals its highest dmg and shield is where you need the shield anyway

[fallen robin]

I guess I don't see how it changes the situation. If you like/want to have a shield, pick one. Unless you keep it macroed you're not going to use the active on CD so it's always going to oversim. If you do keep it macroed you will undoubtedly use it at suboptimal points for damage.

[noble ledge]

The NPC near lindormi sells this

what is it?

[fallen robin]

Champ cache you can mail

Or use with alts

[lucid arrow]

i mean even if all you care about is a shield its still a bigger shield

[fallen robin]

But again we run into the factor of how much additional value Agi gives to almost every button we press

From UF shield to IF

[forest flume]

Can we get another thrash nerf please and thank you

[ember parrot]

what buffs should i actually track?

[noble ledge]

Can it drop the trinkets too?

[lucid arrow]

i dont feel like incoming dmg is smooth enough for it to matter as much as a huge on demand shield

[lethal elbow]

with nopex what does rotation look like in incarn? Thrash every other pretty much with MF?

[lucid arrow]

thrash mf until thrash is up

[lethal elbow]

ty

[lucid arrow]

and beam on cd

[lethal elbow]

wasn't sure if so many thrash is worth it

[lucid arrow]

thrash always worth it

[lethal elbow]

cool ta

[lucid arrow]

mouse wheel up mouse wheel down bound to thrash

[fallen robin]

How much shield do each of these trinkets give per press at comparable ilvl in both ST and AoE? Before Mastery.

Dreadscale is 140k/350k absorb
Globule is 220k
Ultradon is 450k
Igniter is 205k absorb
Manaheart is 185k absorb

[ember parrot]

what are the benefits to no apex?

[lucid arrow]

ye but dreadscale is the one with the most dmg by far, while also having the 2nd biggest shield

[fallen robin]

You could get up to 25% more shields out of Igniter/Manaheart due to 90s CD too. I'm sure there is some mechanic this season that is negated by taking no damage from it so raw shield has some value over absorb.

Is it the best at comparable ilvl, yes it typically is. If you want a shield purely for shield value are you losing a great deal, not necessarily.

[lucid arrow]

theoretically but you're not sending it on cd just for the biggest shield amount at the end of the run

it's just got too much going for it, dmg, shield, snap aggro

[meager snow]

hey guys, i'm looking to craft a 285 weapon.
what embelishments should i use, haste/vers are the stats to go for crafted weapon right

[lucid arrow]

no rerolls for myth?

[half surge]

hunt

but i would recommend go get mythic

weap

[fallen robin]

If you're not sending it on CD for shield you're also not sending it for damage and the damage profile now looks different compared to an Agi trinket with no damage. So sim comparison is less useful.

[lucid arrow]

you're sending it on pull for the dmg and shield, but it's not Iike you have a new pull every 1m30s compared to 2m

shield and dmg are useful when you're using them to burn down / survive packs

getting an extra shield when there's nothing to kill you isn't very useful especially as a bear

same with passive agi dmg vs dreadscale use, better to burst a pack faster

[golden vigil]

I'm finally at a key level for my gear where things hurt me. How are you supposed to deal with those chakram mobs in Skyreach? I tried to do a double pull after the first boss like I was doing in 10s, taking the 3 pack into the solar construct pack, and I got absolutely FLATTENED. I died twice in that key and both times, that was the mob to blame

[fallen robin]

Kite. Reset your bleed stacks early and often. Use your group to stun the mobs and backpedal a lot.

[golden vigil]

Also just generally speaking, have any tank content creators put out a video that's along the lines of "Every mob that will kill you in Season 1 and how to deal with it" type thing? I know such a thing exists for healers, and those are always my survival guide early in the season as mainspec resto

[noble ledge]

I think Tactyks has video like that

[half surge]

taktyks

[unkempt adder]

is midnight falls lura does it do magic damage

i havent seen people press alot of iron fur

i am gonna be a back up tank for my guild tonight does anyone have any tips

[half surge]

cuz ppl go for damage and logs

try to keep 1 IF

u are not going for world 1

[unkempt adder]

[half surge]

so.. no point to play aggressive

[golden vigil]

Ohhhh they do a stacking thing. That explains it. After I died, I was kiting that pull a lot without even thinking about it and I was taking a lot less damage, so backpedaling+dodge chance was probably doing a lot to keep me safe

[unkempt adder]

i dont wanna lose agro ; ) cuz my other tank is gaping me on dps

[fallen robin]

I think the method tank guides have some alerts if you like to read.

[unkempt adder]

[inland thorn]

Hey guys, I’ve been a Balance main for a long time, but my guild needs me to swap to Guardian Druid. How hard is it to adapt to raid encounters as Guardian? Any advice for making the transition easier?

[half surge]

well... as a tank i would recommend u start with getting used to dungeon mobs, watch guides/povs

look into what other tanks pull

how they pull

what can possibly kill u/group

[half surge]

its not about being guardian, its about being tank

tanks job in raid is completely different...

getting used to rotation is easy, for first few bosses u can use noapex m+ build and be fine

to learn the tanking

[golden vigil]

I'm a healer main, so things that can kill the group I have a good handle on, and I have the dungeon experience to know what "normal" pulls are. When I'm playing with a capable tank, it's hard to know when they're in danger, so a lot of what can hurt the tank I'm having to find out by doing.

[golden vigil]

I'm doing this next time I have to flex in raid. I was having such a hard time doing decent damage last night. The ST build feels way harder to do damage on

[half surge]

i mean.. yeah kinda, but looking into tank guide like tactyks or kira

they can explain some pulls

but generally speaking... skyreach has the worst tanking mobs for bear

and nexus point maybe

MS is a joke tbh

MT is... mid not hard not easy

WS is a joke for tank (only 1 scary mob in dungeon)

AA as bear is a joke

[fallen robin]

First pull AA.

[golden vigil]

Yeah this is why I was asking if someone had made that kind of video. I assumed Tactyks or Kira had but I wasn't sure

[fallen robin]

Axes chunk too but they chunk everyone

[half surge]

seat... seat can hurt without ironfur

saron is by far easiest dungeon for the season yet theres few busters for tank to look out

but nothing fancy there

[inland thorn]

I already have exp with guardian but only in M+ ,

[half surge]

again.. doesnt matter the guardian stuff, tanking the raid is what matters

u need to know boss mechanics

etc

[golden vigil]

I've watched tanks fall over to that pull in my weekly 10s all season. I didn't even sweat that pull when I did it on a 10 last night. I feel like I had to have gotten lucky or something, b/c I didn't feel like I did anything special

[half surge]

nothing to do with luck

bear is just made for that pull

(after brew im saying that)

[olive hare]

First pull AA is 20% you not fucking the assembly up and 80% your dps mates not fucking you up.

[golden vigil]

Like even yesterday I watched a Paladin fall over on that pull when I had 5 HoTs on him and an Ironbark

[fallen robin]

It's gotten easier as the ilvl goes up but knowing how/when to reset bleeds is still important as your key level goes up and the bleeds happen longer.

[inland thorn]

Is there a source i can learn the mechanics as tank? How to move the boss and all of that?

[half surge]

liquid guides, YT guides from randoms, i believe archon has a guide for bosses idk tbh, method guides

and then after u know the principals... practice

go fail over and over

to see what u do wrong

cuz what i can say from my experience - ppl in raid dont give a damn fuck about other roles

they focus on doing their own

so ucannot learn to tank while being a dps

annnnd.. vise versa

[lucid arrow]

what difficulty are you raiding on?

[golden vigil]

How do people track relevant tank debuffs in their UI? i.e. things like the AA Bleeds/Skyreach etc.? I don't see them on my party frames

[half surge]

bigwigs has the private tank auras

u can adjust anchors

ahh

[lucid arrow]

if you're not doing mythic raiding the tank mechanics on heroic are extremely easy

[half surge]

wait its not related

to m+

[half surge]

yeah but still it stands, u should do the role u aim to get better at, tank to learn tanking

etc'

[lucid arrow]

ye just saying if he's not in mythic he can prolly go rawdog it tbh a lot of the tank "mechanics" are absorbable rn

[half surge]

anything can be tracked on blizz UI, if u use other party frames then idk what to recommend

[half surge]

true

but lets be real

no1 in heroic raiding would ask him to train tank

he defo should be in mythic raiding guild

[golden vigil]

I strongly agree with this. I flexed for the first time this season last night, and holy shit I was not as ready as I thought I was. Being good at M+ I feel like is pretty transferrable between roles, but raid all 3 roles are SO different

[lucid arrow]

u never know

but ya i assume he's mythic

[half surge]

i just assiming that its pointless... at all

[golden vigil]

Like DPS is my worst/least experienced role by a lot, but I can still roll up to a vault key as Boomie and not completely embarass myself. In raid? Absolutely not

[half surge]

heroic is faceroll rn with 283+ilvls

[lucid arrow]

ye

[half surge]

but yeah.. best way to learn tanking - watch a guide for particular boss to have an idea whats going on and then do a practice

[lucid arrow]

and mythic first 2 are also easy but after that you need to watch the guides and then go try some pulls

[half surge]

i meannn... still 1st boss in spire can be tricky

[lucid arrow]

i found it easy to first time on mythic personally

him and vorasius

[golden vigil]

Imperator is an easy boss, but god it's annoying and I HATE it

[lucid arrow]

extremely similar to the hc one as far as tanking goes

[half surge]

me too but... im not the raid carry

i cannot solo kill boss

and other 18 ppl in raid not as smart as me

[lucid arrow]

i mean yeah I'm just saying in regards to what you have to know

[half surge]

they needed some tries

to get to kill

[lucid arrow]

like if you go saladbar in mythic without ever having done it even if all the other players know what to do

tank can wipe it with no practice

first 2 not so much if you did it in heroic

[golden vigil]

I thought my raid was gonna kill me on Imperator, b/c I was like a fish out of water. Other bosses went much smoother

[half surge]

salhadar is great boss

imo

[lucid arrow]

salad took me a few practice runs to get the kiting right

[half surge]

intermission is what we had the worst

ppl kept dying huh

took us.. idk... like 2 days to kill it

[golden vigil]

In the last few days, since my tank arc has gone well-ish, I really hope I get to try tanking some Mythic bosses before season's end. I've been contemplating a role swap for S2

[half surge]

then another 3-4 days (i count raid days in multiple weeks) we killed dragons

then it took us 4 days to kill palas

last week

[half surge]

if u wanna do tank as main role.. get ur nerves ready...

and... yor ass

tanking is easy compared to dps/heal but.. all the shit u have to keep in mind

all the stuff... man it can burn u out rly quick

[golden vigil]

I'm a healer in WoW and a Jungler in League. Everything is already always my fault. Can't get much worse

[half surge]

as one wise man said - if tank dies then healers fault, healers death = tanks fault, dps death = dps fault

(not applied to BDK tho.. bdk dead = bdk bad)

all u can do for bdk is give them an external like bark

nothing else u can do

[golden vigil]

I've been curious to try BDK for a long time, in part b/c I love having them in my key as a healer

[half surge]

dont... just dont

trust me..

dont...

[golden vigil]

But I think I would miss being mobile

[half surge]

the cardiography u gonna see gonna make ur heart rise

just dont...

only time u can try bdk if hes crazy op

[zenith bronze]

BDK is so much fun, highly recommended

They're slow but you can't kill em if they're good

[half surge]

exact word here - GOOD

1-2 mistakes in rotation = dead

[zenith bronze]

Isn't that the case with every class?

[half surge]

internet lag? dead

[half surge]

bear not rly, brew not rly

ppala not.. sometimes yes

pwar never

vdh? maybe yeah too

[zenith bronze]

I mean maybe if you're trying to time high level keys but outside of that it's fine

Anyways try BDK if you want to, it's fun and if you don't like you don't have to keep playing

[half surge]

i played 1 season as bdk back in df

i had enough personally

[zenith bronze]

Maybe it just isn't for you?

[half surge]

i wont stop any1 from playing it, its good but... my nerves are not worth

[half surge]

yes... not for me.. waaay too stressful

being on the edge of death 99% of the time

[zenith bronze]

The healthbar isn't your healthbar

It's your runic power that's your health bar

My two mains are a druid and a death knight. So

Idk I'm biased

[half surge]

my main tank is ppala

i love pala

but sadly hes not as good

2nd is druid

if i would choose 3rd... it would be 50/50 vdh/pwar

[zenith bronze]

I've been thoroughly enjoying leveling with my laser bear

I thought I was gonna stick with balance for this character but guardian called my name and I answered it

[half surge]

monk is one of my least favored

[zenith bronze]

I've never played a monk beyond like. 20 minutes

[half surge]

but this season he became more easy to learn/master

[chilly tree]

for guardian druid what i put in for simming

[golden vigil]

If DotC was meta in keys, I'd be having way less fun. I like DotC in raid fine, but the one time I tried to play it in M+, I HATED it. My guild's resident Bear main refuses to play EC, b/c they like the DotC fantasy and was doing it all last expack when it was way worse comparatively and I just don't know how they could stand it

[lucid arrow]

i was ppala and rerolled bear

had enough of the yoyo hp

[cloud pebble]

Hey guys, could please give me some advice on how to get past +15? Are there any groups or Discord channels where I can find a party? I’ve been trying to get past +15 with the Pugs for three days now and haven’t managed it.

[half surge]

before removal of block ppala was goat

[golden vigil]

Raid dps question: When off-tanking, are you frequently going Cat and applying Rake+Rip, or is that only something you do when you press HotW?

[outer cave]

If ur not doing meld skips what is the best race for bear? Kul tirian?

[half surge]

anything... i had tauren

so i used it

if only dwarfs could be druids

[outer cave]

Im asking what's best available now

[half surge]

literally anything works

the difference is so minor

[lucid arrow]

dwarf druid

[zenith bronze]

The best race is the race you already have a character on

[half surge]

da powah of beer

[lucid arrow]

i think its tauren

[half surge]

BEER IS GOOD, BEER IS POWAH

[lucid arrow]

if not nelf

stamina crit

stun

[inland thorn]

tyvm

[lucid arrow]

and gathering bis for your flasks

[half surge]

drinking off the beer well made dwarfs attune the spirit of beer and made them beer druids

[inland thorn]

for my luck i have to learn beloren and lura

i will go insane

[lucid arrow]

they nerfed lura so should be a tad easier

or are about to not sure

[half surge]

stay sane baer

[outer cave]

Stun shares cd dr with all the other stuns? Also KT has vers which is inheritantly less damage taken taken but dunno if thays better numbers wise than tauren

[sterile verge]

Tauren has a 5 mob stun. Nice in M+.

[lucid arrow]

id take the stun to interrupt shit considering the avg pugger

[golden vigil]

All of them. (Not yet, but leveling a druid of every race is a thing I've been working on)

[outer cave]

Are you actually pressing the stun in keys 17+?

[lucid arrow]

i dont have it cus im not tauren but i imagine I'd be pressing it don't see why not

im still the top interrupter in most keys 17+ and im often sending typhoon incap and kick and still need to kick smth

[half surge]

yes

i can literally be a step from "pull is over heal gonna die off cast" to "save of the day"

[zenith bronze]

Honestly unless you're in the top 1% of players, the race you pick literally doesn't matter

[lucid arrow]

tbf if he's pushing high keys top 1% isn't out of reach

[outer cave]

My pwar has 2x aoe stuns plus a single target silence and I almost never have to use hammer stun bc there arent that many things to stop

[zenith bronze]

Eh

[lucid arrow]

17s are already top 4%, 19s are well past top 1%

[lucid arrow]

you shouldn't need it if your group is interrupting well

for me its a crapshoot and i often need to interrupt shit more than i actually have buttons for

[olive hare]

Same here, still considering dropping nelf in favor of tauren/hm tauren because of that

[trim snow]

does anyone have a macro for shifting into cat and hotw

[outer cave]

Yes im doing 17s on pwar but life is hard when you do low dps so was getting druid up

[olive hare]

I mean if Dwarf Druid was a thing you obviously would pick dwarf

[forest flume]

the only reason I'd switch off of nelf is if they remove the race

threatening others with "I will meld if you keep talking" during a pull is too good to pass up

[lucid arrow]

you need to have meld

to juggle seat decimate ofc

or does that not go to tank if the other 4 meld

i had my 3 dps meld and pass it on to the healer my last 18 seat

[outer cave]

When i look at the numbers I see KT has 1% vers (less damage taken), heals for 2% of damage taken, frost and nature damage 1% dr and comparing to 2% crit and aoe stun thay DRs all enemies im thinking KT is ahead? Where am I wrong in my thinking if anywhere

[zenith bronze]

I'm never moving my druid off of nelf because she's got a fairly well established backstory and I'm writing fanfiction for her

[lucid arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/arriba-gif-12324188786972117417

[quick schooner]

Well i know simming exists but ffs, i've noticed due to rings from nexus point i can't droptimize to check what rings will suit me best. NPX has fewer items (especially in guardian loot spec its like 6 items so 3 weeks to get both rings on myth) to roll and i want to roll after either ring replacments or trinket. Dunno where to bonus roll tbh any tips/ideas how to check it properly?

[outer cave]

All the top bears are nelf. I did find an orc bear didnt know that was an option

[rustic kestrel]

the prissy night elf vs the chad Tauren

[wild bloom]

i requested about my low dps the other day in bear, i took most of the advice to play and it was very helpful, it feels better now, but i still feel im a bit lackluster, if anyone wanna help https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rLTDAY7v6kxRdGBg?fight=7&type=damage-done

[main solstice]

do we still play no apex?

single target dmg is so low

🙁

mythic +

[burnt sandal]

Way better. I think fixing your sundering roar cast will get your thrash up to a respectable CPM

[burnt sandal]

22 sundering in a 31 minute key can be improved to at least like 27-28 probably there is gonna be some amount of time waiting for bosses or just running between shit

And to compare to like top top Druids they get 13 to 13.8 thrash cast per minute you have around 11.7 Personally I float around 12.4 to 13 but I play with a relatively mid ping due to the homies being west coast

But idk don’t hyper focus on it. Sometimes in a particularly rough key you just tilt and start playing like shit. I have a pit 20 where I parsed like a fucking 16 because I was hyper stressed about decursing cuz we had early deaths to bad RNG and I decided I needed to be Jesus

Also not running HOTW feral frenzy is a personal choice. But it is great damage

[still locust]

You don't have to, we have 6 viable m+ builds atm

[burnt sandal]

I see now that you talented it. Just forgot to use it at all I guess actually

[brazen helm]

where can i see all 6?

[still locust]

https://www.dreamgrove.gg/blog/guardian/compendium#mythic-talents

The middle section has a lot of talents you can swap around based on dungeon or preference

For all the builds

[brazen helm]

you are the goat, ty <3

[violet holly]

DotC no raze go brrrr

[burnt sandal]

Dotc no raze is also just like objectively better for things like seat and MC. But that conversation leads to fights.

[calm vapor]

Anyone extended crown myth and cant charge the umbral core before you go to the platform?

[quick schooner]

What rings should we bonus roll for?

[calm vapor]

sim it

[quick schooner]

Can't droptimize npx rings tho

[trim plaza]

what u mean

[quick schooner]

Oh nevermind im fucking stupid lmfao, apologies i had voidforged 298 option set lmfao

[subtle cypress]

whats our raid talents now with noapex being meta?

[violet holly]

I think npx simmed the highest for me, did a sim early morning with crafted ring and other myth rings and the combo simmed best

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iMZ2TefKf5CbUrJHysYZaV

[half surge]

EC raze

i mean the default rage builder-spender build

with moonless night

[subtle cypress]

whats an EC

[half surge]

elunes chosen

[zenith bronze]

Best hero spec

[subtle cypress]

with red moon?

Wowhead talents are DOTC with apex

[trim plaza]

u can play both, both are good

elunes chosen or DotC apex

[subtle cypress]

ok I'll just play my m+ build 😄

[half surge]

u can yes

but if u want the most damage EC build from the pins are good

[violet holly]

there's a build in the pins, you can grab that and is fine

[trim plaza]

ye and kele just linked link to dreamgrove ,there is alot of different build variations

[wild bloom]

i have 100ms it does feel a bit

im playing on EU serv from NA

[spice nebula]

DOTC is more fun. Yeah?

[burnt sandal]

DOTC is fun if you like reacting to procs or being able to utilize shapeshifting a little more freely than EC

EC is fun if you like reserving your brainwaves for everything else and spamming 2-3 buttons basically 90% of the time

I think part of the reason you see the simple nopex build in very high keys is you can focus on everything else and your chances of getting “unlucky” for lack of a better word for a misplay go down. If you are playing the raze version of EC or DOTC it’s a little easier to dump rage offensively and possibly be caught at a bad moment without IF stacks

[spare sail]

Why we pretending EC is just the no apex build?

[rustic spade]

what by

[burnt sandal]

Idk maybe cuz like 97% of the player base in high keys is playing nopex based off archon

[spare sail]

And that means?

[burnt sandal]

He asked a general question about the hero talents and what one the difference was

[olive hare]

And how do you know the question was m+ related? The last conversation was regarding raid talent builds.

[burnt sandal]

Would you prefer I speak to him about the 3% or the general game. The raid stuff was already covered

[olive hare]

To me it seems like he was listening to the conversation and wondering whats more fun to play as a raid tank. In that likely case, your answer is pointless since no-apex in raid is not a thing.

[burnt sandal]

Yaaawn

[ripe bear]

fun is entirely subjective, person A might find DotC more fun, person B EC, and person C might say they both suck and that blood DK is the most fun for raid.

[radiant wolf]

I have a myth gaze. Should i pair it with myth emberwing feather, hero light company guidon, or hero heart of the wind?

[ripe bear]

sim it

[forest flume]

for all intents and purposes, sadly, it kinda is for the vast majority of people in M+. I hate this timeline btw, I'm about to setup a daily task that spams blizzard to nerf thrash again

[oblique moat]

i wouldn't play m+ build in raid

idk how much of a difference it makes but

[spare sail]

Its still
Apex: dotc or ec
No apex ec

[olive hare]

Also on a sidenote: Simplicity does play an important role for fotm tanks yeah. These people are rerolling a lot and ofc prefer easy to digest specs so they can get into those faster and dont have to commit as much. However, with no apex EC, its not just simplicity, the build is just strictly stronger than Apex EC.

[ripe bear]

for surviving? it doesn't matter if you take your M+ build into raid, you will be able to take the hits just fine. The purpose of different raid and M+ builds is all about damage both are adequitly survivable for all raid content

[oblique moat]

yes but damage matters in raid

which is why i said what i did

[ripe bear]

to some raids tank damage really matters, to others ... not so much.

Like if you are doing mythic content, sure tank dmg matters, if you are in a AoTC guild, tank damage is most likely not even in the top 10 things you could do to improve the raid. It really depends on the context of what raiding environment they are talking about.

[forest flume]

tbh tank damage barely matters if you're not pushing for HoF (and even then), as long as you can keep agro and not die, you can get CE

[oblique moat]

ok

[ripe bear]

100% spot on

[wary hearth]

Is there any routes you prefer?

I use my own routes since the beggining, but it seems for 18+ I might need to improve them.

From what I watch once in a while my routes doesnt chnage too much from what I watched.

After a 2 weeks break from the season, I look forward to time some keys.

At least MT was overtime, I dont know if it is a route issue or dps issue.

[olive hare]

As long as you can keep aggro yeah, but honestly the gap between No-Apex single target performance and most tankspecs raidbuilds is pretty big. I wouldnt wanna risk having offtank threat issues. And I 100% wouldnt want to be that that one miserable tank who tells his offtank playing a proper dps build to stop pressing buttons.

[forest flume]

Maybe, maybe not. I've raidlead as tank in a CE guild, even doing negative damage (because staring at WA / bigwigs and depending on fight having to babysit our "special players"), agro wasn't an issue

that said I care very little about raid nowadays and have no idea whats the agro situation in this expansion's raids

Now I look like someone who's trying to say that raiding as no-apex is perfectly fine, let me re-iterate: Nerf thrash again so the build can die, tyvm

[burnt sandal]

You gotta be real far off to be losing threat to the offtank. I’ve done it as Druid when apex was at its highest point and I got lucky crits. But the tank was also basically afk at his keyboard

[jovial mauve]

whats the advantage on picking fluid form for m+ bear?

[ripe bear]

if you are catweaving with HotW it saves you globals

[burnt sandal]

Saves GCD and there is a nifty rage bug

[jovial mauve]

so just to cast mangle after HOTW and dont waste a global on bearform?

[ripe bear]

also don't waste the global on catform, you can hit rake to get some value out of it

[forest flume]

rake -> hotw -> mangle is all you need for single target, very little effort for a nice payoff

[burnt sandal]

That mangle rage going back into bear for lack of better wording sticks to your character so in M+ the next time you go bear outta combat you can have enough rage to start a pull with IF

[forest flume]

im guessing someone did the math between shred and rake, but you can do either afaik

[white sentinel]

Is there a good youtube channel to watch tanks play that would improve my ability to get intimate with keys in the 14 - 16 range. I don't think watching 20 keys applies much to me would I learn much?

[forest flume]

What keys are you running right now

[burnt sandal]

Depends on your goals. If you watch people in the 14-16 range they do wacky shit that you could never pull off in 19+ particularly for views

[forest flume]

You can do the same pulls you are doing in 10-12 up to 16 without any issues (in 99.99% cases, can't guarantee the 0.01%)

[white sentinel]

I have all 12s and working towards all 14s now. Have 3 14s done

[ripe bear]

i would honestly figure out your goal. what key level do you want to be at by the end of the season. Then find routes from people running and completing those keys, and practice/improve (if possible) them from now on. If your goal is a 20, but you are only doing 12s atm, start pulling 12s, 13s, and 14s like they are 20s. So you are ready and know the route by rote (see what i did there) by the time you get there.

[burnt sandal]

^^ that way you don’t have to relearn routes as much and you are a little more familiar of what is lethal in high keys

And by lethal 90% of the time it’s gonna be lethal to your group not you

[white sentinel]

I mean I do the weekly raider io pug friendly routes and even with those PUGs have no idea what the fuck is going on

[ripe bear]

now if you don't know your goal, or your goal is something like "as high as i can go" i would suggest starting with 20s, then slowing raising the bar once you hit that.

[white sentinel]

Had a warrior just wander off aimlessly last pug it was obscene

I plan to PUG up there so its a different vibe than if I have a set group

[burnt sandal]

This is the absolute worst in Windrunner when people just get totally lost after they die

[ripe bear]

never trust pug dps as a tank, they are dumb and will actively (if not on purpose) sabotage the key through ignorance, or non-attentiveness.

If you want to push, work towards not pugging the majority of your group. Find a good DPS/Healer? ask to add them to your friends list and make a note so you can remember them. Then when you want to do a key, start with your friends list first, then fill as needed. Eventually you'll stop needing to fill if you are a decent player and fun to run keys with.

[white sentinel]

14s isn't considered pushing yet I presume?

[hazy mural]

best advice I can give is be the babysitter and use simple routes and save time from not doing the big pull routes by chain pulling when the nasty mob is dead, use skull marker for the prio mob and hopefully 1 dps focuses it

[hazy mural]

its pushing for u

pushing is a state of mind

[burnt sandal]

Relaxado is a state of mind

[ripe bear]

that entirely depends on where you are, pushing is just moving your IO up, if you have 0 score a +2 is pushing.

[white sentinel]

Gonna get this tattooed on my lower back

[hazy mural]

pugs are very infuriating no matter what key lvl u are at atm tbf

[cinder oracle]

so i am so confused on how i am smashing my moon fire i feel like and yet i am not doing enough in the same key someone is going like 1 close to 2 hundred more moon fire and thrashes

[burnt sandal]

Yea it never stops honestly. You can invite a 3850 IO DPS and just be mind boggled how they got there

[vivid anvil]

is this chest worth keeping as is for the equip effect or should i just catalyze it (i already have 4pc from other slots)

[oblique moat]

no reason to catalyze

[vivid anvil]

Cool ty

[summer hatch]

why do so few people take perfectly honed instincts

and does dream guide trigger forestwalk?

[quick schooner]

is this chest even a consideration? or i should just ignore it? Im just m+ player but im not sure where it would be better to have that or even if its worth

[outer cave]

Do you think blizz ever envisioned that best m+ tank would be bear that ignores 4 pc and apex completely on favor or 3 button rotation?

[rough quarry]

someone using naowh ui and may help me ?

[forest flume]

The answer is often "You think you do, but you don't" - If you check your logs there might be gaps of 3-4 seconds where you're not pressing anything, specially in "stressful" moments, experienced players will keep smashing buttons versus less experienced people who are going to take a pause and look at whats going on

But without logs no one can say what's going on in your case :p

[steel cloud]

Should I still macro ironfur to my abilities

[cinder oracle]

your prob right i have this pit which is the one i was looking at https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6kYBLwz8FA1gRKac?fight=7

[outer cave]

I dont but maybe thats not right

[forest flume]

You can if you want, no one will stop you. It's not the best of ideas. If you ever try to brez someone or use an emergency frenzied regeneration and you're out of rage, you'll now know why people here keep suggesting it's not ideal

[red knoll]

Cuz its a pretty bad talent.

You get so much use out of literally any other talent

[summer hatch]

why bad tho

like what else ru taking?

there’s not much down there

[forest flume]

maybe someone will be able to look a bit deeper, on phone atm its hard to see timelines lol. I would look for parts where you took damage and see if there were gaps / empty gcds for abilities. I may be completely wrong too and it could be that others are routing better and spending less time without attacking mobs as well.

[novel fern]

for pushing +21, would u guys drink vers flask now? this is with haste flask

I have the 2 windspire trinkets

[fallen robin]

Whatever the sim says.

[novel fern]

vers flask is only -0.3% dps on 5 targets so I guess it is worth the sidegrade for more defensive value?

ah shit I had it on 40s duration

[fallen robin]

Probably not even much more defensive value. Try it and see.

[red knoll]

Matted fur, increased healing, increased range, forest walk, 1min stamp roar

All much better than -30 seconds on a 2 min ability that really shouldn't trigger that often

[novel fern]

academy and skyreach made me think it could have good value but then I just started kiting more and surviving is chill

battleaxes and adepts

[red knoll]

Yeah ur not meant to face tank battle axes

Or adepts

Dps need to fucking calm down not every pack is gunna plant

Get yelled at every time I kite 5 ft

[novel fern]

heh yep it's nice that frost mage is not meta now and I try to play with a surv hunt for BL instead of ele shaman

me and my friends hate pug augs, they often do ass damage and the run just goes super slow

I should try more enhancement shamans though, they should have funnel damage or something

[desert pecan]

Got a key abandoned bc dps lock standing in piss puddle and blaming me

[red knoll]

You should look at logs before saying augs are doing bad damage

Lol

Details does not show their damage

[proven hound]

might be stupid question but I feel wayyyy more in danger turning my back with a druid than with a monk any reason for this?

[desert pecan]

Monk has stagger

We don’t

[red knoll]

You shouldn't be taking back shots on any tank

Who keeps spreading these rumors that bears can tank back shots with no worries lol

[desert pecan]

Mf I get hit for 500k every time I turn my back

[red knoll]

Swear we get people like this every day coming in

[desert pecan]

Backshots no good

Also got flamed by a healer

Bc dps would not focus the witch in wrs

And she full casted in a 15

“Tank wtf are you doing”

I’m just go balance tbh, there’s no way dps are this dumb

Also people still trickle in during a wipe, then they flame again “bro rez and run back the mobs are coming up the ramp”

[still locust]

You shouldn't but it's also not a death sentence on bear

Dodge is neat, but it's like... a tertiary layer of our defensiveness

[red knoll]

Yeah

But like

Still very bad practice

[still locust]

For sure

[red knoll]

Especially if you tank on anything else

[still locust]

But I've also seen some people say that you will instantly collapse and your grandmother will get a stroke if you get hit from the back

[red knoll]

Well no you wont if you take a few

But you will if you just w pull and take a bunch

[novel fern]

when I look at streamers pov they're pretty close to tank damage on details but the puggers do half of my damage and then grey parse in logs every damn time

[red knoll]

Comparing any class to things people upload to YouTube is pretty pepega. But they should be roughly 10-20% below you in a good group, but their damahe also scales enormously with what classes theyre buffing and how good the dps theyre playing with are

[novel fern]

not YouTube but twitch and I was hoping the DPS I play with are not that bad. I need to work on chainpulling more though that's for sure

I'd give them a chance more often but my healer friend hates them so we only take them to skyreach currently

when we play with 3 normal dps that each have a different damage profile it feels the nicest though, every pack dies in a reasonable time

[odd cave]

aug also requires other players to press their buttons

[livid nexus]

Hi, is there regrowth macro that blocks shiting out of bear form if regrowth is casted without proc? I can't find it anywhere...

[red knoll]

This functionality was removed in dragonflight

[mint nacelle]

Which hero talent are most people playing for M+

[red knoll]

Ec apexless

Unfort

[violet holly]

DotC no raze

[lucid lintel]

Where do you guys see a patch note list of the changes that happen weekly/bi-weekly? like stat changes for classes and whatnot

[mortal perch]

wowhead

blizzard blue tracker

https://www.bluetracker.gg/

there are multiple sources

[lucid lintel]

I've searched that up so many places

i couldnt find it

lmao

I wanted to look into it because the last thing i heard was that guardian druid are in the gutters, when it comes to strength,and i just saw a video of a guy 2 days ago who said that guardian druid were super strong

[mortal perch]

yes tank balance changed drastically in the past couple of weeks

[brazen tinsel]

Guardian druid is considered to be the best m+ tank rn

[rustic kestrel]

Guardian druid was probably the 2nd best tank even before the changes

I cant imagine anyone with a single neuron saying it was in the gutters

[halcyon nova]

do yall know how the DR from these stack? i cant imagine its a flat 27%

[lucid lintel]

I've just seen nerf and nerf and nerf and i feel really weak

[quaint pond]

damage reduction from different sources stack multiplicatively

[mint nacelle]

Anyone have a good player profile that shows aggro and such

[halcyon nova]

ty, trying to see if i can get away with dropping this talent since i dont press maul

[halcyon nova]

my nameplates show me if i am losing or have lost threat if thats what you're talking about

[brazen tinsel]

You can if you don't press it at all, yes

[halcyon nova]

thats why i was asking about the moonfire talent, but i would also have to drop that if i dropped vulnerable flesh

[frozen swallow]

Question, I made this macro to make HOTW simple to use. Is there any drawback to using it or all fine?

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=5 Rake, Heart of the Wild, Mangle, Ironfur, Ironfur, Ironfur

[halcyon nova]

HOTW is off the GCD, so you can macro it and mangle to cast at the same time, it'll press HOTW in cat form and mangle you back into bear

[brazen tinsel]

I wouldn't recommend dropping it

Have to sacrifice that 1 point

[halcyon nova]

yeah im not getting much from dropping it

[brazen tinsel]

You'd have to path through memory of ysera to even get to LB then

Definitely not worth it

Oh actually you wouldn't have to nvm

For UE you'd have to I guess

[halcyon nova]

#showtooltip
/cast Heart of the Wild
/cast Mangle

this is what i use for my HOTW

[brazen tinsel]

I don't see where you could use those points instead

[halcyon nova]

shift into cat, and press that button, ez

[halcyon nova]

i would be forced to grab an extra point in the 1st tier and then 2 in memory to get to Ued

def not worth lol

[frozen swallow]

you don't use fluid form? What do you pick up for keys instead, forestwalk or Perfectly honed?

[halcyon nova]

you can get in and out of cat form just as fast without FF, you just lose a little dps from the rake. i usually take forest walk ant innervate

but i like being able to give my healer free mana lol

that feels like bear has a lot of freedom with our last 1-2 points

[frozen swallow]

ok cool, didn't realise it was off gcd, ty for that!

[halcyon nova]

yeah brings it down to like 2 GCD that way

you can also replace the mangle cast with a shift bearform cast to get back into bear without FF

esp since i dont press mangle in keys lol

[oblique moat]

[red knoll]

You should still press mangle in keys

Me when I just dont press my best st rage generator because im memeing and refuse to press more than 2 buttons

[latent oracle]

if my bear pugs dont press mangle i am putting them on ignore at the end of the dungeon and never playing with them again

[olive hare]

Imagine people loosing their shit over a 2-3% st gain on a good day (IF you play sotf and hit both mangle and maul). Pointing towards the optimal play is okay, acting like its meme to not do so is not. If people dont need the small prio gain to clear 23s, I guess dropping it for the sake of simplicity is acceptable.

[lean bough]

How often if at all do you use swipe? I dont even have it on my hotbar. Am i a bad tank?

[olive hare]

Depends a little on your build. As no apex you can absolutely remove it from your bars, you'll alwalys moonfire over it. For Apex EC there are some niche situations where using it is better than using moonfire (fishing for gore procs in multitarget). And for apex dotc you'll always swipe over moonfire as a filler.

[oblique moat]

the argument i keep seeing here is rage gen

[novel fern]

I keep swipe on my bars because sometimes I want to aggro the freshly spawned mobs instead of letting them kill the group like in magister, windrunner and nexus

[olive hare]

Well you use that rage on maul, since you dont need extra furs on bosses. That maul is what turns the rage gains from mangle into a small dps increase over just moonfiring. Mangle itself is a dps loss for no-apex, always.

[trim plaza]

Ye mangle helps with st rage if u want press maul, if ur gonna dump rage only into IF even in bosses, its not neccessary with no apex, with apex builds u 100% use mangle

[stiff phoenix]

@grand plinth are you streaming these keys?

[grand plinth]

Bondd is right now

I am not yet

I need to start tho

[stiff phoenix]

gangster

yeah im watching bond rn

[stiff phoenix]

you've got fans in bonds chat time to start 😛

[fossil burrow]

How do y'all use puzzle box efficiently? I am already using emberwing with incarn so it feels awkward 20 seconds into the pull to start channeling it and loosing valuable incarn use.

[copper hornet]

do people actually play double on use

[fallen robin]

Would alternate with pulls then. Definitely use PBox first for damage, then Emberwing for the next LB cast (if ready).

But it's usually less efficient to do double on-use.

[fossil burrow]

i havent gotten any Heart of the wind mythic drop yet -_- and no gaze either. but yeah i could have sworn icyveins said before to use both before they reworked the site at least. which is what i found odd

my sim actually stated that emberwing + heart of the wind was actually a 1% damage increase over puzzle so might replace puzzle mainly cus i loathe the channel time..

mage font of power ptsd intensifies

[trim plaza]

My best sim was myth feather+puzzle, but no shot i use 2x on use trinkets

[fossil burrow]

if it wasnt for the channel time i actually dont have that much of a problem with double use due to the long window of incarn, but the channel? shivers

[quick schooner]

Well im running 5 myth set pieces rn, it wont sim "defensively" but is this chest very niche or can help me on some higher keys?

[tall basin]

for nopex you only need 2 pieces by the way.
idk where you get shadow dmg atm - but i think it's not that often^^

[olive compass]

every dungeon except skyreach and another one that i cant remember rn

its a decent proc in keys

[quick schooner]

Oh only 2? I was simming myself and aoe sims told me to catalyze everything so i've ended up like this

[daring nymph]

i mean

you should still shoot for 4pc

idk why we're telling people that they only need 2pc

[tall basin]

ye you only get a benefit for +10% moonfire dmg.
on 4p you don't use raze/maul or ravage. so you don't get the extra dmg from it and only go for stats after the 2p in the noapex build

[daring nymph]

stats doesnt really matter unle;ss yoru really at the top tip of keys

i would still have 4pc because its good to have the 4pc

especially for boss damage

and raids

as for your question

that chest is ver yvery very very niche

but if you have it, might as well use it

[tall basin]

for raid yes

and apex talents

[daring nymph]

for everything

[tall basin]

but for m+ if you play the noapex talent you don't need 4p

[daring nymph]

the only build you dont use tier 4pc is the meme 2 button build

playing any normal ec build

youd still maul on st

key boss damage is also important

[tall basin]

????

[daring nymph]

?

[tall basin]

2 button meme build? you mean the standard no apex build for m+?

that litterly everyone plays atm?

[daring nymph]

not everyone

but okay

[quick schooner]

Im done with raids for this season cause i've got all items i wanted so from now on its just key gaming. Im divided between like avo set from seat or npx rings for dps. Rolled yesterday and got the 5th myth set piece (hands) and cloak which i had so 4 more bonus rolls to secure i will have both npx rings at myth. Missing 3 myth items to have full craft + myth items currently and im mentally preparing myself to tank keys over +17 Can craft 1 more item rn and change 1 set piece for offset.

[daring nymph]

i mean again, you can run the chest and thats fine

you can run noapex and thats f ine

i just dont see a reason to trade in 4pc for stats that ultimately wont effect you

especially in the 17 key range

[quick schooner]

Yeye, im running noapex build anyways

[daring nymph]

also congrats tbh

big ilvl, big bear

remember to press mangle for prio and st

for more rage generation for more incarn

[tall basin]

pls not

[daring nymph]

please yes

cause more rage means more incarn means more defensive

there is no reason not to press mangle

[quick schooner]

Thanks ❤️ its 1st wow season in like a decade that im not switching alts each month lmfao

[lethal elbow]

It's there a discussion anyone can point me to about the moonkin hotw usage?

Feels really good on Pit and AA first runs but I see lots of high ranked druids not taking it, is it not as good as it seems?

[daring nymph]

keep at it fren

[latent oracle]

thank u rem

[daring nymph]

thats fine you can play whatever you like. its all viable. if your staying bear tho, it would be good for you to leanr how to play every build just to have a hang in it

[daring nymph]

no, ty lakers

[tall basin]

the reason for no pressing mangle is:
if you use trash or moonfire (which deals more dmg then mangle by the way) it reduce the cd of your beam and mangle not.
sure mangle gives more rage and you maybe can get faster inc. but so you say alllllll the high keys are trolls atm?
for example this is andys MC 24 by the way. he pressed 10 times mangle. why did he pressed mangle 10 times? because he uses fluid form.

[quick schooner]

Was raiding in dotc, played some keys in it too but it was before thrash changes, after this i've decided that im stressing enough on higher keys that i'd rather stay on stress free build tbh

[daring nymph]

okay theres context to this

first

its the easiest season in the games history so your able to get away with alot of shit that would be illegal in any other season

[quick schooner]

Im just braindead and still after all this time from season start im pressing a lot of mangles and mauls and apparently too much swipes

[daring nymph]

its still good to press mangle for more rage for more incarn

your shilling beam while ignoring incarn

we exist to help players get better at the spec. not help them stagnant

[daring nymph]

thats fine tbh

not gonna argue that

[quick schooner]

I just need to rebind cause my problems in keys were... not casting gg procs every consistently so i was stalling on beam cd red

[daring nymph]

im just saying, weave in some mangles in prio target situations and for boss damage

it'll be good for your overal flow

[quick schooner]

Yeah, i've got a tip to focus more on thrashes and gg procs but im still trying to cast some mangles, didnt unbind it but im trying to focus to not click it with gg procs

[daring nymph]

since you wanna cherry pick logs

heres gnomerenders 241 casts of mangle

aa 22

[quick schooner]

ye ye, im casting mangles on bosses for sure, my biggest flaw is casting swipes and sleeping on lunar beams in big packs

But i got courage and my first +17 was AA so now i wont stress this much about playing

[trim plaza]

Ye GG procs are prio in aoe, gives rage and cdr for LB, but some mangles good also especially st where ur rage gen isnt as strong as in aoe

[daring nymph]

nah i getcha

sometimes its hard to get out of bad habits tbh

i sometimes just linger of 2 charges of facture sometimes and thats giga bad for vdh

[quick schooner]

My keys looks ridicoulous, i was so fckin scared about Aa pull but i divided it for 2 lasher then 1 and it went so smoothly that the thing i was scared the most (other then maisara cause i dont like it) was my 1st 17 xd

[daring nymph]

just in case you'll say "this isnt the right dungeon" heres a 22 mc with 500+ mangles

due to dotc